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Speaker 1: Welcome to Know Your Foe on Colts dot Com and

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Speaker 1: in Death Book. At the upcoming matchup. Here are your host,

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Speaker 1: Casey Valier and former Colts wide receiver Bill Brooks. It

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Speaker 1: is time for the regular season finale edition of Know

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Speaker 1: Your Foe right here on Colts dot Com. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Casey Vallee, joined as always by Ring of Honor wide

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Speaker 1: receiver Bill Brooks. The Colts travel to Jacksonville for the

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Speaker 1: final game of the regular season, and it gets caught

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Speaker 1: off on All Things Jaguars is Mike de Rocco, who

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Speaker 1: covers the Jacks for ESPN. Mike, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for taking some time to talk with us, No problem.

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Speaker 1: How are you guys doing today, How we're doing all right?

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Speaker 1: You know, season finale. I'm sure for the Jags they're

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Speaker 1: looking forward to what's going on in the future, and

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Speaker 1: for the Colts looking for a playoff spot. So a

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Speaker 1: lot writing on this game, you know, definitely from a

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Speaker 1: Colts aspect at continuing this year, but you know, from

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Speaker 1: the Jags perspective, a lot coming here in the next

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Speaker 1: couple you know, weeks to months for sure, And I

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Speaker 1: kind of want to just start with something that we

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Speaker 1: saw last year. You know, you get the number one

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Speaker 1: overall pick and you select Trevor Lawrence. Everybody thought, you know,

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Speaker 1: one of the best prospects coming out. He's definitely had

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Speaker 1: his struggles through his rookie campaign. I know it's really

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Speaker 1: hard just to look at numbers, but how would you

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Speaker 1: evaluate the way Trevor Lawrence has played in his rookie year. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, he'll tell you the same thing. He hasn't

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Speaker 1: played really well. He's played bad at times and pretty

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Speaker 1: darn good at other times, but overall, it's just not

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Speaker 1: been good enough. Seventeen interceptions, which I think leads the NFL.

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Speaker 1: That's just you just can't do it. You got no

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Speaker 1: chance to win games like that. But you know that

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Speaker 1: being said, his rookie season has been just full of

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Speaker 1: drama and distractions with all of the Urban Meyer stuff

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Speaker 1: that's going on, and you take into consideration that they

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Speaker 1: really did nothing to build around him at all, and

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Speaker 1: his receivers are just not very good at all. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's they lose DJ Chark early, Jamal Agnew emerges as

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Speaker 1: a deep guy and he gets hurt. The pass catchers

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Speaker 1: as a whole will lead the NFL with thirty three drops.

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Speaker 1: The offensive line has been really up and down, especially

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Speaker 1: at right tackle. Hi Jawan Taylor's really really struggled. So

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Speaker 1: you add all that in together, and you've got a

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Speaker 1: rookie season like he has ten touchdown pass seventeen picks.

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Speaker 1: It's not been pretty. The hope is for the Jaguars anyway,

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Speaker 1: that they'll make a good hire as Urban Myers replacement,

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Speaker 1: someone that's maybe an offensive minded guy, or at least,

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Speaker 1: you know, find an offensive coordinator that can build a

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Speaker 1: system around this kid. And then it's going to take

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Speaker 1: a year or two before they can go ahead and

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Speaker 1: get some good talent around him to give him really

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Speaker 1: a chance to be successful. Now, one of the things

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Speaker 1: you just mentioned, I mean we talk about, you know,

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Speaker 1: his bare numbers, his statistics, and you mentioned, you know,

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Speaker 1: the offensive line, he's got no weapons. We saw the

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Speaker 1: run game take a hit when Travis Eten was lost

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Speaker 1: for the year. Is it all on that or do

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Speaker 1: you think part of it has been his decision making

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Speaker 1: in those instances. No, his decision making has not been

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Speaker 1: good at times. You look last week three interceptions against

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Speaker 1: the Patriots, the first one he probably could have taken

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Speaker 1: and thrown a little further down the field that was

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Speaker 1: wide open, but yet someone in his face, and he

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Speaker 1: goes to Rock Armstead out there in the flat. The

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Speaker 1: ball bounces off his hand and then it's an interception,

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Speaker 1: so that one's not on him. But the other two

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Speaker 1: were just throws you shouldn't have made. He tried to

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Speaker 1: squeeze a ball in into two you know, a tight

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Speaker 1: spot on the second one, and then the third one

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Speaker 1: he just didn't see the safety. And you know, his

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Speaker 1: decision making has been spotty at times, but you expect

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Speaker 1: that out of a rookie. You know, everyone around here

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Speaker 1: measures him against Mac Jones, who is from Jacksonville, and

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Speaker 1: that's that's unfair because he ended up with Bill Belichick

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Speaker 1: and Josh McDaniels and one of the league's better defenses

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Speaker 1: and a ridiculously stable franchise with a great culture, and

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Speaker 1: Trevor ended up here. So he's made some mistakes and

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Speaker 1: he's not played great, But there's not anyone here, at

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Speaker 1: least organizationally, that is sitting there going, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: we made a mistake. This kid can't play. They still

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Speaker 1: believe he's going to be a fantastic quarterback. He just

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Speaker 1: needs some stability and some help. Now you're talking about

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Speaker 1: that help, I want to talk about the running back situation, Mike. Now,

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Speaker 1: I know James Robinson's on ir but he had another

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Speaker 1: solid year in his second season, and the team also

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Speaker 1: drafted Travis Attn, who missed his rookie season with an injury.

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Speaker 1: Do you see both of these guys in the future

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Speaker 1: plans for the Jaguars. Yeah, you know Robinson is going

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Speaker 1: to come off that torn achilles, so you know that's

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Speaker 1: a long timetable for him. But yeah, I think next

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Speaker 1: year those will be your top two backs. I think

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Speaker 1: the Jags would feel a lot better about that situation

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Speaker 1: though if they had seen anything from Etn because he

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Speaker 1: got hurt in the preseason. They didn't see him in

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Speaker 1: a regular season game, so they really don't know what

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Speaker 1: he can do. But going into the season, you would

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Speaker 1: at least feel pretty comfortable when Robinson comes back, for sure.

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Speaker 1: But I do expect them to address that position in

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Speaker 1: the offseason, whether that's a later round draft pick or

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Speaker 1: in free agency. But those would be their top two

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Speaker 1: for sure. Now, you also mentioned that the wide receiver

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Speaker 1: has some issues would drop passes this past season, and

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Speaker 1: we also know that they don't have that dynamic game

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Speaker 1: breaker on their roster at this moment, and also day

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Speaker 1: Chuck has been on ir But is this a position

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Speaker 1: they need to focus on in free agency or in

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Speaker 1: the upcoming draft to find that dynamic receiver. And also

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Speaker 1: do you think day Chuck will be back in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty two? Absolutely, this needs to be one of their

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Speaker 1: top priorities wide receiver. It's a deep draft for wide receiver,

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Speaker 1: not at number one. Obviously you're probably not going to

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Speaker 1: take one there, but you know it's not as you know, look,

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Speaker 1: Davante Adams is probably getting the franchise tank, so that's

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Speaker 1: not great. Probably not going to end up with um,

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Speaker 1: you know, Chris Godwin either, that's not going to happen.

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Speaker 1: So now you're looking at an Alan Robinson or a

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Speaker 1: Michael Gallup, you know, and Gallup's coming off an ACL pair.

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Speaker 1: So not as many options available in free agency as

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Speaker 1: maybe we all fought there would be at the beginning

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Speaker 1: of the season anyway, But draftwise, it's a really really

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Speaker 1: good draft for wide receivers. It may not have maybe

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Speaker 1: the top high end guy like a Jamar Chase or

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Speaker 1: Justin Jefferson, but it's a really deep group and that's

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Speaker 1: good for the Jags because they have to at least

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Speaker 1: you know, if it's me, I'm signing a guy and

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Speaker 1: I'm drafting at least two in this draft, You've got

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Speaker 1: to build around Trevor Lawrence. I think we saw this

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Speaker 1: year what the addition of Jamar Chase did for Joe Burrow.

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Speaker 1: Everyone wanted them to take the offensive tackle in the

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Speaker 1: first round, and they didn't. They went with the wide

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Speaker 1: receiver and now look at the Bengals their division chants.

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Speaker 1: As for DJ Chark, I do think he'll be back.

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Speaker 1: You know, him going on you know, going out with

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Speaker 1: a broken ankle two gaining three games into the season.

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Speaker 1: He really did show much. So I'm not sure how

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Speaker 1: much interest there will be in him in free agency.

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Speaker 1: So I think that Jaguars could get him back on

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Speaker 1: a reasonable deal for a year or two and that

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Speaker 1: will certainly help. But it had wide receiver has to

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Speaker 1: be a priority for this team, no matter who the

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Speaker 1: head coaches. I want to touch on something you brought up.

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Speaker 1: You said, Alan Robinson's a potential free agent wide receiver

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Speaker 1: that's gonna get pretty big money. How was his departure

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Speaker 1: in Jacksonville the first time. Would they at least look

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Speaker 1: at bringing him back potentially? You think, yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: it's a different regime for sure. Now you know they

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Speaker 1: need a deep guy. Deep speed is probably the biggest

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Speaker 1: issue with their wide receivers, and that's really not Alan Robinson.

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Speaker 1: But Alan Robinson is a contested catch guy and he

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Speaker 1: can get down the field. I saw him do it

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Speaker 1: in his first three seasons here with the with the Jaguars,

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Speaker 1: and he did it pretty darn well. So you know,

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Speaker 1: if you can add an Alan Robinson, that gives you

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Speaker 1: your contested catch guy, you get a couple of young

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Speaker 1: guys in the draft, the speed guy, bring DJ Chark back,

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you might have a little

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Speaker 1: pretty good core wide receivers. Um. You know, the Jaguars

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Speaker 1: just didn't offer Alan Robinson enough money and that that

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Speaker 1: was a huge mistake. And Dave called, well, the GM

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Speaker 1: at the time offered a contract that within sentives would

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Speaker 1: have probably paid him a little bit more than what

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Speaker 1: he got from the Bears. But if you're Alan Robinson,

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Speaker 1: smartly the amount that you can get for sure, and

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Speaker 1: that's what he did. And the Jaguars here will admit

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Speaker 1: that was for one of the biggest mistakes of Dave

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Speaker 1: Calwall's tenure, and he would probably amit that too. We're

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Speaker 1: talking with Mike the Rocco, who covers the Jags for ESPN,

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Speaker 1: switching gears to the defense. I know Josh Allen has

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Speaker 1: been an effective edge rusher, but a guy they took

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Speaker 1: just two years ago and Calevan Chase on it really

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Speaker 1: hasn't lived up to that draft tied to this point.

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Speaker 1: So you know, the Jags looking at potentially the first

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Speaker 1: overall pick and I know there's a handful of names

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Speaker 1: in there, but one of those is an edge rusher.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that's an area they can address when

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Speaker 1: the draft comes? Yeah, you know, it has to be

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Speaker 1: a priority. Josh Allen has been okay as a pass rusher.

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Speaker 1: He's more of a complimentary guy. He's not the guy.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he hasn't had a he hasn't had a

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Speaker 1: sack since the Josh Allen game against the Bills, which

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Speaker 1: is November, so yeah, it's been he's been m ia

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Speaker 1: since then. But you know, Calevan excuse me, u. Thibadeau

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Speaker 1: and Hutchinson are the two top guys that everyone thinks

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Speaker 1: are going to go one or two. But I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: discount Evan Neil, the tackle from Alabama going there with

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Speaker 1: the Jags as well. But they have to the problem

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Speaker 1: with the Jags is, Yeah, they need a wide receiver.

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Speaker 1: That's a big need. They need pass rusher, that's a

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Speaker 1: big need. Um you know, they need a tight end,

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Speaker 1: that's a big need. They need to shore up that

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Speaker 1: offensive line that's a big need. And they need to

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Speaker 1: find some interior defensive lineman that's a big need. Like

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Speaker 1: this froster is so poor that they need stuff everywhere,

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Speaker 1: and that's why it's going to be a multiple year build.

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Speaker 1: And that's why, you know, you just have to prioritize

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Speaker 1: if you exactly what is the strength of this draft,

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Speaker 1: what is what are our needs? And can we can

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Speaker 1: we get one or two positions addressed in this draft?

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Speaker 1: And you know, I think it's not necessarily a top

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Speaker 1: high end group of pass rushers, but I do think

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Speaker 1: like wide receiver at least early anyway, it looks like

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Speaker 1: it's pretty deep, so you know, maybe they can end

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Speaker 1: up doing that and wide receiver at the same time.

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Speaker 1: You know, take the pass rusher first overall or second.

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Speaker 1: If they somehow don't wrap that first pick up and

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Speaker 1: then kind of go from there. But they just have

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Speaker 1: to address so many areas and pass rush. You know,

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Speaker 1: we could argue all day which one's more important for

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Speaker 1: them at this point, pass rusher or wide receiver, But honestly,

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Speaker 1: it's probably one in one a Michael watch. Stay with

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Speaker 1: the defense. Now, Miles Jack and Damian Wilson are good linebackers,

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Speaker 1: score one and two on the team and tackles respectively.

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Speaker 1: What has been your assessment of their play this season? Boy,

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Speaker 1: that the next big play that Miles Jack makes this

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Speaker 1: year will be the first big play he's made this year.

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Speaker 1: He's made a lot of tackles, Damian Wilson's made a

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Speaker 1: lot of tackles, but they just have not made big

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Speaker 1: plays at all. And there's not like I could sit

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Speaker 1: down like nothing jumps out at me when I think

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Speaker 1: of either one of those twos as a big play

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Speaker 1: this year. Now, I could sit down and spend some

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Speaker 1: time and go through it and maybe I find one,

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Speaker 1: but the fact that nothing stands out is a big problem.

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Speaker 1: That's another area that you know they've got to get

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Speaker 1: better at. But they're serviceable with Myles Jack and Damian

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Speaker 1: Wilson inside. You know, Josh Allen's been okay out there

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Speaker 1: at you know, the other linebacker slash defensive end, edge

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Speaker 1: rush guy. But yeah, we mentioned calevan Chase on before

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Speaker 1: he spent he spent time at a strong side linebacker

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Speaker 1: and he's not made an impact either. So it's just

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Speaker 1: when I say that this is a bad roster, guys,

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Speaker 1: it's a bad roster. And the areas that they could

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Speaker 1: you know, like they need to address linebacker, but they

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Speaker 1: could probably cheat on that for a little bit because

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Speaker 1: Miles and Damian Wilson have been okay, you know, and

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Speaker 1: maybe you can put that off for a year or two,

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Speaker 1: but that that area's got to get better too. And

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Speaker 1: Miles has been in a real disappointing year for him

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Speaker 1: because last year you could have argued he should have

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Speaker 1: been in the Pro Bowl. He played really really well,

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Speaker 1: and this year it's just been the opposite. Now, I

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Speaker 1: want to move to the back end of the defense. Now.

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Speaker 1: This pass office in Jacksonville adds some young talent in

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Speaker 1: the secondary with Tyson Campbell and Andre Cisco through the draft,

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Speaker 1: as well as Shaquille Griffin in free You see, is

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Speaker 1: this a group they can feel confident with moving forward. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think in Campbell and Griffin you have your two

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Speaker 1: starting corners. And Campbell's really come on in the last

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Speaker 1: six seven weeks. You know, he had some trouble early

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Speaker 1: in the season. Uh they switched to more zone and

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Speaker 1: he's really kind of flourished there. He's got some issues

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Speaker 1: with ball skills and that that's going to have to

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Speaker 1: be a priority for him to work on in the offseason.

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Speaker 1: But those two give you really good starting corners. You know,

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Speaker 1: the surprise signing was Rudy Ford. They signed as a gunner. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: that was gonna be his main job here and he's

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Speaker 1: a safety and it turns out, but he's a pretty

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Speaker 1: darn good, you know, slot corner, so they kind of

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Speaker 1: lucked into that. So they they're pretty set at their

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Speaker 1: top three corner spots, you know, safety. You know, Cisco

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Speaker 1: didn't get on the field a ton earlier in the season.

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Speaker 1: Now he's been on you know a lot more of

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Speaker 1: the last two or three weeks because of injuries, and

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Speaker 1: he's played okay, So you're you're starting to see some

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Speaker 1: of those young guys get some more playing time. They'll

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Speaker 1: probably have to address that other safety position at some point.

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Speaker 1: Ray Shawn Jenkins, who they signed a free agency has

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Speaker 1: just been okay. But again, that's an area that they

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Speaker 1: can probably cheat with for the next year or so

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Speaker 1: and not have to address it while they fix some

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Speaker 1: of that other stuff. The final couple of things with

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Speaker 1: Mike Rocko covers the Jacks for ESPN, we know the

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Speaker 1: Urban Meyers situation came and went so what are you

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Speaker 1: hearing right now? Who are the guys that are you know,

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Speaker 1: top tier candidates and where does this team go? Is

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Speaker 1: it an offensive or defensive minded head coach? One? You know?

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Speaker 1: Doug Peterson, Jim Caldwell have already interviewed. I think Caldwell

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Speaker 1: would be a fantastic hire for this franchise. Byron Leftwich

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Speaker 1: is going to interview as well. Matt Eberflis is also

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Speaker 1: on the list to interview. Todd Bowles just interviewed the

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Speaker 1: other day. So they're looking at both offensive and defensive guys.

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Speaker 1: And originally I would have said it needs to be

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Speaker 1: an offensive guy, but the bottom line is they need

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Speaker 1: somebody that stay bowl, that's consistent, that the players respect,

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Speaker 1: that will be a good leader and can establish some

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Speaker 1: kind of culture here. And if that's I do think

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Speaker 1: that that fits Jim Caldwell to a t, you know.

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Speaker 1: But if that's Todd Bowles, who they believe. If they

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Speaker 1: believe Todd Bowles is that guy, then hire that guy

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Speaker 1: at this point, Hire the guy that's going to stabilize

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Speaker 1: your franchise because it's an absolute mess, and then just

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Speaker 1: trust that that guy brings the right offensive guy in.

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Speaker 1: But if it's me, like I said, I would jump

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Speaker 1: on Jim called go right away. This franchise just needs

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Speaker 1: somebody like that that can kind of steer the ship.

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Speaker 1: And you're not worrying about any off fielders. You're not

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Speaker 1: worrying about him a kicker in the handstring, You're not

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Speaker 1: worried about him going to a bar and hanging out

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Speaker 1: and dance around with a woman that's not his wife.

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Speaker 1: All that stuff. It impacts the way these guys play.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you got these players trying to prepare for

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Speaker 1: games and they're dealing with all this stuff. It makes

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Speaker 1: an impact. So get a guy that's going to be

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Speaker 1: the steady and calming influence that this franchise hasn't had

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Speaker 1: a while, well, final thing on it. You got the

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Speaker 1: game on Sunday with the Colts winning, you're in Jags,

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Speaker 1: you lose, and you lock up that first overall pick.

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Speaker 1: How important do you think it is to have that.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, if that's that little piece of candy,

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Speaker 1: that first overall pick, to kind of give a little

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Speaker 1: extra juice for that next head coach. Yeah, I don't

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Last year it was abviously way more

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Speaker 1: important because then you had your pick of Trevor Lawrence.

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Speaker 1: You know, you knew who you were going to take.

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Speaker 1: This year, I don't think there's no guy that you

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Speaker 1: have to be at number one to get, So I

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Speaker 1: don't think it's the end of the world for the

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Speaker 1: Jags if they end up with that number two pick.

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Speaker 1: Now that being said, I think the Colts come in

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Speaker 1: here and roll, you know, and the Jags end up

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Speaker 1: with that number one pick. I don't think this game

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Speaker 1: will be close at all. I think this team is

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Speaker 1: there's poor people on this team that will have checked out,

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Speaker 1: and the Colts will be uncomfortably you know, early in

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Speaker 1: the third quarter and they'll just kind of coast to

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Speaker 1: another win. Well, there you go. Mike de Rocco covers

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Speaker 1: the Jags fores and Mike, thanks again so much. Really

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Speaker 1: appreciate the time. Thanks for having me. Guy. Well, it's

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Speaker 1: the season finale in Jacksonville against the Jags on Sunday

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Speaker 1: for the Colts. A win and the season continues into

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Speaker 1: the playoffs and if that happens, we'll be back next

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Speaker 1: week to get you up to date on who that

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Speaker 1: opponent will be for the opening weekend of the playoffs.

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Speaker 1: For Bill Brooks, I'm Casey Valie, Bill Colts