1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Gradios How Stuff Works. Hello, welcome 5 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: back to the show. My name is Matt, my name 6 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: is Noel. They called me Ben. We are joined with 7 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: our guest super producer TRII. So reach out and say hi. 8 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,319 Speaker 1: Most importantly, you are you. You are here, and that 9 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: makes this stuff they don't want you to know a 10 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: bit of a history episode for us. You guys, we 11 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: have in the past explored lost civilizations. When we've explored 12 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,919 Speaker 1: lost cities. Uh spoiler alert, by the way, there are 13 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: tons and tons of them around spoiler alert, we've spoiled 14 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: Lost and gotten yelled at about it. That's true, that's true. 15 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: That's the thing that happened. I think Lost spoils itself 16 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: at the end. Think that's fair. I don't want to 17 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: throw pot shots at it. But it's a great show. 18 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: It really is. But then they remade it into a 19 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:09,839 Speaker 1: more fun version and now it's called The Good Place. 20 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: You know, you're right, man, never thought about that connection. 21 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: But it is kind of not only is it more fun. 22 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: It's just like a better show and knows where it's going, 23 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: you know, and they have, but they do still wrestle 24 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: with some of the same philosophical quandaries, and I think 25 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: that's an excellent comparison. Um. One thing that the Good 26 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: Place does not have that Lost does have it is 27 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: a collection of inexplicable ruins. You know what I mean? 28 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 1: We all look. I'm gonna spoil it because it's one 29 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 1: of the coolest part the hatches spoiler countdown three to one? 30 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: Where's the body? Why? Why are there really four toes? 31 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: Spoiler alert? You never find out. They will never tell you, 32 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: but but it turns out that they're leaving the show. 33 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: Careers have lost their cleaving closer to the truth than 34 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: you might imagine. The US is often um explained in 35 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: the following way. In comparison to Europe. They'll say in Europe, 36 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,799 Speaker 1: two hundred miles is a long way. In the US, 37 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: two hundred years is a long time. And we often 38 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: think about this country in terms of the beginning of 39 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: migration across the ocean, right, so we don't think of 40 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: all the people who crossed over the bearing straight in 41 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: ancient times. We don't think of the pre Columbian cultures 42 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: that rose and fell. We think of, you know, Cristo 43 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: baal Colombo selling the Ocean Blue. He sold the Ocean Blue. 44 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: I completely agree, Cristo bal Colombo. Cristo bal Cologne. Okay. 45 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: I was like, I'm not aware of this pronunciation. It's 46 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: a it's a new series that day in Lindoff and 47 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: I and J. J. Abrams are working on. Yeah, and 48 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 1: he's just a detective. He's going around looking at land. 49 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: He's like a he's a purveyor of land. Like he 50 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: looks at the land and he turns and walks away, 51 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: and then he says, actually more to this land than 52 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: meets the eye. And my wife and what, yeah, it's 53 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: your wife, and uh, a bunch of native people right 54 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:26,519 Speaker 1: right in this in this idea, of course, Christobal Colombo 55 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 1: is solving the crimes that he himself commits. There we 56 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: go easy. It's it's essentially memento comparisons have been made. 57 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: But right, it would be it would be apt for 58 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: this fictional character to look at the land, turn around 59 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: and come back and say, actually, there's a lot more 60 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: to it, to your example. And well, because for a 61 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: long long time we were sold a myth in this country. 62 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: We being the people of what we call the United States, 63 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: we were told that there was this vast, sparsely populated 64 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: continent rich in all sorts of resources. You want timber boom, 65 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: you want salmon boom, All you have to do is 66 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: go out there in the frontier and capture it. It's 67 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: waiting for you, right right, manifest that destiny. For centuries, 68 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: the history of North America was largely ignored or actively 69 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: suppressed by European powers exploring and colonizing the continent. Nations 70 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: on the eastern side of the Atlantic overwhelmingly depicted North 71 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 1: America this way a land of exoticism and opportunity, and 72 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: they ardently and purposely suppressed the fact that this continent 73 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 1: was already home to a massive assortment of sophisticated, pre 74 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: existing cultures who would have been just fine without European 75 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: intervention and all the disease and degradation that it brought 76 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: along with it. So, if this myth of empty North 77 00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 1: America is indeed false, what do we know about out it? Like? 78 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: What are the facts? Oh sure? I mean, prior to 79 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 1: any Europeans showing up on North American land, there were 80 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: a hundred and twelve million people already living somewhere on 81 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 1: the continent. And you know, lower estimates do range to 82 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: as little as eight million people from that twelve million, 83 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 1: So there is a range because it's not known the 84 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 1: exact number of people. There's no census, there's no any 85 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: way of telling how many different people's You can you 86 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 1: can tell how many different um well, at least close 87 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: to however, many different um cultures essentially exist just from 88 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 1: finding things, but knowing the exact number of people is 89 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: very very difficult, right, right. The one thing we do 90 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: know is that there were millions of people, and they 91 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: weren't all just sort of strolling around. So as many 92 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: as one are in twelve million people in fourteen ninety two, 93 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 1: but by sixteen fifty that population had already plummeted to 94 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 1: less than six billion. The people living at the heights 95 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: of pre European history had extensive trade networks, they had 96 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: rich cultural lives, they had cities, they had internal and 97 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 1: external warfare, conflict cooperation, all the things that Europe was doing, 98 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:20,359 Speaker 1: and they had dense urban areas, which is something that 99 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: may surprise a lot of people listening. Right. Normally, when 100 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: you think of pre European populations, we think of people 101 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 1: living am perhaps nomadic existence in some areas of the continent. 102 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: We think of um complex cave dwellings perhaps, but we 103 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 1: don't we don't think of a London, you know, we 104 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: don't think of a Berlin. So at least an early 105 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 1: version of that with structures and highly organized society existing 106 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,359 Speaker 1: within these structures. So we would like to introduce you 107 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:00,160 Speaker 1: to one of the largest known pre European city is 108 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: in the on the continent at the time, a place 109 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: called Cohokio. So in its prime, about four centuries before 110 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: our boy Colombo uh stumbled onto the Western hemisphere, um 111 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: walked away and then decided to come back, and you know, 112 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: dig a little deeper, Uh. Cahokia was a prosperous pre 113 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: American city with a population very similar to London. Um. 114 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: Archaeological data showed that agricultural settlements first appeared in the 115 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: area around four a d. And then in ten fIF 116 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: D you had a boom population boom at Cokia, which 117 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: became a major political and cultural center, with the population 118 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: booming into the tens of thousands. Yeah, and you know, 119 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: when you think about something like this, it's hard to 120 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: imagine that it could exist anywhere near current civilization. Right. Oh, 121 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: that must be out in the middle of nowhere somewhere, right, 122 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: because we would know all about that. We would people 123 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,040 Speaker 1: in the United States would travel there to explore the 124 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: remains or something. Right. But no, it was located very 125 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: close to present day St. Louis. Yeah, it's about eight 126 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: miles out of St. Louis. It's located in southern Illinois. 127 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: This was, by all measures that we can find, the 128 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: largest North American city north of Mexico. At the time. 129 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: It had been built by a group of people known 130 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: as the Mississippians. These were native people who occupied a 131 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: large swath of the present day southeastern US from the 132 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: Mississippi River to the shores of the Atlantic. This city, 133 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: go Hokia, was sophisticated, it was cosmopolitan. But today its 134 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: history is virtually unknown, not to just most of the 135 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 1: current US residents, but even two people who live in 136 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 1: the area, present day residents of Illinois, Illinoisians. Illinoisians. Oh, no, 137 00:08:56,080 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: I hope that's not Illinois. Not worth it. Just throw 138 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: us in the it's This is one of those stories 139 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 1: that was bypassed in favor of that dominant narrative that 140 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: we see reinforced in literature, we see reinforced in um 141 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: in cinema, right, And it's the idea that the people 142 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: who lived here before Europeans ever arrived were somehow uh 143 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: less learned, which is clearly not the case. And there's 144 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: a guy named Thomas Emerson, a professor of anthropology at 145 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: the University of Illinois, who had an interesting quote. A 146 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: lot of the world, he says, is still relating in 147 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: terms of cowboys and you know, quote unquote Indians with 148 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: feathers and tps and whatnot. But in a D one thousand, 149 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: from the beginning coke, it was laid out to a 150 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: specific plan. It doesn't grow into a plan. It starts 151 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 1: as a plan with a purpose. They created the most 152 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:59,479 Speaker 1: massive earthen mound in North America. Where does that come from? 153 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: It's a good question, it's a really good question. And 154 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: weirdly enough, we're looking for cities to compare this to. 155 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 1: We'll hear that it bore some similarities to London, right, 156 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: but in some ways it was like Manhattan. Yeah, it's true. 157 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: It was home to multiple groups of people from across 158 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: the lands of the Mississippians. UM groups included the Natchez, 159 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: the Pensacola, the Choctaw, the o Fo my personal favorite. 160 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: I don't know because I've never really heard the name before, 161 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: and I like saying o Fo. It's fun. Archaeologists conducting 162 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: strontium tests on the teeth of buried remains have found 163 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 1: that a third of the population was not from Kakia, 164 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: but somewhere else. And this is according to Emerson, who 165 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: is the director of the Illinois State Archaeological Survey. Yeah, 166 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: we know that the residents of this city, the people 167 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: who lived in the city center and the people who 168 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:57,079 Speaker 1: lived on the outskirts, they did city people things that 169 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: we have forensic traces, archaeological evidence really of their farming, trading, 170 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: and hunting efforts. And we know that they also had 171 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: urban planners. And these urban planners used astronomical alignments to 172 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: lay out a low scale metropolis that ranged, as you said, 173 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: ment from ten to twenty thousand people. And they planned 174 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,559 Speaker 1: it again from the beginning. The cities between six and 175 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 1: nine square miles in area. Inside its borders. As close 176 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: as we can estimate, there about a hundred and twenty 177 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: earthen mounds. And one thing we know for sure is 178 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:40,439 Speaker 1: the mound building technology was pretty demanding. This was backbreaking work. 179 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 1: We're talking about stacking. We're digging first off, digging, hauling 180 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: and stacking because these are these mounds are underground dwellings 181 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: or structures. Essentially, it's like a place to go into, right, 182 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 1: It's a h when you when you imagine it. Um, 183 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,559 Speaker 1: I guess in your and I think it is been 184 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: because of the um growing up, I guess being shaped 185 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 1: sometimes by these European ideas of what the United States is. 186 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: You don't even have a real understanding of what a 187 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: mound is when we're talking about them, you know, like 188 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,319 Speaker 1: and just talking about how difficult it is to create 189 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: a single dwelling place or a building that would be 190 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 1: used for any kind of function, Like it's You're absolutely right, 191 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: how difficult that would be. A lot of these are 192 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: tombs as well, and by hand. This community stacked fifty 193 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: five million cubic feet of earth and they, as far 194 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 1: as we know, they did it just using woven baskets 195 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: to transport it. The largest mound, which is later called 196 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: the Monks Mound after the French Trappists who attended to 197 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: it in the eighteen hundreds, was the site of a 198 00:12:56,040 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 1: sizeable building where the city's political and spiritual leaders met. 199 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: It was surrounded by a wooden palisade almost two miles 200 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: in circumference. The town center was where residents, pilgrims, and 201 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: leaders worshiped and held ceremonies, which will be very important 202 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: later on. Right now, if we picture the city, think 203 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: of it the way that you know, a lot of 204 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 1: modern cities are. There's a downtown area, and a lot 205 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: of people will travel there for work, for leisure, Liza, 206 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: or you know, maybe to attend certain events, cultural events, 207 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: but just in a short term, essentially, right, they won't 208 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: live there, you know. So this city is no different. 209 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: Most of the Mississippians live on the other side of 210 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 1: this palisade, in these single room homes you were talking about, 211 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: Matt the rectangular about fifteen ft long, twelve feet wide. 212 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,199 Speaker 1: We know, we know this based on what we were 213 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 1: able to dig up, the wooden post walls covered with mats, 214 00:13:55,800 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: thatched roofs. Far from being a collection of villages or campsite, 215 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,599 Speaker 1: they were linked with their own network of courtyards and pathways, 216 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: kind of the way streets are laid out, and and 217 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: and you know, there would be physical connections, like you're 218 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: saying that actually connect everything together. The different individual homes 219 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: have that feeling. It's it's um again, so un characteristic 220 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: of the way sometimes it's depicted or away. Maybe we 221 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: imagine in our minds of what a Native American city 222 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: could be like. So we've laid out a bit of 223 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: the architecture, we've laid out a bit of this street planning, 224 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: We've learned a little bit about the inhabitants. This leads 225 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: us to the next question, where is Kahokia now? Nowadays 226 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: there's nothing. There's a series of mounds right yep, and 227 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: there's a I mean, that's that's about it. There's some 228 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: ruins and maybe a little bit of evidence left that 229 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: there was human the activity that occurred in and around 230 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: these mounts, because you see the metropolis of Cohokia, thousands 231 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: and thousands of people, as near as we can tell, 232 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: one day, disappeared by thirteen fifty, was largely abandoned by 233 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: its people, and even today in no one knows why. 234 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: And we're going to find out at least what we 235 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: know at this point. After a quick word from our sponsor, 236 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: here's where it gets crazy. Well, but first of all, 237 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: let's say, let's talk about what we know. It wasn't 238 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: that caused the disappearance of all the humans at Cokia. Uh, 239 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: not the usual suspects things like war or maybe a 240 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: disease that came through, because some Europeans came through, because 241 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: we're talking thirteen fifty before two, right before some of 242 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: the earlier early landings, So we don't we know it's 243 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: not that and European conquest doesn't have anything with it. 244 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: Nobody came through like um, you know Hernando de Soto, 245 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: because this guy was probably the first person to actually 246 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: make it to Coo Kia, right, and he didn't arrive 247 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: until fifteen forty. That's crazy, almost two hundred years after 248 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: it had just been you know, disappeared. He looks like 249 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: he snoozed and he losed, I guess. So yeah, it's 250 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: true by the time De Soto and Co. Would have 251 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: which is another show that we're pitching on this De 252 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: Soto and yeah, Yeah, we're doing a shared universe of 253 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: European explorers and we're we're adapting, we're adapting it to 254 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: modern taste. So we've got our detective show Christobal Colombo, Uh, 255 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: de Soto and co. Is what is that it's like 256 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: a buddy comedy, I want to say, and Co being 257 00:16:56,320 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: like maybe his faithful man servants. Very tell us who 258 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 1: should play these roles? By the way, you know, there's 259 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: a lot of talent out there. I think Matt Barry 260 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: would make a really good De Soto. Oh yes, I 261 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: could see that. Who could be who could be? Faithful 262 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 1: man servants? M Well, let's let's give this the time 263 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: it deserves. Let's think about that, Let's let it marinate 264 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: a little bit, and let's make some T shirts. And 265 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: let's make some T shirts. Yes, yes, surely Matt Barry 266 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: will be fine with that. I went, yeah, No, I'm no. 267 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: I'm wondering, who's like a hot TV actor? Now? I 268 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: don't people like that show Scandal a lot? Who's in that? 269 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: I don't know either. I don't watch TV anymore. Let 270 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 1: us know, let us know who is on TV? Who 271 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:48,479 Speaker 1: is who is on TV? Today? And would they be 272 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:52,680 Speaker 1: a good co for De Soto and Co. It's strange though, 273 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: because he would have seen this empire in decline. He 274 00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:01,360 Speaker 1: would not have seen the glory days, the vast parades, right, 275 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: the grand ceremonies, the hunting parties. He would have instead 276 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: seen ruins and mounds. Many of the civilizations, villages the Mississippians, 277 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: were established near trade routes or sources of water and food. 278 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: But Cookia, like Atlanta, was different. It had plenty of resources, 279 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,199 Speaker 1: but it was not built on ideal land. What we 280 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: mean when we say Cookia was similar to Atlanta is 281 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: the following picture. In your country or your neck of 282 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: the global woods, the biggest cities, the biggest cities in 283 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: your area. In many cases, if you're talking about the 284 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 1: biggest cities in the country, they will be built along 285 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,919 Speaker 1: sources of water. You know they'll be There will be 286 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: a city by the bay. There will be a city 287 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 1: by a river, right, things like that, a city by 288 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: a gigantic lake, coast or a coast exactly. And in 289 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: the case of Atlanta, there is a river called the 290 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: Chattahoochee that is in the area. But our real transports 291 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: are real sources of transit are man made, the world's 292 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: busiest airport. That's a river of people and goods. Um 293 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 1: We still have train lines, those for a long time 294 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: replace the role of rivers. Cookia did have a ton 295 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: of resources, timber, fish, all that all that jazz. Thanks 296 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: to their position around these two rivers in their area. 297 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: But they were built on land that was prone to flooding, 298 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 1: which makes us wonder why build something there at all, 299 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: much less a teeming metropolis. Well, there seems to be 300 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: at least somewhat of an explanation, and it has to 301 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: do with being able to travel from various places easily, 302 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,199 Speaker 1: especially if you were to get on the water to 303 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: travel to this place, almost as if it was meant 304 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 1: be a place to go. Uh, in the same way 305 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: that the downtown was set up, almost like something that 306 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: you temporarily go to and then leave and go back home. 307 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: Like the entire city was that almost a pilgrimage city 308 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: where all the Mississippians could gather for big events, a destination, right, yeah, yeah, 309 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. So according to Emerson, again, it may 310 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: have been a good area to explore, but not so 311 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 1: good to live in because you know, flooding. Yeah, no, 312 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: nobody likes that. So something changed around a D one thousand. 313 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: According to Emerson's that boom we mentioned earlier, it becomes 314 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 1: this major city center. But most of the change doesn't 315 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: have to do with the economy, at least according to 316 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: the experts. Now most of it has to do with 317 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: what we could in general call religion. So we don't 318 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 1: know a lot of the specifics, but we do know 319 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 1: that the city may have been built primarily for these 320 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: sacred gatherings and ceremonies. What do we mean when we 321 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 1: say sacred gatherings and ceremonies, We don't mean it's all pretty. Yeah. So, 322 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: archaeological work has also uncovered amount containing mass burials. Um. 323 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: While the extent of this is still being debated, it 324 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: appears that the Mississippians may have conducted a little bit 325 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 1: of light ritual human sacrifice, just to touch a dash 326 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: of human sacrifice. Um. And that is judging by what 327 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 1: appears to be Okay, it's not so light. Hundreds of people, 328 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: mostly young women, buried in these mass graves. Uh. Some 329 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 1: of them were likely strangled, others possibly were bled out. Um. 330 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 1: Four men were found with their heads and hands cut 331 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 1: off another burial pit, mostly males, had been clubbed to death, 332 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: and researchers have found no specific evidence of any kind 333 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 1: of influence of warfare or invasion from outsiders. Yeah. Yeah, 334 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: I mean that's that's rough. And that's again why why 335 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:15,120 Speaker 1: Ben was saying something you could consider religion. Right, it's 336 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: not necessarily belief that was held by everyone. But there 337 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 1: was at least a group of people at that city 338 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: center that was killing people. Well into Noel's point there, 339 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: it is crucial that we recognize these were not Nothing 340 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: indicates that these were prisoners of war, you know what 341 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: I mean, like the hands, the guys with their hands 342 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,639 Speaker 1: cut off and right and all that. Yeah, nothing indicates 343 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 1: that would be a situation similar to Apocalypto or as 344 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: Mesoamerican civilization is portrayed Apocalypto. Do you guys remember that movie? 345 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: I remember it existed, I had not see it. I 346 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,160 Speaker 1: think I've already written off Mel Gibson at that point. 347 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 1: Hadn't he already had some weird racist outburst by then? 348 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: Let's see, you can't remember. It's hard to keep tracking, 349 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: which is sad. Rights he is he made to come back. 350 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think he's just because he is. 351 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: He still canceled. I believe so, you believe so? He 352 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: uh he called some he called some law enforcements and 353 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:18,399 Speaker 1: terrible things. He's pretty virently anti Semitic. Does that mean 354 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: passion of the Christ is canceled too? I don't know. 355 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:25,159 Speaker 1: I still you know that's have you guys seen it? Now? 356 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: I know I never wanted to. I watched the Satan 357 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 1: shows up, so I watched the Satan clips predictably, but 358 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: I haven't seen the whole thing. And uh, me and 359 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,679 Speaker 1: my ex used to sit around and we'd have the DVD. 360 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: This is back when DVDs were a thing, and then 361 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:43,439 Speaker 1: we would always ask ourselves, is tonight the night? You 362 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: know we're making dinner we want to watch? Is this 363 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: the night? Where we watched Passion of the Christ? Not 364 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,479 Speaker 1: exactly a date film, And we went for years asking 365 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 1: ourselves if tonight was the night. Eventually we had planned 366 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: we said, you know what, we're never going to watch this. 367 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,160 Speaker 1: We're going to get a bunch of stickers. That's ay, 368 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: is tonight the night? And then we're gonna go to 369 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: best Buy. We're gonna stick him on Passion of the 370 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 1: Christ e v ds. That's a really good it's pretty funny. 371 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: I mean, is tonight the night? Is a great sticker 372 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,360 Speaker 1: to put on stuff? But you just specifically sought out 373 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: the Satan scenes on YouTube? Yeah, you can't see the 374 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: bludgeoning or the beating or them. And I wanted to 375 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: see how they handled infernal powers, and it was pretty spooky. 376 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 1: Is he just kind of like a grizzled old man. 377 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: It's uh, if I remember correctly, it's a very very pale, hairless, 378 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 1: feminine looking figure. That's pretty cool. I like that. Look 379 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 1: for for the Old Devil. Spooky spooky stuff. But Mel 380 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: Gibson aside. In Apocalypto, you will see depictions of hunting 381 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: parties gathering people from different tribes outside of the city center, 382 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: abducting them and using them as victims of you know, 383 00:24:55,520 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: in a ritual sacrifice. This appears to be a situation 384 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: and wherein the government of the city was sacrificing its 385 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:09,880 Speaker 1: own people, which you know, without it's tricky for us 386 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: to um to ascribe the motives there because we don't 387 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: know why they were doing it. You know, we don't 388 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: know if it was tied to maybe a seasonal or 389 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: a turn of the seasons, or a harvest cycle. We 390 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: don't know if it was meant to be an appeasement 391 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: to some sort of divine force. Maybe you're sacrificing people 392 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: to the river, you know what I mean, I just 393 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: made that up. I don't know. Well, yeah, again, like 394 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: you could, You could feasibly imagine that it would be 395 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 1: too prevent the rivers from flooding again, right from the 396 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: land from flooding. I can totally imagine. That. Doesn't mean 397 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: it is real or actually happened, but I can I 398 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:50,679 Speaker 1: can see why you would want to do that or 399 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: go to those lengths to prevent a massive flood from occurring. 400 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 1: There's another if you pointed out earlier and all that 401 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: these people did not all I in the same manner, right, 402 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 1: So there's another archaeologist, a guy named William is min Germ, 403 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:11,120 Speaker 1: who is the assistant manager at the Kochia Mounds, who 404 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: who posits that there must have, if not involved in sacrifice, 405 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: there must have been some sort of external threat, whether 406 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 1: it was from a local source or whether it was 407 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: from something very far away. Because the city was raised 408 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: and rebuilt four times between eleven seventy five and twelve 409 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: seventy five. So imagine the city, the biggest city close 410 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: to you as you're listening. Imagine that city collapsing and 411 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 1: being rebuilt four times over a hundred years. Right, we 412 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: don't have a ton of cities like that here in 413 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 1: the US. We do have Atlanta, which was burned to 414 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: the ground, right, But that happened once. Okay, I don't 415 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,439 Speaker 1: want to keep harving on this, but is it I 416 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: just wonder if you guys think it's possible that it 417 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: was some kind of massive flooding that would occur, because 418 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 1: I can imagine that happening four times in a hundred years, 419 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: where the entire area floods and you have to rebuild everything. 420 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I can imagine it. It's a good hypothesis, 421 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: you know, because as Majuror is not definitive on his 422 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: opinion on the mysterious collapse of Kahokia, he says, maybe 423 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: they were never attacked, but there was a threat there, 424 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 1: and then leaders felt the need to expend a tremendous 425 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: amount of time, labor, and material to protect this central 426 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: ceremonial area, you know what I mean. And then, as 427 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 1: we said, after reaching its population height ten people in 428 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: about eleven hundred, the population shrinks and BYTT it's gone 429 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,639 Speaker 1: Kaiser Soca style. Did they exhaust lance resources? Were they 430 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 1: victims of social upheaval where they finally attacked, where their droughts? 431 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: Was their climate change or two point matt did the 432 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: waters rise? We'll find out after a quick word from 433 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: our sponsor. Did the waters rise one time too many? 434 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,439 Speaker 1: And that's the question. So to uncover the clues to 435 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:20,880 Speaker 1: the city's fad, a research team led by the University 436 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 1: of Wisconsin Madison geographers Samuel Muno's and Jack Williams performed 437 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 1: laser diffraction particle size analysis on sediment samples from Horseshoe Lake, 438 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,439 Speaker 1: an oxbow lake near Cohoka, and that is as just 439 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: a shape of a type of lake. The samples yielded 440 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: evidence of eight different separate flood events over the past 441 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: two thousand years. Um drought, over exploitation of these resources, 442 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: and human conflict of all been thrown in the mix 443 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: as far as reasons are concerned behind the end of 444 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: Go Hooka. But an earlier study of sediments from Horseshoe 445 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: Lake suggested the major flood had occurred in the area 446 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: around twelve hundred, So that would be right right around 447 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: right after the peak population. Okay, Okay, Now now I'm 448 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: getting a bigger picture about just getting the peak of 449 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: population and then something coming by and it being that 450 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:23,959 Speaker 1: much more catastrophic. Yeah. The team analyzed sediments from another 451 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 1: lake that was a hundred and twenty miles or for 452 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: the rest of the world, KOs downstream of Horseshoe Lake, 453 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: and they found that there was confirmation of some sort 454 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: of catastrophic flood. The Mississippi River rose more than ten 455 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: meters that's thirty three feet, and they believe it played 456 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 1: a critical role in the total abandonment of Kokia within 457 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty years. This kind of stuff is 458 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 1: happening in the modern day, you know what I mean. 459 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: On monsoon planes. There are people who are senually building 460 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: their houses, rebuilding them, evacuating when the waters rise. But 461 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 1: although that is a very strong um set of clues, 462 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: it's not a definitive thing, you know what I mean. 463 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: But we have to say for all intents and purposes, 464 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: at this point, the mystery remains unsolved, and the strongest 465 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: indicator is is probably flooding, that the city became flooded 466 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: one too many times. But whatever the case, Cohokio was 467 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 1: largely ignored by Europeans and later Americans because it didn't 468 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: jibe with that official narrative. It was physical proof of 469 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: a sophisticated, rich, dense urban culture existing for centuries before 470 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: the arrival of Europeans, and its existence was something that 471 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 1: a lot of Europeans didn't want people to know. And 472 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, when Europeans came, a lot 473 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,239 Speaker 1: of native people didn't know what was going on. They 474 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: would say, hey, what's that? What is that gigantic, massive 475 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: series of mounds? And they would shrug and say, I 476 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: don't know, It's always been there. Yeah, this is ghosts 477 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: of the past essentially, you guys, can I interfer one second? 478 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: Ask a really important question? Almon enjoy or mounds? Which one? Do? 479 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: They both have? Coconut? Yes, give me some coconut. What 480 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: about you? I prefer allm enjoy. I like to have 481 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: a little crunch in in my coconut chocolate bar. What's 482 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: the difference mounds? Well, there's the song. It's sometimes you 483 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: feel like a nuts, sometimes you don't. Almon Joys got nuts, 484 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 1: mounds don't. They just happened to have lots of bodies 485 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: with their hands and feet. Oh my gosh, I got there, 486 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 1: You got there, you got there. Uh. This also this 487 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: also inspires me. This has nothing to do with our episode, 488 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: but it's a great question. Uh favorite candy bar? Least favorite? What? 489 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 1: And why? I think Zero is about to say here 490 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: that's the worst one. It's the worst one. It's the worst. 491 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,719 Speaker 1: White chocolate is pretty garbage in general on his son, 492 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: unless it's like used as an accent piece. And another thing. Sure, 493 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: sure white white chocolate shouldn't be just on its own, 494 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: but also zero bars are somehow offensive to the pal. 495 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: It's so funny. I knew you were gonna want to 496 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: see you know what's up man? I don't know that 497 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 1: I've ever had one of those, sweet summer child. Must 498 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: be nice for you to have yet not been tainted. 499 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 1: This explains why you're always so happy. I know. Yeah, 500 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: I'm just eating hundred grands all the under grand is. Now, 501 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: that's a top bar for me, undergrounds, the top bar. 502 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: Big fan of Achma call it Remember a Co commercial 503 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 1: in the nineties too that did yeah, kind of acclaimation 504 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: situation going on, tollbar and yes or no all day. 505 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: I like tobaron I like the way it snaps. Yeah, 506 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,239 Speaker 1: I don't know what's in it, but I like it. 507 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: The dark chocolate tobaron is what is that? What's is it? 508 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: Toffee that's inside a little pieces stuff? Yeah? Yeah, so anyway, 509 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 1: so yeah, yeah, let let us know. Um also shout 510 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 1: out to nestly crunch. It's it's it's pretty. I think 511 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: it's a nostalgia that makes me like it. You know, 512 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: are we changing the what we're gonna start doing on 513 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 1: this show every week just for candy bars? Because I'm 514 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: enjoying this. This is a good This is a good question. Also, 515 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: I have it on on fairly solid authority that other 516 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 1: countries are absolutely smashing the US out of the water 517 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: in the candy bar game. Yes, waited, but but yes, 518 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 1: going back, Um, it's true. We've seen this time and 519 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: time and time again. Long time listeners, you know that 520 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: despite what our species propagates about itself in in film 521 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 1: and in literature, we're actually terrible and holding onto anything 522 00:33:54,760 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 1: or remembering anything. We lose entire civilizations. We have no idea, 523 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: We have no idea where why some civilizations just stopped. 524 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: We can guess, we can make very good, educated guesses, 525 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: but often we're coming to the game very, very late, 526 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:18,839 Speaker 1: because our predecessors did not want to have the question answered. Well. 527 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 1: You know, we're talking about explorers on the African continent 528 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:27,760 Speaker 1: who when they explorers from Europe rather, who would find 529 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: these um or nate ruins and then say something like Oh, 530 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 1: clearly some other European's been here before. Yeah, or there 531 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:43,399 Speaker 1: was some unknown race of humanity that came down from 532 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,319 Speaker 1: the stars or from inside the earth and created this 533 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 1: definitely lizard people, yeah, I mean nine out of ten 534 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 1: times you're looking at lizards. Yep. So let's uh, let's 535 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,919 Speaker 1: jump to like, Okay, we've known humanity has known about 536 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: these mounds for quite a while. We've known they have existed, 537 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: these weird mounds, they're just out there. But it wasn't 538 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: until the nineteen sixties, the nineteen sixties that the burial 539 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: mounds there in the place of where Cochia was got 540 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 1: protected status, right, Yeah, that's correct. And before the nineteen 541 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 1: sixties it was the site of a lot of heavy development. 542 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 1: Many of the mounds were not all of them, but 543 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: many were destroyed. They were leveled for farming, right, or 544 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:33,360 Speaker 1: to become air fields. People built houses and highways on them. 545 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,760 Speaker 1: And currently you can go see this place. It's about 546 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,440 Speaker 1: eight miles out of St. Louis. You can go visit 547 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:44,360 Speaker 1: this ancient lost city and explore conjecture for yourself about 548 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: what led twenty people to vanish from it. You know, 549 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 1: in a very short time span, you can go to 550 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,800 Speaker 1: Cahokia Mounds dot org, which is c A h okay 551 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: I A m o U n d s dot org 552 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 1: if you want to learn more specifically about how to 553 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 1: get there and everything. And this if if this is 554 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:07,879 Speaker 1: for some of this, this is our first time hearing 555 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 1: about this, This sounds amazing. A lost civilization in the 556 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: heart of the United States. Who wouldn't want to learn 557 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: more about this story, who wouldn't want to lend a 558 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: hand solving the mystery might be surprised. Currently, about two 559 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,960 Speaker 1: d and fifty thousand people visit this site every year. 560 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:32,359 Speaker 1: In comparison, about four million people visit the Gateway Arch 561 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 1: in St. Louis. So there's probably not going to be 562 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 1: a line. Yeah, you should be okay. And that's that's 563 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 1: the thing that leads us to another another topic where 564 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: we don't have time to explore on today's show. How 565 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: many other things like this are out here. So Georgia, 566 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 1: the state in which our podcast is based, has a 567 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 1: rich pre Columbian history all its own. A lot of 568 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 1: people aren't aware of it. As a matter fact, the 569 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,719 Speaker 1: building in which we record this show sits atop an 570 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 1: ancient sacred spring. You guys heard about this, Right, that's 571 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:12,279 Speaker 1: how you're gonna say Indian burial ground, and that would 572 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 1: explain so much. Right, Yeah, there's a there's a cistern 573 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,360 Speaker 1: hidden in the tower of the Pond City Market building 574 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:25,320 Speaker 1: and it still collects water from an ancient sacred spring 575 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: that was driven underground. History is a palamp sessed um, 576 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,400 Speaker 1: which I think we've said before on this show. So 577 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 1: a palam cessed is and the palm sess is a 578 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 1: weird thing, but a great comparison. Back when paper was 579 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:45,760 Speaker 1: much much more expensive and time consuming and rare, people 580 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,759 Speaker 1: wouldn't just throw away a sheet of paper if they 581 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 1: needed to write something down. They would erase the previous 582 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 1: information and right over it. But because of the way 583 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,240 Speaker 1: they wrote, we can still see what was there before, 584 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,919 Speaker 1: because as there are indentations in the paper. And that's 585 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:07,319 Speaker 1: a lot like studying history. We're not looking at this 586 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 1: stuff written on top. We're digging deeper. That's what the 587 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 1: show is all about. And the strangest thing is we 588 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 1: never quite seem to get to the bottom, and we 589 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: probably won't ever. We're gonna be making this show for 590 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,279 Speaker 1: the next two hundred years. This whole studio is gonna 591 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 1: flood four times the next d years. Thankfully. It's a 592 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,360 Speaker 1: sort of like a mini Noah's Our kind of situation, 593 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 1: like you keep you described as the ship and container, 594 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: but it really is. It probably would just rise with 595 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 1: the waters. We just continue podcasting atop the high seas. Sari, 596 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,479 Speaker 1: you're gonna be okay to just keep it rolling while 597 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:45,799 Speaker 1: all that's happening. Yeah, she's she's yeah, she says, uh oh, 598 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:47,800 Speaker 1: she said, of course I got this big Yes. Sorry, 599 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 1: is so cool, you guys, But she did not sign 600 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:54,759 Speaker 1: up for a catastrophic flood, right, she can handle. I 601 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,360 Speaker 1: guess most people don't. Yeah, exactly. Are very few people 602 00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 1: who are like, oh, man, can't wait, I'm so I'm 603 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:05,319 Speaker 1: so hype, unless you live in Miami. Oh gosh, that's right. 604 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 1: That's right. Family there. We hope that you enjoyed this 605 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:14,320 Speaker 1: brief exploration of the mystery of Coo Kia. As Matt said, 606 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 1: you can visit their website for more information, and we 607 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 1: would like to hear from you what are the what 608 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:26,000 Speaker 1: are the forgotten monuments or ruins in your neck of 609 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 1: the woods. We talked a little bit about what was 610 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 1: built upon ancient uh sites here in Georgia. With just 611 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:37,680 Speaker 1: one example, I imagine there are hundreds, if not thousands, 612 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:42,319 Speaker 1: of even better, more explicit examples, and we want to 613 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 1: know yours. Yeah, and have you ever been to Mississippian 614 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 1: culture mound structure anywhere, or a series of mounds anywhere? 615 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:51,840 Speaker 1: Have you've been to some of the mounds in Georgia 616 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 1: or just wherever you live? We want to know. We 617 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,840 Speaker 1: wanna know your experience and if you've heard anything else 618 00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:58,759 Speaker 1: that we should learn about it, or a whole maybe 619 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,000 Speaker 1: a whole another podcast we should make about that specific 620 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:07,400 Speaker 1: culture or location. Please find us on Facebook or Instagram 621 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,480 Speaker 1: where we are Conspiracy Stuff and Conspiracy Stuff Show. We're 622 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,200 Speaker 1: also on Twitter hanging out over there. But let's just, 623 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 1: you know, everybody just try and be nice on Twitter. Okay, 624 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 1: let's everybody be nice. Most of you all are super 625 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:20,960 Speaker 1: cool people not being nice on Twitter, Matt, I've just 626 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,200 Speaker 1: noticed on Twitter lately there's been a lot of not 627 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 1: niceness really just Twitter at large. There are Twitter It's 628 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,239 Speaker 1: just very opinionated, that's all I think. Okay, So if 629 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:31,960 Speaker 1: you don't want to do that stuff, find us on 630 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 1: our Facebook group. Here's where it gets crazy, where we 631 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,880 Speaker 1: have the best mods on the planet. Shout out to 632 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,600 Speaker 1: you guys. People get cranky on there sometimes too, but 633 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 1: it's okay. We again those mods hold us down. Let's 634 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,040 Speaker 1: see what else we got. Um. You can check out 635 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 1: me and Ben's instagram e's if you want to. I'm 636 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,640 Speaker 1: at Embryonic Insider, I'm at Ben Bowling. Matt. I believe 637 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,840 Speaker 1: you are at Kim Kardashian or is it j I 638 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 1: don't know what it is this week. You are at 639 00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:01,839 Speaker 1: the Famous Egg. That's it. That's it. I'm a fund 640 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:06,160 Speaker 1: of me like my posts, part them. Whatever you do 641 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,200 Speaker 1: on Instagram. Just kidding. Don't find me there. Hey, but 642 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,880 Speaker 1: what if? What if I am a fan of the show. 643 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,879 Speaker 1: I have something my fellow listeners would love to hear, 644 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,560 Speaker 1: and I would to reach the show, but I hate 645 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:21,279 Speaker 1: social needs. Check it out. Pick up your old phone. Yeah, 646 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,520 Speaker 1: if you've got a dial tone, then you're good to go. 647 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 1: You'll even work on our rotary. It'll work. Just just 648 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:31,560 Speaker 1: type in one eight three three st d w y 649 00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 1: t k K only one K yes, but just stuff 650 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,760 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know, and leave us a voicemail. 651 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: It's you get three minutes to tell your story if 652 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:42,920 Speaker 1: you don't get it in in three minutes, then you 653 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,200 Speaker 1: got a call back and do it again. We recommend 654 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 1: practicing it in front of the mirror a few times 655 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:53,759 Speaker 1: before committing um, because we will shame you the second one. 656 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:58,200 Speaker 1: It's fine, but just you know, much like the Network USA, 657 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:02,000 Speaker 1: we characters are well welcome on our things, So just 658 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 1: go ahead and just get weird with it if you 659 00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 1: want to or be super sincere, we accept all and 660 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 1: if it's something that you do not want shared with 661 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,600 Speaker 1: your fellow listeners, all that we ask is that you 662 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,960 Speaker 1: say so in the recordings so that we don't air 663 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:18,000 Speaker 1: your business. If it's just a private message, we totally understand. 664 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:23,440 Speaker 1: And to Knowle's point, I absolutely agree from personal experience 665 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 1: trying to leave a voicemail for this show. I think 666 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:30,480 Speaker 1: I did it like five times because I wasn't ready, 667 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,960 Speaker 1: and we mocked you aggressively. Then I think justly so 668 00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:35,880 Speaker 1: we would never do that to our buddy Ben. But 669 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 1: there is one other way. If you hate phones, we 670 00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:44,120 Speaker 1: get If you hate the social media stuff, totally get it. 671 00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:48,320 Speaker 1: You can still contact us. Just say our names three 672 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,719 Speaker 1: times in a mirror in a dark room, or send 673 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,359 Speaker 1: us an email. We are conspiracy and how Stuff Works 674 00:42:53,360 --> 00:43:14,040 Speaker 1: dot com. M Stuff They Don't Want You to Know 675 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,680 Speaker 1: is a production of I heart Radio's How Stuff Works. 676 00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:18,960 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i 677 00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,960 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 678 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:22,760 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.