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Speaker 1: Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio podcast.

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Speaker 2: All Right, our special guests this week, We've got Macy Neelion.

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Speaker 2: She is one of the stars from the Hulu docu

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Speaker 2: series The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, and she's got

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Speaker 2: a new book out where she talks about grief, domestic violence,

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Speaker 2: and I mean, we've got to ask about Taylor being

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Speaker 2: the bachelorette too, and being a protective friend and the

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Speaker 2: fact that she's one of my favorites.

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Speaker 3: Okay, let's get her on. Hi, Macey, how are.

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Speaker 4: You g I'm good, How are you doing well?

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Speaker 3: Good to chat again.

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Speaker 4: Yes, it's been a minute, but like a year, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah it has been. I weren't here, Hie. I don't know,

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Speaker 3: but I'm sad. I'm happy I get you today.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, here we are, let's do it.

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Speaker 3: Whitney's my only mom talker.

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Speaker 2: Yeah we had when we had Whitney here, Christen's like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, and I was like, come on, like

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Speaker 2: you just got to like meet her in person, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: I didn't know. I mean, first season was kind of

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Speaker 2: a loop for she threw us a loop on that

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Speaker 2: first season.

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Speaker 4: Oh for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, No, first season was well, they're all wild. My

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Speaker 1: first season was wild, but like they're all kind of

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Speaker 1: like that, so like nothing shocks me anymore.

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Speaker 3: So, yeah, how old your baby now?

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Speaker 4: She's like almost three months.

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Speaker 3: I was postpartum this time around as far.

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Speaker 1: As like mentally, I'm well and unwell at the same time.

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Speaker 1: And I say that because I don't think I have

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Speaker 1: time to even have postpartum depression or anxiety because I've

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Speaker 1: been so busy.

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Speaker 4: So that is the positive, Like that is the pro.

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Speaker 4: But also like I.

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Speaker 1: Am so busy that I'm just exhausted twenty four to

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Speaker 1: seven on top of like the kind of newborn life.

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Speaker 1: So for sure, it's been wild, but like it's been

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Speaker 1: also been really fun and I just take her everywhere.

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Speaker 2: I feel like the because I started work really fast

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Speaker 2: after my third and yeah, it's like, you know, you

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Speaker 2: try to shove down the postpartum, but I mean I

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Speaker 2: literally was crying during I was doing like an ad

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Speaker 2: on on here, Yeah, and I just started crying just randomly,

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Speaker 2: but it was I feel like it was harder the

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Speaker 2: third time around with all the I was definitely more

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Speaker 2: depressed the third time around and more anxious, which I

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Speaker 2: didn't have as much the first two and I don't

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Speaker 2: know if it's just because I was older or I'm

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Speaker 2: not sure, but there's no time to slow down, so

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Speaker 2: I think that. But but we also couldn't slow down,

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Speaker 2: and so I was like trying to like keep going.

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Speaker 3: But then I just felt depressed.

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Speaker 4: I feel like I'm just so busy. I can't even cry.

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Speaker 4: So like I'm like, it's like the what was that

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Speaker 4: movie with? Is it the holiday? Or they break up?

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Speaker 4: A boyfriend's like trying to cry?

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Speaker 1: Like that's like me because I'm like I feel like

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Speaker 1: I could cry all the time, but.

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Speaker 4: I'm like I can't. I have time.

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Speaker 2: What was the hardest for you chapter wise in your

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Speaker 2: book that you wrote about, because I feel like you've

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Speaker 2: gone through a lot You've had, Yeah, I mean you've

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Speaker 2: it's been a lot.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean it's hard to say.

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Speaker 1: I always say there's two different sections that are really

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Speaker 1: hard to write, and I'd say, like the abuse part

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Speaker 1: was pretty hard because it's like stuff I haven't really

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Speaker 1: talked about in detail, So writing that was hard, And

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Speaker 1: I'm like, how much do I want to share?

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Speaker 4: You know?

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Speaker 1: Because like even then you're not sharing like every little detail,

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Speaker 1: which the book would be forever long. But so that

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Speaker 1: was difficult for me, like mentally, but then like it

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Speaker 1: just like made me angry when I'd write about it.

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Speaker 1: And then when I would write about the grief of

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Speaker 1: losing my son's father, that made be like really sad.

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Speaker 1: So like when I proof read the book, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I did it like six times. Obviously reading about again

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Speaker 1: reading the grief part of it, like losing my son's

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Speaker 1: father was just like so hard, like it was I

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Speaker 1: couldn't even get through reading it. So I'm surprised I

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Speaker 1: got through the audiobook because I was like, oh my

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Speaker 1: goshdn't I'm gonna cred in the audiobook.

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Speaker 4: It's going to take forever.

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Speaker 1: And luckily I did it, especially because I recorded that

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Speaker 1: like three weeks postpartum the audiobook, so I was like, oof.

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Speaker 1: So I feel like, yeah, it's funny like listening to

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Speaker 1: it myself. Part of me one day would love to

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Speaker 1: go back and reread it. But you know, because it

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Speaker 1: was so fresh, like after having a baby, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm reading it now. I'm like it could have been

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Speaker 1: like I could have done a little better, but I'm

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Speaker 1: always hard on myself anyways.

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Speaker 2: So it's interesting you you touch on the DV part.

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Speaker 2: So I'm also a DV victim. And I always say

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Speaker 2: I don't talk about it that much, and it's, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I talk about I mean so.

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Speaker 3: Many things, many things.

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Speaker 2: Things you know about infidelity and you know, I mean

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Speaker 2: all of that, and it's but it's and I say

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Speaker 2: it every time because we we always dedicate October we

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Speaker 2: do some DV episodes and it's it's always the hardest

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Speaker 2: topic for me to talk about. And I and I

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Speaker 2: think because it I think it carries shame. I think

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Speaker 2: it carries a piece of like God, I can't believe

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Speaker 2: I allowed that to happen. And it's just it is,

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Speaker 2: it's just so hard to talk about. But it's so

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Speaker 2: good to talk about it for other people too to

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Speaker 2: know that it's not okay. So thank you for speaking

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Speaker 2: up about it. And also for you, I mean, is

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Speaker 2: it do you not also talk about it as much

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Speaker 2: because there's a piece of shame attached to it? Or

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Speaker 2: like what what are your kind of feelings around not

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Speaker 2: talking about it as much?

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Speaker 4: I think it's that too.

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Speaker 1: It's like there's shame around it exactly how you said,

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Speaker 1: like how did I allow this to happen?

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Speaker 4: Like you almost feel dumb talking.

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Speaker 1: About it because other people who haven't been in it,

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Speaker 1: they're like, oh, it's so obvious, like how did you

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Speaker 1: not know? And it's like, you don't know unless if

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Speaker 1: you're in it, because it's like it starts very small,

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Speaker 1: like little things, and it builds up to where then

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Speaker 1: it does become obvious. So I think that's why some

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Speaker 1: people just don't understand.

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Speaker 4: But also just because it's like uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: I feel like sometimes when you talk about DV, it

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Speaker 1: makes other people feel awkward and you're saying things and

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Speaker 1: I guess, like it shouldn't matter because it's a real thing,

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Speaker 1: but sometimes other people feel like very uncomfortable when you

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Speaker 1: do talk about it, and they don't know what to

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Speaker 1: say and do, and so sometimes I just don't want

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Speaker 1: to put people.

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Speaker 4: In those situations, I guess.

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Speaker 1: But when you write it down, it's like they're reading

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Speaker 1: and they can process it however they want, like I

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Speaker 1: don't have to sit there and talk to them about it,

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Speaker 1: which so I think it makes it a little bit

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Speaker 1: easier to do it that way. But when people understand,

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Speaker 1: they get it and they know, so it's like it's

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Speaker 1: easy to talk about people.

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Speaker 2: Who have been through it, right, No, I remember doing

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Speaker 2: the same thing writing it in my book. It's like

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Speaker 2: talking about my story hiding in the bushes, you know,

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Speaker 2: about to be strangled like people.

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Speaker 3: It's like that's like a light.

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Speaker 2: Conversations, you know, that's right, right, Yeah, it's it's hard

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Speaker 2: to it's hard to even put those into speaking words,

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Speaker 2: like you said, like reading the audiobook was so challenged

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Speaker 2: because it's like wow, you know, but it is. There

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Speaker 2: is something therapeutic of getting that down. So did you

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Speaker 2: feel a release being able to to talk about it

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Speaker 2: and get that out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know for sure, because I feel like I've

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Speaker 1: hit it for so long. And I did talk about

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Speaker 1: it a little bit in a blog that I wrote

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Speaker 1: years ago, but even then it was like barely scratching

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Speaker 1: the surface of it. So telling it more in detail,

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, it's therapeutic for me. But also

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Speaker 1: sometimes it's hard to bear it all and say all

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Speaker 1: the things that happened. Like my my dad read it

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Speaker 1: and he was like obviously, like didn't know a lot

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Speaker 1: of the details, and he was like really upset, obviously.

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Speaker 1: And then my book book to my mom and dad

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Speaker 1: came and my mom was like in Europe, when I

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Speaker 1: gave him the book, so she hadn't read it yet,

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Speaker 1: and so we went to New York for the book tour.

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Speaker 4: My dad's like don't.

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Speaker 1: He's like, I want you to read it before the

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Speaker 1: book tour, Like I want you to read it after

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Speaker 1: because like the first like one hundred pages are really

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Speaker 1: going to upset you, he told my mom.

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Speaker 4: And so she did start reading it after. My dad's like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: she's not been happy like reading this.

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Speaker 1: And it makes sense, you know, because like they didn't

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Speaker 1: know what was going on. I think as parents sometimes

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Speaker 1: they probably feel guilt, like I wish it could have

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Speaker 1: helped her don this, Like you can't if you don't know.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing. Yeah, my parents would say the

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Speaker 2: same thing. Even when I went home and I was

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Speaker 2: all scraped up and bruised. It's like I still didn't

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Speaker 2: tell them what actually happened, you know, And it's like

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Speaker 2: once they found out later, it was like, why didn't

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Speaker 2: you say anything. I'm like, cause a were made to

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Speaker 2: feel like we deserved it, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 2: that we were the problem in it, and that you know,

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Speaker 2: and too afraid to say it too, that I've messed

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Speaker 2: up my life, that I'm here, you know. So it's

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Speaker 2: like when we know our parents are there. And that's

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Speaker 2: the thing, if anyone's listening and going through that, like please,

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Speaker 2: there are your friends, your family, they're there to help you,

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Speaker 2: and you're not crazy, and you don't deserve it exactly.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's what's hard, because when you're going

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Speaker 1: through it, there is something weird inside of you that

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Speaker 1: like you don't want to tell people and I can't

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Speaker 1: tell anyone what it is, but I know what it

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Speaker 1: feels like to be like you can't say anything, and

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Speaker 1: for me, as being blackmailed, I couldn't really say anything,

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Speaker 1: so I didn't want to get in trouble and get

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Speaker 1: kicked out of school. But like there are certain situations

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Speaker 1: where I probably could have told a friend, you know,

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Speaker 1: they wouldn't have told the school, you know, but like

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Speaker 1: it's still like you get so isolated that you don't

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Speaker 1: feel comfortable telling even your closest friends, which is crazy,

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Speaker 1: but like they are so good at manipulating you and

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Speaker 1: gaslighting you into thinking like, oh I deserve this and

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Speaker 1: this is like normal when it's not.

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Speaker 2: So I went and then continued on to be with

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Speaker 2: people where I'd have to that were abusers that I'd hide,

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Speaker 2: you know, their bruise marks on my arms. I'd even

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Speaker 2: be on a red carpet with the bruisemark on my

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Speaker 2: arm and you know where it's like, oh yeah, I

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Speaker 2: just you know, hit myself, but for you. So I

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Speaker 2: followed and I didn't. I still thought that's what I deserved,

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Speaker 2: kept picking the wrong people. What did you do to

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Speaker 2: change your trajectory to Like, was that your one and

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Speaker 2: only or was there more after because a lot of

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Speaker 2: people fell back into abusive relationships.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, that was my one and only.

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Speaker 1: I think it's because I it was after the relationship

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Speaker 1: where I googled like everything that was happening, like I

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Speaker 1: didn't even know for sure as being abused, because like

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Speaker 1: that's how manipulated I was, and so I had to

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Speaker 1: like google it. And then like when I googled it,

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Speaker 1: I like everything that was like on this like list

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Speaker 1: I think it was on DV website. There was like

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Speaker 1: ten things in the last fifteen and I was like

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Speaker 1: I could check off every single one, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, Like that's when I hit me that

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Speaker 1: like this is happening to me.

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Speaker 4: And so I think since I was.

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Speaker 1: Like aware of it once I was out of it,

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Speaker 1: Like what actually happened that, Like I didn't choose that

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Speaker 1: same person, but like I also think I guess got

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Speaker 1: lucky in a way because the next person that came

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Speaker 1: into my life just happened to like we just happened

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Speaker 1: to meet and like hit it off, and like obviously

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Speaker 1: he was the opposite of my abuser. It still wasn't

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Speaker 1: like a perfect relationship, but like, since I was so

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Speaker 1: trapped in the one before, I wanted like the opposite

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Speaker 1: of that, and so I had the opposite, which was

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Speaker 1: like almost like an open relationship, even though it wasn't

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Speaker 1: like open. It was just very free and like relaxed,

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Speaker 1: and I could do whatever I wanted and so could he.

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Speaker 1: And like so I think I just chose the exact

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Speaker 1: opposite of what I had because I just wanted to

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Speaker 1: feel free.

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Speaker 4: Although like we were in.

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Speaker 1: Nineteen, we're so young, Like that wasn't you know, it

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Speaker 1: was a great relationship, but it wasn't the same time,

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Speaker 1: Like it's not I don't know if.

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Speaker 4: It would have ever worked out long term.

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Speaker 1: To be honest, but I think after he passed away

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Speaker 1: then it was kind of like I went through so

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Speaker 1: much mentally, and when I got back into dating again,

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Speaker 1: I knew having a kid like that's what changed, like

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Speaker 1: who I wanted. Like once I had a child, I

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Speaker 1: was like, okay, Like you're not going for the bad

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Speaker 1: boys anymore. You're not going for like we're changing our type,

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Speaker 1: Like we're not going to be going through the.

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Speaker 4: Same things again.

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Speaker 1: And I think like since I was a little bit

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Speaker 1: further removed from the abusive one, I was like, I

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Speaker 1: will never be a part of that again. Like I

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Speaker 1: knew the red flags and I was out of it

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Speaker 1: long enough to never.

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Speaker 4: Like choose it again.

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Speaker 1: I think for me, but I know it's hard and

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Speaker 1: sometimes people do choose the same people over and over again.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, is that why you were maybe a little had

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Speaker 2: some red flags with certain people or men on the

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Speaker 2: show the first season, because now I'm like, interesting, I'm

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Speaker 2: saying the same thing what you know and knowing behaviors

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Speaker 2: and patterns. There was a specific person on the show

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Speaker 2: that you definitely was like, no, this is not and

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Speaker 2: you were so protective over your friends.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and people on the outset are like, she's obsessed

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Speaker 1: with their relationship.

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Speaker 4: What's wrong with her? She wants him I'm.

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Speaker 1: Like, uh, absolutely not quite the opposite. It's because I

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Speaker 1: could see it and I was like, I don't and

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Speaker 1: I think for me, like I have gone through it,

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Speaker 1: if I can prevent someone else, like another woman, from

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Speaker 1: going through that, that helps me feel better about what

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Speaker 1: happened to me, Like it helps me in my situation,

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Speaker 1: even heal, Like it's like.

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Speaker 4: That gives me purpose.

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Speaker 1: If I can prevent it from happening again to a

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Speaker 1: friend or like another woman, like that gives me purpose.

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Speaker 1: And so with her, it's like not like I was

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Speaker 1: obsessed or anything, but like when you see it and

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Speaker 1: it's so clear to you, like help, let me help

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Speaker 1: you before it gets worse.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: But you know, being in that situation, nobody can help you,

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Speaker 2: like truly, like unless you are able to acknowledge what's happening,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's what's really hard, is like.

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Speaker 3: Watching your friends go through It's like.

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Speaker 1: Now on the outside, I see it so clearly, and

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Speaker 1: I'm like please, like just.

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Speaker 3: Like you're like jumping up and down. You're like he is, yeah, yeah, Like.

304
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Speaker 1: I it's so frustrating, Like I don't think I've ever

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Speaker 1: been more frustrated in my life.

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Speaker 2: And like it.

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Speaker 1: I honestly like consumed me for a bit because I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh my gosh, like it is.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So I had to kind of just like let

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Speaker 4: it go, like I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I kind of did season two a little bit like

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Speaker 1: season three, and I was like, I have to just

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Speaker 1: remove myself because like if I don't, it's gonna like

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Speaker 1: keep me up at night, Like so I have to

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Speaker 1: just protect myself at the end.

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Speaker 2: Of the daynas that you would be there when she's

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Speaker 2: ready to come to you, which I'm curious now, like

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Speaker 2: I have to ask, like now that she's going to

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Speaker 2: be the Bachelorette, I mean the vetting process, like do

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Speaker 2: you just want to sit in there on all of them.

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Speaker 2: I have to assume that they're going to have like

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Speaker 2: a mom to talk like a board of advisors.

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Speaker 3: This is what we mean.

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Speaker 4: They haven't told us that they are.

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Speaker 2: But I'm like that would be the silliest decision in

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Speaker 2: TV history if they didn't have you guys, like a

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Speaker 2: hometown date or so.

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Speaker 1: I know exactly, like especially me, because I like I've

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Speaker 1: been through Taylor's relationships, like with her from the beginning,

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Speaker 1: like like I can see the red flags very obviously

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Speaker 1: and like, let me help you.

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Speaker 4: So, I mean, we'll see. I don't know if they will,

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Speaker 4: but I think it'd be smart.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 2: I think in that setting too, I'm like, imagine being

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Speaker 2: the Bachelorette, you were getting these guys best sides because

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Speaker 2: they're on TV there. It's I mean, you know, just

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Speaker 2: when you start dating anyone, you see their best versions.

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Speaker 2: They're not going to be coming. How they rustle down? Yeah,

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00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,719
Speaker 2: so hard. When Janama Allen, we were like, we'll see

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Speaker 2: about this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Well, and it's too because I think the thing that

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Speaker 5: is really common in domestic violence that people miss the most,

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Speaker 5: and not every situation is the same, but in my experience,

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Speaker 5: I feel like the minute you start to call someone out,

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Speaker 5: they do their best to isolate the victim from you,

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Speaker 5: because if you're a voice of reason or a voice

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Speaker 5: of courage or a voice of strength, then you're automatically

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Speaker 5: a threat. And so then it's like divide the friendship,

352
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,080
Speaker 5: break the friendship. Yeah, and so you know that too,

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Speaker 5: And it would be interesting to see what red flags

354
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Speaker 5: you get, even just from in general if these guys

355
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Speaker 5: are good guys, but specifically the domestic violence piece of that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, No, for sure, And that's exactly right.

357
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Speaker 1: It's like they as soon as they sense, like an

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Speaker 1: abuser senses that you're onto them, they try to isolate

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Speaker 1: from that friendship and be like, oh, she's not a

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00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,120
Speaker 1: good friend, or like she did this, Like they just

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Speaker 1: try to isolate them in ways to where like they

362
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Speaker 1: feel like the only person they can turn to.

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Speaker 4: Is their abuser.

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Speaker 1: And I've seen that happen a lot with you know,

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Speaker 1: the people in the show.

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Speaker 2: With your book was like the number one message that

367
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Speaker 2: you wanted people to get from from your book.

368
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Speaker 1: For me, I want them to read it and feel like,

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Speaker 1: no matter what I've been through, no matter what mistakes

370
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Speaker 1: I've made, that does not define me, and I can

371
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Speaker 1: be whoever I want to be, no matter what like

372
00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,040
Speaker 1: society says, stereotypes say, like, you can be whoever you

373
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Speaker 1: want and accomplish your dreams no matter what anyone says.

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Speaker 1: And so I hopefully you're feeling like inspired by that.

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Speaker 3: I mean you're thirty years old, is that right?

376
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:47,800
Speaker 4: Yeah?

377
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,400
Speaker 5: I mean you're stunning. But the life that you have

378
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:55,720
Speaker 5: lived may see like the amount of chapters seasons deep grief, loss,

379
00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:00,800
Speaker 5: abuse like same, right, entrepreneur like you you have done

380
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,360
Speaker 5: it all so quickly. Yeah, so what is if you

381
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Speaker 5: could pick one thing for future Macy, like five years

382
00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,200
Speaker 5: from now, where is Macy in her ideal world? Like

383
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,440
Speaker 5: you just pretend no one else is listening, and you

384
00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:15,840
Speaker 5: just get to say, like I want to know, like

385
00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:17,400
Speaker 5: the depth, where are we?

386
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:19,760
Speaker 1: That's what's hard for me because I feel like since

387
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:21,840
Speaker 1: I've hit such a big goal for myself, like this

388
00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,400
Speaker 1: book for me has been like my ten year goal

389
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Speaker 1: that I'm automatically someone who's like what's next, and like

390
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:30,800
Speaker 1: right now, I actually don't know what that is.

391
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Speaker 4: Like I have interests, like.

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Speaker 1: I have hobbies like for me, I have a big

393
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,880
Speaker 1: interest in like hosting, Like I'd love to like host

394
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Speaker 1: a dating show, honestly, like I could see the red flags,

395
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Speaker 1: like I think I'd be good, Like I think that

396
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,600
Speaker 1: would be so fun. So that's something that I definitely

397
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Speaker 1: think I would consider. I would love to write another book,

398
00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,160
Speaker 1: for sure. So I think those two things are the

399
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,360
Speaker 1: things that like right now, I'm like, this was what

400
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,360
Speaker 1: I would love to do. But I'm like obviously open

401
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,640
Speaker 1: to like anything, any opportunities. I'm someone who's like learned

402
00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:00,400
Speaker 1: to say yes to things that scare me, even the

403
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,840
Speaker 1: reality show, Like when it was first offered, I was like, ooh,

404
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:05,520
Speaker 1: like I don't know if I want to do this,

405
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:08,679
Speaker 1: Like I was like, this like really scares me. And

406
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:10,639
Speaker 1: then I told myself, I was like, well, let's do

407
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:12,720
Speaker 1: it the first season. If we hate it, we just

408
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:14,760
Speaker 1: won't do it again. And then I did it, and

409
00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:16,760
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, like, you know, I had a

410
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:18,679
Speaker 1: good time. I could slip at night, you know, like

411
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:20,560
Speaker 1: I wasn't like stressed out too.

412
00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:22,720
Speaker 4: Much, you know, And so I was like, let's keep

413
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:22,960
Speaker 4: doing it.

414
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,760
Speaker 1: Obviously it was really successful, which was honestly shocking I

415
00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,119
Speaker 1: think for most of us to see how successful it was.

416
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,240
Speaker 1: And so I've like learned now to be like, let's

417
00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:34,399
Speaker 1: take opportunities even if they scare us, and then if

418
00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,080
Speaker 1: we don't like it, we don't have to keep doing it.

419
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,399
Speaker 4: And so I think I'm just open to the possibilities.

420
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,000
Speaker 4: I think anything would be really fun.

421
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:43,480
Speaker 2: Dancing with the stars. I mean, you got Wit and

422
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:45,879
Speaker 2: Gen doing it. Would would that be something you would do?

423
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,520
Speaker 1: I mean it's not on my radar as far as

424
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,680
Speaker 1: like something I would love to do. To be honest,

425
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:55,640
Speaker 1: I am like not a dancer, you guys would be surprised, like, yes,

426
00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:57,600
Speaker 1: I'm on mom Talk and I do that, but like

427
00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,359
Speaker 1: I'm in the back of the group dances. I'm like,

428
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,000
Speaker 1: if you want to do a dancer sending it to

429
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Speaker 1: me like seven business days, yeah, no, wait.

430
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,000
Speaker 5: I'm Macy, I'm I actually am just like floored that

431
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,080
Speaker 5: you can do any of those, Like I literally I

432
00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:12,040
Speaker 5: have one eighth of whatever it is that you have,

433
00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,520
Speaker 5: no nothing. If usher comes on, I'm handling business, but

434
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,840
Speaker 5: I can't do like a five, six, seven, eight, no

435
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,280
Speaker 5: saying so I would be like, say, GLEB wouldn't even count,

436
00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:22,600
Speaker 5: like you were just hunny.

437
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,560
Speaker 2: You looked like a dream on dancing with the stone. No, no,

438
00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,119
Speaker 2: no no, but like I couldn't. I didn't get the

439
00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:30,840
Speaker 2: beat and I couldn't put my toys.

440
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,639
Speaker 1: I legit would be so embarrassed, So I think, like

441
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,680
Speaker 1: what I say, no, probably not Like I'd probably be like, okay,

442
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:38,960
Speaker 1: I'm open to it, but it wouldn't be an immediate

443
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:43,080
Speaker 1: yes for me because I literally, guys, I'd be so embarrassed,

444
00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,160
Speaker 1: Like I would probably have the worst anxiety every week.

445
00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,360
Speaker 1: I'd have to take a beta blocker to get through it,

446
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:48,160
Speaker 1: because like.

447
00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,439
Speaker 5: The great news you only do one episode because they

448
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,240
Speaker 5: would probably vote you off, right, and they.

449
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,920
Speaker 1: Just vote me off because I am not a dancer

450
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,919
Speaker 1: by any means. I'm very competitive and I am like

451
00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,320
Speaker 1: an athlete. That was like, well, you were a ten player,

452
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,159
Speaker 1: but I'm like, yeah, but I'm running around chasing a

453
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,640
Speaker 1: fuzzy ball. I'm not like hiding my footsteps, like yeah,

454
00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,440
Speaker 1: we do footwork, but I'm like, it's not like a dancer.

455
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:10,600
Speaker 1: So I'm like, I don't know, like I would still

456
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:12,800
Speaker 1: not Yeah, i'd be open to it, but it's not

457
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:13,960
Speaker 1: like it'd be like, yeah.

458
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:14,480
Speaker 4: I'm so excited.

459
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:16,720
Speaker 2: Do you vote for both or do you just vote

460
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:18,280
Speaker 2: for none? Like what how do you do that?

461
00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,639
Speaker 4: You guys know me, I vote for both. I go

462
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,800
Speaker 4: even Lee. I think I think it's ten votes total.

463
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:25,760
Speaker 4: Someone's like, no, it's twenty, but I was doing.

464
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:27,520
Speaker 1: Five and five every week, so I thought it was ten,

465
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:29,080
Speaker 1: So I don't know if it's ten or twenty. But

466
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,480
Speaker 1: I go five and five, So you know, I'm like,

467
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:34,919
Speaker 1: call me a fence writer or whatever. But I'm like

468
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:36,879
Speaker 1: it's like too hard, Like I want them both to

469
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:37,920
Speaker 1: succeed and like win.

470
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,080
Speaker 2: That's what I've always loved about you. Though, like You've

471
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:45,520
Speaker 2: always like, whenever I watch a show like you just you,

472
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,520
Speaker 2: you are so kind and like yeah, people are like, oh, yeah,

473
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,720
Speaker 2: she plays both sides, but that's great, Like that's great,

474
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,639
Speaker 2: Like you you were kind and you hear both sides

475
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,480
Speaker 2: and you're not You're not out to be nasty or

476
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,199
Speaker 2: trying to start drama or like that's what I just

477
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,800
Speaker 2: I'm always like, may say, she's like she's.

478
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,480
Speaker 5: Such a sharp discernment to me too, which I also love.

479
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,280
Speaker 5: But I think that's probably because of your lived experience

480
00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:08,080
Speaker 5: being so deep.

481
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think even for that, like people are like, oh,

482
00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:12,320
Speaker 1: she plays both sides.

483
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,200
Speaker 4: In my head, I'm like, well, I don't. I feel

484
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:15,119
Speaker 4: like I'm neutral for me.

485
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,199
Speaker 1: It's like I feel like if I was playing both sides,

486
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,280
Speaker 1: I'd be hearing one person's side and being like, oh

487
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:20,760
Speaker 1: she said this and then like that.

488
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,119
Speaker 4: To me is like playing both sides.

489
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,320
Speaker 1: For me, I'm hearing both sides and I'm like I

490
00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:29,520
Speaker 1: get it, like I understand both of you. So it's

491
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:31,560
Speaker 1: like I'm not going to choose a side because like,

492
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,600
Speaker 1: also it's hard because these are both my friends, right

493
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:36,680
Speaker 1: like in certain situations, I'm just being generic.

494
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:38,640
Speaker 4: But like it's usually two of your friends.

495
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:40,560
Speaker 1: It's not like, oh, I want to choose this friend's side,

496
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:42,119
Speaker 1: Like I just feel like it's gross. I feel like

497
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:43,680
Speaker 1: it's high school and so like I just don't want

498
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,919
Speaker 1: to be a part of that. So I try my

499
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,320
Speaker 1: best not to unless it's like morally wrong to where

500
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,200
Speaker 1: it's like yeah, that's like not okay, Like and even

501
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,040
Speaker 1: then I'm gonna be like I'm on her side. I'm

502
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:54,919
Speaker 1: like why are we Like we don't need to choose sides,

503
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,439
Speaker 1: like just have your friends and like it's.

504
00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:59,160
Speaker 3: Okay, how old is Hudson?

505
00:20:59,200 --> 00:20:59,360
Speaker 2: Now?

506
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:00,480
Speaker 4: They just ten?

507
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 3: He's just like what do you tell him about his dad?

508
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:06,639
Speaker 4: Like whatever he wants to know?

509
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:08,320
Speaker 1: Like I told him when he was I think it

510
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 1: was four, and he was just like okay, whatever, he

511
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,880
Speaker 1: didn't really care. And so I because my therapist told

512
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:15,399
Speaker 1: me the best time to tell child they have a

513
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 1: different dad was between three and five, so like, let's

514
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 1: just do four because it's right in between the two,

515
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,679
Speaker 1: and so we told him and it was just like okay,

516
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:25,960
Speaker 1: like let me put my legos, like you didn't really care.

517
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:28,920
Speaker 1: And then like over the years, it's like I don't

518
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:30,359
Speaker 1: like bring it up. To him all the time, but

519
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,560
Speaker 1: like I'll ask questions and I'll answer them, like it's

520
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,280
Speaker 1: very like open door policies, Like I haven't eyed me

521
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 1: asked questions. We answer it like I'll bring it up

522
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 1: everyone once in a while and be like, oh, isn't

523
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:40,879
Speaker 1: it cool, like you have two dads, like, you know,

524
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,480
Speaker 1: make it a really positive thing. And he's like yeah,

525
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,439
Speaker 1: And then like he knows his dad played baseball and

526
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,119
Speaker 1: he was like really good and he like was a

527
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 1: left hainted pitcher and got a scholarship and stuff like

528
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:52,880
Speaker 1: my son plays baseball now. So they go, yeah, like

529
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 1: your dad did this and he was really good, so

530
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:56,199
Speaker 1: you better work hard if you want to be like

531
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 1: good like him or you know, so stuff like that.

532
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 1: But he sees his grandparents on that side too, so

533
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 1: I bet they tell him about him. You know, he

534
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,359
Speaker 1: probably talks more about him with them, because obviously that

535
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 1: connection there. Sure, But he doesn't bring him up too

536
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:10,959
Speaker 1: often to me, And I think it's because, like it

537
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:12,120
Speaker 1: is so normal for him.

538
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,119
Speaker 4: It's not like this secret.

539
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 1: You know, where he feels like he has to ask

540
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,160
Speaker 1: these questions, you know, and because like Jacob is his dad,

541
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 1: like and that's all he knows, like since he was

542
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 1: ten months old, he's been in his life and so.

543
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 4: It's just like normal for him.

544
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:27,399
Speaker 3: I guess, yeah, is.

545
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 5: There anything he does that reminds you of your late

546
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:31,919
Speaker 5: husband where you're like, that is such a trait of

547
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 5: his it's undeniable.

548
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 1: It's it's hard to say, because my son's personality is

549
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,359
Speaker 1: like so outgoing and like wild, and it's.

550
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,919
Speaker 4: Like I have that now, but that was not me

551
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 4: as a kid.

552
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:46,199
Speaker 1: So when I think about him, I'm like, well, I

553
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 1: wonder if he's like his dad in that sense to

554
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 1: where he is very like outgoing and like not shy,

555
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,440
Speaker 1: and like he's very like witty and like just funny.

556
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: So I don't know if it's hard to say because

557
00:22:57,880 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 1: I don't know how he goes as a kid, But

558
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 1: there's certain like facial.

559
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 4: Expression sometimes where I'm like, ooh, okay, it's.

560
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 1: Like these like they like these eyebrow like expressions sometimes

561
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,239
Speaker 1: that he does where I'm like, okay, that's interesting.

562
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:12,120
Speaker 3: And how's baby mama doing.

563
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 4: It's good. Yeah, it's been good.

564
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,919
Speaker 1: It's been quite the battle to try to, you know,

565
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 1: do it every day with everything going on, like the

566
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 1: book tour, the show, being a Mom, I'm like, I'm

567
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 1: drowning because we are like a very small business.

568
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:28,360
Speaker 4: But it is really good overall.

569
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 1: It's just like it is a lot to do, like

570
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 1: when you have no like team of employees or investors.

571
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:35,880
Speaker 1: You know, we're just kind of doing it on our own,

572
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 1: and it's it's a time commitment for sure, but.

573
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 2: Hard work will pay off for sure, and you're you're

574
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 2: crushing it. So Macey, thank you so much for coming

575
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 2: on the show and watching the next season.

576
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 4: We love you. Yes, I had so much fun. Thank

577
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 4: you guys.

578
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 3: Bye Massy bye. Everyone.

579
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 2: Go get our book Told You So. It's available for

580
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 2: pre order from TikTok and The Secret Lives of Mormon

581
00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 2: Wife star Macy Neely, a deeply personal story of love, green, motherhood,

582
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 2: and resilience