Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well, it's
Speaker 1: no secret that we live in a really polarized world.
Speaker 1: I was reminded when I was doing research for our
Speaker 1: next guests about a poll that I saw last month
Speaker 1: from the Pew Research Center about how Republicans and Democrats
Speaker 1: are increasingly critical of people in the opposing party. Here's
Speaker 1: a headline from this. Majorities in both parties view members
Speaker 1: of the other party as more immoral, dishonest, and closed
Speaker 1: minded than other Americans. This according to the Pew Research Center.
Speaker 1: It's a perfect time to bring up our next guest,
Speaker 1: David Livermore, the founder of the Cultural Intelligence Center, also
Speaker 1: the author of Digital Diverse and Divided, How to Talk
Speaker 1: to Racists, Compete with Robots, and Overcome Polarization. He joins
Speaker 1: us this afternoon via zoom from San Diego, so if
Speaker 1: you're watching on YouTube, you'll see him right there. David,
Speaker 1: how are you? I'm great? Thanks to hey. I want
Speaker 1: to start with cultural intelligence, the concept of cultural intelligence,
Speaker 1: because it's actually a scientific model for people like myself
Speaker 1: who aren't familiar with it explain the concept and how
Speaker 1: it can help us see people who have opposing views. Yeah. Thanks,
Speaker 1: So you're certainly familiar, as are all your listeners with
Speaker 1: i Q intelligence quotation. We all heard a lot about
Speaker 1: that for many years, and most of us are pretty
Speaker 1: familiar to with emotional intelligence, the scientific measurement of our
Speaker 1: ability to manage and detect the emotions of ourselves and
Speaker 1: others and really our working Cultural intelligence picks up right
Speaker 1: where emotional intelligence leads off and allows us to have
Speaker 1: that same kind of practical social interaction skill when we're
Speaker 1: dealing with someone from a different background and UH, as
Speaker 1: as you may know, UH, this typically has been applied globally.
Speaker 1: How do I, as a North American interact with a
Speaker 1: counterpart in Asia? But as you mentioned in your lead in, UH,
Speaker 1: increasingly we're seeing that this is a skill that can
Speaker 1: actually help us bridge the divides within the US. So
Speaker 1: to that point, is cultural intelligence then just e Q
Speaker 1: or what is the nuance there? Yeah? Thanks Katie. Um,
Speaker 1: certainly there's a lot of correlation. We've looked at it
Speaker 1: in the research. But emotional intelligence detects whether or not
Speaker 1: you I'm sorry, predicts whether or not you can actually
Speaker 1: interact with someone from a familiar cultural background. So we
Speaker 1: read the emotional cues. Oh, the silent treatment that means this.
Speaker 1: They're looking me in the eye, that means this. And
Speaker 1: with cultural intelligence, it helps us understand that we may
Speaker 1: be misreading cues if it's coming from someone who has
Speaker 1: a different orientation. So certainly appropriate to see similarity, but
Speaker 1: it it takes our emotional intelligence a step further when
Speaker 1: we're viewing someone that we may perceive, as Tim just
Speaker 1: mentioned as immoral and dishonest and says, hang on, wait
Speaker 1: a second. Maybe I'm reading too much into the raised
Speaker 1: voice or the silent treatment. It may mean something entirely different.
Speaker 1: But maybe it's not just about the silent treatment or
Speaker 1: the raised voice. Maybe it's about somebody's you know, fundamental
Speaker 1: beliefs that you know, let's say that. And you know,
Speaker 1: we live in a world that's more polarized than in
Speaker 1: previous generations. I mean, this is no longer like Jimmy
Speaker 1: Carter versus Ronald Reagan territory. Here, right, you have a
Speaker 1: group of people who deny that the election was free
Speaker 1: and fair, and you know, are are essentially willing, you know,
Speaker 1: for lack of a better term to to die on
Speaker 1: that hill? Does this method allow people who have views
Speaker 1: that are that strong? Uh? Actually, you know, be able
Speaker 1: to communicate and have real conversations with people who don't
Speaker 1: necessarily believe that. That's my hope, and that's that's the
Speaker 1: early findings that we're seeing from the research on it. So, um,
Speaker 1: I'll be the first to say it's it's not a
Speaker 1: silver bullet, is not a panacea. But as you know
Speaker 1: far better than I living in the news industry, I mean,
Speaker 1: pick the week and we have a new divisive issue
Speaker 1: and as you noted, we've we've gone from just having
Speaker 1: disagreements about different ideas to now I can't even view
Speaker 1: you as a fellow human being. So I think what
Speaker 1: the cultural intelligence work does is similar to when I'm
Speaker 1: working with my counterpart in Iraq or China. I have
Speaker 1: to slow down first and say, okay, wait, but you're
Speaker 1: my fellow human being? How do we start with that?
Speaker 1: And cultural intelligence allows us to do something as simple
Speaker 1: as when someone makes a claim about the election not
Speaker 1: even being legitimate, to stop and say would you be
Speaker 1: open to a different perspective on that? And if they aren't,
Speaker 1: then yeah, there's probably no point in exercising anymore breath.
Speaker 1: But I find typically people will at least give nodding
Speaker 1: a cent. Okay, sure, give me your different perspective on it.
Speaker 1: So I'm hopeful that it at least helps us to
Speaker 1: to deescalate some of the hyper rhetoric and emotion to
Speaker 1: actually find it. Maybe we have a little bit more
Speaker 1: in common than we think we do. Fold this into
Speaker 1: the hybrid environment that we live in right now, between
Speaker 1: working remotely and interacting in person, it feels like it's
Speaker 1: harder to read some one and exercise EQ over zoom
Speaker 1: and we only have about forty five seconds and then
Speaker 1: we'll be back. Yeah, so exactly. I think the digital
Speaker 1: context further exacerbates this, and that's why emotional intelligence is
Speaker 1: even harder to exercise when you're trying to read the
Speaker 1: cues of someone just through a zoom call, especially if
Speaker 1: it's a friend of color or a colleague of color
Speaker 1: who has just heard about the George Floyd murder and
Speaker 1: now they have to suddenly jump on a zoom call
Speaker 1: and interact about next week's projects. So these things are
Speaker 1: hard enough to do in person. But I think you're right, Katie,
Speaker 1: that the hybrid environment amplifies the challenge. Well, sit tight, David,
Speaker 1: because we're gonna do some news and then we're gonna
Speaker 1: come back with more. David Livermore is the founder of
Speaker 1: the Cultural Intelligence Center. He's also the author of the
Speaker 1: new book I haven't in my hand right here, Digital
Speaker 1: Diverse and Divided, How to talk to racists, Compete with Robots,
Speaker 1: and Overcome Polarization. Really want to hit on the other
Speaker 1: side here, political ramifications here, if politicians are going to
Speaker 1: take any lessons from this and be less of ice.
Speaker 1: And then also of course the um automation element here
Speaker 1: and talking about the future and competing with those robots.
Speaker 1: I want to get back to David Livermore. He's the
Speaker 1: founder of the Cultural Intelligence Center, the author of the
Speaker 1: new book Digital Diverse and Divided, How to Talk to Racists,
Speaker 1: Compete with Robots, and Overcome Polarization. He spent a lot
Speaker 1: of time consulting, traveling around the world. He's spoken to
Speaker 1: executives at companies like Ali, Baba, BMW, Google and more
Speaker 1: So he's got a really good idea of what the
Speaker 1: modern workplace is missing and also what it's trying to
Speaker 1: strive for and trying to achieve. David joins us this
Speaker 1: afternoon and once again on the via zoom from San Diego. David,
Speaker 1: That's where I really want to start, is is how
Speaker 1: we apply these lessons professionally and we think about ourselves
Speaker 1: in the workplace. Um, I don't want to get to
Speaker 1: the automa automation yet and talk about robots yet, but
Speaker 1: I want to talk about using these lessons to to
Speaker 1: become you know, better employees, to become better at our jobs.
Speaker 1: How can we do that? Yeah? Well, on the one hand,
Speaker 1: and the workplace is where this becomes a really interesting
Speaker 1: dynamic because it's perhaps the one place where we don't
Speaker 1: have the option to run into our echo chambers and
Speaker 1: just say that I'm going to do things my own
Speaker 1: way and not interact with anyone who thinks differently than me.
Speaker 1: And we see non examples from what groups like base
Speaker 1: camp try a year or so ago when they forbid
Speaker 1: any discussion of sensitive topics and didn't work. Real well, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is the Silicon Valley startup base Camp, you know
Speaker 1: worker productivity software, right, And what wasn't like something like
Speaker 1: thirty percent of their their workforce resigned immediately when they
Speaker 1: told them you can't talk about sensitive topics at work.
Speaker 1: So so somehow, you know, I think the organizations that
Speaker 1: are doing this right are creating space for it, but
Speaker 1: also not just sitting around and having conversations about, you know,
Speaker 1: the election or Black Lives Matter or reproductive rights or
Speaker 1: whatever the topic tends to be that week, but instead saying, hey,
Speaker 1: we're all oriented around some kind of similar goal that
Speaker 1: we're trying to accomplish in the workplace, and then using
Speaker 1: the first perspectives to actually better accomplish that goal. So
Speaker 1: I think it's kind of this dynamic tension of allowing
Speaker 1: space for some of the conversation to exist around some
Speaker 1: of these potentially polarizing topics, but not getting stalled in
Speaker 1: the gridlock and telling people you're going to have to
Speaker 1: learn to work and adapt with other people who feel
Speaker 1: differently than you so that we can meet the milestone
Speaker 1: that we're all trying to accomplish. Do you have any
Speaker 1: examples of corporations who are really nailing it when it
Speaker 1: comes to using cultural intelligence and creating space for those
Speaker 1: diverse perspectives. Yeah, great question, Katie. And of course with
Speaker 1: the large fortune five hundred, it's always scary to to
Speaker 1: share one because the minute I do know be a
Speaker 1: non example come up in in the news, but but
Speaker 1: a couple that come to mind. Uh So Tim mentioned
Speaker 1: that we've done quite a bit with Google, and Google
Speaker 1: was kind of leading the way, and this a number
Speaker 1: of years ago, where you know, they've had their principle
Speaker 1: where several people within Google are given their time to
Speaker 1: innovate anywhere within the company. But when they actually got
Speaker 1: engaged in recruiting people from the Asia Pacific market, they
Speaker 1: would interview people and ask them, you know, if you
Speaker 1: were hired, how would you use that. It's kind of like, uh,
Speaker 1: whatever the boss told me to do. And to Google's credit,
Speaker 1: they knew they were going to miss out on a
Speaker 1: core part of their corporate DNA if they suddenly said, okay,
Speaker 1: we'll get rid of that principle here, but also knew
Speaker 1: that they had to kind of adapt the way that
Speaker 1: they were going to work with individuals who might be
Speaker 1: more hierarchical or risk averse. So that may seem a
Speaker 1: bit adrift from the question in terms of polarization, but
Speaker 1: that I've watched them over the years. Then apply that
Speaker 1: more broadly to then, how do we create space so
Speaker 1: that our employee resource groups UM you know, these groups
Speaker 1: that many organizations have that allow different groups from marginalized
Speaker 1: groups to to find deffinity, to be more than just
Speaker 1: a support group, but to actually be a source of
Speaker 1: education of here's some of the things that you want
Speaker 1: to understand about black people in tech, or about your
Speaker 1: gate colleagues who are trying to find a way, even
Speaker 1: if they're working in Silicon Valley in a very progressive
Speaker 1: place socially, some things that they might be encountering that
Speaker 1: you are. So that's that's one example that comes to mind. Hey,
Speaker 1: David Um, you know, it's hard to quantify this stuff,
Speaker 1: but in the wake of George Floyd's murder in we
Speaker 1: had a lot of companies really look internally and say
Speaker 1: they were going to make big changes, and just based
Speaker 1: on your own travels and what you're talking to executives about,
Speaker 1: you know, we don't hear that as much right now.
Speaker 1: And I'm wondering if you think that some of the changes,
Speaker 1: if they and that they announced, are those actually sticking, Like,
Speaker 1: are their cultural changes happening at these companies in the
Speaker 1: US and around the globe. Yeah, you're gonna hate this answer,
Speaker 1: but it depends right Like, what what company are we
Speaker 1: talking about. So feel free to name names. Sorry you
Speaker 1: feel free to name names, but well, I was gonna
Speaker 1: say that there are many in the diversity space that
Speaker 1: are very discouraged, saying it was all about optics they
Speaker 1: put out their social media post and now it's On
Speaker 1: the other hand, I'm sitting with some people in the
Speaker 1: C suite who are like, God, no matter what I do,
Speaker 1: it's never enough. And you know, far be it from
Speaker 1: me to be the guy who's going to like defend
Speaker 1: the well paid executives. But you know, sometimes I'm trying
Speaker 1: to be a dissative voice with some of the diversity
Speaker 1: space is saying, but do you understand what else is
Speaker 1: on their plate, like that the potential lawsuit that they're
Speaker 1: fighting off, or these supply chain issues of one of
Speaker 1: your previous guests was just talking about. So I'm actually optimistic.
Speaker 1: I think the conversation has moved forward. I think there's
Speaker 1: some great strides that are being made. Yeah, some some
Speaker 1: have dissipated and they've walked away from it. Um. Some
Speaker 1: are very nervous that it's presented by the diversity experts
Speaker 1: as a ongoing journey that's never done. Um. But I
Speaker 1: think for the most part, it's here to stay. There
Speaker 1: was a course correction that happened, and that you know,
Speaker 1: particularly as we look at things like quiet quitting and
Speaker 1: the great resignation that particularly millennials and gen z are saying,
Speaker 1: if I have an option, I'm not going to work
Speaker 1: for a company that's not committed to this. And David,
Speaker 1: I want to go back to the title of your
Speaker 1: book because the sort of first item in that list
Speaker 1: there is how to talk to racists and how how
Speaker 1: should one do that in a professional workplace. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: it's definitely not saying you're a racist, right, because I've
Speaker 1: never seen that result in someone going, oh, you're right.
Speaker 1: Thanks for pointing that out. And I should also qualify
Speaker 1: that I'm not I'm not assuming anyone particular group. There
Speaker 1: there's times I'm racist and I need to be called
Speaker 1: out on it. So I would say for me, for
Speaker 1: the most part, it's engaging in kind of a conversation,
Speaker 1: kind of using something like that question I used before,
Speaker 1: like would you be open to a different perspective on
Speaker 1: what you just said? And specific example, I was just
Speaker 1: recently talking to a professional colleague who was just informally
Speaker 1: catching me up on some things and some people that
Speaker 1: we both knew, and he made the comment, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you heard that. So and so
Speaker 1: just married a woman in South Africa. She's she's black,
Speaker 1: but she's beautiful. And I'm like, oh, excuse me, she's black,
Speaker 1: but she's beautiful. And we have enough personal relationship alongside
Speaker 1: a professional one that after a moment, I just said, Hey,
Speaker 1: can I just point out to you something that you
Speaker 1: just said? And he responded, as many of us probably
Speaker 1: what initially was very defensive, like, oh, what You're going
Speaker 1: to use me as an example now in your next book?
Speaker 1: Right said yes, no. But in an interview radio, yeah,
Speaker 1: Hey David, Um we we unfortunately to leave it there.
Speaker 1: We're out of time, but this has been a great conversation.
Speaker 1: We really appreciate you taking so much time in joining
Speaker 1: us this afternoon on Bloomberg Business Week. David Livermore is
Speaker 1: the founder of the Cultural Intelligence Center. He consults with
Speaker 1: companies around the world. He's also the author of the
Speaker 1: new book Digital Diverse and Divided, How to talk to racists,
Speaker 1: compete with robots, and overcome polarization. The book is out
Speaker 1: now that is Gonna do It for Bloomberg Business Week.
Speaker 1: A big thank you to Katie Grayfeld and the entire
Speaker 1: crew here at Bloomberg Radio