WEBVTT - Ep 43: Shirley Manson 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:23.599 Loud and quiet presents Midnight Chats, no bullshit. 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:26.120 Those were the first two words that came to mind 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:29.440 when I was thinking about tonight's guest on Midnight Chats. 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:32.560 That's how I describe her, and I mean that as 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:37.919 the highest possible compliment someone who says exactly how she feels. 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:41.720 Last week, I met up with Shirley Manson just the 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:44.760 night before the Garbage Front woman had been presented with 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:48.839 the Icon Award at this year's V five Enemy Awards, 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:52.800 and that's exactly what she is. An icon and she's 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:57.000 been doing her iconic thing for three decades now. On 0:00:57.120 --> 0:01:00.000 stage at the ceremony in London, Jenny Beth from Savage 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:03.480 gave her the statue, and to be honest, I couldn't 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:05.840 put it any better than she did. On the evening 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:09.679 Chilly Manson, she said, is a woman with grace and 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:13.160 strength through every stage of her life and career who 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:15.920 taught me that I know that I can do and 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:20.000 be whoever I want. The next day, before she stepped 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:22.160 on a plane to travel back to her home in 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:26.800 Los Angeles, we recorded this conversation and we got into 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:30.120 a lot more than any other midnight Chat I can 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:33.520 remember Apart from the awards night, we spoke about her 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:37.640 recollections of meeting Marquis Smith from The Fall, who recently 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:40.040 passed away. She does a great impression of him, by 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:44.080 the way, the lack of opportunities for and the coverage 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:48.120 of women in music, particularly older women in music, the 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:52.680 Me Too campaign and the current global conversation around gender inequality, 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:55.000 and just how much more that has to be done 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:58.600 on that front. Being a British citizen living in Donald 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:01.720 Trump's America as well, and a lot of other stuff too. 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:05.240 I should also say this is a special one for me. 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:10.080 This year, twenty eighteen, Garbage will celebrate the twentieth anniversary 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:13.480 of their album Version two point zero, and that's got 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:16.040 great memories for me. I didn't mention this when I 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:19.120 met up with Shirley, but my first ever gig was 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:23.280 Garbage at Wembley Arena when they were touring that album. 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:25.680 I went with my big brother and his mate. My 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:28.680 parents dropped us off and waited around the corner in 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:33.600 the local TGI Fridays, and I remember the gig being amazing, 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:39.320 exceptionally loud, and I've been to a lot of shows since, 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:43.760 but I'll definitely never forget that one. So a real 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:46.600 hero of mine on this episode of the podcast, an 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:51.520 artist who's passionate, fearless and inspiring. This is Shirley Manson 0:02:51.720 --> 0:03:12.040 on Midnight Chaps. Shirley Manson, Welcome to Midnight Chats. 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:12.880 Thank you very much. 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:17.000 Fresh from winning an Icon award at this year's Enemy Awards. 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:20.440 That was last night. How congratulations, thank you. How is 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:20.880 your evening? 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:22.760 We had fun. It was fun. 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:23.960 You know, it was. 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:29.400 Surreal and sweet, and you know it was cool to 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:32.520 be in a room full of musicians that I admire 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:36.200 and to be part of that community's a privilege, I think. So, yeah, 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:36.960 it was great. 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:39.320 Was it an opportunity to meet any old friends or 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:42.520 meet any or make any new acquaintances? What did the 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:43.920 evening entail? Yeah? 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:47.880 I mean we bumped into some old pals, some old enemies, 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:52.920 met some new fabulous people. But yeah, it was great. 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:57.080 Jenny Bethram Savages presented you with your award. I thought 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:58.520 her words were fantastic. 0:03:58.640 --> 0:03:59.600 Yeah, you and me both. 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:02.200 It's one of those things, isn't it. What's the feeling 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:03.840 like when you're sat at the table, you're about to 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:06.800 pick up an award and somebody who no doubt you're 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:11.280 a fan of and you admire says something incredibly heart 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:14.240 felt about you personally, and you were just were you 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:17.240 kind of like, you know, we're like, oh, stop being 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:19.360 so nice. What was going through your mind just before 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:20.440 you walked up together the award? 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:22.120 I don't know. I mean, I love Jenny Beth. I've 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:24.599 had the pleasure of being on her podcast before, so 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:27.000 we've spoken, although we had never actually met her in 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:30.240 the flesh, but I love her band Savages, and I 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:33.120 think she's extraordinary and so yet to hear her speak 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:38.080 like that was moving. I was really moved by it, 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:40.120 you know, because I could tell it was sincere and 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:43.600 I think that's what was so lovely about it for 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:46.080 me and my family, And you know, my brother in 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:48.960 law was crying, and I was really sweet, and I'm 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:50.640 very grateful to her. I thought it was a really 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:53.760 generous introduction she gave me. She didn't need to do that, 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:54.400 you know, for. 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:57.560 People that haven't seen it yet. Jenny Beth spoke very 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:01.200 eloquently about the influence that you've had on her and 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:03.200 said that you know, you have given the confidence to 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:07.080 be somebody who really didn't give a fuck about just 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:09.000 following around path and doing what she wanted to do. 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:11.320 Is that something that really means a lot to you 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:12.320 to hear somebody else. 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:14.120 Like that, Well, I wouldn't say it means a lot 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:16.280 to me per se, because obviously my career has been 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:18.320 about me and my pursuit. I mean, it's not like 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.320 I've gone out my way to sort of influence anyone 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:24.799 or try and wield influence over anyone. I've just tried 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:28.360 to be might be as close to my authentic self 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:33.080 as I can possibly be and have a clear conscience 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:35.960 and a clean career, you know. But obviously, when you 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:40.039 are an artist in the public eye, you inadvertently influence people. 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:42.800 That's just part of the job. It goes with the territory. 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:47.240 When people that you admire, whose careers you have followed, 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:51.839 and whose work you love, then it does mean something 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:57.160 more significant, I guess, And it's exciting and again it's 0:05:57.200 --> 0:05:59.359 part of that real privilege of being a part of 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:02.400 the musical caner, you know, where we're all influencing one another. 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:04.200 And yeah, very special. 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:06.400 You obviously gave an acceptance speech when you picked up 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:09.000 the award. Had you planned well ahead what you're going 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:10.600 to say? Did you did that kind of come off 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:12.280 to things that you wanted to say. 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:14.960 I'm ashamed to say I had to wing it because 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:16.960 it just felt silly to sit down and write a 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:18.239 speech for the Enemy awards. 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:19.039 That's good style. 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:22.760 Yeah, I just I tried to sort of sit down 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.920 and think of something I wanted to say, and anytime 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:29.440 it just seemed too heavy handed and or not heavy 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:31.440 handed enough, you know. So I just gave up in 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:33.159 the end and just thought I'll wing it, much the 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:39.160 concern of my husband. But you know, I spoke from 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:41.520 the heart, and I think I did an okay job. 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:43.279 How does it feel to be given an award that 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:45.080 sort of labels you as an icon? 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:48.880 Well, it's ridiculous and wonderful at the same time, you know. 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:50.960 I mean, I'd be a liar if I said it 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:54.000 wasn't thrilling, you know, especially coming from the enemy, which 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:57.080 I spoke about last night. Broke Garbage in the UK 0:06:57.240 --> 0:07:00.000 or certainly helped to played a big role in our career. 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:04.400 Was essentially my music bible from the age of fourteen onwards. 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:06.480 And I learned a lot about music in the pages 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:11.760 of the broadsheet and Emmy, and you know, I fell 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:14.040 in love with a lot of the journalists that we 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:17.640 had the pleasure of working with, and I felt legitimized. 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:19.600 I guess it feels like, oh, I am actually a 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:22.160 legitimate musician, and that feels cool. 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:25.880 Also in the evening there was Brick Smith start had 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:28.640 some very eloquent words to say about Marky Smith. What 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:30.880 did you think of that moment? Was Marky Smith or 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:31.560 somebody you were. 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:34.520 Fo Yeah, I was a big Fall fan and had 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:37.400 the pleasure of meeting him. Actually he came in, came 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:39.560 and attended one of our shows in Brixton Academy of 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:44.000 all places, ironically, and we were all very excited to 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:48.720 meet him. And upon being introduced to him, we said, 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:55.000 watching a show tonight was like watching pain dry. All 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:57.360 of our faces kind of fell, you know. But it 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:00.480 was such a beautiful, classic Marky Smith comment. 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:00.920 You know that. 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:03.960 I think we were all understanding of the fact that 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:06.960 we just got we just got a moment right there. 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:09.240 And I was very sad to see to read of 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:12.880 his passing. And actually met Bricks last night, and she 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:14.720 had a big effect on me too when I was 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:17.400 growing up, and you know, her and Kim Gordon were 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:21.200 like two of the baddest, meanest, coolest girls in rock 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:22.680 and roll as far as I was concerned. 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:24.360 A couple of years ago, at the Enemy Awards and 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.000 the Godlike Genius Award went to Blondie. I was there 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:30.880 that night, Debbie Harry. You've tolded Blondie quite recently, in fact, 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:32.040 what was she like? 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:35.280 I mean, my love of Debra Harry is is well documented, 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:39.920 not just because of her contribution to music and being 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:44.840 someone I've looked up to for what almost seems to 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:46.800 amount to the whole of my life at this point, 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:51.600 but to tour with her was extraordinary. You know, to 0:08:51.880 --> 0:08:54.080 see a woman of seventy one years old still have 0:08:54.200 --> 0:09:02.160 vigor and purpose and be creative and curious is inspiring. 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:05.640 You know, I'm fifty one myself, and I am often 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.640 the oldest woman in the room, and it can often 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:13.679 be a little dispiriting because there's not many of us 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:17.840 at this level at that age, and so you're always 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:20.400 the odd one out, the weirdo in the corner. And 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:25.040 to then go on tour with Debbie, I was forced 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:28.800 to sort of change my mind about a lot of 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:31.240 my own sort of assumptions about who I am and 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:33.760 what my age means. And so on and so forth, and 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:37.280 I'm very grateful to her. She's creates this incredible beacon 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:40.440 not just for music women and music, but for all 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:43.000 women all over the world. She's standing up saying you 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:46.280 can still have agency at seventy one. That's a powerful message, 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:49.280 and it's not a message we really have received up 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:52.400 until this point. You know. It's still very very rare 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.240 for women over fifty to ever be covered by any 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:59.959 news media outlet, you know. And so she's really create 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.840 a template as we speak, you know, for and showing 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:07.199 us the possibilities. And I'm very grateful to her for that, 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:08.800 you know. And I have a lot of love in 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.920 my heart for her, because she's not just incredible, she's 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:17.800 really kind and generous and she makes room for everybody 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:21.040 in her you know, orbit and not many stars do 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:22.079 that at that level. 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:24.600 If you thought about how long you like to continue 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:27.400 making music, and did that make you think, hey, yeah, 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:29.959 I could definitely be still touring with Garbage when I'm 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:31.240 in my seventies. 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:33.880 Well yes, and no, you know, I mean that's what 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:37.920 I was saying. It changes your perspective when you I mean, 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:39.920 I've said this so much this week, but you can 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:42.880 become what you see. If you don't see any representation 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:46.680 of yourself out there, I think you feel a little disengaged. 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:48.800 But when you see someone like her, of course that 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:51.440 changes your perspective. It's like, oh, I can do this, 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:53.600 and if I want to, I will. 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:57.640 Representation has been obviously a big topic, certainly around award 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:00.520 ceremonies in the arts this year, this the last couple 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:03.440 of years, but particularly kind of hot topic at the 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:05.960 moment given what's just happened with the Grammys and the 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:09.559 head of the Grammys in his comments, was it important 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:11.680 to when you're offered an award like the Icon Award 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:13.559 of the Enemy Awards to accept it? Was that part 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:15.800 of your reasoning for wanting to get Yeah, definitely, I'll 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:17.480 be there. I'll accept that award. 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:20.480 Yeah, Because I mean, you look back at history, not 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:23.720 just in music, but in all aspects of our culture. 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:27.319 Women have had a hard time being remembered that they 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:30.000 don't play a large role in the narrative at all. 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:34.120 It's almost as low they didn't exist. You know. I 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:36.640 believe that that has to change, and I feel like 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:43.280 by accepting certain awards or accolades, you are forcing the 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:46.880 narrative to cover women, and I believe in that strongly, 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:49.679 you know, because I feel it inspires other women they 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:53.440 see the possibilities for them, and so yeah, I believe 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:58.920 that women, when given the opportunity, should accept any accolades 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:01.640 coming their way. But it's all individual choice. But that's 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:02.280 what I believe in. 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:05.760 We yet to see I think a really powerful speech 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:09.200 or kind of comment from a man using that platform 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:12.160 to kind of to sport for example, the me Too movement, 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:14.440 or certainly that I've seen perhaps it has happened, but 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:18.439 that's something that important. That's something that's important that needs 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:19.120 to happen, isn't it. 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:23.199 Yeah. I mean, again, there's a lot of disagreement amongst 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:27.160 women about this, but I personally believe that this is 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:32.000 not actually a female topic. This is a male topic 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:35.000 that women are choosing to speak out on, but the 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:38.960 midden is male. Like I mean, there's just no doubt 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:43.520 about it. You look at the statistics, you hear women 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:49.040 testify this is a male issue, and how do we 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:51.600 tackle that, And the fact that most males are not 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:59.439 actually engaging in any sympathetic, empathetic, sensitive, thoughtful fashion surprises 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:02.880 me and disappoints me. It's almost as though men think, well, 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:05.719 this is just an entirely female topic. I'm staying out 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:08.839 of it, and this is not my problem. We'll actually 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:13.719 know this really is some male problem. And it's one 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:16.559 in three women are suffering at the hands of male 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:23.320 aggression one in seven men. That's a crazy statistic. And 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:25.720 what are we going to do about it? As not 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:29.720 just a nation, as a globe. But this is a bizarre, systemic, 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:34.800 institutionalized horror story, and it amazes me that men are 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:35.880 just choosing to look away. 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:39.160 There's been had plenty of courage the comments from the 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:42.240 head of the Grammys following this year's awards, or rather 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:44.800 just before this year's awards, and the controversy around that 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:47.200 the brit Awards have this year have decided to give 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:50.320 out the white Rose to like everybody that's coming along 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:52.880 to this year's awards to show support for the me 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:54.880 too movement. There's been a lot of debate the last 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:56.800 kind of like twenty four hours ince they announced that 0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:59.319 because every man that sat on a table that the 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:00.959 brit Awards is it's going to get given one of 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:04.440 these things. And it feels like possibly it should be 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:06.200 if they want to show support. They should actually be 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:10.360 getting off the backside and doing that by their own volition, 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:12.439 not because somebody's just handed their one. What do you 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:13.040 think about that? 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:15.640 I mean, I would tend to agree that it seems 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:19.080 a little pointless. Anyone can shove a white rose on 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:21.440 their jacket. It doesn't speak to who they are, what 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:23.880 they are, what they believe in, how they conduct themselves, 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:25.160 in their you know, in their lives. I mean, I 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:26.960 think we all saw that with the Golden Globes. There's 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:30.880 a bunch of men, men wearing Times up pins, and 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:34.400 then literally twenty four hours later were were revealed as 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:40.400 you know, predators or men who are not treating women 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:43.880 particularly well. So I guess, yeah, I want to see 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:46.840 action now at this point, I think I think we 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:50.520 have all the evidence we need now. It requires action, 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:55.160 but the actions, unfortunately are complicated and complex, and I 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:58.200 don't know where we begin. I mean, it really requires 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:02.320 a very serious analo by governments all over the world 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:06.520 with regards to how do we re educate young boys 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.320 and young women, How do we re educate our children 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:13.680 so that this stops will never stop it entirely because 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:17.960 there a sexual predators out there in the world, and 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.600 I don't think any form of education will ever necessarily 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:24.720 change that, but we can definitely minimize and the sort 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:31.920 of bizarre casual touching and assaulting of women. It's funny 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:33.400 because I was thinking the other day, you know, as 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:37.840 human beings, we are powerful, and we're taught children are powerless, 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:44.040 and we respect that sort of equation, generally speaking adults. 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:49.200 And obviously there's always horrifying abnormalities to any story, but 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:54.160 in general, adults respect the powerlessness of children, and they 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:59.000 attend to that and they protect children. And men are 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:04.520 general physically stronger than women, and they have to be 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:10.280 educated to respect that dynamic, that equation. And at this point, 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:13.520 I don't think any effort has been put into teaching 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:18.640 men how to control themselves, how to accept a refusal. Yeah, 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:20.840 it's complicated, man, I don't have any of the answers. 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:22.040 I just want it to stop. 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:25.520 Yeah, I agree. I think there's there's a lot to 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:27.600 be done when it comes to education, and you immediately 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:30.920 think of what can be done in order to make 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:33.640 that stop from the generation that's about to begin. But 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:37.720 I think there's also a responsibility on the generation absolutely 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:41.360 right now, all levels, I think there's the action that 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:42.320 can be taken. 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:45.480 Of course, but whether it will be it is open 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:48.360 to to be, you know. I mean that it's just 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:52.920 such a big problem too with regards to how governments 0:16:54.120 --> 0:17:01.280 currently view our societies. You know, and money becomes king, 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:05.920 people become nothing, and when people are nothing, they don't 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:10.320 put them any money into education, and we just sort 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:16.200 of fall into this endless pit of you know, economics 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:23.760 and poverty and excess, and it's just it's and to me, 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:26.360 I think if I was, if I was a president 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:31.560 of a government, I would want to encourage more and 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:36.560 more money being put into education. Education is so key 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:40.360 and yet money, you know, everybody only cares about money 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:42.080 and profit and of course you can't you can't have 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:45.480 profit in education. Education isn't about profit and it never 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:49.280 will be. And so I mean, I look at the 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:51.679 American government. They put less and less money into education 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:54.840 every day. It's astounding, you know. Half they're like one 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:57.400 of the most powerful nations, richest nations in the world, 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:01.280 and they're and their their educations system is falling behind 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:05.880 some less well developed countries. You know, it's just bizarre. 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:11.639 And ultimately, if you have an uneducated populace. Your whole 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:14.160 world is going to go down the toilet really fast. 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:20.080 Certainly doesn't feel very forward thinking. Also, how is it 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:24.080 felt your resident in the US. There's obviously been unarguably 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:26.560 a lot of regressive stuff going on in the US 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:28.840 given the current president. 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:32.280 Incredibly nameless. 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:35.120 Yeah, we actually said the last podcast than the last 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:37.240 episode of the podcast, we spoke to Casey Spooner from 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:41.240 Fisher Spooner who refused to say his name because he 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:42.399 didn't want to empower him. 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:43.360 That's how I feel too. 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:46.080 How does it feel to be a British resident in America? 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:48.639 Well, I deeply love America and I feel like it's 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:52.399 a very misunderstood country. Funnily enough, it's where my whole 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:55.600 career took off. Really where every opportunity I've had in 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:58.520 my life has been offered to me as an immigrant 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:02.600 ironically in America, and I believe strongly in it. But 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:06.439 I am heartbroken to see what's going on currently, you know, 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:11.040 and we talk about it every day in every way. 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:15.760 I mean, it's changed our daily existence. You know. I 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:19.879 didn't imagine I never imagined that having a leader that 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:22.760 is like the creature we have and currently in power 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:25.840 would affect my daily existence in the way in the 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:29.560 way he has. But yeah, every day and every way, 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:34.360 I'm agitated, I'm angry, I'm upset, I feel fearful when 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:37.920 you hear some of the rhetoric regarding like the LGBTQ 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:42.000 community for a random example, of which we have so 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:47.720 many friends who we love and admire and and we 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:51.439 feel our communities on their threat and our fans. You know, 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:53.719 so many of our fans are from that community. And 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:57.399 to hear the rhetoric coming out of Mike pence mouth 0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:01.640 or is so shocked to me and that people are 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:03.960 not out in the street going nuts at the white 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:06.200 gates of the White House kind of shocks me too. 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:08.680 It's like, what's it going to take before the American 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:14.560 people will rise up? You know, it baffles me because 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:15.640 it's hate speak. 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:18.520 In terms of your day to day then, like, oh. 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:20.560 Can we not just talk about something cheap and cheerful and. 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:27.360 Really dark? Tell me a bit? Can you just tell 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:29.639 me a little bit about girls school in the in 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:32.040 the movement what that is, and like how you've been 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:33.399 involved with what they've been doing that. 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:37.800 Well, there are a phenomenal initiative out of Los Angeles 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:42.400 run by an amazing musician called Annibalbrook who's best known 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:48.159 for working with Airborne Toxic Event and she came up 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:52.600 with this initiative which is to encourage women of all ages, 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:56.600 all ethnicities, all socioeconomic backgrounds to get involved in music 0:20:56.640 --> 0:20:59.080 at whatever level and area they want to get involved in, 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:04.600 whether that's you know, lighting, monitor engineering, production, so and 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:08.840 so forth. Performing. And I was invited to be on 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:13.040 her keynotes speaker two years ago, and then she contacted 0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:15.479 me again this year, and I'd had such an amazing 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:18.360 experience them the first year I was involved that I 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:21.680 jumped at the chance and she suggested I do this 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:25.960 incredible performance with an all female choir, a string quartet, 0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:31.359 a harpist, all female band. And it was extraordinary. It 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:35.119 was an extraordinary, wonderful, magical event, and I was very 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:39.640 proud to be involved in the wonderful, amazing goddess that 0:21:39.640 --> 0:21:41.679 Fiona Apple came and joined me on stage and we 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:45.359 sang a cover of Leslie Gores You Don't Own Me 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:48.440 and Fiona was wearing a Neil Port now t shirt 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:52.200 which she'd handmade. Yeah, and it was delightful and to 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:59.479 just be part of that protest in such beautiful, poetic terms, 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:01.800 just really extraordinary. 0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:04.120 That sounds like a very positive thing to be happening. 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:06.960 Or their plans to move it into different cities. That 0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:09.000 line that you just mentioned sounds like a really inspiring 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:11.359 group of musicians to bring together, take it on tour 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:12.200 or something like that. 0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:14.400 Well, I know, Anna Bilbrook is an ambitious woman. I'm 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:17.000 sure she's got plans, She's yet to share them with me. 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:19.240 But you know, I'm also involved with the Girls Rock 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:23.240 movement here in London and in Glasgow, in Miami, and 0:22:23.320 --> 0:22:26.440