WEBVTT - Nancy Wilson 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:07.640 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Bob Left Sets podcast. Very 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:11.840 special guest today Nancy Wilson, one of the founding members 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:16.040 of Heart and Edition. The guitarist also a singer. You 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:19.200 saw her dancing in the MTV era. Good to see 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:21.680 you here, Nancy. It's good to be here, Bob. I 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:24.560 really appreciate being here with you. Okay, So you grew 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:27.800 up in the state of Washington, right, So what does 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:30.880 your father do for a living. He was, Um, he 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:34.120 was a retired major from the Marine Corps. And we've 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:37.640 traveled around really a lot as kids, all over the place, 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:43.080 in Taiwan, different places in the States. Um, And so 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:46.880 you know, I think that's it was earlier in my life. 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:50.959 I was already on on a tour per se. Well, 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:53.680 it's funny that so many rockers are like that. It's like, uh, 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:56.480 you know, the guys from the police, their father was 0:00:56.520 --> 0:01:00.560 in the CIA, the people who traveled. So you were 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:02.240 living in the State of Watching. Your father was still 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:05.559 in the military. They had been stationed there at one point. 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:09.560 They went back to retire and live there afterwards. So 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:12.920 when you were growing up, was he still working? He was? 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:17.000 He was away a lot. Um in various actions that 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:20.720 he fought in Korea, you know, Guam and a lot 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:25.520 of the South Pacific stuff. So my mom was the 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:28.199 father and the mother, you know for the three girls 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:31.720 of us and um she she had a war face 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:35.560 when she needed to have been quite a woman. So 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:38.080 you're the youngest of three. I am the youngest of three, 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:41.399 and so how much older the other two? Um as 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:44.119 the middle she's four years older and Lynn is eight 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:46.679 years older. Now we don't get much focus on lynd 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:50.800 where's Lynn today? She's still in Seattle area, UM where 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:53.880 I used to live on a farm, a piece of 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:57.800 a farm that I used to have there, and you know, 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:03.440 gardening and and doing the actually archiving a lot of 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:06.640 heart stuff that was in storage there when I left. 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:11.200 And so she's got a big job because it's archeological 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:14.840 layers of decades of stuff. Well did you save stuff? 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:17.040 I saved a lot of stuff. You know. It's very 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:19.520 interesting because I'm a hoarder. You've always come and they 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:20.959 say you want to pry. It's like, well, you know, 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:24.919 i've ever become famous, this will be like, oh, I 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:29.440 have I hoard weird stuff though, like little like little 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:32.760 scraps of things. Like little name tags, you know, from 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:35.960 an event like at the Elton John oscar party or 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:39.840 something like the name tag, or you know um or 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:44.120 rose pedals from a wedding that was meaningful or things 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:48.079 like that too. Well, if you're obviously a legendary star, 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:50.880 do you still get a thrill when you meet your heroes? 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:54.480 I do? So who have you met, Let's say recently 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:57.840 we said you can't believe it. Well, being in the 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:01.720 same room with Paul McCartney a few times was extremely 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:05.200 massively huge for me. You know, I just I just 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:10.160 started gushing. YouTube. The guys in YouTube, there's such beasts. Okay, 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:14.760 so you're there. Do they immediately know who you are? Yeah? 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:18.040 Well usually we're in situations where they would know anyway, Okay, 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:21.720 you know shows any insecurity, it's like, well I know 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:23.600 who they are, they may not know who I am. 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:27.400 Tom Petty was one of those for me. Yeah, so 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:30.400 so sad to see that that. I still can't believe 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:32.160 he's dead. I mean I always saw him a couple 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.400 of nights before at the Hollywood. So anyway, you're in Washington, 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:38.880 are they playing music in the home? Oh? Yeah, we 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:42.160 um we always had music. There was always a good 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:46.160 stereo system, you know, one of those big boxes that 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:48.600 had we had the consoles and then we had the 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:50.960 kind of wall mounted and we had real to reel, 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:55.880 really real to real growing up, yeah, growing up a stereo, 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:59.640 real to real two track, and we would make you know, 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:03.280 calm any music and do like half speed and along 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:05.720 with do you know what the inspiration for the purchase 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:09.760 of that was. My parents would buy record albums LPs, 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:13.560 long playing record albums at the time, and they would 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:18.120 tape them in their entirety to keep the quality, the 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:21.719 cund quality of the records intact, so that when the 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:26.159 record got scratched because there was dogs and kids, um, 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:30.240 they'd still have a really fine quality system and you know, 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:33.200 a way to listen to their favorite albums. So you 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:37.920 have one album on one side, which almost usually would 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:41.320 pan out time wise, in the right amount of time. 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:45.320 Sometimes not, it would just run off the reel um 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:47.840 and then the other side was another album. You turn 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:51.839 the tape over and do you remember what albums? So 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:54.240 what were they playing? What kind of music? They had 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:59.000 a lot of Broadway musicals, West Side stories, you know, 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:01.560 did you have that? I remember one Sunday, you know, 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:04.479 you're in Seattle was raining. I remember one Sunday I 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:07.440 made my mother play all of her Broadway records because 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:09.400 it was a song of my And it wasn't until 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:11.440 the very last record that we hit the song that 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:13.200 I wanted to hear, which was with a little bit 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:15.680 of Luck. Oh it was a little bit of luck 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:18.400 with a little bit Yeah, I know that one too. 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:22.040 And there was um, you know, really corny ones like 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:28.920 Oklahoma and uh really even cornier ones like South Pacific 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:37.800 when I went to all my iPod and that's really funny. 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:41.880 So they're playing those records, especially since you have older sisters. 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:45.520 Are they buying any children's or pop records? No, but 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:52.320 they bought Edgar versus Verres first electronique experimental music that 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:55.440 Frank Zappa was really into Edgar. Oh yeah, what was 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:59.200 the inspiration for that? They were just music students, you know. 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:03.960 They had um anything that Leonard Bernstein touched, they had 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:08.839 to have um we we watched the Leonard Bernstein's Music 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:17.320 show on it was just brilliant. Yeah. And they also 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:21.800 had um Ray Charles. They had to read Franklin, Peggy Lee. 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:27.080 So they were very well rounded musical influences on us, 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:31.279 and we all sang and ore we had ukuleles, and 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:35.800 my mom played piano. And so did you take piano lessons? Yeah, 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:39.400 a few years of piano lessons, which was you know, 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:43.240 like pulling teeth, never practice, but then you use it later, 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:45.720 which is a good thing to know, you know, just 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:47.960 to have the kind of the theory in your head, 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:53.039 um about intervals and harmonies and stuff. But so and 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:55.600 she taught us a lot of stuff on piano, and 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:59.840 our aunts and uncles would sing and harmonize play ukule 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:04.839 at least together. Um, we sang you know, offcolor, old 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:10.240 pub songs, old English and Irish puff songs like Lydia Pinkham, 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:12.200 you know that one. I don't know. They had the 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:14.720 Piper to the Sea and that kind of stuff. So, 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:20.480 and when do you start playing the guitar? When I 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:23.040 started playing guitar was when I saw the Beatles on 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:31.480 Ed Sullivan sixty three. Was it? Okay, that's right, of course, 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:35.440 you know exactly. I just remember because my parents used 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:38.200 to go out, you know at Friday night and Saturday night. 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:40.600 And my mother said, she's a real culture vulture. Oh, 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:42.920 you have to watch Jack Parr, who had hosted the 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:46.680 tonight show had a Friday night one hour show. You 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:49.240 have to watch this show, this new show. There's this 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:51.840 band from England. My mother was telling. My mother was 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:54.880 never a fan of My mother loved the Four Seasons. 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:58.120 She bought Big Girls, we had those, but she was 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:00.679 not normally a fan. And I remember this was November 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:04.400 sixty three. They had a video shot in the theater, 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:07.960 like from behind the bottom row of seats is usually 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:10.040 like a little wall, and it was the Beatles. We 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:12.520 didn't know because everyone was screaming. We thought the name 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:15.280 of the song was we Love Too Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:19.760 as opposed to she Loves You. And we laughed hysterically. Okay, 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:21.120 and then you know, two months later it was the 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:24.520 biggest thing going. Well I know, but we also it 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:28.560 was the folk boom before and we had those albums too, right. 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:32.360 We had better Fallen Mary of course blowing in the wind, 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:35.400 but Joan Bayazz a little bit of Joan Bayazz, but 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:38.679 not as much because if the vibrato issue with her 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:43.760 voice was a little you know, we were more into 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:47.920 Peter Palm Mary. They were a huge but we got 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:50.880 nylon string guitar which we started to play. But as 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.320 soon as the Beatles hit, we all went electric. So 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:55.400 you were not playing you were not playing guitar at 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:57.839 all until the Beatles run. Its all of them, right. 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:00.120 I was playing a lot of ukulele and p know 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:03.600 and you know. But then we had to have the guitars. 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:07.320 We just had to be the Beatles. Instead of trying 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:09.920 to marry them, we had to be them. And you 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:14.120 have a band, you consciously that instead of bearing the Beatles, 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:17.360 you'll be a Beatle. I'll be a Beatle. Yeah, I'll 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:21.080 develop a fake English accent in order to feel like 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:25.040 I'm a Beatle. Like it was that intense. Yeah, And 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:30.320 it was this a solo thing where you in on it. No, Um, she's, 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:33.360 you know, my older sister. So we had to do 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:37.400 it together, and we got guitars and we learned how 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:41.920 to play Beatle songs, and we got the mail Bay 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:46.200 Chord book of course, of course, and we learned all 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:50.120 those cores and we got so you're totally self taught, 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:53.320 as um. I never took guitar lessons per se. I 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:57.000 took a couple of classical guitar lessons once, but I 0:09:57.000 --> 0:10:00.439 didn't have time because I was already touring a point 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:03.559 at that point. So, I mean it was nineteen really 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:06.040 when I joined Hart basically, but let's go before that. 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:10.080 It's you pick up the guitar. Yeah, and you start 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:12.079 to play with your sisters, the whole history of singing 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:14.079 in the house. Do you then say we're going to 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:16.800 form a band and we're gonna play. That's exactly what 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:19.280 we we did. It was like we have to form 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:23.360 a band. Um, it was kind of a folk It 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:28.800 was a protest song kind of folk ed folk tinged 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:34.280 protest band where we did like Gates of Eden, you know, 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:38.880 Bob Dylan's stuff, um, you know, blowing in the wind, 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:44.240 and but then we also did stuff like you know, uh, 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:49.120 stuff like Cherish what was on the radio at the time, Association, 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.960 and so we were kind of pop folk, you know, 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:59.280 rock ish acoustics type, all girl foursome. Okay, who are 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:01.400 the other two girls? There were girls were sort of 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:04.240 enlisted out of school that didn't really know how to 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:08.640 play or sing, but we just forced them. But because 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:11.200 they were our friends, so we just wanted to have 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:15.320 a band with friends in it. And um, we learned 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:19.319 how to play harmony, sing harmony, play pop music off 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:23.400 the radio and beatles songs. Okay, so you're obviously literally 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:26.560 famous now, but growing up in school at the public school, 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:30.440 were you one of the leaders, were you in the background. 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:32.559 Did you have a lot of friends prior to the 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:37.880 music thing. Um always was kind of the ugly, shy, 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:42.000 sort of fat girl really with a secret sort of life, 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:45.360 you know, at home with music, and uh yeah, it 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:48.559 was never like a I always kind of wished i'd 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:51.520 been like a cheerleader or could be like those people, 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.760 the popular people, right, that was the word. You want 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:58.480 to be popular, praying that you would be popular, and 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:01.680 hoping you could like have different body parts like the 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.880 other people that you didn't have that they had, you know, 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:09.000 just be somebody else, you know, besides me. Now you 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:12.320 form the band, how long is it until you actually 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:17.280 start to play outside the house? Um, we formed it 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:22.959 pretty quickly. We learned stuff fast. We developed a set, 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:28.800 a set list, and then we got a gig um 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:33.560 at a like folk festival someplace, and we actually we're 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:38.800 granny dresses and stood on a stage. There was big microphones, 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:42.319 like big microphones in front of our faces and an audience. 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:45.480 Then we started playing wherever we could play. We played 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:49.679 a lot of living rooms. Um. We even played at 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:52.760 a drive in theater one time in between the movies 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:58.439 before the movie started, and we're getting paid for these jobs. No, yeah, 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:00.319 so we were all It was ame as it was 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:02.600 a mania. That's what people talk about music today. They 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.000 have no idea what it was like. And the radio 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:08.520 was the tribal drum. But did you see this as 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:13.440 a career or a lark? I totally thought it was 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:18.199 the rest of my life to do. This is my job, 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:23.320 my vision, my quest, um, my purpose. And we just 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:27.600 aimed ourselves like pistols at that thing and we managed 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:32.760 to somehow achieve it. So like this all starts you're 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:36.679 like in fourth fifth grade, Okay, so and then your 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:40.480 sister Anne is four years older. What plays out while 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:45.240 you're in high school? Well she, um, she met guys 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:50.160 with electrical guitars and amps and drums and equipment with 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:53.600 a van. So so she was off, you know, on 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.439 her own trajectory at that point. And I was still 0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:59.959 doing sort of acoustic performances on my own and little 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:04.960 coffee shops. And when I was under age with my boyfriend, 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:07.800 my first sort of real boyfriend, who I had a 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:13.000 duet acoustic duet with called Jeff and Nancy. We were 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:17.400 we got a job in Um up in the mountains, 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:20.880 in a real redneck town up there where they used 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:25.920 to shoot twin peaks um and we were just saying 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:29.120 a bunch of country music for the beer swilling guys 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:33.640 up there. And you know, there we got a manager 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:38.000 and he gave me an Ovation guitar and plugged it in, 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.360 you know, so it was all that was the big thing. 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:43.480 With a round fiber glass back you could plug it in. 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:47.160 That was a huge thing in like yeah, and you know, 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:49.360 I was like a poster girl for Ovation there for 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:53.360 a little while. So you were playing with Jeff and 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:56.160 your sister's got her own bands, doing her own thing. 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:59.080 She was, Yeah, she was kind of in a more 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:03.640 psychedelic band at the time. Staying at my sister Lynd's 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:07.720 commune a lot rehearsing that your sister lived at a commune. 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:11.240 They had a commune, Yeah, like a hippie commune. What 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:12.920 did your parents Your father was in the military. What 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:15.040 do you say about his daughter being in a commune. Well, 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:18.000 they took a bit of a dim view of the commune. 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:21.720 They called themselves the Hoopers, look like a takeoff on 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:25.720 the hippies, and there were some definitely of mind expansion 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:29.640 type days going on over there, and we'd skip out 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:33.080 school and we'd go play music over there and getting 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:38.000 we've gotten some trouble because Lynn's husband was a photographer 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:42.560 and there was some nude photography involved, so which was radical, 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.200 so radical, you know at that point. Now it's like 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:50.840 every every news stand cover, every the internet, it's everywhere. 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:54.200 So your sister is playing in bands, but also living 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:57.840 in Seattle, you have your duo with Jeff. Is your 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:00.360 sister having any success with her? It's like about work 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:04.920 influence bands. They were um, they were playing um at 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:08.480 some officers clubs, you know, so they were getting work, 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:12.960 they were getting paid and uh, you know, I was 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:17.240 getting paid a little up at in the North Bend 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:22.880 at the KEG and Q tavern, but um. But yeah. 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:24.840 She was starting to make a kind of a name 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:29.760 round town for herself because she was such a great singer, 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:32.960 and she was just one of the singers in the band. 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:35.240 There were guy singers in the band that would do 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:37.400 all the rock songs that she would just do the ballads. 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:42.040 When she started doing Zeppelin covers, it was a whole 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:45.720 different bollo Ax and so she started to be known 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:50.640 as a kind of a premier local singer and she's 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:53.080 got that gift. Okay, were you both because you know 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:57.040 there's history with love Bongers, etcetera. Were you that big 0:16:57.040 --> 0:17:00.320 at Zeppelin fan? We were, Um, we saw st up 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:03.920 And play at the Green Lake Aqua Theater in Seattle, 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:10.439 opening for the Fifth Dimensions. Yeah, they were just they 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:14.720 were yeah right, they were just an opening act and 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:19.000 we were so we were scandalized by their sexuality because 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:22.840 we were pretty young and we just thought they were 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:27.040 just they were like showing their bare chested and you know, 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:31.840 really suggestive, and you know, Robert Plant was kind of 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:35.440 like it looks sort of like a man man and 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:38.000 a woman at the same time, and it was, you know, 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:41.520 really like it seemed like black magic. You know. So 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:46.840 we were scandalized and then we were hooked. And then 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:49.119 we had to learn their songs and we still have 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:53.760 done a lot of their stuff. Right, favorite, if there's 0:17:53.800 --> 0:18:00.840 only one, I think the Rain Song because it incorporates 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:06.520 all of the melodic almost classical structure um and then 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:12.640 dissonance and the power and the delicacy that they very 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:17.160 well articulate. Possess all of those things, and that one 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:20.760 song has all of those elements. Okay, so now you're 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:23.919 in high school, when do you start playing with the 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:29.320 bands with your sister? UM? I had been kind of 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:34.520 a shadow and ants presence for being younger and stuff 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:37.200 for so long in my life that I decided I 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:41.600 would put off joining her band and go to college first. 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:43.959 So I went to a year and a half of 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:50.159 university in Oregon where UM Portland's state was the second 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:55.959 one and UM Pacific University was the first year. Really beautiful, old, 0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:59.960 out in nature kind of campuses, nothing much to do 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:03.919 except study, and I studied, you know, creative writing and 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:06.919 music theory and stuff I figured I could use to 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:11.159 bring along to the table as a musician and a writer. 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:15.280 And it was a really good idea. But like between 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:18.600 the school years, I'd sit in with Ann's band that 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:23.320 was called Heart by then. UM and uh, you know 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:30.640 do like really complicated acoustic introductions to things and yes, 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:33.640 songs and and you learn all that stuff in college, 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:37.120 and that helped. I knew all that stuff really early on. UM. 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:40.359 I never really studied guitar, but I I worked at 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:45.680 it really hard, play well. I learned it like on 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:48.280 a on an LP, you could you could switch the 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:52.160 speed down to have you can get machines that help 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:57.960 you do that now, but you can little vial, Yeah, 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:00.919 just a little button you could fush over to the 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:03.840 half speed and it's the same key because it's an 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:07.240 octave lower and it's half as fast, and you could 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:12.080 play everything at learning speed until you could do it again. 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:16.560 We're playing with Anne in between the two years of college, 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:19.200 and then how did you ultimately decide to drop out 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:23.359 and play with her? Well, um, well, my parents ran 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:27.160 out of money for one thing. Literally, it's the opposite. 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:29.120 Usually the parents are pissed at the kid drops out 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:32.280 of college. No, I think they were pretty strapped, and 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:36.560 you know, they had indulged me in the kind of 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:39.439 the educational thing that I wanted to get a taste of, 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:43.600 and I felt like i'd kind of gotten enough of 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:47.800 the of a something to take along from it with 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:50.520 me that I would just be able to, you know, 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:53.680 not finish that second year and go join the army 0:20:53.680 --> 0:20:57.440 and see the world and regrets whatsoever about dropping on 0:20:57.520 --> 0:21:01.639 a school m hm, No, we know you have to 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:06.040 twin boys. Are they planning to go to college. They 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:09.960 are there, one of them is already accepted to l 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:15.520 m U Animation and he's a really good animator already. 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:19.919 And the other guy is probably cal Arts or maybe 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:24.159 UM Concordia in Montreal. And how would you feel if 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:29.440 they dropped out? UM? I would give them the same 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:35.760 advice that my mom and dad gave me joining the band, 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:41.040 when they said, you know, follow your bliss, do what 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:43.720 it is you know you're going to be passionate about, 0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:49.720 and but don't change who you are, Like if you 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:54.200 go to Tinseltown, stay who you are. So of course 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:57.959 we all went to Tinseltown and we've changed, okay, so 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:00.520 you kind of had to figure out of and later 0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:03.960 who we were, you know, to start out with like 0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:09.280 a Joe Wall song. So the so you drop out 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:12.440 because your parents ran out of money, and you immediately 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:15.760 join your sister's band. And to what degree is that 0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:20.960 the band that ultimately makes the first record? UM that 0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:25.240 is pretty much almost the same band minus a couple 0:22:25.280 --> 0:22:31.119 of players. We switched up with a rhythm section basically 0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:33.640 and made the first subum that way. Well, but before 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:35.320 we get to the first album, you go to join 0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:38.560 your sister's band. She immediately opened. She there's no issue 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:41.720 if you joining. She wants you know, there was a 0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:46.720 standing open invitation forever to join that band, So I 0:22:46.760 --> 0:22:49.200 knew I would join it. And we had so much 0:22:50.200 --> 0:22:53.520 comfort zone with each other as musicians and singers and 0:22:53.600 --> 0:22:57.679 players and writers already at that point that it was 0:22:57.760 --> 0:23:01.120 just a natural, you know, evolution in Okay, So when 0:23:01.119 --> 0:23:03.159 you joined the band, what's the status of the band 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:06.040 in terms of career arc But at that point they 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:09.880 were the biggest cabaret band in Vancouver, b C. They were. 0:23:09.920 --> 0:23:13.200 They were a house band at the Zodiac Room at 0:23:13.200 --> 0:23:18.520 this hotel in town, and they were touring around in 0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:24.280 Canada in in one van in winter and when you know, 0:23:24.280 --> 0:23:27.840 two lane highways. So I joined the band at that 0:23:27.920 --> 0:23:33.400 point and started playing clubs cabarets immediately with them, and 0:23:33.840 --> 0:23:36.720 you know, learning how to play pool and you know, 0:23:36.720 --> 0:23:40.280 how to have cocktails and stuff like. You grew up 0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:44.040 very quickly. I was pretty young for well, the drinking 0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:50.919 age was younger in Vancouver. It's nineteen instead, so I 0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:54.159 was of age at that point and the band was 0:23:54.200 --> 0:23:57.879 making enough money to support you. Well, I was living 0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:04.879 on a on a water bed bag without a frame 0:24:06.080 --> 0:24:10.119 in a basement on a car very cold floor, was 0:24:10.400 --> 0:24:15.119 a bag of water in a basement. So I was 0:24:15.200 --> 0:24:18.040 in the spare kind of basement room down there, freezing 0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:22.800 my ass. Huh. But um there was there was money 0:24:22.920 --> 0:24:26.880 enough for the band house to buy like a fifty 0:24:26.920 --> 0:24:31.720 pound sack of brown rice and vegetables, you know, so 0:24:31.760 --> 0:24:36.280 we all were on a really healthy diet. Now I 0:24:37.000 --> 0:24:38.879 was involved in a relationship with the guy who ended 0:24:38.920 --> 0:24:41.920 up being the manager of the band, Yeah, the Swengali, 0:24:42.520 --> 0:24:45.639 the magic Man, the magic Man, and his name was 0:24:46.000 --> 0:24:49.280 Michael Fisher, and he was the brother of the guitar 0:24:49.359 --> 0:24:51.640 player who kind of I kind of ended up with 0:24:52.080 --> 0:24:54.399 Roger Fish. I was going to get get there you 0:24:54.520 --> 0:24:58.200 when I had when you moved to Canada. Was Michael 0:24:58.240 --> 0:25:03.880 Fisher already involved? Yes, he he was. Well. He had 0:25:03.920 --> 0:25:09.159 come down illegally across the border to visit Roger and 0:25:09.280 --> 0:25:12.719 his family, who Ants had in her band already, So 0:25:12.840 --> 0:25:16.760 Roger was in um Ant's band. Michael came to visit 0:25:17.040 --> 0:25:20.600 his family. He was a draft evader, so he had 0:25:20.640 --> 0:25:24.920 to come illegally across the border, and she met Mike 0:25:25.240 --> 0:25:28.400 and fell in love with Mike, like hugely in love 0:25:28.480 --> 0:25:32.680 with Mike and followed him back across the border, walking 0:25:33.640 --> 0:25:39.280 hitchhiking with a backpack and a guitar, and the rest 0:25:39.280 --> 0:25:43.040 of the band moved to Vancouver to make the band 0:25:43.080 --> 0:25:46.679 happen there so that Ann and Mike would be together. 0:25:47.280 --> 0:25:50.880 And was Mike immediately the manager? Yeah, he he had 0:25:50.920 --> 0:25:55.919 that kind of um organized energy and he was getting 0:25:55.960 --> 0:25:59.680 the gigs and he was um organizing the household and 0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:03.199 keeping the books and you know, so how do you 0:26:03.240 --> 0:26:07.840 get involved with Roger Um? I kind of had to 0:26:07.880 --> 0:26:11.760 be persuaded into that situation. It was. It was it 0:26:11.880 --> 0:26:16.399 was very convenient because we were traveling and an extra 0:26:16.480 --> 0:26:21.800 hotel room was not well, I didn't realize, you know, 0:26:23.720 --> 0:26:27.520 what I was doing at that age either, So it 0:26:27.560 --> 0:26:30.879 was it was a convenient relationship to have for the 0:26:31.000 --> 0:26:37.160 purposes of UM getting the band further along, But personally 0:26:37.240 --> 0:26:40.879 it just wasn't going to work for me. And in 0:26:40.920 --> 0:26:44.120 his case it was the opposite. He was he really 0:26:44.240 --> 0:26:46.399 you had a thing for me, and I was just 0:26:46.480 --> 0:26:49.000 kind of going along with something just to try to 0:26:49.040 --> 0:26:52.199 get ahead. So I was in that way, I was 0:26:52.280 --> 0:26:55.400 being like the dude in relationship. And how long did 0:26:55.400 --> 0:26:58.400 that go on? A couple of years Okay, So how 0:26:58.440 --> 0:27:01.640 do you end up getting the deal Mushroom Records? Well, 0:27:01.680 --> 0:27:05.399 we were first turned down by every major label who 0:27:05.480 --> 0:27:08.280 was pitching. Yeah. We we got our tapes together. We've 0:27:08.320 --> 0:27:12.520 taped live performances real to real, and we made demos 0:27:12.560 --> 0:27:16.840 and we wrote songs and mailed them to record companies 0:27:16.920 --> 0:27:21.000 in the mail and got turned down about four times each. 0:27:21.160 --> 0:27:25.240 And then there was a local, small um record company 0:27:25.280 --> 0:27:30.840 called Mushroom Records, owned by a paint mogul guy in 0:27:31.000 --> 0:27:34.399 Vancouver who they had a little studio and they wanted 0:27:34.440 --> 0:27:38.439 to try to develop us, and they got their local 0:27:39.320 --> 0:27:42.800 um Mike Flicker, the local sort of producer eye there, 0:27:42.920 --> 0:27:46.679 and we got it together and we made the album. Okay, 0:27:46.720 --> 0:27:49.119 but you were a student of the game and at 0:27:49.160 --> 0:27:52.480 that time really was just majors. There weren't independence of 0:27:52.520 --> 0:27:55.080 that level. How did you feel about making a deal 0:27:55.119 --> 0:27:59.800 with Mushroom Records? It felt lucky, like somebody's gonna want 0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:03.679 something from us, you know. Um, it felt like it 0:28:03.960 --> 0:28:06.880 could there could be a chance a snowball dancing hell 0:28:07.560 --> 0:28:12.000 because it was a smaller town, a smaller group of cool, 0:28:12.119 --> 0:28:15.240 passionate people that we could put a face too instead 0:28:15.280 --> 0:28:18.560 of just a big corporate brick wall, you know, and 0:28:18.680 --> 0:28:23.120 it felt more personal and it was a better deal 0:28:23.200 --> 0:28:26.360 for us, even though you know, at first they only 0:28:26.400 --> 0:28:31.439 wanted to sign Anne only, and I got it. I 0:28:31.480 --> 0:28:35.960 don't know how to quite how to responds. It was 0:28:35.960 --> 0:28:38.480 a little bit. Yeah, that was a little hard, you know, 0:28:38.520 --> 0:28:41.040 because she and she was cool enough to say, no, 0:28:41.160 --> 0:28:44.960 I'm I won't do this without these key people and 0:28:45.640 --> 0:28:47.480 me being one of them, and a couple of the 0:28:47.520 --> 0:28:51.360 other players. So you have to sign all of these 0:28:51.400 --> 0:28:55.479 people or I don't sign anything, which was to her 0:28:55.520 --> 0:29:02.440 credit and she never regretted that ever. But the interesting 0:29:02.520 --> 0:29:05.720 thing is, Mike Flicker made that record that is one 0:29:05.720 --> 0:29:09.160 of the best sounding records of all time. People may 0:29:09.240 --> 0:29:11.480 or may not remember. God thirty five years the big 0:29:11.520 --> 0:29:14.800 thing was half Speed Mastered records, and there was a 0:29:14.840 --> 0:29:18.280 half Speed rest Dreamboat. Any you can put that on, 0:29:18.760 --> 0:29:20.440 It would just wake up the whole room. They couldn't 0:29:20.440 --> 0:29:22.720 believe the sound of the record cut by this nobody 0:29:22.760 --> 0:29:26.960 nowhere right. Well, they had one of those incredibly beautiful 0:29:27.760 --> 0:29:30.880 um rooms that you like a muscle shoals kind of 0:29:30.880 --> 0:29:33.240 a room with that type of a board and all 0:29:33.280 --> 0:29:37.600 the tube gear and all the beautiful analog outboard gear 0:29:37.760 --> 0:29:41.720 and um, it was just and he just had a 0:29:41.760 --> 0:29:48.840 really good way of recording things, um up close, so 0:29:48.880 --> 0:29:50.840 you hear the wood in the guitar, and you hear 0:29:50.880 --> 0:29:54.040 the wood in the room, and just really had you know, 0:29:54.120 --> 0:29:57.320 actually ends making an album right now with Mike Flicker 0:29:57.800 --> 0:30:00.520 on her own. Yeah, which is very cool. Right, So 0:30:00.960 --> 0:30:04.360 you're making that record, you're wet behind the years. To 0:30:04.480 --> 0:30:07.360 what degree is that a forgetting the album that resulted? 0:30:07.800 --> 0:30:11.080 To what degree was at a rewarding or frustrating experience 0:30:11.160 --> 0:30:13.600 because usually people always say, oh, my first record, they 0:30:13.640 --> 0:30:15.240 told me what to do, it was what I wanted 0:30:15.280 --> 0:30:18.280 to do, etcetera. Yeah, Well, we were just hell bent, 0:30:18.440 --> 0:30:23.240 you know. We were just um dogged about what we 0:30:23.720 --> 0:30:25.959 what we were going to get out of making this record. 0:30:26.320 --> 0:30:30.520 We worked really hard. We were we were recording and 0:30:30.520 --> 0:30:35.000 then doing shows at night, recording by day doing. Yeah, 0:30:35.040 --> 0:30:38.120 we were just putting every single stitch of us into it. 0:30:38.720 --> 0:30:42.440 And um, and it was a big learning curve because 0:30:43.160 --> 0:30:46.760 playing in a band, I had hardly played in that 0:30:46.800 --> 0:30:49.200 band for very long yet I was a sort of 0:30:49.240 --> 0:30:53.479 more of a solo player and singer, and so getting 0:30:53.760 --> 0:30:56.720 the groove right with a band of players is a 0:30:56.800 --> 0:31:00.200 really big lesson. It's a big learning curve to not 0:31:00.320 --> 0:31:04.080 be ahead of that pushing ahead, you know, or two 0:31:04.320 --> 0:31:08.080 lagging too far behind. And the take that has the 0:31:08.120 --> 0:31:12.440 magic in it. You know, you do full takes every 0:31:12.480 --> 0:31:16.320 time of the song, all the way through time and 0:31:16.320 --> 0:31:19.200 time and time and time and time again, until one 0:31:19.280 --> 0:31:22.920 of them felt like there was the magic, or like 0:31:23.040 --> 0:31:24.800 the first half of this one and the second half 0:31:24.800 --> 0:31:28.480 of that one where they take the actual physical tape out, 0:31:29.200 --> 0:31:33.160 cut it with a razor blade and you know, splice 0:31:33.160 --> 0:31:35.960 it together and then see if it worked with no 0:31:36.120 --> 0:31:39.920 safety so it's like whoa. Those were very you know, 0:31:40.160 --> 0:31:44.920 brave times in the recording studio, great times. Very How 0:31:44.920 --> 0:31:48.680 long did it take you to make the first record? Um, 0:31:48.800 --> 0:31:51.600 we didn't have a long time to do it. I 0:31:51.640 --> 0:31:54.440 think it was maybe a couple of months. So the 0:31:54.480 --> 0:31:58.400 record is now done. Are you happy with the record? Very? 0:31:58.400 --> 0:32:01.560 Happy with the record? Okay, happy with the package, happy 0:32:01.600 --> 0:32:06.280 with everything. I hated the package. The picture, you know, 0:32:06.960 --> 0:32:08.560 it was like one of the first times I really 0:32:08.600 --> 0:32:12.000 were makeup and a photo shoot and I thought it 0:32:12.440 --> 0:32:14.560 looked like I had dirt on my face or something. 0:32:14.600 --> 0:32:17.440 So I rubbed it all off, you know, before the 0:32:18.000 --> 0:32:21.520 photographer came in and I don't know, you could just 0:32:21.560 --> 0:32:25.880 see all the pimples everything. You know, it's never liked it, 0:32:26.560 --> 0:32:31.520 but everybody liked it. And it was controversial cover because 0:32:31.560 --> 0:32:35.280 we had bare shoulders that were touching, and so, you know, 0:32:35.360 --> 0:32:37.360 I always heard, you know, there was the classic thing, 0:32:37.400 --> 0:32:39.800 well are they sisters? Said the lovers? I never thought 0:32:39.880 --> 0:32:45.560 that like it? What's you know why I go there 0:32:46.000 --> 0:32:48.880 just to make it a little more scimilating or whatever. 0:32:49.160 --> 0:32:52.160 But that's what it was about. The record is done. 0:32:52.160 --> 0:32:54.600 At that time, I was living in Utah living. I 0:32:54.680 --> 0:32:57.760 remember hearing the songs on the radio, but being in 0:32:57.800 --> 0:33:00.720 the band. What was the first step in the road 0:33:00.760 --> 0:33:04.600 to success of that record, Well, in the book it's 0:33:04.640 --> 0:33:08.920 pretty well described the book Kicking and Dreaming. We were 0:33:08.960 --> 0:33:12.640 still in a club phase when the album started to 0:33:12.760 --> 0:33:17.440 gain momentum, and suddenly we were playing this really god 0:33:17.480 --> 0:33:22.760 awful dinner club, you know, in White Rock or someplace, 0:33:23.400 --> 0:33:28.320 and we got fired for for criticizing the food at 0:33:28.320 --> 0:33:32.280 the place on stage. And then the same night we 0:33:32.320 --> 0:33:34.960 got a call from Rod Stewart's people said come open 0:33:35.120 --> 0:33:38.760 for Rod Stewart in Montreal. So we got on a train, 0:33:38.800 --> 0:33:43.280 went across Canada and opened for Rod Stewart. But a 0:33:43.280 --> 0:33:47.600 little before that had the label gotten songs on the radio. 0:33:49.840 --> 0:33:52.880 On the radio. We we got in a rent a 0:33:52.880 --> 0:33:56.880 car with this guy named Shelley's Eagle and went to 0:33:57.040 --> 0:34:00.640 every is no longer with us, right, No, he's he 0:34:00.680 --> 0:34:04.400 didn't last very long after that, but um, he but 0:34:04.520 --> 0:34:09.160 he was, you know, a little wiry rat of a dude, 0:34:09.280 --> 0:34:12.279 and took us to each and every radio station in 0:34:12.320 --> 0:34:18.920 America basically, Um and I met met the DJs programmers, 0:34:19.000 --> 0:34:21.480 and so go away in the car, you know, did 0:34:21.520 --> 0:34:24.680 the payola thing, gave him whatever kind of drugs or 0:34:24.680 --> 0:34:28.320 whatever else he was doing, and we were just innocent 0:34:28.480 --> 0:34:31.000 enough to not really get it, you know. But we 0:34:31.120 --> 0:34:36.320 broke pretty well region by region according to the regions 0:34:36.400 --> 0:34:41.680 we had actually physically gone and worked station. It seemed 0:34:41.719 --> 0:34:44.360 from the outside it was very quick, it did seem 0:34:44.400 --> 0:34:47.440 from the outside, but it was a long Um. It 0:34:47.560 --> 0:34:50.800 was a region by regions, sort of a growth. We 0:34:50.920 --> 0:34:54.960 just kind of spread out like like a bad growth. No, 0:34:55.239 --> 0:34:57.759 we just uh, we kind of started. It was in 0:34:57.800 --> 0:35:00.879 the Midwest where they liked us first, and we kind 0:35:00.880 --> 0:35:05.040 of spread west after that and Finally, last but not least, 0:35:05.080 --> 0:35:07.680 the East Coast came on board. Okay, were there any 0:35:07.760 --> 0:35:09.960 moments of doubt or once you started making the record 0:35:10.000 --> 0:35:12.400 everything you just up, up, up. It was going fast 0:35:12.680 --> 0:35:16.520 and it was. It was really exciting and like opening 0:35:16.520 --> 0:35:20.600 for Rod Stewart at this big arena where people had 0:35:20.640 --> 0:35:23.640 heard our music and liked it already. We didn't know 0:35:23.719 --> 0:35:28.360 they'd already knew our music and we started playing probably 0:35:28.440 --> 0:35:32.080 magic Man, and they all lit there. Um. Then it 0:35:32.160 --> 0:35:39.120 was it was before matches. That's really dating myself, but 0:35:39.400 --> 0:35:41.759 I don't think the latters were a thing yet. They 0:35:41.760 --> 0:35:45.520 had zippos probably, and it looked like a sea of stars. 0:35:45.600 --> 0:35:50.239 It was just like magical. It was like unforgettably amazing 0:35:50.520 --> 0:35:54.839 and cool and big and um unfathomed, and the rock 0:35:54.880 --> 0:35:57.640 of it was like, this is rock. This is what 0:35:57.760 --> 0:36:00.640 I want rock and roll to be right here, right now. 0:36:01.680 --> 0:36:04.880 Let's see of stars. You know, God, you know it 0:36:04.960 --> 0:36:07.359 makes me takenal just hear about it all these years later. 0:36:07.920 --> 0:36:11.279 So then that's a one off with Rod Stewart. Um. 0:36:11.280 --> 0:36:16.280 We opened for Rod Um a few shows, I believe, 0:36:16.320 --> 0:36:19.480 and then we got more offers from like zz top 0:36:19.960 --> 0:36:23.120 z Z top we opened for ZZ and we opened 0:36:23.160 --> 0:36:27.200 for April Wine, big Canadian vans, so we did a 0:36:27.200 --> 0:36:32.759 lot of Canadian shows and bigger places, and um, you know, 0:36:32.840 --> 0:36:35.920 Billy Gibbons said, Hey, you're pretty good for a girl. 0:36:38.840 --> 0:36:41.120 Hold that thought. We'll take a quick break and get 0:36:41.200 --> 0:36:43.719 right back to this conversation with Nancy Wilson at the 0:36:43.760 --> 0:36:48.120 band part. Thanks for listening to this week's edition of 0:36:48.160 --> 0:36:50.480 the Bob Left Sets podcast. If you want to see 0:36:50.480 --> 0:36:52.600 photos and videos of my guests and the tune in 0:36:52.680 --> 0:36:56.080 studios here in Venice, California, check out at tune In 0:36:56.239 --> 0:37:02.440 on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. And now more with Nancy Wilson. 0:37:04.320 --> 0:37:06.640 Now you're on the road. We're in the height of 0:37:07.120 --> 0:37:11.440 the me too movement and you're one of the few people, 0:37:12.000 --> 0:37:15.440 one of the few women playing music is famous. But 0:37:15.480 --> 0:37:18.600 if you start narrowing it down to being a guitarist 0:37:18.640 --> 0:37:21.680 and playing rock, there aren't that many people. Yeah, it's 0:37:21.680 --> 0:37:24.879 a small group of us. So what was it like 0:37:25.200 --> 0:37:28.759 being a woman in that world? Well, it was interesting. 0:37:29.000 --> 0:37:33.680 I'll go back to the fact that we were military rats, um, 0:37:33.719 --> 0:37:37.480 having that dogged sort of ideology just to get it, 0:37:37.760 --> 0:37:40.920 get there and do what it is. That was our 0:37:40.960 --> 0:37:44.759 bliss to get our bliss, you know, to wrangle the 0:37:44.760 --> 0:37:50.720 bliss our bliss to the ground. And um that because 0:37:50.719 --> 0:37:53.959 our mom was so strong I guess too, and had 0:37:54.080 --> 0:37:57.440 been the father and a mother mainly for us, that 0:37:57.600 --> 0:38:00.560 we saw the strength and we took her strength with 0:38:00.640 --> 0:38:03.680 us and we just didn't really take no. I mean 0:38:04.040 --> 0:38:08.080 when somebody tried to insinuate that we were sister lovers, 0:38:08.160 --> 0:38:11.520 you know, that's why we wrote Barracuda. Um, we just 0:38:11.560 --> 0:38:14.759 weren't going to have it that way. And we knew 0:38:14.760 --> 0:38:18.080 we were strong enough to especially with each other there 0:38:18.160 --> 0:38:22.080 to lean on as women. We weren't kind of singled out, 0:38:22.960 --> 0:38:25.080 you know, we had our own wagons in a circle. 0:38:25.800 --> 0:38:32.160 So um. And you know, when you play guitar and 0:38:32.239 --> 0:38:37.520 it's you can turn it up to ten or eleven. Um, 0:38:37.560 --> 0:38:40.440 it's a lethal weapon. I mean, it's it's a it's 0:38:40.480 --> 0:38:44.600 a force, and it's it's a weapon too. It's a 0:38:44.640 --> 0:38:48.000 weapon for good, which music is, you know, which is 0:38:48.040 --> 0:38:51.920 what you want to protect, is the you know, the 0:38:51.960 --> 0:38:56.480 beautiful um kernel of what makes music so great and 0:38:56.520 --> 0:39:00.279 what inspires people and heals people about music. But if 0:39:00.280 --> 0:39:03.600 anybody comes up with pin wheels for eyes running at 0:39:03.640 --> 0:39:05.839 you on a rock stage, you have a weapon in 0:39:05.840 --> 0:39:09.400 your hand, you know. I once went the first Elvis 0:39:09.440 --> 0:39:14.120 Costello tour, played the whiskey and some guy uh started 0:39:14.120 --> 0:39:16.720 acting out on stage and he literally put his strato 0:39:16.719 --> 0:39:21.799 caster uh. When the strato caster was a well, it's 0:39:21.840 --> 0:39:25.840 the other one with only two uh um, two big 0:39:25.880 --> 0:39:30.120 broad uh, the one that was most expensive, and it 0:39:30.239 --> 0:39:33.080 was also played by the by the Beach Boys. Suddenly 0:39:33.120 --> 0:39:34.640 I forget, but I used to know. All these guitar 0:39:34.719 --> 0:39:37.520 things was fascinating. But he put it over his folder 0:39:38.000 --> 0:39:40.120 and the other guys that are being broke glasses and 0:39:40.160 --> 0:39:41.719 they were right there to fight the guy. And I 0:39:41.719 --> 0:39:45.360 remember being there. Even made Time magazine. But the perception 0:39:45.440 --> 0:39:48.719 on the outside would be that being a woman, when 0:39:48.719 --> 0:39:51.520 you weren't on stage, you had to fend off men 0:39:51.600 --> 0:39:54.680 to a certain degree. Was that true? Yes? I mean 0:39:54.920 --> 0:39:57.560 in a band, you've got your camaraderie and your circle 0:39:58.160 --> 0:40:01.080 of dudes that you kind of travel as pack, so 0:40:01.239 --> 0:40:04.520 you already kind of normally have that bit of a 0:40:04.560 --> 0:40:07.680 buffer zone just naturally with you. But I had a 0:40:07.680 --> 0:40:11.560 lot of run ins with just guys that are trying 0:40:11.640 --> 0:40:16.080 to come on to me, and I developed a system 0:40:16.120 --> 0:40:18.719 I guess of of just like if you're walking, you 0:40:18.800 --> 0:40:20.759 have to walk with purpose, you know, you have to 0:40:21.719 --> 0:40:25.520 um speak with purpose. You can't be wishy washy, and 0:40:25.560 --> 0:40:32.120 you have to really know how to insinuate your power 0:40:32.520 --> 0:40:36.000 on someone else with words or with with even just 0:40:36.080 --> 0:40:39.520 body language. So it's funny you mentioned that because I 0:40:39.560 --> 0:40:42.200 was married to someone who didn't understand all that it 0:40:42.239 --> 0:40:45.080 would end up in bad situations. You have to send 0:40:45.080 --> 0:40:50.040 a signal, right, It's it can be very um invisible, 0:40:50.560 --> 0:40:54.759 you know, to the but you're sending the singles. Yeah, 0:40:54.800 --> 0:40:59.040 it's like when you're walking down the hall and you're 0:40:59.040 --> 0:41:01.120 gonna go this way and somebody else is going to 0:41:01.200 --> 0:41:04.239 go that way. The body language is what you read 0:41:04.280 --> 0:41:07.560 off the other person. Now, just you know this is 0:41:07.719 --> 0:41:10.239 all this is dangerous territory. But if you talk to 0:41:10.320 --> 0:41:13.560 male musicians to a great degree, they all say, I 0:41:13.600 --> 0:41:17.360 really couldn't talk anybody. I spoke through my music. And 0:41:17.400 --> 0:41:21.520 I wanted to be famous for the sexual opportunities, for 0:41:21.600 --> 0:41:24.240 the guy, for the girls. That ever cost the mind 0:41:24.280 --> 0:41:26.680 of a woman. I'm on the road, there are all 0:41:26.719 --> 0:41:30.320 these men who are fixated on me. I think, yeah, 0:41:30.480 --> 0:41:33.640 I think a lot of women have have wanted to 0:41:33.760 --> 0:41:36.680 use men the way they've probably felt used by men 0:41:37.520 --> 0:41:41.200 with that kind of power that rock rock stage gives 0:41:41.239 --> 0:41:46.040 you or music music will give you. UM. Performance can 0:41:46.080 --> 0:41:51.720 give you that. UM. But I guess I never felt 0:41:51.760 --> 0:41:57.360 that way. I never felt like objectifying men as sexualizing 0:41:57.440 --> 0:42:02.960 men from that standpoint. Was always really sexual person and 0:42:03.160 --> 0:42:07.560 very interested in the sexuality of the music, what the 0:42:07.640 --> 0:42:12.920 music brings across, and how romantic it can also be, 0:42:13.680 --> 0:42:16.239 which is more sexy to me than just sexy just 0:42:16.400 --> 0:42:19.600 staying there the way you describe that. You know what 0:42:19.680 --> 0:42:23.680 people people at this era where stardom is so anointed 0:42:23.760 --> 0:42:27.400 and prevalent, people forget that underneath it, people are actually musicians. 0:42:28.200 --> 0:42:30.879 So I have to trust you. Since you've met, you've 0:42:30.960 --> 0:42:32.520 used a lot of terms and a lot of insight 0:42:32.560 --> 0:42:35.880 as being a musician. Do you find that you like 0:42:36.040 --> 0:42:39.279 that cocoon and it is somewhat difficult interacting with non 0:42:39.360 --> 0:42:45.759 musician people or that's really really interesting question. Um. There 0:42:45.920 --> 0:42:49.960 is a total language with musicians. If you're in different 0:42:50.360 --> 0:42:55.120 recording studios for different purposes and different projects with almost 0:42:55.160 --> 0:43:01.120 any other musicians, you already have the language. Everyone has 0:43:01.200 --> 0:43:06.879 the same jokes, the same There's just a total musician style, um, 0:43:06.920 --> 0:43:10.239 a lifestyle, and a lot of it comes from all 0:43:10.239 --> 0:43:14.120 the hours of trying and failing and trying and failing 0:43:14.680 --> 0:43:18.160 and learning your craft and being getting good at it 0:43:18.239 --> 0:43:21.080 and knowing when to shut up and when to give 0:43:21.960 --> 0:43:25.640 you know, over too not to cover up too much space, 0:43:25.680 --> 0:43:28.399 but when to when to shine, you know, all those 0:43:28.520 --> 0:43:33.319 various lessons that musicians have take with them, and that 0:43:33.400 --> 0:43:39.080 makes a personality type. Um. So I've never felt as 0:43:39.400 --> 0:43:43.280 at home with a lot of regular folks in life, 0:43:43.360 --> 0:43:45.760 you know, Like, I mean, I like people, and I'm 0:43:45.840 --> 0:43:49.600 good with people, and I believe people are good, you know, 0:43:49.880 --> 0:43:54.439 despite a lot of the evidence. But um yeah, I'm 0:43:54.520 --> 0:43:57.640 just kind of a I'm kind of clumsy in social 0:43:57.640 --> 0:44:00.640 settings where it's like what will I say? Now? You know, 0:44:00.880 --> 0:44:04.280 how am I supposed to act? Right? Yeah, I certainly 0:44:04.320 --> 0:44:06.400 understand that. But let's go back to the band. So 0:44:06.440 --> 0:44:10.080 the Dreamboat any blows up, okay, and then the whole 0:44:10.120 --> 0:44:13.319 thing blows up. So you ultimately get in a war 0:44:13.400 --> 0:44:16.120 with a label. You switched to Epic. What's going on 0:44:16.600 --> 0:44:19.839 at that time? There was trouble with the second album. 0:44:19.880 --> 0:44:22.440 That's really kind of boring, you know, it's not interesting 0:44:22.480 --> 0:44:25.640 at all. But but you was you could have technically 0:44:25.760 --> 0:44:29.040 have been stopped from making it the rest of the album, 0:44:29.080 --> 0:44:31.160 recording the album, Okay, but just so I know, because 0:44:31.160 --> 0:44:33.319 you know, there's been a lot of stories whatever the 0:44:33.400 --> 0:44:37.839 second album you intended to make for Mushroom, Yeah, and 0:44:37.880 --> 0:44:40.640 then they found out you were negotiating with Epic. How 0:44:40.800 --> 0:44:44.840 that ultimately something in there got real fishy with between 0:44:45.160 --> 0:44:47.799 Mushroom and Epic and we needed to we had a 0:44:47.880 --> 0:44:50.960 key man clause to get us out of being forced 0:44:51.320 --> 0:44:58.640 to release a mush another Mushroom or Epic um released 0:44:58.680 --> 0:45:02.879 that they wanted to finish without our actual without our 0:45:02.960 --> 0:45:06.960 actual input. So there was it was a it was 0:45:07.000 --> 0:45:11.319 a litigious time, Bob. Their number of bands been through 0:45:11.320 --> 0:45:16.440 this and it almost you know, destroyed Springstein and Petty. 0:45:17.960 --> 0:45:19.920 So being in the middle of that, Maelstrom, what was 0:45:19.960 --> 0:45:25.080 your perspective, um, we were just really p oed. We 0:45:25.080 --> 0:45:29.760 were pissed, and we were on, you know, on a 0:45:29.760 --> 0:45:36.440 a tirade to get the album finished, um in in 0:45:36.520 --> 0:45:39.200 a ten day period so that we'd have our own 0:45:39.200 --> 0:45:43.640 input on the album. And the other one was released 0:45:44.480 --> 0:45:49.120 anyway that didn't have our approval and was taken and 0:45:49.160 --> 0:45:51.520 then was taken off the shelves after that, so it's 0:45:51.520 --> 0:45:54.640 a rarity, but you know, it was just all this stuff. 0:45:54.640 --> 0:45:58.440 We were sleeping under the console and taking turns, finishing 0:45:58.480 --> 0:46:02.840 overdubs and before the deadline, you know, to try to 0:46:02.880 --> 0:46:08.080 get our own artistic content on this album. So then 0:46:08.120 --> 0:46:10.600 you switched to Epeck. Though legal wars are behind you 0:46:11.040 --> 0:46:15.839 and you continue to have success. Yes, what was that 0:46:15.960 --> 0:46:19.799 like to be one that success after another? Well, it 0:46:19.880 --> 0:46:26.960 was it was It was fraught with you know, the 0:46:27.040 --> 0:46:31.240 things that naturally come after you've started, and then you're 0:46:31.239 --> 0:46:37.680 trying to sustain you're a career with something that's meaningfully 0:46:37.920 --> 0:46:42.120 creative in your life, and so we were touring more. 0:46:42.320 --> 0:46:44.880 I mean, this is the age old story. You know, 0:46:45.880 --> 0:46:48.880 all the story in the world. You have your lifetime 0:46:48.920 --> 0:46:51.080 to make your first of them and then you know, 0:46:51.560 --> 0:46:53.799 everyone says it, but it's true, and then you're kind 0:46:53.800 --> 0:46:57.440 of forced to hurry up and create and you have 0:46:58.200 --> 0:47:00.719 X amount of time. Rest of it, you're making money 0:47:00.800 --> 0:47:04.279 on the road, and then that's a big that's a 0:47:04.360 --> 0:47:07.319 siren song in itself because you're now you're big and 0:47:07.440 --> 0:47:10.120 popular and you're on the road and there's all this 0:47:10.280 --> 0:47:18.960 other world of of distractions and potential you know, um 0:47:19.120 --> 0:47:25.239 accidents that you're gonna and the potential accidents or what. Well, 0:47:25.280 --> 0:47:30.360 there's there's like the world becomes your oyster, and there's 0:47:30.400 --> 0:47:37.000 there's lavish restaurants, and there's lavish wines and everyone is 0:47:37.120 --> 0:47:41.600 stroking your ego and all those typical things that my 0:47:41.640 --> 0:47:44.600 mom and dad warned us about, the tinsel town of 0:47:44.640 --> 0:47:46.759 it all. You know, we're just like, Oh, I think 0:47:46.800 --> 0:47:50.400 I buy a farm on you know, the Oregon coast, 0:47:50.680 --> 0:47:54.319 a hundred and sixty acre farm, and you know, get 0:47:54.520 --> 0:47:58.319 dune buggies and have horses, and I think I'm like 0:47:58.400 --> 0:48:01.560 gonna be like Neil Young and you know, and go 0:48:01.760 --> 0:48:04.840 there and ride. It's like, only trouble is is fourteen 0:48:04.880 --> 0:48:07.319 hours to get there, you know. So you never get there, 0:48:07.400 --> 0:48:10.000 and then you have to sell the farm, and you 0:48:10.200 --> 0:48:13.280 had another house and you can't afford both of them 0:48:13.320 --> 0:48:16.680 and they won't sell it. Just all of the financial 0:48:17.800 --> 0:48:20.879 hoi filoy and who haa that you have to learn 0:48:20.920 --> 0:48:24.400 the hard way to get through. Okay. So Rock and 0:48:24.520 --> 0:48:27.120 rolls rife with stories of people who earned money they 0:48:27.120 --> 0:48:30.200 didn't get to them. You're working hard, you feel successful. 0:48:30.600 --> 0:48:34.319 Was money trickling down into your account. Well, I was 0:48:34.360 --> 0:48:38.880 spending it pretty fast, but no, I was just to 0:48:38.920 --> 0:48:42.800 be honest, I was, um like, more than a millionaire 0:48:42.880 --> 0:48:46.919 by twenty one, and then really broke by thirty five, 0:48:47.040 --> 0:48:50.160 and then a millionaire again. And in the eighties, you know, 0:48:50.680 --> 0:48:54.719 double millionaire over here and then really hard luck over there. 0:48:54.760 --> 0:48:59.560 It was just a real estate disorder, I think. So 0:49:00.000 --> 0:49:02.280 at this point in time, with all these ups and downs, 0:49:02.520 --> 0:49:04.279 do you think you're really good with money now or 0:49:04.320 --> 0:49:09.439 you're still bad. I don't know one thing about money anymore. Ever, 0:49:09.640 --> 0:49:14.120 I never have. Um, it's been you know, my Achilles 0:49:14.160 --> 0:49:22.000 heel um. But I'm married to somebody that does so yeah, yeah, 0:49:22.080 --> 0:49:28.960 so he's a good yeah watch dog. So okay, you're 0:49:29.000 --> 0:49:32.480 making these records for Epic. Are you happy with those records? 0:49:33.200 --> 0:49:36.080 They were? They were less and less for me, less 0:49:36.120 --> 0:49:41.680 and less um solid artistically that we got a little 0:49:41.719 --> 0:49:45.080 more big for our bridges and hubrists kind of kicked 0:49:45.080 --> 0:49:47.880 in and we were gonna be there. We're gonna fire 0:49:47.960 --> 0:49:49.520 some guys in the band, and then we're going to 0:49:49.640 --> 0:49:51.719 record it the way we want to record it. We're 0:49:51.719 --> 0:49:55.920 gonna you know, be the producers and play more of 0:49:56.000 --> 0:50:01.760 the parts ourselves and um, he got uneven. Those albums 0:50:01.800 --> 0:50:04.840 got pretty uneven, there were They all had really nice 0:50:05.600 --> 0:50:10.160 I think gems in there, but as peace as a whole, 0:50:10.280 --> 0:50:14.600 those albums were kind of you know, scattered and how 0:50:14.600 --> 0:50:16.600 did it end with epic and you end up in Capital. 0:50:16.800 --> 0:50:19.759 We'd sort of had a downturn for a while there 0:50:19.880 --> 0:50:24.439 for all the obvious reasons. And when we decided we 0:50:24.520 --> 0:50:27.480 wanted to try to give it one more college try, 0:50:27.719 --> 0:50:31.000 we hired a manager, we hired we wanted to get 0:50:31.160 --> 0:50:35.640 a new record company and management, and wanted to retool 0:50:35.719 --> 0:50:38.799 our entire image. And so we we got out the 0:50:38.840 --> 0:50:41.839 glam and you know, I got the big hair and 0:50:42.640 --> 0:50:47.359 the fashionistas of rock, you know, and we we went 0:50:47.600 --> 0:50:53.440 very um prince in the revolution with it, and MTV 0:50:53.600 --> 0:50:57.320 started to happen, so then it was all about visuals 0:50:57.719 --> 0:51:00.400 and so you know, we had some of that to 0:51:00.520 --> 0:51:05.840 give over. Um that became obnoxious after Whilbough too, because 0:51:05.840 --> 0:51:11.120 it became overblown about bastic as you well remember, by 0:51:11.120 --> 0:51:14.840 the end of the eighties, the bombast had grown to 0:51:14.880 --> 0:51:18.920 such an extent that when the Seattle explosion came along, 0:51:19.760 --> 0:51:24.640 it was just like what the doctor ordered after MTV. 0:51:24.880 --> 0:51:27.799 You know, let's go back to where we were talking 0:51:27.800 --> 0:51:30.800 about the money. If you never played another note on stage, 0:51:31.120 --> 0:51:32.680 do you have enough money to get to the end. 0:51:32.880 --> 0:51:35.200 I have some savings, now, that's what I mean. I mean, 0:51:35.239 --> 0:51:38.160 you have enough saved and there's enough income from maybe 0:51:38.200 --> 0:51:41.880 songs or whatever such that if you stopped playing today, 0:51:42.160 --> 0:51:48.040 you could retire on that money. No, I don't think so. Okay, Honestly, um, 0:51:48.120 --> 0:51:53.399 the touring life is was the actual real money and 0:51:53.719 --> 0:51:57.880 not so much the songwriting anymore or the licensing that's 0:51:58.440 --> 0:52:02.040 really really dwindled who next to nothing? So it used 0:52:02.040 --> 0:52:05.000 to be very different. You know. Songwriting used to be 0:52:05.040 --> 0:52:07.680 really lucrative, and I'm sure it is for a lot 0:52:07.680 --> 0:52:10.400 of these guys now, but um, you have to have 0:52:10.719 --> 0:52:14.480 big hits, you know too. And and now it's like 0:52:14.600 --> 0:52:19.160 teams of production and writer teams and it's art by committee, 0:52:19.440 --> 0:52:22.719 you know. But but I used to make really good 0:52:22.760 --> 0:52:29.399 money at songwriting and touring. Um used to loan your songs. Yeah, okay, 0:52:29.440 --> 0:52:31.040 So let's go back and go to the Capital era. 0:52:31.560 --> 0:52:33.920 Is it your decision to clamb it up or is 0:52:33.960 --> 0:52:36.160 it their decision to clamb it up? The league? It 0:52:36.280 --> 0:52:41.240 was sort of a mutually agreed upon thrust, you know, like, Okay, 0:52:41.239 --> 0:52:43.080 we're gonna do it this way. We're gonna go on, 0:52:43.200 --> 0:52:46.239 We're gonna get big makeup, big hair design. You know, 0:52:46.560 --> 0:52:52.120 wardrobe and makeup and hair and um, you know, camera allights, 0:52:52.160 --> 0:52:56.600 action and you know, okay, now simper and pout and 0:52:56.680 --> 0:52:59.360 you know a lot of stuff we would just naturally 0:52:59.400 --> 0:53:02.399 do on a buck stage. But when there's cameras, now 0:53:02.640 --> 0:53:07.239 there's there's you know, lots of teams have been you know, 0:53:07.360 --> 0:53:10.680 cast have been her extras going on, you know, doing there. 0:53:11.680 --> 0:53:17.000 I mean some of those videos sets were just outlandishly ridiculous. 0:53:17.040 --> 0:53:20.719 I mean just ridiculous. And you see that stuff now 0:53:21.040 --> 0:53:24.520 and it's very entertaining because it was so but it's 0:53:24.520 --> 0:53:27.440 so dated, you know, it's so of its time. What 0:53:27.480 --> 0:53:30.759 do your kids say about those videos? They get a 0:53:30.840 --> 0:53:34.600 really good laugh out belly laugh when they see that stuff, 0:53:35.000 --> 0:53:38.080 and so do I. Okay, but now we all remember 0:53:38.120 --> 0:53:41.520 the power of MTV as big as you were, and 0:53:41.600 --> 0:53:44.239 you've been around for years at that point. Once you're 0:53:44.239 --> 0:53:48.759 on MTV, everybody knows who you are. The American living 0:53:48.840 --> 0:53:52.640 room says, hello, Yeah, it was weird because it was 0:53:52.680 --> 0:53:57.120 such a new feature in our story as musicians. And 0:53:57.280 --> 0:54:01.640 at one point somebody said, um, well, oh you must 0:54:01.640 --> 0:54:03.960 have had your boobs done, and I was like, what, 0:54:04.640 --> 0:54:08.399 you know, just because it was accented and um, and 0:54:08.480 --> 0:54:13.080 do you really play the guitar? Yes, it's not a prop, 0:54:13.280 --> 0:54:16.359 you know, And it was just kind of like that's 0:54:16.360 --> 0:54:18.239 where it sort of went over the line in a 0:54:18.280 --> 0:54:23.960 way for the just being having being taken seriously as 0:54:24.000 --> 0:54:27.600 a musician, when it's more like you're now you're a 0:54:27.640 --> 0:54:31.560 sex kitten, and what about the musician part, you know. 0:54:32.040 --> 0:54:34.680 And then in the height of MTV, can you go 0:54:34.760 --> 0:54:39.319 to the grocery store? Not as much? No, I mean, 0:54:40.120 --> 0:54:43.640 especially if Ann and I were together going anywhere, because 0:54:43.680 --> 0:54:46.920 it's like the two of them together is the aspect 0:54:47.000 --> 0:54:50.319 of them together. Um, I could get away with more 0:54:51.000 --> 0:54:55.600 you know, anonymity on my own. And I always like 0:54:55.719 --> 0:54:58.279 to try to go to the store, you know, um, 0:54:58.640 --> 0:55:03.280 to live a normal life. But whether audience that's right, Well, 0:55:03.400 --> 0:55:05.600 you know, I go to the store a lot now, 0:55:05.800 --> 0:55:09.160 and it's great. I like being normal. I like having 0:55:09.160 --> 0:55:13.640 a kitchen in a you know, washerton dryer for Christ's sake. 0:55:14.040 --> 0:55:16.560 But okay, going back to the empty VI era, all 0:55:16.600 --> 0:55:19.200 of a sudden, from the outside looks like the focused 0:55:19.320 --> 0:55:23.520 changes from your sister to you. Well, there was that 0:55:23.719 --> 0:55:27.640 too that was going on with her weight at the 0:55:27.719 --> 0:55:34.919 time was um less than what was supposedly acceptable, So 0:55:35.840 --> 0:55:39.359 she wasn't you know. They they there were some mean 0:55:39.440 --> 0:55:43.399 spirited things going on in the press about it. When 0:55:43.440 --> 0:55:46.200 we were playing shows, they would comment more about that 0:55:46.320 --> 0:55:51.200 than the show about her, you know, her her weight 0:55:51.680 --> 0:55:55.799 and that. Then they would contrast me to her and say, 0:55:55.840 --> 0:56:02.320 you know the demure um, you know, the blonde, sexy 0:56:02.400 --> 0:56:08.160 demure sister and then the the sort of overweight Catterwallen sister, 0:56:08.920 --> 0:56:10.839 and it was just really mean. A lot of that 0:56:10.840 --> 0:56:14.480 stuff was really mean. So we started to say, don't 0:56:14.480 --> 0:56:19.200 show us any reviews unless they're good, and then we 0:56:19.239 --> 0:56:24.040 didn't really see any reviews. But it was just a 0:56:24.080 --> 0:56:28.160 weird time um that was so focused on image and 0:56:28.440 --> 0:56:31.960 less on music that it I think that was part 0:56:32.000 --> 0:56:35.440 of 's issue. It's like she felt so much pressure. 0:56:35.760 --> 0:56:37.640 How did the two of you get along during that era. 0:56:38.040 --> 0:56:41.439 We had a harder time just as people getting through 0:56:41.480 --> 0:56:45.520 that era because of the pressure on me too before 0:56:45.719 --> 0:56:49.360 in front and when she had started the band, you know, 0:56:49.719 --> 0:56:53.480 and uh, and she was going through her own sort 0:56:53.480 --> 0:56:57.680 of personal stuff issues and I'm fighting with her own demons, 0:56:58.200 --> 0:57:01.000 and so it was right. I mean, we had the 0:57:01.000 --> 0:57:06.279 most money and but the least the least amount of 0:57:06.360 --> 0:57:10.719 joy from that whole era. And you know, there was 0:57:10.840 --> 0:57:15.360 just one day where they offered us like one million 0:57:15.440 --> 0:57:19.560 dollars to play a show at a festival somewhere, But 0:57:19.600 --> 0:57:21.200 it just happened to be the day that I had 0:57:21.240 --> 0:57:25.840 planned on getting married, you know, and I said, no, 0:57:26.160 --> 0:57:29.720 I mean, not one million dollars is going to change 0:57:29.760 --> 0:57:34.680 my mind. So you know, there's there's always ethical issues 0:57:34.760 --> 0:57:38.400 going on in that era, and a lot of it 0:57:38.480 --> 0:57:44.439 was artistically ethical issues. Okay, but at that point, once 0:57:44.440 --> 0:57:50.000 you're a capital, you're now using co writers, other people involved. 0:57:49.160 --> 0:57:56.800 We were, um, we were sort of encouraged by way 0:57:56.840 --> 0:58:02.960 of um, sort of how do you say, we won't 0:58:03.080 --> 0:58:09.400 back you, we won't back your album threatened, that's the word. Um. 0:58:09.440 --> 0:58:12.560 If we didn't use outside writers, the stable of l 0:58:12.600 --> 0:58:16.440 A hit makers typewriters, we could have a few of 0:58:16.440 --> 0:58:18.840 our own songs on the albums too. If we went 0:58:18.920 --> 0:58:22.200 with the hits that they chose from other writers, which 0:58:22.280 --> 0:58:26.160 that had written other writers have written, so you know, 0:58:26.240 --> 0:58:29.760 that was happening everywhere. It was Aerosmith, it was all 0:58:29.800 --> 0:58:33.040 the rock bands were doing it, all the big power ballads. 0:58:33.080 --> 0:58:38.520 You know. But even what was it like, because you 0:58:38.720 --> 0:58:41.600 have bona fides as a musician, so what was it 0:58:41.640 --> 0:58:45.400 like being thrust in that situation? It was? It was weird. 0:58:45.600 --> 0:58:50.800 I mean, we'd always prided ourselves on being originally active 0:58:51.080 --> 0:58:54.840 you know writers and um, even though we sort of 0:58:54.880 --> 0:59:01.840 lost some of our thread, you know, as talented hit songwriter, UM, 0:59:01.960 --> 0:59:06.480 being kind of forced having these other priders forced down 0:59:06.560 --> 0:59:09.880 our throats in a way was really upsetting and kind 0:59:09.920 --> 0:59:16.840 of um. It was you know, it was it was upsetting. 0:59:17.000 --> 0:59:20.479 And a lot of the songs we would audition, song 0:59:20.600 --> 0:59:23.960 after song after song after song with the then producer 0:59:24.800 --> 0:59:27.680 just cossette tape cassette tape cassette tape, song after song 0:59:27.760 --> 0:59:30.480 after song, and there were so many that were so 0:59:30.600 --> 0:59:34.000 formulaic and so much the same, and so many that 0:59:34.080 --> 0:59:40.600 were demo singers, um singing about some guy broke my heart, 0:59:41.400 --> 0:59:44.520 just like the Victim of the Victim and the Victim 0:59:44.560 --> 0:59:49.640 and more Victims and um or like the Sexy Chick songs. 0:59:49.760 --> 0:59:54.440 And it was just like really disappointing, and it was 0:59:54.920 --> 0:59:58.480 it was very narrow. It was a very narrow um 0:59:58.640 --> 1:00:02.200 line to walk. So we did find beautiful songs. We 1:00:02.320 --> 1:00:08.400 found these Dreams, which um, they didn't even want us 1:00:08.440 --> 1:00:11.520 to actually do, but I said, I have to do 1:00:11.560 --> 1:00:15.240 this song. This one's for me, and um and Bernie 1:00:15.280 --> 1:00:21.320 Topen's lyrics are always amazing. Um and Alone, great song, 1:00:22.400 --> 1:00:26.360 and a few others. But um, it was just really strange. 1:00:26.440 --> 1:00:29.240 Put your feature to the fire, and you know, in 1:00:29.360 --> 1:00:31.520 order to save a couple of your own originals, you 1:00:31.560 --> 1:00:35.440 have to do these other, big, bombastic ones. And so 1:00:35.520 --> 1:00:38.680 what was it like? Was it as satisfying having kids 1:00:38.680 --> 1:00:41.320 with somebody else's songs as it was having kids with 1:00:41.360 --> 1:00:46.480 your own? Um? No, Actually it was just a pride issue, 1:00:46.520 --> 1:00:51.400 like artistic you know control. I mean I loved I've 1:00:51.400 --> 1:00:55.120 grown to love songs like Alone and songs like these 1:00:55.200 --> 1:00:59.320 Dreams a lot because I think they hold integrity and 1:00:59.320 --> 1:01:04.920 they're kind of aimeless and and there there it's about 1:01:04.960 --> 1:01:11.920 more than just wimpy girls, you know, acting whimpy um, 1:01:11.920 --> 1:01:18.240 whining whining whimpy girls. But um, but yeah, I think 1:01:18.920 --> 1:01:21.760 it was it's it's a hollow victory when you have 1:01:22.040 --> 1:01:27.680 Huger success with less of your own footprint to you know, 1:01:27.720 --> 1:01:32.000 to show for it. And so how does it end 1:01:32.000 --> 1:01:34.520 in the capitol years? Is it you know, all of 1:01:34.560 --> 1:01:37.720 a sudden records aren't successful or what happens? Um? I 1:01:37.760 --> 1:01:41.080 think we had the deal that was for a couple 1:01:41.120 --> 1:01:45.440 of albums, I think, and we've fulfilled our agreement and 1:01:45.440 --> 1:01:49.320 we've done our deed and we'd um sort of reached 1:01:50.560 --> 1:01:56.560 a we've kind of reached our um critical mass as 1:01:56.600 --> 1:02:01.600 a band with the issues with Waite and the imaging 1:02:01.640 --> 1:02:04.440 and the end of the eighties and how music was 1:02:04.480 --> 1:02:08.680 about to explode into something completely different. So we kind 1:02:08.680 --> 1:02:12.760 of decided to let it lay at that. Let us 1:02:12.800 --> 1:02:17.400 just let us sit and take a sabbatical and go 1:02:17.520 --> 1:02:20.520 home and you know, get some time at home and 1:02:20.560 --> 1:02:24.960 see our family and do some laundry, have a kitchen 1:02:25.040 --> 1:02:28.440 and washer and dryer, and um drive a car, oh 1:02:28.480 --> 1:02:32.840 my god. And uh so we we kind of made 1:02:32.880 --> 1:02:37.080 the Lovemongers. Then well, we sort of had it with 1:02:37.120 --> 1:02:41.320 the big sporting event type you know, rock shows, where 1:02:41.720 --> 1:02:45.360 it was it was just too big, too much, and 1:02:45.400 --> 1:02:49.040 the pressure was to to be like like an MTV 1:02:49.200 --> 1:02:52.600 video all the time. So we decided we put on 1:02:52.600 --> 1:02:56.400 our combat boots and go to Seattle and kick around 1:02:56.480 --> 1:03:00.680 in some some clubs again and where you could just 1:03:00.720 --> 1:03:04.000 see the whites of their eyes and connect and just 1:03:04.080 --> 1:03:06.600 do whatever the heck we wanted to do song wise, 1:03:06.680 --> 1:03:11.200 Like we covered Moody Blues, and we covered stones, and 1:03:11.200 --> 1:03:14.600 we did our own stuff too, and some new stuff, 1:03:14.600 --> 1:03:17.160 and we made a couple albums. We made a good 1:03:17.280 --> 1:03:20.880 uh Christmas album, and we made a album called Whirlygig. 1:03:21.520 --> 1:03:24.040 We just had a blast. It was just it was 1:03:24.120 --> 1:03:27.320 like everything was lifted off of us and it was 1:03:27.360 --> 1:03:33.440 back to you know, making no money, actually paying to 1:03:33.560 --> 1:03:39.360 play basically. But it was really fulfilling. So ultimately good experience, 1:03:39.640 --> 1:03:45.480 very good experience, and that brings us with yeah, I 1:03:45.520 --> 1:03:48.800 guess so. And then what was the thinking then? Well, 1:03:48.840 --> 1:03:54.720 I was decided to start a family, and so I 1:03:54.760 --> 1:03:57.160 couldn't be kind of on tour with heart, you know, 1:03:57.200 --> 1:04:01.600 we kind of had put it on hold. And then um, 1:04:01.640 --> 1:04:06.080 instead of going back out with heart, UM, I stayed 1:04:06.080 --> 1:04:08.240 at home for a few years just trying to to 1:04:09.560 --> 1:04:13.880 you know, do fertility stuff and start my family, which 1:04:14.000 --> 1:04:17.680 took longer than I ever expected it would take. Starting 1:04:17.680 --> 1:04:20.600 at an older age at that time, and then um 1:04:20.800 --> 1:04:24.800 so Anne went out on her own and did like 1:04:25.000 --> 1:04:29.040 a bunch of like Marine Corps bases, and I guess 1:04:29.040 --> 1:04:32.480 there was like a Marlborough sponsorship or something like that, 1:04:33.080 --> 1:04:36.960 and she, you know, she kept on going, and I, 1:04:38.720 --> 1:04:41.120 you know, it took me quite a while to get 1:04:41.120 --> 1:04:44.400 back to doing Heart after I had my kids and 1:04:44.400 --> 1:04:46.880 they were two years old and we went back out 1:04:46.880 --> 1:04:51.960 and oh two the summer of love to her, Now 1:04:52.000 --> 1:04:55.400 that you have kids and you've done everything, is it 1:04:55.440 --> 1:04:57.800 possible to do everything? Is it possible to be a 1:04:57.800 --> 1:05:02.360 world famous rock star and I have a thing or well, 1:05:03.040 --> 1:05:09.360 I think it's next to impossible. I'm not sure how 1:05:09.520 --> 1:05:13.760 I've managed to do it. I mean, it's the biggest 1:05:14.360 --> 1:05:19.400 um stress that I've ever felt, was to try to 1:05:19.480 --> 1:05:23.160 balance how much to tour and how much to be 1:05:23.240 --> 1:05:28.360 home and in order to get enough to survive and 1:05:28.440 --> 1:05:32.520 afford everything at the same time. So it's something that 1:05:32.560 --> 1:05:35.880 I think a lot of career women, not just in music, 1:05:35.960 --> 1:05:38.960 but a lot of women have to deal with. And 1:05:39.000 --> 1:05:43.520 if if they're highly paid career women, then you've got 1:05:43.800 --> 1:05:46.640 you've got a team of experts to help with your kids. 1:05:47.320 --> 1:05:50.320 But a lot of people don't so you know, and 1:05:50.360 --> 1:05:52.200 I wanted to be on the ground. I wanted to 1:05:52.240 --> 1:05:55.480 be I didn't want to miss it either. So we 1:05:55.480 --> 1:05:59.280 were doing a lot of tours where they would come out. 1:06:00.240 --> 1:06:02.479 We'd have the diaper pail on the tour of us 1:06:02.520 --> 1:06:05.800 and we you don't have the babies, the football sized 1:06:05.920 --> 1:06:10.680 kids out with us. And then we'd have when they 1:06:10.680 --> 1:06:12.840 got bigger and they had to start school, then we'd 1:06:12.880 --> 1:06:16.640 have them come out for breaks and UM, have a 1:06:16.720 --> 1:06:19.800 nanny come with them and somebody to watch them when 1:06:19.840 --> 1:06:22.880 we were on the stage, feed him, get him to 1:06:22.920 --> 1:06:25.880 bed when we were before the show is over. So 1:06:26.000 --> 1:06:28.960 we've worked on it from every angle as much as 1:06:29.000 --> 1:06:32.040 we could work on it that way, and being able 1:06:32.080 --> 1:06:34.200 to see your kids and have your job at the 1:06:34.240 --> 1:06:37.840 same time, but it's hard when your job is traveling. 1:06:38.160 --> 1:06:43.000 You know, your kids are not you know, they're not 1:06:43.280 --> 1:06:49.320 vag born vagabonds like like me. You know, the military 1:06:49.560 --> 1:06:53.720 to our life. That's how we started. So it's interesting. 1:06:54.040 --> 1:06:57.200 So do you have any regrets that you didn't spend 1:06:57.320 --> 1:06:59.520 enough time with your kids or we didn't give them enough. 1:07:00.520 --> 1:07:05.080 I've I've pulled, I've been pulled apart a lot about it. 1:07:05.720 --> 1:07:09.200 UM feeling like I was going to miss a lot, 1:07:09.280 --> 1:07:14.560 and I missed some of it. And but you know, 1:07:15.240 --> 1:07:19.040 I do music, so that's my job. So that's I 1:07:19.040 --> 1:07:24.800 think that's the that's the sacrifice. Um. The most important 1:07:24.880 --> 1:07:27.760 part of the time together, though, is the quality of 1:07:27.800 --> 1:07:31.520 the time together. Sounds very you know, died in the 1:07:31.520 --> 1:07:34.560 world tried and true, but it is true that if 1:07:34.600 --> 1:07:38.919 you're present and you're really there, you're not just oh, 1:07:39.040 --> 1:07:44.000 I've just gotta you know, sort of be the token 1:07:44.040 --> 1:07:46.360 parent in the house. You know, it's like, no, you're 1:07:46.400 --> 1:07:49.840 gonna get You're gonna climb into the cardboard box with them, 1:07:49.920 --> 1:07:52.440 and you're gonna show them how to cook, and you're 1:07:52.440 --> 1:07:55.640 gonna watch the movies and read the books out loud 1:07:55.720 --> 1:07:58.920 at night, help them fall asleep and all of it. 1:07:59.440 --> 1:08:01.080 And if this point in time, it's kind of a 1:08:01.080 --> 1:08:04.560 difficult question in terms of to put yourself in these shoes. 1:08:05.240 --> 1:08:08.240 Do you feel that if you hadn't had children you 1:08:08.240 --> 1:08:14.800 would be is fulfilled? I always really wanted to have children, Um, 1:08:14.840 --> 1:08:19.120 and I'm a natural nurturing type person. So you know, 1:08:19.120 --> 1:08:22.000 I've always had dogs and I've just always been that person. 1:08:22.320 --> 1:08:25.160 Our mom was like that ends much more like our 1:08:25.240 --> 1:08:28.519 dad you know, so she's more kind of the aloof one. 1:08:29.160 --> 1:08:32.640 I'm more the hands on mommy type person. Okay, but 1:08:32.680 --> 1:08:35.240 you didn't have your kids until relatively late, so it 1:08:35.320 --> 1:08:37.200 was in the back of your mind all these years 1:08:37.240 --> 1:08:39.439 on the road. Wow, while my kids, am I going 1:08:39.520 --> 1:08:42.599 to have them? Not have them? Yeah? I always planned 1:08:42.600 --> 1:08:45.559 on having them, and I figured, you know, well, when 1:08:45.560 --> 1:08:49.080 the time is right, and then the next big wave 1:08:49.120 --> 1:08:52.599 would happen, you know, like you fight for the wave 1:08:52.680 --> 1:08:55.040 to happen, and then the wave comes and then you 1:08:55.080 --> 1:08:58.080 have to, you know, work for the wave and the 1:08:58.080 --> 1:09:02.280 wave carries you. So um, the timing was difficult, and 1:09:02.360 --> 1:09:05.360 I never felt that it would ever be if I 1:09:05.360 --> 1:09:10.320 don't make it happen and stop myself from continuing on 1:09:10.360 --> 1:09:13.840 the never ending cycle, that it would ever happen. So 1:09:14.960 --> 1:09:18.840 I stopped on purpose and just for that thing. And 1:09:18.880 --> 1:09:21.439 so people I don't have children, but people say, you know, 1:09:21.479 --> 1:09:24.200 once the kids are born, you know, it changes your 1:09:24.240 --> 1:09:26.800 life and it's the most important thing. Most people don't 1:09:26.800 --> 1:09:30.360 have the level of success in their career as you've had. Now. 1:09:30.400 --> 1:09:32.639 I don't want to do a direct comparison between career 1:09:32.680 --> 1:09:36.720 success and children, but what's it like from your perspective, Well, 1:09:36.760 --> 1:09:40.599 I think career success. We've lived our lifetime at least 1:09:40.640 --> 1:09:45.040 three or four times as as careerists. You know. Um, 1:09:45.080 --> 1:09:48.000 we're lucky if we we can still get arrested. I'm 1:09:48.040 --> 1:09:52.280 sure if heart goes out again, um, which remains to 1:09:52.320 --> 1:09:57.439 be seen. But uh, I think having the kids, the 1:09:57.520 --> 1:10:03.680 fulfillment of being a parent, and just the raw and 1:10:04.760 --> 1:10:08.680 insane pain of being a parent, and the responsibility and 1:10:08.720 --> 1:10:12.000 fear of being a parent, and fearing for the life 1:10:12.000 --> 1:10:16.160 of your child and the safety and all of the 1:10:16.640 --> 1:10:21.960 you know, all of the exasperating elements of parenting it. 1:10:22.479 --> 1:10:27.880 It also injects you with a a deeper sense of humanity, 1:10:27.920 --> 1:10:33.080 which then translates into the work. So I feel like 1:10:33.120 --> 1:10:36.479 the songs I've been writing now are way more kind 1:10:36.479 --> 1:10:40.639 of generated from a deeper place, not just a place 1:10:41.000 --> 1:10:44.040 I'm gonna get some dudes you know, or you know, 1:10:44.120 --> 1:10:47.000 but or just be you know, on a rock stage 1:10:47.000 --> 1:10:54.320 where people dig me. But it's a human thing. This 1:10:54.400 --> 1:10:56.040 is Bob left Step. So I'm a writer and you 1:10:56.040 --> 1:10:58.439 could read my stuff at left steps dot com. I'd 1:10:58.479 --> 1:11:00.800 like to invite you to attend my mu Sick Media Summit. 1:11:00.880 --> 1:11:04.000 Santa Barbara the last weekend enabled I'd love for you 1:11:04.040 --> 1:11:06.080 to come and learn from the best in the business, 1:11:06.120 --> 1:11:08.960 like Troy Carter of Spotify. If you're interested, go to 1:11:09.040 --> 1:11:12.840 Music Media Summit dot com to sign up. And now 1:11:13.320 --> 1:11:16.040 let's dive right back in with my guest Nancy Wilson. 1:11:19.400 --> 1:11:21.439 You reform the band in two thousand two, you go 1:11:21.479 --> 1:11:24.120 on the Summer of Love tour. Is there any idea 1:11:24.280 --> 1:11:26.880 of where you are in the marketplace? Do you think 1:11:26.920 --> 1:11:28.880 you can have hits again? Do you don't think you're 1:11:28.880 --> 1:11:33.920 gonna have hits again? What's the mind thought through there? Well, Um, 1:11:33.960 --> 1:11:37.920 we were out working the We were just ready to 1:11:37.960 --> 1:11:41.679 get out and work the real estate again and still 1:11:41.760 --> 1:11:46.600 tickets play heart songs that people know. Um, you know, 1:11:46.720 --> 1:11:51.000 we weren't really trying to write new stuff. We were 1:11:51.040 --> 1:11:53.000 just trying to get back on some kind of a 1:11:53.080 --> 1:11:58.400 track with me back in the band. And um, we 1:11:58.520 --> 1:12:02.200 played every single place with Electricity. You know, we went 1:12:02.960 --> 1:12:06.920 for the next like however many years till the last 1:12:07.080 --> 1:12:10.320 couple of years ago, we've been out playing every place 1:12:10.320 --> 1:12:13.920 with Electricity. You play essentially every summer, every summer mainly 1:12:14.080 --> 1:12:16.360 and the ship times, in the in the falls, and 1:12:16.640 --> 1:12:21.400 sometimes in the winter. How many A couple of hundred times. 1:12:21.800 --> 1:12:24.800 That's a lot of work. There's no there's nary a 1:12:24.880 --> 1:12:30.639 comfort zone to be had, like eighty two hundred sometimes two? Okay, 1:12:30.680 --> 1:12:34.519 who's the manager now? Um? Right now we're between Okay, 1:12:34.520 --> 1:12:40.080 who was the manager before? Carol Peters? Okay, so you're out. 1:12:40.640 --> 1:12:43.479 How do you feel playing the same I'm a writer. 1:12:43.560 --> 1:12:45.720 One of the bad things I have is I'll write 1:12:45.720 --> 1:12:47.800 something great, so that's it. I can't write it again, 1:12:47.920 --> 1:12:50.559 you know whatever. Whereas a musician can play the same 1:12:50.600 --> 1:12:53.439 song to eternity. But what's up like being on stage 1:12:53.800 --> 1:12:57.160 playing Crazy on You? You know, forty years later? Well, 1:12:58.120 --> 1:13:01.000 it's a it's really a testament to songs like Crazy 1:13:01.040 --> 1:13:05.840 on You and Barracuda that they're still fun to play. Um, 1:13:05.880 --> 1:13:09.960 and you see people react to it. Um, you know, 1:13:10.920 --> 1:13:13.800 I don't think Anne feels the same way. How do 1:13:13.800 --> 1:13:16.840 you think she feels? I think she feels more like, um, 1:13:16.880 --> 1:13:19.600 you know, I've done this enough and I want to 1:13:19.640 --> 1:13:24.000 do something really different and fun and for herself. But 1:13:24.640 --> 1:13:27.519 I still get a big drill out of like doing 1:13:27.520 --> 1:13:31.439 the kick when Crazy on You start and seeing people 1:13:31.479 --> 1:13:35.040 go nuts, and it's just like it's a high and 1:13:35.680 --> 1:13:38.479 songs like Barracuda and I have new band, now to 1:13:38.720 --> 1:13:42.320 a new band. Um, we're gonna get to that. But 1:13:42.360 --> 1:13:44.840 let's say, okay, so you do this. You go out 1:13:44.880 --> 1:13:48.200 every summer. Let's say you play and you're off stage 1:13:48.200 --> 1:13:53.800 eleven pm. Okay, when do you fall asleep? But too 1:13:54.280 --> 1:13:56.760 probably around two. And this is in a bus. In 1:13:56.760 --> 1:14:00.720 a bus to wind down, it takes a while to 1:14:00.800 --> 1:14:04.240 wind down, and you normally you want to have like 1:14:04.560 --> 1:14:07.160 something to eat, you know, because you couldn't eat before 1:14:07.200 --> 1:14:09.559 the show. You were nervous, So you have to have 1:14:09.640 --> 1:14:12.800 something sensible to eat that's not pizza. So you have 1:14:12.880 --> 1:14:15.360 to try to make something on the bus before the 1:14:15.400 --> 1:14:18.439 bus pulls away, so you're not jostling around trying to 1:14:18.479 --> 1:14:21.960 cook anything. So I got pretty good at cooking in 1:14:22.000 --> 1:14:26.759 the kitchenette on the bus the galley. Um. And then 1:14:27.400 --> 1:14:29.640 you kind of want to recap the night with the 1:14:29.680 --> 1:14:34.040 band members um or or try to watch a movie 1:14:34.160 --> 1:14:39.120 and just kind of, you know, unspool the energy. And 1:14:40.640 --> 1:14:42.800 because you know, once you go back into your bunk, 1:14:42.880 --> 1:14:45.280 it's just like you're in a little you're you're kind 1:14:45.280 --> 1:14:49.400 of stuck by yourself. Yeah right, I mean, some you 1:14:49.400 --> 1:14:52.240 can watch stuff in there too on your on your laptop, 1:14:52.280 --> 1:14:55.639 but it's jostling around and you can't really sleep very 1:14:55.640 --> 1:14:59.120 well anyway, so you know, and then you if if 1:14:59.160 --> 1:15:02.400 you're lucky, you can sleep, you can wake up at 1:15:02.439 --> 1:15:07.200 the gig the next gig and sleep in until sound 1:15:07.280 --> 1:15:10.639 check starts, and then you get up and do your 1:15:10.640 --> 1:15:14.599 sound check and do your hair and makeup and go play. 1:15:14.680 --> 1:15:19.640 But it's um, it's you know, and the hotels are 1:15:19.720 --> 1:15:22.320 not so much to brag about usually because you're trying 1:15:22.360 --> 1:15:27.120 to save money and so it's it's really kind of 1:15:29.600 --> 1:15:33.360 the best part of any rock and roll tour day 1:15:33.400 --> 1:15:37.360 is the two hours on stage. It's just that, you know, 1:15:37.439 --> 1:15:42.280 transcendent thing, and it's the thrill of people coming and 1:15:42.560 --> 1:15:46.800 shin sharing with you, you know, and the songs themselves 1:15:46.880 --> 1:15:53.400 are the the honey that draws draws the b and 1:15:53.479 --> 1:15:55.599 So let's assume you went on the road for three 1:15:55.600 --> 1:15:58.080 months and you come home. How long does it take 1:15:58.120 --> 1:16:05.519 to recover from that, um, well, it takes about it 1:16:05.520 --> 1:16:10.240 takes about three or four days or a week. Um too. 1:16:10.320 --> 1:16:13.920 Kind of the momentum that you're so used to, the 1:16:13.920 --> 1:16:17.080 momentum of always going and going and going and getting 1:16:17.120 --> 1:16:24.120 there doing that and going some more and never really stopping. Um, 1:16:24.240 --> 1:16:27.320 you're kind of like, wait a minute, I'm sitting here, 1:16:27.960 --> 1:16:31.000 you know, I'm looking at a piece of dust in 1:16:31.080 --> 1:16:34.040 the in the air. You know. It's sort of like 1:16:34.080 --> 1:16:37.799 that moment where you're like, Wow, should I meditate or something? 1:16:38.360 --> 1:16:43.040 You know, it's it's a real it's a it's really 1:16:44.960 --> 1:16:48.400 jarring when you stop. Yeah. So I mean this is 1:16:48.439 --> 1:16:51.920 public information. But on the last part tour, the public 1:16:51.960 --> 1:16:54.840 story was there was an altercation between Hand's husband and 1:16:54.840 --> 1:16:59.920 your children. Where does that leave the relationships now? Well, 1:17:00.240 --> 1:17:04.040 you know, right now, sadly, it's hasn't left it in 1:17:04.040 --> 1:17:07.680 a good place at all. Um. You know, I know 1:17:08.000 --> 1:17:12.120 Anna and I will always adore each other, and UM, 1:17:12.240 --> 1:17:18.520 I Wanna, you know, always attested loving each other. But 1:17:18.600 --> 1:17:23.920 that was just kind of a weird UM. I think 1:17:23.920 --> 1:17:26.680 it was kind of a power move, um and a 1:17:26.760 --> 1:17:30.400 control thing. In addition to the rub be bad behavior, 1:17:30.720 --> 1:17:35.560 there was that subtext Yeah that's what I believe and um, 1:17:35.600 --> 1:17:38.439 and it's been sort of that way ever since. And 1:17:39.160 --> 1:17:42.680 I understand her desire to get out there and not 1:17:42.800 --> 1:17:46.040 do the same thing, you know, and not be holed 1:17:46.120 --> 1:17:51.920 into the the heart machine, you know, Um, But I 1:17:51.920 --> 1:17:56.479 think the sad part. I mean, I respect her wishes 1:17:56.600 --> 1:17:59.040 to go out and try new stuff, which I think 1:17:59.120 --> 1:18:03.000 is great for her and healthy for her, um, But 1:18:03.479 --> 1:18:06.920 for me, for the fans, I think it's a sad 1:18:07.000 --> 1:18:11.680 thing because we still have it in us too to 1:18:11.760 --> 1:18:14.800 take it around. You know. So are you again in 1:18:14.920 --> 1:18:19.120 communication with Ann? Not really. I kind of put it 1:18:19.160 --> 1:18:21.160 out there but a few times and it's just not 1:18:21.280 --> 1:18:25.559 coming back. You know. From an outside observer, it would 1:18:25.640 --> 1:18:28.519 seem that it was her husband who was accused of 1:18:28.520 --> 1:18:31.240 bad behavior, so we think that she would be the 1:18:31.240 --> 1:18:34.639 one who wanted to be apologetic. Well, I think she's, Um, 1:18:36.080 --> 1:18:40.640 she wants to apologize for him right and protect him. 1:18:41.479 --> 1:18:46.320 It's her first real relationship since the very beginning, so 1:18:47.120 --> 1:18:50.519 you know, she's I think she's protecting her new found 1:18:51.520 --> 1:18:54.720 relationship and that's more important to her right now than 1:18:55.720 --> 1:18:59.519 any event. You're a menable to getting the sinews, you know, 1:18:59.640 --> 1:19:03.160 building again the first on a personal level, So it's 1:19:03.200 --> 1:19:06.040 more on her end that she's rel I think she's 1:19:06.080 --> 1:19:09.000 reluctant and she's going to have to figure it out 1:19:09.120 --> 1:19:12.719 for a while and maybe be ready maybe not. Well eventually, 1:19:12.800 --> 1:19:14.519 you know, I hate to be so you know, bottom 1:19:14.520 --> 1:19:17.479 line about this. Eventually, the money makes everybody ready, even 1:19:17.520 --> 1:19:19.040 the Eagles, you know, the Eagle said they were going 1:19:19.080 --> 1:19:21.320 to reform. Glynn Fry died and they're out on the 1:19:21.400 --> 1:19:24.320 road right now. And that was even after the hell 1:19:24.360 --> 1:19:29.360 froze over one exactly is better than ever. You would 1:19:29.360 --> 1:19:34.040 like to tell you everybody. Everybody's farewell thing now it's 1:19:34.400 --> 1:19:38.000 it's so great, like Elton John's very well Yellow Brick 1:19:38.080 --> 1:19:42.120 Road tour. It's like three shows love last three years 1:19:42.240 --> 1:19:45.519 or something that's like, you know, George Straight retired from touring, well, 1:19:45.520 --> 1:19:49.360 I retired from touring, not live performing. Saw play in Vegas, 1:19:49.960 --> 1:19:54.040 So I'll set up a yeah, Vegas residency or something. 1:19:54.160 --> 1:19:56.040 My favorite I'm talking a little lot of school. As 1:19:56.040 --> 1:19:58.519 a friend of mine's the agent for the Scorpions. He said, 1:19:58.640 --> 1:20:00.880 you want to go to the Forum tonight if I 1:20:00.960 --> 1:20:04.439 know those guys a little bit whatever anyway, and he says, 1:20:04.520 --> 1:20:06.280 you know, it's a farewell. Says yeah, the new album's 1:20:06.320 --> 1:20:10.320 coming in October. It's like, wait a minute, I thought 1:20:10.320 --> 1:20:13.360 it was a farewell until the new album comes out. 1:20:13.600 --> 1:20:15.519 So but in any of them, how many times did 1:20:15.560 --> 1:20:19.080 the Stones do that right, although at this point in time, 1:20:19.520 --> 1:20:21.639 I think people are literally going to the Stones because 1:20:21.640 --> 1:20:24.759 they think it may be the last time. The irony 1:20:24.760 --> 1:20:27.200 being I've seen the Stones a zillion times, and they 1:20:27.200 --> 1:20:29.000 were kind of like the Grateful Dead. They played for 1:20:29.000 --> 1:20:31.800 an hour and a half. Half hour be terrible, half 1:20:31.800 --> 1:20:34.360 hour would be mediocre, and an half hour be locked 1:20:34.560 --> 1:20:39.679 right on. But I saw them. You know, your Mick 1:20:39.880 --> 1:20:42.920 was the only week link was Keith ironically occasionally hit 1:20:42.920 --> 1:20:44.960 a bad note. Mick was as good as ever. It 1:20:45.000 --> 1:20:47.920 was kind of a stone. He's yeah, he's in. He's 1:20:47.960 --> 1:20:52.519 the energizer. Bunny father was a gym teacher. He's taking 1:20:52.600 --> 1:20:54.880 off on that. So in any event, you have a 1:20:54.920 --> 1:20:58.000 new band. Was that something you always wanted to do? 1:20:58.120 --> 1:20:59.800 Or is that as a result of the discord in 1:20:59.840 --> 1:21:04.960 the camp? Well, it was something that that sort of 1:21:05.000 --> 1:21:08.840 fell together for both of those things, for the reason 1:21:08.880 --> 1:21:11.160 of the discord in the camp, but also for the 1:21:11.200 --> 1:21:15.200 reason of having run into and um met up with 1:21:15.320 --> 1:21:20.080 Liz live Warfield, who from Prince's New Power Generation, who 1:21:20.080 --> 1:21:22.639 opened for us at the Hollywood Bowl a couple of nights, 1:21:23.360 --> 1:21:26.519 and you maintained a relationship with her. Yeah, we we 1:21:26.600 --> 1:21:31.320 hit it off. Her guitar player Ryan waters Um was 1:21:31.360 --> 1:21:34.000 with her and we all started talking about we should 1:21:34.000 --> 1:21:36.479 just do something. She goes, I wanted rod want to 1:21:36.479 --> 1:21:40.240 be relegated in the soul categories quite as much, and 1:21:40.520 --> 1:21:43.160 you know the funk sohul thing. I want to rock. 1:21:43.479 --> 1:21:46.760 You guys rock like we. I should send you some 1:21:46.800 --> 1:21:49.000 of my ideas. And it's like, said, m let's do it. 1:21:49.080 --> 1:21:52.599 Let's be people that that actually do it, not just 1:21:52.760 --> 1:21:56.880 talk about doing it. And we started doing it. And 1:21:56.920 --> 1:22:03.759 then after the heart thing went went sideways, UM started 1:22:03.800 --> 1:22:07.640 before Yeah, we started talking about just something fun to 1:22:07.720 --> 1:22:13.280 do UM And you know, my husband Jeff said, after 1:22:13.320 --> 1:22:15.960 the heart thing kind of went sideways, he said, we 1:22:15.960 --> 1:22:19.679 should do this now right away. Let's get a rehearsal place. 1:22:19.800 --> 1:22:23.000 Let's bring those guys in, fly them in from Seattle 1:22:23.120 --> 1:22:28.120 and in Chicago and have a band meeting and figure 1:22:28.160 --> 1:22:31.519 out what we're doing and do it recorded and we did, 1:22:31.680 --> 1:22:34.519 and we made an album and it's it's a really 1:22:34.520 --> 1:22:37.640 good one. Now you're going out on tour opening for 1:22:37.720 --> 1:22:41.479 see Yeah. We started the tour with opening for Seegar 1:22:41.800 --> 1:22:46.040 Well a few months ago and we uh, we had 1:22:46.080 --> 1:22:51.320 to postpone it. Well, it was offered to heartidentally and 1:22:51.400 --> 1:22:53.280 um and just said no, I don't want to do 1:22:53.320 --> 1:22:57.160 the same thing in anymore. And I said, well, so 1:22:57.280 --> 1:23:00.639 we talked abo above Seeger's people and said, what about 1:23:00.640 --> 1:23:04.679 my new band road Case Royal, and uh, it's actually 1:23:04.680 --> 1:23:09.400 called Nancy Wilson of Heart with roatcase roil has to 1:23:09.479 --> 1:23:12.840 be Yeah, but um, that's cool though, and they said no, 1:23:13.280 --> 1:23:16.320 we just really need to sell tickets, but send us 1:23:16.320 --> 1:23:18.800 your stuff anyway. They when they checked out our our 1:23:18.840 --> 1:23:23.600 album and our videos, they said, wait a sec. We 1:23:23.640 --> 1:23:26.519 wanted we want you to come and do this, you know, 1:23:26.640 --> 1:23:29.320 for next to nothing, which Heart was going to get 1:23:29.360 --> 1:23:32.280 a lot to do, but but for next to nothing. 1:23:32.320 --> 1:23:35.320 It was our our chance to get big exposure and 1:23:35.520 --> 1:23:38.960 start with that. So we did about seven shows with Seeger, 1:23:39.560 --> 1:23:42.200 but then he got his injury into one of his 1:23:42.520 --> 1:23:46.360 neck vertebrae and I had to postpone everything. So it's 1:23:46.400 --> 1:23:49.559 not canceled. We're going back out like in the fall 1:23:49.640 --> 1:23:57.519 after Labor Day. How many probably at least eight and 1:23:57.560 --> 1:24:02.360 it's all like the tour before was going to be sixty. Um, 1:24:02.600 --> 1:24:06.000 is your book for all of those Well, we don't 1:24:06.000 --> 1:24:08.559 have the dates yet, but I mean but the committee 1:24:08.680 --> 1:24:11.680 is the commitment is for everything that they can get us, 1:24:12.400 --> 1:24:16.240 and it's all Arenas. The last leg we were going 1:24:16.280 --> 1:24:20.280 to do was completely sold out Arenas. I'm sure it's 1:24:20.280 --> 1:24:23.679 set will sell out Arenas. He's so good, right, So 1:24:23.920 --> 1:24:26.360 when you go out with your new band, to what 1:24:26.439 --> 1:24:30.360 degree do you play heart songs? We play um like, 1:24:31.320 --> 1:24:34.400 we play crazy on you to finish up the set, 1:24:34.840 --> 1:24:36.840 and I seeing even it up to start the set, 1:24:37.479 --> 1:24:39.920 and then we do these dreams, a new version of 1:24:39.960 --> 1:24:46.280 these dreams um and straight on that other than crazy 1:24:46.280 --> 1:24:48.720 an magic man. Straight on is my favorite Heart that's 1:24:48.720 --> 1:24:50.840 a good one, and we do a cool version. It's 1:24:51.040 --> 1:24:53.919 a little bit, you know, we switched it up. Yeah, 1:24:54.240 --> 1:24:57.160 And so what's reception like? It's been amazing, I think 1:24:57.200 --> 1:25:04.640 because of the stricter security rules nowadays for for you know, 1:25:04.760 --> 1:25:08.680 people coming into the shows, they opened the doors earlier, 1:25:09.200 --> 1:25:12.240 and so by the time we started the show, our 1:25:12.320 --> 1:25:16.280 forty five minutes set, everybody was mostly in the building. 1:25:16.840 --> 1:25:18.880 They were getting their beers and their shirts or whatever, 1:25:19.280 --> 1:25:21.960 and they started hearing a Heart song and they all 1:25:22.000 --> 1:25:24.639 came down. So by the end of our forty five 1:25:24.680 --> 1:25:28.360 minutes set, the whole place was full and they were 1:25:28.400 --> 1:25:31.960 standing up for crazy on you. So it was like, Wow, 1:25:32.000 --> 1:25:35.080 that was good. I can't wait to get back out there. Okay, 1:25:35.120 --> 1:25:37.400 So we live in a world where all the money 1:25:37.479 --> 1:25:40.080 is on the road and it's a road driven business. 1:25:40.120 --> 1:25:42.559 But with your new act, are you doing any of 1:25:42.600 --> 1:25:47.360 the traditional things I e. Radio, etcetera. Yeah, we went 1:25:47.400 --> 1:25:50.800 to a record store and we played an acoustic set 1:25:51.240 --> 1:25:55.160 and went to some radio stations and UM interviewed and 1:25:55.160 --> 1:25:57.800 did some acoustic stuff and you know, we just we 1:25:57.880 --> 1:26:01.720 try to um you know, plant the seas wherever we 1:26:01.800 --> 1:26:04.080 are in the towns, just to get our word out there. 1:26:04.800 --> 1:26:08.360 It's just like starting over. Is that depressing or exciting? 1:26:08.600 --> 1:26:11.800 It's very exciting. Um. These these people in my band 1:26:12.680 --> 1:26:16.760 are just I love them, and we have a thing 1:26:16.880 --> 1:26:22.040 that's just so tied and everybody's experienced. Everybody knows, like 1:26:22.080 --> 1:26:25.800 I said earlier about the language of musicians. You know, 1:26:26.479 --> 1:26:30.000 every we all have the same not only the language, 1:26:30.040 --> 1:26:34.840 but the dialect and the accent everything. And we were 1:26:34.880 --> 1:26:40.040 already you know, each other's besties. And it's so fun 1:26:40.040 --> 1:26:43.720 to play with those guys. Talking about new music, I 1:26:43.760 --> 1:26:46.360 mean just music in general, not your new music. I'll 1:26:46.439 --> 1:26:48.519 leave this person. I'm a very famous guitarist. I was 1:26:48.560 --> 1:26:50.880 talking to him, legendary person, and I asked him about 1:26:50.880 --> 1:26:52.880 new music, and he said, how would I know? I'm 1:26:53.120 --> 1:26:56.759 sixty two. So the question, although you have relatively young children, 1:26:56.880 --> 1:27:00.200 do you keep up with new music? Yeah, I to 1:27:00.240 --> 1:27:04.240 listen to St. Vincent and kind of college station stuff, 1:27:04.400 --> 1:27:07.200 you know, the good song writers that are coming out now. 1:27:07.560 --> 1:27:10.240 But you have younger children, what are they listening to. 1:27:10.439 --> 1:27:14.679 They're listening to classic rock real interestingly. No hip hop, No, 1:27:14.800 --> 1:27:17.400 they don't. They don't go for that. Um. They're eighteen 1:27:17.439 --> 1:27:20.479 two twin boys and one of them just took up 1:27:20.520 --> 1:27:24.280 on his own without by prompting him, took up guitar recently, 1:27:24.960 --> 1:27:28.879 and he's getting good. He's taking some lessons. He's listening 1:27:28.920 --> 1:27:34.639 to Credence, He's listening to you know Zeppelin. Um, oh, 1:27:34.680 --> 1:27:39.360 it's the band that sounds like Zeppelin. Now, great band. 1:27:40.439 --> 1:27:46.400 And you know just all that stuff. I mean, uh 1:27:46.680 --> 1:27:52.320 zz Top and Pig Floyd and just you know everything 1:27:52.320 --> 1:27:56.320 that we would find yummy. And if we're in your houses, 1:27:56.320 --> 1:27:59.479 there music playing in your house. Yeah, I usually have 1:27:59.560 --> 1:28:02.920 a like a Pandora thing going on. Um. I try 1:28:02.960 --> 1:28:06.320 to mix it up. But I do um like the 1:28:06.439 --> 1:28:10.120 Jim James kind of station, and you know, my Morning 1:28:10.200 --> 1:28:14.080 Jackets type station. And then I do actually a classical 1:28:14.160 --> 1:28:20.040 station for Sunday afternoons, Sunday brunch. I mean, our family 1:28:20.080 --> 1:28:22.840 we used to listen to opera on Sundays with pancakes 1:28:22.840 --> 1:28:25.320 and bacon and all that stuff. Could you talk or 1:28:25.360 --> 1:28:27.560 did you have to listen? No? We we talked to me, 1:28:27.600 --> 1:28:30.320 sang along. We learned an really know all the opera. 1:28:30.400 --> 1:28:33.479 We do some of it. Yeah, we used this listen 1:28:33.479 --> 1:28:36.519 to the Makado and some of the same ones. You know, 1:28:36.760 --> 1:28:38.160 that's a big thing for my mother because you know, 1:28:38.200 --> 1:28:41.920 they broadcast the Metropolitan Opera in the theaters. She'll go, 1:28:42.040 --> 1:28:44.160 you know, on Saturdays. But growing up close to New 1:28:44.200 --> 1:28:46.559 York in school, we would go to the opera, which 1:28:46.600 --> 1:28:49.680 was always a cool experience. It was cool even if 1:28:49.760 --> 1:28:52.600 even if it was really boring, right, yeah, exactly what 1:28:53.479 --> 1:28:56.800 was really what? It was cool? Exactly? It was still cool. Said, 1:28:57.080 --> 1:29:00.200 having been a woman who's been very success one in 1:29:00.200 --> 1:29:03.320 the music business, what advice would you give to women 1:29:03.400 --> 1:29:07.000 starting out today? Well, here's my stock answer. I'd turned 1:29:07.040 --> 1:29:12.760 back if I were you. The music. The first thing 1:29:12.920 --> 1:29:15.800 get out, get out of there quick, run like hell 1:29:16.640 --> 1:29:21.600 in the opposite direction. Now, I'd say, um, get proficient, 1:29:21.960 --> 1:29:25.080 be good. If you really want to do it, be 1:29:25.120 --> 1:29:30.840 ready to suffer for it. You know. Fail sound like 1:29:30.840 --> 1:29:33.800 you had a lot of failure. Well, there's been a 1:29:33.800 --> 1:29:36.680 lot of hits and mrs. But when you think of 1:29:36.680 --> 1:29:40.840 the arc of the entire career since seventy six, basically, 1:29:41.680 --> 1:29:45.040 you know that's a long career. But your first album 1:29:45.360 --> 1:29:47.960 was very successful. In an addition, something you could be 1:29:48.000 --> 1:29:50.040 proud of. You put out and you go, oh, man, 1:29:50.120 --> 1:29:51.360 yeah I was a hip but I didn't really want 1:29:51.840 --> 1:29:53.720 so proud of that one. Yeah, I mean, but the 1:29:53.760 --> 1:29:56.559 fact it was hit almost immediately came out of nowhere. 1:29:57.080 --> 1:30:00.559 I know. It was really like a fu in a 1:30:00.600 --> 1:30:04.200 certain way because it was like an indie thing exactly. 1:30:04.920 --> 1:30:07.200 People people are too young now, they said an indie 1:30:07.280 --> 1:30:10.599 record in the seventies just didn't happen, and every major 1:30:10.760 --> 1:30:13.280 was like just a big no way, no way, Jose, 1:30:13.600 --> 1:30:16.880 But they don't really know. I mean John Cougar, Mellencamp 1:30:16.960 --> 1:30:19.320 or whatever he's calling himself this week. You know, he 1:30:19.360 --> 1:30:21.479 had with his breakthrough album they didn't want to put out, 1:30:21.800 --> 1:30:24.280 which was American fool. Right right right, he said, no, 1:30:24.320 --> 1:30:26.280 you gotta put it on. I don't care. The label 1:30:26.439 --> 1:30:28.360 really doesn't know. Having said that, I've dealt with a 1:30:28.360 --> 1:30:30.400 lot of musicians who don't know what a hit single 1:30:30.479 --> 1:30:33.120 is either. But right right. But the woman, well, the 1:30:33.400 --> 1:30:35.800 en in suits, you know, the joke was always that 1:30:35.840 --> 1:30:39.040 they just got their ears painted on. You know, the 1:30:39.040 --> 1:30:46.400 men in the suits in those office it had their ears. 1:30:46.479 --> 1:30:50.920 They just have their ears painted on. They don't have ears, right, 1:30:51.240 --> 1:30:53.320 I think you know, it's always funny to learn something. Listen, 1:30:53.360 --> 1:30:55.840 this has been wonderful. Thanks so much for coming giving 1:30:55.920 --> 1:30:59.280 us perspective. So glad you had me here. Thank you. 1:30:59.439 --> 1:31:02.240 It was great. That's Nancy Wilson of Heart and her 1:31:02.280 --> 1:31:05.519 new band Build with her name and also with The 1:31:05.600 --> 1:31:10.000 road Case, and that's all available on Spotify now right, yeah, exactly, 1:31:10.080 --> 1:31:12.200 sure is the road Case right now? Until next time, 1:31:12.600 --> 1:31:19.680 Thank you so much. That wraps up another episode of 1:31:19.680 --> 1:31:21.559 the Bob Left Sets podcast. I know there are a 1:31:21.560 --> 1:31:23.639 ton of podcasts out there, so thank you so much 1:31:23.640 --> 1:31:27.360 for joining me for this conversation with the great Nancy Wilson. 1:31:27.720 --> 1:31:30.040 Until next time, It's Bob Left Sets