1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,279 Speaker 1: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:06,479 Speaker 1: those of the authors and participants and do not necessarily 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: represent those of iHeart Media, Tenderfoot TV, or their employees. 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: This series contains discussions of violence and sexual violence. Listener 5 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: discretion is advised. Previously on Algorithm, I looked at two 6 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: cases from Hargar's list that, upon closer inspection, looked unlikely 7 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: to be the work of Darren Vaughan. The next day 8 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 1: is when his girlfriend was found in about it big, So, 9 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: I don't think it has anything to do with in 10 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: the serial killer was once in a lifetime thing. And 11 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: I explored Darren Vaughan's confessions with regard to Chicago. Probably 12 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: had a whole while they have they have way more. 13 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: But Bond later contradicted himself and didn't give any specifics 14 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: that could link him to the crimes Hargrove had identified, 15 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: and the interrogation ended abruptly after Vaughan informed detectives that 16 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: he'd spoken with a lawyer. You said you thought lawyer 17 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: day James Giving Day, he gave me a lawyer. You're 18 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: going have told us that in the beginning. I'm not 19 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: I'm not worried of me because I might have to 20 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 1: fire from my heart radio and Tenderfoot TV. This is algorithm. 21 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: When Vaughn was arrested for the murder of Africa Hardy, 22 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: he told police he didn't want to confess to murders 23 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: that took place out of state because he didn't want 24 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: to involve other jurisdictions. He wanted a speedy trial and 25 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 1: a quick execution. But somewhere down the line he changed 26 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: his mind about wanting to receive the death penalty. So 27 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: I wondered what happened there and if he might now 28 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: be open to talking about additional crimes. I asked Vaughn's lawyer, 29 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: Guiko Kosach, to walk me through Von's trial and why 30 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: Vaughan had changed his mind. At the very beginning, he 31 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: just wanted to plead guilty before he even met his lawyer, 32 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: and he wanted the death penalty, and of course they 33 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: wouldn't allow that, so he was not very cooperative. The 34 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,079 Speaker 1: way we do things in Lake County is if you're 35 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: ever appointed public defender to a human being, you are 36 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: married to that human being for the rest of your 37 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: natural lives. So Darren had had a previous felony early eighties, 38 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: something like that. I can't remember the exact date. And 39 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: uh he had been appointed to a certain public defender 40 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 1: who he was very happy with because he got the 41 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: case this Mr resolved quite favorably. So now when Darren 42 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: comes back on this, they appoint the guy who replaced 43 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: that public defender, Matt Fetch, to represent Darren. Now, in Indiana, 44 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: we have a criminal rule especially deals with death penalties, 45 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: and for you to be a first chair in a 46 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: death penalty case, you have to have been involved in 47 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: a previous death penalty case. So the powers that be 48 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: decided to appoint a first chair, qualified death penalty lawyer, TERSA. 49 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: Hollins Worth to start out. In his first appearance in court, 50 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 1: Vaughn refused to answer questions and he was warned that 51 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: he could be held in contempt of court. At his 52 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: next hearing, he complied with the judge and a preliminary 53 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: non guilty plea was entered on his behalf. But a 54 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,399 Speaker 1: month later, Von didn't want to come into court at all. 55 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: They ended up stripping him down naked and putting him 56 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: in a restraint chair and they put some kind of 57 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: vest on him, wheeled him in the court and Teresa 58 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: just went absolutely ape shit, and Judge Boswell agreed that 59 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: you know, you're not going to have court with him 60 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: naked with that restraint vest, so they ended up taking 61 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: him back to the jail. After that incident, Vaughan ended 62 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: up bonding with Teresa Hollandsworth, but he still wanted the 63 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: death penalty and he still didn't want to participate in court. 64 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: At the next hearing, Vaughn communicated through Teresa, whispering into 65 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: her ear. She announced that Vaughn was waving his right 66 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: to appear at all future court proceedings unless the court 67 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: required him to appear. The prosecution worried that this could 68 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: open them up to an appeal down the line, but 69 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: the judge ruled that it was Vaughan's right to not 70 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: appear in court. So things were kind of rolling along 71 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: and they were doing their things for a good year 72 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: or so, and Teresa got a job opportunity to work 73 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: in the juvenile court for more money, so she took 74 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: that position. Nobody can blame her, so at that time 75 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: they had to replace Teresa. We don't have a lot 76 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: of people anymore in the unequalified and death been with 77 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: cases because they're just not filing them anymore. At used 78 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,359 Speaker 1: to file thirty fifty a year. Now if it's for 79 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: they're lucky. So um, Teresa referred me and the powers 80 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: that be agreed and I got involved in the case. 81 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,679 Speaker 1: And the proverbial should hit the fan right from the beginning, 82 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 1: because Darren had established quite a close relationship with Teresa. Uh, 83 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: let's just say she was his perfect type and he 84 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: really liked her. Throughout his life, women have abandoned him 85 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: his mother wife, and when she left, here's it another time, 86 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: or a woman that he had some trust in he 87 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: felt abandoned him. So I was locked out. He wouldn't 88 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: even talk, and he wanted to go pro se, which 89 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: means represent himself. So I kept banging my head against 90 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: the door. I kept sending him letters. I kept going 91 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: up to see him. He would refuse to see me, 92 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:27,359 Speaker 1: but I told him in my letters, I'm gonna come 93 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: to see you every week. I'm proven to you that 94 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: I'm in this for the long haul. And at some 95 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: point he just indicated, well, I just need thirty more 96 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 1: days to myself, and then he says, okay, come see me, 97 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: and uh we kissed and made up, and uh, I 98 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: think developed a pretty good relationship and I would have 99 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: deep conversations with Darren. I would meet with Darren almost 100 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: every week at least for a couple of hours because 101 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: he needed the time with human beings. So newspapers, you know, 102 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: would often go ahead and make fun of this being 103 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 1: the Gyko costage for a one K plan, that I 104 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: was just going over there needlessly to go ahead and 105 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: pad my bill. But with death penalty cases, you you 106 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: have to earn trust, and part of that is going 107 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: over there. But you know, we would talk about things, 108 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,160 Speaker 1: and one of those things would be this plan of his. 109 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:22,919 Speaker 1: And uh, from the very beginning, Darren wanted the death penalty. 110 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: He did not want to go back to prison. He 111 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: had done prison time in Texas for a sexual assault 112 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: case and he did not want to go back to prison. 113 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: So he says, hey, if I give you six more bodies, 114 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: can you promise me you're gonna kill me? And he 115 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: says they said yeah. They say no, we were never 116 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: promising that, you know, And at some point then Darren 117 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 1: eventually decides he doesn't with the death penalty or what 118 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: happened with that. There's not easy answer to your question, Ben, 119 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 1: I mean, it's from the very beginnings, and one death 120 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: and want death. I want death. And then all of 121 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 1: a sudden, about three days four days before we cut 122 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: the a, he changed his mind. There's probably several things 123 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: that played a factor in it. Cossage says that he 124 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: wanted Von to take a plea deal, and the first 125 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: thing that really helped was getting Bond to see his 126 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: stepsister Regina and half brother Reginald. And after that his 127 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: attitude changed. Someone We kept telling Darren, Darren, you know, 128 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: you go to trial, you got you get convicted. They 129 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: might not whack you for eighteen years with LWOP life 130 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: without parole, he would be in the general population with 131 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: death penalty. He's in a cage twenty three hours of day. 132 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: The key then after that was Keisha. We had a 133 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: fabulous and she still works with those. Keisha Evans I 134 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: grew up in the Etna section of Gary and that 135 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: she lives there now, so that's kind of my et noboddy. 136 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: But Keisha's black. She's like a sister to him, and 137 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: they just hit it off. Cossage says that they're close 138 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: to making a breakthrough it Von and getting him to 139 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: consider a plea deal that would avoid the death penalty. 140 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: When Keisha asked to speak to Van one on one. 141 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: Keisha went in there. Actually we all went in there. 142 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: Keisha threw us out. Keisha talk to him for about 143 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: forty minutes. She came out crying. We went back in. 144 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: He was crying, and at that point in time, he 145 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: agreed to take the police to life without for all. 146 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: You get to this point, and you've got to get 147 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: it done in the the next couple of days because when 148 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: they're starting to think about it, you've gotta keep hammering 149 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: and keep hammering and keep hammering and get it done, 150 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: because if you give them too much time to think 151 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: about it, they'll change their minds. So again, this is 152 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: an ongoing process that we're going on for years and years, 153 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden the last few days, boom, 154 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: everything came together. On May fourth, almost four years after 155 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: his arrest, Von pled guilty to seven murders, the murders 156 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: of Africa Hardy and the six victims he led police 157 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: to on the death March weeks later, Von was given 158 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: seven life sentences, one for each victim. Marvin Clinton was 159 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: the only person to make a victim impact statement. He 160 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: read the names of the victims out loud. Africa Hardy, 161 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: nineteen of Chicago, Anne Jones of Maryville, Tracy Martin forty 162 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: one of Gary, Christine Williams thirty six of Gary, Sonia 163 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: Billingsley fifty two of Gary, Tanya Gatlin of Highland, and 164 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: Tierra Baty of Gary. Clinton said that Vaughan didn't have 165 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: a heart or a soul, that he had anger for Vaughan, 166 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: but that Tierra wouldn't want him to hold on to 167 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: that anger. But Vaughan never heard what Clinton said because 168 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: he'd opted not to show up to his own sentencing 169 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: and the court allowed it. Clinton also said that while 170 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: he knew the defense counsel had a job to do, 171 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,079 Speaker 1: he was frustrated with all of the time and money 172 00:09:56,120 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: being spent assisting Vaughan. Cossage expressed him that they to 173 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,839 Speaker 1: all of the families in the courtroom and apologized. I 174 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: was curious why Cossage in Lake County has spent so 175 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: much time and effort to convince von that he didn't 176 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: want the death penalty. Are you philosophically opposed to the 177 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: death penalty or what motivates you to go to to 178 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 1: all these lengths for your client? You know I waver 179 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: back and forth. You know I was very much o 180 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: death penalty before. Now I cannot say that I'm against 181 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: the death penalty in every single case, but you know, 182 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: dollars are dollars, and you do the calculation that it 183 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: probably costs ten times more money to execute someone in 184 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: the given life without parole. You know, the delay that 185 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,559 Speaker 1: was one of the selling points I think to Darren. Ultimately, 186 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: is Darren, if they ordered the death penalty today, you're 187 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,839 Speaker 1: gonna be sixty two years old before you get executed. 188 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: So you know, aren't you better off living eighteen years 189 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: or whatever in g POP and die a natural death 190 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: out of general population and sitting in a cage for 191 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: eighteen years with a cat because I let him have 192 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: cats on death row. It's one of the person death row. Um. 193 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: We've been talking forever, and I probably would just keep 194 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 1: talking forever. Um, I need to run to the bathroom 195 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: really quick. If you don't mine, that's funny because I 196 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: ran with my laptops. You did it while you were 197 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: talking to me. No, you didn't have me on camera. Ultimately, 198 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: I'm glad that Von decided to take the plea because 199 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 1: I hope now that he's accepted his fate of life 200 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: without parole I hope that there's a chance that he 201 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: might confess to more murders. And after looking into the 202 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 1: scarce information that there is out there about many of 203 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: the murderers that her GROW's algorithm identified, I think it 204 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: can feeshion from Vaughan might be one of the only 205 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: ways that we can figure out some of these old 206 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 1: cold cases. Do you have any advice to me. I 207 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: don't know if the system in Indiana very well. If 208 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 1: I wanted to reach out to Darren Vaughan and try 209 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:17,839 Speaker 1: to talk to him directly, Um, he's not gonna talk 210 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: to you, okay. Um he has to put you on 211 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: his list of people who correspond with He won't do that. 212 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: A b uh. During the time that I represented him, 213 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: he got many many letters from women, the gallows brides 214 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 1: that are out there. He got letters from this husband 215 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,439 Speaker 1: and wife couple that claimed that they do interviews with 216 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: serial killers and they wanted to talk to him. He 217 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: had no real interest in being involved with any of that. 218 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: He didn't want any more notorieting, and he already had 219 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: and I don't think he's changed he will ever change 220 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,319 Speaker 1: in that regard. Do you know if he heard about 221 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: the whole Hardgrove story. Yeah, I talked him about Yeah, 222 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: he laughed. Are you able to talk to him? Are 223 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 1: you able to reach out to him at this point? 224 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: Or is he no? We stay we stay in touch. 225 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess if you would just mention that 226 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: there's this guy out there doing this thing and um, 227 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: you know, just that I'd love to talk to him. 228 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: Despite costage his insistence that Vaughan wouldn't speak to me, 229 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: I wrote him a letter anyways. I told him that 230 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: I'd listened through his interrogations and read articles about him, 231 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: but most of the articles hadn't mentioned his traumatic childhood 232 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: or the abuse that he'd suffered at the film of 233 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: Marshall Children's Home. I didn't ask him specifically about the 234 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: cold cases or previous murders. I just wanted to get 235 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 1: him on the phone and see what happened. And honestly, 236 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: I almost forgot I sent it until a few months later. 237 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,559 Speaker 1: I went to my overflowing mailbox and I found an 238 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:55,839 Speaker 1: envelope from the Indiana Department of Corrections. Just checked my mail. 239 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: I was looking for a wedding invitation and instead I 240 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: found a piece of mail from Darren Vonn and uh, yeah, 241 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 1: open this up. Never gotten a piece of mail from 242 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: a serial killer before U It's handwritten well, so he 243 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: says to ben Keybrick, Date time seven eighteen pm, I, 244 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: Darren Devon would like to offer you a deal. You 245 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: would have to contact my lawyer to work out an 246 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: arrangement where he would have to agree beforehand. You would 247 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: have to write a report of the corruption that's ongoing 248 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: at the Wabash Valley Correctional Facility, from guards beating on 249 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: inmates of rassin bullysh it, from fed founds, from shower 250 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: not having hot water, from playing with legal mail, from 251 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: filing false report, from threatening inmates with physical violence, to 252 00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: reckless behavior that but inmate life danger or I also 253 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: believe that they're a law against family and friend work 254 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: at the same time, and you that to stop we're 255 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: cover up for ceo s and counselor that are doing wrong. 256 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: For appointment to be set up, must contact my lawyer, 257 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: Goko Cassach at two one nine. All right, Well, I'm 258 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: not sure what to make of a lot of that, 259 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: but maybe we'll be talking to Darren Vaughan. I reached 260 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: back out to Cossage to see about setting up the 261 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: interview Cossage was less than enthusiastic about getting involved. He 262 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: said he was busy working on a murder trial and said, quote, 263 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: I'm really not excited about driving to his correctional facility 264 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: to meet him. He told me to talk to the 265 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: Department of Corrections and try to set it up with them, 266 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: and I was less than enthusiastic about that, since Vaughn 267 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: wanted to talk about allegations of corruption at the prison. 268 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: But I emailed the chief communications officer at the Department 269 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: of Corrections in Indiana. She told me, quote, in order 270 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: to get the process started, I will need you to 271 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: submit the topic of your story slash project and the 272 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: list of questions you plan to ask the offender. I 273 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: sent her a fairly generic list of biographical questions. I 274 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: didn't feel comfortable putting anything on the list about the 275 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: cold cases because I figured Cossage might object, and I 276 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: was also afraid that if I put any questions about 277 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: prison conditions in there, the Department of Corrections might shut 278 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: down the interview. I tried to hedge things and leave 279 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: open the possibility to ask other questions by writing underneath 280 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: my list, do you need a list of all the 281 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: questions I would ask or just a representative list of questions. 282 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: The officer emailed back and told me my list should suffice. 283 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: The very next day, she sent another short email. It 284 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: read quote, facility staff checked with the offender, Darren Vaughan, 285 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: and he declined to be interviewed. I were responded. I 286 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: appreciate you checking with him. I wonder if there's some 287 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: sort of miscommunication, because I already have a letter from 288 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: him where he's agreed to be interviewed. I'm c seeing 289 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: his lawyer, Guiko Cossage. Is there a way you could 290 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 1: ask him again and say I was the journalist who 291 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 1: sent him the letter? She wrote back. Since he has 292 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,199 Speaker 1: declined the interview, we will respect his decision and not 293 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: ask him again. You're welcome to write him a letter 294 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: where if you're on his contact list, use email or 295 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: phone to further communicate with him. I was frustrated months 296 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: had passed between when I had originally sent Vaughn the 297 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: letter and when I had finally heard back from him, 298 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 1: and especially since he had complained about corruption in the prison, 299 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: I worried that the Department of Corrections might not handle 300 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: my request properly. I wrote back to Darren Vaughan asking 301 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 1: him to add me to his email and phone contact list, 302 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 1: but I've yet to hear back. I'll definitely let you 303 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: know if I do, but I'm unsure of how much 304 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 1: we can trust fund anyway. Is we'd really need an 305 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: airtight confession to take it seriously. We're some sort of 306 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: other evidence to verify what he said, because he lied 307 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 1: and changed his stories throughout the interrogation and towards the end, 308 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: claimed that strangling women and leaving them in abandoned buildings 309 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: was new for him. Disc is a new thing. It's 310 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 1: some more my anger tour, like I gonna lock up 311 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:24,120 Speaker 1: for profits to drop. He claimed that these murders were 312 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: due to his anger at getting locked up in Texas, 313 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: but I think his pattern of behavior says otherwise, and 314 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: I want to explore that a little bit. I don't 315 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: think he was seeking revenge on the women of Gary 316 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 1: because of the Texas sex worker who got him arrested. 317 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: I think his murders were displaced aggression towards someone else. 318 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,439 Speaker 1: And I'm not the only one who thinks. So let 319 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 1: me go ahead and consent to your record. But there's 320 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 1: anything that I'm not comfortable but being recorded. The house, 321 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: saying that it's off the record. A woman from Gary 322 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: contacted me telling me she had met Von sometime in 323 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 1: the middle of his killing spree, that he was a 324 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: serial killer. A woman from Gary contacted me telling me 325 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: she had met Vaughan sometime in the middle of his 326 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: killing spree. She wanted to speak anonymously and asked me 327 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: to disguise her voice. The color said she met Vaughan 328 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: through her cousin who struggled with addiction. She was telling 329 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,479 Speaker 1: me about this guy because quite often I would have 330 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: to be the one to rescue her from the drug house. 331 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: So she used to tell me about the guys that's 332 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: coming in or whatever. But on this particular to day, 333 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: I was there able to transaction and the guy that 334 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 1: she had been telling me a few stories about he 335 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: came in, which happened to be Garon. She was telling 336 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: me about his rules. So this is his rules. Once 337 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,479 Speaker 1: he got high, he would started taking out all his money, 338 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:07,640 Speaker 1: so all the girls that would be in the house 339 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: would see his money. And you know, when they see 340 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: the money, they're trying to leave with you, especially if 341 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: they know you get high, they think you discombobulated. And 342 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 1: he played real stupid, But she was telling me that 343 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,679 Speaker 1: one day she tried to get some money out of 344 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: his pocket and he sobered up so quick. She knew 345 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 1: he was playing the game right. So another girl left 346 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: with him. This is what a long term. It was 347 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: one girl that she hustled with, who would not have 348 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: gone off without telling her she wasn't coming back or 349 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 1: what happened. You know, there was good like that. The 350 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: girl left with Darren did not come back. The color 351 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 1: said that her cousin's friend was never seen again. They 352 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: were a team. There was no way she's not coming back, 353 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,360 Speaker 1: and she knew that Darren had done something to turn her. 354 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: Four months later, another girl left with him and she 355 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: didn't come back either. That's when we knew that he 356 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 1: was a serial killer. Do you remember what either of 357 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: these girls names were or like what they went by? Uh? 358 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: It was two of them that they found in the 359 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 1: band and building close to the forty third property that 360 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: was closest to forty third Avenue. Four of the victims 361 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 1: were found on forty third Avenue. We're just off of 362 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: forty three, and I knew from police interrogations that there 363 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: was a drug house on forty three that some of 364 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: the victims would frequent was the drug house? Was that 365 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 1: like the corner of Massachusetts And yeah, yeah, yeah. There 366 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 1: were a lot of parts of this story that were 367 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: hard to verify, but this part seemed to check out. Now, 368 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 1: this is why this man probably went back on to 369 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,719 Speaker 1: check it, or the lawn didn't go out on an 370 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: average every day Monday through Friday. This is the normal dude. 371 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,040 Speaker 1: He's a peculiar dude, but he's a he's just a 372 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: normal man in his own business kind of die when 373 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: he get his paycheck. Is drugs are us? And then 374 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: Nika taps in it with Satan at that point, what 375 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 1: do you mean when you say that? Okay, this is 376 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: what I mean. You know some people that do drugs, 377 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: they turned into a whole another person as soon as 378 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: those drugs hip like it's jackal and hide. You understand 379 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 1: what I'm saying. And if you already had a proclivity 380 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: towards the violent sex sado masochism, so he was already 381 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: known for being procurliar. He likes to get high, beat 382 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 1: and rape his girls, but he played the game so 383 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: that they would think he wasn't alert. Did you see 384 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: what I'm saying? I heard some people like they interviewed 385 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: his son in law and that dude said he was 386 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,160 Speaker 1: really creepy. That you would see him kind of like 387 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 1: talking to himself, or he would like look like he 388 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: was deep in thought. Was that stuff that you ever 389 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: saw around him? I wasn't close enough to observed him 390 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: that way. He stayed two streets behind us. We would 391 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: see him at the forty ninth gas station and he 392 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: would say something like, what's up. You know what I'm saying. 393 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: He'd get out the car just as cool as anybody else, 394 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 1: what's up, what's up? His hands were clean, his clothes 395 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: were clean, he smelled clean. But when he got on drugs, 396 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: he tapped into satan. The day that he came over 397 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: to the house, and she pointed out to me that 398 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: this is the guy who she was talking about. My 399 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: observation of him was watching what she told me he did. 400 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: So that's what I paid attention to. I watched him 401 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: get high, I watched him take out his money. I 402 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,199 Speaker 1: watched him try to play like he was out of 403 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: his mind off the drugs and started inviting people to 404 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 1: ride to the liquor store with him. Yeah, so that 405 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: day that you were there, didn't even take him up 406 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: on it. I didn't. I didn't stick around for you 407 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,439 Speaker 1: know how you look at somebody, you already know that 408 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 1: it's something you guys discussed. It is going down, and 409 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: y'all get a look. Yeah, you guys gave each other 410 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: the look. And she's like, I was telling you right, 411 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: right exactly. The color said that her and her cousin's 412 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,880 Speaker 1: suspicions about Darren were confirmed after a woman named Ebony 413 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: left the Drughouse with Darren. It was a chick named Ebony, 414 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 1: and she was mixed. She was mexicanan black. She was 415 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: the hottest ticket. So Ebony see his bank roll one 416 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,400 Speaker 1: day and my cousin told, how don't go with him 417 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: because such and such stuff up for him. And she 418 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: didn't come back. So she tell her don't go, but 419 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: she goes anyway. When they see Ebony is maybe a 420 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,919 Speaker 1: week or two later, she got cut, scratches everything, She 421 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: showed all the bruises she had. Hey, yeah, he was 422 00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:01,439 Speaker 1: a statistic, brutal motherfucker. Ebany, you let me explain something 423 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: that she said. This is something that I do feel 424 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: like you should know. She says that his strength was extraordinary. 425 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: He handled hut with one hand, like he could like 426 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: pick her up by the neck with one hand or 427 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: something like that. Yes, he would shut her up in 428 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: the window and have her watching out the window. He 429 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: was telling her to look at all the people out 430 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: there living Dade life. I bet that you wish that 431 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: you was at home right now. You should have been 432 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: at home with your children. His mom had to be 433 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: a prostitute. I don't know anything about his mom because 434 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: I don't know him like that, but his mom had 435 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: to be everything about what he went out and killed. 436 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: He had to have the spies time what a person 437 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: on drugs will do as far as the property for 438 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: their children, the situations, they'll leave them me in to 439 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: go and get some drugs. You'll leave them with other 440 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: drug addings. And if ain't nobody around but the key, 441 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: what you think they're gonna do? And he killing these 442 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 1: prostitutes because he knows the kid is going through the 443 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: same thing he went through. Yeah, I don't know, No, 444 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: that's what he He know the ancoul then he went 445 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: through with his mom. He know that's what the kids 446 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,880 Speaker 1: is going through. So why is he not gonna kill 447 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 1: you when you know what you're drawing to your children, 448 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 1: you probably left him somebody to be out getting drugs 449 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: or whatever. And I'm sure this is what he was 450 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: saying to them before shade that you don't think that 451 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 1: he had a conversation with them. To be very clear, 452 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:38,199 Speaker 1: the color is speculating here, but the colors intuition is 453 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: correct about his mother. She was a drug addict and 454 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 1: a sex worker herself, at least in her younger years. 455 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: And it's also true that Van hated his mother. That 456 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: was something that came up again and again and police documents, 457 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:57,199 Speaker 1: interrogations and interviews. His stepsister told police that if she 458 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: were to have imagined him killing anyone, it would have 459 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: been his mother. UNS Lawyer Cossa mentioned this as well, 460 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: how sometimes defense lawyers used a client's mother to humanize them. 461 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: One guy had nothing going for him, absolutely nothing, and 462 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 1: he put his mom on the standard mitigation and she 463 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 1: fainted and he jumped over the table and ran to 464 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: her and hugged her and was crying, Mama, are you okay? Mama, 465 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: are you okay? And the jury decided that was a 466 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 1: redeeming factor, and based upon that, they spared his life. 467 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: And we thought, gee, wouldn't it be great? And then 468 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 1: we paused and said, well, if Darren's mom fainted during trial, 469 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: Darren would probably jump over the table and try to 470 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: help her pass on to the next world. So it's 471 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: kind of a little running joke that we had that 472 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: we couldn't even use. That he didn't like his mom, No, 473 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: he did not. That goes all the way back to 474 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 1: the abandonment of women in his life, which caused him 475 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: to have such a difficult time with all of these women, 476 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,640 Speaker 1: except for his wife, who basically was his mother because 477 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,919 Speaker 1: she was that much older and she treated him kindly, 478 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 1: so she was kind of like the mom he never had. 479 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 1: Although Von made a little mention of his mother during 480 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 1: the interrogation, it seemed important to him to repeatedly make 481 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 1: the point that he only killed adults, never children, and 482 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: he said that he regretted killing Africa because she was 483 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: so young. She feel sorry for his however, really because 484 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: he was an age friend about you that just too 485 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: young to me, so to you her a kid almost 486 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 1: here because he had a chance to be was said 487 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: in any way, she had a chance to be unil 488 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: the color story about Von targeting women who reminded him 489 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: of his mother supported my own suspicions, And I want 490 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: to be clear that I'm not trying to cast blame 491 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: on Von's mother or imply that his crimes are somehow 492 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 1: her fault. But I think Von's rage and hatred of 493 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: women go back much further than his Austin arrest or 494 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: even the incident with Sharifa, and I suspect his murders 495 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: do as well. But I wanted to see if I 496 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,959 Speaker 1: could talk to Ebony or someone else to verify the story. 497 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: What about Ebony? Do you know how to get in 498 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: contact with her? No, this is years ago. She wouldn't 499 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 1: have been in my running circle. No way. I just 500 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: called her hanging out with my cousin and got the 501 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: story from her. Yeah. See, I had custody of my 502 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: cousin's son for his senior year so that he could 503 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: complete school and everything. M So he used to walk 504 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 1: home with a group of friends, and you know, would 505 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: have to act like that wasn't his mother standing on 506 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: the corner forty third and Broadway. M walk home with 507 00:29:55,120 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: a group of friends and walk past his mother. Yeah yeah, 508 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: and she has since been murdered in Indianapolish. Yeah right, 509 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, this ship gets real out here, 510 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 1: you'd be doing drugs with them folks. They they get 511 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: in your house and hit them drugs and realizes that 512 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: they don't want to split no drugs with you. Shit, 513 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: he's spokes to turn into the absolute ex They had 514 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: spent around and they'd be spending green ship the next 515 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: time you see him. See when the Avenue is telling this, like, 516 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: did ever know that story? Like all the people hanging 517 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: out in these places? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes 518 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: see it got to a point where he couldn't get 519 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: anybody from forty three anymore. This is why is that 520 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: started calling on Craiglist mm hmmm, because the cat was 521 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: out of the bag. I am curious. Did you ever 522 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: go to the police or talk to someone like that 523 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 1: about it? This is why I brought that up to you. 524 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: They had a sanitation meeting at City Hall and I 525 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: told them, you guys have a serial killer. Now this 526 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: meeting is recorded. If I say all open TV something 527 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: that obserd, don't you think the police should come to me? Like? 528 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 1: Why did you say that? What would make you say 529 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: that to the police? Never came to you? No, Never. 530 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: Look at how many people are missing, look at how 531 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 1: many victims there are before the serial killers are called, 532 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: and look at how they get caught. They don't get 533 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: caught by investigations. They get caught once they can't control themselves. 534 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 1: He only got caught because he couldn't help himself. He 535 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: publicly killed his first victim in a public hotel. That's 536 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: the only reason why they called you. There's still some 537 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 1: old women missing. They didn't tell you that though different. 538 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: There's still some more women missing that they've never located him. 539 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: They got a serial killer running around right now, they posted. 540 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: Next week is the final episode in this season of Algorithm. 541 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 1: We'll look into what I think is the most likely 542 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: way we can connect Darren von to additional crimes, and 543 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: we'll also talk about the future of the Algorithm and 544 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 1: how algorithms might help catch serial killers across the country. 545 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 1: If you haven't yet subscribed to the feed, you're not 546 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: gonna want to miss this one. This episode was written 547 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: and produced by me ben Key Brick. Algorithm is executive 548 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: produced by Alex Williams, Donald Albright, and Matt Frederick. Production 549 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 1: assistance in mixing by Eric Quintana. The music is by 550 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: Makeup and Vanity Set and Blue Dot Sessions. Thanks to 551 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 1: Christina Dana, Miranda Hawkins, Jamie Albright, Rima l Kali, Trevor Young, 552 00:32:55,880 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: and Josh Thane for their help and notes. For more 553 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 1: podcast from My Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, 554 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.