1
00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:09,040
Speaker 1: Few technologies have advanced as rapidly as video games. The

2
00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,600
Speaker 1: Nintendo Classics that many of us grew up playing helped

3
00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,360
Speaker 1: to pave the way for what today is a juggernaut

4
00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,439
Speaker 1: industry that gives players a virtual experience unlike any other,

5
00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,520
Speaker 1: and one that occurs right in our own living rooms

6
00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:29,280
Speaker 1: and can connect us to a global community.

7
00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:37,480
Speaker 2: I have been gaming since I was like maybe four

8
00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:42,360
Speaker 2: when my dad brought over the Second Genesis, so I

9
00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:46,760
Speaker 2: would say thirty years I've been gaming, which is crazy

10
00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:48,000
Speaker 2: to say out loud now.

11
00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,920
Speaker 1: Will Wiggins is a gaming content creator, graphic artist, and

12
00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,520
Speaker 1: illustrator with a large Twitch following. Online. He goes by

13
00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,480
Speaker 1: the name Black One, and he's heavily involved in the

14
00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:00,080
Speaker 1: professional gaming community.

15
00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,080
Speaker 2: It's a little addicting, right because it's something that I

16
00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:07,920
Speaker 2: love doing and the people watching loved experience, and I'm like, oh,

17
00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:09,800
Speaker 2: I just have to do it more. I have to

18
00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:11,560
Speaker 2: do it later. I have to make sure I'm around

19
00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:13,840
Speaker 2: to get these big raids from all the other content creators.

20
00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:16,800
Speaker 2: We're smart, and it went to bed on time, like

21
00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,080
Speaker 2: they'll send their people over to me. I'm like, all right,

22
00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:21,040
Speaker 2: we've got some viewers, we got some engaged we got

23
00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:27,400
Speaker 2: some action, and as important as viewers are your health,

24
00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:29,720
Speaker 2: none of that is going to matter if you're not

25
00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:31,320
Speaker 2: there to keep them entertained.

26
00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,880
Speaker 1: Viewers add a whole new element to the gameplay, essentially

27
00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:40,760
Speaker 1: turning a passive pastime into a globally connected community. So,

28
00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:44,000
Speaker 1: for Will, what started as playing a couple levels of

29
00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:48,560
Speaker 1: Sonic the Hedgehog alone after school has ballooned into all

30
00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:52,920
Speaker 1: night raids and tournaments occurring across different time zones with

31
00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,440
Speaker 1: an untold number of players, all of this happening in

32
00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:00,400
Speaker 1: vast realities created by nothing more than ones in zero.

33
00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:07,160
Speaker 3: There's something different about some of these games and immersive

34
00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:11,600
Speaker 3: experiences that activate our brains in very different ways. I

35
00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:16,040
Speaker 3: think when you get into these games, it's very difficult

36
00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,240
Speaker 3: to pull yourself out. You may sit down and think

37
00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:20,560
Speaker 3: I'm going to play for an hour, get something to eat,

38
00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:24,600
Speaker 3: and get some sleep, and four hours later you're still

39
00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:25,480
Speaker 3: involved with it.

40
00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:30,480
Speaker 1: Doctor Chris Winter as an neurologist and sleep specialist from Charlottesville, Virginia.

41
00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:35,520
Speaker 3: I'm the author of the book The Rested Child. While

42
00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:37,919
Speaker 3: you're tired, wired, or irritable child may have a sleep

43
00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,360
Speaker 3: disorder and how to help as well. As the sleep Solution,

44
00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:43,240
Speaker 3: Why your sleep is broken and how to fix it.

45
00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,680
Speaker 1: One of the focuses of his career is the unique

46
00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:51,040
Speaker 1: effects that video games, screen time, and other related technology

47
00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:52,200
Speaker 1: have on our sleep.

48
00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,959
Speaker 2: Sometimes I find myself going to sleep and thinking about

49
00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:56,880
Speaker 2: the game I was playing.

50
00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:57,440
Speaker 3: I'm like, man, I.

51
00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,040
Speaker 2: Can't wait to get up and play some more. It

52
00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,519
Speaker 2: still happens even to me, So like if anyone else

53
00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:04,960
Speaker 2: experiences that, like I get it.

54
00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:10,399
Speaker 1: Will's experience navigating this massive community of constantly changing technology

55
00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,200
Speaker 1: is certainly unique, and it created obstacles to getting and

56
00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:19,240
Speaker 1: maintaining proper sleep, something that Chris knows all about. Using

57
00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:23,280
Speaker 1: Chris's expertise, Will delve into Will's journey to find out

58
00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:25,920
Speaker 1: what happens to our sleep when we spend much of

59
00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:30,680
Speaker 1: the night fighting aliens, looting dragons, and exploring virtual worlds

60
00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,280
Speaker 1: in a way that previous generations never knew.

61
00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:39,880
Speaker 2: Hi.

62
00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:44,760
Speaker 1: I'm Anahad O'Connor, and this is chasing Sleep and iHeartRadio

63
00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:59,800
Speaker 1: production and partnership with Mattress Firm. I've spent much of

64
00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,920
Speaker 1: my career looking into the obstacles that prevent us from

65
00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,680
Speaker 1: getting good sleep. Most of these obstacles have been with

66
00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,280
Speaker 1: human beings since we first started walking up right, things

67
00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,400
Speaker 1: like stress, finding time to rest, and even the position

68
00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,760
Speaker 1: of the sun. But a uniquely modern problem we face

69
00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,960
Speaker 1: comes from technology, both from being bombarded by blue light

70
00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,960
Speaker 1: from multiple screens and also from the extremely recent phenomenon

71
00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,839
Speaker 1: of video games, pulling our brains into completely different worlds,

72
00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:32,800
Speaker 1: often right before we try to go to sleep at night.

73
00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,359
Speaker 3: To our brains, these developers and these games are so

74
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:42,120
Speaker 3: good that they create real experience. You feel like you

75
00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:47,680
Speaker 3: were in the deserted compound, surrounded by zombies, trying to

76
00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:49,880
Speaker 3: figure out how to kill them and get to this

77
00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,360
Speaker 3: next place where all the other players are like, when

78
00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:55,920
Speaker 3: in fact, no, you're just sitting in a chair in

79
00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:00,480
Speaker 3: your bedroom looking at a box of light.

80
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,120
Speaker 1: A box of light with profound effects. Many of us

81
00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,640
Speaker 1: have fond memories of jumping on turtles and saving princesses

82
00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,480
Speaker 1: in those boxes of light. And as the games got

83
00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,520
Speaker 1: more intricate, not only were they more fun to play,

84
00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,960
Speaker 1: but an entire audience started to grow that liked watching

85
00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,640
Speaker 1: people play. A gamer streaming on Twitch like black ony

86
00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,040
Speaker 1: can neet tens of thousands of followers and views.

87
00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,599
Speaker 2: Back when I was living in Boston specifically, I was

88
00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:32,200
Speaker 2: working full time at least forty hours a week. I

89
00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,839
Speaker 2: was streaming at least three to four times a week.

90
00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:42,719
Speaker 2: I was writing articles and posting videos, I was podcasting,

91
00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:45,360
Speaker 2: and for a lot of the time, I was single,

92
00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:46,719
Speaker 2: so I was able to do a lot of this.

93
00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,479
Speaker 1: It's pretty amazing to me. So many of us have

94
00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:54,080
Speaker 1: watched the gaming industry evolve literally right before our eyes,

95
00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:59,000
Speaker 1: from these very unserious, blocky games where the main goal

96
00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,040
Speaker 1: was just to jump from platform to platform to what

97
00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:07,440
Speaker 1: we have today, these now ultra sophisticated storytelling medium As

98
00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,560
Speaker 1: you rode the wave of this changing technology, what were

99
00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,600
Speaker 1: some of the challenges that kept you from having a

100
00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:14,560
Speaker 1: healthy sleep routine.

101
00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:18,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was challenging, especially to realize my

102
00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,839
Speaker 2: limitations and realize like I needed to do better about

103
00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,520
Speaker 2: taking care of myself even though I felt like I was.

104
00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,720
Speaker 2: The sleep part was a really big part of really

105
00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,359
Speaker 2: buckling down, like, all right, I just have to I

106
00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:34,359
Speaker 2: have to get more sleep, or else this is just

107
00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:36,360
Speaker 2: going to keep happening to me. I'm going to keep suffering.

108
00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,080
Speaker 1: It sounds like you were aware of the challenges from

109
00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,239
Speaker 1: pretty early on, especially because so much of the streaming

110
00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:43,560
Speaker 1: traffic occurs at night.

111
00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:47,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so I did try to like squeeze in

112
00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,600
Speaker 4: every little bit of sleep I could, but it was

113
00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,960
Speaker 4: mostly because I was especially being on the East Coast

114
00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,120
Speaker 4: and trying to appease to the West Coast viewers as well.

115
00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,880
Speaker 2: I was staying up till at least two, maybe three

116
00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,160
Speaker 2: sometimes in the morning, every time I streamed, and I

117
00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,680
Speaker 2: was for a while, I was streaming almost every weekday.

118
00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:09,280
Speaker 2: During some of this time where I was doing just

119
00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,720
Speaker 2: all this other stuff and only getting like five hours

120
00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:16,000
Speaker 2: of sleep, I definitely remember this distinct feeling of feeling

121
00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,080
Speaker 2: like I was like in this fog, where like I

122
00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:23,160
Speaker 2: was just so much slower. Even though I was able

123
00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,320
Speaker 2: to like do so much during that time, I knew,

124
00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,240
Speaker 2: I knew in the back of my head that if

125
00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,480
Speaker 2: I was able to sleep more, I would be that

126
00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:36,200
Speaker 2: much more efficient. Like once I lay down and sit

127
00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:38,360
Speaker 2: to go on that bed, like I was out, that

128
00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:38,760
Speaker 2: was it.

129
00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,560
Speaker 1: While falling asleep quickly allowed will to steal resting time

130
00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:47,160
Speaker 1: at every opportunity throughout the day. The ability to snooze

131
00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,120
Speaker 1: as soon as we hit the pillow is actually a bug,

132
00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:54,160
Speaker 1: not a feature of our brains. According to Chris, it's

133
00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,000
Speaker 1: usually indicative of an unhealthy cycle of sleep.

134
00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:01,440
Speaker 3: One are the problems is if you ask most people

135
00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:04,880
Speaker 3: what is the sign of good sleep, they're going to

136
00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,600
Speaker 3: tell you how quickly you fall asleep. I always call

137
00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:13,080
Speaker 3: it speed to unconsciousness, if that's a thing. And so

138
00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,560
Speaker 3: when you're talking to two people, well, I'm a good sleeper,

139
00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,680
Speaker 3: but my roommate here, he's a bad sleeper. The good

140
00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,960
Speaker 3: sleepers often defining themselves as a good sleeper because they

141
00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,400
Speaker 3: get in bed and fall asleep fast, and the bad

142
00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:27,920
Speaker 3: sleeper man, he gets in bed, sometimes takes him thirty

143
00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,880
Speaker 3: four or five minutes to fall asleep. So it's interesting

144
00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,720
Speaker 3: that Will recognizes that because the idea that he's turning

145
00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:39,560
Speaker 3: everything off getting in bed and immediately out cold. Great,

146
00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:44,160
Speaker 3: but that could very well be indicating that his brain

147
00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,200
Speaker 3: is looking for more sleep than it's actually.

148
00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:51,319
Speaker 1: Gettingh Yeah, that's pretty unnerving. So you're saying people out

149
00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,360
Speaker 1: there could be suffering from something sleep related and not

150
00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:55,200
Speaker 1: even realize it.

151
00:08:55,920 --> 00:09:00,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you again, they're the ones who fall asleep immediately. Yeah,

152
00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:02,920
Speaker 3: they're the ones who when their partner comes to see

153
00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,360
Speaker 3: me because here she can't sleep, Mike, Well, tell me

154
00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,040
Speaker 3: about your partner. All he's a great sleeper. He's a sleeper,

155
00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,400
Speaker 3: he can sleep anywhere. So I'm usually thinking, as I'm

156
00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,120
Speaker 3: talking to partner A, I'm more worried about partner B.

157
00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,120
Speaker 3: Might want to get partner be in here because he's

158
00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:17,199
Speaker 3: really sleeping.

159
00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:20,440
Speaker 1: That makes sense that if you can fall asleep quickly,

160
00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:24,640
Speaker 1: it just means that you're starved for sleep. And speaking

161
00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:28,439
Speaker 1: of partners, I find it interesting that sharing our sleep

162
00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,800
Speaker 1: space and time with someone else often forces us to

163
00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:33,200
Speaker 1: look at it in a different way.

164
00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:38,680
Speaker 2: Being in a relationship forced me to approach it differently.

165
00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:44,920
Speaker 2: Specifically being in a relationship that I realized early on,

166
00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,800
Speaker 2: like I wanted to give more. For the reason I

167
00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,320
Speaker 2: was single for so long was because like I just

168
00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,640
Speaker 2: wanted to There was always that tension of like, all right,

169
00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,080
Speaker 2: do I spend more time with her or do I

170
00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:03,120
Speaker 2: spend time focus on my business and focusing on getting

171
00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,720
Speaker 2: my viewership up and getting more followers and blah blah blah.

172
00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,560
Speaker 1: If you can relate to being sleep starved, and let's

173
00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,000
Speaker 1: face it, most of us can, we tend to exhibit

174
00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:13,920
Speaker 1: more of these behaviors in our younger years.

175
00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:16,679
Speaker 2: I could have obviously been better about it, especially as

176
00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,720
Speaker 2: a younger guy. But I was just trying to fire

177
00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:24,520
Speaker 2: on all cylinders at all times, and it just drove

178
00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:27,199
Speaker 2: a wedge in between my health and my ambition.

179
00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,920
Speaker 1: When we think about our sleepless youth, we might remember

180
00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,240
Speaker 1: actually being able to perform fairly well, or at least

181
00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,960
Speaker 1: well enough. There may have been late nights burning the

182
00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:41,080
Speaker 1: midnight oil, followed by early mornings cramming for finals or

183
00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,640
Speaker 1: working double shifts. It might even seem like we simply

184
00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,600
Speaker 1: didn't need as much sleep back then. But what's really

185
00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,360
Speaker 1: the case is that our bodies were just better at

186
00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,240
Speaker 1: powering through without And.

187
00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,920
Speaker 3: When you think about video gaming in the ages of

188
00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,320
Speaker 3: people playing it, I have yet to encounter a sixty

189
00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,760
Speaker 3: seven year old who's crushing it in call of duty

190
00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:05,959
Speaker 3: every in some competition. They're young people, and the good

191
00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,000
Speaker 3: and bad thing about young people is they can kind

192
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:12,160
Speaker 3: of abuse their bodies and still do Okay, Yeah, because

193
00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,520
Speaker 3: you're young. That's why I always tell young athletes so like, oh,

194
00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:16,520
Speaker 3: I go out and play video games and go to

195
00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:18,640
Speaker 3: bars all night long, and as long as I get

196
00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,040
Speaker 3: four or five hours sleep, I'm great. But that's not

197
00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,360
Speaker 3: going to last. This is the time to really invest

198
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,600
Speaker 3: in your sleep. We see a lot of children in

199
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:31,000
Speaker 3: our clinic. The rise of twenty four hour gaming culture

200
00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,480
Speaker 3: is definitely something that we see. In fact, one of

201
00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,240
Speaker 3: the case studies in my new book, The Rested Child

202
00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:40,559
Speaker 3: was a family of a daughter who was spending a

203
00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:44,960
Speaker 3: tremendous amount of time between you know, after school, before

204
00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,840
Speaker 3: she'd go to school the next day on platforms playing

205
00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,000
Speaker 3: games where other people would pay her to do it,

206
00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,360
Speaker 3: you pay to watch her do it. So it was

207
00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:59,280
Speaker 3: a very unusual situation of Had she been in some

208
00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:04,120
Speaker 3: sort of travel soccer team, I guess her parents would

209
00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,480
Speaker 3: be much more supportive of it, you know, which's gonna

210
00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,280
Speaker 3: be the next Carly Lloyd or whatever. But they fundamentally

211
00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:12,600
Speaker 3: did not like the fact that she was just playing

212
00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:15,160
Speaker 3: video games all the time. Number one and then number two,

213
00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:17,400
Speaker 3: dramatically impairing your sleep.

214
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,120
Speaker 1: Bad sleep will certainly take its toll eventually, no matter

215
00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:24,280
Speaker 1: how young you are. The world of esports and professional

216
00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,560
Speaker 1: gaming is so new many are skeptical of its merits

217
00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:29,560
Speaker 1: or even the value it can hold as a full

218
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:34,160
Speaker 1: time career and income source. But gaming is a gigantic industry,

219
00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,800
Speaker 1: one that rakes in over two hundred billion dollars a

220
00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,040
Speaker 1: year with an audience that spans every corner of the

221
00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,360
Speaker 1: entire world. It's an audience that Will did everything he

222
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,040
Speaker 1: could to reach and engage with early in his career.

223
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,480
Speaker 1: As Will dove deeper into his passion, he found it

224
00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,160
Speaker 1: more and more difficult to perform at his best. There

225
00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:56,280
Speaker 1: was a constant struggle between getting more sleep or getting

226
00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:57,479
Speaker 1: more done.

227
00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,680
Speaker 2: So that was always the constant like friction of like, oh,

228
00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:03,319
Speaker 2: I know I need more sleep, but I know I

229
00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,200
Speaker 2: have to do way more things than just know that

230
00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:07,640
Speaker 2: sleep would afford me at the time.

231
00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,360
Speaker 1: It seems like waking up and playing or gaming in

232
00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,760
Speaker 1: the middle of the day isn't really an option. The

233
00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,920
Speaker 1: majority of this community games views or I guess you

234
00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:19,000
Speaker 1: could say enters the chat later in the day. Would

235
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:20,880
Speaker 1: you say that's the case for your audience as well.

236
00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:27,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that most people who are playing or

237
00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,360
Speaker 2: specifically playing together with other people are doing it in

238
00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:36,040
Speaker 2: the evenings because people are off of work, you've had

239
00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,880
Speaker 2: their dinner, looking for some way to kind of like

240
00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,160
Speaker 2: vibe out and play something with their friends or just

241
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,840
Speaker 2: get real sweaty and competitive and do something really fun.

242
00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:46,840
Speaker 2: Usually that happens that night.

243
00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,760
Speaker 3: So I'm a neurologist by draining, so everything boils down

244
00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,360
Speaker 3: to the brain and real estate within the brain. And

245
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:56,560
Speaker 3: when you look at sleep and what's generating sleep and

246
00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:00,800
Speaker 3: where that's happening in the brain, it's sharing real estate

247
00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,880
Speaker 3: that's very close to parts of our brain that regulate

248
00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:08,720
Speaker 3: body temperature and regulate immune modulation, strengthening or weakening your

249
00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:09,480
Speaker 3: immune system.

250
00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,120
Speaker 1: Will can definitely attest to that. He found himself wrestling

251
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,880
Speaker 1: with multiple debilitating bouts of sickness every year.

252
00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:20,120
Speaker 2: I used to get sick like three to four times

253
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,280
Speaker 2: a year, just like the cold, like or the flu,

254
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:27,520
Speaker 2: or just like some random thing that just completely takes

255
00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:31,240
Speaker 2: me out. And it was because every night, like every night,

256
00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:32,960
Speaker 2: I was getting like five hours of sleep.

257
00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,360
Speaker 1: And it's not just all night gamers that see this effect.

258
00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,520
Speaker 1: Any intrusion into healthy sleep has consequences.

259
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:41,840
Speaker 3: And I remember when I was in residency and doing

260
00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,680
Speaker 3: all that call, I was just constantly we were all

261
00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:49,200
Speaker 3: constantly sick. You know, we had no backup, so unless

262
00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,160
Speaker 3: you were dying, you had to come to us like okay,

263
00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,640
Speaker 3: well whatever. So and as soon as I got outside

264
00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:59,040
Speaker 3: of residency, all that went away. Cold sotares went away,

265
00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:02,640
Speaker 3: sicknesses went away, because there's a big tie in, and

266
00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,360
Speaker 3: so it's really interesting to look at some of that

267
00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:10,120
Speaker 3: work on the immune system and how that works because

268
00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:14,360
Speaker 3: we've always known. I mean, our grandmothers and great grandmothers

269
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,120
Speaker 3: could easily have told us, hey, look, if you don't

270
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:18,520
Speaker 3: get sleep, you're going to get sick.

271
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:20,960
Speaker 1: As far as I know, the idea that you could

272
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,880
Speaker 1: get sick from a lack of sleep was just something

273
00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,040
Speaker 1: people said that took a while to be proven true

274
00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,560
Speaker 1: by science. For a long time, it was just an

275
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,920
Speaker 1: anecdotal observation that if you were sleep deprived then you'd

276
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:34,000
Speaker 1: be more susceptible to flus and colds.

277
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:38,000
Speaker 3: We've always known it, but it took a long time

278
00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,560
Speaker 3: for science to sort of catch up and sort of

279
00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:44,080
Speaker 3: prove it. And so there's a wealth of information now

280
00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:50,520
Speaker 3: that really shows that quality sleep through manipulations of cytokinds

281
00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:54,160
Speaker 3: and immune modulating interlukens in our brain, not to mention

282
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,320
Speaker 3: the modulation of the chemical growth hormone, which is instrumental

283
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,160
Speaker 3: in strengthening and bolts during our immune system, all of

284
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,560
Speaker 3: those things rely on quality sleep. So when we get

285
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,520
Speaker 3: good sleep, we tend to shake illnesses much easier, maybe

286
00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:11,680
Speaker 3: never even manifest symptoms of them.

287
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,840
Speaker 2: It can't even be contested or debated like how important

288
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:20,560
Speaker 2: sleep is, so just not being sick alone proves worth it.

289
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:25,920
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after our brief message from our

290
00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:37,520
Speaker 1: partners at Mattress Firm, and now back to chasing sleep.

291
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:46,760
Speaker 1: So we have this fantastic community and platform for content creation, entertainment,

292
00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:51,720
Speaker 1: global connection, you name it. It's incredibly rewarding. We can

293
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,520
Speaker 1: do it from the comfort of our homes. It unites

294
00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:58,000
Speaker 1: people from all over the world. But the downside is

295
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,640
Speaker 1: that it forces us to be staring at these harmful

296
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:05,040
Speaker 1: blue screens, these basically light boxes, for hours at a time,

297
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,680
Speaker 1: and often right up until bedtime. So there's got to

298
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:10,879
Speaker 1: be ways that you deal with this. What are some

299
00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:13,760
Speaker 1: techniques that you use to make all this green time

300
00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:14,880
Speaker 1: easier on yourself?

301
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,840
Speaker 2: I do wear protective glasses whenever I am playing, just

302
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,879
Speaker 2: because I know that based on studies, that it has

303
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:28,560
Speaker 2: some type of impact on me. So I have two

304
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:33,880
Speaker 2: pairs of protective glasses for gaming specifically or for making art.

305
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:36,800
Speaker 2: One has an amber tint. So these ones have a

306
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,640
Speaker 2: little bit like a blue light blocking filter in them,

307
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,880
Speaker 2: and the other one is a crystalline one that has

308
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,800
Speaker 2: anti glare anti blue light, but it's much more subtle,

309
00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:50,120
Speaker 2: it's more clear. I use that for what I'm designing,

310
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:54,160
Speaker 2: and then I wear the glasses protective glasses pretty much

311
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,600
Speaker 2: all the time whenever I'm creating content on Twitter, Facebook

312
00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,840
Speaker 2: or whatever it is, just because, like I know, that

313
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:05,359
Speaker 2: does have an impact on your eyestrain, which has an

314
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,800
Speaker 2: impact on the way you sleep. And then introducing the

315
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:10,439
Speaker 2: blue light into that as well.

316
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it is a box of light after all,

317
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,200
Speaker 1: and when you add in late night hours and stressful

318
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:20,399
Speaker 1: gaming situations, it can be pretty straining. But neutralizing that

319
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,160
Speaker 1: light may help to reduce the damaging effects of late

320
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:23,720
Speaker 1: night gaming.

321
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:29,360
Speaker 3: Light in general is problematic. In other words, our bodies

322
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,879
Speaker 3: sort of set our circadian rhythm in a large part

323
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:37,560
Speaker 3: based upon available light. So when there's lots of light out,

324
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,959
Speaker 3: your body understands that it's daytime, we need to be awake,

325
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:46,440
Speaker 3: looking for food, reproducing whatever organisms do during the day.

326
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,639
Speaker 3: And then as the light becomes diminished, it's a really

327
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,080
Speaker 3: strong trigger through the chemical melotone and for us to

328
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:56,639
Speaker 3: get ready to go to bed. But just the light

329
00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,600
Speaker 3: in general being right there, you know, a foot and

330
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:03,960
Speaker 3: a half from your face, really bright, very exciting, is

331
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:09,880
Speaker 3: interrupting your brain's natural signaling of telling you it's nighttime,

332
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:11,920
Speaker 3: it's time to go to bed. In fact, your brain

333
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,040
Speaker 3: thinks very differently when you're in front of that screen

334
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,600
Speaker 3: and you see all that light. It's like, oh, it's lunchtime.

335
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,880
Speaker 3: This is the time to be awake. So when you're

336
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,800
Speaker 3: done with that session and turn your light out at midnight,

337
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:29,040
Speaker 3: your brain doesn't necessarily quickly realize that it's nighttime.

338
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,439
Speaker 1: And will reminds us that when we're worrying about the

339
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,239
Speaker 1: big screen, don't forget about that little screen that all

340
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,200
Speaker 1: of us can easily look at too much.

341
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,320
Speaker 2: Trying not to be on your phone too much when

342
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:43,120
Speaker 2: you're in the bed is a big one too. Usually

343
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,520
Speaker 2: when I'm going to bed, like I am ready to sleep,

344
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,760
Speaker 2: so I'll look at it so that I can set

345
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,400
Speaker 2: my alarm, read any emails that may have come through

346
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 2: that I might have missed. Beyond that, I'm not really

347
00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,040
Speaker 2: on my phone too much when I'm in the bedroom,

348
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,760
Speaker 2: just because, like, I know that you can stay up

349
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,400
Speaker 2: much longer, you know, if it isn't because you're looking

350
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,000
Speaker 2: at cat video on Instagram. It's because the blue light.

351
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:06,760
Speaker 3: Is keeping you awake.

352
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:11,720
Speaker 2: So I've made that a priority a pretty long time

353
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,159
Speaker 2: ago to just like all right, every once in a

354
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,040
Speaker 2: while I'll wake up and like write something down that

355
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:21,000
Speaker 2: I have an idea about. But beyond that, I try

356
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,240
Speaker 2: to limit the amount of phone I'm using.

357
00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,639
Speaker 1: The light factor is so impactful that Chris says simply

358
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:34,199
Speaker 1: taking down that brightness or wearing protective glasses could make

359
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 1: all the difference, because it's not just a box of light. Remember,

360
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,800
Speaker 1: this tech is changing and changing fast. There are devices

361
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,159
Speaker 1: that you can strap over your eyes that pull you

362
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:49,600
Speaker 1: into a virtual realm. There's entire metaverses being created that

363
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,040
Speaker 1: blur the lines between the game and real life. So

364
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,960
Speaker 1: anything you can do to mitigate this bombardment of light

365
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:56,920
Speaker 1: is helpful.

366
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,560
Speaker 3: This is always a difficult question just because it butts

367
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,760
Speaker 3: up against reality. You know, I hear you know, various

368
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 3: sleep experts speak, you know, well two hours. You know,

369
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,359
Speaker 3: we just really shut everything off two hours before you

370
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,399
Speaker 3: go to bed, and there's nothing wrong with that, but

371
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 3: I'm always like, well, what are you doing for the

372
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 3: two hours? Just sit there in the dark for two

373
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,159
Speaker 3: hours and think about life or something. So to me,

374
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,440
Speaker 3: if somebody says, look, I can't stop playing this video

375
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,520
Speaker 3: game at ten o'clock and wait around un till midnight

376
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,520
Speaker 3: to go to sleep, I think that's where you know

377
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,600
Speaker 3: dimming the light? Can we make your monitor less bright?

378
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,680
Speaker 3: Can we wear sunglasses or the blue block or glasses?

379
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,360
Speaker 1: It wasn't easy, but Will built up a big following

380
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,040
Speaker 1: and carved out an amazing path in the career of

381
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,199
Speaker 1: his dreams. We'll Sleep is a lot better now, and

382
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 1: so is his overall health and performance in life and work.

383
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:52,920
Speaker 1: It takes a lot to stay healthy, even in a

384
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,679
Speaker 1: community that we don't usually associate with workplace hazards or

385
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:58,120
Speaker 1: on the field injuries.

386
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,439
Speaker 2: Beyond you know, prioritize time to make sure you sleep

387
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:07,920
Speaker 2: is find out what you like with regards to how

388
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 2: you sleep, and be conscious of your health. So I'm

389
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 2: going to reference a competitive fighting game player. He goes

390
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:21,199
Speaker 2: by Toketo, and he's an excellent gamer. Not only is

391
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,959
Speaker 2: he like excels at the mechanical part of being a gamer,

392
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 2: but he is one of the people who really pushed

393
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 2: the narrative of why it's important to take your health

394
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 2: seriously when it comes to gaming because it's not always

395
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 2: considered like a high impact or performance based profession, right

396
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,160
Speaker 2: like not like being a basketball player. Taking your health

397
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 2: into consideration is just as important as how you strategize

398
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 2: within games to be better about them. Having the immune

399
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 2: system to be able to do those late nights whenever

400
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 2: you need to, like on rare occasions, like having the

401
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 2: mental and physical fortitude to be able to do that

402
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 2: without straining yourself too much. All that plays a part

403
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 2: in you being able to do what you love to

404
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,400
Speaker 2: do longer. And not just like in a literal sense

405
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 2: of like marathon sessions, but just life wise. You know,

406
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 2: things that you're doing to hurt yourself in this moment

407
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 2: can have residual effects down the line if you don't

408
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 2: do things to kind of counterbalance it.

409
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: So gamer or not, What is something that our listeners

410
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:37,160
Speaker 1: can control in their immediate future to improve their sleep?

411
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 2: Your bed? Like think about like what you're sleeping on,

412
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 2: and if it's really as good for your back and

413
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 2: for your body and for your sleeping patterns as you think.

414
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 2: So being aware of your sleeping habits and how you

415
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 2: like to sleep, and you know if you're a back

416
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 2: sleeper or a side sleeper, the size of the bed,

417
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 2: the firmness of it, the softness of it. Having all

418
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:07,919
Speaker 2: of those elements into play as well with your health

419
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 2: can make a big impact in how well you sleep.

420
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 2: So having some kind of priority on making sure your

421
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 2: bed is what you need it to be for you

422
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 2: to sleep your best is also a big part of

423
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 2: your overall health and something that will help you keep

424
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 2: doing what you love to do longer.

425
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,159
Speaker 1: There you have it, our beds. Just as each gamer

426
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 1: has their console or PC of choice, their favorite controllers

427
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 1: and hardware, each of us should treat the thing we

428
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: sleep on as a tool for better rest. Gaming isn't

429
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,880
Speaker 1: the only industry that evolves to challenge our sleep. As

430
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: our world continues to progress and modernize, we can face

431
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,959
Speaker 1: all sorts of challenges that our hunter gatherer ancestors couldn't

432
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: even dream of.

433
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 3: I was talking to somebody who was a professor at

434
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,439
Speaker 3: one time, and she said the hardest part about her

435
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 3: job was preparing people for jobs that don't exist now,

436
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 3: meaning that I'm talking to a student and in five

437
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,400
Speaker 3: years they'll be doing something that I didn't even know existed.

438
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,159
Speaker 3: And I think that really speaks to the rapid evolution

439
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 3: of things that are happening right now, particularly within technology.

440
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 3: And if somebody said one of the biggest threat to

441
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 3: a younger person in terms of their sleep, I would

442
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 3: say it's technology.

443
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 1: And if technology is the biggest challenge to sleep, that

444
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 1: puts people like Will Wiggins right in the thick of it.

445
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 1: That's all for this episode. Join me again next week

446
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,439
Speaker 1: when I learn how a wildlife documentarian sleeps in some

447
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,640
Speaker 1: of the most remote areas of the world, all while

448
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: being ready to record footage of some of the most

449
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: elusive animals.

450
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 5: The Alaska Peninsula is one of the densest populations of

451
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:56,640
Speaker 5: bears in the world. I've spent a lot of time

452
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 5: there intent in the middle of that country thousand pound

453
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 5: carnivores and you uns your tent in the morning and

454
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 5: there could be two, three or four bears in view.

455
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: We want to hear from you. Leave a rating or

456
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 1: review for our show on your podcast player of choice.

457
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at Anahad O'Connor. Until

458
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: next time, hoping you're living your best while sleeping your best.

459
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,679
Speaker 1: Chasing Sleep is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with

460
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: Mattress Firm. Our executive producer is Molly Sosha. Our EP

461
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:38,880
Speaker 1: of Post is James Foster. Our supervising producer is Keia Swinton.

462
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: Our producer is Sierra Kaiser. This episode was written and

463
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 1: researched by Eric Leijia and Jessica Patia. This show is

464
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 1: hosted by me Anahad O'Connor