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Speaker 1: On this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.

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Speaker 2: No matter where we are, the minute that we start

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Speaker 2: doing things because of other people's expectations, there's an important

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Speaker 2: part of ourselves that we lose.

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Speaker 1: Today's episode is sure to provide you with motivation, inspiration,

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Speaker 1: or a fresh perspective. If you have any AHA moments

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Speaker 1: or appreciate anything from this episode, please leave us a

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Speaker 1: review to let us know we're on the right track. Also,

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Speaker 1: we release episodes every Friday, so be sure to subscribe

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Speaker 1: on iTunes and visit cultivatingheirspace dot com to access our

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Speaker 1: exclusive after show and other bonus content from the Patreon tab.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Cultivating her Space, a podcast dedicated to uplifting

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Speaker 3: women like you.

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Speaker 4: We're your hosts.

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Speaker 3: Doctor Dominique Bussard, a college professor and psychologist.

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Speaker 4: And Terry Lomax, a techie and motivational speaker. In a

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Speaker 4: world where black women are often misrepresented and misunderstood, please

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Speaker 4: join us as we initiate authentic conversations on everything from

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Speaker 4: five roids to fake friends, and create a safe space

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Speaker 4: where black women can just be.

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Speaker 3: Hey, lady's doctor dom here from the Cultivating her Space podcast.

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Speaker 3: Are you currently a resident of the state of California

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Speaker 3: in contemplating starting your therapy journey. Well, if so, please

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Speaker 3: reach out to me at doctor Dominique Brusard dot com.

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Speaker 3: That's d R D O M I N I q

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Speaker 3: U E B R O U S s ar D

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Speaker 3: dot com to schedule a free fifteen minute consultation. I

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Speaker 3: look forward to hearing from you.

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Speaker 4: All right, lady, Today we have two their special guests, okay,

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Speaker 4: and we have an important topic that can't be talked

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Speaker 4: about enough. We're going to jump into the discussion shortly,

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Speaker 4: but first let me give you some highlights about our guests.

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Speaker 4: Esther Ikoro is a comedic writer, producer, and host from

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Speaker 4: the South Side of Chicago. Her work focuses primarily on podcasts,

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Speaker 4: web series and independent films. Her goal is to promote empathy, curiosity,

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Speaker 4: and critical thinking through stories. Esther is also the creator

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Speaker 4: of See You Outside YouTube channel, highlighting the amazing creatures

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Speaker 4: and phenomena of Earth. And then we have Darren Calhoun,

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Speaker 4: a justice advocate, worship leader, and photographer based out of Chicago.

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Speaker 4: He works to bridge connections between people of different perspectives

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Speaker 4: through story and relationship. Currently, Darren leads worship at Urban

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Speaker 4: Village Church and serves in multiple capacities within organizations like

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Speaker 4: Christians for Social Action, the Reformation Project, and q Christian Fellowship.

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Speaker 4: Darren and Esther welcome to cultivating her space. Thank you

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Speaker 4: for having us. You're so welcome. We have lots to

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Speaker 4: talk about.

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Speaker 3: Yes we do, Yes we do, all right, So we're

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Speaker 3: going to jump into this quote of the day. And

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Speaker 3: this quote will sound very familiar to you all because

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Speaker 3: this was on your social media. These are your words,

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Speaker 3: and I feel like it's fitting for this conversation. Our

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Speaker 3: quote of the day. The Saints ain't ready for this,

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Speaker 3: but we're still going to talk about it. And I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna say that one more time for the people in

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Speaker 3: the back to make sure you heard it and ground

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Speaker 3: yourself in this quote. The Saints ain't ready for this,

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Speaker 3: but we're still going to talk about it.

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Speaker 5: All right. That is our tagline.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so tell us more about the the motivation or

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Speaker 3: the intention behind this this tagline.

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Speaker 5: Oh, it's funny.

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Speaker 4: I don't think we ever talk we talk about how

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Speaker 4: we talk about the tagline.

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Speaker 5: Because I see it different every time. See. I wasn't

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Speaker 5: even gonna throw you under the bus yet, but.

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Speaker 6: But the you know, The idea is there's a lot

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Speaker 6: of there's lots of parts to our podcast that lean

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Speaker 6: on some of the vernacular traditions of black church culture,

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Speaker 6: and one of those things is referring to the congregants

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Speaker 6: or the people of the community as the Saints.

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Speaker 5: And in some ways we're borrowing that, right.

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Speaker 6: It's just like, you know, the Saints ain't ready for this,

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Speaker 6: because we are indeed the Saints.

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Speaker 5: We're part of the body of Christ in various ways.

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Speaker 6: But when we think about like the Saints collectively, a

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Speaker 6: lot of times we imagine, you know, big Mama serving

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Speaker 6: on the usher board, or we imagine Pop Big Pop,

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Speaker 6: who's one of the one of the deacons and doing

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Speaker 6: an old doctor Watts or something like that. And when

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Speaker 6: it comes to bringing those two with the conversation of

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Speaker 6: queerness in the church, Baby, they ain't ready for this.

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Speaker 4: They will really talk about it anyway, period, all day.

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Speaker 4: Love that overview. Oh this is gonna be so good. Okay,

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Speaker 4: So let's start with your origin story, y'all. How did

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Speaker 4: you to meet and become Second Sunday? This is all

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Speaker 4: I ask to go for it. How do we men

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Speaker 4: become Second Sunday? So all of us kind of had

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Speaker 4: similar ideas at the same time. So not on the

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Speaker 4: show today is our executive producer, Anna Deshaun Rainey. Anna

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Speaker 4: is the creator of a platform called The Cube, which

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Speaker 4: is a podcasting platform that features a podcast by bipocking

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Speaker 4: qt Pot creators. So I had the good fortune of

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Speaker 4: having a great childhood pastor that I grew up with

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Speaker 4: that's actually the first person that I ever came out to,

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Speaker 4: and she is very affirming. It actually turns out, unbeknownst

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Speaker 4: to me, she was the first out lesbian minister in

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Speaker 4: the United Methodist Church. So years and years later, I

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Speaker 4: was missing being part of a church community, but I

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Speaker 4: was also out and not hating myself. So I was

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Speaker 4: trying to find a community where I could just explore

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Speaker 4: God and re work on my relationship with God without

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Speaker 4: feeling that itch that you feel in certain church spaces.

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Speaker 4: And so I texted the first person that I could

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Speaker 4: think of, which is the the only religious leader that

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Speaker 4: has ever made me feel safe in that regard, which

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Speaker 4: is doctor Pamela Leitzi, and I was like, Hey, I'm

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Speaker 4: thinking about doing this thing because a lot of my

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Speaker 4: friends and people in my circle were like, yeah, we

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Speaker 4: miss church too. And we don't really have a place

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Speaker 4: to just like talk about that that's not homophobic. And

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Speaker 4: so I was like, would it.

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Speaker 2: Be weird if we had like a brunch where we

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Speaker 2: just kind of like had church and like just talked

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Speaker 2: about the stuff. And she was like, yeah, and I'm

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Speaker 2: going to invite some people as well. One of the

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Speaker 2: people she invited was Anna. She was like, you guys

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Speaker 2: should talk because you guys kind of have similar ideas.

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Speaker 2: And so a little bit later that was like during COVID.

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Speaker 2: A little bit later, Anna, as she was working on

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Speaker 2: the Cube, she said, you know, one of the in

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Speaker 2: house podcasts she was thinking about creating for the Cube

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Speaker 2: was a religionous spirituality podcast from the Queer perspective. And

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Speaker 2: Anna and I at the time we had started just

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Speaker 2: doing like random video work and stuff together, and she

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Speaker 2: was like, yeah, I really want to do this podcast.

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh my gosh, Like I want to

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Speaker 2: do that podcast as well, but I'm.

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Speaker 5: Clearly not going to do it by myself.

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Speaker 2: So she was like, I have a host, and I

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Speaker 2: was like, I would love to be the other host.

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Speaker 2: And also we could just use the name that I

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Speaker 2: came up with, Second Sunday. So that's how those things merged.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, Anna is really like the backbone and the

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Speaker 2: driving force, like she's the person that keeps Dared and

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Speaker 2: I in line and everything like that. But yeah, I

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Speaker 2: think we all had this converging need at the same time.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people around us were talking about the

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Speaker 2: same thing, and at cerain point, it was like, all right,

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Speaker 2: are we going to do this or what's going to happen?

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Speaker 2: And that is where I met the wonderful Darren who

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Speaker 2: is now my bff through podcasting.

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Speaker 5: Jan I love that so much.

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Speaker 4: And also the cover art for your podcast is amazing.

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Speaker 4: I didn't say that.

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Speaker 5: As well, that's so nice.

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Speaker 4: That looks so good. And the woman in the front

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Speaker 4: sheet is like, it's like a rainbow type of dress. Right,

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Speaker 4: I love the I was like, oh, I see the vision.

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Speaker 5: I love it.

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Speaker 6: Go ahead, now you know I'm a be transparent. This

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Speaker 6: is this is an exclusive. The origin of that is

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Speaker 6: that one of the companies that we work with to

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Speaker 6: do the podcast offered some art for us to use,

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Speaker 6: and the art that was offered at best would be

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Speaker 6: described as anti black, like it was not cute, it

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Speaker 6: was not giving, it was not it was it was

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Speaker 6: somebody had a deadline and they got it done.

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Speaker 5: Right, no seasoning always know it was it was negative.

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Speaker 6: It took away season and like we got a little

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Speaker 6: bit great color just looking at it over season. So

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Speaker 6: it is what it is, right, And it was like

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Speaker 6: twenty four hours to the deadline for us to go

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Speaker 6: live with the marketing campaign and all this other stuff, and.

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Speaker 5: So I said, what I said was.

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Speaker 6: I have a background of doing graphic design and photography, right,

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Speaker 6: I was like, I will make anything so we don't

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Speaker 6: have to go with this and you know, again transparency.

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Speaker 6: It looked like what they sent us came out of

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Speaker 6: an AI generation and I was.

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Speaker 2: Like, I know enough how to make an AI look cute.

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Speaker 2: We could type this in better than this. This is

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Speaker 2: gonna be cute.

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Speaker 6: And so I spent like the day like back and

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Speaker 6: forth doing generations, doing general ideas out of out of

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Speaker 6: what I could know come up with from via AI,

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Speaker 6: and they were giving feedback and eventually we got a

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Speaker 6: base for it that I then had to go in

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Speaker 6: make some corrections because faces in hands still sometimes it's

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Speaker 6: a struggle.

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Speaker 5: So you know, it's one of those Hello, So it

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Speaker 5: was one of those.

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Speaker 6: It was one of those hybrids of you know, yes, Ai,

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Speaker 6: there are lots of concerns about it and it's use

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Speaker 6: and so forth, And it's one of those things where

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Speaker 6: I think that, as with any tool in automation, that

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Speaker 6: we do have to have a certain sense of how

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Speaker 6: do we use this tool for our good?

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Speaker 5: And this.

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Speaker 6: Was what meant was what was meant for evil gets

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Speaker 6: turned around and worked out for our good.

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Speaker 5: So so yeah, it was, it was.

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Speaker 6: It was some work, but it definitely wasn't just type

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Speaker 6: it in and you're done, like the like what they

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Speaker 6: sent us. So yeah, but thank you, thank you. I

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Speaker 6: really appreciate it. Lots of people have been really responsive

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Speaker 6: to it because it does feel like it feels like us, right,

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Speaker 6: it feels like it's church but it's not church, and

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Speaker 6: it's black and it's queer but it's not white folks

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Speaker 6: on rainbows in the parade, Like it's really us in

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Speaker 6: a lot of ways.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Hey lady, it's Terry here, dom and I want

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Speaker 4: to take a moment to thank you for choosing to

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Speaker 4: listen to our podcast. We love you for real, and

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Speaker 4: we want to give you a chance to learn more

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Speaker 4: about what's important to us. So tell us what you

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Speaker 4: think about this.

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Speaker 7: Imagine a world where you have a chance to get

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Speaker 7: featured on the Cultivating her Space podcast and share your business,

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Speaker 7: brand or perspective with millions around the globe. Imagine joining

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Speaker 7: our monthly virtual video check ins where you can connect

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Speaker 7: with like minded black women like you and share your

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Speaker 7: ideas and episode suggestions with Terry and I. Now, I

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Speaker 7: want you to imagine a world where you're in the

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Speaker 7: exclusive Cultivating her Space sanctuary Slack channel, and throughout your

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Speaker 7: day and week, you are conversing with us about what's

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Speaker 7: happening in your life and sharing funny gifts and or

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Speaker 7: personal wins. How does that sound?

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Speaker 4: Hopefully this is up your alley, lady, because we are

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Speaker 4: taking things to the next level this year, and we're

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Speaker 4: doubling down on investing in our community.

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Speaker 5: That means you.

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Speaker 4: We want to meet you, connect with you, and create

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Speaker 4: communities of genuine women who love on black women and

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Speaker 4: push our culture and movement forward. We launch this podcast

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Speaker 4: in twenty nineteen, and to date we have not missed

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Speaker 4: a week. We've been great stewards of our platform, all

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Speaker 4: while working full time and navigating our own ups and downs.

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Speaker 4: We release fresh new content every single Friday. Life clock work,

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Speaker 4: and we have hundreds of valuable episodes and workshops that

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Speaker 4: can really help you up level your life. So, if

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Speaker 4: you love our mission or you've gotten value from us,

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Speaker 4: we invite you to give back and help us push

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Speaker 4: this community effort forward. Visit herspacepodcast dot com and click Patreon.

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Speaker 4: You can learn more about our goals and exclusive offerings

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Speaker 4: on Patreon, and we highly highly encourage you to join

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Speaker 4: the Sister Frontier so that you can get someone on

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Speaker 4: one time with us. We also have an option for

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Speaker 4: you to donate on a one time basis if that

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Speaker 4: meets your needs. Again herspace podcast dot com and you

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Speaker 4: can click that link that says Patreon. All right, lady,

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Speaker 4: we'll hop right back into the conversation.

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Speaker 3: I thank you for sharing sharing that story and keeping

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Speaker 3: it real with our audience around what happens behind the

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Speaker 3: scenes and the work that goes into truly honoring your vision. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and so when you all think about what you all

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Speaker 3: are creating with Second Sunday, what is the major vision

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Speaker 3: that you all have.

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Speaker 5: Daring you want to take this one?

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Speaker 6: I think I think so much about the stories that

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Speaker 6: exist in media as they exist, right, like the whether

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Speaker 6: whether it's coming out stories, whether it's black trauma, porn,

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Speaker 6: whether it is just a lot of different things that

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Speaker 6: exist about church and church abuse and hurt. They tend

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Speaker 6: to represent parts of my own life in very separate ways.

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Speaker 6: I can get a black gay story, but it's not

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Speaker 6: typically you don't have much church in it. Or I

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Speaker 6: can get a church story about abuse, and I've been

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Speaker 6: in documentaries about church abuse and spiritual abuse and conversion

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Speaker 6: therapy and all that other stuff, but it's still not

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Speaker 6: reflective of my whole experience. And then church stuff, there's

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Speaker 6: just an abundance of and you know, half the time,

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Speaker 6: I don't even don't even care that much unless it's

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Speaker 6: about changing and reforming the church. And so when this

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Speaker 6: opportunity to to curate to document to these stories of

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Speaker 6: black queer people and their experiences with church, I think

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Speaker 6: that was it. Just it really rose up in me

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Speaker 6: as an awesome opportunity for us to add to the

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Speaker 6: public narrative, for us to continue to create the thing

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Speaker 6: that we've always wanted to see but maybe wasn't available

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Speaker 6: to us, or maybe it was hard to find. And

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Speaker 6: so and again we talk about how things grow and

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Speaker 6: come along. At first, we thought this was going to

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Speaker 6: be a podcast that was very topical, that was very

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Speaker 6: let's dig deep into what the Bible says, and let's

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Speaker 6: really look at what women in leadership are doing in

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Speaker 6: the church. Valid important topics. But we all know what

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Speaker 6: we really love and some juice and some tea, what

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Speaker 6: we really love is a story. And that again connects

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Speaker 6: back to who we are, connects back to the places

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Speaker 6: that we come from in Africa, where storytelling are predates.

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Speaker 6: All these written and kind of modern historical accounts and

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Speaker 6: often how are more impactful. And so as somebody who

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Speaker 6: personally loves the power of storytelling, as somebody who loves

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Speaker 6: working with two amazing black women, as the folks who

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Speaker 6: are really doing such amazing work behind the scenes, and

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Speaker 6: I love it. Our whole team is black, y'all. But

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Speaker 6: with you know, with the opportunity for all these wonderful

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Speaker 6: folks to bring their talents together to create something that

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Speaker 6: really puts out there in our own way, in our

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Speaker 6: own voice, what our stories and our experiences are. I

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Speaker 6: think it speaks to all that, right, we have women

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Speaker 6: of trans experience, we have church leaders, we have folks

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Speaker 6: who've left the Christian American Black American tradition and explored

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Speaker 6: into other expressions of faith and belief. But it's ours,

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Speaker 6: Like we really get to say, this is ours, from

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Speaker 6: top to bottom, from front to back, this is ours,

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Speaker 6: this is us, and we're telling it ourselves, and it's

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Speaker 6: the way that works for us.

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Speaker 5: That is so necessary. Did you have something Esther, No, Darren.

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Speaker 2: Darren pretty much covered it. It's just about holding space. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: holding space and really just being authentic to the things

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Speaker 2: that we wanted to see and not compromising one thing

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Speaker 2: for the other as we often have to do in

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Speaker 2: other spaces.

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Speaker 5: I love that so much.

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Speaker 4: Never reminds me of kind of what we've done with

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Speaker 4: our podcast, Like we saw a void, we saw a

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Speaker 4: need in the world, and we're like, instead of complaining

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Speaker 4: about it, let's go create it exactly how we wanted

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Speaker 4: to be right and you all will get to experience

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Speaker 4: some of that, the multifacets of you know, the multifaceted

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Speaker 4: experience that we provide. But I want to talk about

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Speaker 4: church hurt. So I have experienced church her although the

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Speaker 4: term in this way like is new for me. You know,

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Speaker 4: my family often says I was born on the fool pits,

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Speaker 4: like my grandfather was a bishop, grandmama pastor. Like we

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Speaker 4: were in church, Sundays, Wednesdays, Bible study, vacation, Bible school,

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Speaker 4: all that stuff. Right, So when we go when we

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Speaker 4: talk about church hurt, we learned that it's the phenomenon

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Speaker 4: of experiencing pain, trauma, sadness, and emotional scarring that occurs

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Speaker 4: in a church setting. So when you think about church

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Speaker 4: or how can people begin to process and heal and

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Speaker 4: like what does that process look like from your experience

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Speaker 4: or from the experiences that you may have heard of

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Speaker 4: or from folks that needs the podcast?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Esther, and do you have some have some thoughts

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Speaker 6: on this, because you know, I got a lot to say.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to give my because Darren does work

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Speaker 2: on this in this area in a more i would

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Speaker 2: say professional realm, you know, like he's working at activism

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Speaker 2: and things like that. So I'm going to speak from

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Speaker 2: like the lay perspective. It really starts with being able

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Speaker 2: to even name what the hurt is. You know, so

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Speaker 2: many times our experiences in church and the things that

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Speaker 2: wound us in church are just normalized or they're swept

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Speaker 2: under the rug, they're not acknowledged. Things like that so

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Speaker 2: really it starts with being able to say, like, this

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Speaker 2: is what happened to me, and this is how it

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Speaker 2: impacted me, and having people having a space for that.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes that space, most times that space is not in

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Speaker 2: the actual church, right, So we end up talking to

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Speaker 2: our friends, we end up talking to our therapist, talking

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Speaker 2: to whoever else is able to hold that space with us.

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Speaker 2: And some people just have to hold that space for themselves.

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Speaker 2: So just acknowledge something happened, it was okay, and I

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Speaker 2: am wounded by it in some way, and beyond that,

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Speaker 2: it feels like, just through the conversations we've had in

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Speaker 2: making this show, people deal with it differently.

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Speaker 5: There always seems to be a period of anger. You know.

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Speaker 2: It's almost like the hero's journey, where it's like the

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Speaker 2: hero leaves home and you know, and then eventually something

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Speaker 2: happens to resolve the journey. But there's always this period

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Speaker 2: of after we get out of the hurt and the

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Speaker 2: self loathing, and maybe even while we're still in it,

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Speaker 2: there's a period of anger, maybe a bit of resentment

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Speaker 2: of really just kind of being like I did not

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Speaker 2: deserve that and that, you know, and there's this questioning

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Speaker 2: and oftentimes you know sometimes, you know, surprisingly not a lot,

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Speaker 2: because I'm surprised by how many people's faith stayed steadfast

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Speaker 2: even as they were dealing with church hurt. That was

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Speaker 2: something that was very surprising to me as we spoke

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Speaker 2: to some people, especially members of the trans community. Is

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Speaker 2: just like people who were just like now, I never

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Speaker 2: questioned God, I was just hurt by my family. So

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Speaker 2: I've always thought that was very interesting, inspiring, and it

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Speaker 2: really just shows how close people are to their faith

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Speaker 2: and spirituality and how important it is to them, and

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Speaker 2: that separation is really important. But yeah, so there's just

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Speaker 2: acceptance and being able to say what happened. There's the anger,

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Speaker 2: and then what I really hope for everyone is is

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Speaker 2: oftentimes people hopefully come to a place of acceptance and

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Speaker 2: peace about it. Because the idea, in an ideal world,

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Speaker 2: we would give vindication. In an ideal world, there'd be

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Speaker 2: some sort of justice or even maybe like an acceptance

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Speaker 2: from the place that rejected you. But that's not realistic, right,

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Speaker 2: So there's a type of peace. Angelica Ross, who we

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Speaker 2: interviewed one of my favorite interviews that we've done, spoke

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Speaker 2: about her journey with Buddhism and how through that she

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Speaker 2: has learned to accept that other people are on their

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Speaker 2: own journeys as well, and not using that as a

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Speaker 2: way to say, Okay, therefore you get to hurt me,

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Speaker 2: but using it almost as an avenue to let go

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Speaker 2: of the intersection of other people's journeys with her own.

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Speaker 2: So it's been a way of kind of detaching herself

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Speaker 2: in at a little bit of a way while finding

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Speaker 2: peace and also being able to maybe in some ways

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Speaker 2: hold space for those people. And in Angelica Ross's example,

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Speaker 2: her mother actually ended up coming around and like being

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Speaker 2: on Oprah and talking about what her journey was like

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Speaker 2: as the mother of a trans child, and that whole

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Speaker 2: arc couldn't have happened if they had just kept clashing,

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Speaker 2: and you know, if she hadn't been able to just

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Speaker 2: go on her own separate journey. But yeah, other people's

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Speaker 2: journeys hurt us sometimes. I mean, we have to learn

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Speaker 2: how to hold them at a distance that doesn't also

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Speaker 2: wound ourselves. But yeah, how about you, Darren.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, there's not a whole lot that I

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Speaker 6: would add to it other than the say, there's a

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Speaker 6: certain kind of catharsis in realizing that what you experienced

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Speaker 6: you aren't the only one, or that you aren't the

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Speaker 6: only one who's been hurt, or that the things that

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Speaker 6: happened to you are even valid. You know, a lot

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Speaker 6: of times churches teach you to think, oh, if something's

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Speaker 6: not working out, if something's not good, then it must

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Speaker 6: be you. You're lack of faith, it must be you're in

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Speaker 6: reading the scriptures wrong or something like that, and it's not.

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Speaker 6: You know, when you get a chance to talk to

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Speaker 6: other people. I've been publicly sharing my story for probably

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Speaker 6: almost twenty years now, and I really used to think

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Speaker 6: I was just the most special one. Not in a

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Speaker 6: big hit kind of way, but like I thought, the

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Speaker 6: things that were said to me, the things that were

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Speaker 6: done to me in church in the name of Jesus,

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Speaker 6: that these things like, oh God, most people just would

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Speaker 6: not have experienced something like this. And then you find

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Speaker 6: out twenty other people in your congregation have gone through

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Speaker 6: the same kinds of things, sometimes with the same language,

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Speaker 6: the same phrases.

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Speaker 5: This, you know, we'll use that familial language.

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Speaker 6: Oh daughter, son, you know, I'm just doing this because

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Speaker 6: I'm concerned about you, and all these things that really

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Speaker 6: groom us for the kind of abuse, for the kind

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Speaker 6: of manipulation that so many have survived. And then because

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Speaker 6: church culture in America is so it is part of

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Speaker 6: the culture, it is part of what it means to

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Speaker 6: be black oftentimes, so to step away from or to

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Speaker 6: resist or challenge things about the culture feels like challenging

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Speaker 6: your identity, and it feels like challenging your family, and

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Speaker 6: it feels like challenging all these things that you hold dear.

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Speaker 6: And so we hush up about it because we don't

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Speaker 6: want to rock the boat too much. We don't want

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Speaker 6: to want to ostracize too many parts of our world.

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Speaker 6: And then maybe we find a little safe pocket of

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Speaker 6: friends who are all burned and done with the church

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Speaker 6: or something like that, or maybe we try to now

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Speaker 6: the church when we're like, well, I'm just not going

437
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,399
Speaker 6: to tell anybody about myself or who I am or

438
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 6: my experience. But yeah, I think, I think in many

439
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 6: ways it is. It's a common experience, it's a shared experience,

440
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 6: and for many people, beginning to heal in that or

441
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,879
Speaker 6: beginning to work through that is something that that's going

442
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 6: to be your own journey. You know, it's going to

443
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 6: be your own thing. And it's okay, it's valid it's true.

444
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 6: It's real, and I don't think that God is somewhere like, oh,

445
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 6: she didn't do it the right way.

446
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,880
Speaker 5: You know, church has been messing up a long time.

447
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 5: You want you're good.

448
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 3: Facts, facts, Church has been messing up a long time.

449
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 3: And so two words kept coming up as each of

450
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 3: you were responding to the question. One of those words

451
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:44,199
Speaker 3: was faith and the other word was journey. And so

452
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 3: when we think about people who have experienced church hurt,

453
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 3: particularly people in the queer community, and I think about

454
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 3: the many stories that I've heard of how when someone

455
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 3: does us speak of how the church then responds, and

456
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:15,120
Speaker 3: oftentimes it can lead to someone losing their faith. How

457
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 3: would you recommend someone go about regaining their faith after

458
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 3: they've experienced church her.

459
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 5: You know, that's a.

460
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 2: That's a hard one because everybody needs different things, you know.

461
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 2: I would say that our podcast is about finding keeping

462
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 2: in sometimes losing faith. And for me, in my personal journey,

463
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 2: I've never questioned God, but I've also had experiences that

464
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 2: have allowed me to separate my relationship with God from

465
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 2: the institution of church. And everybody doesn't have that same experience,

466
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 2: and so it can be confusing. It, especially with the

467
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 2: language and the way that the abuse and the hurt happens.

468
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 2: It can be extremely confusing. Sometimes you grow up just

469
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 2: kind of forgetting that your pastor is not God at all,

470
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 2: and neither are your parents, and everybody is actually figuring

471
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 2: it out. You know, no one's phone line is connecting

472
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 2: more strongly, you know, when I say Jesus on the

473
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 2: main line, like you can also tell him what you want.

474
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 2: But there's that is not a perspective that a lot

475
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 2: of people even get to consider, just because it is

476
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 2: so all encompassing in our lives and in our culture

477
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:39,199
Speaker 2: and everything, you know, So I would say that I

478
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 2: think with everything that we do, I'll just use an

479
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 2: example from a recent podcast episode. We recently interviewed trans

480
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 2: Man who actually went through the process of like Judaism

481
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 2: and to convert to Judaism. We start the episode with

482
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 2: him talking about how in high school he was referred

483
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 2: to as the King of the lesbians basically because he

484
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 2: was so dykey, like, so gay, such a stud Those

485
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 2: expectations made him feel like he was in a box,

486
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 2: and so for like the last year of high school,

487
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 2: he went total one eighty dress heels, nails done from

488
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 2: like just like totally embracing like the femme girl aesthetic

489
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 2: at the time, and it just reminded me that no

490
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 2: matter where we are, the minute that we start doing

491
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 2: things because of other people's expectations, there's an important part

492
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 2: of ourselves that we lose. And so even if you're

493
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:44,199
Speaker 2: in a community that feels like it's like who you

494
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 2: are and affirming certain partsy I mean, that's why we

495
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 2: start a second Sunday, because a lot of the queer

496
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 2: communities aren't necessarily embracing of like Christianity, right, So there

497
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 2: is a part of us that has to understand who

498
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 2: we are authentically inside so that we can get what

499
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 2: we need. And we do talk about authenticity other podcast

500
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 2: episodes and how embracing our own individual authenticity is how

501
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 2: we get closer to God, because what's true for you

502
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 2: and real for you is not necessarily true and real

503
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 2: to another person, and only you can really say that

504
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 2: for yourself. So I think when it comes to you know,

505
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 2: not losing faith, I think if a person is identifying

506
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 2: with Christianity and that's the walk that they feel drawn

507
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 2: to the most, but they feel like they're losing it

508
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 2: because of the heart they've experienced I would say really

509
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 2: focusing on that personal part of the personal relationship and

510
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 2: seeking out community. I think it's really eye opening when

511
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 2: you realize that you are not the only gay Christian

512
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 2: person in the world, and they're actually like bishops and

513
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 2: pastors and scholars and theologians and activists and people who

514
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 2: are are Christian and it's a safe space to talk

515
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 2: and explore and discuss things that have absolutely nothing to

516
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 2: do with sexuality, because you know, there's a lot more

517
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 2: that we need to worry about in self improvement and

518
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 2: introspection beyond that, you know what I'm saying. So yeah,

519
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 2: I would say seeking out community and really kind of

520
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 2: like separating away from people who are causing that her

521
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 2: and confusion. If Christianity is is your is your flavor?

522
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 8: Yeah?

523
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 5: And you know, high key I'm gonna use a triggering

524
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 5: phrase here.

525
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 6: The Bible says, uh oh if you version, oh, King James,

526
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 6: if you look at the stories of people of faith

527
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 6: who've done great things, pretty much all of them had

528
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 6: some point where there was going to be a loss

529
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 6: of faith or a challenge to their faith, and they

530
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 6: they we wouldn't recognize them by today's standards as being

531
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 6: faithful And so for me and the people that I

532
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 6: that I come across, if you haven't gotten to the

533
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 6: point of really questioning everything that is your relationship with God,

534
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 6: the Church, the people of the Church, then you probably

535
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 6: you've probably still got to get somewhere. Baby, you still

536
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 6: gotta you gotta prayer little bit more so so to

537
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 6: get to that place of questioning and doubting and even leaving.

538
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 5: I feel like that's where the that's where the rubber

539
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 5: heat hits the road.

540
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 6: That's where it's not just the faith and religion that

541
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 6: was handed to you, but it's the thing that you

542
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 6: really have tried by fire again churchy phrase, but where

543
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 6: you've really gone through something to say, is this something

544
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 6: that matters?

545
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 5: Is this something that that really matters to me? Or not?

546
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 6: And I think that for many people who get to

547
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 6: that question or people who have decided maybe it doesn't.

548
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 6: That's really when some of the most powerful parts of

549
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 6: the journey begin. Doesn't mean everybody has to go through it.

550
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 6: But how key, my favorite my favorite people.

551
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 4: Have Wow, so y'all just preaching, That's that's what I'm

552
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 4: y'all can drop the mic after those words. That was

553
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 4: powerful And on that note, I think this will be

554
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 4: a really good time to shift up the energy a bit.

555
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 4: And so because we recognize and appreciate and celebrate the

556
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 4: multi faceted woman, and we believe that it's okay to

557
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 4: be bougie, classy and ratchet. You can still be elegant

558
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 4: and dance strip club music.

559
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 2: Okay, all day of God, he said, there's let's not

560
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 2: forget Yeah, Shadow, we want to invite you two to

561
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 2: the oh you Blatchett segments that that's boogie, classy, ratchet.

562
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 5: Do you take on the challenge? Oh? Absolutely, I came

563
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 5: for this. Okay, I'm waiting for Estra. I'm here, I'm

564
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 5: with you here already in her mind.

565
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,239
Speaker 4: Okay, that's what was going.

566
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 5: It was like, okay, I'm in there and was ready.

567
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 4: It was in a prayer circle right now. So come on,

568
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 4: come on, let's hop let's hop on in. So, now

569
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 4: that you've agreed, we're going to tell you what to expect.

570
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 4: So we have three questions for you. We have three

571
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 4: sentence completions, and we have three photos pulled up with

572
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 4: each of you that we found on social media, social media,

573
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 4: and so we're gonna have you choose a number that's

574
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 4: really We're gonna have you choose a number out of

575
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 4: one and three, and we'll reveil that photo on screen,

576
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 4: and we want you to describe the photo for folks

577
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 4: that are only listening, and then give us some context

578
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 4: about the photo that we would not know just by

579
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 4: looking at it. So, because we have two of you,

580
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 4: we're gonna kind of go back and forth here with

581
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 4: the questions, but something we may have to ask you

582
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 4: both because they're kind of they're super fun, So we're

583
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 4: going to ease in the first question here is what's

584
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 4: the best piece of wisdom of advice you've ever received?

585
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 4: And maybe you all can do like a one sentence

586
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 4: each so we can get something for both of you.

587
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 2: Hm, Darren, you go first, trust yourself.

588
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 5: Mhm hm. You thought you was gonna get some more

589
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 5: time out of me, didn't you? Yeah? I did.

590
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 2: I did think I was gonna get more time. Ooh,

591
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 2: there have been so many good ones. You don't have

592
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 2: to do all of them. Just do the first one,

593
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 2: all right, you know, interestingly enough, making a decision is

594
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 2: better than trying to make the right decision.

595
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 5: Bamn, love that, period love that. Okay, So.

596
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 3: I think I know how at least how Darren's gonna

597
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 3: respond to this, but we're gonna. I'm gonna put the

598
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 3: question out there anyway so that both of you can answer.

599
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 3: If given the opportunity, are you gonna.

600
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 5: Twork or two steps? I'm gonna tork. It's back there.

601
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 5: It's back there. I'm saying sorry, I forget about it sometimes,

602
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 5: but I'm gonna.

603
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,719
Speaker 3: You can't see it on camera, but it's there.

604
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 5: And I would say the same.

605
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 4: I very much was at one of the Pride functions

606
00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 4: yesterday on the microphone, exhorting and encouraging the people to

607
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 4: get let them hands be on them knees, let their

608
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 4: hands be upon thy knees. Don't shake it for Drake,

609
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 4: but you can shake it for me. Okay, come on,

610
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,360
Speaker 4: come on, okay. And I was in my in my

611
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 4: full thought gear. Let's go, yes, okay. I mean that's

612
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 4: a great segue to the next question, our final question

613
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 4: in this segment, which is what's the sexiest item you own?

614
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:29,439
Speaker 5: I'm over here looking at.

615
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 4: I got I got a bag of things. You have

616
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 4: some answers, you have some answers, Go ahead, I got it.

617
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 5: I don't know if you know certain equipment.

618
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 2: Hey, okay, equipment too big esh, My goodness, Darren.

619
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 5: I mean it comes in the back.

620
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,399
Speaker 3: You know, the people's imagination.

621
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 5: It's a harness. You said you're rolling strapped.

622
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 4: What ain't notting wrong with it? Then you got you

623
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 4: got to encourage the people when it's time to mount up.

624
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 4: Listen on wings and Eagles. This is so funny because

625
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 4: normally is the one who's out of pocket.

626
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 5: I am out of pocket. But my girls with the earshot.

627
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 2: So she's gonna be like, what podcast is this for

628
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 2: a second Sunday.

629
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 5: She's not gonna saying I said, well, won't want to

630
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:34,280
Speaker 5: get you in trouble.

631
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 2: So yeah, of those I have many, go ahead.

632
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 5: Praise the Lord, and as do I.

633
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 6: But that being said, I'm in my I am very

634
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,839
Speaker 6: much in my Hoochie Daddy season two point zero. And

635
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,760
Speaker 6: so I just bought this like little grab bag of stuff.

636
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 6: And the thing I'm looking forward to the most of

637
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 6: wearing that I'm looking at right now is it's a

638
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 6: like full body like cats type deal, but it's got

639
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 6: like leopard print, but the leopard is velvet, and the

640
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 6: rest of it is it's like a sheer kind of material.

641
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 6: And I tried it on yesterday, was on FaceTime with

642
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 6: my best fiend, and I was like, oh, y'all, ain't

643
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 6: gonna be able to tell me a damn thing.

644
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 5: Oh yes, this is this.

645
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 4: It sounds like giving, yes, giving all the things, and

646
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 4: the zipper goes all the way.

647
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 5: Oh yes, mm hmm. Okay, I'm gonna look back at it. Okay,

648
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 5: y'all don't.

649
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 4: Want to see pictures, So there pictures when you go

650
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 4: out and you're fick, because that sounds.

651
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 5: It's gonna be cute.

652
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 9: Okay.

653
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 4: So now y'all, we're gonna move on to the sentence completions. Okay, Yeah,

654
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 4: I'm gonna pass it over doctor dom for the first

655
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 4: one here.

656
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 5: Okay, so.

657
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 3: Mm hmm see, I'm gonna switch it up a little

658
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 3: bit on my Okay, let's do it.

659
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 5: Let's do it. Okay.

660
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 3: So, the most embarrassing thing I've ever done to get

661
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 3: a crushes at ten is.

662
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 5: Embarrassed to get a CRUSH's attention. Embarrassing.

663
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 7: That's just.

664
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 5: Don't shoot my shadowless. I know what's going in. That's

665
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 5: what listen. I know that's what she's like.

666
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 2: What's the well, I mean, the most of them embarrassing though,

667
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:32,800
Speaker 2: well damn yeah, Well this wasn't a crush. It was somebody.

668
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 2: I mean, does it I went to a different country.

669
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 2: I went to a different country with somebody that was

670
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 2: may or may not have still fully been in a relationship.

671
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 5: Was it now? It was worth it? That ended?

672
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 2: That ended well, but like it was worth because it

673
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 2: ended it. Everyone's on their own journey, Darren. I was not,

674
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, And to be fair, I

675
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 2: was there first. Yeah, all I'm saying is when I

676
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 2: look back, I'm like, that was a lot.

677
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:13,240
Speaker 5: That was a literal journey. That was a journey. Literal journey. Okay,

678
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 5: that's a go website.

679
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 4: He was in the middle of the country. But it all,

680
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 4: it was all worth it. Okay, okay, we got you Esther.

681
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 4: What about you, Darren. I'm really trying to think and

682
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 4: I don't get like flustered often, but this, okay, this

683
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:30,760
Speaker 4: is an expansion of the question.

684
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 6: But most embarrassing thing I did with somebody had a

685
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 6: crush on was one of my porn crushes. I met

686
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 6: at a convention and he this is probably the first

687
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 6: time I've been to one of these like very sex

688
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 6: positive spaces, and you know, he's there doing meet and

689
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 6: greet behind the table and I'm you know, for folks

690
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 6: who don't get to see me in real life. I'm

691
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 6: six foot two and this guy is probably six foot seven,

692
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 6: and so as a six foot two person, I know

693
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 6: that there are certain things you hear all the time

694
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 6: that meet absolutely nothing. But as soon as I walked

695
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 6: up to this man and he said, hey, how are you,

696
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,399
Speaker 6: and I'm like great, and I'm like, you know.

697
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 5: You really are tall? Funny, it was just like and

698
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 5: he was.

699
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 4: He just had that smile, that knowing smile, like huh yeah,

700
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 4: like yeah, I realized, right, I get that all that

701
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 4: time today.

702
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 5: Thank You's so funny when I'm six too.

703
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 4: I know how this comes from a tall person that

704
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 4: is funny, but sometimes you'll know what to say, so

705
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 4: he just like turns you into it.

706
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 5: Shorty. Okay, you just used a R. Okay, and I

707
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 5: appreciate that. That was real cute for you. It's okay.

708
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 2: I tend to go for people are short of you too.

709
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 2: So if you're under five four and a half, how.

710
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:57,879
Speaker 4: I bet that's right. We're gonna put your We're gonna

711
00:39:57,880 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 4: put your Instagram.

712
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 5: I'm okay, I'm just kidding, just kidding. We're not going

713
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 5: to do that. I forgot you said that.

714
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 3: Do it.

715
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 5: She's looking for a fight. No, wow, we're not.

716
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 4: Going to switch up this second a little bit down

717
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 4: because I feel like the last question we should close out,

718
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 4: or the last sentence complete for both of you.

719
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:26,839
Speaker 5: Is what I love most about myself is well esther esther.

720
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 5: I like my body yes.

721
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, so that's right.

722
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 5: I think.

723
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 6: I think to continue the body frame. I really do

724
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 6: enjoy my smile.

725
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 4: You know, I was gonna say, it lights up a room,

726
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:52,720
Speaker 4: but it can also get you in trouble.

727
00:40:52,760 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 9: So okay, okay, sure to Calhoun if you're next.

728
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 4: Like I said, hot boy, Holt boy season, huci daddy

729
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 4: season isn't full effect?

730
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 5: Well, this is enough, y'all.

731
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 4: Just setting up the safeways because we got these photos

732
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 4: pulled up now, okay, photos right here, they're looking good.

733
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 5: Bring it out. I have no idea right now. Okay,

734
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 5: let's see who wants to go first. I will go because.

735
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 2: Okay, I was looking at you both, anything anything could happen.

736
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 4: I'm like, I know, go ahead, they're all good. Okay, Darren,

737
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 4: what's your number out of one in three?

738
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 5: I'll go right in the middle. For number two.

739
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 4: Okay, we may have to choose another photo because I

740
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 4: just realized something about the photo. But what I want

741
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 4: to say is if you can, I'm going to share

742
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 4: the screen and share the photo. You can describe the

743
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 4: photo for folks that are tuning in, and then give

744
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 4: us some context behind the photo. I'm just gonna say

745
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 4: for those that are listening, you need to go to

746
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,800
Speaker 4: Pat Trouns you can see this photo because this photo

747
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 4: you're about to see may cast some issues in many households.

748
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 5: Okay, one, well, let me make sure I got my screen.

749
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 5: Where is my screen?

750
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 4: Yes? Oh yeah, oh yes, Oh my goodness.

751
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 5: Should we read the caption too? Absolutely, let's do it.

752
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 6: Yes, okay, So for those who are listening the audio,

753
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 6: it is a it is an AI enhanced photo of

754
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 6: me that really does look a lot like me. But

755
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 6: that s it does it looks like it. But this

756
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 6: is when like LENSA or Remny, you know, when everybody

757
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,720
Speaker 6: did the social media thing putting their face on whatever.

758
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 6: So this is a photo that looks like me because

759
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 6: I have no tests, but it looks like me, but

760
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 6: it is.

761
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 5: It is a muscular version.

762
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 4: It is its mainly a head and shoulders shot sidelighting

763
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 4: looks like I'm in a gym, but when I tell you,

764
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 4: there are tats everywhere, just just skin.

765
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:03,280
Speaker 5: Glowing melon and popping.

766
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 6: Beard is doing the nice little thing where it's it's

767
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 6: dark on the sides, but it's but it's got the

768
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 6: gray right at the at the chin. And the caption says,

769
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 6: do you realize how many of y'all will be pregnant?

770
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 6: This man has stalkers in different area codes. This guy

771
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 6: makes both spouses, makes both spouses want to cheat. Dude

772
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,399
Speaker 6: doesn't have any any act right.

773
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 5: This is him per people listen, where do I sign up?

774
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 4: And this is yes, it's it's given so much participating

775
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 4: during this absolutely fun. And I did not know those

776
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 4: I thought it was you. I was like, oh, this

777
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 4: is a this is a good one for three options. Okay, esther,

778
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 4: what is what number do you choose? I know, man,

779
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:55,240
Speaker 4: I'm gonna choose three.

780
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,399
Speaker 5: I don't know. I don't know the good one.

781
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 4: Esther, describe the photo first, please, and honestly, this photo

782
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 4: might be messing up something.

783
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:20,359
Speaker 5: It's is a Is that an atmosphere? Yes? Ask me why?

784
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 5: Ask me why? Where there's a right there in a

785
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 5: purple light.

786
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 2: So this is a picture of me and a gentleman

787
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 2: standing behind the stripper pole, and we are both pulling

788
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,280
Speaker 2: our shirts up to expose our abs.

789
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 5: I think I'm biting my lips. I might add.

790
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 2: I am biting my lower lip, as is customary in

791
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 2: the thirst trap tradition.

792
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 5: The caption says, good night, okay, was going to have

793
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 5: a good night photo.

794
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 4: We see people in the car on that's saying if

795
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 4: you got them flowing them you list with an emphasis

796
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 4: on eb okay.

797
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 5: So have you been hiding that all this time?

798
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:12,959
Speaker 2: I did a stand up comedy show at this bar,

799
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:18,279
Speaker 2: and the bar the stage was this platform with the

800
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 2: stripper poll on it, and so at the end of

801
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 2: the night, me and this guy who's also a comedian,

802
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 2: took this picture. He pulled his shirt up and I

803
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 2: was like, fuck it, me too, I mean with the.

804
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 4: Only one exactly, I mean, for real, like yours is

805
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:41,280
Speaker 4: more impressive than his in this phone.

806
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 5: My god, they are. This was fun. Thank y'all for participating.

807
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:50,919
Speaker 5: Fletch his segment with us.

808
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 4: We just have a couple more questions for you and

809
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 4: we'll jump back into the more, the more formal interview.

810
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,439
Speaker 4: So we spoke about losing faith before we hopped into

811
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 4: the blast boom, and so now just talking about just

812
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 4: like the Black church in general. Right, We've often heard

813
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 4: that the Black church is currently at a crossroads, right

814
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 4: where the church congregants are aging and the pews are

815
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 4: not being filled by younger faces, right, and folks are

816
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 4: also tuning in virtually and things of that nature. What

817
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 4: do you believe is the cause of this and what

818
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 4: do you think can be done to attract younger members

819
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:23,240
Speaker 4: for these congregations?

820
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, this is definitely where I do a lot of work.

821
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 6: We're big breath, right. We're in an age at a

822
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 6: time where the current generations have seen every institution fail,

823
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 6: whether it is presidents being out of pocket, whether it's

824
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 6: church leaders again exposed as being abusive, financial institutions failing

825
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 6: jobs you've been working at for forty plus years, dismissing

826
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:54,800
Speaker 6: you without so much as a thought.

827
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 5: The society that.

828
00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 6: They've grown up in says that you can't trust these institutions,

829
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 6: you can't trust these big things, that leadership is not

830
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 6: going to come from the top, And via things like

831
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 6: the Black Lives Matter movement and many other community led efforts,

832
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 6: we've seen people show up for each other, and that

833
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 6: leadership looks like, Okay, I'm concerned about this topic. Let's

834
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 6: gather around the topic, not around the figurehead, not around

835
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 6: the person. Now, previous generations grew up with, Oh, you

836
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:27,399
Speaker 6: got to look for who's at the top. We need

837
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,320
Speaker 6: to figure here, we need to face, we need somebody,

838
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 6: We need a CEO, we need executive director who's going

839
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 6: to make all these decisions and tell everybody else what

840
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 6: to do.

841
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,800
Speaker 5: And that to be a good citizen is to follow

842
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:38,320
Speaker 5: the leader.

843
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 4: And these folks are like, no, y'all leaders suck like

844
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:44,839
Speaker 4: I'm not doing that, and I'm especially not doing it

845
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 4: for an invisible sky daddy God.

846
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 5: And so we have it's okay to laugh.

847
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:57,439
Speaker 2: Not Skydaddy sky Zaddy with the Z Skyzaddy right.

848
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 6: And so what happens is people are not invested in

849
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:07,240
Speaker 6: conforming and assimilating to old church structures. But for older generations,

850
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 6: the safety and the way of life that they know

851
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 6: is hierarchical, top down leadership and these very rigid structures.

852
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 6: And for them, they are clinging onto the structures for

853
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 6: their lives because it's the only way that they know

854
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 6: to be safe in the world. And for folks who've

855
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 6: survived an endless parade of pandemics, wars, disasters, national terrorism,

856
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 6: We're like, yeah, no, I'm good. I'm just gonna be

857
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 6: over here and and take my antidepressants and like call

858
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 6: it a day. Shout out to the antidepressants because maybe

859
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:39,399
Speaker 6: they save in my.

860
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 5: Life, right.

861
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 6: And So when it comes to churches trying to figure

862
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,839
Speaker 6: out how to be relevant, how to how to do

863
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 6: something that matters in the world, I think there's a

864
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 6: deep need to grieve the church that you once knew

865
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 6: because pre pandemic, like we always like, Okay, well we're

866
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 6: just gonna fix it. We just gonna reform it, we

867
00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:59,799
Speaker 6: just gonna change it a little bit. The pandemic showed

868
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 6: us I don't nobody care about us. They will send

869
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 6: us to work in the middle of an entire plague

870
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,800
Speaker 6: that we can't even identify and more or less treat,

871
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 6: and that at the end of the day, they're like, well,

872
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 6: it's more important that that we serve the economy than

873
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:14,840
Speaker 6: it is that we save Grandma.

874
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 3: What.

875
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:19,840
Speaker 6: So it's like, yeah, we're not going to get people

876
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 6: who saw that happen to come and listen to you

877
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:28,800
Speaker 6: preach on Sunday morning. What we will get is spaces

878
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 6: where folks can find community. Like one of the things

879
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:33,759
Speaker 6: that we've lost is third space. Is a space does

880
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 6: not work in a space that's not home. And for

881
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,360
Speaker 6: many of us, we've replaced that with online interactions. But

882
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 6: online interactions can only do so much for us. And

883
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 6: I have some amazing and super important friends that I've

884
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 6: met online, but at some point as humans, not to

885
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 6: replace the online interactions, but as humans, we do need

886
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 6: that personal contact. We do need something that stimulates a

887
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 6: different part of our brain when we're in presence with somebody.

888
00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:59,840
Speaker 6: And so I think that churches should be creating the

889
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 6: space for folks to have third space, and that that

890
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 6: might not be a Sunday morning service, but it might

891
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:09,360
Speaker 6: be a dinner gathering, it might be a technology cafe.

892
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 6: Since your church is sitting empty four days five days

893
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 6: out the week, you know, it might be the kinds

894
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 6: of things that the community needs. And that if we

895
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 6: did a better job, and this is from my grassroots

896
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 6: organizing perspective, if we did a better job of listening

897
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 6: to the communities that we're in, we would find ourselves

898
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:29,800
Speaker 6: more more readily able to align with what the community

899
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,359
Speaker 6: is needing or where they're going, so that when we

900
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,720
Speaker 6: want to do something and we want to rally people,

901
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,919
Speaker 6: we're rallying them around the things that they care about.

902
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 6: Like if your church isn't isn't selling out fish dinners

903
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,240
Speaker 6: every Friday night, then stop trying to give them fish

904
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 6: dinners every Friday night. It's not impossible, but we have

905
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 6: to let go of some traditions if we're going to

906
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 6: be relevant.

907
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 2: I'll start good fish plate, Darren, and I need my

908
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,759
Speaker 2: car washed. But don't use that rough rag on my

909
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 2: you know it. Just take that I see that rough rag.

910
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 2: I want them kids touch in my car.

911
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 5: I don't scratches.

912
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 3: Just take the money, and I don't want them can

913
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:12,759
Speaker 3: peas from the fish plate m m Nope, who made this?

914
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 5: But I will take the can cranberry sauce.

915
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 2: Just yes, I will, yes, I will just tea angy Yeah, yep.

916
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 2: I think Darren covered it. The third space. I mean,

917
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:30,800
Speaker 2: there's nothing that there's nothing that replaces fellowship. That's something

918
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 2: that's a part of church that we have yet to recreate.

919
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 2: Is that fellowship, that feeling you get when you walk

920
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:39,319
Speaker 2: into a space that feels like home, you know, and

921
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 2: you grow with these people over time, and you pray

922
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 2: with them, and you cry with them, and you you know,

923
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 2: do first communions and funerals, and it's just like there's

924
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:53,359
Speaker 2: no other space in the secular world no matter what

925
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,800
Speaker 2: we do that really holds room for all of those

926
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:01,440
Speaker 2: emotions and ways of connecting with people. We just haven't

927
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,279
Speaker 2: recreated it yet, but it is very important and it

928
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 2: definitely is something that I feel like is missing for

929
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:07,839
Speaker 2: a lot of us.

930
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 8: Yeah, I'm really resonating with that and thinking about even

931
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 8: outside of the church space that like the need for community,

932
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 8: the need to find fellowship, but also recognizing that there

933
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 8: are spaces that people don't feel safe in, whether that's

934
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:30,440
Speaker 8: physically safe or emotionally safe.

935
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 3: People don't feel safe in. And so when you think

936
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 3: about a safe religious space, what does that look like.

937
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:43,400
Speaker 3: How can one who is trying to find their way

938
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 3: back into a religious community, what are some of the

939
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 3: things that they can look forward to help them know that, Okay,

940
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 3: this space is a safe space for me.

941
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 6: I'm immediate non playing, I'm immediately singing Beyonce is find

942
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 6: your way back, So you know, Esther makes a point.

943
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 6: Pride flags are a helpful thing I've even especially seen

944
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 6: a lot of women who are looking to figure out

945
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 6: if a church is a space for them, look for

946
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 6: churches that are LGBTQ affirming, because historically, to get to

947
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:18,320
Speaker 6: affirmation you have had to deal with the church's historical

948
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 6: role in stances against women. And so if they if they,

949
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 6: if they've gotten to the LGBTQ, then you already know

950
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 6: women are going to be in leadership, that they're already

951
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 6: going to be able to be full, full, fully empowered

952
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 6: leaders and it's not going to be attached to them

953
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 6: being married to some to somebody can wear with the penis, right,

954
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 6: And so that's one thing. Looking looking at the leadership,

955
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:44,839
Speaker 6: looking at those those kinds of markers that again, if

956
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 6: you walk in a room a ka, look at look

957
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 6: at somebody's website, they're telling you exactly who they are

958
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 6: for the most part, right, So if you can't see

959
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 6: people that look like you, then it then it's it's

960
00:53:57,080 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 6: tentatively not going to be home. It might be a

961
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 6: good space to stop in a visit, but it may

962
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 6: not be home. Beyond that, looking at their transparency about

963
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:10,839
Speaker 6: things like can you tell which political way they might

964
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:14,360
Speaker 6: lean from what they're doing can you get a sense

965
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 6: of what their presence is in the community outside of

966
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:20,800
Speaker 6: the things that they that they're saying about themselves.

967
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:23,040
Speaker 5: Does anybody else care what they're doing in the community.

968
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 6: And then, most importantly, when it comes to LGBTQ things,

969
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:31,040
Speaker 6: they should have a clear and specific answer about what

970
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 6: they believe about LGBTQ plus people and what that means

971
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:40,360
Speaker 6: as far as leadership, because one of the things that

972
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 6: you'll always hear is, oh, we welcome everybody. That don't

973
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 6: mean squat until you say we welcome everyone in leadership,

974
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:55,320
Speaker 6: in marriage and baptisms and funeral like we need specifics

975
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,439
Speaker 6: about what it means in the life of the church

976
00:54:57,520 --> 00:54:59,720
Speaker 6: and what it means for the staff of the church.

977
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:03,760
Speaker 6: Because my experience was my church, when of my previous

978
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:08,759
Speaker 6: churches they were bending over backwards to authentically welcome me,

979
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:11,399
Speaker 6: but they couldn't put it in their policy. So even

980
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:13,239
Speaker 6: though everybody thought I worked for the church because I

981
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 6: did so much there, they had no way to protect

982
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 6: me and to show up for me as a church

983
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:20,759
Speaker 6: because of their stances and practices that to get a

984
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 6: copy of you needed to email a specific secretary who

985
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:26,799
Speaker 6: could email you a PDF. Because they did not make

986
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 6: that public and available to everyone who was coming to

987
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 6: this church by the thousands. So again, it's one of

988
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 6: those things if if we're gonna do this, let's keep

989
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:37,839
Speaker 6: it one hundred, let's talk about it.

990
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 5: I need you to be specific, pacific. Is you is

991
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:43,840
Speaker 5: or is you ain't?

992
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:47,279
Speaker 4: There we go is or issue ain't. I love that

993
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 4: having a clear stance, like we're not beating around the bush, like, wow,

994
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 4: what is your stance here?

995
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:52,440
Speaker 7: Right?

996
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 4: Because you might find a church that you like that yeah, doesn't.

997
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 4: That is not affirming, but they're at least clear about it,

998
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:02,120
Speaker 4: and that is they safer church than the church that

999
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 4: won't that won't say it. M that's good. That's a

1000
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 4: really really good point right there. You all this time

1001
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 4: went by incredibly too fast fast, right, it was so fun.

1002
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:18,880
Speaker 4: We Domini are like we gotta do brunch like when

1003
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 4: y'all come to the bay, or like Caine, let us

1004
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:25,719
Speaker 4: knowing out because Kincher spirits. But is there anything like

1005
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:28,279
Speaker 4: in closing, is there anything that we didn't cover that

1006
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:31,440
Speaker 4: you want to address before we close out?

1007
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 1: What do you feel good about what we covered?

1008
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 6: It could be random, I would because because we did

1009
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 6: talk a bit about church heard and the woundings and

1010
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:45,400
Speaker 6: so forth, and so I think, if anything, I would

1011
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 6: just really invite people to take the time that they

1012
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 6: need to heal, to make healing whatever it is it

1013
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 6: looks like for you. Sometimes we feel like there's an

1014
00:56:55,640 --> 00:57:00,360
Speaker 6: external source of rightness, when the reality is that the truth,

1015
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 6: the God, or the universe, or however you want to

1016
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:04,799
Speaker 6: term it, is right inside of us.

1017
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:05,799
Speaker 5: Our bodies will tell us.

1018
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 6: We just did an interview with Dante Hilliert and he

1019
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 6: was like, our bodies will tell us. It'll let us

1020
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:13,240
Speaker 6: know where the truth is. And I think that for

1021
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 6: those who are going through some of this stuff, you

1022
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 6: can visit our website. We got all kinds of resources.

1023
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 6: You can connect with me personally, and I've got a

1024
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 6: ton of stuff to share. But at the end of

1025
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 6: the day, none of it matters as much as you

1026
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 6: doing what's the most important to you. And if you've

1027
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 6: got to make up your own religion and spiritual practice

1028
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 6: so you can feel about it, you can do that.

1029
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 5: You can do that.

1030
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:39,280
Speaker 6: So we're gonna be all right. The is my closing throat.

1031
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 6: We're gonna be all right, and.

1032
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 5: That hey, you covered it.

1033
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:49,120
Speaker 4: Joys And I feel like people sometimes need that permission

1034
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 4: and that reminder like you have everything you need with it,

1035
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 4: like you can you can go do that. So thank

1036
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:56,160
Speaker 4: you for sharing that. And we'd love for you to

1037
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 4: let our listeners know where can they find you? Where

1038
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:00,280
Speaker 4: can they follow you? Where can they can with? Do

1039
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 4: you feel free to give them all the all the

1040
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:04,520
Speaker 4: t no, Shae and we'll put we'll put those links

1041
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 4: in the show notes as well.

1042
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:08,120
Speaker 5: Of course. Yeah, go ahead there.

1043
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, The Second Sunday Podcast can be found at Second

1044
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 6: Sundaypod dot com. We're available on all things platform all

1045
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 6: platforms like Apple Music and and Spotify, yeh, Apple Music, Spotify,

1046
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 6: p r X, you name it. There's all kinds of

1047
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 6: place to find us or our social media is Second

1048
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 6: Sunday at Second Sunday Pod. We are pretty active on Instagram,

1049
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 6: but yeah, anything else that she wanted to add esther.

1050
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 2: Follow us, I'm at esther already. And Darren, what's your

1051
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:40,600
Speaker 2: handle on Instagram? At hey Darren h E Y D

1052
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:46,800
Speaker 2: A R R et N. All right, thank you so much, Yes,

1053
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 2: thanks for.

1054
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 3: Joining us today. Please note that our show may contain

1055
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 3: conversations about self help, advice, self empowerment, and mental health,

1056
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:03,200
Speaker 3: but is by no means meant to be a substitute

1057
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:07,680
Speaker 3: for an ongoing formal relationship with a trained mental health provider.

1058
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 3: If you are someone you know is in need of

1059
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 3: mental health care, please visit a Therapy for Black Girls

1060
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 3: directory Psychology today or contact your insurance provider.

1061
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:22,000
Speaker 4: If you liked what you heard and want to keep

1062
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:25,720
Speaker 4: the conversation going, visit our website at herspace podcast dot

1063
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 4: com and be sure to click the Patreon link to

1064
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:32,040
Speaker 4: get access to video content, bonuses, and our weekly after

1065
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 4: show and before we meet again, repeat after me. My

1066
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 4: energy is a gift. I choose to share it wisely

1067
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:42,920
Speaker 4: and leave a positive imprint on the world.