1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: Quody bats. But Joseph's gotten more travel recommendation. If you 2 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:12,959 Speaker 1: have never seen the Cascades, get it on your list. 3 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 1: You gotta go. You just you have to go. The 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:20,240 Speaker 1: Rockies are fine, but there's something about being in the 5 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 1: midst of the Cascade range. You don't have to be 6 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: in the midst of it. You can be miles and 7 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: miles and miles and miles away from it and still 8 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 1: kind of be in it. You can see them from 9 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: such a great distance away. I remember the first time 10 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: that I flew into Seattle and past I guess it's 11 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: that mount hood, I think, coming in over this thing, 12 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: and I'd never seen anything like in my life. It's amazing. 13 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: And essentially they are snowcapped, dormant and volcanoes, but it's 14 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: all the little hills that surround it as well, and 15 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: those full, lush evergreen forest that go on like a 16 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:10,680 Speaker 1: carpet forever off into the distance. It is certainly a 17 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: beautiful place, and it has a particular smell about it. 18 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: When you're there underneath that canopy of evergreens, sometimes you 19 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: can almost catch a hint of Christmas. Even in the summertime. 20 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: It's the pine seceedars But today I want to talk 21 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: about something that has come to my attention in the 22 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: last three days across my desk, actually the last two days, 23 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: and it's case that people have been talking about for 24 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: a while, but there was really nothing there that I 25 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: could hold forth on from a forensics perspective. Now there is. 26 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: I'm talking about the murders of three precious little angels, 27 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: the Decker Sisters. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is 28 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: body Bags, David. I think the thing that so amazes 29 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: me about the Cascades, and I know that geography nerds 30 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:18,839 Speaker 1: out there and probably people that live adjacent to them, 31 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,239 Speaker 1: that are friends of ours out there, they're going to 32 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: nail me on this, But the idea that they run 33 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: for such a long distance, you know, kind of up 34 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: the spine on the west coast, if you will, And 35 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: a lot of people use the Cascade Range to escape. 36 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: They escape for a number of reasons. You know, we 37 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: got to uh, well several, not just too We've got 38 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: major metropolitan centers along there. You know, people you know, 39 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: trying to earn a buck, they get away, they head 40 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: head east, head towards the Cascades and go camping. And 41 00:02:54,360 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: our subject today relative to the Decker sisters were volves 42 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 1: around their little family and dad who was known to 43 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: camp camp with some frequency. And this is up up 44 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: in Washington State, up toward the north in the Cascade Range. 45 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: And Travis went off into the forest and never came 46 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: back out alive. 47 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 2: Well, all right, Travis Decker, first of all, he's a 48 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 2: thirty two year old guy who was in the military 49 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 2: for an extended period of time. Kind of look at 50 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 2: this and think was he really planning on making a 51 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 2: life career out of the military, Because he was in 52 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 2: it for longer than the first hitch that you do 53 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 2: coming out of like high school or college when you 54 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 2: don't know what you're going to do. He was in 55 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 2: longer than that. He was in it for ten twelve 56 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 2: years and then transfers over the National Guard. But he's 57 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 2: got these girls, who's got an ex wife, and he 58 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 2: has yet defined solid footing for himself. I don't know 59 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 2: about it way to say it. As he and his 60 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 2: wife ex wife dealt with custodial issues over the girls. 61 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 2: She said, it's one thing to go camping as an outing. 62 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 2: It's another if when you get the girls for a weekend, 63 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 2: you're pitching a tent in the woods because you're homeless, 64 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 2: and I think that is a legitimate question that has 65 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 2: to be answered. That is not the environment that many 66 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 2: of us would consider safe. And that was something that 67 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 2: had happened as this was going on. So Travis, he 68 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 2: was homeless, he did camp in the woods. He didn't 69 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 2: do it because he was an outdoorsy guy. He did 70 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 2: it because he had a truck, and that was it. 71 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 2: So when he would get the girls, he would maybe 72 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 2: sometimes stay in a hotel, sometimes not. And it got 73 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 2: to the point where he did not get the kind 74 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,359 Speaker 2: of visitation that he wanted and it had kind of 75 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 2: evolved into that. So when he comes to pick the 76 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 2: girls up May thirtieth, was a planned visitation and I 77 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:09,479 Speaker 2: don't know, you know, we don't know all the zenos. 78 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 2: We don't know everything that happened. We only know what 79 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 2: cards he showed. And he did pick up the girls 80 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: for a planned visitation. They were supposed to go to 81 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 2: watch to appeer to five k run. You know a 82 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 2: lot of times they'll have a five k run in 83 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 2: your community and it's a whole day event where you know, 84 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 2: you have cookouts and things like that, and lots of 85 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 2: activities and so that's what they were going to do, 86 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 2: a nice family fun time. But they never showed up there. 87 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 2: And when Travis Decker did not show up with the 88 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 2: girls we're talking about Peyton Decker is nine, Evelyn is eight, 89 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 2: and Olivia is five. These are some very active ages. 90 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 2: A five year old can keep you busy, yeah, a 91 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 2: five year old, an eight year old and a nine 92 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 2: year old can make you shave your head because of 93 00:05:59,920 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 2: the bald patches you're pulling out. So he has, he 94 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 2: has all three of these girls, and he doesn't bring 95 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 2: them back when he was supposed to as this had 96 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 2: been an ongoing issue. His ex wife did not tolerate it. 97 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 2: She was on the phone with police fairly quickly. They 98 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 2: did not come back. So it wasn't where he was 99 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 2: supposed to have them for a week and they waited 100 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,679 Speaker 2: ten days. Okay, it wasn't like that. Joe. He picks 101 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 2: them up, made the thirtieth within forty eight hours. There's 102 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 2: an all points bulletin. We don't know where he is, 103 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 2: we don't know where the girls are. Have you seen 104 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 2: this man? Have you seen these girls? All over the 105 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 2: Pacific Northwest? So that's kind of the setting that we 106 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 2: start with. In this case, they did find a campsite 107 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 2: where Travis Decker took his girls. I've seen pictures of 108 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 2: his campsite, Joe and full disclosure, Joe was talking to 109 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 2: me about this last night because you've done some appearances 110 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 2: on networks that you've delved into this and you have 111 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 2: some information about what took place. The pictures showed it 112 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:16,559 Speaker 2: fairly lived in camping area. It wasn't just a place 113 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 2: he pitched a tent overnight with the girls. He'd been 114 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 2: living in this area for a good long while. There 115 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 2: were signs of trash and things like that that you 116 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 2: don't accumulate in a twenty four hour period of time, 117 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:34,679 Speaker 2: but over weeks. So they've tracked him to this area 118 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 2: that he was camping with the girls is homeless shelter 119 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 2: if you want to call it that, and they found 120 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 2: bags in like I use Dollar General as an example 121 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 2: because if you live in the South, I guess it's 122 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 2: a Southern town. I don't know, but we got a 123 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 2: Dollar General every quarter mile. I think you have to 124 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 2: have one. Is the law next to the Alexander Shannara 125 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 2: lawyer signs you know, call me Ala e H So. 126 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: There's even a postseason college football bowl named the Dollar General. 127 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 2: I love it. And so we have these Dollar General bags. 128 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 2: They're just general use. And they found bags like that 129 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 2: all over this campsite, a lot of them, and twist 130 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 2: ties and other things that just didn't seem to have 131 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 2: a lot of value in a camping area. And if 132 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 2: you were camping, now, if you're living, it's a different 133 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 2: manner altogether. You know, when you're camping, you take stuff 134 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 2: in you you have a bundle, you have a backpack, 135 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 2: you have a bedroll, and you keep these things organized 136 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 2: because you're going to take them back home. When you're 137 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 2: living in the woods, not so much. It's a much 138 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 2: different environment. And that's what this setting was. So when 139 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 2: they come looking for the Girls show, or trying to 140 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 2: find Travis Decker, they had no idea what they were 141 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 2: going to find. They did not think the girls were 142 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 2: in danger of life and death. They thought that they 143 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 2: were in you know, with a dad who had come 144 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 2: a bit unhinged. 145 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: Maybe yeah, he you know, my understanding, Dave is that 146 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 1: it had gotten so precarious. I think with his living situation, 147 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: it's like every other weekend he got them for eight 148 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: hours unsupervised, and then I think he could come by 149 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 1: the house and see them at specific times, you know, 150 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: attle bit. You know, they had to remain at the house. 151 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: You know, where else are you going to go? I mean, 152 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: I guess you could go out to the park and look, man, 153 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: you know, different circumstances happen. We've got homeless vets all 154 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: over this country, sad that are, yeah, very sadly, that 155 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:53,199 Speaker 1: are suffering from all manner of maladies. Much of it 156 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: goes right to the feet of the VA where you know, 157 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: they don't take care of our troops. They're discarded and 158 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: they don't get them the help they should. But you know, 159 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,079 Speaker 1: it's two way street too. I know, I've got good 160 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: friends that have issues that came up, you know, during 161 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: the you know, the war footing that we were on, 162 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: and we're you know, in that situation for a long time. 163 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: They paid price for it, but you know, their effort 164 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: to get help hinge hinged heartily upon the amount of 165 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: pressure that they were applying and being present for, you know, 166 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: all the meetings and you know, getting your meds and 167 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: all this stuff. And look, from what I understand, Travis 168 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: Decker did have medication that he was supposed to be 169 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: on for the psychopathology that he has been diagnosed with, 170 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: which I think from an overarching standpoint of the diagnosis 171 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: is actually PTSD and PTSD can manifest itself in a 172 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: variety of different ways. But there were some underlying things 173 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: too that had developed, and reports are that he would 174 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 1: not take these medications that he had been given. But 175 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: you know, and that's on him. He has to take 176 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: those meds if he's seeking the treatment, you know, if 177 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: you want to go get other treatment outside the VA 178 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: find but you've got to do something to help yourself 179 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: or you're not going to be in a position where 180 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: you can be a daddy, which you know, to me 181 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: is the most esteemed position in the world. I don't 182 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: care what it is, you know, I you know, I 183 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: wouldn't trade anything for being a daddy. 184 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 2: So Travis Decker takes off and doesn't come back with 185 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 2: the girls Joe, and they find his campsite fairly quickly, 186 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 2: didn't take long. Three days in June, actually really two 187 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 2: days of looking in on June the second they found 188 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 2: his campsite, and what they found was beyond anything anybody 189 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 2: thought they were going to find. Worst case scenario showed 190 00:11:58,120 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 2: up in their face. 191 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: It did. And this is the way that that I 192 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 1: would envision this when you are a law enforcement officer 193 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 1: and you show up at a remote location like this. 194 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:19,559 Speaker 1: The things that they saw upon their arrival and their 195 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: discovery there, it wasn't just evidence that Travis Decker had 196 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: endwelled that location. It looked as though Satan itself had 197 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 1: paid a business. Where Where That's the biggest question when 198 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: you've got missing children, Where are they? Where are they? We? 199 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 1: You want to you want to see them, You want 200 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 1: to be able to examine them. You want to be 201 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:07,559 Speaker 1: able to know that they're okay. I've talked about this before, 202 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,679 Speaker 1: Dave and some of our previous conversations about one of 203 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: the responses I get from families when they're notified of death. 204 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: Contrary to what people think, they don't ask what happened. 205 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 1: Most of the time, most of the people that particularly 206 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: their intimates, the first question out of their mouth is 207 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: where are they? Where are they? Even though you've told 208 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 1: them that they're deceased, most people cannot accept the fact 209 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: that someone is deceased. Their brain goes to this idea 210 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: of where, because where gives them an indication of the 211 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: location they need to go to in order to verify 212 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: it for themselves. There's part of us in our core 213 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: that are all all from Missouri. You got to show me, Oh, 214 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 1: you've got to show me. You've got to show me. 215 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: You have to demonstrate to me because you've never known 216 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: most people have never known life without those that they love, 217 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: and then when it happens, they want to be able 218 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: to verify, verify it with their eyes. And so therefore, 219 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: you know, what happened is kind of down the list 220 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: from that because they're not believe Even if you tell 221 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 1: them what happened, they're not going to believe you because 222 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: you're a total stranger. Now, some people might just sit 223 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: there and say, oh, okay, well that happened. The line's 224 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: chair people are not going to do that. They want 225 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: to verify everything for themselves. And look, I understand, I 226 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: understand completely. I know. As a matter of fact, families 227 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: want to touch the bodies. Isn't that something It's almost 228 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: like if you've ever seen a mama a dog where 229 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: she loses a pup out of the litter in order, 230 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: and other animals do this too. They'll nuzzle, they'll nuzzle 231 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: the ceased animal that cease pup or calf or whatever, 232 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: just to verify. It's a tactile thing where they're verified 233 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 1: behind that this child is no more and the same 234 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: as here, you know, for David. You know we're talking 235 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: about back in May is when they're last seen. As 236 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: of this taping, we're into August of twenty twenty five, 237 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: now like significantly into August. Okay, this search had gone 238 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: on for a bit, and then there's been lingering questions 239 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: ever since, ever since this horrible discovery out there. 240 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 2: Well, you mentioned the mountains, Joe and this guy he embedded, 241 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 2: you know, he was living in it. He was living 242 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 2: in the woods, using a truck for cover at times, 243 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 2: you know, but he has been There have been a 244 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 2: lot of spottings of him possibly being seen here or there. 245 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 2: But you know, it's a big forest. It's a lot 246 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 2: of area to cover. And boy, I do not want 247 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 2: this to come off wrong. Joe. Yeah, but they were 248 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 2: looking for the three girls. I mean, granted, they care 249 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 2: about Travis Decker, you know, but when they were in 250 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 2: searching for their searching for the girls, they give me 251 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 2: the girls. Do what you're you're a grown man. When 252 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 2: on June second, they go to the campsite, they find 253 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 2: where they knew where he had been, and they find 254 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 2: the girls Joe. They don't find Travis Decker, and that's 255 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 2: when the search changes. They're not looking for a man 256 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 2: trying to disguise three girls and set up shop somewhere 257 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 2: else in the country. He has murdered his daughters in 258 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 2: the woods. And we haven't been given the details of 259 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 2: what was found at the campsite other than Decker's not 260 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 2: here and the girls are gone. The girls are dead. 261 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 2: So tell me. Because the search is still ongoing, we 262 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 2: still don't have travel I mean this, you're thinking about 263 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 2: a country that you know. To be honest with you, 264 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 2: the government is probably listening to us right now. If 265 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 2: you and I start talking about axe handles while we 266 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 2: record this on our Facebook feed, we're going to see 267 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 2: commercials today for ax handles. So how does a person, 268 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 2: a third year old man who is having mental issues, 269 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 2: how does he stay gone like this? How does he 270 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 2: stay hidden. 271 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 1: Walks away from everything? Uh? You know, his vehicle was 272 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,959 Speaker 1: found and him and his vehicle were essentially married together. 273 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:15,679 Speaker 1: You know, let's face it. You know I don't know 274 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: about you. I spent the night in my car before 275 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: now I can't. I can't imagine what it would be 276 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: like to live in a car for a protracted period 277 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: of time. Uh, there are people that do it, and 278 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: they do it all the time. All you gotta do 279 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: is go to l A and drive them down the road. 280 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: You'll see them parked up on pull up on sidewalk, 281 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: on the sadds things you've ever seen, you know, But people 282 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: do it. They survive that way. We think about that 283 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: little precious baby up there and where was it in 284 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: New Hampshire that that monster had her? Yeah, Harmony had 285 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 1: that monster had her, and uh the other sibling and 286 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: the girlfriend I think the three siblings or two, I 287 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 1: can't remember, But that little baby was living in a 288 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: Chrysler seabreing, which are converts up in the Northeast. People 289 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: will live in these environments. So the fact, I think, 290 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: from an investigative standpoint, Dave, is very significant that that 291 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 1: this vehicle has been left behind. And my understanding is 292 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: there was a wallet found in the vehicle. So if 293 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: you leave your wallet behind, you don't know. If he 294 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: doesn't have the means to have a home, so how 295 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: much cash could he have on him? He walks out 296 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:34,640 Speaker 1: of this place leaving the car behind and leaving three murdered, 297 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: angelic little darlings. You know they're in that forest. You 298 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: know what what else was left behind? Dave, you talk 299 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: about a dichotomy. His dog was left and the dog 300 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: is alive. Now you compete if we were to put 301 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: that on scales, Okay, the lives of your children that 302 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: you couldn't have on the basis you see, you probably think, 303 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: you know where I'm going here, and you got the 304 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: dog that has been living with him, and that dog 305 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: is still alive. But yet you snuff out these three 306 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 1: precious lives of your children. That's you know, that's a 307 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: that's a Karen was see comment there. You know, Karen Stark, 308 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:27,160 Speaker 1: our friend of forensic psychologists. I don't even know how 309 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: to begin to kind of unpack that. You know, how 310 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: you can dehumanize these precious souls and and you spare 311 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: the dog. I don't I don't really get that. I 312 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: don't understand it. I think that probably one of the 313 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: most significant pieces that's very puzzling to me about this 314 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: triple homicide of the Decker sisters is the idea that 315 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: you're trying to find evidence of maybe just maybe what 316 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: had actually happened there, and this is kind of significant. 317 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,679 Speaker 1: There was actually blood, bloody handprints that were found on 318 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: I think it was the tailgate of that trunk. 319 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 2: Well, that's what you know. You mentioned he left his 320 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 2: vehicle behind this pickup truck which had been they said 321 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 2: it wasn't operational, whatever was going on with it. The 322 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 2: truck had died and he left it there. You know, 323 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 2: he didn't get it repaired. And again he's homeless for 324 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 2: crying out loud, but when they get there, he's gone. 325 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 2: You mentioned the dog is there. I was thinking, in 326 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 2: my weird way of thinking, I thought that the dog, 327 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:37,879 Speaker 2: when he saw what was going on with the girls, 328 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 2: the dog. Dogs are not stupid, and that maybe the 329 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 2: dog was problematic for it. Maybe the dog was not 330 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 2: allowing him to do what he was trying to do, 331 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 2: and maybe he did something scared the dog away where 332 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,400 Speaker 2: he ran away, and then when Decker left, he came 333 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 2: back like maybe to protect the girls. That sounds crazy, 334 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 2: but that was one of the many thoughts in my head. 335 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:02,439 Speaker 1: All manner of things. I've got a I've got a 336 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: newly acquired part shihaha. Kim and I we Kim and 337 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: I rescue dogs that's that's our thing. We and we 338 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 1: go to kill shelters to get them. And we've got 339 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: three right now. And the latest one that we have 340 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: is her name's Frenchy and she's part Shihuahua. And every 341 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 1: time I come up to the door, if she could 342 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:28,640 Speaker 1: rip my head off, she would. But once I get 343 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,880 Speaker 1: in there, she's wagging her tail, you know, she alerts 344 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: the things, she sees things and uh, you know, and 345 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: she'll crawl back up in Kim's lap. Meanwhile, I've got, 346 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 1: you know, a forty pounds lab that crawls up into 347 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: my lap and I sat there and pet her. 348 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 2: Wow. 349 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: But dogs, dogs are interesting that way, and they they're 350 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,719 Speaker 1: part of you know, dogs are part of families. And 351 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: that's an interesting idea that you put forward there. They 352 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: you know, did the dog, you know, did the dog 353 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: run away? Did he show the dog off? You know 354 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,120 Speaker 1: what exactly happened? Why would you abandon the dog? And 355 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:05,159 Speaker 1: there was also food left behind in the vehicle. But 356 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,679 Speaker 1: the blood on his hands or the bloody hand prints, 357 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: which by the bye DNA testing turned out that this 358 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: is his blood and typing in DNA. 359 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 2: Well wait, wait a minute, it was Travis Decker's blood. 360 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: I think it was. 361 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, okay, we've got we know we have three children, five, eight, 362 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 2: and nine who are dead, and we know there's twist 363 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 2: ties and zip ties and bags all over the place. 364 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 2: Now we've got bloody handprints. Yeah, I'm curious as to 365 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 2: what how did he how did he kill the girls? 366 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 2: Did he do we know that? Do we know how 367 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:42,400 Speaker 2: he killed? 368 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:43,360 Speaker 1: We do? 369 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 2: Oh wait a minute, allegedly killed the girls. He's a suspect. 370 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 2: He's not convicted, he hasn't gone at right. 371 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: He is a suspect at this point in tom And 372 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, the police are actually stating 373 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: he is the soul suspect. They're not looking at anybody 374 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 1: else at this point, and kind of let me break 375 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 1: this down for you and let you know what I 376 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: think or what I know at least at this point 377 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:13,239 Speaker 1: in time. These babies were found and at first they 378 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: said it was one, but apparently now it's all of them. 379 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: Dave had their little wrist bound with zip ties. Just 380 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: let that sink in just for a second. You know, 381 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,679 Speaker 1: we see we see these you know, police officers and 382 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,360 Speaker 1: people in the military that are you know, doing dynamic 383 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: entries and all that sort of thing, and they don't 384 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: have cuffs with them. They'll use zip tie cuffs, and 385 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,439 Speaker 1: you can fashion a zip tie cuff kind of a 386 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 1: simple one, you know, just out of a couple of 387 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: zip ties. So their hands are bound. That means that 388 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: you can't use them. I know, that's GM Morgan. That's 389 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 1: kind of obvious. Thanks for the insight. No, that's important 390 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 1: when you begin to think about the causal effects of 391 00:23:54,880 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: these babies deaths, because Dave, They're death have been ruled 392 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: as a suffocation deaths. And you we've got to go 393 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: back to the Dollar General bags that you mentioned, not 394 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: that these are Dollar General bags, but some fact simile 395 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 1: thereof if you're talking about, you know, some bag that 396 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: they got at routs or whatever the local you know, 397 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,640 Speaker 1: grocery store is or wherever they came from. You've got 398 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: these bags that have been utilized as a weapon. So 399 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: these weaponized plastic bags. What do they always tell us 400 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: as we're young parents about plastic bags and babies keep 401 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 1: them away? Well, that's there's a lot of stuff I 402 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 1: don't agree with that comes out comes out from various 403 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: medical journals and all. That's what I happened to agree with. 404 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: You don't. You don't leave a plastic bag and say 405 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: a crib with a baby. You don't let older you know, 406 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: you don't. You don't let kids play with plastic bags. 407 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: The worst, the worst ones for years and years, believe 408 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: it or not, Dave were dry because kid could put 409 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: their whole body in these things, all right, oh wow, 410 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: And they're not most of the time. They're not permeable. 411 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: That means that they don't they don't breathe, It's what 412 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: I'm saying. So you're not gonna it's not like not 413 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: that this would be great, but it's not like it's 414 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: a burlap sack over your head, right, you know where 415 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: you've got little spaces where you might be able to 416 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: uptake a bit more oxygen. No, no, no, this is 417 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: sealed and day it wasn't. Here. Here's the other piece 418 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 1: that we have found out two and they haven't said 419 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 1: which ones yet. Two of these babies had been double 420 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 1: backed over their heads. A third one was triple backed. 421 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 1: What yeah, triple backed. So if if you guys know 422 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: what Dave and I are talking about with, you know, 423 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: if you go to any grocery store and they give 424 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: you plastic bags, good for about one from moving your 425 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:04,880 Speaker 1: groceries from the trunk of your car, from the beat 426 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: of your truck into the house. And after that, the 427 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: structural continuity of these things breaks down really quick. So 428 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: you know, and I was given us some thought, you know, 429 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: before before you and I were going to chat today, brother, 430 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: and I was thinking he was he was kind of 431 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 1: if he if he is the one that did this, 432 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: he's kind of triple checking everything, checking the boxes. This 433 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 1: goes to intent, right, he's got these things he's doing. 434 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 1: He knows that the bags will break, so he's got 435 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 1: to get more than one there. And the way this 436 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 1: happens is this becomes you know, i'd said suffocation. This 437 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: is truly what's referred to as an oxygen deporavant event. 438 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: So when you you enclose anybody into a small space 439 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: like that and it's sealed, and yeah, a bag is 440 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: a small space. There's very little room in there for 441 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: uh for for oxygen at all. As a matter of fact, 442 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: you'll have more before you stick your or have your 443 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: head stuck in it because your head, the mass of 444 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 1: your head displaces the oxygen that's in there, so it 445 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: kind of runs it out. Then you hold that bag 446 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: in place, and at some point in time, and it's 447 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 1: pretty quickly you begin rebreathing your own expelled air, which 448 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: course is carbon dioxide, and it's lethal. We can't it's 449 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: not it's not that, it's not merely the fact that 450 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: you're absent oxygen. It's now you're uptaking carbon dioxide. And 451 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: it makes people very, very very sleepy, and that sort 452 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,360 Speaker 1: of thing. However, one of the problems is is that 453 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,959 Speaker 1: unless these girls were drugged in some way day, they 454 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: would have an awareness because the primal brain kicks in 455 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 1: and you begin struggling, you begin fighting, and let's just 456 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: let's just talk about this just for a second. Is uncomfortable. 457 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: This makes people feel. Just think anytime you've ever had 458 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 1: something on your face, all right, the one reaction is 459 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: not to walk over to a wall and rub rub 460 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: the item off of your face. All right. You get 461 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: I don't know, you get jelly on your beard, you're 462 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 1: eating toast, or you know, you get a fly on 463 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: your forehead, you walk through a cobweb, which unfortunately I 464 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: seem to do more than any other human on the 465 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,360 Speaker 1: face of the planet. Your reaction is to draw your 466 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: hands up and pull it away. Well, guess what was 467 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: done to them. They couldn't fight. Those little wrists and 468 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: very tiny wrists, by the way, were essentially cuffed with 469 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: these zip ties and they are restrained at this point. 470 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: That would indicate that this was not done post mortem. Okay, 471 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: why are you going to zip tie the hands of 472 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: the deceased? Well, you don't, you restrain them? What type 473 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: of person, Dave, What type of person looks into the 474 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: eyes of their child and says, give me your wrist, 475 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: put your hands behind your back, and you hear that 476 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: very distinctive sound of that zip tie being clicked click click, 477 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: click click as it becomes more and more tight around 478 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 1: the circumference of both of the wrist. And did he say, hey, girls, 479 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: let's play a game. Is that how he enticed them 480 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 1: to do it? I don't know, but I do know 481 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: this based upon the information the police have just released, 482 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: it seems that more and more the evidence is pointing 483 00:29:54,040 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: toward Daddy. Most of the time, when we think about homicides, 484 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: at least for me, even me at this stage in 485 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: my career, you automatically think of a level of violence 486 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: that's observable. You know, someone beaten to death, someone shot 487 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: to death, someone stabbed to death, someone stomped to death, 488 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 1: someone run over intentionally by a car, someone thrown off 489 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: of a house. But you know, many times homicides can 490 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: occur in very passive ways. You know, recently, Dave, you 491 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 1: and I covered the mushroom level, you know, down in Australia, 492 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: and that's kind of a passive homicides of poisoning. We've 493 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: had other poisonings that we've covered, but Dave, I submit 494 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: to you that this is it's a very passive form 495 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: with a little bit of violence kicked in at the 496 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 1: end because you have to if you're there while this 497 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: is going on, and the perpetrator would have had to 498 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: have been there, you're going to bear witness to struggle, 499 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 1: struggles that most of us can't even begin to imagine. 500 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: And these three little angels experience that experience that at 501 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 1: this very young age job. 502 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 2: I'm curious as to the planning that went into this 503 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 2: from Decker's standpoint, and the reason is he had been 504 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 2: abiding by the restrictions of the visitation, which was eight 505 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 2: hours at a time, unsupervised, where he had to stay 506 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 2: within the town limits and then he could come over 507 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 2: four hours, you know, at a stretch there at the 508 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 2: house or what have you. And he had been abiding 509 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 2: by that, he had been living by the rules, and 510 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 2: his ex wife said everything was fine. He seemed to 511 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 2: be doing well with that. But the fact that he 512 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 2: got them on the thirtieth and they were expecting a 513 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 2: return as normal and it didn't happen. But when they, 514 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 2: you know, went to where he had been, where they 515 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 2: located his campsite that he had been staying. As we 516 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, we're not talking a long period of time. 517 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 2: Wasn't like he had a plan to take the girls 518 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 2: and leave. He had a plan to kill the girls. 519 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 2: Because when they got their June second, they found three 520 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 2: dead little girls, ages nine to eight and five. And 521 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 2: that means to me that he went out. The whole 522 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 2: thing was planned ahead of time. They I don't know 523 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 2: how quickly he killed them. Had they been able to 524 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 2: determine that, had they determined did he beat them? Did 525 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 2: he torture them? What did he do to these girls? 526 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 2: I mean suffocating? Okay, that and well, cuffing their hands 527 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 2: all right, zip, tying their hands so they can't move. 528 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:42,959 Speaker 2: He's binding them. I don't know how you bind three girls. 529 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 2: That's I mean, they're they're not easy. 530 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, can I take you back just for a moment, 531 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: because I know that I know that he is an 532 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: Army vess and I'm still unclear. I've heard people make 533 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: comments and I have I have yet to be able 534 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: to kind of verify it for myself solidly, because people 535 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 1: can say any number of things. All you got to 536 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 1: do is look at our episode of the Montaque boat 537 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: death there and all kinds of crazy things get said. 538 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 1: But let me just throw this out to you if 539 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 1: at any point in time he went through survival, escape 540 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: and evasion and resistance and evasion training. One of the 541 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 1: things they do and they put you in a mock 542 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 1: pow situation. They put a bag over your head and 543 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: they bind you. They bind you with zip ties and 544 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: that's part of the training. Where and it's and whether 545 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: or not he went through the training or not. It's 546 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 1: in a wilderness setting. I know the Special Operations in 547 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 1: the Army they brag they go through Robin Sage, which 548 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: is part of their training. They have to negotiate and 549 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: all those sorts of things learning how to do that. 550 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: And the Special Operators also have to go through seer training, 551 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,320 Speaker 1: which is it's pretty tough It's some of the toughest 552 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 1: training you have to go through because you have to 553 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 1: withstand interrogations and all that, and that idea of depriving 554 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: an individual of movement and also their senses, like you, 555 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,240 Speaker 1: you don't know where sounds are coming from. You can't 556 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 1: see anything. Now. I don't know if that was kind 557 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: of imprinted in his brain. Maybe he thought that that 558 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: was an expeditious way to end to end life. But 559 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 1: I submit to you that he's at least aware of 560 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 1: that and that he chose he chose this and chose allegedly, 561 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: you know, if he is the perpetrator found, you know, 562 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 1: left them out in those woods. I don't know that 563 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,880 Speaker 1: that's part of it that you know that I was 564 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 1: thinking about all along, because I don't know what his 565 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 1: level of training. 566 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 2: I mean, you understand that then his military training. When 567 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,399 Speaker 2: you go into social media and you see other people 568 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,839 Speaker 2: that he was in service with and the commonality that 569 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 2: they have. Decker had advanced infantry combat training. He was 570 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 2: an airborne paratroop who earned his Elite Ranger tab. That 571 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 2: means he has elite wilderness evasion training and survival skills. 572 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 2: Those are a couple of the things that let you know. 573 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 2: He also had different profiles that he talked about, being 574 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 2: a qualified instructor in other issues of warfare, being training 575 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 2: out and alone. I guess it's kind of what I'm 576 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 2: after here. But we've got a guy who knows the 577 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,800 Speaker 2: wilderness is living in the wilderness, you know, as a 578 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 2: way of life now as a homeless vet, and he 579 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 2: has killed his girls obviously allegedly killed his girls with 580 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 2: proper planning. It's not like he was trying to get 581 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 2: away with them. He took them out of the woods 582 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,879 Speaker 2: to end their life and then did not take his own. 583 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 2: He just took off running. Is it the idea? I mean, 584 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,360 Speaker 2: this goes back to Karen Stark and Bethany, but you know, 585 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 2: was it? Well, if I can't have my girls all 586 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 2: the time, nobody can. 587 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 1: I mean I don't know the first things and the 588 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 1: first things I thought of. You know, it's kind of 589 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 1: like the shunned level if you will, you know that 590 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,319 Speaker 1: comes back, and you know, they just brutalize somebody that 591 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,879 Speaker 1: they perceive has rejected them or maybe did reject them, 592 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 1: and they're going to destroy them. Well that and and 593 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,880 Speaker 1: why why exactly would he go after the girls and 594 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:27,799 Speaker 1: not after the right. 595 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:32,359 Speaker 2: Would little girls have ability to suffocate quickly or would 596 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 2: it take them longer. 597 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:37,839 Speaker 1: To say they've got less less lung capacity? Man? And 598 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 1: plus you've got to you've got a grown ass man 599 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:45,880 Speaker 1: with military training that probably has probably got significant grip strength. 600 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,360 Speaker 1: He can And this is another thing I'm curious about. 601 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 1: How did how did he secure the bags because this 602 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 1: is kind of ghastly. If you put those bags over 603 00:36:55,040 --> 00:37:00,839 Speaker 1: their their heads, you can secure them on the neck. 604 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:02,360 Speaker 1: You can do it with tape, you could do it 605 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,399 Speaker 1: with another zip tie. You can hold it in place. 606 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 1: And if you can't move your hands to remove the bag, 607 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: situation will take care of itself momentarily. All right, Did 608 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,800 Speaker 1: he do that? Which they didn't say anything about anything 609 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:20,879 Speaker 1: around the neck, They just said bags over the head. 610 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 1: That implies to me, Dave, that he held those bags 611 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 1: in place one by one. Now, what was going on 612 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 1: with the other kids that were still alive? When the 613 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,799 Speaker 1: first one dies? Did he take her off and kill 614 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 1: her separately away from now you girls sit here, I'm 615 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: going to go off with Sissy over here. Okay, kills 616 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: her there, then takes the next one so for and 617 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,359 Speaker 1: so or did he kill them in front of one. 618 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,719 Speaker 1: I know, your mind can go to all these different places. 619 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 1: Another thing that you would have evidence of would be 620 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,640 Speaker 1: in their own little way, there would be a mind struggle, 621 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 1: So you would see evidence on the ground of not 622 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 1: just these kind of scuffed footprints where they're resisting. You 623 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:10,840 Speaker 1: can see marks on the ground where they would struggle 624 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:12,919 Speaker 1: with their entire body kind of rolling. And somebody that's 625 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 1: a trained observer of these kinds of things, it certainly 626 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 1: wouldn't be me. They I've had them pointed out to me, 627 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,399 Speaker 1: it seems, but I'm no tracker or anything like that. 628 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,359 Speaker 1: It's amazing what these people can recreate, you know, and 629 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,560 Speaker 1: tell you the story by just the marks of the crown. 630 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:32,920 Speaker 1: It's amazing that that may have taken place there. And 631 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: you know that soil, if you've ever been into the 632 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 1: Cascade Range, that soil is very lonamy. It's you know, 633 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 1: you're shielded from sunlight lots of times. If you're inside 634 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,880 Speaker 1: that canopy, it almost looks like twilight, you know, beneath 635 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 1: that canopy of the trees and the ground's very soft. 636 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,960 Speaker 1: There might still be evidence of that that they picked up. 637 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,880 Speaker 1: I'm wondering about his footprints, you know, because they're going 638 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,720 Speaker 1: to be significantly out larger than these these babies. 639 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 2: By the DNA, Joe, where did they find it? Where 640 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:06,759 Speaker 2: do they find DNA? From the girls? 641 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 1: Here's the other here's the other piece To this day, 642 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 1: that's so freaking disturbing. They found the DNA on the 643 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:20,920 Speaker 1: zip ties. Okay, so that tells me that he's not 644 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 1: wearing gloves because if it's direct contact onto a zip tie, 645 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 1: and that's a very Just look at a zip tie 646 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 1: if you got one of your drawer or in your 647 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:31,920 Speaker 1: toolbox or whatever laying around the house, just look at 648 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 1: the surface of it. There's not a lot of surface area, 649 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 1: and so intensely manipulating these things, which you would have 650 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 1: to do. Because I'm blind as a bat, I have 651 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 1: a really difficult time finding a location where you insert 652 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,080 Speaker 1: it and then zip it. You know, it's kind of 653 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 1: like threading a needle many times that requires incredible concentration 654 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,720 Speaker 1: and you're holding it. You tend to hold things tighter 655 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,920 Speaker 1: like that, and you're trying to manipulate them. So he 656 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: would have pulled the TA when he if he's doing 657 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,479 Speaker 1: this bare handily, he has to anchor with one hand, 658 00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,520 Speaker 1: pull with the other, pull it through and secure it down. 659 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: Found that and the DNA there. There's also his DNA 660 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:17,960 Speaker 1: and this is per the police. His DNA on the 661 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,439 Speaker 1: bags as well. So this is going to rule out 662 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,520 Speaker 1: some third party that may have had something. And I 663 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,560 Speaker 1: don't think that you know, we've talked about touch DNA 664 00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:31,280 Speaker 1: in the past day, where you know that's the sloughing 665 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,560 Speaker 1: of the skin cells that falls away. This isn't I 666 00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 1: don't think this is a passive thing. 667 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 2: Okay. 668 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:42,359 Speaker 1: I think that there's a probability that well, a couple 669 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,440 Speaker 1: of things. We know that the bloody hand prints, Okay, 670 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,760 Speaker 1: did he cut himself doing something that could transfer onto 671 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 1: the bag. Also, there's the element of sweat. People don't 672 00:40:53,600 --> 00:41:00,320 Speaker 1: realize how DNA rich sweat is. And if you're struggling 673 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: with your own child as they are restrained below you, 674 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,879 Speaker 1: you're having to hold that bag in place, I would 675 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: imagine he would begin to sweat somewhat. And here's the 676 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 1: other thing. When you grip think about if okay, let's 677 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,440 Speaker 1: just say you've got something valuable that's on a table. 678 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,319 Speaker 1: They're approximates the size of a human head. I don't know, 679 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,800 Speaker 1: like a vase. I'm sorry for all my fancy friends 680 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:30,719 Speaker 1: out there, of oz and you're trying to cover this 681 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,759 Speaker 1: thing in a bag. You're not necessarily just going to 682 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 1: take the bag and hold it externally and pull it down. 683 00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:39,960 Speaker 1: You'll wrap your hands around the inside of it and 684 00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,600 Speaker 1: kind of grab it with a fist and pull it down, 685 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,960 Speaker 1: and then you'll take it and maybe tie it or 686 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,279 Speaker 1: put something else around it to secure it. Okay. I 687 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,480 Speaker 1: think his DNA could potentially be on the xterior and 688 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,239 Speaker 1: the interior of the back, and a lot of that's 689 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,319 Speaker 1: going to be coming from the sweat that's stripping off 690 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:00,480 Speaker 1: of his body, or maybe the blood they found on 691 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:04,160 Speaker 1: the blood thing is still a mystery. You know that 692 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,000 Speaker 1: we know that they had dogs out there. I don't know, 693 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,920 Speaker 1: because you know, you're thinking wilderness, you're thinking blood, You're 694 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:15,319 Speaker 1: thinking dogs. Did he have blood that trailed off after 695 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:19,080 Speaker 1: him as he's wandering off into the forest. I don't 696 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 1: know that there's a lot of unanswered questions. I think, 697 00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,840 Speaker 1: and this is kind of even more hopeless if the 698 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,799 Speaker 1: sin could be any more hopeless. I think that there 699 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:36,680 Speaker 1: is a possibility that he may no longer be with us, 700 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,239 Speaker 1: he may have wandered off and either if he had 701 00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,080 Speaker 1: a weapon with him, and he you know, this guy's 702 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:46,880 Speaker 1: highly trained. He doesn't have to have a physical weapon 703 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:52,000 Speaker 1: with him to end himself. He could have wandered off 704 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:54,960 Speaker 1: and done any number of things out there, and I don't. 705 00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:59,280 Speaker 1: And this place is so fast. Now, I'm not saying 706 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:01,800 Speaker 1: nobody misconstrue what I'm saying. I'm not saying this is 707 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:05,160 Speaker 1: the actual location where this happened. But all you got 708 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,640 Speaker 1: to do is think about DBE Cooper, Right, DBI Cooper 709 00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,719 Speaker 1: came out of that airplane and no one saw hide 710 00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:12,880 Speaker 1: in her hair of him. And we know that he 711 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,200 Speaker 1: had parachute. You know, he had all the cash they 712 00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,680 Speaker 1: think they found. They found some of the cash embedded 713 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:20,239 Speaker 1: in a riverbed. I don't know if that was a 714 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,400 Speaker 1: Columbia or whatever it was, but that's you're still talking 715 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,520 Speaker 1: about the same kind of forested area like this. You know, 716 00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:28,359 Speaker 1: the earth just swallows things. 717 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:32,120 Speaker 2: How long, Joe? I mean, look, you've you actually have 718 00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,920 Speaker 2: mentioned to me we have had a common character in 719 00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 2: our world. Eric Robert Rudolph, the Olympic Park bomber in Atlanta, 720 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:45,400 Speaker 2: who also bombed in aborsing clinic in Birmingham. And you 721 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,560 Speaker 2: know he stayed gone for a long time. There was 722 00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,319 Speaker 2: thoughts that maybe he had offered himself somewhere and things 723 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:55,320 Speaker 2: like that, but he actually was caught while he was 724 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:59,640 Speaker 2: in the midst of staying gone. How did how is 725 00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:01,160 Speaker 2: he caught? How did they track him? 726 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,040 Speaker 1: I don't know. They had whole teams of people, and 727 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,840 Speaker 1: you know, I was part of that investigation, the Olympic 728 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,960 Speaker 1: Park bombing, and not that I had a grand insight 729 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,920 Speaker 1: into anything. You know, My focus was on the victim, 730 00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,319 Speaker 1: who happened to be a school teacher. That was, you know, 731 00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:20,600 Speaker 1: there an Olympic Olympic Park that night to hear the 732 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,120 Speaker 1: concerts Jack mac and the Heart Attack. I'll never forget it. 733 00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,640 Speaker 1: They were performing on the band and on the stage 734 00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:27,759 Speaker 1: and when you if you go back and look at 735 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,759 Speaker 1: that video, you see people the classic videos, people see 736 00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:33,680 Speaker 1: in the stage and all of a sudden they react 737 00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:36,080 Speaker 1: to the blast. They kind of look back to their 738 00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,280 Speaker 1: right and that's when the blast went off at that tower, 739 00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,560 Speaker 1: and it was constructed kind of like it's hard to 740 00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:45,400 Speaker 1: describe as you've never been in the military, but an 741 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,279 Speaker 1: anti personnel mind kind of a clay more that kind 742 00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:51,279 Speaker 1: of spreads out in a big fan. He'd used in 743 00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,759 Speaker 1: This really shows my age. He used a backpack that 744 00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,440 Speaker 1: the military used to used to carry you back in 745 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,239 Speaker 1: my day. It's called an Alice pack, and so he 746 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:06,279 Speaker 1: had packed it with all manner stuff, you know, bits 747 00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:12,320 Speaker 1: of concrete, there were roofing nails, metal, metal, screws, everything, 748 00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:14,759 Speaker 1: and so Alice, Alice Hawthorne was her name. I'll never 749 00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:18,839 Speaker 1: forget that she caught one of those screws in the 750 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:24,280 Speaker 1: corner of her eye and it embedded in her cerebellum, traveled, 751 00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,560 Speaker 1: you know, to the back of her brain, and killed 752 00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,240 Speaker 1: her right there. She also has blast injuries to her arms. 753 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:34,080 Speaker 1: And we wanted to know, I remember back then, we 754 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,279 Speaker 1: wanted to know who had done this. And immediately, you know, 755 00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:43,800 Speaker 1: in the aftermath of this, unfortunately, one of my favorite 756 00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:48,520 Speaker 1: law enforcement heroes of all time, Richard Jewel, uh the 757 00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,560 Speaker 1: Feds pointing the finger at him, and one of the 758 00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:56,400 Speaker 1: most tragic stories in modern America. And I submit to 759 00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:58,600 Speaker 1: you that he died as a result of having to 760 00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,040 Speaker 1: go through that trauma. Watch that movie, by the way, 761 00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,239 Speaker 1: if anybody's ever the clinics would movie about Richard Jewell. 762 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,000 Speaker 1: He's a very nice man. I met him a couple 763 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:11,200 Speaker 1: occasions before he finally died, and you know, they wanted 764 00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,360 Speaker 1: to point the finger at him. He actually saved lives 765 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,560 Speaker 1: because he started moving people away from the device. He 766 00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,439 Speaker 1: saw it, Richard saw it. He was doing his job. 767 00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:21,839 Speaker 1: He was moving people away. Probably would have had more 768 00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:26,160 Speaker 1: people die and the bag got reoriented and the blast 769 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:29,320 Speaker 1: kind of went up instead of out. If that bag 770 00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:33,960 Speaker 1: had stayed in its original position, I think that we 771 00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,040 Speaker 1: could have had hundreds we had and people forget about 772 00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,080 Speaker 1: all the folks that were damaged that night too. There 773 00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:43,440 Speaker 1: are people that still are dealing with scars and maladies 774 00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:47,080 Speaker 1: that arose from that evening. But anyway back to you know, 775 00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:53,560 Speaker 1: to Eric Rudolf, he was he had headed out for 776 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,040 Speaker 1: you know, for North Georgia and the North Carolina, the 777 00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,759 Speaker 1: western North Carolina Mountains, made his way up there, and 778 00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:05,919 Speaker 1: David was I can't remember the exact amount of time, 779 00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:09,480 Speaker 1: but I know that the US Marshalls poured their resources 780 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,480 Speaker 1: into it, the FBI. I'd even heard rumors at one 781 00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,560 Speaker 1: point time that certain elements were deployed from the military 782 00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,319 Speaker 1: to aid and search. And these are people that are 783 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:26,600 Speaker 1: highly trained and they could never turn anything up. And 784 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,040 Speaker 1: it just goes to show you you never know how 785 00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,520 Speaker 1: life is going to work out because he was found 786 00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:33,720 Speaker 1: in the back. I think it was like a seven 787 00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:38,160 Speaker 1: eleven in the middle of the night in this little 788 00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,600 Speaker 1: town that's just right over the Georgia North Carolina border 789 00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:46,359 Speaker 1: up into the mountains in North Carolina, dumpster diving, and 790 00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:49,960 Speaker 1: deputy that night was on patrol. It was I think 791 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:53,480 Speaker 1: it was a Sunday night, pitch black, and he sees 792 00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:55,880 Speaker 1: this guy in the back of the dumpster and I 793 00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:57,759 Speaker 1: might be getting story all messed up at this point 794 00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,719 Speaker 1: in time, It's been so many years. But he he 795 00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:04,080 Speaker 1: confronts this guy and the guy looks at him says, 796 00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:09,080 Speaker 1: I'm Eric Rudolf. You imagined. I mean, everybody, the most 797 00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,120 Speaker 1: skilled people in the world have been looking for this 798 00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,040 Speaker 1: guy coming to the mountains, and this deputy in this 799 00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,120 Speaker 1: little town up there, you know, happens to come across 800 00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:19,759 Speaker 1: this guy. You never know what's going to happen. You 801 00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,319 Speaker 1: never know what's going to happen with Travis Decker. I 802 00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:24,920 Speaker 1: don't know that he will ever be found. I know 803 00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:30,000 Speaker 1: that they have in this sadly, I know that the 804 00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,960 Speaker 1: government has pulled back some of the resources at this point. 805 00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:38,319 Speaker 1: I don't know what that's an indication of some thought 806 00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:41,879 Speaker 1: that he was headed over into Idaho and was going 807 00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:45,080 Speaker 1: to try to cross the border. People have thought that 808 00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:46,640 Speaker 1: maybe he was going to try to cross the border 809 00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:50,799 Speaker 1: into Canada through Idaho and that little sliver up there 810 00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,359 Speaker 1: that you know runs that distance on our common border there. 811 00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,600 Speaker 1: I don't know that we will ever find him, but 812 00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:04,200 Speaker 1: I can tell you this, The world, I can almost 813 00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:11,480 Speaker 1: assuredly tell you, is a much much darker place absent 814 00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:17,759 Speaker 1: these three precious little souls. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and 815 00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,280 Speaker 1: this is body Backs.