1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You should know, a production of five 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W Chuck Bryan over there 4 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: somewhere in the heart of darkness. I'm in the office, dude. 5 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: Where I hear your voice, Chuck, but I can't see you. Yeah. 6 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know why people need to know 7 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: the behind the scenes things, but home recording provides some 8 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: challenges and I was getting pretty frustrated. So I was like, 9 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna go to the studio. Yeah, 10 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: because I know it'll sound great in here, and I 11 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: know there won't be dogs and children, and uh, everyone 12 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: should feel good about it because I have not seen 13 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: another human being. Yeah, in the building. Security didn't a 14 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: security guard try to run you off the road when 15 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: you were parking. He didn't try. He stopped me literally 16 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: in the parking lot. Was like, what are you doing here? 17 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: I was like, I'm going to my job, and he 18 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: said okay, he said stay home, save lives. But before 19 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: we left, I mean apparently since I left. Uh, they 20 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: have these. Um, there's a bottle of microphone sanitizer. WHOA, 21 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: there are headphone sanitized or not sanitized, but just disposable 22 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 1: headphone covers. Sweet, and I feel more safe here than 23 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 1: I do at my house. What microphone sanitizer that sounds 24 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 1: really made up? Yeah, it's um. We'll go ahead and 25 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: buzz market. No I won't because it smells bad, and 26 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: I didn't want to buzz market and then say it 27 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: smells bad. It's apple flavor, which would make Emily just 28 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: like turn over in her bed. It's a it's a 29 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: good um jolly rancher flavor. Not the best scent, though. 30 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: I hate it when they add sent to stuff that 31 00:01:55,080 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: doesn't need scent. Try finding an unscented garbage back these days. Uh? 32 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: Is it tough too? Yeah? Man, every single one of them. 33 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: I even got some that said unscented and it still 34 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 1: smells like something you've missed it. In parentheses underneath it 35 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: says mostly we can't help ourselves one percent. Rosemary Well, 36 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: I don't have my over the ear headphones right now. 37 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: I just look one of you mas long scarves wrapped 38 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: around my head twice to keep from your audio bleeding 39 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: onto the track through my microphone. You either look like 40 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: Lawrence of Arabia or like you just wandered in with 41 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,119 Speaker 1: a headed tree. Yeah, I had to kept slipping off 42 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 1: with the lawrence of Arabia. Look, so I had to 43 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 1: do it the other way around. So now it looks 44 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: like I have a nineteent century toothache. Oh, man, to 45 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: me another picture. It's not it's not very comfortable. My 46 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: Adam's apple is being pressed towards the back of my 47 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: throat right now. Yeah, what was the deal with that 48 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: whole toothache thing? Like? Was there ice in there something? 49 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: Or was it just like I just die their gin 50 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: shutting help? Knowing that era, there were probably some sort 51 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: of like razor blade and heroin concoction that would just 52 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: scrape the area where the tooth was and inject you 53 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: with dope to keep you from complaining. Doctor Dr Payne's 54 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 1: new chin wrap now with more leeches right from the 55 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: makers of microphone sanitizer. All right, let's get into this. 56 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: We've already been goofing around for too long. Let's just finish, 57 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: just get this over with. Let's get serious and talk 58 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:50,839 Speaker 1: about spiritualism, shall we. This is a great, great job 59 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: by grab Stir, great idea by you, and it'll be 60 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: a great episode. Yeah, grab Stir, We we asked him 61 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: to help us out with this, so we put together 62 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: a world class article for us, and um, when we 63 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: asked him, we said, hey, how about spiritualism because my 64 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: brother wrote his dissertation on that should be simple and 65 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: I mean just afforded us that it did. It didn't 66 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: even like a racist brother's first name. He just did 67 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: a strike through and wrote ed after easy Money. So, um, 68 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: it is like a really really interesting phenomena and something 69 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: I think we kind of take for granted because it 70 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 1: pops up everywhere in our world in pop culture. I mean, 71 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: it's just a part of everything from crystal balls to seances, 72 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: to Weiji boards to tarot cards, all of this stuff. Movies. Yeah, 73 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, I ran across so you know, 74 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: dan Ackroyd's huge into UFOs, right, I didn't know that. Actually, 75 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: he's also enormous into spirits and ghosts. It's actually one 76 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: of the impetus is Yeah, I think so of him 77 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: writing Ghostbusters. He's actually a fourth generation spiritualist with a 78 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: capital at like the Church Spiritualism. He was raised that way. 79 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: His his father, grandfather, and great grandfather were all spiritualists 80 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: and that's how he was raised as well, um, so 81 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: it does this kind of it's so permeated our our culture. 82 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: It's weird to think of a time when it wasn't there. 83 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: But there actually was this period starting and riot about 84 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: in the middle of the nineteenth century going well into 85 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: the twentieth century where there was a movement that basically said, 86 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: the spirit world is there, it exists. When you die, 87 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: your personality survives, and some people actually have a talent 88 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 1: for communicating with the spirits and the spirit world, and 89 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: we're going to start doing that. And that was spiritualism, 90 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: the spiritualist movement. Yeah. Um, and ed uh pointed out, 91 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: which we should as well, that ghosts and things like 92 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: that and ghost stories they had been around people have 93 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: been around everyone since the dawn of humankind has tried 94 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: to figure out like what happens after you die too, 95 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 1: people visit, do they take on, you know, other other 96 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: forms or whatever. So that's different than what we're talking about. 97 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: What we're talking about is spiritualism in that it became 98 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: a a big scam in way to get money out 99 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: of people who are in pain for my friends or 100 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 1: loved one's death sadly, Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, but 101 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:36,039 Speaker 1: there is like a through a thread through there where. Um. 102 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: This same era, the same period, in this belief in 103 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: communicating with the spirits and the idea that you could 104 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 1: go to a seance and talk to your dead loved 105 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: one or whatever. It produced this other group of people 106 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 1: who said, yes, there are tons of fraudsters and hucksters 107 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: out there who are taking advantage of this, but there's 108 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: also this real, Um, there's a the real version of 109 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: of it actually does exist, and we're gonna apply this 110 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: new fangled thing called science to investigate it. And that 111 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: produced that that era of people like Charles Fort or 112 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: Harry Price who visited the Borerley Rectory the most haunted 113 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: place in England. Um. Or uh, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Um, 114 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: like those guys. I know I'm trying, not a new version. UM. 115 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: Like these guys though they they were they they believed 116 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: in this stuff and the possibility of it that they 117 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: also believed in the possibly of applying science to it, 118 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: and even if science couldn't explain it, it didn't mean 119 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: that it didn't exist. And then there was another group 120 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: who were what we would recognize today is like pure skeptics, 121 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: like the James Randy's of the day who all followed 122 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: in the footsteps of Harry who DENI is we'll see 123 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: who kind of created this. So you had hucksters, believers 124 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: who were skeptical and genuine pure skeptic dicks who believed 125 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,559 Speaker 1: none of it was correct. Yeah, and what I mentioned before, 126 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: like all the previous attempts to do stuff like this, 127 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: pre mid eighteen hundreds in largely the Northeast United States, 128 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: it was more religious like prophets and shaman and stuff 129 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: like that. Spiritualism was the birth of the Madame Cleo's 130 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: of the world. Uh Ed refers to it as a democratization, 131 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: and that's one way to look at it, but it was. 132 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: It was the idea that hey, if you are chosen 133 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,959 Speaker 1: and you are special, um, you could you know, it's 134 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 1: not like you have to be some religious leader. You 135 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: can just be a regular person with the gift exactly. Yeah, 136 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 1: which was a huge sea change. And um, there are 137 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,559 Speaker 1: basically a few things that kind of came together for 138 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:52,199 Speaker 1: this mentality this um this fertile kind of imagination of 139 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: this pocket of America and western New York where all 140 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: of this began to kind of take shape. And one 141 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: of those things was the frontier, this frontier mentality um. 142 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: The historian Frederick Jackson Turner called it the significance of 143 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: the frontier in American history, and he basically said, man, 144 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: the people who are living out there on the frontier, 145 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 1: they're living on the edge of civilization, the the leading 146 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: edge right right beyond that what they're coming up against. 147 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: And and this is highly debatable because part of what 148 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: they were coming up against was Native America. It just 149 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: wasn't a civilization in the forum that any European had 150 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: ever encountered before. But the idea was that the people 151 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: who are living on the frontier and expanding westward were 152 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: basically being forced just by virtue of having to survive 153 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: under these weird conditions outside of culture and civilization in 154 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: the European sense, that that they were having to abandon 155 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: that culture and basically make it up as they went 156 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: along and recreate a new culture from the frontier, and 157 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: that that just kind of through the rules out the window. Yeah, 158 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: this is one of my favorite things when we do topics, 159 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: that when you can look back at a movement and 160 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: point to factors that at any other time in history, 161 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: if just one of these might not have taken you know, 162 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: might not have influenced it, that it might not have 163 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,079 Speaker 1: happened at all. There's something about that that I've always 164 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: really loved. And uh, this is a perfect example. The 165 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: frontier life is one. Religious fervor is another. Uh. And 166 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: specifically in New York in the eighteen hundreds, people were 167 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: really caught up on this religious fervor and it kind 168 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 1: of went from town to town and there was no uh, 169 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: there was no big religious authorities in the area. They 170 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: were out on the frontier. They had no structured hierarchy 171 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 1: of religion, and so again they could just make up stuff. Uh. 172 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that's not tied to this next sidence, 173 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: because I don't want to turn anyone off, but a 174 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: lot of religion sprang out from this region during that time, 175 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: like Millerism and Mormon is um and uh, Quakers and 176 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: Shakers kind of had a a resurgence, basically a shot 177 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: in the arm, just because of this fervor going on 178 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: at the time. And I couldn't quite put where um Millerism, 179 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,479 Speaker 1: why it seems so familiar, And then I remember that 180 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: that was the woman who gave birth eventually to the 181 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,199 Speaker 1: Seventh day Adventists and that popped up in the Kellogg episode. 182 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: Remember yeah, yeah, Millerism was where it all started. But 183 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: that was and that really kind of indicates And I 184 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: love it when things just things we talked about before, 185 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 1: like have even more context from something else. But that 186 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: that just kind of goes to show you, like, this 187 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 1: is the kind of place where somebody could be like 188 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: I'm in contact with the spirits or Jesus came and 189 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: hung out with me or whatever, and this is what 190 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: I what I know and what I've been told. So, um, 191 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: let's start a religion based on it, and not even 192 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: necessarily just religions too, but also like social movements, like 193 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,319 Speaker 1: utopian societies where into your food twenty times, so you'll 194 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: poopies here exactly, um. Or you know, women have equal 195 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: equal rights as men, which is just completely radical. Or um, 196 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: how about fifty of us lived together and just by 197 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: the fact that we all lived together were married according 198 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: to this utopian society, just just whatever you wanted to 199 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: to do, you kind of could because the frontier through 200 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: the rules out the window, or at the very least 201 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 1: cultural traditions that most people are raised into. When that's 202 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: not there, people make up their own. Yeah, for sure. Uh. 203 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: And the third big factor that UM that you mentioned 204 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: was we haven't talked about yet with science. And you 205 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: talked a little bit about science at the beginning, but 206 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,839 Speaker 1: the idea that in the middle of the Industrial Revolution, 207 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: when we're really learning a lot more than we ever 208 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: have about science and things like electro electromagnetism and things 209 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: that you can't see, but science is saying, oh, it's there. 210 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: This kind of fed the spiritualist movement because you know, 211 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: that's something else that you can't see that other people 212 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: are saying is there. So they're like, well, hey, if 213 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: science is saying there are things out there we can't 214 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: quite explain, but trust me it's real, then why shouldn't 215 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: I believe this stuff too? Yeah? Or well this electric 216 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: like electro magnetism, maybe that actually explains how spirit survive 217 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 1: after death. It was a really wide open time as 218 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: far as you know, um acceptance of possibilities rather than 219 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: no science has said this is not possible, or it 220 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: can't explain this, or you can't see it with your 221 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: own eyes, so it won't It doesn't it doesn't jibe like. 222 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: There was a lot more willingness among people who were 223 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: scientifically minded to say, well, maybe this is a good 224 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: explanation of that. Let's investigate. Yeah, the birth of science 225 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: and medicine was a really crazy time. It really was. 226 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: It really was. So should we take a break? Yes, 227 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: come on, man, Yes, I think you're you're beard holsters 228 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: on too tight. I haven't been able to feel my 229 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 1: nose for about fifteen minutes. All right, we'll go, uh 230 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: rub your nose and bring some feeling back, and we'll 231 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: talk about some of the furty ritualists. Okay, I'm gonna 232 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: say it's spiritualists. Nice um. And there there was actually 233 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: so there was a bunch of factors that led to 234 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: the beginning of all of this, including there was one that, 235 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: um that I also came across that we need to mention, 236 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: a guy named Andrew Jackson Davis who combined ideas of 237 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: the German hypnotist Franz Mesmer with the Swedish philosopher of 238 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: the soul, Emmanuel swedenborg Um. They were both eighteenth century. 239 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: He kind of brought them together, and he was a 240 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 1: bit of a nobody, but he emerged very very soon 241 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: after the Fox sisters became celebrities as a founder of 242 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: the spiritualist movement. Almost like he was doing it off 243 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: in isolation at the same time that all of us began. Yeah, 244 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: so the Fox sisters figure into this really quite largely. Uh. 245 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: And you can even pinpoint a date to what you 246 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: might consider the birth of the modern American spiritualist movement 247 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: is March thirty one, eighty eight in Hydesville, New York, 248 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: near Rochester, at a farm. This Fox family lived there, 249 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: real people, not a family of cute little red for 250 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: fuzzy creatures voiced by George Clooney exactly. Uh. Mr and 251 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: Mrs Fox had three daughters. Actually one was much older. 252 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: Her name was Leiah. She was nine seen in twenty 253 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: three years older. Whow was that funny? Because I saw 254 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: a picture of her, and she's like the spitting image 255 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: of Jeffrey Ross. You gotta look her up, Jeff That's 256 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: that's what Lea Fox looked like. I didn't see. I 257 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: saw the picture of the three of him, and I 258 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: didn't get a good close up. That's an unfortunate look 259 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: for him and her. Yeah, anybody really? Uh? And I 260 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: think he would admit that too. Oh yeah, but he's 261 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: doing all right there. What if he had really thin skin? 262 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: Ros Master he couldn't take a joke against him something. 263 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: Have you seen that Bumping Mike show. It's pretty good. 264 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: Uh No, is that the roast competition thing? Yeah? He 265 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: and Davidtel just sit there and roast people. It's really good. Man. 266 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: I used to love Davidtel back in the day. He 267 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: has just turned into like the weird like comedy genius 268 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: friend that that Jeffrey Ross has, and it shines through 269 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: in this awesome I'll check it out. So the Fox family, 270 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: older daughter Lea was nice teen and twenty three years 271 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 1: older than younger Kate and Maggie or I guess Maggie 272 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: and Kate if you're going in that order. And on 273 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 1: that night in March eight, they heard these rapping, knocking 274 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: sounds and they didn't know where it was coming from, 275 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: and that kind of kick started this whole thing. In 276 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 1: a weird way, this led and we'll talk about the 277 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,239 Speaker 1: more specifics, but in a weird way, this led to 278 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: them eventually saying, wait a minute, we can make some 279 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: money if we convince people that young Kate and Maggie 280 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: are a conduit to the other side. Yeah. The the 281 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 1: thing is is like when it went from you know, like, oh, 282 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: there's a ghost rapping or knocking like a Poulter guyst 283 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,959 Speaker 1: kind of thing too. This ghost will respond to questions 284 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,880 Speaker 1: from the sisters through rapping and knocking, like how old 285 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,439 Speaker 1: is Maggie? And it would wrap like fifteen times or 286 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: something like that. And that that really caught a lot 287 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: of people's attention. And Maggie and Kate moved in with Leah. 288 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: And apparently, from what I read, it was Leah whose 289 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: idea it was to take the show on the road 290 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,199 Speaker 1: try to scam people out of money. It was not 291 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 1: a super great person from from what I read. Yeah, 292 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,439 Speaker 1: I just sorry. I was thinking of a rapping ghost 293 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 1: and right got sidetracked. George Washington And I'm here to 294 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: say I love fruity pebbles in a mate a way. 295 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: You know what's funny is I was going to do 296 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 1: that exact same thing, but for the Fox family. That's 297 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,360 Speaker 1: like the go to rap for guys like us. Oh, 298 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 1: it totally is guys who can't wrap. Yeah, I'm here 299 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: to say something, something something in a something way. The 300 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: Zach Morris method, I think, is what that is. I 301 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 1: wonder if that's based on an actual rap. I guess 302 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: there was one at some point that really did that, right, Yeah, 303 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: I think Blondie was the popular. Um my name is Blondie. 304 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: I'm here to say I'm gonna try wrap because it's 305 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 1: popular today. Exactly. So, uh, where what were you saying? 306 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 1: I was laughing. I didn't even notice. I'm sorry, Oh, 307 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: just that it was basically I was laying at Leah's 308 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: feet for corrupting the younger sisters. Yeah, she kind of. 309 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 1: She ended up managing them as a unit, I think 310 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:22,120 Speaker 1: later on, if I'm not mistaken, But there aren't great 311 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: records of everything going on at the time. But um, 312 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: the idea was that Kate and Maggie were the ones. 313 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 1: It wasn't really her parents, but they're the ones who 314 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: could actually communicate with this barn spirit. And so they said, 315 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,120 Speaker 1: you know what, they not only can talk to this spirit. 316 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,880 Speaker 1: Media starts, you know, getting ahold of these stories, and 317 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: obviously back then that it was a very big deal 318 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: with something like this coming out in the media with 319 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 1: not a lot else going on. But they moved and 320 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: would go away to other places and said, wherever they go, 321 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,120 Speaker 1: ghosts are talking to them. So you guys, my daughters 322 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: are talented and gifted. They're not just talking to the 323 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 1: what we think is a murder victim from our previous house, 324 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 1: right right, which which just changed everything. And also rather suspiciously, 325 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: Leah suddenly realized that she was able to communicate with 326 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 1: spirits too, So all three of the sisters were able 327 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: to But yeah, not just that one murder victim in 328 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: their house that had been the original ghost, but just 329 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 1: about any ghost. And this was the beginning of the 330 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:31,120 Speaker 1: spiritualist movement. Basically a trank by a couple of teenage 331 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: girls that got way out of hand really fast. Yeah, 332 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,199 Speaker 1: and so what do they do. They start having these 333 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:41,159 Speaker 1: uh private sessions where people would pay money, and they 334 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: would wear these big long dresses that were in fashion 335 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: at the time, and they would no one's exactly sure 336 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: the exact mechanism, but they would do some sort of 337 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 1: toe knocking or something where they couldn't be seen. And 338 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 1: that was the Morse code that they said was the 339 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,640 Speaker 1: ghost speaking to them. So it was it's really um. 340 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: They they had like a little wooden stool under the 341 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,199 Speaker 1: table with them and they would take off their shoes surreptitiously, 342 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:11,640 Speaker 1: and from what I can gather, they could pop their 343 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: knuckle of their toe up and down with enough force 344 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: that it would make a thud on that wooden stool. 345 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 1: It was. Yeah, they should have just been like, forget 346 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: all this spirits stuff, but this weird thing, um. But 347 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,719 Speaker 1: that that was that was the phantom knocking. And we 348 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: know that because Maggie later on confessed to the New 349 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,880 Speaker 1: York Tribune maybe or the Post one of them, um 350 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 1: and and said like, this is how, this is how 351 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: we did it actually in an effort to take her 352 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:50,679 Speaker 1: sister Lea down. UM. But it ended up taking the 353 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: spiritualist movement down in large part. But that was it, 354 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,120 Speaker 1: like thumping your knuckle on a wooden stool. They did 355 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: this for forty forty years. They made a living around 356 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 1: the world doing that and created a new religion from it. Yeah, 357 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: and the UM. By the time the spiritualism fad sort 358 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 1: of died away, the two younger sisters were and she 359 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: recanted that confession, by the way, but everyone's like, yeah, 360 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 1: you already said it could try, um. But the two 361 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: younger sisters uh and Maggie especially were in pretty bad 362 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: shape with alcoholism. And they died sort of in a 363 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: call your brother's sq way, very quietly and uh, fairly 364 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: destitute in New York City in the eighteen nineties, trapped 365 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: under newspapers maybe, but now they they had very interesting 366 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:47,880 Speaker 1: but also very sad lives like Um, I think Maggie 367 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,880 Speaker 1: married a skeptic and he not not a good move, 368 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: right he died. He talked her out of doing spiritualism, 369 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 1: but she went back after he died. Kate married another 370 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:03,439 Speaker 1: spiritual since she had a huge career um touring the 371 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 1: world as a spiritualist, made a lot of money, um, 372 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: but but apparently lost it all. And Leah again was 373 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 1: just kind of I guess, a bit of a villain 374 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 1: in this story. Where's that movie? Man? I was wondering 375 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: the exact same thing. It's crazy it hasn't been made 376 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: fifty times already, you know, Yeah, that would be that 377 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: would be pretty cool. I couldn't even find a good 378 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: documentary on it. Oh yeah, on them at least. I'm 379 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: sure there are plenty on that they're featured in. But 380 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 1: and no matter how you look at it too, whether 381 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: you look at it from the aspect of a believer 382 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: who thinks like this is where it all started, these 383 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,959 Speaker 1: two sisters, and there's plenty of reasons to believe if 384 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: you're a credulous person or um confiding, as Mark Twain 385 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 1: would put it, that, you know, like the the Andrew 386 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: Jackson Davis guy who who kind of started this thing 387 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 1: on his own, supposedly wrote on March thirty one, eighty eight, 388 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:06,120 Speaker 1: that spirit came to him and said, the work has begun. Um, 389 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: we just started something over here, and then later found 390 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: out about the Fox sisters. Like, there's all sorts of 391 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 1: stuff you can believe, and so it's interesting from that respect. 392 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: But also if you're just a pure gied in the 393 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,439 Speaker 1: Wold skeptic who do not believe in any kind of 394 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: afterlife or soul or anything like that, it's equally interesting 395 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,959 Speaker 1: in a totally different way that this whole like almost 396 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 1: century long movement started from that. You know, Yeah, I 397 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: just love it. I love this whole story. So it's 398 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: sweeping the nation at this point by the eighteen fifties, 399 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: and uh, we're gonna go over some of the different 400 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 1: things that they would do, some of the methods that 401 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 1: they would use to communicate with the other side, to 402 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: fake communicate with the other side. Uh. The first one 403 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: is channeling um and these would be trance mediums. So 404 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,880 Speaker 1: this is like when you've seen in a movie when 405 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: someone is just talking like I am in my regular 406 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: voice and I'm entering the trance and I'm doing a 407 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,160 Speaker 1: lot of a lot of showy things, uh, to kind 408 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 1: of get people, you know, pretty pumped up. I feel 409 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: like they're spending their money. Well, you giving me pumped up, 410 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: I'll tell you that. And all of a sudden, you know, 411 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 1: I go into this other voice and I'm like a 412 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: small child. Uh, maybe the parents lost a child, or 413 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: I'm a woman, or I'm Davis Jr. Hey, Brad, I 414 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: just came back to say that, don't worry about me. 415 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 1: This cat is doing just fine. I came back to 416 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: say I love pretty pebbles in a major way. Invented rap. 417 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: That's right. So, uh, if you were a good talented medium, 418 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: that that meant that you were probably a pretty good actor. 419 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,199 Speaker 1: You could probably do good voices. Um. Sometimes in the 420 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 1: case of course Scott, who I know, we've talked about 421 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 1: her before, her name, can't remember what, I have no 422 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: recollection or talking about her. Yeah, it sounds super familiar. 423 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: But she was one of the top mediums trans mediums 424 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: because she was this very sort of demure, attractive young 425 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: lady and her whole demeanor was about that. And then 426 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 1: she was apparently a great actor because she would go 427 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,360 Speaker 1: into this these big, heavy, gruff voices, and the gulf 428 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: between who she was and who she was imitating was 429 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: so great that everyone was just like, fantastic, Corra Scott, 430 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: you're a genius. Well also, yeah, she was like a 431 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: little twelve year old girl when she started, and supposedly 432 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: she would take the stage and confidently discuss like physics 433 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 1: and philosophy and all that stuff because there was some 434 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: authoritative spirit who had basically taken possession of her. Yeah, 435 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 1: and uh, I looked up her picture and Kate Winslet 436 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: I think is from my casting couches, who I would 437 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 1: throw in that movie. Okay, not not as the twelve 438 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,119 Speaker 1: year old that would be weird unless they do some 439 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: sort of bad irishman d aging. But she looked enough 440 00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: like her, and she's a she's a great actor. So 441 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 1: um So that's so. So. Channeling is what you kind 442 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: of think of, where somebody becomes possessed, the medium becomes possessed. Right. Yeah. 443 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,679 Speaker 1: There's also ones where like they're they're just saying like, 444 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: oh I can hear what they're saying, but you can't 445 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: because they're speaking to me through telepathy, right, Okay, that 446 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: that reminds me of John Edwards. Remember him crossing over 447 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,640 Speaker 1: with John Edwards? Yeah, I can't picture him. I think 448 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: if I saw a picture I would totally remember, though 449 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 1: you would he would. What a weird time the nineties 450 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: were as far as stuff like that goes, although I 451 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 1: think his show ran from two thousand to two thousand four. Yeah, 452 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,880 Speaker 1: but that can sort of coincided with the uh Reverend 453 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: Bob Dobbs and the televangelism and all that good stuff. 454 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 1: Um time. So then there's automatic writing was another big 455 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 1: one too, And all of this should sound familiar again 456 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: because the stuff just is so permeated in a pop 457 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: culture it's crazy. But automatic writing is instead of the 458 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 1: medium's voice being taken over, the medium being possessed in 459 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: and speaking as the spirit, um, the spirit took over 460 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: their hand and they would start writing and so in 461 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 1: just the same way Corus Scott would um have a 462 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: completely different personality or a different voice or different accent 463 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,919 Speaker 1: or something like that. This, like the handwriting or the 464 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: word usage or anything like that would be different than 465 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 1: the medium's normal handwriting. This is automatic writing and there 466 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: was I'm trying to decide if I could do that. Well, 467 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: sometimes they would use their non dominant hands, So if 468 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: you want to change your handwriting, just do that to start. 469 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: And then uh. There was a woman named Pearl Curran 470 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: who wrote at least five thousand poems, novels and plays 471 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: through automatic writing, all channeling the spirit of a seventeenth 472 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: century woman from England named patients Worth. That's prolific. That's 473 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: a lot of words. And then what about direct voice? Yeah, 474 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: direct voices When you are a medium, you contact a 475 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: spirit and the spirit is so powerful that they just 476 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: speak to you directly, like the medium is just sitting 477 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: there with their mouth clothes. Uh. And this happened usually 478 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 1: in a dark room where they would have a business 479 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: partner just behind the curtain obviously use talking, or maybe 480 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 1: they were just doing a bad ventriloquist kind of deal 481 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 1: where they're it's dark enough where you can't really see 482 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: their lips moving throwing their voice. There was a woman 483 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: named Leslie Flint is a medium. Oh really he looked 484 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 1: like the old man from up. Oh did it make 485 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:48,239 Speaker 1: you cry when you looked at him? My daughter watch that? 486 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: Here have these balloons? So yeah, Leslie. I actually love 487 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: that name for a man, so and I don't know 488 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: why I assumed, but he would recreate famous people like 489 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: Sammy Davis Jr. But was it very good at it apparently, 490 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: which is kind of funny. That makes us a little 491 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: bit more ridiculous and fun Well, I was reading um 492 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: obituary about him that was written by somebody who attended 493 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: one of his or a couple I think of his seances, 494 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: and they said things like, you know a lot of 495 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: times you could tell it like what the trickery was 496 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: or whatever, but there are other times where he would 497 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: like be speaking over the voice, which is tough to 498 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: do with ventriloquism. Or one time he was tested, he 499 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: was made to hold colored water in his mouth while 500 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: the spirit voice was speaking, and you're like, wow, you 501 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: know that's pretty interesting. And then you just think, well, 502 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 1: there's there's always an explanation for it, um, And you know, 503 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: maybe there's another person who who was a Confederate in 504 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: the room who knows, but um, it just goes to 505 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: show that even still even today, and this guy's obituary 506 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: that was written in the nineties the nines um that 507 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: they were like, yeah, you know, he was largely considered 508 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: a trickster fraud. But they'll still hedge and say, you know, 509 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: but there were a couple of things and at the 510 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: very least it's unexplained, which is pretty interesting and neat, 511 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: but that doesn't necessarily mean that, Oh no, there really 512 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: was a spirit that was talking in the room thanks 513 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 1: to him. Amazing. So we had table turning. Uh, this 514 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 1: is at a you know, this isn't like a theatrical performance. 515 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: This is in a small room. Everyone and this kind 516 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: of think wegia board with this. It's the same sort 517 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: of thing, except the wigia board would be the actual 518 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: table that you're sitting at. You and everyone would put 519 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: their hands on the table and then the table would 520 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 1: move or tilt or something when you're asking questions. So 521 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: it's inhabiting the furniture. Of course, what's going on here 522 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 1: is either like knee movements or sometime they had uh 523 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: these rings on the medium's finger that were slotted and 524 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: could move the table around without anyone noticing. Just another 525 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 1: little parlor trick basically, yeah, or you know the idea 526 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: that in your moving the table yourself like AUGI board. Um, 527 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 1: I can't remember what it's called, but basically your your 528 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: body is is moving without your brain being aware of it. 529 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: And then there's also just the straight up power of suggestion, 530 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: and this applies to table turning in a lot of 531 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: other stuff. But if you're saying, like if you're the 532 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: medium at a seance and you said the table is rising, 533 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: it's rising people who are willing to believe, a lot 534 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: of people who went to seance is wanted to believe. 535 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: We're already believed in this stuff. Just the power of 536 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: suggestion could be like, oh, it is raising a little bit, 537 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 1: I can feel it. I can tell kind of thing. Yeah. 538 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: My favorite, and uh, I bet your favorite too is 539 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 1: ectoplasmic manifestations. Yeah, it's pretty good. This is when you 540 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: would actually, as a spiritualist, produce something physical, something would 541 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 1: manifest itself, uh, an actual substance. And it was they 542 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 1: called it ectoplasm, and they could pull it from their 543 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 1: boy and it was just basically something that they would 544 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 1: make beforehand, um out of whatever. I mean, they would 545 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: make out out of all kinds of things. It was 546 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 1: one story about someone who was actually gluing cut out 547 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: faces from a magazine onto dolls and those were ectoplasm spirits. 548 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 1: But they would hide these things sometimes like up their 549 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: butt or in their other body cavities, and they would 550 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: pull these things out. And some of the pictures that 551 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 1: you see online if you look up ectoplasma eighteen hundreds 552 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: seance is just the pictures themselves are hysterical and frightening 553 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 1: all at the same time. Yeah, and especially now when 554 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 1: you look back and see them, you're like, how did 555 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 1: anybody fall for that? And it's really important to keep 556 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: in mind one they wanted to believe, but two, these 557 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 1: seances would be carried out in dark rooms to where 558 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 1: you couldn't see much at all. Um, you just suddenly 559 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 1: see some luminous you know, cloth or something that you 560 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: were led to believe was ectoplasm kind of what looked 561 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 1: like floating in the middle of the table or something 562 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 1: like that. It's stuff that's that's really easy to explain. 563 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 1: But in a darkened room that you've been sitting in 564 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 1: for three hours communicating with spirits, you might be a 565 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,399 Speaker 1: lot more prone to to buy into it than under 566 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:22,360 Speaker 1: normal circumstances. Yeah, for sure. Uh, maybe you're a little drunk, 567 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:28,359 Speaker 1: right tipsy. Levitation was another big one, nice little uh 568 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: party trick. Um. I actually could sort of do this 569 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:33,879 Speaker 1: for a little while. The David Blaine method. I don't 570 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: know if you ever saw his when he made himself levitate. 571 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 1: It's just kind of hopping up and down and air right. No, 572 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: it's it's you're thinking of trampolines. Oh, that's not the 573 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 1: same thing. People, people can see those. Uh No, it's 574 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: all about the angle with the David Blaine method um 575 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 1: of getting them to see you from the right angle 576 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,359 Speaker 1: to where what you're really doing is you're rising your 577 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 1: body up with just one, like just your first three 578 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 1: toes on your right foot, and you're and you're hiding 579 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: that with your other foot, so it looks like you're 580 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 1: just a sort of levitating a few inches off the ground, 581 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: and then you act like you're unsteady, and then you 582 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,319 Speaker 1: land back down and go, oh boy, that was a 583 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 1: good one. That was pretty powerful. So wait a minute, 584 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: David Blaine can raise his entire body weight with three toes, well, 585 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 1: I mean he's on his toes. I just I mean 586 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:30,320 Speaker 1: I could do it at the time too. This is 587 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 1: in the nineties. Man, that's impressive. I don't think I've 588 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 1: ever had the kind of toe strength there that is 589 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,759 Speaker 1: required to do that. You can raise yourself up with 590 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 1: one foot in a seated position. No, no, no, you're standing. 591 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 1: Oh oh yeah. So what you're doing is you're standing 592 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: there and then you raise yourself off the ground with 593 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: just the toes on your right foot, let's say, and 594 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: you're keeping your left foot is shielding that so you 595 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: can't quite see it, and it just creates if you 596 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: got someone at the right angle. And I got pretty 597 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 1: good at it. My roommate Justin was like, you're getting 598 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 1: bet a mate, right, Oh, I'm getting drunk. Well, both 599 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: of those things were happening. I thought you were talking about, like, 600 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,799 Speaker 1: you know, like a fake here or something like that 601 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 1: where they're sitting cross legged in their avocating I was like, 602 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,400 Speaker 1: to do that with just three toes, That in and 603 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: of itself is pretty impressive, but it's all right, What 604 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,440 Speaker 1: are the other There's another couple of things they did too, 605 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:32,960 Speaker 1: What are the photography? Pretty pretty straightforward stuff where you know, 606 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,479 Speaker 1: this is the very beginnings of photography. So people didn't 607 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 1: understand double exposures unless you're a photographer. But if you were, 608 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 1: you could do all sorts of neat stuff like double 609 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 1: exposed something to put a ghostly face in the background 610 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 1: over someone's shoulder. U. I saw one. I saw a 611 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 1: spirit photograph where it was a ghostly arm. It also 612 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,240 Speaker 1: could have been a genie coming out of a bottle. 613 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 1: One of the two. It looked exactly the same, but 614 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: it was like that it was on a table, so 615 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,360 Speaker 1: they were like, this is a spirit arm levitating the table. 616 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,880 Speaker 1: So they're like tying three things together. Table turning, levitating 617 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 1: and spirit photography. Those are great. I think the spirit 618 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 1: photography just because they were taking advantage of this new technology. 619 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,839 Speaker 1: People didn't even understand. It was like the deep fake 620 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,880 Speaker 1: of the time, and they were probably like everybody, we 621 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: got maybe three years, Yeah, we better get prolific, and 622 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 1: then everyone's gonna be like, oh, that's just double exposure. Um. 623 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 1: And then people like I said earlier to a lot 624 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 1: of the new age stuff that's tied into spiritualism today, 625 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 1: like tarot readings or um oh, I don't know, astrology, 626 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,359 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff that had nothing to do with 627 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:50,879 Speaker 1: this because spiritualists, all of it grew out of Christianity, 628 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 1: so there was some Christian basis to all of the 629 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 1: spiritualist practices. And even though in a lot of ways 630 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,479 Speaker 1: it was extraordinarily her ridical. There was no religious leader 631 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 1: in charge of anything. There was no scripture or doctrine 632 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,360 Speaker 1: or anything like that. It was still very much tied 633 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:14,360 Speaker 1: into and born out of Christianity, So stuff like occult 634 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,359 Speaker 1: things would have would have been very much frowned upon 635 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:21,399 Speaker 1: by spiritualists totally. Should we take another break, I think 636 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: we should. All right, We'll take another break and tell 637 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: you about what the Civil War had to do with 638 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 1: all of this right after this, all right, so, uh, 639 00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 1: pre Civil War in the United States, spiritualism was popular 640 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 1: or it was booming, but it was more like the 641 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,319 Speaker 1: kind of thing that you did in a theater and 642 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: you would go see it as a curiosity or you 643 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,359 Speaker 1: might just maybe even knew it was fake and it 644 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,640 Speaker 1: was just entertainment. There wasn't a lot going on back then. 645 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 1: Kind of penguins in a zoo today, like you know, 646 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 1: they're fake, but it's still fun to look at, right 647 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,719 Speaker 1: and not. Why not go pay a nickel to see 648 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,360 Speaker 1: madam whatever, do her little do her little erotic uh, 649 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 1: because we'll get into that he's got a little sexy 650 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,319 Speaker 1: at times. Do your little ghost, Jimmy. This is part 651 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:33,440 Speaker 1: of the part of the draw. The ghost Jimmy. But um, 652 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:35,920 Speaker 1: we need to talk about a couple of things here. 653 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,719 Speaker 1: That the Civil War for sure, but um, one of 654 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:40,759 Speaker 1: the things that was going on. You know, we've been 655 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 1: talking about a lot about the northeastern United States, and 656 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:45,400 Speaker 1: there's a very good reason it didn't take hold in 657 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: the South. It's because the way Christianity was and so 658 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,839 Speaker 1: I might argue still is in the South didn't leave 659 00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 1: a lot of room. Um, the hierarchy didn't leave a 660 00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,520 Speaker 1: lot of room for other schools of thought. And it 661 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,880 Speaker 1: was based sically, even though it wasn't necessarily cult. It 662 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,239 Speaker 1: was just shut down kind of from the beginning in 663 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 1: the South. They're like, we'll stick to our voodoo, thank 664 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:14,359 Speaker 1: you very much, exactly, keep that spiritualism stuff out. Yeah, 665 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: So it was just not a big thing in the South. Um. 666 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,000 Speaker 1: The mediums at the time would move off the stage 667 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,920 Speaker 1: sometimes and have these these private sciences. Uh. Sometimes they 668 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,360 Speaker 1: would get in touch with a family member, but oftentimes 669 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: it would just be kind of the same in the 670 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 1: state as the stage show. They would say, like, I'm 671 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 1: gonna get in touch with Sammy Davis Jr. Or whatever. 672 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,359 Speaker 1: The popular dead figure at the time was Sure. Um, 673 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,360 Speaker 1: but that was for like, pre Civil War, it was 674 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 1: an entertainment, it was an amusement. But when the Civil 675 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,200 Speaker 1: War came and a lot of people died in the 676 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,960 Speaker 1: Civil War, and that means that a lot of people 677 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,040 Speaker 1: who survived the Civil War lost a loved one. And 678 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,080 Speaker 1: this might have been people who you know, went off 679 00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 1: to fight and just never came back, never heard from again, 680 00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,839 Speaker 1: no nothing, have no idea where they died, where they 681 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,200 Speaker 1: were buried. And so that kind of grief, you know, 682 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:12,680 Speaker 1: that transcends any kind of time or place, and it 683 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,640 Speaker 1: created a lot of people, a large population of people 684 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,319 Speaker 1: who were very interested in getting in touch with their 685 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,600 Speaker 1: dead relative. And it just so happened that at the 686 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 1: time there was a movement afoot that said, oh, well, 687 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,600 Speaker 1: this guy over here is actually really good at getting 688 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:27,920 Speaker 1: in touch with the dead one. Don't you have a 689 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,880 Speaker 1: seance with him? You just have to, you know, pay 690 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 1: him to to do this work, because it is a 691 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,320 Speaker 1: lot of work, whether you are a believer and a skeptic, 692 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,719 Speaker 1: it's a lot of work to have been a medium 693 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,799 Speaker 1: during this time. Um. And so they would be paid 694 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 1: and they would make a living like this, and so 695 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:51,520 Speaker 1: these seances, these performances, uh, were decreased in size, but 696 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:56,399 Speaker 1: vastly increased in frequency. Yeah, a lot more spiritualists doing 697 00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:00,719 Speaker 1: smaller mediums for families or smaller seances for fami lens. 698 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,400 Speaker 1: And the same thing happened after World War One as well. 699 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,920 Speaker 1: So it's um, you know, it's kind of all fun 700 00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:08,759 Speaker 1: and games until it gets to this level. If it's 701 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:12,520 Speaker 1: a big theater show, fine whatever, Uh, go pay your 702 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,160 Speaker 1: money and get entertained for an hour. But when you 703 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,440 Speaker 1: are taking people's money who have lost loved ones in battle, 704 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:20,759 Speaker 1: then that's when it gets kind of really ugly if 705 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,759 Speaker 1: you ask me, right, And that's where I think a 706 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:27,160 Speaker 1: lot of the genuine skeptics who who beat this kind 707 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,000 Speaker 1: of stuff to a pulp, that's the place that they're 708 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,319 Speaker 1: coming from, you know, not not not necessarily that it's 709 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,760 Speaker 1: like an a front of science or reason or common 710 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,440 Speaker 1: sense or anything like that, but that there are a 711 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:43,400 Speaker 1: lot of people who have parted um money from people 712 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,120 Speaker 1: who were bereaved at the time, and you just you 713 00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,960 Speaker 1: don't take advantage of people who are undergoing grief. That's 714 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,760 Speaker 1: a pretty shoddy thing to do. That's a life lesson 715 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:57,840 Speaker 1: right there for everybody listening, especially Not only that, not 716 00:42:57,920 --> 00:42:59,879 Speaker 1: only taking their money. But I imagine in a lot 717 00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:03,080 Speaker 1: of cases people made real life decisions based on things 718 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,239 Speaker 1: that would happen in these seances. You know, right's to 719 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,800 Speaker 1: sell the family farm, like yeah, stuff like that. Oh God, 720 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,520 Speaker 1: I hadn't thought about that. And not only sell the 721 00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:15,080 Speaker 1: family farms, sell it to me the medium. That's what 722 00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:19,600 Speaker 1: your dead for. What something's coming through there saying pennies 723 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:27,040 Speaker 1: on the dollar, that's great. So yeah, that's terrible. So 724 00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,000 Speaker 1: by the end of the twentie century, things started to 725 00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:35,000 Speaker 1: decline a bit. Um. One was just pure greed. There 726 00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,120 Speaker 1: were too many of them out there. They were all 727 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,200 Speaker 1: trying to outdo one another. They were trying to draw 728 00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:42,279 Speaker 1: bigger crowds and more money, and they were getting more 729 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:46,280 Speaker 1: outrageous by doing so. And that meant, just like anything, 730 00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,799 Speaker 1: when you try and do that, the bigger you try 731 00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,040 Speaker 1: to force something to be Sometimes that can lead to 732 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,839 Speaker 1: its kind of early death. I guess, yeah, go big 733 00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:57,400 Speaker 1: or go home, But eventually you're going to go home anyway. 734 00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,160 Speaker 1: That's the end of that saying. I love right, so um. 735 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,200 Speaker 1: Part of it was that they they were making more 736 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,920 Speaker 1: and more audacious claims, but also there were more and 737 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:13,719 Speaker 1: more scientists like those that that UM open minded scientific 738 00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:19,120 Speaker 1: approach had become a lot more hardened towards UM spiritualism 739 00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:23,840 Speaker 1: and mediums because so many had been investigated and found 740 00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,960 Speaker 1: it just be total frauds. Most of the time, the 741 00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:32,200 Speaker 1: outcome was the the medium couldn't reproduce this ectoplasm or 742 00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:35,200 Speaker 1: get in touch with the spirit when they were under 743 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:39,920 Speaker 1: controlled conditions, or they they went for it and they 744 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,799 Speaker 1: were found to be a fraud, like the the the 745 00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,080 Speaker 1: knuckle of their toe was found to be rapping on 746 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,839 Speaker 1: a stool or something like that. UM. And so as 747 00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,960 Speaker 1: these reports kept coming out, more and more these scientific 748 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,640 Speaker 1: investigators were like, I don't think any of this is real, 749 00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,600 Speaker 1: and they would be interviewed in newspapers and the papers 750 00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,880 Speaker 1: would run these articles, and so over time the just 751 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,040 Speaker 1: the general public kind of turned away from spiritualism. Is 752 00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:08,480 Speaker 1: is hocom and bunk. But the thing is is not 753 00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,160 Speaker 1: everyone did and even still today. Go asked Dan a Kroid, 754 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,440 Speaker 1: there is a group of people who would here to 755 00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:20,040 Speaker 1: spiritualism as a as a religion, No for sure, UM. 756 00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,320 Speaker 1: And one of the big reasons that it didn't completely 757 00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:26,040 Speaker 1: go away was UH, spiritualists were very smart and that 758 00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,600 Speaker 1: they would use influencers of the day in their act. 759 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,680 Speaker 1: They would seek out these well known people. Um. They 760 00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:36,480 Speaker 1: would tour the world, sometimes tour Europe and do um 761 00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:41,480 Speaker 1: seances with like royal families of various countries, the newspapers 762 00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:45,799 Speaker 1: right about this. Um, they would get a quote or 763 00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:50,120 Speaker 1: maybe demand a quote from someone like well known and 764 00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:51,600 Speaker 1: they would say, all right, I'll come to a science, 765 00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:53,400 Speaker 1: but you gotta give me a quote that I can 766 00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:59,440 Speaker 1: use my my flyer or whatever. What's that called pull quote? No? No, no, 767 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:03,799 Speaker 1: the that that fallacy, the logical fallacy, appeal to authority, 768 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:08,000 Speaker 1: I think, oh yeah, yeah, the appeal to authority, yeah, 769 00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:10,640 Speaker 1: which you know makes a lot of sense if people see, oh, 770 00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:12,480 Speaker 1: well they did a stance for the Prince of Monaco 771 00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:16,879 Speaker 1: or or Sammy Davis Jr. Then it's got to be 772 00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:19,760 Speaker 1: good enough for me. It's not pseudoscience at all, because 773 00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:23,279 Speaker 1: why would Sammy Davis Jr. Believe in pseudoscience? Right, He's 774 00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:29,760 Speaker 1: just a Satanist. He doesn't care about pseudoscience, that's right. So, Um. 775 00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,400 Speaker 1: One of the other authorities that they would appeal to, 776 00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:37,160 Speaker 1: Chuck was, um, what this one. There's an expose written 777 00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:40,600 Speaker 1: in seven and by God if I can't, I can't 778 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:44,680 Speaker 1: find it anywhere in my tabs. But it was basically 779 00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,480 Speaker 1: uh oh, Revelations of a Spirit Medium is what it 780 00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,920 Speaker 1: was called. And it was written anonymously by a medium, 781 00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:54,840 Speaker 1: a huckster of fraud, and I'm pretty sure it was published. 782 00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:59,959 Speaker 1: And it is like four pages exposing all the tip 783 00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,920 Speaker 1: and all that stuff, all the tricks. But one of 784 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:08,120 Speaker 1: there's a glossary of like nineteenth century slang words among hoaxters. 785 00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,960 Speaker 1: It's amazing. But one of them was the top heavy, 786 00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,319 Speaker 1: and that was a scientist who was over credentialed. They 787 00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,359 Speaker 1: had all these PhDs and everything like that, so they 788 00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:18,960 Speaker 1: were booksmarked, but they were super gullible. And if you 789 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,520 Speaker 1: could get a top heavy to basically say, like, I 790 00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:25,160 Speaker 1: can't explain it, Science can't explain it, that would go 791 00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:29,399 Speaker 1: a very long way to bolstering your career. You know. Yeah, 792 00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,040 Speaker 1: Even if you talked to a hundred scientists and one 793 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:33,920 Speaker 1: of them was a top heavy who had said something 794 00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,560 Speaker 1: valuable to you, that's the only one You're You're the 795 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,719 Speaker 1: tenth dentist of that I'm out of ten dentists, right, 796 00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:44,520 Speaker 1: exactly exactly, And that's all you need, especially if the 797 00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:49,000 Speaker 1: other nine dentists just keep their traps shut because they 798 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:51,680 Speaker 1: have better things to do. But there were a bunch 799 00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,319 Speaker 1: of people who would not keep their traps shut. Um, 800 00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,160 Speaker 1: I guess actually one of a legendary top heavy even 801 00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:01,040 Speaker 1: though he wasn't a scientist, credential or otherwise was um 802 00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:05,839 Speaker 1: so Arthur Conan Doyle. I don't know what's wrong with me? Um, 803 00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:12,200 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, sir Arthur Coning. Do wheal by the way 804 00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:14,319 Speaker 1: before I forget if if there's not a band called 805 00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,400 Speaker 1: the tenth Dentist out there, then I don't know what 806 00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,560 Speaker 1: to think anymore. It's a good one. Remember those tried 807 00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:20,920 Speaker 1: in commercials? I think it was four out of five dentists. 808 00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:22,920 Speaker 1: One of them was a four out of five. He 809 00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,759 Speaker 1: was bit on the testicles by a squirrel before he 810 00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:29,240 Speaker 1: could pronounce how, before he could recommend dentin or trident 811 00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:31,520 Speaker 1: or something like that. Maybe it should be the fifth. 812 00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:33,279 Speaker 1: It is four out of five, it's not nine out 813 00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:36,959 Speaker 1: of ten. Do you remember that though it was great? 814 00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:40,799 Speaker 1: What was the what was the cult? Was it? We 815 00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:46,840 Speaker 1: make holes in teeth? Remember that the cartoon that was crest? Okay, 816 00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:48,839 Speaker 1: do you want to hear you want to hear the 817 00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:55,520 Speaker 1: pinnacle of eighties marketing. Two kids, my third grade maybe 818 00:48:55,600 --> 00:49:01,879 Speaker 1: fourth grade class put on a play about out yes 819 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:05,719 Speaker 1: and cavities sponsored by Crest. Yeah. They had a big 820 00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:09,440 Speaker 1: pushback then for taking over the minds of American children. 821 00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:11,719 Speaker 1: Well it worked. What's funny is is I now use 822 00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:17,160 Speaker 1: um aquafresh the orange tube? Oh? Man, if there is 823 00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:20,120 Speaker 1: a favorite toothpaste that any boy in America has ever had, 824 00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:23,840 Speaker 1: that is it in its mind that was from the eighties. No, 825 00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,319 Speaker 1: it is now. But I'm saying the Crest takeover of 826 00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:29,680 Speaker 1: my mind doesn't work? Got you? And I'm an aquafresh 827 00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:33,280 Speaker 1: point now? Is that the one with a tricolor? Yeah, 828 00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,919 Speaker 1: which is another very appealing part of it. Man, you'd 829 00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:40,319 Speaker 1: buy it all, don't you. I do? Yeah? I am 830 00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:43,640 Speaker 1: a little gullible. You're like an Arthur Conan Doyle. So 831 00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,680 Speaker 1: he if you recognize his name, he was the author 832 00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:49,239 Speaker 1: of Sherlock Holmes. Of course, he was super into this. 833 00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,640 Speaker 1: He joined the Society for Psychical Research, which is an 834 00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:57,960 Speaker 1: early skeptical slash believer society. Um, and he always he 835 00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:01,279 Speaker 1: bought into this. He was just convinced. Um. But on 836 00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,359 Speaker 1: the other side of the equation, we're skeptics who were 837 00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,200 Speaker 1: not convinced, who basically didn't keep their mouth shut. They 838 00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:11,000 Speaker 1: were the other four who would say, like, no, everybody, actually, 839 00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:16,600 Speaker 1: this guy's wrong. My esteemed colleague has has been taken um. 840 00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:19,160 Speaker 1: But then the head of those guys was Harry Houdini. 841 00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:24,280 Speaker 1: Amazingly enough, Yeah, Houdini um. Which makes it super ironic 842 00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:26,719 Speaker 1: that at the Magic Castle in Los Angeles they have 843 00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:31,520 Speaker 1: have long had Harry Houdini seance nights where you can 844 00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:33,800 Speaker 1: go into the Harry Houdini Room and do a seance, 845 00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:38,000 Speaker 1: which is, you know, it's all for fun. But it 846 00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:41,160 Speaker 1: is kind of funny that he was very much against 847 00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:44,360 Speaker 1: this stuff, although it supposedly if you go the Magic Castle, 848 00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:45,840 Speaker 1: they'll tell you that he did, and he may have 849 00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:52,080 Speaker 1: really done this. Is told his wife before he died that, hey, listen, 850 00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:54,840 Speaker 1: if I was wrong, I'll come back and I'll contact 851 00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:58,719 Speaker 1: you and let you know you're right. And and he 852 00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,440 Speaker 1: came back and he said, I've got good news and 853 00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,400 Speaker 1: I've got bad news. The good news is there is 854 00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:07,160 Speaker 1: a heaven. The bad news is your scheduled to pitch 855 00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:11,600 Speaker 1: there tonight. Do you remember that Scary Stories to Tell 856 00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:13,960 Speaker 1: in the Dark book? Yeah, where was that what that 857 00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:16,760 Speaker 1: was from there was like two friends who played baseball together. 858 00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:19,960 Speaker 1: He had a pact like Harry Houdini and his wife. Apparently. 859 00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,279 Speaker 1: I think that's a There's different versions of that joke though. Man, 860 00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:27,200 Speaker 1: the illustrations in that book were just barrened on. Yeah, 861 00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:29,760 Speaker 1: that was great stuff. And by the way, we should 862 00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:34,120 Speaker 1: give a big rest in peace to Mr Morton Drucker, 863 00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:37,640 Speaker 1: who passed away a couple of weeks ago in real time. 864 00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:39,719 Speaker 1: But that was that was a big one. We talked 865 00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:42,040 Speaker 1: about Mad Magazine a lot, and mort Drucker was my 866 00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:46,400 Speaker 1: number one with a bullet favorite artist and he passed 867 00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:48,799 Speaker 1: on and he was one of the greats. He definitely 868 00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:56,760 Speaker 1: shaped my childhood in a very large way with his drawings. Yeah, Um, 869 00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:00,120 Speaker 1: we'll hear from you soon, right, He's like you was 870 00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:04,640 Speaker 1: her pitching tonight? Oh no, both of us so so 871 00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:07,680 Speaker 1: Harry Houdini. He's like, yeah, Josh is gonna flub it 872 00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:10,000 Speaker 1: and Chuck's gonna have to be brought in for the safe. 873 00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:16,640 Speaker 1: So Harry Hudin Harry Judini created this longstanding tradition of 874 00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:23,799 Speaker 1: stage magicians, um exposing the fraud of spiritual is m Basically, yeah, 875 00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,600 Speaker 1: because they were, They're like, they're stealing our tricks. Yeah, 876 00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:29,279 Speaker 1: and it's pretty cool. Like he would incorporate into his 877 00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:32,719 Speaker 1: stage shows a lot of these things that spiritualists were 878 00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:35,680 Speaker 1: doing to show how they did it, and he was 879 00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:39,480 Speaker 1: relentless at it. Yeah, he was very relentless, but it 880 00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:41,479 Speaker 1: was very cool. And the fact that it's still going 881 00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:45,920 Speaker 1: on today. Um Richard Wiseman, who's come up a few times. 882 00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:48,080 Speaker 1: He was in the Shell Drake episode. He was in 883 00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:52,000 Speaker 1: the Ghosts episode, and I think we somehow misconstrued as 884 00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:54,600 Speaker 1: research in the ghost episode to suggest that he had 885 00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:57,799 Speaker 1: proven ghosts exists. I don't remember exactly the details of it, 886 00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,600 Speaker 1: but what we got that one wrong. But in this case, 887 00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:06,560 Speaker 1: he has recreated seances from the nineteenth century and has 888 00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:11,080 Speaker 1: shown how willing people are to totally misreport the events 889 00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:14,160 Speaker 1: that went on in the seance to say that yes, 890 00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,440 Speaker 1: you know, the table did levitate, or um all the 891 00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:20,359 Speaker 1: stuff that he's studying under these controlled conditions, and it's 892 00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:26,279 Speaker 1: basically shown not just that the the the medium himself 893 00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:30,240 Speaker 1: or more often herself as we'll see UM, was engaging 894 00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:33,839 Speaker 1: in fraud, but also that the audience was Um had 895 00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:37,000 Speaker 1: a willing suspension of disbelief and we're part of this too. 896 00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:39,759 Speaker 1: By saying like I felt the phantom arm tapped me 897 00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,520 Speaker 1: on the shoulder. The medium didn't have anything to do 898 00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:44,640 Speaker 1: with that. That was just something that kind of came 899 00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,800 Speaker 1: out of the environment that was produced in the seance. 900 00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:51,640 Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, pretty interesting, It is pretty interesting. So 901 00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:54,600 Speaker 1: we'll finish up here with this. UM. I thought this 902 00:53:54,680 --> 00:54:00,000 Speaker 1: was very interesting actually, the social implications of this. UM. 903 00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,480 Speaker 1: Most of the not all, but a lot of these 904 00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:06,480 Speaker 1: spiritualists were women in the nineteenth century. Um, for some 905 00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:08,960 Speaker 1: practical reasons, I could wear these long dresses that could 906 00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:14,640 Speaker 1: hide uh talented toe knuckles. Um, they were not because 907 00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:18,520 Speaker 1: of the time, they wouldn't get like searched too closely, obviously, 908 00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:20,960 Speaker 1: because you wouldn't do that if you were a scientist 909 00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:23,919 Speaker 1: trying to examine whether or not a spiritualist was real 910 00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:27,640 Speaker 1: or not. And that led to there were men, for sure, 911 00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:31,719 Speaker 1: But that led to this kind of interesting side note. UM. 912 00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:35,719 Speaker 1: One is that women could make their own money, and 913 00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,080 Speaker 1: so it's easy to poop poo something like this. But 914 00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:40,719 Speaker 1: I'm sure those Fox sisters made a lot more dough 915 00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:44,959 Speaker 1: than they ever could have as uh, you know, doing 916 00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:48,359 Speaker 1: anything else offered an available to them at the time. 917 00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:50,920 Speaker 1: So that's a good thing that gave him some agency. 918 00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:54,880 Speaker 1: But these uh, it was no coincidence that sometimes the 919 00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:59,200 Speaker 1: voice from the other side would champion sort of progressive views, 920 00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:02,560 Speaker 1: because this turned out to be a chance to sort 921 00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:05,400 Speaker 1: of reshape policy in a way. If you were a 922 00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:08,000 Speaker 1: woman and you were a spiritualist, it would be very 923 00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:11,400 Speaker 1: easy to say, you know, they're saying that that women 924 00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:14,200 Speaker 1: should have more rights and if not, they will come 925 00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:17,080 Speaker 1: back and haunt you, all right, And that kind of 926 00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:19,520 Speaker 1: ended up happening in some ways. Yeah, there was a 927 00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:24,960 Speaker 1: huge connection between spiritualism and spiritualist movement and abolitionism, the 928 00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:28,400 Speaker 1: women's suffrage movement, the women's temper or the temperance movement, 929 00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:33,440 Speaker 1: a lot of these progressive movements with workers rights and that. 930 00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:35,839 Speaker 1: You know, if you were an abolitionist and you didn't 931 00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:37,200 Speaker 1: believe in this kind of thing, you might be like, 932 00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:39,399 Speaker 1: I'm not really happy about that. But at the same 933 00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:42,520 Speaker 1: time it kind of whipped up this fervor and that 934 00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:46,160 Speaker 1: some people would like their spirits that that that was 935 00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:49,359 Speaker 1: that were being channeled by the medium. We're saying things 936 00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:52,240 Speaker 1: like you guys better get on the train of abolitionism, 937 00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:55,399 Speaker 1: you better get rid of slavery, and it actually did, 938 00:55:55,560 --> 00:56:00,560 Speaker 1: especially in these theatrical settings, have a widespread in fluence 939 00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:06,719 Speaker 1: on getting the message out there, um through the spirit communication. 940 00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:10,440 Speaker 1: Weirdly enough, yeah, it's almost like one could say anything 941 00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:12,560 Speaker 1: at all. It's something like, oh, I don't know a 942 00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:15,799 Speaker 1: campaign rally, and people would believe it if they were 943 00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:20,120 Speaker 1: an ardent enough believer in the speaker exactly, especially if 944 00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:25,279 Speaker 1: they detached their ego to you and your success. Very strange. 945 00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:28,440 Speaker 1: So um, I just want to give two shouts out, 946 00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:34,040 Speaker 1: one to the probably the greatest ghost movie that involves 947 00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:44,840 Speaker 1: seances ever ghost No WHOOPI Goldberg all right? The others, Yeah, 948 00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:48,080 Speaker 1: that was good, so good, and then spoil it. The 949 00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:52,200 Speaker 1: greatest short story involving seances in the spiritualist movement, written 950 00:56:52,239 --> 00:56:55,760 Speaker 1: by arguably the greatest American writer of all time, Joyce 951 00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:58,960 Speaker 1: Carol Oates. It's called Ninth Side. It's a short story. 952 00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:01,400 Speaker 1: It's the same time. Idol is a collection of her 953 00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:06,080 Speaker 1: short stories from the seventies. I think nine seven, Um, Nightside, 954 00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:09,839 Speaker 1: look it up and thank me later. It's seriously just 955 00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:13,279 Speaker 1: bone chilling how good it is. I wonder if we 956 00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:16,120 Speaker 1: could uh get in touch with her and read that 957 00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:18,919 Speaker 1: for our Halloween episodes. I tweeted to her once kind 958 00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:22,400 Speaker 1: of crassley, um, and never heard anything back. Even though 959 00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:24,800 Speaker 1: you're like Twitter, I know she saw that tweet. Hey 960 00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:28,880 Speaker 1: at Joyce Carol Oates, you think you're so cool? Right? Um? 961 00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:32,360 Speaker 1: I would love to read that one. There's another one too, 962 00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:36,480 Speaker 1: there's a she's probably not just the greatest American writer, 963 00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:41,320 Speaker 1: but the greatest American horror writer too. She's so wonderful. 964 00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:44,360 Speaker 1: I would read any of her stories. So if you 965 00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:47,680 Speaker 1: out there no Joyce Carol Oates were in contact with 966 00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:52,840 Speaker 1: her or her publisher, please, we would love to read 967 00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:56,480 Speaker 1: in our ad free episode one of her short stories 968 00:57:56,520 --> 00:58:00,280 Speaker 1: for Halloween. That's right, so I think she I like 969 00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:04,520 Speaker 1: that aspect. Okay, Oh one last thing, chuck. Uh. There's 970 00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:07,560 Speaker 1: a place called lily Dale in New York, appropriately enough, 971 00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:10,560 Speaker 1: which is basically a spiritualist community where you can go 972 00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:17,919 Speaker 1: basically be among spiritualists as a religion. Today wonderful, since 973 00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:23,880 Speaker 1: I said today it's time for listening to man, I'm 974 00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:28,720 Speaker 1: gonna call this. Uh. We haven't gotten emails in two 975 00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,919 Speaker 1: weeks from people because something's wrong with our email server. 976 00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:35,360 Speaker 1: So it's on the Days again, You're gonna get a 977 00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,840 Speaker 1: couple on bad days. I think, hey, guys, listening to 978 00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:40,840 Speaker 1: your recent episode on the Day's reminded me of a 979 00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:43,240 Speaker 1: funny story I thought you might like. Two thousand four 980 00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:45,120 Speaker 1: of my family bought a new house in the suburbs 981 00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:49,360 Speaker 1: of Detroit. Was designed and built by an exceptionally pragmatic, efficient, 982 00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:53,760 Speaker 1: yet lacking an aesthetic appreciation engineer. To our surprise my 983 00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:57,520 Speaker 1: husband's delight, as he is from Spain, the master bathroom 984 00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:00,360 Speaker 1: included a separate biday unit. I remember where this is 985 00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:02,400 Speaker 1: two thousand four, and people were not as familiar in 986 00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:05,280 Speaker 1: this country. Most people that visited our home had no 987 00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:08,240 Speaker 1: idea what it was, and we also made the decision 988 00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:11,960 Speaker 1: to not give advanced notice when they went to the bathroom. Invariably, 989 00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:14,120 Speaker 1: people would emerge from the bathroom trip either a little 990 00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:16,360 Speaker 1: wet or with an embarrassed look on their face as 991 00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:19,760 Speaker 1: they confessed having explored the contraption and released a stream 992 00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:23,640 Speaker 1: of water onto themselves and into our bathroom. Was always 993 00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:27,400 Speaker 1: good for a laugh. I sure appreciate you, guys. When 994 00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:30,360 Speaker 1: we moved from Michigan to the South to the South Carolina, 995 00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:36,160 Speaker 1: what she was? She once missed South Carolina because that 996 00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:39,280 Speaker 1: would explain that last bit. Now, I thought it was 997 00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:41,160 Speaker 1: she met the South, and I didn't see on the 998 00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:43,280 Speaker 1: next line it said Carolina. So that was just me. 999 00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:47,640 Speaker 1: Your voices accompanied us as we made many twelve hour 1000 00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:50,840 Speaker 1: trips back and forth. We enjoyed the knowledge and the tangents, 1001 00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:54,640 Speaker 1: even the tangents. Uh. And now you continue to suthe 1002 00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:56,200 Speaker 1: and educate me as I go on my four to 1003 00:59:56,280 --> 01:00:01,800 Speaker 1: five mile recreational walks during the pandemic quarantine and temporary 1004 01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:08,080 Speaker 1: hopefully furlough. And that is from Michelle sal Sado. Nice. 1005 01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:10,280 Speaker 1: Thanks a lot, Michelle. We're glad to know that you're 1006 01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:12,880 Speaker 1: doing okay. They're hanging out waiting for things to get 1007 01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:16,320 Speaker 1: back to normal in the South Carolina. That's right, chuck, 1008 01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:22,120 Speaker 1: um and uh as it will eventually go back to normal. Um. 1009 01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:23,680 Speaker 1: And in the meantime, if you want to get in 1010 01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:25,960 Speaker 1: touch with us, like Michelle did to let us know 1011 01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:29,360 Speaker 1: some silly story about it a day or what have you, 1012 01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:31,360 Speaker 1: you can get in touch with us. Send us an 1013 01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:38,280 Speaker 1: email to stuff podcast how Stuff Works dot com. Stuff 1014 01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:40,240 Speaker 1: you Should Know is a production of iHeart Radios. How 1015 01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:43,000 Speaker 1: Stuff Works. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit 1016 01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:45,760 Speaker 1: the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen 1017 01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:46,680 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.