1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: This episode contains graphic depictions of violence that listeners may 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: find disturbing. Listener discretion is advised. January thirty one, two 3 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: thousand and eight, nearly two hundred days after Snay had disappeared, 4 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: her mom on suit gets an email. She opens it, 5 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: reads it, her stomach starts to hurt. Her daughter is 6 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: a nine eleven hero. Finally, in a four to one decision, 7 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: the New York State Supreme Courts Appellate Division rules that 8 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: Snayhow died at the World Trade Center. The court overturns 9 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: an earlier decision by Judge Rene Roth, who said the 10 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: theory that Snayhow died at the Trade Center was quote 11 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: rank speculation with absolutely no foundation in the record. This 12 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: court disagrees quote only the rankest speculation leads to any 13 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: conclusion other than nine eleven. So this is how it 14 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: ends in court, at least, dueling judges a battle of 15 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: the speculations, rank speculation that saying How died at the 16 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: Trade Center versus rank kissed speculation that any other explanation 17 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 1: makes sense. Maybe this seems like semantics, but really it's 18 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: the heart of the show, the heart of this case, 19 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: because in the absence of evidence, every single explanation, including 20 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: nine eleven, requires speculation. No speculation, no closure, no answers 21 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: at all. In a dissenting opinion, Justice Bernard J. Malone wrote, quote, 22 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: since it is not known where the decedent spent the 23 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: night of September, it requires speculation to say that her 24 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: route home took her across or dangerously near the World 25 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: Trade Center grounds, or that when the attacks began she 26 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: was even in the vicinity of the World Trade Center. 27 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: And it is equally probable, in light of evidence concerning 28 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: her professional and personal problems, that the decedent died on 29 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: or about September eleven one by some other unfortunate fate. 30 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: From my Heart Radio, this is missing on nine eleven, 31 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: the story of one woman who vanished on the eve 32 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: of history and my quest to find her. I'm your host, 33 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 1: John Wallzac. I understand that nine eleven makes intuitive sense. 34 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: A comes razor, right, but take emotion out of this case, 35 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:59,119 Speaker 1: take away the desire to manufacture a hero. Does nine 36 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: eleven really makes sense? I'd say no, or at the 37 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: very least, it's not an instant, irrefutable answer. Look at 38 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: the facts. Fact snay has DNA was never recovered. Fact 39 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: of civilians at the Trade Center below the impact zones escaped. Fact. 40 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: Debris killed very few people before the towers fell. Fact, 41 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: there were hundreds of cops, firefighters, and paramedics on site quickly, 42 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: within minutes. Snay Ha wasn't needed even if she wanted 43 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: to help. Thousands of people with minor injuries flowed out 44 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: of the towers into nearby triage areas where she could 45 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: have volunteered, where she likely would have been directed by 46 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: firefighters and paramedics. Fact. No eyewitnesses saw a petite, beautiful 47 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: woman in a brown dress and sandals running into the towers. 48 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: Fact no photographs or videos show SNA on nine eleven 49 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: at or near the Trade Center. So let's dig deeper, 50 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: piece by piece. First, d n A. There are two thousand, 51 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: seven hundred and fifty three Trade Center victims have been identified, 52 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: mostly by DNA, but also via dental X rays, fingerprints, photos, 53 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: personal effects, tattoos, etcetera. For twenty years, the New York 54 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: City Office of Chief Medical Examiner or o CME has 55 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: led a herculean effort to identify victims. That effort continues today. 56 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: Earlier this year, I sat down in Tribeca with Mark 57 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: desire the O c m S Assistant Director of Forensic Biology. 58 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: On that frigid day January, nearly four thousand Americans died 59 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: of COVID, a greater death hole than nine eleven. We 60 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: sat with masks on windows, open, cold air flowing in 61 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: as dark fell. An interview about one mass casualty event 62 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: during another on nine eleven, Mark got to the trade 63 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: center right after the planes hit. We pulled right on 64 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: the vesse. There's an open spot. We pulled on a 65 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: vest which is right in the shadow of the North 66 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 1: tower where debris were falling. We got out of the truck. 67 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 1: It wasn't more than probably five seconds. Victim had fell 68 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 1: right in front of us. You know, I'm not gonna 69 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 1: say jump er. I don't know if they jumped, but 70 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 1: they fell right in front of us. And it was 71 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: this part of our job. With one of the dead, 72 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: we tagger, we collect a sample. We're sort of We 73 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: still had to find our chief. Our chief was down there, 74 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: but we got out of that. The fire depart made 75 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: sure by screaming at us to get the hell out 76 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: of that that circle around the tower, because that's where 77 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: all you were. People were being killed, debris and people 78 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 1: falling out of the upper floors were killing those on 79 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: the on the streets. So we made her away away 80 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: from that. And I remember there was this old fire 81 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: chief there. It looked like Sam Elliott if I had 82 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: the big mustache and like the leather, and he was 83 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: just stare at the top and I'm watching people hitting 84 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: the concrete and he's like, they're burning to death up there. 85 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 1: He goes, you you burn to death or you you 86 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: jump out and you get at least ten more seconds 87 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 1: of living. I'm like, man, then I knew. I'm like, 88 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: this is one of those days that is going to 89 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: change your life and career and everything. Mark found his boss, Dr. 90 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: Charles Hirsch at the corner of Liberty and West. So 91 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: his has his back to the South Tower and I'm 92 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: watching people drop and hit and I'm hearing him go 93 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: through glass and hitting sounds like Saint Lando on a vehicle. 94 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: And there are two people holding hands, and there's and 95 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: you look at the ground, there's just the brain ors. 96 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, this is this is And he had said, Yah, 97 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: there's people up to two blocks away. I took about 98 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: one step away in the South tower cracked right there 99 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,799 Speaker 1: within stone's throw of where we were standing. South Tower 100 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 1: cracked and you just saw that top of the building 101 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: and the steel and the fire just right over top 102 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 1: of us. And I'm like, I'm dead. This is how 103 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: I'm going to die. Mark ran across West. You really 104 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: don't see it in the in that big mushroom, but 105 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: there are bullets coming out of that and they were 106 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: they're hitting, and I mean shot would be guns. Before 107 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, that's that's going in. You could feel 108 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 1: them hit your head. So I put my arms up 109 00:06:57,720 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: and I was still trying to run, and it was 110 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: almost like a warm like draft and wham that debris 111 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: as it came down. You know, realize it comes down. 112 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: So if you're running, kind of like pits across the 113 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: street and hit right in the ass, right, and he 114 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: asked by I could tell as a piece of rebar 115 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: and from the X ray the next day, I got hit. 116 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: But let's say, let's say in my life that pushed 117 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: me the rest of the way into the building. I 118 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: didn't make the door the doors right here, but I 119 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: went to the window and my arms were already up 120 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: from the sting, and so my elbows and my head 121 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: also broke the glass I wasn't that far in though. 122 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: My bottom of my legs were still hanging out. And 123 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: as the debris hit the building and fell, it fell 124 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: across my last shattered, shattered my foot. I didn't make 125 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: it all the way in. I crawled in. It was 126 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: the darkest, quietest time I've very experienced. All that dust 127 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: made a pitch black, it softened, there was no sounds. 128 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: In a for a second, I'm like, I'm just supposed 129 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: to be I'm dead, right, this is like being dead, 130 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: completely dark and quiet. I didn't feel it any pain 131 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: or I don't even know I was even injured. Then I, 132 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: for the first time that morning, I panicked because I 133 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: try to do this. I try to go take a 134 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: big book. At that point, I was still hold my breath. 135 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: I was running, hold my breath. Hit smack glass, holding 136 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: my breath, dark, crawl in and I got to take 137 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: a big breath after holding your breath for a minute 138 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: or so. Oh, and there was no air. There was nothing, 139 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: absolutely like like trying to breathe under water. And then 140 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: I started panicking, gasping right, I said, hold, so maybe 141 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: if I get into the building. I just ran into 142 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,680 Speaker 1: the darkness, bumping into stuff as it thust started settling. 143 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: Pull my shirt up, I could read a little more. 144 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: Come down right, I'm not gonna die. Despite his shattered foot, 145 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: Mark had a ton of work to do. He and 146 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: the rest of the o CMME team recovered and identified 147 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: thousands of bodies and body parts without being too graphic. 148 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: Are you talking about bones, teeth, pieces of flesh? What 149 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: are you talking when you say human remains beyond the bone? 150 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: Every possible thing you can think of. Yeah, there were 151 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: um limbs, there were organs, hair, There's a lot of fire, 152 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: So tissue, blood, hair is not going to survive the fire. 153 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: You're only going to have remains and teeth. Teeth are 154 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,439 Speaker 1: the hardest part of your body will survive just about anything. 155 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: I've had cremated remains where there was still teeth that 156 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: we've been able to generate DNA profiles from. So bone 157 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,439 Speaker 1: can survive and and even though the outside of the 158 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: bone maybe charred and burn, but the inside might be protected. 159 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: So that's where we go where the marrow is to 160 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: generate a DNA profile. We've gotten plenty of DNA profile, 161 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: especially in two thousand one, from from blood, from from muscle, 162 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: you know, from organs, given the brutality of nine eleven, 163 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,959 Speaker 1: what Mark and his team accomplished is astounding. What are 164 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: things that destroy DNA? Heat and fire, water, sunlight, mold, bacteria, 165 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 1: nasty chemicals like jet fuel, diesel fuel. Everything that destroys 166 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: DNA was present at ground zero. So this is the 167 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: toughest forensic investigation, the toughest body idea. I've I've had 168 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: scientists from all over the world something that have done 169 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: like UM some projects you've probably heard about the Iceman 170 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: that they found frozen in the bog or some ancient 171 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: um neanderthal remains from thousands of years ago, tens of thousands. 172 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: That's a pretty tough material. I've brought them in and say, hey, 173 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: you've been successful with neanderthal bones and gotten DNA two 174 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: thousand year old mummies. We want to learn from you. 175 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 1: And and they look at our samples and they try, 176 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: and they're like, this is worse. The world Trade centers 177 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: a thousand times harder than than any Wow. Mark's team 178 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: also sifted through remains from ancient cemeteries below the trade 179 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: center site and thousands of animal bones from destroyed restaurants 180 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: and incinerated office bridges, recovering DNA was only half the battle, though. 181 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,679 Speaker 1: Mark also needed reference samples to match DNA to victims. 182 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: So World Trade Center we have seventeen thousand reference samples, 183 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: seventeen thousand toothbrushes and razors and brushes, and samples from 184 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: moms and dads and sons and daughters and brothers and sisters. 185 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: Seventeen thousand samples, which is are called the anti mortem. 186 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:12,839 Speaker 1: You know, this is stuff from when you were alive. 187 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: I have a toothbrush from when Mark was alive. Let's 188 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: take DNA from that toothbrush and compared to these remains, 189 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: because they might be Mark. Without those reference samples. Without 190 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: that anti mortem, you not identify anybody. The post bortom 191 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 1: side is what you take after you die, so you 192 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: need to equally important. So we have all this information 193 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: from all these thousands of toothbrushes and combs and anything. 194 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: Family members brought to us some very interesting things, including 195 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: a victim's prayer card, the blood of a victim who 196 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: cut himself while working on an aquarium right before nine eleven, 197 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: and a thirty three year old umbilical cord, but most 198 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 1: samples came from family members, including Snayhouse parents. Ultimately, Mark's 199 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: team identified one thousand, six and forty two out of 200 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: two thousand, seven hundred and fifty three victims, but not 201 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 1: snay Haw. Now, let's look at where victims died and 202 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: why it matters. In two thousand five, the National Institute 203 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: of Standards and Technology or NIST, released a detailed report 204 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: on the Trade Center disaster. Jason Avril, a fire protection engineer, 205 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:27,319 Speaker 1: led the team that examined occupant behavior, evacuation, and emergency communications. 206 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 1: So the goals of my project were to understand how, where, 207 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: and why the people died or successfully evacuated were their 208 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: factors relating to the design and the building, the design 209 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: of the ego system that contributed to success your failure. 210 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: Jason has not only scientific expertise, but also personal experience 211 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:54,319 Speaker 1: with an air disaster. In his dad, Daniel, died when 212 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,959 Speaker 1: US air flight crashed near Pittsburgh. Jason was in college 213 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 1: at the time. That experience guided him during the Trade 214 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: Center investigation, especially as the interviewed traumatized survivors and victim 215 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: family members. Jason's work and that of hundreds of other 216 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: NEST experts led to more than forty building code changes, 217 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: things like requiring photo luminescent markington stairs in case the 218 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: lights go out to save lives, steering future disasters, Jason's 219 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: team found that on nine eleven of civilians below the 220 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 1: impact zones where the planes hit the towers successfully evacuated. 221 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: To be clear, the study came out while Snayhouse case 222 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 1: was winding its way through court, before she was an 223 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: official victim. It did not include snay and some of 224 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: the data is estimated and imprecise, but the overall picture 225 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 1: is clear. One thousand, nine hundred and seventy four civilians 226 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: died at or above the points of impact, one, forty 227 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: eight died below, twenty four somewhere unspecified, one and forty 228 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:01,439 Speaker 1: seven on the planes, eighteen were bystanders nearby building occupants 229 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 1: killed by debris and or jet fuel, and for seventeen 230 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 1: there was no information. Four d one first responders also 231 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: died four hundred and three of whom worked for the NYPD, 232 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,959 Speaker 1: f D, n Y or Port Authority, plus two federal employees, 233 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: seven hospital employees and or paramedics, and nine volunteers. The 234 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: first theory about snay Haa is that she ran into 235 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: the towers to help and died, but only two percent 236 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: of first responder fatalities were volunteers two percent. The second 237 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: is that stay Hall was in the towers for some 238 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: other reason, maybe shopping, but only one percent of civilians 239 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: below the impact zones died on the third is that 240 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: snay Hall was killed by debris or jet fuel while 241 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: walking home, but only eighteen victims were bystanders or occupants 242 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: of nearby buildings point o o seven percent of nearly 243 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: three thousand victims two percent, one percent, point o o 244 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: seven percent. So is it possible that Snayhow died while volunteering, shopping, 245 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: or walking home. Yes, but it's extremely and demonstrably unlikely. 246 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: We've looked at DNA and we're victims. Sighed, what about 247 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: just basic logic theory number one? Snayhow ran into the 248 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: towers and died on the surface. It clicks, but dig 249 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: in and it doesn't make sense. The first firefighters reached 250 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: the trade center only four minutes after the first plane. 251 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: Hundreds of other firefighters, cops, and paramedics followed quickly. A 252 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: civilian doctor without supplies would not have been needed after say, 253 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: five to ten minutes, and even if snay Haa was 254 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: near the towers and wanted to help, she likely would 255 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: have been directed to a nearby triage area or hospital 256 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: out of the danger zone, or she could have helped 257 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: any of the thousands of people with minor injuries like 258 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: lacerations the walking wounded. Most victims had either minor injuries 259 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: or they died a few fell in between. The number 260 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: of victims in the lobbies alive but unable to walk, 261 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: for example, was minimal. Here's the other thing. Seventy three 262 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: minutes passed between the first plane strike and the collapse 263 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: of the first tower. It's unlikely that snayhow lingered in 264 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: the towers or would have been allowed to linger for 265 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: up to seventy three minutes as civilians escaped. Theory number 266 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: two snayho was shopping in the mall underneath the towers 267 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: or on her way to Windows on the World on 268 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: top of the North tower when the attacks began. This 269 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: doesn't make sense either. Ron told a reporter that he 270 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: and snay Haa never went to the trade center, that 271 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: she had no reason to be there, and even if 272 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: she was shopping in the all, she would have had 273 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 1: ample time to evacuate. In terms of Windows on the World, 274 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: snayhouse family posited that she wanted to scope it out 275 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: and advanced of a friend's wedding reception. But the wedding 276 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 1: wasn't set to take place until April two thousand two, 277 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 1: seven months later. And if walking home on nine eleven 278 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: after a night out, why would stay how log too 279 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,160 Speaker 1: heavy shopping bags to the top of a skyscraper without 280 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:26,360 Speaker 1: first stopping at her apartment only nine feet away. Finally, 281 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: that presumes she walked home and didn't take a cab. 282 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: Theory number three. While walking home, snay Hall was hit 283 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: by debris or jet fuel, but out of nearly three 284 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: thousand victims, only eighteen were bystanders or occupants of nearby buildings. 285 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 1: Is it possible snay Hall was the nineteenth Yes, but 286 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: if debris hit her, it's unlikely she would have laid 287 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: in the street until the towers fell. Most victims hit 288 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: by debris or jet fuel were pulled off the street 289 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,239 Speaker 1: and taken to hospitals. Is it possible that snay Hall 290 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 1: was crossing between the towers through the plaza, not on 291 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: the street, at the exact moment the first plane hit again, Yes, technically, 292 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 1: but is it likely Theory number four. On September, attended 293 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 1: a party at a hotel next to the trade center, 294 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: presumably the Marriott between the towers, hosted by the city's 295 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: South Asian community. She stayed to night, even though she 296 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 1: lived only nine feet away, and died the next day. 297 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: This theory was put forth by snayhouse older brother Ashwyn. 298 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: I have no idea where he got it. It doesn't 299 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,400 Speaker 1: make sense, and I found no evidence of any South 300 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:36,120 Speaker 1: Asian party on a Monday night anywhere in the city, 301 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: let alone near or between the towers. Nonetheless, for the 302 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: sake of due diligence, I reached out to a woman 303 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: named Doreen Dunn, who worked at the Marriott World Trade 304 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: Center from until nine eleven. I was an event manager, 305 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 1: so I dealt with meetings, some weddings, you know, conferences, 306 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: that kind of thing, and what I did was planned 307 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: all the details of the event. Dorene got to work 308 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: between seven thirty and eight am on nine eleven. An 309 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: hour later, we heard a huge noise, like really loud noise. 310 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: Are lights in the office flashed for a second but 311 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: came back on and I ran. We had a window. 312 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: I was on the third floor. I had a window, 313 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: so I looked out on the street and there at 314 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 1: the same time, there was like a ten car accident. 315 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: Like then everyone must have heard it and people weren't 316 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: paying attention, and all of these cars just hit each other. 317 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: And I remember there was a there was construction, and 318 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,880 Speaker 1: the construction person he just started picking up his cones 319 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: like really quick. So I thought he did something because 320 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: I had no idea, you know, that's something that would 321 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: ever happened. And then we could see, you know, things 322 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: falling from the sky, and we just knew it was 323 00:19:55,880 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 1: something bad. I asked Dorene what she remembers about September tenth. 324 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,360 Speaker 1: Did the hotel host the party for the city South 325 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: Asian community. I don't remember really anything going on in 326 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: the hotel. Like Monday's were usually because we were a 327 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: business hotel, everything would start like on a Tuesday. People, 328 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 1: you know, because most of the time people didn't want 329 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: to travel on their personal time, so like a lot 330 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 1: of the groups would arrive on Monday and then their 331 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: event would start on Tuesday. So Mondays were kind of 332 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: usually a pretty mellow day in my department. But I 333 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: don't remember that. So we've looked at DNA where victims 334 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 1: died and logic next eyewitnesses, photos and videos. The first 335 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,399 Speaker 1: is easy in twenty years, no one has come forward 336 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: to say they remember a petite, beautiful Indian American woman 337 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: in a brown dress and sandals running into the towers. 338 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,679 Speaker 1: I searched oral histories and spoke to authors, but found nothing. 339 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: The second is more complicated. It's been said that nine 340 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 1: eleven was the most photographed event in history, but the 341 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: vast majority of photos and videos were captured at a distance. 342 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: Street level. Footage taken near the towers is rare. Images 343 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: captured inside the towers are extremely rare. I looked at everything. 344 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: I crawled into deep corners of the Internet and poured 345 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: through out of print books to find any footage of 346 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: snay Haw would more or less be to solve this case. 347 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 1: It would prove she was exposed to a specific peril eleven. 348 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: I sifted through so many images looking for the woman 349 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: in the brown dress. I got motion sick, and maybe 350 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 1: staring at thousands of nine eleven photos while locked away 351 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: in an apartment during a pandemic death winter is not, 352 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: shall we say, great for one's mental health. Anyway, I 353 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: looked and looked, first through public images and videos, and 354 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: then I reached out to twenty photographers, amateur and professional, 355 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:54,640 Speaker 1: to see if they would grant me access to their 356 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: full archives. Six responded, Two were very helpful, Todd maizel Of, 357 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,679 Speaker 1: former photographer for the New York Daily News, and Massy Swalinski, 358 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: an amateur photographer. Massiege has never been interviewed by an 359 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: American journalist until now. In two thousand one, he lived 360 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 1: in New Jersey. Every day he took a ferry to Manhattan, 361 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: where he worked as an I T specialist for Goldman Sachs. 362 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 1: When he got off the ferry, he walked by the 363 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: Twin Towers on his way to work on nine eleven. 364 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: He carried an early model digital camera, a Cannon power 365 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,120 Speaker 1: Shot Pro ninety I s to be exact two point 366 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 1: six megapixels. It was a pretty day and he figured, pay, 367 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: I'll snap some photos. At am, Messiege was standing directly 368 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: across the street from the Trade Center when he heard 369 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 1: a loud boom. I had no idea, where is this 370 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: coming from? What is happening? Google was so saddened. And 371 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: then I started to see at West Side Highway, which 372 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 1: actually was, to my surprise, almost empty. I don't know 373 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: how it happened, but there was no traffic anymore except 374 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 1: one car. It was passenger car who had tires punctured. 375 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 1: So driver drove very slowly with that noise of flat tires, 376 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: but was trying evidently to to drive away from that area. 377 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: So the car must have been hit by debris from 378 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 1: the collision. From that accident, a debris was everywhere. Was 379 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: a lot was covering west side highway and then all 380 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: the streets around. My feeling was, well, what's the tragic 381 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:48,399 Speaker 1: accident happened? Probably a small a plane hit the tower 382 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: by an accident. I've never thought at that point that 383 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 1: it is a thirdist attack. So I noticed a fire 384 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 1: from the north tower, and I was on the south side, 385 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 1: so I went closer to the south tower and from 386 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:19,880 Speaker 1: different angles I started to take pictures of the towers 387 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: and the smoke from the north tower. And my next 388 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: that was to take pictures on the ground. Were not 389 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: many people, very few people around. I noticed one of 390 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 1: the cars on fire somehow he is that the attire 391 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: was burning a lot of the brier around. I was 392 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: really running very quickly around. We fill in the air. 393 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: Something unusual happening for the moment. I went even to 394 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: this the plaza that used to be between two towers. 395 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: This is the area were spear sculpture was back then, 396 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: and it was also absolutely empty from the sky was 397 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 1: they were falling the hundreds of different documents paper. It 398 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: was like confetti on Broadway on the kindon of Hero. 399 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: So just was falling from the sky from that damaged tower. 400 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: I didn't see any people escaping from the building. It 401 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: was nobody outside. I went back the place I used 402 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 1: to walk before, so I went south next to the 403 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: entrance to the tower. So I was between the South 404 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: Tower and Deutsche Bank building. And then I stopped after 405 00:25:55,400 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 1: thinking a group of pictures and I started to look 406 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: around what is on the ground, and then from that debris, 407 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: I realized that it is not just the debris from 408 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: the building. I realized there are parts of the plane, wires, 409 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: electronics like part of the computers. I also noticed belongings 410 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 1: of the passengers. I noticed shoes, and the most touching 411 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 1: was to see human flesh, the parts of it and 412 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: the fresh blood very everywhere. I was really understanding that 413 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 1: big stragedy happened. But this could not last long for 414 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 1: me to look at this and really take the whole 415 00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 1: picture of the strategy, because at that moment I heard 416 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: a jet flying very close. I raised my head and 417 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: I saw the plane right above my head, and in 418 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: a fraction of second when I was looking at it, 419 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,679 Speaker 1: I saw that the plane disappeared inside the tower. So 420 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 1: the whole big plane with the wing just got inside 421 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: and disappeared. I was standing on the street, like I 422 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: mentioned before, It was before the tower and Deutsche Bank building, 423 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: and I had no cover. The breeze started to fall 424 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: all around, noise of metal with different sounds, and I 425 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: just was so scared, so I thought no way to escape. 426 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: You know, it's just just the instinct of their direction. 427 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: I wanted to be as small as possible to avoid 428 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: any hit from the bath, and when this happened, I 429 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 1: was really really scared, and so in a few minutes 430 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 1: I decided to go away from this area because it 431 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: was too scary for me. Only one minute after American 432 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: eleven hit the North Tower, Messige took his first photo 433 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 1: of the tower on fire. He stood at the intersection 434 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: of Liberty and West, two blocks north of Snay House building. 435 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: In fact, he would have been very close to the 436 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: mystery woman who exited the building. At at eight fifty, 437 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: Messige took his first street level photo. Three men are 438 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: visible but their blurry. He kept shooting as he crossed 439 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: west to Liberty just south of the South Tower, crushed cars, fires, pedestrians, 440 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: and disbelief debris everywhere. At Messiege took a photo in 441 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: which about twenty people are visible. The closest is a 442 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: black woman facing away from the camera. At nine who 443 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: united one flew right over Messiege into the South Tower. 444 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 1: He pointed his camera up and snapped an image as 445 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: debris rained down on him. He stuck around only a 446 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: few more minutes, then walked to his office. Massiege kindly 447 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 1: provided me high resolution copies of every photo he took 448 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: on nine eleven, so too did Todd Maizel, who worked 449 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: for the New York Daily News for nineteen years. On 450 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: nine eleven, Todd followed a police truck speeding down the 451 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: West Side Highway toward the towers. At nine oh two am, 452 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: he saw a fireball the second plane. He parked at 453 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: West End Chambers in the middle of the street, five 454 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: blocks north of the Trade Center, grabbed his camera and 455 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: sprinted south. I started running down west and I'm seeing 456 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: people fleeing from the direction of the World Trade Center. 457 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: And then I made a left on to what drew 458 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 1: you to VESI you said you had been drawn to 459 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: h I saw plane ponds. I didn't see much going 460 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: on straight down on West, so I didn't go that direction. 461 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 1: I just something drew my eye and I said, I'm 462 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: going that way. Todd ran around three sides of the 463 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: Trades Center complex a left on Vessey, right on Church, 464 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: right on Liberty, northeast and south of the towers. The 465 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: entire time he shot photos. So when you were circling 466 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: the trade Center complex, you didn't see anyone laying in 467 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: the streets anyone. Oh no, no, not at that point. 468 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: But most of the people that had been removed from 469 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: the streets already A long church who was absolutely dead 470 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: quiet until I got the Liberty. When I got the Liberty, 471 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: I got to the fire house ten and ten, and 472 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: the people lying on the ground injured, apparently they had 473 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: been heard on the ground. There was fire on the ground, 474 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: plain pots, pieces of building all over the place. On 475 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: the parking lot right across the street on Liberty and 476 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: West Street, a lot. There was big parking lot there. 477 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: Some of the cause were burning. A few of the 478 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: Cause had pieces of metal that had fallen from the 479 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: top of the building and went right into the into 480 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: the cars. Then I saw body parts, body parts on 481 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: the ground on the most famous one, of course, is 482 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 1: the one I took of the hand. Todd stumbled upon 483 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: a severed hand and shot an image of it. I've 484 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: seen the photo before, but when I looked at it 485 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: again closely, I noticed something new, A small strange rectangle 486 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: next to the hand. At first I saw it and 487 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: I'm like, what is that? It almost looked like a 488 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: dog tag or something. I was like, there's no way 489 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: that that's some kind of identification. And then I zoomed 490 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: in and I'm like, does that say Hershey's? And it's 491 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 1: just this one single rectangle part of the Hershey's chocolate bar. 492 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: That's right, That's right. It gives it some gives a 493 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: different sense of humanity, um normalcy that it was going 494 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: on prior to the whole horror. Todd shared his photos 495 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 1: with me, hundreds of them, most of which have never 496 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: been published date. All the narrative of destruction, both grand 497 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: and granular, graphic and compelling, a complete, uninterrupted visceral story. 498 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: Look up the burning towers, looked down part of a 499 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: plane fuselage. Look up again, a man falling to his death. 500 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 1: Look down again a severed hand. Todd captured history as 501 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 1: it should be captured, in my opinion, in its entirety. 502 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: You captured images of body parts, the hand, the severed 503 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: hand being the most well known. Why did you choose 504 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: to capture those images that were important? They were important 505 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: that they to minimize the terror and the horror of 506 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: that day would be an injustice to the public. That's it. 507 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,239 Speaker 1: That's it in a nutshell, to minimize the horror? Is 508 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:53,239 Speaker 1: this censorship? It's wrong. And the Daily News used that 509 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: picture in the paper and they quote a lot of 510 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 1: flak from it until he edited it caused a took 511 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: it out in a later edition, but it ran, It 512 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: ran the paper. I was shocked when I saw it 513 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: that it ran the paper, But I was proud. I 514 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: was proud that the Daily News had the guts to 515 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 1: do it, that the editors there said this is a 516 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: powerful picture. They understood it. Todd's photos are graphic and upsetting. 517 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: By the time I viewed them, I had sifted through 518 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: thousands of nine eleven images. I wasn't expecting to feel anything, 519 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: but I felt sick. They made me nauseous. Other than 520 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: the severed hand, the most disturbing images he captured were 521 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: of the death of firefighter Danny. Sir, you saw him 522 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: hit and I saw him killed. He was the first 523 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: one to die. Did you realize that he had been 524 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 1: hit by a person? No? No, I found out later, 525 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 1: maybe two weeks later. I found out that that he 526 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: had actually gotten hit by a person. Uh And because 527 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 1: when what hit him broke upont just a big splot, 528 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 1: but to him it was like a piece of concrete. 529 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 1: They loaded him up on a gurney and they saw 530 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: carrying him away. I kind of lost it at that point. 531 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: The sky was dead. I just knew it. Um and 532 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 1: I started crying a little bit. And another photographer was there. 533 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 1: I don't know who he was to this day says 534 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: to me, try to keep it together, try to keep 535 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 1: it together. And uh so I started shooting again. I 536 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: shot a couple of pictures of the Greek church with 537 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,319 Speaker 1: the with the burning cowers in the background, and I 538 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: looked up and buildings coming towards me. Just the sky 539 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: opened up, black pieces of debris. For for one second. 540 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: You saw it, and you said, I said, no pictures, 541 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 1: Run run, run, And all I had in my head 542 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: was run, run, run, un run. Run, run all the 543 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: way into ninety West Street. I dived into the into 544 00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: the lobby of the building, and I swear to God, 545 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: I was midday when that building hit. I hit the ground, 546 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 1: curled up, and the building crashed into the into ninety 547 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:14,799 Speaker 1: West and debris came raining down, and the ceiling collapsed, 548 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 1: wall was collapsing. The whole lobby filled with dust. You 549 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,839 Speaker 1: couldn't see a thing. The lights went out. Darkness, darkness, 550 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: I remember, darkness and dust, and I just stayed down. 551 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 1: I pulled out a bandanna had with me, I wrapped 552 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 1: around my face, and I said, I gotta get out 553 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 1: of him, gonna die. I started crawling out backwards. After 554 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:44,320 Speaker 1: the South tower fell, Todd in his colleague David Hanshew 555 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: took refuge in a Delhi. David's legs were shattered. Todd 556 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,720 Speaker 1: shot photos of him on the floor covered in dust. 557 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 1: Then here a raw coming to like a train coming 558 00:35:55,120 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 1: towards us. The North tower falls. I just curled up 559 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 1: next to a refrigerator in the Delhi and bomb. Debris 560 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: was rained down on the front of the building. The 561 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 1: whole facade collapsed. De Bris everywhere turn pitch black, pitch 562 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 1: black dust, and I just waited, and you hear the 563 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:24,799 Speaker 1: firefighters and the cops, and I don't know who it is, 564 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 1: but they were. They're crying and screaming, we're gonna die, 565 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 1: We're gonna die. And then all of a sudden, the 566 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,959 Speaker 1: light came through the windows, and I said, we're gonna 567 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:41,480 Speaker 1: live through this one. Only one professional photographer died on 568 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,840 Speaker 1: nine eleven, Bill Bigger, who snapped his final frame a 569 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,160 Speaker 1: split second before the North Tower collapsed onto him. The 570 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 1: lack of additional casualties speaks in part to how few 571 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 1: photographers got so close to the towers by this point. 572 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,840 Speaker 1: I know their names. I've searched their photos looking for 573 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 1: snay Haaw the woman in the brown dress. It might 574 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 1: seem crazy, like a waste of time, but it's worked 575 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: at least twice in other cases. In two thousand to 576 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,840 Speaker 1: a man named Mike Rambusk found a photo of his 577 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 1: son Luke hanging out of a broken window high in 578 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,880 Speaker 1: the North Tower, only fifteen minutes before it fell. And 579 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,319 Speaker 1: in a man named Judgson Box found a photo of 580 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 1: his son Gary, a firefighter, running through a tunnel toward 581 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:26,279 Speaker 1: the towers. But to replicate that to find snay haa 582 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 1: manually would take a miracle, so we decided to automate 583 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 1: the process. We partnered with two companies, ai H Tech 584 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: and true Face to use cutting edge facial recognition software 585 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 1: to scan nine eleven images forced ha. Here's a i 586 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:46,040 Speaker 1: H tech co founder Ben Sue the AI compute vision Definitely, 587 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:50,239 Speaker 1: we can't help people better uh searching for their loved 588 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:54,280 Speaker 1: ones and hundreds of, not thousands, a hundred thousands of images. 589 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 1: To my knowledge, artificial intelligence has never been used for 590 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 1: something like this to search historical images for a missing person. First, 591 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 1: we scraped all publicly available nine eleven footage that shows 592 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: people in or near the towers. Then we contacted twenty photographers, 593 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:15,240 Speaker 1: including Massid Swolinsky and Todd Maizel, to access unpublished images. 594 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 1: We ended up with a hundred gigabytes of footage, one thousand, 595 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: three hundred and seventy three photos, seven hundred and nineties 596 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,759 Speaker 1: seven videos. We also collected fifty three photos of snay 597 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,840 Speaker 1: Haw as reference images. One of the reasons we chose 598 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,520 Speaker 1: to work with both ai H Tech and true Face 599 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,840 Speaker 1: is that they focus on ethical applications of facial recognition technology, 600 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,880 Speaker 1: including the minimization of gender and racial bias. Each company 601 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 1: helped us in different ways. Ai H Tech trained us 602 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,840 Speaker 1: to use their software directly, and true Face ran a 603 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:49,799 Speaker 1: search for us. Here's True Face CEO Shawn Moore. We 604 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,879 Speaker 1: are a computer vision company that is is fundamentally trying 605 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,520 Speaker 1: to teach cameras to see like human beings, so to 606 00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 1: ingest a visual field and understand what is familiar and 607 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: what is not familiar and if that is familiar, is 608 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,480 Speaker 1: it important to me? Can you kind of walk me 609 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 1: through the software just for a great persons like high 610 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 1: level overview of how it works. Yeah. Absolutely. So we 611 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 1: take the person in consideration. So in this case it 612 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 1: was a female, we take the images that we have 613 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,760 Speaker 1: of her that we're looking to reference amongst the broader 614 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,280 Speaker 1: set of images. So think about it as her profile. 615 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 1: We've got a profile of her that we enroll as 616 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,399 Speaker 1: as person one, and then we look at the overall consideration. 617 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 1: I think in this case we we found roughly four 618 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,200 Speaker 1: hundred and seventy seven thousand pictures of people are faces 619 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 1: in those images and videos. Four hundred and seventy seven 620 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:40,359 Speaker 1: thousand faces. That doesn't mean four hundred and seventy seven 621 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:44,600 Speaker 1: thousand people because undoubtedly many were duplicates of the same person, 622 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,040 Speaker 1: but still that's a ton of faces, and so we're 623 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 1: looking then at does this woman match any of those 624 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 1: faces across the media files, the videos, and the photos. 625 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 1: And the way we do that is we zero in 626 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,880 Speaker 1: on every face in every frame. We extract what's called 627 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:06,359 Speaker 1: a biometric temper to facial recognition face template, So think 628 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,960 Speaker 1: about it like a fingerprint of your face. It's proprietary 629 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 1: to you. You're the only one that has that. And 630 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 1: then we look at a certain threshold, does the individual 631 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: we're looking for face prints matched the face print of 632 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,240 Speaker 1: anyone in those four hundred and seventy seven thousand faces, 633 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 1: And so you know, effectively we're programmatically trying to match. 634 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,799 Speaker 1: And what we did was we set a high threshold 635 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,800 Speaker 1: of of what in our case is a similarity threshold 636 00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:36,319 Speaker 1: point six, and we got no matches. And so we 637 00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,759 Speaker 1: continue to lower that threshold down until we start to 638 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 1: see some matches, knowing that there there could be false 639 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,719 Speaker 1: positives that will require human review. And so you know, 640 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,000 Speaker 1: as we lower that threshold, we start to see more 641 00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,880 Speaker 1: more hits, and then we went manually through those hits 642 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,920 Speaker 1: and ultimately did not find the person in any of 643 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,280 Speaker 1: those images. In the hundred gigs of data we provided 644 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 1: two thousand, one hundred and seventy photos and videos captured 645 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,799 Speaker 1: in or near the towers. On nine eleven, True Face 646 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: detected four and seventy seven thousand faces, which is impressive 647 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:11,600 Speaker 1: but not Snay has, so we turned to ai H Tech. 648 00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,319 Speaker 1: Having direct access to their intuitive software allowed us to 649 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 1: fiddle with things like the confidence threshold. Basically, how confident 650 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,240 Speaker 1: is the algorithm that two faces belong to the same person. 651 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,560 Speaker 1: A H Tech recommended that we start with at least 652 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 1: a seventy percent threshold, high enough to limit false matches, 653 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,880 Speaker 1: but low enough to grab frames of anyone who resembled 654 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,359 Speaker 1: Snay so we could double check everything manually. Any match 655 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:40,160 Speaker 1: above we found her. Our assistant producer, Chris, first tested 656 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 1: the ai H software at a very low threshold. It 657 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:48,439 Speaker 1: misidentified multiple items like tires as human faces. It even 658 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:52,640 Speaker 1: detected a morphous faces in the billowing smoke, which was eerie, 659 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:59,480 Speaker 1: so we stuck with the recommended minimum. Technically, to test 660 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:03,000 Speaker 1: the epic see of the software, we ran on say 661 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:09,400 Speaker 1: It worked a ton of matches anywhere. From then, Chris 662 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,239 Speaker 1: ran all the nine eleven footage we collected. We got 663 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,640 Speaker 1: a few hits in the mid seventies, both photos and videos. 664 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:20,040 Speaker 1: The highest was eighty point a woman captured on video 665 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,279 Speaker 1: by Luigi cuts Aiga running as the South tower fell. 666 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:28,240 Speaker 1: Definitely not snay ha though. In the end, one hundred 667 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,800 Speaker 1: gigs of footage, two thousand one d and seventy photos 668 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:36,080 Speaker 1: and videos to facial recognition programs using cutting Edge AI 669 00:42:36,840 --> 00:43:05,120 Speaker 1: no snay ha. So as we consider the likelihood that 670 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,840 Speaker 1: snay Haa died on nine eleven at the Trade Center, 671 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,759 Speaker 1: this is what we're left with. She's among the forty 672 00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,640 Speaker 1: of victims whose remains have never been identified. Only one 673 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:18,439 Speaker 1: percent of civilians below the impact zones died. Only two 674 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,240 Speaker 1: percent of first responders who died were volunteers. Only point 675 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,440 Speaker 1: o o seven percent of victims were civilians killed by 676 00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:29,400 Speaker 1: falling debris or jet fuel. A civilian doctor without supplies 677 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,320 Speaker 1: likely wasn't needed after the first five to ten minutes, 678 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,800 Speaker 1: when hundreds of firefighters, cops, and paramedics arrived. It's unlikely 679 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:38,920 Speaker 1: snay how would have been allowed to linger for up 680 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 1: to seventy three minutes until the first tower collapsed. No 681 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:46,120 Speaker 1: eyewitnesses Saucenah in or near the towers, and we can't 682 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,440 Speaker 1: find any photos or videos showing snay on nine eleven. 683 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,960 Speaker 1: In an earlier episode, I said, there are four possible 684 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,879 Speaker 1: logical explanations as to what could have happened to snay 685 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:02,360 Speaker 1: haa suicide we ruled out foul play, either random or 686 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,760 Speaker 1: at the hands of some must Snayha new is unlikely. 687 00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,279 Speaker 1: Nine eleven seems less likely, and the idea that snay 688 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:12,040 Speaker 1: How ran away is wild. So what then? There are 689 00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,920 Speaker 1: endless other theories, many of which you've shared with us. 690 00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,200 Speaker 1: Snay Haw overdosed and whomever she was with panicked and 691 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,040 Speaker 1: hit her body. She stayed to night in the towers 692 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,840 Speaker 1: with someone. The persons snay House stayed with died on 693 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,920 Speaker 1: nine eleven, and that's why they never came forward. There 694 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:31,640 Speaker 1: are so many theories you'll drive yourself crazy, but most 695 00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,759 Speaker 1: make little, if any sense. None are more likely than 696 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,360 Speaker 1: either nine eleven or the idea that Snayha ran away. 697 00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,000 Speaker 1: After a year obsessed with this case, to me, no 698 00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:45,680 Speaker 1: theory makes complete sense, but those who make the most sense. 699 00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,680 Speaker 1: So how do you prove either first? Nine eleven. The 700 00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,200 Speaker 1: most concrete way to solve this case would be to 701 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,879 Speaker 1: identify Snayhouse DNA, and that is possible. The New York 702 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,880 Speaker 1: City O C and ME continues its vital work. It 703 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,879 Speaker 1: still has seventh alson two and four unidentified remains, and 704 00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:08,720 Speaker 1: in seventeen, eighteen and nineteen it made new identifications. Here's 705 00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:11,799 Speaker 1: smart desire we're working on right now. We we spent 706 00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,920 Speaker 1: some time with the military UH down in Dover, Delaware. 707 00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:18,120 Speaker 1: They've got an amazing technique that we're bringing on that 708 00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:19,719 Speaker 1: I know is going to make even more I D 709 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,400 Speaker 1: s and it's it takes takes some time to validate it, 710 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,520 Speaker 1: to make sure it's right and it works properly. Because 711 00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,520 Speaker 1: some of these remains are very small. We might have 712 00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,000 Speaker 1: one shot. You've got a tiny little piece of moment 713 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,120 Speaker 1: about the size of a tic tac A one shot. 714 00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:36,239 Speaker 1: We're gonna pulverize that and try to take DNA out 715 00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:40,000 Speaker 1: of it. If we fail, probably not gonna be able 716 00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,319 Speaker 1: to ever get a DNA profile from It's so it's 717 00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:44,960 Speaker 1: very stressful when you're working with these samples. Since this 718 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,120 Speaker 1: new technique or new technology that you're taking from the 719 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,120 Speaker 1: military in Delaware, can you tell me a little bit 720 00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 1: about that. Up until now, you're your your forensic techniques, 721 00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:58,960 Speaker 1: you look at on the on the DNA strand, you 722 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,279 Speaker 1: look at repeat you and it's of d N A, 723 00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:03,640 Speaker 1: a little bits of DNA that are repeated over and 724 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,839 Speaker 1: over again. And this is a norm for for all 725 00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,480 Speaker 1: crime labs in New York City. One of the things 726 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:11,319 Speaker 1: we've been able to do is is take things like 727 00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,520 Speaker 1: bone and break them down and pulverize them even more 728 00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:18,000 Speaker 1: very fine tap powder, more access to the cells. Bone 729 00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,680 Speaker 1: by itself is the hardest material to work with. Blood 730 00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:24,239 Speaker 1: and saliva and hair, that's easy. Bone it's very tough, 731 00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,680 Speaker 1: very tough to work with, so pulverizing it, taking the 732 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:32,640 Speaker 1: DNA app chemicals extraction, we've improved that process quantitation how 733 00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:37,680 Speaker 1: much DNA is present, improve that amplifying it, taking very 734 00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:39,840 Speaker 1: small amounts and making more of it in the lab. 735 00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,960 Speaker 1: A lot of these procedures are for medical research. Some 736 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,800 Speaker 1: of the top top medical research labs, we've taken techniques 737 00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,799 Speaker 1: from them. But now we've got this this technique, this 738 00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:52,600 Speaker 1: next generation sequencing it's called and it will look at 739 00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:56,080 Speaker 1: every single base or every single chemical on the strand 740 00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,279 Speaker 1: rather than looking at blocks of it like we do now, 741 00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:02,239 Speaker 1: we can look at tiny little sections. And what this 742 00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,959 Speaker 1: allows us to do is when I had said things 743 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,280 Speaker 1: like sunlight and fire destroy DNA. Picture of DNA strand 744 00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:14,200 Speaker 1: we've all seen the DNA helix very thin, very fragile. 745 00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,400 Speaker 1: The sunlight will just break it up into pieces water 746 00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:21,120 Speaker 1: or insects or moto bacteria. And if it's broken up 747 00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:23,480 Speaker 1: too much, we're not able to count these repeats. But 748 00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:27,840 Speaker 1: that next generation sequencing looks at such tiny, small pieces, 749 00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,840 Speaker 1: you're still able to see that information. So very exciting, 750 00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:34,960 Speaker 1: very nerdy stuff, but very exciting. There's also a very 751 00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:38,360 Speaker 1: remote possibility that new remains could be recovered from Manhattan 752 00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:42,920 Speaker 1: rooftops or sewers. After nine eleven. Authorities swore they examined 753 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:47,360 Speaker 1: everything everywhere multiple times. But in two thousand six, construction 754 00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:50,480 Speaker 1: workers found bones on top of the damage Deutsche Bank building. 755 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,160 Speaker 1: They were on a rooftop and it had rock ballast. 756 00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:58,359 Speaker 1: Some roofs have like stone on them right there, right 757 00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:00,279 Speaker 1: do you have this out there have stone on them 758 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,279 Speaker 1: to protect for the ailment whatever. And as they were 759 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:05,320 Speaker 1: taking into the construction workers were like, that's not a stone? 760 00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:07,560 Speaker 1: What is? And they immediately we always had people on 761 00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,680 Speaker 1: site and they called the medically examiner uh An M. 762 00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:14,160 Speaker 1: L I over and they were like human remains. Halt 763 00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:19,560 Speaker 1: halted deconstruction. We brought our team in seve bones. We 764 00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,600 Speaker 1: found if you held your hands out, most of them 765 00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,200 Speaker 1: would fit in there. They're very small pieces. For five 766 00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:27,960 Speaker 1: years they sat on this roof in the sun and 767 00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:32,120 Speaker 1: the rain and the insects and the snow, and UH 768 00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,960 Speaker 1: brought into my team and said, hey, we just recovered these, 769 00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:39,359 Speaker 1: and we had just improved the DNA process again. I'm like, well, 770 00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:41,800 Speaker 1: let's use the new procedure. These are really tough samples. 771 00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,360 Speaker 1: Anytime remains sit out, bone sits out, that just bakes 772 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,680 Speaker 1: that the UV rand. These were such small samples. I 773 00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:50,279 Speaker 1: didn't have any hopes for any of them. There were 774 00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:52,560 Speaker 1: a lot of them, and UH my team went to 775 00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:54,839 Speaker 1: work and they came back there like Boss, we got 776 00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,319 Speaker 1: the I'm like what the new technique. I'm like that 777 00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:03,040 Speaker 1: new techniques is awesome. What are the chances that there 778 00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:07,360 Speaker 1: are bone fragments on other roofs that have not been discovered? 779 00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:11,719 Speaker 1: Twenty years later after that, there was another round of 780 00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:15,640 Speaker 1: searching all of the remains at that point. I think 781 00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:19,839 Speaker 1: after that there were still some discovered, but these were 782 00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:23,399 Speaker 1: remains that were really deep in the ground or some 783 00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,200 Speaker 1: sowarce systems that kind of got caved in. So we 784 00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:31,279 Speaker 1: continue to find some some remains after that, but there 785 00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:35,480 Speaker 1: wasn't There wasn't that that many like we saw on 786 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:39,000 Speaker 1: that roof, the small fragments. So is there a chance, sure, 787 00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:42,360 Speaker 1: there could be a tiny fragment that somebody overlooked someplace. 788 00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,200 Speaker 1: Possibly there's a lot of buildings down here that are 789 00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:47,840 Speaker 1: kind of close together. You know, those areas were searched 790 00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:51,719 Speaker 1: for something that probably hasn't been searching under ears. You 791 00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:55,799 Speaker 1: never know it could because there was such a a 792 00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:59,880 Speaker 1: large area that that were recovered with remains. I do 793 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,680 Speaker 1: also get asked about Fresh Kills. Fresh Kills is the 794 00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:07,160 Speaker 1: former Staten Island landfill. We're first responders sifted through one 795 00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:10,200 Speaker 1: point a million tons of trade center debris. I get 796 00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:14,080 Speaker 1: asked by by victims families do I think as a scientist, 797 00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:18,120 Speaker 1: are the remains buried at Fresh Kills? And my answer 798 00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:22,359 Speaker 1: is yes, absolutely. Back in two thousand one, two thousand two, 799 00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,399 Speaker 1: we were technology, we were looking for larger fragments. Could 800 00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:29,520 Speaker 1: there be um, you know, something a splinter of bone 801 00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:31,480 Speaker 1: buried in the ground up there? Sure? And then the 802 00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:34,160 Speaker 1: next question is can you get DNA from with that, 803 00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:37,080 Speaker 1: I don't know that. I don't know until you try. 804 00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:41,719 Speaker 1: I've had so many samples brought before me. We're gonna like, 805 00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,319 Speaker 1: you're not getting anything from this. Looking at it like 806 00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:47,600 Speaker 1: and sure enough, like Wow, it's amazing. Science is amazing. 807 00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,160 Speaker 1: The two places where remains could still be located twenty 808 00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:54,360 Speaker 1: years later are near ground zero or at Fresh Kills, 809 00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:57,239 Speaker 1: where trade center debris is buried in Section one nine, 810 00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:00,280 Speaker 1: also known as the West Mound. It's a long shot, 811 00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:05,239 Speaker 1: but it's not impossible. For example, surveyors located a piece 812 00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:08,080 Speaker 1: of a plane wing between two buildings near ground zero, 813 00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,960 Speaker 1: and this wasn't some tiny piece four ft wide, five 814 00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,319 Speaker 1: ft long, two d and fifty pounds. It sat there 815 00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:19,600 Speaker 1: for twelve years. As for Fresh Kills, some victim family 816 00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:23,239 Speaker 1: members believed that debris wasn't adequately sifted through, or that 817 00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:26,600 Speaker 1: some wasn't served at all. There are human remains at 818 00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,680 Speaker 1: Fresh Kills. No one disputes that. The question is whether 819 00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:35,040 Speaker 1: any are identifiable. Probably not, because presumably most are blended 820 00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:38,000 Speaker 1: into what's called the finds anything under the sides of 821 00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:41,640 Speaker 1: a thumbnail. Here's Jay Aaronson, the author of Who Owns 822 00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,600 Speaker 1: the dead, the science and politics of death. At ground zero, 823 00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:48,680 Speaker 1: there was this material, this kind of very fine material 824 00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:52,280 Speaker 1: that was a mix of the stuff that the towers 825 00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:54,800 Speaker 1: were built of, you know, you think of dry laws 826 00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:58,200 Speaker 1: and then other materials that had sort of been pulverized, 827 00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:02,120 Speaker 1: and there was certainly so some charge human remains in 828 00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:05,280 Speaker 1: that material as well. Many of the people whose remains 829 00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,600 Speaker 1: couldn't be found are parts of their bodies were were 830 00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:12,560 Speaker 1: actually pulverized or sort of ground up in the heat 831 00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:16,080 Speaker 1: and pressure of the explosion of the planes and then 832 00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:19,200 Speaker 1: the collapse of the towers into themselves and into the 833 00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:23,200 Speaker 1: seven story area under street level, And so there was 834 00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:25,280 Speaker 1: really not much that could be done with that material, 835 00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:28,560 Speaker 1: so it was it was essentially left that fresh kills 836 00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:31,680 Speaker 1: past human remains. There's also the chance that some of 837 00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:35,160 Speaker 1: snahs personal belongings pulled from trade center debris could still 838 00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:39,719 Speaker 1: be identified her family wonders, specifically about jewelry. According to 839 00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:43,879 Speaker 1: the New York Post, as of the NYPD still had 840 00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:47,640 Speaker 1: three thousand, four hundred and eighty three unidentified invoices in 841 00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:53,120 Speaker 1: storage with one or more personal belongings wallets, keys, clothing, etcetera, 842 00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:58,200 Speaker 1: and seventy four included jewelry and or watches. For some reason, 843 00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,799 Speaker 1: the NYPD has refused to release a catalog of the belongings, 844 00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:05,120 Speaker 1: even to victim family members. I filed a record's request 845 00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:08,600 Speaker 1: seeking a list, index, and or images of the unidentified 846 00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:13,080 Speaker 1: invoices that include jewelry and watches, but the NYPD denied 847 00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:17,279 Speaker 1: my request, citing privacy concerns. I appealed the denial. The 848 00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:21,160 Speaker 1: NYPD denied my appeal at that point. Well, here's part 849 00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:24,040 Speaker 1: of an email I sent. Quote the denial of my 850 00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:29,160 Speaker 1: appeal cites privacy concerns and specifically the necessity of quote 851 00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:34,360 Speaker 1: extensive redactions insofar as they contain personally identifying information. But 852 00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:38,160 Speaker 1: the invoices I'm requesting information about, to my knowledge, concerned 853 00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:41,560 Speaker 1: objects for which owners were never identified. So unless the 854 00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,839 Speaker 1: NYPD was actually able to ide these objects but for 855 00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:48,240 Speaker 1: some reason hasn't notified families, or could I d them 856 00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:51,080 Speaker 1: but hasn't, I don't understand how the supplies here, and 857 00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:53,719 Speaker 1: I don't believe it's irrelevant reason in this case to 858 00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:57,840 Speaker 1: deny my appeal. These objects are by their nature unidentified, 859 00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:00,200 Speaker 1: and to state that there might be a necessity or 860 00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:05,080 Speaker 1: quote extensive redactions insofar as they contain personally identifying information 861 00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:08,520 Speaker 1: would indicate that the NYPD could I D the items, 862 00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:12,480 Speaker 1: but hasn't. For some reason. After that email, the NYPD 863 00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:17,520 Speaker 1: stopped responding in terms of whether or not Snay has 864 00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:21,240 Speaker 1: still alive. I had one final idea to use AI 865 00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:23,799 Speaker 1: to search for her in billions of photos taken after 866 00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:27,799 Speaker 1: nine eleven. I had serious ethical concerns about this, but 867 00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:31,320 Speaker 1: like it or not, the technology is available to nearly anyone. 868 00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:35,000 Speaker 1: First I reached out to clear View AI, a sketchy 869 00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:38,760 Speaker 1: company whose database includes more than three billion images scraped 870 00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:42,560 Speaker 1: from public sources, including social media. I didn't want to 871 00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:44,839 Speaker 1: work with clear View, but at that point they were 872 00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:47,640 Speaker 1: the only company I knew of with such an extensive database, 873 00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:50,680 Speaker 1: and I figured, Okay, well, if they solve this case, 874 00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:53,480 Speaker 1: if they find Snay haa, it's worth it. But they 875 00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:58,040 Speaker 1: never responded. I figured, well that's that. Then, twelve days 876 00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:00,480 Speaker 1: before the show premiered, I read a wash Ington Post 877 00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:03,520 Speaker 1: article about a different company called pim Eyes, which says 878 00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:07,240 Speaker 1: it analyzed more than nine million unique faces via billions 879 00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:10,480 Speaker 1: of photos. The company claims that, unlike clear View, it 880 00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:15,080 Speaker 1: doesn't scrape social media. Nonetheless, vigilante detectives used it to 881 00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:18,040 Speaker 1: track down capital writers. A forty year old German man 882 00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:21,239 Speaker 1: uploaded an image taken seventeen years ago and found a 883 00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:24,440 Speaker 1: recent YouTube video showing him and another man found a 884 00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:27,640 Speaker 1: photo of himself from twenty five years ago. Pim eyes 885 00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:30,920 Speaker 1: is a powerful tool, so I used it first. I 886 00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:35,000 Speaker 1: tested it on myself. I ran six photos taken between 887 00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:40,120 Speaker 1: pim eyes, returned a few images. Only one surprised me, though, 888 00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:42,600 Speaker 1: a photo from a concert I attended in New York. 889 00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,040 Speaker 1: I also tested it by running an image of me 890 00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:49,600 Speaker 1: in a mask taken during COVID. It misidentified me as 891 00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:54,120 Speaker 1: Billie Eilish, so not perfect. Then I turned to snay Haa. 892 00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:57,239 Speaker 1: I ran seven different images of her through pim eyes, 893 00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:00,800 Speaker 1: old photos and the age progression photo, showing what she 894 00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:03,880 Speaker 1: would look like today. I got back anywhere from thirty 895 00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:06,920 Speaker 1: nine to a hundred and sixty one results per image, 896 00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:09,960 Speaker 1: but they were all old photos, nothing new or not 897 00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:13,400 Speaker 1: snay ha though too made me pause and look very closely, 898 00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:17,359 Speaker 1: one from a party in Greece in and one from 899 00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:22,080 Speaker 1: a hospital in Italy. Again definitely not snay ha. Though 900 00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:29,000 Speaker 1: this case can be solved, I've heard from many of you. 901 00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:32,240 Speaker 1: I'm vetting new information, I'll update you in the future. 902 00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:35,480 Speaker 1: For now, though, since we can't find snay Ha yet, 903 00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:38,640 Speaker 1: I want to use this show to highlight something extremely important. 904 00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:41,759 Speaker 1: Mark desire of the o CMI told me he has 905 00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,120 Speaker 1: forty DNA profiles from nine eleven remains that he can't 906 00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:48,879 Speaker 1: match to anyone, meaning forty victims could easily be identified 907 00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:52,480 Speaker 1: if their families provided reference samples. There's also a chance 908 00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:55,080 Speaker 1: that some of the forty profiles belonged to people never 909 00:56:55,120 --> 00:57:00,000 Speaker 1: identified as nine eleven victims, homeless people, undocumented workers, etcetera. 910 00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:03,200 Speaker 1: Up Mark encourages anyone who thinks they're missing loved one 911 00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:05,360 Speaker 1: might have died on nine eleven to contact the o 912 00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:07,719 Speaker 1: c M me. You can call them at two one 913 00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:11,879 Speaker 1: two four four seven to zero three zero. That's two 914 00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:17,560 Speaker 1: one two four four seven two zero three zero. I'd 915 00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:20,120 Speaker 1: like to believe that snay Ha used nine eleven as 916 00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:23,880 Speaker 1: covered to escape and is alive somewhere. It's not necessarily 917 00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:26,520 Speaker 1: what I believe, it's what I want to believe. That 918 00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:29,959 Speaker 1: snay has sent the mysterious postcard saying everyone who knew 919 00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:33,200 Speaker 1: me before nine eleven believes I'm dead. You'll recall that 920 00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:36,760 Speaker 1: Snayhu was born in Kerala, India. Well a few weeks ago, 921 00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:40,480 Speaker 1: a woman named Sajitha, who disappeared eleven years ago, was 922 00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:44,840 Speaker 1: found alive in Kerala. Snay House family wants the world 923 00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:48,200 Speaker 1: to remember her as an undiluted hero, but after talking 924 00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:50,400 Speaker 1: to people who knew snay Ha, I'm not sure that's 925 00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:53,160 Speaker 1: how she would want to be remembered. She was beautiful 926 00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:57,760 Speaker 1: in her complexity, a fascinating character ups and downs. In 927 00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:00,840 Speaker 1: June two thousand one, eighty two days be four eleven, 928 00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:04,080 Speaker 1: she spent a night in jail. That night, she meditated 929 00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:07,640 Speaker 1: with a woman in her cell. Other nights, including September ten, 930 00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:11,320 Speaker 1: she never came home, at least once she returned covered 931 00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:15,160 Speaker 1: in paint. Snay Ha volunteered in Harlem helping single mothers. 932 00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:19,440 Speaker 1: She liked to dance in chaos. She found peace in 933 00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:25,960 Speaker 1: peace chaos. On February one, when nearly two thousand Americans 934 00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:28,760 Speaker 1: died from COVID and eighteen inches of snow fell on 935 00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:32,960 Speaker 1: New York, I walked through Manhattan to ground zero. I'm 936 00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:37,439 Speaker 1: standing right outside the nine eleven Memorial and Museum. Um, 937 00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:39,600 Speaker 1: it's gated off and can't go in right now because 938 00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:42,479 Speaker 1: we're in the middle of a blizzard one hundred feet 939 00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:46,400 Speaker 1: away on panel s sixt six, The name of a Phantom, 940 00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:50,120 Speaker 1: the two thousand, seven hundred and fifty first nine eleven victim, 941 00:58:50,120 --> 00:59:05,400 Speaker 1: snay Haa and Philip. Next week we're going to release 942 00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:08,160 Speaker 1: a special bonus episode. You won't want to miss it, 943 00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:14,960 Speaker 1: so keep an eye on our feed. Homework one. Several 944 00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:17,840 Speaker 1: listeners pointed out that Casey nice Set before he was 945 00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:20,800 Speaker 1: a famous YouTuber, lived on Rector Street near the Trade 946 00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:24,160 Speaker 1: Center and shot video on nine eleven as the attacks unfolded. 947 00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:27,800 Speaker 1: If someone knows Casey or magically Casey, you hear this, 948 00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:30,840 Speaker 1: we'd love to see the full video. Two. If you 949 00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:33,920 Speaker 1: hold sway in New York, find out why the NYPD 950 00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:37,320 Speaker 1: refuses to release a list, index and or photos of 951 00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:41,560 Speaker 1: unidentified nine eleven belongings, even to victim family members. Three 952 00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:44,240 Speaker 1: To the folks who declined to speak with me, I'd 953 00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:46,640 Speaker 1: still love to speak with you. You can reach us 954 00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:49,880 Speaker 1: by phone at one eight three three new Tips that's 955 00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:53,320 Speaker 1: one eight three three six, three nine eight four seven 956 00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:57,720 Speaker 1: seven again one eight three three six three nine eight 957 00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:00,640 Speaker 1: four seven seven, or you can reach us via email 958 01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:03,960 Speaker 1: at tips at iHeart media dot com. That's tips t 959 01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:07,600 Speaker 1: I p S at iHeart Media dot com. Ben Bollen 960 01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:11,200 Speaker 1: is our executive producer, Paul Decan is our supervising producer, 961 01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:14,560 Speaker 1: Chris Brown is our assistant producer, Seth Nicholas Johnson is 962 01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:17,760 Speaker 1: our producer. Sam T. Garden is our research assistant, and 963 01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:21,040 Speaker 1: I'm your host and executive producer John Waalzac. Cover art 964 01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:24,280 Speaker 1: by Pam Peacock. Special thanks to Tamika Campbell at iHeart 965 01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:27,240 Speaker 1: and to Christoph Zapri in New Orleans. Also thank you 966 01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:31,960 Speaker 1: to Mark Desire, Jason April, Doreen, Don Messige, Swollinski, Todd Mazel, 967 01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:36,240 Speaker 1: Ben Sue, Shawn Moore, Jay Aaronson, and ASoP Rock Justice 968 01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:39,360 Speaker 1: Burner j Malone voiced by Mike Smith of New Orleans. 969 01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:42,480 Speaker 1: A shout out to Paul and Chris, our producers who 970 01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:44,360 Speaker 1: helped me report this story on the ground in New 971 01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:47,400 Speaker 1: York during the pandemic, which was difficult, And a shout 972 01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:51,040 Speaker 1: out to my alma mater, unc Asheville. Facial recognition services 973 01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:54,320 Speaker 1: provided by ai H Tech and True Face. Original theme 974 01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:57,680 Speaker 1: music by ASoP Rock. Check out Asop's website at ASoP 975 01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:00,320 Speaker 1: rock dot com. I'd like to dedicate the show to 976 01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:02,840 Speaker 1: three women my Grandma who brought me to the Trade 977 01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:04,840 Speaker 1: Center when I was eleven and a ground zero when 978 01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:08,240 Speaker 1: I was thirteen. My mom and Miss Helen. Miss Helen, 979 01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:11,480 Speaker 1: we love you. You bring us joy every day always. 980 01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:14,600 Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at at john wallzac 981 01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:18,280 Speaker 1: j O n w A l c z a K. 982 01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:21,360 Speaker 1: If you like this show, check out our first season, 983 01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:24,560 Speaker 1: Missing in Alaska, about the nineteen seventy two disappearance of 984 01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:27,680 Speaker 1: two congressmen. Missing on nine eleven is a co production 985 01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:37,200 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Greenfork Media.