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Speaker 1: Hi, everybody.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from Packers dot Com.

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Speaker 2: I am Mike Spoffor, joined as always by my trusted

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Speaker 2: colleague West and Hodkoitz. We're coming to you here from

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Speaker 2: our studios at lambeau Field, Wes. A few days removed

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Speaker 2: from Thursday Night Football at lambeau Field, and it was

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Speaker 2: not an enjoyable evening for the Packers. The final score

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Speaker 2: thirty four to twenty. The Detroit Lions come in and

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Speaker 2: take over first place in the NFC North, and quite frankly,

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Speaker 2: there was not a lot that went right for the

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Speaker 2: Packers in this game. It got off to a rough start,

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Speaker 2: and other than a brief interlude in the third quarter

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Speaker 2: with a potential comeback being mounted, this was a game

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Speaker 2: that the Packers just got beat by a better team.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it happened quick and fast. One of the

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Speaker 3: things you and I talked about a lot, a lot

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Speaker 3: last week at Nauseum is the fact that Packers need

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Speaker 3: to set the tone early. Now they kind of did that.

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Speaker 3: You know, you come out and they get the TfL

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Speaker 3: on the first play, the stop on the first play,

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Speaker 3: you get him into third and passing and Rudy Ford

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Speaker 3: picks off Jared Goff, Right, everything's looking really solid. Unfortunately

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Speaker 3: Green Bay's offense not able to do anything with the opportunity.

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Speaker 3: You still bang in the field goal, but you don't

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Speaker 3: get as many points out of that as you would

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Speaker 3: have liked off a turnover in their territory, and then

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Speaker 3: after that, the Lions offense just got rolling in time

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Speaker 3: and time again, Mike, I talked about it. I don't

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Speaker 3: care what Jared Goff stats look like. I don't care

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Speaker 3: what the passer rating reads. If you allow him to

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Speaker 3: get comfortable in a game and allow them to run

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Speaker 3: their offense the run to set up the play action,

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Speaker 3: it is going to be a long afternoon for you.

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Speaker 3: Green Bay, as you mentioned, kind of rallied again coming

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Speaker 3: out of the halftime break, but going down twenty four

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Speaker 3: on answer to end the first half, it's not a

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Speaker 3: recipe for success.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: The Packers' offense just really struggled for the duration of

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Speaker 2: the first half. Quite frankly, in this game, they want

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Speaker 2: five consecutive possessions without getting a first down. One of

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Speaker 2: those was a I believe it was first play of

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Speaker 2: the drive interception that set up the Lions for a

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Speaker 2: short field and a touchdown, and a Packers defense that

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Speaker 2: was struggling just kept getting sent back out on the

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Speaker 2: field right away with no break, with no chance to regroup,

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Speaker 2: with no real opportunity to figure out how to turn

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Speaker 2: the tide in this game. And neither side for the

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Speaker 2: Packers was able to turn the tide. And you know,

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Speaker 2: as Matt Lafleur likes to say, you have to give

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Speaker 2: the opponent credit. The Lions. The Lions were better up

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Speaker 2: front on both sides of the ball, the Lions defensive

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Speaker 2: line and the Lions offensive line. That's where Detroit took

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Speaker 2: command of this game and then for the most part

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Speaker 2: kept command of it. I think what was kind of

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Speaker 2: funny when you think about it, and funny is not

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Speaker 2: the right word, but the fact that when the Packers

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Speaker 2: did rally in the third quarter, they got early in

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Speaker 2: the four fourth quarter, they get a second touchdown, It's

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Speaker 2: twenty seven to seventeen, there's about fourteen minutes left in

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Speaker 2: the game, you're down by ten points. The Packers were

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Speaker 2: actually in a better position than they were against the

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Speaker 2: Saints the previous week, when they were down seventeen with

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Speaker 2: well under fourteen minutes to go. But the difference in

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Speaker 2: this one was two major differences. One, the Lions, as

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Speaker 2: I said, were just so stout upfront on both Lions

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Speaker 2: that they kept command of the game. And the Lions,

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Speaker 2: unlike the Saints, did not lose their starting quarterback to injury.

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Speaker 2: And when the Lions needed to have a drive to

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Speaker 2: put the game away, they came up with it. And now, yes,

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Speaker 2: it was going to be a field goal and it

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Speaker 2: turned into a touchdown because of the penalty on kay

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Speaker 2: Walker and all that, but the Lions still they took

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Speaker 2: a ton of time off the clock in the fourth quarter.

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Speaker 2: They were going to add points to the drive. That

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Speaker 2: was something that the Saints were unable to do. And

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Speaker 2: the Packers kept the momentum all the way throughout the

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Speaker 2: Lions just the Lions proved in many many ways in

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Speaker 2: this game that they are the team to beat in

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Speaker 2: the NFC North.

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Speaker 1: Moving forward for.

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Speaker 3: Now, the Detroit Lions, all five of their longest plays

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Speaker 3: in this game happened in the first fifteen minutes. That

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Speaker 3: was the biggest thing that stood out to me on paper.

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Speaker 3: Jared Goff was incredibly effective in the first half and

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Speaker 3: they were able to generate points off that they didn't

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Speaker 3: just get field goals, they scored touchdowns. Then you go

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Speaker 3: to the second half and they effectively ran the four

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Speaker 3: minute offense for the better part of thirty minutes. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and David Montgomery gave you the quintessential like Eddie George

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Speaker 3: type game where it's thirty two carries, one hundred and

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Speaker 3: twenty one yards, three point eight yards per carry. And

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Speaker 3: while those numbers might not pop off the screen at

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Speaker 3: you in terms of what is average yards per carry were,

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Speaker 3: they continually moved the chains. They kept themselves into second

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Speaker 3: and third in manageables and Green Bay just was not

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Speaker 3: able to stop it from there. And actually some of

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Speaker 3: Montgomery's better runs than happened in that fourth quarter when

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Speaker 3: Green Bay's defense started to tire out a little bit.

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Speaker 3: This is gonna be an issue here for green Bay

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Speaker 3: in that they need to find ways to start faster,

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Speaker 3: because what happens is, as we talked about last week,

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Speaker 3: when you start that slowly, it's not that you just

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Speaker 3: fall behind and now you have to play catch up.

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Speaker 3: You're allowing the opponent to dictate the pace of the game.

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Speaker 3: Dan Campbell's teams, Mike, even when they were a three

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Speaker 3: win ball club, they did a good job of kind

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Speaker 3: of pulling the opposition into the mud and making them

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Speaker 3: play a hard nosed football game. They did it in

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Speaker 3: this one. I was so incredibly impressed by Aiden Hutchinson.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's a lot of issues Green Bay was

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Speaker 3: dealing with, you know, injuries were a big part of

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Speaker 3: this game on the short week, But Aiden Hutchinson, for

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Speaker 3: as much as we watched him, and him coming off

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Speaker 3: of a Defensive Player of the Week award, the guy

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Speaker 3: is versatile but impactful at multiple positions. I don't know

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Speaker 3: if I've ever seen a guy that goes what six '

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Speaker 3: five two in the seventies to and you can put

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Speaker 3: him at a three nose tech and he looks like

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Speaker 3: he's a you know, Aaron Donald inside. How he's able

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Speaker 3: to move guys a lot of edge rushers. You got

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Speaker 3: to kind of pick your poison there. Zadarius did it

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Speaker 3: to an extent, although a lot of it was kind

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Speaker 3: of selling out for the to get after the quarterback.

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Speaker 3: Hutchinson can do it all. And I just feel like

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Speaker 3: since he's been infused in this Detroit defense and as

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Speaker 3: he's emerged over the last year calendar year, that Detroit's

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Speaker 3: defense has gone along with him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're building They're building that defense around Hutchinson, and

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Speaker 2: it's not as though they don't have other good players.

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Speaker 2: But you know, the Aaron Donald comparison isn't totally out

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Speaker 2: of bounds here. I mean, no, they're not the same player,

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Speaker 2: and Aaron Donald does not I would even say Donald

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Speaker 2: maybe doesn't move around quite as much as as Hutchinson does.

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Speaker 2: Right now with the Lions. Now, they did Hutchinson's two sixty,

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Speaker 2: by the way, they didn't do that with Hutchinson as

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Speaker 2: much as a rookie. But you can see as he's

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Speaker 2: as he's getting his NFL legs under him and you know,

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Speaker 2: becoming the dominant player that he's expected to be as

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Speaker 2: one of the top picks in the draft of the

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Speaker 2: year he comes out. The Lions are using him. The

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Speaker 2: Lions are using him in ways that dictate to try

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Speaker 2: to dictate what the opposing offense is going to do.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned the Packers need needing to start faster, and

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Speaker 2: I totally agree with you. I mean, with where the

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Speaker 2: Packers offense has been these last two games in terms

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Speaker 2: of how the first half, the first three quarters went

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Speaker 2: against the Saints, the first two quarters went against the Lions.

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Speaker 2: It's not a recipe for success. It can't it can't continue.

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Speaker 2: But I'll say this too, even if you're not going

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Speaker 2: to be able to find a rhythm offensively, like really

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Speaker 2: early in the game, you have to at least be

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Speaker 2: able to have an answer, to have something that's going

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Speaker 2: to stem the tide sooner before you get into these

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Speaker 2: massive deficits. Be down seventeen against the Saints that proved

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Speaker 2: to be surmountable. The Packers were able to come back

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Speaker 2: from that, but down by twenty four against the Lions

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Speaker 2: before your offense can can find itself. You're just you know,

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Speaker 2: it's going to take a miracle to be able to

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Speaker 2: be able to do that. And there are going to

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Speaker 2: be fits and starts and everything with the first year

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Speaker 2: starting quarterback and all the youth the Packers have on offense.

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Speaker 2: Everybody understands that, but boy, you've got to be able

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Speaker 2: to put something together. You have to have an answer.

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Speaker 1: You have to have a.

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Speaker 2: Response to the adversity sooner, even if it doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: you've got it figured out and okay, here we go

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Speaker 2: into a rhythm, but you've got to have some kind

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Speaker 2: of an answer to stem the tide. Before the snowball

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Speaker 2: starts rolling too far down the hill.

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Speaker 3: Well, and it goes back to the complimentary football thing.

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Speaker 3: And I know some people in inbox kind of push

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Speaker 3: back on that. Well, they said, that's team football. It's true.

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Speaker 3: Whatever you can throw any kind of you know, definition

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Speaker 3: descriptor on it that you want. It's about all three

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Speaker 3: phases kind of picking themselves up and if if one

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Speaker 3: isn't quite hitting all the notes, somebody else, for at

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Speaker 3: least the time, being able to set the tone. Green

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Speaker 3: Bay just struggled in this thing because what happened was

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Speaker 3: even when they were defending the run well early, you

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Speaker 3: give up the forty yard er to Khalif Raymond, you

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Speaker 3: have some of these downfield opportunities come to fruition for

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Speaker 3: the Lions. And then when you do get in the

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Speaker 3: red area, when you do end up having these ends

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Speaker 3: of the drive scenarios, they weren't able to get off

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Speaker 3: the field. You weren't able to contain those to three points.

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Speaker 3: So where a situations where you could have been nine

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Speaker 3: to three, twelve to three, whatever, it suddenly becomes twenty

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Speaker 3: seven to three, and now you're kind of having to

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Speaker 3: figure out where you're going to be at in the

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Speaker 3: second half. I give Jordan Love a lot of credit

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Speaker 3: the fact that Green Bay again showed the mental fortitude

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Speaker 3: and toughness to come out in the second half in

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Speaker 3: battle and not just kind of curl up. They kept swinging.

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Speaker 3: But as John Runyan was talking about in the locker

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Speaker 3: room with all of us afterwards, that's just you can't

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Speaker 3: do that to yourself. You can't put yourself in those spots.

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Speaker 3: You can't expect to have a monumental comeback every single week.

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Speaker 3: They did against the Saints, but you're probably facing a

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Speaker 3: better team in the Detroit Lions, and they're gonna make

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Speaker 3: you pay for it.

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Speaker 2: I think that's what stood out to me is just

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Speaker 2: the Lions showed, even though they hit a lull in

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Speaker 2: the third quarter, the Lions just showed they're a much

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Speaker 2: better team than the Saints. I mean, yes, it would

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Speaker 2: it would have been very interesting and very exciting if

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Speaker 2: Jordan Love had gotten the ball back again in the

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Speaker 2: fourth quarter and the Packers were only down by ten,

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Speaker 2: where then you have a chance to get it to

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Speaker 2: a one score game and maybe there's still enough time

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Speaker 2: on the clock, because as we know, anything can happen.

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Speaker 2: But the Lions were just too good. They built, they

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Speaker 2: built a big lead, the Packers never got within one score,

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Speaker 2: and the Lions put the game away when they needed to.

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Speaker 2: The big topic of discussion, of course, probably the biggest

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Speaker 2: topic of discussion right now with regard to the Packers

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Speaker 2: is what are they going to do about the run defense.

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Speaker 2: The Lions rushed for two hundred and eleven yards, the

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Speaker 2: exact same total that the Atlanta Falcons had rushed for

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Speaker 2: two games prior. The Packers are really struggling.

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Speaker 1: In that area.

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Speaker 2: Matt Lafleur had suggested after the game on Thursday night

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Speaker 2: and again on Friday, They're going to look at some

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Speaker 2: schematic changes. They're going to look at, you know, roles

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Speaker 2: and responsibilities for certain players and whatnot. I'm not sure

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Speaker 2: exactly what that means. We'll have to see. I personally,

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Speaker 2: and I wrote this an insider inbox, I don't think

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Speaker 2: it's going to be some sort of a wholesale change.

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Speaker 2: I think it comes down to being more mindful of

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Speaker 2: trying to take away the run in certain situations where

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Speaker 2: you try to dictate to the offense. Okay, we're not

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Speaker 2: going to line up in a way that's going to

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Speaker 2: invite you to run the ball, So I think it

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Speaker 2: could end up being more situational, but that's just a

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Speaker 2: guess on my part. Whatever, whatever it is, the Packers

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Speaker 2: have to start defending the run better because all they've

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Speaker 2: done through defensively through the first four games of this

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Speaker 2: season is with thirteen games to go, they're inviting teams

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Speaker 2: to continue to pound the run at them because they

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Speaker 2: haven't proven that they can stop it on a consistent base.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and where Atlanta did a lot of the stretch stuff.

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Speaker 3: You know, now you saw David Montgomery hitting him a

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Speaker 3: little bit up the middle. I mean, I was really

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Speaker 3: super impressed by Montgomery, the fact that this guy was

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Speaker 3: coming off the thigh injury. He was actually questionable to

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Speaker 3: play in this game, and not only does he play,

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Speaker 3: they just continually feed him. I don't know if that

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Speaker 3: was the smartest approach to handle a guy that's had

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Speaker 3: some injury history.

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Speaker 2: But they're thirty two carries coming off of a coming

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Speaker 2: off of a thigh injury.

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Speaker 1: He was a workhorse nine game, like.

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Speaker 3: You and I talked about. I mean, Gibbs is super talented,

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Speaker 3: but you really don't know if you can trust him

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Speaker 3: as much with the pass pro stuff and that's going

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Speaker 3: to be big with the play action game and whatnot.

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Speaker 3: So they felt like they needed to run Montgomery. You

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Speaker 3: saw what happened when he wasn't out there for them

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Speaker 3: change the complexion of their offense. There was a reason

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Speaker 3: why they went out and got him and felt like

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Speaker 3: he'd be a better fit for this thing than when

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Speaker 3: they had Jamal Williams and DeAndre Swift. That being said,

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Speaker 3: for green Bay's standpoint, they have to find ways to

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Speaker 3: consistently get the guy down on first contact. You can't

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Speaker 3: get them either running into the second level free. You

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Speaker 3: have to be able to have guys coming to the ball.

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Speaker 3: Joe Berry is right. It's not just on one player

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Speaker 3: or one position or one phase. It is about everybody

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Speaker 3: collectively coming together. But the thing that, as I wrote

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Speaker 3: an insider inbox, that's the most disconcerting Montgomery, Gibbs, and

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Speaker 3: Robinson they didn't have these performances against Green Bay because

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Speaker 3: they knocked off an eighty yard touchdown run. They didn't

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Speaker 3: even really have a run past twenty yards. It was

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Speaker 3: just consistent needling that sort of worked green Bay down.

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Speaker 3: You have to find a way early on in these

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Speaker 3: football games to have that answer.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's the biggest challenge for the Packers

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Speaker 2: defense moving forward, is trying to trying to come up

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Speaker 2: with a way to change the opponent's mentality because you

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Speaker 2: look at this game now, as Joe Berry said, you're

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Speaker 2: not gonna necessarily be defending forty plus runs on a

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Speaker 2: weekly basis. The Lions ended up running the ball forty

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Speaker 2: two times. But watch when you watch the film is

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Speaker 2: it is maddeningly frustrating to see how many times the

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Speaker 2: Packers do play the run well, but they can't do

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Speaker 2: it on a consistent enough basis. I mean, I've put

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Speaker 2: this statistic in a couple of stories that I've written.

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Speaker 2: You look at those forty two runs for the Detroit Lions.

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Speaker 2: Take out the three short touchdown runs which were all

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Speaker 2: three yards or less. Take out the kneel down at

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Speaker 2: the end of the game. There were fifteen standard running

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Speaker 2: plays in that game where the Packers held the Lions

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Speaker 2: to two yards or less, teen times two yards or less,

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Speaker 2: and another six that were three yard runs. So that's

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Speaker 2: twenty one of the runs are three yards or less.

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Speaker 2: But what is happening on so many of the other

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Speaker 2: ones is six yards, eight yards twelve or thirteen yards,

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Speaker 2: you start getting into the explosive run category even though

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Speaker 2: it's not fifty or sixty yards down the field, and

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Speaker 2: it's because the Packers are giving those up so often.

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Speaker 2: To me, it goes back to you're just inviting the

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Speaker 2: opponent to continue to run the ball against you and

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Speaker 2: to try to pound you into submission to the extent

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Speaker 2: that the defense gets worn out and then when you're

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Speaker 2: looking for though you're looking for that stop in the

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Speaker 2: fourth quarter, it's really hard to come by because they've

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Speaker 2: pounded away at you and warn you down with the

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Speaker 2: running game, because it's a lot harder to defend the run.

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Speaker 2: It's a lot more physically exhausting to defend the run

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Speaker 2: than it is to defend the pass.

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Speaker 3: Well, and the other thing too, Mike, you have to

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Speaker 3: keep this in mind when you're factoring all this stuff together.

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Speaker 3: David Montgomery Gibbs, these type of players, they are born

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Speaker 3: into them that they want to be able to find

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Speaker 3: a way to work the ball down field. It is

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Speaker 3: the if a guy gets two yards three yards. You

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Speaker 3: can hear it from Aaron Jones and aj Dillon too.

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Speaker 3: They want to come back the next play and finally

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Speaker 3: break that one right, because it really that's all it takes.

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Speaker 3: It just takes that one sort of backbreaking moment to

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Speaker 3: turn it ahead a day completely on its head. We've

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Speaker 3: seen those performances with Aaron Jones over the years where hey,

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Speaker 3: maybe a team's doing a decent job against him, then

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Speaker 3: he breaks a sixty yard touchdown and everything changes. That

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Speaker 3: is where I think green Bay needs to figure this

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Speaker 3: thing out. The analogy I keep using, and you're the

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Speaker 3: big baseball guy. I'm not, but it reminds me of

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Speaker 3: fielding percentage. You can go out there and catch all

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Speaker 3: the routine pop flies over and over again. Mike, I'm

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Speaker 3: telling you right now, you're not winning the goal glove

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Speaker 3: for one hundred and sixty two games for an entire season.

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Speaker 3: If you go out there and misplay a ball and

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Speaker 3: it hits your gloves and falls down, it changes everything.

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Speaker 3: Not that you have to be one hundred percent all

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Speaker 3: the time, but it shows you how little the margin

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Speaker 3: for ERA is and for green Bay's standpoint, As you said,

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Speaker 3: that is the maddening thing because if you would not

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Speaker 3: have just shown me the numbers, By and large, I

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Speaker 3: think green Bay did do a good job of defending

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Speaker 3: a run in this game. But it's about what those

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Speaker 3: teams are able to do when they string plays together,

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Speaker 3: back and forth, back and forth. Aaron Jones, AJ Dillon.

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Speaker 3: The Packers offense only twelve carries for twenty seven yards

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Speaker 3: in this game. Why did that happen? A lot of

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Speaker 3: people say, well, you have to run the ball more.

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Speaker 3: But the thing is, if you don't get those yards

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Speaker 3: right away and you go three and out, you don't

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Speaker 3: get the plays to produce the yards. Yeah, and that's

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Speaker 3: where the Lions won this game.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and again you look at you know, we talked

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Speaker 2: about it in you know, after the Atlanta game, the

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Speaker 2: number of plays. You know, there's a difference of there

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Speaker 2: was a difference to twenty in this game. The Lions

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Speaker 2: ran seventy three, the Packers ran fifty three. That's not

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Speaker 2: a recipe to develop any kind of balance or rhythm

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Speaker 2: on offense. And it's not a recipe to be able

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Speaker 2: to win games because you're putting you're putting too much

359
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Speaker 2: on one side of the ball to try to keep

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Speaker 2: you in the game. As opposed to getting back to

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Speaker 2: your point about complimentary football, team football, it has to

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Speaker 2: be it has to be a team effort on both

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Speaker 2: sides to get yourself to the fourth quarter with a

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Speaker 2: chance to win.

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Speaker 1: It worked out.

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Speaker 2: It didn't work out against the Falcons, it did work

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Speaker 2: out against the Saints, and they never really gave themselves

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Speaker 2: that chance against the Detroit Lions.

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Speaker 3: The one thing I will say, so we're not just

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Speaker 3: sitting here talking about all the sad, depressing stuff, is

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Speaker 3: the fact that what I did enjoy about this game

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Speaker 3: in the second half especially, was you started to see

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Speaker 3: what is going to be the safety valves, the plays

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Speaker 3: that you can always have in your back pocket. And

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Speaker 3: Jordan Love and Romeo Dobbs. I mean, you're seeing all

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Speaker 3: that reps, that timing, all that stuff that's built up.

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Speaker 3: It's taken them places. Now, it wasn't flawless. We know

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Speaker 3: what happened with the interception late, but the fourth and

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Speaker 3: nine play fifteen yards. How many times did Romeo Dobbs

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Speaker 3: complete a first down with a quick out in these things,

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Speaker 3: the plays that Aaron Rodgers would turn to for DeVante Adams. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you're seeing the roots of that right now between Dobbs

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Speaker 3: and also with Jordan Love in the fact they finally

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Speaker 3: got Christian Watson back in this game. He was on

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Speaker 3: the snapcount. He did get another touchdown. The guy's a

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Speaker 3: magnet for the end zone. It happened again. And my goodness,

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Speaker 3: I know Rob Damowski from ESPN dot com has written

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Speaker 3: these stories already, But if you can just get Dobbs

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Speaker 3: and Watson on the field together, both of these guys

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Speaker 3: have flashed individually together collectively, my goodness, what the possibilities

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Speaker 3: are for the passing game if they can both be

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Speaker 3: with the Packers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this last game, you got Watson back on a snapcount.

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Speaker 2: You got Aaron Jones back on a snapcount. Hopefully maybe

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Speaker 2: those snapcounts will either rise or perhaps be lifted entirely.

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Speaker 2: With a little bit of the extra break before the

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Speaker 2: Monday night game coming up against the Raiders, Packer's still

398
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Speaker 2: trying to figure out exactly how things are going to

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Speaker 2: be pieced together. On the offensive line. David Baktiari is

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Speaker 2: now on injured reserve, so he is out somewhat indefinitely

401
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Speaker 2: at this point. Rashid Walker is the guy who is

402
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Speaker 2: filled in at left tackle. Zach Tom is dealing with

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Speaker 2: an injury to his knee. He gutted it out, you know,

404
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Speaker 2: played played the whole game at right tackle against the Lions,

405
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Speaker 2: but definitely was not himself in that regard. John Runyon

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Speaker 2: injured an ankle during the game against the Lions. We'll

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Speaker 2: see where he is, you know, come.

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Speaker 1: Come game time.

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Speaker 2: So Packers have Packers have some things to figure out

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Speaker 2: there up front offensively, but you're hoping that maybe those

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Speaker 2: those perimeter weapons health wise are going to start to

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Speaker 2: come around.

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Speaker 3: And I love Zach Tom I love this dude. I

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Speaker 3: love everything about him. I love his play style. I

415
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Speaker 3: like his footwork, the fact that he's made this right

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Speaker 3: tackle thing work. Even though you and I spent the

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Speaker 3: entire summer saying, hey, he looks more like an interior

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Speaker 3: guy to yeah, he finds a way. And for him

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Speaker 3: to come on a short week, dude, you and I

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Speaker 3: saw that replay of the Saints late, I mean that

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Speaker 3: was a funky sort of looking injury. For him to

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Speaker 3: bite down on the mouthpiece and get out there and

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Speaker 3: play as well as he did, given all the things

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Speaker 3: working against him, and given that he had to line

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Speaker 3: up a couple times against Hutchinson, your hat just goes

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Speaker 3: off to him. I mean, this is the this is again.

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Speaker 3: We talked about Elton Jenkins all the time, and they're

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Speaker 3: different types of offensive linemen, but they're succeeding early on

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Speaker 3: for the same exact way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a little bit of sponsor business here, West, and

431
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Speaker 2: then I'm gonna throw one more topic at you. Serious

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Speaker 2: XMNFL Radio delivers hard hitting analysis and up to the

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00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:32,240
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436
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Speaker 2: and cheese, golden fries, and creamy shakes, all paired with

437
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,120
Speaker 2: your favorite sub or sub and a bowl Cousin Subs

438
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:46,280
Speaker 2: fifty years of better.

439
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:47,840
Speaker 1: All right.

440
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 2: As I said much earlier in the show, the Lions

441
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:55,159
Speaker 2: have definitely shown that as of right now they are

442
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:56,879
Speaker 2: the team to beat in the NFC North. They are

443
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 2: sitting atop the division at three and one, the Packers

444
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,239
Speaker 2: behind them at two and two, the Minnesota Vikings at

445
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,440
Speaker 2: one and three, the Chicago Bears at zero to four.

446
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,120
Speaker 2: That is where things sit in the NFC North right now.

447
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:14,400
Speaker 2: My question for you, because as much as I certainly

448
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 2: believe that this is not the same old Lions, I

449
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,160
Speaker 2: think Dan Campbell has changed the culture there. He has

450
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,199
Speaker 2: proven that this is not the same old Lions. You

451
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 2: have a quarterback in Jared Goff who has plenty of experience,

452
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,119
Speaker 2: He's gone to a super Bowl, all of that kind

453
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,160
Speaker 2: of stuff. The question that's out there is how will

454
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 2: the Lions handle success at this point? How will they

455
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 2: handle being the team everybody's coming after in the division?

456
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 2: Not the team that is, you know, the plucky underdog,

457
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 2: you know, the team that can kind of sneak up

458
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,239
Speaker 2: on somebody. You know, That's not who the Lions are now.

459
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 2: They came into Lambeufield on Thursday Night Football and dominated

460
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 2: the Packers and walked out in control of the division.

461
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 2: So how do you think, how do you think the

462
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,719
Speaker 2: Lions handle this? Where do you think this goes for them?

463
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 3: We're gonna learn a little bit about it this week

464
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 3: because now they're gonna be considerable favorites going up against Carolina.

465
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 3: But you use the word plucky, and the team that

466
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 3: I think has pulled up that moniker this year is

467
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 3: the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Yes, they are the plucky team,

468
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,639
Speaker 3: and they're gonna see them in two weeks, and then

469
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 3: after that they're gonna have a game against the Raiders,

470
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 3: we'll see where the Raiders is.

471
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 2: That Buccaneers game that just got flexed actually to a

472
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 2: larger like national audience. Not that makes sense, not that

473
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 2: that matters necessarily to the players when they're out there

474
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 2: on the field, but more of the country is going

475
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 2: to start to see these Detroit Lions now.

476
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 3: And the Buccaneers have gotten back to what Baker Mayfield

477
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:41,680
Speaker 3: does well, and that is making games entertaining first and foremost,

478
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 3: but keeping things interesting. What Baker did at the end

479
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 3: of last season with the Rams, that wasn't an anomaly.

480
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,120
Speaker 3: That's Baker Mayfield football. And somewhere along the line in Cleveland,

481
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 3: I think they kind of lost the plot a little bit.

482
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,920
Speaker 3: Tampa Bay needs that type of performance out of him

483
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 3: to be able to make that offensive work because there

484
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 3: is a dearth of weapons there, I think, specifically in

485
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 3: their backfield. Let's get back to the Lions, though, they're

486
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 3: going to be taking on a team and the Panthers

487
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 3: that they're going to be considerable favorites at and then

488
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:07,919
Speaker 3: they're going to have whatever happens in that game, they

489
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,360
Speaker 3: have to come back and face Tampa Bay. They are

490
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,360
Speaker 3: now going to be the team that people are going

491
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 3: to be gunning to beat. I even said to you afterwards.

492
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 3: No disrespect to anybody else on this Packer schedule, but

493
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 3: there's six games up until when the Packers play the Lions.

494
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 3: I think you can make a really good argument that

495
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 3: the Lions are the best team the Packers are going

496
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 3: to face until they face the Lions again. I think

497
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,199
Speaker 3: that's all three phases, everything they bring. Oh, and then

498
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 3: you're playing them on Thanksgiving in Detroit. That's a challenge.

499
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 3: But this weekend more than any other, Mike reiterated something

500
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 3: that Darnell Savage talked about. It's something you and I

501
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 3: have talked about in the past. It is not easy

502
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 3: to win in the National Football League. Ask the Chicago Bears,

503
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 3: Ask the Carolina Panthers, Ask these teams that have found

504
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 3: themselves in these last minute scenarios and just are not

505
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 3: able to pull that victory out. I give credit to

506
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 3: the Detroit Lions. They've played competitive football and they've found

507
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 3: ways to win so far.

508
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 1: They're only lost this season is in overtime. Yep.

509
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it has now got them in a position

510
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 3: where they can be in the driver's seat. How you

511
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 3: handle that. It's going to be an obviously very interesting question.

512
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 2: To a Yeah, and it's also as we've seen in

513
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 2: this league, it is Sustaining success is the toughest challenge

514
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 2: that there is in this league. Just ask the New

515
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 2: York Giants, just ask the Minnesota Vikings. Look where those

516
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 2: two teams are right now, coming off of playoff seasons

517
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 2: a year ago, when they completely re energize their fan

518
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 2: bases with what they had going, and now a month

519
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 2: into the new season, those same fan bases are going like.

520
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,400
Speaker 1: Where where are we? Where are we headed here?

521
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 2: Sustaining success is extremely difficult. It's the biggest challenge there

522
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 2: is in this league. The Lions have got something good

523
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 2: going here, they can they keep it going. I think

524
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 2: it's I mean, other than other than Jordan Love and

525
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 2: the long term prospects for the Green Bay Packers with

526
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 2: him as their quarterback. What's going on in Detroit is

527
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 2: the other big story right now in the NFC.

528
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 3: Well, since twenty fourteen now they've on what was it

529
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,360
Speaker 3: five times at lambeau Field or however that stat went,

530
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 3: and then years before that they went twenty four.

531
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 2: St Yeah, they went, Yeah, they went a couple decades

532
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 2: without being able to win a game in the state

533
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 2: of Wisconsin.

534
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 3: It just shows you again. I remember listening to Jason

535
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 3: Hansen talk about how I've never beaten these guys yes

536
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 3: day and the guy played twenty one years or whatever

537
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 3: it was. When the mentality changes, the momentum changes, and

538
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 3: just the psychology that goes into these games, that matters.

539
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 3: It matters when you feel like you're a winner. And

540
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 3: that speech. I know he's not on the team anymore,

541
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 3: but I go back to Hard Knocks a year ago

542
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 3: and that speech that Jamal Williams gave that football team

543
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 3: about how I'm tired of losing. I don't want to

544
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 3: be a loser. I'm here to win. I think there's

545
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 3: a lot of people in Detroit that have picked up

546
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,199
Speaker 3: on that. And then, lastly, just to further illustrate your

547
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 3: point about how quickly things can change, the Miami Dolphins

548
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 3: after completely running Denver out of the stadium, putting up

549
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 3: twenty points to the Buffalo Bills forty eight in a

550
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 3: game that could be a preview of an AFC.

551
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, when in the NFL, I mean it's it's it's

552
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 2: like college football scores. I mean, when in the NFL

553
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 2: has a team one by fifty and then lost by

554
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 2: twenty eight, seven days later. I mean, this, this league

555
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 2: is this league is crazy. If you're the if you're

556
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 2: the Packers, Okay, you got it handed to you, you

557
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 2: pick yourself up, you dust yourself off, you get ready

558
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 2: for the next one. And that next one is Monday

559
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 2: night in Vegas against a Raiders team that you know,

560
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 2: they've got some injury issues. They're trying to figure some

561
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,919
Speaker 2: things out as far as where they're going and uh,

562
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 2: and the Packers are headed to head to Vegas to

563
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 2: play in a stadium they've never played in before.

564
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 3: And we're gonna be previewing this on Thursday. We'll get

565
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 3: to it then. But Josh Jacobs is off to a

566
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 3: very slow start. The Raiders run offense is off to

567
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 3: an extremely slow start. Raiders are turning over the football

568
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 3: way too much right now. Yep, But I can guarantee

569
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 3: you down in Las Vegas right now, they're going, hey,

570
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 3: this is an opportunity. We're going up against a thirty

571
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 3: ranked run defense. Right, who's going to be the one

572
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 3: that succeeds there?

573
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 2: Right?

574
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: Exactly which it's gonna be the one that responds right?

575
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 2: Exactly which team is going to be the one to

576
00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 2: turn the tide in terms of in terms of the

577
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 2: you know, those negative vibes of a certain phase, the

578
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 2: negativity that's going on. Which team is going to be

579
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,439
Speaker 2: able to turn it around. We'll definitely talk about that

580
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 2: more on Thursday on our next show, but for now,

581
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 2: we'll call it a rap on this edition of Packers Unscripted.

582
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 2: Be sure to follow all of our coverage of the

583
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 2: team on Packers dot com. For Wes, I'm Mike. Thank

584
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 2: you for tuning in everybody. We will see you next time.