WEBVTT - Cultivating Cultural Intelligence

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well, it's

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<v Speaker 1>no secret that we live in a really polarized world.

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<v Speaker 1>I was reminded when I was doing research for our

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<v Speaker 1>next guests about a poll that I saw last month

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<v Speaker 1>from the Pew Research Center about how Republicans and Democrats

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<v Speaker 1>are increasingly critical of people in the opposing party. Here's

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<v Speaker 1>a headline from this. Majorities in both parties view members

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<v Speaker 1>of the other party as more immoral, dishonest, and closed

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<v Speaker 1>minded than other Americans. This according to the Pew Research Center.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a perfect time to bring up our next guest,

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<v Speaker 1>David Livermore, the founder of the Cultural Intelligence Center, also

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<v Speaker 1>the author of Digital Diverse and Divided, How to Talk

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<v Speaker 1>to Racists, Compete with Robots, and Overcome Polarization. He joins

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<v Speaker 1>us this afternoon via zoom from San Diego, so if

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<v Speaker 1>you're watching on YouTube, you'll see him right there. David,

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<v Speaker 1>how are you? I'm great? Thanks to hey. I want

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<v Speaker 1>to start with cultural intelligence, the concept of cultural intelligence,

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<v Speaker 1>because it's actually a scientific model for people like myself

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<v Speaker 1>who aren't familiar with it explain the concept and how

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<v Speaker 1>it can help us see people who have opposing views. Yeah. Thanks,

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<v Speaker 1>So you're certainly familiar, as are all your listeners with

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<v Speaker 1>i Q intelligence quotation. We all heard a lot about

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<v Speaker 1>that for many years, and most of us are pretty

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<v Speaker 1>familiar to with emotional intelligence, the scientific measurement of our

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<v Speaker 1>ability to manage and detect the emotions of ourselves and

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<v Speaker 1>others and really our working Cultural intelligence picks up right

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<v Speaker 1>where emotional intelligence leads off and allows us to have

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<v Speaker 1>that same kind of practical social interaction skill when we're

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<v Speaker 1>dealing with someone from a different background and UH, as

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<v Speaker 1>as you may know, UH, this typically has been applied globally.

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<v Speaker 1>How do I, as a North American interact with a

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<v Speaker 1>counterpart in Asia? But as you mentioned in your lead in, UH,

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<v Speaker 1>increasingly we're seeing that this is a skill that can

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<v Speaker 1>actually help us bridge the divides within the US. So

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<v Speaker 1>to that point, is cultural intelligence then just e Q

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<v Speaker 1>or what is the nuance there? Yeah? Thanks Katie. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>certainly there's a lot of correlation. We've looked at it

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<v Speaker 1>in the research. But emotional intelligence detects whether or not

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<v Speaker 1>you I'm sorry, predicts whether or not you can actually

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<v Speaker 1>interact with someone from a familiar cultural background. So we

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<v Speaker 1>read the emotional cues. Oh, the silent treatment that means this.

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<v Speaker 1>They're looking me in the eye, that means this. And

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<v Speaker 1>with cultural intelligence, it helps us understand that we may

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<v Speaker 1>be misreading cues if it's coming from someone who has

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<v Speaker 1>a different orientation. So certainly appropriate to see similarity, but

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<v Speaker 1>it it takes our emotional intelligence a step further when

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<v Speaker 1>we're viewing someone that we may perceive, as Tim just

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<v Speaker 1>mentioned as immoral and dishonest and says, hang on, wait

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<v Speaker 1>a second. Maybe I'm reading too much into the raised

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<v Speaker 1>voice or the silent treatment. It may mean something entirely different.

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<v Speaker 1>But maybe it's not just about the silent treatment or

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<v Speaker 1>the raised voice. Maybe it's about somebody's you know, fundamental

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<v Speaker 1>beliefs that you know, let's say that. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we live in a world that's more polarized than in

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<v Speaker 1>previous generations. I mean, this is no longer like Jimmy

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<v Speaker 1>Carter versus Ronald Reagan territory. Here, right, you have a

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<v Speaker 1>group of people who deny that the election was free

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<v Speaker 1>and fair, and you know, are are essentially willing, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>for lack of a better term to to die on

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<v Speaker 1>that hill? Does this method allow people who have views

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<v Speaker 1>that are that strong? Uh? Actually, you know, be able

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<v Speaker 1>to communicate and have real conversations with people who don't

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<v Speaker 1>necessarily believe that. That's my hope, and that's that's the

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<v Speaker 1>early findings that we're seeing from the research on it. So, um,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll be the first to say it's it's not a

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<v Speaker 1>silver bullet, is not a panacea. But as you know

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<v Speaker 1>far better than I living in the news industry, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>pick the week and we have a new divisive issue

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<v Speaker 1>and as you noted, we've we've gone from just having

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<v Speaker 1>disagreements about different ideas to now I can't even view

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<v Speaker 1>you as a fellow human being. So I think what

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<v Speaker 1>the cultural intelligence work does is similar to when I'm

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<v Speaker 1>working with my counterpart in Iraq or China. I have

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<v Speaker 1>to slow down first and say, okay, wait, but you're

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<v Speaker 1>my fellow human being? How do we start with that?

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<v Speaker 1>And cultural intelligence allows us to do something as simple

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<v Speaker 1>as when someone makes a claim about the election not

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<v Speaker 1>even being legitimate, to stop and say would you be

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<v Speaker 1>open to a different perspective on that? And if they aren't,

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<v Speaker 1>then yeah, there's probably no point in exercising anymore breath.

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<v Speaker 1>But I find typically people will at least give nodding

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<v Speaker 1>a cent. Okay, sure, give me your different perspective on it.

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm hopeful that it at least helps us to

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<v Speaker 1>to deescalate some of the hyper rhetoric and emotion to

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<v Speaker 1>actually find it. Maybe we have a little bit more

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<v Speaker 1>in common than we think we do. Fold this into

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<v Speaker 1>the hybrid environment that we live in right now, between

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<v Speaker 1>working remotely and interacting in person, it feels like it's

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<v Speaker 1>harder to read some one and exercise EQ over zoom

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<v Speaker 1>and we only have about forty five seconds and then

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<v Speaker 1>we'll be back. Yeah, so exactly. I think the digital

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<v Speaker 1>context further exacerbates this, and that's why emotional intelligence is

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<v Speaker 1>even harder to exercise when you're trying to read the

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<v Speaker 1>cues of someone just through a zoom call, especially if

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<v Speaker 1>it's a friend of color or a colleague of color

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<v Speaker 1>who has just heard about the George Floyd murder and

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<v Speaker 1>now they have to suddenly jump on a zoom call

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<v Speaker 1>and interact about next week's projects. So these things are

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<v Speaker 1>hard enough to do in person. But I think you're right, Katie,

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<v Speaker 1>that the hybrid environment amplifies the challenge. Well, sit tight, David,

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<v Speaker 1>because we're gonna do some news and then we're gonna

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<v Speaker 1>come back with more. David Livermore is the founder of

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<v Speaker 1>the Cultural Intelligence Center. He's also the author of the

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<v Speaker 1>new book I haven't in my hand right here, Digital

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<v Speaker 1>Diverse and Divided, How to talk to racists, Compete with Robots,

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<v Speaker 1>and Overcome Polarization. Really want to hit on the other

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<v Speaker 1>side here, political ramifications here, if politicians are going to

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<v Speaker 1>take any lessons from this and be less of ice.

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<v Speaker 1>And then also of course the um automation element here

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<v Speaker 1>and talking about the future and competing with those robots.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to get back to David Livermore. He's the

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<v Speaker 1>founder of the Cultural Intelligence Center, the author of the

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<v Speaker 1>new book Digital Diverse and Divided, How to Talk to Racists,

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<v Speaker 1>Compete with Robots, and Overcome Polarization. He spent a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of time consulting, traveling around the world. He's spoken to

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<v Speaker 1>executives at companies like Ali, Baba, BMW, Google and more

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<v Speaker 1>So he's got a really good idea of what the

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<v Speaker 1>modern workplace is missing and also what it's trying to

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<v Speaker 1>strive for and trying to achieve. David joins us this

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<v Speaker 1>afternoon and once again on the via zoom from San Diego. David,

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<v Speaker 1>That's where I really want to start, is is how

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<v Speaker 1>we apply these lessons professionally and we think about ourselves

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<v Speaker 1>in the workplace. Um, I don't want to get to

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<v Speaker 1>the automa automation yet and talk about robots yet, but

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<v Speaker 1>I want to talk about using these lessons to to

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<v Speaker 1>become you know, better employees, to become better at our jobs.

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<v Speaker 1>How can we do that? Yeah? Well, on the one hand,

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<v Speaker 1>and the workplace is where this becomes a really interesting

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<v Speaker 1>dynamic because it's perhaps the one place where we don't

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<v Speaker 1>have the option to run into our echo chambers and

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<v Speaker 1>just say that I'm going to do things my own

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<v Speaker 1>way and not interact with anyone who thinks differently than me.

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<v Speaker 1>And we see non examples from what groups like base

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<v Speaker 1>camp try a year or so ago when they forbid

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<v Speaker 1>any discussion of sensitive topics and didn't work. Real well, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>this is the Silicon Valley startup base Camp, you know

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<v Speaker 1>worker productivity software, right, And what wasn't like something like

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<v Speaker 1>thirty percent of their their workforce resigned immediately when they

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<v Speaker 1>told them you can't talk about sensitive topics at work.

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<v Speaker 1>So so somehow, you know, I think the organizations that

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<v Speaker 1>are doing this right are creating space for it, but

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<v Speaker 1>also not just sitting around and having conversations about, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the election or Black Lives Matter or reproductive rights or

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<v Speaker 1>whatever the topic tends to be that week, but instead saying, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>we're all oriented around some kind of similar goal that

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<v Speaker 1>we're trying to accomplish in the workplace, and then using

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<v Speaker 1>the first perspectives to actually better accomplish that goal. So

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's kind of this dynamic tension of allowing

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<v Speaker 1>space for some of the conversation to exist around some

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<v Speaker 1>of these potentially polarizing topics, but not getting stalled in

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<v Speaker 1>the gridlock and telling people you're going to have to

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<v Speaker 1>learn to work and adapt with other people who feel

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<v Speaker 1>differently than you so that we can meet the milestone

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<v Speaker 1>that we're all trying to accomplish. Do you have any

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<v Speaker 1>examples of corporations who are really nailing it when it

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<v Speaker 1>comes to using cultural intelligence and creating space for those

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<v Speaker 1>diverse perspectives. Yeah, great question, Katie. And of course with

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<v Speaker 1>the large fortune five hundred, it's always scary to to

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<v Speaker 1>share one because the minute I do know be a

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<v Speaker 1>non example come up in in the news, but but

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<v Speaker 1>a couple that come to mind. Uh So Tim mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>that we've done quite a bit with Google, and Google

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<v Speaker 1>was kind of leading the way, and this a number

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<v Speaker 1>of years ago, where you know, they've had their principle

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<v Speaker 1>where several people within Google are given their time to

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<v Speaker 1>innovate anywhere within the company. But when they actually got

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<v Speaker 1>engaged in recruiting people from the Asia Pacific market, they

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<v Speaker 1>would interview people and ask them, you know, if you

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<v Speaker 1>were hired, how would you use that. It's kind of like, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>whatever the boss told me to do. And to Google's credit,

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<v Speaker 1>they knew they were going to miss out on a

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<v Speaker 1>core part of their corporate DNA if they suddenly said, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll get rid of that principle here, but also knew

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<v Speaker 1>that they had to kind of adapt the way that

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<v Speaker 1>they were going to work with individuals who might be

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<v Speaker 1>more hierarchical or risk averse. So that may seem a

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<v Speaker 1>bit adrift from the question in terms of polarization, but

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<v Speaker 1>that I've watched them over the years. Then apply that

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<v Speaker 1>more broadly to then, how do we create space so

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<v Speaker 1>that our employee resource groups UM you know, these groups

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<v Speaker 1>that many organizations have that allow different groups from marginalized

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<v Speaker 1>groups to to find deffinity, to be more than just

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<v Speaker 1>a support group, but to actually be a source of

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<v Speaker 1>education of here's some of the things that you want

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<v Speaker 1>to understand about black people in tech, or about your

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<v Speaker 1>gate colleagues who are trying to find a way, even

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<v Speaker 1>if they're working in Silicon Valley in a very progressive

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<v Speaker 1>place socially, some things that they might be encountering that

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<v Speaker 1>you are. So that's that's one example that comes to mind. Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>David Um, you know, it's hard to quantify this stuff,

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<v Speaker 1>but in the wake of George Floyd's murder in we

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<v Speaker 1>had a lot of companies really look internally and say

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<v Speaker 1>they were going to make big changes, and just based

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<v Speaker 1>on your own travels and what you're talking to executives about,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, we don't hear that as much right now.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm wondering if you think that some of the changes,

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<v Speaker 1>if they and that they announced, are those actually sticking, Like,

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<v Speaker 1>are their cultural changes happening at these companies in the

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<v Speaker 1>US and around the globe. Yeah, you're gonna hate this answer,

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<v Speaker 1>but it depends right Like, what what company are we

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<v Speaker 1>talking about. So feel free to name names. Sorry you

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<v Speaker 1>feel free to name names, but well, I was gonna

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<v Speaker 1>say that there are many in the diversity space that

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<v Speaker 1>are very discouraged, saying it was all about optics they

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<v Speaker 1>put out their social media post and now it's On

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<v Speaker 1>the other hand, I'm sitting with some people in the

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<v Speaker 1>C suite who are like, God, no matter what I do,

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<v Speaker 1>it's never enough. And you know, far be it from

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<v Speaker 1>me to be the guy who's going to like defend

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<v Speaker 1>the well paid executives. But you know, sometimes I'm trying

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<v Speaker 1>to be a dissative voice with some of the diversity

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<v Speaker 1>space is saying, but do you understand what else is

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<v Speaker 1>on their plate, like that the potential lawsuit that they're

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<v Speaker 1>fighting off, or these supply chain issues of one of

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<v Speaker 1>your previous guests was just talking about. So I'm actually optimistic.

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<v Speaker 1>I think the conversation has moved forward. I think there's

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<v Speaker 1>some great strides that are being made. Yeah, some some

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<v Speaker 1>have dissipated and they've walked away from it. Um. Some

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<v Speaker 1>are very nervous that it's presented by the diversity experts

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<v Speaker 1>as a ongoing journey that's never done. Um. But I

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<v Speaker 1>think for the most part, it's here to stay. There

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<v Speaker 1>was a course correction that happened, and that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>particularly as we look at things like quiet quitting and

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<v Speaker 1>the great resignation that particularly millennials and gen z are saying,

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<v Speaker 1>if I have an option, I'm not going to work

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<v Speaker 1>for a company that's not committed to this. And David,

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<v Speaker 1>I want to go back to the title of your

0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:08.240
<v Speaker 1>book because the sort of first item in that list

0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:12.520
<v Speaker 1>there is how to talk to racists and how how

0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:17.840
<v Speaker 1>should one do that in a professional workplace. Yeah, well,

0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:20.719
<v Speaker 1>it's definitely not saying you're a racist, right, because I've

0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:23.400
<v Speaker 1>never seen that result in someone going, oh, you're right.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for pointing that out. And I should also qualify

0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:30.959
<v Speaker 1>that I'm not I'm not assuming anyone particular group. There

0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:33.160
<v Speaker 1>there's times I'm racist and I need to be called

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<v Speaker 1>out on it. So I would say for me, for

0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:39.920
<v Speaker 1>the most part, it's engaging in kind of a conversation,

0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:42.000
<v Speaker 1>kind of using something like that question I used before,

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<v Speaker 1>like would you be open to a different perspective on

0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.880
<v Speaker 1>what you just said? And specific example, I was just

0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:50.840
<v Speaker 1>recently talking to a professional colleague who was just informally

0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:52.840
<v Speaker 1>catching me up on some things and some people that

0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:56.640
<v Speaker 1>we both knew, and he made the comment, um, yeah,

0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:58.280
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if you heard that. So and so

0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:02.480
<v Speaker 1>just married a woman in South Africa. She's she's black,

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<v Speaker 1>but she's beautiful. And I'm like, oh, excuse me, she's black,

0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:11.079
<v Speaker 1>but she's beautiful. And we have enough personal relationship alongside

0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:14.520
<v Speaker 1>a professional one that after a moment, I just said, Hey,

0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:16.840
<v Speaker 1>can I just point out to you something that you

0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:19.839
<v Speaker 1>just said? And he responded, as many of us probably

0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:22.560
<v Speaker 1>what initially was very defensive, like, oh, what You're going

0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:24.560
<v Speaker 1>to use me as an example now in your next book?

0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:31.160
<v Speaker 1>Right said yes, no. But in an interview radio, yeah,

0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:33.880
<v Speaker 1>Hey David, Um we we unfortunately to leave it there.

0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:35.719
<v Speaker 1>We're out of time, but this has been a great conversation.

0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:37.839
<v Speaker 1>We really appreciate you taking so much time in joining

0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:41.080
<v Speaker 1>us this afternoon on Bloomberg Business Week. David Livermore is

0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:43.480
<v Speaker 1>the founder of the Cultural Intelligence Center. He consults with

0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:45.920
<v Speaker 1>companies around the world. He's also the author of the

0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:49.560
<v Speaker 1>new book Digital Diverse and Divided, How to talk to racists,

0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:53.240
<v Speaker 1>compete with robots, and overcome polarization. The book is out

0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:55.560
<v Speaker 1>now that is Gonna do It for Bloomberg Business Week.

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<v Speaker 1>A big thank you to Katie Grayfeld and the entire

0:13:57.240 --> 0:14:00.559
<v Speaker 1>crew here at Bloomberg Radio