Speaker 1: Loud and Quiet Presents Midnight Chats.
Speaker 2: Hi everyone, welcome to the Witching Hour once again. It
Speaker 2: is the eighth of February twenty eighteen, and it's time
Speaker 2: for another episode of the Loud and Quiet interview podcast
Speaker 2: Midnight Chats. It's been a long day today. I've only
Speaker 2: just got home. I've been out at the Theater in
Speaker 2: the West End of London, in theater Land, not something
Speaker 2: I do very often, but I've just been to see
Speaker 2: The Book of Mormon, which I've wanted to see since
Speaker 2: it came over to the UK. And what an incredible
Speaker 2: show that is. I mean, I don't like musicals, it's
Speaker 2: not for me, but this is the best thing about
Speaker 2: this show is that it's a cynics basically who don't
Speaker 2: really like musicals. I was staring at the stage and
Speaker 2: grinning like a small child in wonder. This isn't a
Speaker 2: great theater review, is it. But trust me, go and
Speaker 2: see that musical if you haven't already. It's a bit
Speaker 2: sweary and if you like religion then it might not
Speaker 2: be for you either, but I enjoyed that a lot.
Speaker 2: In the day, In fact, in the day every day
Speaker 2: this year. We're currently doing a big project at Loud
Speaker 2: and Quiet. We're redesigning our magazine which will be relaunching
Speaker 2: on the tenth of March. That's something that we do
Speaker 2: as well as this podcast, so if you are not
Speaker 2: aware of that or haven't checked that out, please do
Speaker 2: check out our website Loud and Quiet dot com, where
Speaker 2: you can also find all the information about our issues
Speaker 2: that we put out. Current one has King Gizzard and
Speaker 2: the Lizard Wizard on the cover. For now, though, you're
Speaker 2: here to hear our podcast and my guest tonight is
Speaker 2: Gueno Saunders, a musician from Wales, and this is quite
Speaker 2: a beautiful piece of planning because today, as we tick
Speaker 2: over into a new day at midnight, it is today
Speaker 2: Welsh Language Music Day. That's an important thing because Gueno
Speaker 2: is not only a Welsh lady and musician, she's someone
Speaker 2: who is very, very proud of her heritage. She made
Speaker 2: her debut album in twenty fifteen completely in Welsh, which
Speaker 2: is not really something that many people do, and that
Speaker 2: was a great record with a real sci fi undercurrent.
Speaker 2: It translated to the Last Day and as I say,
Speaker 2: the whole thing was in Welsh. It was kind of kroud,
Speaker 2: rocky and a bit psyched. Elick very much recommend that album.
Speaker 2: Her new album is called lakov and Gueno's gone one
Speaker 2: further and she's recorded this one completely in Cornish. Now
Speaker 2: only two hundred people in the world fluently speak Cornish,
Speaker 2: and I know what you're already thinking. It's not for me, Stuart.
Speaker 2: I don't want to hear an album completely in Cornish.
Speaker 2: I don't speak Cornish, and I can see why you
Speaker 2: would come to that conclusion. But like Gueno's previous album,
Speaker 2: Lacov is such a beautiful electronic album that it really
Speaker 2: doesn't matter that you can't understand a word she's saying.
Speaker 2: It's just a very gentle and kind of hypnotic listen.
Speaker 2: It comes out on March the second via Heavenly. Go
Speaker 2: back and listen to The Last Day as well, released
Speaker 2: two years ago, also on Heavenly, and I don't think
Speaker 2: you're going to be disappointed, even if you don't speak
Speaker 2: Welsh or Cornish. Gueno's led a really interesting life so far.
Speaker 2: At the age of seventeen, she left Cardiff, where she
Speaker 2: grew up and went to live in Las Vegas for
Speaker 2: two years, where she danced in Michael Flatley's Lord of
Speaker 2: the dance. We speak a little bit about that at
Speaker 2: the beginning of this podcast, and it sounds like a
Speaker 2: very strange and kind of sad time. She then moved
Speaker 2: back to the UK and to Brighton, where she joined
Speaker 2: girl group The Pipets, who you may remember for wearing
Speaker 2: some pretty great poker dot dresses and doing synchronized dance
Speaker 2: moves whilst singing kind of some very kitchen retro fun songs.
Speaker 2: And now she's back in Cardiff where she lives with
Speaker 2: her two year old son and her husband Reese, who
Speaker 2: makes the music with her. They collaborate on all of
Speaker 2: Gueno's music together. Thank you for downloading this podcast. Please
Speaker 2: do subscribe if you haven't already, We've got I think
Speaker 2: we're going to do a podcast next week and the
Speaker 2: following you instead of so that there's going to be
Speaker 2: three in a row over the next three weeks. Enjoy
Speaker 2: this one and we'll be back in seven days time.
Speaker 2: Greg will be your host then and until then, please
Speaker 2: do enjoy this conversation that I had with Gueno. Happy
Speaker 2: Welsh Language music day. Of course that's today now.
Speaker 3: It is actually, isn't it. We will be the first
Speaker 3: people to say to say these MUSICI happis.
Speaker 2: How long has that been going on?
Speaker 3: I don't think it's been going on a few years now.
Speaker 3: It's fantastic.
Speaker 2: I only actually found out about it because we got
Speaker 2: like a promotional pack. Okay, we have an illustration of
Speaker 2: you have you seen this?
Speaker 4: I know?
Speaker 2: Really good?
Speaker 3: So cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you're like a post the person for today.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean there's a lot of really good Welsh
Speaker 3: music in general going on both languages, So yeah, fantastic.
Speaker 2: Are you typically a nighttime person a.
Speaker 3: Bit too much? Yeah? Because yeah, Well, because I've got
Speaker 3: a two year old son, and you think, right, as
Speaker 3: soon as he gets to sleep, as I can do something,
Speaker 3: But he doesn't sleep so quite late. Right, Okay, so
Speaker 3: he's a bit of a night owl, so I'm definitely
Speaker 3: at this time.
Speaker 2: Does he get that from you? Have you always been something?
Speaker 3: Well? No, he gets that from his dad's who was
Speaker 3: very much a night owl and makes most of his
Speaker 3: music in the middle of the night, So I think he,
Speaker 3: I think is. And so it's difficult because because like, well,
Speaker 3: no one else is going to sleep, so where should I? Yeah,
Speaker 3: what are you guys doing? Yeah, a bit of that
Speaker 3: going on.
Speaker 2: I always felt like that I still feel like that
Speaker 2: and did as a kid. I've always felt like going
Speaker 2: to sleep is kind of like giving in.
Speaker 3: A bit totally, like have you had have you made
Speaker 3: the most of your day?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Completely, I felt I feel that way about sleep, which
Speaker 3: is wrong. I definitely remember having to go to sleep
Speaker 3: when there was still sunlight coming through the curtains and
Speaker 3: being a bit annoyed about it.
Speaker 2: In the summer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's like, what are you doing? Son? It was
Speaker 3: always traveling around, so it probably would have been up
Speaker 3: quite late anyway. It's always been up late and then you, yeah,
Speaker 3: sort of transition to gigs and stuff, so you're always
Speaker 3: up late on you really.
Speaker 2: I suppose as a musician it is just a nighttime.
Speaker 2: It's a nocturnal thing. It really is, generally. So you
Speaker 2: grew up in in Cardiff. Yeah, and you still live
Speaker 2: there now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, back back there.
Speaker 2: But you moved away because you went to I. So
Speaker 2: we met in Cardiff.
Speaker 3: We did.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, you gave us a tour round I did.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I've been back since. Actually, that was the first time I've.
Speaker 3: Been when I met you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I was back there last year and I
Speaker 2: was in your manager's office in the arcade and they
Speaker 2: were like old Gueno's back here, all right, okay, And
Speaker 2: then they took me kind of to a window and
Speaker 2: there was that huge mural of you on club I
Speaker 2: for that, I know to explain that to anyone who
Speaker 2: has not been there or seen it. It is the
Speaker 2: side of a whole building. Is of your face? Is
Speaker 2: that still there?
Speaker 3: It was a project called Get It Right. I think
Speaker 3: that it was about celebrating local culture and I think
Speaker 3: going to gigs and things like that, and then it
Speaker 3: was just really weird chain of events and a guy
Speaker 3: called Mark James that designed it, and then there was
Speaker 3: a graffiti artist that painted it. Yeah, and I think
Speaker 3: it was just quite random that I was chosen to
Speaker 3: do it, and then it was Yeah, two weeks after
Speaker 3: Nicole was born it was finished. And then I took
Speaker 3: Nichole to see it the other day and he's like,
Speaker 3: mam ma'am like this because it must be really weird
Speaker 3: because he probably thinks everyone's mum's on the wall. It's
Speaker 3: quite normal. But yeah, very yeah, really honored obviously, and
Speaker 3: it's sort of quite sci fi because of it was
Speaker 3: based around the theme of my last album. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: then I keep an eye on Alan and Kevin to
Speaker 3: stell office and make sure that they're working every day.
Speaker 3: It's like some kind of like lenin esque or like
Speaker 3: stalin esque mural looking over people as they're working. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's funny because I very long time ago as a
Speaker 3: professionalised dancer as a teenager, and I danced at the
Speaker 3: New York Casino in Las Vegas and I was actually
Speaker 3: on the side of the bus. So I've been on
Speaker 3: a bus on a wall. Wow, this theme happening. I
Speaker 3: don't know. It's just very random. Again, it was just
Speaker 3: like so they just check my face.
Speaker 2: Okay, So the bus. Yeah, was it just the one bus?
Speaker 3: No, it was quite a few, the buses that go
Speaker 3: up and down the strip.
Speaker 2: Okay, this is Las Vegas. Yeah, this is when you're
Speaker 2: doing the So you moved Vegas when you were.
Speaker 3: Like seventeen, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Why would say? And you were dancing it was this
Speaker 2: when you were dancing in Lord, Lord of the Dance.
Speaker 3: As you do, Yeah, as you do.
Speaker 2: Which is in itself is a mad thing, completely, a
Speaker 2: completely insane thing.
Speaker 3: Again, it's just very random, like paying fifty p to
Speaker 3: go to class and then all of a sudden, it's
Speaker 3: like you can in a living and you can like
Speaker 3: escape from your hometown because you're like, what am I
Speaker 3: going to do? And then someone goes, here's a ticket
Speaker 3: to Australia or whatever, and you're like, amazing.
Speaker 2: Great, I'll take it. Yeah, and then you're on a bus.
Speaker 3: And then you're on a bus.
Speaker 2: So when you're on the so you'd see these buses
Speaker 2: driving past with your face on? Was it just you?
Speaker 2: Was there some other people in this picture? Is it
Speaker 2: just it's just your big face?
Speaker 3: I've got a photo of one. I need to get
Speaker 3: it out.
Speaker 2: Actually, were you in.
Speaker 3: The life is like that? You know, it's just quite random.
Speaker 2: Were you in like a costume?
Speaker 5: You?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, like you looking sort of as angelic as like
Speaker 3: I possibly could. And it's white.
Speaker 2: What was Vegas like to live in? I think people it.
Speaker 3: Was just horrendous? Really, it was awful, awful?
Speaker 2: Did you how long were you there?
Speaker 3: Two years?
Speaker 2: Two years?
Speaker 3: It's awful.
Speaker 2: Don't people say that it's worth going to Vegas for
Speaker 2: like a weekend, but you don't need any longer than that.
Speaker 3: That's exactly what they say.
Speaker 2: And they're right, and you're there for two years?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, It's just it's just you know it's yeah,
Speaker 3: you just because I dread. I tried to rough guide
Speaker 3: to Las Vegas, and rough guides are really good. And
Speaker 3: actually think it really oversold Last Vegas a little bit
Speaker 3: because it's sort of, you know, suggested a lot more
Speaker 3: history than what actually is left, because you know, even
Speaker 3: like the old bit and stuff, and you know, to
Speaker 3: give you a bit of a backstory. And I was
Speaker 3: just so I remember landing and just being so disappointed
Speaker 3: as soon as I landed, going, oh my god, and
Speaker 3: then like living seven miles from the strip, but you
Speaker 3: can see it as if it's right there, because it's
Speaker 3: you're so flat?
Speaker 2: Is it so flat?
Speaker 3: And I was like, I'll just take a walk. That's
Speaker 3: three hours later, I was still walking. I still hadn't arrived.
Speaker 3: It's just I don't know, I don't know what to
Speaker 3: say about it.
Speaker 2: So you were over it as soon as you got there.
Speaker 3: It was yeah, it was did you was it that.
Speaker 2: You had to stay for two years so we're on
Speaker 2: a contract.
Speaker 3: That was kind of I was, yeah, it was like
Speaker 3: every six months we got to go home two weeks okay,
Speaker 3: And it was really odd.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it kind of throws you a bit because I
Speaker 3: think when it was so different. I think to the
Speaker 3: sort of homely, kind of comity community feel of all
Speaker 3: of these interests that I'd sort of been a part of.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: It's like going to your like local youth club and
Speaker 3: just doing a hobby and then all of a sudden
Speaker 3: it's like, whoa, it's the Las Vegas Strip and then
Speaker 3: there's like lots of glitter lights and it's just so fun.
Speaker 3: It's just like the americanization of something. And I always say, like,
Speaker 3: remember some meet people, Oh, you know, I've lived in
Speaker 3: Las Vegas. There's nothing like Americans. And it's really true
Speaker 3: because obviously all of North America is very different from
Speaker 3: the rest of it because it's so varied. But I
Speaker 3: definitely felt that it was about something American, you know,
Speaker 3: like undeniably American. Like it was very It's like the
Speaker 3: vulgarity of it, which I really fully embraced and bought
Speaker 3: massive wigs and things. Oh god, I look like Simba,
Speaker 3: just like a big lion, just I don't know, like
Speaker 3: a lollipop basically, very lollipop awful.
Speaker 2: What does a typical day in Las Vegas for two
Speaker 2: years like, because you're dancing at night?
Speaker 3: Yeah, eventually I got into techno because there was a
Speaker 3: club on them. Yeah, because we were just board Shipless
Speaker 3: and there was a club on last Vegas ship called Utopia.
Speaker 3: There was like a dance club. It's like the only
Speaker 3: dance club, like where big DJs at the time, late nineties. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: that kind of thing, Carl Coxniversity. Yeah, So it was
Speaker 3: that kind of circuit, and it was weird because I
Speaker 3: think that all of the sort of acid house that happened.
Speaker 3: It's odd that relationship I think between Europe, the UK
Speaker 3: and North America with electronic music going back and forth
Speaker 3: all time. Because when I was there, it was like
Speaker 3: the height of like dance music and people really excited.
Speaker 3: And I remember when I came back and I'd go
Speaker 3: to places in Cardiff and like the club Nights because
Speaker 3: the Hippo Club was closed that and I never got
Speaker 3: to which was like the legendary acid house club in Cardiff.
Speaker 3: And then I remember coming back and going out to
Speaker 3: nights in Cardiffin. It's really depressing because people had been
Speaker 3: doing it for about decade and they're a bit tired
Speaker 3: at that point. Where it's in Las Vegas. At that point,
Speaker 3: everyone was really excited and it was already new, and
Speaker 3: like you know, we were all just like teenagers, managed
Speaker 3: to sort of sneak into a dance club and like
Speaker 3: just staying up all night and then that really helped,
Speaker 3: actually because it was a real, real escapism from the
Speaker 3: monotony of having to repeat yourself constantly and yeah, and
Speaker 3: just being so far away from home and all of
Speaker 3: that stuff. So it's yeah, it was it, I mean
Speaker 3: it was it did that. I suppose I sort of
Speaker 3: got more into electronic music.
Speaker 2: Did you ever get into the slots?
Speaker 3: What DJ you?
Speaker 5: No? Like?
Speaker 2: No, like gambling? Did you ever go in?
Speaker 3: No? I did gamble once, but again I was, you know, seventeen.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so you can no, not really twenty one?
Speaker 3: Are you just like going in off fake idea ideas everywhere?
Speaker 2: There's not there's just not much to do, I guess,
Speaker 2: just boring.
Speaker 3: It's making me feel weird talking about you thought about
Speaker 3: it for such a long time.
Speaker 2: It's an amazing thing to have done.
Speaker 3: Though, well, I think if someone says I think with it,
Speaker 3: like life in general's like someone says, I don't do this,
Speaker 3: you don't say no, I don't think. Maybe you do
Speaker 3: if you're wiser, but sometimes you need to do the
Speaker 3: bad thing to know that you shouldn't have done it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and it's you know, and also I always think, you know,
Speaker 3: when you're really, really really old hopefully and you're sat
Speaker 3: down and like maybe you're lucky to have grandchildren, I say,
Speaker 3: what did you do when you say, like, just you've
Speaker 3: always got a story to tell them? Yeah, like this
Speaker 3: one time. But you know you always like I think
Speaker 3: it's you need your little adventures so that you can
Speaker 3: tell you like little stories and they'll be like, whoa,
Speaker 3: but you're really old and wrinkly. How did you ever
Speaker 3: do that?
Speaker 2: Yeah? How did you ever meet Michael Flatley? It was
Speaker 2: Michael Flatley in the show when you were in the show.
Speaker 3: Well, I did dance with Michael Flatley at in Frankfurt
Speaker 3: in the sort of Amphithea to where Hitler gave all
Speaker 3: the speeches, which I always loved. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 3: this is like, this is culture squid, Yeah, this is mental.
Speaker 3: I really enjoyed that. Ok, yeah, because it was such
Speaker 3: a random thing. But yeah, and then yeah, it was
Speaker 3: just we sort of got sent off as a troop
Speaker 3: of dancers and then got left to our own devices mayhem.
Speaker 3: It was completely mayhem.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Vegas is obviously I've never been, but it's obviously
Speaker 2: such a bizarre place and unique, strange party town, and
Speaker 2: I imagine that's weird for anyone to go to. But
Speaker 2: you were not only were you really young and seventeen,
Speaker 2: but you'd grown up. You've grown up in Wales, but
Speaker 2: you you weren't exposed to much pop music where you're
Speaker 2: popular culture as a as a kid.
Speaker 3: He had a very skewed perception of pop culture, which
Speaker 3: is probably why I was like, Vegas fantastic, because maybe
Speaker 3: if I was more aware of it, as you know,
Speaker 3: a concept that may have gotten it's probably not a
Speaker 3: good idea. But yeah, I just, yeah, completely detached from it.
Speaker 3: And I suppose that was part of the reason why
Speaker 3: I wanted to do it. Wasn't It's like, let's go
Speaker 3: to the epicenter of capitalism?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and everything that home isn't everything?
Speaker 3: Yeah, like the extreme opposite. I still haven't suggested that
Speaker 3: experience to work out what the positives was. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 3: still trying to work that out because it was just
Speaker 3: really weird.
Speaker 2: So with the wall, not the bus, but the wallah,
Speaker 2: obviously obviously your son reckoned, is it as you has
Speaker 2: anyone else like you've not been there's the lady of Yeah,
Speaker 2: and there's a lady, there's.
Speaker 3: The wall lady. Yeah. Well, I mean there's sort of coincidentally,
Speaker 3: I go out less because I've had a bit of
Speaker 3: a child.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you and your hair is different.
Speaker 3: Hair is different. So because obviously club people will be
Speaker 3: the place that you go because that's where all the
Speaker 3: good gigs are. So yeah, it has not. I haven't
Speaker 3: had to stand underneath it too often for people what
Speaker 3: you doing here? So thinks it's been fine. Yeah, it's
Speaker 3: been absolutely fine.
Speaker 2: Growing up you in your home you spoke Welsh and Cornish. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and English is a third Yeah, English as well, but English,
Speaker 2: but not at home you would just speak So your
Speaker 2: dad is a is a he's a Cornish poet. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he's he's from.
Speaker 3: Corn from okay yeah, and then yeah, and he learned,
Speaker 3: i think learn Cornish from a schoolmaster the local primary
Speaker 3: school and then but he's been quite good with languages.
Speaker 2: Are you good with other languages?
Speaker 3: I've not. I've not felt that I'm amazing. I'm definitely
Speaker 3: not someone that would just pick it up. So it's yeah,
Speaker 3: so it's odds to be sort of find yourself in
Speaker 3: quite a specialist subject within linguistics when you're actually not linguists. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't think so anyway, and I've never felt Yeah,
Speaker 3: I definitely don't have any expertise at all.
Speaker 2: How many people speak Cornish fluently?
Speaker 3: I think a few hundreds, and.
Speaker 2: You're one of them. That's quite that's obviously quite a
Speaker 2: special quite intense. It is quite intense, isn't it. But
Speaker 2: I suppose that's why also people maybe presume if you
Speaker 2: know Cornish, if you're one of the two hundred people
Speaker 2: that speaks Cornish fluently, that you would probably also speak
Speaker 2: Spanish and French. And yeah, they'd probably just presume that,
Speaker 2: wouldn't I guess, yeah, because.
Speaker 5: I think it is about I think it's about five
Speaker 5: hundred fluent.
Speaker 3: Speaker, and then it's in the thousands that can converse
Speaker 3: to a certain level. And actually it's growing more, which
Speaker 3: kind of made me feel encouraged me to write in
Speaker 3: Cornish as well.
Speaker 2: See your last Abu, your Deputy solo album from two
Speaker 2: years ago, it was all Welsh except for the last track,
Speaker 2: which was Cornish, and then this new album it's all Cornish. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's hardcore is I love?
Speaker 3: Oh what can you do?
Speaker 5: So you've got to always get to that place, because
Speaker 5: I think that what I learned from was like, try
Speaker 5: and get to the most un compromising position that you can,
Speaker 5: and then you might be in a better position to start, because.
Speaker 3: I wanted to explore the language anyway, and I again
Speaker 3: felt that it would perhaps give me freedom creatively because
Speaker 3: I couldn't imagine it and they weren't a huge amount
Speaker 3: of influences, although I do have it cornish language music influences.
Speaker 3: That was a quite a good place to start and
Speaker 3: then explore and actually and actually take a bit of
Speaker 3: ownership because I think when you're raised with this really
Speaker 3: quite it's not a specialist. Really, it's just a very
Speaker 3: small thing that it's not particulars, not common at all,
Speaker 3: and it makes you can you know, it's definitely at
Speaker 3: times made me feel like I don't fit in anywhere,
Speaker 3: and they think, well, that's probably the good thing that
Speaker 3: you need to use, because that's your tool to explore
Speaker 3: that means, because actually it's a common feeling and I
Speaker 3: don't think it's you know, none of us feel like
Speaker 3: we belong anywhere or feel you know, we'll feel a
Speaker 3: bit weird. So I just thought that was a good
Speaker 3: starting point and to sort of just take just claim
Speaker 3: a bit of ownership over really, And I was like, right,
Speaker 3: if this is my language, I've got to use it
Speaker 3: in the way that I use language and just claim
Speaker 3: a bit of ownership over it. And I don't. And
Speaker 3: it's really scary as well, because I think you're even
Speaker 3: more you know, you feel the fragility of a language
Speaker 3: that five hundred people speak, and you think, oh, that's
Speaker 3: not touch it because it might break. But actually you
Speaker 3: got to do the opposite, because you've got to use
Speaker 3: it and you've got to be brutal with it, and
Speaker 3: you've got to sort of be carefree and really aggressive
Speaker 3: and to try things out and work out patterns. And
Speaker 3: I mean it's like with music, really, you've got to
Speaker 3: sort bash it out and bash it about and then
Speaker 3: you sort of reach somewhere.
Speaker 2: What you've done with look off the new record. I'm
Speaker 2: guessing and this is probably a safe thing to guess.
Speaker 2: I'm presuming this, but you're using it in a way
Speaker 2: that no one probably no one ever has because I
Speaker 2: imagine the other two hundred people speaking in fluenced Cornish
Speaker 2: like your Dad's a poet, and that's quite a traditional
Speaker 2: way to use the language, but you're using it with
Speaker 2: the type of music you're that you make. It's probably
Speaker 2: never been done before, is that Yeah?
Speaker 3: I don't think so, yeah, but it's kind of it's again.
Speaker 3: It's I think the combination of working with Again on
Speaker 3: the records, because I think what she's creates, I think
Speaker 3: his worlds with his layers, and he creates a landscape
Speaker 3: with his production.
Speaker 2: There's a song there called the Cheese Yah.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So it's a phrase I found in a book from
Speaker 3: I think the eighteenth century and is there cheese? Is
Speaker 3: there or isn't there? If there's cheese, bring cheese. If
Speaker 3: there's no cheese, bring what's easy? And I was just like,
Speaker 3: that's amazing. I love cheese. Apologies to all vegans, but
Speaker 3: I really do. And I just thought it was fantastic.
Speaker 3: It was just such a sort of chanty thing. And
Speaker 3: like when I think of Cornish, I think of it
Speaker 3: as a very home, playful language because I don't attach
Speaker 3: it to anything apart from family and community, and so
Speaker 3: it's a lot of fun and silliness and that just
Speaker 3: fitted in brilliantly. And then the verses are all just
Speaker 3: like place names in Cornish and so it's like a
Speaker 3: call to arms about it's finding some cheese.
Speaker 2: And the great thing is because it's sung in Cornish.
Speaker 2: If you were doing that, you couldn't get away with
Speaker 2: is there Cheese because people would be like, this is
Speaker 2: kind of a bit silly, but it sounds kind of
Speaker 2: romantic and beautiful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, done just about cheese.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's just a song called is there Cheese? Yeah,
Speaker 2: which is great. There are bits of when I first
Speaker 2: heard the record, even though I knew it was in Cornish,
Speaker 2: it kind of just sounds like it's got a French
Speaker 2: feel to the record.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: No, we were thinking a lot about likes, but definitely
Speaker 3: strings and arrangements. Definitely we were, and particularly like the
Speaker 3: way it was amazing conceptualizing his records as well, and
Speaker 3: just sort of again, you know, with very little equipment
Speaker 3: because we made it all at home with you know,
Speaker 3: we don't have sense and things like that. Really is
Speaker 3: source sort of quite low fi, but yeah, and I
Speaker 3: think really wanted to create a sort of seventies feel, yeah,
Speaker 3: quite progue and quite Celtic, which I'm really fully embracing
Speaker 3: of and actually a thing. Yes, let's do this because
Speaker 3: obviously I've done know the people's version of what Celtic kids,
Speaker 3: particularly with a lot of the dance, and I think
Speaker 3: that there are better ways.
Speaker 2: I mean, that wasn't authentic Lord of the Dance.
Speaker 3: It's quite exciting as a teenager because it was so
Speaker 3: like rejecting of like sort of the conservative element of
Speaker 3: Irish dance. So like as a teenager, you're like, wow,
Speaker 3: this is like a rock show, which it obviously wasn't,
Speaker 3: but that's how we saw it. Was like, wow, I.
Speaker 2: Remember seeing it on Eurovision. Yeah, when they first showed it.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: River Dances way more classic though. I was in that
Speaker 3: as well, and that was.
Speaker 2: Way ah yeah, no, you're right. Lord of the Dance
Speaker 2: was like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, lots of like the really tacky one, was it?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: It was then well it's like, oh god, there was
Speaker 3: a dancing called strip Jake.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: It was awful. It was just like you sort of
Speaker 3: jig around in a dress and then you like take
Speaker 3: a dress off and you're just like in a crop
Speaker 3: top and shorts. It's awful. It's awful.
Speaker 2: It's like they didn't have that a Eurovision.
Speaker 3: No, they definitely didn't. But it's just so much to
Speaker 3: do with religion and stuff as well, because I think
Speaker 3: there was a lot of that because like the history
Speaker 3: of Rriish dancing is like the reason why people have
Speaker 3: to put their hands by the side is because of
Speaker 3: the Catholic Church. But like you can't use your arms
Speaker 3: because it's too suggestive. That's why it all went into
Speaker 3: the feet. And then like sort of river dance thing
Speaker 3: was this burst of like Catholic suppression going mental and
Speaker 3: everyone going yes, we can do a strip and we
Speaker 3: can just move our arms around and so, and particularly
Speaker 3: like because there was so many teenage girls in that Yeah,
Speaker 3: so I think there was a lot of that. It
Speaker 3: was just sort of went mental, right, So I think
Speaker 3: this is quite interesting sort of context to why that
Speaker 3: show was so tacky. Okay, I'm probably gonna get suit.
Speaker 2: So the last record, yeah, it played a lot on technology. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and it was a protest record in lots of ways.
Speaker 2: How does this one fit well?
Speaker 3: I think that because obviously, while she's a wide spoken language,
Speaker 3: I think there were more variations of expression in that language,
Speaker 3: and so I was quite interested in finding influences that
Speaker 3: perhaps hadn't been as celebrated or utilized particularly post punk
Speaker 3: sort of electronic things that were a lot colder in
Speaker 3: feeling rather than a sort of homely folk thing. I
Speaker 3: think probably there's more frustration in my last album.
Speaker 2: What I was going to say when we met in
Speaker 2: when we met yeah, Cardiff and you were showing us around,
Speaker 2: it felt like that was a time when there was
Speaker 2: a lot of frustration about a lot of the things
Speaker 2: about Cardiff and things that we were talking about, the
Speaker 2: buildings they were knocking down and we went to Butte Town,
Speaker 2: yeah right, and just kind of pointing out the things
Speaker 2: like this could this shouldn't be like this, and this
Speaker 2: should like This record is less like that, is it.
Speaker 3: It's less of a frustrating I think what it was
Speaker 3: as well was that particular. I mean, obviously with everything
Speaker 3: and even like creatively content and you know, in films,
Speaker 3: television and you know, it was a very dystopian album,
Speaker 3: which it was like a sort of wanting to make.
Speaker 3: But I think with this one, I was also I
Speaker 3: think just wanting to be as positive as I possibly
Speaker 3: could as well, because I'm not sure how much it
Speaker 3: adds to the conversation at the moment to be negative,
Speaker 3: particularly creatively because I think, well, for me, it was
Speaker 3: just trying to find a utopia other than going, look,
Speaker 3: how shit everything is. Yeah, because we know everybody like
Speaker 3: really know that. We absolutely know that now. I mean
Speaker 3: it's like two years ago, even like two years down
Speaker 3: the line, we know that way more than we did
Speaker 3: two years ago. So you almost feel that you're sort
Speaker 3: of looking And I felt that Cornish could give me
Speaker 3: that because of its utopian nature and wanting to exist,
Speaker 3: and that it's always drawn artists and the creativity of
Speaker 3: reviving a language and it flourishing like a flower.
Speaker 2: I remember you saying to me about Welsh language music
Speaker 2: actually at the time that people make it for it
Speaker 2: to exist. There's no expectations. If you make a Welsh
Speaker 2: language album, you're not making it to become a millionaire
Speaker 2: or successful in any way. You're not trying to get
Speaker 2: on an advert for a car. You're just making it
Speaker 2: so it exists and it's an artifact. And I guess
Speaker 2: that's even more the case in Cornish. It's kind of
Speaker 2: even or it's at least exactly the same, I guess definitely.
Speaker 3: And I think that that's such a really powerful sentiment
Speaker 3: to attach yourself to as an artist as well, and
Speaker 3: to remember because I think it's a really great motivational
Speaker 3: point as a starting point, that you're making something because
Speaker 3: it doesn't exist, which I think, you know again, you know,
Speaker 3: obviously minority cultures can do that. There's this every child, Yeah,
Speaker 3: you're creating. You feel more that you're creating the narrative
Speaker 3: than perhaps you would do in a humongous narrative, and
Speaker 3: I think it's just a very I think it's a
Speaker 3: really really wise thing to remember as well when you're
Speaker 3: making I think.
Speaker 2: A lot of young bands that I speak to are
Speaker 2: who aren't who are even making something kind of a
Speaker 2: bit more commercial and it's in English and it's kind
Speaker 2: of maybe it's just quite standard in its structure and
Speaker 2: its sound. I just think more and more people feel
Speaker 2: that as well. Like the idea of being David Bowie
Speaker 2: in the modern age when the music industry doesn't have
Speaker 2: that kind of structure and that's kind of support and
Speaker 2: money anymore. I think it's quite I remember when I
Speaker 2: used to try and be in bands when I was
Speaker 2: in school and stuff. The idea was always like, oh,
Speaker 2: we're going to try and get a record deal and
Speaker 2: become famous and now when I speak to two young
Speaker 2: bands that's not even on the right to know that
Speaker 2: it's not the case. An, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Think so much more. Diy. You're absolutely right, so that
Speaker 3: spirit's there everywhere. But I think that's what makes it
Speaker 3: interesting as well, isn't it, because it actually puts everyone
Speaker 3: an equal footing, Yeah, which is really exciting.
Speaker 2: And it makes it fun again. If you completely reject
Speaker 2: the idea that you're going to become it's going to
Speaker 2: become your job even then you can just enjoy it
Speaker 2: for what it is in the same way that people
Speaker 2: enjoy yoga or you.
Speaker 3: And I find that I don't know obviously my only
Speaker 3: experience really is with bands in Wales, but I find
Speaker 3: younger musicians so incredibly hard working as well, Like I
Speaker 3: think that that, and I think it's because they've grown
Speaker 3: up in a harsher climate as well. I just find
Speaker 3: them really a lot more do it yourself, like you say,
Speaker 3: but I think that yeah, they yeah, like you said,
Speaker 3: they would never expect anyone, I mean, they wouldn't even expect
Speaker 3: to at any point have a tool manager for example,
Speaker 3: like it just for anybody now, like anybody making music,
Speaker 3: which is really positive creatively is positive, isn't it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think so.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: There's also a track on the album called computer Yeah,
Speaker 2: which is obviously about technology. Yeah, am I right? Thinking
Speaker 2: it's about that kind of love hate relationship we had
Speaker 2: with technology. We can't kind of live with hate our phones,
Speaker 2: but we kind of can't. Yeah, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2: How are you with technology generally?
Speaker 3: I just have definitely overused my phone, do you? Oh god?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Awful. But I think I just wanted because again, like
Speaker 3: because Cornish again, I sort of wanted to discuss something modern.
Speaker 3: I think that was the idea really, and also the
Speaker 3: fact that there's I'm not a linguist, so I don't
Speaker 3: know how this works, but there are computers that can
Speaker 3: read manuscripts and they sort of detect it and they
Speaker 3: can help with forming. I don't know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: It is like an AI thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well no, it's not as like older than that,
Speaker 3: because this happened in the eighties with Cornish. So I
Speaker 3: just wanted to talk about this technological influence on the
Speaker 3: language and it sort of predicts phrase like turn afraid,
Speaker 3: like sentences and things like that. Okay, I don't know
Speaker 3: what I'm talking about, so I apologize to any linguist's
Speaker 3: listening to me, going what the hell is that? But
Speaker 3: I just wanted to talk about that, just just bring
Speaker 3: a sort of modern context, because I was aware that
Speaker 3: I was mentally somewhere between the fifth and the seventeenth
Speaker 3: century when I was making this album. So I just
Speaker 3: really fast, like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Right, you know, this
Speaker 3: is all a little bit Middle Ages and Age of
Speaker 3: the Saints. So I think, you know, we really need
Speaker 3: to bring this back after speed and the fact that
Speaker 3: you know, technology had been part of the language and everything.
Speaker 3: So I just wanted to and yeah and just that feeling,
Speaker 3: because I think there may have been some heated discussions
Speaker 3: about using that sort of technology with with the language,
Speaker 3: and I thought, well, you know, you can't live with it,
Speaker 3: you can't live without it, and you're infuriated by it,
Speaker 3: but you're also glad that it's happened. Type of thing.
Speaker 3: This sort of unrequited love relationship is very complicated, and
Speaker 3: I think that's how we emotionally feel about technology. And
Speaker 3: I thought it would just yeah, and I sort of
Speaker 3: I definitely wanted the Cornish language to be having a
Speaker 3: conversation with a computer as well. Not to be left
Speaker 3: out because everyone else is having a conversation with it.
Speaker 2: There is that idea, isn't there That that Cornwall and
Speaker 2: Wales as well, that kind of recurring gag that everything
Speaker 2: is still fifty years behind, and that kind of idea.
Speaker 2: When you think of Cornwall, you think of it being
Speaker 2: a little cottages and seaside towns and or very quaint
Speaker 2: and fishing boats and things, and of course they do
Speaker 2: have computers there.
Speaker 3: Well. I think that most of the UK's Internet goes
Speaker 3: from underneath Cornwall. Yeah, so I think actually is quite.
Speaker 2: A it's on a bed of technology.
Speaker 3: I think so. Yeah, as well as having I think
Speaker 3: like ninety nine percent of the world's what would you
Speaker 3: call them in English? I know it's mona Welsh. What
Speaker 3: do you call it? You know, like elements in rock,
Speaker 3: like sediment? No, but you know, like it's got ten
Speaker 3: it's got oh yeah, minerals, minerals sorry, okay, minerals and yeah,
Speaker 3: and again you know the sort of the industrial heritage
Speaker 3: of Cornwall as well, which obviously leads onto computers and
Speaker 3: things as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, your son is only two, right, so this is
Speaker 2: obviously not something you need to worry about yet. But
Speaker 2: have you thought about when they'd be allowed a phone
Speaker 2: and things like that. I've got some nephews and nieces
Speaker 2: and they're all getting to the age where they want phones.
Speaker 2: One of them. Two of them have got phones, and
Speaker 2: one of them is on Instagram.
Speaker 3: Oh I know.
Speaker 2: She's only but she's it's quite she's quite sweet on it.
Speaker 2: But I think if it was my child, that fill
Speaker 2: me with pure dread.
Speaker 3: And it's weird because I think it's really interesting when
Speaker 3: you see my little brother's fifteen and he is a
Speaker 3: different person. It's amazing, Like he's a different character on.
Speaker 2: The online online presence.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just not the same person that talks to me.
Speaker 3: It's like wow, because that's really fascinating. I think for
Speaker 3: people that have been born into having personas.
Speaker 2: Yeah, weird.
Speaker 3: I don't know how you avoid it, really. I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm sure there's a good reason not to be on
Speaker 3: it or encourage your children to be on it, definitely,
Speaker 3: And I don't know what the answer is. And I'm
Speaker 3: actually not going to be on any kind of high
Speaker 3: horse about it at all.
Speaker 2: It's tough, isn't it. And also because you also don't
Speaker 2: want them to like you can't really like say, no,
Speaker 2: you're not doing that because it's part of the world now.
Speaker 3: And also like they give kids tablets in primary school
Speaker 3: and stuff, So how do you differentiate between having a
Speaker 3: tablet and not be able to look on YouTube? I'm
Speaker 3: so glad he's two.
Speaker 2: Yeah, by the time he's ten, maybe there won't be
Speaker 2: any internet anymore. Imagine that. Imagine if it was all
Speaker 2: just a fad and it.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I'm sort of I still feel like it
Speaker 3: might be. Yeah, it's really odd.
Speaker 2: It's still quite early, isn't it, Because you.
Speaker 3: Might that you invest more and more of yourself into
Speaker 3: it or you're like, oh your time at least, not
Speaker 3: more of yourself. Really, that's the weird things. I think
Speaker 3: you sort of after using the incidents, particularly social media
Speaker 3: for a few years, you sort of start getting to
Speaker 3: that point of like, you know, you're not revealing your
Speaker 3: meals and you know as much as perhaps you did
Speaker 3: initially go oh, you know, I can tell my friends
Speaker 3: and you know far away what I've had for breakfast
Speaker 3: or whatever. It's like it's changed a lot, hasn't it.
Speaker 3: People have become more savvy to.
Speaker 5: It, but.
Speaker 2: Do use social media a lot.
Speaker 3: I'm awful I'm terrible. I really well. I think Mike
Speaker 3: excuse really is because especially with Twitter for me, because
Speaker 3: I think when you have more sort of lesser, less
Speaker 3: popular interest, maybe it's a really useful tool for finding
Speaker 3: people that have the community. And I do still find
Speaker 3: that because I kind of generally don't see well people
Speaker 3: do retweet awful things and you're like, oh god, I
Speaker 3: can almost blank that sort of stuff out because it's
Speaker 3: just so.
Speaker 2: So, what ones are you on Facebook?
Speaker 3: I'm not on Facebook?
Speaker 2: No, I'm not on Facebook. I ever did you ever join?
Speaker 2: But you canceled? You canceled it? Did you? My wife
Speaker 2: tried to do that recently because I never I never
Speaker 2: joined that one. I've never I've never tasted all of
Speaker 2: it's got to offer, so I've never had.
Speaker 3: To quit it. It really doesn't offer very much.
Speaker 2: But my wife tried to quit and she said that
Speaker 2: when you try and cancel your your membership, that's not
Speaker 2: the right word.
Speaker 3: Count.
Speaker 2: It starts to go through all the people that you're
Speaker 2: friends with. Say if you're like Amy's going to miss you,
Speaker 2: and it shows you a picture of Amy and it
Speaker 2: says John's going to miss you. To try and.
Speaker 3: Kind of make you then like, you're not sure if
Speaker 3: you've deleted it, and of ages, I thought I deleted it.
Speaker 3: But you can't delete this, like you've got to get
Speaker 3: down to a little bit further down and then you
Speaker 3: delete it because you can, like you can just de
Speaker 3: activate it. Yeah, deactivate and then reactivate.
Speaker 2: They don't want you to leave.
Speaker 3: Did she manage to leave in the end?
Speaker 2: No, she's still on it. She's still does.
Speaker 3: She really hate it? Just like what am I doing
Speaker 3: on here?
Speaker 2: I think I think when you get to a certain
Speaker 2: age as well, it's kind of it's useful, isn't it.
Speaker 2: If you've if you've been traveling, or you've met people
Speaker 2: from out you can keep in touch with people. So
Speaker 2: I think she kind of likes it for that. But
Speaker 2: having not been on it myself, everyone I know, they
Speaker 2: always say I've got one friend in particular and here
Speaker 2: say oh so and so got that or whatever. I say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: how did you like? Oh did you speak to them?
Speaker 2: And they'll always say no, No, I am on Facebook.
Speaker 2: I'm not on there much and I never go on there.
Speaker 2: He says it all the time, and I never go
Speaker 2: on there. But no one's got a good word to
Speaker 2: say about.
Speaker 3: Face at all. I think it makes everyone really depressed, isn't.
Speaker 2: It Everyone's down? I know I've never met someone who
Speaker 2: says I'm on Facebook and I love it.
Speaker 3: No, I don't think so. Yeah, hopefully. I don't think
Speaker 3: the world would be terrible if there wasn't any social media. No,
Speaker 3: I actually think it might be better.
Speaker 2: But it's mainly Twitter for you, is it. It's that
Speaker 2: the a key one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just again, yeah, it's just for special and also
Speaker 3: because we don't have proper we don't have independent broadcasters
Speaker 3: in Wales. And actually it's a really good way of
Speaker 3: getting news and there's a few, like there's a really
Speaker 3: great podcast called Desolation Radio that's really good and like
Speaker 3: informing you about what the Welsh government does, for example,
Speaker 3: and what it doesn't. And I think that yeah, when
Speaker 3: you live someone like Whales and actually you don't get
Speaker 3: any information about anything. And I think the like the
Speaker 3: Whales online is run by the Mirror Group, so there's
Speaker 3: no sort of local scrutiny of anything, right, it's quite vital.
Speaker 3: So you know you can follow people from universities whatever,
Speaker 3: or you know independent people doing blogs or whatever, and
Speaker 3: you actually get a bit more information about what people
Speaker 3: are up to than you would from anywhere, like you
Speaker 3: wouldn't see it on Telly.
Speaker 2: There are definitely good things about it. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: I think it's I'm guilty of it myself. I'm very
Speaker 2: easy to get on your high horse about whatso of
Speaker 2: course at it, but there are at these great things
Speaker 2: to it as well.
Speaker 3: There's probably you know, I quite like the escapism of Instagram.
Speaker 3: I think it can be and it is pure escapism.
Speaker 3: It's almost I find that it's like replaced sort of
Speaker 3: women's magazines really on anything. It's like, oh, there's a
Speaker 3: nice picture of someone in nice clothes from the high Street.
Speaker 3: It's like it's kind of it release, you know, it's
Speaker 3: kind of like high Street as rational catalog.
Speaker 2: So what's You've made a whole album in Welsh? Now
Speaker 2: you've made a whole one in a Cornish What would
Speaker 2: be your next one?
Speaker 3: I don't know yet because I didn't realize I was
Speaker 3: going to make a Cornish album. But I think it's
Speaker 3: trying to get to sort of I think he's trying
Speaker 3: to get to a point of freedom, and I don't
Speaker 3: know what that would mean next.
Speaker 2: Do you think you could make one in English?
Speaker 3: I know you know, I have. I've thought about that,
Speaker 3: like is it not though, yeah, I'll definitely do that.
Speaker 3: But it's crossed my mind that I have three languages
Speaker 3: and you know, I use the three of them, and
Speaker 3: what is the context with It's quite interesting because you
Speaker 3: have these sort of three perspectives and what are are
Speaker 3: they in relationship to the other, which I'm quite interested in,
Speaker 3: and particularly because I think as well, you know, you've
Speaker 3: got at the end of the day, you are you
Speaker 3: sort of You've just got to pursue your own muse
Speaker 3: and I have no idea. I've just I just don't
Speaker 3: know or no or no language at all. I have
Speaker 3: no idea. I was because I think I was quite
Speaker 3: interested in not using language at all, because of that's
Speaker 3: the point I was trying to get to in a way, Yes,
Speaker 3: that it was, and actually again it's it's to do
Speaker 3: with the sort of trying to find what your like,
Speaker 3: what your musical voice is, which is actually quite different.
Speaker 3: And I think that's why I've definitely used Welsh and Corners,
Speaker 3: because I figured that they would be a tool for
Speaker 3: me to find it, because they're the thing that, like,
Speaker 3: if I'm using my voice, that would be the most
Speaker 3: instinctive thing to do, and I've absolutely for myself felt
Speaker 3: so much more me than I've been able to be before.
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