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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, thanks for listening to Breaking Points with Crystal

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Speaker 1: and Sager. We're going to be totally upfront with you.

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Speaker 1: We took a big risk going independent to make this work.

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Speaker 1: We need your support to beat the corporate media CNN, Fox, MSNBC.

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Speaker 1: They are ripping this country apart. They are making millions

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Speaker 1: of dollars doing it to help support our mission of

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Speaker 1: hour early before everyone else. You get to hear our

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Speaker 1: reactions to each other's monologues. You get to participate and

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Speaker 1: weekly ask me any things, and you don't need to

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Speaker 1: hear our annoying voices pitching you like I am right now?

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Speaker 1: com become a Premium member today, which is available in

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Speaker 1: the show notes. Enjoy the show, guys, Good morning, everybody,

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Speaker 1: Happy Tuesday. We have an amazing show for everybody today.

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Speaker 1: What do we have for Saul? Indeed, we do some

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Speaker 1: interesting stories we are tracking this morning. First of all,

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Speaker 1: you all may have seen last week huge stock price

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Speaker 1: drop for Facebook. They lost like the most amount of

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Speaker 1: value that any company has lost ever in history in

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Speaker 1: one day. And now there's another big development there. Peter Teel,

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Speaker 1: longtime board member, is stepping down from that board. So

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Speaker 1: we'll tell you what all of that means. Interesting move

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Speaker 1: from Rumble with regard to the Joe Rogan controversy. They're

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Speaker 1: making a move. We've got some other updates about the

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Speaker 1: folks who may have been behind some of these this

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Speaker 1: smear campaign. Leslie Wexner. You may know him as the

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Speaker 1: billionaire who effectively propped up Jeffrey Epstein and his lifestyle

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Speaker 1: for years while he had stepped away from political giving

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Speaker 1: for a long time. While he's back Sager, oh good.

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Speaker 1: Apparently his money is still green and a Republican party

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Speaker 1: is happy to take it. See those details. Also some

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Speaker 1: moves at CNN that we are tracking, both in the

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Speaker 1: show and in my monologue. Soccer has an update on

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Speaker 1: his feelings about the rock for you to share. Wrong

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Speaker 1: and tortured monologue had to be done. I haven't read

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Speaker 1: it yet, I'm interested to hear it too. And one

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Speaker 1: of my favorite human beings and one of the most

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Speaker 1: interesting thinkers I think in American life to day. Adolph

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Speaker 1: Ree Junior is going to join us to talk about

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Speaker 1: his new book The South, which is wonderful and I

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Speaker 1: highly recommend. But we wanted to start with what is

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Speaker 1: I think a pretty significant shift in how blue states

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Speaker 1: are thinking about the pandemic. Yeah, this really caught my

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Speaker 1: eye yesterday. It was a big watershed movement. So let's

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Speaker 1: go ahead and put this up there on the screen.

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Speaker 1: So simultaneously, four different Democratic states all basically announced they

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Speaker 1: were going to be ending their mask mandates. Delaware's indoor

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Speaker 1: mask mandate was going to be lifted on Friday, the

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Speaker 1: Governor John Carney announced. That's significant to me, particularly Crystal

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Speaker 1: before you even get to all of the other ones,

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Speaker 1: because it is Biden's home state, and because Carney is

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Speaker 1: a well known kind of to be a Biden surrogate,

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Speaker 1: very much a mind meld. Some of the Delaware senators

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Speaker 1: and others are the people who kind of a speak

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Speaker 1: for him quote unquote whenever people try to get an

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Speaker 1: idea of where the president lies. So that is one

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Speaker 1: of the most significant data points. But let's go ahead

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Speaker 1: and move on to the next one. This was very

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Speaker 1: significant as well, which is that the New Jersey governor

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Speaker 1: is ending the school mask mandate in a move to normalcy.

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Speaker 1: And I'm going to read you specifically what he said.

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Speaker 1: We are all cautiously optimistic in New Jersey that this

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Speaker 1: most recent surge seems to have peaked. However, and what

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Speaker 1: he says specifically is that we have to recognize that

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Speaker 1: this virus is endemic, from moving to a pandemic to

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Speaker 1: endemic using the endemic language from a democratic governor. And

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Speaker 1: we also shouldn't remember we should also not forget Crystal.

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Speaker 1: Phil Murphy did not have as close to a re

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Speaker 1: election as he wanted to. It was much thinner than anticipated.

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Speaker 1: I got Governor Youngkin obviously got all the press, but

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Speaker 1: Phil Murphy came pretty close to getting defeated. So that's

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Speaker 1: certainly one of the reasons behind this. The mass obviously

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Speaker 1: was a huge controversy in Virginia and also in New Jersey.

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Speaker 1: New Jersey overwhelmingly more Democratics, so he still got there.

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Speaker 1: But this move very much a signal. Let's put the

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Speaker 1: next one up there on the screen as well. Almost

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Speaker 1: you know, while we were planning the segment, this came

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Speaker 1: out almost immediately Governor Ned Lamont over in the state

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Speaker 1: of Connecticut, also also in the northeast and a democratic

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Speaker 1: state as well, saying that he will be removing the

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Speaker 1: mass mandate. And then late last night we learned that

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Speaker 1: Oregon has put an expery on its indoor mass mandate.

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Speaker 1: So all of these are very significant. They show that

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Speaker 1: the tide is turning whenever it comes to politics. Here

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Speaker 1: in the state of Virginia, it's still a little bit

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Speaker 1: or not here, but in the DMV area across the river.

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Speaker 1: Let's put this up there. There was a Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: case of the State of Virginia that rejected a challenge

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Speaker 1: out of the Chesapeake County to the governor's executive order

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Speaker 1: which gives parents the right in order to determine whether

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Speaker 1: their kids should wear a mask in school or not,

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Speaker 1: and repealing the indoor school mask mandate. So it's still

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Speaker 1: up in the air as the legal technicalities for that,

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Speaker 1: so it's not the final blow to the actual order itself.

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Speaker 1: But all of these you put together, you can't deny

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Speaker 1: the tidest turn nationally Acria. Let me lay on the

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Speaker 1: Virginia pe it's a little bit more. There were a

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Speaker 1: number of court challenges to the governor's executive order. The

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Speaker 1: controversy here is that schools and some parents are saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: this should be left to the local districts, and there's

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Speaker 1: an ambiguity in the constitution, the state constitution over whether

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Speaker 1: the governor at the state level has the power to

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Speaker 1: institute this executive order, which doesn't just say it's up

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Speaker 1: to parents. It also says school districts cannot themselves decide

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Speaker 1: to have a mask mandate. So the one that was

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Speaker 1: just rejected the Supreme Court level, there was not a

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Speaker 1: finding base on the evidence, and there was no finding there.

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Speaker 1: It was just rejected for procedural reasons. There continues to

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Speaker 1: be an ongoing lawsuit from seven different counties, and I

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Speaker 1: think we have a tear sheet for that as well.

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Speaker 1: They have found temporary relief an injunction, which issue that

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Speaker 1: allows them to keep their mask Mandy in place while

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Speaker 1: appeals are ongoing. And this continues to be litigated. So

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Speaker 1: the parents challenge that they took My understanding is they

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Speaker 1: used a sort of extraordinary measure to take it straight

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Speaker 1: to the Supreme Court. Supreme Court says, no, we're not

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Speaker 1: going to look at this case. We're not going to

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Speaker 1: rule on it, so that one is gone, but this

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Speaker 1: one regarding the seven school districts still continues on. In

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Speaker 1: terms of the larger politics though, I mean, this really

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Speaker 1: is kind of a turning point out. I think it's

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Speaker 1: an accident that all these states made the same decision

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Speaker 1: at the same time. There's kind of strength in numbers.

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Speaker 1: If you're one state, if you're one relatively blue state

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Speaker 1: like New Jersey or Connecticut or Oregon, and you make

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Speaker 1: this decision alone, you'll probably be subject to a lot

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Speaker 1: more scrutiny, a lot more pushback, because we know even

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Speaker 1: though when you look at the overall pulling, the broad population,

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Speaker 1: including a lot of Democrats, are on board with, Hey,

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Speaker 1: we got to live with this about how if we've

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Speaker 1: got the vaccines, we got to figure out how to

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Speaker 1: live with this thing. We got to rethink how we're

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Speaker 1: approaching some of the restrictions that have been in place.

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Speaker 1: Even though I'm pretty solid footing with regard to public opinion,

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Speaker 1: there is a very emotional and very strident response on

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Speaker 1: the other side, saying, you know, people who have been

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Speaker 1: led by the media to I think overestimate the risk

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Speaker 1: of kids, the risk of themselves. The risk of the

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Speaker 1: community who are deeply concerned about things like taking mass

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Speaker 1: off of kids in school. I always think it's important

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Speaker 1: to remember and this is evidence that you and I

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Speaker 1: have both tried to go over as responsibly as we

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Speaker 1: possibly can. First of all, there are no studies that

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Speaker 1: have sort of stood up to scrutiny that prove that

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Speaker 1: masks in school have been an effective preventative measure to

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Speaker 1: start with, so let's start there. It also is important

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Speaker 1: to remember that at the US is really an outlier

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Speaker 1: globally in terms of masking children. In Europe, their recommendations

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Speaker 1: are no mass for people under the age of twelve.

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Speaker 1: We also have evidence at this point of some of

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Speaker 1: the detriments of wearing a mask, so it's not just like,

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Speaker 1: you know, an inconvenience or annoying for you or for

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Speaker 1: your kids. It has been detrimental in terms of child development,

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Speaker 1: in terms of developing empathy, especially for young children. Of course,

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Speaker 1: it makes it harder to understand what the teacher is saying,

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Speaker 1: to understand what your friends are saying. This a particular

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Speaker 1: challenge for kids who are you know, developing language and

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Speaker 1: all of those things. So there have been costs associated

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Speaker 1: with the mask mandates, and I think now, given where

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Speaker 1: we are in the pandemic, it's very clear that moving

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Speaker 1: away from mass mandates, especially in school is the right move,

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Speaker 1: both from a just looking at the evidence and evaluating it,

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Speaker 1: but also from the political right, I mean from the

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Speaker 1: angle people have known this for a long time and

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Speaker 1: watching people catch up with this kind of hilarious. Even Oregon.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they're going to end it on March thirty first.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's still a long time. That's a month

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Speaker 1: and a half, but look better late than ever. Mayor Bowser,

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Speaker 1: by the way, here in Washington, I hope you take

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Speaker 1: a little bit of notice. But here's the real point

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Speaker 1: when it comes to the politics. It was clear with

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Speaker 1: this new photo that was released from Stacy Abrams in

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Speaker 1: which she attended an event, and there's been some information

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Speaker 1: that's come out on this event where it was like

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Speaker 1: a school reading with a bunch of children. She actually

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Speaker 1: required she said, I'll only enter the room if everybody

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Speaker 1: is masked. Well, everybody who was masked, include a bunch

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Speaker 1: of kids, and actually Stacy Abrams was not one of

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Speaker 1: the people who was masked. It became a symbol really

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Speaker 1: of a lot of these policies and of the coming fights.

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Speaker 1: Let's put the photo up there on the screen. So

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Speaker 1: that photo was posted in along with another series from

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Speaker 1: her campaign, but it was very quickly deleted. Crystal, and

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Speaker 1: let's go ahead and put the next one up there

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Speaker 1: on the screen, please, from the Atlanta Journal Constitution, showing

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Speaker 1: that the deleted Abrams tweet shows how school COVID policies

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Speaker 1: are in the twenty twenty two mask or in the

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty two crosshairs. Almost immediately she was targeted by

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Speaker 1: both Governor Brian Kemp, who's running for reelection, and David Perdue,

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Speaker 1: who was running to primary Brian Kemp. One of those

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Speaker 1: two men, probably David Perdue will be the Republican nominee

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Speaker 1: for governor, but both of them went absolutely hard against her.

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Speaker 1: It is the greatest gift and it became a national

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Speaker 1: symbol as well as why are all these people? You know?

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Speaker 1: There was another I think was a Long Island politician

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Speaker 1: who did the same thing yesterday, took a photo of

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Speaker 1: her without a mask on while there's all these kids

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Speaker 1: behind them. How about the LA mayor? Yeah, you tick

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Speaker 1: the photo and Steady held his breath with magic Johnson

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Speaker 1: I would confess. I posted the photo on Instagram and

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Speaker 1: I was like, I hope she held her breath during

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Speaker 1: the photo. I mean, I can't help but just ridicule

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Speaker 1: this absolute nonsense. It drives me crazy watching these little

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Speaker 1: kids with their mass on. But the really important part

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Speaker 1: was whenever it came to how Abrams responded, she did

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Speaker 1: didn't say a word about the mask policy. Instead, she

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Speaker 1: said it was shameful how Republicans used a Black History

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Speaker 1: Month reading event to fuel a pitiful and predictable critique.

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Speaker 1: So basically, she's playing the race black history. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: Black History Month, hass to do? Wait, why you're wearing

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Speaker 1: a mask where all these other kids are. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it was one of the most outrageous things I've seen

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Speaker 1: in terms of her defense. But let's be honest, vary

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Speaker 1: in character for missus Abrams, and I think this is

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Speaker 1: why she's going to go down big time in this

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Speaker 1: governor's race. There's a lot of these people, Crystal, who

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Speaker 1: were made under the Trump years. Abrams and Beatos specifically,

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Speaker 1: they actually did decent enough electorally, but it was off

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Speaker 1: of the backs of all these suburban whites who just

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Speaker 1: hated Trump. They're actually terrible politicians, and they're gonna find

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Speaker 1: out for real how much people don't like them whenever battled.

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Speaker 1: Trump is no longer on the national scene. That's an

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Speaker 1: interesting point. I mean, I think I think the problem

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Speaker 1: and there are a lot of problems, but it just

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Speaker 1: symbolizes how you don't even really believe in all this,

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Speaker 1: like the obsession over the pandemic protocols that you've been touting,

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Speaker 1: because when it's inconvenient for you, you're happy to cast

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Speaker 1: to decide. So what is this really about. It's about

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Speaker 1: the theater of signaling your virtuousness. That's what this is

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Speaker 1: really about. And I think that's what the photo exposes

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Speaker 1: more than anything. As we head into the midterms, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you can see the writing on the wall. Democrats are

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Speaker 1: changing their policies at the state level. There isn't a

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Speaker 1: push at the federal level for like new lockdowns or

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Speaker 1: new mandates or anything like that. They're kind of also accepting,

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Speaker 1: all right, we've got to move forward with this thing.

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Speaker 1: So you're gonna have, on the one hand, Democrats actually

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Speaker 1: shifting their positions and no real threats of like massive

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Speaker 1: lockdowns again. But Republicans are going to hold onto things

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Speaker 1: like this to say, hey, these are the people who

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Speaker 1: they will paint a caricaturist view of what Democrats would

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Speaker 1: do were they back in power, and things like Stacy

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Speaker 1: Abrams and this photo certainly feeds into that narrative. And

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what else is going to happen. Republicans

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Speaker 1: are going to win. It's going to be, you know,

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Speaker 1: an ugly year for Democrats. There's no doubt about it.

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Speaker 1: Do I honestly think that coronavirus is going to be

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Speaker 1: the central issue in this election. I actually don't. I

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Speaker 1: don't think it's going to be the central issue. The

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Speaker 1: Republican base is already energized around it. That's a done deal.

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Speaker 1: The economy is going to be the central issue, as

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Speaker 1: it typically is. That's what voters are telling pollsters that

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Speaker 1: they care about. They feel like their concerns in that

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Speaker 1: regard with regard to inflation and just the sort of

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Speaker 1: chaos and uncertainty of where things stand right now are

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Speaker 1: not being reflected in urgent, urgent action by the Biden administration.

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Speaker 1: You've got what seventy percent of the country that says

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Speaker 1: we're on the wrong track. That's what's going to be

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Speaker 1: a problem for Democrats in this election. More so even

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Speaker 1: than you know, obnoxious pictures like it, I would joint

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Speaker 1: certainly a political issue for it. I agree it's absolutely economy.

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Speaker 1: I would only point to COVID in such that restrictions

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Speaker 1: are causing chaos and misery in people's lives. That's where

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Speaker 1: I think it becomes important, not on COVID itself. I

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Speaker 1: also am really enjoying this sprint by the Biden administration.

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Speaker 1: It just came out this morning. Perhaps we'll go into

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Speaker 1: it later. Biden officials are trying to recalculate US COVID

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Speaker 1: nineteen hospitalizations as if they don't want the national figures

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Speaker 1: to reflect the with COVID hospitalizations because they want to

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Speaker 1: try and not that's interesting. They want to be able

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Speaker 1: to show there's a huge decline exactly exactly, which is

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Speaker 1: so they can show their live you know base. But like,

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Speaker 1: don't worry, it's not as bad. It's just there are

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Speaker 1: so many things that they are trying to acknowledge. Now,

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Speaker 1: you know, with the mass mandates now with recalculating COVID

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Speaker 1: nineteen hospitalization, well, because wasn't it only basically New York

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Speaker 1: that was really doing that that we could get the

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Speaker 1: data out of and it was also counting by that's

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Speaker 1: the other problem with the healthcare system. It's like counting

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Speaker 1: by county data. You know, we should have that on

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Speaker 1: for we had it for years. Yeah, that's I think

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Speaker 1: that's really relevant. But it's become a speci actually relevant

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Speaker 1: with omicron, which is so much which is significantly more mild,

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Speaker 1: but also so infectious. So you have a much larger

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Speaker 1: number of people who are showing up at the hospital

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Speaker 1: for other things but happen to have amicron sort of

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Speaker 1: incidental to whatever real reason. So I would say now

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Speaker 1: more than ever that data is actually really important. Oh

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Speaker 1: it's good, I support understand. Yeah, now I would say

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Speaker 1: I support it. I just am watching this whole national

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Speaker 1: this whole national conversation just changed dramatically along with the polling.

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Speaker 1: And part of the problem is going to be a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who are deeply radicalized on this stuff

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Speaker 1: that will fight tooth and nail for some of these restrictions,

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Speaker 1: have made it part of their identity, and that central

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Speaker 1: tension will become a big electoral liability on top of

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Speaker 1: obviously just the economic chaos in the country right now.

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Speaker 1: So the tide is turning. That's some good news, but

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Speaker 1: there are still many other people within the regime who

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Speaker 1: are ready to fight back. So it's not all but one,

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Speaker 1: that's all I would say. Yeah, I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: the blue states that are sifting right now, the truly

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Speaker 1: blue states that are shifting right now, is the most

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Speaker 1: telling indicator we have that Democrats have decided, all right,

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Speaker 1: we got to move on for this thing. This is

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Speaker 1: killing us. You're very right, Okay, speaking of moving on,

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Speaker 1: Let's go ahead to Facebook. So this, as Crystal alluded to,

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Speaker 1: was a stunning market development that we've been wanting to

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Speaker 1: cover and spend a little bit of time on because

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Speaker 1: it's significant to the future of social media and almost

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Speaker 1: everything that we know. Let's go ahead and put this

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Speaker 1: up there on the screen, which is that Facebook stock

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Speaker 1: actually plummeted twenty six percent in its biggest one day

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Speaker 1: drop ever, erasing some two hundred and fifty billion dollars

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Speaker 1: off of its market capitalization, which is two hundred and

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Speaker 1: thirty from its market cap, bringing it down to six

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Speaker 1: hundred and sixty billion, the largest wipeout of company valuation

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Speaker 1: in the history of the stock market. Pretty astounding, but

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Speaker 1: there were a lot of questions around exactly why and

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Speaker 1: the reason why highlights an ongoing discussion that frustration I

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Speaker 1: think we both have had, which is Facebook. Yeah, it's powerful,

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Speaker 1: but also a lot of the discussion around antitrust and

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Speaker 1: more kind of lags where the current trends are. Facebook

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Speaker 1: is a dying enterprise. Let's put this up there on

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Speaker 1: the screen, which is that the reason why it went

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Speaker 1: ahead and went down? And this makes the case against

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Speaker 1: why Zuckerberg may not care, but the reason why it

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Speaker 1: lost two hundred billion dollars in a day is that

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Speaker 1: they point in the article that this is the first

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Speaker 1: time in the history of the eighteen year company that

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Speaker 1: the daily active users on Facebook went down. Now, this

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Speaker 1: is a little bit more of a counter to the

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Speaker 1: point that I was making, which is that while yes,

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Speaker 1: the active user drop has dropped about all by about

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Speaker 1: a million in terms of daily active users, the first

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Speaker 1: time that's ever happened, they still have like one point

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Speaker 1: nine billions, yeah, eevepn who are on the platform. And

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Speaker 1: because of their acquisitions of Instagram and of WhatsApp that

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Speaker 1: they have you know, increasing numbers of people on alternative

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Speaker 1: or even you know, non Facebook book blue platform. So

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Speaker 1: it's complicated. Facebook, the big blue app is kind of dying.

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Speaker 1: It's becoming much more something that is used by elderly people.

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Speaker 1: I'm speaking specifically in the United States, not necessarily abroad,

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Speaker 1: but they're younger, you know. The Instagram and WhatsApp are

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Speaker 1: actually doing okay, WhatsApp especially exploding abroad. It's a complicated

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Speaker 1: story though. Yeah. So still even with the acquisition of

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Speaker 1: Instagram and WhatsApp, the core revenue for Facebook is their advertising,

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Speaker 1: and the biggest actually bigger than the issue with losing

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Speaker 1: daily active users, which is a huge deal, is the

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Speaker 1: fact that Apple changed some of their security procedures. You've

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Speaker 1: probably noticed this on your iPhone that you it asked

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Speaker 1: you whether or not you want an app to track

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Speaker 1: you across the platform, and so when you opt out,

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Speaker 1: that means that Facebook is no longer getting all the

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Speaker 1: information and all the details about you that it used to,

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Speaker 1: and so that has really hit their sort of core revenue.

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Speaker 1: And I mean they they own this isn't a secret.

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Speaker 1: They talked about it on the call that these changes

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Speaker 1: from Apple have really hit their revenue and hit their

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Speaker 1: ability to you know, profit to the maximum amount off

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Speaker 1: of your personal data. So that's a big issue for them,

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Speaker 1: and there's that's not really changing, So that's a big problem.

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Speaker 1: Then you have the fact that it's not just that

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Speaker 1: the top line numbers, for the first time in this

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Speaker 1: company's history, have gone down. It's that young people are

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Speaker 1: not on Facebook. I saw the numbers. Gosh, I wish

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Speaker 1: I could remember them. But over the course of a decade,

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Speaker 1: it went from something like ninety four percent of young

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Speaker 1: people being active on Facebook to like twelve. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's it is a precipitous collapse in this sort of

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Speaker 1: like coolness and relevance because of course young people set

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Speaker 1: the sort of cultural tone of Facebook. So you've got

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Speaker 1: problem with daily active users declining, You've got problem with

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Speaker 1: the who the demographic on the platform, You've got a

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Speaker 1: problem with the revenue model. And then you have a

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Speaker 1: gigantic question mark in what the next business move is

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Speaker 1: that Zuckerberg is pursuing, which is of course leaning all

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Speaker 1: the way into the metaverse. That's why, Yeah, that's why

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Speaker 1: they change the company name and spending a whole lot

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Speaker 1: of money developing the metaverse in hopes that that is

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Speaker 1: going to be the next big thing personally, and I

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Speaker 1: did a monologue on this before the metaverse sounds like

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Speaker 1: a horrific dystopian hellscape of late stage capitalism, and I

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Speaker 1: hope it fails. I'm not saying it will fail, but

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Speaker 1: I hope it fails. But there are also big question

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Speaker 1: marks about how appealing this is actually going to be

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Speaker 1: to people to like, you know, have their office meetings

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Speaker 1: with a VR headset on instead of just doing it

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Speaker 1: by zoom, et cetera, et cetera. So they're placing a

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Speaker 1: big bet there, spending a lot of cash for extremely

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Speaker 1: uncertain returns while their core business model kind of crumble.

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Speaker 1: So those are some of the things that are going on.

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Speaker 1: I also saw one analyst and I thought this was

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Speaker 1: an interesting and smart point say that part of how

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Speaker 1: in the past Zuckerberg has been able to remain relevant

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Speaker 1: and you know, keep Facebook and sort of like relevant

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Speaker 1: with young people and with these demographics and keep the

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Speaker 1: daily actor active users growing and move into the fields

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Speaker 1: of social media that are more interesting was through acquisitions,

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Speaker 1: right snapping up Instagram, snapping up WhatsApp. Very smart purchases.

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Speaker 1: But the problem with the metaverse is there isn't a

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Speaker 1: player to acquire, So he's demonstrated his acuity in sort

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Speaker 1: of recognizing players out there that are worth acquiring and

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Speaker 1: adding to their business. But he has not developed his

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Speaker 1: He has not demonstrated his acuity in recent years of

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Speaker 1: developing what that next big thing is. So that also

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Speaker 1: makes it a lot more speculative and a lot more

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Speaker 1: uncertain than it has been in the past. Certainly true.

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Speaker 1: You know, the real thing that I want to emphasize

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Speaker 1: is that that on the Metaverse and all these weird,

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Speaker 1: creepy commercials and also integrating Oculus. They actually change the

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Speaker 1: name to Metaquest, which I hate compare Oculus was a

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Speaker 1: way cooler name. After that sounds I'd say, yeah, it

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Speaker 1: sounds much cooler. But like Matrix, they're bringing it all

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Speaker 1: under the umbrella of the Meta Company, and they're going

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Speaker 1: all in specifically because look, doesn't take a genius to see, Okay,

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Speaker 1: we are not popular with young people, but we're printing

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Speaker 1: a ton of money. So that's the one thing I

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Speaker 1: don't want to say that they're failing. They still made

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Speaker 1: thirty seven billion dollars last quarter. Okay, thirty seven billion,

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Speaker 1: and they're using all that money in order to pump

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Speaker 1: in to development of the Metaverse. Try to make a

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Speaker 1: take off try to get people on the Oculus headsets.

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Speaker 1: It was interesting, you know, Oculus was one of the

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Speaker 1: top most downloaded apps post Christmas, meaning that it was

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Speaker 1: given as a gift to a lot of kids, so

431
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,719
Speaker 1: they're playing VR games. I don't want to, you know,

432
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 1: overstate it. I'm not saying millions and millions of people

433
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 1: are using it every day, but it's a sizable, you know,

434
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,480
Speaker 1: little chunk, and we'll see if it takes off. The

435
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 1: real question here is what does the future look like, because,

436
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,199
Speaker 1: as you pointed to, young people are not just not

437
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 1: on Facebook, they're actually fleeing Facebook. And this is where

438
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 1: TikTok is just dominating in a way that it's difficult

439
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 1: to describe. If Facebook's own internal leak data shows that

440
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,159
Speaker 1: teenagers are spending like double the amount of time on

441
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 1: TikTok visa vi Instagram. TikTok is the most downloaded app

442
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,640
Speaker 1: in the entire world, has a billion daily active users.

443
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 1: It's time on app, which is actually what matters most

444
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 1: to these players, is higher and has a much bigger

445
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 1: retention rate amongst people were younger. It's obviously the driver

446
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,640
Speaker 1: of a lot of young culture right now today. That

447
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 1: is an existential threat really to Facebook in terms of

448
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 1: its long term viability, and that's really a thing that

449
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 1: they have no clue on how to do. The other

450
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: point that we wanted to point the thing we wanted

451
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 1: to point out is that billionaire Peter Thiel, who I

452
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 1: think he led the very he wrote the first big

453
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 1: chat at Facebook, like half a million dollars put this

454
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 1: up there on the screen, is leaving the company's board

455
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 1: after he joined in two thousand and five, So pretty

456
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: interesting eighteen years later. The reason being that Teal is

457
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 1: actually wants to leave so he can pursue, you know,

458
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 1: basically pursue pushing what he called the Trump agenda, which

459
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 1: is kind of fascinating. So he was causing Peter Teel

460
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 1: has been causing problems for Mark Zuckerberg for a long time,

461
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: and I don't I'm not saying anything he's doing is bad,

462
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,439
Speaker 1: but his open embrace of Trump, and especially speaking in

463
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,199
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen on the stage and endorsement of Trump, caused

464
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 1: an outcry within Facebook itself, and Teal's ongoing political activity

465
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: has made it very difficult for Zuckerberg because he's got

466
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: obviously got activist employees, but also you know, when you're

467
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 1: a general publicly traded company. In my opinion, you really

468
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 1: shouldn't be, you know, actively political on either side, although

469
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: a lot of them seem to be aligning there with

470
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,160
Speaker 1: the left. But his departure, I would think is still

471
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 1: a watershed moment in the history of Facebook because it

472
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 1: just shows you that the original roots of what made

473
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 1: them so big and such a titanic force in the

474
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: first place, that's gone. We're in phase two and it's

475
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 1: an open question whether Facebook succeeds in phase two. I

476
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 1: personally think they're going to be a lot like Microsoft.

477
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 1: They'll exist, but they're not cool. It's not the cutting

478
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 1: edge thing. Yeah. Microsoft made a lot of money, but

479
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: you know Microsoft is like boring. It's for people in offices.

480
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: I think that's the future of Facebook, Yeah, because it

481
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 1: does have these just sort of like transactional oriented right exactly,

482
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,719
Speaker 1: their marketplace and that sort of stuff. I haven't been

483
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: on Facebook in the year, so I couldn't even tell

484
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:31,239
Speaker 1: you all there. You know, you and I have fan

485
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: pages on Facebook. I had no idea. Somebody sent it

486
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: to me. Really yeah, So I mean I really haven't

487
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 1: been on there in years, but I know they have

488
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 1: like there's like a marketplace function that people use. I

489
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 1: think people can be like the community boards and stuff

490
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: like that Ice uses in college with us. Yeah, So

491
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there is functionality there that is

492
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 1: not clearly replaced by another social media company. That probably

493
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: keeps it from because of course, the big question is like, well,

494
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: we saw the way MySpace was this huge thing and

495
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,199
Speaker 1: then just sort of instantly collapsed. So can you have

496
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: social media companies that just suffer a precipitous decline and

497
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 1: effectively completely crumble out of existence in a relatively short

498
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: period of time. Yeah, we've seen that happen before. I

499
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: think it's unlikely that that's a path for Facebook because

500
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: of this other functionality that's unlikely to be replaced in

501
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: other places. And also, you know, the boomers are going

502
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 1: to be around for a long time. They're very committed

503
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: to it, and it's integrated and they're social life and

504
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 1: how they keep up with people and their grandkids and whatever.

505
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: So I wouldn't say that it's going to just like

506
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: collapse and die. But is it going to be super relevant? Yeah,

507
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: not that much. And the other thing that I think

508
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: is significant, I'm not a big Beeter tail fan but

509
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: he was one of the voices, one of perhaps the

510
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,640
Speaker 1: only voices on the board that was pushing in more

511
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: of an anti censorship, free speech direction in terms of

512
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 1: their content moderation choices. And so the fact that he

513
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,120
Speaker 1: is out it reminds me of you know, the move

514
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 1: at Twitter. Like Twitter wasn't perfect under Jack, but Jack

515
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 1: had some genuine, you know, commitment to try to trying

516
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: to maintain the openness of the platform. We see the

517
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 1: new dude does not share any of that same commitment.

518
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: We've already seen significant policy shifts made by Twitter in

519
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: the wake of Jack's departure, and I wonder if we'll

520
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 1: see similar shifts with Peter Teal off the board. Yeah.

521
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 1: I think that that's correct, which is that he was,

522
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 1: you know, one of the most vocal people on that issue.

523
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: And also he was an increasing critic of big tech.

524
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: That was the other thing I think this is going

525
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: to unleash him. Teal has long been a foe of Google,

526
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: has called them out publicly, both in terms of their

527
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: connections with China but also for being anti competitive. And

528
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 1: I do wonder because he spoke, you know, I've seen

529
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: him speak many times. Is often skating in his critique

530
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,120
Speaker 1: of Facebook, so I mean of social media, of Silicon

531
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 1: Valley in its current form, for not creating anything useful.

532
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 1: You know, the famous line is we're promisedful eyeing cars

533
00:27:58,119 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: and all we got was two or one hundred and

534
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: twenty characters I guess now updated to two hundred and

535
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: forty characters. He's like, we don't actually build anything cool anymore.

536
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: So I wonder if him leading the board will actually

537
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 1: unleash him in terms of his public rhetoric and perhaps

538
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 1: even his future on how that looks. But you know,

539
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,719
Speaker 1: it's a party that's like surveillance companies and stuff too.

540
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: Well that was like Palenteer, But I mean it's going

541
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 1: to put money in SpaceX obviously, and in I think

542
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: what some other space type companies. I'm not biotech. He

543
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 1: sees as when he says he wants to invest in

544
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: the Trump agenda, like that could mean anything. What if

545
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,879
Speaker 1: his version of that? I mean, you can look at

546
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: the people who are most close to him, who are

547
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,199
Speaker 1: running so jd vance full disclosure. You know somebody who

548
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: I know and have known for a long time, Blake Masters.

549
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 1: I don't know Blake Masters, but those two people who

550
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: are both running for Senate and Arizona. Blake actually co

551
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 1: wrote zero to one with Peter Teel. JD worked for

552
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: Peter at some point. They're both very hyper nationalist type candidates.

553
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: So these are people who are Peter is an interesting

554
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: kind of more a heterodox figure, but I would describe

555
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: him as a national figure in terms of economic orientation

556
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: and in domestic political so that means questioning trade orthodoxy.

557
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: That's one of the things that really drew him to

558
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: the Trump agenda, censorship and being anti PC culture, something

559
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: Peter has been on the other side of for a

560
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: long time, famously going after Gawker all of that. So

561
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: I would look to the Blake Masters and JD Vance's

562
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: the people at Holly actually who TiO also backed, I

563
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 1: think in twenty seventeen as his vision for what he

564
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: thinks Republican politics should look like. Yeah, and right now,

565
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: I just saw some recent polling primary not going that

566
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: well for JD. Vance in particular because of his past

567
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 1: Trump anti Trump commentary. What about Blake Masters. So Masters

568
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: is an interesting so full disclosure. Once again, from what

569
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: I know and I've asked around, he apparently has Trump's favor.

570
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: He was at mar Lago. I think he did a fundraiser,

571
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: which is a good thing. But Trump is not endorsed

572
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: yet in the race, and the most recent polling showed

573
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: Masters in like fourth place behind the Attorney General. But

574
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: the thing is is that this is also magabs, so

575
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: forgive me, but everyone's mad at the Attorney General for

576
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: not stopping the steal. So it's possible that Trump does

577
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: get involved to make sure that this guy doesn't win.

578
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: But some what I've heard is that the governor, Doug

579
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: Doocey may also throw his hand and ring in the

580
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: what is it, his hat in the ring, his hand

581
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: of the ring. The governor may throw his hat in

582
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: the ring, and he may run. And he's actually quite popular,

583
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: and even though Trump hates him, I think he probably

584
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: could overcome that in a Republican primary, although that's up

585
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: in the air and up for debate. So it's a

586
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: big mess. And this is all to run against Mark Kelly,

587
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: correct to run against Mark Kelly. The long and short

588
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: of it is is that it's very likely neither of

589
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: these two men win, which you know to be totally clear.

590
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: So it's it's kind of an odd uh pa. See

591
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: this oftentimes with billionaires where they think because they're good

592
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: at like investing or developing technology or whatever, they're going

593
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: to be good at politics, and it doesn't always pan out,

594
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: doesn't always happen. Interesting little couple developments we wanted to

595
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 1: track for you on the Joe Rogan front, so of

596
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: course we went through the whole thing yesterday. The very

597
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: latest development was that Spotify sent out this sort of

598
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: like angsty soul searching email to their employees. The long

599
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: and short of it is, we're going to keep having

600
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: conversations and thinking about how we can do better, but

601
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: we don't believe that canceling Rogan is the way to

602
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: approach this, Okay, So they put there. That's that's their

603
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: marker that they've put down on the table. So Rumble,

604
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: sensing a little opportunity to make some news for themselves,

605
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: throws this piece on the table. Hey, Joe Rogan, we're

606
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: ready to fight alongside you. See the note from our CEO,

607
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: and it says, dear Joe, we stand with you, your guests,

608
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: and your legion of fans and desire for real conversation.

609
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 1: We'd like to offer you one hundred million reasons we

610
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: make the world a better place how about you bring

611
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: all your shows to Rumble, both old and new, with

612
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: no censorship for one hundred million bucks over four years.

613
00:31:58,080 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: This is our chance to save the world in yes,

614
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 1: this is totally legit. Okay, So that's their little play.

615
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, obviously they're trying to grab a little

616
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: attention for themselves. Put the breach of contract and neither Spotify.

617
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: So it's probably not gonna happen. Of course I haven't.

618
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: And it's also not enough money. I mean, that's that's

619
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: an insane thing to say. But also let's say that

620
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: you did have some mass artists Exodus and Spotify went

621
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: back on their word and they canceled the contract or

622
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: whatever and canceled Joe. He would be it would be

623
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: ridiculous for him to go exclusively with anyone. Yeah, I mean,

624
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: he doesn't need to write. And that was always the thing.

625
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: He got big on the open system, yes, and that

626
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: was and that open system meant that he was much

627
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: more protected because ultimately the only pressure point was him.

628
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: He wasn't going to censor himself. And so it was

629
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: only when you got these other entities and other you know,

630
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: corporations involved, and yes, Rumblett appears to be very committed

631
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: to an anti censorship stance, But why would you go

632
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: with anyone when you could obviously just go on your

633
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 1: own and make more money than the hundred million that

634
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: they're offering here and have complete freedom, which is, you know,

635
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: in my opinion, much much more important. I also looked

636
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: it up. Rumble's valuation is at five hundred million, so

637
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 1: I was like, do they even have the cash because

638
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: usually usually these valuations are like ten times what you've raised.

639
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: So it's like, so they only have fifty million dollars

640
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: in cash from who is? It's actually to our previous

641
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: sea not only Peter Teal, also Jade Vance. They're both

642
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: big investors. So I mean it's very possible that they

643
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: have someone like Peter Teele like I'll get yeah, he'll

644
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: do it then sure, I mean, knowing that it's very

645
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: unlikely that it's going to happen. Yeah, I think it's Look,

646
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: it was a good play from a publicity point of

647
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: view for that happened. Obviously have friends who are on Rumble,

648
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: you know, they're having a good time, So I think

649
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: it's an interesting development. I always do and look at

650
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: these kind of alternatives as it's just not the right

651
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: answer to me. And the reason why is because the

652
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: network effects of these big, massive social media companies make

653
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 1: it so that the little gation that happens within them

654
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: is just so vitally important. Yeah, like you can generally

655
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: peel off two to five percent of somebody's user base,

656
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: but that still means ninety percent of people are somewhere else,

657
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,320
Speaker 1: and like that is just something where you have to

658
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: grapple with that, if especially if you're trying to change

659
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: actual public discourse in American culture. Yeah, that is a

660
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: problem which I have not yet seen anyone solve this.

661
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: This is no disrespect to to rumble. This is actually

662
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 1: more of a not even a defeatist attitude, but a

663
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: recognition of like, Okay, in the Internet, there really is

664
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 1: generally one winner in a space you can't solve. You

665
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 1: can't solve this with a private company play. It's so

666
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 1: it's just not possible. You need you need government policy.

667
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's the only way you're gonna You need.

668
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: You need anti trust, you need regulation, or you need

669
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 1: to nationalize these companies that are effectively now the public square.

670
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: And I've thought a lot about this too, because part

671
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: of the problem is, and this is now not specifically

672
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:54,800
Speaker 1: about Rumble, but about a lot of these sort of

673
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: like alternative like a parlor or a gap gap or whatever, getter.

674
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: Why do so many of themctually sort of collapse into

675
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: gab being probably the most notorious example, into truly like terrible,

676
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: a truly terrible ghetto with a lot of really odious people.

677
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:14,879
Speaker 1: And it's because they're trying. Their whole appeal is we're

678
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 1: gonna be Twitter, but without the censorship. We're gonna be

679
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 1: YouTube without the censorship. And so for people who already

680
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: have established platforms on Twitter or YouTube or whatever, they're

681
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 1: not gonna make the switch unless they're really ideologically committed

682
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 1: to that thing. So you're gonna get only this very specific,

683
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:39,280
Speaker 1: likely very ideological sliver. I think Substack has succeeded because

684
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,399
Speaker 1: they didn't they didn't have this model of like, we're

685
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: gonna be just like this other thing, except without the censorship.

686
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: They created a new there wasn't an existing easy newsletter platform.

687
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 1: And so you look at who's on substack, and it

688
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 1: really is across the board. Yes, you've got super cringe

689
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: lib resistance people. You've got super cringe like never Trumpers,

690
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 1: You've got, you know, people like Matt Tybee, You've got

691
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: Glenn Greenwald, You've got me and Kyle. I mean, you've

692
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: got just the entire gamut of ideologies on substack, because

693
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 1: they were actually providing something that was new rather than

694
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 1: just making this kind of like ideological play. So I

695
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: think that's why it's worked out in that instance. But

696
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: I just don't think that there's a private market solution

697
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,359
Speaker 1: to this issue. I think it has to come from

698
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: some sort of government intervention. I'm unlikely as that feels

699
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: right now. I'm lucky enough to be friends with some

700
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 1: people in tech, and the way that they describe it

701
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: is this way whenever you're talking about an actual product. Yeah,

702
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 1: substack not only solved a market problem, it expanded the market,

703
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: as in, it created and solved the problem of I

704
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: want to charge people for my newsletter exclusive content. You

705
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 1: have an economy of scale, an audience. It actually makes

706
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: total sense. But then by its very existence, it's actually

707
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: created new marketplaces in a new expansion of the economy.

708
00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 1: That's what a great product does. In the text bag,

709
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 1: text alternatives, by their very definition, they can't do that

710
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: because what they're doing is they're trying to be an

711
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: alternative to something that has already both created the market

712
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: and expanded the market. So it's actually not the particularly

713
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 1: best business play. And I'm speaking specifically from business. It's

714
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 1: important that you guys understand this because if you do

715
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 1: want to solve this problem, you have to recognize what

716
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 1: phase of what you're in and where exactly the problem is.

717
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: Like the problem with the whole substack thing was not regulation,

718
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,240
Speaker 1: it was that the market. It's the mechanism itself didn't exist,

719
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,320
Speaker 1: whereas here and you like no, like we have pretty

720
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: good technology to give people a video of base or

721
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: on a recommendation algorithm, like this is a we don't

722
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 1: have a market problem yet that has to be solved,

723
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,240
Speaker 1: which is big enough to generate hundreds and hundreds of billions.

724
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 1: Remember this YouTube is making more money than many Hollywood

725
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,720
Speaker 1: studios and they don't spend one dime on original content

726
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,800
Speaker 1: or on talent. That's a great business model and that

727
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: is something that you have to try and reckon with

728
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: whenever you're thinking about these problems. So it's an interesting thing.

729
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: It's a little bit of a tangent, but people need

730
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,240
Speaker 1: to understand too, like where and how these alternative platforms

731
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 1: exist and spring up, and what they're trying to solve

732
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 1: is that whenever somebody's telling you, like this is the

733
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: market or whatever, you have to try and think in

734
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 1: terms of what does this mean to like the vast

735
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 1: majority of people, because the Internet is so big, right,

736
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 1: not just the most sort of like ideological committed folks

737
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: who are willing to take the hit in terms of

738
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: starting from scratch and building up and being on a

739
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 1: platform that just does not have I mean, that's the

740
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: power of social media is all about network effects, how

741
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 1: many people are on the platform, and so yeah, that's

742
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: why I think a lot of these plays don't work

743
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: out when they don't have a unique value proposition. I

744
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 1: think Colin could because it's different, because it's new, it

745
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: has its own new it has now a thing. People

746
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 1: seem to really like that direct engagement for their audence. Anyway,

747
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: we'll see that as a tangent. But there was one

748
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:53,360
Speaker 1: other piece that we wanted to bring to you, So okay,

749
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: you recall that one of the ways that the Rogan

750
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: situation sort of explode and entered a new phase was

751
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 1: the resurfacing of this video compilation of him saying the

752
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 1: N word some twenty times. That's right, okay, And so

753
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 1: there was immediately a question of like, well, where'd this

754
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: come from, who was involved in who was pumping this

755
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 1: into the ecosystem, and what feels like a very sort

756
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: of strategic and coordinated way. You have done a very

757
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: good job tracking this. So I'll actually let you set

758
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: this piece. So it's called there's a group called Patriot Takes.

759
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: It's partnered with another group called Midas Touch. Midas Touch

760
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 1: is run by three brothers who are these miss Celias brothers.

761
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: They one of them used to work for Ellen DeGeneres.

762
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: They run Manager, that's right. So they run a cringe

763
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 1: resistance media operation. It's basically like a Blue Lincoln project

764
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: where they promise everybody that they're fighting really hard with

765
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 1: these crazy ads, and then they take your money and

766
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: then they spend it on more of those ads, which

767
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: generates to more donations, and per the Rolling Stone, they

768
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 1: haven't actually done anything to affect democratic politics. So if

769
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: you're one of those people who's giving them money, you're

770
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 1: basically just you know, creating a little ecosystem. You're not

771
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: changing electoral results. But this democratic organization and super Pac

772
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: which has been given money by Reid Hoffman, who's a

773
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley billionaire, and Bette Midler of the West Virginia fame. Well,

774
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: these gentlemen have been found to be behind all sorts

775
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 1: of different cancelation campaigns, and one of those was noticed

776
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:27,359
Speaker 1: by Barstool founder Dave Portnoy, who had noticed that an

777
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: organization on Twitter which continually would resurface clips of Dave himself,

778
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 1: you know, saying the N word also within a context,

779
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 1: I want to be very clear, or you know, any

780
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: of these anti Barstool campaigns was followed by these gentlemen,

781
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 1: he accused and called them out, saying that they're behind

782
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 1: not only the cancelation of Barstool, but also of Rogan.

783
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: So Dave held a live stream in which he confronted

784
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 1: the three brothers. In the live stream, he specifically calls

785
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 1: out one of them, saying, I have definitive proof one

786
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 1: of you used the N word in twenty fourteen. Do

787
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: you deny it or not? Look how uncomfortable these jets get.

788
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen. I have definitive proof of one

789
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 1: of you three using the word in a text conversation

790
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: with a friend from twenty fourteen that somebody sent to me.

791
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: It shouldn't be used, but I swear to God I haven't. Okay,

792
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: that's a lie. Yeah, you think I'd lie about that?

793
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 1: I think you would lie. Does anyone? Does anyone hear

794
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 1: a fiance named Lexi? I think you'd absolutely lie about that? Period?

795
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: Can am I lying about what I just said? And

796
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: if someone has a fiance named Lexi? That that is

797
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 1: the decision right here? No? No, I'm asking is that

798
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 1: there's that no right context whatsoever to anybody using it?

799
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: Is Lexi a person one of your lives? Yes, Jordie's

800
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 1: fiance is Lexi? Yes, and so that means Jordi did it.

801
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: I'm saying I have definitive proof. Okay, but if that

802
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 1: doesn't define like everything, and I've never done in a

803
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 1: private conversation, I've done three times, all in the air.

804
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: I think context very much matters. So I asked Dave.

805
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: I was like, hey, man, can you give it to me,

806
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 1: I'll have full transparency. I sent him an email. He

807
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: said that per his source, he promised he wasn't gonna

808
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: out it, but per his opinion, it is absolutely real.

809
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 1: So you take it for what you will. Those gents

810
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 1: got very very very very very uncommon. There was another

811
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: exchange another where it came up again, and yeah, Jordi

812
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 1: the one on the top. What's happening, Jordie? His face

813
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: gets Larry like, Yeah, nothing to see here, work out

814
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 1: so well? Huh? I mean, look, the whole point is

815
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:39,320
Speaker 1: that nobody here is condoning the use of this word

816
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: in any context. However, it does matter what the context was.

817
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 1: Were you you? I mean, I don't know how anyone

818
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 1: cannot agree that there's a big difference between using this

819
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 1: as an active, racist, horrific slur and quoting someone else,

820
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: for example. So he's exposing that there may be some

821
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 1: hypocrisy at play here in their you know, moral virtuousness,

822
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: which speaks to a larger point putting the N word aside.

823
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: That listen, guys, all of us have fed up at

824
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 1: some point. There is no you know, perfectly pure and

825
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 1: noble person among us who has always had the perfect

826
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 1: opinions and never done anything that was wrong or mean

827
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:25,360
Speaker 1: or you know, cold hearted. We are all flawed human beings.

828
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: And if there is no room in the society for

829
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: forgiveness and some process of reconciliation, then yeah, and it's

830
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 1: going to be it's going to be an ugly pest

831
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: for all of us. Yeah, Like I said, do I

832
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 1: think that Jeordie is a racist because he used the

833
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:39,919
Speaker 1: N word in twenty fourteen? No, because it's a dumb

834
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 1: ass standard. But you know, Jordie, you're the one who's

835
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 1: putting it out there, So buy your own standard standards.

836
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: Stop firing off about all of this nonsense, and maybe

837
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: stop trying to generate clicks and all this other money

838
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 1: based upon what is clearly a you know, a both

839
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: a democratic off but also probably a money grab. And

840
00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: let's just move on. Okay, all right, let's go ahead

841
00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: and get to the next segment here. This is an

842
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:06,320
Speaker 1: important one. So you know, Leslie Wexner is a fascinating character.

843
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: He's the founder of L Brand's Victoria's Secret, obviously a

844
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 1: multi billionaire in his own right, and one was one

845
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:14,760
Speaker 1: of the most powerful and richest men in the world

846
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: in the nineteen eighties. It's difficult to forget exactly how

847
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 1: central he was to kind of American commerce before the

848
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 1: tech sector really took off. Well, what happened with mister Wexner,

849
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 1: He it turns out that we know now was the

850
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 1: so original source of Jeffrey Epstein's immense wealth and a

851
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 1: lot of the different connections that he made throughout the

852
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 1: eighties and nineties, which culminated obviously at the time where

853
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 1: he was victimizing young women, but really in some of

854
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 1: the worst excesses that we saw from Epstein. Wexner has

855
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: basically been banished from polite society, you know, rightfully, but

856
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 1: he's resurfaced recently in the political world. Let's get put

857
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 1: this up there on the screen. Longtime Epstein associate gave

858
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to the Republican Governor's

859
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:04,800
Speaker 1: Association just last month. That's according to three sources with

860
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: the knowledge of the donation. And actually he's the first

861
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,800
Speaker 1: six figure political contribution that he's given since twenty eighteen,

862
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen being the year that the Epstein scandal exploded

863
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:21,399
Speaker 1: onto the scene. But here's why it matters, and only

864
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 1: people truly understand how crazy this is. Wexner gave Epstein

865
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:30,399
Speaker 1: power of attorney over his finances in nineteen ninety one,

866
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 1: and he gifted him that creepy famous mansion, the fifty

867
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 1: six million dollar mansion in twenty eleven, which means that

868
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 1: their relationship spans from the eighties up until the two

869
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 1: thousand and tens. Now there's a lot of questions, how

870
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: exactly does a multi billionaire like Leslie Wexner just get

871
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: taken in by Jeffrey Epstein? You're going to sign over

872
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 1: power of attorney over your finances when you're a multi billionaire? Yeah,

873
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 1: that's really interesting. Put this up there, which is, actually

874
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 1: there's been a long investigation into mister Wexner and how

875
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:08,359
Speaker 1: exactly that all worked out. And what they say here

876
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 1: and strongly insinuate Crystal is it's almost certain that Epstein

877
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 1: had something on Wexner. You know. The idea is that

878
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 1: he was somehow bamboozled and taken in by him. I

879
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: simply don't believe it. That's the narrative that Wexner has

880
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:24,359
Speaker 1: put out there. Wexner's only addressed at once basically saying,

881
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 1: you know, I never would have guessed that a person

882
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 1: I employed more than a decade ago would have caused

883
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: so much pain to so many people, you know, basically

884
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 1: use the same Bill Gates defense of I wish I

885
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: never met him. But let's move on now, right mm hmm, Yeah, Well,

886
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 1: he sort of almost portrays himself as like a he

887
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 1: wants you to believe, you know that he's we've taken

888
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 1: advantage of poor little, innocent billionaire. How could he have

889
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 1: possibly known? That second tar sheet you put up there

890
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,320
Speaker 1: from the New York Times. What that also demonstrates is

891
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 1: that Epstein was using his proximity to Wexner and the

892
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 1: Victoria's Secret brand to hold himself out like he was

893
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: a modeling, right hen you girls? Right? So this was

894
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 1: his This was part of his scheme to get close

895
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:10,839
Speaker 1: to a lot of young girls. And it is documented

896
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 1: that Wexner was alerted to this behavior. There were two

897
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: senior executives that warned him that this was going on.

898
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: So for him to pretend like he had no idea

899
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 1: and oh my goodness, how could anyone have known? And

900
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: I feel so bad that I could have been associated

901
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 1: with such a nefarious person. Come on, now, you had

902
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 1: at least some warnings that there were some things going

903
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 1: on that shouldn't have been going on, and yet you

904
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 1: continued to not only associate with him, but to provide

905
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 1: him with the funds to have the lifestyle that enabled

906
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 1: his behavior, allowed him to get into all of these

907
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 1: elite circles which came not only with you know, access

908
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 1: to high corridors of power about both the Democratic and

909
00:47:55,239 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 1: Republican party side, but also provided you with protection. I mean,

910
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:02,759
Speaker 1: that's why he was allowed to get away with it

911
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 1: for so many years. That's why he was able to

912
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 1: cut such a sweetheart deal in Florida that he was

913
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 1: you know, serving out his short sentence hanging out at

914
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 1: his office in Palm Beach, where he was able to

915
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: get this you know, sort of blanket like okay, and

916
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 1: that's it. We're not going to have any more lawsuits

917
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 1: after this for many of these other victims. And then,

918
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 1: by the way, I'm gonna let all my associates off

919
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 1: the hook as well. All of that was set up

920
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 1: and enabled by Leslie Wesner and for Republicans. After a

921
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 1: couple of years of san he you know, went rightfully

922
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 1: talking also about you know, Hillary and Bill Clinton and

923
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: the Epstein, which is a totally legit Casey, why are

924
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 1: you taking this guy's like now that now that the

925
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 1: you know, attention is a little bit a little bit dimmed,

926
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 1: they're happy to take his two hundred and fifty k

927
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 1: to the Republican Governor's association, And you also have to

928
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:57,359
Speaker 1: wonder whether Wexner may be thinking about his own liability

929
00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: and thinking about, hey, you know, might not be a

930
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 1: bad thing for me to continue to have some friends

931
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 1: in high places, just in case there is some sort

932
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:08,319
Speaker 1: of investigation or potential accountability for me to down thelign.

933
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 1: It's funny too, you know, he claims he was taken

934
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:12,919
Speaker 1: in in nineteen ninety one. He's only eighty four years old. Okay,

935
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:14,840
Speaker 1: I was even born in nineteen ninety one, so that

936
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,400
Speaker 1: means he was like fifty years old. Oh yeah, a

937
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: feeble old man at fifty, right, I don't think so, Okay, yeah, right,

938
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,919
Speaker 1: it's not yeah, Oh, the poor little fifty year old

939
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 1: was taken advantage of no thing. For it is clear

940
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 1: as day to me, given what happened and how many

941
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 1: people inside of his own company warned him about what

942
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:39,800
Speaker 1: Epstein was doing and some of the other dramatically shady behavior,

943
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 1: and then the eventual gifting of the mansion that Epstein

944
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 1: had something on Wexner. One. There's one other piece of

945
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:51,800
Speaker 1: this too, which is that one of Epstein's survivor's riea farmer,

946
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 1: alleged that Epstein actually assaulted her at Wesner's Ohio compound

947
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety six. She says she was held against

948
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:03,399
Speaker 1: her wish is there for twelve hours. Wesner's wife say

949
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 1: they had no They of course had no idea. Well,

950
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 1: by the way, they deny this for the lawyers, Yeah, yeah,

951
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 1: they deny all of this. But I think, if nothing else,

952
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 1: that shows you how close these two men were that

953
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 1: he felt entitled to just have carte blanche at Wexner's

954
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 1: estate and carry out his evil and heinous as. I

955
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,240
Speaker 1: also think it's gross because I think this was probably

956
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 1: orchestrated by Mike DeWine. It seems that so apparently Wexner

957
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,840
Speaker 1: is the wealthiest Republican donor in the state of Ohio,

958
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 1: and he's been giving donations only to Ohio based candidates,

959
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:43,880
Speaker 1: people like Representative Joyce Beattie, also to Representative our Senator

960
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 1: Rob Portman and Mike DeWine previously. I think it's clear

961
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: here that DeWine probably pulled some strange facilitated the donation. Look,

962
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 1: I'm calling on them, and I think everybody should in

963
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 1: order to return this money. Screw him, screw his ill

964
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 1: gotten gains. I have a lot of questions and mister

965
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 1: Wexner is welcomed on the show at any time. I

966
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 1: would love to interview with Yeah, okay, a little bit

967
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 1: of update for you with regards to CNN. Let's go

968
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: ahead and throw this tear sheet up on the screen

969
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 1: so you will recall. Steven Hayes and Jonah Goldberg quit

970
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:24,719
Speaker 1: from Fox and put on a statement and you know

971
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 1: they were upset specifically about Tucker Carlson's false flag documentary.

972
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 1: Thing about January sixth, Hayes landed on his feet at NBC,

973
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 1: and now Jonah has also landed on his feet over

974
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:44,840
Speaker 1: at CNN as a contributor. Just cyber, why don't you

975
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 1: run down some of Jonah Goldberg's past hits here, I've

976
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 1: got a few of them. During the Rock War, he

977
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 1: argued in favor of it, saying every ten years or so,

978
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:56,959
Speaker 1: the United States needs to pick up some crappy little

979
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,319
Speaker 1: country and throw it against the wall just to show

980
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 1: the world mean business. He defended colonialism in places like

981
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 1: Africa as more beneficial than it's generally given credit for.

982
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 1: He admitted after the fact that invading Iraq was a mistake,

983
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 1: but he claimed it was a noble mistake, so no

984
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:16,880
Speaker 1: harm no foul. I guess Jonah. My personal favorite was

985
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 1: in two thousand and five. I predict Iraq won't have

986
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:21,880
Speaker 1: a civil war. It will be a viable constitution. A

987
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 1: majority of Iraqis and Americans will in two years time

988
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 1: agree that this war was worth it. That's the thing

989
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 1: of analysis they paid for over at CNN. That's what

990
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,320
Speaker 1: the people expect in demand side. Here's my thing with

991
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 1: Jonah Goldberg. Goldberg is an absolute egomaniac who sees himself

992
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 1: as the arbiter of American conservatism. I have long since

993
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 1: accepted that my views and my general orientation are not

994
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 1: in line with the national Republican movement. That's fine, I'm

995
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 1: doing my own thing over on the show with you, Crystal.

996
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 1: But Goldberg and Hayes like to portray themselves and say no,

997
00:52:57,320 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 1: our elitist position. Both upon trade. He has a much

998
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: more libertarian attitude whenever it comes to economics and neo

999
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 1: conservative disposition whenever it comes to foreign policy. That is

1000
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 1: the true and tried Republican position. He's like the worst

1001
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:13,840
Speaker 1: of the just because we used to work at National

1002
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 1: Review for twenty five years, Okay, cool, I mean, I

1003
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 1: don't know why exactly that entitles you to do anything.

1004
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 1: And the worst part of this is he parlays his

1005
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 1: past credibility as a quote unquote Republican to then tell

1006
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 1: elite liberals what the real Republican party should look like,

1007
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:35,720
Speaker 1: more warmongering and more shipping jobs overseas, and then covers

1008
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 1: his ass by saying, oh, and also, Trump is just

1009
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:40,919
Speaker 1: so so awful and that's how we made his entire

1010
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 1: new career under the Trump years. That I try to

1011
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 1: say is the best summation of why he's such an

1012
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:51,399
Speaker 1: annoying and odious individual. But what's amazing is that from

1013
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,840
Speaker 1: the way the elite media just worships the ground that

1014
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 1: these guys walk on. Goldberg and Hayes have co founded

1015
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 1: a media organization called The Dispatch does quite well on substack.

1016
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 1: I don't know who these people are, but some people

1017
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 1: like them. Okay, that's fine. But what they try to

1018
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 1: do there is both, you know, be the arbiters of

1019
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 1: what real conservatism you know, TM really is, but also

1020
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 1: they take up perchase in elite media and criticize, you know,

1021
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 1: Fox News. That's fine, criticize Fox News here all the time,

1022
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 1: but then you go and work for CNN and for MSNBC.

1023
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 1: And it's just amazing about whose sins are forgiven or not.

1024
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 1: Let's not forget Stephen Hayes also just recently took up

1025
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 1: perch over at NBC News. Put that up there on

1026
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 1: the screen. They're so happy to have him a contributor

1027
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 1: and a political analyst, a guy who literally wrote a

1028
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: book about the quote connection between bin Laden and Saddam

1029
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:46,959
Speaker 1: Hussein and a hagiography of for good measure. And here's look,

1030
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:50,360
Speaker 1: some sins are not forgivable. In my opinion, Iraq is

1031
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 1: one of them. If you are tainted by that, get out.

1032
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 1: I never want to hear a word you say unless

1033
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 1: you're groveling to the American people with apologies for what

1034
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 1: you have wrought both upon the them and upon us.

1035
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 1: And they refuse to do so, that's fine because they

1036
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 1: said something bad about Trump. Yeah, of course, according to Goldberg,

1037
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:10,280
Speaker 1: the noble mistake we ever made is taking this guy seriously.

1038
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:15,239
Speaker 1: But what's especially galling is that Goldberg and Hayes when

1039
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,640
Speaker 1: they left Fox News as analysts over Tucker Carlson, here's

1040
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 1: what they said, let's put it up there. Quote. We

1041
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 1: are not looking to occupy the permanent anti Fox seats

1042
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 1: at CNN or MSNBC. But we thought it worth discussing

1043
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: our decision and the factors that they literally get hired

1044
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:41,479
Speaker 1: by those two hours in November whenever they resign because

1045
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 1: Tucker had a document Now, look, Tucker's documentary included the

1046
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 1: words false flag about January sixth. I don't think that

1047
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 1: that's correct, But the documentary was directionally a lot more

1048
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,759
Speaker 1: true than anything you're gonna hear on CNN or MSNBC

1049
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 1: in terms of FED involvement on January. I mean, this

1050
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:01,759
Speaker 1: is not to absolve riot documentary, So I'm not going

1051
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,880
Speaker 1: to say whether it's more directionally true or not, but

1052
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 1: I will say that it is very telling who is

1053
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:12,759
Speaker 1: allowed in polite society and who is not. I mean,

1054
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:16,759
Speaker 1: what is tell me what's more odious, Like obviously this

1055
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 1: whole cancelation campaign against Rogan for things that he said

1056
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 1: in the past. Where's the cancelation campaign about the people

1057
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:26,719
Speaker 1: who dragged us into war and lied about it and

1058
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 1: can continue to facilitate those lies for years and years

1059
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:34,840
Speaker 1: of years to the massive cost of lives and treasure

1060
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 1: and you know, disrupting the entire Middle East and making

1061
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:42,760
Speaker 1: us all less safe and helping to fuel terrorism. Where's

1062
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 1: the concern about that? And it also is interesting I'm

1063
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:47,760
Speaker 1: about to talk a lot more about CNN and my monologue.

1064
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,720
Speaker 1: They have signaled that they're you know, they're trying to rethink,

1065
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 1: they want a hard news approach whatever. They're clearly with

1066
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:58,360
Speaker 1: this hire just setting themselves up for the next Trump administry.

1067
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:01,279
Speaker 1: They're getting there at their piece into place. And it's

1068
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 1: incredibly pernicious the way that liberals have made common cause

1069
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 1: with people like this for the sole reason that they

1070
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:15,240
Speaker 1: share distrust of Trump. And you can see the results

1071
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 1: of that, you know, in the way that the Biden

1072
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 1: administration has played out, both in terms of foreign policy,

1073
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:23,640
Speaker 1: but I think more importantly in terms of economic policy,

1074
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 1: where people like this are now part of the coalition.

1075
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 1: So when you ever try to do anything transformative, you've

1076
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 1: got dudes like this who have been put in positions

1077
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 1: of trust with the liberal base who were saying, oh,

1078
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 1: we can't do that too far, the definit of the debt, inflation,

1079
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, there you go. It's a

1080
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 1: real pernicious force for the whole country. Crystal, what are

1081
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 1: you taking a look at well? Guys. As Digests reference,

1082
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 1: CNN is kind of in total free fall, and someone

1083
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:54,360
Speaker 1: might need to do a wellness check on Brian Stelter

1084
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 1: in particular, because he seems to be taking this whole

1085
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:02,600
Speaker 1: situation with Jeff Zucker's ouster pretty hard. What do I mean, Well,

1086
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 1: just watch this little monologue that he delivered on his

1087
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 1: show this week. I want to end the hour with

1088
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 1: a final thought, and I'm gonna go a little bit

1089
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 1: roague here, so bear with me, Okay. Jeff Zucker's departure

1090
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 1: was shocking to the staff of CNN, But CNN was

1091
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 1: not built by just one man, not by only Ted Turner,

1092
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 1: and it was not led only by Dev Zuker. CNN

1093
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 1: is so much bigger than any single individual. It is

1094
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 1: about teams and teams of people, thousands of individuals who

1095
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:39,760
Speaker 1: make up CNN. But the people who say we're lacking journalism,

1096
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 1: that we've become an all talk channel, that we've run

1097
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 1: off and we're all opinions all the time, that Jeff

1098
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:52,640
Speaker 1: Zuker led us astray, those people aren't watching CNN. They're

1099
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 1: not watching CNN, They're watching complaints about CNN on other channels.

1100
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 1: They don't know what they're talking about. That's the truth.

1101
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:04,480
Speaker 1: CNN is the reporters and the producers and the production

1102
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 1: assistants and the writers and the editors and the technical directors.

1103
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 1: CNN is the executives, and it's the interns and everybody

1104
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:15,840
Speaker 1: in between who keeps this place running twenty four to seven.

1105
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 1: So when something horrible happens in the world, or when

1106
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:21,520
Speaker 1: something wonderful happens in the world, you know where to turn.

1107
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 1: That's what CNN is. We lost our leader this week.

1108
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 1: We're not going anywhere now. If you've ever watched Brian

1109
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 1: Selder on TV, you may have wondered to yourself, how

1110
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 1: exactly did this dude get this job? And I am

1111
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 1: genuinely not trying to be mean here too. Brian, he

1112
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:43,880
Speaker 1: may well have other skills and talents, but he is

1113
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 1: just really not good at being a TV host. He

1114
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 1: is bad at writing the monologues. He is bad at

1115
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 1: delivering the monologues. He is bad at interviewing, he is

1116
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 1: bad at debating. His expressions, his tone, his mannerant mannerisms

1117
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 1: are all kind of forced and inauthentic. He is clearly

1118
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:01,120
Speaker 1: uncomfortable and it makes the viewer very uncomfort watching him.

1119
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:04,760
Speaker 1: And that's putting aside the extremely cringe content, of course,

1120
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:07,440
Speaker 1: But now having watched that clip, you know the answer

1121
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 1: as to how we got this job. This impressively slavish

1122
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:14,800
Speaker 1: piece of CNN propaganda is exactly why Brian Stelter is

1123
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 1: in that chair. In theory, Stelter's job is to be

1124
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 1: a media watchdog, to hold journalists and media organs accountable,

1125
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:26,240
Speaker 1: including CNN. Instead, at the most difficult times, he went

1126
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:29,280
Speaker 1: out of his way to protect his benefactor and patron,

1127
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 1: Jeff Sucker. That's why he famously defended CNN's handling of

1128
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 1: the whole Cuomo affairs like an odd conflict of rules.

1129
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 1: It is an odd conflict, but I don't think if

1130
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 1: we open up their journalism ethics book there's no page

1131
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:45,440
Speaker 1: for this. It's the craziest out of circumstances you can imagine.

1132
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 1: And his real job of being Sucker's loyalist and attack

1133
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:52,040
Speaker 1: dog is why he never reported on the things that

1134
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 1: he surely knew about Sucker, his mistress, and the Cuomo brothers.

1135
01:00:56,800 --> 01:01:00,200
Speaker 1: To describe Stelter as managed opposition would give him way

1136
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:03,640
Speaker 1: too much credit, forever pretending to be oppositional. Viewed in

1137
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:06,080
Speaker 1: another light, You might also view Stelter's monologue as a

1138
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:09,000
Speaker 1: desperate bid to save his own hide, to reassure the

1139
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:11,800
Speaker 1: new regime that his real dedication is to cn on

1140
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 1: the organization, and then he will be equally embarrassingly unethical

1141
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 1: in service of the new leadership team as well. After all,

1142
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:21,880
Speaker 1: no one is more exposed than Stelter right now. With

1143
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:25,400
Speaker 1: Zucker out the door, tabloids are already reporting that his

1144
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 1: demise might be imminent. One source told the Daily Mail Quote,

1145
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:32,520
Speaker 1: He's been Jeff Zucker's water boy for years, and no

1146
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 1: one believes he didn't know about all of this. He's

1147
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 1: been sitting on his moral high horse, doing Jeff's bidding

1148
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 1: and ripping Fox and every other media outlet that Jeff

1149
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:43,640
Speaker 1: tells him to while his ratings crash and burn. Where

1150
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 1: was he on the biggest story at his own network?

1151
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 1: After chastising everyone else in revealing how the real job

1152
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 1: of Stelter was to protect Zucker in target Suckers enemies

1153
01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 1: above all else, it was a real mask off moment

1154
01:01:57,240 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 1: for CNN and Friends. They've been having a lot of

1155
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:03,240
Speaker 1: those lately. Stelter's role is just one small piece of

1156
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 1: what we have learned throughout this whole Jeff Sucker situation,

1157
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:09,400
Speaker 1: and honestly, the way that Zucker played it, blaming his

1158
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 1: departure on a consensual affair that almost no one really

1159
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 1: cares about, it was kind of a masterstroke. Since it

1160
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:18,320
Speaker 1: involved sex and it involved Taudry gossip. It sucked up

1161
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 1: a lot of the oxygen and say shiated the public's

1162
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:23,920
Speaker 1: interest in scandal. But Zucker's resignation really had nothing to

1163
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:26,880
Speaker 1: do with sex and everything to do with corruption, the

1164
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:31,120
Speaker 1: core business model of CNN, and that is the real scandal.

1165
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:34,960
Speaker 1: What actually happened is that fired anchor Chris Cuomo was

1166
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:38,000
Speaker 1: about to blow the whole place up, exposing just how

1167
01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 1: cozy Zucker and his mistress, Allison Gollist were with Governor

1168
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:46,439
Speaker 1: Andrew Cuomo. Rolling Stone reports that the investigation into Chris

1169
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:51,240
Speaker 1: Cuomo had also unearthed unethical behavior by Zucker and by Gollist.

1170
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 1: Quote the source says, the investigation suggests Zucker and Gollis

1171
01:02:55,520 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 1: were advising the governor at the beginning of the COVID pandemic.

1172
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:01,840
Speaker 1: In weighs not dissimilar to what led to Chris Cuomo's dismissal.

1173
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:05,040
Speaker 1: As Andrew sparred on a daily basis with then President

1174
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:08,720
Speaker 1: Trump over COVID messaging. The couple provided the governor with

1175
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 1: talking points on how to respond to the President's criticisms

1176
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 1: of the New York crisis. They also booked the governor

1177
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:18,960
Speaker 1: to appear on the network exclusively, which became a ratings

1178
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:23,360
Speaker 1: boon for CNN, with Chris Cuomo doing the interviewing. That

1179
01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 1: is the real story. Now, listen, you would have to

1180
01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:30,040
Speaker 1: be a fool to believe this type of outright collusion

1181
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:34,360
Speaker 1: and political favoritism is a one off, aberrant event. After all,

1182
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 1: cable news is built on a three legged stool of

1183
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:41,040
Speaker 1: access journalism, tribal partisan loyalties, and old people who fell

1184
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:43,600
Speaker 1: asleep with the TV on. It's the kind of out

1185
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:48,000
Speaker 1: and out corruption that Stelter and his colleagues justifiably railed

1186
01:03:48,040 --> 01:03:50,959
Speaker 1: against when it came to the incestuous relationship between Fox

1187
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:54,960
Speaker 1: News and the Trump White House. In fact, Stelter wrote

1188
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 1: an entire book on exactly that topic. It was titled

1189
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 1: Hoax Ronald Trump, Fox News and the Dangerous Distortion of Truth.

1190
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:05,920
Speaker 1: It is truly amazing to me that he can be

1191
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:10,320
Speaker 1: so brazenly, blindly hypocritical that he writes an entire book

1192
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:14,280
Speaker 1: on Fox's political corruption, but doesn't raise a word of

1193
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 1: protest when CNN's longtime boss is caught engaged in very

1194
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 1: similar behavior. But of course Stelter is not the only

1195
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:24,120
Speaker 1: one at the network far more upset that their benefactor

1196
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:27,240
Speaker 1: is gone than at the brazen political corruption that was

1197
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 1: at the core of CNN's coverage during a massive world

1198
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:35,360
Speaker 1: altering pandemic. Jake Tapper, Caitlyn Collins, Jim Acosta, all of

1199
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 1: them in leaked audio, were very much shook by jeff'sudden

1200
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 1: departure than by his misdeeds. In fact, they aren't really

1201
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:46,480
Speaker 1: troubled by his misdeeds whatsoever. Tapper painted the whole situation

1202
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:49,640
Speaker 1: is Chris Cuomo the bad guy versus Jeffsucker the good guy.

1203
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:53,320
Speaker 1: Caitlyn Collins echoed Tapper and was distraught that the organization

1204
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:55,760
Speaker 1: would be rudderless without Jeff running the show and giving

1205
01:04:55,840 --> 01:04:59,480
Speaker 1: direction on their nine am planning calls. Jim Acosta, of course,

1206
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:03,520
Speaker 1: that his own personally profitable business model of theatrical Trump

1207
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 1: resistance might be in jeopardy. He said, if we had

1208
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:09,600
Speaker 1: not had Jeff Sucker hear during the Trump administration, we

1209
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 1: probably would have been taken out. New comments reported by

1210
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:17,520
Speaker 1: Puck are even more emotionally loaded. Quote. I think that

1211
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:20,680
Speaker 1: what you're hearing and what we're all experiencing is just

1212
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:23,920
Speaker 1: a huge shock wave to all of our mental health.

1213
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:27,920
Speaker 1: We don't understand why the death penalty was necessary. That

1214
01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:32,400
Speaker 1: was from CNN host Allison Cameroda Jake Tapper. He actually

1215
01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:35,280
Speaker 1: held what was described as a wake to mourn the

1216
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 1: loss of Zucker. That was at Tapper's DC home. Again,

1217
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:42,280
Speaker 1: I want to reiterate, these supposed journalists just found out

1218
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:44,880
Speaker 1: that their leading light was engaged in some of the

1219
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:48,360
Speaker 1: very same blatantly corrupt political practices that they claimed to

1220
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:51,960
Speaker 1: occore with Trump and Fox News. And now they don't

1221
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:55,480
Speaker 1: care at all, not even a little bit, And they

1222
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 1: are mournful and filled with despair only that the corrupt

1223
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:02,040
Speaker 1: dude who was the boss was caught and pushed out.

1224
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:04,880
Speaker 1: Do I think that with Sucker gone things will ultimately

1225
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 1: change at CNN, that new management will commit to journalistic integrity,

1226
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:10,680
Speaker 1: clean house of some of the worst actors that ran

1227
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:14,360
Speaker 1: wild during the Trump years. Obviously not. Don't get me wrong,

1228
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,120
Speaker 1: some Zucker loyalists may well be fired. Lord knows, they

1229
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:19,560
Speaker 1: certainly won't prove their usefulness to the new regime through

1230
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:22,440
Speaker 1: rating success. But as long as the cable news business

1231
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:25,200
Speaker 1: model is what it is, nothing's going to actually change.

1232
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:28,040
Speaker 1: They'll just be a new boss with new sikaphants and

1233
01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:31,960
Speaker 1: cronies to preside over the network's precipitous decline. While Stelter

1234
01:06:32,120 --> 01:06:35,840
Speaker 1: was delivering his monologue, the Chiron read, this is CNN,

1235
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:38,520
Speaker 1: and it was a little bit too on the nose there,

1236
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 1: because the culture of clubbiness political favors access journalism and

1237
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:45,280
Speaker 1: holding power to account only so long as it doesn't

1238
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:47,320
Speaker 1: conflict with the interests of their friends, their bosses, and

1239
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:51,840
Speaker 1: their advertisers. That is CNN. And on this one issue,

1240
01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 1: Brian is totally correct. While he and Zucker and others

1241
01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:59,320
Speaker 1: might ultimately be terfed that CNN ain't going anywhere. So

1242
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:03,440
Speaker 1: the increase in comments coming out from these anchors about

1243
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:06,000
Speaker 1: their mental health and if you want to hear my

1244
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:09,520
Speaker 1: reaction to Crystal's monologue, become a premium subscriber today at

1245
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:15,280
Speaker 1: Breakingpoints dot com. All right, Zacher, what do you look at? Well,

1246
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:17,520
Speaker 1: a few weeks ago I did a monologue here. It

1247
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:19,880
Speaker 1: got a lot of attention. Why the Rock should run

1248
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:22,760
Speaker 1: for president? It was based upon my long observation of

1249
01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 1: The Rock as an American icon who could transcend the

1250
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:28,880
Speaker 1: culture war, who seemed genuinely pro America, and up until

1251
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:32,520
Speaker 1: now I thought an ideological ally at least against the

1252
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:35,720
Speaker 1: worst strains of our woke culture. But as long time

1253
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 1: viewers know, I'm happy to admit when I'm dead wrong.

1254
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:40,600
Speaker 1: It seems that he was on a mission to make

1255
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:43,680
Speaker 1: me so with the most recent Joe Rogan controversy. Now,

1256
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 1: at the beginning of all of this, I was frankly

1257
01:07:45,600 --> 01:07:48,880
Speaker 1: excited The Rock, unlike many celebrities, seem to actually stand

1258
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:52,080
Speaker 1: up for Rogan, commenting on his original response around COVID,

1259
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:56,440
Speaker 1: saying quote, great stuff here, brother, perfectly articulated, I look

1260
01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:58,400
Speaker 1: forward to coming on one day and breaking out the

1261
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:01,120
Speaker 1: tequila with you. When someone actually accused The Rock of

1262
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:04,680
Speaker 1: clout chasing off of Rogan, he even responded, quote, I

1263
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:08,160
Speaker 1: don't clout chase. I've been buddies with Rogan for many years.

1264
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:12,200
Speaker 1: His response was articulate, straight up and fair. For years,

1265
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:13,840
Speaker 1: he and I have talked about me going on a

1266
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:16,320
Speaker 1: show one day. I will and we will drink tequila,

1267
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 1: a lot of it. Great as ringing as an endorsement,

1268
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:21,840
Speaker 1: as it gets from arguably the biggest celebrity in all

1269
01:08:21,880 --> 01:08:24,200
Speaker 1: of Hollywood, actually meant a lot to the discourse at

1270
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:26,599
Speaker 1: the time, and then in the course of twenty four hours,

1271
01:08:26,760 --> 01:08:30,000
Speaker 1: everything changed after a man named Don Winslow tweeted, quote,

1272
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:32,920
Speaker 1: Dear the Rock, you're a hero to many people using

1273
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:35,720
Speaker 1: your platform to defense Rogan, a guy that used and

1274
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 1: laughed about using the N word. Is a terrible use

1275
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:40,519
Speaker 1: of power on your part, and you know what he did.

1276
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:44,519
Speaker 1: He responded, quote, Dear Winslow, thank you so much for this.

1277
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:47,240
Speaker 1: I hear you as well as everyone here one hundred percent.

1278
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:49,519
Speaker 1: I was not aware of his nword use prior to

1279
01:08:49,640 --> 01:08:53,519
Speaker 1: my comments, but now I've become educated to his complete

1280
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:58,479
Speaker 1: narrative learning moment for me. Oh my god, I just

1281
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:01,800
Speaker 1: got to say that is so incredibly disappointing. Nobody asked

1282
01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:03,800
Speaker 1: The Rock to comment on this thing in the first place,

1283
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:07,040
Speaker 1: and then immediately afterwards you denount somebody who you now

1284
01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:10,599
Speaker 1: claim to be your buddy of years. Why man, why

1285
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:13,800
Speaker 1: the Rocks brand? Is that he's authentic? The response to

1286
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:16,200
Speaker 1: Rogan certainly seems so, but then in the span of

1287
01:09:16,280 --> 01:09:19,920
Speaker 1: twenty four hours you get some weird corporate hr doublespeak,

1288
01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:23,000
Speaker 1: denunciation of somebody you claim to be a friend. This

1289
01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:26,599
Speaker 1: is contro contrary to everything that made him so likable

1290
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:29,080
Speaker 1: in the first place. And the biggest problem is by

1291
01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:31,560
Speaker 1: bowing to the mob in this case, the Rock is

1292
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:34,639
Speaker 1: opening himself up to all sorts of hypocrisy. You want

1293
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:36,320
Speaker 1: to play the who said the N word game without

1294
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:39,439
Speaker 1: any public context? Okay, what about mister Don Winslow who

1295
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 1: tweeted this in the first place. Turns out Winslow is

1296
01:09:42,360 --> 01:09:44,439
Speaker 1: using the N word dozens of times in his books,

1297
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:48,479
Speaker 1: from his book The Force, his book Savages, his book

1298
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:52,599
Speaker 1: Gentleman Hour, his book High Lonely, his book The Border.

1299
01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:55,880
Speaker 1: You guys get the idea. Winslow is a coward. He

1300
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:58,439
Speaker 1: even locked his Twitter account after all of this was exposed.

1301
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:01,600
Speaker 1: But he just shows how this game is. Take the

1302
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:04,360
Speaker 1: Rock himself. He used the word training like a decade

1303
01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:07,639
Speaker 1: ago when insulting a random person on Twitter. Now, look,

1304
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:09,800
Speaker 1: I say all of this as a fan of The Rock,

1305
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:12,280
Speaker 1: trying to point out to him and his ilk you

1306
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 1: don't have to play this game, and then when we do,

1307
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:18,280
Speaker 1: you find yourself just as much muck as the person

1308
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:21,040
Speaker 1: you were denouncing. You destroy your brand that made you

1309
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:23,880
Speaker 1: popular in the first place, and worse, you create a

1310
01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:27,920
Speaker 1: system which has no bottom in American public life. Compare

1311
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 1: this with a sentiment that an interview in The Rock

1312
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:32,360
Speaker 1: gave several months ago when he was asked for a

1313
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:35,560
Speaker 1: running for president quote, you know, at the end of

1314
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:37,559
Speaker 1: the day, I don't know the first thing about politics.

1315
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:39,960
Speaker 1: I don't know the first thing about policy. I care

1316
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:44,640
Speaker 1: deeply about our country. I care about everyfing American who

1317
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:48,000
Speaker 1: believes red, and that's all of them. It's that type

1318
01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 1: of talk which you drew me to him in the

1319
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:52,960
Speaker 1: first place, but it conflicts with denouncing your friend who

1320
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:56,040
Speaker 1: you've known for years on a clip clearly edited out

1321
01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:59,000
Speaker 1: of context. The greatest irony to me about the situation

1322
01:10:59,400 --> 01:11:02,200
Speaker 1: is that d type, these types of episodes are significantly

1323
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:05,559
Speaker 1: red pilling for a huge number of people, and that's

1324
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:07,519
Speaker 1: what leads people to vote for Trump, who at this

1325
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:10,920
Speaker 1: point is almost certain to be president again in twenty

1326
01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:14,439
Speaker 1: twenty four. The antidote to Trump has always existed within

1327
01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 1: the liberal elite who hate him so much. If they

1328
01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:21,679
Speaker 1: simply stopped acting like such insane hypocrites all the time,

1329
01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:25,600
Speaker 1: nobody would vote for him. A vote for Trump fundamentally

1330
01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:29,040
Speaker 1: is a vote is a middle finger to the mindset

1331
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:32,000
Speaker 1: that made The Rock denounce Joe Rogan. I am the

1332
01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:34,320
Speaker 1: first on the show to say that's not a particularly

1333
01:11:34,360 --> 01:11:36,960
Speaker 1: good reason, but I'm simply telling you the truth behind

1334
01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:40,800
Speaker 1: Trump's appeal. The more these public and hypocritical witchhounts play out,

1335
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 1: the more Liberal encourage millions of people to say screw

1336
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:46,960
Speaker 1: you to them in the only way they still have

1337
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:50,599
Speaker 1: power in their lives, the ballot box. As Crystal pointed

1338
01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:54,559
Speaker 1: out yesterday, the GOP is poised for a historic victory

1339
01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:57,880
Speaker 1: while literally running on nothing. That's not a coincidence. It's

1340
01:11:57,920 --> 01:12:00,640
Speaker 1: a consequence of this mindset. In my monologue where I

1341
01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:02,799
Speaker 1: wanted The Rock to run for president, I said precisely

1342
01:12:02,840 --> 01:12:05,840
Speaker 1: that he should do so because the political system is stuck,

1343
01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:09,160
Speaker 1: broken and nearly irreparable. That we needed a figure who

1344
01:12:09,160 --> 01:12:12,439
Speaker 1: could transcend our cultural insanity and say simple stuff like

1345
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:15,400
Speaker 1: black lives matter and so do the police, to quiet

1346
01:12:15,439 --> 01:12:17,720
Speaker 1: down the culture war move on to the much, much

1347
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:21,920
Speaker 1: bigger problems that we have. Unfortunately, this move only reinforces

1348
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:24,599
Speaker 1: the cultural war that we are in. It demonstrates as

1349
01:12:24,680 --> 01:12:27,400
Speaker 1: long as the cultural war rules us, we are destined

1350
01:12:27,479 --> 01:12:30,600
Speaker 1: instead to reactionary backlash for all time. I don't know

1351
01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:33,400
Speaker 1: why this is so difficult to understand, but alas it is.

1352
01:12:33,920 --> 01:12:35,840
Speaker 1: Until the Rock and anyone else like him stands up

1353
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:38,200
Speaker 1: against this push, we're in for it. I'm going back

1354
01:12:38,240 --> 01:12:40,599
Speaker 1: to despairing. But don't let anyone say that I don't

1355
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:44,400
Speaker 1: admit whenever I'm That was a quick background. Yeah, we

1356
01:12:44,920 --> 01:12:48,600
Speaker 1: started how it's going through and if you want to

1357
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:52,240
Speaker 1: hear my reaction to Sager's monologue, become a premium subscriber

1358
01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:58,759
Speaker 1: today at Breakingpoints dot Com. Joining us now is Professor

1359
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:01,400
Speaker 1: Adolph Reed Junior himself. Great to see sir. Good to

1360
01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:03,680
Speaker 1: see you, sir. Oh, great to see you, guys. It's

1361
01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:07,320
Speaker 1: been a while. Yeah, it's always too long. It's always

1362
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:10,040
Speaker 1: been too long since I last spoke with you. So

1363
01:13:10,760 --> 01:13:12,479
Speaker 1: talk to us a little bit. I'll start right with

1364
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:14,800
Speaker 1: the book. It's called The South Jim Crow, and it's

1365
01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:18,599
Speaker 1: After Lives. There's a few things to say about it. First,

1366
01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:21,120
Speaker 1: you very strenuously object to the idea that it's a memoir,

1367
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:23,880
Speaker 1: because I think it really genuinely isn't, even though it

1368
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:26,479
Speaker 1: tracks some of the events in your life as they

1369
01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:30,680
Speaker 1: pertain to the dissolution of the Jim Crow order and

1370
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:33,800
Speaker 1: what those changes looked like, both for yourself personally but

1371
01:13:33,880 --> 01:13:37,040
Speaker 1: across America. But I also listened to an interview that

1372
01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:40,040
Speaker 1: you did in which you described it as somewhat in

1373
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:44,479
Speaker 1: reaction to the framing of the sixteen nineteen project. So

1374
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:45,720
Speaker 1: I wonder if you could lay on a few of

1375
01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:48,400
Speaker 1: those pieces for us. Well, well, yeah, yeah, I mean

1376
01:13:48,920 --> 01:13:52,720
Speaker 1: I would say it's not exactly. Well, the chronology is

1377
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:55,479
Speaker 1: quite different because I actually started working on this around

1378
01:13:55,520 --> 01:13:57,400
Speaker 1: the beginning of the century, around two thousand and two

1379
01:13:57,479 --> 01:14:00,559
Speaker 1: or two thousand and three, after I think I mentioned

1380
01:14:00,600 --> 01:14:03,400
Speaker 1: this in the intro too, after discussions with a couple

1381
01:14:03,439 --> 01:14:06,479
Speaker 1: of friends. We both have roots in the Deep South,

1382
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:12,080
Speaker 1: one about a decade younger than I won about seven

1383
01:14:12,160 --> 01:14:15,240
Speaker 1: years older, and our recollections are on the turn of

1384
01:14:15,280 --> 01:14:19,280
Speaker 1: the current century that our rough age cohort was going

1385
01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:22,000
Speaker 1: to be the last in the United States with any

1386
01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:26,880
Speaker 1: living recollections of what life under Jim Crow was like.

1387
01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:34,080
Speaker 1: So that much preceded the sixteen nineteen project. But the

1388
01:14:34,160 --> 01:14:37,560
Speaker 1: sensibility is different, right, And one of the things that

1389
01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:44,120
Speaker 1: I've been increasingly concerned about in racial discourse in the

1390
01:14:44,280 --> 01:14:49,760
Speaker 1: US in the last decade or so, is the proliferation

1391
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:52,519
Speaker 1: of a notion that nothing has ever changed, right, that

1392
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:57,439
Speaker 1: that white supremacy, and I should put it in scare quotes,

1393
01:14:57,720 --> 01:15:02,840
Speaker 1: is this kind of trans historical demon basically that has

1394
01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:06,080
Speaker 1: the power to do things and to decree things in

1395
01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:10,320
Speaker 1: the world. And of course that's that's one of the

1396
01:15:10,479 --> 01:15:18,680
Speaker 1: reasons that some people, myself among them, are less than

1397
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:22,240
Speaker 1: enthusiastic about the sensibility behind the sixteen nineteen project, right

1398
01:15:22,720 --> 01:15:26,840
Speaker 1: in the sense that you know, the country has founded

1399
01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:29,519
Speaker 1: in slavery, the country has founded on racism. And I

1400
01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:33,559
Speaker 1: think one of the problems that's both a political problem

1401
01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:44,200
Speaker 1: and an interpretive problem, is a shift from seeing racial

1402
01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:49,040
Speaker 1: inequality is being rooted in institutions and institutional practices, for instance,

1403
01:15:49,160 --> 01:15:54,040
Speaker 1: like slavery as a labor system, right, that's segregation, or

1404
01:15:54,160 --> 01:16:01,080
Speaker 1: Jim Crow as a complex of institutions, structures, laws, and

1405
01:16:01,280 --> 01:16:05,360
Speaker 1: other constraints, to seeing it as all about the attitude,

1406
01:16:05,479 --> 01:16:09,640
Speaker 1: and so that racism becomes, you know, the answer to

1407
01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:15,599
Speaker 1: the question, right of racial inequality. And historian Barbara Fields,

1408
01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:18,960
Speaker 1: my good friend, famously said, you know, the way that

1409
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:20,960
Speaker 1: people talk about slavery now and you can say this

1410
01:16:21,080 --> 01:16:25,960
Speaker 1: about Jim Crow era and share cropping and whatever else

1411
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:29,120
Speaker 1: is at the point of slavery was to produce white

1412
01:16:29,160 --> 01:16:38,200
Speaker 1: supremacy right, not to produce cotton, rice and tobacco, so

1413
01:16:40,320 --> 01:16:44,479
Speaker 1: I'd hoped. So yeah, my initial thought, and I didn't

1414
01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:46,360
Speaker 1: start writing this to write a book. I mean, I

1415
01:16:46,520 --> 01:16:49,479
Speaker 1: just started writing it to write it. I had no

1416
01:16:49,560 --> 01:16:51,760
Speaker 1: idea where it was going, and I very quickly wrote

1417
01:16:51,800 --> 01:16:56,040
Speaker 1: myself into that fifteen thousand word No Person's Land, which

1418
01:16:56,120 --> 01:16:58,240
Speaker 1: was too long for an article and too short for

1419
01:16:58,320 --> 01:17:02,120
Speaker 1: a book. But my idea was just to sort of

1420
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:06,800
Speaker 1: leave some sort of record about what concrete quotitian life

1421
01:17:06,960 --> 01:17:09,960
Speaker 1: was like in the Jim Crow order, and what the

1422
01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:14,280
Speaker 1: order was itself, where it came from, what its historical

1423
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:18,920
Speaker 1: sources and boundaries were, right. And it's only in the

1424
01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:22,360
Speaker 1: course of the last I don't know, decade or less.

1425
01:17:22,439 --> 01:17:25,160
Speaker 1: I mean I tend to think of it actually the

1426
01:17:25,280 --> 01:17:32,679
Speaker 1: high period of neoliberal anti racism as bursting forth around

1427
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:36,639
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen twenty sixteen, when when all of a sudden,

1428
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:41,600
Speaker 1: you know, political anti racism became a raid publicly and

1429
01:17:41,720 --> 01:17:46,880
Speaker 1: aggressively against social democratic politics in the US. But yeah,

1430
01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:50,840
Speaker 1: it's only in that period less than a decade, when

1431
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:55,600
Speaker 1: I think the conceptual and ideological problems that appear in

1432
01:17:55,720 --> 01:17:59,360
Speaker 1: the sixteen nineteen project became much more general and a

1433
01:17:59,479 --> 01:18:02,519
Speaker 1: defindited than American life. Yeah. You know, if you were

1434
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:04,559
Speaker 1: to ask me, as an outsider to kind of look

1435
01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:07,360
Speaker 1: at your life's work, it would be emphasizing the role

1436
01:18:07,439 --> 01:18:10,679
Speaker 1: the class plays in American life and how you obviously

1437
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:13,160
Speaker 1: can take that away from race, but that we have

1438
01:18:13,280 --> 01:18:15,439
Speaker 1: to talk about class for to solve so many of

1439
01:18:15,479 --> 01:18:18,519
Speaker 1: our problems. So could you outline then the book and

1440
01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:23,400
Speaker 1: its role informing your overall outlook around class and perhaps

1441
01:18:23,479 --> 01:18:26,400
Speaker 1: even draw the gym coach to Jim Crow to class

1442
01:18:26,600 --> 01:18:29,479
Speaker 1: pipeline that you saw that then informed you know so

1443
01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:32,240
Speaker 1: much of what you've done for your entire career. Well,

1444
01:18:32,280 --> 01:18:37,080
Speaker 1: that's an interesting question, I mean, to be completely honest. Yeah,

1445
01:18:37,120 --> 01:18:39,880
Speaker 1: I didn't get any special insight, right, I mean I've

1446
01:18:39,960 --> 01:18:43,000
Speaker 1: often said, I know I've said this only partly in

1447
01:18:43,200 --> 01:18:47,160
Speaker 1: just about Obama, but that it can be better, more

1448
01:18:47,240 --> 01:18:49,519
Speaker 1: important to be in the right place at the right time,

1449
01:18:49,640 --> 01:18:54,519
Speaker 1: keep your eyes open, than to be smart. And I

1450
01:18:54,560 --> 01:18:58,960
Speaker 1: guess as sources of my perspective on the class basis

1451
01:18:59,240 --> 01:19:04,160
Speaker 1: of of other white supremacist order. Really, I just inherited

1452
01:19:04,160 --> 01:19:06,840
Speaker 1: the family business. I mean my father and his father

1453
01:19:06,960 --> 01:19:11,479
Speaker 1: before him, you know, had I had that sensibility. I

1454
01:19:11,520 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 1: mean I mentioned somebody not that long ago. I don't

1455
01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:14,920
Speaker 1: think I say this any place in the book, but

1456
01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:19,840
Speaker 1: I recall my father often reacting when I was a

1457
01:19:19,880 --> 01:19:23,360
Speaker 1: little kid to what was then the hegemonic understanding among

1458
01:19:23,439 --> 01:19:29,360
Speaker 1: liberals that the imposition of pornographic white supremacy in the

1459
01:19:29,439 --> 01:19:31,880
Speaker 1: South at the end of the nineteenth century was an

1460
01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:36,479
Speaker 1: effect of the political triumph of the working class whites, right,

1461
01:19:37,200 --> 01:19:42,599
Speaker 1: and that kind of reinforced this absurd notion that the patrician,

1462
01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:45,560
Speaker 1: upper class whites were the negro's best friends, and so

1463
01:19:45,680 --> 01:19:48,120
Speaker 1: forth and so on. But my dad would often say,

1464
01:19:48,240 --> 01:19:51,519
Speaker 1: laughing that, gee, you know, you'd think that if working

1465
01:19:51,560 --> 01:19:56,040
Speaker 1: class whites took power in the South, their first priority

1466
01:19:56,080 --> 01:19:58,160
Speaker 1: would have been to do something for themselves, right, It

1467
01:19:58,160 --> 01:20:01,920
Speaker 1: wouldn't have just been to a press black people. So

1468
01:20:02,160 --> 01:20:05,200
Speaker 1: like I grew up in circumstances and it wasn't that,

1469
01:20:05,800 --> 01:20:09,640
Speaker 1: you know, difficult to see it in one's own experience,

1470
01:20:09,800 --> 01:20:12,840
Speaker 1: through one's eyes, especially if if you've been you know,

1471
01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:15,680
Speaker 1: had the luxury of having been given the frame of

1472
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:19,200
Speaker 1: reference that enables you to see it. Right. But but

1473
01:20:19,479 --> 01:20:21,160
Speaker 1: but you know, but to see the class and political

1474
01:20:21,240 --> 01:20:24,840
Speaker 1: economic dynamics that were operating through through the system. And

1475
01:20:24,840 --> 01:20:28,120
Speaker 1: I guess I don't know. I just I took that

1476
01:20:28,240 --> 01:20:32,120
Speaker 1: in early like like what I'm like my Catechism classes,

1477
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:35,800
Speaker 1: and I and and I held on to that and

1478
01:20:35,920 --> 01:20:40,160
Speaker 1: let the Catechism classes go. It's interesting in the book

1479
01:20:41,240 --> 01:20:44,479
Speaker 1: you detail some of the sort of strategies that are

1480
01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:48,600
Speaker 1: employed by people during that era, just as sort of

1481
01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:51,880
Speaker 1: like you know, tools to get the donuts that you

1482
01:20:51,960 --> 01:20:54,280
Speaker 1: want from the bakery or to be able to get

1483
01:20:54,479 --> 01:20:57,679
Speaker 1: the job that you want. And you also talk about

1484
01:20:57,840 --> 01:21:02,160
Speaker 1: how through the learning about the history and just seeing

1485
01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:05,479
Speaker 1: the photos of you know, the segregated water fountains and

1486
01:21:05,720 --> 01:21:08,559
Speaker 1: the Jim Crow lunch counters, that there's kind of there's

1487
01:21:08,760 --> 01:21:11,479
Speaker 1: a kind of a flattening of the texture of what

1488
01:21:11,600 --> 01:21:14,800
Speaker 1: it actually was like to live through that, especially as

1489
01:21:14,840 --> 01:21:17,040
Speaker 1: a black person on a day to day basis. So

1490
01:21:17,200 --> 01:21:19,360
Speaker 1: I wonder if you could speak to to what that

1491
01:21:19,520 --> 01:21:24,160
Speaker 1: experience was actually like to live through. Yeah, I could. Well, Yeah,

1492
01:21:25,080 --> 01:21:28,240
Speaker 1: the first thing that was was normal life, right, and

1493
01:21:28,360 --> 01:21:30,880
Speaker 1: that's what people need to understand. I mean, my son,

1494
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:35,760
Speaker 1: who is an historian, a real one, often comments and

1495
01:21:35,800 --> 01:21:39,000
Speaker 1: says to his classes that, you know, people now like

1496
01:21:39,080 --> 01:21:43,240
Speaker 1: to talk about slavery or Jim Crow, like it was

1497
01:21:43,320 --> 01:21:46,600
Speaker 1: white people's permanent, sadistic camp, right. But the fact is

1498
01:21:46,840 --> 01:21:51,679
Speaker 1: that there was normal life and people you know, formed

1499
01:21:51,720 --> 01:21:54,800
Speaker 1: aspirations and tried to pursue them, you know, within the

1500
01:21:54,920 --> 01:21:58,599
Speaker 1: context that assumed that the you know, the hegemonic political

1501
01:21:58,640 --> 01:22:02,760
Speaker 1: and economic order. Right, So in that sense it was mundane, right,

1502
01:22:02,880 --> 01:22:08,280
Speaker 1: Like it wasn't h I'm living in permanent fear that

1503
01:22:08,360 --> 01:22:10,400
Speaker 1: the Cossacks were going to come over the hill and

1504
01:22:12,160 --> 01:22:18,200
Speaker 1: eat everybody, basically, right. It was also the case that

1505
01:22:18,360 --> 01:22:22,320
Speaker 1: given where one was positioned within the order and within

1506
01:22:22,400 --> 01:22:26,439
Speaker 1: the social structure, it was possible to have more or

1507
01:22:26,680 --> 01:22:33,800
Speaker 1: less control over the ways that when it engaged with

1508
01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:36,360
Speaker 1: the system or within the system, and as much as

1509
01:22:36,400 --> 01:22:41,479
Speaker 1: possible to insulate oneself. So, I mean, there was that.

1510
01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:46,880
Speaker 1: I'll tell you something else like on this point, though,

1511
01:22:47,120 --> 01:22:50,080
Speaker 1: so like I've in something else I'm doing. I've I've

1512
01:22:50,120 --> 01:22:53,679
Speaker 1: been writing a little bit about the about the recent

1513
01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:56,800
Speaker 1: monuments controversies over the last four or five years in

1514
01:22:56,840 --> 01:22:59,559
Speaker 1: the South, and a friend I was talking to who

1515
01:22:59,600 --> 01:23:02,479
Speaker 1: had who had been reading the book recently, just reminded

1516
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:05,880
Speaker 1: me of this. But one of the arguments from opponents

1517
01:23:06,080 --> 01:23:08,200
Speaker 1: of the of the monuments for people who want to

1518
01:23:08,320 --> 01:23:12,080
Speaker 1: take Confederate monuments down, and lord knows, I've tested those

1519
01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:14,519
Speaker 1: things all my life, I'm and I'll be happy when

1520
01:23:14,520 --> 01:23:18,360
Speaker 1: the last one is gone. But there's this bizarre kind

1521
01:23:18,360 --> 01:23:22,760
Speaker 1: of psychologistic argument that's that carries the stamp of so

1522
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:25,880
Speaker 1: much of contemporary political discourse, but about you know, it

1523
01:23:26,280 --> 01:23:30,559
Speaker 1: talks about trauma and how black people who who grew

1524
01:23:30,680 --> 01:23:34,639
Speaker 1: up around these monuments were traumatized every time they walk

1525
01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:36,880
Speaker 1: past them, and so forth and so on. And my

1526
01:23:36,960 --> 01:23:39,680
Speaker 1: friend reminded me that I mentioned in the book that

1527
01:23:41,080 --> 01:23:48,560
Speaker 1: that that the street, the closest street or block that

1528
01:23:49,000 --> 01:23:51,280
Speaker 1: intersect or street that intersected with the block that my

1529
01:23:51,360 --> 01:23:56,200
Speaker 1: family lived on. It was named after a fellow named

1530
01:23:56,280 --> 01:24:00,520
Speaker 1: General Ogden, And until I was well into it adulthood,

1531
01:24:00,560 --> 01:24:02,720
Speaker 1: well into my thirties, I had no idea who this

1532
01:24:02,840 --> 01:24:09,360
Speaker 1: General Ogden guy was, and I found out during a

1533
01:24:09,479 --> 01:24:14,880
Speaker 1: moment of controversy. But General Ogden, it turns out, was

1534
01:24:14,920 --> 01:24:18,240
Speaker 1: the commander of the Crescent City White League that led

1535
01:24:18,439 --> 01:24:23,040
Speaker 1: an armed insurrection against the reconstruction government and the Metropolitan

1536
01:24:23,120 --> 01:24:27,160
Speaker 1: Police Force in eighteen seventy four. Beyond that, there was

1537
01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:30,680
Speaker 1: a monument, the most odious of the four monuments that

1538
01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:37,479
Speaker 1: were removed in New Orleans, with one called the Statue

1539
01:24:37,520 --> 01:24:41,600
Speaker 1: commemorating the Battle of Liberty Place, which was that insurrection.

1540
01:24:42,360 --> 01:24:50,240
Speaker 1: Right through my twenties, I think the or until well

1541
01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:55,160
Speaker 1: ended them, that monument had been located at the foot

1542
01:24:55,160 --> 01:24:57,360
Speaker 1: of Canal Street, right behind like the end of the

1543
01:24:57,400 --> 01:25:00,280
Speaker 1: streetcar line, And I walked past it on how many

1544
01:25:00,360 --> 01:25:03,160
Speaker 1: times and I never really paid attention to what it was.

1545
01:25:03,240 --> 01:25:05,160
Speaker 1: It just looked like a war monument. I didn't read

1546
01:25:05,200 --> 01:25:08,320
Speaker 1: the inscriptions on it, right, because who would right, right

1547
01:25:08,600 --> 01:25:12,160
Speaker 1: unless we were a tourist. And it's only much later

1548
01:25:12,240 --> 01:25:15,480
Speaker 1: that I learned that this thing was was a commemoration

1549
01:25:15,760 --> 01:25:20,000
Speaker 1: of of that odious moment, right. So I mean that

1550
01:25:20,479 --> 01:25:24,719
Speaker 1: there's a and I think that that the sensibility that's

1551
01:25:25,280 --> 01:25:31,400
Speaker 1: packed into these spurious notions that you know, black black

1552
01:25:31,439 --> 01:25:39,200
Speaker 1: people lived in a nightmarish uh concentration camp basically under

1553
01:25:39,720 --> 01:25:43,000
Speaker 1: I mean Jim Crow just kind of feeds into well

1554
01:25:44,640 --> 01:25:49,240
Speaker 1: Well with the current discourse of of trauma uh as

1555
01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:52,960
Speaker 1: as a basis for new political claims what I think

1556
01:25:53,760 --> 01:25:56,719
Speaker 1: transcends race and and it's kind of behind the curtain

1557
01:25:56,800 --> 01:25:59,960
Speaker 1: driving a lot of this. But but anyway, I've talked

1558
01:26:00,040 --> 01:26:01,800
Speaker 1: so much I can't even recall now whether this is

1559
01:26:01,840 --> 01:26:07,000
Speaker 1: a responsive response to that. That's for you know, it's fun.

1560
01:26:07,280 --> 01:26:09,639
Speaker 1: I didn't know that you've written on the monuments. It's

1561
01:26:09,720 --> 01:26:12,600
Speaker 1: fascinating here what you wrote in twenty seventeen, which is

1562
01:26:12,760 --> 01:26:15,599
Speaker 1: very pressient to current discourse. A focus on the past

1563
01:26:15,680 --> 01:26:18,960
Speaker 1: must not sidestep the need to confront what actually reproduces

1564
01:26:19,080 --> 01:26:22,680
Speaker 1: inequality in the present. Expand on that a little bit.

1565
01:26:23,000 --> 01:26:25,759
Speaker 1: What I'm hearing from you is that the current narrative

1566
01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:28,040
Speaker 1: that just taking a monument down, or that you know,

1567
01:26:28,400 --> 01:26:30,800
Speaker 1: living in the shroud of this was just so traumatizing

1568
01:26:30,840 --> 01:26:33,720
Speaker 1: that simply taking it away enough as a victory is

1569
01:26:33,840 --> 01:26:36,680
Speaker 1: just simply not enough, which kind of brings us to

1570
01:26:36,800 --> 01:26:38,639
Speaker 1: our present day discourse and a lot of the stuff

1571
01:26:38,680 --> 01:26:40,920
Speaker 1: that you wrote in the summer of twenty twenty about

1572
01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:45,120
Speaker 1: the growing anti racist neoliberal movement, why is that a

1573
01:26:45,200 --> 01:26:48,599
Speaker 1: threat to the type of politics that you believe in. Well,

1574
01:26:48,680 --> 01:26:50,920
Speaker 1: that's a good question too, And as luck would have it,

1575
01:26:51,000 --> 01:26:53,320
Speaker 1: I'm kind of struggling through trying to write something else

1576
01:26:53,360 --> 01:26:58,040
Speaker 1: about this that was sparked by a link to an

1577
01:26:58,080 --> 01:27:01,600
Speaker 1: interview that joy Anne Reid did with I always like

1578
01:27:01,680 --> 01:27:05,160
Speaker 1: to give her her props that your Joyanne Reid did

1579
01:27:05,240 --> 01:27:10,439
Speaker 1: with Pete Bootage a couple of weeks ago, in which

1580
01:27:10,520 --> 01:27:14,719
Speaker 1: she gratuitously referred to and then very snarkily, of course,

1581
01:27:17,680 --> 01:27:23,000
Speaker 1: referred to the infrastructure bill as the white guy's employment bill.

1582
01:27:23,080 --> 01:27:26,680
Speaker 1: That's right. I thought, Oh my god, So so are

1583
01:27:26,720 --> 01:27:30,120
Speaker 1: they actually working for the other side now, because that's

1584
01:27:30,520 --> 01:27:33,240
Speaker 1: what that seems to be with That's life and what

1585
01:27:33,400 --> 01:27:36,800
Speaker 1: I've been thinking and coming to it is that. And

1586
01:27:36,880 --> 01:27:40,639
Speaker 1: this is what I'm trying to write about now because

1587
01:27:40,680 --> 01:27:44,240
Speaker 1: I've been asking, like for some time, what why? Why

1588
01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:49,280
Speaker 1: is it right that in that the strain of contemporary

1589
01:27:49,320 --> 01:27:56,040
Speaker 1: anti racist discourse insists that we understand present injustice in

1590
01:27:56,640 --> 01:27:59,880
Speaker 1: terms drawn from the past. Thank you guys very much,

1591
01:28:00,040 --> 01:28:01,599
Speaker 1: going on, get the show out on time. We'll see

1592
01:28:01,600 --> 01:28:01,880
Speaker 1: you later.