Speaker 1: Welcome to NFL Daily, where we are not members of
Speaker 1: the New York Giants. I'm Greg Rosenthal here in the
Speaker 1: Chris Westling podcast studio, ready with my friend Jordan Rodrieg
Speaker 1: to start our division preview series going around the AFC
Speaker 1: West today.
Speaker 2: I love it. I'm so excited. This was a fun exercise.
Speaker 1: You haven't even done it yet, but yeah, I'm really
Speaker 1: excited about it too. We're going to put twelve minutes
Speaker 1: on the clock talk about these four teams. We got
Speaker 1: different categories. It's a lot of fun. But as I
Speaker 1: mentioned on What was It Wednesday? Show, training cape has
Speaker 1: started for a couple teams, so you know, the first
Speaker 1: couple of days of training camp are a little Panthers
Speaker 1: Cardinals heavy. And unfortunately, we start the news with a
Speaker 1: bad injury update out of Carolina, the first team to
Speaker 1: be on the practice field on Thursday morning, and it
Speaker 1: didn't take long until we learned that Nick Scorton was
Speaker 1: carted off the field was in tears and it already
Speaker 1: has been reported that he has a torn right knee
Speaker 1: ACL and that is absolutely brutal. Mike Kay of the
Speaker 1: Charlotte Observer said, if he was listing and this is
Speaker 1: before we knew for sure that it was a torn
Speaker 1: acl the ten players they could least afford to lose,
Speaker 1: this second year ed rusher Nick Scorton would be on
Speaker 1: that list. Why do you think he put Scorrton in
Speaker 1: that level of importance.
Speaker 2: Well, he was supposed to be such a huge part
Speaker 2: of their defense, taking another step forward after already taking
Speaker 2: a step forward, especially near the end of last season,
Speaker 2: he was coming along so well. You could see the progress,
Speaker 2: the explosiveness, the speed to power, some of the moves
Speaker 2: he was starting to develop in his arsenal. The way
Speaker 2: he could turn the corner at the end of the
Speaker 2: season to get to the quarterback was really starting. You
Speaker 2: could really see something there. And then they go out
Speaker 2: and they signed Jalen Rager in free agency, me Jalen
Speaker 2: Phillips in free agency, and that tandem was supposed to
Speaker 2: be their starting pass rush tandem for them. And this,
Speaker 2: you know, this is brutal. And the reporting of how
Speaker 2: distraught teammates were in the moment, I mean, it's just awful,
Speaker 2: awful news.
Speaker 1: First day of camp. That is absolutely brutal. Your heart
Speaker 1: hurts for him. And yeah, he was just a big,
Speaker 1: strong athlete and it's a position where they're rather thin,
Speaker 1: so they're backups. They have Patrick Jones who was with
Speaker 1: the Vikings, kind of a journeyman type, Princely Uman Miellen
Speaker 1: who did not look great as a rookie. They haven't
Speaker 1: had a ton of hits this front office in terms
Speaker 1: of their draft classes, and he was looking like a
Speaker 1: real important core piece. So just something to keep an
Speaker 1: eye on. There are some edges out there in free agency.
Speaker 1: Could we have a Jedevian Clowney reunion every year?
Speaker 2: You think?
Speaker 1: I think it makes a lot of sense. To be honest,
Speaker 1: we don't know if Joey Bosa wants to play football again,
Speaker 1: but if he did, this would be a good spot
Speaker 1: because look, they're looking to compete, and that's a devastating news.
Speaker 1: That's the negative news out of Panthers camp. I did
Speaker 1: notice mentioning Mike k though. You know, he put up
Speaker 1: this post on Blue Sky, and I saw our old
Speaker 1: friend Darren Gant, who I used to work with at
Speaker 1: Pro Football Talk, you know, showing different clips and it
Speaker 1: was just a picture if you're watching on YouTube of
Speaker 1: his training camp notebook. I love this stuff. I live
Speaker 1: for this stuff. This is the first day of training
Speaker 1: camp notebooks in any notes, this is Jonathan Brooks's first
Speaker 1: ever participation in a training camp practice in the NFL.
Speaker 1: He was out there, Jonathan Brooks, who was a high
Speaker 1: pick a couple of years ago and has suffered these
Speaker 1: you know, awful knee injuries and back to back seasons.
Speaker 1: He was out there taking reps with the first team
Speaker 1: after practice. You know, Canalis said he expects, you know,
Speaker 1: it's back to the old Jonathan Brooks. So there's some
Speaker 1: positivity and just the fact that we're taking training camp notes.
Speaker 1: I hate that we had to start with an injury,
Speaker 1: but I just feel like, Okay, it's our season. We're here.
Speaker 2: Yes, and shout out to Mike k because he also
Speaker 2: writes notes to us the reader of the notes that
Speaker 2: he posts, and I love it this. He does this
Speaker 2: every year's been doing it forever. You note at the
Speaker 2: bottom if you're watching this on YouTube, sorry for the delay.
Speaker 2: Phone service is bad. And I love that stuff. I
Speaker 2: love when you break the fourth wall as a beat
Speaker 2: writer because you're sharing your I just like it. I
Speaker 2: like how personal it feels. He's there, he's taking attendance
Speaker 2: those beat writers in Charlotte. Mike k Joe Person, Darren Gant,
Speaker 2: they are Cassidy Hill. They are taking attendance as well,
Speaker 2: they're checking boxes.
Speaker 1: It's it's a big thing attendant taking my own word
Speaker 1: that I always admire the attendants taking because I'm when
Speaker 1: I go to a training camp practically, that's a lot
Speaker 1: of work to go through and like figure out who's
Speaker 1: there who's not. But that's why they're there every day
Speaker 1: and we just fly in for a day at least
Speaker 1: speaking for myself. So it's Blue Sky Note season, It's
Speaker 1: Twitter note season. A couple other small things as we
Speaker 1: wait to get the AFC West Division preview ready. Nick
Speaker 1: Emon Warri, we found out why he wasn't available to
Speaker 1: practice for the Seahawks. He's on the pup list to
Speaker 1: start training camp. He had ankle surgery this offseason. That
Speaker 1: happened sometime after you know, he did some offseason work
Speaker 1: with the team, so he's probably hoping to avoid it,
Speaker 1: but it happened. They do hope and think that he'll
Speaker 1: be back at some point before the season starts, so
Speaker 1: it sounds like they expect him to be back for
Speaker 1: week one. Year Old buddy Jimmy Garoppolo is now putting
Speaker 1: it out there through through the reports that he is
Speaker 1: open to playing again. So it sounds like it's probably
Speaker 1: full in LA. They don't need him with the Rams,
Speaker 1: but he might he might play again.
Speaker 2: Well, there's I think enough worry about the fact that
Speaker 2: all of the news out of training camp was that,
Speaker 2: you know, oh, Ty Simpson and Stetson Bennett are still
Speaker 2: competing with each other, and you're like, you don't trust
Speaker 2: your first round pick to be the backup. No, but
Speaker 2: the the which, by the way, I don't. I think
Speaker 2: we'll we'll see clearly kind of where everyone's at in
Speaker 2: training camp. What I loved about this was that there
Speaker 2: was a lot of reporting and also rumors, and more
Speaker 2: than that, if you're me like thinking about him going
Speaker 2: to the Cardinals, his bond with Mike Lafleur, their their buddies,
Speaker 2: they you know, they've talked about playing together, you know,
Speaker 2: in the past. And then this Jacoby Brissette contract, he
Speaker 2: keeps holding out, holding out, holding out. The day after that,
Speaker 2: Jacoby Brissett's like, oh, I'm going to get a raise
Speaker 2: and come back to camp. Then Jimmy Garoppolo is like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm ready to play against Okay, when he was like
Speaker 2: floating retirement rumors. Was it because he didn't want to
Speaker 2: play for the Cardinals? And now, I mean how they
Speaker 2: were a friend.
Speaker 1: You would think you could just say no directly that
Speaker 1: he did. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Men can be real passive aggressive.
Speaker 1: That's fair. And I could see Jacoby and I could
Speaker 1: see Jimmy g not wanting to be a guy disappoint people.
Speaker 1: But yes, Jacoby is there. We haven't heard whether he's
Speaker 1: going to be out there a practice as of this taping,
Speaker 1: but I'm not really that concerned with that situation. The
Speaker 1: Cardinals also announced that their fourth round pick Caleb Proctor,
Speaker 1: who was a prospect a lot of draft knicks really
Speaker 1: liked as a as a defensive tackle could just shake
Speaker 1: things up from a small school, it's going to be
Speaker 1: out for the entire season. We didn't know he was
Speaker 1: hurt earlier in the off seat, that this was a possibility.
Speaker 1: But he is gone. And that's just the little you know,
Speaker 1: bits and bobs from the two teams that are at
Speaker 1: training camp. But training camp, as we know, from hard knocks,
Speaker 1: and we'll be watching the Seahawks hard knocks in a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks. Is speech season and I couldn't help
Speaker 1: but notice the Giants put out this series online on
Speaker 1: their website going through their entire offseason, and we got
Speaker 1: a little sneak preview into speech season that on Hard
Speaker 1: Knocks by getting to hear a part of John Harbaugh's
Speaker 1: introductory speech to the New York Giants. Standing up here
Speaker 1: in front of the New York Giants, the New York Giants,
Speaker 1: this is a New York.
Speaker 2: Giants said in this room, the New York Giants.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna be using that all year, the New
Speaker 1: York Giants, and I hope you give me a better
Speaker 1: reaction than those players gave.
Speaker 2: I was trying to sit as you talk, just like
Speaker 2: players in that room.
Speaker 1: It's like you say something and you don't get much
Speaker 1: of a reaction, so then you just say the same
Speaker 1: thing again, but louder, the New York Giant.
Speaker 2: That's exactly how I have my conversations with you.
Speaker 1: Not that far off. Also used to be big news
Speaker 1: with the number one overall pick signs with his team
Speaker 1: right before training camp start, but that's because there used
Speaker 1: to be worry that a guy wouldn't. For whatever reason,
Speaker 1: none of the quarterbacks in this class had signed coming
Speaker 1: into training camp, but Carson Back, the third round pick
Speaker 1: of the Cardinals, just signed before camp, and then Fernando
Speaker 1: Mendoza has officially signed as a member of the Raiders,
Speaker 1: and reportedly there was, you know, some back and forth
Speaker 1: about like how his guaranteed money was going to be paid,
Speaker 1: but it will be paid and it will be paid soon.
Speaker 1: Just imagine that dollar figure, twenty million or whatever.
Speaker 2: But you think Tom Brady was trying to negotiate that
Speaker 2: he pays it to him in like defunct bitcoin company.
Speaker 1: Or wow or that you know, he puts a little
Speaker 1: bit into his contract that he has to be part
Speaker 1: of his new WWE storyline.
Speaker 2: Oh kill me.
Speaker 1: Let's get into our first ever around the AFC West
Speaker 1: or around any division division preview, trying something a little
Speaker 1: bit different. What we're gonna do here. We're gonna put
Speaker 1: twelve minutes on the clock because famously we like to honk,
Speaker 1: and I do think constraints make great art. Saw The
Speaker 1: Odyssey last week and if you would think, oh that
Speaker 1: that was a long movie, but there was some reporting
Speaker 1: that because of the Imax cameras and how the projectors were,
Speaker 1: he knew it had to be under three hours because
Speaker 1: it's almost three hours, but you feel like it could
Speaker 1: be even longer. That thing could be like three and
Speaker 1: a half four hours. They had to speed. But I
Speaker 1: think constraints in general can make great art, and that's
Speaker 1: what's going to happen here.
Speaker 2: Well, for the listener, as we sat down, Greg already
Speaker 2: tried to add three minutes. I'm thinking about doing fifteen minutes,
Speaker 2: but we're going to constraints over here.
Speaker 1: Well, either way, it's a constraint. But yes, after the
Speaker 1: AFC West, if I feel like fifteen minutes was a
Speaker 1: better number, we might switch it to fifteen for other
Speaker 1: divisions and we'll get those three minutes back for all
Speaker 1: four of these teams, so it's even at some future dates.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna do some categories for each of the
Speaker 1: teams that I threw out there, but in general, it's
Speaker 1: going to be a free flowing conversation. We're going to
Speaker 1: talk about what's bringing us joy. We're going to talk
Speaker 1: about something schematically related. I call that scheme dream just
Speaker 1: something you wanted to point out, coaching or schematically. We're
Speaker 1: going to talk about the most important non quarterback on
Speaker 1: the team. You can't pick a head coach can't pick
Speaker 1: a quarterback, but who else is important that you want
Speaker 1: to talk about. We'll say things will go wrong for
Speaker 1: this team if it's just just kind of biggest concerns.
Speaker 1: If we've got anything left over, I'm calling that a
Speaker 1: little land yap, you know, just a little something extra
Speaker 1: at the end. And then at the end of each
Speaker 1: team we'll kind of talk about the ceiling, the floor
Speaker 1: and at the very end of the show, and you
Speaker 1: got it, that means you gotta stay with us. We
Speaker 1: will make our predictions of how this division is ordered,
Speaker 1: which I hadn't really thought about because to me, it's
Speaker 1: so it's early to be making predictions, and I don't
Speaker 1: feel that strongly about this division. I thought about it
Speaker 1: as I was parking the car to I don't even know.
Speaker 1: We're gonna see how the vibe hits me during this show.
Speaker 1: But we will go in alphabetical order, Jordan. We will
Speaker 1: ask our great producer Eric Roberts to put twelve minutes
Speaker 1: on the clock right now, and we'll start with the
Speaker 1: Denver Broncos to last year, of course, number one overall seed.
Speaker 1: You were high on them coming into this season. Yes,
Speaker 1: we thought they were your sleeper team. They win fourteen games.
Speaker 1: Everyone knows their one score game record was absolutely outrageous.
Speaker 1: They probably would have made the Super Bowl if bo
Speaker 1: Nicks had not hurt his ankle. Have among the most
Speaker 1: continuity of any team in the entire NFL. I'll get
Speaker 1: to that. What is bringing you joy? Let's start there
Speaker 1: with the Broncos.
Speaker 2: Well, it kind of ties into what we're going to
Speaker 2: talk about about scheme dreams and the things that make
Speaker 2: us happy schematically or that we're interested in. But as
Speaker 2: I was going through and I was watching them from
Speaker 2: last season, God, I was thinking about how much I
Speaker 2: loved watching Corland Sutton play. I just think he's always now.
Speaker 2: I know he's not slept on just collectively in terms
Speaker 2: of like the analyst community and all of that, but
Speaker 2: some of the catches he made, some of the connection
Speaker 2: between he and bo Nicks, especially down the back stretch
Speaker 2: of the season, and then sometimes Bonis would be a
Speaker 2: little streaky, but then Courtland Sutton would just sort of emerge,
Speaker 2: right and just be this prototypical receiver that we think,
Speaker 2: you know, what we think about when we think about
Speaker 2: like a Sean Payton offense essentially, And I started thinking about,
Speaker 2: first of all how joyful I am to be watching
Speaker 2: that again, and how we're probably going to get even
Speaker 2: more of that because of the addition of Jalen Waddle.
Speaker 1: And that's what I think about when I think of
Speaker 1: Sean Payton offense as an especially wide receiver, rooms that
Speaker 1: he's very good at having different types and then finding
Speaker 1: the right roles in Courtland Sutton is that Tecmo Super
Speaker 1: Bowl type where they do that close up of him
Speaker 1: just rising over the receiver, and it matches up really
Speaker 1: well with what bon Nicks does well, which is I
Speaker 1: think he throws to the outside, well, he throws it
Speaker 1: deep well, better than we expected I think coming into
Speaker 1: the league. And so that's a great shout. And I
Speaker 1: think having Wattle there and then maybe Totons a one,
Speaker 1: B or A two, and then suddenly the battle for three,
Speaker 1: which is Troy Franklin, Pat Bryant, Marvin Mims, like they're
Speaker 1: all in better spot. So I love that for bringing
Speaker 1: this straight. My idea for bringing me joy is more
Speaker 1: of just the build in general. It is an old
Speaker 1: school team build, and going through their projected starting lineup,
Speaker 1: I noticed that the entire offensive line has been on
Speaker 1: this team for at least four seasons and they've started
Speaker 1: together for three seasons. The center Luke Wattenberg, who was
Speaker 1: there before but he was on the team out, has
Speaker 1: been starting for three years. You know, you got McGlinchey,
Speaker 1: you got Garrett Boles who's gotten better, Quinn Minors is
Speaker 1: in all pro. Wattenberg's really emerged as a good young center.
Speaker 1: It's like, wow, that's how you want to build an
Speaker 1: offensive line. And Sean Payton's so good at and then
Speaker 1: you look at the entire defensive line. They've all been
Speaker 1: on the team for at least three years as well.
Speaker 1: And yes, Jonathan Franklin Myers left, that was one of
Speaker 1: their big departures. We'll get into the addition's departures during
Speaker 1: this conversation, but everyone else that's there, including Malcolm Roach
Speaker 1: who's probably stepping in, has been there any You could
Speaker 1: even go back to their linebackers and Justin Strenat and
Speaker 1: Alex Singleton, they've all been there. So this is a
Speaker 1: team and you look at the lines first. I think
Speaker 1: when looking for good teams that has been together for
Speaker 1: so long, it is so rare and so hard to
Speaker 1: do that in the NFL. And it's a mix. It's
Speaker 1: like half draft picks half not somewhere here before these
Speaker 1: this GM some some not a lot of pickups, Like,
Speaker 1: it's pretty impressive how they've kept this group together on
Speaker 1: both sides.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think what I A lot of people were
Speaker 2: sort of laughing or questioning, and rightfully so. It's rare
Speaker 2: when you see in free agency a team like the
Speaker 2: Broncos that don't do anything right. They did nothing until
Speaker 2: you know, much later in the waves of that period,
Speaker 2: and then they went out and got Jalen Waddle, right,
Speaker 2: who will contin you talk about a minute. But the
Speaker 2: reason why is because they're built like this. The reason
Speaker 2: why is because they have an above average player at
Speaker 2: at least all of those positions across on either side
Speaker 2: of the line, if not a very very good player,
Speaker 2: and then around them they have continuity. It is what
Speaker 2: really opens them up. I think on the defensive side,
Speaker 2: for Vance Joseph the defensive coordinator to be very very
Speaker 2: comfortable throwing so much heat, but in simplistic format like
Speaker 2: he doesn't. He doesn't do a lot of things that
Speaker 2: are when teams play as much man coverage, for example,
Speaker 2: as the Broncos do, which is the most in the NFL,
Speaker 2: he can also drop them into zone, and he's not
Speaker 2: sending like these crazy he blitzes. But he's not sending
Speaker 2: like these exotic pressures all the time or doing things
Speaker 2: they're doing relatively, I don't want to say simple, because
Speaker 2: it's NFL and the NFL is hard, but they're not
Speaker 2: sitting there and they're basically saying, our guys can beat
Speaker 2: your guys, and we're gonna throw some crazy stuff at
Speaker 2: you sometimes, but other times we're just gonna sit back
Speaker 2: and let our guys beat your guys because we can
Speaker 2: rush our entire front.
Speaker 1: So I know, you know, throwing this category in here
Speaker 1: is dangerous scheme dream we could just lose for it
Speaker 1: in for the next ten minutes. Stop that maya that scheme,
Speaker 1: but no, I'm really excited as something that you wanted
Speaker 1: to point out schematically that interests you with this team.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I love that you mentioned it. You've also
Speaker 2: mentioned it on Quarterback Casting Call earlier this year, Greg
Speaker 2: about Bonnick's allergy to the middle of the field. Really
Speaker 2: does not like to throw to the middle of the field.
Speaker 2: It was something like nineteen percent or sixteen percent of
Speaker 2: his throws overall actually were designed to be into the
Speaker 2: middle of the fields as intended by the concept and
Speaker 2: not just him working out of structure or dumping things off.
Speaker 2: And Jalen Wattles addition, people, I think when you first
Speaker 2: think about all that speed, you think, oh, more perimeter
Speaker 2: attack for Bonnicks, more burner speed. And you know, the
Speaker 2: majority of Jalen wattles routes last season with the Dolphins
Speaker 2: were vertical, right like he would at least start them vertically.
Speaker 2: But his in breakers, where his second most volume of routes,
Speaker 2: run at thirty eight point five percent per next Gen Stats.
Speaker 2: And he gets there fast. And that's what I think
Speaker 2: is the key here. He runs those in breakers and
Speaker 2: I'm not talking just like slants, you know, I'm talking
Speaker 2: deeper digs. I'm talking middle of the middle range digs.
Speaker 2: And he gets there so fast that I think that
Speaker 2: builds your confidence as a quarterback when you are in
Speaker 2: an offense that wants to play faster, as Davis Webb
Speaker 2: says he wants to do. When you're in a space
Speaker 2: where you want to diversify what you have in your
Speaker 2: past game and where you're targeting those voids in the field,
Speaker 2: you have a Courtland Suttlent Sutton who can then get
Speaker 2: a little bit more single coverage down the field. Jalen
Speaker 2: Wattle just not only opens up pretty much anything because
Speaker 2: they're going to align him anywhere. He also I think
Speaker 2: starts to heal that middle of the field target share,
Speaker 2: and I think that really opens up everything else for them.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I want this to be a place if you
Speaker 1: haven't been totally locked in this offseason, that you do
Speaker 1: get updated about the big news that's happened with each team. Obviously,
Speaker 1: trading for Jalen Wad was was an incredible, you know,
Speaker 1: show of intent by this team. So was Sean Payton
Speaker 1: giving up play calling to Davis Webb.
Speaker 2: Shocking, He just like blew everyone's mind.
Speaker 1: Well, we'll see how that goes and we'll talk about it,
Speaker 1: I'm sure throughout the course of the season. My schematic
Speaker 1: thing I'm kind of keeping an eye on is, you know,
Speaker 1: the one spot this does not look like a Sean
Speaker 1: Payton team has been the running game, right. He just
Speaker 1: has not had the same consistent running game that he
Speaker 1: had when he was in New Orleans. They bring back JK. Dobbins,
Speaker 1: They draft Jonah Coleman, who is a good mid round pick.
Speaker 1: But that's something I want to see them figure out
Speaker 1: whether it's with the pace, innovatively, whatever they're going to
Speaker 1: do to improve that running game. And then I'm also
Speaker 1: just wondering, and this could go and things go wrong
Speaker 1: if and what we'll switch to that here that you
Speaker 1: know as vance, Joe's gonna still be able to keep innovating,
Speaker 1: still have his fastball. It is just tough for a
Speaker 1: defensive coordinator who's been on a heater for year after
Speaker 1: year and you saw maybe just at times that not
Speaker 1: be as effective last year all the blitzeing, but for
Speaker 1: the most part it was. So he's going to have
Speaker 1: to like keep innovating, and.
Speaker 2: Maybe it is go a little more I mean, he
Speaker 2: does blitz, but maybe it is go a little bit
Speaker 2: more funky, a little bit more crazy, because it's not
Speaker 2: simple what he does at all, let me be clear.
Speaker 2: But they just have better dudes, right, So then let
Speaker 2: your players play and play in those mixed coverages, whether
Speaker 2: it's man or zone like they like to do. I
Speaker 2: can see why you fall into something like that.
Speaker 1: And part of that things could go wrong if Jonathan
Speaker 1: Cooper is suspended. So he was arrested a couple of
Speaker 1: times this offseason, for a domestic assault allegations. I asked around,
Speaker 1: Nobody knows if he's going to get suspended. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's a world where the Broncos just let him go.
Speaker 1: That hasn't happened in the past. The NFL has often
Speaker 1: waited for the legal process to play out, So it
Speaker 1: might not play out before this season. That's just a
Speaker 1: question mark. But he is a strong first step number
Speaker 1: two pass rusher to Nick Benito, who's one of the
Speaker 1: very best in the league and kind of fits what
Speaker 1: they do. And if you have to like pick knits
Speaker 1: for this entire team build, it's maybe the backups on
Speaker 1: the defensive side we just haven't seen much from. There's
Speaker 1: some younger mid round picks we haven't seen much. But
Speaker 1: it's a little thin edge, so that those are a
Speaker 1: handful of things all connected that things could go wrong
Speaker 1: with you don't have Cooper if they're just a little
Speaker 1: thin on the defensive side and then injuries hit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's top heavy teams who aren't necessarily thinking
Speaker 2: that they have to replenish every year in the draft
Speaker 2: or they need to find starters in the draft. Sometimes
Speaker 2: they will operate like this, right, you just don't know
Speaker 2: what the backups are forty nine ers who kind of
Speaker 2: been in this I would say, quote unquote trouble for
Speaker 2: the past. I mean aon basically. I mean I think
Speaker 2: that's a little bit more of an exaggerated version of this,
Speaker 2: but I think this, you know, this is a really
Speaker 2: serious situation and still has a lot to play out.
Speaker 2: I'm interested to see how they recalibrate in camp because
Speaker 2: it's almost like, Okay, you've got more defensive backs and
Speaker 2: more corners than you know what to do with at
Speaker 2: this point, and you got more corners than you have
Speaker 2: spot to play them at this point, and you're really
Speaker 2: still questioning what's going to happen with some of the
Speaker 2: peer pressure that they're bringing when they want to rush,
Speaker 2: like out of base or something like that.
Speaker 1: We were already through ten minutes, which means we're going
Speaker 1: the most important non quarterback and I'll just I'll be
Speaker 1: quick on this, which is like it's it is pat
Speaker 1: Certan to me. Yeah, they're so deep in the secondary
Speaker 1: that they don't even have a starting spot right now.
Speaker 1: For today, Baron we talked about his battle with Riley Moss,
Speaker 1: like and yet if Sirtan is in Certan and just
Speaker 1: making everyone better around him in the secondary. Like the
Speaker 1: secondary I think is what helps make this team really special.
Speaker 1: I love the safeties too, but it only makes sense
Speaker 1: when you have potentially the best cover corner in the
Speaker 1: entire NFL.
Speaker 2: In certan, Yeah, I mean, I'm going to go with
Speaker 2: the offensive line because overall, I think it's the best
Speaker 2: offensive line in football. It has been for a couple
Speaker 2: of years now. That also means you mentioned it in
Speaker 2: scheme dream got to run the ball better. Number nineteen
Speaker 2: in rushing dboa last season. That is not befitting of
Speaker 2: what they want to do with this offense, and that
Speaker 2: makes Jonah Coleman accidentally became very very important work. Lots
Speaker 2: of buzz around this fourth round rookie locally and obviously JK.
Speaker 2: Dobbins and RJ. Harvey are still the leaders there. They
Speaker 2: need more from that entire group, and so I make
Speaker 2: them maybe the most important.
Speaker 1: The Brogress fans were mad that JK. Dobbins like wasn't
Speaker 1: ranking in the top twenty on some of the things
Speaker 1: that were down to a minute here my land yapp here,
Speaker 1: which is just something a little extra some buzz. Jared
Speaker 1: Stidham might lose his backup quarterback job to Sam Ellinger.
Speaker 1: How about that.
Speaker 2: I have it in my notes. This is the team
Speaker 2: that should go get Jimmy Garoffolo to play backup quarterback
Speaker 2: for them because we all watched you, Jared Stidham in
Speaker 2: that game last year. Much respect to your career overall,
Speaker 2: but my goodness, my friend.
Speaker 1: That was tough. Yeah, it was a tough situat. I mean,
Speaker 1: Drake Bay wasn't that much better. It was a tough,
Speaker 1: tough weather day. Justin Strnad, who is one of our
Speaker 1: friend Dolly Connolly's very favorites as a rush linebacker, has
Speaker 1: a much bigger role now as a starter. They got
Speaker 1: rid of Drake Greenlaw if our listeners missed that. And
Speaker 1: then I just noted with the opening schedule they have
Speaker 1: the three NFC West teams plus the Chargers and the
Speaker 1: Chiefs and the Jaguars in the first six weeks of
Speaker 1: the season. That is brutal. I mean that is five
Speaker 1: playoff teams for you go, three of the best teams
Speaker 1: in the league from the NFC West. That's crazy. Let's
Speaker 1: wrap up. We're at the end of our twelve minutes,
Speaker 1: but we'll go over with our ceiling and our floor
Speaker 1: for the team, it is sort of I mean, we
Speaker 1: haven't done the ceiling floor part.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think this is the best team
Speaker 2: in the AFC West.
Speaker 1: Okay, and then so what's the floor you think? So
Speaker 1: then you think it's more like a while the floor.
Speaker 2: Is they can't run the ball and the quarterback gets hurt,
Speaker 2: and it's more of.
Speaker 1: A okay, yeah, I'm trying to take getting major players
Speaker 1: injured because we could say that for everything, because I
Speaker 1: did think about.
Speaker 2: That too for every tea. I think with everyone healthy,
Speaker 2: still that's the floor because if they can't run the ball,
Speaker 2: better teams are just going to start kying on them
Speaker 2: way more.
Speaker 1: So, I think judging about what you're saying, like, even
Speaker 1: in a worst case scenario, as long as they have
Speaker 1: good health, you see them as a playoff yes, and yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think the ceiling is winning the super Bowl.
Speaker 1: It's not that it's the same one of the teams
Speaker 1: that could do it. I think in this division they
Speaker 1: could be a third place team, though I don't think
Speaker 1: it's that crazy to imagine them in that spot. If
Speaker 1: just a couple of the things we talked similar to.
Speaker 2: The NFC West last year. I think this year is the.
Speaker 1: AFC and it's tough. If you're the third place team
Speaker 1: in your division, it's tough to make the playoffs. You
Speaker 1: can do it, but you're back in that spot where
Speaker 1: they were a couple of years ago, where you're like
Speaker 1: on the road in the Week one against a good
Speaker 1: team like the Bills. It's time for the offseason ride
Speaker 1: Along presented by Toyota. It's tough division and that's because
Speaker 1: it includes the defining team of the last decade. The
Speaker 1: Kansas City Chiefs had one of the best seven year
Speaker 1: runs of all time in the NFL. Maybe it's right there.
Speaker 1: Three titles, two more conference titles where they lost the
Speaker 1: Super Bowl, and two more conference championship losses. So they
Speaker 1: came up one year short of what I thought was
Speaker 1: the most unbreakable record in the entire NFL, which was
Speaker 1: the Patriots eight straight conference It's championship game appearance. You're
Speaker 1: in the final four eight straight years. They were one short.
Speaker 1: They win six games. Last year. They were bad even
Speaker 1: before Mahomes tears his ACL And so I really do
Speaker 1: look at that as like the beginning of something. Is
Speaker 1: this the start of a new Chiefs era or do
Speaker 1: we end up looking at at last year as like
Speaker 1: a little bit of a blip when you look at
Speaker 1: them overall, We'll start with what's bringing joy in terms
Speaker 1: of their situation.
Speaker 2: Well, like anyone with healthy boundaries, Greg, I decided to
Speaker 2: reframe your question and say, what helps me keep my
Speaker 2: joy as it pertains to the Kansas City Chiefs, and
Speaker 2: it is just solely focusing on the idea of getting
Speaker 2: a healthy Patrick Mahomes back. Then stop right there. Okay,
Speaker 2: don't think about what the run game may or may
Speaker 2: not look like.
Speaker 1: Oh this doesn't sound joy.
Speaker 2: Don't think about the receiver's room, that the tight ends
Speaker 2: room maybe stagnant. Just don't think about sounds.
Speaker 1: I think that could go wrong.
Speaker 2: All I'm saying is I'm keeping my joy and I'm
Speaker 2: thinking about what healthy Patrick Patrick Mahomes returning means for football,
Speaker 2: for our fun level, for our excitement, for our joy.
Speaker 2: And that's where I stop.
Speaker 1: I'm glad we had a good media conversation about Mahomes
Speaker 1: on the Quarterback Island casting call, so everyone checked that
Speaker 1: out from Wednesday. So I don't want to repeat myself.
Speaker 1: But what's bringing me joy for this team specifically is
Speaker 1: them being in a different spot, like we were getting
Speaker 1: a little bored. I was getting a little bored. And
Speaker 1: it's these all time greats. Three guys who I think
Speaker 1: are obviously Mahomes and Andy Reid are going to the
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. I think Steve Spagnola should, yeah one day.
Speaker 1: And it's three guys Chris Jones you could throw on
Speaker 1: that list too, who are in just a different position
Speaker 1: that they're having to kind of box their way out
Speaker 1: of lowered expectations, a lesser roster, and just a year
Speaker 1: to go. Show us like, wow, they really are different.
Speaker 1: Because if they come back this year and they win
Speaker 1: the division, or they win twelve or thirteen game, they're
Speaker 1: winning in the play, it's just it's just pretty unprecedented
Speaker 1: what they've accomplished. But there's more doubt coming into this season,
Speaker 1: and that kind of variants gets me excited. I know,
Speaker 1: schemes get you excited. And so I'm going to go
Speaker 1: first on scheme dream why not? And it's how spags
Speaker 1: is going to deploy this new secondary. Yeah. So they
Speaker 1: drafted Mansor de Laine in the top ten and they
Speaker 1: bring in a lowie. Gilman is going to be at
Speaker 1: safety at Nickelback, they have Cater Kohu. They don't have
Speaker 1: Trent McDuffie anymore, but they drafted a couple guys. Kennedy
Speaker 1: is another player, and then bring back Lagerius Snead who
Speaker 1: had some great years for them before he went to Tennessee.
Speaker 1: And so they were pretty middling last year. They weren't
Speaker 1: as effective with the blitz. In the end, Spegnolo kind
Speaker 1: of figured it out to where they were like a
Speaker 1: plus defense, but not a great defense. And so I
Speaker 1: want to see how Spags uses this secondary, including like
Speaker 1: a top ten pick.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a great choice because he's like
Speaker 2: our he did it again kind of guy, where you know,
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, give him, give him your draft picks
Speaker 2: and your rookies and he will turn them into the best,
Speaker 2: one of the best, and most terrible to play if
Speaker 2: you're offense. Defense is in the entire NFL and has
Speaker 2: that reputation for a reason. I think something that goes
Speaker 2: part and parcel with what you're saying is I don't
Speaker 2: know if they can rush the passer from the edges.
Speaker 2: I still am not sure about that. But when they
Speaker 2: brought in like Kyrie's Tanga for example, who was my
Speaker 2: most important non quarterback on this team because of what
Speaker 2: this defense looks like on paper. Greg it's because he
Speaker 2: is supposed to and has the expectation of being able
Speaker 2: to free up Chris Jones because he's acquiring more of
Speaker 2: the double teams. Chris Jones was like at a thirty
Speaker 2: eight percent double team rate. Kyrie's Tanga didn't play every
Speaker 2: snap he's for the Patriots and missed a game or two,
Speaker 2: but he also was double teamed like on half of
Speaker 2: the snaps that he did play, So he's going to
Speaker 2: be eating up that extra attention. If you can rush better,
Speaker 2: even if you could move the pocket better like they
Speaker 2: want to with Chris Jones from the interior, your secondary
Speaker 2: is going to be better. Your life is not as
Speaker 2: hard for those young guys. Steve Spagnolo has a has
Speaker 2: a better table set for him. So I can see
Speaker 2: the I'm a little dubious.
Speaker 1: I can see the vision, but I was surprised Tonga
Speaker 1: got such a big contract, especially from a team that
Speaker 1: doesn't have a lot of money to spend, Like he's
Speaker 1: a twenty five to thirty snap a game guy for
Speaker 1: the Patriots, but he was really emerging. Yeah, and it's
Speaker 1: a body type and it's a it's a position that
Speaker 1: tends to age well and get better. Chris Jones, like
Speaker 1: his cap figure is so big. That was a contract
Speaker 1: that they almost felt like they had to give. But
Speaker 1: you know, it's bigger than Patrick Mahomes. It's way higher
Speaker 1: than anyone else at the position. And you mentioned, yeah
Speaker 1: that the edge spot is one of my things that
Speaker 1: could go wrong, which is you have Carl Loftis, who's
Speaker 1: kind of an average player, maybe a little above average,
Speaker 1: on a big contract too. And then at the other
Speaker 1: spot is one of the position battles. I never got
Speaker 1: to with CHOOKI was our Mason Thomas is like sneaky important.
Speaker 1: He's a second round pick and he's going to be
Speaker 1: batting Ashton Jilotti, their old first round pick. Felix in
Speaker 1: a d que Zama and those guys they just haven't
Speaker 1: hit for Brett Beach. He needs someone to hit our
Speaker 1: Mason Thomas.
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe because Felix and you said it better than
Speaker 2: I will just hasn't. Injury has been some of it,
Speaker 2: but just been underwhelming.
Speaker 1: Did you have a scheme dream?
Speaker 2: By the way, I do, And I'm really excited about it. Okay,
Speaker 2: Kenneth Walker obviously being there, they think that's going to
Speaker 2: fix so much of the offense and offense by the way,
Speaker 2: which I can't wait to watch some of the clips
Speaker 2: that we're going to get out of training camp because
Speaker 2: I want to see how much Patrick Mahomes is under
Speaker 2: center with Eric Banemy back and some of that twenty
Speaker 2: twenty two stuff that they did that really worked. But
Speaker 2: also because Kenneth Walker said in the off season he
Speaker 2: prefers to run from under center because he has so
Speaker 2: much more of a vision on the defensive backfield and
Speaker 2: on the linebackers when he can do that so he
Speaker 2: can set up He's very artistic the way that he runs.
Speaker 2: But I mentioned it the other day and I was
Speaker 2: really hoping to get into a bar with you with
Speaker 2: him on screens my favorite play from last year, A
Speaker 2: couple of my favorite plays from last year where the
Speaker 2: Seattle Seahawks featuring Kenneth Walker as the past at your
Speaker 2: on screens, he had the highest second highest EPA on
Speaker 2: screen passes of any running back who caught at least seven.
Speaker 2: It's a small sample size for running backs on screens.
Speaker 2: I understand that, Yeah, he made magic happen when he did,
Speaker 2: because he runs he treats it like he's running outside zone.
Speaker 2: So even if they change some of their blocking, even
Speaker 2: if they change some of the under center and the plan,
Speaker 2: even if they do those different things, they I suspect
Speaker 2: are going to treat the especially because of the way
Speaker 2: Kenneth Walker runs these screen passes and as an extension
Speaker 2: of how he hits those layers to the perimeter on
Speaker 2: outside zone runs, and he is absolutely so visual and
Speaker 2: like he's an artist when he does it. So I'm
Speaker 2: really excited, and I think it's why they didn't do
Speaker 2: more with their tight ends. I think it's why they
Speaker 2: didn't do more with their receivers because they think of
Speaker 2: how much of a factor he's going to be in
Speaker 2: the passing game.
Speaker 1: I picked Chris Jones as my most important non quarterback,
Speaker 1: but I think Kenneth Walker would also fit. They're really
Speaker 1: counting the lot yes on Kenneth Walker because Patrick Mahomes
Speaker 1: is not going to be able to run as much
Speaker 1: as he did a year ago coming off that torn
Speaker 1: acl look. The Seahawks had some seasons where they were
Speaker 1: counting a lot on Kenneth Walker too, and he didn't
Speaker 1: always come through like everything wasn't his Super Bowl MVP performance.
Speaker 1: He hasn't been like the guy the guy, and they
Speaker 1: were a team last year that was still good running
Speaker 1: in short yardage, but they had no explosiveness. They bring
Speaker 1: back Eric b Enemy, So again, if you're just kind
Speaker 1: of tuning in, you know, they're long time offensive coordinator
Speaker 1: who hasn't been with the team for a few years.
Speaker 1: They're expecting his return to help the running game, to
Speaker 1: help the details, to help the offense. And I think
Speaker 1: that could happen and all connected to that. My number
Speaker 1: one thing is things could go wrong. Of where things
Speaker 1: would go wrong is if the offensive line is an
Speaker 1: elite and this is my way of saying, I think
Speaker 1: they could be elite, you know, like if you're creating
Speaker 1: a path for them to win the division, to go
Speaker 1: deep in the playoffs, it's that the offensive line is
Speaker 1: the best in the league or close to it. I
Speaker 1: think that's a reasonable thing to hope for Josh Simmons.
Speaker 1: You know, he has the potential. We'll see could he
Speaker 1: be the next like Laramie Tunzel type of player, Like
Speaker 1: I think he could. We'll see it. They already have
Speaker 1: an all prone in Creed Humphrey. They have a guard
Speaker 1: they love in Trey Smith's who Mattea got better. They
Speaker 1: have a highly paid right like with the enemy there
Speaker 1: if their elite, everything else gets like, yeah, those wide
Speaker 1: receivers that we don't love, they look better. Mahomes's injury
Speaker 1: is less of a big deal. The running game like
Speaker 1: they could, they hold the ball more. Everything is better,
Speaker 1: and I think it's possible that, to me is the
Speaker 1: route to them being the Chiefs again.
Speaker 2: The one red flag I have about this because I
Speaker 2: think true and I you know me, I came in
Speaker 2: here fired up last offseason a Josh Simmons believer saying
Speaker 2: a team is going to get an absolute steal on him.
Speaker 2: It so far looks that way other than you know,
Speaker 2: you need to count on him for a full season,
Speaker 2: and so that's that's a factor after you missed part
Speaker 2: of last season with personal stuff going on. My red
Speaker 2: flag is right tackle right, because everyone, all the local
Speaker 2: beat writers are talking down there right now out how
Speaker 2: Jalen Moore is actually going to have competition. Andy Reid
Speaker 2: is not. Maybe it's a motivational thing. Andy Reid has
Speaker 2: not just said this is our starting five and Jalen
Speaker 2: Moore is.
Speaker 1: They're paying in fifteen million dollars right.
Speaker 2: He came from seeing and Asapol and even Khalil Benson
Speaker 2: were actually thought to be legitimately in the mix for
Speaker 2: that job, and so this is going to be interesting.
Speaker 2: They say that at Kansas City Chief training camp, you
Speaker 2: could pretty much tell right away in the early days
Speaker 2: of the practices because they're so grueling. Basically who Andy
Speaker 2: Reid wants there full time. I think it's probably rare
Speaker 2: that someone loses their job after they start out that
Speaker 2: way if they if they perform well, so we'll know
Speaker 2: very soon about what that will look like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do worry about that a little bit. They've
Speaker 1: been able to coach it up over the years. It's
Speaker 1: been a little more up and down the last few years.
Speaker 1: My most important ne quarterback, as I mentioned was, was
Speaker 1: Chris Jones, just because the way their team salary cap
Speaker 1: structure is, they just don't have superstars on defense. Delane
Speaker 1: maybe could be that guy. His play was a little
Speaker 1: down last year, but not that far down, like he
Speaker 1: was averaging about eighty eighty five pressures a season in
Speaker 1: the regular season. In the three years before that, he
Speaker 1: was down to sixty eight last year, like just down,
Speaker 1: but not that far down. They just have to have
Speaker 1: him be incredible and so that's why he's important. Where
Speaker 1: was did you have a things go wrong? If as
Speaker 1: we get well.
Speaker 2: I think I've kind of said it as I've gone
Speaker 2: I do want to tell you it's sort of a
Speaker 2: land yap kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Let's go.
Speaker 2: It's just this trickeration that Andy Reid likes to do.
Speaker 2: It goes back to Mike Kenneth Walker and our point
Speaker 2: that how much of a factor he's going to be
Speaker 2: in the offense. There are certain things that Kenneth Walker
Speaker 2: does and that they could design with him. In Seattle
Speaker 2: last year, that one really set up bait essentially, and
Speaker 2: we often see past blockers bait the rusher. We see
Speaker 2: that all the time, blitz pick ups, things like that.
Speaker 2: There's a play a twenty yard gain in the first
Speaker 2: quarter of Seahawks forty nine ers in Week eighteen. He
Speaker 2: fakes like he's going to pick up the blocker, a
Speaker 2: totally typical, you know, fake blitz pick up where you're
Speaker 2: baiting the delayed rusher. It's because they saw that San
Speaker 2: Francisco was going to send an extra rusher late. So
Speaker 2: delayed Blitz, so Kenneth Walker basically just like swung open
Speaker 2: the door for that guy just popped out in the
Speaker 2: middle and there was like a little he had to
Speaker 2: sell it. It was a trickeration almost like he had
Speaker 2: to he had to really commit to it, step out
Speaker 2: of the way of the train just in time. And
Speaker 2: then they obviously have the math advantage on that side
Speaker 2: for the screen the tunnel screen at that point because
Speaker 2: he has numbers back into the pocket trying to get
Speaker 2: to the quarterback. That's like tricky stuff. That's the way
Speaker 2: you have to sell those things. Andy Reid and Patrick
Speaker 2: Mahomes love that stuff. That was my little land yep
Speaker 2: of like, oh, I could really see that working there
Speaker 2: if it worked in Seattle with Sam Darnold, like with
Speaker 2: Patrick Mahomes and the ballsmanship, like I could one hundred
Speaker 2: percent see that working.
Speaker 1: It used to be a cliche what's Andy Reid gonna
Speaker 1: show early in the season that everyone is going to
Speaker 1: stop start copying? Like what's Andy Reid got in his
Speaker 1: back pocket in September? Not saying you know he's getting
Speaker 1: older here, but has he had that the last few years?
Speaker 1: I don't know. We're out of time but like we
Speaker 1: could use Andy Reid, like getting some schematic groove back
Speaker 1: because on the show, I don't think they're the most
Speaker 1: talented team in the world. All right. I guess how
Speaker 1: we're doing it now is like we use the twelve
Speaker 1: minutes to talk Eric and then we do the ceiling floor.
Speaker 2: At what did I say? What did I say of it?
Speaker 1: This connor Or our friend at Sports Illustrated, And he
Speaker 1: had the call I saw as I'm walking through the
Speaker 1: newsroom on Wednesday that Fox Sports has a whole segment
Speaker 1: about connor Or wrote down fourteen teams for Sports Illustrated
Speaker 1: that have a chance to win the Super Bowl, and
Speaker 1: he did not have the Chiefs as one of his.
Speaker 2: Ohoh so you know who? I bet that made mad
Speaker 2: Nick right?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah, they had a whole segment about it.
Speaker 1: That's why I know I disagree with Connor. They would
Speaker 1: be on my list of teams that could win the
Speaker 1: Super Bowl. And that is almost entirely in my almost
Speaker 1: blind faith in Patrick Mahomes and him being able to
Speaker 1: prove a lot of people wrong when you least expect it, Andy,
Speaker 1: Andy Reid and enough talent still there. So the ceiling
Speaker 1: to me is that's the very high ceiling. But I
Speaker 1: think winning the division is a realistic goal. It is
Speaker 1: more likely that they become a normal team, and a
Speaker 1: normal team. It's like, we're fighting to make the playoffs,
Speaker 1: and there's a world where we don't make the playoffs.
Speaker 1: But whether they are still the Chiefs Capital Chiefs like
Speaker 1: we will find out. I don't think that's the most
Speaker 1: likely outcome.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they're a worst team collectively over all
Speaker 2: in their build than the Denver Broncos or the Los
Speaker 2: Angeles Chargers, So that automatically puts their floor super low
Speaker 2: for me because of the division that they're in. Right,
Speaker 2: But I have in my notes once again, this team
Speaker 2: will go as far as Patrick Mahomes takes them. The
Speaker 2: thing that so many of those teams that are sort
Speaker 2: of middle right don't have are an exceptional, extraordinary quarterback.
Speaker 2: And so for me, if he's right, if he stays
Speaker 2: right like that is there's no limit to what's possible
Speaker 2: when he is your quarterback.
Speaker 1: And yet, yeah, coming off of torn acl you just
Speaker 1: glance over that, like, we don't know for sure that
Speaker 1: he's back week one. We don't know what he's going
Speaker 1: to be like during the season. That's what we expect.
Speaker 1: You know, we've seen great quarterbacks come back from torn
Speaker 1: acls and not quite be the same, including you know,
Speaker 1: the guy who has the closest career to him, Tom
Speaker 1: Brady was was not wasn't bad, but it wasn't quite
Speaker 1: his best.
Speaker 2: Go had to change his play style a little bit in.
Speaker 1: Two thousand and nine and it was one of the
Speaker 1: only season they won eleven games, but they did not
Speaker 1: make the playoffs that year with Tom Brady. That was
Speaker 1: the off season ride along presented by Toyota because when
Speaker 1: people are the destination, your ride is important. Learn more
Speaker 1: at Toyota dot com and find the vehicle that fits
Speaker 1: your people. Let's talk about the Loss Vegas Raiders. Oh my, Now,
Speaker 1: if you haven't been paying attention, this was one of
Speaker 1: the most active teams. Not only did they sign NFL
Speaker 1: Daily guests Clint Kopiak to be their coach, you know,
Speaker 1: right after we talked to him after the Super Bowl,
Speaker 1: but they signed Tyler Linderbaum, big time center, like reset
Speaker 1: the market. They replaced like who was it at linebacker
Speaker 1: last year that it was ridiculous? Was playing like oh
Speaker 1: the void, yes, just a total void. And then you
Speaker 1: give a lot of money to Nikobe Dean and Kuay Walker.
Speaker 1: They somehow kept Max Crosby by mistake after trying to
Speaker 1: trade them. They now have a surplus of passers. They
Speaker 1: signed Quitty pay. They brought back Mountain Koont's like a
Speaker 1: lot of off season moves. They signed Jalen Naylor, who
Speaker 1: was a receiver with the Vikings, w will play a
Speaker 1: big role here. So this is a team that was
Speaker 1: very active. They look a lot different than they did
Speaker 1: when they ended last season the new look Raiders. What's
Speaker 1: bringing you joy?
Speaker 2: I like watching a bad team try to get good.
Speaker 2: That really you. I love team building. I love team building.
Speaker 2: I like chananging processes. I like trying to understand how
Speaker 2: processes are changing, how coaching methods are changing, which I
Speaker 2: think is a big one here. Just I think that
Speaker 2: this scheme lifts a lot of players that are already
Speaker 2: on the roster, which we'll get to. But just like
Speaker 2: I just like watching. We don't know how this is
Speaker 2: gonna go. I like watching a bad team try to
Speaker 2: get good.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting because they kept their GM. John Spytech, what.
Speaker 2: Does that say about me psychologically? No?
Speaker 1: I think that makes you gave me a little concern. Look,
Speaker 1: you're into the front office. Maybe you can imagine if
Speaker 1: you were going to be somewhere in the NFL, it
Speaker 1: would be in the front office. You like the process,
Speaker 1: you love process.
Speaker 2: I do love process, and.
Speaker 1: Part of the Raiders process was to keep John Spytech,
Speaker 1: who was the GM, and so they actually did keep
Speaker 1: a decent amount of their players from last year in
Speaker 1: terms of like the middle class, but they brought in
Speaker 1: a lot of money. What's bringing me joy is just Mendoza.
Speaker 1: I mean he is a walking ball of joy. True's
Speaker 1: I got too carried away. This is a franchise that
Speaker 1: just hasn't had a lot of hope. I know Derek
Speaker 1: Carr was a franchise quarterback, but I never believed in
Speaker 1: him as a difference maker. As a difference maker, I
Speaker 1: just didn't. This is I don't think people realize how
Speaker 1: bad the Raiders have been for a team that is
Speaker 1: I would say the second most popular team in the NFL.
Speaker 1: They have had a winning record twice since they made
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl. That was in two thousand and two.
Speaker 1: Do the math.
Speaker 2: How old were you during that?
Speaker 1: I was ten, I was I don't know, twenty three
Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, like that was twenty two years ago,
Speaker 1: twenty three years ago, they've had a winning record twice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like Mendoza just he gives him a chance. That the
Speaker 1: word is that Kirk Cousins is gonna be the quarterback
Speaker 1: all year. I just don't believe that. If he looks good,
Speaker 1: we'll see, Like and I just don't believe Kirk Counins
Speaker 1: would even stay healthy for an entire year anyways. They
Speaker 1: know that in the back of their head. By the way, anyways, like,
Speaker 1: what are the odds that Kirk Cousins at this age
Speaker 1: stays healthy? What keeps you going? When it comes to
Speaker 1: the scheme.
Speaker 2: Well party, I mean, Colton Miller is going to be
Speaker 2: back in terms of protection, but in particular, it seemed
Speaker 2: like some of the moves that they did make, including
Speaker 2: Tyler Linderbaum, was specifically for to help buoy the run.
Speaker 2: And obviously that's a young quarterback's best friend, having a
Speaker 2: center like that. But he's supposed to help grade the road.
Speaker 2: He's not necessarily known for his past protection, right, so like.
Speaker 1: He will help I've heard road grader. I don't know
Speaker 1: if I've ever heard grade the road.
Speaker 2: That's the active verse. Yeah, that's the active.
Speaker 1: Sid I think, where are you going, Tyler? I'm going
Speaker 1: to go grade the road.
Speaker 2: Grade the road. Hey, I think that for me, I'm
Speaker 2: really curious about, Like you mentioned that middle class of players.
Speaker 2: I think that there are some traits that they seem
Speaker 2: to draft for that didn't make sense at all once
Speaker 2: we saw what Chip Kelly's scheme actually was going to be,
Speaker 2: including some of the receivers, Jack Besch being a prime
Speaker 2: example of that, who sort of projected as like this
Speaker 2: power slot who's going to do a lot of work
Speaker 2: away from the ball. That is what a Kubiak family
Speaker 2: offense is going to ask of the receiver, and certainly
Speaker 2: of the type although I think they're gonna use brock
Speaker 2: Bowers in every way possible. But that is what I'm
Speaker 2: curious about. Can this scheme, and that's probably what they're
Speaker 2: waiting to see, is can this scheme elevate some of
Speaker 2: the skill guys that otherwise would have wasted draft picks on.
Speaker 1: Ashton Genty was a top ten pick last year that
Speaker 1: might have been more of a Peak Carroll pick, and
Speaker 1: yet they could maximize him with their offensive line. If
Speaker 1: you're looking for a ray of hope, this maybe doesn't
Speaker 1: fit into any particular category, but they drafted a couple
Speaker 1: guys in the third round last year on the offensive line.
Speaker 1: They got playing time late last season sitting what was it,
Speaker 1: Caleb Rogers, another one this year in trade soon. You
Speaker 1: look at the offensive line in general, Jackson powers Johnson
Speaker 1: is there. You have Colton Miller, you have Linderbaum, you
Speaker 1: have dj gl like you have depth. I think if
Speaker 1: John Spytech can feel quietly good about something related to
Speaker 1: the team build, he's like, this offensive line might be
Speaker 1: something that we have fail safes. If there's injuries, it's
Speaker 1: going to be an identity people don't know. Maybe it's
Speaker 1: our identity yet, kind of like with his old team,
Speaker 1: the Bucks, like it was quietly built into their identity.
Speaker 1: And that makes everyone skill position wise better, including gent
Speaker 1: who didn't wow me last year, and including all the
Speaker 1: receivers you mentioned Jack Besh. It's a pretty underwhelming receiver group.
Speaker 1: It's Jack Best, Trey Tucker, and Jalen Naylor as their
Speaker 1: top three wide receivers. Bowers is their one, and you
Speaker 1: have Michael Mayer at tight end too, So you have
Speaker 1: some depth, but it's not a lot of star power.
Speaker 2: I think, and again talking sematically, you have to give
Speaker 2: those guys a second job. Those guys have to exist
Speaker 2: in large part to spring your talent skills open and
Speaker 2: Ashon Janty in the past game is a talent skill,
Speaker 2: and especially some of those like heavy power screens that
Speaker 2: you would see Clint Kubiak run at the start of
Speaker 2: last season and then went away from it because people
Speaker 2: were starting to scout them loading up in twelve personnel
Speaker 2: four by one with both of your tight ends and
Speaker 2: your heavy power slot in Cooper Cup on the one side.
Speaker 2: My favorite play I saw all last season, and it's
Speaker 2: a screen and they layer it out all down the
Speaker 2: field like they're doing a micro version of an outside
Speaker 2: zone run, and it's Kenneth Walker just like skipping his
Speaker 2: way down the field freely, untouched. Ashton Jenty can run
Speaker 2: in space. I trust him maybe less, you know, I
Speaker 2: just need to see more. I need to see more.
Speaker 2: But he can run in space, and I think that
Speaker 2: is where you're gonna try to maximize it.
Speaker 1: Well, you talk about road Grady, and I think this
Speaker 1: is a good looking offensive line in terms of running
Speaker 1: the ball. No running back in the league maybe was
Speaker 1: less suited than Ashton Gendy to deal with that terrible
Speaker 1: offensive line because ultimately he's not Kenneth Walker. He's not
Speaker 1: gonna make you miss in a phone booth. He is
Speaker 1: going to run you over. He will get broken tackles
Speaker 1: and miss tackles, but he needs a little bit of
Speaker 1: a runway, like a Derrick Henry for him to do
Speaker 1: his best. And I think they could be that type
Speaker 1: of offensive line. My scheme dream here is just pointing
Speaker 1: out who their defensive coordinator is. It's thirty eight year
Speaker 1: year old Rob Leonard, who they know because he was
Speaker 1: on the staff and they decided to keep him. But
Speaker 1: he's never called plays before, and I think quietly it
Speaker 1: was a big loss, you know, changing defensive coordinators because
Speaker 1: as average as their defensive you know performance was a
Speaker 1: year ago. I actually think they were pretty well coached up.
Speaker 1: And so you have a first time coordinator in Rob Leonard,
Speaker 1: who's going to have to show he has more talent
Speaker 1: to work with. I mentioned up front, you know they're
Speaker 1: much better. They're pretty deep in terms of their pass rush.
Speaker 1: Now with Crosby.
Speaker 2: Kept Max Crosby, right, you kept Max Case.
Speaker 1: You're under a Rosby and you're paying a lot of
Speaker 1: money at linebackers that could go a few directions, but
Speaker 1: you know, we got to see it's a guy who's
Speaker 1: never done it before in Rob Leonard.
Speaker 2: Yes, double edged coin there too, because yeah, that's going
Speaker 2: to be a sort of a baptism by fire essentially,
Speaker 2: but it's also totally unscouted, like what is his system right,
Speaker 2: and it's not going to be probably anything quite like
Speaker 2: the tree quote unquote that he comes from. I think
Speaker 2: when we're talking about all this stuff, like, I think
Speaker 2: that this team overall, Greg is going to have to
Speaker 2: be really scheme heavy, Like they're gonna have to because
Speaker 2: they're just talent that we know of so far. Until
Speaker 2: we see some of these guys develop as the course
Speaker 2: of the system, as the course of the season continues.
Speaker 2: I just think they're gonna have to get the best
Speaker 2: out of putting guys in position to be successful. Like
Speaker 2: I mentioned, giving players multiple jobs to help spring open
Speaker 2: or create space for some of their stars. And we
Speaker 2: cannot leave this segment without talking about Brock Bauers, who
Speaker 2: is like a my real reason for joy be my
Speaker 2: land yapp see just.
Speaker 1: As most important on Quarterback's important.
Speaker 2: Most quarterback, which is what I said and I think
Speaker 2: I think that there's this sort of people are looking
Speaker 2: and I've done the same thing looking at some of
Speaker 2: the Seattle concepts last year. With that Clint Kubiak ran
Speaker 2: to try to get a sense of what they're gonna
Speaker 2: do and what kind of player brock Bowers will be
Speaker 2: in this offense. I think that might be the wrong
Speaker 2: place to look, because if you were going to take
Speaker 2: a J. Barnard Seattle tight end and put a jet
Speaker 2: pack on him and then like you know, double him
Speaker 2: or whatever, it's just not right. I think you look
Speaker 2: back at those twenty three twenty four George Kittle seasons
Speaker 2: where he goes over one thousand yards per season as
Speaker 2: a pass catcher, and the entire offense is re coordinated
Speaker 2: to funnel through what he does. He's a move player.
Speaker 2: He is doing really interesting things out of stacks in
Speaker 2: different formations. Yes, he's blocking in the run game as well,
Speaker 2: but that passing game really reverted out of need at
Speaker 2: that time to funnel through him. Clay Kubiak, excuse me,
Speaker 2: Clint Kubiak, Geez, there's a lot of freaking kubas he
Speaker 2: was he is following from that playbook. Is kubaks a
Speaker 2: kettle a kettle of kubiaks.
Speaker 1: Bowers is the best player on the team. I think
Speaker 1: he's better than Mack if I had to choose, you know,
Speaker 1: I take him over at Crosby and again he can
Speaker 1: open things up in a way that just others can't.
Speaker 1: I mean, he is a guy that has Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame hours. I love you. Man has like Hall of
Speaker 1: Fame talent and so hurt last year and it was
Speaker 1: hurt for parts of last year. Is not the biggest
Speaker 1: tight end in the world. I think things go wrong
Speaker 1: if the secondary gets fried. Yeah, you mentioned, you know,
Speaker 1: they've got to scheme things up. Patrick Graham was the
Speaker 1: coordinator I should have mentioned earlier that did a good job. Look,
Speaker 1: their number one corner is Eric Stokes. I said, a
Speaker 1: fourth round pick, Jumont McCoy, who has a lot of talent,
Speaker 1: could be battling for the other starting job. They drafted
Speaker 1: a player trading Stukes in the second round, who could
Speaker 1: be a slot, who could be a safety. They brought
Speaker 1: in Tarron Johnson who was good for the Bills, but
Speaker 1: they let go of them. I think for a reason,
Speaker 1: like it could work, but that's it's a pretty unproven
Speaker 1: secondary and it's also a linebacker group in Nikobe Dean
Speaker 1: and kway Walker who.
Speaker 2: That's a variance.
Speaker 1: Variance is right, Like they they have given up some
Speaker 1: big plays, They've made some big plays. They're getting paid
Speaker 1: a lot of money. So if things go wrong, I
Speaker 1: think it's that the past Russ doesn't even have enough
Speaker 1: time because the back end just is fried.
Speaker 2: Yeah, their defense minus you know, a couple of spots,
Speaker 2: including whatever side Max Crosby is lining up on to rush,
Speaker 2: is a huge red flag to me. Even what I understand,
Speaker 2: drop my pen. I understand why bringing in like those
Speaker 2: linebackers it makes sense to me. You know exactly who
Speaker 2: they are if you're the coach, like we don't know
Speaker 2: what it's gonna look like here. They know they can
Speaker 2: sort of level set around them. They need stability. They
Speaker 2: needed veterans on that side of the ball too, that
Speaker 2: are not just occupied up front on the line of scrimmage,
Speaker 2: that can communicate. Like I understand all of this, I
Speaker 2: just man, I don't. Last year was so rough through
Speaker 2: most of it for the Raiders. I don't think it
Speaker 2: can get any worse. But I do think that there's
Speaker 2: gonna be some real bumps for this defense along the way.
Speaker 1: I love the edge group with Crosby and could he
Speaker 1: pay as the two key run Crawford was a good
Speaker 1: draft pick. Malcolm Koons is a year healthier, so they
Speaker 1: have some talent. What is our ceiling and our floor
Speaker 1: for this team? What is success for the twenty twenty
Speaker 1: six Raiders progress?
Speaker 2: Right? I have him anywhere. I could see potentially four
Speaker 2: wins on their schedule. I could see him as high
Speaker 2: as six.
Speaker 1: Okay, I thought four was the ceiling. That's tough.
Speaker 2: Noo. Six four to six wins is sort of my
Speaker 2: range for them to.
Speaker 1: Me, And this is unfair. I'm taking the question in
Speaker 1: a different way. Success is just Mendoza.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well yeah, I mean, if you'd spent the.
Speaker 1: Refer t he's gonna play and if he just looks good.
Speaker 1: I mean, we've seen rookie quarterbacks be pretty promising right away,
Speaker 1: very recently in this league. CJ. Stroud, Jayden Daniel Like
Speaker 1: it happens if he goes out there, and whether whether
Speaker 1: it's early in the season or late, and he just
Speaker 1: looks good. I don't even care what the record is,
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's hard. It's hard with their schedule. The
Speaker 1: entire AFC West, like I mentioned, has to play the NFC.
Speaker 1: West's hard to imagine anything higher than seven or eight wins.
Speaker 1: But to me it, you know, it's just Mendoza. If
Speaker 1: Mendoza looks if if he only plays three games, but
Speaker 1: those three games are really promising, that's funny.
Speaker 2: So would you say he's your Mendoza line?
Speaker 1: Hey over under on Mendoza starts, I'm setting at twelve.
Speaker 2: Oh that's a lot more than I probably not by
Speaker 2: the hype. Yeah, I'm I'm going to say I don't.
Speaker 2: I have to go back and look when they're bye
Speaker 2: week is but i'd say after.
Speaker 1: The bye week sure, yeah, we will wrap up. And
Speaker 1: I think this is going great. I'm having a lot
Speaker 1: of fun.
Speaker 2: Jeordan with this next one, can we just like triple
Speaker 2: the time?
Speaker 1: Come on? We will be going to Chargers camp at
Speaker 1: one point, famously low budget here at NFL daily in
Speaker 1: terms of our early travel, so we travel to the
Speaker 1: places that are close. Uh, and the Chargers are like
Speaker 1: ten minutes away. We're going to go see the Chargers
Speaker 1: in a couple weeks so you can talk about them more.
Speaker 1: Sure then? Okay, Chargers coming off in eleven and sixth season,
Speaker 1: only seventeenth in DVOA last year, though, that kind of
Speaker 1: cut my eye.
Speaker 2: M hm.
Speaker 1: The bad playoff game is a factor. They really invested
Speaker 1: in getting their blocking better. They bring in Charlie Kohler,
Speaker 1: They hire Mike McDaniel, an offensive you know, running game wizard.
Speaker 1: They remade the entire interior of their offensive line. They
Speaker 1: signed Tyler Biattas, who's been a good center for Washington.
Speaker 1: They signed Cole Strange, who was in Miami with Mike McDaniel.
Speaker 1: They drafted Jake Slawder in the second round, and so yeah,
Speaker 1: they really emphasized getting a little tougher up front, like
Speaker 1: an old school Jim Harbaugh team, especially in terms of
Speaker 1: running the ball. That's just a little bit of an overview.
Speaker 1: We obviously can't hit everything here of where they're at
Speaker 1: entering the season, what is bringing you joy other than
Speaker 1: Mike McDaniel.
Speaker 2: This quote from tackle Rashaun Slater on the new blocking scheme.
Speaker 2: The rule is just get off and just go destroy
Speaker 2: everything in your path. So honestly, just fun to block,
Speaker 2: doesn't take too much thinking.
Speaker 1: That is a beautiful way to think about this Chargers team.
Speaker 1: And and yeah, all Joe allt They're left tackle and
Speaker 1: Rashaun Slater the right tackle. Them being back and us
Speaker 1: just being in the time of the year before anything
Speaker 1: horrible happens to the Chargers. It gives me joy. I'm
Speaker 1: always way too high.
Speaker 2: They realist in every time I do it. Every time willingly,
Speaker 2: willingly they tell me, girl, delete the number, and I
Speaker 2: just say, you know, but maybe I can, Maybe I
Speaker 2: can change them this year.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. And I don't know if you want
Speaker 1: to get into McDaniel in terms of scheme dream, but
Speaker 1: it is year three of this Jim Harbaugh build. I
Speaker 1: always think year three is the year for the new regimes.
Speaker 1: And I know it's the first year of McDaniel, but
Speaker 1: it's year three of Harbaugh. You have these tackles coming back.
Speaker 1: Like the vision of whatever this Harbaugh Joehorties team was
Speaker 1: supposed to be. It's now and they've had success. They've
Speaker 1: made they've made the playoffs and back to back seasons.
Speaker 1: But it's now, yeah, you know, and they're not third
Speaker 1: year forty nine ers Jim Harbaugh. And maybe that's they
Speaker 1: suffer a little bit because I'm always comparing them to
Speaker 1: those old forty nine it's not and they're not there,
Speaker 1: there's potential maybe, and tell tell us scheme wise how
Speaker 1: they could get that potential.
Speaker 2: Well, they got to run the ball better, which that
Speaker 2: you know, we've talked, we have talked, we will talk.
Speaker 2: I think so much more about this Mike McDaniel run
Speaker 2: game and what it's supposed to be. I think it
Speaker 2: will take some time to really see the full expression
Speaker 2: of what the run pass game with him is going
Speaker 2: to be because it's so detailed, and I just want
Speaker 2: to touch on it very briefly, the run part, the
Speaker 2: run game part of it, which you're smiling because you're like, brief.
Speaker 1: Moment whatever you say, very briefly, you're like.
Speaker 2: No, she's got paragraphs. Because I think they're going to
Speaker 2: use motion more. I mean, it's it's pretty obvious. It's
Speaker 2: you watch any of his other schemes on the in
Speaker 2: the run game specifically, the Chargers were not a really
Speaker 2: predominantly motion team, particularly not in the run game last
Speaker 2: season and certainly for the last few seasons. And I
Speaker 2: think with this because he uses tight end, tight ends
Speaker 2: and fullbacks to execute a lot of the motion concepts
Speaker 2: in the Run game specifically, that means he's he's changing
Speaker 2: gaps so your linebackers will shift or or they'll be
Speaker 2: staying stagnant and they won't rotate till after the snap.
Speaker 2: Against this team, particularly, you probably are going to have
Speaker 2: to try. Do you think they're running the ball counter
Speaker 2: rotating to where they're motioning, because otherwise a gap is
Speaker 2: going to be open. Because he uses the big guys
Speaker 2: to basically say, Okay, I'm gonna pick up this gap
Speaker 2: that I have and I'm gonna move it over here.
Speaker 2: And now the linebackers and the safeties do not know
Speaker 2: what gap they're supposed to be covering or they're out
Speaker 2: of their gap assignment because of the way that they end.
Speaker 2: So he does it with formations, big personnel. So that's
Speaker 2: what I think is part of what will make this
Speaker 2: run game so effective.
Speaker 1: And it's a lot to deal with, especially early in
Speaker 1: the season. One of my little land yap things was
Speaker 1: this is on paper, one of the toughest schedules in
Speaker 1: the entire NFL, but they open with their two easiest
Speaker 1: games on the entire schedule, Cardinals Raiders at home back
Speaker 1: to back. So that's like a nice little you better
Speaker 1: win those games. But I just think McDaniel has a
Speaker 1: lot to work with, Yeah, but also a lot to
Speaker 1: work on. Yes, new players, new tight ends, tackles, coming
Speaker 1: back from injury. Yes, it's just a lot, and it's
Speaker 1: a little bit of a prove it year for McDaniel
Speaker 1: in a way that to I think Aaron Shots pointed out, Well,
Speaker 1: he's not exactly a made man. Even we've never seen
Speaker 1: him as an offensive coordinator running his own offense. We've
Speaker 1: seen the Dolphins, but even as great as the Dolphins were,
Speaker 1: they never kept it going the whole season. They're often
Speaker 1: he's supposed to be an O line guy. The old
Speaker 1: line was up and down there. He's supposed to be
Speaker 1: a run game guy. It was great when it was great,
Speaker 1: but sometimes it was it was pretty bad. You know,
Speaker 1: like Tua gave him limitations, but it wasn't all perfect.
Speaker 1: So it's just a lot for him to do.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you said that because there are so many
Speaker 2: details where I'm not sure we see this. I think
Speaker 2: our expectations are so high for what this is. I'm
Speaker 2: not sure that this offense meets them immediately. I think
Speaker 2: over time it does, but immediately there's so many things.
Speaker 2: I mean, he changed justin Herbert's footwork, This year, and
Speaker 2: this goes into some of the passing game tweaks that
Speaker 2: they're doing. There's so much intricate, meticulous, small, tiny timing
Speaker 2: things that go into how he wants to do this.
Speaker 2: He does not have the speed that he had in Miami,
Speaker 2: but he's going to use space in very very similar ways.
Speaker 2: And so they flipped justin Herbert's foot front foot, so
Speaker 2: his left foot's forward now because in Mike McDaniel's mind
Speaker 2: has always been this way that you can get the
Speaker 2: ball out faster. Well, that can't just happen in a vacuum.
Speaker 2: What they will also do, and you'll see a lot
Speaker 2: of this, I think, is use motion with the receivers
Speaker 2: to inform a checkdown, not necessarily use motion to go
Speaker 2: on these long developing plays. Justin Herbert had very few answered,
Speaker 2: quick answers, quick options to mitigate pressure. That was some
Speaker 2: of the things that really drove fans crazy watching in
Speaker 2: some of these years. And what Mike McDaniel does differently
Speaker 2: about his checkdowns is he uses motion and he uses
Speaker 2: formation changes to set those up to where they can
Speaker 2: gain more yards out of a small pass when the
Speaker 2: quarterback's under pressure than they normally would as sort of
Speaker 2: a desperation option. So I think all that's so based
Speaker 2: on timing. It takes Its going to take some time.
Speaker 1: And Herbert's been a guy who likes to hold on
Speaker 1: to the ball and then make a big play, and
Speaker 1: I do think this could help him potentially stay healthier, Like,
Speaker 1: can we have a normal justin Herbert season? The story
Speaker 1: half the time is him just playing through some injury
Speaker 1: and being heroic about it. But you don't always want
Speaker 1: him to be a hero. I'll mention something we haven't
Speaker 1: mentioned yet in like the first five minutes they played
Speaker 1: defense for the charges too.
Speaker 2: It's so sweet that you think we've only gone five
Speaker 2: minutes now.
Speaker 1: I think that's true. Roughly. Chris O'Leary is their new
Speaker 1: defensive coordinator, so a lot of attention on Mike McDaniel,
Speaker 1: but they have two new coordinators. Jesse Minner was thought
Speaker 1: of as one of the best coordinators in the entire league,
Speaker 1: so these are big shoes to fill. They sent Chris O'Leary,
Speaker 1: who was with the staff before, to Western Michigan to
Speaker 1: try out some fun schematic stuff, and then they bring
Speaker 1: him back. It's like a farm system. What does he
Speaker 1: bring now? It's not an overwhelmingly talented defense. I don't
Speaker 1: think it's not an untalented defense. But when you're looking
Speaker 1: for real difference makers, you know, Derwin James is getting
Speaker 1: up there in years. But but is that guy Tully
Speaker 1: Poloto is a great edge, But is he you know,
Speaker 1: a great number one edge? You know, I think he's somewhere.
Speaker 1: He fits somewhere between like the twentieth and twenty fifth
Speaker 1: you know edge in the league. What they have is
Speaker 1: continuity of their eleven projected starters that I looked at.
Speaker 1: Ten were on the team last year, and most of
Speaker 1: them have been with the team for a couple of years.
Speaker 1: So I will get to kind of a larger point
Speaker 1: of like where this team can get better. But I
Speaker 1: do think like seeing what O'Leary has to play with
Speaker 1: because this was a very extreme team last year. They
Speaker 1: played with the lightest box in the league. They play
Speaker 1: the most six defensive backs in the league. Like, we'll
Speaker 1: see if he keeps that same style, well, I.
Speaker 2: Think he could be extra an extreme team in other
Speaker 2: ways too. Western Michigan they were scoring defense, so that's
Speaker 2: sort of feast or famine, right, And so I think
Speaker 2: that with they want him to be very much like
Speaker 2: Jesse Minter. That's that's my impression. But they also are
Speaker 2: they send down to the college game to work on
Speaker 2: some front structures and pressures and different types of spacing
Speaker 2: and flexing his mind about making game plans where the
Speaker 2: spacing is different at that level. That's what they've done,
Speaker 2: the Harbaughs have done now in this second like reinvention
Speaker 2: of them both in the NFL. And so I think
Speaker 2: that's what I'm curious about is how aggressive will this
Speaker 2: defense be? How much will it depend on what Chris
Speaker 2: O'Leary did in a very small sample size of actual
Speaker 2: defensive coordinator slash coaching that we've seen him do, game
Speaker 2: planning we've seen him do, And then will he continued
Speaker 2: to sort of operate this bespoke package for Derwin James
Speaker 2: like he helped build with Jesse Minter when he was
Speaker 2: first there.
Speaker 1: So that connects with my things go wrong if yeah,
Speaker 1: and to me, it's if the D fence looks sneaky old,
Speaker 1: you know, Derwin James, Khalil Mack, Dalvin Tomlinson, who is
Speaker 1: the one news starter that they brought in. Tony Jefferson
Speaker 1: might not start, but he's going to have a big role.
Speaker 1: Denzel Perryman, Dante Jackson's like about thirty. Even their draft
Speaker 1: picks a key Messidor is old. You know, he's like
Speaker 1: twenty six year old rookie, So that that worries me
Speaker 1: a little bit. They have some young players on the roster,
Speaker 1: and this is a more overall kind of idea I'll
Speaker 1: throw at you with the Chargers. To me, the only
Speaker 1: way they're as good as we think they're gonna be
Speaker 1: is if they're younger players, specifically on offense really turn
Speaker 1: into some of those great pillars that his old forty
Speaker 1: nine ers teams have. And that means Joe all actually
Speaker 1: being like the best left tackle, and rashond On Slater
Speaker 1: fulfilling his potential and lad McConkie really taking a step
Speaker 1: up and Herbert taking a step up. When I looked
Speaker 1: at like areas for improvement for this team, it's the
Speaker 1: young receiver too. It's I think, especially on offense, like
Speaker 1: they just need to develop these guys and there's been
Speaker 1: a lot of potential on this team, Like that's the
Speaker 1: only way they're gonna be as good as we think
Speaker 1: they are as all of those young dudes taking a
Speaker 1: big step up.
Speaker 2: Yeah. They I really was sort of of just gobsmacked
Speaker 2: by this when I went to their camp last year
Speaker 2: as the man they passed the eye test. They are
Speaker 2: massive at every position, even they're smaller receivers like tray hairs,
Speaker 2: like they are giant players like everywhere. They've got all
Speaker 2: this size, they've got mismatched personnel, they've got all the
Speaker 2: kinds of new fangled ways you want to play offense
Speaker 2: and all the kinds of old school plays ways that
Speaker 2: you want to play offense. And with Mike McDaniel, you
Speaker 2: know they're gonna match it all together and I'll be fine.
Speaker 2: But I think if things do go wrong, it's because
Speaker 2: collectively it takes too long, first of all, for all
Speaker 2: these little detailed things to happen, which I know is
Speaker 2: why you wanted to bring in alec Ingold and Charlie Kolar,
Speaker 2: because those are two guys who can kind of jump start.
Speaker 1: That block full back and a block cafe full.
Speaker 2: Back and a blocking titan who can catch the ball,
Speaker 2: who are going to activate that entire surface run in pass.
Speaker 1: And then I.
Speaker 2: Know, I almost got a tattooed on me this offseason.
Speaker 2: I was on PTO, you know, wild times, it was
Speaker 2: really like, it's really like if if it takes too long,
Speaker 2: it almost might be too late, right because everything is
Speaker 2: going to be so competitive in that entire division, And
Speaker 2: I don't think it. I don't think fans should mind
Speaker 2: if it takes longer than they expected. I think expectations
Speaker 2: are out of the gate. They kick doors down. But
Speaker 2: if it if it starts to delay a little too much,
Speaker 2: like that's when people are going to start to get
Speaker 2: real restless about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have Lad McConkie kind of representing that entire
Speaker 1: group as the most important non quarterback of all these
Speaker 1: younger guys who have a ceiling they could get to.
Speaker 1: But I feel like they're going to all need to
Speaker 1: do it together, you know, Rondi Gadson's in that mix,
Speaker 1: some of their young cornerbacks, Cam Hart, Like they all
Speaker 1: need to kind of grow up together.
Speaker 2: Grow up. Do you know what my land yap is
Speaker 2: Their tight ends room is Aronde Gadson, Charlie Colar and
Speaker 2: David Nijoku. If that doesn't make you smile, I don't
Speaker 2: know what would.
Speaker 1: That's pretty good in the running back room with Amari
Speaker 1: and Hampton and Kamani Vitel and Keaton Mitchell. All. I
Speaker 1: love how in both those rooms they're all doing different things.
Speaker 1: It's not a star studded skill group, but it's very deep.
Speaker 1: Herbert has more than enough around them. Yeah, we can't
Speaker 1: make the excuses this year. All right, Ceiling and floor
Speaker 1: for this team if you were doing the exercise, and
Speaker 1: maybe Connor's way of thinking about it is instructive and helpful,
Speaker 1: and we'll do it that way. Like would you put
Speaker 1: them on that list of teams that could win the
Speaker 1: Super Bowl?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I would too. I think they're like
Speaker 1: they're reasonable. Ceiling is winning the division certainly, like having
Speaker 1: a home playoff game or two. And the floor is
Speaker 1: that they're the freaking Chargers. Like it's amazing how much
Speaker 1: has gone wrong injury wise for Jim Harbough and yet
Speaker 1: they've won eleven games the last couple of years. But
Speaker 1: the floor is that just disaster strikes. Yeah, yeah, even
Speaker 1: if healthy, like they could be third place in this division.
Speaker 1: I would say that for all three teams. I don't
Speaker 1: think there's that much separation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have big depth questions about them on off
Speaker 2: the offensive line and on defense like you mentioned, but really, yeah,
Speaker 2: their ceiling is about as high as any team with
Speaker 2: talent in the league, and certainly with that exceptional quarterback.
Speaker 2: Their floor is what wild stuff is going to haunt
Speaker 2: us this year. As it pertains to the Los Angeles Chargers.
Speaker 1: We've reached the part of the show I was most
Speaker 1: fearing slotting the division in. No, I really have to
Speaker 1: come up with it, because I don't want to be
Speaker 1: picking things just because oh, well, everyone's going to be
Speaker 1: doing this, or you know, like or picking just what
Speaker 1: you want to root for. But I do that a
Speaker 1: little bit because you like, why not. You don't know
Speaker 1: if you're going to be right or wrong anyway, so
Speaker 1: you might as well you go first, one to four.
Speaker 2: One to four. I'm going Broncos, Chargers, Chiefs, Raiders.
Speaker 1: I have this feeling about the Broncos that the season
Speaker 1: when the expectations are so high, when everyone agrees it's
Speaker 1: like the best roster, when nothing's changed, when the last
Speaker 1: season ended with some like bad luck loss, and then
Speaker 1: everyone just kind of pencils you in the next year.
Speaker 1: It's just setting you up for big disappointment. And so
Speaker 1: I don't know how or why it's not going to
Speaker 1: work for them, but I have them third in the
Speaker 1: race for third, and that might just be like a
Speaker 1: ten win season or whatever. But I hate the teams
Speaker 1: that are like that and they just expect to start.
Speaker 2: It's not beating the allegations.
Speaker 1: Not beating the allegation.
Speaker 2: It's not beating the allegations.
Speaker 1: Although I've been called many times in my socials a
Speaker 1: Chiefs hater and just like way too in the bag
Speaker 1: for the Chargers, but I do have this gut feeling
Speaker 1: that I'm going to go with is I'm going to
Speaker 1: take the Chiefs to just find a way this year
Speaker 1: and win this division. And so I think if, if
Speaker 1: and when NFL dot Com asked me, and I think
Speaker 1: they will to prick all the playoff teams, I'll probably
Speaker 1: put all three of these teams in, but I will
Speaker 1: put it in order, Chiefs, Chargers, Broncos and then Raiders.
Speaker 1: H Give me the Chiefs in a season where they're
Speaker 1: like not expected to win the thing, I just.
Speaker 2: Well, and then they do that. Nobody believes in us
Speaker 2: except for Greg Rosenthal. No, I think this is a
Speaker 2: master takesmanship. By the way, by the way you taught
Speaker 2: me about this, Yeah, I do believe it. I do
Speaker 2: think I do think that they're all they all are.
Speaker 2: All three of those are playoff teams.
Speaker 1: I do think that, and I do think they're all
Speaker 1: about the same. And it seems like a cop out,
Speaker 1: but I really think the top of the AFC and
Speaker 1: I would put these teams in it. It's a pretty
Speaker 1: even six or seven teams, and I think these are
Speaker 1: three of those teams that should feel really good about themselves.
Speaker 1: And then the Raiders. You got a kid to be
Speaker 1: excited about. I'm excited to do the rest of these
Speaker 1: division previews. Now we nailed it. I know.
Speaker 2: I signed myself up for so many of them.
Speaker 1: That's how we want to do it. All Jordan, all
Speaker 1: the time, all gas, no breaks, well especially before you
Speaker 1: do some of your training camp tour. That's it for
Speaker 1: our week. But as you hinted at, we're doing the
Speaker 1: NFC West. We decided to do West is Best first,
Speaker 1: and so that division preview is coming on Monday, in
Speaker 1: addition to a bunch of training camp news. It's going
Speaker 1: to be happening. Teams are showing up Seattle, the Patriots,
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl teams will be there on Monday. Calculam mhmm.