1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: Kay, Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a 2 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 1: weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the 3 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: small decisions we can make to become the best possible 4 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford, 5 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or 6 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website 7 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope 8 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it 9 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 1: is not meant to be a substitute for relationship with 10 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much 11 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: for joining me for Session to to seven of the 12 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: Therapy for Let Girls Podcast. We'll get right into the 13 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: episode after a word from our sponsors. We've talked here 14 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: before about the importance of having our identities affirmed and 15 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 1: celebrated in all the ways that looks, and joining us 16 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: today to discuss what that might look like as an 17 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: Afro Latino woman is Dr Louisa Bona Facio. Dr Bona 18 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: Facio is a licensed psychologist in New York with extensive 19 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: experience working within city hospitals, community mental health centers, and 20 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: the Veterans Affairs Medical Center. She enjoys working with clients 21 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: working through trauma, racial cultural, gender identity and it's impact 22 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: in our daily lives, challenging family dynamics, imposter syndrome, and codependency. 23 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: She's a graduate of Teachers College, Columbia University and has 24 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: previously held teaching positions at John Jay College of Criminal 25 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: Justice and Teachers College, Columbia University. Currently, she enjoys working 26 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: with clients in her private practice in Brooklyn, New York. 27 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 1: Dr Bona Facio and I chatted about where to get 28 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: started and exploring your Afro Latina identity, some of the 29 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: challenges related to colorism that arise particularly between generations of 30 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: Afro Latino women, media depictions of the community, and she 31 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 1: shares some of her favorite resources for finding community. If 32 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: there's anything that resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, 33 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: please share with us on social media using the hashtag 34 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: tv G in Session. Here's our conversation. Thank you so 35 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: much for joining us today, Dr Bona Fio, thanks for 36 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: having me. It's excited. Yeah, I'm very excited to chat 37 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: with you. So I wonder if you could just start 38 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: by telling us what do we mean when we're talking 39 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: about people who identify as Afro Latina. To me, the 40 00:02:55,919 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 1: identity is really based in the awareness that your heritage 41 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: is based in the crossing of the two worlds, the 42 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: black identity and the Latina identity. And to me, that's 43 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: whether you grew up in a country that's Latin or 44 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 1: Spanish speaking really is irrelevant more about do you identify 45 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: and are you aware that somewhere along the line there's 46 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: blackness in your lineage and your family history, and so 47 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 1: there's an awareness there and that's part of your history Dominican. 48 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: And I think a big part of like Dominican culture 49 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: is to deny the blackness of it, at least in 50 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: the way I grew up. To many extents now, I 51 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: think there's huge political and social structures in place to 52 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: keep Dominican folks from knowing their black history. And I 53 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: think that's a very common experience across many Latin American countries. 54 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: For me, the Afro Latino identity is like this awareness 55 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: that there's no like purity in that right, Like it's 56 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: all a big mixed mass, and a big part of 57 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: that was the slight trade and also the backroom general 58 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: folks who were already on the islands in those countries, 59 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 1: and so just having an awareness of that identity, you 60 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: know that heritage is really important. So to me, that's 61 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: how I think of it. M hmmm, yeah. And it 62 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: feels like my short answer guests as to like why 63 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: that has been denied is like white supremacy, right, and 64 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: like trying to make anything closer to whiteness the right answer. 65 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: But I wonder what that is like, because it definitely 66 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 1: seems like more people are talking about being Afro Latina now. 67 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: It sounds like even from your personal experience, it is 68 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 1: not something that maybe is talked about a lot, and 69 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 1: like the information is passed down from generation to generation. 70 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: So what are you seeing now? And people who maybe 71 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: are talking more about the Afro Latina experience, are there 72 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: some struggles related to not knowing that piece of the 73 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: history and like would it mean to like now had 74 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 1: that awareness and want to embrace it. Coming to that 75 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: awareness is not without a large amount of inner conflicts 76 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: and the turmoil I think because you grow up in 77 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: family sometimes actively denying that identity, your black history. I 78 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 1: wasn't born here, so when I came to the state, 79 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: it was really my first confrontation with identity, and so 80 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: you know, I came to be very confused and conflicted 81 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: about where did I fit in. I think presentation wise, 82 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 1: people can look at me and say, oh, she's miss 83 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: I heard that growing up a lot, and so I 84 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 1: didn't really understand what that was. And so I think 85 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: right now, because the history of America is very much 86 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 1: this consciousness around race, you can't help but like be 87 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: after Latina and like not be confronted by it, and 88 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: so like you have to kind of deal with it. 89 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: And I think part of that is really navigating being 90 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: what you've been told about who you are and like 91 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 1: actually what it's like to hold those identities. In this country, 92 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: particularly last year with a lot of the protesting and 93 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: the George Floyd, it forced folks to really confront who 94 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: they have come to believe they are. As much as 95 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: I think you can try and kind of avoid and 96 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: say no, I'm not black, I'm Dominican. That's a really 97 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: big thing. It's sort of like, well, no, like you can't, 98 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: you can't do that, Like that's not how this works. 99 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 1: To answer your question, it's not without a lot of 100 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: internal conflicts that come to that identity. Yeah, so the 101 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,799 Speaker 1: comments you just made, like I'm not black, I'm Dominican. 102 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: What do you think, like if we peel back the 103 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: layers behind that, like what's typically underneath that for people? 104 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: I think it's word supremacy. I think for Latino folks, 105 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: using the Latino identity sometimes can be like a distancing 106 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 1: from blackness, right, because we've been told that blackness is 107 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: similar to the things that folks grow up within the States, 108 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: like black is not great, fixt your hair. Coming to 109 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: terms with what we've been told about blackness is all 110 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: b s. It takes really confronting them, like your identity 111 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: right in the fabric of Latino countries is white supremacy 112 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: and internalized racism basically, And so a lot of that is, like, 113 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: you know, you have to confront like what we've been 114 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: told about our identities and who we are. There's nothing 115 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: wrong with having pride in your nationality, right, and so 116 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: I wonder if you can talk about or give some 117 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: suggestions for how people can kind of maintain that pride 118 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: but also explore what it means to be black. In 119 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: addition to this, I think that there's room for both 120 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: for us to celebrate our culture, our language, our food, 121 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: our music, and also I think make room for all 122 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: the things that we haven't been taught to celebrate. Right, Like, 123 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: there's a lot of ancestral practices in terms of spirituality 124 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: have been stripped away from land X folks, and so 125 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: exploring that, right like, that's how our ancestors were denied 126 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: their identity to connect to their blackness, to their connection 127 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: to Africa, and so kind of making room for that too. 128 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: Write this really great woman, this dominic women who started 129 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: this like hair salam for curly hair people in d 130 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: R and now in New York. Is an example of 131 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: celebrating that we have this like amazing multifaceted hair. And 132 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: you know what, I think a lot of Dominican identity, 133 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: Latin identity is to try and like really tame down 134 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: and processed and like fit into this idea of the 135 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 1: whiteness of what's accepted in identity. And so celebrating all that, 136 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: celebrating just practices that I think historically in our families 137 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: weren't labeled this is from our black heritage, and so 138 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: connecting those two is really important. And really being curious 139 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: and like being willing to have conversations. I think that's 140 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: another thing that gets lost is having conversations without our 141 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: families about oh, how come we do that? How come 142 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: you know, like we say this, you know, this saying 143 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: or this prayer. I grew up with an aunt who 144 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: was very much into and that's like an African kind 145 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: of way of practicing spirituality, and I just thought of 146 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,199 Speaker 1: it as like that's her thing, but that that was 147 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: her kind of practicing, like you know, ancestral ways of 148 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,719 Speaker 1: healing and ways of praying. That in our family we 149 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 1: never really discussed, We never labeled like that. We just 150 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: saw her as like she's just being weird. Yeah, And 151 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: I think, you know, if I think about like just 152 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: conversations intergenerationally for black women, I would imagine that they 153 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: are the same kinds of conversations with a different flavor 154 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: right in Latina communities. And I'm wondering, like you've already 155 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: talked about like how your aunt practice you know, this 156 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: particular piece of spirituality, and like what some of those conversations, 157 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 1: like do you see a lot of tension between like 158 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: granddaughters and their grandmother's about maybe the grandmother does not 159 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 1: identify as Afro Latina, but the granddaughter does, right, And 160 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: so what are some of the things that come up 161 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 1: in like some of those intergenerational conversations. Yeah, for sure, 162 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: that's very much in the reality. I think for now, 163 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: the Latin next generation who's like coming into more awareness 164 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: and more empowerment with other blackness, is really confronting and 165 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: sitting with the family conflict that comes about when you 166 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:30,079 Speaker 1: own that identity. I have two small children. They're very 167 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: black and have hair that is just beautiful and curly, 168 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: and so a lot of it has been around like 169 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: being mindful of the language that my family uses around 170 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: hair around them, and so really saying like, there is beautiful, 171 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: tell them that it's beautiful and how amazing it is. 172 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: That's something that now is very present, and so it 173 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: can lead to conflict. It can lead to distancing. You 174 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: can lead to a lot of feeling like you don't belong. 175 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: And so what you think is family, what you think 176 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: is being proud of your Latino experience. Now it's like, 177 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: wait a minute, you've been impressing me and confusing me 178 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: all these years, and so it can be pretty sad, 179 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,959 Speaker 1: I think, and confrontational of like what you think, what 180 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 1: you come to believe family is where you come to 181 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: believe what your role and your identity is. But those 182 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 1: conversations kind of need to happen, and particularly thing around 183 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: for me anyway, like around children, it's like, well, no, 184 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: we're not going to do that. You know. Colorism is 185 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: a huge thing too, and so policing that and comments 186 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: about being too dark and talking to my grandmother about that. 187 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: I think at this point I kind of have to 188 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: enter it knowing you know, she's like about to be 189 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: her nineties. Like I still have a conversations, I still 190 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: say my truth. But it's a very delicate dance, I 191 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: think because for a lot of us, family is so important. 192 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: It's like such a huge part of the Latino experiences 193 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: having strong family connections, and so it's a complicated one 194 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: and I don't have a good answer for it, but 195 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: I know that it's one that is not without a 196 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: lot of tension and questioning. M Yeah, And I know 197 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: that you have worked with clients from lots of different ages, 198 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: and a lot of your research has been on Latina 199 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: college students, and I'm wondering, like, in the work that 200 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: you've seen, we know how important identity is to mental 201 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: health and how some of those identity challenges can impact 202 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: our mental health. Can you talk a little bit about 203 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: what kinds of things have come up in your work 204 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,679 Speaker 1: as it relates to your identity and mental health. Yeah, 205 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: for sure. Part of my initial research and identity and 206 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: mental health was around the messaging that particularly Latin us 207 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 1: get in college around making career choices. And so what 208 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:54,559 Speaker 1: messages are we getting that either help us feel confident 209 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:59,119 Speaker 1: in the choices you're making or not confident in questioning? 210 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: And so we found not surprising. And I think this 211 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: extense to anyone marginalized is you know, when you're in college, 212 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: and depends on the college setting, but when you're college 213 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: messaging around well you show you want to do that, 214 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: or you don't look like you're going to be good 215 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,839 Speaker 1: at math or things like that, like things like oh 216 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,719 Speaker 1: you you speak really good English for latinow things that 217 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: internally tell us you don't belong, you don't fit in, 218 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: are you really smart enough? And so what that does 219 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:35,679 Speaker 1: is gets you questioning and gets you readjusting and changing 220 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: your belief system around what you can accomplish and what 221 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: options are available to you. And like, I think this 222 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: applies to not just the Latin identity, but folks on 223 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: the margins of people of color, LGBTQ folks you get 224 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: these like microaggressions. These messages basically meant to make you 225 00:13:55,679 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: question your inherent talents, your skills, your capability. And it's 226 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: a sort of a way of gate keeping and limiting 227 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,599 Speaker 1: folks to pursue things that would be fruitful and productive 228 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: and it would be amazing. And so I think the 229 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: focus on identity is so important, at least for me 230 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: the way I see it, the reason why I even 231 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: came into this field was because I can't tease apart 232 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: your mental health from your identity. Like to me, there entwined, 233 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: like the way you show up in the world, the 234 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: way you're treated in the world, the way people see you, 235 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: you've been told about who you are. All of that 236 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: affects every single thing. It affects the way your kindergaran 237 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: teeder talks to you. It affects the friends you make, 238 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: It effects the relationships you make. To me, identity is 239 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: everywhere and it affects everything. Yeah. More from my conversation 240 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: with Dr Boni Facio after the break, can you talked 241 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: a little bit of Dr Bonifacio about like your experience 242 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: as an effort letty a woman in like how you 243 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: have shaped your practice around that and how it impacts 244 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: the work that you do with your clients. Yeah, grad 245 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: school was kind of like the awakening moment for me. 246 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: I came into this field, I think wanting that moment 247 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: and wanting to first work within my community. I grew 248 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: up in Brooklyn. I grew up in really just diverse 249 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: and very nurturing kind of communities, and so I needed 250 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: to be a part of it. And this happened to 251 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: be the avenue that helped me get back in this way. 252 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: And I think grad school was one of those moments 253 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: for me, one being like the only black woman for 254 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: a big school like in New York, and so it 255 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: ended up kind of being one of those like, Okay, 256 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: I need to really know who I am because if 257 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: I don't, this place is gonna eat me up. Being 258 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: honest about my experiences was important for me, letting my 259 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: professors know, like, this is challenging. I don't when I 260 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: didn't have support letting people know, and so really creating 261 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: community was important for me, Like coming to terms with 262 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: like how I define my identity was really important and 263 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: it just so happened. My particular program was all about 264 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: we're going to teach you about identity and we're gonna 265 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: make sure you have the language for and that there's 266 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: a foundation around how you come to label yourself and 267 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: how to do this work with others so that there 268 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: isn't like a further marginalization of the folks, so that 269 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: there's an invitation. Okay, let's do this work together, Like 270 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: let's explore your racial identity, your gender identity, your sexual 271 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: orientation and how does that feel and what does that mean? 272 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: And how have the communities that you're entreated you because 273 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: of these identities. It was sort of like this parallel 274 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: process where I'm doing this work from grad school, but 275 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: then it's like my life too. Right then it's like 276 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: I need to evaluate my relationships and I need to 277 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: reevaluate like the your choices I made, And it was 278 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: a huge shift in like my reality and the way 279 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 1: I spoke about myself and the way that I spoke 280 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 1: about my communities that I think now allows me to 281 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: help folks find that language and feel empowered in their language, 282 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 1: feel empowered in their identities in their communities that I 283 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,959 Speaker 1: didn't have before that I'm super grateful for and now 284 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 1: in my practice, what that looks like is helping folks 285 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 1: along that process a big part I think two of 286 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: my career journey has been figuring out who I am 287 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 1: in big settings, right like who I am is an 288 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: Afro Latina in in a hospital I was to be 289 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 1: a teacher in a school, and figuring out how those 290 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: systems really affected me and how those systems really are 291 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: forgiving for folks who are on the margins. And so 292 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 1: a lot of my work now is there's a lot 293 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 1: of support and a lot of making room and space 294 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: for folks in corporate America, out in big law, out 295 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: working for these big tech companies that are really trying 296 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: to find their voice and feel empowered in their and 297 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: their experiences. All that to say, it was sort of 298 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:17,439 Speaker 1: like this awakening parallel process moment where as you know, 299 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,400 Speaker 1: um entering the field, I'm also kind of like doing 300 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: a lot of inner work. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it sounds 301 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: like it. It sounds like it. I love the way 302 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: that you've talked about like doing your own identity work 303 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: while your program was teaching you like how to do 304 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: that and facilitate that for others. And I'm wondering what 305 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: that looks like in your practice. Like you've already talked 306 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 1: about some of the colorism and texturism issues that come up. 307 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:45,919 Speaker 1: I wonder how you facilitate those kinds of conversations, are 308 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: unpacking those conversations for people who come to you with 309 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: those kinds of concerns, And what might you be able 310 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:53,399 Speaker 1: to share with our community about how they might be 311 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:55,640 Speaker 1: able to unpack some of those issues really to maybe 312 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: something like colorism and texturism. Yeah, for sure. I think 313 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: part of doing this work, genuinely and honestly is just 314 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: owning my identities to and making that president in the 315 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 1: room and having that be a dialogue with whoever I'm 316 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:12,919 Speaker 1: working with, Like, what's it like to talk to me? 317 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 1: Particularly when I'm working with other black women and there's 318 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: for short differences in the way that we present, right, 319 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: So I know I'm fairly light skinned, and so working 320 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: with folks who maybe darker. Okay, what's it like to 321 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: talk to me about it? Are you worried about what 322 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: I might think? Like? How are you thinking I'm receiving it? 323 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 1: Kind of making it present in the relationship, because I 324 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: think part of the colorism conversation, what makes it really 325 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: challenging is when it isn't talked about, when it isn't 326 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: made present, it doesn't serve the conversation or progress, and 327 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:48,360 Speaker 1: so part of it is in the moment and they here, Now, 328 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,199 Speaker 1: what's it like making it very present and getting my 329 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: clients to kind of talk about what experiences they've had 330 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: with colorism and touchruism and how has that kind of 331 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: effect it their journey and their identity. And for me 332 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: owning like I'm here going on a journey with you, 333 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 1: and so my experience is not going to be your experience. 334 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: My job is to kind of like help me understand 335 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:17,400 Speaker 1: your experience. I think owning my limits, owning what I 336 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: know and don't know, and kind of doing this work 337 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: collaboratively is important. Yeah, it's being super curious, Like it's 338 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 1: important for me to know like what language clients are 339 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: using to describe themselves and their communities, where they feel 340 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: they belong, where they feel they don't belong, What messages 341 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: have they been given about who they are and how 342 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: they present and how they've been made to feel other? Right, 343 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: and so the way I've been made to feel other 344 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,199 Speaker 1: it is going to be different from other folks. And 345 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: so holding space and making room for all of those 346 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: versions is important for me in my work. But yeah, 347 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 1: it's a collect abortive conversation that is ongoing and part 348 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: of all the work that we do. Yeah. So we've 349 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 1: talked a lot about identity, and we know that much 350 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: of our identity is informed by media representations, right, and 351 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: so I'd love to hear your input about you know, 352 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: like media representations of effort Latina women especially and ones 353 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,640 Speaker 1: that you feel like have like been done really will 354 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: and how that does impact our mobility to like figure 355 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 1: out who we are. Yeah. Oh boy. I think one 356 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: of the first latinos I saw on TV was a 357 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: detective on twenty one Jump Street, which I don't know 358 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,679 Speaker 1: if that was like a national show, but it was 359 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: about these three detectives in New York. Oh, Malik Yoga, 360 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: wasn't it? Or yes, yes, yes, Torris No, Torrias was 361 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: the guy, rightnect was a woman. It was been on 362 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 1: there and I was like, wait a minute, she has 363 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: an accent, her skin tone, her hair. To me, I 364 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 1: think as a young kid, I was like, oh, she 365 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: looks like one of my thea's, like one of my aunts. 366 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: Like so that was like a mark moment for me 367 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 1: where I saw that. To be honest, there haven't been 368 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: that many that I felt like that connected to that 369 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: I felt represented my experience. There was also the show Scrubs. 370 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: The nurse on there, I forget her name, but she 371 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: was a Latina, and I remember feeling like, oh my gosh, 372 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: she sounds like the women I grew up with. She 373 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:42,120 Speaker 1: sounds like my cousins. So that was one I think 374 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: When Orange is the New Black came out, there were 375 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 1: quite a few characters on that show that I felt 376 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: like were authentic, were very real. And then of course 377 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,479 Speaker 1: now I think is someone I think very much in 378 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 1: the reality and in the social media space and to 379 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,479 Speaker 1: space that I think I think she does a good 380 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:09,439 Speaker 1: job representing after Latini that very authentic, Like there's a 381 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: confidence I think about her owning her identity that is refreshing. Sure, 382 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: and Cardi b I mean, she's out there, she throws 383 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: us English out there sometimes and she does her thing. Yeah, 384 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: But I think sometimes what I listen for and look 385 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: for in after Latina's out in the space is that 386 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,959 Speaker 1: confidence I think that a mata has. But also like 387 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,239 Speaker 1: the owning I think, particularly with colorism, the owning of 388 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: it that is missing a lot that is disappointing, honestly, 389 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: and so I wish there was more of a conversation 390 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:54,439 Speaker 1: around that, around being in this space, but also like 391 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,679 Speaker 1: knowing that our experience is a little bit different and 392 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: we have access are a different perception of us than 393 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 1: our dark skin sisters, and so yeah, some sometimes it's 394 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: a little disappointing. M hmmm, Yeah, I mean it sounds 395 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,199 Speaker 1: like that was a part of like some of the 396 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: disappointment around In the Heights, right that you know, like 397 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: the film didn't necessarily represent like the community that it 398 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 1: was designed to be about. Yeah, yeah, sure, In the 399 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: Heights was one of those experiences. Was like, oh, it 400 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: was great artistically, but there's like a disappointing or longiness 401 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: for it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, there's a need, I think 402 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: arrange of experiences that it's just not happening, and I 403 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: would think by now, it's come on, y'all, like come on, 404 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: like yeah, and I wonder have you seen anything on 405 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,120 Speaker 1: like smaller scales, Like I feel like probably and I don't, 406 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: like I'm not in the TikTok streets enough to know, 407 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: but I feel like TikTok is a place where like 408 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: and Z and younger generations of like Afro Latinas are 409 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,120 Speaker 1: probably creating community and like being that thing for one 410 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 1: another that they don't maybe see like in greater media representations. Yeah, 411 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 1: I just you know, you mentioned TikTok. I'm not in 412 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: these TikTok streets are Julia And I think she came 413 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: from YouTube shorts, like short videos. She is one that 414 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: I think is she has that voice that's very clear 415 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: and confidence and very pro black and like nose she's black. 416 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 1: That's another thing too. I think it's there's a difference 417 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: between after latinos now who are in this space, who 418 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: are are there and um like hold like physically the identity, 419 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,679 Speaker 1: but then don't say it right then They're not like, yeah, 420 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: you know, I'm after Latina. This is why I am. 421 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: I think there's sometimes there's a hesitation to to like 422 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,680 Speaker 1: come out and like label it that like you're still 423 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: kind of playing the white supremacy thing. And so I just, 424 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: you know, I think that sometimes happens out there in 425 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: these social media TV streets. But I know that she's 426 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,959 Speaker 1: she's very vocal. She is getting a lot of Netflix stuff, 427 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 1: and she's on Instagram. There are a couple of others, 428 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: but their names aren't coming to me right away. But yeah, 429 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 1: I think now because there is a lot of language 430 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: for and there's just generally like there's a desire and 431 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: also like an impatience too. In the younger generations are 432 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:43,120 Speaker 1: like enough, like enough long enough, Like I am tired, 433 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 1: this is who I am. I'm gonna find my people, 434 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 1: And uh, it's so great to see when I do 435 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: see it, and I'm excited. I'm excited for younger folks 436 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 1: to come and like, you know, break it down. M 437 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: more from my conversation with Dr Bonafice, see you after 438 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: the break. So what might that journey look like? Like, 439 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 1: let's say somebody finds our conversation a very young person, 440 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: let's say a sixteen or seventeen year old, and they're 441 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 1: listening to you and they're like, oh my gosh, is 442 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: this something that I have not been told about? Right? 443 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: What kinds of things might they want to explore? What 444 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: kinds of questions might they want to ask? Maybe parents, grandparents, 445 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,400 Speaker 1: Like how do you get started with like figuring out 446 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,199 Speaker 1: this identity journey? And what might that look like with 447 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 1: the support of a therapist. Oh, yeah, that's such a 448 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 1: good question. I think they extend to which you feel 449 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 1: you have access to family, like oral history, to get 450 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 1: super curious and to get super in people's faces. Okay, 451 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 1: so you know where were you born and where did 452 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: grandpa come from? And kind of just get start to 453 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 1: ask a lot of question times. I wish I had 454 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: done that when I was younger. I still do and 455 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: I still can, but it's sort of like, while you 456 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,360 Speaker 1: have access to start to ask the questions. For me, 457 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: it was a little complicated because my family we immigrated 458 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 1: here and so we were just like surviving, Like we 459 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,199 Speaker 1: were like, don't ask me questions, like we're trying to 460 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,159 Speaker 1: pay rent, we're trying to get food. And so I 461 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 1: had to build community. I had to build community while 462 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: you know, going through school, outside of school, find folks 463 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 1: who you feel that connection with your community with, feel 464 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: like you share those identities with. It's super important. I 465 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: think without building that community, I feel like I wouldn't 466 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: have developed the confidence in my identity to explore and 467 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: to question and to be curious. And that's one thing 468 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: I would say, like, find your people, find your tribe, 469 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: find the folks that you feel connected to, and share 470 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: your curiosities with. What that would look like in therapy, 471 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 1: I think is kind of exploring what have you been 472 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: told about who you are, and what have you been 473 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: told about what you look like in your family? And 474 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: what messages were you given about that were the positive 475 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: messages where the messages that didn't make you feel good? 476 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: Who did you feel close to in your early family 477 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: like that made you feel safe in your identity and 478 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: so kind of identifying those things are important, particularly thinking 479 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: of that age group like late teens, early twenties, where 480 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: so much is happening developmentally identity wise, that you need grounding, 481 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: You need some folks to remind you like who you are, 482 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: and it's okay that you're struggling right now, It's okay 483 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: to ask questions. I think, particularly around that age group, 484 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: identity can be so confronted and so shaky that it 485 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: can lead you to kind of like experiments and do 486 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: things that maybe aren't so healthy for you. And so 487 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: those are some things I would recommend. And if you're 488 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: thinking about I think entering therapy, kind of enter it 489 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: with an openness and a curiosity as opposed to all 490 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: I know already right, kind of like being willing to 491 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: explore all the different ways that your identity has impacted 492 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: your life. I would say, yeah, yeah, you know, I 493 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: think one thing that often comes up when people start 494 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 1: doing this kind of work is shame, right like this, 495 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: I'm embarrassed that I didn't know this. Like what kinds 496 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: of things would you offer to people live that is 497 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: something that they experience in this journey? Yeah, you know, 498 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: shame and guilty like these two cool cousins not cousins, right, 499 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: because they keep you silent and they keep you quiet 500 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 1: and internalizing a lot of blame or responsibility for something 501 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: that isn't And so if that is coming up, that's 502 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: why I think to having community is important, like having 503 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: folks to explore those feelings and experiences with. Right, you're 504 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: not crazy, it's not like you're making it up. But 505 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: also super important to kind of like release yourself from 506 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: some of the like internalized negative stereotypes and the stigma 507 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: and frankly a lot of the internalized racism that kind 508 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 1: of happens, right, like thinking of ourselves as bad or 509 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: not good enough because I didn't know this, or the 510 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: family dynamic of their family history and culture is to 511 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: pretend that these things didn't make sense. How are you 512 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: supposed to know? Like, how are you supposed to know 513 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: those things? And so coming to terms of I didn't 514 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: know and I'm willing to learn. Is super important to 515 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: kind of silence those not so helpful thoughts and feelings. 516 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: It's okay to honor them, there's make space for them, 517 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: But to the extent that they keep you quiet or 518 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 1: isolated or distant, I would question that and kind of 519 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: see where you can kind of let all of some 520 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: of those things and find community around it. I think 521 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: Instagram does I think a good job of like you 522 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: can find your people. That way, you can connect, connect 523 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: to like communities and content creators and say, you know, 524 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: if you have a question or or things like that. Yeah, 525 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: super important, find find your people and find where you 526 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: can feel safe. Yeah, you've talked about the importance of 527 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: community a couple of times. I was going to ask you, 528 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: have you seen communities that would be good for people 529 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: who are wanting to learn more about this, Like, are 530 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 1: there certain hashtags that people can find on Instagram or 531 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: you know, on Twitter, or communities at certain websites or 532 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: podcasts or books that you feel like would be helpful 533 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: for people. Yeah. There's a really great Instagram account called 534 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: and Cultured Call, and I find their account to be 535 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: so awesome. I think, particularly for a flat is coming 536 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: to their like black identity. It's a space I think 537 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: where the energy and the dynamic is like we're very 538 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 1: much here to embrace our blackness and what that looks 539 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: like in our lives and kind of dismantle all of 540 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 1: like the stereotypes, messaging, stigmas, white supremacy, bs that we've 541 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 1: been told about black Latin Ida And so I think, 542 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: particularly when it comes to like the Dominican Haitian dynamics 543 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: and those things, there's a lot I think that needs 544 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: to like needs to happen that space and more of 545 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 1: seeing each other really as you know, as connected people. 546 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: I think because of the history of the island there's 547 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: so much and so that account I think there's a 548 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: good job of creating a space for both. Oh. I 549 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: just found this really great podcast bag Ladies with a 550 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: Z at the end, and there are these two for Latinas. 551 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 1: I think they're from the Bronx, and they just do 552 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 1: a really good job again of like like speaking really 553 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: authentically to the identity, to their experience creating a community. 554 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,719 Speaker 1: I think around what it's like to walk around with 555 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 1: this complex identity and all the different spaces where you 556 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: may feel welcomes and then not right, and so they're 557 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,879 Speaker 1: really great. They're great to listen to, and I think 558 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,719 Speaker 1: for me or Resonates is like that authenticity, like being 559 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: willing to share their experiences and being honest about it 560 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 1: and inviting other people to like witness their experiences is 561 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,919 Speaker 1: really great. So yeah, those are two that I can 562 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,279 Speaker 1: think of right now. But that's a great place for 563 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 1: people to get started. And where can people find more 564 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: information about you? What is your website as well as 565 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,919 Speaker 1: any social media handles you'd like to share? Yeah, I'm 566 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 1: not doctor there Luisa Boni Fascio dot com and my 567 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 1: Instagram is at my name Dr Lisa Bonni Fascio. I'm 568 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 1: not super active. I've been taking a little bit of 569 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:04,760 Speaker 1: a social media right and just just for my sanity, 570 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:10,440 Speaker 1: Mr Joy sometimes understandable perfect. Thank you so much for 571 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 1: all that information. Will be sure to include that in 572 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 1: this show notes. And thank you so much for she 573 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,839 Speaker 1: and your expertise with us today. I appreciate it. Thank 574 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: you for having me. This is awesome. I'm so glad 575 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: Dr Bona Facia was able to share her expertise with 576 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,439 Speaker 1: us today. To learn more about her or to check 577 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,319 Speaker 1: out the resources she shared visit the show notes at 578 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash session to to 579 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: seven and don't forget to text two of your girls 580 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 1: and tell them to check out the episode as well. 581 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:40,920 Speaker 1: If you're looking for a therapist in your area, be 582 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 1: sure to check out our therapist directory at Therapy for 583 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,799 Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want 584 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 1: to continue digging into this topic or just be in 585 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,319 Speaker 1: community with other sisters, come on over and join us 586 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: in this sister circle. It's our cozy corner of the 587 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 1: Internet design just for black women. You can join us 588 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 1: at community that Therapy for Black Earls dot com. Thank 589 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 1: you all so much for joining me again this week. 590 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,359 Speaker 1: I look forward to continue in this conversation with you 591 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 1: all real soon. Take good care.