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Speaker 1: dot com. Today Crime Stories with Nancy Grace now online

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Speaker 1: a crime online dot com and on Sirius XM one

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Speaker 1: thirty two. If our rescue came to revive the baby

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Speaker 1: and zip down the baby's um nightie. The baby was

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Speaker 1: burned from the neck all the way to his move.

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Speaker 1: A one year old taught a taught boy dead from

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Speaker 1: quote severe bath burns? What happened? Joining me right now,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Chloe Carmichael, Anxiety Tools dot Com founder John Limley,

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter Ashley Willcott, child advocate and lawyer

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Speaker 1: and death scene investigator, Private eye Vincent Hill to John Limley,

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter. This mom seemingly had it all together.

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Speaker 1: She worked at a girl cracker barrel. I mean, who

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Speaker 1: doesn't love cracker barrel and cheesecake factory? Who doesn't love

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Speaker 1: cheesecake factory? We've checked out our Facebook profile. She seemed

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Speaker 1: to be on top of it, raising her children and working.

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Speaker 1: But what exactly happened? This taught dies with severe burns?

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Speaker 1: What do we know? Nancy Christina Hurt told investigators that

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Speaker 1: Ethan was scalded while she was taking out the trash

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Speaker 1: at her house in Homestead. This is on the southern

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Speaker 1: outskirts of Miami. Christina says that while her ten year

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Speaker 1: old daughter was attempting to bathe the victim, the child

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Speaker 1: Christina's four year old son made the bathwater extremely hot,

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Speaker 1: and this caused the little boy to sustain severe burns

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Speaker 1: all the way from his mid torso down to his toes.

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Speaker 1: Christina stated that when she observed the victim's injuries, she

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Speaker 1: dropped because the victim's skin was burned and peeling, but

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Speaker 1: instead of calling for help, Christina gave the baby tylanol

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Speaker 1: and juice, and he threw up repeatedly throughout the night.

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Speaker 1: Christina allegedly told police that she didn't call nine one

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Speaker 1: one because she feared losing custody of her children. I

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Speaker 1: want to go back to the scene to Ashley Willcott

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Speaker 1: joining me child advocate. Ashley, talk to me about the

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Speaker 1: temperature required for this type of burn and how the

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Speaker 1: mom couldn't hear the child. I mean, typically, if you

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Speaker 1: put one toe in a hot tub and it's too hot,

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Speaker 1: you scream and get out of the tub. Exactly. Something's

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Speaker 1: tinky and does not add up because the temperature of

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Speaker 1: the water would have to be extreme and it would

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Speaker 1: have to warm up. Right. It's not like you turn

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Speaker 1: on water and it's this hot. And the severity of

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Speaker 1: burns in order to cause burning and peeling as the

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Speaker 1: mother described, requires that not only is the water hotter

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Speaker 1: than you can possibly imagine as hot as it can get.

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Speaker 1: It has to be on the skin constant contact torso

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Speaker 1: to toes to cause that severe burning and peeling. Okay,

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Speaker 1: wa wait wait wait wait wait, that's a lot of information. Okay.

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Speaker 1: The second worst cause of injuries that are bathtub and

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Speaker 1: shower related are unsafe water temperatures. It's what is referred

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Speaker 1: to as a phenomena of shock and scald shot called

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Speaker 1: by caused by cold water scald by hot Now, typically

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Speaker 1: because of the immediate pain and discomfort, the person instinctively

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Speaker 1: moves quickly away. Scalding is caused by dangerously hot water

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Speaker 1: and can cause burns. Now, what we have learned is

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Speaker 1: that no water in the bath should ever exceed one

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Speaker 1: hundred and ten degrees. Most water heating systems in the

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Speaker 1: US stores water at between one hundred and twenty and

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Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty degrees. At just one hundred and

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Speaker 1: ten degrees, it takes twenty five minutes before water can

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Speaker 1: cause a skin injury. If you raise that to one

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Speaker 1: hundred and twenty, the burn time is about nineteen seconds.

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Speaker 1: If you raise it two one hundred and forty twelve

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Speaker 1: seconds At one hundred and fifty. You start burning in

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Speaker 1: less than one second. So what does that say about

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Speaker 1: the conditions here? To Ashley Willcot, if we were handling

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Speaker 1: this case, what would we have to prove? This child

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Speaker 1: dies of severe burns, the child's skin literally coming off

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Speaker 1: its body. Now explain to me what you believe, Ashley.

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Speaker 1: We would have to prove I've laid out for you.

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Speaker 1: The water temperature is how water is typically stored in

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Speaker 1: America's bathwater storage tanks. How did this happen? We would

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Speaker 1: have to prove that the story of the mother is

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Speaker 1: currently saying cannot possibly be accurate. The temperature of the

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Speaker 1: water means that it just didn't come out of the

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Speaker 1: pipe and burn the child to this extent. The other

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Speaker 1: thing that I would prove is the pattern. They say

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Speaker 1: that the burn is literally from the torso to the toes.

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Speaker 1: You already pointed out, Nancy, anybody who gets hot water

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Speaker 1: that hurts is gonna flail. Right. A one year old

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Speaker 1: is not going to just sit there. This child was

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Speaker 1: immersed the water covered the torso to the toes. This

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Speaker 1: is not a ten year old putting a child under

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Speaker 1: the faucet and oops, there's a burn there. Is so

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Speaker 1: much to prove in this case, that's not going to

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Speaker 1: be difficult because what the mother says happened isn't possible

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Speaker 1: to cause this severe burning. Explain to me why you

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Speaker 1: think it's possible, Because I have an issue with the

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Speaker 1: four year old running the bathwater, and I believe that

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Speaker 1: absolutely could happen, that the four year old turns it

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Speaker 1: on hot. But when the child gets in there, the

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Speaker 1: child would start screaming and flailing and jumping, and I

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Speaker 1: don't think a four year old could hold the baby

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Speaker 1: in there. I don't either. Now they say there was

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Speaker 1: also a ten year old involved, but even a ten

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Speaker 1: year old and a four year old are not, in

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Speaker 1: my opinion, gonna hold a child like that. I don't

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Speaker 1: think it happened this way at all. I don't think

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Speaker 1: what the mothers saying is realistic reasonable to think really happened.

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Speaker 1: This one year old would have burns all over the

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Speaker 1: body from flailing around. A ten year old and four

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Speaker 1: year old are not going to hold the baby submersed

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Speaker 1: under the water from torso to toes when they're reacting

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Speaker 1: that way, They're gonna pull them out out of the top. Well,

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Speaker 1: let me tell you what happened to me on a

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Speaker 1: delta flight, and no, I did not sue, and no,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to sue. I was going to New

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Speaker 1: York because I had to go appear on something and

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Speaker 1: I had asked for hot tea. All right. The lady,

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Speaker 1: she was a young flight attendant, brought me hot water

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Speaker 1: and she was going to pour it in my cup.

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Speaker 1: That right there was stupid. I shouldn't have even allowed

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Speaker 1: that to happen. She handed me cup. She was going

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Speaker 1: to fill the cup up with water, pouring it over

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Speaker 1: the man sitting I was by the window. Okay. So

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Speaker 1: I was seated in an economy and I could barely move.

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Speaker 1: I had the table down with the laptop on it working,

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Speaker 1: of course, and it was holding my cup. There was

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Speaker 1: nowhere for me to go. Okay. The cup gave way

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Speaker 1: and it poured down my shirt. I had on a

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Speaker 1: thin denim shirt that that wouldn't I wear all the time, Ashley,

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Speaker 1: And it poured all the way down my chest and stomach,

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Speaker 1: mostly my stomach. I sat there, I didn't yell or

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Speaker 1: anything like that, and tears just sprang up in my

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Speaker 1: eyes and about She never said are you okay? Nothing,

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Speaker 1: She just kept going, and she came back like twenty

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Speaker 1: minutes later with a bag of ice, which I put

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Speaker 1: on my stomach. It immediately bubbled up and I have

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Speaker 1: scars on my stomach now from that hot water. But

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Speaker 1: in all the years of flying Delta, I never had

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Speaker 1: anything like that happened before. And I could tell she

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Speaker 1: was mortified, and it was really an accident, It really was.

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Speaker 1: So if that happened to me was just a cupful

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Speaker 1: of hot water for tea. What do you think happened

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Speaker 1: to this little boy? John Limley Crime Stories investigate a reporter.

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Speaker 1: The mom says she was taking out the trash. Is

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Speaker 1: that her story? That is exactly what she said she

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Speaker 1: was doing. This was at her home apparently later in

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Speaker 1: the day, and then Thursday morning, after dropping her other

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Speaker 1: children off at school, Christina said that she took her

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Speaker 1: injured son. His name, by the way, is Ethan. Family

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Speaker 1: friends have identified the child. She took Ethan to a

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Speaker 1: friend's home in Gules, Florida, which is about ten miles

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Speaker 1: away from her house. Witnesses told the cops that when

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Speaker 1: Christina arrived at the home in Guls, the baby was

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Speaker 1: lethargic and had shallow breathing. They urged Christina to get

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Speaker 1: medical help for the child, but she quote adamantly refused.

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Speaker 1: Around eleven that morning, the baby stopped breathing, and Christina

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Speaker 1: took him outside and placed him on a mattress in

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Speaker 1: the yard. Hold On, I've got an issue. I didn't

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Speaker 1: understand quite exactly how this is going down, John Loomwell, yes, now,

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Speaker 1: didn't she say she was taking out the trash? Yes? Okay,

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Speaker 1: So why are you saying when she returned to the

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Speaker 1: home where you just mean from taking the trash out right? Correct? Correct? Okay,

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Speaker 1: So Ashley Wilcott and doctor Chloe Carmichael joining me along

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Speaker 1: with Vincent Hill, that doesn't make sense to me. To

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Speaker 1: doctor Chloe, what do you think about the mom basically

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Speaker 1: blaming the other children? Well, exactly, Nancy. I think it's

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Speaker 1: it's really disgusting, you know, not only is she failing

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Speaker 1: to take responsibility even if this ridiculous story is true,

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Speaker 1: really it ultimately would be something that the mom would

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Speaker 1: want to talk about as her own failure that she

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Speaker 1: somehow didn't supervise the bath well enough, but she's really

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Speaker 1: talking about the other children's role in this. And moreover,

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Speaker 1: there's something in psychology that we call impression management, which

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Speaker 1: seems to be pretty active here where she's saying, well,

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Speaker 1: I didn't call the authorities because I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: lose custody, you know, as if she's just such a

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Speaker 1: good mom that she just didn't want to lose custody.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know if she actually even believes that herself.

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Speaker 1: But of course, if you realize that your baby has

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Speaker 1: a bad enough burn that losing custody would even be

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Speaker 1: an option, why on earth wouldn't you get that child

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Speaker 1: medical care? It just it doesn't make any sense, and

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Speaker 1: it seems extremely selfish of her the way that she's

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Speaker 1: going about this. Take a lista to what neighbors say

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Speaker 1: happened when the baby was discovered burned. My brother ran

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Speaker 1: over to try to help with the situation and found

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Speaker 1: the baby. The one old was laying on a dirty

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Speaker 1: mattress and at the time the baby, he was trying

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Speaker 1: to do CPR, but the baby threw up look like

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Speaker 1: apple juice. When paramedics try to I guess do an

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Speaker 1: EKG or whatever they were doing when they zipped down

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Speaker 1: the baby onesie. The baby was burned from neck to

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Speaker 1: his niece too. Ashley Willcott, veteran lawyer and renowned child advocate. Ashley,

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Speaker 1: I know that I was probably too overprotective, as many

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Speaker 1: people have pointed out to me. But we are talking

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Speaker 1: about a young Miami mom whose one year old son

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Speaker 1: dead from quote severe bath burns, and then mommy refuses

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Speaker 1: to call nine one one because she was afraid authorities

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Speaker 1: would take her children away from her. That delay in

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Speaker 1: calling nine one one may have cost her son his life.

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Speaker 1: Mom doesn't call nine one one for fear of losing

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Speaker 1: her children. Not only is it a criminal charge, this

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Speaker 1: is a juvenile court dependency neglect abuse case. Not only

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Speaker 1: is it a crime, but you should not have your

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Speaker 1: child when you are not going to give them a

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Speaker 1: bath supervised and allow these things to happen. I still

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Speaker 1: don't believe mother's story. I think she did it too.

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Speaker 1: John Elimley, investigative reporter, John. How many hours passed before

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Speaker 1: she finally called nine Well, it was well into the

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Speaker 1: next day after the child was burned in the we've

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Speaker 1: assumed the early evening hours the night before. It was

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Speaker 1: around eleven am that the baby stopped breathing. She took

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Speaker 1: the child outside, put him on a mattress on the

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Speaker 1: yard and a neighbor came over tried to perform CPR

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Speaker 1: while his sister then called nine one. She never did

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Speaker 1: call nine one one. The sister call nine one. Is

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Speaker 1: that correct, right a neighbor? Yes. Now what we understand

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Speaker 1: is the four year old son made the bathwater and

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Speaker 1: the ten year old daughter was in there trying to

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Speaker 1: bathe the little boy. And then the mom says when

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Speaker 1: she observed her son's injuries, she dropped because his skin

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Speaker 1: was burned and already peeling. Instead of calling for help,

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Speaker 1: Ashley Walcott, she gave the baby taylanol in juice while

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Speaker 1: he threw up repeatedly during the night. And that's medical neglect, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: Just that tiny little pieces medical neglect. Even if it

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Speaker 1: was a true innocent accident, that's medical neglect resulting in

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Speaker 1: the death, i e. Manslaughter of your own child. She

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Speaker 1: then takes the children to other children to school the

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Speaker 1: following morning and goes to a friend's home. The friends

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Speaker 1: say the baby was lethargic and had shallow breathing. They

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Speaker 1: begged her to get medical help, but she adamantly refused.

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Speaker 1: According to the report, around eleven am, the baby stops breathing.

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Speaker 1: Neighbors tried to give the baby CPR, and when the

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Speaker 1: paramedics came, they pulled down his little zipper on his

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Speaker 1: jumper and say, oh my god. The child unresponsive and

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Speaker 1: pronounced dead at the scene. John Linley has been doing

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Speaker 1: some digging on the mom, John, What have you found, Nancy?

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Speaker 1: Court records showed that Christina has five other children and

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Speaker 1: that she previously served two years on probation for a

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Speaker 1: twenty fourteen child neglect charge. So she's already been on probation,

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Speaker 1: yet she gets all the children back. Ashley, that is

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Speaker 1: so wrong, it is And yeah, she was on probation,

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Speaker 1: but you cannot stop monitoring and requiring to do things

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Speaker 1: to prove she can properly care for and supervise her children,

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Speaker 1: which clearly she cannot. If a child is burned, FYI

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Speaker 1: apply immediate first aid dial nine one one or in

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Speaker 1: some places triple zero for an ambulance if it's severe.

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Speaker 1: Do not use butter oils or eyes to treat burns.

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Speaker 1: Allan deep joining me, what do you know about how

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Speaker 1: to avoid this very same thing in your home? Nancy?

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Speaker 1: As the grandfather of two toddlers, it's something I think

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Speaker 1: about I check the Mayo Clinic website, always a good

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Speaker 1: place for advice. Reduce water temperature at the hot water

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Speaker 1: heater on the thermostat to below one and twenty degrease fahrenheit.

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Speaker 1: No real good reason to have it hotter than that.

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Speaker 1: And at bathtime, aim for water around one hundred degrees fahrenheit.

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Speaker 1: Put your hand in there, and if it's not hot

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Speaker 1: for you, then it should be safe for your child.

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Speaker 1: But do that before you put them in the bath.

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Speaker 1: Avoid hot spills when you carry drink or hot food,

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Speaker 1: don't carry the child at the same time. You can

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Speaker 1: spill it on them, and watch out. If you've got

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Speaker 1: it on the edge of the table or the counter

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Speaker 1: and there's a tablecloth or a placement there, they can

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Speaker 1: easily just reach up with their little hands and pull

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Speaker 1: it down on them and burn them. Here's one I'm

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Speaker 1: really obsessed with. Turn the handles of pots and pans

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Speaker 1: towards the rear of the stove. Use back burners when

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Speaker 1: possible so that they don't reach up and pull the

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Speaker 1: pot of hot boiling water right down on them. And

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Speaker 1: of course don't leave the stove unattended. And another one,

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Speaker 1: when you're cooking with a microwave. When you're heating up food,

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Speaker 1: it can be uneven, so it may be hotter than

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Speaker 1: you realize when you're giving it to the child, so

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Speaker 1: be careful about that, and of course, never warm a

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Speaker 1: baby's bottle in a microwave. I also hear children reaching

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Speaker 1: for curling irons are hot devices. Clothes irons. I did

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Speaker 1: that as a little girl. Check your outlets and electrical

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Speaker 1: cords and use fire resistant fabrics. I want to pause

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Speaker 1: and thank our partner making our investigation into the death

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Speaker 1: of this child possible. It's Legal Zoom. New Year's is

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Speaker 1: legal zoom dot com. Legal Zoom. Thank you. A beautiful

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Speaker 1: blonde from Daytona Beach, Florida now being eyeball by police

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Speaker 1: and not only the death but the dismemberment of her boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: What John Limley, investigative reporter joining me right now. What happened?

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Speaker 1: John Nancy. It had been sometimes since family and friends

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Speaker 1: had seen Jeffrey Albertsman in Daytona Beach, and finally Daytona

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Speaker 1: police were called to his residence for a wellness check,

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Speaker 1: and that's when they found Jeffrey's body, or what remained

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Speaker 1: of it. According to an affidavit, he had been shot

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Speaker 1: in the head and the chest, and his arms and

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Speaker 1: legs were missing. Holy Molly all right, doctor Carmichael, founder

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Speaker 1: of Anxiety tools dot com, New York psychologist Doctor Chloe, Boy,

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Speaker 1: do I need to shrink now? This requires not only

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Speaker 1: shooting someone, but then dismembering them. You know how difficult

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Speaker 1: it is, doctor Chloe, to actually physically dismember a body.

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Speaker 1: It's not like on TV, like on Monk, where you

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Speaker 1: just find a toe here, a finger there in the park.

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Speaker 1: In this bucolic setting, it's not like that. It's not

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Speaker 1: even like Dexter where he lines everything in plastic and

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Speaker 1: everything looks pretty pristine. It is a very difficult thing

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Speaker 1: physically to dismember a human body. But the mental capacity

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Speaker 1: required to actually sever someone's limbs from their torso, doctor Chloe,

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Speaker 1: what kind of mind does that require? Well, Nancy, yes,

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Speaker 1: it seems to be an absolutely deranged mind. And moreover

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Speaker 1: the fact that this is coming from a female makes

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Speaker 1: it even more even more unusual. Obviously, it's unusual in

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Speaker 1: the first place to murder, much less to dismember, but

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Speaker 1: then for a female to be doing that, I've never

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Speaker 1: heard of anything like this. Frankly, I want to go

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Speaker 1: back to John Limley, Crime Stories, investigative reporter John Limley,

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Speaker 1: what can you tell me about why police went. Well,

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Speaker 1: it had been so long since family and friends had

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Speaker 1: had any contact with Jeffrey Albertsman that finally one of

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Speaker 1: them decided it was worth a call just to have

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Speaker 1: police go and see if he was there, if there

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Speaker 1: was any any sign of any crime. And this is

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Speaker 1: when they found his body, you know, to Ashley Wilcott

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Speaker 1: joining me, lawyer and victim's advocate, Ashley, that took a

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Speaker 1: lot because, you know, for relatives to actually want police

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Speaker 1: to go there, because the time passes. Very often, when

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Speaker 1: I don't see a certain person for a period of days,

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Speaker 1: I don't think anything of it. But in this case,

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Speaker 1: they had an inkling that something was very wrong to

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Speaker 1: the extent they called police. This is an example a

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Speaker 1: trust your gut and reports indicate that this woman had

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Speaker 1: been in a ten year relationship with this man, and

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Speaker 1: for her to escalate to the point of actually dismembering

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Speaker 1: her boyfriend, I think there were probably a lot of

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Speaker 1: red flags that she was abusive to this man. You know,

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Speaker 1: and very often we don't see partner abuse like spousal

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Speaker 1: abuse happening committed by the woman on the man. But

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Speaker 1: I recall distinctly when I worked at the Battered Women's Center.

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Speaker 1: It does exist very often. It's pooh pooed I Florida

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Speaker 1: woman out of Daytona Beach now being eyed in the

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Speaker 1: fatal shooting and dismemberment of her boyfriend. Now, of course

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Speaker 1: she's the first one you'll look at. Vincent Hill, private

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Speaker 1: eye and death scene investigator. No offense to all the

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Speaker 1: husband's wives, boyfriends and girlfriends out there, but statistically that's

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Speaker 1: usually who commits the murder. Yeah, and Nancy always want

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Speaker 1: to look at the person that's closest to the victim,

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Speaker 1: right because they were typically the one that had the

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Speaker 1: intimate relationship. And anytime you're talking dismemberment, that's a very personal,

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Speaker 1: up close type of thing, and it's you alluded to

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Speaker 1: it earlier. It's not easy, but it's also not quiet.

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Speaker 1: So you know, that was probably something that was very

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Speaker 1: brutal going on in that home that no one really knew.

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Speaker 1: Back to John Limley joining US Crimes Toys investigative reporter,

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Speaker 1: this woman, Nelsie Tetley. She lived in the same home

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Speaker 1: with the victim. Police called to their residence for a

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Speaker 1: wellness check or a security check. What that is is

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Speaker 1: when you suspect. There's a problem. You call a police

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Speaker 1: and they go do a security check, knock on the doors,

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Speaker 1: look in the windows. They find Albertsman's body shot in

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Speaker 1: the head and the chest, his arms and legs missing.

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Speaker 1: Now that's certainly putting perfume on the pig. John Limley

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Speaker 1: to say they're missing, it's like, oh, I can't find

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Speaker 1: my car keys are missing. His arms and legs were missing, John.

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Speaker 1: Were the limbs ever located, Yes, Nancy, but not until

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Speaker 1: two more months. Two months later, the decomposing limbs were

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Speaker 1: found at a fernery. This is a plant nursery that

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Speaker 1: grows ferns in western Volusia County. WHOA, okay, So they

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Speaker 1: find the limbs badly decomposing by that time at kind

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Speaker 1: of a nursery, and they got DNA results from the

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Speaker 1: crime scene. To Vincent Hill Dessie, an investigator, I mean,

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Speaker 1: just you know, map it out on your head. This

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Speaker 1: would require someone that could shoot the person dead and

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Speaker 1: then not be concerned about being caught. They stay in

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Speaker 1: the home long enough to dismember the legs and arms

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00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 1: off the torso that sounds like somebody that lives there

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Speaker 1: and intruder. If they're going to kill you, kill you

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Speaker 1: and leave. They don't want to get caught. They're worried

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Speaker 1: somebody might come in the front door. Yeah, Nancy, it's

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Speaker 1: definitely not someone that broke in for a home invasion

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Speaker 1: or burglar or anything like that. It's someone that's comfortable

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Speaker 1: in the home, someone that wouldn't look out of place

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00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: being in the home. Someone that could take their time

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Speaker 1: move parts of the body much layer drive at twenty

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Speaker 1: miles like nothing ever happened. Let me ask you about this,

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Speaker 1: what do we know about the state of their relationship, John?

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Speaker 1: According to the arrest affidavit, Nancy Nelson and Jeffrey, as

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Speaker 1: we have mentioned, had been romantically involved for about nine years,

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Speaker 1: but court records revealed that it was a rocky relationship.

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Speaker 1: Nelsie was arrested in October of twenty sixteen after she

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Speaker 1: struck Jeffrey and she actually told him quote, I could

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Speaker 1: kill you tonight if I wanted. She was sentenced to

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Speaker 1: eleven months probation, which she completed in May of twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 1: Court records also show incidents where Nelsie allegedly peppers, freed

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey and even stabbed it to doctor Chloe Carmichael, founder

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00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,959
Speaker 1: of Anxiety tools dot com. New York psychologist doctor Chloe

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Speaker 1: Why would he stay in the relationship when she had

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Speaker 1: threatened him, had beaten him in the past, had actually

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Speaker 1: stabbed him It was a minor wound. On one occasion.

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Speaker 1: He even took out a restraining order against her, but

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Speaker 1: yet stayed together. Well, Nancy, that's the age old question.

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Speaker 1: As you know, why do victims stay with abusers? And

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Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of theories about that. One

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Speaker 1: of the interesting ways to think about it sometimes is

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Speaker 1: actually an economic theory, which is the theory of sunk costs. So,

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Speaker 1: once you've invested so much time and energy and tolerated

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Speaker 1: so much abuse from a person, there's actually a part

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Speaker 1: of you that starts to think that this person must

428
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: be really special and amazing, or else you wouldn't have

429
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: invested so much in them. So ironically, the more abuse

430
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 1: that you take from a person, and the worst that

431
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 1: abuse is, the more invested you can actually become in

432
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 1: believing that this person must be really special and wonderful. Well,

433
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: I guess the thinking is, Wow, I've already sunk in

434
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: ten years into this thing. If I could just get

435
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: in the blink him her to change in the blink

436
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: what the behavior is, then it would all be great.

437
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: So you keep on making the same mistake over and over.

438
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: So okay, he stays in the home, and then what

439
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: happens to John Limley, Well, it's just a matter of months.

440
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 1: In fact, two months pass between when she completed that

441
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: eleven months probation and she returned to the home. Two

442
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: months later is when his body or his torso was

443
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: found in the home. This is the real kicker, isn't

444
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: it true, John Limley? That we have now discovered this woman,

445
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: this lady Nelsie Tetley, is also suspected. Now she is

446
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: being tied to a similar slaying of another boyfriend ten

447
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: years ago. Yes, Nancy, it was in Ormond Beach. It

448
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: happened about a decade before. This is the twenty the

449
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven case of Michael Scott Lewis. His body,

450
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: his chopped up body, was found in garbage bags along

451
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: the Tumoca River for The affidavit interestingly notes that Jeffrey

452
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: Albertsman and Michael Scott Lewis, who were both dismembered, were

453
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: both done in a very unusual way with the use

454
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: of a knife tying these two cases together. Interestingly, Nelsi

455
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: denied remembering that Michael Scott Lewis, a man she had dated,

456
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 1: had been murdered. Take a listen to what the Daytona

457
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: Beach Police Chief Craig Capri has to say. He went

458
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: out there and we're able to go inside the residence

459
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: still well being check when we found our victims, Jeffrey Albertsman,

460
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: who was deceased at the time. We found a decomposed

461
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: body which was in there for probably about two weeks

462
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: part of us getting there, and body had a single

463
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: gunshot went to the head and the body of missing

464
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: its arms of links, which was kind of a suspicious.

465
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: We knew that there was a former ex girlfriend that

466
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: he had some problems within the past. He had filed

467
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: a junction petition which never got completed for protection through

468
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: to some domestic incidents that he had with the suspect.

469
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,239
Speaker 1: He was stabbed by her, and there was a lot

470
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: of filing episodes. Our suspect's name is h Nelse Technical.

471
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: She's sixty seven years old, white female. She was the

472
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: girlfriend of the victim. We as we got further than

473
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: our investigation, conducting interviews and collecting some evidence we processed

474
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: the crime scene. We had set some some blood evidence

475
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: off of DNA to see if we could match stuff up.

476
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: We got that back and which showed our suspects DNA

477
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: was inside the residence where it shouldn't have been. Also,

478
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: in September twentieth this year, we responded out to a

479
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: fernery out in West Volution where we found that somebody

480
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 1: parts were found which were confirmed to be of our victim.

481
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: We are way for justice too unfold. Hang on one moment,

482
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: Ashley Willcott, you are raising children and working full time.

483
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: How tired are you are? You exhausted ash all the time?

484
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: All the time. I am too, And the earlier I

485
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: get up, it seems like the more I have to

486
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: do and I'm wondering where is all my energy? Well,

487
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: part of it has to do with circulation. Your blood

488
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: takes oxygen to all the parts of your body and

489
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: increases your energy. I guess you don't spend much time

490
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: thinking about your circulation, but good circulation is key to

491
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: energy and stamina. Getting that oxygen and nutrients flowing through

492
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: your body so you can exercise longer, do more every day.

493
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Speaker 1: What can you do to promote that healthy circulation, drink

494
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495
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509
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: super Beats. Thank you there this mystery up because it

510
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: is pretty bizarre. What do a family road trip, Graceland,

511
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: the home, the Elvis Presley memorial and a dead body

512
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,359
Speaker 1: have to do with each other? I Nancy Grace, this

513
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 1: is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Questions

514
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:20,359
Speaker 1: arise when a wife goes missing during a family road

515
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: trip to Graceland. All is not as it appears. Joining

516
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: me there on the same Pamela for our Crime Stories

517
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 1: investigative reporter, Pamela, what happened? Well, that's a very good question.

518
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what inspired him to do that, but

519
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,959
Speaker 1: what inspired him to take the trip was the fact

520
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 1: that his wife, Roberta, was dying from cancer. So they

521
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: decided to take one last trip and they wanted that

522
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 1: trip to be to Graceland to Memphis and before she died,

523
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: and she was not doing very well, so this is

524
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 1: the trip they decided to take. On January the source,

525
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:05,320
Speaker 1: they traveled from Hartville, Ohio, got in their car, packed

526
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: it up, and they traveled to Sparta, Kentucky. That's kind

527
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: of a halfway point really from Hartville to Memphis. They

528
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 1: got a motel room they spent the night. The next day,

529
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: January the fifth, they continue their journey to Memphis. When

530
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 1: they arrived Philips, the husband got a room at the

531
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,439
Speaker 1: day's end, which is directly across from Graceland. I guess

532
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: that was going to make it convenient for them to

533
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: go see whoa hold on Pamela Fur, Let me understand something.

534
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 1: Where did they start their trip? They started their trip

535
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: in Hartville, Ohio. Okay, So does their route make sense?

536
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: They go from Hartville to Kentucky. I believe you said yes,

537
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: yes from yes, it does. If you want to go

538
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: from that area to Memphis, you would travel through Kentucky

539
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: to get to that final destination and again a halfway point.

540
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 1: They spent the night there in Sparta. Let me ask

541
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: another question, Pamela Fir joining me from Tennessee on a

542
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:06,919
Speaker 1: Tennessee story out of Graceland where the King Elvis has

543
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:12,240
Speaker 1: his memorial. Pamela, does anybody else confirm the wife had cancer?

544
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: Are we learning this just from the husband? The brother

545
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,240
Speaker 1: actually confirmed that he that she was diagnosed with cancer.

546
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 1: The brother of roberta to police that she had been sick. Okay,

547
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 1: so being diagnosed with cancer, I mean I had a

548
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:30,359
Speaker 1: melanome on my leg, so I guess technically I could

549
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 1: say I had cancer. I don't really think of it

550
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:39,800
Speaker 1: that way, because, thank God in Heaven, it did not spread,

551
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: and David did not get the joy of running out

552
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: and marrying some tramp to raise my children. So I'm

553
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: still here, Okay, but I mean, how do we know?

554
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 1: He says his wife was dying of cancer. That's good

555
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: that you're saying. The brother said, as she had cancer?

556
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: Bet yeah, was she you know? Just curious? Yeah? I mean,

557
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: Vincent Hill, don't poop poo me. I mean, these are

558
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 1: questions I need to know the answers to go ahead, Pamela. Yeah.

559
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 1: So we fast forward to January the ninth, when you

560
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 1: have a missing person and the police in Heartville, Ohio

561
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: are investigating. Things get bizarre at this point, Philip Sniper,

562
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: who said she was missing, who reported her missing? Brother?

563
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,760
Speaker 1: The brother said, we can't find her up and trying

564
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 1: to reach her, and she is not answering our phone calls.

565
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: Philip wasn't answering his phone calls, so he contacted the

566
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: police and at that point the police opened a missing

567
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:43,359
Speaker 1: person investigation. Pamela, what happened then? Well, this is where

568
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 1: things get bizarre. So Heartville, Ohio police contacts Philip and

569
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: ask him where's your wife? What happened? And he tells

570
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 1: them that she passed away on the trip from Ohio

571
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 1: to Memphis. When they got to the Memphis days in

572
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 1: across from Graceland, she he says, passed away, so he

573
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: flagged down an ambulance that he saw parked outside of

574
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 1: the days In on the street. He tells police that

575
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 1: he contacted that emergency person there in the ambulance and said,

576
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: my wife has died. And at that point the ambulance

577
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,760
Speaker 1: took the body and drove away, and he told police

578
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: at that point he didn't know where his wife's body was,

579
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: and so that's when he drove back to Ohio. That

580
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: was the first story. So we had the brother of

581
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:41,760
Speaker 1: Roberta Snyder calling the Hartville, Ohio Police Department telling them

582
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:46,240
Speaker 1: that his wife was missing. Nobody has any idea where

583
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 1: she is. Then the husband, Roberta's husband explains that his

584
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: wife died in Memphis and he pulled over and asked

585
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 1: an EMT for help. He claims that his wife was

586
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: taken to an unknown location after Pyramids confirmed she is

587
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: in fact dead, and that is what he told them.

588
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: What happened then with me, Pamela fur they're in Tennessee

589
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:18,879
Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative contributing reporter. I don't understand. Couldn't they

590
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 1: locate her from the EMT ride. I mean to Vincent Hill,

591
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: death investigator. Vincent, when you take a ride in an ambulance,

592
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: isn't that always documented? Absolutely? Nancy has documented it's dispatch

593
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 1: dispatcher records, the pickup location, the drop off location, So

594
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,280
Speaker 1: all of those records should have been known to the

595
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: other mts that this man approached and said, Hey, I

596
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: can't find my wife. She was taken away, but I

597
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 1: don't know where she is. I recall distinctly the one

598
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: and only time I recall being in an ambulance. I

599
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 1: was pregnant in Florida. We thought that I was giving

600
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: birth even more prematurely than I did, and I had

601
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:05,760
Speaker 1: a very long, one hour ambulance ride with an EMT

602
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 1: named Elvis who had one eye. That's what I remember,

603
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: and you know, he was awesome, and I remember it

604
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 1: to this day, and I'm sure there's a record of it.

605
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: So what I don't understand, Pamela Fir, you just heard

606
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 1: our death scene investigator Vincent Hill. All of that is documented.

607
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 1: Nobody can find out where the body is, correct, there's

608
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 1: no record of it. Hertville, Ohio Police Department contacted the

609
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,839
Speaker 1: Benton County Sheriff's Department and other officials there, and there

610
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: is no record of anybody being taken from the parking

611
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: lot of the day's end across the street from Graceland.

612
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,760
Speaker 1: There's no record of it, there's no police report, there's nothing,

613
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 1: and it's been investigated. So Philip wasn't exactly telling the Heartville,

614
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: Ohio police apartment the truth. And things even get more

615
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 1: bizarre after that, after they said I'm sorry, sir, but

616
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,240
Speaker 1: we have no record of anything like that, he changes

617
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 1: his story and then at that point says, well, what

618
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 1: happened was she died on the way to Memphis. I

619
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 1: decided on the way back to Ohio that I would

620
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 1: dump her body off the Tennessee off the bridge into

621
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 1: the Tennessee River so that she could be with nature.

622
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 1: That's the way that she wanted to die. Wait wait, wait,

623
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: wait wait, be with nature? Yes with me? New York

624
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: psychologist and founder of Anxiety tools dot Com Doctor Chloe Carmichael,

625
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 1: Doctor Chloe be with nature. Yes, Nancy, I hear it.

626
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 1: It's it's pretty implausible. At the same time, I just

627
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: have to understand that this is a husband who's who

628
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: perhaps protect Chili, may have lost his wife who certainly,

629
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 1: it sounds like, appeared to realize that it's not okay

630
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 1: to you know, put a body into a river to

631
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: be with nature, even if the person did have cancer

632
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: at the same time. You know, if it is true

633
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 1: that his wife had cancer, it would be an extreme trauma,

634
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 1: a terrible loss. Sometimes the spouses even actually come up

635
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,839
Speaker 1: with these plans together. You know that one of them

636
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: wants the other person to help them in an assisted suicide.

637
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: So I think the only thing that we can really

638
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: see clearly here, at least from a psychology standpoint, is

639
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:45,840
Speaker 1: that this man is either confused or in shock, or

640
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 1: is deliberately covering something up. Well, it just gets crazier

641
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 1: and crazier. We are talking about a wife and her

642
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: husband a family road trip. They decide they want to

643
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 1: go from their home all the way by car to

644
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 1: Grace Land and celebrate Elvis Presley. Well, somehow en route,

645
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: his wife or her body disappear. He claims she passed

646
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: away by natural causes on the trip. Once they finally

647
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 1: make it to Memphis and he flags down an ambulance

648
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:23,879
Speaker 1: an emte's parked, and they take her, and he has

649
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: no idea where she's been taken. But then suddenly the

650
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,919
Speaker 1: story changes and he conducts his own funeral and throws

651
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 1: her over an overpass to be in the Tennessee River

652
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 1: to be back with nature. Okay, Pamela for joining me

653
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 1: there in Tennessee. Pamela, what happened then? Well, at that point,

654
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: that's when the Benton County Sheriff's Department has decided to

655
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 1: get involved, because if there's a dead body that's been

656
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 1: thrown into the Tennessee River, they have to investigate, because

657
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,359
Speaker 1: you can't do that. So at this point, they are

658
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: looking for this body. So far they've found nothing, and

659
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: so far there's been nobody in Memphis. So she's still missing.

660
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 1: So the investigation continues. And I also want to add

661
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: Roberta Snyder's brother, who reported her missing, says that Philips,

662
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: the husband, told family members that she died and he

663
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:26,280
Speaker 1: left her ashes in Tennessee. So there's actually three different

664
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 1: stories at this point coming from Philip Snyder. After speaking

665
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 1: with Philip Snyder and e MS Company's hospital and medical

666
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 1: examiner offices in the Memphis area, police determine no women

667
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: matching Roberta's description had been there. And I'm looking at

668
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 1: a picture of her right now. She looks pretty good

669
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 1: to me. She doesn't actually even look sick. Now. According

670
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:54,399
Speaker 1: to the brother, her brother. She was battling cancer. But

671
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 1: battling cancer and dying from cancer are two very, very

672
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 1: dif different things. I'm looking Jack, you look at this

673
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 1: picture of Roberta. She looks fine as a fiddle to me.

674
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: She's doing a kind of an over the shoulder look,

675
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 1: clutching her little pocket. But look at this, Look at

676
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 1: her cute right all right to Vincent Hill joining me,

677
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: Private Eye and Death Seen Investigator, Vincent Hill. The whole

678
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 1: thing just stink. So what do we do now? There's

679
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,360
Speaker 1: no body. There's certainly no ashes. I mean, when you'd

680
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: make ashes and you cremate, there would be evidence of

681
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 1: a cremation. I mean, that's very very strictly regulated. Plus

682
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 1: don't most people keep some of the ashes? I mean

683
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 1: I've even got my cat's ashes. Yeah, absolutely, Nancy. I mean,

684
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 1: you can't just go out into the backyard and burn

685
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: a body and collect the ashes. You would have to

686
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 1: go to someone that's trained and license to do that.

687
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 1: Ancent Hill, I'd like to thank you for conjuring that

688
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,919
Speaker 1: image up in my mind, because now that I've seen

689
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 1: it in my mind, I can't unsee it. But okay,

690
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 1: go ahead, Sorry, Nancy. You know and the whole thing

691
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: about he wanted her to be with nature. As an investigator,

692
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: when I hear someone's dumped in the water, it tells

693
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 1: me you're trying to hide evidence and the thing about

694
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: the truth, not that you want them to be with nature.

695
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 1: You're trying to hide their body for being about the truth.

696
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: It doesn't change, right, So why is this guy's story

697
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 1: changing so many times? The truth has not changed at all.

698
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 1: It's the same story every time. Phone records, credit card data,

699
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: GPS info as now being investigated to hopefully get a

700
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 1: little bit of a more detailed picture about what happened

701
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:40,799
Speaker 1: to Roberta. Now, the FBI has also been asked to

702
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,280
Speaker 1: conduct a polygraph on Philip Snyder. Do we have any

703
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:47,439
Speaker 1: idea whether he has agreed to do that, Pamela, Yeah,

704
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: he actually has agreed to do that. It is unknown

705
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 1: at this time if he's actually gone through that process yet,

706
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 1: but I do know that he has agreed to do it.

707
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 1: It's also my understanding you mentioned the credit card receipts

708
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: and that sort of thing. They've talked to the clerk

709
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: at the day's end there in Memphis, and although he

710
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 1: does remember Philip checking in, he checked in with his

711
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 1: wife's credit card, paid for this room with his wife's

712
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: credit card, but he does not remember seeing Roberta at all.

713
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 1: He does contend that there's a possibility he wouldn't have

714
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 1: seen her, but he doesn't recall seeing her in the

715
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 1: vehicle that they were driving when they checked in. Wow.

716
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: What we're saying is that this woman was last seen

717
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 1: alive January one. This is an event that happened somewhere

718
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 1: between home and Graceland. That seven hundred miles between their

719
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 1: home and Graceland. Their home in Hartville, Ohio. Hartville Police

720
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 1: working the case, Memphis Police working the case. We are

721
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 1: working the case. I've got a very very strong feeling,

722
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 1: doctor Chloe Carmichael that ROBERTA. Snyder did not want to

723
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 1: be thrown unceremoniously often overpass on I ninety into the

724
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 1: Tennessee River to quote be with nature. I would agree, Nancy,

725
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 1: it does sound pretty implausible. I'm just trying to understand

726
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:27,959
Speaker 1: the motivation and the mental clarity of the husband when

727
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 1: he did this, because they do think psychologically. That's an

728
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: important distinction. Take a listen to what the Benton County

729
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:38,399
Speaker 1: Sheriff has to say. This is Kenny Christopher. Listen. He

730
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:42,280
Speaker 1: said to have wrapped her body in plastic and dispose

731
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 1: of her body over this bridge here. According to what

732
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: he's telling authorities, there is and she passed away somewhere

733
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 1: in Kentucky on the way to Graceland. And he continued

734
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: on with their journey. So they flew up and down

735
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 1: the river channel and before about eight mop north of

736
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 1: here where the river flowing, and we found nothing. For

737
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 1: anyone that has information regarding the disappearance of ROBERTA. Snyder,

738
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 1: please call Benton County Sheriff's Department seven three one two

739
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 1: seven nine four two eight zero, seven three one two

740
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 1: seven nine four two eight zero Nancy Grace Crime Stories,

741
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: signing off, goodbye friend,