Speaker 1: Loud and quiet presents Midnight Chats, no bullshit.
Speaker 2: Those were the first two words that came to mind
Speaker 2: when I was thinking about tonight's guest on Midnight Chats.
Speaker 2: That's how I describe her, and I mean that as
Speaker 2: the highest possible compliment someone who says exactly how she feels.
Speaker 2: Last week, I met up with Shirley Manson just the
Speaker 2: night before the Garbage Front woman had been presented with
Speaker 2: the Icon Award at this year's V five Enemy Awards,
Speaker 2: and that's exactly what she is. An icon and she's
Speaker 2: been doing her iconic thing for three decades now. On
Speaker 2: stage at the ceremony in London, Jenny Beth from Savage
Speaker 2: gave her the statue, and to be honest, I couldn't
Speaker 2: put it any better than she did. On the evening
Speaker 2: Chilly Manson, she said, is a woman with grace and
Speaker 2: strength through every stage of her life and career who
Speaker 2: taught me that I know that I can do and
Speaker 2: be whoever I want. The next day, before she stepped
Speaker 2: on a plane to travel back to her home in
Speaker 2: Los Angeles, we recorded this conversation and we got into
Speaker 2: a lot more than any other midnight Chat I can
Speaker 2: remember Apart from the awards night, we spoke about her
Speaker 2: recollections of meeting Marquis Smith from The Fall, who recently
Speaker 2: passed away. She does a great impression of him, by
Speaker 2: the way, the lack of opportunities for and the coverage
Speaker 2: of women in music, particularly older women in music, the
Speaker 2: Me Too campaign and the current global conversation around gender inequality,
Speaker 2: and just how much more that has to be done
Speaker 2: on that front. Being a British citizen living in Donald
Speaker 2: Trump's America as well, and a lot of other stuff too.
Speaker 2: I should also say this is a special one for me.
Speaker 2: This year, twenty eighteen, Garbage will celebrate the twentieth anniversary
Speaker 2: of their album Version two point zero, and that's got
Speaker 2: great memories for me. I didn't mention this when I
Speaker 2: met up with Shirley, but my first ever gig was
Speaker 2: Garbage at Wembley Arena when they were touring that album.
Speaker 2: I went with my big brother and his mate. My
Speaker 2: parents dropped us off and waited around the corner in
Speaker 2: the local TGI Fridays, and I remember the gig being amazing,
Speaker 2: exceptionally loud, and I've been to a lot of shows since,
Speaker 2: but I'll definitely never forget that one. So a real
Speaker 2: hero of mine on this episode of the podcast, an
Speaker 2: artist who's passionate, fearless and inspiring. This is Shirley Manson
Speaker 2: on Midnight Chaps. Shirley Manson, Welcome to Midnight Chats.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much.
Speaker 2: Fresh from winning an Icon award at this year's Enemy Awards.
Speaker 2: That was last night. How congratulations, thank you. How is
Speaker 2: your evening?
Speaker 3: We had fun. It was fun.
Speaker 2: You know, it was.
Speaker 3: Surreal and sweet, and you know it was cool to
Speaker 3: be in a room full of musicians that I admire
Speaker 3: and to be part of that community's a privilege, I think. So, yeah,
Speaker 3: it was great.
Speaker 2: Was it an opportunity to meet any old friends or
Speaker 2: meet any or make any new acquaintances? What did the
Speaker 2: evening entail? Yeah?
Speaker 3: I mean we bumped into some old pals, some old enemies,
Speaker 3: met some new fabulous people. But yeah, it was great.
Speaker 2: Jenny Bethram Savages presented you with your award. I thought
Speaker 2: her words were fantastic.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you and me both.
Speaker 2: It's one of those things, isn't it. What's the feeling
Speaker 2: like when you're sat at the table, you're about to
Speaker 2: pick up an award and somebody who no doubt you're
Speaker 2: a fan of and you admire says something incredibly heart
Speaker 2: felt about you personally, and you were just were you
Speaker 2: kind of like, you know, we're like, oh, stop being
Speaker 2: so nice. What was going through your mind just before
Speaker 2: you walked up together the award?
Speaker 3: I don't know. I mean, I love Jenny Beth. I've
Speaker 3: had the pleasure of being on her podcast before, so
Speaker 3: we've spoken, although we had never actually met her in
Speaker 3: the flesh, but I love her band Savages, and I
Speaker 3: think she's extraordinary and so yet to hear her speak
Speaker 3: like that was moving. I was really moved by it,
Speaker 3: you know, because I could tell it was sincere and
Speaker 3: I think that's what was so lovely about it for
Speaker 3: me and my family, And you know, my brother in
Speaker 3: law was crying, and I was really sweet, and I'm
Speaker 3: very grateful to her. I thought it was a really
Speaker 3: generous introduction she gave me. She didn't need to do that,
Speaker 3: you know, for.
Speaker 2: People that haven't seen it yet. Jenny Beth spoke very
Speaker 2: eloquently about the influence that you've had on her and
Speaker 2: said that you know, you have given the confidence to
Speaker 2: be somebody who really didn't give a fuck about just
Speaker 2: following around path and doing what she wanted to do.
Speaker 2: Is that something that really means a lot to you
Speaker 2: to hear somebody else.
Speaker 3: Like that, Well, I wouldn't say it means a lot
Speaker 3: to me per se, because obviously my career has been
Speaker 3: about me and my pursuit. I mean, it's not like
Speaker 3: I've gone out my way to sort of influence anyone
Speaker 3: or try and wield influence over anyone. I've just tried
Speaker 3: to be might be as close to my authentic self
Speaker 3: as I can possibly be and have a clear conscience
Speaker 3: and a clean career, you know. But obviously, when you
Speaker 3: are an artist in the public eye, you inadvertently influence people.
Speaker 3: That's just part of the job. It goes with the territory.
Speaker 3: When people that you admire, whose careers you have followed,
Speaker 3: and whose work you love, then it does mean something
Speaker 3: more significant, I guess, And it's exciting and again it's
Speaker 3: part of that real privilege of being a part of
Speaker 3: the musical caner, you know, where we're all influencing one another.
Speaker 3: And yeah, very special.
Speaker 2: You obviously gave an acceptance speech when you picked up
Speaker 2: the award. Had you planned well ahead what you're going
Speaker 2: to say? Did you did that kind of come off
Speaker 2: to things that you wanted to say.
Speaker 3: I'm ashamed to say I had to wing it because
Speaker 3: it just felt silly to sit down and write a
Speaker 3: speech for the Enemy awards.
Speaker 2: That's good style.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just I tried to sort of sit down
Speaker 3: and think of something I wanted to say, and anytime
Speaker 3: it just seemed too heavy handed and or not heavy
Speaker 3: handed enough, you know. So I just gave up in
Speaker 3: the end and just thought I'll wing it, much the
Speaker 3: concern of my husband. But you know, I spoke from
Speaker 3: the heart, and I think I did an okay job.
Speaker 2: How does it feel to be given an award that
Speaker 2: sort of labels you as an icon?
Speaker 3: Well, it's ridiculous and wonderful at the same time, you know.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'd be a liar if I said it
Speaker 3: wasn't thrilling, you know, especially coming from the enemy, which
Speaker 3: I spoke about last night. Broke Garbage in the UK
Speaker 3: or certainly helped to played a big role in our career.
Speaker 3: Was essentially my music bible from the age of fourteen onwards.
Speaker 3: And I learned a lot about music in the pages
Speaker 3: of the broadsheet and Emmy, and you know, I fell
Speaker 3: in love with a lot of the journalists that we
Speaker 3: had the pleasure of working with, and I felt legitimized.
Speaker 3: I guess it feels like, oh, I am actually a
Speaker 3: legitimate musician, and that feels cool.
Speaker 2: Also in the evening there was Brick Smith start had
Speaker 2: some very eloquent words to say about Marky Smith. What
Speaker 2: did you think of that moment? Was Marky Smith or
Speaker 2: somebody you were.
Speaker 3: Fo Yeah, I was a big Fall fan and had
Speaker 3: the pleasure of meeting him. Actually he came in, came
Speaker 3: and attended one of our shows in Brixton Academy of
Speaker 3: all places, ironically, and we were all very excited to
Speaker 3: meet him. And upon being introduced to him, we said,
Speaker 3: watching a show tonight was like watching pain dry. All
Speaker 3: of our faces kind of fell, you know. But it
Speaker 3: was such a beautiful, classic Marky Smith comment.
Speaker 2: You know that.
Speaker 3: I think we were all understanding of the fact that
Speaker 3: we just got we just got a moment right there.
Speaker 3: And I was very sad to see to read of
Speaker 3: his passing. And actually met Bricks last night, and she
Speaker 3: had a big effect on me too when I was
Speaker 3: growing up, and you know, her and Kim Gordon were
Speaker 3: like two of the baddest, meanest, coolest girls in rock
Speaker 3: and roll as far as I was concerned.
Speaker 2: A couple of years ago, at the Enemy Awards and
Speaker 2: the Godlike Genius Award went to Blondie. I was there
Speaker 2: that night, Debbie Harry. You've tolded Blondie quite recently, in fact,
Speaker 2: what was she like?
Speaker 3: I mean, my love of Debra Harry is is well documented,
Speaker 3: not just because of her contribution to music and being
Speaker 3: someone I've looked up to for what almost seems to
Speaker 3: amount to the whole of my life at this point,
Speaker 3: but to tour with her was extraordinary. You know, to
Speaker 3: see a woman of seventy one years old still have
Speaker 3: vigor and purpose and be creative and curious is inspiring.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm fifty one myself, and I am often
Speaker 3: the oldest woman in the room, and it can often
Speaker 3: be a little dispiriting because there's not many of us
Speaker 3: at this level at that age, and so you're always
Speaker 3: the odd one out, the weirdo in the corner. And
Speaker 3: to then go on tour with Debbie, I was forced
Speaker 3: to sort of change my mind about a lot of
Speaker 3: my own sort of assumptions about who I am and
Speaker 3: what my age means. And so on and so forth, and
Speaker 3: I'm very grateful to her. She's creates this incredible beacon
Speaker 3: not just for music women and music, but for all
Speaker 3: women all over the world. She's standing up saying you
Speaker 3: can still have agency at seventy one. That's a powerful message,
Speaker 3: and it's not a message we really have received up
Speaker 3: until this point. You know. It's still very very rare
Speaker 3: for women over fifty to ever be covered by any
Speaker 3: news media outlet, you know. And so she's really create
Speaker 3: a template as we speak, you know, for and showing
Speaker 3: us the possibilities. And I'm very grateful to her for that,
Speaker 3: you know. And I have a lot of love in
Speaker 3: my heart for her, because she's not just incredible, she's
Speaker 3: really kind and generous and she makes room for everybody
Speaker 3: in her you know, orbit and not many stars do
Speaker 3: that at that level.
Speaker 2: If you thought about how long you like to continue
Speaker 2: making music, and did that make you think, hey, yeah,
Speaker 2: I could definitely be still touring with Garbage when I'm
Speaker 2: in my seventies.
Speaker 3: Well yes, and no, you know, I mean that's what
Speaker 3: I was saying. It changes your perspective when you I mean,
Speaker 3: I've said this so much this week, but you can
Speaker 3: become what you see. If you don't see any representation
Speaker 3: of yourself out there, I think you feel a little disengaged.
Speaker 3: But when you see someone like her, of course that
Speaker 3: changes your perspective. It's like, oh, I can do this,
Speaker 3: and if I want to, I will.
Speaker 2: Representation has been obviously a big topic, certainly around award
Speaker 2: ceremonies in the arts this year, this the last couple
Speaker 2: of years, but particularly kind of hot topic at the
Speaker 2: moment given what's just happened with the Grammys and the
Speaker 2: head of the Grammys in his comments, was it important
Speaker 2: to when you're offered an award like the Icon Award
Speaker 2: of the Enemy Awards to accept it? Was that part
Speaker 2: of your reasoning for wanting to get Yeah, definitely, I'll
Speaker 2: be there. I'll accept that award.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Because I mean, you look back at history, not
Speaker 3: just in music, but in all aspects of our culture.
Speaker 3: Women have had a hard time being remembered that they
Speaker 3: don't play a large role in the narrative at all.
Speaker 3: It's almost as low they didn't exist. You know. I
Speaker 3: believe that that has to change, and I feel like
Speaker 3: by accepting certain awards or accolades, you are forcing the
Speaker 3: narrative to cover women, and I believe in that strongly,
Speaker 3: you know, because I feel it inspires other women they
Speaker 3: see the possibilities for them, and so yeah, I believe
Speaker 3: that women, when given the opportunity, should accept any accolades
Speaker 3: coming their way. But it's all individual choice. But that's
Speaker 3: what I believe in.
Speaker 2: We yet to see I think a really powerful speech
Speaker 2: or kind of comment from a man using that platform
Speaker 2: to kind of to sport for example, the me Too movement,
Speaker 2: or certainly that I've seen perhaps it has happened, but
Speaker 2: that's something that important. That's something that's important that needs
Speaker 2: to happen, isn't it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, again, there's a lot of disagreement amongst
Speaker 3: women about this, but I personally believe that this is
Speaker 3: not actually a female topic. This is a male topic
Speaker 3: that women are choosing to speak out on, but the
Speaker 3: midden is male. Like I mean, there's just no doubt
Speaker 3: about it. You look at the statistics, you hear women
Speaker 3: testify this is a male issue, and how do we
Speaker 3: tackle that, And the fact that most males are not
Speaker 3: actually engaging in any sympathetic, empathetic, sensitive, thoughtful fashion surprises
Speaker 3: me and disappoints me. It's almost as though men think, well,
Speaker 3: this is just an entirely female topic. I'm staying out
Speaker 3: of it, and this is not my problem. We'll actually
Speaker 3: know this really is some male problem. And it's one
Speaker 3: in three women are suffering at the hands of male
Speaker 3: aggression one in seven men. That's a crazy statistic. And
Speaker 3: what are we going to do about it? As not
Speaker 3: just a nation, as a globe. But this is a bizarre, systemic,
Speaker 3: institutionalized horror story, and it amazes me that men are
Speaker 3: just choosing to look away.
Speaker 2: There's been had plenty of courage the comments from the
Speaker 2: head of the Grammys following this year's awards, or rather
Speaker 2: just before this year's awards, and the controversy around that
Speaker 2: the brit Awards have this year have decided to give
Speaker 2: out the white Rose to like everybody that's coming along
Speaker 2: to this year's awards to show support for the me
Speaker 2: too movement. There's been a lot of debate the last
Speaker 2: kind of like twenty four hours ince they announced that
Speaker 2: because every man that sat on a table that the
Speaker 2: brit Awards is it's going to get given one of
Speaker 2: these things. And it feels like possibly it should be
Speaker 2: if they want to show support. They should actually be
Speaker 2: getting off the backside and doing that by their own volition,
Speaker 2: not because somebody's just handed their one. What do you
Speaker 2: think about that?
Speaker 3: I mean, I would tend to agree that it seems
Speaker 3: a little pointless. Anyone can shove a white rose on
Speaker 3: their jacket. It doesn't speak to who they are, what
Speaker 3: they are, what they believe in, how they conduct themselves,
Speaker 3: in their you know, in their lives. I mean, I
Speaker 3: think we all saw that with the Golden Globes. There's
Speaker 3: a bunch of men, men wearing Times up pins, and
Speaker 3: then literally twenty four hours later were were revealed as
Speaker 3: you know, predators or men who are not treating women
Speaker 3: particularly well. So I guess, yeah, I want to see
Speaker 3: action now at this point, I think I think we
Speaker 3: have all the evidence we need now. It requires action,
Speaker 3: but the actions, unfortunately are complicated and complex, and I
Speaker 3: don't know where we begin. I mean, it really requires
Speaker 3: a very serious analo by governments all over the world
Speaker 3: with regards to how do we re educate young boys
Speaker 3: and young women, How do we re educate our children
Speaker 3: so that this stops will never stop it entirely because
Speaker 3: there a sexual predators out there in the world, and
Speaker 3: I don't think any form of education will ever necessarily
Speaker 3: change that, but we can definitely minimize and the sort
Speaker 3: of bizarre casual touching and assaulting of women. It's funny
Speaker 3: because I was thinking the other day, you know, as
Speaker 3: human beings, we are powerful, and we're taught children are powerless,
Speaker 3: and we respect that sort of equation, generally speaking adults.
Speaker 3: And obviously there's always horrifying abnormalities to any story, but
Speaker 3: in general, adults respect the powerlessness of children, and they
Speaker 3: attend to that and they protect children. And men are
Speaker 3: general physically stronger than women, and they have to be
Speaker 3: educated to respect that dynamic, that equation. And at this point,
Speaker 3: I don't think any effort has been put into teaching
Speaker 3: men how to control themselves, how to accept a refusal. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's complicated, man, I don't have any of the answers.
Speaker 3: I just want it to stop.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. I think there's there's a lot to
Speaker 2: be done when it comes to education, and you immediately
Speaker 2: think of what can be done in order to make
Speaker 2: that stop from the generation that's about to begin. But
Speaker 2: I think there's also a responsibility on the generation absolutely
Speaker 2: right now, all levels, I think there's the action that
Speaker 2: can be taken.
Speaker 3: Of course, but whether it will be it is open
Speaker 3: to to be, you know. I mean that it's just
Speaker 3: such a big problem too with regards to how governments
Speaker 3: currently view our societies. You know, and money becomes king,
Speaker 3: people become nothing, and when people are nothing, they don't
Speaker 3: put them any money into education, and we just sort
Speaker 3: of fall into this endless pit of you know, economics
Speaker 3: and poverty and excess, and it's just it's and to me,
Speaker 3: I think if I was, if I was a president
Speaker 3: of a government, I would want to encourage more and
Speaker 3: more money being put into education. Education is so key
Speaker 3: and yet money, you know, everybody only cares about money
Speaker 3: and profit and of course you can't you can't have
Speaker 3: profit in education. Education isn't about profit and it never
Speaker 3: will be. And so I mean, I look at the
Speaker 3: American government. They put less and less money into education
Speaker 3: every day. It's astounding, you know. Half they're like one
Speaker 3: of the most powerful nations, richest nations in the world,
Speaker 3: and they're and their their educations system is falling behind
Speaker 3: some less well developed countries. You know, it's just bizarre.
Speaker 3: And ultimately, if you have an uneducated populace. Your whole
Speaker 3: world is going to go down the toilet really fast.
Speaker 2: Certainly doesn't feel very forward thinking. Also, how is it
Speaker 2: felt your resident in the US. There's obviously been unarguably
Speaker 2: a lot of regressive stuff going on in the US
Speaker 2: given the current president.
Speaker 3: Incredibly nameless.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we actually said the last podcast than the last
Speaker 2: episode of the podcast, we spoke to Casey Spooner from
Speaker 2: Fisher Spooner who refused to say his name because he
Speaker 2: didn't want to empower him.
Speaker 3: That's how I feel too.
Speaker 2: How does it feel to be a British resident in America?
Speaker 3: Well, I deeply love America and I feel like it's
Speaker 3: a very misunderstood country. Funnily enough, it's where my whole
Speaker 3: career took off. Really where every opportunity I've had in
Speaker 3: my life has been offered to me as an immigrant
Speaker 3: ironically in America, and I believe strongly in it. But
Speaker 3: I am heartbroken to see what's going on currently, you know,
Speaker 3: and we talk about it every day in every way.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's changed our daily existence. You know. I
Speaker 3: didn't imagine I never imagined that having a leader that
Speaker 3: is like the creature we have and currently in power
Speaker 3: would affect my daily existence in the way in the
Speaker 3: way he has. But yeah, every day and every way,
Speaker 3: I'm agitated, I'm angry, I'm upset, I feel fearful when
Speaker 3: you hear some of the rhetoric regarding like the LGBTQ
Speaker 3: community for a random example, of which we have so
Speaker 3: many friends who we love and admire and and we
Speaker 3: feel our communities on their threat and our fans. You know,
Speaker 3: so many of our fans are from that community. And
Speaker 3: to hear the rhetoric coming out of Mike pence mouth
Speaker 3: or is so shocked to me and that people are
Speaker 3: not out in the street going nuts at the white
Speaker 3: gates of the White House kind of shocks me too.
Speaker 3: It's like, what's it going to take before the American
Speaker 3: people will rise up? You know, it baffles me because
Speaker 3: it's hate speak.
Speaker 2: In terms of your day to day then, like, oh.
Speaker 3: Can we not just talk about something cheap and cheerful and.
Speaker 2: Really dark? Tell me a bit? Can you just tell
Speaker 2: me a little bit about girls school in the in
Speaker 2: the movement what that is, and like how you've been
Speaker 2: involved with what they've been doing that.
Speaker 3: Well, there are a phenomenal initiative out of Los Angeles
Speaker 3: run by an amazing musician called Annibalbrook who's best known
Speaker 3: for working with Airborne Toxic Event and she came up
Speaker 3: with this initiative which is to encourage women of all ages,
Speaker 3: all ethnicities, all socioeconomic backgrounds to get involved in music
Speaker 3: at whatever level and area they want to get involved in,
Speaker 3: whether that's you know, lighting, monitor engineering, production, so and
Speaker 3: so forth. Performing. And I was invited to be on
Speaker 3: her keynotes speaker two years ago, and then she contacted
Speaker 3: me again this year, and I'd had such an amazing
Speaker 3: experience them the first year I was involved that I
Speaker 3: jumped at the chance and she suggested I do this
Speaker 3: incredible performance with an all female choir, a string quartet,
Speaker 3: a harpist, all female band. And it was extraordinary. It
Speaker 3: was an extraordinary, wonderful, magical event, and I was very
Speaker 3: proud to be involved in the wonderful, amazing goddess that
Speaker 3: Fiona Apple came and joined me on stage and we
Speaker 3: sang a cover of Leslie Gores You Don't Own Me
Speaker 3: and Fiona was wearing a Neil Port now t shirt
Speaker 3: which she'd handmade. Yeah, and it was delightful and to
Speaker 3: just be part of that protest in such beautiful, poetic terms,
Speaker 3: just really extraordinary.
Speaker 2: That sounds like a very positive thing to be happening.
Speaker 2: Or their plans to move it into different cities. That
Speaker 2: line that you just mentioned sounds like a really inspiring
Speaker 2: group of musicians to bring together, take it on tour
Speaker 2: or something like that.
Speaker 3: Well, I know, Anna Bilbrook is an ambitious woman. I'm
Speaker 3: sure she's got plans, She's yet to share them with me.
Speaker 3: But you know, I'm also involved with the Girls Rock
Speaker 3: movement here in London and in Glasgow, in Miami, and
Speaker 3: you know, there's there's a worldwide initiative that the Girl's
Speaker 3: Rock Campaign has got the same ideas, but they try
Speaker 3: and promote women and encourage them to get involved. You know,
Speaker 3: the statistics surrounding female musicians is shockingly low. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 3: excited about that. I feel like at least it feels
Speaker 3: like sort of you know, action in some ways. And yeah,
Speaker 3: so it was a joy. It's a joy to be
Speaker 3: involved in all that.
Speaker 2: Stuff you mentioned last night during your speech about festival lineups,
Speaker 2: the fact that it's not acceptable that there is not
Speaker 2: more women on festival lineups, that people aren't more booking
Speaker 2: more female artists. For example, this year a festivals taking
Speaker 2: place around Europe. There's one in Sweden that I know
Speaker 2: of that it's like an old female festival, So the
Speaker 2: line it will be female and the people gown there
Speaker 2: will be female. What do you think about things like that?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I used to not believe in positive
Speaker 3: discrimination at all. I was very against any form of
Speaker 3: what I considered to be like a ghetto, and I
Speaker 3: felt very strongly that women had to compete with men.
Speaker 3: But then I came to realize, as I've gotten older,
Speaker 3: women aren't being given the opportunity to compete. So if
Speaker 3: they're not being allowed to compete, then sure setting up
Speaker 3: all female centric festivals or lineups or opportunities, I'm all
Speaker 3: for it. At the same time, I feel very strongly
Speaker 3: that there has to be a no tolerance policy, i e.
Speaker 3: The punters shouldn't be going to festivals if they don't
Speaker 3: see themselves represented there. You know, it's like, if you're
Speaker 3: not seeing yourself being represented, don't go. Don't give them
Speaker 3: your dollars, don't give them their pounds, cut it, because
Speaker 3: until you do that, they're just going to keep going
Speaker 3: along in They're easy, breezy patriarchal ways and nothing's ever
Speaker 3: going to change, you know. So yeah, I'm sort of torn.
Speaker 3: But as I've gotten older, as I've said, I'm for
Speaker 3: positive discrimination. It's the only way we can force their hand.
Speaker 2: I went to MIA's Meltdown Festival last year. It was fantastic.
Speaker 2: It was full of incredible female artists, including Maya herself.
Speaker 2: You're involved with the Sun Dance Festival this year, and
Speaker 2: you've seen the MII documentary. Are you a fan of hers?
Speaker 3: A huge fan?
Speaker 2: And what did you make of the documentary?
Speaker 3: I love the documentary. I mean I usually if I'm
Speaker 3: a fan of an artist and then I go and
Speaker 3: see a documentary, I can often be a little disappointed
Speaker 3: or bummed out. I loved her more than I did before,
Speaker 3: which I do think is a good sign. I just
Speaker 3: thought she was I think she's spectacular. It was so
Speaker 3: many fronts. Phenomenal filmmaker, by the way, like really, she's
Speaker 3: the incredible video maker, like crazy good, and also has
Speaker 3: her own authentic, genuinely original voice in music and that's rare.
Speaker 3: And then she's got this delightful, sparkling personality, has something
Speaker 3: to say, She's passionate, and she seems like a good person,
Speaker 3: you know, so like she's trying to put something good
Speaker 3: out there as opposed to something negative. And No, I
Speaker 3: couldn't love her more. I find her very inspired.
Speaker 2: Is that amongst the best documentaries that have focused on
Speaker 2: an artists that you ever seen? Any think?
Speaker 3: No, I wouldn't go that far. I mean I think
Speaker 3: I always want more, you know. I mean Dig to
Speaker 3: Me is like maybe the best music documentary of all time.
Speaker 2: But there.
Speaker 3: I also thought the Metallica Gods and Monsters was a
Speaker 3: piece of genius. I mean, there's so many great documentaries,
Speaker 3: and then it depends what you're looking for. Yeah, but
Speaker 3: I think they did a good job in that they
Speaker 3: portrayed her in a very positive light. I would have
Speaker 3: preferred more music, you know, focus, but you know that's
Speaker 3: just me being fussy as usual.
Speaker 2: Would you ever do the Shany Manson documentary or the
Speaker 2: Garbage documentary film, or write a book or any of
Speaker 2: those type of things?
Speaker 3: I don't know. I always say never, say never, you know,
Speaker 3: like you just never know. I never thought in a
Speaker 3: million years we'd ever put out a coffee table book,
Speaker 3: and we did, and it was, you know, very satisfying.
Speaker 3: I have to say when the whole thing was said
Speaker 3: and done. So yeah, I never say no. I just
Speaker 3: think you should always keep your options open. But am
Speaker 3: I working on a fucking documentary on myself right now?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: I'm not. And do I have any plans to anytime soon? No?
Speaker 3: Absolutely not.
Speaker 2: Okay, I for one would like to say it, you're
Speaker 2: celebrating twenty years of Version two point oh uniperformed that
Speaker 2: album minutes entirely. Yeah, basically is a plan.
Speaker 3: That is the plan, and we're pretty excited about it.
Speaker 3: We had such a great time on the First Records
Speaker 3: Anniversary twentieth anniversary. We didn't realize how much joy we'd
Speaker 3: get out of it. Some of the songs we hadn't
Speaker 3: ever and listened to since we put them out in
Speaker 3: ninety five, you know. So it was kind of exploratory
Speaker 3: exercise and we loved it, and the fans loved it.
Speaker 3: We had such a blast, and so yeah, I think
Speaker 3: we're all pretty excited about taking Version two Poundsho out
Speaker 3: on the road. It's not a very long tour. We're
Speaker 3: just doing maybe eight weeks in total, which for us
Speaker 3: is really short. This year is mostly about writing. That's
Speaker 3: what we're supposed to be doing, but we keep getting
Speaker 3: distracted with a whole loads of other nonsense, as you
Speaker 3: always do as a band. But that's the plan is
Speaker 3: we're going to be working all year on writing and
Speaker 3: recording so that we have a new record to go
Speaker 3: out next year. But you know, the best laid plans
Speaker 3: of mice and men, as they.
Speaker 2: Say, what kind of things still really peaque your interest
Speaker 2: in terms of the music that you want to create,
Speaker 2: the projects you want to be involved in. What kind
Speaker 2: of thing still really gets you excited? Because it sounds
Speaker 2: like you've still got a lot of fire to like give.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm a Viking, so I will always have fire. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I will always have fire to my bow, I think,
Speaker 3: or to my long shit. But I am getting more
Speaker 3: and more serious about collaborating with other artists. I find
Speaker 3: it really inspiring. I didn't have the confidence to do
Speaker 3: it when I was younger, and now that I'm older,
Speaker 3: I'm a bit more comfortable with going in and writing
Speaker 3: in front of people I don't know, and also negotiating
Speaker 3: space in a collaborative setting. So I am excited about
Speaker 3: that kind of thing. I just don't want to keep
Speaker 3: repeating the same old, same, Oh you know, I really
Speaker 3: am getting more and more interested in sonics and how
Speaker 3: to do stuff that you haven't ever done before. It's uncomfortable,
Speaker 3: but that to me is exciting. And then I bore
Speaker 3: my band religiously at the moment about what I call
Speaker 3: high stakes.
Speaker 2: I E.
Speaker 3: Look, we're not young, We've never been young, but we're
Speaker 3: even less young. Now what is it that we need
Speaker 3: to say? And what is it we want to say
Speaker 3: if we died, you know, in a year, what have
Speaker 3: we left on the plate?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: So that's to me exciting because I like having restrictions.
Speaker 3: I feel like you can be really creative when you
Speaker 3: have really narrow confines in a funny way. And I
Speaker 3: feel like that, to me is something I want to explore.
Speaker 3: My high stakes whatever that may be, whatever it is
Speaker 3: from my band, I find that an interesting challenge to
Speaker 3: how to talk about the things nobody really wants to
Speaker 3: talk about. Nobody wants to talk about age, nobody wants
Speaker 3: to talk about death, Nobody wants to talk about these
Speaker 3: kind of topics. And that, of course is like a
Speaker 3: red rag to a bull to me.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, I look forward with religion here and what
Speaker 2: comes next.
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