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Speaker 1: This is let's be clear with Shannon Doherty.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 1: Everyone, This is Shannon Doherty and today I am joined

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Speaker 1: by very special guests. My friend Holly Marie comes. Hi.

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Speaker 2: Holly, Hi, how are you going?

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Speaker 1: As usual? So full of energy? What some people don't

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Speaker 1: know is that we knew each other before Charmed.

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Speaker 3: How do people not know that? I don't know they

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Speaker 3: weren't paying attention.

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Speaker 1: I know, but some people don't know.

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Speaker 3: They didn't watch TMZ very much.

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Speaker 1: Correct.

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Speaker 3: Wait, this was before TMZ.

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Speaker 1: It was so how did we how did we meet?

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Speaker 3: Are you saying you don't remember?

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Speaker 1: I'm quizzing you?

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Speaker 3: Oh, but I didn't know there was going to be

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Speaker 3: a test.

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Speaker 1: There's always a test.

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Speaker 2: Wow, this is this is a long string of events.

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Speaker 2: So my first husband, my first mistake, was friends with

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Speaker 2: Jeffrey Dean Morgan some of you may know his name,

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Speaker 2: and he was dating Lara Flynn Boyle at the time.

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Speaker 3: So Lara was actually.

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Speaker 2: The first friend I had in La when I moved

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Speaker 2: there to do pick offensuits, and Lara knew Rox Sanna,

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Speaker 2: Roxanna knew you, and Charlie was in there in the

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Speaker 2: middle somewhere. So when I was no longer friends with Lara.

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Speaker 2: Then I became friends with Rexanna, and then I became

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Speaker 2: friends with you, and then Roxanna became upset that we became.

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Speaker 1: Friends, and well, really the story is like you met

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Speaker 1: me and you were like, I don't need any other friend,

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Speaker 1: but Shannon.

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Speaker 2: That was the distinction.

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Speaker 1: That was it.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, really it was the only joy.

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Speaker 1: You're like, I don't need any of these other people.

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Speaker 1: With her multiple personalities, she covers all of them. It's

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Speaker 1: all good.

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Speaker 2: So and so then I became I became Charlie's daughter's godmother,

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Speaker 2: and then I got fired because of the first husband,

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Speaker 2: my first mistake. She in like that situation, and then

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Speaker 2: you got hired as that godmother. It's all very twisted.

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Speaker 2: If you think about.

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Speaker 1: It, it is. It is really twisted. So we all right,

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Speaker 1: So right.

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Speaker 3: I was nineteen Oh god, that.

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Speaker 1: Means that means I was twenty.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 2: I that means I had like a momentary lapse where

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Speaker 2: I'm like, what am I thirty nine now? Oh? No,

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Speaker 2: forty nine? So that means that was thirty years ago.

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Speaker 2: And I just don't think there's enough time in the

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Speaker 2: day to go through all of this.

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Speaker 1: That's all. It's a long, long, long time it's a

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Speaker 1: long journey, right, So we hung out, we did all

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Speaker 1: of this stuff, and when when Charmed came around, I remember.

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Speaker 2: Seeing a lot of stuff here.

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Speaker 1: By the way, I know I'm going to get to

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Speaker 1: Charmed real quick. We can always back track. We well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, okay, hold on, no, no, right, no, because

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Speaker 1: you said you said first mistake a couple of times,

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Speaker 1: which is really funny because I think we paralleled with

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Speaker 1: mistakes through out our friendship. You know, you're on your

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Speaker 1: third marriage, right I am, aren't you? But so far,

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Speaker 1: so good? Well, no, I mean my third is ending, right,

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Speaker 1: So okay, here's here's one of my favorite stories about

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Speaker 1: Holly that I want to tell all of our listeners.

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Speaker 1: It is that hollywould often stay at my house because

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Speaker 1: of my first mistake. The first mistake was no bueno,

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Speaker 1: and she needed a little bit of safety and protection

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Speaker 1: and and I supplied it along with my German shepherd Elfie,

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Speaker 1: who was like shits and three trained and cray cray

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Speaker 1: and loved Holly, and she kept people away from the property.

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Speaker 1: Let's just put it like that. She had a couple

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Speaker 1: of encounters with the first mistake that didn't go so

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Speaker 1: well for him. And so Hollywoold walk around the house

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Speaker 1: in overalls with a tool belt and she would fix

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Speaker 1: everything in the house that needed fixing. Like I distinctly

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Speaker 1: recall looking at her and saying, it's so weird that

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Speaker 1: there's not a lock on my bathroom door, Like what

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Speaker 1: if I have a guy over and I need to

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Speaker 1: use the restroom, they could just come in, Like that's

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Speaker 1: not okay. And the next thing I knew, I heard

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Speaker 1: like hammering and there was a lock on the door.

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Speaker 1: I was like, this is so cool.

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Speaker 2: I was handy your projects.

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Speaker 1: You were very, very very handy. Yeah you uh yeah

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Speaker 1: you you fixed everything in my house. I actually need

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Speaker 1: you to.

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Speaker 2: Something next.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a couple I don't need fixing.

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Speaker 2: Do you have anything that needs to be put together?

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Speaker 1: And you're cheaper and funnier than a handyman, I think.

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Speaker 4: So.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I jumped a Charmed and I was obviously

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Speaker 1: off of nine O two and oh. I was very

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Speaker 1: trepidacious of working with Aaron Spelling again and getting involved

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Speaker 1: because they burned me really badly on nine O two

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Speaker 1: and oh, and I was probably carrying around a lot

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Speaker 1: of resentment and anger still, but absolutely, you know, working

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Speaker 1: do mall rats like doing different projects, you know, pretty chilled.

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Speaker 1: And Holly, I picked you up right and we were

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Speaker 1: in my car and she saw like this script sort

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Speaker 1: of thrown in the backseat.

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Speaker 2: That's how much you looked at it. You saw spelling

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Speaker 2: just through it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true. I saw Aaron spelling. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going down that path again, no, thank you.

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Speaker 1: But you saw it and you were like, have you

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Speaker 1: read it? And I was like, absolutely not.

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Speaker 2: And I said, actually, this one is pretty good. You'll

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Speaker 2: you'll probably like it. And you said, no, it says

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Speaker 2: Spelling on it. And I said, I know, I understand,

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Speaker 2: but if they sent it to you, that means they

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Speaker 2: want to work with you on it and it might

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Speaker 2: be a good thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I read it.

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Speaker 3: And then you had your meeting with Aaron coming to

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Speaker 3: Jesus moment.

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Speaker 1: I mean it wasn't really a coming to Jesus moment.

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Speaker 3: It was for him.

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Speaker 1: It was for him like you just walk in and

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Speaker 1: it's as if nothing happened, right, I mean for him,

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Speaker 1: that's how he how he conducted the meeting was it

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Speaker 1: was like, kiddo, let's do this project together. It's gonna

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Speaker 1: be great. And I was just like, do we want

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Speaker 1: to talk about everything that happened in the past. Do

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Speaker 1: we want to talk about that you fired me and

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Speaker 1: didn't even have a discussion with me, and like all

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Speaker 1: this stuff that transpired on nine o two zero and

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Speaker 1: how you know that was just an ugly situation. But no,

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Speaker 1: he didn't really want to discuss any of it. He

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Speaker 1: just wanted us to move forward.

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Speaker 3: He was moving on.

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Speaker 1: But you know, you were right. It was really well written.

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Speaker 1: Constance Burge did an amazing job. It was supernatural, but

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Speaker 1: like it had darkness to it as well, and it

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Speaker 1: was funny to a certain extent. And it was like

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Speaker 1: the relationship between the sisters was so powerful and so great.

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Speaker 2: It was funny by accident, Like it wasn't supposed to

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Speaker 2: be funny. Anything funny happened was totally my accident.

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Speaker 1: That's true.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, But then it worked because you know, the circumstances

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Speaker 3: were so beyond reality that to have those moments of

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Speaker 3: humor or humanizing moments helped it a lot.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you were Aaron offered us different roles. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm jumping ahead once again. So he wanted me for

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Speaker 1: Piper for your role.

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Speaker 3: Yep, And I had auditioned for Phoebe, which was painful.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and we sort of were like, let's switch this around.

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Speaker 1: Let me be the older, let you be the middle.

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Speaker 1: He didn't believe that we were old enough to play

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Speaker 1: those characters.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was Actually we were the appropriate ages for

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Speaker 2: the other characters that we preferred.

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Speaker 1: Right, And we preferred them because they were like Proof

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Speaker 1: felt more authentic to me. She also felt like a

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Speaker 1: different character than Brenda, which was really important to me.

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Speaker 1: Like Brenda on nine o two and zero was such

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Speaker 1: a she had so much like teenage angst and made

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Speaker 1: so many mistakes and was kind of selfish and self

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Speaker 1: serving in her own way, and Prue was the antithesis

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Speaker 1: of that. Right. She was all about her sisters and

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Speaker 1: all about self sacrifice, which I really liked as far

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Speaker 1: as a career move and for me personally, I just

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Speaker 1: didn't want to play a character that seemed to look

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Speaker 1: frazzled or like the Phoebe character, which was, you know,

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Speaker 1: a little on that immature cusp. I wanted to play

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Speaker 1: like a very solid, strong woman who put her sisters

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Speaker 1: above everything else. Why did you want to play Piper?

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Speaker 3: You know, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I just felt I definitely couldn't be the youthful Phoebe one.

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Speaker 2: I don't think I was that youthful when I was youthful,

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Speaker 2: and so Piper was just far more appropriate for me

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Speaker 2: at the time.

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Speaker 3: And she was a handful. It was you know, it

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Speaker 3: was a challenge.

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Speaker 1: Right, which I think is the thing about the two

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Speaker 1: of us always is that we kind of like challenges.

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Speaker 3: Definitely, I don't want to be bored.

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Speaker 1: That's a lot of our mistakes.

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Speaker 2: All of them.

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Speaker 1: Were like, well that's a challenge. That one's a challenge.

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Speaker 1: We can change him. I don't see red flag red

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Speaker 1: flags everywhere, no problem.

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Speaker 3: You've got a discount on red flags today.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah, I mean I think that like Piper,

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Speaker 1: I just remember reading the script and when you were like,

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Speaker 1: I want to play Piper. I thought, this actually makes

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Speaker 1: sense because you would bring your sort of you have

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Speaker 1: like a dryness to you, which I love, like that's

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Speaker 1: my kind of sense of humor is a little dry,

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Speaker 1: little dark, super witty, clever. And yet they're back then

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Speaker 1: not saying that it's like this now. Back then there

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Speaker 1: was like there was something naive about you personally and

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Speaker 1: very like still very trusting regardless of your mistake, you

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Speaker 1: were still very trusting and soft, and it was a

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Speaker 1: It was a good casting call for you to be

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Speaker 1: Piper because you were able to bring the vulnerability to her,

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Speaker 1: the negativity to her, and along with like your dryness,

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Speaker 1: your eye rolls, which you know you're now famous for apparently,

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Speaker 1: you know, you brought a character that I personally felt

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Speaker 1: when I read the script was kind of two dimensional,

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Speaker 1: and you really made her three dimensional, Like you gave

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Speaker 1: her so many different layers and so many different colors.

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Speaker 1: You brought her to life, I think in a way

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Speaker 1: that not even the producers or constans could have could

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Speaker 1: have seen coming.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, Constance was tough too.

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Speaker 2: Remember she she based the characters on her sisters, and

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Speaker 2: so she was trying to hold me to what she

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Speaker 2: had created. And I was like, you got to give

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Speaker 2: me little leeway here, you gotta give me a little

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Speaker 2: It was tough to make everybody happy. You know, the

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Speaker 2: network was against me, only erin, and you wanted me blackmailed.

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Speaker 3: You blackmailed the network into wanting me.

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Speaker 1: We'll go into that story. So who was the network

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Speaker 1: WB or CW at that point, it was still the WB. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the WB so I was already committed to the project,

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Speaker 1: and Erin and I made a calculated decision to take

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Speaker 1: only Holly for Piper and another girl, Dana for for Phoebe.

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Speaker 1: So we go to the network. I'm sitting in with

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Speaker 1: the network. The girls come in individually and read off of me,

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Speaker 1: and it's really like, I love telling the story. I

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Speaker 1: hope you like it as much as me, because I

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Speaker 1: just think it's such an interesting take on Hollywood and

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Speaker 1: sometimes the closed mindedness of people and someone like you,

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Speaker 1: like persevering and proving everybody wrong, which I love. But

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Speaker 1: so you came in and you read, Dana came in

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Speaker 1: and read, and the network, you guys went out of

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Speaker 1: the room and the network looked at me and they said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: she just doesn't have like that it factor. And I

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Speaker 1: was like, what are you talking about? Like you know

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Speaker 1: that like charisma, that like like when you walk in

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Speaker 1: a room, Shannon, like everybody takes notice. And I went, whoa, whoa, WOA.

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Speaker 1: That's because I'm now who I am thanks to nine

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Speaker 1: oh two and oh thanks to a network giving me

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Speaker 1: a chance, thanks to Fox Network saying like, okay, let's

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Speaker 1: hire her for Brenda. It's because I was on the

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Speaker 1: cover Rolling Stone magazine, like, you give this girl this

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Speaker 1: part and she's going to do all of that. They

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Speaker 1: were still sitting on the fence. Erin and I walked out,

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Speaker 1: and I remember that you and Dana were standing in

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Speaker 1: the parking lot and Erin and I kind of like

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Speaker 1: walked away from you guys, and Aaron goes, kiddo, what

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Speaker 1: do you want to do. I'll fight for Holly. And

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Speaker 1: I said, she does it, or I don't do it,

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Speaker 1: and Aaron goes, I'll back you, and I went great.

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Speaker 1: So we had our Piper. We did not have our Phoebe.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 2: I believe the term the actual term was star quality.

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Speaker 2: She doesn't have the star quality that you do. And

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Speaker 2: that one stuck with me for a while, and I

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Speaker 2: know exactly the person who said it, and she actually

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Speaker 2: called me years later to do another pilot after Charmed,

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Speaker 2: and it was a pilot.

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Speaker 1: It was six women mistresses, right, yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I said, are you trying to kill me? And

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Speaker 2: she goes, no, absolutely not. She goes, I think you're

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Speaker 2: the perfect person for this project. And I was like

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Speaker 2: why and she goes, because I know you'll deal with

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Speaker 2: all of them really well.

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Speaker 3: And I was like, God damn it.

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Speaker 2: But it didn't get picked up obviously anyway, I think

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Speaker 2: they picked up dropped a diva instead.

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Speaker 1: Right, So then you know, we they to cast this

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Speaker 1: girl out in New York. Lori Rahm, who was wonderful,

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Speaker 1: loved her. She fit in perfectly. She brought some something

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Speaker 1: like she was quirky, right, like she was quirky, but

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Speaker 1: took everything very seriously.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think she was primarily a stage actress before this,

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Speaker 2: and it kind of showed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I enjoyed her, but she ended up quitting.

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Speaker 4: She did, and after we got picked up, and then

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Speaker 4: they filled her part with Elis Milana.

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Speaker 3: It was actually right in the middle. We found out

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Speaker 3: right in the middle of.

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Speaker 2: The TV Guide shoot that she wasn't coming to the

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Speaker 2: shoot and we didn't know why, And we found out

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Speaker 2: later that she was a member of a particular church

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Speaker 2: and the church didn't like that she was playing a

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Speaker 2: witch on TV and basically told her she would go

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Speaker 2: to hell.

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Speaker 1: Listen. I not the decision I personally would have made, clearly,

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Speaker 1: but I do respect her for, you know, putting her

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Speaker 1: faith in her values first, and.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't argue with it. You know that nobody could.

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Speaker 2: They just kind of went, Okay, that's you know, now

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Speaker 2: what do we do? So that's why that TV Guide

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Speaker 2: shoot there's like there's us on each side and they

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Speaker 2: just dropped to listen to the middle of the photo shirt.

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Speaker 1: What a time period mm hm and charmed. It was

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Speaker 1: like a you know, it was I sort of looked

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Speaker 1: back and think like that first season was sort of

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Speaker 1: the best season to shoot as far as everybody getting along.

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Speaker 1: Sure I felt, you know, I mean compared to season

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Speaker 1: two and season three for me, season one we were

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Speaker 1: all still like new working together and feeling things out.

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Speaker 1: There were obviously things that you know, we didn't necessarily

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Speaker 1: all agree on, Like I didn't think it was important

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Speaker 1: to move to a studio lot so that we could

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Speaker 1: have a commissary. There were just a few of those

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Speaker 1: things where you were like, okay, you know, I look

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Speaker 1: at season one a lot and say, wow, we were

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Speaker 1: getting our feet under us, Like you see the stay

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Speaker 1: improvement from season one to season three, season three being

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Speaker 1: my favorite season, and just like the growth like with

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Speaker 1: our writers and I think even the growth with like

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Speaker 1: our acting, and we settled into our parts a lot

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Speaker 1: more and felt a bit more of a freedom. Certainly

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Speaker 1: in season three, I can't. I'm not going to talk

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Speaker 1: about the other seasons because I was there, so why

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Speaker 1: would I. But like, you know, you and I had

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Speaker 1: so many arguments with the producers about our clothing, about

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Speaker 1: our hair, Like they wanted to control every single aspect

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Speaker 1: of us. We could not. We had zero freedom.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean, well that's Aaron's thing too with

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Speaker 2: the hairstyles, Like we were not allowed to change our

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Speaker 2: hair for the first I think six episodes, Like it

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Speaker 2: couldn't even they didn't even want it to be up.

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Speaker 1: You had to establish your hairstyle and keep it that

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Speaker 1: way because he felt that that's how an audience became

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Speaker 1: familiar with you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how they identified with the character. Was a

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Speaker 2: big part of the.

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Speaker 1: Hair, right, And listen, I maybe he's right.

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Speaker 2: It's a formula, for sure, it's a formula.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I like to think that people are identifying

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Speaker 1: with the character because of what we're bringing to it

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Speaker 1: and our performances, not in the physical.

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Speaker 3: All right, well one would hope, but right, right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when you work that hard and those hours

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Speaker 1: you're working seventeen eighteen hour days, it's nice to think

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Speaker 1: that it's because you're talented and people are connecting with

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Speaker 1: the character as opposed to like your hairstyle.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, the job is to create a human, a

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Speaker 2: whole human. It was a little tighty. It was a struggle.

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Speaker 2: We were struggling to prove ourselves. We were struggling to

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Speaker 2: prove ourselves to the network and all of it. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we could keep talking about it where we could just

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Speaker 2: reboot the reboot.

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Speaker 1: We're not talking about episodes. We're not We're not getting

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Speaker 1: any of that promise you that is for the rebate.

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Speaker 2: I want to ask a question, are you excited about

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Speaker 2: your new endeavor?

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Speaker 1: You know, after I recorded the first episode, I said

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Speaker 1: to Chris on the phone, I was like, who needs therapy?

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Speaker 1: Like there's something very cathartic about doing a podcast, and

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Speaker 1: especially I think when it's like my type of podcast,

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Speaker 1: where you're you're unpacking your life, you're basically, you know,

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Speaker 1: looking at everything and in real time going oh, you know,

354
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:23,960
Speaker 1: maybe I was at fault, maybe I did this, maybe

355
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Speaker 1: I did that, or maybe this person needs to take responsibility.

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Speaker 1: I think it is giving me and going to give

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Speaker 1: me in the future everything that I would be spending

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Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty dollars an hour for absolutely, so

359
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,000
Speaker 1: I'm very excited about that I'm saving money. Yeah, I

360
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Speaker 1: bought a new pair of boots today because I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: I saved saved money on therapy, So I like it

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Speaker 1: so far. I also love the fact that, like you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm in sweatpants and slippers.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely can't beat it.

365
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Speaker 1: It's an interesting question. I don't think anybody's ever asked

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Speaker 1: us this, And like you and I do a lot

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Speaker 1: of convince together and fans get to ask us questions

368
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,399
Speaker 1: on the panel and they're usually you know about like

369
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Speaker 1: certain episodes like what would you say? The similarities are

370
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 1: between us and the differences between us because people really

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Speaker 1: look at us as like sisters, So it's it's kind

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Speaker 1: of an interesting question similarities.

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Speaker 2: We definitely have the same sense of humor, Like when

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Speaker 2: we did the travel show. We could entertain each other

375
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Speaker 2: and we don't really need other people really don't. I

376
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Speaker 2: don't know. We were just always terribly compatible. I mean

377
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Speaker 2: I basically lived with you and Rob for quite a while.

378
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Speaker 3: I don't know how.

379
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 2: Rob feels about that still to this day, but we

380
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,399
Speaker 2: sort of ate the same, We traveled the same, we

381
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 2: hated people, the same gun bar fights the same.

382
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Speaker 4: Made the same mistakes, right right, right, Yeah, you know,

383
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 4: we just had, you know, very similar personalities.

384
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Speaker 2: It's different, you know, we've come from very different childhoods,

385
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,160
Speaker 2: but we're just very similar. We do holidays the same,

386
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Speaker 2: and there's not a lot of people I can say

387
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 2: that about.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah. I think one of my favorite trips of

389
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Speaker 1: ours that is actually not in the travel show is

390
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Speaker 1: when my parents, you and I went to Ireland.

391
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Speaker 2: That really should have been the travel show. I know

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Speaker 2: what we were thinking.

393
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 1: I should have. The network didn't want to pay for

394
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Speaker 1: the whole you know, overseas trips. But that was definitely

395
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Speaker 1: one of the most fun vacations I've ever had. Just

396
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Speaker 1: you and I like walking around Ireland and sneaking out

397
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Speaker 1: of castles so that my parents sensius sneaking out. I. Meanwhile,

398
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,479
Speaker 1: they were watching us from like their tower room, and

399
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:50,160
Speaker 1: we were.

400
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Speaker 3: Of age people, we were still.

401
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 1: Of age, and we got caught because one of the

402
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Speaker 1: castles was you had to take the little the castle ferry.

403
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Speaker 1: But we got back too late. Oops, how did we

404
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 1: get back?

405
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:05,960
Speaker 3: We had to call a guy who knew a guy

406
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 3: that had the thing that.

407
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 2: Came across the moat thing and we that were too

408
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 2: loud coming in apparently, and your mother was up and

409
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 2: your mother was waiting, and it still feels terrible, Yeah,

410
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:18,880
Speaker 2: it really does.

411
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Speaker 3: Was very upset with.

412
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,919
Speaker 1: Me, she was, she was upset with us both. She

413
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 1: was like, it's dangerous. Two girls got we were And

414
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,639
Speaker 1: meanwhile we just went to like the neighborhood pub.

415
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 2: We went to the pub like as one does.

416
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we had a blast, like hanging out with

417
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 1: all the Irish people and trying to mimic their accents

418
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 1: and getting to know them and you know, hearing like

419
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Speaker 1: the story of Ireland from people who actually live there.

420
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Speaker 3: There's some great photos from that night.

421
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 1: Do you have them? You have to say, I do.

422
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 2: I do.

423
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: I actually don't have that many photos from Ireland, but

424
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Speaker 1: I need some. I recently realized that I do not

425
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 1: have nearly as many photos as I thought I did,

426
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 1: like just saved up over the years. I don't know

427
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 1: what happened unless unless they always included like a boyfriend

428
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: and I was mad and like break them up.

429
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 3: They're probably in storage somewhere.

430
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 1: I have found like some photos where it's like ripped

431
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 1: in half, so I know that there was a guy

432
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 1: that I was dating next to me in the photo,

433
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: but I've now ripped him out of the photo. But

434
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 1: I apparently really liked how I looked in the photos,

435
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 1: so I didn't want to just throw it out completely,

436
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: which is hysterical. There's quite a few of those. And

437
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,439
Speaker 1: then I have to like try to backtrack and like

438
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 1: by my outfit to figure out who was in the

439
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:41,680
Speaker 1: photo with me, like fashion determined who I was with. So, yeah,

440
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 1: we had Ireland, so we're similar. How are we different

441
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 1: besides like our childhood.

442
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 2: You drive a lot faster than I do.

443
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 1: I'm an aggressive driver, Yes you are.

444
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 3: You're a lot how do I say, not like a

445
00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 3: neat freak. But you're much more tidy.

446
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 2: Then I am. Yes, I do admire your drive, though

447
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 2: I can see keeping things in order.

448
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, see that.

449
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 2: That wood thing behind her has to be at a

450
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:17,400
Speaker 2: certain diagonal on the counter, and it cannot be five

451
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 2: degrees this way or that way.

452
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 3: It has to be this way that one right there.

453
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 1: Just say when I place things, yeah, I like them,

454
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: Like I take my time placing stuff in my home

455
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 1: and because it's my sanctuary, right it's where I feel

456
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 1: the safest. So if I've spent you know, months just

457
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 1: looking for the right piece, and I then spend hours

458
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 1: figuring out exactly where it goes and at what angle,

459
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 1: and somebody comes in and moves it, it tweaks my

460
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: brain a little bit. But I'm not OCD. But I

461
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 1: do like things very much in order. I'm very very

462
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: like you know.

463
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,239
Speaker 2: If you had to look to check to see if

464
00:25:59,240 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 2: it was right.

465
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: I did, I'm like craning my neck on it is

466
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 1: it right?

467
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,199
Speaker 2: So that that I will say, you're much more okay

468
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 2: with diagonals and angles where I have to have everything

469
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 2: straight or drives me insane. I will be OCD about

470
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 2: that this bag is crooked. I'm gonna straighten it. So

471
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 2: you you were happy just putting like furnitures and desks

472
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 2: on angles, and I'm.

473
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: Just like, I should do that only because everything else

474
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,479
Speaker 1: is straight lines. Like I'm not the person that enjoys

475
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: a lot of arches and any of that. Like my

476
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: house is, as you know, it's very square or rectangular,

477
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 1: straight straight straight lines. So then I like to soften

478
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: those straight lines by moving furniture at like a slightly

479
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: off kilter angle.

480
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that tweaks my brain I think we're

481
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 5: both I wouldn't say that we're germophobes, but I do

482
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 5: think we're both very conscious.

483
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: Of that, trying to be sure, Oh we're going for

484
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: how we're different. I think from my point of view,

485
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 1: those differences have become less as you've gotten older.

486
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, No, I blame you for everything exactly when

487
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 2: I tell people to fuck off. Now, I'm like, that's.

488
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 3: Shit, is fult. I don't know where that came from.

489
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 1: You know, you're one of many who blame me for everything,

490
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 1: So it's all good. I've heard it a lot lately. Yeah,

491
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I think like in the beginning with Charm,

492
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: for instance, you were much more of a people pleaser,

493
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:44,199
Speaker 1: a producer pleaser. You had your thoughts, you had your opinions,

494
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: but you were far quicker to acquiesce than I was.

495
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 3: Oh definitely. I mean I barely made it there, so

496
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 3: I had to be like, okay, sure.

497
00:27:55,680 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 1: But then you started finding your voice for me. Your

498
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: voice really started becoming much more strong in the third season,

499
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: like you were gaining it in the second season, but

500
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: by the third season, I felt like you had your

501
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 1: voice and you were willing to use it, you know,

502
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 1: for the good of the show, like it was always

503
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:22,360
Speaker 1: about improving and better scripts or you know, people actually

504
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: showing up and doing their job and not complaining about it.

505
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 2: I mean, it was very important to me and I

506
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 2: don't know how. I mean, it always was to both

507
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 2: of us. It was always very important and even to

508
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 2: elstit in the beginning, because here we were these like

509
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 2: you know, these child performers coming out of those trenches,

510
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 2: trying to have some sense of normalcy as grown ups

511
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 2: and wanting this not to fail. You know, we had

512
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 2: that in common in the beginning that we all wanted

513
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 2: this to be good and wanted this to be sort

514
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 2: of like our foray and to being grown up actors

515
00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 2: and to be taken seriously. And that's you know, that's

516
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 2: a tough jump for kid actors to suddenly, you know,

517
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 2: be able to do this and be suddenly women. You know,

518
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 2: because we were still young. We were surrounded by a

519
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 2: team of men aside from Connie. Really in the beginning, yeah,

520
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 2: you know, we had something to prove for sure, and

521
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 2: so by season three it's like you have to believe

522
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 2: in yourself. You have to find your footing or you're

523
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,959
Speaker 2: going to just constantly look like you don't know what

524
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 2: you're doing.

525
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: And we cared like we cared about the work. We

526
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: cared about what we were putting out there, and we

527
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: cared about like you and I were always like towards

528
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: the beginning, we were like, yeah, well we'll stay here.

529
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: We may be exhausted, we may be tired. The crew

530
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: wants to go home. We want to go home, but listen,

531
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: if we don't have it, we don't have it, We'll

532
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: like stay and we'll get it because we cared about

533
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: what was going on that screen.

534
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and very dedicated.

535
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 2: And I don't know where that came from necessarily, but

536
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 2: it was just, you know, a dedication to making it

537
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 2: right and making it well.

538
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 3: And it's a work ethic that I I don't think

539
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 3: you can really manufacture.

540
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: It is work ethic, and it's it's work ethic along

541
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: with being grateful, right right, I think that we were

542
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: both always very grateful. Gratefulness does not equate to not

543
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: having an opinion. You can still be grateful and look

544
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 1: and say, you know what, this script is not great,

545
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: let's do a polish on it, or you know, this

546
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: doesn't feel natural to me, this relationship on this show,

547
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: like between these two characters, isn't working. Like, you can

548
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: still have an opinion, but be grateful for being there.

549
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: You just want your opinion valued and heard right and respected,

550
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: even if it gets rejected at the end of the day.

551
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: As long as it's respected and heard, it's okay.

552
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 4: Now.

553
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 2: Many times, you know, and I've been I've been accused

554
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 2: of taking the show too seriously at times, and I've

555
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 2: been accused of being too involved at times.

556
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 3: You know.

557
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 2: There were times that I watched dailies every day and

558
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 2: I would call the editors and go, why did you

559
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 2: use that take and not that take? Like I was

560
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 2: overly involved at a certain point, but it just made

561
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 2: because it mattered to me.

562
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 3: I didn't want it to suck.

563
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean we both always talked about like

564
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: the Comparison, a sort of practical magic, which was one

565
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: of our favorite movies.

566
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a great book. It was my one

567
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 2: of my first favorite books.

568
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: I remember we referenced that movie a lot on occasion,

569
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: a lot, and on occasion to our producers and to

570
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: our writers, like, okay, look at how they did this.

571
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:36,479
Speaker 1: Particularly I think with the like CGI. Yeah, because our

572
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: CGI was.

573
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 2: It was limited, limited, rid of time it was what

574
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 2: we could afford at the time, for sure.

575
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: Yeah it was. It was not great, but I mean

576
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: it was pretty successful. Like I think everybody was kind

577
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: of I think the network and spelling people, they were

578
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: all like, wow, this actually like premiered well, and it

579
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 1: kind of kicked off well, and then like the audience

580
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: fell in love with the concept and fell in love

581
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: with the characters and the sisters, and we were able

582
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: to connect people in a way that they weren't connecting before.

583
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a big It was a big premiere

584
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 2: for the WB at the time, and I remember Aaron

585
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 2: saying it was the first time they had gotten a

586
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 2: full season pickup so early. The first season went pretty well,

587
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 2: and that was the only time that that happened, because

588
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 2: every season after that they sort of made us wait

589
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 2: for it and we never knew if we were going

590
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 2: to be.

591
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 3: Canceled or not.

592
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: For me, the way that things were on nine O

593
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: two one zero and like standing up for myself against

594
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: all the men, and I think that got carried over

595
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: into Charm to a certain extent because it was still

596
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: the same group of producers, right, and it was still

597
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: producers who they started getting a little bit better about

598
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:04,719
Speaker 1: pretending to listen, but they weren't really listening. And whenever

599
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: I would say something that was constructive about trying to

600
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: improve the show or about my character, they would kind

601
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: of like go uh huh uh huh uh huh uh

602
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 1: huh and then smile and walk away. And then I

603
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: remember that like my attorney or my agent or my

604
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 1: manager would always get a phone call being like, you know,

605
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: Shannon needs to stay in her lane, and you know,

606
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: she's an actress and that's her job, and she can't

607
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: tell us how to run a show. And I was

608
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: always like, my god, like when when do things become collaborative?

609
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: Things were very collaborative with like Kevin Smith and Maul

610
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: Ratz and a bunch of the other other things that

611
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: I did. So going back into this situation was spelling,

612
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: it was like, so things haven't really changed that much,

613
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 1: like they're not evolving with the times. And and I

614
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: will say again that we were We were definitely ahead

615
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: of the time of like the women's movement that has

616
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,719
Speaker 1: happened in the business. We were sort of pushing for

617
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: our voices to be heard. We were you know, rebelling

618
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,399
Speaker 1: against like the patriarchy, if you will, like the men

619
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 1: who just wanted us to stay in a box and

620
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 1: wear skin tight clothes with our boobs hanging out and

621
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: you know, keeping our hair a certain way and all

622
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: of that stuff. Like we were sort of already pushing

623
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 1: up against that and saying no, no, no, we have

624
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 1: a little bit more to offer than all of that,

625
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: So let us bring everything that's within us to the show, Like,

626
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,760
Speaker 1: let us be the creatives and the talent that you hired.

627
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 1: You need to trust us at some point.

628
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, which wasn't by design though, it just happened organically,

629
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,399
Speaker 2: and I think the fact that we knew each other

630
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 2: from before and we kind of stuck together and creatively

631
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 2: we wanted more, and we wanted better, and we wanted

632
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 2: more realistic portrayals of women. You know, there were just

633
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 2: sometimes where like the dialogue just didn't sound right. It

634
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 2: didn't sound like a person our age would talk like that,

635
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 2: so it needed to Well it was because you know,

636
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 2: I'm forty five year old, fifty year old guy was

637
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 2: writing it. So it was like, you know, it had

638
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 2: all of that happened organically. I don't remember ever feeling

639
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,839
Speaker 2: like we were being a pain in the ass. You know,

640
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,959
Speaker 2: it's it's I couldn't have done it any other way.

641
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 2: I couldn't have just been a puppet, like that's just

642
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 2: not in me.

643
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: But I definitely looked back on all of that and think,

644
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 1: you know, we we were some of the very first

645
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: trailblazers in sort of petitioning, if you will, for women

646
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: to have a voice that actually mattered in a male

647
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 1: dominated business and certainly in a very male dominated set

648
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 1: with producers who were used to things being done a

649
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 1: certain way and keeping their actresses, you know, sort of

650
00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: in a box.

651
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 3: We were show ponies for sure. We were show companies.

652
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 3: And I think people get confused when they see so

653
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 3: many women writers un charmed and say, well, there were

654
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 3: women behind the scene, but there wasn't for us. The

655
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 3: only producers we got to see were spelling producers, which

656
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 3: were all men. And you know, the writers had a

657
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 3: writer's room that was all the way in Hollywood, very

658
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 3: far removed from us, and they didn't get to visit,

659
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 3: They didn't get out much. That room stayed in the

660
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 3: erin spelling building by design, and you know, there wasn't

661
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,359
Speaker 3: you know, women writers on set aside from Connie. And

662
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 3: you know, eventually we saw how that went too you know,

663
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 3: she was pushed out creatively, financially and in all the

664
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 3: ways of the show that she created based on her

665
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 3: own sisters by the group of guys.

666
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 1: I also don't remember that many female writers in the

667
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 1: first three seasons.

668
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 2: That's because they never got out of the building and

669
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:01,479
Speaker 2: you know, they just didn't get to visit a lot.

670
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 3: And also the problem.

671
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 2: Was is that Brad did a polish on every script,

672
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 2: so it didn't matter if we had like a great

673
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 2: script from Daniel or Zach and Chris. It came out

674
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 2: feeling hearing sounding the same because Brad did a polish

675
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 2: on every script. And I was like, how many times

676
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,399
Speaker 2: am I going to say, We're screwed? Every time there

677
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 2: was a We're screwed, it was Brad Kern.

678
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 1: I was like, I know, we're talking about the showrunner, producer,

679
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: Brad Kern, who was an interesting fella, illustrious. Yeah, I

680
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 1: was such a fascinating letter from him that at some

681
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:52,359
Speaker 1: point I'm going to read on this podcast. It's just fantastic.

682
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,479
Speaker 1: It was after I was gone from the show and

683
00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: him experiencing that show without me and a deep, deep

684
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: apology letter of like oh my god, which you know,

685
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: is great. You're like, okay, but you don't want to

686
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: hear it after the fact. You want to hear it,

687
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: you know, you want to be protected in that moment.

688
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: So going back to like us as women, I think

689
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,320
Speaker 1: it was also, you know, three women on a show

690
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 1: supposed to, you know, in its own way being ensemble,

691
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: but I was cast. You know, first, the show was

692
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: originally sold to the WB based on me, so obviously

693
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: that's all that's going to be there. That's just natural.

694
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 1: But once those like magazine covers started happening, and you know,

695
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 1: one person is being asked and the other one isn't

696
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: or you're And I experienced this on nine in two

697
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 1: zero as well, with like the cover Rolling Stone, and

698
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 1: everybody was super mad at me because I did the

699
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: cover Rolling Stone and didn't request everybody else. And I

700
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: was like, okay, it's cover of Rolling Stone. I'm not

701
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 1: saying no to it. And I kind of felt that

702
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: it didn't kind of feel it was happening of the

703
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:19,359
Speaker 1: the competitiveness was kicking in. And I'm not saying with you,

704
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 1: I'm saying with Alyssa and myself that there was a

705
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 1: lack of female support. Oh yeah, And I personally was

706
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 1: never you know, I've had the same publicis for I

707
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: don't even know how long Leslie Sloan and you know,

708
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 1: she could come on the podcast and be like Shannon

709
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 1: never cared about somebody else getting a cover, Like it

710
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 1: just wasn't like in my wheelhouse. And I actually, even

711
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: though it was supposedly good for my career, I we

712
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 1: were working so hard. I was like, like, to then

713
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: go on your weekend and do a photo shoot was

714
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 1: kind of a nightmare to begin to with. But there

715
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 1: was a competitiveness with Alyssa. I heard that she addressed

716
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,320
Speaker 1: it in her book. Obviously I'm never reading her book

717
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 1: because it's sorry, not sorry, so right there, you know,

718
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 1: it tells me like you're not freaking sorry, like why

719
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 1: have you mentioned something in that case? And there was

720
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: also competitiveness about you, which was really interesting of you know,

721
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 1: trying to pull you away from me, and that you

722
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 1: know transpired in that second season, and it was I know,

723
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: for me, it was an incredibly rough season. You know,

724
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 1: you were going through health stuff. You were in the hospital,

725
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: and my dad had been as you know, in and

726
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:46,240
Speaker 1: out of the hospital NonStop, and hospitals scared me to death,

727
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: and I, you know, waited twenty four hours after your

728
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 1: surgery to go and then it wasn't even easy for

729
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 1: me to get in. I was like being told I

730
00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: couldn't even get it by like Alyssa and her mom,

731
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 1: like they were blocking people from seeing you. And at

732
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 1: the time you didn't know. And I remember you texted

733
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: me and were like, dude, are you gonna come to

734
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 1: see me? And I could feel like you're you know,

735
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: your pain of feeling like I had abandoned you, but

736
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 1: I also felt like my anger at the situation of

737
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 1: not being allowed to come see you, and like how

738
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: a sort of family had like swooped in and caused

739
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 1: like this sort of weird divide between the two of

740
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 1: us that then continued throughout season two where I think

741
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 1: I cried every single night of season two. What is

742
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 1: your take on season two? Because it was really interesting

743
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 1: and even go like broad strokes.

744
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:50,919
Speaker 2: Watching season two. I like season two because I feel

745
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 2: like we were more ourselves than anything. I agree, but

746
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 2: you know, there was a lot going on behind the scenes.

747
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 2: I think it was pretty obvious that you know, I

748
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 2: was raised by teenage parents.

749
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 3: I didn't have a big.

750
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 2: Family, and so you're right when a family swooped in

751
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 2: and tried to be, you know, basically adopt me. It

752
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 2: was very seductive for me, and I also wanted, you know,

753
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 2: I wanted everybody to get along. I wanted the show

754
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 2: to be successful, and that was part of that. There

755
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 2: were no angels, there were no demons. We all had

756
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 2: bad days, we all had good days. We all could

757
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 2: have behaved better at certain points, but there was a

758
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 2: lack of awareness of a bigger, broader picture of just being,

759
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:43,359
Speaker 2: like you said, grateful to have a job and to

760
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 2: be doing something that we liked, and to be in

761
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 2: a position of power to do something that we liked

762
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 2: was not something that happens easily or normally or routinely.

763
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 1: Well, we are out of time for today, but there

764
00:42:58,040 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 1: is so much more I want to talk to you

765
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 1: guys about, So everyone, please join me next week for

766
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 1: part two of my interview with Holly Maray Combs. Until

767
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 1: next time,