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Speaker 1: Route from us.

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Speaker 2: listening to Software Radio, Special Operations, Military Nails and straight

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Speaker 2: talk with the guys in the community.

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Speaker 1: Hey, what's going on? This is rad with another awesome

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Speaker 1: episode of soft Rep Radio. Now today is a return guest,

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Speaker 1: and you already know who it is because you've already

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Speaker 1: clicked on the title. I've learned that I'm like trying

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Speaker 1: to hide who the guest is. I can't tell you.

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Speaker 1: I tell you about the merch store, right, I always

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Speaker 1: merch and pick up some branded items from our merch store. Right,

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Speaker 1: the Softwap lighters, the torchlights that we have super cool,

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Speaker 1: lots of lumens, very bright in a dark, dark place.

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Speaker 1: I also have my fireplace going, so thank you for

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Speaker 1: buying the merch. Second, we have the book Club. You

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Speaker 1: hear me say it all the time. That's soft rep

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Speaker 1: dot com Forward slash book Hyphened Club. Now, that's book

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Speaker 1: hyphen Club. Go go read a book, even if it's

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Speaker 1: not from the book club. Go read a book. Find

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Speaker 1: a book. Now. Today is the author of a book,

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Speaker 1: and let me read the title. Let's just get this

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Speaker 1: out of the way and then I'll introduce the author

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Speaker 1: in this whole let's see here, Okay, So Curtis Fox

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Speaker 1: joins US today and he has written Hybrid Warfare, The

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Speaker 1: Russian Approach to Strategic Competition and Conventional Military Conflict, The

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Speaker 1: Russian Way. Now, Curtis, this book came out beginning of

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four into twenty twenty three, and it's out

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Speaker 1: right now where everyone can go find Hybrid Warfare under

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Speaker 1: Curtis Fox, who comes from the tenth Special Forces Group.

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Speaker 1: All right, Green Beret Special Forces, and we're going to

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Speaker 1: get into it about what's happening kind of what's going

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Speaker 1: on right now in Ukraine. Welcome, Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 3: Curtis, Hey, thank you very much for having me read.

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Speaker 4: It's it's good to see you again.

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Speaker 1: It's great to have you back. You know, I just

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Speaker 1: last time we talked, we were getting into you know

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Speaker 1: how you're such a subject matter expert, a SMI, someone

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Speaker 1: who has an understanding what's going on over in Eastern

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Speaker 1: Europe and like not just like in Russia, but like Warsaw,

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Speaker 1: like the whole entire shebang.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I try, but yeah, it's it's been a fun project,

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Speaker 3: and you know, it's been a lot of fun doing

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Speaker 3: the research on it. You know, it's been you know,

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Speaker 3: the subject a couple of my recently, you know, posted papers,

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Speaker 3: you know, like who in NATO is actually ready for war?

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Speaker 3: This was actually posted in Military Review recently, and you know,

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Speaker 3: I'd love to get into it. Why aren't sanctions working

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Speaker 3: on Russia?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, why aren't they? Why aren't they Why aren't

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Speaker 1: sanctions are well, they probably are somewhat, but why aren't

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Speaker 1: they what we think should be working, right? Who's helping them?

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Speaker 1: Who are the actors?

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Speaker 3: Well, it's a fascinating case study because sanctions regime that's

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Speaker 3: been erected against Russia has kind of horrified the Chinese

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Speaker 3: and the Iranians. But Russia is unique. They are one

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Speaker 3: of the world's largest energy producers. They are on par

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Speaker 3: with Saudi Arabia, and they most of that oil and

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Speaker 3: gas is going to Western Europe. And then on top

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Speaker 3: of that, they're the world's largest grains producer. So to

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Speaker 3: the quality of Russian farmland is actually relatively poor, but

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Speaker 3: they have an enormous amount of it, and it's you know,

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Speaker 3: it's kind of one of these funny things. The Volga

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Speaker 3: River is a relatively small river compared to other major

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Speaker 3: bodies of water, like you know, the Mississippi, the Rhine,

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Speaker 3: But for the Russians it's a super highway and it

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Speaker 3: brings all that grain to market.

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Speaker 4: To cut Russia totally.

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Speaker 3: Out of the world economy, you know, immediately would have

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Speaker 3: produced mass famine, especially in the Middle East and Africa,

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Speaker 3: where a lot of the Russian grains are exported. But

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Speaker 3: it would also produce an energy crisis almost immediately. The

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Speaker 3: Germans in particular, have very much integrated economically with Russia.

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Speaker 3: Russia produces a lot of the raw materials that this,

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Speaker 3: you know, the high powered German industrial machine needs. It's

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Speaker 3: not just a recent innovation. I mean this is that

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Speaker 3: was the case, you know, dating back to World War Two.

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Speaker 3: That was the backbone of the molotav Ribbon drop pact

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Speaker 3: between Germany and the Soviet Union. Is it was not

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Speaker 3: merely a non aggression pact. The Germans rebuilt the Wehrmacht

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Speaker 3: and then the Luftwaffa with raw materials out of the

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Speaker 3: Soviet Union. That economic relationship, you know, has has created

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Speaker 3: I don't want to say an alliance of convenience, but

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Speaker 3: they have aligned interests and it took Russia invading Ukraine

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Speaker 3: to really disturb Berlin to such a point that they

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Speaker 3: were willing to break that economic relationship with Russia. And

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Speaker 3: now the Europeans are learning exactly how difficult it is

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Speaker 3: to kind of unenthrall themselves from Russian energy exports. They've

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Speaker 3: been more accessful with natural gas, which relies on pipelines,

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Speaker 3: but crude is a little bit easier to ship to

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Speaker 3: alternative third party destinations, and so it's very easy for

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Speaker 3: third party countries to basically, you know, just take a

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Speaker 3: middleman handler's fee and then ship.

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Speaker 4: It to Europe.

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Speaker 3: And so Europe is getting Russian oil, but it looks

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Speaker 3: like it passed through India, or it passed through Turkey

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Speaker 3: or you know, another middleman partner.

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Speaker 4: So it's it's the straw mans, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: They cannot turn off those those oil wells either, especially

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Speaker 3: not in the urals, because they're in the permafrost, and

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Speaker 3: they don't have the technology to turn them back on.

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Speaker 1: Because it's always cold. That has to stay warm, like

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Speaker 1: your pipes have to keep dripping in the winter or

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Speaker 1: else they'll freeze up. And so they have to always

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Speaker 1: just keep it, keep it going. So like that's what

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Speaker 1: the whole thing about trying to annex Crimea, rush, trying

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Speaker 1: to take over Crimea is about the pipeline and the

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Speaker 1: port and the whole outlet to the ocean right there

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Speaker 1: for what we call the bread basket of the world.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yes, that's definitely a part of it. The Sevastopol

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Speaker 3: Naval Base is also in Crimea, and it's Crimea is

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Speaker 3: not just a strategic location for oil and gas, it's

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Speaker 3: also it's the means through which Russia projects their naval

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Speaker 3: power into the Black Sea and the Mediterranean Sea in

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Speaker 3: the Indian Ocean. And for Russia to lose the Sevastipul

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Speaker 3: naval base and dominance in the Black Sea is to

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Speaker 3: basically sever their their capacity to project power in a

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Speaker 3: large portion of the world.

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Speaker 1: They should probably just look at America's fleet and how

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Speaker 1: much we love our boats and just say that's the

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Speaker 1: same thing right now, we love our boats. Don't touch

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Speaker 1: our boats. Don't touch our boats. Don't touch our boats.

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Speaker 1: Don't do it. Don't you do it, don't you do it,

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Speaker 1: don't you do it? So, I mean, you know, you

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Speaker 1: can either battle us about our boats, or you can

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Speaker 1: just think they're really serious about their boats. And that's

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Speaker 1: all of you out there on your boats. Okay, kick

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Speaker 1: that kick some button now right now on the boats.

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Speaker 1: Kind of talking curve all right here. You know, you

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Speaker 1: have a strike group going over to the sea in

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Speaker 1: between Iran and trying to flex right now, a whole

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Speaker 1: carrier group's going over there. You've got another front in

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Speaker 1: Ukraine going on that's being escalated into Russia held occupational

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Speaker 1: territory You've got, and Russia is now starting to have

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Speaker 1: to you know, like do we have to go underground?

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Speaker 1: Do we hide our people or walk around freely in

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Speaker 1: a city where they're blowing up freely walking around people

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Speaker 1: in a city. So it's kind of coming back at Russia.

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Speaker 1: So you have US is definitely out there. I think

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Speaker 1: we're trying to like stay off the Iranian situation. Okay, like,

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Speaker 1: hey we're here. F eighteen's inland, lots of things that

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Speaker 1: can fly, lots of really powerful equipment that we have

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Speaker 1: on our boats. Russia, chill out, back off. Let Ukrainian

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Speaker 1: people just have a regular place. What do you think?

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Speaker 1: What do you think should they just back off? Should

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Speaker 1: they just stop? Yeah? Give Ukraine up, just stop pushing

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Speaker 1: in on it, because do you think anybody's gonna let

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Speaker 1: it ever go to them?

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Speaker 3: Well, I don't think that there's a lot of middle

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Speaker 3: ground in the case with Russia. Russia exists on the

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Speaker 3: vast northern Eurasian step. They don't really have any geographic barriers,

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Speaker 3: and so for most of Russia's history, their only way

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Speaker 3: to achieve a degree of security was simply to grow

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Speaker 3: and expand and absorb those new tribes and ethnicities that

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Speaker 3: they encountered into the Russian collective. And so they you know,

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Speaker 3: by the time of you know, the Csars, you know,

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Speaker 3: that Russia had evolved already into a multi ethnic empire,

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Speaker 3: and that was really the only form of government that

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Speaker 3: they could have mastered. Since the time of Peter the Great,

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Speaker 3: you know, and Catherine the Great, Lenin Stalin and Novladim Reputin,

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Speaker 3: the goal has always been to grow Russia so that

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Speaker 3: they can anchor their political boundaries on hard geographic barriers.

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Speaker 3: So that'd be you know, the Gobi Desert, that would

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Speaker 3: be the Carpathian Mountains in the west, that would be

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Speaker 3: the Baltic Sea, the Black Sea, that would be the

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Speaker 3: Caucasus mountains to the southwest, and that's what that's the

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Speaker 3: strategy that Vladimir Putin is pursuing. Stalin actually reached the

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Speaker 3: epigy of that strategy at the end of World War

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Speaker 3: Two and he conquered all the countries of Eastern Europe

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Speaker 3: and he wrestled them, you know, under the you know,

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Speaker 3: end of Moscow's orbit, and then he had heavy ground

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Speaker 3: forces and tactical nuclear ordinance forward stationed in East Germany

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Speaker 3: on the western side of the fold of Gap. That

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Speaker 3: is the Russian definition of security. That strategic paradigm collapsed

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Speaker 3: with the collapse of the Soviet Union, and Russia is

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Speaker 3: now now that they've regained a degree of stability under

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Speaker 3: Vladimir Putin, they're pursuing the same strategy, and you know,

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Speaker 3: it's going to take them a long time to ever,

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Speaker 3: you know, potentially regain.

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Speaker 4: That defense and depth.

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Speaker 3: But when we see all of these little, you know,

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Speaker 3: military interventions, you know, the Crimean annexation, or maybe the

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Speaker 3: Russo Georgian War in two thousand and eight, the war

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Speaker 3: in Syria, all of these little interventions and skirmishes are

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Speaker 3: in service of those larger strategic goals. And what we

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Speaker 3: absolutely cannot allow to happen. Is for the Russians to

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Speaker 3: think that they can sneak, you know, as vlat Reputant

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Speaker 3: turned them, you know, little green men, you know, spetsnash troops,

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Speaker 3: you know, conducting some sort of a soft coup in Warsaw.

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Speaker 3: Let's say, you know, let's just say they start doing

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Speaker 3: cross border bombardments into Poland or something like that, like

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Speaker 3: they did with you know, the you know, in the

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Speaker 3: pre hour engagements before the Russo Georgian War actually became hot,

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Speaker 3: or you know, they you know, the little green men

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Speaker 3: that basically seized control of the Crimean parliamentary building in

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Speaker 3: twenty and twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 4: The Poles have been well.

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Speaker 3: First they endured systematic extermination under the Germans, and then

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Speaker 3: after that they endured another forty years of slavery under

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Speaker 3: communism at the direction of Moscow. And they are not

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Speaker 3: going to allow themselves to ever be dominated by an

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Speaker 3: outside power again. And you know, when the Russians do

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Speaker 3: these little passive aggressive things to try to move the

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Speaker 3: ball forward in pursuit of these larger strategic goals, I

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Speaker 3: guarantee you the polls will have none of it. And

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Speaker 3: so this strategic calculus in US supporting Ukraine is to

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Speaker 3: make sure that the Russians can never border you know,

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Speaker 3: some of our major NATO partners that might invoke Article

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Speaker 3: five and drag US into a grand war against the

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Speaker 3: regime in Moscow. And that's that's really the reason that

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Speaker 3: we have a strategic interest in ensuring that the government

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Speaker 3: in Kiev survives.

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Speaker 1: Dang. Yeah, right, And also not to think that that's

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Speaker 1: not beneath the Russian Empire of today if you want to,

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Speaker 1: if he wants to go back to being called that,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're sending missiles through the airspace of neighboring

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Speaker 1: country is right now, you know, they're like also hitting

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Speaker 1: facilities within those Like didn't it hit Poland in this

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Speaker 1: last this current conflict that they're in right now in Ukraine,

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Speaker 1: wasn't there like something about a missile that had hit

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Speaker 1: inside of the country, And they're like, hey, you know

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Speaker 1: it was a Russian missile. It cut through the airspace

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Speaker 1: to get into Ukraine, right, they don't care.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a nasty black eye. And everybody in

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Speaker 3: that particular engagement immediately rushed to say that, hey, look,

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Speaker 3: this might not have been a Russian missile. Number One

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Speaker 3: but number two, if it was a Russian missile, it

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Speaker 3: was an accident. None of this was on purpose, and

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Speaker 3: this is all something that we should just forget about.

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Speaker 3: And they all, you know, the State Department and you

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Speaker 3: know a number of NATO allies.

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Speaker 4: Immediately were on top of that.

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Speaker 3: And the reason for that is because that that Jacob's

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Speaker 3: ladder can can escalate very quickly and very dangerously. So

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Speaker 3: it's it's important to make sure that it's a tense situation,

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Speaker 3: let's just say, and it's important to make sure that

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Speaker 3: you have a fire ech thing, wish your handy.

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Speaker 1: I mean, really, they don't want you to remember, but

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Speaker 1: Pepperidge Farms remembers. Okay, okay, can't pull one over. I mean,

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Speaker 1: especially if you live through the situation and kind of

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Speaker 1: saw things or heard things or you know, news flash,

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Speaker 1: that's just in. You know, everybody's on the ground immediately,

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Speaker 1: TikTok's going off, someone some kids filming the burning building.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's like you can't get away from really

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Speaker 1: what's going down these days, which also uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: inflace the situation heavily, you know, because it just takes

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Speaker 1: one crazy social media post to like send the algorithm

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Speaker 1: into a flurry sending it to people who believe propaganda.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, it's a big problem.

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Speaker 3: Unfortunately too, we're starting to there's a problem first where

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Speaker 3: you know, people are proving to be quite susceptible to propaganda.

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Speaker 1: One.

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Speaker 4: Two.

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Speaker 3: There there's also emerging somewhat of a consensus amongst governments

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Speaker 3: that they have the right to control information flows over

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Speaker 3: their respective populations. And it's very very difficult. Two, it's

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Speaker 3: very difficult to manage these things. I would consider it

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Speaker 3: analogous to the emergence of the printing press in a

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Speaker 3: lot of ways, we're dabbling in new technologies in the

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Speaker 3: age of the Internet and the age of social media

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Speaker 3: that had never been tried before. And in many ways

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Speaker 3: social media is playing a role right now in global

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Speaker 3: politics that the emergence of the printing press and the

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Speaker 3: targeted political pamphlet and pamphleteering campaigns played in the French Revolution.

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Speaker 3: And that's kind of a terrifying prospect as to where

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Speaker 3: this can go and how this can end up if

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Speaker 3: we are if we are not level headed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah really, Because I mean when I was working for

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Speaker 1: this internet company back in early two thousands, we were the

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Speaker 1: internet was only like fifteen years old, okay, And we

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Speaker 1: would always talk about it as she's only fifteen years old.

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Speaker 1: What happens to a fifteen year old? What's going through?

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Speaker 1: You know, what's a fifteen year old going through in

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Speaker 1: their life? And now all of a sudden you flash forward,

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Speaker 1: it's another fifteen years from that time when I was

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Speaker 1: doing that, and now she's thirty years old. So what

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Speaker 1: is a thirty year old just going to be doing?

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Speaker 1: You know, the internet is just becoming We don't even

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Speaker 1: know the power of what TikTok can do, Like you know,

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Speaker 1: you think it's just going to show you selling your

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Speaker 1: shoes online, you know, or you know, but it can

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Speaker 1: be the power of it can either like say hey

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Speaker 1: look at this person, did this? Or start a war.

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Speaker 1: Maybe a keystroke, not a gunshot, is what creates this

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Speaker 1: situation to be nasty. You know, it's more of a

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Speaker 1: keystroke type situation. It's happening also within our own country,

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Speaker 1: right we have our own blood on blood Americans, if

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Speaker 1: you will just kind of like looking at each other

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Speaker 1: like are we all Americans or what? You know, like

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Speaker 1: we should all just be under the flag. But it's

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Speaker 1: just kind of a divisive situation out there with social media,

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Speaker 1: and I just want to kind of call it out.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying anything specific, because you know, you've got

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Speaker 1: to just know what you're looking at. He's got to realize, say, like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, how do you fact check what something

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Speaker 1: seems to be fact checked? You know? How do you

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Speaker 1: just do use go with your gut?

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Speaker 4: Well, I can.

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Speaker 3: I can tell you one positive thing that has emerged

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Speaker 3: at the diplomatic level that you know, has gotten some

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Speaker 3: press attention recently in our relationship with Russia's We've had

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Speaker 3: that recent prisoner exchange, right, that's a reoccurring indicator that

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Speaker 3: we have some backchannels that are open with the Russians.

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Speaker 3: We are not entirely at the whims of the you know,

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Speaker 3: the whiplash effect of let's say, social media, you know,

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Speaker 3: stigmatizing a particular issue that then has to drive government

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Speaker 3: policy on that particular issue.

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Speaker 4: We are at least.

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Speaker 3: Able to exchange information with them in a substantive way.

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Speaker 3: And that's a I think that's a very very positive sign.

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Speaker 3: And it wasn't a particularly good deal, and that's we

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Speaker 3: can kind of get into the mechanics of the deal

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Speaker 3: a little bit. But the fact that we're talking to

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Speaker 3: them in a substantive way is very encouraging.

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Speaker 1: Right, because they didn't have to do anything. They could

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Speaker 1: have left their guy alone and just left. You know.

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Speaker 1: It was Paul, right, Paul Whalan, who was serving a

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Speaker 1: sixteen year prison sentence, and he had been excluded from

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Speaker 1: prior high profile dealings involving Russia, including in the twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty two swap of the marine veteran Tredvor Reed. But

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Speaker 1: they finally got him back August second, twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: And I think we all saw President Biden meet him

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Speaker 1: and like tell him welcome home and take his American

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Speaker 1: flag off, just like like kind of like a dad.

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Speaker 1: I just have to say I watched that situation and

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Speaker 1: he was just like, what do I have on me

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Speaker 1: right now that I can just give you to let

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Speaker 1: you know, here you go, here's your flag, you know,

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Speaker 1: welcome home. And I don't know, I don't think you can.

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Speaker 1: It just got done, right, he came home. He's home.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, do we have others still over there that

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Speaker 1: are waiting to come home or did we get the

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Speaker 1: last of those guys.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure we still have more political prisoners in Russia

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Speaker 3: and Whalen wasn't He was one of sixteen.

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Speaker 4: I think another one was a Wall Street journal journalist.

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Speaker 3: A lot of the people that we traded for a

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Speaker 3: few of them weren't even Westerners. They were members of

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Speaker 3: Alexiavolney's campaign staff, right, And so you know, we glorified

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Speaker 3: Navalney maybe a little too much in the West. I

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Speaker 3: think we kind of misunderstand him a little bit. That's

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Speaker 3: a separate conversation. But you know, as a as a

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Speaker 3: potential liberal reformer in Russia, he was a sharp critic

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Speaker 3: of the Kremlin and he insisted on, you know, seeing

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Speaker 3: changes made in Russia and Russian policy, we need to

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Speaker 3: applaud him for that. And the Kremlin basically they had

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Speaker 3: him killed. Let's they harassed him politically for years and

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Speaker 3: finally they finally he was eliminated as a threat.

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Speaker 1: You know, they're trying to get him and his kid

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Speaker 1: and his family and anybody around him and anybody who

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Speaker 1: was for him. They kept changing the rules if you

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Speaker 1: like Navalny in Russia. So from he's again he's not

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Speaker 1: a political prisoner. Okay, maybe he's a political prisoner. If

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Speaker 1: you like him, now you're going to be looked at

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Speaker 1: that way, and now now he's a terrorist. Now you're

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Speaker 1: part of a terrorist organization. Oh, now it's a banned organization.

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Speaker 1: It's not even allowed anymore. And if you even say

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Speaker 1: his name, you're going to be shot. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: gotten to that point.

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Speaker 3: And it's unfortunate that we had to trade. You know,

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Speaker 3: the people that we traded to the Russians that they

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Speaker 3: were almost all of them deep cover Russian spies, whether

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Speaker 3: they were working for the GRU or the FSB, or

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Speaker 3: maybe one or two of them for the SVR. I

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Speaker 3: don't think the administration has relied. They've told us who

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Speaker 3: I don't think they've announced officially what agencies these individuals

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Speaker 3: worked for. I've seen it on open source media, but

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Speaker 3: that doesn't necessarily mean it's true. But all of these

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Speaker 3: guys were allegedly deep cover Russian operatives. So the old

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Speaker 3: you know, the Soviet Union had the old common Turn program.

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Speaker 3: There's a little fascinating history behind Russian deep cover spies

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Speaker 3: if you want to go into it. So you know,

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Speaker 3: during this the Soviet experiment with communism during the twenties

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Speaker 3: and thirties, there were still many in the West that

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Speaker 3: were very enamored with the idea of communism, and so

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Speaker 3: they went to Russia to watch the experiment, and a

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Speaker 3: lot of them came from the Western universities Russia.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 3: Stalin in particular treated them with a great deal of suspicion.

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Speaker 3: Some of them were true believers, and he had them

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Speaker 3: come back to the West to basically work as spies

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Speaker 3: in the institutions of the West, but a lot of

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Speaker 3: them were killed. They were simply purged in the late thirties,

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Speaker 3: along with a large portion of the officer corps of

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Speaker 3: the Red Army, which is why Russia performed so poorly

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Speaker 3: in the Winter War when they invaded Finland. To replace

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Speaker 3: all of these intellectuals who had been working as spies,

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Speaker 3: they started the common Tern Program, which was meant to

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Speaker 3: take Russian peasants and train them in language and basic

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Speaker 3: trade crafts so that they could be spies. And out

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Speaker 3: of that common Tern Program eventually evolved this thing called

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Speaker 3: the Illegals program, which was a top top secret program

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Speaker 3: within the KGB where they would basically, you know, go

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Speaker 3: into a foreign country and they would pretend as though

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Speaker 3: they had been citizens in that country their entire lives,

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Speaker 3: and they were board and raised there and then they

398
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Speaker 3: would try to you know, navigate their careers into the institutions.

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Speaker 3: And there's a legacy that still you know, functions from that.

400
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Speaker 3: It's run by the SVR, the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service,

401
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,320
Speaker 3: and they still train you know, deep cover operatives and

402
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Speaker 3: they will take you know, like a birth certificate, you know,

403
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Speaker 3: from a child in let's say Canada or the United

404
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Speaker 3: States or the United Kingdom or you know, pick the

405
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Speaker 3: west in country, right, and they will take you know,

406
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Speaker 3: that birth certificate from that child that probably died in

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Speaker 3: childbirth or maybe they died early in life for whatever reason,

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Speaker 3: and they'll construct a paper trail as though that child

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Speaker 3: had grown up to adulthood. And when that, you know,

410
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Speaker 3: then they'll have they'll have their person go to that

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Speaker 3: country and assume that identity that they've created the paper

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Speaker 3: trail for. And it gets more fascinating because you know,

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Speaker 3: now we're in the digital age and so they're creating.

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Speaker 4: The old digital paper trail for it.

415
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Speaker 3: But it gets even more fascinating because very often what

416
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Speaker 3: they'll do is they will take you know, a man

417
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Speaker 3: and a woman who have let's say compatible personalities and

418
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Speaker 3: seem to get along fairly well in training and then

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Speaker 3: they'll just say, well, hey, look, why don't you guys

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Speaker 3: get married here in Russia, And so you can be

421
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Speaker 3: married officially, and then you're going to go to the West,

422
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Speaker 3: and you're going to assume these two separate identities, and

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Speaker 3: you're going to magically meet at a university and you're

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Speaker 3: going to get married in date, and you're going to

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Speaker 3: get married in the presence of Western friends. You're going

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Speaker 3: to grow up and raise a family in the West,

427
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Speaker 3: and you're going to have children in the West, and

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Speaker 3: everyone's just going to think that you're a normal Canadian

429
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Speaker 3: family or an American family or whatever. And and so

430
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Speaker 3: in this particular prisoner exchange, the people that we gave

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Speaker 3: to Russia were all these these very very expensive, you know,

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Speaker 3: highly trained career deep cover operatives and in one of

433
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 3: and two miners went with them. So we gave the

434
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 3: Russians eight individuals plus two miners, and those miners were

435
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 3: most likely, you know, kids, Western kids of that relationship

436
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 3: that had only been waste in the West. The last

437
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 3: big prisoner exchange we did was in twenty ten, and

438
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 3: that was this big illegals ring that the FBI uncovered

439
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 3: in the United States, and there was two of these kids,

440
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 3: you know were they were. They were the children of

441
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 3: these Russian spies and they had believed they were Canadian

442
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 3: their whole lives, and they were deported to Russia and

443
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,120
Speaker 3: they're like, we don't even speak Russian, and so they're

444
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 3: suing to try to get their Canadian citizenship back, which

445
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 3: is very funny.

446
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 1: Because they were born there and the parents were living

447
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 1: the the lie and that the kids were just part

448
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 1: of the plot. They were just they were a prop.

449
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 3: You have to feel bad for them because I mean,

450
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 3: their you know, their lives were led upside down. But

451
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 3: you know, if I were the Canadian government, I would

452
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 3: do the same thing.

453
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 1: It was all just farce. Think about the miners, you know,

454
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 1: like being possibly the children of the embedded spies. I've

455
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 1: been over here and you know, Red Dawn, it's among us. Huh,

456
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 1: holy jow.

457
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:47,479
Speaker 3: It really is. Bro And I tell you where this

458
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 3: gets really interesting. So the Europeans, We've been pestering the

459
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 3: Europeans for years to take Russian intelligence seriously. The Russians,

460
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 3: they have a couple of cardinal characteristics about collection. Part

461
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 3: of it is it depends on who in Russia is

462
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 3: collecting on you right. So the SVR is known for

463
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 3: being very chic and sophisticated, and you know they will

464
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 3: they will assess a target for a decade, waiting for

465
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 3: the right opportunity to bump this person and approach them

466
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 3: with a proposition. You know, probably when they're low in

467
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 3: their career or something or something bad just happened to

468
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 3: them and they need support, or maybe they're in debt.

469
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 3: The GRU almost all the GRU spies, and the GREU

470
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 3: runs about six times more operatives abroad than the SVR does,

471
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,959
Speaker 3: but almost all of them are former spets nesmen, and

472
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 3: so they approach it with a very you know, military demeanor.

473
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,199
Speaker 3: They look very physically fit. I mean they look like,

474
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,159
Speaker 3: you know, a veteran looks, and they tend to approach

475
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 3: a problem in terms of this is the solution we need,

476
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 3: this is the leverage we have, So this is the

477
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 3: amount of force that we have to apply with this

478
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 3: particular tool. They are not as appreciative of the sensitivities

479
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 3: of international relations, which is why you hear about the

480
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 3: GRU doing hand fisted things like a coup and Montenegro

481
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 3: or you know, the assassination attempt on Sergei Scripio in

482
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 3: the UK. That one hand fisted attempt cost Russia the

483
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 3: using nerve agent you on foreign soil to assassinate this guy.

484
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 3: The Europeans all collaborated together to expel something like one

485
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty career Russian intel officers from Europe, and

486
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 3: then maybe I think another fifty were expelled from the

487
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 3: United States, all persona on GRADA and so the you know,

488
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 3: the the strategic intelligence that Russia lost from that one

489
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 3: hand fisted thing was extraordinary, which is why the head

490
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 3: of the gru was very quietly relieved, and he later

491
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 3: died from stress. We don't know if that was what

492
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,679
Speaker 3: kind of stress that was. Maybe he accidentally fell in

493
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 3: a lake with you know, tied to a chair.

494
00:26:57,960 --> 00:26:58,479
Speaker 4: We don't know.

495
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 1: But right and here here in Utah, we had for

496
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: some time a Russian base in the desert. I know

497
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: where that's at. It's now just you can go there

498
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: and if you go into it, you can still find

499
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: old magazines from like the nineties, maybe early nineties, when

500
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: they had to just leave, like all of a sudden

501
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: something happened and everybody had to just like leave the country,

502
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 1: get out. It was like something about the the you know,

503
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: and this this base still exists out here. I've been

504
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: out there. We filmed the movie at it, you know,

505
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: it's used as a location, and we were kind of

506
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: wandering around this whole old base and everything was all

507
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: in Russian and I was just looking at it. I'm like,

508
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 1: I've been in Utah like pretty much my whole adult life,

509
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: and I don't ever recall, you know, ever hearing about

510
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: this base out here, and there it is, you know,

511
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: and I was like, wow, is is it healthy to

512
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: be here? Like, you know, did the production crew like

513
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 1: get a Geiger counter out here? And it's a whole

514
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 1: bunch of like quantcet huts that go in the base

515
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,120
Speaker 1: in the ground, and there's just it's still set up.

516
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: It's just like they left everything just laid out clipboards,

517
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: you know, magazines, just you know, so there was we

518
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: had we had an alliance with them. At one point

519
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:04,719
Speaker 1: we were talking.

520
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 3: They probably did literally stop and leave. They probably got

521
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 3: a call from Moscow that said, hey, look, you know,

522
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:17,120
Speaker 3: the KGB is collapsing, the Soviet Union is collapsing. Come back,

523
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 3: you know, get out of country while you can. One

524
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 3: of the things that happened in the fall of the

525
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 3: Soviet Union was that the KGB basically lost all of

526
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 3: the funding lines that allowed it to run its front

527
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 3: companies and to pay its agents abroad, and so the

528
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 3: the first chief director of the KGB would eventually evolve

529
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 3: into the SVR, but there were a couple of early

530
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 3: years there where they lost almost all of their foreign

531
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 3: intelligence collection apparatus simply because they didn't have a means

532
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 3: of moving money abroad. That had to all be rebuilt.

533
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 3: And it's when you have a facility like that and

534
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 3: you've got personnel that are running it and using it,

535
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 3: and then suddenly all their resources are cut off and

536
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 3: you have to call them and tell them that, hey,

537
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 3: like we you know, there's political chaos here and there's

538
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 3: every opportunity that somebody's going to flip and it's going

539
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 3: to burn you guys. We highly recommend you get out

540
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 3: of country.

541
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: You know.

542
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 3: I have a feeling almost every one of them, you know,

543
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 3: took them, took that warning.

544
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: Uarly and left. Yeah, because it's just like the place.

545
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: If you knew where this was, you'd be like, yeah, rah,

546
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: this is in the middle of nowhere, and they just left, right.

547
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 4: I mean.

548
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 3: But here's the other thing, too, is the you know,

549
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 3: the the KGB had units like VMPLE, and VIMPLE still exists,

550
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 3: it's it's run by the FSB now. But VMPLE was

551
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 3: literally responsible for decapitating foreign governments in the event of war.

552
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 3: And they were the VMPLE operatives were recruited primarily from

553
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 3: the Illegals program, right, so they were all they all learned,

554
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 3: you know, three foreign languages, and they were they were

555
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 3: trained as spies before they started getting you know, Tier

556
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 3: one Special Missions Unit training, and they were you know,

557
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 3: these were people that were very very well trained and

558
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 3: infiltrating countries and eliminating political and military leadership. And that

559
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 3: unit still exists today. And they had always planned on

560
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 3: using their their operatives abroad to facilitate their you know,

561
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 3: vmple's country access. So it's uh, you know, it's I

562
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 3: would imagine that facility was set up for a reason

563
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 3: and that they had they had a particular purpose in

564
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 3: mind for it.

565
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, something about the nuclear program or something along those lines.

566
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: And they were sharing scientists with the US and that

567
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 1: was their area. And I remember growing up my daddy

568
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: in Green Beret out here in Utah. We would go

569
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: up a down I fifteen and he'd always point as

570
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 1: we were going to like Camp Williams. He'd say, you

571
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: see those lights on the mountains out there. He's like,

572
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: those are Russians. And I was like, oh, and it

573
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 1: was called Hercules back in the day. And uh. I'd

574
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: look over there, and I'd always think to myself, those

575
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: orange lights that went down the mountain with this like

576
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: set in shape configuration. Every day i'd see that when

577
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: we drive by. I'd be like, Oh, that's the Russians.

578
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: He'd always point that out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right there.

579
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: I could like literally look out my window here in Sandy,

580
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: Utah and look to the face of the mountain over

581
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: where Kennicott Copper, the world's largest pit mine, is located

582
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: across my valley. Right here, just to the north of it,

583
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: on the same face was a place called Hercules, And wow,

584
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: that's what I'm just that's that's a place that I

585
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: don't know what's going on there today or what's happened then.

586
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: But the place I was talking about, the desert place,

587
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: it's deserted. That place, it's deserted. This place this is

588
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: right here in the city, in the valley, And so

589
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: he would always just point out, you know, hey, that's

590
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: a Russians are right there. I was like, okay, calledge

591
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: out hercules. Comment down below, go ahead, comment down below.

592
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: And then also I was learning or maybe I was

593
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,959
Speaker 1: just knowledgeable about this, But isn't there like a destabilization

594
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: process to like try to decapitate the countries democracy and

595
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: cause it to go into like a sown disc sort

596
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: of civil war that Putin kind of has a place

597
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: list of where he could like change and try to

598
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: help devalue the currency, you know, so discourse and like

599
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: all these different types of you know, step one, step

600
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: two B. He's going down right now.

601
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 3: So I mean, this is the essence of my book, right,

602
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 3: this is the thesis I haven't under Russian hybrid warfare.

603
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 3: And yes, it's you know, when they need to bring

604
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 3: a neighbor to heal Let's say, you know, a very

605
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 3: good example is Ukraine during the Crimean annexation or maybe Georgia. Yeah,

606
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 3: it starts with sanctions and you know, debt pressure. They'll

607
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 3: use whatever energy leverage they have. So in the case

608
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 3: of Ukraine, you know, in the war in Dnbas and

609
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 3: the Crimean annexation in twenty fourteen, they insisted that they

610
00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 3: could renegotiate all the national gas contracts so that Youians

611
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 3: can get a little more of a dividend. But then

612
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 3: when the Ukrainians didn't take debate, they informed Ukraine that

613
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,959
Speaker 3: all the gas blows were being cut off immediately and

614
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 3: you're going to have to forward pay for everything that

615
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 3: you want and that you know, that causes a panic

616
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 3: attack amongst the industry leaders and they start lobbying Kiev.

617
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 3: Then the next you know, if that doesn't get them

618
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 3: what they want. In twenty fourteen, they were trying to

619
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 3: prevent Ukraine from joining the European Union, then you know,

620
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 3: the next step is to start creating.

621
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 4: Protests and riots.

622
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 3: Maybe you start bribing some public officials to not send

623
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 3: out the police to put down those mass protests. You

624
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 3: might you know, you might bribe certain members of the

625
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 3: military to keep their units bottled up on garrison. And

626
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 3: then the next step is to start, you know, moving

627
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 3: your operatives into country and targeting those protests to seize

628
00:33:54,320 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 3: terrain and erect barricades that frustrate civil services from being

629
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 3: able to respond to problems in country and to maneuver freely.

630
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 3: And then you might actually start bringing in soft elements

631
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 3: that secure key objectives eliminate key critical leadership, and then ultimately,

632
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 3: whatever those gains are that you're trying to make, you're

633
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 3: going to surge in heavy ground forces to relieve the

634
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 3: soft units that do the initial contact so that you

635
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:29,280
Speaker 3: can entrench those gains. And that that's essentially the process

636
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 3: of hybrid warfare. So the three terms that the Russians

637
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 3: used to describe this or maskodovka, which is Russian for camouflage,

638
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 3: but it essentially means that they want to operate through

639
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 3: a hidden hand. Then activenosts, which is activity, and that

640
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 3: simply means all the little things that you're doing to

641
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 3: frustrate the host nation government the target nations government to

642
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 3: respond to the crisis. And then vinyezebnos, which means surprise,

643
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 3: and that's that's the speedy let's see, that's the speedy

644
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 3: seizure of limited objectives to achieve your campaign goals. And

645
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 3: those three things together are I argue that defining characteristics

646
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 3: of a Russian hybrid war.

647
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: Wow. So I'm not trying to, like, you know, causeity

648
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: panic here, but that would have been a good opportunity

649
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 1: during the twenty twenty twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two

650
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: time frame when you know, everybody was up at arms

651
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 1: over you know, civil liberties happening in different cities of

652
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,800
Speaker 1: around America. You know, there was a lot of actors

653
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 1: that were getting involved that all of a sudden, you know,

654
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: it's kind of what you just described a little bit.

655
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 3: I almost well, yeah, you know, the the Greu troll

656
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 3: farms one of the I mean, it's there's degrees of

657
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 3: hybrid warfare, right, so, I mean, you know they're you know,

658
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 3: they're not interested in any sort of a kintetic of

659
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 3: a kinetic engagement with the United States. But you know,

660
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 3: with Western countries, the strategy that's worked so well for

661
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 3: the Kremlin for most of its existence has been to

662
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 3: find creases and cracks in the you know, political fissures

663
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 3: between factions in the West, and then put a pride

664
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 3: bar in between those things. And that's how you make

665
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 3: sure that you can break up coalitions that could ever

666
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 3: have the capacity to unite and march eastward towards Moscow.

667
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 3: You know that they're they're thinking about the Grand Armain

668
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 3: under Napoleon or the Vermacht under under the Nazis, and

669
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 3: that's you know that what they want to do is

670
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 3: make sure, there's never another coalition like that that can

671
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 3: ever entertain going east.

672
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 4: And so you know, when when there is.

673
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 3: A Black Lives Mitter protest, but then there's also you know,

674
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 3: some sort of a maker Make America Great Again rally,

675
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 3: You know that what the trolls will do is, you know,

676
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 3: see if we can get both of those accidentally scheduled

677
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 3: on the same day in the same town center, and

678
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 3: it would be very unfortunate if those two groups of

679
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 3: people came in contact with one another, right and you

680
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 3: know those through the kind of those are the kind

681
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 3: of tactics that they employ.

682
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: Would that be like chasing your political rival town to

683
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: town and setting up your political campaigns on their political

684
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: campaigns to try to bring your crew to their crew.

685
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 1: Is that same type of where they might just cross

686
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 1: paths like that, you know, whether it's in the grocery

687
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,720
Speaker 1: stores and you have, you know, say like I'm holding

688
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: a rally over here for Side A, and all of

689
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: my friends people are coming over to see that rally,

690
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: and then Side B has a rally the same day,

691
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 1: like you said, in the same area, and someone's got

692
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: to go get gas at the store, and the two

693
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: people that are going to be crossing paths are just

694
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: kind of pawns in the game.

695
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 3: Huh, yeah, it can be. That can be the case.

696
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 3: They do this a lot more in Europe than they

697
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 3: do in the United States. I think it shocks us

698
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 3: when it happens a little bit, because truth be told,

699
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 3: that it hasn't really been proven that social media, that

700
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 3: Russian troll farms and social media can really move the

701
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 3: needle in campaigns, let's say. But they can turn the

702
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 3: temperature up for sure, and they're much they're quite more

703
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 3: active in Europe, where there's uh, you know, in some

704
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 3: of those countries, there's less social stability. They've got a

705
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:18,359
Speaker 3: much more inverted demography which sets the you know, let's say,

706
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 3: the young tax base that feels quite outnumbered, and they're

707
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 3: supporting all these massive pension systems through very limited means

708
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 3: that falls on some sympathetic ears in Europe in certain cases,

709
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 3: and especially in you know, the Eastern European countries, so

710
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 3: you know, those that have been under the Russian yoke before,

711
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 3: Let's say, you know, principally you know, Poland, Romania, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia.

712
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,439
Speaker 3: You know, they're they're watching very closely and they're they're

713
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 3: trying to police these kinds of things.

714
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:54,479
Speaker 1: But Adovi, right, Weldova is watching, right, is that right? Yeah?

715
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 1: Big time? Right, Like that's a that's almost like probably

716
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:58,720
Speaker 1: what he wants to like suck up next.

717
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 3: But you know, like the Catolonia independence movement in Spain,

718
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 3: you know, is getting lots of Russian backing because like

719
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 3: why not interfere in Spain?

720
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 4: Like why not? Like what does that cost us? It's nothing?

721
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: Why not? You know, why not? You know, just know

722
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: they want some grain, you know, here you go and

723
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: now they like us and trying to get that you know, charisma.

724
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 1: Even same with you know, the guy he's meeting all

725
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,280
Speaker 1: the time from China, you know, the president over there.

726
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,919
Speaker 3: The Russian strategy in the Sahel is fascinating and they're

727
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 3: you know, Wagner is very active down there. They're you know,

728
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 3: they're transforming into the Africa cores, right, But they're backing

729
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 3: a number of military jentas and dictatorships that have overthrown

730
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 3: elected governments and all of those countries. The argument for

731
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 3: their rule is essentially that look, you know, the the

732
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 3: the elected and Western backed governments have done a very

733
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,439
Speaker 3: poor job of protecting the public from international terrorism one

734
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 3: and two. There you know, no one is seeing any

735
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 3: real you know, economic benefits.

736
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 4: Let's say number two.

737
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,359
Speaker 3: And so the Russians come in and they say, look,

738
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 3: well will guard your you know, your middle resources in

739
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 3: your minds. We just want a dividend and we'll you know,

740
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 3: we'll train your security forces, and we're not afraid to

741
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 3: go out and fight with you, and we'll go fight.

742
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: J N.

743
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 3: I am with you directly, and we have no problem

744
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 3: lay in some bodies out and we're not going to

745
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 3: say anything about human rights abuses or anything. The one

746
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 3: thing that we ask is that you throttle natural gas

747
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 3: exports to Europe. And the idea of you know, behind that,

748
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 3: you know what, whatever you know with whatever countries they're

749
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,439
Speaker 3: working with in Africa, is to throttle those resources, whether

750
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:54,240
Speaker 3: it's gas oil, uh you know, or you know, other commodities.

751
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: Let whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, you.

752
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 3: Know, send those things to to Russia. We'll pay you

753
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 3: for them and then we'll figure out how to export

754
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 3: them to other countries. And you know they're creating leverage.

755
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: Yeah they are, and that's something to be thought about, right,

756
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I just wore I grew up

757
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 1: in a very different time. You know. Nineteen eighty three

758
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: was the little Red Beta video that we watched Red

759
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 1: Dawn on at my dad's Green Berets Buddy's house, Jerry

760
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 1: and we were hanging out there, Bro. And it's the

761
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,959
Speaker 1: thirty fifth anniversary right now as we're talking, this year

762
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: of Red Dawn. And I know there was a part

763
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: two out there, but if you go see the first one,

764
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: please go see the first Red Dawn nineteen eighty three

765
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: movie eighty four and just check it out. You know,

766
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 1: the new one has Chris comes Worth it and I

767
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 1: think four right, he's in that, but the old one

768
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: has Patrick Swayze and the Radiator and it just kind

769
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: of gives you a sense of wolverines and what wolverines

770
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 1: are and what we should all be wolverines about. Okay,

771
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 1: say wolverines, bro Okay. Because I sat in my dad's office,

772
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 1: I would not go to seventh grade. I just didn't

773
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: have a good time at school. And it was at

774
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 1: this His armory was at the same junior high that

775
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,320
Speaker 1: I went to. Funny enough, so the wrestlers use the gym,

776
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,839
Speaker 1: the pe teachers used the gym, the teachers upstairs use

777
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: it for math, and then during the rest of the

778
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: day it was all guard, it was all nineteenth Group,

779
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 1: it was all theirs. They would take their rucks off.

780
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: I'd see the gym in a different light. I would

781
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 1: see all the guys standing getting off of like some

782
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: deployment and taking all their gear off, and then going

783
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 1: to see the families while everybody else is watching a

784
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 1: basketball game. So I'm growing up in a little office

785
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 1: janitor's closet, and it's got this film in there that

786
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:42,320
Speaker 1: I could just pull any film off of the wall

787
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: and put it in and a slide it over, and

788
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 1: it's like ten ninety tank. It's like, and I can

789
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:48,919
Speaker 1: just go slow with the film and see like all

790
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 1: about the ten ninety tank and all of its armament,

791
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 1: and then it goes like I could pick out the RPG,

792
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 1: and I loved watching and sitting there scrolling the RPG

793
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 1: and watching all the different flared out versions of its

794
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 1: rockets that they had. So I've grown up very warsaw

795
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 1: understanding right of all that kind of like stuff from

796
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 1: ten eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen years old, I still feel

797
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: that way. I'm just saying, you know, Curtis, there's just

798
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: something in the back of my mind. That just says

799
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 1: the empire wants to resurrect itself, you know. You know

800
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 1: when David Hasselhoff danced on the Berlin Wall singing to

801
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: the Germans that it was down, you know, and Reagan's like,

802
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: mister Gorbachev, tear down that wall, you know, and everybody

803
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, East can meet West, Families

804
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: can be reunited. People weren't just shot trying to cross

805
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: the border, which was what's happening in East Germany, you know,

806
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 1: all underneath that kind of horrible situation, and Gorbachef and

807
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 1: everybody like what happened when Medvedev made Putin prime minister, right,

808
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 1: that's kind of when it all went south, isn't it

809
00:43:58,560 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: is that right to I have that right?

810
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:07,240
Speaker 3: Well, so it was Borsh. Yeltsen ordered him prime minister

811
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety nine, and then Yeltsin's health started failing

812
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 3: and he was grooming Putin for the presidency, and when

813
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 3: he resigned as prime minister, Putin became acting president until

814
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 3: he was officially elected in two thousand. In the spring

815
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 3: of two thousand and yeah, he he by the Russian constitution,

816
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 3: he could only do two terms as president directly, but

817
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 3: it doesn't say consecutively, excuse me. So he stepped down

818
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 3: and became prime minister while Dmitri Medvedev was president for

819
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 3: four years, and then he ran for president again.

820
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 5: And he got it, surprise, surprise, yes, and then after

821
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 5: another two terms, they decided to amend the constitution so

822
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 5: that he could do a third term.

823
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: That's what he's in right now, right.

824
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and that's what's going on now.

825
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 1: This is his total of like fourth term though.

826
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 3: Yes, I'd have to do the math on that, but

827
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 3: I want to say, oh, wait to twelve was Medvedev,

828
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 3: and then another eight years of twenty twenty, and he

829
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 3: had to amend the constitution before twenty twenty. Yeah, to

830
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 3: get a third term in a row. I think that's correct.

831
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 3: I'd have to go back and double check.

832
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean really, he's just wanted to be you know, Vlad.

833
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 3: But you know, getting back to our original topic, you know,

834
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 3: it's fascinating the Russians have they've figured out how to

835
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 3: spool their war machine up. Now, it's taken them two

836
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 3: years and some change to finally spool up all of

837
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 3: their defense industries. They had to fire a lot of

838
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 3: corrupt people. They had to reinvent supply chains from scratch.

839
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 3: But they are finally manufacturing munitions and they are finally

840
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,760
Speaker 3: It's not particularly good at building like let's say, smart bombs,

841
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 3: you know, especially not things that need like thermal optics

842
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 3: and electro optical but they can make dumb bombs and masks.

843
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 3: They can make artillery shells and masks now and they're

844
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 3: producing that and so they are for the first time,

845
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 3: you know, they can engage in these artillery exchanges, you know,

846
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 3: around the Ukrainians, and they can kind of pressure the

847
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 3: Ukrainian line on all fronts. And for the more sophisticated stuff,

848
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 3: they're working with China, and this is part of how

849
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 3: do they evade sanctions. Well, they trade enormously with the

850
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 3: Chinese and the other bricks. So you know the bricks

851
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 3: are it's Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa. But

852
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 3: they've had some new members now, including Egypt, the United

853
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 3: Arab Emirates. I can't remember if Belarus is or not.

854
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 1: It might be.

855
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 3: I know Iran is, and I think Argentina was invited

856
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:59,399
Speaker 3: but their new president elected against it. But essentially they're

857
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 3: all trading with each other and Russian. So Russia is

858
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 3: exporting in volume and importing in volume mostly through the

859
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 3: other Bricks countries and using them as third parties to

860
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 3: get access to Western technology. The Chinese are a particularly

861
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 3: interesting case in this because of the Chinese are a

862
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 3: massive manufacturer of silicon and microchips. They're not particularly good

863
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 3: at the intellectual property piece. They're not very good at

864
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 3: designing new stuff, but they're you know, the the relatively unsophisticated,

865
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:37,839
Speaker 3: you know, sixty nanometer chips, twenty five nanometer chips like that.

866
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 3: Your twenty five nanometer chip is probably what's in your car, right,

867
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 3: the sixty nanometer chips, that's like what's in your kid's

868
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 3: little gigapet or you know whatever, or maybe they you know,

869
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 3: that's that's the kind of thing that's in like your microwave.

870
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 1: Your gay boy old school hasn't say tecmobile, But there

871
00:47:58,120 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 1: you go.

872
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 4: Back man, that was a great game.

873
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, really right, I love it?

874
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:06,879
Speaker 3: Due yeah, Technic Bowl, check my Super Bowl.

875
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

876
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 3: But yeah, they're you know, the Russians have figured out

877
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 3: that you can take a relatively unsophisticated microchip, you can

878
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 3: put that on a glider and then you can attach that.

879
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:23,320
Speaker 3: You can build a fab glider around a five hundred

880
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 3: pound bomb and you can glide that with relatively you know,

881
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 3: good accuracy and a very cheap investment. You can glide

882
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 3: that bomb down onto a target. I mean name that

883
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:36,760
Speaker 3: a Ukrainian tank or a bridge or whatever.

884
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 1: Right, and that's whatever it's within range, Yeah, whatever it

885
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 1: can get to. So they just yeah, they can take

886
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 1: the old school stuff, the artillery. They can make shells,

887
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 1: they can make the stuff that they've were good at

888
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 1: World War two stuff. You know, probably a couple of

889
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 1: Car ninety eight a case. Those were reverse engineered from

890
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 1: the stream of cover, right, So I mean really that

891
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:02,399
Speaker 1: wasn't even there a regional creation. They had to take

892
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 1: it from you know, the German lines. And so you know, well,

893
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: what would you like to give us as a positive

894
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 1: for us watching this and listening? You know, where should

895
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 1: we go if social media says, hey, this is what's happening.

896
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 1: Should we check ourselves? Should we just be nice to

897
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:21,240
Speaker 1: one another?

898
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 3: Well I would, of course, I would love us to

899
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 3: be nice to one another, but that's never going to

900
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 3: happen as long as countries have divergent interests. I mean,

901
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 3: it's not a It's not a facet of who is

902
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 3: elected nearly as much as it's a facet of of

903
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 3: what those people you know, in those prospective countries see

904
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 3: as their their national interests, and those are always going

905
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 3: to conflict with one another. The good news, I can say,

906
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 3: you know, and I recently published a paper through Military

907
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 3: Review called who NATO is Ready for War? And it's

908
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 3: the polls have really stepped up to the plate in

909
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,919
Speaker 3: a big way. The Polls are now running a six

910
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 3: division army. For comparison, the Germans, the French, and the

911
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:08,280
Speaker 3: British are all running about three divisions with some change,

912
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:12,319
Speaker 3: but the Poles have arguably the most powerful land army

913
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 3: in Europe right now. The Turks are also not to

914
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 3: be fooled around with. The Turks have a four hundred

915
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 3: thousand person army that is the second largest in NATO

916
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:24,879
Speaker 3: after the United States. They have a very sophisticated air

917
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 3: force and they've shown that they can project power in

918
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 3: there near abroad in a very real way. And they

919
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 3: have a young, bristling, healthy demographic, which means there's lots

920
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 3: of young men that they can draft into the force.

921
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 4: If they want to.

922
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:41,919
Speaker 3: And those are both going to be very very real

923
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 3: checks against Russian aggression in eastern Europe and the Caucasus

924
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,800
Speaker 3: and around the Black Sea. The Germans are now taking

925
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 3: their defense a little bit more seriously. They're very acutely

926
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 3: aware of their history and so they never want to

927
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 3: be in a situation where national word, let's say that

928
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 3: the defense apparatus is setting national policy in Germany. But

929
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 3: they Boris Pistorius is doing a good job as Defense

930
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 3: Minister in terms of let's say, retraining their standing forces, somewhat,

931
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 3: updating their strategic planning and doctrine, and trying to iron

932
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 3: out kind of the fraud defense industrial relationships that the

933
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 3: Germans have so that they can update their equipment hardware

934
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 3: and make sure that they have sufficient munition stockpile. And

935
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:34,240
Speaker 3: that's about the best we can expect from Germany.

936
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:36,879
Speaker 1: Right. Germany even said, like, you know, they're trying to

937
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 1: have their own supply of everything. They don't want to

938
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:44,319
Speaker 1: have to be so reliant on the gases and all

939
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 1: the natural gas and everything coming in from the pipeline.

940
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:49,919
Speaker 1: I do recall something an article somewhere that I read

941
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 1: where it was Germany has a like, hey, how do

942
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: we become self sufficient? Ourselves. It's going to have to

943
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 1: depend on that pipeline if we got cut off or

944
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 1: Europe gets cut off any of those supplies.

945
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 3: They do deserve some credit too. I mean, they've basically

946
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 3: elected to go into a depression. They're they're officially in

947
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 3: a recession right now, but I think there's a depression

948
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 3: ahead in their future, you know, on the moral grounds

949
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 3: that they can't do business with Russia anymore. And so

950
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 3: they you know, the Germans, even though we have to

951
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:23,240
Speaker 3: heap some scorn on them because the Russian ground forces

952
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 3: were rebuilt with euro like they were, they were rebuilt

953
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 3: off the funds that the Russians got from oil and

954
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 3: gas exports to Europe.

955
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 4: But the Germans deserve some.

956
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 3: Credit because now that we're you know, now that the

957
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,400
Speaker 3: Russians are at war of Ukraine, they've said, look, we

958
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 3: will take the economic hit.

959
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 4: We're not trading with them anymore.

960
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 1: So they're trying to become their self sufficient. And you know,

961
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 1: to the Germans out there that are doing that, you know,

962
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 1: at it, keep at it right, yep, that's it, straight

963
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 1: up straight, and.

964
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 3: We will figure out what is going to happen with

965
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 3: France in the near future. Here they've gone through a

966
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 3: very tumultuous election cycle. I don't think I don't think McCrone.

967
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 3: I think he was very unwise on how he orchestrated this.

968
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 3: But the far far left French has taken over, you know,

969
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 3: and in France.

970
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 1: Yeah that stop stop election or the yeah did a

971
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:20,720
Speaker 1: quick stop gap election or whatnot.

972
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 3: And we don't really know exactly what that's going to

973
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,879
Speaker 3: mean for French public policy, but I guarantee you that

974
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:33,239
Speaker 3: the French armed forces and the Army Diteire is not

975
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 3: going to It's going to be a low funding priority.

976
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 3: So we will have to see what form that takes.

977
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:42,359
Speaker 3: And then the labor Labor has come to power in

978
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 3: Britain right and the Tories have been wiped out in

979
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:52,720
Speaker 3: an an unprecedented way. But that's a weirder circumstance as well,

980
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 3: because maybe it's the smallest voter turnout for that election

981
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 3: in history, and it's like they no one wanted to

982
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 3: vote for labor, but they needed to punish the Tories.

983
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 3: And so you know, the new Prime minister is coming

984
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 3: in and we could say a lot about him, but

985
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:14,759
Speaker 3: for a defense let's say, for a defense analysis, I'm

986
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 3: very very skeptical that he's going to prioritize in their

987
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 3: very fraught budget, you know, funding land forces in any

988
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:25,880
Speaker 3: real sense, I would, given how fraught their budget is

989
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:31,040
Speaker 3: right now, and given how overtaxed the the British public is,

990
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 3: I would not be surprised if Britain downgraded their their

991
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 3: ground forces to a two division structure.

992
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:41,240
Speaker 1: Interesting, and they're also dealing with kind of a civil

993
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 1: you know, unrest over there right now, with a lot

994
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 1: of I guess riding in the streets, and you know,

995
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 1: and they are having a shift in their government as well.

996
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 1: At the same time. Again, this is kind of like

997
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:57,399
Speaker 1: a perfect you know, plot for bad actors to get

998
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:00,839
Speaker 1: involved and cause just so confusion a course over there,

999
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 1: you know, like we were talking about.

1000
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And you know, to be I am, I

1001
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:13,319
Speaker 3: am an institutionalist, not a populist in any sense. But

1002
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 3: one has to appreciate that that populism only rears its

1003
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:22,400
Speaker 3: head when policymakers are not taking care of the items

1004
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 3: that are important to the public. And if you populism

1005
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 3: goes away the moment you take seriously the legitimate concerns

1006
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:35,080
Speaker 3: of the voters. And in the United Kingdom, they have

1007
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:39,880
Speaker 3: not taken seriously in any way, massive legal immigration and

1008
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 3: for them that looks like forty five fifty five thousand

1009
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 3: people coming across the English Channel and boats and skiffs

1010
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:52,839
Speaker 3: every year. And people are livid about it because they one,

1011
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:54,839
Speaker 3: they don't feel that they can make ends meet as

1012
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 3: it is, and these low skilled nounskilled laborers compete in

1013
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 3: the workforce with the working class, especially in northern England,

1014
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 3: and when they complain about it or they protest about it,

1015
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 3: they get called all the nasty things that you can imagine.

1016
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:10,759
Speaker 3: It doesn't mean they're all right on the whole. Immigration

1017
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:14,359
Speaker 3: is a healthy thing provided it's it, provided it does

1018
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:18,360
Speaker 3: not it is has the appropriate it controls in place

1019
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 3: so that it doesn't undermine the culture, sure, and so

1020
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 3: that it's positive to the workforce and not a it

1021
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:30,200
Speaker 3: does not create a deleterious effect in terms of wages.

1022
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:33,319
Speaker 1: Like there's accountant for it, it's like it's documented, it's

1023
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 1: it's like done appropriately. And we understand. I understand that

1024
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:41,359
Speaker 1: people want to fleep, persecution and famine, and you know

1025
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 1: they hear about you know, the Golden brick roads in America,

1026
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 1: and you know that's probably something that I have always

1027
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:52,279
Speaker 1: taken for granted that opportunity to that I'm here, you know,

1028
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:54,879
Speaker 1: and all that, and I can only imagine someone trying

1029
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:57,520
Speaker 1: to get over into England. I've been over there several times,

1030
00:56:57,520 --> 00:56:59,879
Speaker 1: and you know, I've been told that I have more

1031
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:04,000
Speaker 1: of a real British accent than people in England because

1032
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:07,879
Speaker 1: so many people have just gone into the UK over

1033
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 1: time from all over the place, with that access to

1034
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:15,279
Speaker 1: their shores, that they've changed the language to what we

1035
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 1: hear with the accent.

1036
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 3: Whereas yeah, you know, it's it's astonishing, and that's that's

1037
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 3: a real volume of people.

1038
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 1: It is. It is to change kind of the way

1039
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:29,959
Speaker 1: you talk.

1040
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 3: They've delegated so much public policy making power out of

1041
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:39,280
Speaker 3: Parliament now too. They've they're creating all of these artificial

1042
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:44,080
Speaker 3: institutions that decide public policy by means of their own

1043
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 3: wisdom and education, and they're delegating these authorities out of

1044
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 3: Parliament as a you know, the central argument is that, well,

1045
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 3: no one in Parliament has the expertise, which would beg

1046
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 3: the question why don't you elect people with expertise?

1047
00:57:58,360 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 4: Then?

1048
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 3: Right, But you know, when you delegate authorities to a

1049
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 3: single issue committee on climate change, let's say, and I

1050
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 3: happen to be in favor of reasonable carbon emissions, but

1051
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 3: one has to appreciate that that's a balancing process in

1052
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 3: public policy. We have to reduce carbon emissions at a

1053
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 3: certain acceptable level, but we also have to make sure

1054
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 3: that we don't drive up energy costs so that the

1055
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:26,120
Speaker 3: average family doesn't suffer from you know, horrible living conditions

1056
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 3: and inflation, and you know, people have to be able

1057
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:31,560
Speaker 3: to drive their kids to school. Parliament is elected to

1058
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 3: debate those issues in England and come up with some

1059
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 3: sort of a middle ground and a pathway forward. But

1060
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 3: when you create a climate change committee or a climate

1061
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 3: change panel that decides for the country what public policy

1062
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 3: is in that domain, there's no debate, there's a single

1063
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 3: issue committee. And they don't appreciate that politics is the

1064
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 3: art of trade offs. And so this is driving populism

1065
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 3: and it's going to get worse and worse until they

1066
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 3: take it seriously.

1067
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:02,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it seriously, take it seriously or else just

1068
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:05,760
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, that's crazy. You're cool. No, it's

1069
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:08,480
Speaker 1: a cool conversation. I'd be like, well, we got into it, okay,

1070
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:11,439
Speaker 1: I mean it's been an hour and five minutes all right,

1071
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 1: I don't even know. It's usually it's like, hey, we're

1072
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 1: it's at an hour, but it's just going back and forth.

1073
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 1: And I just want to say, you know, I have

1074
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 1: had you for an hour and so much time that

1075
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:21,240
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you taking time out of your busy

1076
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 1: day to be here with us and share your insights

1077
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 1: and and just knowledge, and just your demeanor and just

1078
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 1: your positive kind of persona. I really appreciate that. You know,

1079
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 1: you say both sides, You give it how it is,

1080
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 1: and I like to try to be that way as well,

1081
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 1: you know. And I'm also a big believer in freedom

1082
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 1: of choice for each individual, and I think you kind

1083
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 1: of have that same vibe. So you know, go get

1084
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 1: that tattoo if you want it, but you don't have

1085
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 1: to make me get the same tattoo. That's freendom of choice. Okay,

1086
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 1: that's a good way to say it. It is. It

1087
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:55,560
Speaker 1: is if you want to get it, but hey, I

1088
00:59:55,640 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 1: might not. Okay, All right, now, your book, I'm gonna

1089
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:02,840
Speaker 1: to read it. Hold on because it's a title and

1090
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:05,280
Speaker 1: I want my listeners out there to go check that out.

1091
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:09,240
Speaker 1: Let me go back here. Hybrid Warfare the Russian Approach

1092
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 1: to strategic competition and conventional military conflict. The Russian Way

1093
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 1: by Curtis Fox, a wonderful guest and someone who's always

1094
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:20,760
Speaker 1: welcome back on the show with more insight about this

1095
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 1: exact stuff we're talking about.

1096
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 3: You're always welcome, hey, Red, It's been a great conversation.

1097
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 3: I'm sorry we had to wait six months to do it, man,

1098
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:30,440
Speaker 3: but thanks for making it fun.

1099
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're you're awesome, and we'll we'll do it again.

1100
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:35,439
Speaker 1: There's it'll, it'll come and go. Don't you worry. Don't

1101
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:38,200
Speaker 1: you worry. I got you. I got you all right now. Now,

1102
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 1: with that said, and on behalf of my guest Curtis

1103
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 1: Fox and Brandon Webb, my chief managing editor of software

1104
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 1: dot com, and Guy and Chris and everybody else, I

1105
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 1: want to mention that the load out Room dot com

1106
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:53,280
Speaker 1: is something that you should go check out. I'm gonna

1107
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 1: be putting up articles there. We've got new authors that

1108
01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:59,280
Speaker 1: are gonna be bringing new content like cave exploring. Man.

1109
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:01,400
Speaker 1: You want to see some crazy pictures. We got a

1110
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:03,680
Speaker 1: guy that puts everything in and all he has is

1111
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:06,000
Speaker 1: a photo of his feet sticking out. I don't even know.

1112
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 1: So that's coming to the Loadoutroom dot com and again

1113
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:11,240
Speaker 1: thanks to Curtis for being here and taking the time

1114
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:12,840
Speaker 1: out of his busy day and we'll have him back

1115
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 1: on the show. And this is Rad saying

1116
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 2: You've been listening to your self wreck Radio