1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,360
Speaker 1: The coin Bureau Podcast is a production of My Heart Radio.

2
00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:07,120
Speaker 1: The metas should be a social experience, So if people

3
00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,319
Speaker 1: can't come and join in when we're doing stuff, then

4
00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:12,080
Speaker 1: it kind of falls down. If it's just a recording

5
00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:14,800
Speaker 1: of an event, No, well it's okay, But like we

6
00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,439
Speaker 1: need to do events where people can be part of it, participate,

7
00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,200
Speaker 1: win prizes, you know, all of that kind of stuff.

8
00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:23,120
Speaker 1: So we have to figure out a lot. Yeah, it's

9
00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:38,000
Speaker 1: quite hard work, it sounds it. Welcome everyone to the

10
00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,040
Speaker 1: coin Bureau Podcast. My name is Guy and I have

11
00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,320
Speaker 1: a very special guest with me today. Now you may

12
00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,280
Speaker 1: have heard me in the past mentioned one of my

13
00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,840
Speaker 1: favorite YouTube channels of all, the Defiant, and we are

14
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:56,040
Speaker 1: very lucky to have today Robin Schmidt, the man, the

15
00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:02,640
Speaker 1: face behind the Defiant. Robin is a content creator extraordinaire.

16
00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:04,720
Speaker 1: The work that he has done not only with The

17
00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,720
Speaker 1: Defiant but is now moving on to do elsewhere is

18
00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,840
Speaker 1: just incredible and very lucky to have him on the

19
00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,600
Speaker 1: line today. So Robin, thank you so much for joining us.

20
00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,039
Speaker 1: Oh that's a very very kind I mean, you probably

21
00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:22,840
Speaker 1: the face behind in front of something, but really taught you.

22
00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,160
Speaker 1: I'm the Assine which which I'm also fine because I

23
00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:28,280
Speaker 1: really did mess about and everything else. But I mean,

24
00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,880
Speaker 1: I would like to say that, um, from one content

25
00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,120
Speaker 1: credit to another, like what you've managed to accomplish with

26
00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,240
Speaker 1: Combia is impressive. I couldn't do what you do and

27
00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:38,160
Speaker 1: I couldn't do it the way that you do it. UM,

28
00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:42,200
Speaker 1: So you know, admiration is mutually my friend. Thank you. Well,

29
00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,000
Speaker 1: I mean right back at you as well, because I

30
00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,960
Speaker 1: remember we've we're we're all big fans of of of

31
00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,080
Speaker 1: the work that you do here. And I remember we've

32
00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,360
Speaker 1: watched so many of your videos and just gone, how

33
00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:57,160
Speaker 1: are they doing that? That's extraordinary? And you know obviously

34
00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:59,080
Speaker 1: because I think, well we'll talk about this in a

35
00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,640
Speaker 1: moment hopefully, but you have, UM, you have a filmmaking background.

36
00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:04,920
Speaker 1: That's been your Is it safe to say that's been

37
00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,880
Speaker 1: your whole career? Yeah, no, that's very safe to say.

38
00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:13,800
Speaker 1: For twenty three years. I think film has been the

39
00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:15,480
Speaker 1: love of my life. It was the thing I grew

40
00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:17,600
Speaker 1: up on and it was the thing that I thought

41
00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,480
Speaker 1: wasn't for me when I was growing up because I

42
00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:24,120
Speaker 1: was a musician. Originally I played the violin, the piano,

43
00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,720
Speaker 1: I led orchestras, and I was a singer of chorister

44
00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:30,200
Speaker 1: in Westminster Cathedral, one of the foremost boys choirs in

45
00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,000
Speaker 1: the world. So that was the training that I had.

46
00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,360
Speaker 1: And then around about the age of sixteen seventeen, I

47
00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:37,840
Speaker 1: realized that I just had enough of it. I've been

48
00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:42,200
Speaker 1: performing in front of audiences up until that point, and

49
00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,880
Speaker 1: I just hadn't ever met a girl, and I hadn't

50
00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:47,960
Speaker 1: done sports and all these things that were just like,

51
00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,400
Speaker 1: I want to do that. And I also realized that

52
00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:52,919
Speaker 1: like the world of classical music was just not where

53
00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,560
Speaker 1: I wanted to go, and the film just seemed completely remote.

54
00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,560
Speaker 1: It seemed the thing that other people did, very expensive,

55
00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,280
Speaker 1: very difficult to break into. But it just the thing

56
00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:02,240
Speaker 1: that I was determined I was going to get into.

57
00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,919
Speaker 1: And basically I became a content creator using the same

58
00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,600
Speaker 1: tools and things that people use now. Just back in

59
00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,200
Speaker 1: the days when it was Mac cos nine and you

60
00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:14,600
Speaker 1: had a little DV camcorder that you plug into an

61
00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,560
Speaker 1: iMac and that was how you record video. But fast

62
00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:19,840
Speaker 1: forward to where we are now, and yeah, I've spent

63
00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,840
Speaker 1: a long time looking at stuff through a lens and

64
00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:25,680
Speaker 1: then editing it in such a way as to make

65
00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:27,799
Speaker 1: it entertaining, so you pick up a few tricks along

66
00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:31,240
Speaker 1: the way, that's for sure. Yeah, and and so how

67
00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,240
Speaker 1: did you how did you kind of make the move

68
00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:37,040
Speaker 1: from from filmmaking, How did you how did you discover crypto?

69
00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,200
Speaker 1: How did you get to the defiance as it were?

70
00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,600
Speaker 1: It's a really sad story, right. There's there's this phrase

71
00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:49,280
Speaker 1: which is nothing is more destructive than mediocrity. And I

72
00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:50,680
Speaker 1: know it's kind of a weird thing to say, but

73
00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:54,080
Speaker 1: like I was moderately successful for most of my career.

74
00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:56,720
Speaker 1: You get these little moments where you're like, I'm about

75
00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,680
Speaker 1: to break out and I'm about to be successful. And

76
00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,840
Speaker 1: I never maximized those moments for various different reasons. I

77
00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,320
Speaker 1: think one of it was a little bit to do

78
00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,960
Speaker 1: with fear not trusting that I was good enough because

79
00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:09,600
Speaker 1: the thing, like I said, I think I'm really really

80
00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:13,360
Speaker 1: good at his music, but I don't do music. And

81
00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,320
Speaker 1: it's weird because that's the thing that I naturally am

82
00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,080
Speaker 1: the best at, but I don't do it. I do

83
00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:21,400
Speaker 1: film instead. So there's always been this feeling of imposter

84
00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,040
Speaker 1: syndrome when it comes to film, that it's someone else

85
00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:25,839
Speaker 1: is much better than me, and I'm simply meaning on

86
00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,200
Speaker 1: this thing that I had and using it for film.

87
00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,960
Speaker 1: And so all these little kind of periods in my

88
00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,640
Speaker 1: life where I won awards and I started to get openings,

89
00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:37,800
Speaker 1: you know, into bigger productions everything else, I kind of

90
00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,480
Speaker 1: fudged them. The last one I had was about ten

91
00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,720
Speaker 1: years ago where we suddenly blew up went viral and

92
00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,279
Speaker 1: we were making silly music video skits around the plot

93
00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,200
Speaker 1: of east Enders. So we take the plot of east

94
00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,600
Speaker 1: Enders that week and then in like turn into a

95
00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,240
Speaker 1: rap song, shoot the rap video, but do it like

96
00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,160
Speaker 1: to make it look like the original, so we do

97
00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,080
Speaker 1: like pop it like it's heart and it'd be and

98
00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,280
Speaker 1: why being a studio and like, but it was the

99
00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,200
Speaker 1: plot of EastEnders, and we got featured on radio while

100
00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,359
Speaker 1: we got featured on Fern Cotton if you know Fern Cotton,

101
00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,919
Speaker 1: Ferns the one um. But playing music videos on the

102
00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,520
Speaker 1: radio is so bizarre. And Saturday of this blew up.

103
00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:17,880
Speaker 1: But I just had my first child. I'd also just

104
00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,599
Speaker 1: shot a feature film, and so my wife was like,

105
00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:23,840
Speaker 1: it's time for you to kind of be a dad

106
00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:25,839
Speaker 1: and a husband and like probably be at home. So

107
00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,800
Speaker 1: I just kind of stopped and I moved to Holland

108
00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:31,520
Speaker 1: with my wife, and I was doing really well as

109
00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:35,640
Speaker 1: a commercials director. But I was shooting vacuum cleaners and

110
00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,760
Speaker 1: coffee cups and like plenty of budget everything else. But

111
00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,520
Speaker 1: I was just so bored and starting to really get

112
00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:44,200
Speaker 1: to that point where like you reached a certain age

113
00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,279
Speaker 1: and like I should be more successful than this. I

114
00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:50,160
Speaker 1: believe I'm better than this. What has gone wrong? And

115
00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,600
Speaker 1: I was just poor, broke and just trying to figure

116
00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:54,880
Speaker 1: out what to do in my life. And I was like, well,

117
00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:56,480
Speaker 1: what I need to do is I need to completely

118
00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:01,120
Speaker 1: reinvent myself and shoot a completely new bunch of work

119
00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,640
Speaker 1: because the word that I've done but previously doesn't represent me.

120
00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,480
Speaker 1: It's not honest, and I need to show what I

121
00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,240
Speaker 1: can do. But problem is, filmmaking is expensive. So I

122
00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,440
Speaker 1: thought I need to find a way to solve the

123
00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,320
Speaker 1: problem of money, because I thought not having any money

124
00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,480
Speaker 1: was my problem. What I have come to realize through

125
00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,120
Speaker 1: crypto is that money itself is the problem. But that's

126
00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,760
Speaker 1: a whole other story. But it was just a random

127
00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,560
Speaker 1: discussion with my boss on the way down to a

128
00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,200
Speaker 1: shoot in Belgium where he was talking about this cryptocurrency

129
00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,240
Speaker 1: the board. He was like, oh my god, look it's gone.

130
00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:35,040
Speaker 1: Whoa Jesus. I was like, cryptocurrency? What is that? And

131
00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,240
Speaker 1: then then that was early two thousand and seventeen, that

132
00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,320
Speaker 1: cryptocurrency was eight and he was basically able to pay

133
00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:41,919
Speaker 1: off his entire mortgage. And I was like, well that

134
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,279
Speaker 1: sounds like fun. Let's see what this is all about.

135
00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,520
Speaker 1: Fell down the rabbit hole of that and just kind

136
00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,400
Speaker 1: of looked at it and said this, this entire industry

137
00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,359
Speaker 1: is It is about storytelling. Everything is a story that

138
00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:59,320
Speaker 1: one person tells another in this very kind of linear fashion.

139
00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,120
Speaker 1: It's oral storytelling. Someone on Twitter says, oh, this is

140
00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,320
Speaker 1: going to go up, this is going to do this,

141
00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,200
Speaker 1: and everyone just buys it or figures out their own

142
00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,600
Speaker 1: version of that story, or they tell themselves the story,

143
00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,240
Speaker 1: which is I have done a good thing here. I

144
00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,120
Speaker 1: have bought this token and it will make me rich,

145
00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,720
Speaker 1: or I'm absolutely sure that this is a good investment

146
00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,520
Speaker 1: because this guy told me so, or you know, I

147
00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:23,360
Speaker 1: have done my homework because I have learned how to

148
00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:25,760
Speaker 1: be an analyst, and therefore this is a good investment.

149
00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,880
Speaker 1: We're all just telling stories. The Friends Center, So, well,

150
00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:33,240
Speaker 1: what I was also really kind of kind of I

151
00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,520
Speaker 1: found really weird was that no projects were any good

152
00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:37,840
Speaker 1: at telling their own story, and that's probably because they

153
00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:39,400
Speaker 1: didn't even know what that story was. If you're a

154
00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,480
Speaker 1: layer one, you literally are everything. You're just a blank

155
00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:46,120
Speaker 1: piece of paper essentially on which you can do anything with.

156
00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,360
Speaker 1: So how do you tell that story? So it's very,

157
00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,360
Speaker 1: very slowly I started to get to a position was like, well,

158
00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,760
Speaker 1: I know enough about this space where maybe there's a

159
00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,040
Speaker 1: room for someone like me to tell these kinds of stories.

160
00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,680
Speaker 1: And the rest was who would I do it with?

161
00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:01,920
Speaker 1: Where would I do it? So I was still working

162
00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,840
Speaker 1: shooting commercials at this point and just just having all

163
00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:09,000
Speaker 1: the creativity just bled out of me because like it's

164
00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:13,240
Speaker 1: particularly in bene Lux, like bene Lux's Belgium, Holland Luxembourg,

165
00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,680
Speaker 1: it's just boring. Everything is like we have to run

166
00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:19,880
Speaker 1: this decision via the team in Germany. I actually know

167
00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:21,600
Speaker 1: we have to run this decision by the team in China.

168
00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,120
Speaker 1: It's like why, like why why why can people in

169
00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,800
Speaker 1: China not see trees out of their windows? Well, because

170
00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:29,360
Speaker 1: there are no trees in China, but that's not true.

171
00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,080
Speaker 1: There are cheese. But this is an air filter product.

172
00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,960
Speaker 1: So you're imagine someone living in a fifty you know,

173
00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,720
Speaker 1: fifty story high block of flats. They don't see trees,

174
00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,199
Speaker 1: so they cannot be trees outside the window. I was like, okay, sure,

175
00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:44,320
Speaker 1: so there's the kind of battleity fighting it, and that's

176
00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:45,800
Speaker 1: that's why I was just like, I need to do

177
00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:49,760
Speaker 1: something different. And this opportunity came up to go and

178
00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:51,880
Speaker 1: meet the team at Harmony because I had invested in

179
00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,120
Speaker 1: them and had a chance to go through a syndicate

180
00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,160
Speaker 1: to invest in them. And I went to meet them

181
00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,720
Speaker 1: just on a whim, paying my flights out there, and

182
00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:01,719
Speaker 1: then pitched them an idea for a documentary, which is

183
00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:07,800
Speaker 1: to essentially take what is good about blockchain and get

184
00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:09,280
Speaker 1: it in front of an audience that didn't know anything

185
00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:11,880
Speaker 1: about blockchain. This is two thousand and eighteen. I pitched

186
00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,439
Speaker 1: this and it was It was basically one of those

187
00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,120
Speaker 1: crazy ideas where I wanted to see if we expose

188
00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:21,480
Speaker 1: the ideas of blockchain through pop culture through doing something insane.

189
00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,360
Speaker 1: And the idea was, how could we incentivize people to

190
00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,720
Speaker 1: not use Facebook and WhatsApp for an entire weekend and

191
00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:29,760
Speaker 1: how can we then pay them back the money they

192
00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,400
Speaker 1: would have made for you know, in terms of the

193
00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,000
Speaker 1: data they would have generated for the platforms. We will

194
00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,280
Speaker 1: return that value to them through Harmony tokens and then

195
00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:40,960
Speaker 1: maybe they can stay those tokens, maybe they can exchange them,

196
00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:42,640
Speaker 1: but at least get them into people's hands in a

197
00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:46,000
Speaker 1: way that was kind of positive. And then it was like, well,

198
00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:48,120
Speaker 1: if we're getting people just to step off Facebook for

199
00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,240
Speaker 1: a weekend, what does that time look like? What are

200
00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:51,640
Speaker 1: they going to do with that time? Well, you know,

201
00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:53,800
Speaker 1: can we put on a festival? Those kind of things.

202
00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:55,400
Speaker 1: That was sort of the idea, and it was going

203
00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,240
Speaker 1: to be this big, kind of tilted a windmill to

204
00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:00,439
Speaker 1: see if we can make something happen. We weren't able

205
00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,280
Speaker 1: to make that happen. But what it did do is

206
00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,120
Speaker 1: it got me a job with Harmony as their creative director.

207
00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,000
Speaker 1: And even then I wasn't making films, it wasn't making videos.

208
00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,000
Speaker 1: And about four months into that job, I realized that

209
00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,680
Speaker 1: I missed making films so much that I was like,

210
00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,599
Speaker 1: I need to offer this up to Harmony as a

211
00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:19,840
Speaker 1: thing I can do in my role as credive director

212
00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:22,439
Speaker 1: and start telling their story. And then that's how we

213
00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:26,520
Speaker 1: sort of got into making YouTube videos for Harmony as

214
00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:30,640
Speaker 1: a really tough time. Oh my god, it was. It

215
00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:37,080
Speaker 1: was tough because making videos for a project is tough anyway,

216
00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,800
Speaker 1: because things moved quite slowly, but the audiences expectations move

217
00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,240
Speaker 1: very quickly, so they always want something new, and if

218
00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,600
Speaker 1: there isn't anything new, then you're kind of fidgeting around

219
00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:47,439
Speaker 1: trying to tell the story of maybe there's a project

220
00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,400
Speaker 1: that's building on it, maybe there's a new kind of

221
00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,000
Speaker 1: piece of tech. But on these remote layer ones like

222
00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:54,880
Speaker 1: Harmony was, there's not a lot being built, and it's

223
00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,040
Speaker 1: hard to get excited about a little bot, but we

224
00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,600
Speaker 1: tried to make it fun and creative. The other problem

225
00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,560
Speaker 1: was that Harmony had launched on Binance. It was one

226
00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:04,920
Speaker 1: of the first Binance I e O s that went

227
00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,840
Speaker 1: on the Binance decks, and there was just such a

228
00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,760
Speaker 1: bad smell about all of it. A lot of investors

229
00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,400
Speaker 1: got very badly burned by the performance of that token

230
00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,800
Speaker 1: and the promises that were made by that token, and

231
00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,880
Speaker 1: it just looked bad. And then we just got slaughtered

232
00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,760
Speaker 1: by the community and fighting our way back from that.

233
00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,080
Speaker 1: We're super tough because like everything you did was just

234
00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:30,840
Speaker 1: like no, you guys are scammers. Your scammers, your scammers,

235
00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,240
Speaker 1: you scamras, scamras, scamras, scammeras, and like whatever you try

236
00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,360
Speaker 1: to do, put the CEO in front of the camera,

237
00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,240
Speaker 1: try and tell the positive story. Yeah, it didn't didn't work.

238
00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,240
Speaker 1: So um, we guysally got to the kind of Defy

239
00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,160
Speaker 1: summer phase of things, and I realized that Harmony probably

240
00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,400
Speaker 1: wouldn't have enough to kind of attract this kind of

241
00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,520
Speaker 1: Defy that was out there. But DeFi was the big story,

242
00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,640
Speaker 1: as you remember, So I thought, instead of us having

243
00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:54,560
Speaker 1: a product, maybe we could tell the story ourselves and

244
00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,520
Speaker 1: tell it in a really interesting and weird way. So

245
00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,439
Speaker 1: I reached out to the two defined us that is

246
00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,280
Speaker 1: that I knew, which was Bankless and the Defiant, and

247
00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:07,000
Speaker 1: they already interviewed Camilla away back and I went down

248
00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:09,760
Speaker 1: a certain way with Ryan Shawn Adams and then he

249
00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,199
Speaker 1: ghosted me. So I and well, you know, maybe we

250
00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,679
Speaker 1: should just shoot some videos with the Definer because that

251
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,360
Speaker 1: seems to be a more positive place. Kamilla said yes,

252
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,280
Speaker 1: So then we did this co production. Then we started

253
00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:21,319
Speaker 1: doing a weekly video where we would just tell the

254
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:25,079
Speaker 1: story of Defy. What's going on Wifie all these different things,

255
00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:27,840
Speaker 1: um and that was a weekly thing and it did

256
00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:29,480
Speaker 1: really well, and then she offered me a job and

257
00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:31,760
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, maybe this is what I should

258
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:33,920
Speaker 1: be doing. And that's when we started building the defined

259
00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,959
Speaker 1: YouTube channel and grew it too. I think a hundred

260
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,720
Speaker 1: and seventeen thousand subscribers in about fifteen months, so not

261
00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,360
Speaker 1: too shabby, not too shabby at all. It was. It's

262
00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:48,079
Speaker 1: an extraordinary channel. And I mean, just just going back

263
00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,600
Speaker 1: to what you were saying about this idea of you know,

264
00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:54,880
Speaker 1: feeling kind of creatively upper cul de sac, I guess

265
00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:58,319
Speaker 1: when not being able to show a Chinese audience trees.

266
00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,240
Speaker 1: I mean watching thinking back to thinking back to so

267
00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:03,240
Speaker 1: many of the videos that you made with a defiance

268
00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,120
Speaker 1: that that just seems the whole thing just seems to

269
00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:10,679
Speaker 1: be like this massive release of creative energy. And it was.

270
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,960
Speaker 1: I mean, it just ticks. It just does so many

271
00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,960
Speaker 1: things so brilliantly. And I mean I think the best

272
00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:21,720
Speaker 1: of your videos were, you know, slightly just an archic

273
00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:25,320
Speaker 1: in a way, like you know, you could you could

274
00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,120
Speaker 1: see like the the ideas Department had just gone just

275
00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,520
Speaker 1: been allowed to go absolutely insane, and so you had

276
00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:35,280
Speaker 1: this kind of anarchism. You had this just boldness of

277
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:37,560
Speaker 1: what you would what you would try. Obviously that the

278
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:41,480
Speaker 1: skills that you and Alp as well just you know,

279
00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:43,440
Speaker 1: brought to the table in terms of in terms of

280
00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:45,280
Speaker 1: what you're able to do with a with a camera,

281
00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,240
Speaker 1: and then on top of it all, it would be

282
00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:53,959
Speaker 1: this incredibly like informative and often like brilliantly opinionated thing

283
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,880
Speaker 1: as well. It was, it was absolutely it was. I mean,

284
00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:00,680
Speaker 1: some of those videos are just just extraordinary. UM And

285
00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,280
Speaker 1: I should say for the audience, I'm for those listening

286
00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,480
Speaker 1: and and watching, I'll I'll leave some links if that's

287
00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:08,760
Speaker 1: okay with you, Robin to to to some of my

288
00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,800
Speaker 1: favorite UM of you know, some of my favorites that

289
00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,400
Speaker 1: you you did with the Defined and in particular I

290
00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,520
Speaker 1: think that the work you did on n f T

291
00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,600
Speaker 1: S um the greatest n f T film ever made.

292
00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:23,200
Speaker 1: And then just this extraordinary light mic drop that you

293
00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,840
Speaker 1: did with um Why Gamers Hate n f T S

294
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,320
Speaker 1: the two part, which I watched again the other day

295
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,320
Speaker 1: whilst I was, you know, whilst I was kind of

296
00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:37,440
Speaker 1: gearing up for this is extraordinary, Like what you were

297
00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,520
Speaker 1: able to, what you're able to achieve and I remember

298
00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:42,880
Speaker 1: sort of me and my a lot of my colleagues

299
00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:47,280
Speaker 1: here at you know, coinbea just sitting around and going, wow, okay,

300
00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:51,240
Speaker 1: uh so the bar has the bar has been raised

301
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,720
Speaker 1: quite quite high. And it really and I think, you know,

302
00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,800
Speaker 1: it's it's a it's from from from my point of view,

303
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,080
Speaker 1: was kind of exhilarating and also a bit scary at

304
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,720
Speaker 1: the same time, because you you suddenly see the bar

305
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,800
Speaker 1: being raised this high and you're like, wow, this this

306
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:13,040
Speaker 1: has come such a long way since a guy, you know,

307
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,560
Speaker 1: since dudes just with a webcam kind of mounted awkwardly

308
00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:18,720
Speaker 1: on top of their monitor, just kind of yelling into

309
00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:23,560
Speaker 1: that with half their face showing. And suddenly here we

310
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,560
Speaker 1: are with these really you know, amazingly kind of high

311
00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:32,040
Speaker 1: concept movies in a way. But yeah, it's that's it

312
00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,200
Speaker 1: was just such a such a such a glorious thing

313
00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,240
Speaker 1: to watch. But also, you know, crucially, and I go

314
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:38,880
Speaker 1: back to what I said about, you know, the informative

315
00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,800
Speaker 1: nature of it, Like you seem to you seem to

316
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,200
Speaker 1: be able to not lose sight of the fact that, okay,

317
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,360
Speaker 1: this is this is great entertainment. But you've got it,

318
00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,200
Speaker 1: as you say, you've got to tell a story. You've

319
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,960
Speaker 1: got to you've got to shed light on this project.

320
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:56,760
Speaker 1: And and of course defy itself is such as such

321
00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,520
Speaker 1: a dense topic. I mean, it's one of the ones

322
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,800
Speaker 1: that it's one of the Narlie Yeah, it is. And

323
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,000
Speaker 1: to try and try and explain that to you know,

324
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:07,920
Speaker 1: someone who who might be coming to it for the

325
00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,280
Speaker 1: first time is is so tricky. It really it really

326
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,000
Speaker 1: keeps you on your toes. Did you, I mean, how

327
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:17,880
Speaker 1: how easy was what was the I guess what was

328
00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,640
Speaker 1: the easiest part of all that for you? No, what's

329
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,120
Speaker 1: the easiest part. But I think probably what we should

330
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:29,120
Speaker 1: say here is that my background. Yes, I'm a filmmaker,

331
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,920
Speaker 1: but I'm also I've always been a multi hyphen it

332
00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,920
Speaker 1: so I was always picking up a camera, trying to

333
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,080
Speaker 1: understand how to use it, learning about lenses, learning about

334
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,800
Speaker 1: specifics of you know, lighting has actually been one of

335
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,000
Speaker 1: the latest skills that I learned. But I was always

336
00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,440
Speaker 1: shooting my own stuff and editing my own stuff and

337
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,120
Speaker 1: then writing on top of that. But I also you know,

338
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,800
Speaker 1: I read English at university and a lot of that

339
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:56,480
Speaker 1: is to do with like just hardcore research. You just

340
00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,160
Speaker 1: read a lot, so I sort of had these background

341
00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,040
Speaker 1: skill sets that were setting me up for that. That's

342
00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:03,800
Speaker 1: that's sort of sitting in the background. And I've done

343
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,520
Speaker 1: a lot of filming and lots of different types of situations,

344
00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:11,280
Speaker 1: particularly music videos or I've directed a feature film, so

345
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:13,400
Speaker 1: I kind of understand the different ways that you can

346
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,919
Speaker 1: tell a story and lenses can do certain things to

347
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,280
Speaker 1: be you know, we're shooting this on seventy at the moment,

348
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,920
Speaker 1: but it's like it's quite tight, it's quite photographic and nice,

349
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:25,720
Speaker 1: but you can shoot things on wide lenses and suddenly

350
00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:27,639
Speaker 1: they become more cartoony in with There's a lot of

351
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,600
Speaker 1: versatility in terms of what a camera can do that

352
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,800
Speaker 1: people don't really exploit when they're shooting beautube videos, and

353
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:35,840
Speaker 1: that's a shame because it's a storytelling tool at the

354
00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,080
Speaker 1: end of the day. So you learn all these tricks.

355
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,000
Speaker 1: You know, how to tell a story in a different way,

356
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,719
Speaker 1: why you use handheld, why you'd use a moving camera.

357
00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:44,879
Speaker 1: And we've done a lot of kind of tabletop product

358
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,919
Speaker 1: photography type stuff where it just looks really expensive, but

359
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,159
Speaker 1: like it's just a thing on a mirror with a

360
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:52,840
Speaker 1: couple of nice lights, and that's it. It's very very

361
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,840
Speaker 1: simple to do. But that's that all feeds into it.

362
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,440
Speaker 1: So when you're asking me what's the easiest part of it, Honestly,

363
00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:02,560
Speaker 1: making films is the easiest part for me because like

364
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:04,960
Speaker 1: that's what I've done my whole life. And I sort

365
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,080
Speaker 1: of funny for me hearing you looking to go, oh,

366
00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:09,560
Speaker 1: ship the bar is raised. But like in the world

367
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,920
Speaker 1: that I come from, that's normal. That's just the way

368
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,080
Speaker 1: we do things. Um. But I realized then that I've

369
00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,080
Speaker 1: spent a long time just making that normal and getting

370
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,239
Speaker 1: my ten thos in so that I can pick up,

371
00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:25,919
Speaker 1: you know, put something in the script and know that

372
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:27,480
Speaker 1: even if you've only got two hours to shoot it,

373
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:28,960
Speaker 1: we can still get it done because we know what

374
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,359
Speaker 1: the solution is. Whereas for a lot of people like

375
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,120
Speaker 1: just figuring out, oh, you need to put the light

376
00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,359
Speaker 1: here or that won't work because of this, like you

377
00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:37,960
Speaker 1: just kind of know that already. That's the easy bit.

378
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,359
Speaker 1: The harbit for me in terms of all of this

379
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,920
Speaker 1: is well, the couple of bits. One, like you said,

380
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,480
Speaker 1: understanding defy and understanding where all the information was in

381
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,320
Speaker 1: defy was a thing. But again, if you're in the

382
00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:52,359
Speaker 1: right telegram groups through in the right disco groups, you

383
00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,920
Speaker 1: can get that information that The next bit was just

384
00:18:55,800 --> 00:19:02,280
Speaker 1: probably trying to figure out like when enough goofing around

385
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:06,280
Speaker 1: was enough. I was always right, just I wanted to

386
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,240
Speaker 1: make stuff that I wanted to make, and like we'd

387
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,639
Speaker 1: always come up with a story for the week, and

388
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,240
Speaker 1: I'd be like, well, this is the story, and maybe

389
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,320
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna use tomatoes this week. I'm just gonna

390
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,560
Speaker 1: tell them like I did the video on the Merge.

391
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:19,080
Speaker 1: I was just like, I just had this vision in

392
00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,399
Speaker 1: my head of tomatoes, and I think it's because the

393
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,680
Speaker 1: merge in my head was these two things squashing together.

394
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,520
Speaker 1: I was like, that feels like tomatoes soup. It's like

395
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:28,439
Speaker 1: blending tomatoes soups. So like, why don't we just use

396
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:30,960
Speaker 1: tomatoes as a metaphor for all this? And that's a

397
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,280
Speaker 1: really important point because, as you know full well, the

398
00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:39,280
Speaker 1: only visuals you get when talking about this business our websites.

399
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,159
Speaker 1: So you do screen grabs of websites, and you do

400
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,000
Speaker 1: screen grabs of Twitter accounts. That's it, and I get

401
00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,480
Speaker 1: so stale so quickly, So trying to find other ways

402
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:50,760
Speaker 1: of telling these stories and maybe I'll do a music

403
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,560
Speaker 1: video this week or maybe I'll do something else like.

404
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:57,240
Speaker 1: That's how I kept it interesting for me. I'm just

405
00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,320
Speaker 1: trying to find these weird visual gags and that. You know,

406
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 1: it got to a point when we were producing six

407
00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,200
Speaker 1: or seven videos a week where I could only put

408
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,320
Speaker 1: that into like the first minute of the video. But

409
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,600
Speaker 1: that first minute was always the most worthwhile bit, and

410
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,199
Speaker 1: it gave you the springboard to make, you know, the

411
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:15,400
Speaker 1: twenty five minute video that followed something at least um.

412
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,360
Speaker 1: But yeah, that that that was some of the gold.

413
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,400
Speaker 1: Particularly difficult when we'll be putting a video out on Monday, Tuesday,

414
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,000
Speaker 1: Wednesday to on Thursday, live stream on Thursday, as well

415
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,560
Speaker 1: as one on Friday. Yeah, that was a lot. That

416
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,199
Speaker 1: was a lot. Yeah, And and that's that was That

417
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,320
Speaker 1: was something I wanted to ask you as well, because

418
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,920
Speaker 1: obviously from you know, from a filmmaking background, you're you're

419
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,280
Speaker 1: used to, I guess to deadlines, You're used to things,

420
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,199
Speaker 1: you know, being you used to having to run a

421
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,280
Speaker 1: kind of tight ship to get things done on time

422
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,080
Speaker 1: and keep things within budget and all that sort of stuff.

423
00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,960
Speaker 1: Did but I mean, how did you how did you

424
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,560
Speaker 1: cope with that sort of that kind of growing demand,

425
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,919
Speaker 1: because I guess, I guess because as we've you know,

426
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,320
Speaker 1: as as as me and the guys here have sort

427
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:58,520
Speaker 1: of gone along with coin beer. I mean, for instance,

428
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:03,480
Speaker 1: I remember reading reading a comment ages ago, now is

429
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,440
Speaker 1: when we were still you know, when we were still

430
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 1: like in the maybe tens of thousands of subscribers, and

431
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,359
Speaker 1: we couldn't get a video out on our kind of

432
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,240
Speaker 1: regular day because either I'd had the either I'd been ill,

433
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,159
Speaker 1: or I think actually it might have been just everything

434
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,919
Speaker 1: had gone wrong because none of us were none of

435
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,919
Speaker 1: us were filmmakers here, So the the the amount of

436
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,359
Speaker 1: footage that just sort of never got recorded because the

437
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,119
Speaker 1: camera was the camera battery had run out half an

438
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 1: hour ago or something like that. But I mean, I'm

439
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:35,880
Speaker 1: sure this is all stuff that you went through many

440
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 1: many years ago. But I remember just reading this comment.

441
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,920
Speaker 1: We eventually got the video out like twenty four hours later,

442
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:43,639
Speaker 1: and it was it was fine, like you know, everything

443
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 1: was everything was cool. But I remember reading this comment

444
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 1: from someone um and seeing a couple more like it

445
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 1: along the lines of like, oh hey guy, UM, great

446
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 1: to see, great to see you got your got the video.

447
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,359
Speaker 1: I'd wonder, I wondered where you've got to yesterday, and

448
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 1: I just remember thinking, it's, oh my god, who just

449
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,439
Speaker 1: we're just kind of locked in this now, you know,

450
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,360
Speaker 1: And and it's it's great, it's it's it's amazing, it's

451
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 1: you know, it's the best job in the world. But

452
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:10,679
Speaker 1: it's still it. Suddenly you have that you feel that

453
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 1: responsibility you have you know, you have to keep pushing forward.

454
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 1: And YouTube is all about it's all about growth, it's

455
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,199
Speaker 1: all about eyeballs, it's a it's about you know, you

456
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 1: can't stand still. Did I mean did that kind of

457
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 1: did that take you by surprise at all? Or was

458
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 1: it was it something you were kind of already familiar

459
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:33,120
Speaker 1: with from from making films outside of YouTube. Yeah, it's

460
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,920
Speaker 1: so much time pack there's I mean, the financial reality

461
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 1: of it was one was the year that you signed

462
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 1: sponsors and you rent the sponsorship money as much as

463
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,160
Speaker 1: you could because people were cash rich and ready to spend,

464
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,400
Speaker 1: and they wanted to spend on a niche channel within

465
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,439
Speaker 1: a niche industry, which was what we were. So we

466
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,400
Speaker 1: just put out more videos and attached more sponsorship to them.

467
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 1: I mean, that's basically the way it work. Way it worked.

468
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,680
Speaker 1: And also because the La Chryptim moves so quickly. The

469
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,680
Speaker 1: story changes every twenty four hours. So if you can

470
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 1: stay on that and become a kind of regular habit

471
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,679
Speaker 1: for people, it's quite important. The problem is then that

472
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:09,719
Speaker 1: you and then a regular habit for people, and if

473
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,679
Speaker 1: you don't show up, it's problematic. We never didn't show up,

474
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 1: but that's something I'm really proud of. We always put

475
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 1: a video out and you should see some of the

476
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:20,400
Speaker 1: stuff that we had to do. Like we would get

477
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 1: to Friday a lunchtime having shot, you know, a thirty

478
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 1: minute video, and then we'd have to deliver it at

479
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,200
Speaker 1: five o'clock, and we did because we had to output

480
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: take half of it. I would take the other half.

481
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 1: We would just blitz it. And it's amazing what you

482
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 1: can accomplish if that time pressure is there. And one

483
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 1: of the things I was very very clear about was

484
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:48,400
Speaker 1: if for whatever reason, then the imperative to deliver forces

485
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 1: us to work beyond the normal working hours of the day,

486
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:56,199
Speaker 1: it's over because you do that once it becomes twice,

487
00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 1: becomes three times, and then your capacity to absorb all

488
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,360
Speaker 1: of that it goes away. You're it's it's never gonna last.

489
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 1: So I was always very clear that working hours and

490
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 1: working hours, and if we cannot deliver the video within

491
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 1: working hours, and something's gone wrong and we need to

492
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 1: do a better job. So it was always delivered within

493
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 1: those parameters. And then go home and sleep and rest

494
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,160
Speaker 1: and and make it, you know, make it not become

495
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 1: a thing where you're resenting it because you're working late,

496
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 1: and then like the comments, you know there we we

497
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,439
Speaker 1: should spare moments to talk about the comments. I I

498
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 1: think from probably February last year, maybe March, until I

499
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,439
Speaker 1: left the defined didn't read the comments anymore. I just

500
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 1: stopped um because I realized that I was starting to

501
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,120
Speaker 1: become that thing where you're trying to make the content

502
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 1: for your audience, and I don't think that's the way

503
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 1: you've got to do it. There was a reason you're

504
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,199
Speaker 1: audience stuck around, particularly during the bear market, and if

505
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,199
Speaker 1: you change that, then it's gone wrong. So but it

506
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 1: was also the comments got really nasty at a certain point,

507
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,120
Speaker 1: and it's we're and how like I am? Now I'm

508
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,919
Speaker 1: now dealing with someone who's trolling me on on Twitter,

509
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 1: who seems to have a real problem for me and

510
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 1: seems to know not only where I live, but also

511
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 1: where my kids go to school. It's a problem. Geez, yeah,

512
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 1: it's a problem. So I'm like yeah, so I'm I'm

513
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 1: I'm like what. There's a part of me that's like,

514
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: why do I want to go back into this pit

515
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: and do this again? Because I left for like, I'm

516
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: a pretty mentally strong person. I can deal with a lot.

517
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,439
Speaker 1: I can I can put up with a lot. But

518
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 1: this got me, and it got me because we um

519
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 1: that film a lot of the line goes up by

520
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,360
Speaker 1: Dan Olson that came out last year, massive kind of

521
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 1: excoriating diet tribe against n f t s in which

522
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: there were many good points, but one of the things

523
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 1: he he did was he made us pointed out my

524
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 1: boss Camillariso and quarter of Feil journalist and called her

525
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: book an abortion of a book. And I was like,

526
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: we can't let that stand. So I wrote, I made

527
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: a video and it was a bit of a hot take,

528
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 1: released it, posted it on his channel in response, and

529
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 1: then and then they came brandishing their pitchforks and I

530
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: was like, WHOA, what's happened here? And then for the

531
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: next three months they were just like they were they

532
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: were there, and that was that was rough. And then

533
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 1: like the worst thing was in the middle of all

534
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 1: of this, our sponsor was next, so and next, so

535
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: I cannot say anything about next. So other than that,

536
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: for most people, that's problematic. And so I was saying

537
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 1: these sponsorship messages and like, you know, that's sitting there

538
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: in amongst all this other stuff, and like, ah, the optics,

539
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: the optics. So so that that was problematic. So I

540
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 1: just stopped reading the comments at a certain point and like, yeah,

541
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: I gu said, I'm still dealing with someone who keeps

542
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: saying karma is a bit karma is a bit like

543
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 1: karma for what what did I do? It's this extraordinary thing,

544
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 1: isn't it. It's like, you know, you become you become

545
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: the focal point for people, and they project, they project

546
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 1: any sort of disappointments that they may feel or anger,

547
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: you know. And obviously at times like this, when when

548
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: crypto is is a tough place to be at the

549
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: best of times, you know, there's just so much going on.

550
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 1: Obviously we're talking today on a on a day when

551
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: lots of people are you know, speculating about f t

552
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 1: X and the markets are going heywire and all this

553
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: sort of stuff, and it just seems that you're Yeah,

554
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: sometimes it seems that you know, your friendly neighborhood content

555
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: creator is now is now just the target for for

556
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: all sorts of all sorts of vitriol. It's like, how

557
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,199
Speaker 1: do you you know? How well you you and I

558
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: are both grifters. That's that's been adjudicated in the court

559
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: of public opinion. Were grifters? Yeah, plain and simple, just

560
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 1: gotta we just got to own it, haven't we, Robbin,

561
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,239
Speaker 1: There's there's no choice. We're just grifters, you know, I know.

562
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: But but but how how how is it that the

563
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 1: things that are positive about this space are so rapidly

564
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: and easily overlooked easily because yeah, yeah, and easily forgotten.

565
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 1: And then it's just like, oh, no, you're a grifters, Like, well, no,

566
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: I can have an opinion about a thing and and

567
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 1: be concerned about the state of well everything and where

568
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 1: it's going, and you know, be curious about the world.

569
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 1: But anyway, that's I mean, I think that's something that

570
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: people understand, and um, the mental health side of this,

571
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 1: I've never really been that challenged by it, and that

572
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 1: there's a very simple reason for that, which is I

573
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: could leave this space anytime I wanted and go back

574
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: to the world that I was in and have a

575
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: career and glad to be fine. I'm just too curious

576
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: about what's here and too interested in it to to

577
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: do that. And honestly, it boils down to this, I

578
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: can I can be a big fish in a small

579
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:56,959
Speaker 1: pond or a small fish in a big pond, and

580
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: like the opportunity to to create in the world where

581
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: there's no rules yet, when nothing has been set yet,

582
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: where you get to really explore and you can't really

583
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: fail either in the in the world that any of

584
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: this because no one really has the answers yet. That's

585
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: just way more appealing, to be honest. So I'll put

586
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: up with the haters and the you know, the the

587
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: grift abuse, because fundamentally I think there is something interesting here. Yeah,

588
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: it comes with the territory, isn't it. It's an occupation

589
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: or hazard of of doing, of working in a space

590
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: that's you know that there seems to be you know,

591
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: there are there are no rules. It seems a lot

592
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: of the time. You know, you you you have to

593
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,959
Speaker 1: kind of you know, you have to adapt so quickly

594
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: the space itself as you say is changing all the time.

595
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 1: There are there are just so many that the parameters

596
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: just aren't even clear. So yeah, I mean it makes it,

597
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: It makes it an exhilarating place to work in. But

598
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: as you say, there's there's this dark side lurking underneath,

599
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: and unfortunately times like this it seems to it seems

600
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: to rear its head a lot more. What are you

601
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: working on now? What's what's the next what's the next

602
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: step for you? So I was I was thinking about

603
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: where I would go next for some time, and it

604
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: wasn't because the Define was going badly. It was more

605
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 1: if we were going to grow the Defined and I

606
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: would kind of develop a new things like what would

607
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: I want to be doing for the next five years,

608
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: and how would we then bring new people onto the

609
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: team to manage what we had been doing, and then

610
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: I could develop this new thing. And where I was,

611
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 1: where I was leaning was like, you've sort of pointed

612
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: out the fact that I overproduced the videos that we

613
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: put out on YouTube and do all sorts of crazy things.

614
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: I wanted to carry on doing that and and do

615
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: more kind of store rework in and around that, and

616
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: just sort of as it happened during the pandemic, I

617
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: kind of landed on this thing called virtual production, and

618
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: that's basically if you saw the Mandalorian and you saw

619
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: they use unreal engine screens everything else behind, you know,

620
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: to make the bad drops. That's really interesting. And then

621
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: you have these PRPs that grew up, and those could

622
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: also be three D characters and they could live in

623
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: their own worlds. What you're getting too is the metaverse,

624
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: and so there are these two worlds colliding. My interest

625
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: in virtual production using undreun engine to to create worlds

626
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: that I couldn't go and visit or were too expensive

627
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: to go and visit myself. That was really exciting. And

628
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,239
Speaker 1: then just this growing narrative around the metaverse and what

629
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: it was, and so that was kind of where my

630
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: head was at. And then, you know, when the time

631
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: came to move on from the define, it was really

632
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: about what what would I do next? If I was

633
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: going to do YouTube, what would that YouTube channel be about.

634
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: There's a couple of reasons why I wanted to focus

635
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: on the metaverse, and the first one is it's in

636
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: my opinion, going to be the biggest story and technology

637
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: in the next ten years. It's sort of inevitable now.

638
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: I think the the really fun thing about it is

639
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 1: that it sort of touches everything if you think about it,

640
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: is the new version of the Internet. It has a

641
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: place in gaming, of course, it has a place in

642
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 1: VR A r AI, actually everything like. And I look

643
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 1: up with the way my kids play roadblocks and see

644
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: them interacting with other people, thinking about economies, the way

645
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: they want to present themselves in the world, and it

646
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: feels like they're very much ready for the metaverse in

647
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,479
Speaker 1: ways that more grown ups, more grown up people are not.

648
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: And so a lot of the pushback on the METAVERSEI

649
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: people who simply don't think like a ten year old kid,

650
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: and I think more of us should because then we'll

651
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: start to understand, I think, where technology is going and

652
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: where the world is going in that sense. Also, just

653
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: you know, thinking about an iPhone. An iPhone is fundamentally

654
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: a horrific thing for the human being because if you

655
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: think about it, you're hunched over like this, and apparently,

656
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: like the fourth and fifth vertebrae in in young people

657
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: now is so messed up because of just being hunched

658
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: over a phone. The entire anatomy of the species is

659
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: being changed by this piece of technology. I was like,

660
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: this is a bad thing, Like we need to get

661
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: away from that as soon as possible. So I'm sort

662
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: of fascinating the technological side of it because I think

663
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,719
Speaker 1: this piece of technology, the the iPhone format is on

664
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: its way out, So what's going to replace it? And

665
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: you start to get into glasses and all these kind

666
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: of things and wearables, and that's again that plays into

667
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 1: this story of the metaverse. But your nose. I haven't

668
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: mentioned Crypto or web three at any point in this.

669
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: That's also very important to me because, as you know,

670
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: when you're in the cycle, you go up, you go down,

671
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: and then you're down for a really long time, and

672
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: you're apologizing for and defending Crypto in a way because

673
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: you have to. I don't really want to be doing that,

674
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: Like I I still love Crypto, Web three, n f

675
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: t S, and I'm there's still going to be part

676
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: of what I'm doing. But the opportunity to tell our

677
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: larger story that isn't wedded to that, that can be

678
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 1: connected to something very much universal, which is what is

679
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: a human being in a world that is virtual? That's

680
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: a really big question and gives you lots of interesting

681
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 1: stories to tell. So the other thought of it is

682
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: that I probably I am an extremely vain person. I

683
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 1: saw the size of the audience that we were able

684
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: to grow with the defined and I loved it, but

685
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: it's very niche, and I want to see how big

686
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,760
Speaker 1: of an audience I can build outside of that, because

687
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: I think with a big audience you can start to

688
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 1: really do some interesting things and start to do a

689
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 1: lot of the things that I think website and energies

690
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: have hinted at and promised that but have been unable

691
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:47,959
Speaker 1: to do because they can't scale up in the right way.

692
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: So I'm sort of trying to trojan Horse in some

693
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: ideas about n f t s and by what I

694
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 1: want to do with enerties, but through I guess through

695
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: content and telling stories in the metaverse. So that is

696
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: that's basically what basset af is going to be. It's

697
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 1: going to be a metaverse content monster, that's what we

698
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 1: call it. And the style of film we're going to

699
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:11,240
Speaker 1: make is going to be not educational. That's very odd

700
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 1: for people because they've seen me educate them in all

701
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,839
Speaker 1: sorts of weird ways. But no, I'm just going to entertain. Um.

702
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,879
Speaker 1: We're gonna do essentially what Mr Beast would do, which

703
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: is take the most ridiculous idea we can think of,

704
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 1: wrap it around something to do with the metaverse, and

705
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:29,280
Speaker 1: then just push it as humanly far as possible. Um.

706
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,240
Speaker 1: And when I say humanly far as possible, that's very,

707
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: very important because I think there's this vision of the

708
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: metaverse that it's like the end of Wally when you

709
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: see all these fat human beings in the spaceship and

710
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: there's just being whizzed around all over the place, fed

711
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: stuff and given everything. There's a real danger that we

712
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 1: could go that direction. So thinking about the human at

713
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 1: the center of the metaverse experience, thinking about identity, and

714
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: trying to make what we shoot in the metaverse as

715
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 1: physical as possible and give it that physical component, that

716
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 1: human component. That's how I think the metaverse, sorry, will

717
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: get really interesting. If it's just about technology or a

718
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 1: platform like the Other Side or decentral Land, it's dehumanized

719
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: and we need to rehumanize that side of things. Um

720
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: and it you know, it sort of helps and doesn't help.

721
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 1: The Mark Zuckerberg presents like the most advanced Android you've

722
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 1: ever seen, but at the same time, you know underneath

723
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: it all there is. I guess what I'm saying is

724
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: I'm teams Auck. I may not be Team Facebook, but

725
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: I am teams Uck. And I think, having listened to

726
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: a lot of what he's had to say, he may

727
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: be very awkward in expressing it. I kind of see

728
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,720
Speaker 1: where he's going with it. I've also got a quest

729
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: pro now we need it for the first film that

730
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 1: we're doing. Okay, uh, you know, I can't tell any

731
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 1: much about that or why because it's a bit of

732
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 1: a secret moment, but like we need it and we're

733
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: gonna push that thing as far as it goes. But

734
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: you put it on and you start playing around and

735
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: it's like it's not the future, it's the now, but

736
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 1: it points the way towards the future, and you can

737
00:36:57,880 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: kind of see it now. You can kind of see

738
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:06,240
Speaker 1: it with that device. It's like oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

739
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 1: it's like get rid of this, this is gone and

740
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: you're just there and like it's goofy as hell and

741
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: the battery runs out, but you get yeah, it's yeah,

742
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 1: it's pretty good. Wow. So, I mean, I guess, going

743
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: back to what you're saying about about, you know, telling

744
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: sort of human stories, I guess putting a human angle

745
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: on the metaverse, because this seems to be I think

746
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: the stumbling block that that so many people have, and

747
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: I must admit like i've I've I've kind of struggled

748
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: with with the metaverse idea as well from from the

749
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 1: kind of tech perspective, because it's so I don't know,

750
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: it feels sometimes so hard to envision what exactly it's

751
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be, and I don't know, I don't

752
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: know about EU robe and I guess I I guess

753
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 1: the answer to that question is it's not it's not

754
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: yet supposed to be anything. It's it's we're in the

755
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: you know, we're in the process of building it. It's

756
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: still very much, uh an intangible thing, you know. It's

757
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: it's going to be what we make it. But I

758
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: guess it's it's going to be so important for for

759
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: people to be able to to visualize it, to to

760
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 1: kind of to see it from a human angle. Otherwise

761
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 1: it is is it not just going to be you know,

762
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: guys wandering around with with VR goggles on. Yeah, Well

763
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 1: that's the fact that you think about it. And the

764
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 1: one of the thing about having a channel that's devoted

765
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 1: to the meta verse is that we don't have to

766
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: have the answer to that. We can test stuff out

767
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 1: and if it's BS, well, we'll say it's BS. And

768
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,839
Speaker 1: if it's goofy, will say it's goofy. What I think

769
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 1: nobody has really done yet is try to explore the

770
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 1: metaverse from the inside out. There is a lot of

771
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 1: there's a lot of chat about the meta verse. Is

772
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: this you know, ten trillion dollar opportunity from vcs who

773
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: are investing in pumping their bags and all this kind

774
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 1: of thing, And they're sort of right, and there's a

775
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,879
Speaker 1: lot of money being invested in it, in the infrastructure

776
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: to be able to render three D through a web

777
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 1: browser or through goggles or through whatever it might be.

778
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: But you've got this kind of confluence of all sorts

779
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 1: of different things technologically that have been promised for like

780
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: the last fifty years. But they're sort of finally kind

781
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: of there, a little bit sketchy, but they are kind

782
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 1: of there. On Facebook's pumping so much money into the

783
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: middle accelerate. Again, that doesn't have anything to do with

784
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,239
Speaker 1: human beings. The technology is the bit that gets in

785
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: the way. What again, you have to do is go

786
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:28,919
Speaker 1: back and look at ten year old to play video games.

787
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: Look at the way that they their their brains think

788
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: and the way they observe and navigate these worlds. I

789
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 1: give a shit about any of that stuff. It's all

790
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 1: about social presence, about being with your mates in a

791
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 1: space that you completely controlled and have ownership of, and

792
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 1: none of the other stuff matters. Will get so obsessed

793
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: over owning land and um, you know, I'm close to

794
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 1: the center of this land. Kids don't care, they don't

795
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 1: care about any of that stuff. It's just a social

796
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 1: presence device. And the technology enables you to be in

797
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,399
Speaker 1: a different place from where you are in a way

798
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 1: that is delightful. That sensorial. It's multisensory, and it will

799
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: be because you'll be able to smell things, It'll it

800
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: will have all of those experiences built in, and it

801
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 1: will be a secondary layer. It's basically the Internet in

802
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: three D. And that's really again, it's pretty hard to

803
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 1: kind of wrap your head around even what that means.

804
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 1: But that's because we're so god damn early But like

805
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 1: I said, with the Quest proyer, you put it on

806
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: your like I start to get there, I start to

807
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 1: get there, I start to feel like, this is not

808
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: a restrictive device that I'm tethered to a computer. And

809
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: even with the quest too, it's in black and white.

810
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 1: When you look at past through, it's still like it's

811
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 1: a thing on your face. Crest Pro doesn't sit on

812
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: your face and sits on your head. It's more like glasses,

813
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 1: and it's like, Okay, I can, I can sort of

814
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: get there. And again I I don't have all the

815
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: answers to all this, but what I do know is

816
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 1: that there are certain things that I'm asking myself, certain

817
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 1: questions I'm asking myself that I'm signed to use as

818
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 1: kind of springboards for videos we might make, for instance,

819
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: like what does taste manifest as in the most verse

820
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 1: because it's one of those senses that cannot be kind

821
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 1: of delivered virtually or through a computer screen at the moment.

822
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,280
Speaker 1: But you're gonna want it. Guarantee you that you're gonna

823
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 1: want that piece of it, and someone's going to build it,

824
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: and it's going to be toxic and it's probably going

825
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 1: to cause some accidents, but it's gonna be amazing and

826
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: when they figure it out, like yes, Mr Beasts Virtual

827
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,240
Speaker 1: Burgers in the metaverse, you can actually eat and taste.

828
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: I'm down for that. Like I I am that kid

829
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: that like used to just just absorb as much about

830
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 1: new fangled tech as I possibly could. And I remember

831
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: the old days when I was when I was growing up,

832
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 1: Like my friends, like one of them might go to

833
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 1: Hong Kong and they would come back and they would

834
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: have come back with this swag bag full of the

835
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 1: most insane technology I've ever seen. It would be like

836
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 1: a TV on your wrist and you and like, I

837
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: never thought that's crap and the areas are gonna work,

838
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 1: It's gonna be a crap signal. I just thought, there's

839
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: a bloody TV on your watch. Obviously, in this day

840
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: and age, that's not very remarkable, but back then that

841
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:10,839
Speaker 1: was insane. And so that's kind of where we're at,

842
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,240
Speaker 1: which is sort of busting through this wild technological phase.

843
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: At the moment, we're going to have holographic displays, Like

844
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: trust me, if it's been in a in a film,

845
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: in some kind of science fiction film, someone's building it

846
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 1: because that's where we get all our best ideas from. Yeah,

847
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: I love all that stuff. I can't help it. It's

848
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,879
Speaker 1: so it's so refreshing to hear to hear you sort

849
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 1: of talk about it like that, Robin, because I think

850
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 1: so much of so much of the talk around the metaverse. Now,

851
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 1: you know that the D word comes up all the time,

852
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 1: doesn't it This this idea of it just being some

853
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 1: dystopian place, you know something I guess, you know, I

854
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 1: guess kind of Blade Runner ish and and well, you know,

855
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 1: snow like snow Crash for those who for those who

856
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: have read it, um, snow Crash isn't even that dystopian.

857
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 1: Weirdly enough, it's it's and I mean it's just it's

858
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 1: just mad. Yeah, it's mad, and it paints it pends

859
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: a pretty you know, even like how how long is

860
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 1: it now? Like thirty years on from when he wrote it.

861
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,439
Speaker 1: It's pretty on point, But it doesn't it doesn't present

862
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: dysturb because they love the world they're in. Like the

863
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: main characters, like this fourteen year old skater kid career,

864
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 1: she loves the world she's in. It's just fun for

865
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 1: so yeah, I mean, but I take your point. The

866
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 1: dysopient part of it is is is always there and

867
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 1: like we are rightly concerned about the role of technology

868
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: in our lives, but at the same time, unless we

869
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 1: unless we look at it from a different perspective and

870
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: take a contrarian view, which is like, what if this

871
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 1: is actually going to be really awesome? What if this

872
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: is actually enables breakthroughs in medicine and enables breakthroughs in

873
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 1: education and mental health, which all of those three I

874
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 1: think really can be helped. I mean, the military is

875
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 1: basically where the metaverse comes from, and so let's not

876
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: talk about that. But you know, fundamentally, yes, that those

877
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 1: three things for starters could be really amazing. And again,

878
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know what it's going to be,

879
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 1: but what I do know is that we've started a

880
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 1: company whose sole focus is the metaverse, so we need

881
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 1: to get really good at understanding what it is. But

882
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, you me everybody, there's

883
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 1: a massive gap between what we think the metaverse is

884
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: and maybe what it is right now as a storyteller.

885
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 1: That's awesome. And what this is sort of coincided with

886
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: is like this new phase of YouTube where it's becoming

887
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: we're sort of moving out of the Mr. Beast phase

888
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 1: where it was just like everyone was copying him and

889
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: taking suitcases for the cash and throwing them at an

890
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:34,280
Speaker 1: idea and then suddenly that was that was success. Um

891
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: a Mr. Beast is a very different animal from everyone

892
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 1: who copied him. But that model where you just scream

893
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: and shout and then like here's the prize, a hundred

894
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 1: thousand dollars um or like the weirdest, wackiest thing you

895
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: can possibly think of. Um, we're started moving away from

896
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 1: that into more storytelling based. I think the ideas are

897
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: still going to be wild, and when we come up

898
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: with our ideas, they have to meet that criteria, like

899
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,919
Speaker 1: the the thumbnail has to be like, oh my god,

900
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: what did they do? And like that's what we're gonna

901
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:04,439
Speaker 1: have to hold ourselves too. But do you mean, Robin,

902
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 1: do you mean that you're not You're not going to

903
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 1: go for the for the orgasm face on the thumb? Now,

904
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 1: I don't know how to do it. I don't know

905
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: how to do it. I mean, there are there are

906
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 1: mirrors in the office, and when I look at them

907
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 1: and I see that, and I am forced to confront

908
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 1: sex face. Robin, it's not going to work. So we

909
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 1: have to come up with some other stuff to do that.

910
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: But yes, it never to be. You've done it. I know.

911
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 1: I know. I'm yeah, it's it's it's a really interesting conversation.

912
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 1: It's an interesting conversation to have. Way around it. People go,

913
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: you've got to put your face on the thumb mel Man,

914
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: because I don't be your face and thumber. How good

915
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: are people going to know to be excited? It's like

916
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 1: that is that? What is that? Where we are exactly?

917
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 1: That's what you've got. You're scrolling through, you scrolling through

918
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 1: like this going oh look, that's really really wound up

919
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 1: about to jizz. Let's watch that video. I hope no one.

920
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 1: I hope no one's looking over my shoulder whilst I

921
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: scroll through all this. Oh no, that's terrible. But that's

922
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 1: kind of the game you have to play. So that

923
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 1: that whole YouTube algorithm bating thing is you know, the

924
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 1: click through rate. It's like nobody's watching your video if

925
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,359
Speaker 1: they didn't decide to click on it. So you've got

926
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 1: to get the click right. Um, So we we're sort

927
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 1: of engineering all of that out at the moment. But

928
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 1: when people do land on the video, there is there's

929
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: a lot of attention retention tactic stuff that you can

930
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 1: put in and a lot of it's very immature, which

931
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:38,959
Speaker 1: is just keep talking. I mean something that quick, that's well, wow,

932
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 1: it's not gonna work. It's gonna work, it's not gonna wait.

933
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: Now that the returns every tip and you're like, wow,

934
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 1: that was ten minutes of my life, I won't get

935
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 1: but now I'm deaf. But at least they but at

936
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 1: least they're still watching. Yeah, but le's just a watching.

937
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: But my fundamental belief is that if you tell a

938
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 1: good story, you don't need to do any of that.

939
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 1: Like if you are, if you doing proper set ups

940
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 1: and payoffs, if you are, if your concepts good, and

941
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 1: if you have a if a really good ending and

942
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 1: you know what that ending is, you can design it

943
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 1: in such a way that it builds and rises and

944
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 1: falls in succession. Um to keep people hooked eat any

945
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 1: of any of that stuff, But that's just a harder task.

946
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 1: And I think the first film that we're making, we

947
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,399
Speaker 1: have been working on the script NonStop for about two

948
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 1: and a half months now. We're still not finished, just refining, refining. Obviously,

949
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: it's a pilot, so it has to be good. But

950
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 1: that that's the that's the bit that I think we'll

951
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,399
Speaker 1: hopefully keep people coming back because they know that our

952
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 1: stories are nuts. They would just not go where you

953
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 1: think they're going to go. And I love, I'm going

954
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 1: to really enjoy seeing whether that works, whether that tactic

955
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:49,279
Speaker 1: is valid um, and if it's not, well adjust But

956
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: that's the hell I'm going to die on, at least

957
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:54,760
Speaker 1: for now, storytelling. It sounds I mean, it sounds amazing.

958
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 1: And you've also I mean, I guess you've got this

959
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,359
Speaker 1: kind of blank canvas in a way, because going back

960
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 1: to what you were saying about the metaverse, you know

961
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:06,359
Speaker 1: that it's we're still figuring it out. So you've got this,

962
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: You've got this kind of blank canvas to work with,

963
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,359
Speaker 1: which I guess is must be really kind of must

964
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 1: be really liberating and also kind of daunting at the

965
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 1: same time. But I mean, you don't strike me as

966
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 1: you don't strike me as being at all phased by that.

967
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:23,279
Speaker 1: That that seems to be, That seems to be like

968
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: just a kind of a red rag to a bull

969
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: for you. Well, it kind of was. It kind of was.

970
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 1: I mean, we we raised some money from vcs to

971
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: get this going, and they believed in me enough. I

972
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,839
Speaker 1: guess they saw that I was fearless enough to take

973
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: this on there is. There's an increasing level of technological

974
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: competence required in all of this, and it's not just

975
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: the filmmaking. For instance, if you want to inhabit the

976
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 1: body of a digital character, there's a few different ways

977
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 1: you can do it. You can go and be our chat.

978
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 1: It's pretty limited the expressiveness that you can put in there,

979
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 1: but that's also kind of part of its charm and

980
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 1: that's fun. But if, for instance, you know, we see

981
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 1: the Other Side trailer, Okay, so that the Other Side

982
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 1: trailer was amazing and it's a glorious piece of animation.

983
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 1: It was beautiful put together. So much work, so much

984
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: post production, so much effort to get that onto the screen.

985
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 1: You know, that's very labor intensive, and you can't just

986
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 1: jump into the body of that character and perform as

987
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: that character. So we're looking very carefully into motion capture

988
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 1: so suits that you can put on that you can

989
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 1: then pilot a character with. Because as much as it's

990
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 1: nice for me to present a story and it be

991
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 1: an in real life story with the metaverse, comes in

992
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 1: expectation that some of it will look like it comes

993
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 1: from the metaverse, and it has to be beholden to

994
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 1: rules that are metaverse rules, whatever those are. So you

995
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 1: have to kind of start thinking about what does this

996
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 1: virtual life production look like? How do we shoot in

997
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 1: the metaverse? Um? And like really quickly, any platform you

998
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 1: go onto it's just sucks. You can't You've got no control,

999
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: no subtlety, and it's really takes a long time to

1000
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 1: shoot anything in there, so you just end up with

1001
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 1: this very goofy kind of proxy of stuff. So for us,

1002
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:08,800
Speaker 1: the logical conclusion was look at the suits. The suits

1003
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 1: again a little bit limited. They have inertial sensors in them,

1004
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 1: like an iPhone um, and so the sensors can kind

1005
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 1: of know where you are in relation to other sensors,

1006
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 1: but they don't really have an understanding of where you are. Specifically.

1007
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 1: They're getting a lot better, but they lose kind of

1008
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:28,879
Speaker 1: contact with the ground, so you end up then sitting

1009
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:31,839
Speaker 1: in a chair, and again that's pretty limited. And then

1010
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 1: they sort of lose touch with the coordinates that you've

1011
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 1: programmed into them, so that you have to reset them

1012
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 1: halfway through. So I wanted to stream as a character, um,

1013
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 1: something weird might happen. Then you have to have a

1014
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 1: helmet on and a phone and all these kind of things,

1015
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 1: and facial motion captures particularly difficult. Um So a long

1016
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 1: story shot, where we ended up was we basically built

1017
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: the system that they used for Avatar Wow, which is

1018
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 1: which is nuts. So we were sort of on on

1019
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 1: its way being built the moment, but we put together

1020
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 1: they're a an optical motion capture system, which is so

1021
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 1: we've got twenty viscon cameras, which are these infrared kind

1022
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 1: of cap motion capture cameras. You put twenty of them

1023
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 1: around the room and then at any time they can

1024
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 1: triangulate your position. You wear a suit with pink pong

1025
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:16,719
Speaker 1: balls on it, still have to wear a helmet with

1026
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 1: a phone on it, and we still need to figure

1027
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 1: out how to do the facial motion capture. But with

1028
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:23,399
Speaker 1: that system, basically what it means that we can have

1029
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:25,839
Speaker 1: more than one person in the room at the same time.

1030
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 1: We can trap props. So I could have this bottle

1031
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 1: and I could throw it to someone else and it

1032
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:33,359
Speaker 1: would track perfectly, pretty much in real time. And that

1033
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:35,320
Speaker 1: means that we can then live stream as those characters.

1034
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 1: We could just do a variety show, we do a

1035
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 1: chat show, and it would just be a question of

1036
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 1: putting the suit on, stepping into the volume we call

1037
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: it the Holiday deck, and then spinning up the environment

1038
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:45,359
Speaker 1: that we want to be in, so it could be

1039
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 1: anything we choose. So that level of technical proficiency is

1040
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 1: is it's it's taking a bit of time. And then

1041
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 1: just like we want to build stuff in the metaverse,

1042
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:59,240
Speaker 1: and you end up then needed to do custom Unity

1043
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 1: builds a customs script, and those custom scripts are incredibly

1044
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 1: problematic when it comes to UM plugging in metal mask,

1045
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 1: So anything that has a metal mask wile it component

1046
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:13,360
Speaker 1: and an external script big no, No, okay, as you

1047
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 1: as you can probably understand, So you know, figuring out

1048
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 1: what platforms to use and how to use them and

1049
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,799
Speaker 1: then make them safe for people to use, because you know,

1050
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:24,439
Speaker 1: the meta should be a social experience. So if people

1051
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: can't come and join in when we're doing stuff, then

1052
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 1: it kind of falls down. If it's just a recording

1053
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 1: of an event, no, well it's okay, but like we

1054
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 1: need to do events where people can be part of it, participate,

1055
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 1: win prizes, you know all of that kind of stuff.

1056
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 1: So we have to figure out a lot. Yeah, it's

1057
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 1: quite hard work. It sounds it. It sounds it, and

1058
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 1: I mean going back to what you were saying about

1059
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 1: you know that the meta verse has to be a

1060
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 1: social space and stuff. Do you do you feel that obviously,

1061
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 1: the Internet came along and no one was adequately prepared

1062
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 1: for it, and it's morphed into this amazing and at

1063
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 1: the same time terrifying thing. There is. There is so

1064
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 1: much that's good about it, there's so much that is deeply,

1065
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: deeply wrong about it. And do you think that with

1066
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 1: the metaverse, this is this is a chance for us

1067
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 1: to you know, to to to build it, to make

1068
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 1: a better Internet. Do you think that the lessons of internet,

1069
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 1: you know, the first age of the Internet, if you like,

1070
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 1: do you think those can be learned? Do you do

1071
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 1: you think we have do you think people like yourselves

1072
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 1: and others sort of building in the metaverse? Are you

1073
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 1: going to have the opportunity do you think to shape it?

1074
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 1: Or do you think it's going to be something that's

1075
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:56,280
Speaker 1: just gonna, like the original Internet, just kind of become

1076
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 1: so organic that it kind of gets a little out

1077
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 1: of control. Well, that's a big question. So you have

1078
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 1: to look at it this way. There is there's a

1079
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:12,360
Speaker 1: hardware interface version of this, and that's that's hard because

1080
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:19,400
Speaker 1: Apple has basically exerted such an iron grip over everything, Yeah,

1081
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:24,399
Speaker 1: taking its cut over everything that it's like, we need

1082
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 1: to get off that as soon as possible. And I

1083
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 1: you know, I have a lot of love for Apple

1084
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,759
Speaker 1: products and always have done, but like the iPhone is

1085
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 1: is bad news. And then you look at the Quest

1086
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 1: pro and the Quest platform and it's like, are we

1087
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 1: just repeating the same thing again? And Zuck is making

1088
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:43,959
Speaker 1: a lot of noise about embracing you know, decentralization full

1089
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 1: short of Web three and everything else. But that's understandable,

1090
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 1: but you know, where does that really sit and what

1091
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:51,360
Speaker 1: Once you kind of dig back into the history of

1092
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 1: the Internet and the open source standards, the drive it like,

1093
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I there, these things need to work at scale, right,

1094
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:05,759
Speaker 1: they need to be delivered at scale, and everyone's sort

1095
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 1: of fighting for their piece of the pie that they

1096
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,759
Speaker 1: can control and ring fence. And you know, it would

1097
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 1: be weird if all of our websites were served up

1098
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 1: by private servers and it wasn't an open source standard

1099
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:18,200
Speaker 1: and you had you could only if you had an

1100
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 1: IBM subscription, you could only access a certain chunk of

1101
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 1: the Internet. That would just be so weird. But that's

1102
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:25,920
Speaker 1: kind of where it was heading at one point. So

1103
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:28,839
Speaker 1: we do need these open source standards and that when

1104
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 1: you dig into the what's needed to deliver a fully

1105
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 1: fleshed out metaverse, there's a bunch of stuff that's like

1106
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:38,720
Speaker 1: it's really hard to do. And it's not just interoperability,

1107
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:41,399
Speaker 1: which is just such a misduding term anyway, but it's like,

1108
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:43,319
Speaker 1: what does the economy look like? How do we make

1109
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:48,400
Speaker 1: payment rails that don't go via Apple for instance, or

1110
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 1: Android or one of these other platforms that are just

1111
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 1: there and just work. Um, it's really tough. I I

1112
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:56,600
Speaker 1: think we can play a role in shaping it. I

1113
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:58,840
Speaker 1: think I guess where I sat with all of this

1114
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 1: is that there are there are going to be a

1115
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:04,400
Speaker 1: bunch of really interesting people who might not take a

1116
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 1: look at this space. But if I can make the

1117
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:11,360
Speaker 1: story about the metaphors really fun and entertaining and not

1118
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 1: this top down twenty training dollar opportunity, we should invest

1119
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 1: or here by this land and it's going to go

1120
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 1: up a thousand decks next month. Um. But it's just like,

1121
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 1: here's a really interesting question about the metaverse. What's the

1122
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:26,759
Speaker 1: weirdest way we can tell that story? Um? That might

1123
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:29,239
Speaker 1: get somewhere, that might get somewhere, but I just don't

1124
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 1: know what what I what I fundamentally believe though, is

1125
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 1: that the growth potential for anything that's sort of around

1126
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:38,799
Speaker 1: the metaverse is off the charts. So I'm I'm keen

1127
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:41,239
Speaker 1: to kind of plant my flag here and see see

1128
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 1: what we can do with it. Yeah, it's so exciting,

1129
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,359
Speaker 1: and I mean it's interesting too. It's interesting to hear

1130
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 1: you as well talking earlier about how your how your

1131
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 1: team's up, because I mean what you say makes a

1132
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:54,239
Speaker 1: lot of sense. I guess I think, you know, the

1133
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:57,839
Speaker 1: fact that the fact that Facebook now meta has has

1134
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 1: has made such a strong play for this, you know,

1135
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 1: it's it just seems, I think to so many people,

1136
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 1: myself included in to a large extent, it just seems

1137
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:10,400
Speaker 1: like such a kind of power grab, you know, in

1138
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 1: the same way that in the same way that Bezos

1139
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 1: and Elon Musk and Richard Branson all seemed to be,

1140
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 1: you know, kind of trying to grab a chunk of

1141
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 1: space before everyone else. It's, you know it, I think

1142
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 1: there is still this deep unease that people have with

1143
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 1: the fact that, oh, you know, web web two, that

1144
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 1: the facebooks and the Google's and and everyone else are

1145
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 1: already kind of you know, they're already trying to get there.

1146
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:40,000
Speaker 1: They're already ahead of us in so many ways. But

1147
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 1: but do you think you get more of an impression

1148
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 1: that he's I don't know, it's kind of more in

1149
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 1: it for the tech do you think or is it

1150
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 1: kind of perhaps perhaps has better motivations than we than

1151
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 1: we give him credit for. Well, I wouldn't presume to

1152
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 1: know what what I what I do feel is like

1153
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 1: I I kind of get his philosophy around the metaverse,

1154
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 1: particularly when it comes to things like it's physical, it

1155
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 1: makes you move, it makes you think. There is a

1156
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 1: sort of element of creativity that jumps out of all

1157
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:16,080
Speaker 1: of this. Obviously, if the way that we experience it

1158
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 1: is through one single company and their vision of it

1159
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 1: and there gatekeeping processes, then yeah, that's problematic. But again

1160
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:28,640
Speaker 1: that's meta and not Zack like the Zark sort of

1161
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:29,920
Speaker 1: vision of all of this, and he takes a lot

1162
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 1: of crap for it. That's kind of where I say,

1163
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 1: beyond that, Mom, I'm not going to say I support

1164
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:38,920
Speaker 1: all of what they're about, because yes, that is that

1165
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,720
Speaker 1: is a problem. Yeah, if there's too many yeah, there

1166
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 1: are shades of gray, of course, And I mean where

1167
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:47,479
Speaker 1: the message with where we are, with where we're at

1168
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:50,919
Speaker 1: with the metaverse now, you know, it's it's so it's

1169
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 1: so easy to kind of for people to sort of

1170
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:57,360
Speaker 1: pile onto it, especially especially at a time when you

1171
00:58:57,360 --> 00:58:59,520
Speaker 1: know the kind of where the whole kind of where

1172
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 1: Web through to some people is just you know, almost

1173
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 1: a taboo subject. And n f T s are you know,

1174
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 1: just said with you know, people almost spit when they

1175
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 1: say that, when they say the phrase, now, oh, I

1176
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 1: know this, this whole this whole Reddit thing where Reddit

1177
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:17,520
Speaker 1: released n f T s but they didn't mention the

1178
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 1: word n f T and everyone was like, Wow, that's

1179
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 1: how you do. I'm like, grow a pair. Just call

1180
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 1: it what it is. It's an n f T. Like

1181
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 1: that's fine. It is an n f T. It's a

1182
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 1: piece of technology. Like all the other crap that comes

1183
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:38,320
Speaker 1: around in TASE, Yes, problematic, but the thing itself, it's

1184
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:41,000
Speaker 1: like getting angry at a JPEG or PDF. It's like

1185
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:43,320
Speaker 1: it's so dumb, but I'm not gonna I'm not gonna

1186
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 1: fight that fight because I've I've said that in publicly

1187
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 1: before and got crucified for it. But it's so so

1188
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 1: ridicuous if you're gonna release n f t s, call

1189
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:57,479
Speaker 1: them what they are, own that ship. Yeah, yeah, And

1190
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 1: I mean, before I'm rubbing, I'm I'm conscious that I'm

1191
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 1: taking up a lot of your time here, But I

1192
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 1: wanted to ask as well, I mean, do you think

1193
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:06,920
Speaker 1: do you think we're we're in a good place with

1194
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 1: the metaverse in terms of you know, when you consider

1195
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:13,600
Speaker 1: and I think it was it was Matthew ball in

1196
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:15,480
Speaker 1: In in his article and he was talking about it

1197
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 1: in Time magazine recently. You know, he made the point

1198
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:20,640
Speaker 1: that that the way the Internet is set up is,

1199
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 1: you know, it can't handle what we're what we're trying

1200
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: to do with it at the moment, you know, which

1201
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:27,400
Speaker 1: which is why it's it's so difficult to make to

1202
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:29,520
Speaker 1: make a voice call and all these sorts of things.

1203
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 1: You know, do you think, with with the tech that

1204
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 1: we have and the understanding that we have, do you

1205
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:38,840
Speaker 1: think we're in a good place with the metaverse? Or

1206
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 1: are you do you think we've kind of do you

1207
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 1: think we could could be could have done better by

1208
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:51,720
Speaker 1: this stage? Well, that's a difficult question to answer because firstly,

1209
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:54,200
Speaker 1: I don't have the answers to it. What I do

1210
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:56,439
Speaker 1: know is that there's a lot of money being spent

1211
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 1: by a lot of different companies on it. The most

1212
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 1: knows to being better, of course, and they are. If

1213
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:04,360
Speaker 1: they're not developing it, they're buying the companies that are

1214
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 1: developing specific pieces of technology. And again, try the the

1215
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:11,280
Speaker 1: quest pro and you can see the fruits of those labors.

1216
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 1: But it just takes a long time to get a

1217
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 1: device like that into production and then through testing and

1218
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 1: everything else. So in terms of that, no, But then

1219
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:22,439
Speaker 1: I look at what Adobe is doing and the way

1220
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:24,560
Speaker 1: that they're sort of setting up these open source standards

1221
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:26,840
Speaker 1: for three D rendering all these kind of things. It's

1222
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:29,760
Speaker 1: on its way. It's happening, whether we call it the

1223
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 1: metaverse or not. That vision of things is inevitable, I think,

1224
01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:36,960
Speaker 1: in terms of whether they're in a good place for it.

1225
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 1: But it comes bring the Internet crashing down, probably, there's

1226
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:48,440
Speaker 1: the answer. Probably, you know, um, but then you you know,

1227
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 1: you just build more capacity and some tycoon will get

1228
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:54,720
Speaker 1: incredibly rich building the chips that we need all the

1229
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, well that's but that's another fascinating thing,

1230
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:06,680
Speaker 1: like the the race to create silicon, you know, transistors

1231
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 1: that are one nanometer one name, that's like one atom.

1232
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:16,240
Speaker 1: Like there's been this arms race between Intel and TSNC,

1233
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:21,400
Speaker 1: the Taiwanese chip manufacturer, and this is a whole crazy story, right,

1234
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:23,240
Speaker 1: and we should probably cover it on base. But like

1235
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:29,360
Speaker 1: seven nanimeies used to be like really like a lot

1236
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:31,200
Speaker 1: that was that was that was hard to pull off.

1237
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 1: And then it became five, and then it became three.

1238
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 1: And they the rumors that TSMC are about to build

1239
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:38,800
Speaker 1: a factory that can do one. And that means you

1240
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 1: can make these tiny, tiny, tiny tiny chips because it's

1241
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:44,959
Speaker 1: very difficult to make them faster because they just melt

1242
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 1: if they get to a certain point. So you can

1243
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:49,880
Speaker 1: make them smaller, and like, how can you make something

1244
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:54,560
Speaker 1: smaller than an atom? I mean wild stuff? This is

1245
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:55,920
Speaker 1: what this is what I get to nerd out on.

1246
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:07,480
Speaker 1: How are un animator? Good? Lord? It's um you know, yeah,

1247
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:10,600
Speaker 1: it's so exciting too. I mean, it's so exciting to

1248
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 1: to hear your you know, to hear your kind of

1249
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:15,960
Speaker 1: I guess just enthusiasm for it, Robin. And you know,

1250
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:19,440
Speaker 1: as I said that it comes in the metaverse and

1251
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 1: web three and you know, crypto, the wider world of crypto.

1252
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:25,920
Speaker 1: There's there's so much, there's so much negativity around it

1253
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:29,440
Speaker 1: at the moment, and to hear someone like yourself, you know,

1254
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:32,480
Speaker 1: you've gone from you've gone from this amazing thing that

1255
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:36,320
Speaker 1: you've built with the Defiant and now it seems like

1256
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:39,640
Speaker 1: you're you're, you're, you're, you're just times in that by

1257
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:42,360
Speaker 1: a hundred, you know, to to to make to start

1258
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 1: this new crazy project which is going to I think,

1259
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I I personally can't wait to you know,

1260
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:50,600
Speaker 1: to see what you guys come up with. But yeah,

1261
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:54,040
Speaker 1: I'm also just I'm also just intrigued not only to

1262
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 1: kind of watch what you're going to produce, but actually

1263
01:03:57,000 --> 01:03:59,600
Speaker 1: you know, just see what it is, do you know

1264
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:02,240
Speaker 1: what I mean? And it's it's so I think everybody

1265
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:06,120
Speaker 1: is well that we we were doing and a prep drob,

1266
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 1: oh god, oh no he's doing but like we we

1267
01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 1: are and there's a very specific reason why we're doing that.

1268
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:16,960
Speaker 1: But it's you know, there's there's this idea that there's

1269
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:19,520
Speaker 1: like nine percent of your audience is really the valuable

1270
01:04:19,560 --> 01:04:21,800
Speaker 1: bit and like your super fans, and we wanted to

1271
01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:24,560
Speaker 1: kind of reward them with the thing that represented them

1272
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:29,760
Speaker 1: and that gave them sort of passport to be a participant.

1273
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 1: I'm going to fall short of saying the word owner,

1274
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 1: but have some form of ownership over a YouTube channel

1275
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 1: in its inception and the rate that we are kind

1276
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:43,520
Speaker 1: of hoping to grow shouldn't make that fairly meaningful over

1277
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:46,400
Speaker 1: the course of a couple of years or so. And

1278
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 1: so that that's launching probably the beginning of December. Stuff

1279
01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:53,640
Speaker 1: is going to get really weird around me and around

1280
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:55,800
Speaker 1: what we're doing in the run up to that, because

1281
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:58,320
Speaker 1: we don't believe in doing things the normal way. So

1282
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:01,960
Speaker 1: that's something of a clue. And then the first film

1283
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:04,880
Speaker 1: we're doing is going to go out, um, just before Christmas.

1284
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:08,720
Speaker 1: That's sort of our pilot. So we we thought, basically,

1285
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:10,920
Speaker 1: do one film before Christmas and then we start production

1286
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:15,440
Speaker 1: next year. But um, it's so balls out this first film.

1287
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 1: I'm actually a little scared, to be honest. Yeah, it's personally.

1288
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:22,600
Speaker 1: It's going to put me through some stuff that I

1289
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:25,960
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm physically or mentally prepared for. Um,

1290
01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:30,880
Speaker 1: So we shall see if I if I survive what's

1291
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:33,280
Speaker 1: coming for me, because it's it's gonna be nuts it's

1292
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 1: almost it almost sounds like a kind of meta metaphor

1293
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:41,440
Speaker 1: for the metaverse itself, like be prepared to just to

1294
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:46,680
Speaker 1: just experience some completely wild chip because you just no

1295
01:05:46,800 --> 01:05:50,440
Speaker 1: one is no one is ready. Well, that's exactly it.

1296
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:54,240
Speaker 1: So this is where the rubber hits the road, because

1297
01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:57,120
Speaker 1: if you think about really Play one and snow Crash,

1298
01:05:57,400 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 1: you have these fully fleshed out, gory, glorious, three D

1299
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:05,080
Speaker 1: rendered versions of everything, and we're not there. We're basically

1300
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:10,240
Speaker 1: you know, it's the wild West. It is. It's basically garbage.

1301
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 1: That's the metaphor that we're leading into trash land. It's

1302
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:16,320
Speaker 1: it's a kind of repository for a bunch of really

1303
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:18,800
Speaker 1: terrible ideas, and somewhere in the middle of all of

1304
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:22,320
Speaker 1: that crab is something good. And that's a much more

1305
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:25,640
Speaker 1: apt metaphor because actually, out of garbage you can create

1306
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 1: an awful lot. You can recycle it, you can you

1307
01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:30,680
Speaker 1: can do wonderful things with it. But if you start

1308
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:33,160
Speaker 1: from that position that that shiny version of things, that

1309
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:36,040
Speaker 1: kind of glossy you know, isn't as beautiful, isn't this

1310
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:39,640
Speaker 1: render amazing? That's not it. It is going to be

1311
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:44,720
Speaker 1: scrappy and slimy and a bit weird. And that's kind

1312
01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:47,480
Speaker 1: of something that I am looking forward to. It's primordial

1313
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:52,120
Speaker 1: sup in a sense, a new beginning. It's um, it's

1314
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:55,880
Speaker 1: so exciting new hope. But war with Guy and Robbin

1315
01:06:55,960 --> 01:06:58,600
Speaker 1: the metaverse. They didn't think two English accents on the

1316
01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:02,760
Speaker 1: same podcast could good work, but it did. They thought

1317
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:09,640
Speaker 1: the air waves would explode. Gosh yeah yeah, I um yeah,

1318
01:07:09,640 --> 01:07:11,240
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I'm not sure what people are going

1319
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:14,760
Speaker 1: to make it this Robin to to English crypto bros.

1320
01:07:14,840 --> 01:07:17,160
Speaker 1: It doesn't it doesn't sound it doesn't work. It doesn't

1321
01:07:17,280 --> 01:07:20,000
Speaker 1: sound quite right, does it. I could I could just

1322
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:22,480
Speaker 1: go California for you. So I was like, you know,

1323
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:25,960
Speaker 1: I was buying with half brow. I was like, anyway, yeah,

1324
01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:28,720
Speaker 1: that's not there. People get angry with me. Yeah, yeah,

1325
01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:30,800
Speaker 1: you can't. You've got to. You've got to. You've got

1326
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:34,280
Speaker 1: to keep keep these people happy. It's um, it's that

1327
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:36,960
Speaker 1: extraordinary thing, isn't it about just just to just to

1328
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:40,160
Speaker 1: touch on this idea of communities which are obviously so

1329
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 1: important in crypto and web three and they're going to

1330
01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:45,960
Speaker 1: be I think a massive part of the messaverse as well.

1331
01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:50,520
Speaker 1: But it's yeah, it's this. It's this amazing thing of

1332
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:52,360
Speaker 1: you know, you have these groups of people, but they

1333
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 1: can be such a toxic entity as well. And you know,

1334
01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 1: I think we've all kind of fallen foul of one

1335
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:00,919
Speaker 1: or other sort of crypto community in our time. It's

1336
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:03,560
Speaker 1: um Again, it's the kind of thing that you hope,

1337
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:06,600
Speaker 1: I guess that we can move away from in in

1338
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:11,000
Speaker 1: the metaverse, but perhaps perhaps not. No, there's this, there's

1339
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:14,320
Speaker 1: this sense of entitlement that communities have, and it boils

1340
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:17,080
Speaker 1: down to one simple things. People in your community think

1341
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:21,759
Speaker 1: they're working harder than you are, which I find insane,

1342
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:24,160
Speaker 1: but that's that's basically where it's at. They think, oh,

1343
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:26,120
Speaker 1: we're working really hard to kind of find stuff, and

1344
01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:29,240
Speaker 1: we've given you our time and and you're not working hard,

1345
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:33,160
Speaker 1: and you're like, dude. So one of the challenges that

1346
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:35,360
Speaker 1: we have is to prove beyond a shadow of a

1347
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:38,280
Speaker 1: doubt that we are indeed working extremely hard. I think

1348
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:41,000
Speaker 1: one of the advantages that we have is a lot

1349
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:44,640
Speaker 1: of energy projects in particular, find it really hard to

1350
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:47,040
Speaker 1: have that second album. So they you know, they launch

1351
01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:48,680
Speaker 1: and they have the art and that's great, but then

1352
01:08:49,400 --> 01:08:53,200
Speaker 1: what follows it up whereas whereas we we are not

1353
01:08:53,280 --> 01:08:55,320
Speaker 1: an n f T project, we are a YouTube channel,

1354
01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:58,479
Speaker 1: and so our cadence is going to be weekly. There's

1355
01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:01,519
Speaker 1: always going to be probably the other short form content

1356
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:04,599
Speaker 1: coming out. You're not gonna be bored. You'll see stuff

1357
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:07,519
Speaker 1: coming out, and there's always going to be something new

1358
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:09,720
Speaker 1: to show you what we've been up to. So I'm

1359
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:12,240
Speaker 1: hoping that that will kind of mitigate that to a degree.

1360
01:09:12,280 --> 01:09:14,320
Speaker 1: But I'm not naive enough to think that we won't

1361
01:09:14,320 --> 01:09:17,519
Speaker 1: trip up and getting you know, get our community angry

1362
01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:20,400
Speaker 1: with us at certain points, because unfortunately, that's just the

1363
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:24,439
Speaker 1: that's just the world we're in. It comes with the territory,

1364
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:28,160
Speaker 1: doesn't it. It does. Yeah, well, Robin, I mean I

1365
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:30,960
Speaker 1: think you know, here we are, we're staring we're staring

1366
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:33,920
Speaker 1: down the barrel of of of a bear market that

1367
01:09:34,160 --> 01:09:37,200
Speaker 1: is that is going to last for god knows how long.

1368
01:09:37,360 --> 01:09:40,400
Speaker 1: But I really feel that we've you know, with what

1369
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:43,160
Speaker 1: you're doing with with bassed af. You know, it ain't

1370
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:45,439
Speaker 1: gonna be all bad. There's gonna be there's gonna there's

1371
01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:48,160
Speaker 1: still cool stuff happening. And I mean I hear, I

1372
01:09:48,280 --> 01:09:51,800
Speaker 1: hear anecdotally just in the crypto space in general about

1373
01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:54,400
Speaker 1: all the building going on and you know, all the

1374
01:09:54,439 --> 01:09:56,800
Speaker 1: crazy stuff that's happening behind the scenes. And I try

1375
01:09:56,880 --> 01:09:58,680
Speaker 1: to you know, I try to tell people that, I

1376
01:09:58,760 --> 01:10:01,320
Speaker 1: try to let people know that it's it's hard because

1377
01:10:01,320 --> 01:10:03,640
Speaker 1: there's so there's often so little in the way of

1378
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:06,320
Speaker 1: tangible results, and you do sort of feel it's like, well,

1379
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:07,720
Speaker 1: you're just you know, you're just gonna have to wait

1380
01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:10,200
Speaker 1: to see what these projects are doing. But I think

1381
01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:13,280
Speaker 1: I think based a f is going to it's just

1382
01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:15,960
Speaker 1: gonna you know, just put it out there and and

1383
01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:18,360
Speaker 1: provent and let us see some let us see some

1384
01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:22,160
Speaker 1: building and some experimentation just just happen in real time.

1385
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:24,320
Speaker 1: I think I think it's going to make make the

1386
01:10:24,320 --> 01:10:28,040
Speaker 1: bear market that that much more bearable. Well, I hope.

1387
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:30,639
Speaker 1: So we're we're definitely not leaving anything on the table

1388
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:33,680
Speaker 1: when it comes to this, because we can't you know,

1389
01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:36,600
Speaker 1: the name Basically, it's the demands that we that we

1390
01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:39,599
Speaker 1: go there and we push things for the max um.

1391
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:41,040
Speaker 1: But that's kind of why I wanted to do this.

1392
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:43,800
Speaker 1: I wanted to, you know, go out with a bang.

1393
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:45,559
Speaker 1: What can I see myself doing for the next ten

1394
01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:49,840
Speaker 1: years and like try and build something that that had

1395
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:53,120
Speaker 1: my stamp on it, because I think, you know, there's

1396
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:54,920
Speaker 1: a lot of the work that I've produced over the

1397
01:10:54,960 --> 01:11:00,320
Speaker 1: last years was dishonest. If I'm honest, huh is it

1398
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:03,280
Speaker 1: was just me past teaching other people or you know,

1399
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:06,800
Speaker 1: trying to punch in a certain weight class and so

1400
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:09,960
Speaker 1: presenting word that I thought would do that. Whereas now

1401
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:12,160
Speaker 1: I don't give it monkeys anymore. I'm just like, what

1402
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:13,760
Speaker 1: I want to do? How am I going to do it?

1403
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:15,439
Speaker 1: I've learned all this stuff, I know how to do this,

1404
01:11:16,160 --> 01:11:19,559
Speaker 1: Like where where am I going to find the creative

1405
01:11:19,600 --> 01:11:23,080
Speaker 1: satisfaction of just pushing the boundaries? And I'm going into

1406
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:26,160
Speaker 1: places that just no one's ever been to before? Okay,

1407
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:29,720
Speaker 1: well here it is so knowing that it kind of

1408
01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:31,439
Speaker 1: gives you a lot of confidence that you you can't

1409
01:11:31,439 --> 01:11:35,120
Speaker 1: really fail. Um, you just got to be bold enough

1410
01:11:35,160 --> 01:11:38,160
Speaker 1: and brave enough to to make those decisions that are

1411
01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:41,880
Speaker 1: going to scare you a little bit. But again, why

1412
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:44,360
Speaker 1: else do it? There's no point unless you're going to

1413
01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:46,960
Speaker 1: really commit. Yeah, there's no And there's no point unless

1414
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:50,400
Speaker 1: you're going to to enjoy the journey, enjoy the ride.

1415
01:11:51,240 --> 01:11:53,880
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and what a rat it's going to be

1416
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:59,280
Speaker 1: let stay tuned. Yeah, absolutely, Oh it's brilliant. Well, thank Robin.

1417
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:01,920
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you taking the time to to to

1418
01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:04,599
Speaker 1: talk to me today about this because it's it's just

1419
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:07,320
Speaker 1: great too. It's just great to cover something you know,

1420
01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:12,160
Speaker 1: so positive and exciting and just mad. I've got to

1421
01:12:12,200 --> 01:12:16,240
Speaker 1: say it. It's it's bad. There's method in the madness.

1422
01:12:16,280 --> 01:12:21,240
Speaker 1: Trust me, I'm sure it's sometimes I'm like, why, why

1423
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:25,880
Speaker 1: why did we decide to do this? It's funny. Well,

1424
01:12:25,920 --> 01:12:28,400
Speaker 1: it's just great to hear that, you know, after after

1425
01:12:28,439 --> 01:12:30,439
Speaker 1: all the the amazing work that you did with the

1426
01:12:30,479 --> 01:12:32,400
Speaker 1: Defined and I should say as well that the Defined

1427
01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:35,040
Speaker 1: is still you know, a great and amazing channel that

1428
01:12:35,479 --> 01:12:38,920
Speaker 1: I recommend to anyone. But it's it's great Robin that

1429
01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:42,479
Speaker 1: you're going to be back doing this, doing this mad

1430
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:45,719
Speaker 1: stuff on our screens very soon. I really can't wait.

1431
01:12:45,840 --> 01:12:48,760
Speaker 1: And yeah, I really appreciate you, you know, coming to

1432
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:52,080
Speaker 1: coming to tell me about it today. Um so where

1433
01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:55,200
Speaker 1: can people where can listeners follow you that there? Listen

1434
01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:57,720
Speaker 1: They've listened to this and gone that sounds insane? How

1435
01:12:57,720 --> 01:12:59,800
Speaker 1: do I get more of this? How do they? How

1436
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:03,040
Speaker 1: do find you? Okay? So The best thing you can

1437
01:13:03,080 --> 01:13:05,400
Speaker 1: do is just follow me on Twitter. We are doing act,

1438
01:13:05,960 --> 01:13:07,719
Speaker 1: we're just just not doing it in the normal way.

1439
01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:11,080
Speaker 1: So just follow me on Twitter. I am supermassive one

1440
01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:15,639
Speaker 1: and yeah, that's probably the best thing to do. It'll

1441
01:13:15,680 --> 01:13:22,120
Speaker 1: it'll become clear, it'll all make sense into your course. Exactly. Excellent, Robin,

1442
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:24,240
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. This has been great, Um, and

1443
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:27,160
Speaker 1: thank you everyone for listening to this week's episode of

1444
01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 1: the coin Bureau podcast. Myself and Mike possibly will be

1445
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:34,760
Speaker 1: back very soon, so stay tuned. Thank you so much

1446
01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:37,360
Speaker 1: for listening to the coin Bureau podcast. If you'd like

1447
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:40,599
Speaker 1: to learn more about cryptocurrency, you can visit our YouTube

1448
01:13:40,640 --> 01:13:44,160
Speaker 1: channel at YouTube dot com forward slash coin Bureau. You

1449
01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:46,519
Speaker 1: can also go to coin bureau dot com for loads

1450
01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:49,519
Speaker 1: more information about all things crypto. You can follow me

1451
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:52,160
Speaker 1: on Twitter at coin burea or one word, and I'm

1452
01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:55,840
Speaker 1: also active on TikTok and Instagram as well. First of all,

1453
01:13:56,120 --> 01:14:00,719
Speaker 1: it's not thank you for listening, you're welcome for great contact. Yeah,

1454
01:14:01,160 --> 01:14:04,559
Speaker 1: like this is free and they're learning about a fairly

1455
01:14:04,680 --> 01:14:08,080
Speaker 1: great topic in a non boring way. If you'd like

1456
01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:10,880
Speaker 1: to visit me and hear more about me go to

1457
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:13,840
Speaker 1: mooch about m o O c h A b o

1458
01:14:14,120 --> 01:14:27,320
Speaker 1: U T or else. For more podcasts from I heart Radio,

1459
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:31,200
Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1460
01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:41,760
Speaker 1: we get your podcasts. The coin Viera podcast is a

1461
01:14:41,760 --> 01:15:05,160
Speaker 1: production of I heart Radio. Pots going on n