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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: My name is Matt. Our colleague Can nol Is on

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Speaker 1: an adventure today. They call me Ben. We're joined as

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Speaker 1: always with our super producer Paul. Mission Controlled decands. Most importantly,

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Speaker 1: you are you, You are here, and that makes this

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Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. We've got a

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Speaker 1: special two part episode today, folks, if everything works out,

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Speaker 1: and as always, knock on wood if we do not

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Speaker 1: finally get black bagged for all of the things we

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Speaker 1: have explored over the past few years. Matt spears like

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Speaker 1: Britay spears or you know, really I was now he

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Speaker 1: is listening back to the putent episode that we just

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Speaker 1: did recently, and folks, you may have noticed my voice

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Speaker 1: sounded a little bit like it was accompanied by a

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Speaker 1: snare drum effect. That was a tech That was a

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Speaker 1: tech misstep on my end, which the one and only

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Speaker 1: Mission Control was able to save. So if you like

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Speaker 1: that episode, thank him specifically for making it uh less unlistenable. Well,

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Speaker 1: Paul does that for every episode for all of us.

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Speaker 1: The amount of popped pas that occur in this microphone.

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, Paul. Yeah, there's also what you're hearing

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Speaker 1: or not our real voices. It's you're hearing something run

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Speaker 1: through a filter to remove our um incredibly thick British

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Speaker 1: and Scottish accents. Yes, and the demonic, the weird demonic

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Speaker 1: tones that come out every once in a while. That's

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Speaker 1: not fault. It's just how we are made, guys and props.

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Speaker 1: Our videographer and uh YouTube mastermind, James, he goes through

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Speaker 1: in every clip you see, and he he photo shops

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Speaker 1: in these human looking eyes, the pupil in the SCLAA

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Speaker 1: rotoscoping at the highest levels. See how he's tracking them

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Speaker 1: right now. Pretty crazy. And so with that, with those

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Speaker 1: thanks and uh a few behind the scenes secrets, we

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Speaker 1: want to thank you again for joining us in an

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Speaker 1: episode that we we've always wanted to do. We've done

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Speaker 1: some things about this around this in the past, um,

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Speaker 1: but what what we're gonna do today is explore some

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Speaker 1: of the original celebrities of the United States, the original

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Speaker 1: heroes and the villains of the country in which we

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Speaker 1: record today's show. Who are we talking about? We're talking

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Speaker 1: about the founding Fathers. Yes to Capital F's double fs

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Speaker 1: for those guys. Matt, what do you think of when

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Speaker 1: you hear the phrase founding fathers? I think about the

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Speaker 1: ten dollar founding father without a father, got a lot

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Speaker 1: farther by working a lot harder, being a self starter,

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Speaker 1: being a lot smarter. By fourteen, they placed him in

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Speaker 1: charge of a trading charter. I don't know, for some reason,

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Speaker 1: that's what happens in my head when I think about

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Speaker 1: that every day. Right, Yes, uh, we're we're alluding, of

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Speaker 1: course the Hamilton's, you know. Um. As a kid, I

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Speaker 1: I naturally always thought of Benjamin Franklin because there aren't

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Speaker 1: a bunch of there. There aren't a ton of Benjamin's

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Speaker 1: in a lot of office right, or in a lot

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Speaker 1: of history books. So so I always I thought about

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Speaker 1: that guy, had a fascination with him entirely based on

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Speaker 1: the name. And you and I found in an earlier

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Speaker 1: exploration that he was once suspected of being a serial killer.

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Speaker 1: So well, yeah, or at least after the fact. It

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Speaker 1: was an odd thing, right, it was kind of people

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Speaker 1: discover heard that there were bones in this in the

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Speaker 1: basement area of this one house where he lived at

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Speaker 1: one point. Weird stuff. And if you want to know

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Speaker 1: why we're being careful with how they how we phrase that,

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Speaker 1: that's because we have an episode you should check out

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Speaker 1: if you haven't yet. Was Benjamin Franklin a serial killer?

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Speaker 1: Not gonna spoil it for you here, but he was.

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Speaker 1: This was only one weird story about the Founding Fathers

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Speaker 1: of the United States. So let's let's kick off part

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Speaker 1: one of this episode by answering the basic questions. We

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Speaker 1: can't assume that everybody automatically thinks of Ben Franklin or

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Speaker 1: Alexander Hamilton when they hear that phrase. We have a

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Speaker 1: lot of listeners who are not in the US, so,

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Speaker 1: uh so, here are the facts, Matt, The Founding Fathers

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Speaker 1: what who? Yeah, they're not just all older white men

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Speaker 1: with white fake wigs, uh standing around, though some of

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Speaker 1: them did look that way when they around. It's really

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Speaker 1: the Founding Fathers is just a term for the group

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Speaker 1: of people that were instrumental informing what became the United

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Speaker 1: States of America, the country, the the documents that would

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Speaker 1: really just guide what this country would become, the United States,

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Speaker 1: the one in which Ben and Nolan, Paul and I live,

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Speaker 1: and you know, it's it is it really there are

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Speaker 1: the people who formed the current United States government. Really,

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Speaker 1: it's just an evolution from the thing that the seed

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Speaker 1: that they planted. And you know, a lot of historians

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Speaker 1: are going to differ if you look to the writing

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Speaker 1: and the research that's occurred since the seventeen hundreds, Um,

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Speaker 1: on the they're gonna they're going to differ on the

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Speaker 1: specifics about some of these people. And you really have

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Speaker 1: to think about it this way. You've got all these documents, right,

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Speaker 1: the Declaration of Independence, the document that declared that the

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Speaker 1: United States was going to be a new thing and

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Speaker 1: separate it from from England. Right, Are all of those

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Speaker 1: people who signed that document a founding father or a

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Speaker 1: founding person? In this case, it is the founding fathers

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Speaker 1: because they were all male. Um, and that's something we

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Speaker 1: can address. But that's the fact of the matter. And um,

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Speaker 1: you know that that's that's one set of people. And

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Speaker 1: then it's a fairly small number of human beings that

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Speaker 1: actually signed that document, fairly, but then there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who are actually there at the sev

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Speaker 1: seven Constitutional Convention because those people were also extremely instrumental

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Speaker 1: in shaping like how you actually put into action the

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Speaker 1: words that are on these documents. Are they all founding fathers?

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Speaker 1: Is it yeah, Is it like fifty something people or

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Speaker 1: is it more like seven or eight because the lists

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Speaker 1: can vary, you know, And we also have to point

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Speaker 1: out that this this cause inceptor this group term was

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Speaker 1: generated after after the actions that led to the revolution

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Speaker 1: in the formation of the country. So if we wanted

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Speaker 1: to go like m c U style or Superhero movie

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Speaker 1: style or even Ocean's eleven style, let's call it a heist.

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Speaker 1: In many ways, it was a heist if you ask

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Speaker 1: the people who lived here before the Europeans came. Uh.

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Speaker 1: But here's here's what we think of, and we think

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Speaker 1: of that as like an ensemble cast, then we're really

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Speaker 1: looking at less than ten people, maybe seven or eight

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Speaker 1: people who are sort of the core avengers of this uh,

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Speaker 1: this weird universe were building their folks like John Adams,

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Speaker 1: Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton's of course, Matt I will not

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Speaker 1: let him not get the shout out, John J. Thomas, Jefferson,

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Speaker 1: James Madison, George Washington. These are the people that were

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Speaker 1: in the room when it happened for a half yes,

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Speaker 1: and and they each play as individuals UH tremendous role

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Speaker 1: in various aspects of this country's history. But there are

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Speaker 1: other people that sometimes get added to the group, like

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Speaker 1: Paul Revere, one of several people who warned that the

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Speaker 1: British were coming in a midnight ride, or people like

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Speaker 1: George Mason, responsible for the Bill of Rights. UH played

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Speaker 1: a heavy role in the creation of the Constitution, and

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Speaker 1: then I believe refused to sign it. Well, and think

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Speaker 1: of the countless number of humans that fought in the

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Speaker 1: Revolutionary War who are all fighting for the same thing,

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Speaker 1: ostensibly or essentially um the independence of this thing that

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Speaker 1: would become the United States of America. I mean, are

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Speaker 1: are they founding fathers like any general or anyone above

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Speaker 1: what would be just considered a soldier or even a soldier.

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Speaker 1: But what about what about the what about the non

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Speaker 1: dudes who were instrumental and founding the country? You know,

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Speaker 1: and you know it is it's nice to be able

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Speaker 1: to think about it with seven or eight people, like

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Speaker 1: you said, like the ensemble Marvel version of the Founding Fathers,

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Speaker 1: because you especially if you're in class. You only have

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Speaker 1: to memorize facts about you know, a few individuals, but

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Speaker 1: you know, as an ensemble cast, this really is it's way,

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Speaker 1: It's way more people who would be considered founding fathers,

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Speaker 1: unless you're I guess we're just looking at the intellectual fathers,

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Speaker 1: which I really don't like this terminology. The intellectual I

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Speaker 1: don't know, creators the George Lucas is I guess so

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Speaker 1: they're Yeah, they're they're the ideators are the people who

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Speaker 1: had revolutionary thought and put it into action and came

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Speaker 1: from came often from place. Is a privilege such that

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Speaker 1: they could enact those ideals and pursue those ambitions. But

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Speaker 1: what did they do well? In short, A lot, a

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Speaker 1: lot of stuff like tons of Uh, that would be

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Speaker 1: the short answer. They did not always get along to

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Speaker 1: say the least. Uh. There is a notable duel that

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Speaker 1: most Americans are are aware about now because it plays

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Speaker 1: a big role in a musical that that Paul and

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Speaker 1: Matt and I love. Uh. I don't know, Paul, do

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Speaker 1: you do you like Hamilton's? Oh so? Paul, Paul Michigan

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Speaker 1: trol Deck had just just told us he has, in fact,

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Speaker 1: never seen nor heard Hamilton's. Paul, I would love to

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Speaker 1: travel up to your neck of the woods when this

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Speaker 1: pandemic is over and go see the show with you

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Speaker 1: and Matt. I don't think a bit it in your schedule.

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Speaker 1: Would you be down to do that, to actually see

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Speaker 1: it like in person? Yeah, you guys, you can get

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Speaker 1: a trial of Disney Plus I think, and watch it

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Speaker 1: right now if you want to. And it's great and

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Speaker 1: it's the original cast, yeah, and they and they do

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Speaker 1: great work with the cameras and the cinematography as well,

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Speaker 1: so it's not just a stationary camera in a mid

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Speaker 1: mid tier seat or something. By the way, in Paul

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Speaker 1: in New York, you can be a new man. Just

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Speaker 1: so you know, you can be a new man. You

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Speaker 1: can understand why none of these references are making any

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Speaker 1: sense to Paul, you know what I mean. So Paul

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Speaker 1: just told us even if he doesn't get it, he

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Speaker 1: can tell it's something from Hamilton's, which gives Hamilton's the

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Speaker 1: mark of a classic according to some literally literary critics. Uh,

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Speaker 1: but you know, Paul is currently kind of in the

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Speaker 1: eye of a hurricane culturally with Hamilton's. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: quiet for a moment, but this this is true. These

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Speaker 1: folks did a lot of stuff. They did not get along.

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Speaker 1: As a very diplomatic way to put it, they did

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Speaker 1: not always grow up a d percent. They had some

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Speaker 1: beef points, and despite their at times profound differences in

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Speaker 1: opinions or motivations, they created the basis for the US.

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Speaker 1: They also created the institutions that were meant to propel

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Speaker 1: this nation forward. But if we're being realistic, what they

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Speaker 1: were really trying to do was their level best to

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Speaker 1: stop it from collapsing. Because you know, like you said,

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Speaker 1: matt Uh, there's a benefit of retrospect that we have

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Speaker 1: looking back on these folks, and they had a benefit

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Speaker 1: of retrospect looking back on other folks, specifically empires that fell,

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Speaker 1: and they were like, okay, this is what we we

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Speaker 1: need to avoid. And they also had some real hutsba

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Speaker 1: about this because we have to remember the grand experiments

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Speaker 1: they embarked upon, which continues today, had never been tried

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Speaker 1: and quite this way before. You know, it's like the

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Speaker 1: first person who put potato chips in a sandwich. Do

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Speaker 1: we dare disturb the universe? But a little? They're like,

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Speaker 1: you know, we got a good sandwich going on here,

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Speaker 1: but really we need a crunch. Wait a second, and

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Speaker 1: then America was formed in America was formed? But how

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Speaker 1: like That's the thing though, history is a conversation, it's

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Speaker 1: not a series of discrete events occurring in a vacuum.

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Speaker 1: So these folks, regardless of how you feel, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I would say, regardless of whether you live in the US,

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Speaker 1: their actions affect you today in profound ways. The Constitution

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Speaker 1: and the institutions they created survived in heavily amended forms. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You see their faces on money. That's how you know

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Speaker 1: you made it, man, when you when your faces on

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Speaker 1: the money. Yeah, m you don't have to be a queen,

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Speaker 1: you could be a founding father. Sorry, I'm just thinking about.

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Speaker 1: Is the queen still on the pound? Is that still

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Speaker 1: a thing? I haven't seen an actual physical pound in

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Speaker 1: quite a while. Yes, yes, that is correct, Matt. The

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Speaker 1: queen is on the definitely on the British coin, on

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Speaker 1: the one pound British coin. Well. Also they have there's

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Speaker 1: an interesting law across the pond about this because upon

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Speaker 1: the death of the current queen, her picture will be

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Speaker 1: removed from the currency. Really, and then the king, the

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Speaker 1: king goes on there just or if that's what actually happens.

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Speaker 1: If there's a successful, you know, peaceful transfer power which

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Speaker 1: is never given, then whomever becomes the monarch gets their

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Speaker 1: face on the money at least maybe. I mean, things

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Speaker 1: can change pretty quickly. The current queen has been the

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Speaker 1: current queen for quite a long time. Uh, but that's

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Speaker 1: monarchies are going to play a big part in today's episode. Uh.

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Speaker 1: For many years, the founding fathers were somewhat deified, right,

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Speaker 1: And you, if you are of a certain age, you

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Speaker 1: remember the history books with these fantastic paintings of these

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Speaker 1: uh bewigged, bestockinged men who were you know, like bolitely

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Speaker 1: and studiously agree to something that everybody thought was a

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Speaker 1: great idea and everybody was happy about. That remains true

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Speaker 1: to a degree today, and it's unfair to the actual

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Speaker 1: people not to mention the students learning this. Modern historians

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Speaker 1: are a little bit more accurate about the problematic nature

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Speaker 1: of some of these founders and also those um somewhat

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Speaker 1: airbrushed stories. We hear many parts of them are true,

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Speaker 1: but they were off to not the story entire So

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Speaker 1: today that is what we were tackling. You see, fellow

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Speaker 1: conspiracy realist, these uh, founding fathers had a ton of

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Speaker 1: acknowledged successes, but they also had a ton of secrets.

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Speaker 1: Some yeah, yeah, some are more well known than others,

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Speaker 1: and some of the truest ones are the strangest ones

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Speaker 1: and the ones that you should bother you the most.

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna pause for a moment for word from

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Speaker 1: our sponsor, and then we'll dive in. Here's where it

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Speaker 1: gets crazy. So we're talking about the secrets of the

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Speaker 1: founding fathers, the acknowledged and unacknowledged things that kind of

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Speaker 1: sully the pristine reputations that many of us, including Ben

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Speaker 1: and myself, grew up with when we we read about

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Speaker 1: or talked about the founding fathers of the United States.

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Speaker 1: And the first one it should be pretty obvious to

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Speaker 1: everyone here, and that is slavery. Yeah, And really all

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Speaker 1: you have to think about are the words that were

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Speaker 1: in the Declaration of Independence, the words that were in

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Speaker 1: the Constitution, and then how do you square all of that?

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Speaker 1: Knowing that chattel slavery was very much a thing when

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Speaker 1: the United States was founded, and it continued on for

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Speaker 1: a long time afterwards. There's not a good analog for this,

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Speaker 1: because this is the enslavement of human beings by the

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Speaker 1: people who said that human beings should be free. So

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Speaker 1: just a one piece a snapshot of the hypocrisy there is.

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Speaker 1: Imagine that you have passed it's like any it's it's

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Speaker 1: like any vice law. Imagine you have passed a law

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Speaker 1: where you say, okay, no one in the Kingdom of

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Speaker 1: Polandia or in the decond republic, uh hand drink, drink

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Speaker 1: booze or I don't know, do queludes or something. And

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Speaker 1: and while they're while while the rulers of Poland are

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Speaker 1: making this law, they're off their gills on booze and pills,

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Speaker 1: and they're still making these laws. There's the hypocrisy. Is

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Speaker 1: hypocrisy doesn't even describe how profoundly messed up this is.

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Speaker 1: To be fair, not all founding fathers owned slaves. One

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Speaker 1: founding father, notably George Washington, owned slaves and later went

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Speaker 1: on to manument or free some of these, again human beings.

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Speaker 1: But other people like James Madison owned slaves. Didn't really

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Speaker 1: seem soups conflicted about it. They because they when they

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Speaker 1: said all men are created equal is misleading to not

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Speaker 1: point out that, ever, load those folks in that room

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Speaker 1: where it happened. Did not think of all human beings

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Speaker 1: as human beings, So to them, this is more of

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Speaker 1: a livestock situation. You know, we're we're talking about a

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Speaker 1: lot of the other stuff, but the yeah, not all

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Speaker 1: human beings are created equal based on their skin as

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Speaker 1: well as based on their gender, and that is another

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Speaker 1: major thing that you know, just has to be addressed.

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Speaker 1: It does say all men in there, oh yeah, and

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Speaker 1: and it doesn't. It doesn't. I can't go back and

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Speaker 1: talk to James Madison or any of these other people

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Speaker 1: and say, well, did you met all human beings or

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Speaker 1: because it really does feel like the way the laws

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Speaker 1: are being set up where you have to be a

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Speaker 1: male and own property and some of these things that

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Speaker 1: it feels like you're being specific as hell here writing.

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Speaker 1: Take take a page from Putin right at like any

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Speaker 1: former Russian president whoever might be, and you know we're

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Speaker 1: talking about these founding fathers. There's one that you've probably

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Speaker 1: heard a lot about with with reference to how he

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Speaker 1: treated his slaves in very specific ways. Mr Thomas Jefferson, Yes,

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Speaker 1: Thomas Jefferson, I've got ah, I've got a quotation you

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Speaker 1: might enjoy here. Uh, people loved his peers. A lot

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Speaker 1: of them love Thomas Jefferson. He definitely had some fans,

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Speaker 1: he definitely had some enemies, obviously. But there's a quote

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Speaker 1: from John Quincy Adams in his diary in Seive, he writes,

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Speaker 1: spent the evening with Mr. Jefferson, whom I love to

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Speaker 1: be with. You can never be an hour in this

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Speaker 1: man's company without something of the marvelous Abigail Adams also

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Speaker 1: described Jefferson as one of the choice ones of the earth.

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Speaker 1: He was wealthy, it was well educated. Uh, he was

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Speaker 1: a tremendous hypocrite because you see, he had a long

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Speaker 1: standing intimate relationship with one Sally Hemmings, who was at

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Speaker 1: the time enslaved on his estate. And if you have

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Speaker 1: listened to any work on ethics or the nature of

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Speaker 1: informed consent, you know that consent is impossible in that situation. Uh.

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Speaker 1: For a long time, the Jefferson a state and some

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Speaker 1: other interested parties fought against this story. Instead, it was

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Speaker 1: just a rumor or besmirching the character of a man

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Speaker 1: who was so tremendously influential in this country's early history

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Speaker 1: until the advent of DNA testing, at which point there

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Speaker 1: was a very much. There was very much a you

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Speaker 1: are the father moment with the descendants of Hemmings and Jefferson.

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Speaker 1: So he wrote prolifically about a lot of noble ideas,

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Speaker 1: a lot of vaunt like, lofty, beautiful things. Snoy didn't

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Speaker 1: write about Matt He didn't write about, uh, the mother

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Speaker 1: of several of his children. Ah. Yeah, when Sally, Sally

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Speaker 1: Hammings didn't make it into a lot of that and

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Speaker 1: to a lot of the ink there. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: really unfortunate. We just to continuous slavery for a moment.

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Speaker 1: We have spoken in the past about large civilizations and

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Speaker 1: any time there are um significant movements and and increases

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Speaker 1: in like let's say, a city and an expansion of

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Speaker 1: you know, an empire or something, slavery very often over

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Speaker 1: the course of history has played a crucial role in

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Speaker 1: doing those things because there there are very few individuals

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Speaker 1: who are the intellectuals pushing forward on what should happen.

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Speaker 1: But then you need lots and lots and lots of

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Speaker 1: manpower to do extremely difficult grueling a lot of times

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Speaker 1: fatal work. And you know, this is the case of

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Speaker 1: the forming of the United States and the expansion you

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Speaker 1: know westward, as well as just the expansion in general

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Speaker 1: of cities and places to hold enough people as as

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Speaker 1: the United States grew. And it is really like, it's

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Speaker 1: it's messed up to think about that, to think that

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Speaker 1: if you you know, it's very difficult to pay everybody

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Speaker 1: a great wage and to you know, keep everybody happy

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Speaker 1: while you're you're doing the kind of things that they

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Speaker 1: were doing. And it's a really troubling thing to think about.

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Speaker 1: And my five year old son is is here. I

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Speaker 1: bought my son these Mini A and W root beers

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Speaker 1: because he tried I had one a while ago. I

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Speaker 1: hate to put a brand out there, but I tried

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Speaker 1: one a little while ago and he wanted to take

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Speaker 1: a step and he thought it was the best thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So now he's brought he's bringing in a Mini A

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Speaker 1: and W root Beer. So hey, if you guys want

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Speaker 1: to give us a sponsorship and W root beer many

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Speaker 1: many cans. Uh, They're delicious. It's made with aged vanilla

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Speaker 1: and no caffeine. I gotta be honest with you, you know,

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Speaker 1: whenever I get a whatever, I run into root beer

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Speaker 1: in the wild. From now on, I am going to

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Speaker 1: give it to your kid. Because I can't abide root beer. Man,

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Speaker 1: it's too many, too many things going on. Oh yeah, yeah, man,

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Speaker 1: that's it's crazy. That's a that's a very I don't

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Speaker 1: really understand root beer. I don't understand a lot of things.

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Speaker 1: But but yeah, if you're a fan of that. What

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Speaker 1: is okay? What is root beer? U? Root beer is? Oh? What?

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Speaker 1: I just lost the word for it? What it actually is? Um?

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Speaker 1: What's the what's the actual route that's in there? Paul Sasaparilla.

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Speaker 1: Sasaparilla was Sassafras. I think it's Sasaparilla. And that's a

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Speaker 1: type like an early version of root beer, and then

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Speaker 1: it became something else and it's been made since the

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Speaker 1: colonial era. Yes, yes, again, I know we've got a

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Speaker 1: lot of root beer fans in the audience. It fits

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Speaker 1: with the Today's show because it is very much a

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Speaker 1: North American drink. Um. But maybe I'm just yeah, it

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Speaker 1: just doesn't click with me. I mean, but there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of things I just don't get. It can't

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Speaker 1: be everything, can't be for everyone. Right now, that makes sense,

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Speaker 1: I understand, which is what Jefferson must have thought segue

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Speaker 1: when he lay awake at night wondering about his rank hypocrisy. Right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it just gave him nightmares. Well, here's the

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Speaker 1: thing is interesting, apartment. So Sally Hemmings worked as made

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Speaker 1: in the Jefferson household for two and a half years

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Speaker 1: in Paris, and when she was in Paris, France, that

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Speaker 1: meant she was free. So while she was free, the

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Speaker 1: story goes, she negotiated with Jefferson and said, not only

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Speaker 1: will I return with you to Monticello, but I will

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Speaker 1: return to enslavement in exchange for extraordinary privileges as they

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Speaker 1: were called for herself and freedom for her children unborn children.

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Speaker 1: And so decades later Jefferson did free all of Hemming's children.

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Speaker 1: Is it because he didn't do that for any other

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Speaker 1: family unit of people he enslaved? Yeah? No, I agree.

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Speaker 1: I'm saying that that is one act that could be

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Speaker 1: considered good. And so there we go. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: know it's a little depressing, but yes, yes, slavery. A

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Speaker 1: lot of Founding fathers were totally into it because to

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Speaker 1: your point, Matt, it was seen as an economic necessity, right,

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Speaker 1: no matter how else they dressed it up. And now

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Speaker 1: we're gonna pause for a word from our sponsor, who

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Speaker 1: I don't think is Illumination Global Unlimited, but you never know.

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Speaker 1: And then we'll be back to explore something that we've

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Speaker 1: we touched on a little bit in the past. It's

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Speaker 1: something that was probably on all of our minds as

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Speaker 1: soon as we saw the title of this episode. And

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Speaker 1: we're back. Okay, everyone. If you live in the United

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Speaker 1: States or many other parts of the world, you may

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Speaker 1: have been driving around in your local town, maybe early

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Speaker 1: on when you started driving, or when you really started

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Speaker 1: noticing things out the window as a kid, and you

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Speaker 1: probably saw a couple of buildings, maybe one building in

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Speaker 1: your small town wherever you live, that had kind of

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Speaker 1: a strange symbol on it. You're not really sure what

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Speaker 1: it is. It's definitely a symbol though, and there's not

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Speaker 1: a lot of words on it except for this one,

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Speaker 1: and it's mason or freemason or freemasonry. And maybe that

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Speaker 1: led you down a curious path for the rest of

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Speaker 1: your life trying to figure out what that was and

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Speaker 1: what it is and what kind of control it has

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Speaker 1: over you and the surrounding world. And then you realized

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Speaker 1: one day, I'm speaking about myself and all of this.

427
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 1: By the way, you realize, oh wait, does this have

428
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: anything to do with the founding of this country of

429
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: the United States of America. Well, I love this set up.

430
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: Well I'm really going on a long walk here, but yes,

431
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: yes it does because many of the founding fathers that

432
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: we've been speaking about this this whole episode were in

433
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 1: fact Freemasons or or members of the Free and accepted

434
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 1: Mason's or what some version of the Scottish Right or

435
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: some other sect within Mason. Yeah, Benjamin Franklin, uh, shout

436
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: shout out to you, Bennie f James Monroe, George Washington, uh,

437
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: many more. This is not a conspiracy theory. This is

438
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: just these are facts. Long time listeners or anybody who

439
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: enjoys our YouTube page, you may recall the time that

440
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: Matt and I traveled to d C to check out

441
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: some of the theories or the claims for ourselves, and

442
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: we found that there were there were a lot of

443
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: things that at least had the germ of truth, right, Like,

444
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: if a conspiracy theory is a pearl, then there is

445
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: a grain of sand that this pearl grew around. So

446
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: one of the weirdest examples would probably be the Washington Monument.

447
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: I think that. I hope you didn't get tired of

448
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: me saying it when we're up there, Matt. But one

449
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: of the things that kept blowing my mind, it's like,

450
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: who goes immediately to an obelisk? They're like, what do

451
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: you what do you think of? You know, their pitching

452
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: ideas and they're like, what do you think of when

453
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: you think of George Washington? And then there's like silence

454
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: in the room. Yeah, it's just it just keeps going.

455
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: Somebody raises their heads like that, like you have a question,

456
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: and they're like, no, no, I'm doing this, build this. Yeah, yeah,

457
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: we'll be learned when we made that video is that

458
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: the obelisk was not the first thing they thought about

459
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: when they were going to create that monument. They were

460
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: going for a bit of a pantheon situation early uh,

461
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: with all of the founding fathers essentially enshrined in stone

462
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: together in this one thing that they were going to

463
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: call the Washington Monument. It was a bit of an

464
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: odd idea. It could have been cool. It's kind of

465
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: reminiscent if you've ever seen the Lincoln Memorial in Washington,

466
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: d c. If it's reminiscent of that. When you imagine

467
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 1: a single founding father like Lincoln in stone just there

468
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: as you know, an embodiment of that character really not

469
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: so much of the man, but the character from history

470
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: of of one of these founding fathers, and you just

471
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: imagine that in a big circle like giant stone versions

472
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: of the Founding Fathers in a big circle out in

473
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: the middle of the of the National Mall. There. That's

474
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: what it could have been. But it was not. It

475
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: was an obelisk instead. Yeah, due to budgetary constraints, mainly,

476
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: which is, you know, something that's common in the government.

477
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: But it looks, it looks neat, it's clearly Greco Roman inspired.

478
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: It's it said. We should emphasize that the original design

479
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,959
Speaker 1: still did have an obelisk, So whomever was in that

480
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: room pitching these designs was definitely like they were obelisk

481
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: oriented to begin with. But the other stuff we saw

482
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: did prove that the ideals and values of Masonry would

483
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: have been common knowledge to the founders of this country.

484
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: This stuff has proven. It only really verges into conspiracy

485
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: when explore the degree to which people claim Masonic membership

486
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: may have, may or may not have influenced the formation

487
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: of the United States, and the truth is probably best

488
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: put this way. Did individual freemason's play a role in

489
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: the revolution and the creation of the States, Absolutely clearly,

490
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 1: But Masonry as an institution was not some vast secret society.

491
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: To go with the superhero comparison, It's not as if

492
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: uh Ben Franklin and George Washington were shaking hands and

493
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: leaning in and going, hey, you know what I mean.

494
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: But they could have been doing secret handshakes. Oh, they

495
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: were definitely. Yeah. No, the handshakes are like one of

496
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: the funnest parts. You can't skip the handshakes. But what

497
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: doesn't that just knowing that, doesn't that feel a little weird? Yeah?

498
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm maybe I'm blind, Maybe I've got a blind

499
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: spot here. No, No, I don't don't you know what

500
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: I'm I I completely understand what you're saying then, and

501
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: you're correct. It's just at the same time, I, I

502
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: don't know. It gives me this weird feeling knowing knowing

503
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 1: that a lot of the people who decided to go

504
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: in this very divergent route from the way history was

505
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: going from, you know, breaking out from their place. I'm

506
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: doing quotations here in the world and having this revolution

507
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 1: this revolutionary set of ideas and ideals like this group

508
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: of people were also a part of this club that

509
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: has you know, it puts forward a lot of values

510
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: that feel similar. I would just say, yeah, that's the

511
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: thing though, That's what makes this so tantalizing, right, it's

512
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: it's got that, it's got that, mommy. And also, look

513
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: at the French Revolution. It's it's a little it's a

514
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:02,959
Speaker 1: little over simplistic to say that the French Revolution was

515
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 1: entirely the result of Freemasonry. But there were Freemasons who,

516
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: again as individuals, were active and and profoundly influencing society.

517
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 1: You know. So this is the thing. The founding fathers

518
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: were not Masonic cabal by any means. Thomas Jefferson not

519
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 1: a freemason. Alexander Hamilton's not a freemason. Would have made

520
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: it into the musical, I'm sure not A Yes, there

521
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: it is, that's the one. It's probably on the Hamilton's mixtape.

522
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: But but but when we think about this, so one

523
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: thing that we've been really grateful for is a show,

524
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 1: is that we have had a lot of our fellow

525
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: listeners right into us who are active members of a

526
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: lodge or were Masons for some time, and the feedback

527
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: we got to that one question, which is like, what

528
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: do you what do you have to do to get

529
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: kicked out? It was actually it was very reasonable. And

530
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 1: and this the reason I'm saying this is that we

531
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: have to understand back in this time and era, uh

532
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 1: Masonry was maybe the ideals, the goals of Masonry were

533
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: things that the Founding Fathers would have already been down with,

534
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: you know. And some of the people who are described

535
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: as Founding fathers are influential actors in the Revolution. Some

536
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 1: of those who are described as being Mason's also that's

537
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 1: a little misleading because several of them did not go

538
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: on to join Freemasonry until well after the revolution, so

539
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:53,320
Speaker 1: they weren't part of some conspiracy. But that's that's the thing. Okay.

540
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 1: So Masonry holds values that Founding fathers themselves already were

541
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,800
Speaker 1: super down with self determination, should the right for groups

542
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: of people to peaceably assemble, freedom of the press, and

543
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: of course the controversial would freedom of religion, believe what

544
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: you want. These are all incredibly radical ideas. They are

545
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 1: anathema to the governing structures of continental Europe. You could

546
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: say that monarchies were anti Masonic because the values of

547
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: Masonry threatened their own very real, pre existing conspiracy, which

548
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 1: is how to control people, keep yourself at the top, right, yeah,

549
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: top down control versus control by the of the individual

550
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 1: uh or control control of the group by the individuals

551
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: within the group. Fascinating stuff when you really start to

552
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: break down, I like exactly what that means to have

553
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 1: a republic or a democratic republic versus a monarchy. But

554
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,399
Speaker 1: doesn't all that stuff sound like the Bill of Rights

555
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 1: spent right right? Uh? Liberty, equality and so on. Yeah, yeah,

556
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,359
Speaker 1: they they have a lot in common, you know what

557
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: I mean? And I is it do? At what point

558
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 1: does inspiration become plagiarism? That's another question. But but I

559
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 1: want to go into the concept here of monarchy seen

560
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: as a conspiracy and why why monarchies were often in

561
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 1: several countries in continental Europe against the propagation of the

562
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: existence of Masonry. So monarchies did something incredibly clever, just

563
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: objectively clever. They said, look, we have to convince a

564
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 1: group of people that vastly outnumbers us that we are

565
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: deserving of our privileged position. If we are the be all,

566
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: end all authority, then of course someone else will eventually

567
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,240
Speaker 1: want to topple us and the last why so let's

568
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 1: not be quite the top. Let's be kind of the

569
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 1: middle management. Let's like, let's think of earth or our

570
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: country as like a call center, right, Puss, And we're

571
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 1: in charge of the call center. We're the boss of

572
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 1: the earthly things. But we're only the boss because the

573
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 1: real boss is God, and the real boss will get

574
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 1: mad at you if you don't do what we say.

575
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,399
Speaker 1: So they did like this really clever middle management thing

576
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: before that was really middle management, and uh, that's interesting

577
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 1: to think about it that way. And then they you know,

578
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: you have to It doesn't matter if you physically outnumber

579
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 1: this privileged class, because what really matters is that when

580
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 1: you die, no matter how you die, you will have

581
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,800
Speaker 1: to talk to the boss's boss, And if the boss's

582
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 1: boss finds out you weren't good to your supervisor, then

583
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 1: be in trouble forever. That's crazy. I thought it was

584
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: very clever. No, it's extremely clever. No. I didn't mean

585
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:12,399
Speaker 1: to discount by using the C word there. I just, uh,

586
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: it's a thought I haven't had before. Um using God

587
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 1: as you know, whether you believe it or not, as

588
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 1: the as the your boss as the boss that is God.

589
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: That's fascinating. Well okay, okay, I'll go with you there.

590
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: And I think that's really clever if that's really what

591
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: it was for. And again, that's the way it feels,

592
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:44,320
Speaker 1: right looking back from forty feet the way we can now, Um,

593
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: it feels as though a monarchy if even if it

594
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 1: wasn't purposefully done in a conspiratorial way to convince the

595
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 1: masses that there that you know, the monarchy's power was

596
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: real and worth it and not worth fighting against because

597
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: of God. Even if even if that wasn't a conspiracy

598
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: to get you to believe that, they still really did

599
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,919
Speaker 1: use it effectively in that way? Didn't they any any

600
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 1: and all monarchy's or you know, supreme leaders of any sort? Yeah,

601
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 1: I mean, because like the closest modern evolutionary analog we

602
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 1: would have to something like that would be an oligarchy

603
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 1: or a technocracy. Right. But the thing with the monarch system,

604
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: the system of monarchy, is that spiritual belief as a

605
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 1: control mechanism doesn't really require the people profiting from that

606
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:43,399
Speaker 1: belief to believe in it themselves, you know. Um, that's

607
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 1: not to say these folks exactly. I love your point

608
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:50,359
Speaker 1: because we're not saying that these folks were intentionally and

609
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 1: cynically doing this. You know, um, if you are, if

610
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 1: you were born into a system that teaches you that

611
00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: you're better than other people, and you're supposed to be

612
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: better than other people, psychology proves you have a very

613
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: high likelihood of just accepting that. It makes sense, you

614
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 1: know what I mean. I always think about that Monopoly study, right,

615
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 1: Remember that I do. I do remember that when you're winning,

616
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 1: it feels like you you did all this stuff to win.

617
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: You deserve it all because you're working really hard and

618
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 1: you're doing great. And the more the more wealthy you

619
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: are and better off you are, the more you feel

620
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 1: like you deserve it. M yep. To our our earlier

621
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 1: work on was we just phrased it as a very

622
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: simple question, to be wealthy make you a horrible person

623
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: or something that yes, the answer is it makes it

624
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: easy to be a horrible person for sure. Just for

625
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: background on that real quick. The experiment, which was conducted

626
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,320
Speaker 1: at you see, Berkeley, was a series of experiments uh

627
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 1: involved having people play rigged games of monopoly. Monopoly is

628
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 1: already a broken version of something called the landlord game, right,

629
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: the Landlord's game, mind you. Uh so that's rent from

630
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: everybody and you make all the money. Right, it's uh

631
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 1: it's the original version of monopoly that had a third

632
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 1: round that was all about teaching people the dangers of

633
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: un of unrestrained capitalism, right, and so so when it

634
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: was stolen from the lady who invented it, the business

635
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 1: that propagated it just removed that last round. It's just right, exactly.

636
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:40,359
Speaker 1: Uh So Monopoly. Here's how the experiment went. It would

637
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 1: have groups of people, random people who didn't really know

638
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 1: each other, playing games of Monopoly together, and one randomly

639
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: chosen player in a game would be given some advantages

640
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 1: twice as much money to start out with more than

641
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 1: two dice to roll with, more access to resources, so

642
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 1: you get more bonus points for passing go and said

643
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: two hundred dollars to get like four or five hundred

644
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 1: or something. And the goal was to study how people

645
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 1: behaved in these games. Here's what they found. They found

646
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 1: that naturally, most people who got these uh these these

647
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 1: cheat codes early on, they won, they won the game.

648
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,439
Speaker 1: It would be difficult for them to lose the game.

649
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 1: And the weird part is when they asked these people

650
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 1: after the game, they asked them, Hey, why do you

651
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 1: think you won? Do you think it had anything to

652
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 1: do with the way the game was rigged in your favor?

653
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 1: They said, well, you know, maybe that had a little

654
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 1: bit to do it. Maybe it had a little bit

655
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 1: to do with it. But uh, turns out I'm an

656
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 1: expert at Monopoly. I am just super super good at it,

657
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: and I've played it before and this is just my experience,

658
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. The game is the game.

659
00:43:55,760 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 1: I don't I don't make the rules part. It's just

660
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 1: landed in my lap. It's not my fault. I mean,

661
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,280
Speaker 1: I just got there pretty easily, and I have the funds.

662
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 1: Why don't Why don't these other people just not be

663
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 1: poor at the beginning of the game. That's what I

664
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,800
Speaker 1: would have done. That's like, that's that's literally the reasoning.

665
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: There's a very interesting study. I know we're getting off topic,

666
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 1: but we're saying the same kind of psychology applies, and

667
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: so if you are in a situation this is of course, Look,

668
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 1: members of monarchies are not necessarily bad people. They're humans

669
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: just like anybody else for the most part, and of course,

670
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 1: they're going to be threatened by something any kind of

671
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 1: organization that proposes to change the status quo. If the

672
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,280
Speaker 1: status quo is profitable for them, that just makes sense.

673
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 1: So that's why, that's why Masonry was being intact. We

674
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 1: have to remember that the idea of attacking groups that

675
00:44:55,040 --> 00:45:00,800
Speaker 1: were a little more secular or addressed religion in spirituality

676
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:05,320
Speaker 1: in a different way. They were being intact, sure, because

677
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: it was seen as sort of a heretical stance, but

678
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 1: it was a heretical stance because it was threatening the

679
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 1: economic benefit of the people who profited from that current

680
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 1: concept of God. So yeah, it makes sense, Yeah it does.

681
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:26,240
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of it on the individual level though,

682
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 1: and it totally doesn't make sense what you're saying. Then,

683
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:34,280
Speaker 1: where there is there's a reason for the status quota

684
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 1: fight back against something like freemasonry, But you know, on

685
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 1: the religious side, I think the individual person is going

686
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,800
Speaker 1: to also fight back against it for that heretical stance

687
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 1: or from that heretical stance, because it's different, right, And

688
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 1: anytime you've got something that is different outside of the

689
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 1: normal or what is considered to be normal, you're going

690
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 1: to have some kind of initial reaction at least of

691
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 1: aversion to it, because it's you know, that's not what

692
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: we're supposed to do. I'm not supposed to do that. Well,

693
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:10,839
Speaker 1: why do you get to do that? And why why

694
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 1: are you doing that? UM? I just think that's also

695
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:17,399
Speaker 1: very human and natural. UM. In in this case, when

696
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 1: we're talking about freemasonry, in any secret society or any

697
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 1: club private club for that matter, there is this thing

698
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:31,360
Speaker 1: that comes along with it, which is connection, which is socializing,

699
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 1: which is having that secret handshake together that we're talking about,

700
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,479
Speaker 1: which is you know, even if we're just talking about

701
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: congress or you know, people who are trying to form

702
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 1: a congress or a new country or something, if you

703
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: are able to go up to that person and have

704
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 1: that secret handshake to let them know, oh, we have

705
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 1: shared common values. We you know, know a lot of

706
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: the same people. I can probably make another connection for you,

707
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,359
Speaker 1: or we can make these other connections, UM and get

708
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 1: things done. Really, that's what it means. I can go

709
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 1: directly to someone who was also probably wealthy and influential,

710
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 1: just like you can, and we can together gather enough forces,

711
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 1: enough people, enough intellectual and wealth power two to take

712
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 1: action UM and That's why it feels like Freemasonry played

713
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 1: a perhaps bigger part in the formation of the United

714
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 1: States than it did even though it did play a

715
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: part it did. Yeah, and I think that's very well put. Um. Also,

716
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 1: I'm a little biased because I have I have some

717
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:41,240
Speaker 1: fairly strong opinions about the dangers of nepotism, um, which

718
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 1: you know we talked about in previous episodes. But one

719
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,840
Speaker 1: thing you say that really caught my attention, Matt, is

720
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:52,839
Speaker 1: the idea of of society of communication. You know a

721
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 1: lot of people love that, right. Uh, we have to

722
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:59,720
Speaker 1: remember that these folks existed in a time before social media.

723
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:04,720
Speaker 1: Your dank memes page is, in a way a lodge.

724
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:08,839
Speaker 1: You meet with people, You communicate in the language that

725
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: you and your fellows have evolved and understand, and you

726
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 1: have a common currency of what you consider to be

727
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 1: good ideas, right or funny means. I guess Look, nobody

728
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 1: go too deep into this comparison. I'm not saying. I'm

729
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,439
Speaker 1: not saying that the Founding fathers would have just sat

730
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 1: around on meme pages if Facebook or read It was

731
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 1: around at the time. But this gave them a place

732
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 1: to hang out and chat. So it's they're not They're

733
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 1: not completely that different. And then you know, are the

734
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:42,319
Speaker 1: values of masonry is their espoused? Are they bad? Is

735
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 1: there anyone who's going to read something like that and say, well,

736
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 1: I don't want I don't want people to assemble in

737
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 1: groups peacefully. It should only be violent. Yeah, you're getting together.

738
00:48:55,719 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 1: There's got involved to me. It's it's very into LinkedIn

739
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:05,840
Speaker 1: or something um where it really is about having that

740
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 1: close connection to somebody in a completely different field, in

741
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 1: an industry who was also maybe a captain of that

742
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 1: industry that you you you essentially have at your disposal

743
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 1: a bunch of levers of influence that you can pull

744
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 1: just because of your association in that group. Um, which

745
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 1: isn't necessarily how it's always used, but it's a it's

746
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: the potential is there? Again? We want to point out

747
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 1: modern masonry does tremendous charitable work. Yeah, they They are

748
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:39,239
Speaker 1: literally saving people's lives. So all of these clubs do

749
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:41,840
Speaker 1: quantas club all of these that where you have to

750
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: become a member and you join for one reason or

751
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:51,959
Speaker 1: another won't let you in without a membership also doing

752
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 1: doing tremendous work. Sam's clubs No, but but really there's

753
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 1: there's no denying the good it in a lot of

754
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 1: these groups do. But but there's also no denying the

755
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm sorry to anyone who is a

756
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 1: member of the Mason's right now or any of these

757
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: other clubs. There is a creepy factor for anyone outside

758
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 1: of the club just because of the secrecy involved. And

759
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 1: we've talked about that numerous suns on this show, and

760
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 1: it will always be that way as long as their

761
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 1: secrecy involved in enjoining and what happens behind the doors. Yeah, yeah,

762
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 1: the rum where it happens without transparency, speculation thrives, and

763
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,879
Speaker 1: and there are a lot of commonalities. It would be

764
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 1: it would be naive to actually wouldn't even be naive.

765
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 1: It would be dishonest to look at the values proposed

766
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:49,360
Speaker 1: by the Founding Fathers and the values espoused by Masonry

767
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 1: and say that there was zero overlap. I would just

768
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 1: be that's a that's a shell game. But off the bats,

769
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 1: we were reaching the end of part one of our

770
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 1: Secrets of the Founding Fathers, and off the bat, so

771
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: far we just talked about two absolutely true, incredibly crazy,

772
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 1: somewhat disturbing aspects of this group. Tune in for our

773
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,280
Speaker 1: follow up episode later this week, where we dive into

774
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 1: even stranger sees. Uh we spilled the tea. Don't don't

775
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 1: spill the tea. It took a long time for that

776
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 1: to steep. I can hear my dog in the background

777
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:34,840
Speaker 1: as well. Wow, just lots of things happening in my

778
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,400
Speaker 1: background today. Um, and we very much look forward to

779
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 1: hearing what you out there have to say about this,

780
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 1: what you think about everything we've discussed in today's episode.

781
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 1: And we also, uh, you know, hope you'll hang in

782
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 1: there for next week when we go deeper and deeper

783
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 1: into this sea has been put it of conspira see crazy. Okay, Uh,

784
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: this is really weird stuff though, so so do tune

785
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 1: in and as Matt said, let us know what you think.

786
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,840
Speaker 1: You can find us all over the place, you know,

787
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:10,720
Speaker 1: crossroads at midnight, say the right words into a mirror

788
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 1: in the dark, or find us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram,

789
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 1: you know, whichever of those is easiest for you. I've

790
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 1: got a great page called Here's where it Gets Crazy,

791
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 1: where you can hang out with the best part of

792
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 1: this show, our fellow listeners. If you hate sipping the

793
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 1: social meads, if it's if it's too if social media

794
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:33,879
Speaker 1: itself is too much of a conspiracy for you, then

795
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 1: we have another way you can contact us. That's correct.

796
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 1: I've never been a big fan of the social meds.

797
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 1: I always feel like it's too sweet. It's just not

798
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:45,360
Speaker 1: it doesn't really, it's not the same. You're not a

799
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 1: You're not a sweet meads a guy. Unsweet meads, unsweet

800
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:54,240
Speaker 1: social meds. Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm done with the unsweet

801
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 1: social meds. But also all the honey involved in. You know,

802
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 1: anytime you're gonna make an alcoholic beverage out of honey,

803
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 1: I don't. I just let's not do it. You're a

804
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 1: root beer guy. This has been established. There we go

805
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 1: sasaparilla all day or whatever the stuff is that you

806
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:14,359
Speaker 1: make root beer out of. Yeah, you you can call us.

807
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 1: We have a number. It is one eight three three

808
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 1: st d w y t K. You will here Ben

809
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 1: and then he will say here's where it gets crazy,

810
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 1: and then you can leave your message. And when you

811
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:29,319
Speaker 1: leave that message, please tell us whether or not you're

812
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 1: okay with us using that message in one of our

813
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:35,799
Speaker 1: listener mail episodes. And uh, make sure you tell us

814
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 1: what we can use your name or not. Just your

815
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:39,839
Speaker 1: first name generally is probably the right way to go.

816
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 1: And if you've got a nickname that we think is

817
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:45,919
Speaker 1: cool and we'll we'll we'll give you a shout out

818
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 1: for it, don't don't be afraid to get weird with it.

819
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 1: My favorite one still is our our trucker friend, who

820
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:56,840
Speaker 1: was just howling with laughter as he was asking us

821
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 1: these questions. Dude, if you are out there, thank you. Still.

822
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:04,240
Speaker 1: I regularly listen to that one. He's got a couple

823
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 1: now that we've got and they're they're wonderful, So yeah,

824
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 1: thank you. Please continue to do that. If you want

825
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 1: to become a character that leaves messages on a frequent basis,

826
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 1: that's fun too. We're into it. And if none of

827
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 1: that quite founds your father's then we have one other way.

828
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 1: You can always contact us, regardless of time, space or place.

829
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:32,359
Speaker 1: That is our email address where we are conspiracy at

830
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 1: i heart radio dot com. Stuff they Don't Want You

831
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:56,400
Speaker 1: to Know is a production of I heart Radio. For

832
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:58,879
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart

833
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

834
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 1: favorite shows.