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Speaker 1: From Mahard where Innovation, money and power Collie in Silicon

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Speaker 1: Vallet NBN.

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Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.

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Speaker 3: And Caroline heind of Bloomberg's World headquarters in New York,

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Speaker 3: and I'm Ed Ludlow in San Francisco.

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Speaker 4: This is Bloomberg Technology coming up.

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Speaker 5: Crypto assets.

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Speaker 3: They surge as a court overturns the SEC and paves

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Speaker 3: the way for the first US Bitcoin ETF will keep

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Speaker 3: you covered throughout the hour.

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Speaker 6: Claus will bring you the latest from the earnings front

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Speaker 6: as China's PDD surges, MIDA revenue b and show me

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Speaker 6: tops profit estimates.

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Speaker 3: More ahead, an Apollo io raises one hundred million dollars

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Speaker 3: to reach a one point six billion dollar valuation and

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Speaker 3: up round.

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Speaker 5: We'll sit down with the CEO later this hour to discuss.

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Speaker 3: But first, well, let's hone in on what has been

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Speaker 3: the story of the last hour. Bitcoin surging, that sudden

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Speaker 3: move to the upside. We're back in that twenty seven

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Speaker 3: thousand dollars range on the og of the crypto space,

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Speaker 3: up five point six percent. Why because it seems as

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Speaker 3: though this federal court has gone against the grain of

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Speaker 3: the SEC has a side that maybe we can carve

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Speaker 3: away for a spot bitcoin ETF.

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Speaker 5: This is all about the Grayscale ruling ED.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and we're also seeing that app unsurprisingly play out

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Speaker 6: in crypto related stocks, coinbased, for example, jumping by the

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Speaker 6: most in more than six weeks. Our colleagues at Bloomberg

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Speaker 6: Intelligence have a note out that kind of applies to

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Speaker 6: all of these names, that each part of the universe relates.

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Speaker 6: Crypto may benefit as more ETF SKED approved, but they

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Speaker 6: do note that there are multiple applications, right, so black

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Speaker 6: Rock being one institution that has an ETF application in

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Speaker 6: how does coinbase benefit, as an example, from servicing those

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Speaker 6: up thirteen point four percent. I think we've got to

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Speaker 6: go to the understanding what has happened. It was a

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Speaker 6: bit of a surprise. That's bringing Bloomberg's Shnale Bassek, and

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Speaker 6: I guess a good place to start Shanale is what

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Speaker 6: did the appeals court say about the original SEC decision

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Speaker 6: to block an application for a bitcoin ets.

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Speaker 7: Now, I think the part that's very important here at

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Speaker 7: is this idea that the denial of Grayscale's proposal, and

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Speaker 7: this is according to the ruling that the denial was

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Speaker 7: arbitrary and capricious because the Commission failed to explain the

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Speaker 7: difference of treatment of similar products, which was a key

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Speaker 7: part of the Grayscale argument.

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Speaker 2: Here.

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Speaker 7: When you look at the decision here by the court,

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Speaker 7: and remember there are three drudges that ruled in Greyscale's favor,

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Speaker 7: there is a process that you have to understand. This

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Speaker 7: is this idea that there are now forty five days

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Speaker 7: in which both sides review this ruling and the sec

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Speaker 7: could always push back. Now, the other thing that is

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Speaker 7: a big open question for Grayscale is the idea of

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Speaker 7: whether they have to refile for an etf Remember when

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Speaker 7: you look at grayscales filing relative to many other filings,

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Speaker 7: including black Rock's own filing. Is this idea of a

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Speaker 7: surveillance sharing agreement that is something that has largely been

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Speaker 7: said to be benefiting some of the filings such as

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Speaker 7: black Rocks. Actually, in the next hour or so, we're

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Speaker 7: also going to be speaking to coinbases top lawyer about

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Speaker 7: the benefits of, for example, a surveill lancher and agreement,

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Speaker 7: in which Coinbase has been a big part of that push.

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Speaker 7: It is unclear how soon Rayscale can get from a

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Speaker 7: GBTC to an ETF conversion, and really right now when

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Speaker 7: you look at GBTC, it has narrowed. The discount to

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Speaker 7: its net asset value has narrowed quite meaningfully. But in

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Speaker 7: recent years the reason to hold GBTC has really become

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Speaker 7: part of the idea that it would eventually convert to

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Speaker 7: an ETF. Even just today, in the wake of the ruling,

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Speaker 7: you were looking this morning at a twenty five percent

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Speaker 7: nearly discount to net asset value that has narrowed to

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Speaker 7: fifteen percent, and so you are seeing it come much

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Speaker 7: closer to its net asset value in the wake of

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Speaker 7: this ruling, in the expectation of even with this uncertainty,

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Speaker 7: this is still a large win for Grayscale and the

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Speaker 7: crypto industry, and are seeing to the point you're making

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Speaker 7: earlier bitcoin.

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Speaker 5: Prices and other crypto related stacks rise.

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Speaker 3: And synchrony SEC saying that the agency is reviewing the

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Speaker 3: court decision on gray Scale, and of course gray Scale

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Speaker 3: anticipating what five point seven billion dollars could be on

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Speaker 3: Earth could be of value could be sort of given

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Speaker 3: back to the investor base if indeed it could turn

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Speaker 3: from a trust into an ETF Shnali Bassac all over

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Speaker 3: the sort of nuance and really going into some of

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Speaker 3: the micro but let's go a bit more macro. What

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Speaker 3: this means for the industry. And please to say Aya

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Speaker 3: Kantorovich is with us. She is the co founder and

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Speaker 3: Coco Fractal, it's an infrastructure provider for institutional crypto training

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Speaker 3: on chain. Does this law in more institutional players? Does

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Speaker 3: this mean?

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Speaker 5: And this is almost a safer space to get into now.

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Speaker 8: Absolutely, and you can see that in terms of overall

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Speaker 8: market sentiment. So Coinshares published a very interesting report this

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Speaker 8: morning that showed the outflow of dollars into crypto products

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Speaker 8: institutional products was at its highest similar to March during

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Speaker 8: the banking crisis, And so overall sentiment was really negative

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Speaker 8: leading into this news, and I think to all the

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Speaker 8: points mentioned before, the market was really caught off guard

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Speaker 8: in terms of the announcement this morning.

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Speaker 5: It's really great.

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Speaker 8: It changes the sentiment in the US and globally for

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Speaker 8: institutions around this is moving forward. We're actually going to

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Speaker 8: get the guidelines we've been looking for in terms of

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Speaker 8: how to approach the space at large and.

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Speaker 3: Go global for a moment with us, because look, other

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Speaker 3: places have spot bitcoin ets. What has been the US's

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Speaker 3: issue with it? What more broadly, have you felt as

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Speaker 3: different with the SEC versus other regulators.

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Speaker 8: At a high level, it's really the different players that

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Speaker 8: are in the space today, whether it is on the

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Speaker 8: fact of the SEC working closely with Coinbase and obviously

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Speaker 8: there's a lawsuit there that they're working through the SEC

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Speaker 8: and Greyscale. There's a bunch of intermediaries today that the

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Speaker 8: SEC is working with, and it is just simply unclear

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Speaker 8: in terms of how the SEC is going to regulate

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Speaker 8: versus them pushing out a rule book or Congress having

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Speaker 8: to just take the step and make guidelines for everyone

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Speaker 8: in the United States to follow. And unfortunately, even if

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Speaker 8: you compare to the UK with Micah, you know, we

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Speaker 8: just haven't seen that level of proactive guidelines in the

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Speaker 8: United States.

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Speaker 6: Judge Naomi Rao, who was on the appeals panel, pointed

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Speaker 6: out that specifically the SEC's treatment of Grace the Scale

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Speaker 6: was arbitrary and capricious because they hadn't treated others in

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Speaker 6: the same way. And our colleague Katie Greifeld, who leads

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Speaker 6: our ETF coverage, points out that this is just one

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Speaker 6: thing that might happen this week. There's a deadline Friday

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Speaker 6: for black Rock, there's a twenty one shares in a

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Speaker 6: Vesco deadline Saturday. What happens next to your mind?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, again, I think the market was just simply caught

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Speaker 8: off guard. We were expecting this GBTC news to come

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Speaker 8: out in the last two weeks, and so on the

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Speaker 8: backs of Mackerel, on the backs of Jackson Hole, you're

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Speaker 8: just seeing that the market was not expecting this news.

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Speaker 8: An overall sentiment was implied, volatility was at its lowest,

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Speaker 8: and so really what that sets us up for is

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Speaker 8: a very volatile Q three and Q four. We're probably

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Speaker 8: going to see the next three months have a lot

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Speaker 8: of activity between these different players. And listen, the legal

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Speaker 8: bandwidth of Blackrock and Fidelity as well as ARC is

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Speaker 8: going to be far far larger than some of the

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Speaker 8: crypto players, and we will likely see those conversations get

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Speaker 8: pushed further than what we've seen to date. So it's

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Speaker 8: very exciting for the United States.

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Speaker 6: Who benefits the most from this if an ETFs approved

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Speaker 6: beyond the ETF provided themselves.

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Speaker 8: Who wins institutional investors, And really the reason they win

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Speaker 8: is institutional investors are looking for regulated paths to get

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Speaker 8: exposure to these assets in structures that they're used to

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Speaker 8: in traditional finance, and that just hasn't been available yet

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Speaker 8: today in the United States. And so really this is

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Speaker 8: a huge push forward for us. We've all said that

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Speaker 8: the institutional wave is coming, but it really can't come

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Speaker 8: until we have very simple, regulated products available in the market.

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Speaker 8: And this is a bit push forward towards that. And

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Speaker 8: that's exactly what fractal is a little about.

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Speaker 3: I mean, at atf it's pretty basic at best futures

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Speaker 3: ETF too. You're thinking about options offerings, you're thinking about

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Speaker 3: how you can get basically traditional finance the tradi fly

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Speaker 3: world to see what they can do in normal finance

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Speaker 3: and bring it to crypto.

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Speaker 5: How easy a role, slow a process.

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Speaker 8: Is that that's exactly where it's a slow process only

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Speaker 8: because it's taken so long for us to get this

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Speaker 8: to this first base with the SPOTTYTF. But to your point,

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Speaker 8: once we get the SPOTTYTF, it's going to be so

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Speaker 8: much clearer for us to be able to give access.

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Speaker 8: You saw coinbase CME, who are all able to trade

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Speaker 8: futures in the United States, and that took a long

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Speaker 8: time for that to happen as well in the States,

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Speaker 8: and so you're able to see a path forward for

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Speaker 8: us to really be able to offer not only options

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Speaker 8: but structure products in a regulated way that institutions are

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Speaker 8: comfortable getting access to it.

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Speaker 5: It's really very exciting, great to have you here.

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Speaker 3: So we'll talk walk us all through the sort of

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Speaker 3: ramifications more broadly of this very specific ruling that's come

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Speaker 3: from the Appeals court. Ayakon Torovich of course has confractal

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Speaker 3: which is basically.

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Speaker 5: In the New York.

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Speaker 6: All right, we're checking in on some earnings movies out

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Speaker 6: of China. These are the US listed shares of some

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Speaker 6: China tech names PDD top line growth sixty six percent,

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Speaker 6: way outperforming names like Ali, Barbera and JD. But it's

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Speaker 6: actually about Timu, their US based business that we're kind

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Speaker 6: of interested in. It came out at the Super Bowl

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Speaker 6: with an ad. We'll dig into that with our team

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Speaker 6: in a second. BYD doubled net income in the quarter.

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Speaker 6: We'd already talked about how BYD had had a record

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Speaker 6: with both plug in hybrids and battery electric cars in

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Speaker 6: the course had just gone now showing up on the

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Speaker 6: bottom line in terms of profit neo a wide and

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Speaker 6: expected quarterly loss, deletely different story in the EB space,

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Speaker 6: and then show me an interesting one in kind of

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Speaker 6: the smartphone handset discussion. Better than expected financial results so

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Speaker 6: much one pick. I think what they all have in

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Speaker 6: common is that we're getting some more signals about the

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Speaker 6: Chinese economy and the Chinese consumer. Joining us from with

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Speaker 6: more Bloombergs Isabelle in New York and Henry Wren out

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Speaker 6: in London. Henry, let's start with you with some of

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Speaker 6: the specific names. And I think we'll start with show

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Speaker 6: me first because this was one there was a little

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Speaker 6: bit surprising to some investors.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, so shall mes revenue fell by about four percent

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Speaker 9: during the last quarter, but that decline has been better

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Speaker 9: than analyst expectations, so that does show that the smartphone

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Speaker 9: market slumb might have been past its worst period. Remember

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Speaker 9: shall Me sells smartphone devices to all over the world,

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Speaker 9: so it's not just in mainland China, but also in India,

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Speaker 9: in many emerging market countries, and Latin America some parts

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Speaker 9: of Europe as well, So its results does seem to

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Speaker 9: be a buometer for the global smart market sentiment. And

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Speaker 9: remember that shell Me is also prioritizing its profitability, and

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Speaker 9: it's pushing through its strategy for premium offerings, and it

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Speaker 9: does seem to be bearing fruit. Its average selling price

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Speaker 9: in China has expanded by twenty four percent in the

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Speaker 9: last quarter, and the company set our earnings call is

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Speaker 9: that it seeks to expand its strategy to not just

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Speaker 9: in China, blosso overseas. It says, we just need to

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Speaker 9: focus on these premium products like these voldable phones, and

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Speaker 9: we do well in this category.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting, isn't it that they're saying, yeah, let's go

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Speaker 3: for a higher price point, let's actually still be thinking

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Speaker 3: about overall profitability over growth when their overall macroeconomy as well.

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Speaker 5: It's a pretty painful place.

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Speaker 3: We just look at how much they're having to up

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Speaker 3: the ante with what we understand going to be cutting

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Speaker 3: mortgage rates for example, to try and spur on the

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Speaker 3: Chinese ecomy.

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Speaker 5: What do any of these earnings really tell us about that?

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Speaker 1: So I think these two and Henry can go way

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Speaker 1: into more detail, especially with PDDs. They're good earnings. As

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Speaker 1: you can see, the stocks are really just reacting very

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Speaker 1: positively to them. But then they come with a new one.

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Speaker 1: So for instance, just to touch on lightly and PDD

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Speaker 1: its focus is more lower income consumers, so then that

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Speaker 1: might bode well for China's faltering economy. So it kind

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Speaker 1: of works reversed in that way, but Chinese economy still

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Speaker 1: really isn't doing as well. Nearly every day you see

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Speaker 1: one gloomy headline after the other. For instance, today we

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Speaker 1: have Country Garden Holdings, it's a big property giant, it's

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Speaker 1: making fresh effort to avoid a default. And then we

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Speaker 1: have China Great Weall Asset Management. That's a state that

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Speaker 1: run manager and it's also suffering a bond slum. So

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Speaker 1: one after the other, the ceaseless warning we're just seeing,

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Speaker 1: especially from their credit market. It's just really underscoring one

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Speaker 1: thing that the economy is weak. And to your point,

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Speaker 1: we also have a lot of developments in the regional

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Speaker 1: bank space and the mortgage space, so it's not looking

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Speaker 1: that good to see it. Although I mean it's not

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Speaker 1: all gloom and doom because as we can see, some

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Speaker 1: standout companies like PDD and cl ME are doing well.

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Speaker 1: So sometimes what's good for one thing can be bad

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Speaker 1: for another.

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Speaker 6: You know, Henry, we're showing that big jump on the

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Speaker 6: pdd A DR's US listed shares. You know, there's a

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Speaker 6: story here about them beating out other domestic Chinese names

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Speaker 6: in terms of top line growth. But we learned a

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Speaker 6: lot about their US business that we don't discuss pdd

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Speaker 6: A lot on this show. Just explain what happened in

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Speaker 6: the quarter.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 9: Sure, So the overall results are good, as we can

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Speaker 9: see in the market reaction, it's a sharp positive reaction

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Speaker 9: from investors, twenty percent of sheer price expansion like during

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Speaker 9: the during the session.

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Speaker 4: But as you.

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Speaker 9: Said, the focus is really on Tea Mood. It's a

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Speaker 9: but just shopping app overseas. That app has been expanding

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Speaker 9: very fast in Europe, but.

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Speaker 4: As well as in US as well.

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Speaker 9: So the company disclosed very little about this team mod

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Speaker 9: shopping app, but it does include that in one of

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Speaker 9: its lines called transactional services revenue.

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Speaker 4: So that transactional services.

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Speaker 9: Revenue includes some things including the t mood, the international business,

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Speaker 9: but also the grocery buying business. But that revenue has

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Speaker 9: been well above analyst estimates. So it does seem to

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Speaker 9: show that that team who has been gaining tractions overseas. However,

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Speaker 9: there's another concern. It's on the profitability side, on the margins.

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Speaker 9: So the company is there expending overseas, so it's investing more,

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Speaker 9: so the margins could be hit because of that.

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Speaker 3: We want to thank both of you, of course, Henry

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Speaker 3: ren Isbelli across the macro micro picture of China and

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Speaker 3: indeed a little bit of what the US consumer is

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Speaker 3: telling us as well. And let's dig in there for

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Speaker 3: a moment, because best Buy says that.

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Speaker 5: Look, it's reached the low point in tech.

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Speaker 3: Demand after a pretty strong second quarter report pointed to

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Speaker 3: an optic or maybe at least a bottoming in demand

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Speaker 3: for consumer electronics and household of plants. Is let's go

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Speaker 3: to our own running casees in Dallas with more. Look,

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Speaker 3: it's still pretty ugly in the court.

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Speaker 5: Ha just gone. But it seems as though maybe they

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Speaker 5: think there's a turning of the tide.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, they're What they're saying is that they're starting to

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Speaker 10: see light at the end of the tunnel. The backdrop

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Speaker 10: of course here is that the sales declines at best

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Speaker 10: Buy has been among the biggest, you know, in the

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Speaker 10: world of big US retailers. And what they're saying now

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Speaker 10: is that, you know, they're starting to get a little

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Speaker 10: bit less bad, and they have a line of sight

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Speaker 10: to you know, being kind of flat, maybe even growing

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Speaker 10: a little bit next year.

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Speaker 6: They also said that short refresh cycles and the tech

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Speaker 6: are being driven by guess what, Caroline, artificial intelligence our

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Speaker 6: thanks to Bloomberg's Brending case. Now coming up here on

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Speaker 6: the show, we're going to talk about the state of

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Speaker 6: buy now, pay later and speak to a CEO of

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Speaker 6: a company that launches in opposition to the movement.

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Speaker 4: This is Bloomberg, all right.

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Speaker 6: We're checking in on some earnings movies out of China.

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Speaker 6: These are the US listed shares of some China tech names.

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Speaker 6: PDD top line growth sixty six percent, way outperforming names

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Speaker 6: like Ali, Barbera and JD. But it's actually about Timu,

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Speaker 6: their US based business that we're kind of interested in.

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Speaker 6: It came out at the Super Bowl with an ad.

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Speaker 6: We'll dig into that with our team in a second.

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Speaker 6: BYD doubled net income in the quarter. We'd already talked

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Speaker 6: about how BYD had had a record with both plug

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Speaker 6: in hybrids and battery electric cars in the court had

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Speaker 6: just gone now showing up on the bottom line in

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Speaker 6: terms of profit. Neo a wide and expected quarterly lost,

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Speaker 6: a completely different story in the EB space, and then

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Speaker 6: jaw Me an interesting one in kind of the smartphone

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Speaker 6: handset discussion. Better than expected financial results so much to

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Speaker 6: one pick. I think what they all have in common

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Speaker 6: is that we're getting some more signals about the Chinese

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Speaker 6: economy and the Chinese consumer.

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Speaker 4: Joining us from with.

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Speaker 6: More Bloombergs Isabella Leie in New York and Henry ren

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Speaker 6: Out in London. Henry, let's start with you with some

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Speaker 6: of the specific names, and I think we'll start with

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Speaker 6: Shaumi first because this was one there was a little

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Speaker 6: bit surprising to some investors.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, so shall We's revenue fell by about four percent

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Speaker 9: during the last quarter, but that decline has been better

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Speaker 9: than annas expectations, so that does show that the smart

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Speaker 9: form markets plumb might have been past its worst period.

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Speaker 9: Remember shall Me sells smartphone devices to all over the world,

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Speaker 9: so it's not just in mainland China, but also in India,

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Speaker 9: in many emerging market countries, and Latin America some parts

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Speaker 9: of Europe as well, so its results does seem to

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Speaker 9: be a barometer for the global smartphone market sentiment. And

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Speaker 9: remember that show Me is also prioritizing its profitability, and

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Speaker 9: it's pushing through its strategy for premium offerings and it

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Speaker 9: does seem to be bearing fruit. Its average selling price

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Speaker 9: in China has expanded by twenty four percent in the

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Speaker 9: last quarter, and the company set on earnings calls so

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Speaker 9: that it seeks to expand its strategy to not just

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Speaker 9: in China, blosso overseas. It says, we just need to

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Speaker 9: focus on these premium products like these votable phones, and

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Speaker 9: we do well in this category.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting, isn't it that they're saying, yeah, let's go

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Speaker 3: for a higher price point, let's actually still be thinking

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Speaker 3: about overall profitability of growth when their overall macro economy

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Speaker 3: is about it's a pretty painful place.

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Speaker 5: We just look at how much.

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Speaker 3: They happen to the ante with well, we understand going

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Speaker 3: to be cutting mortgage rates for example, to try and

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Speaker 3: spur on the Chinese economy. What do any of these

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Speaker 3: earnings really tell us about that?

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Speaker 1: So I think these two and Henry can go way

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Speaker 1: into more detail, especially with PDDs. They're good earnings. As

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Speaker 1: you can see, the stocks are really just reacting very

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Speaker 1: positively to them.

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Speaker 5: But then they come with a new one.

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Speaker 1: So for instance, just to touch on lightly, and pdd

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Speaker 1: its focus is more lower income consumers, so then that

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Speaker 1: might bode well for China's faltering economy. So it kind

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Speaker 1: of works reversed in that way, but Chinese economy still

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Speaker 1: really isn't doing as well. Nearly every day you see

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Speaker 1: one gloomy headline after the other. For instance, today we

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Speaker 1: have Country Garden Holdings, it's a big property giant, it's

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Speaker 1: making fresh effort to avoid a default. And then we

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Speaker 1: have China Great Wall Asset Management. That's a state that

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Speaker 1: run manager and it's also suffering a bond slum. So

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Speaker 1: one after the other, the ceaseless warning we're just seeing,

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Speaker 1: especially from their credit market.

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Speaker 2: It's just really.

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Speaker 1: Underscoring one thing. The economy is weak, and to your point,

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Speaker 1: we also have a lot of development in the regional

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Speaker 1: bank space and the mortgage space, so it's not looking

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Speaker 1: that good to see it, although I mean it's not

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Speaker 1: all gooom and doom, because as we can see, some

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Speaker 1: standout companies like PDD in me are doing well. So

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Speaker 1: sometimes what's good for one thing can be bad for another.

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Speaker 6: You know, Henry, we're showing that big jump on the

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Speaker 6: pdd A DR's US listed shares. You know, there's a

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Speaker 6: story here about them beating out other domestic Chinese names

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Speaker 6: in terms of top line growth.

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Speaker 4: But we learned a lot about their.

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Speaker 6: US business that we don't discuss PDD a lot on

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Speaker 6: this show. Just explain what happened in the quarter.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, sure, So the overall results are good, as we

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Speaker 9: can see in the market reaction, it's a sharp positive

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Speaker 9: reaction from investors, twenty percent of sheer price expansion like

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Speaker 9: during the session. But as you said, the focus is

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Speaker 9: really on Timu. It's but just shopping up overseas. That

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Speaker 9: app has been expanding very fast in Europe, but.

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Speaker 4: As well as in US as well.

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Speaker 9: So the company disclosed very little about its team shopping app,

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Speaker 9: but it does include that in one of its lines

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Speaker 9: called transactional services revenue. So that transactional services revenue includes

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Speaker 9: some things including the tea mood, the international business, but

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Speaker 9: also the grocery buying business. But that revenue has been

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Speaker 9: well above analyst estimates, so it does seem to show

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Speaker 9: that that team has been gaining tractions overseas. However, there's

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Speaker 9: another concern. It's on the profitability side, on the margins,

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Speaker 9: So the company is expanding overseas, so it's investing more,

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Speaker 9: so the margins could be hit because of that.

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Speaker 3: We want to thank both of you, of course, Henry

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Speaker 3: ren Isabeli across the macro micro picture of China and

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Speaker 3: indeed a little bit of what the US consumer is

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Speaker 3: telling us as well. And let's dig in there for

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Speaker 3: a moment, because best Buy says that, look, it's reached

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Speaker 3: the low point in tech demand after a pretty strong

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Speaker 3: second quard a report pointed to an optic or maybe

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Speaker 3: at least a bottoming in demand for consumer electronics and

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Speaker 3: household plants. Is let's go to our own running cases

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Speaker 3: in Dallas with more Look, it's still pretty ugly in

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Speaker 3: the court had just gone, but it seems as though

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Speaker 3: maybe they think there's a turning of the tide.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, they're What they're saying is that they're starting to

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Speaker 10: see light at the end of the tunnel. The backdrop

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Speaker 10: of course here is that the sales declines at best

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Speaker 10: Buy have been among the biggest, you know, in the

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Speaker 10: world of big US retailers. And what they're saying now

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Speaker 10: is that, you know, they're starting to get a little

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Speaker 10: bit less bad and they have a line of sight

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Speaker 10: to you know, being kind of flat, maybe even growing

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Speaker 10: a little bit next year.

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Speaker 6: They also said that short refresh cycles in the tech

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Speaker 6: are being driven by guess what, Caroline, artificial intelligence and

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Speaker 6: thanks to Bloomberg's Brending cases.

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Speaker 5: Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. I'm Caroline Hyde in.

440
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 6: New York and I met Ludlow in San Francisco. Let's

441
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,600
Speaker 6: get a talking tech and first up. Open Ai is

442
00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,679
Speaker 6: now a corporate version of chat geep with privacy safeguards

443
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,879
Speaker 6: and added features like longer text prompts. This in an

444
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 6: effort to make money from its well known chatbot. And

445
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,160
Speaker 6: speaking of AI, Google is adding AI tools from companies

446
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,600
Speaker 6: like Meta and Anthropic to its cloud platform, weaving more

447
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 6: generative AI into its products and positioning itself as a

448
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,160
Speaker 6: one stop shop for cloud customers seeking to tap into

449
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:21,920
Speaker 6: the technology.

450
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:22,440
Speaker 4: Plus.

451
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,959
Speaker 6: Senate majority leader Chuck Schumer plans to bring together several

452
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,920
Speaker 6: tech industry chiefs to discuss the ramifications of AI next month.

453
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 6: That meeting includes Tesla CEO Elon Musk, Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg,

454
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,680
Speaker 6: but also the CEOs of Google, Microsoft, and many others.

455
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 6: This will be the first of Schumer's AI Insight Forums,

456
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 6: aimed at giving Congress more influence over the future of AI.

457
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 5: Caroline now mentioned forcage match. Meanwhile, let's stick with AI though.

458
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,199
Speaker 3: How is well changing the game of basically everything, but

459
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:53,920
Speaker 3: particularly your wealth management.

460
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 5: Let's talk about it.

461
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 3: With Braggenzer Founer, CTO of Father, a startup focused on

462
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 3: utilizing pretty cunning edge to anology to advance wealth management

463
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 3: in particularly the sort.

464
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 5: Of mass affluent area. I suppose and you.

465
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,640
Speaker 3: Of course were busy building the AI team over at

466
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,119
Speaker 3: Goldman when it came back to sort of the wealth

467
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 3: private wealth management part.

468
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 5: How have you brought that over with Father? What are

469
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 5: you offering this different?

470
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 11: He Caroline first ed, Caroline, thanks for having me on.

471
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 11: It's fun to be here. It's a fun time to

472
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,439
Speaker 11: be in wealth management technology. And you know, when you

473
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 11: talk to someone like me, it's really been four years

474
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,160
Speaker 11: in the trenches farther kind of grinding away and realizing

475
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 11: the opportunity ahead, and now we have these big moments

476
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 11: where it comes out to the public. So we've been

477
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,880
Speaker 11: at this for a very long time and just really

478
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:43,159
Speaker 11: quickly to sort of adjust there. We are focused on

479
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 11: kind of the core high net worth market, but you'll

480
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,640
Speaker 11: find that if you use technology, you can actually.

481
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 2: Broaden your audience. It's an operational problem.

482
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:56,439
Speaker 11: We put these wealth management kind of verticals around wealth

483
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 11: because it's profitable operationally, sort of higher net worth. It's

484
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 11: all the same operations all the way down. So just

485
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 11: to your question about about how we're bringing forth AI,

486
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 11: we broadly believe that quantitative methods are going to help

487
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 11: us to meet the opportunity in our industry.

488
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 2: And if we look at how our industry.

489
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 11: Is is covering the opportunity, there's about four hundred and

490
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,360
Speaker 11: twenty trillion dollars of net worth in the United States,

491
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,120
Speaker 11: and if I add up what the biggest players are doing,

492
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 11: it's hard for me to get to twenty trillion. So

493
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 11: we're talking about a massive opportunity to bring everything out

494
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 11: towards out to a broader set of people.

495
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:33,879
Speaker 2: And that's what AI can bring us.

496
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,160
Speaker 3: But ken it in the here and the now, when

497
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,719
Speaker 3: we're still looking at perhaps regulatory headwinds.

498
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 5: At least it seems to be garnering more oversight.

499
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 11: From Garaganzweth, Well, it certainly does seem to be guarding

500
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 11: more oversight. But you know, I think that we're fortunate

501
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,880
Speaker 11: in this in this time to say, to have someone

502
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 11: heading the SEC for example, who knows about this technology

503
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 11: and actually is able to talk talk about it, because

504
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 11: I don't know that you have that across the board

505
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 11: and government right now. You know, if you look back

506
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 11: at how Gary Gensler has written about AI technology, he.

507
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 2: Wrote a paper in twenty twenty.

508
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 11: This is three years ago, one year after Father was founded,

509
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 11: and this is really the time that we started to

510
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 11: see all the pieces come together for AI to start

511
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 11: to start delivering. So he has a mission to do

512
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 11: here and now it's protect investors.

513
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 2: I hope that as we go forward he.

514
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 11: Also realizes and sort of leans into protect investors but

515
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 11: also get maximum number of people exposure to markets, because

516
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 11: this is a true miracle being in the markets.

517
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 4: Right.

518
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 6: Could you explain how your technology for proprietary tech works.

519
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 6: I see that you know on your website you still

520
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 6: toolk up the experience of the human advisors that work

521
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 6: with you at Father.

522
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 11: Yes, And I think it's really really important that you

523
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 11: hit on that d that we fundamentally believe and this

524
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 11: is from this is from deep knowledge of the technology

525
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 11: as someone who's been a leader and been around it

526
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 11: for a very very long time that humans are are

527
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 11: required to have a great wealth experience and will be

528
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 11: for the foreseeable future. I think that if you ask anyone,

529
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 11: and we ask people, hey, would you like would you

530
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 11: like AI to fully manage your money in a general

531
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 11: in a very very general way, people say, well, one,

532
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 11: what doesn't mean to manage my money?

533
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 2: And advisors helping that?

534
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 11: And also they tend to say, no, we want to

535
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 11: interact with people. It's just that technology can allow more

536
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 11: humor human interaction.

537
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 6: Really, Brad, you talked about, you know, your your leadership

538
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 6: of the technology. You were at Goldman Sachs for for

539
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 6: several years. His David Solomon phoned you up and said, Brad,

540
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 6: I need your help with this AI thing.

541
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 4: I don't get it. Come in here and help us.

542
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know.

543
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 11: I must be off his text chain, and you know,

544
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 11: Chuck Chuck Schumer also hasn't hasn't texted me yet and

545
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 11: I'm still waiting for the invite.

546
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 3: Well, we'll get I'm sure you'll get win to them

547
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 3: and with some of the backers that you have.

548
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 5: Of course you've got back as like some adventures.

549
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 3: Coast Adventures was these sort of the vcs of the

550
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 3: AAR in Washington many a time. I'm interested in the

551
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 3: high network professionals that you serve.

552
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 5: What weren't they getting when you were at Gorman.

553
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 3: Why did you feel you had to get out, had

554
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 3: to serve and build something different.

555
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 11: So when you think about where we are, if we

556
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 11: look back at the history of wealth management, we had

557
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 11: for the fidelity of the world, vanguards of the world

558
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 11: who were bringing mutual funds. That's like execution and some

559
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 11: strategy involved. What we really get to do now in

560
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 11: AI is we get to have a deeply personalized plan.

561
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 11: And personalization is an overused thing in our industry, but

562
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 11: really we are fully contextualizing and able to fully contextualize

563
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 11: the relationship. So that's based on your taxes, where you live,

564
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 11: what's going on in your bank accounts, and we can

565
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 11: broaden the breadth of what wealth management is to provide

566
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 11: much better experience and deliver it at scale. And again

567
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 11: I've talked about how we're not really covering the opportunity

568
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 11: that well as an industry.

569
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 6: Brad, how concerned are your clients about their data, you know,

570
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 6: protection of it and how it's used. And by extension,

571
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 6: I already asked you about the technology but is it

572
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 6: a case that you're kind of technology agnostic you take

573
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 6: an existing large language model and vectorize your own client data,

574
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 6: or how does that work.

575
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 11: So one of the things that and this is where

576
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 11: you'll continue to hear me say as I talk about

577
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 11: AI and the broad market, we have a lot of

578
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 11: frameworks in history that's already been solved around these problems.

579
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 11: In wealth management, discretion is one of the most important

580
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 11: things that the advisors bring to the table. You are

581
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 11: talking about the most deeply sensitive subjects in your life.

582
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 11: You're talking about how you feel about your family, you're

583
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 11: talking about how you feel about your job. And that

584
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 11: has always been a core tenant of a good wealth advisor,

585
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 11: and it extends to technology as well. So when we

586
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 11: think about when we think about data in managing it,

587
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 11: we actually don't ever send your.

588
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 2: Personal data to large language models. We may send ten.

589
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 11: Plates to populate that data, but we retain all of

590
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 11: that data. And as you pointed to chat, GPT has

591
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 11: an enterprise version, but still we're waiting for more robust

592
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 11: tools before we start sending across Brad Genser, founder and

593
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 11: CTO father, just really interesting to draw the link between

594
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 11: the technology and your industry.

595
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for your time.

596
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 6: Now coming up here on Bloomberg Technology, Apollo Io, a

597
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 6: platform for sales and marketing workflow tools, nabs a one

598
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 6: point six billion dollar valuation. Our exclusive conversation coming up

599
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 6: with Apollo Io CEO Tim Jeng and Baine Ventures Merritt Hammer.

600
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 4: That's coming up next. Character.

601
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 11: Yeah.

602
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 3: Meanwhile, before we puvot to the world of BC, let's

603
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 3: just well, shiner light, what's happening in crypto?

604
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 5: It is the story of the day.

605
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 3: It feels like up seven percent on bitcoin at the moment,

606
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,719
Speaker 3: in fact, the biggest move for the asset since March

607
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty three, so clearly managing to trade though

608
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 3: basically that's higher since August sixteenth. Remember we have significantly

609
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 3: sold off throughout the month of August, as we have

610
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 3: across most of the tech asset classes from New York

611
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 3: and San Francisco.

612
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 5: This is Bloomberg.

613
00:29:50,360 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 6: Technology sales tech platform. Apoloio has raised one hundred million

614
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 6: dollars in new financing, placing it at a one point

615
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 6: six billion dollar valuation. The Series D investment was led

616
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 6: by Baine Capital Ventures, with participation from existing investors including

617
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 6: Sequoia Capital Tribe Capital and Nexus Venture Partners at a

618
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 6: higher valuation than it had before. Let's bring in a

619
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 6: poloio CEO Tim Jeng and Bain Ventures partner Merrit Humma

620
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 6: for this.

621
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 4: Marrit, I'll start with you. I Apollo's a great.

622
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 6: Example of a company where AI is basically adding to

623
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 6: the value and utility of customer data. But you point

624
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 6: out their track record is why you were interested to

625
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 6: do this round and indeed at a higher valuation.

626
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 12: Yes, absolutely so. You know, we were really struck by

627
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 12: the fact that Apollo is growing so quickly and so

628
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 12: officially at scale, more so than the vast majority of

629
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 12: companies in the market today, and it was a very

630
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 12: unusual combination of characteristics that God is very excited about

631
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 12: the company.

632
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 6: Now, Tim, you have more than five hundred thousand companies,

633
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 6: millions of uses. Why do you need one hundred million dollars?

634
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 13: Yeah, I feel like it's the perfect time for us

635
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 13: to raise money right now.

636
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 4: We've grown our revenue over in Nix in the last

637
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 4: couple of years.

638
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 13: We're according after a giant market. Although we're still really efficient.

639
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 13: We just feel like now is the perfect time to

640
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 13: pour poor fuel under the fire.

641
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 5: Okay, let's talk about that fuel.

642
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 3: You said you're gonna be investing in product, Tim, You're

643
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 3: gonna be investing in R and D.

644
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 5: But also talent.

645
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 3: Just how expensive has that talent become and where do

646
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 3: you add to it?

647
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 5: Tim?

648
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 13: Yeah, we're definitely an R and D company first and foremost,

649
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 13: so we're investing over sixty percent of our revenue typically

650
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 13: on R and D hiring.

651
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 2: Very very globally.

652
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 13: The market is definitely not as crazy as it was

653
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 13: before in terms of the talent market, hiring a lot

654
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 13: of engineers, designers, product pms across the world, especially within.

655
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 3: AI, talking about things that aren'swers crazy. Well, funding isn't

656
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 3: as crazy at the moment merit, and it's been a

657
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 3: tougher time for venture capitalists who've just raised big funds,

658
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 3: just as Bain Ventures has to be trying to allocate

659
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 3: in this environment where perhaps there's fewer to choose from.

660
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 3: What sort of growth do you want to see from companies?

661
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 3: Is it all about annual recovering revenues? Is it about

662
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,959
Speaker 3: being able to retrench on spending and ensure they're focused

663
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 3: on the bottom line?

664
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 5: Is there a rule of thumb here?

665
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 12: Yes, it's a great question. Very timely question. I think

666
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 12: what we've seen in the market is, you know, a

667
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 12: couple of years ago, topline momentum was really the primary

668
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 12: thing that investors were paying attention to in the venture space,

669
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 12: and I think that has really shifted to thinking more

670
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 12: about effhisient growth. What is the investment required to drive

671
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,719
Speaker 12: that that topline momentum, And that's where really where Apolo

672
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 12: really stands out. When you look at their efficient growth metrics,

673
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 12: metrics like rule of forty, they're really best in class

674
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 12: and that's what got us so excited about making the investment.

675
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 6: Tim, what I find interesting about your company is you're

676
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 6: based here in San Francisco, but you are remote first.

677
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 6: It's a topic we've discussed in the show quite a

678
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 6: lot recently. Just explain your thesis of why that's the

679
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 6: best way to work.

680
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely.

681
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 13: I mean, there's so much talent all around the world,

682
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 13: and we definitely just want the best access to talent.

683
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 4: Regardless for ever they've located.

684
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 13: Especially you know, there's definitely an exodus of talent from

685
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 13: SF as well. It's still the Bay Area, still the

686
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 13: center of tech, but now great talent is everywhere in

687
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 13: a world.

688
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 4: So really, Mary I.

689
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 6: Know a number of VC board members that don't agree

690
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 6: with that thesis. They want to see their port photo

691
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 6: companies work together, you know, be in one place. What

692
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 6: do you make of the remote work position that Apollo has.

693
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 12: Yeah, you know, I think our view is there's not

694
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 12: one size fit's all answer to that. I think for

695
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 12: every company it's different. And for some companies a distributed

696
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 12: workforce can work really well depending on the nature nature

697
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,479
Speaker 12: of what they do, and for others it's really important

698
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 12: to be es centrally located in one place.

699
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 3: I'm just going to go back to Tim what it

700
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 3: is that you offer. I mean, I think what you're

701
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 3: the first sales tech unicorn minted in twenty twenty three,

702
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 3: and you've been sort of saying what makes you stand out?

703
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,879
Speaker 3: And of course it's about allowing sales reps to do

704
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 3: what exactly that is to sell, to not be having

705
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 3: to permanently moving between tools and having cumbersome interaction with CRM.

706
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 3: But one thing that took my eye was the fact

707
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:32,879
Speaker 3: that you were saying that some of your competitors, dare

708
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 3: I name one of them, zoom Info for example, You

709
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 3: say they seem unified, but they're not because they've acquired.

710
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 3: Does that therefore mean you won't be using funds to

711
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 3: ever acquire other companies?

712
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 4: I'll never see never.

713
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 13: But we're really focused on building the absolute best user

714
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 13: experience for the end user from day one. Our goal

715
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 13: is to build a unified anoline solution from the bottoms

716
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 13: up that is the simplest to use and most successful

717
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 13: to get started, and the most delightful user experience. We're

718
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,280
Speaker 13: now build the most number one rated product for sales.

719
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 13: It's the most loved product, and a lot of that

720
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 13: has been the way that we've architected the product from

721
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 13: from day one.

722
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 6: Mary, on this program, we made the distinction between AI

723
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 6: native and sort of AI adjacent companies, those set to

724
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 6: most benefit from this next generation of artificial intelligence technology.

725
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 6: Does your investment thesis fit that split as well?

726
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 12: Absolutely, although I would frame it differently. I would call

727
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 12: it AI enabled. So Apollo is absolutely an AI company,

728
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 12: but it had an established distribution and product that wasn't

729
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 12: AI native from the start, but it has unique right

730
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 12: embed AI into the product over time.

731
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 3: We want to thank both of you fascinating to be

732
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 3: able to get into the inner workings of what makes

733
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 3: an upround. We congratulated on Apollo Io. Of course, CEO

734
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,879
Speaker 3: Tim Jang and Bain Ventures partner Merret Hammad.

735
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 6: Almart is planning its longest distance drone deliveries yet by

736
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 6: teaming up with Alphabet's Wing unit at two Dallas Areas stores.

737
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 6: The Wing drones will be able to drop off food

738
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,720
Speaker 6: and household essentials as far as six miles from the stores.

739
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 6: Let's bring in Wing CFO Shannon Nashal's here with me

740
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,839
Speaker 6: in San Francisco. There is a caveat, which is that

741
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,760
Speaker 6: a spotter is needed to look out for any aircraft

742
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 6: that can't transmit their location. Just explain that caveat and

743
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 6: how the technology works.

744
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 14: So at Wing, we're actually we have permission from the

745
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 14: FAA to fly what's called beyond the visual line of sight, right,

746
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 14: So for us, we don't have the said spotter that

747
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 14: you're talking about. The way that we operate is we

748
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 14: have somebody and we have pilots that are able to

749
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 14: really look at the area, if you will, in terms

750
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 14: of where our drones are flying as opposed to looking

751
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 14: at I think people think that there's somebody just looking

752
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 14: at the drone and flying and seeing how far I

753
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 14: can go. I've had people say they think there's somebody

754
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 14: with a joystick actually controlling the drone. We're completely autonomous,

755
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 14: and so that's what we're super excited about this opportunity.

756
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 6: You're the CFO of Wing, So I got to ask,

757
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 6: you know, it's two stores, but big stores in Dallas.

758
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 6: How big a deal is this for Wing commercially speaking?

759
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is a This is a huge deal.

760
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 14: Just just take a step back. Wing has operated and

761
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 14: done over three hundred and fifty thousand commercial deliveries and

762
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 14: three continents. This allows us to expand in the US.

763
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 14: With this Walmart partnership, we will be able to reach

764
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 14: sixty over sixty thousand households in the Dallas Fort Worth

765
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 14: area and so this is again just part of our

766
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:40,320
Speaker 14: scaling opportunity and we're super excited to be working with Walmart.

767
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 5: What sort of demand are you seeing?

768
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 3: How many people are wanting to rush to get to

769
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 3: the app to make sure that they can in the

770
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 3: Dallas area receive these sourts of well deliveries that we

771
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 3: just saw on our screen.

772
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 4: Yeah.

773
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:53,760
Speaker 14: So we spend a lot of time working on community

774
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 14: engagement and really and really engaging on the need for

775
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,280
Speaker 14: our services and local area. We've already been operating in Dallas.

776
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 14: We have a partnership with Walgreens, and people have been

777
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 14: asking for us to do more. So we're super excited

778
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,760
Speaker 14: that we're able to come back to the Dallas area.

779
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 14: Not only do more with Walmart, we've expanded our hours

780
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 14: and we'll be able to reach a lot more of

781
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 14: the Dallas Fort Worth area.

782
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 5: And it's interesting.

783
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 3: Medicine medical drone delivery also a focus of yours in Ireland,

784
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 3: for example. I'm really interested though in what this stepping

785
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 3: stone means because sixty thousand, that's a lot of people,

786
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 3: but it's certainly not the millions in the US.

787
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 5: What gets us there?

788
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 3: What's some timeline, What sort of regulatory approval do you

789
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 3: need so that me and New York can also get

790
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 3: it delivered.

791
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 14: I think those are great questions, and we've spent a

792
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 14: lot of time, you know, working with industry partners on

793
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 14: really expanding some of those approvals. I say, I think, look,

794
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 14: the reality is we are.

795
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 4: Partnering with Wallwright.

796
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 14: Now that is the stepping stone to get to what

797
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 14: you're talking about, where this has expanded to the millions.

798
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 14: We think that we are building a safe, liable, efficient

799
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 14: drone delivery system that is capable of getting to those millions,

800
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 14: and so this is the journey that we're taking in

801
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,359
Speaker 14: Walmart is very important to us expanding in that way.

802
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 6: There's this sort of FAA regulation factor that impacts how

803
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 6: quickly you can grow. But there's also different attitudes from

804
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 6: different cities states retailers. Where do you feel like you're

805
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 6: making most progress, Which areas are most supportive to deploying

806
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 6: drone technology.

807
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 14: You know, I think that there's a study that Virginia

808
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 14: Tech did in Christiansburg, Virginia, were actually we are doing

809
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 14: drone delivery, and it showed that almost ninety percent of

810
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 14: those who took that study were very positive about drone

811
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 14: delivery and wanted it to come of their communities. We

812
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 14: even just recently showcased a couple who's in their eighties

813
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 14: who actually have had the most drone deliveries in set

814
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 14: of world record. They've gotten over twelve hundred deliveries in

815
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 14: the last couple of years. And my favorite part of

816
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 14: about their twelve hundred deliveries is they got almost the

817
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 14: one hundred boxes of Girl Scouts delivered to their house.

818
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 14: So we think the demand is there.

819
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 5: That's a brilliant story.

820
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 3: I'm not going to ask how many eggs they got

821
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 3: delivered as well as I know you do that pretty efficiently.

822
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 5: I mean it needs.

823
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 3: Some like power players, some mass adoption and people to

824
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 3: really show how much this works. But ultimately, what are

825
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 3: the things sort of the teething issues in your scaling?

826
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 5: I mean, what about talent? What about bringing in then

827
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 5: know how.

828
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 3: To continue to expand and ensure that this delivery can

829
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 3: happen so succinctly.

830
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 5: Is it something that you think about a lot.

831
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:31,280
Speaker 4: Yeah.

832
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 5: Absolutely.

833
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 14: As most tech companies, innovative companies, you think about attracting

834
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 14: and retaining the best talent out there. I think, look,

835
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 14: we are very fortunate to be a part of Alphabet.

836
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,479
Speaker 14: Alphabet is our parent company, and so I think that

837
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,800
Speaker 14: you know, we continue to attract and try to retain

838
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 14: the best talent out there. I think there's a lot

839
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 14: of opportunities for people looking to get into new industries.

840
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 14: I think drone delivery industry offers a lot of opportunity,

841
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 14: and I think are going to see a lot more

842
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 14: talent coming into the industry.

843
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 6: CFO Shannon, Oh, sorry, carry CEO Shann, Actually I get

844
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 6: excited about drones. You know that I do, and it's

845
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 6: interesting to see and willed real world deployment character.

846
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 4: Yeah.

847
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,399
Speaker 3: I get excited about breaking news as well, ed, which

848
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 3: is entirely why I tried to step on on your

849
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 3: funder there a little bit, because we've got some news

850
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 3: coming from X musks X in fact, we understand is

851
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 3: going to allow political advertising.

852
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 5: The company is saying in a blog post. When you

853
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 5: go to the blog.

854
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 3: Post, it's called supporting People's right to accurate and safe

855
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 3: political discourse on X, and they're really talking about how

856
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,280
Speaker 3: they're currently expanding their safety and elections teams to focus

857
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 3: on combating manipulation, servicing and authentic accounts, and closely.

858
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,760
Speaker 5: Monitoring the platform for emerging threats.

859
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 3: But notable ed that they're actually thinking of beeping up

860
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 3: teams in that area after the head count cuts that

861
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:48,720
Speaker 3: we've seen in that business.

862
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, look, it starts in the US.

863
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 6: They're going to allow paid for promoted political votes, but

864
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 6: prohibit false or misleading content.

865
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 4: Sounds familiar, that does it?

866
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 3: In this addition of believe their technology. Tomorrow, we've got

867
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 3: a big one. Michael Sonershine is going to be from

868
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 3: Graysale CEO, joining at ten thirty am on that landmark

869
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:05,800
Speaker 3: ruling the head.

870
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 6: Yeah recap with the podcast wherever you get your podcasts, Apples, Spotify,

871
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 6: and Bloomberg.

872
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 4: This is Bloomberg.