Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.
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Speaker 3: dot com. Good morning, everybody, Happy Monday. Have an amazing
Speaker 3: show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal?
Speaker 2: Indeed, we do a lot of breaking news, so we're
Speaker 2: tracking the fallout after Dems caved and Schumer helped the
Speaker 2: Republicans pass their budget. New polling there too as well,
Speaker 2: and I'm interested to get Sager's take on how all
Speaker 2: of this went down, since Ryan and Emily talked about
Speaker 2: it some on and myself talked about it.
Speaker 4: I'm on Friday.
Speaker 2: We also have some pretty stunning new reporting from the
Speaker 2: Kamala campaign about Joe biden interventions there and his demands
Speaker 2: on her, and also how pathetically she just accepted them.
Speaker 2: So we'll get into all of that. Trump appeared over
Speaker 2: the weekend to openly defy a court order with regard
Speaker 2: to his invocation of the Alien Enemies Act of seventeen
Speaker 2: ninety eight, So we will break all of those details
Speaker 2: down for you. We've got some new economic numbers. The
Speaker 2: consumer sentiment index plunged significantly. We've got Scott Besstt, the
Speaker 2: Treasury Secretary, out there saying stock market corrections are normal,
Speaker 2: don't worry about it. So obviously keeping our eye on
Speaker 2: that as well. Trump announced massive strikes against the Houthis
Speaker 2: and they are claiming retaliation. Zionists are getting some wins
Speaker 2: in Trump administration staffing. This is one that SOCCER has
Speaker 2: been tracking really closely, and I'm taking a look at
Speaker 2: the way that anti Semitism is being weaponized in order
Speaker 2: to facilitate Trump's power grab.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, unfortunately, there's probably you could probably talk about
Speaker 3: that one for like forty five.
Speaker 4: Minutes, or it was hard to narrow down the mood
Speaker 4: law not.
Speaker 1: Put in the monologue. Looking forward to that.
Speaker 3: Thank you to everybody who's been subscribing to the show,
Speaker 3: we really appreciate it. We've got five days a week
Speaker 3: of coverage now here on breaking points. I hope everybody
Speaker 3: is enjoying that. But yeah, let's talk about the Democrats.
Speaker 3: There's a lot to break down here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, you guys know, there was a whole thing
Speaker 2: last week. Democrats had to in the Senate, had to
Speaker 2: help Republicans to pass this budget, otherwise the government was
Speaker 2: going to shut down. This was really the only point
Speaker 2: of leverage that Democrats have with Republicans for the foreseeable future.
Speaker 2: And yet, in spite of that, and in spite of
Speaker 2: the fact that you know, Democrats and myself believe that
Speaker 2: there's this authoritarian power graph going on, they decided they
Speaker 2: would cave, led by Chuck Schumer and actually Kirsten Jillibrand
Speaker 2: kind of interesting, the two senators from New York home
Speaker 2: of Wall Street, where the two that led the charge
Speaker 2: to cave. And of course we'll have the economic numbers
Speaker 2: in a moment to show you why they may have
Speaker 2: been super concerned about.
Speaker 4: A government shutdown.
Speaker 2: But in any case, in the wake of that, we
Speaker 2: have some new polling numbers about how people feel about
Speaker 2: Democrats and how they are doing in this new Trump
Speaker 2: era two point zero and those numbers are pretty grim.
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen.
Speaker 5: American's favorable views of the Democratic Party's brand are at
Speaker 5: a record low just twenty nine percent. That's compared to
Speaker 5: thirty six percent for Republicans. It is the lowest ever
Speaker 5: recorded for Democrats and CNN polling going back more than
Speaker 5: thirty years. As you can see, the party's numbers dropping
Speaker 5: a staggering twenty points in just four years. The CNNSRSRS
Speaker 5: poll also found fifty seven percent of Democrats and Democratic
Speaker 5: leaning voters are more interested in seeing their party leaders
Speaker 5: stop the GOP agenda, compared to forty two percent who
Speaker 5: are more interested in cutting bipartisan deals. It is a
Speaker 5: big shift from where the party stood at the start
Speaker 5: of Trump's first term in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we have a graphic of that last piece
Speaker 2: just to put back up on the screen, because I
Speaker 2: think this is a really important point, the way that
Speaker 2: the Democratic base has moved in terms of what they
Speaker 2: want to see on the party. So back in April
Speaker 2: of twenty seventeen, this might actually surprise you because it's
Speaker 2: remembered as a time, a sort of peakd Trump resistance.
Speaker 2: But at that time you still had a majority of
Speaker 2: Democrats fifty nine percent who said what they wanted to
Speaker 2: see Democrats in Congress do was to make compromise with
Speaker 2: Trump to gain consensus on legislation, versus thirty three percent
Speaker 2: saying they need to stick to their positions even if
Speaker 2: it means not getting things done. Now that has completely reversed,
Speaker 2: sixty five percent of Democrats want the party to stand
Speaker 2: up to Trump and stick to their positions, even if
Speaker 2: it means grinding the gears to a hold. And a
Speaker 2: lot of that movement with regard to listen, Democrats are
Speaker 2: just not popular across the board. A lot of the
Speaker 2: movement in terms of their approval rating falling off Sager
Speaker 2: comes from within their own party, where people are incredibly
Speaker 2: dissatisfied with the weakness and the failures of Democratic leaders
Speaker 2: like Chuck Schumer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's absolutely fascinating to see their internals, their internal
Speaker 3: thinking inside of the party.
Speaker 1: And you know, we've probably talked about.
Speaker 3: It here at nauseum, but probably a lot of our
Speaker 3: viewers may not have been really watching a lot or
Speaker 3: involved in politics back in the twenty ten period. This
Speaker 3: is exactly what at the Republican base wanted to see
Speaker 3: from its leaders against Obama.
Speaker 1: And the thing is about Mitch McConnell.
Speaker 3: He may be an establishment type, he actually read the
Speaker 3: moment incredibly well.
Speaker 1: In two thousand and nine.
Speaker 4: In that first interview he was as Javellian. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: They asked him, they said, okay, so what is your
Speaker 3: strategy to deal with Barack Obama? And he said, our
Speaker 3: goal is to get Barack Obama to not win reelection
Speaker 3: in two thousand twelve. Now, obviously they failed, but their
Speaker 3: theory was just this president, no matter what he puts
Speaker 3: in front of us, we are going to slow this
Speaker 3: thing down. No matter what, we will use the full
Speaker 3: exercise of the United States Senate and our majority that
Speaker 3: we have to make sure that we hold things up.
Speaker 3: There's no more business as usual in a lot of ways,
Speaker 3: like it kind of reinvented the Washington mold in that regard.
Speaker 3: So what the Democrats want to see is at this
Speaker 3: point too, if you are a Democrat and you're a
Speaker 3: quote unquote playing by the rules, you are a bit
Speaker 3: of a fool. No, I mean, twenty ten was a
Speaker 3: long time ago. It's been fifteen years at this point
Speaker 3: for you to adapt. The only thing that I like
Speaker 3: somewhat sympathetic to is that these establishment Democrats are not
Speaker 3: wrong that if they had shut down the government, Trump
Speaker 3: and Elon and them would have used it as a
Speaker 3: pretext to basically just pick who would be the essential
Speaker 3: government workers and who is not. Now the counter to that,
Speaker 3: which is also correct, is well, that's basically why they're
Speaker 3: doing So what's the point. From a pure statistical political
Speaker 3: calculus point of view, I think that just for their
Speaker 3: own outcome, they probably should have shut down the government
Speaker 3: because I don't first of all, the Democratic base.
Speaker 1: Would have been with them.
Speaker 3: Second, I mean, again, I'm not advocating for this. I
Speaker 3: don't think it'd be a good thing. But the economy
Speaker 3: would continue to be bad. Like stock markets always crash
Speaker 3: whenever there's a shutdown, people downgrade our debt. There'd be
Speaker 3: a lot more questions about the debt ceiling and fights
Speaker 3: like that in the future. Overall, the stocks definitely would
Speaker 3: have fallen. It would have only fed more into an
Speaker 3: economic collapse narrative that would obviously, I think, be beneficial
Speaker 3: to the Democrats.
Speaker 1: Republicans did actually kind of want to shut down.
Speaker 3: Apparently Trump and them were looking for a shutdown in
Speaker 3: some ways because they thought they would win that fight.
Speaker 3: I don't think that's ever the case that anytime a
Speaker 3: party in power has all three branches of government. It's
Speaker 3: just it's ridiculous to think that you're not going to
Speaker 3: get the overall blame from the American people.
Speaker 1: So I really have no idea kind of which way.
Speaker 3: But I get where the establishment Dems and all them
Speaker 3: were coming from. But it is a profound political misreading
Speaker 3: of the moment. But because that's they're trying to do
Speaker 3: business as usual, whereas it's clearly the Trump administration is
Speaker 3: not really interested in that, and the Democrat base is
Speaker 3: also not really interested in that.
Speaker 1: So it's like an old gasp, I think of something.
Speaker 1: Do I think it will happen again?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 4: Not after all of this, you don't think so, I
Speaker 4: don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, here's the thing, it's like trust humor. First
Speaker 2: of all, I think he cannot update his mental model
Speaker 2: to adjust for what you just described. We are no
Speaker 2: longer in politics as usual. This is not some normal
Speaker 2: like back and forth, give and take.
Speaker 4: That's not what's going on.
Speaker 2: So I think because he is old, and because because
Speaker 2: he's been there for so long, he is incapable of
Speaker 2: really grappling with that.
Speaker 4: But we also have to say the failure here.
Speaker 2: On the Democratic leadership part started long before you got
Speaker 2: to Friday interfaced with this like yes or no vote.
Speaker 2: The failure really started when they had no plan for like, Okay,
Speaker 2: here is our demand and we are sticking to it,
Speaker 2: and we are not giving you the votes that you
Speaker 2: need Republican Party and Trump in order to pass this
Speaker 2: budget resolution without you acceding to one of our to
Speaker 2: our demands. Now, there could have been any number of
Speaker 2: demands that you make, you know, it could have been
Speaker 2: we want funding restored to the Department of Education, we
Speaker 2: want the CFPB back, we want Doge on a social
Speaker 2: security we want Elon fired, we want Elon subpoena, we
Speaker 2: want Doge to be done or have to report to come.
Speaker 2: I mean, there are thirty different things off the top
Speaker 2: of your head that you could think of that would
Speaker 2: have been reasonable demands for Democrats to make, where they
Speaker 2: would have been firmly on the side of public opinion
Speaker 2: of message, relentlessly on it, and then if the government
Speaker 2: shuts down, they say, listen, we made really clear what
Speaker 2: we needed in here. We were willing to work with Republicans.
Speaker 2: They never came to us with, you know, And here
Speaker 2: we made it really really clear what we would need.
Speaker 4: To vote for this bill. They didn't do it. That's
Speaker 4: why the government is shut down.
Speaker 2: So even the fact that you got to this vote
Speaker 2: and none of that groundwork had been laid, that's really
Speaker 2: where the ultimate.
Speaker 4: Failure lied lay.
Speaker 2: But I mean, listen, they don't have a lot of
Speaker 2: power in DC. There are only a few times where
Speaker 2: Republicans need them. This is one of the only times
Speaker 2: in sight where Republicans need them for anything. And you
Speaker 2: just pass this and you got nothing like that is
Speaker 2: utterly pathetic, pathetic, And so you know, and I think
Speaker 2: it's not just Democrats who want to see Democrats fight.
Speaker 2: There are a lot of independence down there, and we
Speaker 2: could put the next piece up on the streets. There's
Speaker 2: a lot of Trump voters who aren't super happy with
Speaker 2: what's going on and would like to see some balance
Speaker 2: brought back to DC in terms of you know, checks
Speaker 2: and balances and the opposition party acting like something other
Speaker 2: than like pathetic losers. So in this particular focus group,
Speaker 2: which you know, it's not scientific, but always interesting to
Speaker 2: hear what voters have to say. Ten of thirteen Trump
Speaker 2: voters these are people who voted for Biden and then
Speaker 2: switched to Trump, said that they were unhappy with Trump's approach.
Speaker 2: Some words that were used were erratic, frightening, disruptive, and dictator.
Speaker 2: That being said, what was it like? One of them
Speaker 2: said that they would have switched their votes to Kamala. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so even as they're very dissatisfied with Trump, Yeah, there
Speaker 2: we go. Only one of the ten Trump voters turned
Speaker 2: critics said that they would choo Kamala Harris for president
Speaker 2: if they could do it over again. And I mean,
Speaker 2: this is the risk for Democrats is like, yeah, people
Speaker 2: are increasingly souring on the Trump and Elon show in DC,
Speaker 2: but are they going to offer a sufficient enough response
Speaker 2: and appealing enough alternative that people will say, okay, but
Speaker 2: this is better than what's offered on That's.
Speaker 3: A very good point, right, is that you can be
Speaker 3: dissatisfied with your pick, but you can also say, yeah,
Speaker 3: it was still the better pick, or it is somebody
Speaker 3: who I would stick with. That was actually probably the
Speaker 3: biggest democratic problem in a nutshell we should also say,
Speaker 3: did not realize, you know, not only with the approval figure,
Speaker 3: but flagged this morning was that in that NBC News
Speaker 3: poll about approval rating, about thirty six percent approval, you'll
Speaker 3: see approved of the Republican Party, but of those they
Speaker 3: consider themselves part of the MAGA movement, which is apparently
Speaker 3: one of the highest numbers ever recorded. I think that's
Speaker 3: important from a party takeover perspective.
Speaker 1: It's this old school idea that was tested.
Speaker 3: In twenty seventeen and in twenty twenty four during the
Speaker 3: primary that it's like MAGA is not really you know, part,
Speaker 3: Maga itself is a distinct part, and it's like, no,
Speaker 3: this is a complete and total takeover of the Republican Party.
Speaker 3: So I think that is important for people to understand
Speaker 3: too in terms of where their approval for Trump will
Speaker 3: be and in terms of also how they consider themselves
Speaker 3: politically distinct from any previous iteration of the Republican Party.
Speaker 1: You did have flagged this part of Chuck Schumer.
Speaker 3: He's apparently on book tour right now, what timing, and
Speaker 3: the book is on anti Semitism.
Speaker 1: How good is that? Right? It's like check check check.
Speaker 1: In terms of all the boxes. Here he is explaining
Speaker 1: why he decided to do what he did. Let's take aalism.
Speaker 6: I knew this would be an unpopular decision. I knew
Speaker 6: that I know politics, but I felt so strongly as
Speaker 6: a leader that I couldn't let this happen because weeks
Speaker 6: and months from now things would be far worse than
Speaker 6: they even are today, that I had to do what
Speaker 6: I had to do.
Speaker 7: Can I just ask you about the tactic here, because
Speaker 7: the choice that you made to vote with the Republicans,
Speaker 7: isn't that an argument to get rid of the filibuster.
Speaker 7: You wanted to keep it when you were in the majority,
Speaker 7: But if you're not going to use it in the minority,
Speaker 7: then what's the point of it.
Speaker 6: The point here again, I'll repeat what I said would
Speaker 6: be how devastating a shutdown would be. Just think a
Speaker 6: month from now if half the federal were.
Speaker 1: But I'm asking about the use of the philibuster.
Speaker 6: No, but the bottom line is if we would have
Speaker 6: if the filibuster would have been used and the government
Speaker 6: shut down, the devastation would be terrible. The choice has
Speaker 6: been made. But I think the whole Democratic Party is
Speaker 6: united on what I mentioned in the earlier broadcast showing
Speaker 6: how bad Trump is in every way organizing. We're organizing
Speaker 6: this week and next week in Republican districts. We're having
Speaker 6: rallies to not give tax breaks to millionaires. And we're succeeding.
Speaker 6: We're succeeding, Lulu, We're bringing his numbers down.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just it was a great question. As answer
Speaker 3: is incredibly revealing. I do think everyone should really go
Speaker 3: back to the point that you were making.
Speaker 1: Is that it was obvious.
Speaker 3: This entire thing was obvious now for weeks anybody who
Speaker 3: can read the news in Washington, that means including these
Speaker 3: Senate leaders. And it's like, well, so he really had
Speaker 3: no idea Between you and Hakim Jeffreys, like what any
Speaker 3: sort of plan was. It is interesting the House Democrats
Speaker 3: were trying to cast a lot of blame on Schumer,
Speaker 3: but you know a lot of it's on them too,
Speaker 3: because looks like you were saying, if you knew this
Speaker 3: was coming down the pipeline, you needed to have some
Speaker 3: sort of strategy both for an alternative to be able
Speaker 3: to force Republicans. And actually the Republicans played their hands
Speaker 3: well at the end.
Speaker 1: What they did is they passed it and.
Speaker 3: Then they all just left town, meaning that basically the
Speaker 3: Democrats would have had to call it their bluff. If
Speaker 3: they had basically telegraphed from the future there could have
Speaker 3: been a fight. Then maybe the Republican leaders would not
Speaker 3: have felt so confident. And now you've got all the
Speaker 3: way through September. I mean, that's a long time in politics.
Speaker 3: That's nine months of the first Trump administration where he
Speaker 3: does not have to contend with a serious legislative crisis.
Speaker 3: And actually the real failure on Schumer's part is the
Speaker 3: tax bill, because now what they can do is use
Speaker 3: that tax bill and reconciliation they're in the future to
Speaker 3: basically pass it before that September deadline, meaning that this
Speaker 3: is now the ground that you have to fight on,
Speaker 3: where you've already given up any significant leverage that you
Speaker 3: once have. So it's actually maybe frankly worse than people
Speaker 3: may think, because if you hadn't just done let's say
Speaker 3: a thirty day extend of spending, you could continue to
Speaker 3: use that as leverage over a future tax negotiation. Now
Speaker 3: you have nothing, and the Republicans have united control of government.
Speaker 3: They can use the reconciliation package and they don't even
Speaker 3: need to look at you anymore.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, and it's it's not just the leverage. Jeff
Speaker 2: Stein actually did the best reporting on this in the CR.
Speaker 4: This actually hands Trump and.
Speaker 2: It's not really accurate to call it a CR because
Speaker 2: the Continuing Resolution is usually just the previous budget levels.
Speaker 2: This was not just the previous budget previous budget levels.
Speaker 2: This cut domestic spending, a raised defense spending. It had
Speaker 2: different provisions in it the Republicans wanted, like not having
Speaker 2: to vote on Trump's tariff agenda. But also inherent in
Speaker 2: this legislation is handing more power to the executive And
Speaker 2: so it's not just leverage. It's also a matter of
Speaker 2: fact and reality that, you know, the one place and we'll.
Speaker 4: Talk about this more later in the show.
Speaker 2: The one place where there has been some effective effort
Speaker 2: to you know, block and steiny the Trump and Elon,
Speaker 2: you know, take down the government approach has been in
Speaker 2: the court system, and you are cutting out some of
Speaker 2: the legal arguments you can make against them in court
Speaker 2: by signing on to this budget resolution. So that was
Speaker 2: the other part of this that was really incredibly important.
Speaker 2: What is so different here from the Trump one point
Speaker 2: zero in the Democratic Party approach really is the way
Speaker 2: that liberals are so disgusted with leadership. And you know,
Speaker 2: to Soccer's point about the House Democrats being pissed off
Speaker 2: at Schumer, we're not just talking about AOC here. Yes,
Speaker 2: AOC was pissed off, but there were moderate Democrats who
Speaker 2: reportedly were ready to write AOC checks to primary Chuck Schumer.
Speaker 2: Why because they felt like they got hung out to dry.
Speaker 2: They felt like, if you're in a swing district, you're
Speaker 2: facing a tough reelect. They felt like they took a
Speaker 2: tough vote to vote against this. I'm not really sure
Speaker 2: it was that tough of a vote. Ultimately, if it's
Speaker 2: going to be like that politically perils for them, but
Speaker 2: that's the way they felt about it. And then they
Speaker 2: felt they were made to quote walk the plank by
Speaker 2: Chuck Schumer. So they were furious at how they were
Speaker 2: sort of hung out to dry here, and so there's
Speaker 2: rebellion within the Democratic Caucus. I mean, it was astonishing.
Speaker 2: Hakeem Jeffries got asked the question like, hey, do you
Speaker 2: think Chuck Schumer should continue here in leadership and he
Speaker 2: said no comment, very pointedly no comment. Asked about it
Speaker 2: multiple times, would not say that he has confidence in
Speaker 2: Chuck Schuer, but that Chuck Schumer should continue to lead.
Speaker 2: I mean that in and of itself is quite extraordinary.
Speaker 2: Another extraordinary thing that happened is that Nancy Pelosi came
Speaker 2: out against Chuck Schumer and was like, no, Democrats should
Speaker 2: vote against this and they should shut it down. They
Speaker 2: should listen to the women's Now she didn't name him specifically,
Speaker 2: but obviously we all know this was, you know, quite
Speaker 2: a confrontational approach for her to take as well, putting
Speaker 2: that out. And so you've got a couple of organizations
Speaker 2: You've got past the torch. These are the people who
Speaker 2: sort of mobilized to try to push Biden out of
Speaker 2: the race after that disastrous debate performance, and put this
Speaker 2: up on the screen. They're calling for Schumer to resign.
Speaker 2: You know, that's significant. So you've them using their resources,
Speaker 2: their list whatever to push this messaging. And then you
Speaker 2: also have Indivisible, which is kind of the pre eminent
Speaker 2: liberal resistance group, which ended up being an adversarial to
Speaker 2: some of the like burning type primary candidates you know,
Speaker 2: over the years, etc. So these are liberals, right, rock
Speaker 2: solid democratic liberals who are also calling on Schumer to
Speaker 2: step aside, and then the Midas Touch folks have been
Speaker 2: quite aggressively critical of Schumer and are telling Democrats to quote,
Speaker 2: grow a spine. Let's go ahead and take a listen
Speaker 2: to what they had to say.
Speaker 8: Democrats need to use their leverage to stop what Trump
Speaker 8: and Musk and Doge are doing. Use every leverage point.
Speaker 8: Americans want fighters, not this crap, not caving. Grow a spine,
Speaker 8: vote against cloture, vote against the cr The American people
Speaker 8: are with you. And how do we know that because
Speaker 8: across the country, people in red areas, blue areas, purple
Speaker 8: areas are rising up at this hostile government takeover. We
Speaker 8: know what is happening. We know Musk is gutting Medicaid.
Speaker 8: We know Musk says that Social Security is a Ponzi scheme,
Speaker 8: and he's firing most of the people who work at
Speaker 8: the Social Security Administration. People see the government buildings shutting down.
Speaker 8: We see the Trump regime firing veterans, getting rid of
Speaker 8: the workers seventy thousand workers at the VA, getting rid
Speaker 8: of critical government infrastructure, sinking our economy. We must take
Speaker 8: a stand. We must use the leverage that we the
Speaker 8: people have to stop the hostile government, takeover, reconsider immediately,
Speaker 8: stop being spineless, fight for the people, stop.
Speaker 2: Being spineless, and might as such is really sort of
Speaker 2: like the beating heart of the Democratic Party base.
Speaker 4: At this point.
Speaker 2: They've had an astronomical growth in terms of their ratings.
Speaker 2: By some metrics, they are the number one podcast in
Speaker 2: the world, and you know, much at the expense of
Speaker 2: the MSNBC's and the CNNs and even the like Washington
Speaker 2: Posts in New York Times. So when they're coming out
Speaker 2: so aggressively against Democratic leadership, that is a significant indicator exactly.
Speaker 3: You know, somebody sent me something showing about their podcast statistics,
Speaker 3: and I think the answer is, it's like, okay, if
Speaker 3: it's not number one, how about this. It's just big channel.
Speaker 3: You know, it's four point five million subscribers on YouTube.
Speaker 3: These guys are racking up literally millions and millions of views.
Speaker 3: On top of people like Brian Tyler Cohen and other
Speaker 3: who we interviewed previously. People should go and watch that
Speaker 3: just to get a sense of kind of who these
Speaker 3: new thought leaders are in the Democratic Party and or
Speaker 3: really just like who people are abandoning liberal media for.
Speaker 3: It's not always you know, conservative influencers.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 3: So I do think that generally it's important for people
Speaker 3: to take this in and to see politically where the
Speaker 3: mood is going to go. But you know, the part
Speaker 3: of the issue is with timing and with leverage. It's like, well,
Speaker 3: what can you now really do in the future. Kick
Speaker 3: the can down the road to September. You can try
Speaker 3: and block the tax bill, It's not going to work
Speaker 3: because of the way that reconciliation and all that is
Speaker 3: in nine months is just an eternity, or it's six
Speaker 3: months or whatever is an eternity in politics. You see,
Speaker 3: who knows how much things could change in the meantime.
Speaker 3: Now is definitely the time they missed it. They're not
Speaker 3: going to have some grand showdown moment now for quite
Speaker 3: some time. I wouldn't put a pass Republicans to try
Speaker 3: and you know, attach a CR or something like that
Speaker 3: to a tax bill and kick this even further. They
Speaker 3: could even hitch the debt ceiling or something like that
Speaker 3: to reconcil it, to take away even more leverage points.
Speaker 3: By that time, you're in the midterms. And if this
Speaker 3: is all you have till the midterms, good luck to you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well, and I think that the people like
Speaker 2: might have touched in many others who were saying, grows fine,
Speaker 2: and you know, vote against this and shut it down.
Speaker 2: I think we're also immediately vindicated because what happened literally
Speaker 2: that night could put this up.
Speaker 4: On the screen.
Speaker 2: Trump move forward with gutting seven more agencies and issue
Speaker 2: in an executive order saying that you know, they should
Speaker 2: be effectively ended to the greatest extent possible. And like
Speaker 2: I was saying, you know, part of the argument against
Speaker 2: voting for this was that it handed more power to
Speaker 2: the Trump administration to take unilateral action. It strips away
Speaker 2: some of the legal arguments that you know, democratic allies
Speaker 2: can make in court against these sorts of things. And
Speaker 2: so the fact that they vote for this and then
Speaker 2: immediately Trump issues this executive order, that's like, you know,
Speaker 2: seven more agencies are toast. These were all, you know,
Speaker 2: relatively small agencies, but still obviously quite significant. I think
Speaker 2: that really immediately vindicated those who thought that the Democrats
Speaker 2: took the wrong strategy here and really should have stood
Speaker 2: up and fought and fought. The last thing I'll say
Speaker 2: is this is something we've touched on before. You know,
Speaker 2: the upset at Democratic leadership. First of all, it's across
Speaker 2: the board ideologically, it's really it's being painted sometimes and
Speaker 2: the media is like a left is their progressives or
Speaker 2: you know, the left is upset at democratic leadership. That's
Speaker 2: just not an accurate way to characterize it at this
Speaker 2: point because even within the Democratic House Caucus you have
Speaker 2: moderates who are very unhappy with the lack of leadership here.
Speaker 2: You know it, I wish it had more of an
Speaker 2: ideological valance to it, that there was more sort of
Speaker 2: like progressive ideology behind the revolt, but it's not. It's
Speaker 2: literally tactical. It's like, we want you to fight. We
Speaker 2: feel like our country is being taken away from us
Speaker 2: in real time. We feel like they are not operating
Speaker 2: by the rules, and you all are pretending like you're
Speaker 2: back in like nineteen eighty two and making deals and
Speaker 2: cutting deals across the aisle like that is just not
Speaker 2: going to work in this era, not to mention how
Speaker 2: out of touch they seem with all of their sort
Speaker 2: of like media outreach efforts, et cetera. So that really
Speaker 2: is the core of the upset at democratic leadership is
Speaker 2: not so much ideological, it's tactical. It's we want you
Speaker 2: to grow a spine, we want you to fight, We
Speaker 2: want you to prove to us that you actually care
Speaker 2: about what's happening right now in the way that we do.
Speaker 2: So this will be an important story to continue to
Speaker 2: watch as the Democratic Party figures it's way itself.
Speaker 4: Ount I necessarily I want.
Speaker 3: To see some primaries, though I want to because I
Speaker 3: haven't seen any announcements, you know, in the same way
Speaker 3: by this time or well, it's not really fair, but
Speaker 3: I guess if we're going to compare Doge and the
Speaker 3: liberal base is reaction to Obamacare, which was a little
Speaker 3: bit later in the administration during the first term. That's
Speaker 3: when those announcements for primary started to spring up. But
Speaker 3: I was checking, and I haven't seen any like real
Speaker 3: I mean, somebody always profiles or sorry, primaries, Nancy Pelosi
Speaker 3: plot twist. It never works out like somebody always primaries.
Speaker 1: I don't know Mansion or somebody like that. He's gone.
Speaker 3: So we need to see actual, like primary action for
Speaker 3: somebody who's up this time around, and then we need
Speaker 3: to see that level of like grassroots money that's inflowing
Speaker 3: it is I mean, if what was the whole beef
Speaker 3: with AOC over oversight where she promised not to primary
Speaker 3: people even if she still didn't get it. So the
Speaker 3: the problem is is like they're they're boxed into a
Speaker 3: corner a little bit.
Speaker 1: I'm curious to see if they're going to break away
Speaker 1: from that.
Speaker 3: If you really want to have some power in the
Speaker 3: next Congress, that's the only way that it's going to happen.
Speaker 3: The only reason the Tea Party ever got taken seriously
Speaker 3: is because they were able to take out literally the
Speaker 3: number two Republican in the country. People should just remember
Speaker 3: how insane stuff like that can be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that was the idea behind the Justice Democrats,
Speaker 2: which of course Kyle was involved in the founding of,
Speaker 2: was that you would get some of these renegades in
Speaker 2: there who didn't owe their loyalty to the traditional democratic
Speaker 2: party system, and they would be adversarial to leadership in
Speaker 2: the same way that the Tea Party was adversarial to
Speaker 2: Republican leadership.
Speaker 4: And the Tea.
Speaker 2: Party and the you know, Freedom Caucus and these successive
Speaker 2: like Tea Party esque parts of the Republican Party, they
Speaker 2: have wielded disproportionate amount of power because they understood you
Speaker 2: only need a small number who will in a band
Speaker 2: together and gum things up and you can.
Speaker 4: Get a lot.
Speaker 2: You can actually extract a lot, but your threat has
Speaker 2: to be credible, and so you know they did. They
Speaker 2: were able to successfully primariously AOC and Joe Crowley being
Speaker 2: the most prominent example, but Corey Bush is able to
Speaker 2: get in their Jamal Bowman. These are all people, you know,
Speaker 2: challenging incumbent Democrats and being able to be successful.
Speaker 4: But then that second piece of being.
Speaker 2: Adversarial towards leadership that never came, and they were never
Speaker 2: able to really you know, use their power as some
Speaker 2: sort of cohesive group. They more acted as just like
Speaker 2: you know, standard individual members with individual viewpoints, et cetera.
Speaker 2: The fact that you now have the base pushing in
Speaker 2: this direction and you have again moderates even within the
Speaker 2: Democratic Caucus who are saying, primary, Chuck Schumer, we've got
Speaker 2: your back, et cetera, it's a different landscape that could
Speaker 2: create more courage among elected leaders to be more adversarial
Speaker 2: towards leadership. And in fact we've already seen that. I
Speaker 2: mean even with AOC herself, she's been quite aggressively critical
Speaker 2: of Chuck Schumer in this moment in a way that
Speaker 2: we really haven't heard her, you know, be critical of
Speaker 2: Nancy Pelosi or other Democratic leaders in the past. So
Speaker 2: we'll see you now, you know, like Zager says, we've
Speaker 2: got to see how this all shakes down and are
Speaker 2: their real primaries and do they succeed and how does
Speaker 2: this all come together? But I can tell you right
Speaker 2: now the landscape is so different in the Democratic Party
Speaker 2: and among you know who they're looking to also in
Speaker 2: terms of their media.
Speaker 4: Than it was previously.
Speaker 2: Absolutely all right, let's get to this reporting from the
Speaker 2: Harris campaign and Biden's involvement. This is from a new
Speaker 2: book coming out from Jonathan Allen and Amy Parts, two
Speaker 2: great reporters.
Speaker 4: We're going to have him on.
Speaker 2: The show to talk about this book as well and
Speaker 2: get even more details of what all went down within
Speaker 2: the Kamal campaign. But they released this excerpt. We can
Speaker 2: put this up on the screen. So they are looking
Speaker 2: at this core question of like, why the hell did
Speaker 2: this woman not separate herself from Joe Biden, who was
Speaker 2: clearly like like that was one of the core failures
Speaker 2: of this campaign.
Speaker 4: So let me go ahead and read this.
Speaker 2: They say that Kamala's rallies and convention speech had not
Speaker 2: answered the question of why she was running for president,
Speaker 2: how her vision for the country would deliver for voters
Speaker 2: other than having.
Speaker 4: Been next in line.
Speaker 2: She was running out of major moments to explain a
Speaker 2: vision to a broad audience. Her September tenth debate with
Speaker 2: Trump would offer another opportunity, perhaps the last chance before
Speaker 2: voters cast early ballots, to establish that key part of
Speaker 2: her narrative.
Speaker 4: But the day of the.
Speaker 2: Debate, Biden called to give Harris an unusual kind of
Speaker 2: pet talk and another reminder about the loyalty he demanded.
Speaker 2: No longer able to defend his own record, he expected
Speaker 2: Harris to protect his legacy. It goes on whether she
Speaker 2: won or lost the election. He thought she would only
Speaker 2: harm him publicly distancing herself from him, especially during a
Speaker 2: debate that would be watched by millions of Americans, to
Speaker 2: the extent that she wanted to forge her own path,
Speaker 2: Biden had no interest in giving her room to do so.
Speaker 2: He needed just three words to convey how much all
Speaker 2: of that mattered to him. No daylight, kid, Biden said,
Speaker 2: And apparently this is something he said to her repeatedly.
Speaker 2: In addition, she had Remember, she just basically took over
Speaker 2: the Biden slot with the Biden campaign out of Delaware.
Speaker 2: So she had all of these Biden staffers around her
Speaker 2: who were also interested in preserving his quote unquote legacy.
Speaker 2: They talk in this in this excerpt, there's an anecdote
Speaker 2: where they were in some other kind of for an
Speaker 2: interview and she started ticking off like, here's all the
Speaker 2: great things that Biden did, blah blah bla. And one
Speaker 2: of the staffers was like, let's not do the whole
Speaker 2: trip down memory lane.
Speaker 4: That Stapfer was.
Speaker 2: Never invited back to the one who actually had a
Speaker 2: good idea. That one was cut out and never invited
Speaker 2: back here. So, I mean, there's two things to say
Speaker 2: about this. Number One, Biden, what a shitty person, What
Speaker 2: a narcissistic person? Like what a liar that you actually
Speaker 2: care about defeating Trei? Like you cared more about your
Speaker 2: own ego preservation than actually defeating the guy that you
Speaker 2: said was, you know, a fascist and authoritarian threat to
Speaker 2: the country.
Speaker 4: How pathetic is that? Number Two?
Speaker 2: How pathetic is it the Kama will listen like, ultimately,
Speaker 2: she's the primary actor. She got to do what she wanted.
Speaker 2: She could have run the campaign however she went she
Speaker 2: wanted to. When that Stafford got cut out, it should
Speaker 2: have been like, no, actually you are cut out, Stephanie Cutter,
Speaker 2: the person who you know was leading the charge. There,
Speaker 2: you're out. This person's in. I need to shake this up.
Speaker 2: I need to listen to people who are actually going
Speaker 2: to give me good advice in order to win this campaign,
Speaker 2: rather than to protect the feelings of you know, an elderly,
Speaker 2: senile old man.
Speaker 3: I completely agree. That's I was thinking about it. If
Speaker 3: you think in the past, this is always attention when
Speaker 3: vice presidents run again while their incumbent president is in office,
Speaker 3: President vice President Nixon in nineteen sixty Al Gore, George H. W. Bush,
Speaker 3: and in all cases though, I still think they did
Speaker 3: a better job of distinguishing themselves, yeah, from their person
Speaker 3: that they were in.
Speaker 1: And those people were.
Speaker 3: Actually popular as opposed to Biden. I mean, if you
Speaker 3: think about it just in terms of like peer nuts
Speaker 3: and bolts, not only has Biden dropped out of the race,
Speaker 3: which puts him at a way weaker position than any
Speaker 3: of those presidents previously literal two termers who were pretty popular,
Speaker 3: they also have a situation where he's a senile old man.
Speaker 3: He's going to be gone in a decade. I don't
Speaker 3: wish for that to happen, but you know, statistically more
Speaker 3: it's very likely. So what are you waiting for? Like,
Speaker 3: these mistakes were literally so high. If you're a liberal,
Speaker 3: you got crushed. I mean, you basically uctured in a
Speaker 3: new era of American government. I think that's great, but
Speaker 3: you know, you guys told us that was horrible. It
Speaker 3: was a terrible thing. And could you really imagine any
Speaker 3: Republican vice president you need a similar circumstance who wasn't
Speaker 3: willing to do that. I mean even John McCain was
Speaker 3: more critical of George W. Bush when he was running
Speaker 3: in two thousand and eight than Kamala Harris was. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I think this shows a profound lack of.
Speaker 1: Courage, both on the walls and the Kamala campaign front.
Speaker 1: You can't say that you were hamstrung by Biden. It's
Speaker 1: just not true.
Speaker 3: I mean, the vast majority of the money that came
Speaker 3: in to the campaign came in.
Speaker 1: After Biden dropped out. It really was on her name alone.
Speaker 3: Now, I think she was a terrible candidate, and the
Speaker 3: fundamental flaw from the very beginning. I think we've talked
Speaker 3: about this at the time, is why are you keeping
Speaker 3: all these idiot Biden staff and like they're terrible, right.
Speaker 1: You could spin up something new.
Speaker 3: You got oceans one billion, one point five billion dollars
Speaker 3: at your disposal. You need to really try and draw
Speaker 3: a contrast. And I think she lost. I mean, look,
Speaker 3: I don't think she ever really had a chance because
Speaker 3: of Biden, but she almost certainly really lost in that
Speaker 3: view interview when she was like, can't think of anything
Speaker 3: that I would have done to it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like that's it.
Speaker 6: It was.
Speaker 3: I mean, how many times we say that here America
Speaker 3: does not want this period, So it's it's just loser
Speaker 3: all the way around here.
Speaker 2: They thought that the fact that she, you know, was
Speaker 2: a looked different, was a different race, was younger, whatever,
Speaker 2: they thought that would stand in for her being different
Speaker 2: for Biden.
Speaker 4: That was their theory.
Speaker 2: Genuinely, that was their theory. And I think, you know,
Speaker 2: to me, like she should have brought in her own people.
Speaker 2: I think you're right about that.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I mean you can kind of sympathy Ari.
Speaker 2: We have this very short period of time, there's already
Speaker 2: a campaign in a box. I just gotta go with
Speaker 2: kind of what I got here. But the prom with
Speaker 2: Kamala has always been that she doesn't have her own
Speaker 2: political sense and judgment, and you saw this in her
Speaker 2: twenty twenty primary campaign.
Speaker 4: They were always you know.
Speaker 2: Changing the messaging with the seasons. As one staff or
Speaker 2: put it, she needed she was for Medicare for all. No,
Speaker 2: she's against Medicare for all. No, she has her own thing. Oh,
Speaker 2: I didn't answer that.
Speaker 4: I was laughing. I didn't understand the question. I changed
Speaker 4: my mind.
Speaker 2: She just she doesn't have her own core number one
Speaker 2: and her own political gut instinct.
Speaker 4: Of what she should do and where she should be.
Speaker 2: So if she kept the same staffers, but she was like, guys,
Speaker 2: it's an idiotic idea for me to think that just
Speaker 2: because I'm a woman, that I'm going to be seen
Speaker 2: as different and a break from Biden when I was
Speaker 2: literally part of this administration, Like.
Speaker 4: That is foolish. And every poll shows that the biggest
Speaker 4: liability I have is this dude.
Speaker 2: So we got to come up with something better than this.
Speaker 2: Like she could have done that with the staffers that
Speaker 2: she had, but she didn't. And you know, again, this
Speaker 2: is stuff. We talked about sort of at nauseum during
Speaker 2: the campaign about how when you don't have your own
Speaker 2: view of the world that you can articulate so that
Speaker 2: you can make make sense to other people. When you
Speaker 2: have reporters like just nine who was like trying to like,
Speaker 2: what would you actually do and we never actually really
Speaker 2: knew what the priority would be on day one, then
Speaker 2: you're not going to come across as authentic to people.
Speaker 2: They're not going to believe anything you see really, and
Speaker 2: you know, you end up in full ridiculous situations like
Speaker 2: this where Biden says no distance skin You're like, yes, sir, sure,
Speaker 2: let me just tank my campaign, and you know, hand
Speaker 2: the country to a bunch of fascists by not separating
Speaker 2: myself or you.
Speaker 4: Another instance of.
Speaker 2: A sort of weak, weak democratic answering here, Katie Porter
Speaker 2: is running for governor in California.
Speaker 4: I like Katie Porter.
Speaker 2: I think she did a lot of good stuff when
Speaker 2: she was here in DC. You know, she was one
Speaker 2: of the few people she really has an understanding of
Speaker 2: sort of like Wall Street and banking, and she was pretty,
Speaker 2: you know, pretty committed to standing up against corporate abuses.
Speaker 2: Is someone you know, Matt Stoller has really appreciates Hetera too.
Speaker 4: But she gets asked this question.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's say that Kamala Harris gets into the governor's race,
Speaker 2: and this is a pot Save America interview, what happens then?
Speaker 2: And she's basically like, yeah, I'll pretty much just get
Speaker 2: out and defer to her.
Speaker 4: Let's take and listen to what she has to say.
Speaker 9: There rumors that the vice president may get in the race.
Speaker 1: Later.
Speaker 9: I I saw some reporting that you said that that
Speaker 9: the vice president might clear the field, and I was
Speaker 9: surprised to see that one of your advisors apparently told
Speaker 9: CNN that you wouldn't run against Kamala.
Speaker 1: Is that true?
Speaker 10: Well, so listen what I've said, and what I'm gonna
Speaker 10: say again today is that I think if Kamala comes
Speaker 10: into this race, especially if she comes in tomorrow, she
Speaker 10: comes in now, it's going to have a near field
Speaker 10: clearing effect. It's just going to be well, I'm not
Speaker 10: sure who all. There's a big field of people, and
Speaker 10: some of them have said they're staying in no matter what, right,
Speaker 10: So I think it's going to shake up the field
Speaker 10: lace and it's going to have a sort of a
Speaker 10: seismic effect that said, we got to start this process. Now,
Speaker 10: Kamala's going to make her decision in her own time.
Speaker 10: The vice president is owed that that's her decision to make.
Speaker 10: And I've worked with her. I know that she's a
Speaker 10: careful decision maker, She's a thinker, and so she's going
Speaker 10: to make her decision. But in the meantime, it is
Speaker 10: full speed ahead voters. I'm not waiting around, and I
Speaker 10: don't think voters are waiting around.
Speaker 1: Well. They want to know how we're going to lead.
Speaker 10: They want to make plans for what we're going to
Speaker 10: do with regard to Trump, and so I think there's
Speaker 10: a hunger for people to lead in this moment, and
Speaker 10: I'm stepping up.
Speaker 9: I'm like, honestly, like what I expect from as someone
Speaker 9: who admires and respects you as a leader and a
Speaker 9: political figure. I'm surprised you're not saying, I don't care
Speaker 9: what Kamala Harris does, I will be the best governor.
Speaker 9: Like that's what I don't That's what it's confusing to me, Like,
Speaker 9: I isn't the person that's supposed to lead this big
Speaker 9: fracture state. The person who Sayskamla can get in who
Speaker 9: I don't give a fuck. I'm gonna if she gets
Speaker 9: an Albeter. Well, I'm not sure that are leaders. People
Speaker 9: want to hear our leader saying, well.
Speaker 1: You would say it. I'm not. I have to see
Speaker 1: it right district form my vibe. But I do think.
Speaker 10: Look, I am not waiting for Kamala Harris, and I
Speaker 10: don't think anyone should who wants to lead. I think
Speaker 10: what it means to lead is to literally step forward right,
Speaker 10: to be willing to be at the tip of the
Speaker 10: spear in this moment. That's exactly why I'm launching. That's
Speaker 10: why I've been working on this. I am not sitting
Speaker 10: back waiting to see what Kamala does. I am not
Speaker 10: considering other races hedging my bet I'm going to be
Speaker 10: California's next governor. But it would also be I think,
Speaker 10: disrespectful to somebody who went toe to toe month after
Speaker 10: month after month in a grueling race against Donald Trump.
Speaker 10: And and I saw this firsthand personally serve California very
Speaker 10: very ably as our attorney general. Not to acknowledge that
Speaker 10: this is somebody who would be an incredibly strong candidate.
Speaker 10: And there are practical realities that anyone faces.
Speaker 4: I mean, what is with this deference, like make the
Speaker 4: case for yourself.
Speaker 2: If you want to run for governor, you got to
Speaker 2: be able to say I would be the best person.
Speaker 2: Here's why you can say I respect Kamalin, but we
Speaker 2: have a different view. And here's why I think I
Speaker 2: should be the fighter that California deserves. Like this is
Speaker 2: not hard and yet you know, I mean, it reminds
Speaker 2: me of also Hakeem Jeffreys getting asked about Eric Adams,
Speaker 2: who is like wildly unpopular in New York City, and
Speaker 2: even then he can't say, you know, I think maybe
Speaker 2: he should resign since he's been caught in these like
Speaker 2: naked corruption scandals. Like what is with this deferential bend
Speaker 2: the knee, avoid controversy at all costs, And they're always
Speaker 2: trying to think rather than say what they really think.
Speaker 2: They're always trying to figure out how to get the
Speaker 2: right answer, and that comes through you can see her
Speaker 2: processing in real time, like Okay, well, I don't want
Speaker 2: to piss off this constituency and you know she was
Speaker 2: this historic trailblazer, and but I want to assert myself
Speaker 2: and it just ends up as this mess rather than
Speaker 2: just saying Listen, Kamala Harris is gonna do what she's
Speaker 2: gonna do. But here's that's why I think I will
Speaker 2: be the strongest candidate for governor and I will be
Speaker 2: the next governor in California.
Speaker 4: Like, I just don't get it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like you're living in a cult. That's what
Speaker 3: it is. You're living in a cult of deference. And
Speaker 3: just imagine, American politics is not really supposed to work
Speaker 3: that way. Now, it's a little ironic for people to
Speaker 3: talk about that on the Trump side, but you know,
Speaker 3: to his credit, he did win. He won the primary
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four, and he won the presidency, and
Speaker 3: so you know, in a certain way, he's like earned
Speaker 3: his status, whereas Kamala is literally the worst performing Democratic
Speaker 3: candidate on a ticket since John Kerry. Like imagine in five,
Speaker 3: if Obama was like, well, I'll just leave it up
Speaker 3: to Jump Cary, It's like, what why would you ever
Speaker 3: do that? They rightfully were discarded. Same in John McCain.
Speaker 3: John McCain had no say over Republican affairs after two
Speaker 3: thousand and eight. Correctly, in twenty and thirteen, you think
Speaker 3: the Tea Party was calling up Mitt Romney and like, hey, Mitt,
Speaker 3: let me run this one by you. It's crazy. This
Speaker 3: is one where if you lose, like I like the
Speaker 3: British model, then you're done.
Speaker 1: You're gone. You should not run for anything, Kamala. I
Speaker 1: mean she could try.
Speaker 3: In the Nixon famously ran for governor of California and
Speaker 3: lost after he lost the presidency. But it was like
Speaker 3: a road of redemption. Maybe that's how she views her future.
Speaker 3: But I just have no idea where this Katie Porter
Speaker 3: type energy comes from, specifically the way that she positioned
Speaker 3: herself when she was here in Washington. The other sense,
Speaker 3: and maybe you know more about this in me, is
Speaker 3: that because the California Democratic Party is so archaic and
Speaker 3: is so like literally locked down and run from the top,
Speaker 3: that you have no real choice but to try and
Speaker 3: preserve your way within the system. And maybe the California
Speaker 3: Democrats there want her to run. I don't know why
Speaker 3: they would want. That be a disaster, but I have
Speaker 3: no clue.
Speaker 4: I don't know either.
Speaker 2: I can't say with regard to the California political like landscape,
Speaker 2: it is a bit of a like machine and state
Speaker 2: and whatever. But it's just it's just pathetic to see
Speaker 2: it's just pathetic to see like this lady has not earned.
Speaker 4: This level of deference whatsoever.
Speaker 2: Porterlake genuinely does have something different to offer. So that's
Speaker 2: what makes it an extra disappointing to see this response
Speaker 2: from her last piece we have here, which is just
Speaker 2: really interesting and again kind of goes back to what
Speaker 2: we were saying about some of these shifts with the
Speaker 2: Democratic base and who they're seeing as leaders, the direction
Speaker 2: they want the party to go in, etc. Can put
Speaker 2: this up on the screen. So CNN asked this question.
Speaker 2: It says, here, who do you think the leader the
Speaker 2: Democratic Party is? That isn't exactly the question that they asked.
Speaker 2: They actually asked who best represents the values the core
Speaker 2: values of the Democratic Party, And coming in first place
Speaker 2: is AOC which again and then number two is Kamala
Speaker 2: Harris makes sense given you know she's still just like
Speaker 2: top of mind whatever. Then Bernie, then Kim Jeffrey. I
Speaker 2: don't know who those people are. Then number at four percent,
Speaker 2: Barack Obama tied with Jasmine Crockett four percent. Gavin is
Speaker 2: it to Pelosi's it to alyssa Slutkin, to Schumert, to
Speaker 2: Tim Walls one So you know, I'm curious what you
Speaker 2: may made of this, soger, But I mean, you can
Speaker 2: see there's like ideology all over the place. But what
Speaker 2: you see at the top of that list with AOC
Speaker 2: is she has been out front and very vocal and
Speaker 2: very aggressive in challenging Trump and the Trump administration.
Speaker 4: And that's what people want to see.
Speaker 2: It's also funny because it comes something as an earlier
Speaker 2: poll where you had, you know, some plurality of Democratic
Speaker 2: voters who were like, we want the party to be
Speaker 2: more moderate. But then it's like, this is who we
Speaker 2: think is moderate, you know, this is who we think
Speaker 2: she is just.
Speaker 3: A Democrat now, I mean, she's didn't want a primary people.
Speaker 1: She she was. This is the part I don't really understand.
Speaker 3: I really believed Democratic voters would reward people who only
Speaker 3: called out Biden for his age, like Dean Phillips.
Speaker 1: I don't know why they're not doing so.
Speaker 3: Like AOC and Bernie were two of the people who
Speaker 3: actually stuck with Biden longer than many moderate Democrats who
Speaker 3: called him out in the future.
Speaker 1: So I guess Trump is the only thing that matters
Speaker 1: to them.
Speaker 3: I don't really understand why I think voter should reward
Speaker 3: good political judgment in the moment. You should look to
Speaker 3: people like Nancy Pelosi and others who look, this is
Speaker 3: ideology aside, it was good political judgment at that time
Speaker 3: to be like, this is not happening period for some
Speaker 3: of the first people to actually call Biden out for
Speaker 3: his age.
Speaker 1: I thought that that would matter more. Doesn't appear to be.
Speaker 3: Maybe just because of the way the news in all
Speaker 3: that is working, it could matter more in a primary.
Speaker 1: But looking at this, yeah, I mean, the.
Speaker 3: Political theory of resistance, or at least the appearance of resistance,
Speaker 3: is one that's quite popular right now. I actually think
Speaker 3: outside of all of it, the number one story to
Speaker 3: me is Barack Obama at four percent. That's where I
Speaker 3: was like, wow, because that's how you know that the
Speaker 3: Obama psyop, which has basically lasted since two thousand and
Speaker 3: four when he went.
Speaker 1: On the DNZ stage, is officially over. You know. I
Speaker 1: was telling you this about.
Speaker 3: The Michelle Obama podcast, and look, I mean, it's just
Speaker 3: shocking to me that this person, who is an internationally
Speaker 3: famous woman who at one point had one of the
Speaker 3: best selling books in history, has got thirty six thousands
Speaker 3: subscribers on YouTube and is getting like one hundred thousand
Speaker 3: views on.
Speaker 1: Her podcast episode with her brother.
Speaker 3: One of the clips she has Crystal is thirteen thousand views,
Speaker 3: and it's called, in my opinion, plane etiquette, where Michelle
Speaker 3: is telling us to keep your toes to yourself. Lady,
Speaker 3: when's the last time you even flew on a commercial
Speaker 3: airliner twenty years ago? It's not to dunk on a
Speaker 3: Michelle Well, I guess part of it is, but it's
Speaker 3: just a show like that is just not where the
Speaker 3: energy is well right now, whereas these Midas guys are
Speaker 3: racking up two point five million views on a clip. So, yeah,
Speaker 3: the Obama era is over. I mean, if anything, that
Speaker 3: might be Trump's greatest gift to us ault.
Speaker 2: Because if you think about it, so right now you've
Speaker 2: got Elon slashing and burning through government handing in self contract,
Speaker 2: the richest man on the planet. You have we're about
Speaker 2: to talk about like hundreds of people just disappeared into
Speaker 2: a foreign prison and court orders openly defied here in
Speaker 2: in other instances as well, you have them going in
Speaker 2: now there.
Speaker 4: We've already got to.
Speaker 2: Documented instances of social security benefits being taken unjustly from people,
Speaker 2: including one instance where it was literally taken out of
Speaker 2: someone's bank account because they thought that she was dead
Speaker 2: and she was not dead.
Speaker 4: You've got them planning a.
Speaker 2: Massive tax cut for the rich, massive cuts to medicaid.
Speaker 2: You have an all out assault on the government and
Speaker 2: the liberal order, and you know, an anti semitism I'm
Speaker 2: going to talk about today being weaponized in order to
Speaker 2: crush dissent, crush free speech, crush academic freedom.
Speaker 4: And where are the Obamas?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: They have nothing to say about that, nothing to say
Speaker 2: about it. So, yeah, how could that reflect the core
Speaker 2: of what the Democratic Party base sees as happening in
Speaker 2: this moment. On the other hand, you have AOC who's
Speaker 2: out there every day. You know, she's on Twitter, she's
Speaker 2: doing Instagram live, she's getting in people's faces, she's doing
Speaker 2: cable news hits. She is out there, and while she
Speaker 2: doesn't have any more power than anyone else than the
Speaker 2: Democratic Party in this moment, she has made herself visible
Speaker 2: and made it clear that she's as upset at what
Speaker 2: is going on as they are, and that's really what
Speaker 2: people are looking for. I mean, you know, Bernie really
Speaker 2: set the standerd with going out starting these town halls
Speaker 2: now you see other Democrats like starting to follow that
Speaker 2: model as well. That's why he ends up sort of
Speaker 2: at the top of this list too. Jasmin Crockett kind
Speaker 2: of comes out of nowhere to be now tied with
Speaker 2: Barack Obama in terms of.
Speaker 4: Who reflects the core values of the party.
Speaker 2: Because, yeah, while there is a sense of, you know,
Speaker 2: down the road in a Democratic primary, there's going to
Speaker 2: be ideological debates of whatever, right now, there's almost no
Speaker 2: luxury for that. It's just like, this is happening, This
Speaker 2: salt is happening at a faster pace than anyone could
Speaker 2: have possibly expected. And the people who are at least
Speaker 2: showing some courage and putting up a fight, those are
Speaker 2: the people who, to us need to lead us going forward.
Speaker 2: So it's not a surprise to me that AOC ends
Speaker 2: up at the top of that list. But I do think,
Speaker 2: you know, it's very different from how things would have
Speaker 2: been in the like resistance err or even in the Biden.
Speaker 4: Error or whatever.
Speaker 2: She always was sort of, you know, when they did
Speaker 2: questions about who's the leader, who's the who represents the
Speaker 2: core values, et cetera. She was always seen as more
Speaker 2: of like a fringe sort of character within the Democratic Party,
Speaker 2: and now because of the way she's asserted herself, because
Speaker 2: of the way Bernie has asserted himself, they have really
Speaker 2: sort of claimed the moment and filled the vacuum for
Speaker 2: what people are looking for.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yes, caveats still apply, is she doesn't have good political
Speaker 3: judgment if you still look in the past, it's this
Speaker 3: whole like getting in the face of things. I mean,
Speaker 3: there's a big reason why liberals, you know, or leftists
Speaker 3: have not been very politically successful a lot of the
Speaker 3: times that they've tried to do this in the past,
Speaker 3: and there is like a huffing your own glue attitude
Speaker 3: I think in a lot of liberal circles where they're
Speaker 3: genuinely convinced that this is going to work.
Speaker 10: Yeah,