WEBVTT - #413 Jason Flom with Rickey Jackson 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:07.520 Ricky Jackson's story, as well as his co defendants, Kwame 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:11.680 Ajamu and Wylie Bridgman, is a terrifying tale that illustrates 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:15.240 just how important and imperative it is to abolish the 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:17.680 death penalty. And when we sat down with Ricky at 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:20.640 the twenty twenty three Innocist Network Conference in Phoenix, Arizona, 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:24.080 we spoke about everything Ricky is doing to spread that message. 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:27.160 We're here at the Innocence Network Conference with the one 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:28.480 and only Ricky Jackson. 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:32.839 We recently did a movie docu drama, Lovely Jackson, and 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:36.240 I've been traveling literally around the world promoting this movie. 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:40.159 But not only that, but you know about criminal justice reform. 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:43.520 Use of this movie is like my segue into those 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:47.440 kind of conversations about reform man, because it's a tragedy 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:51.760 to know that so many lives have been altered through 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:57.000 wrongful convictions and wrongful executions. It effects not only individuals 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:00.600 and victims, it affects eye on tires, society. 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:05.520 So, Ricky, your home never going back. What's life like 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:06.200 for you now? 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:09.119 Well, I taught of myself as being a professional dad. 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:12.720 You know that's my number one primary concern. But I'm 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:16.399 also an entrepreneur. I own a business. My wife owns 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:17.559 several businesses. 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:18.240 You know. 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:19.399 We have a home. 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:23.240 We have two dogs and five kids and a grand baby. 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:25.679 So an apartridge in the par tree and apotridge in 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:26.280 a pear tree. 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:31.839 Give me all the names we have, Juwan, we have Heavenly, 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:35.200 we have Lovely my two year old. We have Shamari, 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:38.119 and our grand baby's name is Royal. 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:39.319 So we got like the. 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:42.000 Brady Bunch thing going on. I wouldn't trade it for 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:42.880 the world. 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:45.480 Make sure you check out Lovely Jackson to put a 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:48.920 visual to our original coverage of Ricky's case starting now 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:54.920 On me nineteenth, nineteen seventy five, two men approach fifty 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:57.600 nine year old Harold Franks outside of a Cleveland, Ohio 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:01.600 grocery store demanding his briefcase. Franks resisted, and the men 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:04.160 clubbed him with a pipe and splashed acid in his 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:07.440 face before shooting him twice in the chest. The shooter 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:10.640 fired into the grocery store as well, hitting co owner 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:15.440 Ann Robinson, who survived. Mister Franks, however, did not. An 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:18.400 eyewitness wrote down the plate number as the assailants sped 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:21.600 off in a green convertible. Despite the plate number and 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:25.080 other compelling leads, police instead focused on the word of 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:27.880 twelve year old Eddie Vernon, who had been bragging about 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:31.120 witnessing the crime from a bus, repeating an alleged rumer 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:34.520 naming Ricky Jackson as well as Wiley and Ronnie Bridgeman 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:38.720 as the assailants. Vernon's classmates and the bus driver denied 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:42.280 even having the vantage point to see the crime during 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:45.400 interviews and then the lineup. When Eddie Vernon tried to 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:48.560 back away from the lie, the investigators threatened to lock 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:51.000 up his parents if he didn't stick to the story. 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:55.640 By ignoring more compelling suspects and instead coercing a child, 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:59.360 the states at Ricky Jackson, as well as Wiley and 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:03.239 Ronnie Bridge to death rout. When the nineteen seventy four 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:05.960 reinstatement of the death penalty in Ohio was struck dout 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:10.120 as unconstitutional in nineteen seventy eight, those condemned between those 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:14.080 years had their senses commuted to life, including Ronnie, Wileye 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:17.720 and Ricky, assuring the possibility of their innocence one day 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:35.520 being recognized. This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction. 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:41.800 Today's story is important in so many ways. The man 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:46.960 who lived through this, well four decades of imprisonment on 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:49.960 the basis of an eyewitness who wasn't there, who was 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:53.720 twelve years old at the time, who was coerced, pressured, 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:58.119 broutbeaten by authorities, the same authorities who overlooked or ignored 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:01.800 evidence pointing to the actual to assailants and what was 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:06.840 a brutal, brutal crime. And I'm very, very honored to 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:10.080 have the man himself, Ricky Jackson. Ricky, thank you for 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:10.840 being here today. 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:13.040 Thank you for having me Jason, I appreciate it. 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:16.240 Thank you. So let's set the stage here. When I 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:18.200 tell you the name of the place where this occurred, 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:21.600 people are probably going to be given some knowing nods 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:25.200 in their car or their home wherever they're listening, because 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:27.680 it feels like every other episode we do is a 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:30.040 wrong for conviction based in Cuyahoga County. 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:33.839 Well, when you look at the number of auxaneries through 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:37.839 Kyahoga County, it justifies the statement you just made. At 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:40.520 least in those times, the police pretty much owned the 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:43.960 prosecutor's office, the coroner's office. 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:47.120 Whatever they sent up the pipeline. Nobody went against the police. 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:51.680 No, that's right. And so your story, as you were 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:55.480 telling me earlier, is important because if it could happen 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:58.400 to you, it can happen to anyone. And when I 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:03.040 say that you lived a relatively normal, peaceful life growing up, 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:05.359 you were only eighteen when this happened. You were still 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:07.760 really a child, let's face it, but you know, turning 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:08.560 into a man. 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:11.560 I mean back in the mid seventies, you know, life 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:14.240 was not as hectic as it is today, and I 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:17.360 was doing the typical eighteen year old stuff. One of 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:20.760 my friends, or Wilie Bridgeman, he had joined the National Guard. 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:23.360 He came home one day on leave. We saw that 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:27.560 uniform and we were so all and impressed and amazed 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:30.479 by that that we immediately set our sights so on 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:32.400 joining the military, you know. 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:36.200 And you joined the Marines, right, And then we're honorably 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:38.120 discharged for medical reasons. 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:41.600 Yes, I was doing a detail and the driver pulled 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:44.120 off before I had a good firm hold on the 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:46.240 back of a dump truck and I fell off, and 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:48.280 my back hasn't been the same. I thought I was 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:50.080 going to be able to get out. We had my 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:53.440 back and re enlist. But in the process of doing that, 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:56.760 Eddie Vernon happened. 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:01.000 Yes, Eddie Vernon happened. That's a help away of putting 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:05.440 it is very direct. It all comes down to this kid, 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:06.920 and I'm talking about he was a kid. He was 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:09.320 twelve years old. I feel that he's a victim in 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:11.400 this as well. I don't know if you share that belief. 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:11.920 I do. 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:14.320 I do, I strongly share that. I mean, he was 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:15.479 a twelve year old kid. 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:18.920 Yeah, and at twelve years old, we know how easily 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:21.200 influenced you can be and how easily scared you can 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:24.120 be at that age. And then a lie just grows 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:29.599 into something you can't control. Yeah, it grows horns and 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:33.200 it gets worse and worse. So Eddie Vernon, was he 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:35.920 just a kid from the neighborhood. Did you guys know him? 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:39.080 He used to be a paperboy at one time. I 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:41.320 remember when I used to come home from school to 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:43.919 have lunch in the winter time. He will be sitting 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.479 at our kitchen table. My mother would like give him 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:49.440 soup and a grilled cheese sandwich or something like that 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:52.800 because it was so cold outside. Before he continued on 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:55.800 with his route. I mean because of our age difference. 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:58.159 I never, you know, hung out with him and anything, 0:06:58.279 --> 0:06:59.960 but I knew his family. 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:04.279 The crime itself, this is a crime that happened on 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:08.320 May nineteenth and nineteen seventy five when fifty nine year 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:11.440 old Harold Franks, who was a money order salesman, where 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:14.480 he was leaving a grocery store on Fairhill Road in Cleveland, Ohio, 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:18.640 when two men approached him. The men confronted mister Franks 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:21.920 and demanded his briefcase. And this is where it gets 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:25.600 really crazy. When Franks resisted, they clubbed him in the 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:28.400 head with a pipe and splashed acid in his face. 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:31.320 What kind of sick people of these? And one of 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:34.640 the men then shot him twice in the chest and 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:38.240 fired a shot through the store's glass front door, hitting 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:41.440 fifty eight year old Ann Robinson, who was the co 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:43.600 owner of the store. She was shot at the neck, 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:48.760 but somehow miraculously survived. Mister Franks tragically did not. The 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:51.880 two robbers fled with the briefcase, remember I said, two 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:55.440 robbers containing four hundred and twenty five dollars and some 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:58.040 blank money orders, and they escaped in a green car 0:07:58.240 --> 0:07:59.760 that was parked down the street. Did you have a 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:00.440 green car. 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:06.440 By the way, No, never, I didn't even own a car. 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:08.680 Okay man so so and by the way, the three 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:11.440 guys convicted for a crime. The two guys committed that 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:15.000 that's just one little fraction of the problems with this case. 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:16.080 Right fight out. 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:17.360 As we go along. 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:20.960 May nineteenth, the crime had just happened not two hundred 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:23.240 feet from where we lived, the three of us, and so, 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:27.280 you know, we saw people gradually going towards the fair 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:31.320 Hill area, and so we asked, like, what's going on, 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:33.319 you know, and they're like, somebody just. 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:34.640 Got killed up at the store. 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:37.360 We didn't have nothing to do at the particular time, 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:40.040 so we decided to go up there and be lucky 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:42.920 lose as well. We got up there, and by the 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:45.520 time we reached the location, the police were up there. 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:48.559 There were TV cameras out there, the police had the 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:51.480 area cordoned off, and there was a body with a 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:56.720 sheet laying askew. And I saw Eddie Vernon at the 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:59.679 scene at a crime and he was looking around like 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:03.400 everybody else was. And so we stayed up there for 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:07.880 a prosequently fifteen to twenty five minutes, and we left. 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:13.840 The investigation involved detectives Eugene Terpe and James Farmer, as 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:16.920 well as numerous others. They had the license plate number 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:20.000 of the green escape car. This case came with instructions 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:23.640 that escape car belonged to a guy named Ishmael Hickson, 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:26.400 and they were also pointed this is I mean when 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:30.000 I read this, my head about exploded. Okay, so get 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:33.920 this everyone. They were also pointed in the direction of 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:39.839 Paul Gardenshire, whose own mother contacted the store owner and 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:43.600 the police to report that her son had a gun 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:46.720 and that she believed that he was involved in the shooting. 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:48.880 Oh my god. 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:51.720 The same caliber gun, mind you, of the gun that 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:53.400 was used to kill mister Franks. 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:57.760 The guy's freaking mother came forward. And then another informant 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:02.560 also implicated Gardenship, who said that he stole his grandfather's 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:05.360 thirty eight caliber gun, which was the murder weapon, and 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:08.480 was driving around in a convertible that was, yes, you 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:12.160 guessed it green in color, and that was the escape car. 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:15.559 These details were not public knowledge at the time, right, 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:20.560 so this is inside information. And Officer Terpe found the 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:24.200 green convertible exactly where the informant said it would be. 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:25.240 I'm getting the chills. 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:27.960 Now, there were a lot of viable suspects. 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:31.520 The FBI even got in contact with the Cleveland Police 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:34.280 Department and told them that you need to be looking at. 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:35.160 These guys right here. 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:39.079 They have anmo of throwing liquids in people's faces when 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:42.560 they round them, you know, and you know, the police 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:46.240 for a time went down this road. But when you 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:49.080 got a twelve year old boy saying that he was 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:52.880 an actual eyewitness, you know they're not going to spend 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.640 on that time chasing these leads of what might have 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.040 been when we got an actual witness. 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:02.400 And of course she referring to Eddie Vernon, who had 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:05.440 he actually seen anything? And had you and the bridgeman's 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:08.400 actually been the culprits, he could have pointed you out 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:10.400 to the police when you were all at the scene 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:12.920 right after the crime had occurred. But the fact is 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:17.000 he hadn't seen anything, as he admitted so many long 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:19.720 years later, he was actually on the bus with a 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:21.720 bunch of his classmates at the time of the crime. 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:25.880 They all heard the gunshots, but none of them had 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:29.439 a vantage point to see anything. It was not possible 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:32.720 for them to see the crime, not even the bus driver, 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:35.480 who would have had the best view. So from what 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:37.760 I understand, there was a rumor that you and the 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:40.440 Bridgemans may have been involved. We don't know how this 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:44.000 river got started. Maybe there wasn't even a rumor at all. 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:47.520 Maybe your name came from the cops. Either way, it's 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:49.480 hard to know. But how the hell does Eddie end 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:53.320 up as a target of police coercion and get forced 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:56.240 into making a statement implicating you as well as Wiley 0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:57.319 and Ronnie Bridgeman. 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:01.040 Edward Vernon was running around the neighborhood telling people that 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:03.679 he had saw the whole crime and he knew who 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:07.800 did it, and so, you know, eventually this got back 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.120 to the gentleman that owned the store where the crime 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.880 took place, and so he tracked Edward Burning down, took 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:16.200 him back to the store and started grilling him, like, 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:18.840 if you saw who did this, you need to tell us. 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:22.640 And so the store owner got the police involved, and 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.120 then the police started putting the screws in Eddie burning 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:29.920 But upon talking to this twelve year old boy, even 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:33.040 for a rookie police officer, it would have been easy 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:35.560 to tell that this kid was fabricating a lot of shit. 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:38.679 You know, Yeah, I mean this is probably an insecure 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:40.640 kid who wanted to be the center of attention, so 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:43.240 he went out and told people he had seen the crime. Well, 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:45.959 and that's what started this whole snowball effect. And then 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:49.120 the police get this tunnel vision and they decide that 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:51.800 they don't really care about investigating the crime. In fact, 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:55.480 when they did investigate the crime with investigation, they did. 0:12:56.080 --> 0:13:00.480 They collected physical evidence from the scene, but inconveniently, none 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:04.560 of it matched you, Ronnie or Wiley. So the evidence 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:07.480 that they did have, which again should have been the 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:09.840 giant red flag ding ding ding ding thing that should 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:12.600 have been it, right, all of that evidence pointed to 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:15.959 other people, including the license plate number of the green 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:18.520 escape car which they had. 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:21.880 I mean, and all these people had arm robbery on 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:22.840 the rap seats. 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:26.720 So no other investigation was conducted into these or any 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:30.400 other leads. Once Eddie Vernon came forward, all the other 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:35.600 investigations stopped and they focused on you three guys with 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:37.880 absolute total tunnel vision. 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:41.079 They pretty much kidnapped this kid, you know, and they 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:43.760 told his parents if they ever tried to get involved 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:46.680 or ever tried to stop them from coming to get Edward, 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:50.520 that they would prosecute them. They had complete and total 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:54.160 control of this twelve year old kid, and so this 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:58.480 began the process of molding Eddie Vernon from a liar 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:02.520 and to a lying witness. They pretty much had to 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:05.400 build this case and give Edward burning information as they 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:09.400 went along, which is why his testimony and his statement 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:13.040 changed from day to day, you know, because they were 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:15.720 feeding him information. He didn't see what happened, and so 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:19.200 he had to create something and they kept the pressure 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:22.560 on it. Fast forward a few days later, the three 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:25.040 of us were coming home from a party. Was about 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:28.720 one o'clock at night, and my dad had this policy 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:32.000 when he locks his doors at night, all in ain't 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:34.760 getting in, you know, so it wasn't not common for 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:36.880 me to, you know, go sleep at the Bridgeman's house, 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.520 who stayed just a couple of houses down for me. Anyway, 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:43.760 just as I was knotted off, I saw lights going 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:46.520 by my window, you know, flashlights, and before I could 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:50.640 get my whereabouts together, the door was exploded. 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:53.560 In the room was filled with police. 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:57.200 Officers who with guns lights, and they were shouting my 0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:00.360 name and was shouting at Bridgeman's names. They at me 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.480 first because I was right there on the couch in 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:04.480 the front room where the door was kicked in. So 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:08.400 they grabbed me, threw me to the floor, knees in 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:11.200 the black handcuffed me, asking me what were the bridgeman's 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:13.560 at And I was so confused. I didn't know what 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:15.480 to say because I was horrified. I mean, it was 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:18.800 just like a total shock. But by the time they 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:21.800 drugged me outside and had me on top of a 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:25.080 police car, I could look down the street and see 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:34.640 my entire family. I could see my entire family stressed 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:38.400 out in the street, and every one of them had 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:40.160 a shotgun pointed at their heads. 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:57.600 This episode is underwritten by global law firm Greenbrook Traric 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:01.160 through its pro bono program. Greenberg t leverages it's more 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:04.040 than twenty four hundred lawyers across forty two offices to 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:07.040 serve the greater good of our communities and provide equal 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:10.560 access to justice for all. In the field of criminal justice, 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:14.800 Greenbrook Triwery attorneys have exonerated in freedomand in Philadelphia, represent 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:18.000 numerous individuals previously sentenced to life for crimes committed as 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:22.040 juveniles and resentencing hearings, and received the American Bar Association's 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:25.560 twenty twenty one Exceptional Service Award for Death Penalty Representation 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:29.360 for their work on five death penalty cases. GT is 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:32.800 reimagining what big law can be because a more just 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:34.920 world only happens by design. 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:44.480 It became obvious to me that they had hit my 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:48.240 house first en route to the Brisma's house, and they 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:50.840 finally got the Brismans out of the house, and I mean, 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:52.800 we will still just totally in shock. 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:55.280 We didn't know what the hell did we do. We 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:56.600 had just came from a party. 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:58.840 There was no incident at the party, so we are 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:02.640 totally confused as to what's going on, not knowing that 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:06.399 this is all related to that man having got killed 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:08.200 a couple of days earlier up at Fair Hill. 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:10.760 We didn't know this at the time. We had no clue. 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:16.360 We get downtown the next morning, we go into a lineup, 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:19.200 they do their thing. 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:20.560 They let us out. 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:25.600 Unbeknownst to us at the time, Eddie Bernon was standing 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:29.199 behind that two way glass and he refused, he couldn't 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:34.720 pick anybody. He didn't pick anybody, and so the police 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:38.000 never told us we were free to go. Instead, they 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:40.760 took Edward Vernon in the back room, a twelve year 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:44.360 old boy unescorted by a parent or a lawyer, took 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:46.400 him back in the back room and they threatened him. 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:49.600 They told him that they couldn't do nothing to him 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:52.359 because he was a kid, but if he didn't pick 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:56.080 us out in that lineup, Ricky Jackson and Wally Bridgman 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:59.119 and Ronnie Bridgeman, that they would make sure that he 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:02.120 never saw his mom and dad again. They were sending 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:05.080 his mom and dad to prison for a long time 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:07.840 because he started this process. 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:08.440 And now he had to finish it. 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:12.600 And so while we were outside in the common area 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:15.440 making a phone call to call our folks and say, well, 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:18.160 you know, they haven't told us anything, so I guess 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:21.680 you can come and get us, he points us out 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:24.480 while we're out in the common room with hundreds of 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:28.560 other people prisoners or whatever, making phone calls, and a 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:31.040 couple hours later, they called us and told us that 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:34.720 we had been indicted for murder and they were seeking 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:38.880 the death penalty. And that's when we found out that 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:43.000 Edward Vernon was a kid that was saying that he 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:47.119 has saw us do this. It was just mind boggling 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:50.120 because my mind instantly went back to that day when 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:53.240 I saw him standing there at the scene of the crime, 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:57.040 like everybody else in the neighborhood, you know, and like, 0:18:57.119 --> 0:18:59.080 why wouldn't you say to the police, because there was 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:00.119 plenty of police. 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:01.120 That's him right. 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:06.520 There, because Eddie Vernon never saw a freaking thing nothing. 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:09.960 He just told a lie like many little kids do. 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:13.879 And then he got roped into repeating that lie in 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:17.359 an arena where the stakes were well life and death 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:21.439 and so on May twenty fifth, nineteen seventy five, You, 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:26.080 Wiley and Ronnie were all charged with aggravated murder, aggravated 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:29.440 attempted murder, as well as aggravated robbery, and the trial 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:33.560 started that August. You guys went to trial. The prosecution's 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.520 case rested, well, there was nothing else other than the 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:39.280 testimony of this little kid who is now thirteen. His 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:41.840 testimony was all over the place. He initially told the 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:43.560 cops that he was on the bus coming home from 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:46.080 school when he saw two men attacked mister Franks as 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:47.560 he got out of his car walked the store. But 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:50.320 a trial, Eddie testified that he had already gotten off 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:51.879 the bus when he saw the attack, and that the 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:54.400 attack occurred as Frank's emerged from the store. So very 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:56.720 very different than what he originally said. That should have 0:19:56.760 --> 0:19:59.479 been a huge flag there as well. Ann Robinson meanwhile 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:01.840 testify the woman who was shot in the neck that 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:04.600 she had been shot by a bullet that came to 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:07.280 the store's front door, but she was unable to identify 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:10.360 the robbers understandably so. And a sixteen year old neighborhood 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:13.560 girl testified for the defense, saying that she walked into 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:15.720 the store just before the attack and saw two, not 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:18.080 three men outside the store, and that neither of the 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:21.560 two men or any of you three guys. Very brave 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:24.960 young girl. Several of Eddie Vernon's classmates testified that he 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:26.960 was on the bus with them when they heard the 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:29.480 gun shots, but that none of them were able to 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:30.440 see the robbers. 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:33.680 During the course of our three separate trials, we had 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:38.480 nearly every kid on that bus testify in our behalf 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:41.479 about what they saw where the bus was at that time, 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:44.560 and there was like ten or twelve kids saying the 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:47.800 same thing. You know, he couldn't have possibly seen it. 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:50.120 We were all on the bus together. He didn't get 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:52.040 out before we got all we got off at the 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:55.600 same stop, and the bus driver, he's got the best 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:58.960 seat in the house, you know, but he didn't see anything. 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:02.119 But it was so easy to inflame an all white 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:05.040 jewry when you got a black person accused of killing 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:08.280 a white person. You know, anything you have to say 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:11.359 on your behalf now really not listening to that, you know, 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:14.400 Let's just get to the park where we execute this dude. 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:14.840 You know. 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:20.040 And that's pretty much what my trial balled down to, 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:24.879 you know. I mean a judge even said during a 0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:28.600 recess that he didn't believe the state witness for one minute. 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:33.719 But I'm not gonna take the power out of jury's hands. 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:37.480