1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: You are listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair. 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 2: Neither John Lithgow nor I remember how we met. I 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 2: think it was about twenty years ago. He thinks more. 4 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 2: I think it was a roommate from Harvard who introduced us. 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 2: He thinks a friend from New York. In fact, it 6 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 2: doesn't really matter. What matters is that John is living 7 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 2: in London performing in Giant, de rave reviews, playing Roles 8 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 2: Doll and He and his wife, Mary Yager's house is 9 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,919 Speaker 2: around the corner from mine. On Sunday nights, the one 10 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 2: day he's not on stage, they've come to supper. Our 11 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 2: friends love them, my children love them, and I love them. 12 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 2: John has played an alien, a cardinal, a serial killer, 13 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:50,599 Speaker 2: a prime minister, presidents, and though I've seen Giant three times, 14 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 2: the role I know best is John as a friend. 15 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 2: He is quite simply the nicest man I know. John 16 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 2: and I share a belief in the joy of song, 17 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 2: and right now in this world we are looking everywhere 18 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:08,199 Speaker 2: for joy. His albums for Children, Singing in the Bathtub, 19 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 2: Farkl and Friends, and The Sunny Side of the Street 20 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 2: are beautiful. I've been listening to him singing everybody eats 21 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 2: when they come to my house very relevant and my 22 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 2: favorite getting to know You both particularly relevant today. Right now, 23 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 2: we're at the River Cafe on Father's Day to talk 24 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:33,199 Speaker 2: about acting and food, theater and food, film and food, 25 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 2: family and food. 26 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 3: Who cares? How we bet? We're together? Now? Should we sing? 27 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 3: Getting to know you. 28 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 4: And getting to know you, getting to know. 29 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 3: You, getting to like. 30 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 4: You, and getting to hold you like me. 31 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 3: To Suddenly I'm right. 32 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 5: And easy because of the. 33 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 4: Things I'm learning about you. 34 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 3: Day by. 35 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 4: Day. When have you begun an interview like that? Yeah? 36 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 3: I will confess that. 37 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 2: Richard Y Grant was here about a few months ago, 38 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 2: and in the middle of it we started talking about 39 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 2: My Fair Lady and he played Henry Higgins, and so 40 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 2: he said to me, what's your favorite song for my 41 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 2: Fair Lady? I said, that is so easy because for me, 42 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 2: I've grown accustomed to her face, and so he sang it. 43 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 3: Do you know that I. 44 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 4: Did play that part? 45 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 3: Did you play Henry? 46 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 4: Once? 47 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 5: At the Hollywood Bowl there was a full production put 48 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 5: together for one evening, and because I had grown up 49 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 5: listening to the original cast. 50 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 4: Album as you clearly did. 51 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 1: I. 52 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 5: Performed it with ten days rehearsal. It was fully costumed, 53 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 5: with the entire Los Angeles Philharmonic up on stage with us, 54 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 5: and oh my god, Roger Daltrey played. 55 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 4: Doolittle and packed Lighthead played. 56 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 5: Pickering, all these Rosemary Harris played Missus Higgins. 57 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 4: Remember that was Melissa Era. 58 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think we performed it for about nineteen 59 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 5: thousand people at the Hollywood Bowl. And you know, the 60 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 5: the magnified, the amplified voices on stage, they sort of 61 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 5: hit like two seconds later way up at the back, 62 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 5: and so you would tell a joke and the laughter 63 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 5: would roll up the hill. It was the most amazing experience. Oh, 64 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 5: it was fantastic. I always wished that they would ask 65 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 5: me to do it again for a run somewhere because 66 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 5: it is the perfect music. 67 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: You know that for me, Well, you'll have all different ones, 68 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 2: but for me My Fair Lady and Guys and Dolls. 69 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 3: I love the music from Guys and Dolls. 70 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 2: But we're talking about it the other day with Greta 71 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 2: and No and actually with Richard was saying, could you 72 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 2: do My Fair Lady now? Because it is pretty misogynist, 73 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 2: it does have a and they were saying, yes, why 74 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 2: not have a play about a man who doesn't understand 75 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 2: and his own. 76 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 5: It was equally controversially back in those days. But Higgins 77 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 5: is a George avatar and very kind of challenging, dangerous wit. 78 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 5: I mean, it's kind of like playing role doll. You're 79 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 5: startled by his savage. Well, it's just it's a savage wit. 80 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 5: It's a willingness to be cruel. 81 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 3: I can't a woman be more like a man? 82 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,919 Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly. I mean you have to consider the source. 83 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 5: It's wonderful to play a part that's all in. That's 84 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 5: that's how I always felt about playing Dick Solomon on 85 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,720 Speaker 5: Third Rock from the Sun. Just nothing but impulse, completely unedited, 86 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 5: because he knew nothing about the proprieties of being a 87 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 5: human being. 88 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's very. 89 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, watching you in the theater and being in the 90 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 2: theater and having seen Giant? How does food enter your 91 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 2: work day when you're thinking about if you're doing a matinee, 92 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 2: do you start thinking about in the morning, are you 93 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 2: going to have a breakfast? 94 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 5: Or it's a catastrophe doing a play, especially a really 95 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 5: demanding play like Giant, it's thrown everything off. I never 96 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 5: know when to have a good meal because if you 97 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 5: wait too late, you've got too full of stomach. When 98 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 5: the show is over and you come home, you don't 99 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 5: want to eat too much then because you've got to sleep. 100 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 5: It's very confusing. I'm counting on Sundays. That's why I 101 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 5: keep gravitating to the River Cafe. 102 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 3: We're going to go and have lunch very soon. But 103 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 3: if what you eat so like tomorrow, you're in on 104 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 3: performance tomorrow night, do. 105 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 4: You think you'll got a horrendous day tomorrow? Don't? 106 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 3: Oh no, I'm sorry. 107 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 5: I have entered into a sort of ven Diagram period 108 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 5: of my schedule where I'm running Giant but doing prep 109 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 5: work for Harry Potter and tomorrow Tomorrow I have wardrobe fittings, 110 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 5: and Tuesday I have hair and makeup, and this is 111 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 5: Dumbledore we're talking about, and then I have to race 112 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 5: back into town to do the show both nights. Then 113 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 5: I have two on Wednesday, so I don't know when 114 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 5: I'm going to eat. 115 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 2: I better go have a good lunch. And when you're filming, 116 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 2: do you think about when you did you know movies? 117 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 5: Movies are a luxury because you know they feed you 118 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 5: well midday every day, and you're usually on. You're frequently 119 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,359 Speaker 5: on location where you're God, I did two months in 120 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 5: Rome on it. 121 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 2: I wanted to hear about that because I've heard from Stanley. Stanley, 122 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 2: you and Sally did a tour of Tuscany, did you 123 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 2: or not? 124 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 4: Well? 125 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 5: I went by myself around Tuscany, but following Rafe's itinerary. 126 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, he laid out where. 127 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 3: I should go. 128 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, and uh, I mean doing doing a film in 129 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 5: Rome with Stanley Tucci and Isabella Rossellini and Ray Fines. 130 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 2: It was just tell me what would you do that 131 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 2: would you film? And then go out to eat? 132 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 5: And yeah, we ate at night and trust Everey we 133 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 5: had were an amazing, funky hotel across the Tiber from 134 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 5: trust every eating and drinking at the end of a 135 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 5: long day of working. It was great, much much better 136 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 5: than doing theater. 137 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 3: Well maybe you. 138 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 2: Should think about that, you know, when you when you 139 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 2: choose what films is going to do. 140 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 5: One of the first big roles I played in movies 141 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 5: was obsession for Brian to Holm where we shot in 142 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 5: Florence and New Orleans. And I asked him, Brian, did 143 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 5: you did you pick the cities before you made up 144 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 5: the story, and he said, yes, Where do you want 145 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 5: to be on it. 146 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 2: Where do you want to be Yeah, exactly, Well you're 147 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 2: going to be in London, which is going to be great. 148 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 2: Sow When do you start doing the Harry Potter We 149 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 2: haven't right as. 150 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 5: Soon as this, but I don't expect to be working 151 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 5: as hard on that as I do on this. 152 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 3: What does it feel like at the end of it? 153 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 4: It's really exhausting. 154 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,479 Speaker 5: I mean, you're related by it, but it's completely exhausting. 155 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 3: Have you ever done a play we had to eat 156 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 3: on stage? 157 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 5: Oh? 158 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,839 Speaker 4: Yes, Uh? 159 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 5: Actually I made a great discovery when I played King 160 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 5: Lear in New York at the Public Theater. The scene 161 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 5: where he he sort of crashes his daughter's castle with 162 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 5: his entire troop of knights, the director wanted me to 163 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:02,199 Speaker 5: sit down and eat, eat hard after the hunt, and 164 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 5: the prop man came up with this ingenious device for 165 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 5: eating on stage. He made these chunks of watermelon covered 166 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 5: with food coloring. Looked exactly like a big slab of beef, 167 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 5: and I would just pop gigantic square inches of watermelon 168 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 5: into my mouth and they disappear instantly. So not only 169 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 5: can you can you eat and speak Shakespeare at the 170 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 5: same time, but you're also hydrating. 171 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:39,599 Speaker 4: And that's what we do in Giant. Don't tell anybody. 172 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 4: They serve us salad sUAS well. That's thinly sliced watermelon. 173 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 5: And I always I can always get everything down my 174 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:56,079 Speaker 5: gullet on que. There's about ten moments when I'm munching 175 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 5: and it's all gone straight down, just in time. 176 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 3: I think it was It wasn't Carrien Mulligan. 177 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 2: It was someone maybe it was that had to cook 178 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 2: and eat something made a pasta. 179 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 3: I think it was maybe for her Pin to play. 180 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 3: That was it was David Hare, David Hare. 181 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,319 Speaker 2: I think it was Skylight, the Skylight where they cook 182 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 2: a pasta on stage. Yeah, and she described having to 183 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 2: actually cook it and then then eat it. 184 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 4: It's always wonderful when that happens on the stage. 185 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, smell it you. 186 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 4: But I'm basically cheating up there on stage. 187 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 2: Okay, we can cut that from this and we can 188 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 2: tell them nobody's gonna like it. 189 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 4: Ahead and share it. 190 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 2: I just like to think about the early days your 191 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 2: Your father was born in the Dominican Republican, Is that right? 192 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 3: So what was that like? Did they? 193 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 5: Well, it's a it's a kind of curiosity about of 194 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 5: his history and mind. He was descended from two or 195 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 5: three generations of Scott's. My nice Lithgo is a Scottish 196 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 5: name who lived in the Dominican Republic. His father and 197 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 5: his grandfather were both vice consuls of and he was 198 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 5: born in Santa Domingo and grew up in Porta Plata, 199 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 5: but only grew up until he was four and then 200 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 5: he and then he went straight to Boston. And that's 201 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 5: my real So. 202 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 3: Your grandparents, yes, whom I never knew. 203 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 5: I knew my grandmother, but not my grandfather. He died 204 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 5: when my dad was four. So it's really just a 205 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 5: curiosity of my biography. 206 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 2: Did your mother cook food that maybe came from there 207 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 2: or did she bring any Caribean food or. 208 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 5: I would say the food in my household was very 209 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 5: much Boston seafood. That was my father's absolute favorite food 210 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 5: New England lobsters and clams and scollops. 211 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 4: And my mother, she was from Rochester. 212 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 5: I and my siblings had a crazy upbringing because my 213 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 5: father was a regional theater artistic director and we lived 214 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 5: in about eight different places, so he directed, he was 215 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 5: he created and ran Shakespeare festivals in Ohio. I mean, 216 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 5: another curiosity of my biography It's what has turned me 217 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 5: into this peculiar hybrid between an American and an Englishman. 218 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 5: And my mother just kept the house, kept the family 219 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 5: together as we moved from place to place, and just 220 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:42,959 Speaker 5: was a very reliable kind of Fanny farmer cook. Yeah, 221 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 5: I remember her cooking very well. I remember one of 222 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 5: our my real hometown up until I was about twelve 223 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 5: years old was Yellow Springs, Ohio. We lived in a 224 00:12:55,720 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 5: house on Dayton Street, and it was full of fruit 225 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:06,719 Speaker 5: trees and an entire line of rhubarb along the along one. 226 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 5: I don't know whether they inherited it. Certainly they inherited 227 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,559 Speaker 5: all the fruit trees, but were there was peach trees, 228 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 5: cherry trees, apple trees. And she used to make the 229 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 5: most incredible rhubarb pies. 230 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 3: What was it like? 231 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,959 Speaker 4: It was all rub none of this strawberry rhubarb. 232 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 5: Stuff, and just one of my favorite things growing up. 233 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 3: Would you go pick the rubarbi? 234 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 5: She picked the rubarb for her, and and it was 235 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 5: I just remember family meals. 236 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 3: Did you do all sit down at night? 237 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 4: Yeah? 238 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,079 Speaker 3: How many brothers and I had? 239 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 4: I have two sisters and a brother. 240 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 3: A lot of work I was cooking for four Yeah. 241 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 5: And they were they let's see about a fifteen year 242 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 5: span between the first and the last. 243 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 3: What about your dad was then? How much was he 244 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 3: he was? 245 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 4: Yeah, he was always home, but always in the theater. 246 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:07,319 Speaker 3: Yeah. 247 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 4: I just that's how I remember him. 248 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 5: And he had a crazy career that veered between the 249 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 5: theater profession and the teaching profession, because it was just 250 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 5: you know, if you're if you're in the theater, you 251 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 5: have a crazy life. Sometimes you're employed, sometimes you're not. 252 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 5: Sometimes you have to choose other work. Sometimes it's going great, 253 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 5: and sometimes it's a catastrophe. 254 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 2: He started this idea of doing because that's very different 255 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 2: from being an actor, to have a business or a 256 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 2: career going setting up a theater, doing Shakespeare, going from 257 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 2: town to town, finding the theater. 258 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 4: Yeah. 259 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 5: Well it came out most of his theaters were university connected. 260 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 5: He did a great Shakespeare festival that lasted eight years 261 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 5: at Antioch College. 262 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, and he taught there and I see that's it. Yeah, 263 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 4: And he. 264 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 3: Actually college because it's quite. 265 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 5: Very funky in the middle of Ohio. It's certainly the 266 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 5: most lefty radical place in Ohio and it hasn't changed out. 267 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 3: In the States. It always had of being very. 268 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 5: Liberally, tremendously exciting place, and that was our hometown. And 269 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 5: a lot of my friends were professor's children, and a. 270 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 4: Lot of them were on the blacklist. You know. 271 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 5: It was a greatness, was in the early nineteen fifties 272 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 5: mcarthy era, and it was a badge of honor to 273 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 5: have your father a blacklisted professor. 274 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 2: My dad was in that world as well. Yeah, I 275 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 2: love Do you know Howard Koch was Howard Koch as well? 276 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 2: The writers we wrote Casablanca, And we lived in a 277 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 2: small town upstate New York, Woodstock, and we were on 278 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 2: a street literally our next door neighbor. Actually, that's one 279 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 2: of the reasons I came to London is that Howard. 280 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 2: I wanted to take time off and Howard, because so 281 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 2: many writers at the time who are blacklisted came to England. 282 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 4: Carl Foreman, Carl. 283 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 3: Rice, maybe two. I think they were quite a lot. 284 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 4: Ring Lardner Jr. Was quite a gang. 285 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 3: A gang. 286 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 2: So did you know that being in the world of theater, 287 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 2: of your father setting up theaters, was this an influence of. 288 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 5: Well, I was much more interested in being an artist 289 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 5: when I was a kid, genuinely interested, and that was 290 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 5: everybody assumed that was what I would do. But you know, 291 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 5: we were very involved in the theater, Me and my siblings. 292 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 5: We all performed, performed in the plays, and watched rehearsals 293 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 5: day in and day out. Knew the whole Shakespearean cannon 294 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 5: because he produced every single one of Shakespeare's plays, including 295 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 5: Henry the Eighth and Timon of Athens. 296 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 3: He must have been a great guy. 297 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 4: He was a very genial, sweet, wonderful man. 298 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, but his parents supportive of him. 299 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 4: He was a black sheep and my mom was a 300 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 4: black sheep. 301 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 2: When you went from theater to theater, town to town, 302 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 2: you said you did, even though there were universities. Was 303 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 2: it having to adapt to a new vice. 304 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 5: It's kind of like being a service brat, except I 305 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 5: didn't go to a service brat school. I was the 306 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 5: new kid in public schools all over Ohio and Massachusetts 307 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 5: and graduated from Princeton High School in Princeton, New Jersey, 308 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 5: where my dad ran the MacArthur Theater. It was a 309 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 5: crazy pretty much, starting in about fourth grade. 310 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 4: I kept we just moved. 311 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:34,400 Speaker 3: And moved, moved, and did you keep painting? 312 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 4: I kept painting. 313 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 5: I mean, I was really serious, right, up until I 314 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 5: went off to college, at which point I was the 315 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 5: campus star. Like within the first week I was an 316 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 5: experienced actor. 317 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 2: Tell me about Harvard and going to university. First of all, 318 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 2: do you remember the food? Can we talk about food 319 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 2: in Harvard? 320 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 5: They were all the cooks in all the dorms, were 321 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 5: these wonderful Irish women who just slopped out the food. 322 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 2: Did you walk around Cambridge and discover what it was 323 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 2: like to have Greek food or other kinds. 324 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 5: Of When I most vividly remember about food at Harvard 325 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 5: was Elsie's, the sandwich shop in Harvard Square, and the 326 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 5: Fresher's Special and the. 327 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 4: Big fat roast beef sandwiches. 328 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 3: Do you remember that? 329 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 2: When I went to Bennington and so we had a 330 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 2: turn off and I got a job at the Harvard 331 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 2: Law School doing I don't know what I did. You know, 332 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 2: I took books down from the shelves and kind of 333 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 2: read a few reports. 334 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 3: But I sold pretzels. You remember that pretzels stand in 335 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:42,360 Speaker 3: Harvard Square? Yes, yeah, I worked there. 336 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 4: Maybe I sold you I bet you probably did. We're 337 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 4: almost contemporary. 338 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 2: Nobody knows that about my life. 339 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:53,120 Speaker 3: Pretzels, But I saw pretzels in Harvard Square. 340 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 2: Ye, well I was supposed to do. I like doing 341 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 2: that more than working in the Harvard Law School. 342 00:18:57,720 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, but I did get it. 343 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 5: But it was very is a great atmosphere, and Harvard 344 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 5: is very heroic these. 345 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,159 Speaker 3: Days, it is. Yeah, we could have a moment on 346 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 3: that DEI. 347 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 2: They'd be protecting our universities and standing up for Yeah. 348 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, were you active politically in those days? 349 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 4: You know? 350 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 5: I graduated in nineteen sixty seven and came off to 351 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 5: London to study at Lambda, which pretty much separated me 352 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 5: from all the political turmoil. I left the country just 353 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 5: when everything flew apart. 354 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 4: You know. 355 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 5: Here I was in London in nineteen sixty eight, which 356 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 5: until now was the most catastrophic here in America in 357 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:41,919 Speaker 5: recent American history. And ironically, at both moments here I 358 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 5: was in England, reading all the news from back home 359 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 5: and thinking, what is going on at the minute I leave? 360 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 3: Yeah? 361 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 2: You know. 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I came here in early sixty nine, 370 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 2: at the end of sixty eight sixty nine, and I 371 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 2: came with a you know, a group of friends, you know, 372 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 2: boyfriends and friends who just escaping the draft. 373 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 3: I always say that, you know, I'd. 374 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 2: Probably agree that Vietnam was a class war because I 375 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 2: you know, poor farmers, poor people from who couldn't didn't 376 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:50,679 Speaker 2: know how to get out of it. 377 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 3: You know, we're drafted. I don't know anybody. 378 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 2: I know somebody who went to Vietnam, for people from 379 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 2: Williams or Dartmouth, but I don't know anybody who died there, 380 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 2: and I hardly know anybody who went. 381 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a real third rail of American society from 382 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 5: that era. People were so burned by that board. Or 383 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 5: whether they participated or whether they resisted, it's just this 384 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 5: subject of deep confusion. And you're right. I was here 385 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 5: in London at exactly that time. So many expaths and resisters, 386 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 5: so many who were just confused, what do I do? 387 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 4: What do I do next? I'm not going to participate 388 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 4: in this. 389 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 2: The people going to Sweden, trying to get to Canada, 390 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 2: trying to go anywhere. 391 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 5: And I remember, well Al Gore was one of them. 392 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 5: Another one was Donald Graham, who who led Washington Post 393 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 5: for so many years. They went to Vietnam. 394 00:21:55,240 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, John Kerry, John Carrey. 395 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 4: Wonderful man. 396 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 5: And and we thought, what is what's gone wrong with 397 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 5: Donnie Graham? Because he he reoped for a second tour 398 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 5: of duty? What has happened to him? And then he 399 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,439 Speaker 5: came back and joined the Washington, d c. Police Force. 400 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:19,199 Speaker 5: We thought he would you know, basically he was what 401 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 5: he considered his duty as an American citizen. And we 402 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 5: all thought it was an aberration. I mean, that's how 403 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 5: crazy it was that period of time. 404 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 2: It was a crazy time. So then you came back 405 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 2: following your life you were with Lambda. Yeah, and was 406 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 2: that a discovery? 407 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 4: Oh? It was great? 408 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 3: It was what did you discover? 409 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 5: The first it was the first time I've been to England. 410 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 5: I'd been to France, but I'd never been to England, 411 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 5: even though I'd grown up in a total anglophile family, 412 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:53,640 Speaker 5: and I had studied English history and literature at Harvard, 413 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 5: and I always said, within the first two weeks in London, 414 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 5: I'd learned more about English history than I ever knew before. 415 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 5: And you suddenly I knew. Never even occurred to me 416 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 5: to look at a map and see where all these 417 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 5: Shakespearean characters came from. Suddenly there was Kent and Northumberland, 418 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 5: and Salisbury and Rochester. 419 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 4: All of these. 420 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 5: Gloucester a part that I'd played in king Lear. I 421 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 5: never bothered to look at where Gloucester was, you know. 422 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 5: So No, it was a wonderful time, and it was 423 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 5: a great time in English theater. 424 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, Peters was going on. 425 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 5: Peter Brook was doing his greatest work, Peter Hall, who 426 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 5: was the head of the RSC. Trevor Nunn took over 427 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,159 Speaker 5: from him at age twenty seven. 428 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 3: Did you meet Kenneth Tynan? 429 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 4: I never met. 430 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 5: Kenneth Tynan, but I met a lot of other remarkable people. 431 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 5: Met John Gielgood and his dress. 432 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 3: Later. 433 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 5: She was working a way out in the east in Stratford. 434 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 5: Of course, the gravitational center has shifted east, but back 435 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 5: then that was like working. 436 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 4: You have money, well, I was on a. 437 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 3: Full could you eat out? I keep going back to 438 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:06,360 Speaker 3: we ate a lot. 439 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 5: I was in my first marriage, a very youthful marriage, 440 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 5: and we ate a lot. 441 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 4: Of Indian food. 442 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 5: Yeah, I've never tasted better Indian food. 443 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:15,880 Speaker 3: Good. Do you still eat it? 444 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 4: Yes? 445 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Yeah. 446 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 2: It's interesting how the I always think, well, we know, 447 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 2: because of colonialism, how the British is. 448 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:25,439 Speaker 3: I hope I don't insult any of you. 449 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 2: But there is a palette of British food which is 450 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 2: quite sort of h what would be saying don't and 451 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 2: then to go for all cuisines. You know, in every 452 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 2: small town all over Britain there's Indian restaurants, you know, 453 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 2: and that I agree. 454 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,360 Speaker 5: But I also remember, you know, the cliche was that 455 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 5: England had absolutely awful food, but it. 456 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 4: Wasn't true at all. 457 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 5: There were so many wonderful, innovative restaurants. I think it 458 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 5: was a little legacy of rationing because England had had 459 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 5: to make do with only half the ingredients that we 460 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 5: cook with now. But I remember finding great restaurants The 461 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 5: Hungry Horse, Remember the Hungry Horse? 462 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:16,199 Speaker 3: I do was that in full? Something like that? Yeah? 463 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 2: And peoples and also if you ate in people's homes, 464 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,199 Speaker 2: their mothers cooked really good Sunday lunches and great meats 465 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 2: and great you know, so it was an exploring time 466 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 2: for you to be. 467 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 3: Did you travel to Europe? 468 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, quite a lot. 469 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 5: Oh we went to Salzburg and Vienna and Amsterdam and Italy. 470 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 5: Uh yeah, I mean you seize the day. If you've 471 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 5: grown up in America and you're living in London. Every 472 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 5: time I had a little five day break, I would 473 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 5: sprint to Europe, to Paris for the first time. 474 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:52,359 Speaker 4: It's great. 475 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 3: Do you remember Paris? The feeling of Paris? 476 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, like everything you ate was good. 477 00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 3: What did you remember what you ate? I read? 478 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 4: Oh God. 479 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 5: One of my great memories actually from before then, that 480 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 5: summer that I spent in traveling around with a traveling 481 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:15,160 Speaker 5: around France with a youth group. I remember a crape 482 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 5: stand in an artichoke field in Brittany and having this 483 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 5: fellow make crapes on a big circular black grill and 484 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 5: scrape it off when it was paper thin, and fold 485 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 5: it up and sprinkle it with sugar, and remembered thinking, 486 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 5: this is the most delicious thing I've ever eaten in 487 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 5: my life. That's what happens to you when you go 488 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 5: to other countries. 489 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, an open kitchen in the River Cafe means we 490 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,199 Speaker 2: as chefs are able to talk to our guests dining 491 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 2: in the restaurant. And now we're bringing that same ethos 492 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 2: to our podcast, a Question an Answer episode with me 493 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,119 Speaker 2: and our two executive chefs. Send a voice note with 494 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 2: your question to Questions at River Cafe dot co dot 495 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 2: uk and you might just be our next great guest 496 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 2: on Ruthie's Table four. The recipe that we thought you 497 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 2: could read would be the recipe that you just because 498 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:19,679 Speaker 2: you were in the pastry's kitchen. 499 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:21,120 Speaker 3: Tell me what you thought about that. 500 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 4: Oh, that was wonderful, very welcoming listening. Every every square foot. 501 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 5: Of this place is welcoming, and that goes for the 502 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 5: pastry cook kitchen too. 503 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 4: They were they were wonderful. Tell me their names again. 504 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,879 Speaker 3: And Alice, Yeah, just delightful. They were thrilled to have you. 505 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,439 Speaker 2: Because it's also that contact you have with somebody who yeah, 506 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 2: both you and Mary. 507 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 4: Yeah. 508 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 5: Mary came in there with me and she is my 509 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 5: my tutor. Yeah she is a professor, but in the 510 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 5: case of pastry cooking, she was my professor. 511 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 3: But how did that start? 512 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,439 Speaker 5: From the very just always she was always a great 513 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 5: great baker and by bit like Tom Sawyer and his 514 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 5: white picket fence. She taught me how to do some 515 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 5: of this stuff and then abandon it herself, so I 516 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 5: became the baker. 517 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 4: In the house. 518 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:11,400 Speaker 3: You find it relaxing to bake. 519 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 4: Not entirely, but it's there. 520 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,880 Speaker 5: You're feeling elated when something comes out of the oven, right, 521 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 5: and you look forward to that moment. Yeah, it's and 522 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 5: now it is sort of shorthand. Mary's from Montana. We 523 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 5: have a little cabin on a lake in Montana, and 524 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 5: there's a one single cherry tree in the woods, left 525 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 5: over from when there used to be a cherry orchard. 526 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 5: And one of our favorite things is to ride a 527 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 5: horse to the cherry tree, gather cherries at exactly the 528 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 5: right time in the summer, bring them back to the house, 529 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 5: wash them, pit them, and make a cherry pie and 530 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 5: eat the cherry pie with tea. 531 00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 4: I mean it's like a three hour long to cherry better. 532 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 3: Oh my god, the idea that you get around a 533 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 3: horse and. 534 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:05,959 Speaker 4: I become very good at the lattice crust. 535 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 3: I'd like to have that. Can I make one for 536 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 3: me one time? 537 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 4: Yes? 538 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 2: I might not be We have a church outside. I'll 539 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 2: show you after this, and we have a lot of 540 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 2: cherries on it. Yeah, I mean they're not quite there yet, 541 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 2: but there's nothing better than a good Yeah. 542 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 3: So would you like to read the recipe? 543 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 2: You can read it any way you want, Okay, River, 544 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 2: you that Whyeliff Sean did it and wrap some ta 545 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 2: face sang it. 546 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 3: Oh my god. But you can just read it out 547 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 3: if you like anyway you like. 548 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 5: Well, I will, I guess I'll read it in my 549 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 5: best uh an adequate English accent. 550 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 4: My roll doll, pretend I'm rolled. All. Yeah, there we 551 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 4: go with the same attitude. 552 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 3: Roll doll. Like food. We know about his Oh. 553 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, he was quite a he did cook cookbooks, yeah, with. 554 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 4: His wife Lizzie. Yeah, and of course a big wine. 555 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 3: You're sort of in a kitchen in the play. 556 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 5: It's a it's a house under renovation, but we sell 557 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 5: set up for a luncheon River Cafe. Pastry three hundred 558 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 5: and fifty grams that is twelve ounces plain flower, a 559 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 5: pinch of salt, one hundred and seventy five grams, which 560 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 5: is eight ounces unsalted cold butter cut into cubes one 561 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 5: hundred grams that is four ounces icing sugar. Three egg 562 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 5: yolks for the sweet pastry. Pulse the flower, salt and 563 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 5: butter and a food processor until the mixture resembles coarse breadcrumbs. 564 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 5: Add the sugar and then the egg yolks and pulse. 565 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 5: The mixture will immediately combine and leave the sides of 566 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 5: the bowl. Remove, wrap in cling film and chill for 567 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 5: at least an hour. Preheat the oven to one hundred 568 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 5: and eighty degrees centigrade that is three hundred and fifty 569 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 5: degrees fahrenheight gas four. Cause the great bass tree into 570 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 5: a thirty centimeter that is a twelve inch loose bottomed, 571 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 5: fluted flantin. Then press it evenly on the sides and base. 572 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 5: Bake blind for twenty minutes until very light, brown and cool. 573 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 5: How is that coach was not listening? 574 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 2: We like, there's something about a recipe which is very nice. 575 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 2: Isn't it nice to listen to? 576 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 4: I think, what a great idea to have dramatic reading. 577 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, we had period and we gave a performance in 578 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 2: our house and we would invite a hundred people and 579 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 2: then that money would go to eddy charity or foundation 580 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 2: that the actor wanted to give. And so we had 581 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 2: ray fines did a Beckett soliloquy, and Judy Dench did 582 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 2: a whole night and we had John Williams played the guitar, 583 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 2: and then Ian McKellen did his night and he ended 584 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 2: it and he sang songs and he told stories and 585 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 2: he read poetry and he ended up reading a recipe 586 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 2: from one I didn't know, and it was very compelling. 587 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 3: He read a recipe for a soup and. 588 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 4: It was. 589 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 5: In honor of his host, my co star, Elliott Levy, giant. 590 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 4: Of those. 591 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 3: He did, Well, we should do another one because you 592 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 3: know that space. 593 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 2: The acoustics are good, and yeah, we'll do We'll do 594 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 2: something when when you're done with the play. 595 00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, I know. 596 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 2: That's so excited. Though I don't like the idea you're 597 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 2: going to Hampstead. It's quite far. But I also thought 598 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 2: being you and knowing your political spectrum and how you 599 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 2: and I both give you a lot through the lens 600 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 2: of society, through the lens of poverty, through the lens 601 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 2: of struggle. And I think you know we are aware, 602 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 2: aren't we that right now in this world there are 603 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 2: so many people struggling and feeling that. 604 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 3: Do you feel, Oh. 605 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 5: Gosh, it's very hard not to be not to be 606 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 5: extremely gloomy these days. 607 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 4: But there is there's heroism. 608 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 5: I mean, there's that magnificent chef who created that, Yes. 609 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 3: Exactly what these people died in Gaza. 610 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 5: Yes, for every for every little hopeful sign, there's there's 611 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 5: another source of despair. These days, it's very, very hard, 612 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 5: and all you can do is cling to the belief 613 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 5: that this too will pass, it will and and fight 614 00:33:59,040 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 5: for it. 615 00:33:59,480 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 4: Yeah. 616 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 2: I think it's a combination of the fighting and the 617 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 2: optimism that we will fight and win. And then we 618 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 2: also think about food. As we think about food, as 619 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 2: I just said political, we think of it as an 620 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 2: indicator of someone's success that they can afford. 621 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 3: To buy food. 622 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,320 Speaker 2: We think of it how we feed our children, how 623 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,360 Speaker 2: the government feeds our people in hospital or in prison, 624 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:25,880 Speaker 2: and the responsibilities. 625 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 3: And we also think of food is comfort. 626 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,839 Speaker 2: So my very last question to you, John Lithke, who 627 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 2: I love Anadorea, is when. 628 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:37,319 Speaker 3: You need comfort, is there food that you might reach for? 629 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 4: Well? 630 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 5: I think the very best pasta is probably it. I 631 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 5: don't know, it's you know, Ruth, you're interviewing me, and 632 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 5: you are, in my opinion, the paragon of making people 633 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 5: feel taken care of you're the most welcome I mean person. 634 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 5: It's no coincidence that you've created this incredible institution because it's. 635 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 4: The same in your household. 636 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 5: You just feel every you put everyone at ease, make 637 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 5: them feel so welcome. 638 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 4: And food is a part of that process, isn't it. 639 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:22,720 Speaker 5: I believe there's a wonderful quote from MFK. Fisher, who's 640 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 5: a fiction writer but also a food writer, from about 641 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 5: thirty years ago, and she was asked, since you write fiction, 642 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,959 Speaker 5: and that's your great passion, why do you also write 643 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 5: about food? And she said, well, it's very simple, as 644 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 5: far as she's concerned, there are two things that human 645 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,839 Speaker 5: beings can't do without. One is food and one is love. 646 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:52,399 Speaker 5: And to her, they're very, very closely connected with each other. 647 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,840 Speaker 5: I always thought that was a beautiful definition, and you, sir, represent. 648 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 4: That to me. 649 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,400 Speaker 3: So do you still okay? 650 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:08,439 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table four 651 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:10,320 Speaker 1: in partnership with Montclair