Speaker 1: This is me, Craig Ferguson.
Speaker 2: I'm inviting you to come and see my brand new
Speaker 2: comedy hour. Well it's actually it's about an hour and
Speaker 2: a half and I don't have an opener because these
Speaker 2: guys cost money. But what I'm saying is I'll be
Speaker 2: on stage for a while. Anyway, come and see me
Speaker 2: live on the Pants on Fire Tour in your region.
Speaker 2: Tickets our own sale now, and we'll be adding more
Speaker 2: as the tour continues throughout twenty twenty five and beyond.
Speaker 2: For a full list of dates, go to the Craig
Speaker 2: Ferguson show dot com.
Speaker 1: See you on the road, my DearS.
Speaker 2: My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast
Speaker 2: is Joy. I talk to interesting people about what brings
Speaker 2: them happiness. Meet Rita Wilson. She's a producer, she's an actress,
Speaker 2: and she's a hell of a laugh. I was just
Speaker 2: thinking on the way here today, I thought, because the
Speaker 2: traffic was bad, I know, you know, that was bad.
Speaker 1: I was.
Speaker 2: I was a little grumpy, and I thought, I'm a
Speaker 2: bit grumpy today. I'm a little I'm a man called
Speaker 2: great today.
Speaker 1: That was such a great film, which one the man
Speaker 1: called Auto.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that.
Speaker 1: Was a man called Crege. I was like, I was
Speaker 1: very cranky. Yeah, how did you find that?
Speaker 3: Fortunately it came in a DVD packet through the Academy.
Speaker 1: It was another movie.
Speaker 3: Then it was I saw the Swedish film.
Speaker 1: First, I think you got the script or something.
Speaker 3: No, we developed the script, but I found it through
Speaker 3: the Swedish movie, and then I realized there was a
Speaker 3: book to it, so immediately tried to get the rights
Speaker 3: to the book, which we were able to do and
Speaker 3: then got a great team together.
Speaker 1: I love that movie really good. I love that movie.
Speaker 2: Youreed the movie right, produced it okay, which, as everybody knows,
Speaker 2: if you're really into your business, you know you really
Speaker 2: did the job.
Speaker 3: You know what, it can be unequivocally honest about that
Speaker 3: and say y's true.
Speaker 2: It is because the only one time I directed a
Speaker 2: movie and I didn't produce it, I've only gone like
Speaker 2: three or something, but I directed a movie and I
Speaker 2: was like, this is everybody's telling me stuff and they're
Speaker 2: getting my way. Now I realized the people that were
Speaker 2: getting my way with the producers, and I'm much happier
Speaker 2: being the producer than being the director.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's true. So let me ask you, because there
Speaker 1: was I think I.
Speaker 2: Wanted to ask you about, which is You're the only
Speaker 2: person I know. Now I'll preface this by saying, I
Speaker 2: have become fascinated recently with pre Roman Church Christianity. Oh
Speaker 2: just fascinated by it. I reading everything I can about it.
Speaker 2: I've become totally obsessed with it, as is my one.
Speaker 2: And you're the only person I know who I think
Speaker 2: is in the Greek Orthodox Church?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Which is the split? Now?
Speaker 2: You tell me, you tell me what's the difference between
Speaker 2: If you can and I'm not. I don't want to
Speaker 2: for show it theological, but I know that this split
Speaker 2: happened round about.
Speaker 3: You can't. I'm so bad at history, really am. But
Speaker 3: I will tell you what I believe is what I
Speaker 3: understand to be some of the differences. And in Greek Orthodoxy,
Speaker 3: which was the older religion, right, the Byzantine exactly was
Speaker 3: before Catholicism, before the schism. What what happened in the schism,
Speaker 3: I think is that the Catholics wanted to form a
Speaker 3: different form of Christianity. And what Greek orthodox don't have
Speaker 3: is a pope, So we don't have a person that
Speaker 3: we say this, you're the top guy and everybody you
Speaker 3: know you talk directly to.
Speaker 1: God, which the Christians didn't.
Speaker 3: Have either, right, and so I I think that's one
Speaker 3: of the differences. Secondly, this is my own observation, having
Speaker 3: a lot of Catholic friends and going to a lot
Speaker 3: of Catholic churches in my youth. Is in the Greek
Speaker 3: Orthodox Church, we don't really focus so much on the
Speaker 3: crucifixion as we do the resurrection. And I think that's
Speaker 3: interesting because if you walk into a Greek Orthodox cathedral
Speaker 3: or church, you often will see pictures of Christ carrying
Speaker 3: the cross on his back, or you will see pictures
Speaker 3: of Him with the disciples or the apostles. There is
Speaker 3: always a story told of the life of Jesus in
Speaker 3: the church, and there you will find one picture of
Speaker 3: Him on the cross being crucified.
Speaker 1: So it's part of the story, is not.
Speaker 3: Like yeah, which I think is just I don't know
Speaker 3: if that's my own an observation or if that there's
Speaker 3: intention to that.
Speaker 2: You know what I noticed when I was in Italy
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago. I go there a lot
Speaker 2: because I love it, and I noticed that the beautiful artwork,
Speaker 2: you know, in the Vatican or in the bigger Catholic
Speaker 2: churches in Italy. The very impressive artwork is not mirrored
Speaker 2: in the rural churches, and you can see some really
Speaker 2: crap pictures. Like I was like the church and I
Speaker 2: was like, what's that? Listen, that's this is the crucifixion
Speaker 2: of our Lord Jesus.
Speaker 1: I'm like, that to me, looks like a bear climate
Speaker 1: of fence. It doesn't look anything like it.
Speaker 2: And I love the idea that there's you know, valiant
Speaker 2: efforts by people who are not as talented to make
Speaker 2: because of course is a great artist, just because they're
Speaker 2: you know, depicting the Crucifixion or the resurrection.
Speaker 1: But here's the thing.
Speaker 3: Here's there's also one other thing in the church. In
Speaker 3: our church Greek Orthodoxy, priests can marry a priest and
Speaker 3: they can have children. And I think this is important,
Speaker 3: especially if you're going to talk to someone about your marriage.
Speaker 3: How does someone know what you know a marriage is
Speaker 3: like if they've never experienced having a relationship with someone.
Speaker 3: And I believe that if you are a priest, if
Speaker 3: you are married and then become a priest, it's fine
Speaker 3: that you're married, But if you become a priest, you
Speaker 3: then cannot get married after.
Speaker 1: The fact is that in the Catholic Church.
Speaker 3: In the Catholic Church, priests can't marry.
Speaker 1: It can't marry at all.
Speaker 2: But that was only for that was from the Second
Speaker 2: Vatican Council or something or seven hundred. That was because
Speaker 2: of priests were leaving their you know, their inheritance to
Speaker 2: their children, and the Church wanted it.
Speaker 3: That's the right.
Speaker 2: So it was not really know when celibacy I mean
Speaker 2: as a as a spiritual esthetic, I go goes back
Speaker 2: to Buddhist esthetics and pre Roman Christianity, because I've become
Speaker 2: fascinated about it because I think someone I think of
Speaker 2: someone at the door with coffee. Actually, hold on, it's
Speaker 2: the priests.
Speaker 3: They're coming together.
Speaker 1: Hey wait a minute.
Speaker 3: Of the thank you that's so great.
Speaker 1: So there's this guy I've become fascinated by.
Speaker 3: His name is And I want to know why you
Speaker 3: became fascinated with the Greek Orthodox Church.
Speaker 2: Well, it's not so much the Greek Orthodox, but I
Speaker 2: don't know enough about the Greek I've been surrounded by
Speaker 2: Catholicism my whole I'm not a Catholic, but I grew
Speaker 2: up in Scotland. There's a lot of Catholics around, and
Speaker 2: I have friends who are Catholics, and so it wasn't
Speaker 2: mysterious to me. But I didn't really have much contact
Speaker 2: with anyone who was in Greek Orthodoxy.
Speaker 1: And as I was reading about the it really I.
Speaker 2: Became fascinated by it because of being sober. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: and sobriety was something that they.
Speaker 1: Were interested in.
Speaker 2: It's not part of anything I do, but I was,
Speaker 2: you know, being sober in terms of a sober mind
Speaker 2: and a sober soul in sobriety, not just the absence
Speaker 2: of whatever it ales, right, but actual sober thought is
Speaker 2: something that they talk about the early and I became
Speaker 2: fascinated by the Desert Fathers, and in particular, someone who
Speaker 2: was I believe connected to the Greek Orthodox or is
Speaker 2: celebrated in the Greek Orthodox Church, is Evagrius of Pontus.
Speaker 1: Have you heard of him now?
Speaker 2: He's fascinating figure. He was a theologian, he was a
Speaker 2: desert father, so it was his pre Roman Christianity and
Speaker 2: these esthetics they go out and they kind of was
Speaker 2: like it, really, it's a mirror of Christ's forty days
Speaker 2: in the wilderness and they lived that.
Speaker 1: But they lived there all the time.
Speaker 2: Saint Anthony lived there, you know, and all that and
Speaker 2: what it became. Evagrius was a theologian. Pontus I think
Speaker 2: was like normal on Turkey or something. I mean, everything
Speaker 2: was all different. And he came up with the eight thoughts,
Speaker 2: eight demons that will separate you from the divine.
Speaker 3: Oh, I love this.
Speaker 2: It's fascinating. And the eight thoughts are and you recognize
Speaker 2: them when I start saying them.
Speaker 1: They are sloth, avarice, lust, you know.
Speaker 2: And suddenly it's the seven deadly sins, right, and the
Speaker 2: seven deadly sins coming.
Speaker 1: He's got eight eight well, he put and this is
Speaker 1: what I love. I've edited out sadness.
Speaker 2: And sloth were put in together, and I thought, though
Speaker 2: that kind of makes sense too. Wow. But they thought
Speaker 2: about demons in the way that we talk about kind
Speaker 2: of psychosis or or stuff or addictions or stuff. And
Speaker 2: I just became fascinated by that, and I started wandering
Speaker 2: into it. And I knew when you were coming in today,
Speaker 2: I thought, oh, no, you are. I don't know how
Speaker 2: connected you are to your church though.
Speaker 1: Are you very you are?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, good, so I can ask you lots about it.
Speaker 3: You can and asked me lots about it, but I
Speaker 3: don't know how informed I'll be about it.
Speaker 2: All right, So to be fair, you're not speaking in
Speaker 2: an official capacity.
Speaker 1: Okay, right, Yes, did you get married in the Greek church?
Speaker 3: In the church that I got married? It's here in Hollywood,
Speaker 3: Saint Sophia Cathedral. It's the church I was baptized in that,
Speaker 3: my sister got married in, that I baptized my nieces
Speaker 3: in that I got married in, baptized my granddaughters in,
Speaker 3: and then also did the rituals from my mom and
Speaker 3: my dad there. So it's kind of like it's been
Speaker 3: all my life.
Speaker 2: They must get so much money out of you, but.
Speaker 1: We won't stay.
Speaker 2: That's a church, didn't they does the dogs?
Speaker 1: Does it have the Eucharist? Does it have everything? All right?
Speaker 3: We have all the sacraments, so we have all of
Speaker 3: the We don't have a wafer, but we actually do
Speaker 3: bread and wine.
Speaker 1: All right? And do you believe in transubstantiations?
Speaker 3: Okay? Now, now this is where I'm probably going to
Speaker 3: get beat up by you know, I don't know critics,
Speaker 3: but oh god, you know, we still do the sipping
Speaker 3: of the wine, the communal cup, and during COVID, I
Speaker 3: just stopped taking communion because I was.
Speaker 1: Looking, that's okay, I can't do this.
Speaker 3: I just.
Speaker 2: Were an early adopter of cod exactly.
Speaker 1: You guys were like, I was like, that is fast.
Speaker 1: You guys are very good.
Speaker 3: We were the first counsel of COVID.
Speaker 1: What that was? That was?
Speaker 2: I mean, you go to in Australia, right, Yes, I
Speaker 2: remember reading about it because I was like, oh my
Speaker 2: god that First of all, I didn't even know that
Speaker 2: it was in Australia. Nobody knew if you were going.
Speaker 3: To dive from it nobody, Yes, but nobody knew. It
Speaker 3: was all terrifying and strange. But I have enormous faith
Speaker 3: in my chart.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And at the same time, there is science that says
Speaker 3: maybe you don't want to be sipping off of a
Speaker 3: spoon during COVID.
Speaker 1: I think that's okay.
Speaker 2: And also that I don't know what the ritual is
Speaker 2: in Greek Orthodoxy, and I'm not entirely sure, but I
Speaker 2: don't think it has to be communal, or maybe it does, because.
Speaker 3: It was going to be like it's just been the
Speaker 3: way it's always been, right, Well, interesting, kid, it was
Speaker 3: like that. You know, I literally have gone to church
Speaker 3: early for communion on the most obscure like if it's
Speaker 3: during Holy Week, the most obscure morning service, that I
Speaker 3: can take communion and I will get there and I
Speaker 3: will sit in the front row and I will be
Speaker 3: the first person up for communion.
Speaker 2: You want to get to that before anybody. I think
Speaker 2: that's very wide, but it does kind of Can.
Speaker 3: I ask you something, yeah, question, how long have you
Speaker 3: been sober?
Speaker 1: Thirty one years? And I'm happy to say that, Oh
Speaker 1: my god, Yeah, I got sober when I was twenty nine.
Speaker 3: That's incredible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2: It's actually it's one of the reasons why I become
Speaker 2: fascinated with religion, because the longer I'm sober, the more
Speaker 2: I think that's kind.
Speaker 1: Of a miracle.
Speaker 2: And it is a miracle, kind of I don't really know.
Speaker 2: I mean, it is kind of a miracle. I don't
Speaker 2: know how it really happened. And I find myself, you know,
Speaker 2: interested in these things completely curious.
Speaker 3: I do think it is one of the things that
Speaker 3: I can only think of the word miracle when it
Speaker 3: comes to that, because it's like I have seen people
Speaker 3: transform their lives. Sure, and it's because of that. You know,
Speaker 3: it's like one day you're this and the next day
Speaker 3: you're somebody completely different. Well, it's and the day after
Speaker 3: and the day after.
Speaker 2: The reasons why I became fascinated by it because and
Speaker 2: being sober and trying to remain sober and trying to
Speaker 2: improve your sobriety, I guess is that I became interested
Speaker 2: in what happened before. You know, in my case, there
Speaker 2: was an organization which I wouldn't mention for the reason
Speaker 2: of the traditions, but it came into being in the
Speaker 2: mid nineteen.
Speaker 1: Thirties and the warham Before that.
Speaker 2: Of course, there were temperance movements and all that kind
Speaker 2: of thing before that. But there was an amazing story
Speaker 2: about do you know the story about Roland Hazard. No.
Speaker 1: Roland Hazard was a drunk.
Speaker 2: From a rich family in the northeast of America in
Speaker 2: the nineteen I think it was been nineteen thirties, I
Speaker 2: guess ely thirties, and he was a hopeless case. And
Speaker 2: eventually the Hazard family, because they had a lot of money,
Speaker 2: sent them to be treated by Carl Young.
Speaker 3: That's a different kind of rehabity.
Speaker 2: It's crazy, right, So they sent him to Roland has
Speaker 2: to be treated by Carl Jung. But before that they
Speaker 2: had asked Freud and Adler if they would take them,
Speaker 2: and they were like that. He drunks, there's nothing we
Speaker 2: can do, and they're hopeless. So they sent Roland to
Speaker 2: Carl Young. Roland hazard works for a year with Carl Young,
Speaker 2: and Carl Jung says, I think I think you're good
Speaker 2: to go.
Speaker 1: I don't know enough about it. Good luck. So Roland
Speaker 1: makes it as far he was in Switzerland.
Speaker 2: He gets as far as Paris, he gets drunk and
Speaker 2: he goes back again. He says to Carl Jung, I
Speaker 2: don't know what to do. Am I going to And
Speaker 2: Cary Young says, I think you're going to die. I
Speaker 2: don't think that's what I can do. And he said
Speaker 2: there's there nothing, And Carl Young said, well, look, once
Speaker 2: in a while, like Saint Paul on the Road to Damascus,
Speaker 2: a person has a religious experience ignacious of Loyola or
Speaker 2: you know, something like that, and they a profound spiritual
Speaker 2: change that so affects their psyche that they can stay sober.
Speaker 2: But unless you get that, I don't know how it's
Speaker 2: going to happen. And so what Roland Hazard. He comes
Speaker 2: back to America, he joins the Oxford Group. The Oxford
Speaker 2: Group morph into the organization that I'm you know, talking about,
Speaker 2: and they start to try and recreate. Bill Wilson, who
Speaker 2: founded Alcoholics Anonymous, starts to try and recreate through a
Speaker 2: series of steps, a profound psychic change that mimics what
Speaker 2: was a religious experience before that in order to alter
Speaker 2: the psyche of the alcoholics so much that they can
Speaker 2: stay sober.
Speaker 1: Wow, isn't that fascinating? And he did that well? I
Speaker 1: think in my case.
Speaker 2: Yes, Hello, this is Craig Ferguson and I want to
Speaker 2: let you know I have a brand new stand up
Speaker 2: comedy special out now on YouTube. It's called I'm So Happy,
Speaker 2: and I would be so happy if you checked it out.
Speaker 2: To watch the special, just go to my YouTube channel
Speaker 2: at the Craig Ferguson Show And is this right there?
Speaker 1: Just click it and play it and it's free. I
Speaker 1: can't look.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to come around your house and show
Speaker 2: you how to do it. If you can't do it,
Speaker 2: then you can't have it. But if you can figure
Speaker 2: it out, it's yours.
Speaker 1: The psychic change.
Speaker 2: There are cars because this is not really about me,
Speaker 2: but but I'm interested because you're a religious person, and
Speaker 2: you've always been a religious person. Has there ever been
Speaker 2: a point where you've thought, I don't believe it. I
Speaker 2: don't believe it. It's no, so you haven't had to
Speaker 2: make that that tarn.
Speaker 3: No, my mom was really the person who was the
Speaker 3: bringer of the faith, right, my dad, he must have
Speaker 3: Chris made it or converted before he married. My mom
Speaker 3: converted because chrismation is if you are already baptized in
Speaker 3: a religion, but you're going to get married in the
Speaker 3: Greek Orthodox Church, right, or not married because you can.
Speaker 3: You can get married if you're Christian. You don't have
Speaker 3: to be Greek Orthodox to get married in the church.
Speaker 3: Chrismation is if you want to convert from let's say
Speaker 3: Catholicism to Greek Orthodoxy. So that's kind of slightly different.
Speaker 1: Than was your dad a Christian?
Speaker 3: So my dad must have converted in order to get
Speaker 3: married in the church. But after he died, I did
Speaker 3: a TV show called Who Do You Think You Are?
Speaker 3: The Genealogy Show, and we went back to his village
Speaker 3: and everyone everyone was Muslim, okay everyone, and my dad
Speaker 3: always explained it this way. He said that where he
Speaker 3: was from, he was born in Greece, and where he
Speaker 3: was from the area was always being occupied by some people,
Speaker 3: and for many many years, obviously it was the Ottoman Empire,
Speaker 3: and during that time, my dad said that many years back,
Speaker 3: they were Christians, and during the Ottoman Empire they were
Speaker 3: sort of told that they had to change their religion,
Speaker 3: convert to Islam, and also to change their names to
Speaker 3: sound more Islamic.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: So I think that with Wilson because that was the
Speaker 3: street we lived on when my dad became a citizen
Speaker 3: of the United States.
Speaker 1: You like, that's just is that why?
Speaker 2: You know, that's not the reason why the ball is Wilson,
Speaker 2: And I think.
Speaker 3: That it is.
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean.
Speaker 3: I feel like I just really.
Speaker 1: Profound No, because there's the name.
Speaker 2: Of the.
Speaker 3: Well, there's there's a Wilson brand, there's a Spaulding and
Speaker 3: there's a light.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I think that's lovely.
Speaker 2: But it's just like I feel like I'm weirdly excited
Speaker 2: by that.
Speaker 1: There's something very human about it, and I think that's great.
Speaker 3: Great, it is great.
Speaker 1: It is great.
Speaker 3: So that was it, And then you know, I met
Speaker 3: so many of my relatives who are Muslim, and it
Speaker 3: was just so interesting to me because my dad never
Speaker 3: really talked about it. He didn't you know. There was
Speaker 3: a lot of things I found out about my dad then,
Speaker 3: you know, after he passed.
Speaker 2: Away, was well, your dad was an immigrant, and was
Speaker 2: your mom an emigrant too.
Speaker 3: My mom was actually born in New York, right, and
Speaker 3: then raised in a little tiny village She's Greek, on
Speaker 3: the border of Albania and Greece. And when the war
Speaker 3: broke out, well, first they went there when she was
Speaker 3: four years old and her father died and so her
Speaker 3: mom my yeah, yeah, grandmother was left with four kids.
Speaker 3: And the relatives in New York said, what are you
Speaker 3: going to do a widow with four children in New York.
Speaker 3: Stay in the village and we'll send money back to you,
Speaker 3: because my grandfather had a business in New York, and
Speaker 3: so they stayed, and over the years, I think money
Speaker 3: stopped being sent. And then around the time of the
Speaker 3: end of the war and also the beginning of the
Speaker 3: civil unrest in Greece, they knew it was time to
Speaker 3: get out, and so they couldn't just walk the border.
Speaker 3: Even though my mom was an American citizen. So they
Speaker 3: had to escape and climb over these mountains and make
Speaker 3: their way onto the Greece side of the border, and
Speaker 3: then eventually made their way to Athens, renewed their passports,
Speaker 3: and then took a ship over to And my dad
Speaker 3: has an amazing story too. My dad's story is that
Speaker 3: he I didn't know any of this until I did
Speaker 3: that show.
Speaker 1: So you, as a kid, you don't know this about
Speaker 1: your mother and father.
Speaker 3: I knew this about my mother. I did not know.
Speaker 3: I knew that my father was in a labor camp.
Speaker 3: I did not know. There was an earlier part of
Speaker 3: the story, which was he was in the army, the
Speaker 3: Bulgarian army, and while he was at the Bulgarian army,
Speaker 3: he saw Seltzer bottles right right from somewhere, and he
Speaker 3: took the twelve There were twelve Seltzer bottles, and he
Speaker 3: took them. And knowing what I know about my dad,
Speaker 3: he only did things for other people, so I thought
Speaker 3: he must have had a reason for doing this. And
Speaker 3: my grandfather, he was a hunter, and he had a
Speaker 3: hunting lodge, let's call it a small lodge in the
Speaker 3: mountains in the Rhodope Mountains of Bulgaria, and I think
Speaker 3: he must have thought, oh, my dad could use these
Speaker 3: bottles for when he's out on a hunting trip. Anyways,
Speaker 3: he was arrested, he was court martialed, and he was
Speaker 3: sentenced to a prison for taking a empty park three years, Yes, three.
Speaker 1: Years in prison for take an empty bottle.
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. They were trying to make an example of him.
Speaker 1: Could the great bottle thieving Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: It was all about bottle theater. I mean they had
Speaker 3: all the documents there, so it wasn't like there was
Speaker 3: there wasn't anything being hidden. It was just literally and
Speaker 3: this prison was very, very dangerous and treacherous. Anyways, he
Speaker 3: gets out and he meets a girl and they get married, right,
Speaker 3: and she gets pregnant and I knew none of this and.
Speaker 1: This is not your mom. They were talking no, oh
Speaker 1: my no.
Speaker 3: And she delivers a baby on December twenty sixth. I
Speaker 3: want you to remember that, okay. And so on December
Speaker 3: twenty ninth, she dies from complications of childbirth, things that
Speaker 3: nowadays modern medicine would be able to take care.
Speaker 1: Of course, So.
Speaker 3: My dad is now the father of an infant. He's
Speaker 3: living with his in laws. The tragedy of this beautiful
Speaker 3: young woman dying and this little baby. So this was
Speaker 3: after the war. I don't know how they kept that
Speaker 3: baby alive, because what do you do. There's no milk,
Speaker 3: there's no formula. They could barely have enough bread to eat.
Speaker 3: And four months later the baby died and his name
Speaker 3: was a Meal.
Speaker 1: It's so like, so crazy, sad story.
Speaker 3: Very sad, and I think this is one of the
Speaker 3: reasons why my dad was like, I'm out of here.
Speaker 3: I'm getting out of Bulgaria, and he tried.
Speaker 1: I never knew any of it.
Speaker 3: I never knew anything. But what's ironic is my sister's
Speaker 3: first child was born on December twenty sixth, and my
Speaker 3: second son was born on December twenty sixth, and I
Speaker 3: always thought on Christmas and that next day, which was
Speaker 3: always a big celebration in our family, that my dad
Speaker 3: was must have been thinking about his firstborn son, Emil
Speaker 3: and knowing that, like, yeah, what what is this about.
Speaker 3: I have baby? Everybody in my family's having babies on
Speaker 3: December twenty sixth.
Speaker 2: It's funny my wife has a grandfather who has It's
Speaker 2: not the same story in it, but he was from
Speaker 2: a country that no longer exists in that area, the
Speaker 2: Republic of something or something, and he came over and
Speaker 2: they could never find out what he did. But he
Speaker 2: would always carry cash. And he had a farm in Massachusetts,
Speaker 2: and he would always carry cash in the so for alls,
Speaker 2: just in case, just in case, because you never knows
Speaker 2: the fear run.
Speaker 3: Nothing takes away that fears. No, it's true.
Speaker 2: It's strange because you don't get free of it. I
Speaker 2: was talking to you know, Dik Shepherd.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Dyks loved dad.
Speaker 1: He's great. I was talking to him the other day.
Speaker 2: And he grew up in kind of difficult circumstances in Troy,
Speaker 2: and and I grew up not rich either. And I
Speaker 2: don't think that feeling ever leaves you. It doesn't matter
Speaker 2: how much money you make, you know, it's like, no,
Speaker 2: keep some aside face.
Speaker 3: My dad was a bartender, and so he would work
Speaker 3: and bring you know, he would get tips, and so
Speaker 3: he would bring the tips home in a Crown Royal
Speaker 3: felt bag, you know, yes, okay, And on Saturday mornings,
Speaker 3: we would spread out all the coins on the kitchen
Speaker 3: table and we would take the quarters and put him
Speaker 3: in the little bank rolls of coins.
Speaker 1: Right, I would still do this totally. It was like this.
Speaker 3: Meditative Yeah, he would do that, And that's why I
Speaker 3: always think like, wow, you know, you've got to take
Speaker 3: care of the people who are in those positions that
Speaker 3: you know they're going home with those tips and taking
Speaker 3: those tips to their families and putting them in rolls
Speaker 3: and making a living out of it. By my mom
Speaker 3: used to keep a secret money in her wallet, like
Speaker 3: twenty dollars, and I'm like, but it's not secret because
Speaker 3: you put it there. I know, I know, but it
Speaker 3: wasn't in the part where she would actually access it.
Speaker 1: Right right in the bed behind your driver's license. Yeah.
Speaker 3: My dad would take money and he would put it
Speaker 3: in a lead pipe, so he would just like whatever
Speaker 3: bills he would like. It was like his bank account.
Speaker 3: He would put it in a lead pipe that had
Speaker 3: screws lids on each end in case there was a fire.
Speaker 2: You growing up, Yes, it's crazy if you grew up
Speaker 2: the child of immigrants with a shocking story.
Speaker 1: But in Hollywood.
Speaker 2: So I feel like I always believed in them, not
Speaker 2: believed in the myth. That sounds wrong, but I was
Speaker 2: always much more impressed by Hollywood and hollywood ness until
Speaker 2: I started doing the late night show and then you
Speaker 2: just meet everybody and then you just realize it's like,
Speaker 2: you know, the doushe dementsion ratio was just the same
Speaker 2: as it as everywhere else in the world.
Speaker 1: Some people are great, some people are asshole, isn't it?
Speaker 2: And it's fine, right, But until that point I had
Speaker 2: there was a mistique about Hollywood that.
Speaker 1: I really believed in.
Speaker 2: Did you not never have that because you grew up
Speaker 2: here or did it crumble over time like it led
Speaker 2: for me?
Speaker 3: No, it was just my hometown, right, and I knew
Speaker 3: that people came here from all over the world to
Speaker 3: pursue their dreams, but this was my hometown. I went
Speaker 3: to Hollywood High School Lacante Junior High which is right
Speaker 3: down the street. Right Hollywood Boulevard was where we would
Speaker 3: go and get back to school clothes, your bike.
Speaker 2: Yeah you can't do that, Hollywood Bilevard Nolly.
Speaker 1: It's a completely different looking for.
Speaker 3: A different kind of school.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's.
Speaker 3: And we would go to movies at the Chinese Theater
Speaker 3: and go to Musso and Franks on a special occasion,
Speaker 3: and it was just home. But I started modeling first
Speaker 3: at fourteen years old, right here at Hollywood High School,
Speaker 3: I was discovered.
Speaker 2: Quotation took me through the discovery back a little bit.
Speaker 2: It was first day of school. Yeah, it was kind
Speaker 2: of like that, except they were legit. They were from
Speaker 2: Harper's Bizarre magazine, but I didn't know that at the time,
Speaker 2: and the photographer was a very famous photographer nowadays he's
Speaker 2: still alive. His name's Albert Watson. He's incredible, right Scottish,
Speaker 2: I believe is he really is, and so is his wife,
Speaker 2: I think. So he saw me walking and asked, they
Speaker 2: had permission from the school to be there if you
Speaker 2: could take some pictures.
Speaker 1: I was tak but that we get a little She's
Speaker 1: very beautiful.
Speaker 3: And so they took some pictures and he asked the
Speaker 3: next day if we could arrange another time to meet,
Speaker 3: and so we did and took more pictures, and that
Speaker 3: ended up being the first modeling job I ever had,
Speaker 3: which was for Harper's Bizarre magazine, which is very swanky,
Speaker 3: very swanky, very very swanky. It was the year eighteen
Speaker 3: year Old's Got the Vote. Okay, so it was there
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy two January nineteen seventy two issue No.
Speaker 1: I believe is that when eighteen year olds go to
Speaker 1: the vote here. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So but after that I just started working and the
Speaker 3: first job I got to get my screen Hunters Guild
Speaker 3: card was the Brady Bunch and that was at Paramount Studios.
Speaker 3: Now still to this day, if I walk into a driving,
Speaker 3: into a studio, walk into a sound stage, I have
Speaker 3: that feeling of its magic. It's a very specific smell
Speaker 3: exactly climate. It's a volume of height, it's the color
Speaker 3: of the walls, it's the energy. Now like certain studios
Speaker 3: are putting plaques on the outsides of their sound stages
Speaker 3: like this is what was filmed here, and it's fantastic,
Speaker 3: And all good things have always happened to me at
Speaker 3: Paramount Studios, So I love Paramount Studios. So it was
Speaker 3: a trippy thing because I don't know why this. I
Speaker 3: was lucky. But with all of that that I was
Speaker 3: exposed to, and all the different kinds of people that
Speaker 3: I was exposed to, I never had anything terrible happened
Speaker 3: to me in La. I mean it was just like.
Speaker 1: I wonder if that's because you knew the neighborhood.
Speaker 2: I mean, like not just knew the neighborhood, like the
Speaker 2: streets but you like, if you grew up amongst it,
Speaker 2: if you're kind of you speak the language almost well.
Speaker 2: I think if people come here, particularly young women, if
Speaker 2: young women come here and they're white eyed and they're
Speaker 2: you know, it may bee maybe attracts.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I mean because I had a lot
Speaker 3: of friends that bad things happened to. Yeah, so, and
Speaker 3: yes they did come from other places. But look, it.
Speaker 1: Has it changed? Has the time changed? Do you think
Speaker 1: has it changed?
Speaker 3: I think it's much scarier now. It's much scarier now.
Speaker 2: There's just there's it feels like it's everywhere now, like
Speaker 2: the world is Holywood.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like there was still a some kind of
Speaker 3: accountability this. The town was not as big as it
Speaker 3: is now. For one thing. Now I think La is
Speaker 3: like twenty million.
Speaker 1: Just last people.
Speaker 3: That's like bigger than some countries.
Speaker 1: So four times the size of Scotland.
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly so. But I feel like, you know, there
Speaker 3: were things like the Christmas parade on Hollywood Boulevard. Dad,
Speaker 3: we would come down and you know'd pack up in
Speaker 3: the car. We'd park blocks away, and then you know,
Speaker 3: he'd carry me on his shoulders and we would wait
Speaker 3: for Nudy to come down in his Cadillac Nudy Nudy.
Speaker 3: It was a big Western guy. Did you ever like
Speaker 3: that guy?
Speaker 1: Nudy on Hollywood is a different.
Speaker 3: Nud Hollywood that goes back to that other kind of school.
Speaker 2: There was a I moved here in nineteen ninety five
Speaker 2: to Los Angeles, and even then there was a kind
Speaker 2: of sleepiness to the town.
Speaker 1: There was a change.
Speaker 2: It really did, yes, And I can't I can't quite
Speaker 2: tell when I think it's something to do with uber
Speaker 2: or smartphones or GPS or something something something happened.
Speaker 1: And yeah, really really different, or maybe I'd just go older, or.
Speaker 3: Maybe oh no, something did change. It would it would
Speaker 3: be so fascinating when somebody could analyze that and say
Speaker 3: what was the difference, Like what was that shift that
Speaker 3: that happened and why. I don't know. I really don't know.
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe phones or computers. Computers were out in what
Speaker 3: ninety six, ninety Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think when people started, you know, there used to
Speaker 2: be the sign where you couldn't there was a sign
Speaker 2: that said no walking to the Hollywood sign.
Speaker 1: And I lived up in the hills, and yes, you can't.
Speaker 2: Walk to the Hollidays actually could walk to the Hollywood Sign,
Speaker 2: but they would put signs up saying that you couldn't,
Speaker 2: and you could wander up there, and that was always
Speaker 2: the walk that I I'd walk up man Hollywood and
Speaker 2: down by the observer.
Speaker 1: Great beautiful. Yeah, and I did it recently when I
Speaker 1: was here, and it's packed. Everybody knows where to go. Oh,
Speaker 1: you're kidding, it's packed. There's like people above the sign.
Speaker 1: There are all tourists up there. They all walk up there,
Speaker 1: and I mean, I get every right to go. It's
Speaker 1: just so many.
Speaker 3: Walked up to the Hollywood Sign. Born and raised. Don't
Speaker 3: even know how to get there. No, I don't even
Speaker 3: know how well. I wouldn't want to bother the neighbors
Speaker 3: up there.
Speaker 2: There's nobody up there but coyotes and yeah, well no
Speaker 2: tourists you missed you.
Speaker 3: Shut yeah, but I mean there were. I mean now
Speaker 3: is if you go there, I think it's very like
Speaker 3: it's rude, right, you don't want to disturb the residents
Speaker 3: and things like that.
Speaker 1: You can there's pass up to you can walk up
Speaker 1: to it from It's all right.
Speaker 3: And it might be rude, funny. I don't know.
Speaker 2: No, you can get up through canyon, and I'll tell
Speaker 2: you you can walk up through canyon the secret way
Speaker 2: up because the Batman.
Speaker 3: Caves are over there, the Batman Cave.
Speaker 2: Well, you just you go up past the Batman Caves
Speaker 2: and then you walk right. It's really steep, walk up
Speaker 2: the hill and then you walk over to the left
Speaker 2: and you're above the hold.
Speaker 3: Did you ever go horseback riding at Sunset Stables? I
Speaker 3: go over into Burbank for the night and.
Speaker 1: Then have you done that?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: I love that?
Speaker 3: It was so much fun. They still do it apparently.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I fell off a horse recently. Do you ride horses?
Speaker 3: I do. I love horses.
Speaker 1: I like horses too.
Speaker 3: But you write English.
Speaker 1: No, I have a Western saddle in Scotland. But my
Speaker 1: horse we put.
Speaker 2: The Western saddle on them, is very very very horse.
Speaker 2: See not in appearance, although no, she's not appearance.
Speaker 3: But she's gorgeous.
Speaker 2: She's gorgeous, but she's she has a beautiful pony.
Speaker 1: But we put this.
Speaker 2: I think they call it the girth on the English shaddle.
Speaker 1: They call it.
Speaker 3: They call it the girl, like the bridle or not
Speaker 3: the bridle, the girth, Yeah.
Speaker 1: The girl. So I think it was pinching his little
Speaker 1: leggy bit.
Speaker 2: Oh no, and he he buckd. He's only ever buked
Speaker 2: twice once. I saw it when he was lungeon I
Speaker 2: was lunging him, and then the other time I was
Speaker 2: on him and I came off.
Speaker 1: He's a big horse too. Wow.
Speaker 2: It was very and I'm sixty one years old. I've
Speaker 2: fallen off many horses, and I've noticed over the years
Speaker 2: that it hurts a lot more.
Speaker 1: Do you ever have an accident on your horse.
Speaker 3: I've been thrown from a horse, sure, but nothing that
Speaker 3: resulted in injury. My injuries are from the two times
Speaker 3: I tried snowboarding, because I ski hearts morning.
Speaker 1: Why you fall your.
Speaker 3: Your feet are stuck together on a board.
Speaker 1: You can't escape.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: It's like I like to say at the end of
Speaker 2: a rule in a movie theater in case I.
Speaker 1: Have to leave, and I feel the same about skiing
Speaker 1: and snowboarding. I don't want my feet exactly. I gotta
Speaker 1: go bye, Yeah, I gotta leave. Sorry, something came up.
Speaker 1: I go to leave. Do you let me ask you
Speaker 1: a question? Then, do you ever get a fear of flying?
Speaker 3: I used to I don't anymore to hear why. It
Speaker 3: was very specific. I had two friends, sorry, one friend,
Speaker 3: and he was in a plane crash. The crash, the
Speaker 3: plane went off the runway, the plane caught fire. Everybody
Speaker 3: got out and survived, so it had a happy But
Speaker 3: I called his wife when it happened and I said,
Speaker 3: oh my god, how was he doing? Oh my gosh,
Speaker 3: they're they're British. And I said, well, I said, that's
Speaker 3: why I don't fly. When the kids were little, Tom
Speaker 3: and I didn't fly on the same plane together. We
Speaker 3: take different flights and all that. And I said, you know,
Speaker 3: that's why we don't fly together. And she said, Darling,
Speaker 3: if you don't fly together, then you shouldn't really drive
Speaker 3: together because the chances of being in a car crash
Speaker 3: off far greater. And she was right, the statistics are
Speaker 3: actually true.
Speaker 1: Oh this static exactly.
Speaker 3: So that kind of calmed me.
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, the idea of you once the
Speaker 2: doors are closed, you hand the power over to someone
Speaker 2: else and that always.
Speaker 1: But I actually what I did is I learned to.
Speaker 3: Fly your own plane.
Speaker 1: Yeah I did.
Speaker 3: What did that do?
Speaker 2: But you know Kurt Russell? Yes, right, so car? You
Speaker 2: know cars like crazy? Yes, aviator? So I said to
Speaker 2: him he was on the old Late Night Show and
Speaker 2: I said, I'm frightened of flying. I know you left flying,
Speaker 2: and I'm frightened of flying. He said, you're not frightened
Speaker 2: to flying. You're just the control freak. And I went,
Speaker 2: that's not true, and I went, it is true. I
Speaker 2: read your book, and I went.
Speaker 1: You read my book.
Speaker 2: And then I ended up talking about the book because I
Speaker 2: was so excited that Kurt read my book.
Speaker 1: But he didn't forget.
Speaker 2: And so for my birthday, Meghan called up Kurt and said, hey,
Speaker 2: let's get him some flying lessons because I used to
Speaker 2: be terrified of flying.
Speaker 1: And he went great, and.
Speaker 2: He found a flying and struck a really gnarly old
Speaker 2: guy over at Vanny's Airport. It took me out and
Speaker 2: after about seven hours of flying instruction for me where
Speaker 2: I was terrified, Kurt said.
Speaker 1: You come up with me.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh God, So he has this super
Speaker 2: powerful plane. Right there's a tea. I don't know if
Speaker 2: he still has it, but he's a at a TBM
Speaker 2: seven hundred.
Speaker 1: It was like a rocket ship.
Speaker 2: And we go up to this plane and we fly
Speaker 2: just from Santa Monica over at Santa Maria Airport.
Speaker 1: It's done far.
Speaker 2: And as we're landing, there's a bit of a crosswind
Speaker 2: and he said, land the plane.
Speaker 1: I said, I I'm not ready for that. He went, well,
Speaker 1: I ain't doing.
Speaker 2: It, so and it eventually, you know, I did it
Speaker 2: and I got it close and then he took over
Speaker 2: and he landed the plane. Oh I was I was terrified.
Speaker 2: But you can't cry in from a snake. Plusken, he
Speaker 2: there's no, you can't, you know. But I went home
Speaker 2: and something cracked a little bit. I don't know what
Speaker 2: it was. When I went home, I was like, no,
Speaker 2: it's different. I understood the mechanics of it a little bit.
Speaker 3: So now, are you less afraid to fly in a
Speaker 3: commercial flight?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I would say that I am.
Speaker 3: Because you understand the mechanics.
Speaker 1: I understand how it works. Yeah, and I understand that.
Speaker 2: I also understand that the person that's flying the plane
Speaker 2: is far more qualified than I am to do the job.
Speaker 2: So that kind of worked.
Speaker 3: Don't put him on a late night show or a podcast.
Speaker 3: He can't do it.
Speaker 2: Who can't the pilot or the pilot? They are very
Speaker 2: specific breed pilots. Actually, did you never get into that?
Speaker 3: So I supposed flying?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, it's kind.
Speaker 2: Of a Hollywood thing. There's a community of people here
Speaker 2: that do it, and I was kind of surprised with
Speaker 2: the people that I was like, oh my god, and
Speaker 2: you run Edward Norton at the airport or you know,
Speaker 2: travel is famously a flyer or talk cruise or like
Speaker 2: there's a whole like, oh my god, this is like
Speaker 2: the Oscars exactly here in like really fancy suits.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, oh, everyone's wearing pressure suits.
Speaker 2: It's cool, but it's kind of like and I thought
Speaker 2: it'd be like super expensive and it is, but yes,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: So do you still do it? Do you still take less?
Speaker 2: I have? I have a little little, tiny two seater
Speaker 2: plane that I can only fly at certain times of
Speaker 2: the year because of the weather.
Speaker 3: But wow, and I keep it in Scotland.
Speaker 1: I do, but I share it with a guy who's
Speaker 1: a really good pilot.
Speaker 3: Okay, so when you go, you take a co pilot
Speaker 3: with you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well let's say I take the co pilot. But
Speaker 1: really I'm just sitting going, yeah, what does that do?
Speaker 1: Can I have a show? Can I have a show?
Speaker 2: Do you have a thing that your antidote to show business?
Speaker 2: Because it's such an odd kind of capricious world that
Speaker 2: you know, it's just by the nature of it.
Speaker 1: I don't mind it. I think that's the way it is.
Speaker 1: It's the circus.
Speaker 2: But I often feel I'm drawn very much to things
Speaker 2: which are innanted, which take my head out of it.
Speaker 1: Do you do that, do you? Yeah? I mean you
Speaker 1: have your faith obviously.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, first of all, my family super close to them.
Speaker 3: After this, I'm going to go see my brother lives
Speaker 3: right up nearby.
Speaker 1: Nice.
Speaker 3: But I have to be outside in nature, like I
Speaker 3: love swimming, I love hiking, I love walking. Anything that
Speaker 3: is outside is that is just heaven for me. And
Speaker 3: also I really like driving by myself. I just love it.
Speaker 3: I feel like it's a cocoon and you could think
Speaker 3: and nothing, you know, like it's almost like a meditation
Speaker 3: in a way. I like, what's that expression that they
Speaker 3: used to say, idle hands or the devil's work or
Speaker 3: something like that, But it's the idea that you're using
Speaker 3: your hands to do something and it frees up your brain.
Speaker 3: So my mom was a big crocheer. And people who
Speaker 3: cook or garden or sew or any of that stuff
Speaker 3: or work on you know, cars, they have at least.
Speaker 1: Christian desert mystics.
Speaker 2: They would make they make baskets, they would weave baskets.
Speaker 2: They were in constant prayer.
Speaker 3: Right, and so that I think that's a form of meditation, right,
Speaker 3: And I love that. I listened to music. I listen
Speaker 3: to books on tape, but mostly I just like to
Speaker 3: let the mind wonder.
Speaker 2: Are your gearhead? Do you like have special cars? Do
Speaker 2: you like go to Jay Leno's garage and say, let
Speaker 2: me try one.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 3: Actually, my car is You're gonna think this is crazy?
Speaker 3: Ten years old? You know how most people get a
Speaker 3: brand new car like everything. No, my car is ten
Speaker 3: years old, never getting rid of it. I love it.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: One of the big thing that happened to me in Hollywood,
Speaker 2: I was working in Warner Brothers and I was in
Speaker 2: the nineteen nineties and I just go here. I was
Speaker 2: doing the Drew Garea Show and Clint Eastwood was working
Speaker 2: in the Warner Brothers law and he drove in in
Speaker 2: a ten year old Ford Explorer and I was like,
Speaker 2: that so fucking cool.
Speaker 3: That's so cool.
Speaker 2: It's like, I don't care exactly, it is like, you know,
Speaker 2: it's not going to make me anymore. Clint Eastwood advice, Right,
Speaker 2: just I love the kind of like, yeah, it's a car.
Speaker 3: I have a car, one of my cars. It's a truck.
Speaker 3: Is I should say ours is twenty one years old.
Speaker 1: I think that's great though. I love it.
Speaker 3: You hang on to long enough and they become vintage.
Speaker 1: That's right. I think.
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm trying that for myself as well.
Speaker 2: I feel like if I can survive long enough, it'll
Speaker 2: come back around again. I noticed kids at my stand
Speaker 2: up shows now and they're like under thirty.
Speaker 1: I'm like, what the hell was you doing here? And
Speaker 1: then I.
Speaker 2: Thought, you're here ironically, aren't you? It's because of TikTok
Speaker 2: or something?
Speaker 3: What about that? Do you do TikTok?
Speaker 2: I was about to ask you. I kind of dip
Speaker 2: in and out of it. But I treat it the
Speaker 2: same way as I do with anything as I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't read anything the MD else puts out right.
Speaker 2: I just like, I do my thing and then I
Speaker 2: run away.
Speaker 3: I know I have an account, but I've never been
Speaker 3: onto it. I don't know how to do it. You
Speaker 3: do you do the Instagram or any of the Instagram
Speaker 3: and Facebook and Twitter? Right, formally then is Twitter?
Speaker 1: I think Twitter is is it's kind of going away?
Speaker 1: I think now is that what?
Speaker 3: I don't know? I wish I would all go away?
Speaker 1: I kind of do too.
Speaker 3: Can it leave now we haven't hasn't it had its moment?
Speaker 3: Can't we just go back to like looking at each other?
Speaker 3: I was talking to each other.
Speaker 2: I was hoping it was going to be like CB Radio,
Speaker 2: like come and go, and that would be a I
Speaker 2: think I feel that it kind of I remember actually
Speaker 2: Tom was scheduled to do a sport in my old
Speaker 2: late night show and for some reason he couldn't do it,
Speaker 2: and he wrote very classy gentlemen as I'm sure you know.
Speaker 1: He wrote a no of apology and it was written
Speaker 1: in a old typewriter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I went, oh my god, that's so cool
Speaker 2: because it wasn't just somebody had just done it. No,
Speaker 2: it's red. There was some thought in it, and it
Speaker 2: marred to me. It was like it was like it
Speaker 2: was like it really was something. There's something really good
Speaker 2: about analog things. I agree written not a hand type note.
Speaker 1: I listened to my music on vinyl.
Speaker 3: Now come back to my new album's coming on on
Speaker 3: vinyl soon.
Speaker 1: Because your country artists sort of.
Speaker 3: Kind of Yes, yeah, I love that. I'd like to
Speaker 3: say that I'm southern southern California.
Speaker 1: Southern California.
Speaker 3: Why not.
Speaker 2: It's like that NASCAR guy that's from California. I can't
Speaker 2: remember his name, but yeah, he's sort of southern California.
Speaker 3: But I love Vinyl. I love it so much. It
Speaker 3: reminds me. There's first of all, it's techtile, yeah, and
Speaker 3: it reminds me of how we used to listen to
Speaker 3: music as a whole. So there was a narrative story
Speaker 3: that the artist or the band was looking to tell,
Speaker 3: and you would listen to it and there'd be that
Speaker 3: moment where his side one was over side A and
Speaker 3: he'd flip it over and do side B and it
Speaker 3: was just like, I love the ritual of that smell
Speaker 3: of it, I know.
Speaker 2: And then the thing is as well, is that you
Speaker 2: can listen to vinyl volume and here's stuff that you
Speaker 2: can't hear digitally.
Speaker 1: I never knowed that until very recently, and I played
Speaker 1: it to our youngest.
Speaker 2: Boy is twelve, and I got this final setup and
Speaker 2: I played it to him for the first time, and
Speaker 2: it was like a big electronica thing as a Scotch
Speaker 2: band called Mogwai and it's like it's real, you know,
Speaker 2: Oh my god. And I played it too him and
Speaker 2: he went, oh my god, what is this?
Speaker 3: Wow?
Speaker 1: I said, this is this is analog music speakers. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And he was like, I love this. He said, I
Speaker 1: feel I've been robbed. I said, you have.
Speaker 3: Exactly turn him on, get him his own turd table.
Speaker 3: There was a woman that lived up the street from
Speaker 3: us when we were growing up, and she worked at
Speaker 3: Capitol Records. So this was during the sixties when the
Speaker 3: Beatles were assigned to Capitol Wow. So whenever there was
Speaker 3: an album, a Beatles album released, she would bring it
Speaker 3: to us and my sister, well all three of us,
Speaker 3: we would just put that thing on. Call it a
Speaker 3: hi Fi. Why was it a high five?
Speaker 1: High fidelity?
Speaker 3: High fidelity? But it had a turn My dad made it.
Speaker 3: It had a turntable on one side, it had the
Speaker 3: tuners on the other side and the amps, and then
Speaker 3: the middle was the television set. And we would just
Speaker 3: that is so cool in front of that, like I wish,
Speaker 3: wouldn't that be great if somebody came out with a
Speaker 3: high five, but like a really proper with all the
Speaker 3: good technology, but made it look like it was in
Speaker 3: a piece of cality.
Speaker 1: I bet you could do it.
Speaker 2: I found that a nineteen thirties wooden radio in the
Speaker 2: house in Scotland and the what we call the sellers
Speaker 2: is kind of crypt and I don't know why the
Speaker 2: radio was down there, but all the valves and stuff
Speaker 2: were gone. But I'm there is a company that will
Speaker 2: put new inrds in it for all.
Speaker 3: That's so cool. Do you live in an old house
Speaker 3: in Scotland?
Speaker 1: It's pretty old?
Speaker 3: Is it haunted?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 3: Really? What kind of ghosts? What kind of things have
Speaker 3: you heard or seen?
Speaker 2: Well, there's always bumps and squeaks. And then do you
Speaker 2: believe in all this?
Speaker 3: We had one house that had things that were inexplicable.
Speaker 1: I love this.
Speaker 3: Told me too.
Speaker 1: The most haunted house I've ever lived in was in
Speaker 1: the Hollywood Hill.
Speaker 3: What yes, Okay, tell me what happened.
Speaker 2: I didn't know what happened, but it was scary. Megan
Speaker 2: was like, what.
Speaker 1: Dile is that?
Speaker 2: And it was like, ah, maybe a homeless guy. I
Speaker 2: don't know, but it was. It was scary. It was
Speaker 2: a scary house.
Speaker 1: That's wild. Where was your haunted us.
Speaker 3: It was an old nineteen twenty six Mediterranean.
Speaker 1: That's the that Maine was a nineteen twenty six mediterrane What.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they were like they were friends, You may us
Speaker 3: were friends.
Speaker 1: Maybe where was it was in the Hollywood, No, in.
Speaker 3: Santa Monica area, right, Okay, So here's the thing though,
Speaker 3: that there were just inexplicable things and everybody heard them.
Speaker 3: And you just couldn't explain why the TV would go
Speaker 3: on by itself in the middle of the night.
Speaker 1: I've seen that.
Speaker 3: Why it sounded like there was somebody dropping a stack
Speaker 3: of books onto the floor from the second floor landing.
Speaker 3: Sounded like somebody was just dropping a stack of books.
Speaker 2: We had one in the house, like we were in
Speaker 2: the old house in Scotland, right, And there was a portrait,
Speaker 2: an old portrait of the woman who had owned the
Speaker 2: house a couple of hundred years ago, was up in
Speaker 2: the wall, right, and Megan and I were standing in
Speaker 2: the room.
Speaker 1: We were talking about something. We're just being married talking.
Speaker 1: I don't know what the hell you talk.
Speaker 2: You know what it's like you'd been married forever, is
Speaker 2: it's like you just talk about everything now you know
Speaker 2: what it is?
Speaker 1: You remember that thing. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So we're just talking and there was a door that
Speaker 2: never opened, right, I just couldn't.
Speaker 1: It was always so stemming. You could open it, but
Speaker 1: it was very, very difficult jiggle the thing the handle.
Speaker 2: So we were looking at this portrait and I said, oh,
Speaker 2: she's still here somewhere, and Megan was like, well, and
Speaker 2: she said, it's a joke. She said to the portrait,
Speaker 2: it's my house now, girl, And the door wiggled and
Speaker 2: then the door opened, and I was like, oh, no,
Speaker 2: way did that happened? She makes it and she was like,
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3: What was inside the door?
Speaker 1: Nothing?
Speaker 2: We thought it was one of the kids coming through.
Speaker 2: There was nobody there, nothing, The door just opened. Just
Speaker 2: tell me about it right now?
Speaker 3: So crazy?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, it's crazy. All right, We're completely out
Speaker 1: of time. I don't know if we if we don't.
Speaker 3: Are we supposed to be talking about joy?
Speaker 2: But if you don't know if you noticed, but I
Speaker 2: tried to get you to talk about everything, throw your joy.
Speaker 3: But what's the joy?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 3: The things that bring me joy?
Speaker 1: Your faith, your family?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Got it?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 2: But you know what, if you want to define it
Speaker 2: in some way, put a button.
Speaker 1: I'm very happy with that a.
Speaker 3: Button on it.
Speaker 1: I mean, what does define joy for you?
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I think it has to be just
Speaker 3: making people happy and trying to I mean for me anyways,
Speaker 3: I like to do that. I like to make people happy.
Speaker 3: I like to okay, if it's stuff that's not related
Speaker 3: to family, because obviously that that's like a given I supposed,
Speaker 3: but I will always not yeah, that's true, maybe not.
Speaker 1: Not always any mean.
Speaker 2: The reason why I didn't like bring it up in
Speaker 2: a fashion and just ask you directly is because I
Speaker 2: think sometimes it's nice to talk to people and find
Speaker 2: out what makes them happy without saying what makes you happy?
Speaker 3: Right exactly? No, I get that, but I I would
Speaker 3: have to say that. I think music for me, and
Speaker 3: you know, because I came to it. I've always loved
Speaker 3: music and wish that I had started it younger, but
Speaker 3: it didn't happen that way. And when I finally did
Speaker 3: start making music twelve years ago, it was as if
Speaker 3: I could finally express myself in a creative way that
Speaker 3: felt so truthful. Because in acting, I've done wonderful things, right,
Speaker 3: I'm very grateful for them, But in some ways I
Speaker 3: also exhausted the canon of warm, kind, nurturing wife, daughter, sister, mother, friend.
Speaker 1: It's also a collaborative platform.
Speaker 2: You know, you're working with a whole bunch of different people,
Speaker 2: coming with a whole bunch of different angles and agenda, right,
Speaker 2: whereas a musicianist like you drive the thing a little
Speaker 2: bit more.
Speaker 3: And it was really it just brings me so much
Speaker 3: joy to do that. Like when I know that I
Speaker 3: have a writing session or I'm going to go in
Speaker 3: and record something, it just I'm so excited and that
Speaker 3: absolutely brings me joy. And you know, look, you're right,
Speaker 3: my faith is a huge driver of that, I think
Speaker 3: because I I have faith. You know, it gets tested.
Speaker 3: Everybody gets tested, you know, we have that happen. But
Speaker 3: I still feel like at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: I have that. So there's a great line. Do you
Speaker 3: remember the movie Chariots of Fire? Yes, all right, so
Speaker 3: when Chariot's the fire, it's one of my favorite line.
Speaker 3: Greek people would say, Vangelis soundtrack. The Greek people would
Speaker 3: always if there's a Greek person somewhere in the vicinity
Speaker 3: of a conversation, a Greek will point that out.
Speaker 2: So in the Vangelist movie Charities of Fire, it's about
Speaker 2: a Scottish runner who is very religious man, and the
Speaker 2: story is that he won't run in the Olympics on
Speaker 2: a Sunday, right, and there's a big problem because that's
Speaker 2: when the final is and that's the story of the
Speaker 2: movie sort of. And his sister, who's even more religious
Speaker 2: than him, doesn't want them to run at all because
Speaker 2: they've got to go their their missionary work in China
Speaker 2: is what needs them and he says this line to her.
Speaker 1: I don't know who wrote the script.
Speaker 2: It's terrible, but there's a great line in the they're
Speaker 2: walking in the hill above Edinburgh and she's saying she's
Speaker 2: trying to persuade him no to go to the Olympics,
Speaker 2: and he says, I believe God made me.
Speaker 1: For a purpose and that purpose is China. But when
Speaker 1: I run, I feel his pleasure.
Speaker 3: Oh that's so beautiful.
Speaker 1: And I think that can be your music for you beautiful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it feels like that, It really does, and and
Speaker 3: I can't it's it is, it's exactly that. It's exactly that.
Speaker 3: And now that we're talking about it, you're making me
Speaker 3: think about all or sorts of other things, because some
Speaker 3: of them tie together. Earlier you asked me, what gives
Speaker 3: me joy? Like I love I'm a hobbyist, but I
Speaker 3: do watercolor painting, okay, perfect, and it is. It gives
Speaker 3: me so much joy because here's why. I always wanted
Speaker 3: to try it, and I never could do it, and
Speaker 3: I was like, why am I not doing it? I
Speaker 3: had organized, you know, organizing all the vacations for the
Speaker 3: families when the kids were little and all of that,
Speaker 3: and they'd all be said up and very happy in
Speaker 3: doing all the things and having their activities, and I'd
Speaker 3: feel like, oh, what am I supposed to be doing now?
Speaker 3: And I thought, I need a hobby. I need something
Speaker 3: I can do like that. So I researched a painting
Speaker 3: class and I went one day a week for five
Speaker 3: years from September till June. And I knew nothing when
Speaker 3: I started this class. Nothing. And it was probably the
Speaker 3: thing that led me to find songwriting, because I thought,
Speaker 3: if you do something consistently enough, you don't get worse
Speaker 3: at it, you donnot get worse at it, you will improve.
Speaker 3: And I thought, yeah, with a matter of discipline and
Speaker 3: just consistency, this happens. And I met the most amazing people,
Speaker 3: and they were people out of this incredible walk of
Speaker 3: life that you're like this. One guy used to run
Speaker 3: ABC Studios. Brandon's Daughterard incredible man. He passed away now,
Speaker 3: such a lovely human being. He was an incredible artist,
Speaker 3: and you know you think, God, you know he didn't
Speaker 3: have that what you don't know about that exists within
Speaker 3: you that unless you sort of explore it and say, Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm going to try this, I'm going to do it
Speaker 3: like you did with flying a plane. I mean, you
Speaker 3: came out of it because you were afraid of it.
Speaker 3: But there might be something you could do out of
Speaker 3: the joy of it, just because you're like, well, i
Speaker 3: don't know how to river dance, but I'm going to learn.
Speaker 1: It's like you know me, but I've seen it do yourself. Finally,
Speaker 1: I feel like I've been released.
Speaker 2: But it's funny because I think what it is is
Speaker 2: that when you're young, when a person is young, I
Speaker 2: think they judge themselves and they look at the results.
Speaker 2: The biggest challenge I have when I start writing anything,
Speaker 2: no anymore, but it used to be I would start saying,
Speaker 2: you know, once upon a time or whatever it was
Speaker 2: that I wrote right, and then by the third sentence
Speaker 2: I was constructing my thank you speech.
Speaker 3: Like, no, were you funny as a kid?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think I probably.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you knew that you could make people laugh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I knew I had better or they me,
Speaker 2: so that it was kind of like not so much
Speaker 2: my family, but but in the society I grew up
Speaker 2: and yeah, paid to be funny, yeah right, or something right,
Speaker 2: you know, or just keep your head down? Right?
Speaker 3: It was did you ever do anything different? As just
Speaker 3: like something that you said, I really want to learn
Speaker 3: how to do this, not the flying thing, but a
Speaker 3: creative endeavor, like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what was it?
Speaker 2: And it was for me it was stand up really yeah,
Speaker 2: because because stand up comedy was there was you know
Speaker 2: Billy Corn Yeah, of course. So Billy's twenty years older
Speaker 2: than me. So when I was ten years old, Billy
Speaker 2: was thirty years old. She was just coming to prominence
Speaker 2: in Scotland and I had never seen anyone from my
Speaker 2: background do that, right, It was unbelievable to me. This
Speaker 2: was like, so, I mean Americans did that, but not
Speaker 2: Scottish men from down the road. Billy's a very special
Speaker 2: human being, but he was Jackie Robinson for me.
Speaker 1: He opened the door and so.
Speaker 2: I that was what it was, and I thought, I'd
Speaker 2: like to be able to do that.
Speaker 1: Looks like a really cool thing to do.
Speaker 2: And you know, through one thing and another, in various endeavors,
Speaker 2: I ended up having a crack at it and it
Speaker 2: kind of worked out here and there, and that's.
Speaker 1: What led me into it.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: But it was like it was like an instrument.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know that if you learn to play the guitar,
Speaker 2: you play in a band, you're playing, maybe you write
Speaker 2: a movie score, maybe you you know, work with other people,
Speaker 2: but what you really like to do.
Speaker 1: Is just.
Speaker 3: Exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: And that's what I love about doing it, is just playing.
Speaker 1: To be honest. I felt the same way about about
Speaker 1: Late Night too.
Speaker 2: Is that eventually I thought, you know what, the guy
Speaker 2: who got me into it said, you're a natural for this,
Speaker 2: and I said, you're crazy. I don't even pay any
Speaker 2: attention to this sort of stuff. And he said, it
Speaker 2: doesn't matter, you're natural for me.
Speaker 1: Wow, And he was right. I was Wow.
Speaker 3: I just love those stories. So we're only really limited
Speaker 3: by our own belief systems, or I think what we've
Speaker 3: heard as kids or teenagers, because I think it's not
Speaker 3: even the limitations we put on ourselves. But sometimes you
Speaker 3: know a teacher or a parent or someone you admire
Speaker 3: saying something like you can't dance here, you know, or
Speaker 3: that what was that you just sang and you're oh,
Speaker 3: my ear, And if you're a kid, you can hear
Speaker 3: that and be completely very crushed by it. So I
Speaker 3: think it's I think it's never too late. You just
Speaker 3: got to keep creating and keep doing it.
Speaker 1: Keep but it's too late. Exact time really is too
Speaker 1: late until that point. Keep going, keep going, you keep going,
Speaker 1: keep going. Thank you for having anytime