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Speaker 1: dot Ai. This podcast is sponsored by Better Help Online Therapy.

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Speaker 1: I'm Michlene Maloof and I'm Nadiadesi, licensed therapists and hosts

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Speaker 1: of Getting Better Stories of Mental Health. Join us for

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Speaker 1: discussions with Megan Trainer, Chris Bosh, Rebel Wilson, and more,

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Speaker 1: from discussing motherhood to immigrating to general mental health. Our

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Speaker 1: guests are awe inspiring. We all struggle with the same things,

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Speaker 1: so let's talk about it and the stigmatize them. Find

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Speaker 1: our new podcast, Getting Better Stories of Mental Health on iHeart,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts and Spotify. At ADP, we work with more

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Speaker 1: than eight hundred sixty thousand companies worldwide. That gives us

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Speaker 1: a pretty good idea of how to help businesses grow stronger.

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Speaker 1: Whether it's through data insights that help you make informed

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Speaker 1: decisions about bill thing, a team that works better as

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Speaker 1: a team, or by keeping you ahead of thousands of

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Speaker 1: changing regulations so you can keep ahead of everything else,

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Speaker 1: like building that better team, grow stronger with a dp HR, talent,

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Speaker 1: time and payroll. Welcome to Money Making Conversations. I'm your

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Speaker 1: host with Sean McDonald. Each Money Making Conversation talk shows

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Speaker 1: about entrepreneurship and entertainment. I provide the consumer and business

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Speaker 1: owner access to celebrities, CEOs, entrepreneurs, and industry decision makers.

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Speaker 1: It is important to understand that everybody travels a different

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Speaker 1: path to success. That's because your brand is different. The

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Speaker 1: challenges you face in your life are different. So stop

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Speaker 1: reading other people's success stories and start writing your own. Now.

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Speaker 1: You can be motivated by their success because their stories

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Speaker 1: can offer direction and help you reach your goals through

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Speaker 1: your planning and your committed effort. The Money Making Conversation

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Speaker 1: interviews provide relatable information to all my listeners about career

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Speaker 1: and financial planning, entrepreneurship, motivation, leadership, overcoming the arts, and

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Speaker 1: how to live a balanced life. With that said, let's

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Speaker 1: get this interview rolling. My next guest, I'm so happy

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Speaker 1: to man when you talk about when you bring people

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Speaker 1: into your life or bring people on the show, you say, hey, man,

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Speaker 1: this individual played an important role. And while I'm able

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Speaker 1: to talk on this talk on this show and have

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Speaker 1: a concept call money Making Conversation, My next guest is

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Speaker 1: a well known executive who has been responsible for for

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Speaker 1: for radio stations, five of which he owned, encompassing eighteen

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Speaker 1: US markets. In addition to leading financial transaction valued at

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Speaker 1: over a half billion dollars in radio station and related areas.

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Speaker 1: His work has including business successes with radio news networks

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Speaker 1: like YouTube, Black Network, Raiders, Shared and Broadcasting Network, American

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Speaker 1: Urban Network, executive radio programs like uh Tom, Join the

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Speaker 1: Morning Show, The Womany Williams Experience, The Steve Harvey Morning Show,

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Speaker 1: formats like The Light, and a satellite channel of a

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Speaker 1: BT Uptown. He's an author, historian, speaker, and retired broadcasting.

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Speaker 1: His latest book is Welling Captains of Color, America's First Meritocracy,

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Speaker 1: which will be released on June fift and is available

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Speaker 1: for pre order now. Please welcome the Money Making Conversation

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Speaker 1: The King. I called him the King because he's the

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Speaker 1: only reason I ever went up to Martha Veneyors Skip Finley, Man,

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Speaker 1: I can't wait for you to come back. I know

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Speaker 1: you won't. I'm gonna come back. Skip. Let's say, you know,

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Speaker 1: there was two thousand five. Everybody two thousand five, you know,

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Speaker 1: Steve Harvey and I we was was attempting to UH

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Speaker 1: put together a deal led by Skip UH to become

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Speaker 1: a morning drive and possibly syndicate with Clear Channel. At

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Speaker 1: the time, we're gonna be a joint partnership in all this.

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Speaker 1: And so Steve and I we went up to Martha's

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Speaker 1: Veneon and it had to be the coldest day of

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Speaker 1: the year in the summer. It was in the summer.

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Speaker 1: Remember it was in the summer, and Martin, Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: it was. It was. It was, it was. It didn't

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Speaker 1: stop us from getting in business. And and that's that's important.

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Speaker 1: Way back then in two thousand five, when you know,

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Speaker 1: Steve and I sat down with you guys, and you

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Speaker 1: guys were looking at uh you know, the possibilities of

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Speaker 1: Union stations in South Carolina and stations in California. Of

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Speaker 1: course w b L last the flagship in New York.

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Speaker 1: What did you seeing uh me as a manager back

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Speaker 1: then and Steve Harvey as a talent back then. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I first one gets to the punch line

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Speaker 1: to my knowledge to this day, that is the only

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Speaker 1: major media deal that was entirely conducted by black people. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: we made all the decisions in that you know that

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Speaker 1: short part of that week when we were up here. Um,

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Speaker 1: but it was uh. I was vice chairman the company,

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Speaker 1: the President company, you know, Peppy Sutton and I and

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Speaker 1: Charles Warfield the President company. You know there. Our chairman

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Speaker 1: had the idea that there wasn't anything funny in black

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Speaker 1: radio and that might be a key to success in

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Speaker 1: Morning Drive. We certainly agree, you know, and got a

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Speaker 1: call of an interest from Rushawn. You know how we

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Speaker 1: like to talk to see Harvey. Well, we went crazy,

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Speaker 1: We fell out, of course realistic. We knew we couldn't

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Speaker 1: afford him, so it was up to me to figure

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Speaker 1: out a way we could pay him. We couldn't do

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Speaker 1: it right then I was head out on a vacation.

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Speaker 1: They agreed to come up to Martha's vineyard. And the

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Speaker 1: first funny story is my wife and I want to

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Speaker 1: pick them up, the whole group, and for the airport.

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Speaker 1: Ricky Anderson's attorney was with you, parents was with you.

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Speaker 1: We got to the airport and these good looking, overly

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Speaker 1: well dressed brother come back to the terminal with these

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Speaker 1: tailor three piece suits on the Martha's rade. Now I'm

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Speaker 1: totally embarrassed because I'm there in a T shirt a

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Speaker 1: pair of short My wife is cute anyway, so it

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Speaker 1: didn't matter what she had on. So she's driving a

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Speaker 1: little town with a little convertible Mercedes and I'm driving,

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Speaker 1: you know, my big F one pickup troop. Well, then

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Speaker 1: the bags come out and they had these eye shaped bags.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, you know what, what did he say? Well,

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Speaker 1: those are had bags? Y'all knock at dad. Happened in

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Speaker 1: all this and if you do it on bow away,

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Speaker 1: well we can from there. Um, you know, eight men

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Speaker 1: sat down on the room and decided. You know, we

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Speaker 1: generally liked and respected each other over the years. We've

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Speaker 1: heard because you know, since you know success of the program, Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, most comedians side they want to go and

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Speaker 1: do that too. What we knew Steve Harvey had already

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Speaker 1: been a professional morning drive announcer in the two next

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Speaker 1: largest markets in the country, Chicago and Los Angeles, for

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Speaker 1: eight years, had all the experience doing the announcing, and

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Speaker 1: just happened to be one of the funniest men on

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Speaker 1: the planet, right, And I think a lot of folks

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Speaker 1: don't crush you too, have a history and stand upright,

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Speaker 1: and we like to laugh. So being around a couple

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Speaker 1: of brothers like you, guys who might to tell jokes,

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Speaker 1: was just amazing, you know, and help and help cementa deal. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, it was great. I always remember that that

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Speaker 1: that number we put out in the pippy sudden he

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Speaker 1: fell out and I said, wait, wait, wait, hear who

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Speaker 1: we can do. And I said, said, Steve win, come

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Speaker 1: up with half the dog and with another property, we

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Speaker 1: can do this bonus thing. Well, I've got this idea

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Speaker 1: on how to get stations to pay rights fees to

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Speaker 1: do this instead of just giving us advertising time to

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Speaker 1: go out and sell, which was the first time the

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Speaker 1: model had ever been used. Absolutely absolutely, And I said,

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Speaker 1: I happen to know two guys at two radio networks

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Speaker 1: who would love to partner with us and distribute you know,

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Speaker 1: the steal. Once we put it off together and it

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Speaker 1: all started up there that and and by the way,

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Speaker 1: you know, broadcast on the show from New York, where

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Speaker 1: you're in the publishing center of the world, you're the

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Speaker 1: television center of the world. You're in the fashion center

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Speaker 1: of the world. Imagine Steve, what you can do just

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Speaker 1: being there. And you've got books, you've got movies, you've

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Speaker 1: got fashion. You need to open a comedy club. And

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Speaker 1: at that time, you guys are into health food. Absolutely

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Speaker 1: except for you're trying to convince me. We have lunch

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Speaker 1: at Michael that day was health food. Absolutely, absolutely absolutely,

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Speaker 1: because in the restaurant still talk about that. The man

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Speaker 1: came over said, well, here's the desserts we like to

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Speaker 1: have today. Rushawn says, remember all of them. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not the grandma, all these tables, desserts.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, how does he stay so and tight eating

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Speaker 1: like that? You know, I wanted people to understand that.

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Speaker 1: You know, when you see me, you supicially when you

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Speaker 1: see Steve, he's a national star. Now you know that.

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Speaker 1: That meeting, like you said, the African American man sitting

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Speaker 1: in the room, negotiating, you know, and figuring it out,

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Speaker 1: and and and then putting us on the station, a

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Speaker 1: flagship station, WBLS one of seven point five. That's still

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Speaker 1: little numbers because that station right there, Man, we were

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Speaker 1: there for two years because that was part of the deal.

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Speaker 1: We had to stay up there for two years and

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Speaker 1: established ourselves in the New York market before we moved

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Speaker 1: down to Atlanta, Georgia. And in doing so, it really

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Speaker 1: it really played out to our advantage because of the

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Speaker 1: fact that Wendy Williams was in the afternoon. So here's

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Speaker 1: the station that has Steve Harve in the morning, Wendy

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Speaker 1: Williams in the afternoon. Can you imagine what was walking

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Speaker 1: through those doors. It was just it was just an

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Speaker 1: amazing amount of star power, amazing amount of energy, and

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Speaker 1: amazing amount of competition because an access and and the

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Speaker 1: money was the money was beyond ridiculous. It was beyond

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Speaker 1: all of our wildest dreams. But you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: want people to think that was easy, because it was

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Speaker 1: hard to get to that point. Absolutely, it was hard

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Speaker 1: for the two of you to get to the pinnacle

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Speaker 1: of career already before we got to sit down and talk.

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Speaker 1: We feel the same Charlie, Peppi and I at that

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Speaker 1: one time in history, we had between the three of

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Speaker 1: us more management experience than any other radio group in

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Speaker 1: the entire country at the time. I think we're like

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Speaker 1: the number one or twenty second largest one. Now the

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Speaker 1: other part I think, you know important for folks, you know,

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Speaker 1: not to forget was it everybody showed up earlier or

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Speaker 1: on time and did what they could do well. You know,

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Speaker 1: nobody ever looked over there showed everybody was straight ahead.

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Speaker 1: You know, you guys with you are with the best

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Speaker 1: group of people I've ever worked with in my career,

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Speaker 1: and I'm talking forty eight years. We know something when

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Speaker 1: I look at uh one thing about it, you know,

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Speaker 1: because back then he loved the fish. You know. He's

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Speaker 1: always tells Steve to me what we're looking and fishing.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I'm gonna go fishing, I said, but

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Speaker 1: but he was. So I'm just talking toone because I'm

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Speaker 1: about to transition to the book. I'm just talking about

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Speaker 1: a guy who all which for two thousand and five.

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Speaker 1: Way back then, he was always talking, I'm going down

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Speaker 1: in the Bahamas, going down that fishing. You guys are

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Speaker 1: gonna come with me, gonna fishing. He show us the

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Speaker 1: pictures of the boat and then he shows the history

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Speaker 1: of all the other previous fishing trips, just to assure

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Speaker 1: us that this is what he did. That don't when

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Speaker 1: you go out there, you go catch some fish and

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Speaker 1: you're not gonna go out there with a novice. This

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Speaker 1: was skipped. He laid it out so so so. Fishing

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Speaker 1: and water it's always been part of his life. He

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Speaker 1: looks like a fisherman. If you see him, you go, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can believe him. He could be he could have

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Speaker 1: been that captain and Jawls and he could have been

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Speaker 1: that guy. He could have been he could have been

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Speaker 1: that guy in Jawls and so so when I when

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Speaker 1: I see this book, you know, you know it's about willing.

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Speaker 1: And we all know the important role at willing played

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Speaker 1: in in our industry. And you and you and you,

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Speaker 1: and you've ridden a comprehensive account over fifty sailors of

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Speaker 1: color who rose to captain Captain America's well ships. And

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Speaker 1: I talked to us about because I would tell you something.

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Speaker 1: Everybody I've read this book. The detail and the amount

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Speaker 1: of research that you've done on this book, Skip is

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Speaker 1: phenomenal as well as fascinating. Well well, well, thank you

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Speaker 1: all outsight. Louin wrapped that. But you know, being being blessed,

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Speaker 1: you know, genetically, and being able to have a summer

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Speaker 1: home and growing up on Marthins Vineyard during the Summer's right.

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Speaker 1: Then it happens to be one of the three whaling

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Speaker 1: centers of the whole wide world. Along the way when

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Speaker 1: I decided I wanted to be a writer. After broadcasting UM,

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Speaker 1: I was asked to write an article for Martha's Vineyard

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Speaker 1: magazine about William A. Martin, who was what they thought

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Speaker 1: was the black captain here in Martha's Vineyard. Well, I

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Speaker 1: started doing research. One thing led to another. One day

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Speaker 1: I said, how the hell did this guy get to

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Speaker 1: be a captain? This isn't like well because I do

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Speaker 1: I am a D H D S instead have a

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Speaker 1: little bit of O C day one thing to do

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Speaker 1: an other. Before I knew it, I bought and read

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Speaker 1: over a hundred books on whale, and we're pretty much

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Speaker 1: all the books are on whaling. Started taking notes and

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Speaker 1: the book came out of it UM and I was

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Speaker 1: astounded to find these guys. And it's that the actual

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Speaker 1: number is fifty two that I can confirm. There's another dozen.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if they were black or I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure if they were captain. Wasn't able to prove it

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Speaker 1: because it's so long ago. But half these men we're

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Speaker 1: whaling captains before the Civil War, you know. So this

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Speaker 1: is a one of those hidden figures stories. And as

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Speaker 1: I used that expression hidden figures, I probably should give

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Speaker 1: a shout out to Mrs Johnson. Catherine Johnson, I understand,

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Speaker 1: died today the hundred years a hundred one years old.

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Speaker 1: She was a lady in in the movie Hidden Figures

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Speaker 1: about NASA and the Christine is the only one who's

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Speaker 1: still alive, right, huh played a role correct in the movie, right,

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Speaker 1: I think so. But but but I remember seeing that

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Speaker 1: movie kind of driving away from it, and I was like, damn,

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Speaker 1: that happened while we were live. We were how do

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Speaker 1: we not know that story? All right? And this is

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Speaker 1: the same story you know you're talking about. You know,

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Speaker 1: these guys altogether brought back over seventy million dollars worth

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Speaker 1: of whale products, you know, and will it wasn't about food.

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Speaker 1: It was about oil. This area than snack of the

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Speaker 1: Wood's rhyme was pretty much the Middle East, Nantucket, New

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Speaker 1: befter months vineon. That was the oil. This is the

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Speaker 1: oil that lit our homes, that heated our homes, eventually

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Speaker 1: lit our streets, and lubricated the American railroads and began

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Speaker 1: the Industrial Revolution. And I've never heard a mention it,

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Speaker 1: you know if these guys before So I was astounded.

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Speaker 1: And that's the sense of what the book is about,

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Speaker 1: you know. And it was it was such a difficult activity.

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Speaker 1: About a hundred seventy five thousand people did it over

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Speaker 1: the course of its life span two hundred forty some

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Speaker 1: years ninety those people only went once because it was

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Speaker 1: so difficult. Black guys didn't have any place else to go.

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Speaker 1: Could I want to come back in the next break

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Speaker 1: and get more detailed, because I want to know I

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Speaker 1: would just tell everybody about this movie that this will

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Speaker 1: tell everybody about this book, the detail, the research. Um, wow,

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Speaker 1: that's all I have to say. Skip, family, be right

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Speaker 1: back on money Making Conversations. We'll be right back with

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Speaker 1: dot ai. That's O T T E R dot Ai. Hi,

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Speaker 1: this is Rushan McDonald, the host of Money Making Conversation.

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Speaker 1: You say to yourself, who calls Rushan shell, please work

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Speaker 1: on the money Making Conversations. Comedian Dion Cole A lot

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Speaker 1: of people sail. To realize when you're look in the

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Speaker 1: mirror every morning, you passed the most unique thing in

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Speaker 1: the world. And I talked about this in my stand up.

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Speaker 1: You are unique in every way. You gotta look at

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Speaker 1: what's unique and you and then capitalize on. The money

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Speaker 1: Making Conversations continues online at www dot money Making Conversations

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Speaker 1: dot com. Hi, this is Rushan McDonald. You're listening to

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Speaker 1: Money Making Conversations. I'm interviewing Skip fentilely his new book,

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Speaker 1: Willing Captains of Color, America's first merit occracy. Um, Skip

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Speaker 1: tell us about we're talking about the research. What exactly

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Speaker 1: as a Willie master, Let's talk about that? What exactly

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Speaker 1: I want to I want to start breaking down the

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Speaker 1: first the word master and captain are used interchangeably. Okay, master,

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Speaker 1: really though it's a better word because that man in

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Speaker 1: chargeable whale ship was omnipotive. Okay. You know when you're

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Speaker 1: on a trip that average three to four years, and

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Speaker 1: they were you couldn't have problems aboard ship, right said

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Speaker 1: where we're gonna go, when we're gonna go? Talk to you?

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Speaker 1: You're telling me that. Okay. Now, when a willing ship

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Speaker 1: went out, it didn't just go out and come right back. No, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: They went out and sailed the world. There's a there's

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Speaker 1: a beautiful, beautiful decoraate map in the new Bedford Whaling Museum,

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Speaker 1: and it has an uncountable number of dots on it

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Speaker 1: all over the world, red DUTs and blue dots, you know,

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Speaker 1: standing for the type of whale, a regular whale, right,

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Speaker 1: whales they call it, or sperm whale. You can't count them. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you know these were the men's These whaling captains in

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Speaker 1: chasing whales, literally mapped our oceans, has identified all of

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Speaker 1: the islands and all of the oceans around the world.

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Speaker 1: That's how long these trips took. The longest trip was

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Speaker 1: a little over eleven years. Okay. You know as the

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Speaker 1: captains changed several times, the crew same show times. But

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Speaker 1: the boat from place it left it came back to

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Speaker 1: eleven years. Okay, okay, you know all this, guy Roshan

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Speaker 1: read the book. Now I'm hearing you talk very comfortably

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Speaker 1: about this, but listeners are hearing this for the first time.

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Speaker 1: So a boat left the dock, let's say New Effort

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Speaker 1: of New Bedford. Okay, masters did not come back for

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Speaker 1: almost eleven years. Yes, okay, well, okay, how did they

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Speaker 1: get paid? When did they drop off the ar all?

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Speaker 1: What was going on? All right? The boat would leave

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Speaker 1: most of the time. They'd leave New Bedford up here

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Speaker 1: in New England. They head over towards Cape Verdie, which

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Speaker 1: is off the coast of Africa. Along the way they

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Speaker 1: would hunt for whales. Once they found a whale, they

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Speaker 1: would release. They would drop three or four smaller boats

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Speaker 1: the men would roll out. Six men would row over

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Speaker 1: to that whale. Okay, they got close enough. Holo, holo, holo.

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Speaker 1: You got off a big boat, got in a little

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Speaker 1: bit of boat and rowed to the big whale. That's right.

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Speaker 1: And then the big boat wasn't that big. The big

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Speaker 1: boat was liket long. Most of them that's not very big.

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Speaker 1: That's about six cars lined up. Let Okay, so they

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Speaker 1: get off the little bitty boat, get in these little

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Speaker 1: row boats going up to your little road boats, and

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Speaker 1: they're chase of animals that are a hundred feet you know.

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Speaker 1: Or here here, here's here's a here's a football reference

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Speaker 1: for you. Okay. The smallest whale a dwarf sperm whales

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Speaker 1: about three forty pounds, about the size of a defensive tackle,

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Speaker 1: right right, right, right right, three hundred thousand pound blue

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Speaker 1: whale is about the size of the entire NFL. So

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Speaker 1: these men would row a boat over to one of

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Speaker 1: these huge animals, you know, eighty two a hundred pounds,

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Speaker 1: that's probably about the size they were rolling to it

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Speaker 1: and stab it and keep sticking it and stabbing it

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Speaker 1: until it died. Meanwhile, let's pulling them all over. So

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Speaker 1: they might wind up. By time the whale rolls over

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Speaker 1: and died, there's four miles away from the big boat.

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Speaker 1: Then they have to tow that whale back to the boat,

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Speaker 1: cut up into little tiny pieces, put in the fireplaces,

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Speaker 1: melted down the oil on board. They had the wood

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Speaker 1: in the stage that put the pile holo holo, skip skip.

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Speaker 1: Could everybody in the studio going what what what? Because

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Speaker 1: see see you've done all this research that you've done,

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Speaker 1: all this research. I'm trying to slow you down, older brother. See,

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Speaker 1: we gotta we gotta take all this in that Okay whale.

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Speaker 1: Because I went well watching Okay, and the world came

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Speaker 1: close to my boat, I told everybody, turn around, I'm out.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know it was gonna be like this. Look here, everybody,

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Speaker 1: you know, because I was on there with some other

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Speaker 1: tourist people. They were mad at me. I said, hey, hey, hey,

399
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Speaker 1: y'all augustand but they didn't tell me that was this

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Speaker 1: big on TV. They looked small, this little boat. I'm

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Speaker 1: an extra. After I had all kind of ideas in

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Speaker 1: my head, I saw how close that whale came to

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Speaker 1: my boat. Now these people out there going out there

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Speaker 1: making a whale that made me nervous. There was a

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Speaker 1: happy whale. That was a happy whale I was running

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Speaker 1: away from. They were making a whale that big angry

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Speaker 1: and you ain't suck him. That's right, And chapters are

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Speaker 1: the world you saw. It was the right whale, so

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Speaker 1: it didn't have teeth like a sperm whale. That was

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Speaker 1: that was a highly valuable one. Their oil was the

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Speaker 1: best because it didn't make smoke when it burned. Oh okay,

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00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 1: so they made candles out of it first. That's how

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Speaker 1: it all started. Okay, okay, okay. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: you know, thankfully um we're watching is now a bigger

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Speaker 1: business than wal killing ever was right, right, right, But

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Speaker 1: let's get back to the whale killing, because that's what

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Speaker 1: that book is all about. These these African American men.

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Speaker 1: But let me, I could never correct this men of

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Speaker 1: color because you told in the book, you said, this

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00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,639
Speaker 1: is not about African American man. Because yeah, that was

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Speaker 1: one thing that struck me immediatelyast It's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, a slave is not an American, or West

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Speaker 1: Indian is not American. Kate Bradian is not American. But

424
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 1: they're all black. Okay, you can't call them are black

425
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 1: because a lot of them were Native Americans, you know,

426
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,439
Speaker 1: who were mixed you know what our people, you know,

427
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 1: and may as well be called black because what they

428
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 1: called you know, um, you know, one drop makes you

429
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 1: pure right. But you know, the basic one of the

430
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: basis of slavery and in their own slaves. You know

431
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 1: that that's in the book with as the subject now.

432
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:06,439
Speaker 1: But that's part of it. That's part of why you

433
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 1: wrote this because of the fact that here are a

434
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 1: man of color who were leading non colored man on

435
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 1: the boat and they could flog, loosingly flog a white

436
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 1: man on the whale ship who they couldn't look in

437
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 1: the eye in the streets of South Carolina, Okay, and

438
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 1: and and on and on. But the point is, let

439
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:35,880
Speaker 1: me you know, it wasn't so difficult killing the whale captain, whale,

440
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 1: cutting the whale up. But life on the whale ship

441
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 1: was awful. It was horrid. Your space was roughly the

442
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 1: size of the back seat of an suv. For three

443
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 1: or four years, people ask people ask me, you know, what,

444
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 1: how did black man become the captain? You know, for

445
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,400
Speaker 1: the answers when the crew looked around and you're twelve

446
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,479
Speaker 1: hundred miles off shore, and the captain just dived, fell sicker,

447
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 1: became incapacitated. You don't care who it is. I get home.

448
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 1: And we had the experience from all those trips we

449
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 1: had taken. We learned how to do it right. But

450
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: the beauty of also your storytelling is that you know

451
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 1: this is about being rewarded. That's why your the title

452
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,959
Speaker 1: of your book comes from being rewarded for your talent,

453
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 1: being rewarded for your skill, and not being held back

454
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,719
Speaker 1: based on the color of your skin. That's where the

455
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 1: title comes from. Correct, These men lived, Martin Luther King

456
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 1: set your dream right right right, Because I was reading

457
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 1: in your book you says that the well oil was

458
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: peaked at two dollars and fifty five cents per gallon. Yeah,

459
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: back then, and there's there's probably thirties, and there's about

460
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 1: thirty five gallons per barrel, and a good and a

461
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: good trip you're coming back with barrels, so it adds

462
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: up fairly quickly. So basically that was just liquid gold

463
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 1: back then, just liquid that you're willing willing as a

464
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 1: as a business enterprise was almost identically the model of

465
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: venture capital today, or what we call hedge funds and

466
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: private equity funds. That was what. That was how whaling

467
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: went when the captain and the crew was incentivized, you know,

468
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 1: based upon their performance, when you had a group of

469
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: people all invested into the venture. So a fifteen thousand

470
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 1: nine whaling trips, each one was a separate business enterprise,

471
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 1: and nobody cared who the captain was if he didn't

472
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 1: bring the whale ship home with a full hall, as

473
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 1: they used to say. And that's really really important now

474
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: in this book. It was one captain in particular that

475
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 1: you are inspired you to write this book. You mentioned

476
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 1: his name, William Martin. When you started writing about him,

477
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: didn't you discovered everything else? Correct? Yes? Yeah, the the

478
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 1: Manti magazine had done a special issue one time about

479
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: the wilship Charles W. Morgan's the Last Fiving Whales ship

480
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:05,239
Speaker 1: was completely restored. They took it from Mystic, Connecticut and

481
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 1: brought it to New Bebry, brought up to Martin's vineyard, Boston,

482
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 1: a couple of other places, and when it came here

483
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: to Marzavin and we wanted to the magazine you know,

484
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,439
Speaker 1: you know, really devote some attention to it. Since you know,

485
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,360
Speaker 1: seven or so of its captors were from Martha's Vineyard.

486
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: One of them did not happen to be Captain Martin.

487
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: But that's why they asked me to write this piece

488
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 1: about him, you know, because you know it's important to

489
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,919
Speaker 1: black well, you know, when they're doing I found, as

490
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: it turns out, there were five black captains our Martha's Vineyard,

491
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,199
Speaker 1: gay three that sailed from here, you know, which was

492
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 1: which was astounding because no one knew this. I will

493
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: venture to say that thirty five to forty of these

494
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: fifty two people, most people in the whaling industry and

495
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: researchers have not heard their names or would not have

496
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 1: associated them with being black, which is which is a founding.

497
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: And that's that's you know that that's kind of excited.

498
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 1: But you know if I got a little bit of

499
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 1: that kind of nerd historian in me too. Well, the

500
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 1: thing about you mentioned that about Martin in the book

501
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: he was talking about you know, very rarely do they

502
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: mention his color in the book at all. That's true

503
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 1: of most captains. In the logs, the captain writes the lock,

504
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: so he didn't have to put that information in there.

505
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: It's when the when the crew gets on board the ship.

506
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,719
Speaker 1: You know, they had a man, the customs officer, and

507
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: he would jot down the name, the height, the you know,

508
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: how the people looked, the race, and things like that,

509
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,120
Speaker 1: you know, on a piece of paper and it would

510
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: be attendant with the log with the owners. They know

511
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 1: who was on the boat, and they could compare it

512
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: with you know, when they came back. But if it

513
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: wasn't for what that was called the um um siemens

514
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: protection papers, I would not have been able to find

515
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: any of this. Now today you can't even keep that

516
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: information about the people, which is you know, and and

517
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: they started to seem as protection papers dating back to

518
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: the Revolutionary War when the British, you know what, impress

519
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: our people and we didn't really have a sailing fleet

520
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: until the War of eighteen twelve, when they continue to

521
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: impress our people and the ship there seems protection papers

522
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: function like a passport. This is who you are and

523
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: where you're from. And the story is is a astounding

524
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: And what I tried to do was it was to

525
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: write it, you know, you know, in a way that

526
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: it would be easy to read, easy to comprehend without

527
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: you know, all the facts and you and hard and

528
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: so bad. I highlighted how hard it was, which is

529
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: the reason we went and other people didn't. But the

530
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: you know, the young sixteen year old, you know, blue eye,

531
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: blonde haired kids from the town of Agatown, you know,

532
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: thinking I'm going to go out and make my fortune

533
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: on this whale boat. You know, by time he had

534
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: gone two booties off shore, about sixteen miles. He spent

535
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: the last week throwing up, I want to go home.

536
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: You know I we was talking about earlier. I want

537
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 1: want you because I was so astounded by you talking

538
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 1: about how wills are captives. Walk us through that step again,

539
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: because I want to make sure my audience. Here is

540
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: the whole process, without me interrupting. They spot a whale

541
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: right well, here, here's the here's the entire sequence. You

542
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: you hear, you know, it's it's dead quiet boats sailing,

543
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: you know, in the bridge, somebody's and the man says,

544
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 1: vow blows, and everybody jumps up and the adrenaline starts pumping.

545
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: They go to those three whale boats. They lower those

546
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: boats into the water, six guys in each boat. They

547
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: roll as fast as they can towards where the guy's

548
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: pointing to see that well, they wait until they see

549
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: the spout. They get closer and closer and closer. Everybody's quiet.

550
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: One guy, the harpooner, you know, gets up in front

551
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: of the boat and he throws out harpoon into the whale.

552
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: The record, by the way, which I have in the book,

553
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: is about forty other words, every other whale what you

554
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 1: were closer to it in a thirty ft boat. So

555
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: when your friend says I got a boat, his boat,

556
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: probably thirty ft are bigger. That's what these six guys

557
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: are using to row after these after these whales. They

558
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: stab a stavasa with sperm whale, you know, all of

559
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: a sudden, when it spouts red, they know the fish

560
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: is gonna die. Then it rolls over, which is called

561
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: the flurry. They tie ropes to it, and they row

562
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: that boat and tow that big heavy thing back. So

563
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: if there were times if you're four miles away from

564
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: the main boat, okay, you may be wrong the most

565
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: of the night, not missing a beat. You get back

566
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: up to the boat. They tie this thing alongside. Then

567
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 1: they begin the process of butchering it. But you also

568
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: have to worry about sharks too. Correct. The sharks are

569
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: are eating it while they're towing it, they're eating it

570
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: while it's being butchered. The smells are awful. People said

571
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: to me, you know, well, you know what, what's the

572
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: worst part about besides things like what are some of

573
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: the worst things about? I said, well, there was two

574
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: stories that I that I read about whaling um. One

575
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: was he as a man's in his bunk in the

576
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: fossil and he's not that concerned about being completely completely

577
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: covered with roaches because they're eating the bed bugs. Another

578
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: was they washed their clothes in urine. They have a

579
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: communal power, you know, you know, fresh water goes bad

580
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: on the boat, so they drank other things. But how

581
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: bad did your clothes smell? That urine was a substitute

582
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: to clean your clothes for three to four years. This

583
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: is your experience. But if that's your experience, you know,

584
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 1: versus being on a on a plantation someplace, I don't know, Yes, sir, yes, sir, yes, sir,

585
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: I don't know those skip this. Uh. I would thank

586
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: you for calling my show man. You are as just

587
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 1: as engaging and entertaining as as I've known you all

588
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: those years. Again. The book is out. You can buy

589
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: via pred online, Amazon dot com. A pre sell it

590
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: right now. It comes out officially with June eighteenth, at

591
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: least the official and please by now because it counts

592
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: towards your first week sales and I'm trying to get

593
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: towards it at least one of those best seller lists. Cool, well,

594
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: this is what I want to do. I won't give

595
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: me a banner. I'm gonna put it on all my

596
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 1: social media because I'm telling you I'm a fan of you.

597
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: You know that I'm a fan of this book, a

598
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: great book, skip a book that he's gonna be a documentary,

599
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: it's gonna be a movie, it's gonna be many things.

600
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: And I want to get in line before a lot

601
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: of people get in lines already. I'm already working on

602
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: the on the fictional treatment of a slave who becomes

603
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: a wailing captain. In fact, I'll tell you his name

604
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: is Jubul Jew, my friend. We will talk soon. Thank you,

605
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: But get those banners to me, okay, so I can

606
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: get you that best selling I posted this weekend. I

607
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:02,479
Speaker 1: appreciate your brother, Thank you man back bye bye. In

608
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: this season of giving, Coals has gifts for all your

609
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,719
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610
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611
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612
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Speaker 1: and Shame Moisture. And in the spirit of giving, Coals

613
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Speaker 1: Cares is donating eight million dollars to local nonprofits nationwide.

614
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 1: Give with all your heart this season with great gifts

615
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Speaker 1: from Coals or coals dot com. Still living in manually

616
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Speaker 1: taking notes, there is a better way to start the

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622
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623
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624
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625
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