1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger. 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: On the side, we are two working parents who love 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode one hundred and fifty nine. 11 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: Sarah and I will be interviewing Josephine at Laurie, who 12 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 1: is a podcaster and writer and meditation teacher, and she 13 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: talks about all sorts of wonderful things related to both 14 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: her fertility, journey of becoming a mom of five, and 15 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: how we can all keep ourselves calm and our stress 16 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: under control in these difficult times. So, Sarah, how do 17 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: you relieve stress these days? Well? I had all these answers, 18 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: but your intro also reminded me that I feel like 19 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 1: I should give a shout out to a book I 20 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: just read okay, which was Carla Naumberg's How Not to 21 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: Lose your We never curse on this podcast, so I'll 22 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,960 Speaker 1: just tell it out asterisk sahiit with your kids, so 23 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: we'll keep this family friendly. By the way, did you 24 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: all know in real life I curse a lot, but 25 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: we'll jo on this but never do it on this podcast. Okay, 26 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: So that tends to surprise people. And then anyway, I'm 27 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: really digressing. It is such a good book and it 28 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: is actually based on a lot of meditation techniques, including 29 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: the very powerful technique of like noticing why you're doing something, 30 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: kind of noticing your own reaction, noticing your own feelings, 31 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: noticing what's going on around you. And it's fairly simplistic premise, 32 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: but I actually found it incredibly powerful. So I am 33 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: not saying that I am someone who loses it with 34 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: my kids all the time. I feel like I probably 35 00:01:55,600 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: do an average amount, but I still feel like her 36 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: book really helped me to calm down in those situations 37 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: where I might have chosen to yell or give out 38 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: kind of a harsh ultimatum or something like that. So yeah, 39 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: good recommendation. Then we should probably all check that out. 40 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: There's a lot of read whatever the word is with 41 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: our kids these days. Yeah, you had mentioned though, Josh 42 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: giving you a night of right, like, Yes, that was amazing. 43 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: I had to ask for it. You know, my husband 44 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: is wonderful, but we have three kids and it's not 45 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: always the easiest to put all three of them to bed, 46 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,679 Speaker 1: so neither of us typically wants to volunteer. But one 47 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 1: night I just said, I cannot do this. I do 48 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: not want to do this. Can you please just do it? 49 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: I want to go in there. I want to go 50 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,239 Speaker 1: in our bedroom like lock the door and like finish 51 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: binge reading Big Summer, which was great, by the way. 52 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: And I did and it was great, I will admit. 53 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: Genevieve then cried for me and I had to put 54 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: her to bed, but it was it was actually up 55 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: until that point, and that's a good level of minute exactly. 56 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: It was actually really nice, and I will do it again. 57 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: I don't know that I need like a specific like 58 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: night every week. I know some people do that, but 59 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: I do think that asking for it when I need it. 60 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: He was completely fine with it, and then he asked 61 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: for it. Actually over the weekend he had a headache 62 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: and it was just like a cant and I was like, 63 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:17,959 Speaker 1: you know what, I feel like really good because you 64 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: did this for me, and I'm happy to do this 65 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: for you, and so I think we may do that 66 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 1: a little bit more. Yeah, that's great. Now. I took 67 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: a sort of evening, not so much a night off, 68 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: but just I was having a really rough day. And 69 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: then I, you know, we still had our sitter in 70 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: after dinner for a little bit, and Michael was with 71 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: Ruth at her softball game, and I said, you know, 72 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: I really need to go for a run. I hadn't 73 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: gotten one in and I was feeling rather flustered about 74 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff, and it was still ninety degrees. 75 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: But I went on a trail run and it felt 76 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: much better in the shade than it would have out 77 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: on the street, and it was just what I needed. 78 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: I came back in so much of a better mood 79 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: than if I had spent that time trying to answer 80 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: random emails, which I was going to do during an 81 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: email triage time. As we discussed in the last episode, 82 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: just recognizing that you're kind of going off the rails 83 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: and having some sort of treat or coping mechanism that 84 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: you have to get yourself back to a normal place 85 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: instead of kind of wallowing in it, which is, you know, 86 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,919 Speaker 1: sometimes satisfying in its own twisted way, but probably not 87 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 1: the healthiest thing long term. If I'm going to wallow 88 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 1: in something, then I it's probably best for me to 89 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: like journal about it, or like write out some words 90 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 1: about it, or even like draw a diagram or something, 91 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 1: because then I kind of get to enjoy the actual wallowing. 92 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 1: But then I feel like the act of using my 93 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: hands to do something prevents me from multitasking, and also 94 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: just kind of, I don't know, it feels a little 95 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: bit therapeutic. So that can be a way to acknowledge 96 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: your crappy feelings but then also relieve them at the 97 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: same time. One ideas well, well, there are more ideas, 98 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: I'm sure f I'm Josephine in this segment to come Well, 99 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: Sarah and I are delighted to welcome Josephine at Lori 100 00:04:55,920 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: to the program. She is a podcaster, writer, meditation teacher, 101 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: all sorts of wonderful things who's going to help us 102 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: cope with our stress during this pandemic. So Josephine, thanks 103 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: for coming on. Thank you so much for having me 104 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 1: I'm so excited to have our conversation today. Yeah, So 105 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: why don't you just quickly introduce yourself a little bit 106 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: to our listeners. So I am a mother of five 107 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: living out in Los Angeles and essentially I help people 108 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: overcome adversity to find joy, and I do that through 109 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: my meditation training, my infertility workshops, as well as my podcast, 110 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 1: Responding to Life, where I chronicle my thirteen year journey 111 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 1: creating my modern day family using non traditional methods of IVF, surrogacy, 112 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: and international adoption. And so I took all those lessons 113 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 1: learned and I'm trying to help other people who are 114 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: in their journey to create their family wonderful. We're all 115 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: about creating wonderful modern families on this podcast. So why 116 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: don't we talk a little bit about that journey. And 117 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 1: you always knew, I mean, going into this that it 118 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 1: was going to require some extra steps, right, yes, So 119 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: because of a pre existing condition on my husband's side, 120 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: we knew right from the get go, and that's where 121 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: we went to IVF. And you know, naively, we thought 122 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: it would be an easier process because we started when 123 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 1: I was much younger and I wasn't the one with 124 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: the fertility issue at the time. Unfortunately that wasn't the case, 125 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:32,679 Speaker 1: and then life happened and we spent several years trying 126 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:37,239 Speaker 1: out IVF cycle after IVF cycle and them not working, 127 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: and then several miscarriages. That made a shift into international adoption, 128 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: which is actually how we started our family. So where 129 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: did you wind up adopting the first set of children from? Then? 130 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:55,239 Speaker 1: We adopted from Kazakhstan, and we chose that program because 131 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: it was much shorter relative to other programs that can 132 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: take up to two to three years. And after doing 133 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 1: multiple years of IVF, I just I didn't want to wait. 134 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: I was so impatient to just start this family. And 135 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: it was a shorter program, so, you know, because I 136 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: think because it required us to live there for a 137 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: month and that's pretty hard for people. So we were 138 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: able to do that, and it was an interesting journey 139 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: out there, I can imagine. So how many children did 140 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: you wind up adopting then? Oh? Right, So our first 141 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: son is the one that we adopted from Kazakhstan, and 142 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: then I carried our next set of twins through IVF, 143 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: and then our last set of twins a surrogate carried 144 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: for us. And how did you go about making that decision? 145 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: You know, so here you have three children and you're like, Okay, 146 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: we want to make our family bigger and to go 147 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: to the surrogac the option because we haven't really talked 148 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: about that a whole lot on this program. So because 149 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: of miscarriages that we had in the past, I lost 150 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: twins at seventeen weeks and then that's why we pivoted 151 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: to adoption, and then from adoption we thought, okay, let's 152 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: give this one more try, and then I carried the twins, 153 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: but it took a lot of doing it. Like I 154 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: had to have the surgery to tie up my cervix, 155 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: I had to be on bed rest, and it just 156 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: wasn't feasible. And actually, through that IVF cycle, we were 157 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: able to harvest so many embryos, so many good looking ones, 158 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: and sitting on them really was so painful because after 159 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: you've done this process, you've literally put blood, sweat, and 160 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: tears into creating these embryos, and just having them sit there. 161 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: Every year we get a reminder we wanted that big family, 162 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: but I couldn't carry them. So it wasn't feasible to 163 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: do surrogacy right away. It's just super expensive. Out of 164 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: the three options, doing that one is the most expensive. 165 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: And fortunately, after a couple of years, which is why 166 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: there's a little bit of a gap between our last 167 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: set and the middle set, we were able to entertain 168 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: the idea and even though we could do it financially, 169 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 1: we wanted to do it. It It was still like mentally 170 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: getting over that hump of asking a stranger to help 171 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,559 Speaker 1: us on this process was really tough for me. So 172 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:21,199 Speaker 1: how did you wind up doing it? Did you go 173 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: through an agency or it was somebody local? I mean, 174 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 1: how does that work practically? Like, if you decide, okay, 175 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:29,959 Speaker 1: this is something I would like to look into, what 176 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: are the steps you then go through? Well, there are 177 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,719 Speaker 1: fortunately many agencies now and the way we vetted an 178 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: agency was through our infertility department. Like the group that 179 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: we used for we knew we were going to use 180 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: them again. They were the ones who helped us conceive 181 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: our middle set of twins, and so we asked them like, 182 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: have you worked with any agencies? Can you recommend them? 183 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: Because I really wanted to take as much of the 184 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,959 Speaker 1: guest work out of process in terms of how facility 185 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: knows how to work with an agency. You know, have 186 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: they done that before? So we wanted someone that they've 187 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: already used in the past, and they were able to 188 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: recommend a great company to us. And so did they 189 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: match you up with a woman who was nearby or 190 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: for a way? I mean, I'm curious, like, were you 191 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: able to be part of the pregnancy, like, I mean, 192 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 1: how what was the what is that part? Like? So 193 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: it's similar to adoption in that you get a like 194 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:34,079 Speaker 1: you get a dosier of the person that you're looking 195 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: to pair up with, and in this case, it's the surrogate. 196 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: And so you go through and there are a bunch 197 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: of questions that you know, you can get a sense 198 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: of what a person is like. It was kind of 199 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: like reading college essays and so, you know, we found 200 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: several people to interview and through that process we finally 201 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: matched up with an amazing woman and we were so 202 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 1: lucky to partner with her. And what was interesting, perhaps 203 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: the most interesting part of this process, was that I 204 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: learned what it felt like to be my husband in 205 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: this whole process because I was just standing on the sidelines. 206 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: I wanted to do so much and I wanted to 207 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: be a part of the process, but there was only 208 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: so much that I could do, only so much support 209 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: that I could offer. I just had to watch from 210 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: the sidelines. And that for me, being someone who's very 211 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: you know I called myself before. I don't use labels anymore, 212 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: but a control freak and just wanting to just be 213 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: able to do everything for myself, it was super tough 214 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: to just be be there on the side and watching 215 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: it happen. It was different from adoption because that already happened, 216 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: like our child was already born. I didn't have to 217 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: sort of wait for that that you know, we just 218 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: got a call and Okay, it's time to go. But 219 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: here I had to hear about every little thing that 220 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 1: you know, that I wasn't able to be a part 221 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: of physically, and so that was mentally tough for sure. 222 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: But then it all worked out. You gots are good. 223 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: You gots a twins. You got a little naughty set 224 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: of four year old twins. I was just gonna ask, 225 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: how old are all your children now? Yep, So our 226 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: son who we adopted is now thirteen, and then our 227 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:21,439 Speaker 1: middle set, the one that carried their eleven, and then 228 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: we have the four year old twin boys who are 229 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: quite a pair, which let's pivot from there to you 230 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: now have this lovely set of five children that have 231 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: come to you in all sorts of ways, and you 232 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,679 Speaker 1: are now at home with them twenty four to seven, 233 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: like the rest of us are. How have you been 234 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 1: surviving the past few months? Has that been a challenging 235 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: that's a good word for it. Yes, it has been 236 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: really tough. I have to give my kids credit, all 237 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 1: of them, for being so adaptable and just being so 238 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: cooperative and helpful. I mean, let's I'm not going to 239 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: sugarcoat it. There are definitely days when I'm you know, 240 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: I'm in my bathroom crying, and then days when I'm 241 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: feeling like I can just take on everything. I can 242 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: bake that bread with my daughter, I can do crafts here, 243 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 1: I can deal with my thirteen year old who's trying 244 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,319 Speaker 1: to do TikTok videos and my living or I mean, 245 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: you know, you have ups and downs. But the benefit 246 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: for me is that I've always been able to fall 247 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: back on this meditation practice that I have, and so 248 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: I like it myself too. The eye of a storm 249 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: where everything around me is chaotic and swirling around, but 250 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 1: in the middle there I am just trying to maintain 251 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: calm just for myself, but also seeping that out into 252 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: the children because they see, you know, how I'm handling things, 253 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: and it's a model for them. Sorry, we are overdue 254 00:13:52,160 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: for a quick break and then we will find out. Okay, 255 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: we're back. I'm very curious, you know, going through the 256 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: fertility struggles that you did, and I can imagine it 257 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: must have been incredibly difficult. Is that when you sort 258 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: of found meditation and mindfulness or how did you end 259 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: up getting started with your practice and what did that 260 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: journey look like for you. It's funny I'd never had 261 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: I wish I had the benefit of meditation during this 262 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: IVF process, during my fertility journey, but I didn't, And 263 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: which is why I'm so passionate about helping other men 264 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: and women right now during their journey and incorporating meditation 265 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: and mindfulness into this practice because it's such it's such 266 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: a good and helpful thing to having your toolkit. But 267 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: so in terms of myself, you know, I got started 268 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: on it because of a friend who you know. We 269 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: were just talking and she said, you really should try it. 270 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 1: I think you would really benefit from it. And I 271 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: kept saying, which is what I hear from men of 272 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: my new clients. No, you know what, I can't. I'm 273 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: so type A. I cannot turn my mind off. I 274 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: have like a million things going on in this head. 275 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: There's absolutely no way I'll be able to meditate. And 276 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: you know, she kept pushing. I finally tried an app 277 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: many years back, and I was you know, it was 278 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: great because I was able to try it out in 279 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: a little baby steps, which is now how I teach 280 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 1: it to other people. You know, meditation doesn't have to 281 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: be this big thing where you turn off your mind, 282 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: like I thought myself, and it doesn't have to be 283 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: super long. It can be a matter of two minutes 284 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: and just sitting there trying to practice breathing or using 285 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: a mantra. And so that's how I got started, just 286 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: this app. And then I started to see the benefits 287 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: in my own life and I just had to get more. 288 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: And that's when I, you know, entered into a teacher 289 00:15:55,560 --> 00:16:00,080 Speaker 1: training program and then from there I started teaching meditation. 290 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: And then I you know, I thought back on my 291 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: life and that journey, and that's when I coupled the 292 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: two together because I thought I really did wish I 293 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: had this back then and being able to remain calm 294 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: during your journey of trying to conceive and also during 295 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: pregnancy can be so helpful. And then transitioning that into 296 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: using that same idea in your motherhood as you're raising 297 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: your children. You can always use that ability to tap 298 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: into your intercom in all parts of that journey of yours. 299 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: I think that, well, I'm very curious. I want to 300 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: hear kind of how you do your work with clients, 301 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: but I also just wanted to comment and hear if 302 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: you had any notes on this. That we tend to 303 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: need meditation and mindfulness the most when it's hardest to 304 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: access in a way, you know, when you're kind of 305 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: in the thick of things going on, and fertility is like, yeah, 306 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 1: the ultimate like you cannot You feel like, Ei, there's 307 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: a storm and you can't control any of it, and 308 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: it seems like, you know, that's the last time that 309 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,360 Speaker 1: you want to go down that path, right because you're 310 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: sort of too mired up in what's going on to 311 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,399 Speaker 1: think that that could possibly be helpful. But then at 312 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: the same time that tends to be for some people 313 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: when it can be the most beneficial, is that something 314 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: you've seen or teach or yeah, absolutely so you can 315 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,199 Speaker 1: also liken it to the pandemic. Right, we're in the 316 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: thick of things and everything is just so out of 317 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: our control there it feels like nothing that we can 318 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: do to sort of get us out of it. There's 319 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:47,919 Speaker 1: all that uncertainty, and it feels tough to think about 320 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: trying something new, like trying out meditation when you don't 321 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: know how. And but the benefit is is if you 322 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: just sit there for a minute, you can instantly feel 323 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: the difference. You're sitting here and you're doing a breathing technique. 324 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: Say you're just breathing in slowly, counting for four seconds, 325 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: holding your breath for four seconds, breathing out for four seconds, 326 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:15,199 Speaker 1: and holding your breath for four seconds. You'll notice, in 327 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,679 Speaker 1: just one cycle, how much better you feel because you 328 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: weren't able to think about all of those other scary things, 329 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 1: all of those other things you couldn't control, because you're 330 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 1: focused on that breathing pattern. And imagine then if you're 331 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 1: able to carry that on much further for a few 332 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: more minutes, a few more cycles, and imagining how much 333 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 1: more relieved you'll feel, how much more space you'll feel, 334 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:44,200 Speaker 1: how much less stress you'll feel. And so even though 335 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: it can seem daunting to try and add something new 336 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: into your toolkit, your self care toolkit, it really just 337 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: takes a minute to see how that will benefit you. 338 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: So give it a shot, just like you would try 339 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: anything new. If you're trying to add onto your self 340 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: care regiment like a new facial mask, right, you have 341 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: to give it a shot and see. And this can 342 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: be as something as short as just a couple of minutes. 343 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 1: So you work with clients now and you've actually built 344 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: a business around this, including a podcast talking about some 345 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,440 Speaker 1: of these topics, but also working with individuals. What does 346 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 1: it look like to do that? Like what does your 347 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: are they group coaching sessions or how would someone work 348 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: with you and what would that be like? Before all this, 349 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: I was working at various studios and teaching classes in 350 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 1: that way, and then I am also doing corporate sessions. 351 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: So you know, my background is in management consulting way 352 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: back in a former life, and so I knew very 353 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: well the stress of working in a corporate environment and 354 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: I thought I could definitely add some value in that 355 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,919 Speaker 1: regard in terms of not just showing meditation techniques but 356 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,959 Speaker 1: also showing them how they can utilize it as stress 357 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: management tools outside of meditation, which is what's so great 358 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: about meditation. You can take little pieces of it and 359 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 1: utilize it throughout your day, whether you're at work or 360 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:13,239 Speaker 1: you're at home, and something like like we just did 361 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: a breathing technique or doing a body scan or doing gratitudes. 362 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: Those are all little pieces of meditation that you can 363 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: just use throughout your day. And so that's what I 364 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,199 Speaker 1: would teach with corporate sessions, which I still do. Everything 365 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: now is on Zoom and I'm able to teach classes 366 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 1: that way, and then privately, I also do regular meditations 367 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 1: or else now fertility specific ones, and those are tailored 368 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: to you know, I speak to a client about where 369 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: they at, where they are at in their journey, and 370 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: then you know what their end goal is for how 371 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: they want to feel during the meditation, and then we 372 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 1: go through a private session that way, and I also 373 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: offer them a recording that they can a personalized one 374 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 1: that they can have with them on their phone. So 375 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: when they're sitting during all these I remember sitting at 376 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 1: all these appointments in the waiting room or you're just 377 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,159 Speaker 1: waiting for that ultrasound, you're lying in that bed. You 378 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 1: want to hear someone's someone cheering you on, someone other 379 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: than that voice in your head, which sometimes the voice 380 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,439 Speaker 1: in your head can be very negative, but someone cheering 381 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 1: you on and offering you some port and encouragement. And 382 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: that's what that personalized recording is because I thought I 383 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 1: could have used that when I was doing this whole thing, 384 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: especially now that they're limiting the number of people that 385 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 1: can go with you to these appointments, so you don't 386 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,399 Speaker 1: have that so that you're in on your spouse necessarily 387 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: with you holding your hand and wishing you luck and 388 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: just offering you that shoulder. So that's why that recording 389 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 1: came about. But there are various ways to do it, 390 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 1: but pretty much virtual, which is great because now I 391 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,719 Speaker 1: can reach a lot more people. That's beautiful. I can 392 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 1: imagine that in that position, it's very comforting and helpful 393 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: to those people, So that's great. I have a maybe 394 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: a personal questions, So do you have any exercises that 395 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: are particularly helpful in a chaotic period at home with 396 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:08,880 Speaker 1: your kids, anything that calms everybody down or at least 397 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,640 Speaker 1: helps you calm down in the midst of chaos. So 398 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: I like shifting our mindset using positivity techniques. And I 399 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 1: used to do it before. I used to do it 400 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:24,360 Speaker 1: at bedtime with my older kids, and I will ask 401 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: them what they're grateful for at the end of the day, 402 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 1: and I'll also ask for their affirmation. And this was 403 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: in part because of my older child, you know, he 404 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 1: was not feeling so confident about himself, and we began 405 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: to incorporate affirmations and then I trickled it down to 406 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: the other kids, so they will all share something they're 407 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: grateful for and then an affirmation of say, I am 408 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 1: I am good at basketball and I so something that 409 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: they're good at, but then also something you know, more deeper, 410 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: so saying I am I am kind or I am courageous. 411 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: And so that's become a routine that we have had 412 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: at bedtime or else. Now at dinner time, I thought, 413 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: you know, let's just do that around the table. And 414 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 1: it was funny because I asked yesterday my four year old, 415 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: I'm trying to get them to share their gratitude to 416 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: see if you know, they can kind of grasp it. 417 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: And I asked one of them, you know, what are 418 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 1: you grateful for today? What are you happy about? This 419 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 1: is how I pose it. And he said, I didn't 420 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: have fun swimming today. And I said, well, we have 421 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: to shift it to being positive. And he said, I 422 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 1: am positive that I did not have fun swimming today. 423 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 1: He's got you there. I have to say, he followed 424 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: the rules. Funny, yeah, but you know that's that's how 425 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,159 Speaker 1: you know there's all this stuff happening, And especially with 426 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: the older kids, I know that they know what's going 427 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: on and in order to shift back into something that 428 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 1: we can control. It's our mindset, our breath. And I'm 429 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: teaching them that, you know, we even despite everything that's happening. 430 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: You can't go to school, you can't play with your friends, 431 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,120 Speaker 1: we can't go here and there, we can still be 432 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,439 Speaker 1: thankful for something. There is always still something to be 433 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: positive about and to you know, to recognize and that 434 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: that instantly shifts your mindset towards this path of positivity 435 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: versus going down that negative road. So that's what we 436 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,919 Speaker 1: practice at home. I love that. Yes, well, I was 437 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: just going to ask. So our listeners have made it 438 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: loud and clear that they love hearing a brief day 439 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,120 Speaker 1: in the life fronts, so we can just hear how 440 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: you fit work and life together, and you can give 441 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 1: us routines that are built into the day, but just 442 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: kind of go through a day for us. Can I 443 00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: kind of make it like a week because it won't 444 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 1: it won't be super long, just in that you know, 445 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 1: there are three days in the week when I finally 446 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 1: ask my babysitter to come back. So that's how I 447 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: kind of manage things in that I know that there 448 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 1: are three days in that week where I'll be able 449 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: to just focus on getting work done because on those 450 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 1: other three days, then I can focus on the kiddos 451 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: because my husband's working from home, and you know, we 452 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 1: don't have help. So in the on the days where 453 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: it's just me and my husband, if there's something that 454 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 1: is happening, for example, this interview, we will make sure 455 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: to tag team out. You know, I'm really lucky to 456 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: have a partner that's supportive of my work, and we're 457 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 1: supportive of each other. So we just make sure that 458 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: our calendar is aligned and we tag team out. And 459 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: the older kids are at a point where they can 460 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: also help out with the little ones, so I'll pull 461 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: in a favor and like right now, my daughter's watching 462 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 1: the kiddos. So in terms of just a regular day. 463 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 1: You know, I wake up and I'll do a morning meditation. 464 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: You know, I do them at the book ends of 465 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: my day. If you meditate a couple of minutes when 466 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: you first wake up, you're kind of setting the tone 467 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: for your day into how you want it to flow. 468 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 1: You're setting an attention for how you want it to be. 469 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: And then I corral the kiddo's and we get you know, 470 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: breakfast done. Right now there's there is in school and 471 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,160 Speaker 1: they're all done with their virtual summer camps. So now 472 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 1: it's kind of a free for all, and I'm not 473 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: really pushing anyone, but I'm really more focused on the 474 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: little kids. So I'll alternate between doing a craft, doing 475 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 1: a puzzle with them, and then being okay that they're 476 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 1: going to watch TV while I hop on my computer 477 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,679 Speaker 1: and do catch up on all the emails that I 478 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 1: have to and not beat myself up. We are on 479 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:02,880 Speaker 1: screen time here. That's no judgment coming from any of them. Well, 480 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:04,439 Speaker 1: you know, you had to. That was one of the 481 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: lessons learned of this pandemic. You just have to learn 482 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 1: to let some things go, which actually has been one 483 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,120 Speaker 1: of the life lessons that I've learned throughout this whole 484 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,959 Speaker 1: journey was this idea of letting go of control, and 485 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: you know, we're all learning it during this pandemic. Things 486 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: are definitely not the way they were before all of this, 487 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: and it's okay. You know, I've learned that it's okay 488 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 1: if the house is a total mess, nobody's coming over. 489 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,640 Speaker 1: So you know, then that's pretty much how it happens. 490 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:38,880 Speaker 1: Like I'm alternating between myself watching the kiddos, my husband 491 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: or else screen time watching the kiddos and doing squeezing 492 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: in work, and then then we have family dinner, and 493 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 1: then while my husband is putting the kids to sleep, 494 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: that's when I squeeze in my evening meditation. So, like 495 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: I said, bookends, you know, you're transitioning from one part 496 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 1: of your day into the next part, and you always 497 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 1: need something to help you you shift into that next phase. 498 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 1: And it helps sort of, you know, meditation helps to 499 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 1: clean the slate, which is why it's great to use 500 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 1: and clutch moments when you're feeling overwhelmed, because it's like 501 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 1: hitting that reset button. And so that's what you're doing 502 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 1: with this evening meditation. You're resetting to a new mindset. 503 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: And then in the evening, it's time to hang out 504 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 1: with the older kids because I really didn't have time 505 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 1: during the day, and we usually are watching a movie. 506 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: I feel like we've watched every movie that exists, and 507 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: we've gotten really creative. With board games. There are a 508 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: bunch that you can do virtually that make it more interesting, 509 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: like we played Clue like the actual board game, but 510 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: it's also fun to do it on the little device app. 511 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: And then and then I put everyone to sleep, I 512 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: ask for the gratitude affirmations, and then I'm usually the 513 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: last one to go to sleep because I try to 514 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: squeeze in just a little bit more work before I 515 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: go to sleep, because I love it when the house 516 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 1: is quiet. So that's that's the only time that happens. 517 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: Because I'm not a morning person, I will not wake 518 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: up earlier than I really need to, but I will 519 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: stay up in order to get a few more things done. 520 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: But I have been working on my sleep, trying to 521 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 1: make sure that I get at least seven just it's 522 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: always good. Sleep is good, sleep is own, part seven 523 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: is good, sleep is good, and seven is a good 524 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: good well, so we always end with our love of 525 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: the week. We can go first, so you can think 526 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 1: about it if you would, like Sarah, you have your setup, right, yeah, right, 527 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: She's always a good one on this, Yes, well mine 528 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: this time is just that I've been doing since the 529 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: pandemic started a little bit more tracking of habits because 530 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: I think there's something about our monotony that you kind 531 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: of get lost or like what day is it. So 532 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: I've been doing a monthly habit tracker with these cute 533 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: little dots to like show what I'm doing. And as 534 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: we're recording this, we're near the end of July and 535 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: I'm just like, really, of course, not every day is 536 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 1: filled in, and that's okay, but it's just been a 537 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 1: fun ritual and I think I'll probably make a new 538 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: one for August. So monthly fin is something. So I 539 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: have a little boy who sounds something like your twin boys, 540 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: Josephine the high energy very you know, go go go. 541 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 1: He's on a lot of camp YouTube this summer because 542 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 1: it's the one thing that will keep him entertained, like 543 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: sitting there watching YouTube videos. I'm saying camp YouTube ironically, 544 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: And the other day, you know, he started to communicate 545 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: a little bit more by drawing things and so the 546 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 1: other day he was forced off the computer and he 547 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: drew a picture of a broken heart because he had 548 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: been forced off the computer. And then, you know, we 549 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: talked about various things and you know, played, and then 550 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: he came back with this, which is the heart mended together. 551 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: I'm showing you guys the picture, so you know, sometimes 552 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: when we can't talk about things, we can draw about them. 553 00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 1: And so I'm enjoying the drawings about our mental emotion state. 554 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: Oh I love that. I love little kid drawings. That's 555 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: that's so sweet. And I like how you mended it 556 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: back together together lesson right there. Yeah, absolutely well, I 557 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: love doing this and sharing you know, our love of 558 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: the week. That's so great. Mine would be I have 559 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: on Saturday my very first fertility workshop, a fertility mindfulness one, 560 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: and I'm super pumped about it. You know, we're going 561 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: to go over the basics of using mindfulness and meditation 562 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: and how to incorporate it into your fertility journey. And 563 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: I'm just really excited to be able to connect with 564 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: women and you know, offer them some guidance on how 565 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: they can use this to help them get through all 566 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: the ups and downs of of look can be a 567 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: really tomorrow, Justine, this is great. Why don't you tell 568 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: our listeners how they can find you so if they're 569 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,719 Speaker 1: interested in your offerings. Your workshops were recorded, you know, 570 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: meditation sessions. How how can our listeners find you? My 571 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: website is j A T. L u r I j 572 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 1: at luriy dot com and on there you'll see some 573 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: free video meditations that you can try. My episodes of 574 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: Responding to Life podcast are also on there, and you 575 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 1: can hear in further detail about my thirteen year journey 576 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 1: trying to create my family. And there are also a 577 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 1: bunch of articles on you know, apps that you can 578 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: use for meditation and different techniques that you can use 579 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: for breathing. And also on there you'll find a sign 580 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 1: up for a free meditation that I do every Wednesday 581 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: at one thirty pm PST. I'm doing it until the 582 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: end of August, so be sure to check that out 583 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: and it teaches you in just fifteen minutes a new 584 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: way for meditating, especially if you've never tried. So that's great. 585 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: And on Instagram you can find me at Josephine r 586 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: at luri wonderful. Well, thank you so much for joining 587 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: us as Josephine, we really appreciate it. Thank you so 588 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: much for having me. This is so much fun. Thank you. 589 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: Have a wonderful day. All right, well, we are back 590 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: with a question that's sort of about stress. I know 591 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: a lot of people are experiencing a lot of different 592 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: forms of stress over the past few months. This listener 593 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 1: writes how she can stay motivated at work during this time. 594 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: She's a senior director of marketing and she has three kids, nine, six, 595 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 1: and two. She's always been very ambitious, but has felt 596 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: unmotivated over the past couple of months as she's been 597 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 1: working from home since mid March. Like most people, she 598 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: says she's enjoying this time at home and the flexibility 599 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: she has and when she has meeting free time, which 600 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: is she's usually about four to six hours of meetings 601 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: a day, so the other maybe two to four hours 602 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: that she would have normally been working. She says, I 603 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: want to hang out with my kids, get stuff done 604 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 1: around the house, or something else I enjoy, like working out, 605 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: reading or going for a walk. I do not feel 606 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: like doing anything proactive for work during this time, such 607 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: as working ahead of O in projects or networking. I 608 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: keep going back and forth thinking maybe I should just 609 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: give myself a break. But you know that's is that 610 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 1: fine in a long career or what is this feeling? 611 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: This current state does last for a long time. She says, 612 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: I'm the main breadwinner, so i cannot lose my job. 613 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: I'm not worried about that currently, but what about in 614 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 1: six months? So do we have any tips on how 615 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:16,919 Speaker 1: to think about this challenge. I can't be the only 616 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: one feeling this way. What do you think, Sarah? Yeah, well, 617 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,800 Speaker 1: I mean my first instinct is you absolutely should be 618 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,759 Speaker 1: allowed to give yourself a break during this time. And 619 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 1: I'm sure you are not the only one giving yourself 620 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 1: a break during this time. You've also been at your company. 621 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 1: It sounds like, well, at least you've risen to a 622 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 1: pretty high position. So the idea that in six months 623 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 1: you're going to lose your job from not doing like 624 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: the extra stuff you used to do before seems unlikely 625 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,279 Speaker 1: to me. I mean, if you're even worried about that 626 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: at all, you could always check in with some you know, 627 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,479 Speaker 1: one of your superiors and just ask how they feel 628 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 1: like you're doing. And you may feel very much like, oh, 629 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: they feel like I'm doing great under the circumstances. And 630 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: I think personally that it's okay to, you know, do 631 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 1: a find job at your real job as long as 632 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 1: you're getting what's expected of you done and put your 633 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,359 Speaker 1: passion elsewhere, especially at this time, as long as you're 634 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:12,120 Speaker 1: meeting expectations. So maybe your passion projects will be job aligned, 635 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 1: Like maybe you'll decide, oh, I want to start like 636 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,360 Speaker 1: a women's online support group, or you know, I just 637 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: made that up, but like something sort of tangential to 638 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,919 Speaker 1: like your actual like making widgets part of your job. 639 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 1: Or maybe you will find some other passion project, like 640 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 1: you know, a podcast or a new hobby, or just 641 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,799 Speaker 1: becoming closer with your family. If that's how you want 642 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 1: to spend your time, that's okay too. So I I 643 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: just mostly want to give you a hug and say 644 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 1: I think you're probably doing Yeah. I think if she 645 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 1: also puts that energy into sort of other things for 646 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 1: six months, she may find herself quite renewed at the 647 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 1: end of it. I mean she's worried. She's saying, you know, 648 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:49,720 Speaker 1: I could do this for six months, but what happens 649 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: at the end of it. I don't think you're suddenly 650 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,399 Speaker 1: going to discover that you want to, you know, spend 651 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,400 Speaker 1: your life decorating your house like this is not You 652 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,360 Speaker 1: didn't become the director of marketing at a huge company 653 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 1: by feeling that way, and I don't think that's suddenly 654 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 1: going to come up for you. But you know, if 655 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:06,759 Speaker 1: you are feeling like there's a lot going on right now, 656 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 1: you just want to sort of let it go for 657 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: a little bit. You'll probably come back to your work 658 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: in six months with a fresh sense of ideas that 659 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,759 Speaker 1: have been honed as you've been you know, installing the 660 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 1: new paint job in your house and it'll feel great. 661 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,239 Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm not so worried about it either. We 662 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 1: all go through these dips and we come back. Sometimes 663 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 1: you just need to let go for a little bit 664 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,760 Speaker 1: and not worry about it, and then you find yourself 665 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 1: on fire afterwards. Well, this has been best of both worlds. 666 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 1: We've been talking about talking about dealing with stress and 667 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,879 Speaker 1: meditation and other such great topics. We'll be back next 668 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: week with more on making work and life fit together. 669 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the 670 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, 671 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: and you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. 672 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,240 Speaker 1: This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please 673 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 1: join us next time for more on making work and 674 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 1: life work together.