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Speaker 1: In the last days, we believe finally the case of

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Speaker 1: the Delphi Bridge double murder, where Liberty and Abby were

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Speaker 1: led to their death, had totally been solved. But little

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Speaker 1: did we know that in the last hours there would

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Speaker 1: be reverberations from the arrest of Richard Allen. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to this. We know Richard Allen worked as a

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Speaker 1: licensed pharmacy take at this CVS here in Delphi, but

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Speaker 1: many continue to ask and wonder how a man now

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Speaker 1: charged with two counts of murder managed to stay under

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Speaker 1: the radar in a town of about three thousand people.

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Speaker 1: Those who live in Delphi are still trying to cope

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Speaker 1: with news that Richard Allen is the man police say

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Speaker 1: murdered Abby Williams and Libby German. I mean if they

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Speaker 1: after Halloween. It's a little eerie and tense. In downtown

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Speaker 1: Delphi on the Square business is like the office tavern

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Speaker 1: put up a new sign on their door reading no

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Speaker 1: media allowed. They weren't the only ones. Country Hair also

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Speaker 1: had a sign off camera. One business owner told thirteen News,

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Speaker 1: the community is still in shock. You were just hearing

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Speaker 1: from our friends at WTHR well after the arrest of

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Speaker 1: the local pharmacy tech. Everyone wondered, why him, Why now?

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Speaker 1: What do they know that we don't know? Well? In

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Speaker 1: the last hours over objection, a judge has unsealed a

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Speaker 1: probable cause affidavit that goes with a warrant for search

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Speaker 1: and arrest, and it is full of a trove of

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Speaker 1: evidence pointing the finger at the father, the husband, the

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Speaker 1: pharmacy tech. Alan listen critical evidence that infamous video after

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Speaker 1: by fourteen year old Libby German on her cell phone.

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Speaker 1: Police say Libby was rolling as Alan walked behind her

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Speaker 1: and thirteen year old friend Abby Williams on that bridge.

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Speaker 1: According to documents, one of the girls is heard mentioning

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Speaker 1: a gun as the man approaches, then orders them down

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Speaker 1: the hill. In that hunting audio from our friends at

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Speaker 1: ABC and more from w DRB. The probable cause Affidavid

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Speaker 1: says Abby and Libby were found dead in the woods

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Speaker 1: less than a quarter mile from the moon on High

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Speaker 1: Bridge and there was a forty caliber unspent round found

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Speaker 1: between the victim's bodies less than two feet away from

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Speaker 1: Libby German. Investigators first spoke to Richard Allen back in

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Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, and at that time Allan told investigators he

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Speaker 1: was on the trails by the Moon on high Bridge

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Speaker 1: between one thirty and three thirty on the day of

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Speaker 1: the murders. The PC did not say why investigators spoke

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Speaker 1: to him back in twenty seventeen. The girls bodies were

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Speaker 1: found the next day, along with other items, including an

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Speaker 1: unfired bullet which was found between the victims. Between the

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Speaker 1: witness statements and further evidence, police believe the man in

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Speaker 1: that victim's video is Richard Allen. Last month, police recovered

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Speaker 1: a pistol from Alan's Delphi home. The state Police lab

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Speaker 1: later determined that unfired bullet had cycled through Alan's gun.

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Speaker 1: Alan denied his involvement in the girls murders during a

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Speaker 1: later interview, and on October thirty first this year, he

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Speaker 1: was arrested and charged based on the evidence recovered from

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Speaker 1: our friends also WHR and that's the tip of the

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Speaker 1: iceberg from what we're learning from this PC affidavit, A

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Speaker 1: probable cause affidavit, I mean, see Grayson, this is crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation

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Speaker 1: and Sirius XM one eleven. What is a probable cause affidavit? Well,

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Speaker 1: it's legal lingo. What it means is you get an investigator,

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Speaker 1: a police officer, a detective familiar with the case to

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Speaker 1: go before a magistrate. You can even do it over

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Speaker 1: the phone if you have to. That detective or whoever

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Speaker 1: you're affiant who is swearing under oath for an affidavit.

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Speaker 1: That person tells the judge of the magistrate what they

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Speaker 1: know and what they know in this case led to

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Speaker 1: an arrest and a search warrant. Now there's so much

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Speaker 1: to go through, but we're finally getting answers. Who, what, where? Wife? When?

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Speaker 1: Why is Richard Allen, a seemingly loving husband and father

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Speaker 1: now behind bars for the murder of two little girls?

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Speaker 1: Why is he charged with felony murderer? Well, it all

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Speaker 1: seems to hinge on this bullet a shell found about

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Speaker 1: two feet from the dead bodies between the two little girls.

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Speaker 1: Joining me and all Star palel to make sense of

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Speaker 1: what we know right now. But first I'm gonna go

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Speaker 1: straight out to Alexis McAdams, Fox News National correspondent. You

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Speaker 1: can find her on Instant and Twitter, Alexis McAdams TV. Alexis,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. You happened to be

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Speaker 1: the first reporter to sit down and speak to lead

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Speaker 1: detectives on the del Fi case. And what I'm reading

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Speaker 1: in this affidavit, this PC probacause affidavit is a blockbuster.

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Speaker 1: First of all, who opposed releasing the information? Police didn't

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Speaker 1: want it released, But at the last court hearing they

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Speaker 1: said that they were fine with it coming out and

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Speaker 1: that they didn't think that it would put their case

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Speaker 1: in jeopardy. But before they had anybody in custody, they

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Speaker 1: never wanted any of the information out there. And they

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Speaker 1: still haven't released publicly how the girls were killed. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're still sitting on evidence. But we're hearing a lot

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Speaker 1: about this shell that was quote cycled through Richard Allen

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Speaker 1: sig sour. What do we know? Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: Steve Brown, the Indiana State Police laboratory determined the unspent

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Speaker 1: round has been cycled through Richard Allen's sigsour P. Twenty six.

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Speaker 1: Retired IMPD Detective Sergeant Greg Arkins tells us when a

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Speaker 1: round or shellcasing is ejected from a firearm that leaves

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Speaker 1: distinct marks even if it isn't fired. Whenever a person

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Speaker 1: unloads a gun that's loaded with a round in the chamber,

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Speaker 1: then when you pull back on the slide, the extractor

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Speaker 1: grabs a hold, and the extractor is made of hard metal,

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Speaker 1: where the shellcasing is made of slightly softer metal, so

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Speaker 1: it leaves very unique microscopic scratch striations on the showcasing.

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Speaker 1: Reliable is this information? I'm not a firearms examiner, but

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Speaker 1: from my experience I found it's like, Okay, let's break

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Speaker 1: that down and put it in regular people talk. A

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Speaker 1: striation is simply a scratch. I don't know why they

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Speaker 1: make it sound so difficult. It's a scratch, but it's

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Speaker 1: a very important scratch because this scratch destriation is like

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Speaker 1: a finger print joining me. Jose Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics,

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Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,

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Speaker 1: starving Hit a new series Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan.

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, let's just explain it as simply as possible.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be confusing. Okay, you take the

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Speaker 1: known bullet, I eat the bullet that's found right there

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Speaker 1: between Abby and Libby, right between them, and you get

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Speaker 1: what you believe to be the murder weapon, and you

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Speaker 1: fire a bullet from the murder weapon. You take the

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Speaker 1: bullet you just fired, you put it under a microscope

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Speaker 1: right beside the one you find at the crime scene,

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Speaker 1: and you look through the microscope and you turn them

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Speaker 1: around and low and behold. No other gun in the

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Speaker 1: world will make those marks. Explain why? Yeah, and there's

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Speaker 1: a real important distinction, your Nancy, this round was not fired. Right.

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Speaker 1: If you could get back to why why the markings

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Speaker 1: on the two bullets are like a fingerprint, That's the question.

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Speaker 1: They use the term striation, and striation merely means line,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know why they can't say that more simply. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I just said that, is this an echo chamber? No offense,

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Speaker 1: Jo Scott Morgan, but Cheryl McCollum, could you help Joe

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Speaker 1: Scott talk in regular people talk? Just the question, how

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Speaker 1: do you make a comparison? I spent two minutes asking

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Speaker 1: this question, how do you make the fingerprint comparison? They're

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Speaker 1: gonna take that weapon, they're gonna fire it. Did I'm

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Speaker 1: not just say that, I know, I'm saying how they're

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Speaker 1: going to compare it. They took the actual weapon, they

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Speaker 1: fired it in a chamber. They compared both the striations

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Speaker 1: side by side, so those scratches line up. So it

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Speaker 1: might be three tall scratches, two short scratches, and another

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Speaker 1: tall scratch. They're gonna line up perfectly. So the way

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Speaker 1: they do that is in side that weapon, they carve

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Speaker 1: out these grooves, and the reason they do that is

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Speaker 1: for the bullet to spin. And if you think about

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Speaker 1: a football being thrown, the tighter that spiral is the

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Speaker 1: factor that ball goes and the more accurate that ball flies. Now,

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Speaker 1: see you're missing, you're missing the point here. They did

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Speaker 1: not have to fire the west side again. Yes it is, Jackie,

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Speaker 1: Give me a second. Okay, we were talking about why

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Speaker 1: a gun leaves a mark on a bullet. Okay, when

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Speaker 1: a gun is made, think of it in the factory.

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Speaker 1: It's hot and metal and it dries. Okay, they polished

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Speaker 1: the outside of the gun, it's all beautiful. The inside

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Speaker 1: of the barrel is not polished, and there are little

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Speaker 1: dots and marks and imperfections on the inside of that gun.

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Speaker 1: When that bullet pearls itself down the barrel, metal or metal,

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Speaker 1: it makes a mark on the bullet. And only one

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Speaker 1: gun has those defective marks on the inside. Does that

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Speaker 1: make sense, Jackie? And so the bullet is branded scratched

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Speaker 1: based on the inside of the barrel. Prime Stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Now as Joe Scott so eagerly wants to

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Speaker 1: tell us, and he's right, the bullet found between libbyan

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Speaker 1: Abbey wasn't fired. It had been quote cycled through rich

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Speaker 1: Allan's gun. Now Joe Scott explain how those marks can

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Speaker 1: be on the shell having never been fired. There's two

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Speaker 1: components inside of the slide of this weapon, this sixth hour.

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Speaker 1: They're called ejector and extractor. The extractor grabs the base

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Speaker 1: of the bullet, and like was said in the clip,

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Speaker 1: this is soft metal, so you have these metal own

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Speaker 1: metal contacts and they are unique to this weapon. So

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Speaker 1: as this kind of claw reaches out and grabs the

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Speaker 1: base of this round, it pulls it back. Well, as

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Speaker 1: it's pulling it back, the ejector makes marks on the

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Speaker 1: outer surface of this round and it throws it out

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Speaker 1: to the side. You see this in movies a lot

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Speaker 1: where people in a very menacing way, a very intimidating way,

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Speaker 1: will pull that slide back in order to cycle the weapon.

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Speaker 1: It's what they're referring to where they eject around and

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Speaker 1: put a new one in there, okay, And it's kind

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Speaker 1: of a menacing action to me when you see this.

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Speaker 1: What would be the purpose of ejecting a live round

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Speaker 1: and reinjecting a fresh round? And so that's what you're

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Speaker 1: doing with Those marks are unique to this six hour

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Speaker 1: P two two six. One thing that people might not

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Speaker 1: know about the P two two six guests who famously

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Speaker 1: uses this weapon. The Navy Seals have used this for

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Speaker 1: years and years. It's kind of a status thing. He

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Speaker 1: apparently bought this in like two thousand and one. I believe,

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Speaker 1: you know, Cheryl will call him. I'm thinking about what

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Speaker 1: Jesscott Morgan just said about ejecting a bullet and putting

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Speaker 1: another one in. Can't you just see him doing that

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Speaker 1: to scare the girls? Well, I think we could almost

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Speaker 1: know in our heart what he did, because if he

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Speaker 1: had forgotten that he had already you know, racked that

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Speaker 1: gun back. When he does it a second time, when

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Speaker 1: that thing ejakes, it goes to the right and backed

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Speaker 1: just a little bit. So you're talking about like a foot.

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Speaker 1: So back to me, if that bullet is between victim

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Speaker 1: one and victim two, it would appeared to me that

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Speaker 1: he was pointing that gun at victim one, and I

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Speaker 1: believe that they were killed and they fell where they fell,

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Speaker 1: and as fate would have it, that bullet was right

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Speaker 1: there between them where he had obviously unintentionally left it

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Speaker 1: when he basically re racked a sig. What an idiot

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Speaker 1: to leave it there. And to you, doctor Angela Arnold,

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Speaker 1: for now psychologrists joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction

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Speaker 1: at Angela Arnold MD dot com, Doctor Angie, he wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have reracked if the girls were already dead. I guarantee

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Speaker 1: you he re racked. And you usually think of reracking

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Speaker 1: a shotgun, but as Jeff Scott described it, pulling out

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Speaker 1: the chamber and putting a bullet in, and by doing that,

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Speaker 1: one of the bullets came out, the bullet that was

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Speaker 1: left behind, and by putting it in the chamber and

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Speaker 1: racking it out, it left a mark. But my question,

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Speaker 1: do you, doctor Angie, is the attempt to scare the

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Speaker 1: girls even more to overpower them. He was trying to

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Speaker 1: kidnap them and they wouldn't go along with it, and

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Speaker 1: he did that to scare them. Wow. And that very act,

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Speaker 1: that one thing is what got him caught I can't

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Speaker 1: even imagine how scared those little girls must have been,

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Speaker 1: can you, Nancy, No, I really can't. I really cannot

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Speaker 1: imagine how they were feeling. For those of you just

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Speaker 1: joining us Bottleshell in the release of documents joining me

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Speaker 1: Alexis McAdams, Fox News national correspondent who has been in

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Speaker 1: Delphi throughout this ordeal? What do you believe Alexis led

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Speaker 1: the judge to finally unseal this problem caused affidavit. I

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Speaker 1: think all the pressure and Nancy that was put on

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Speaker 1: the judge and on Carroll County prosecutor into Sohole County

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Speaker 1: by the media. There were so many people that were

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Speaker 1: calling and asking for information and kept asking why why

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Speaker 1: can't you put it out there? And there were some

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Speaker 1: people that were saying that one of the reasons they

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Speaker 1: didn't want this out there because Richard Allen's family had

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Speaker 1: been given so many death threats, and that more specifically,

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Speaker 1: they were going to have some information in there that

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Speaker 1: let the public know that there was not just Richard

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Speaker 1: Allen that was part of this, that they believed there

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Speaker 1: was a second suspect. Wow, Alexis the possibility there's a

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Speaker 1: second co defendant, And as of right now, everything's leading

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Speaker 1: to Richard Allan alone that we know us, particularly this

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Speaker 1: shell that matches up to his SIG's sour. And not

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Speaker 1: only that, they tightened the news by questioning him about

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Speaker 1: the gun. Take a listen to Bob Seagal. He told

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Speaker 1: investigators he never allowed anyone to use or borrow that firearm.

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Speaker 1: Investigators sent that gun to the Indiana State Police Rime

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Speaker 1: Lab for analysis, and it was determined the unspent round

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Speaker 1: located within two feet of Libby's body had been cycled

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Speaker 1: through Richard M. Allen's gun. Then, on October twenty sixth,

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Speaker 1: State police again spoke to Allan, and when asked about

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Speaker 1: the unspent bullet, he did not have an explanation of

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Speaker 1: why the bullet was found between the bodies. He again

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Speaker 1: admitted that he was on the trail, but denied knowing

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Speaker 1: Abbey or Libby and denied any involvement in their murders.

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Speaker 1: One day later, Allen was charged with two counts of murder,

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Speaker 1: joining me former Deputy States Attorney in Calvert County, former

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Speaker 1: Assistant States Attorney and Prince George specializing and child abe

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Speaker 1: sex offenses, and homicide fran Longwell fran They really got

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Speaker 1: him good right there, Fran. Because normally in court or

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Speaker 1: in statement, as you ask a defendant, well what about

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Speaker 1: this gun, and they'll say, oh, yeah, it was stolen.

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Speaker 1: I did not have it at the time with the murders,

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Speaker 1: that I didn't have that, you know, trying to distance

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Speaker 1: themselves from the weapon at the time of the incident.

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Speaker 1: Or they'll say, oh, yeah, you know what, I lost it.

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Speaker 1: I had it in my car and I had my

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Speaker 1: car unlocked, and blah blah blah, blah blah, some way

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Speaker 1: to suggest they did not have the gun in their

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Speaker 1: possession at the time of the incident. But they go

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Speaker 1: back when they're honing in on this gun, they go

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Speaker 1: back and he tells them, oh, no, I never let

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Speaker 1: anybody else use or borrow this weapon. I keep it

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Speaker 1: in my possession. He's dead in the water. I think

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Speaker 1: he totally hung himself on that. I think at this

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Speaker 1: point he may not know that they had that casey,

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Speaker 1: that they had it the bullet recovered from the scene.

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Speaker 1: He might not have known that. Oh that's smart. Yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: So he's going to say, even like in the beginning,

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Speaker 1: he had missed he's on he misshs out there, or

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Speaker 1: he admits he was on the walkway, he admits that

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Speaker 1: he sees these three girls. He has to admit to

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Speaker 1: those things to put him. He knows he's there, He's

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Speaker 1: got himself put there. But he could explain away why

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Speaker 1: these people thought it was him. I think he just

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Speaker 1: didn't know that the bullet was recovered. So Cheryl mccollin

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Speaker 1: joining me, forensic expert, founder of the Cold Case Research Institute.

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Speaker 1: You can find her at coldcase crimes dot org on

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Speaker 1: at cold Case Tips. Cheryl, that is so insightful what

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Speaker 1: she fran Longwell just said. And another reason we're saying,

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Speaker 1: why didn't you arrest him earlier? You knew about him,

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Speaker 1: you talked to him right after the incident, because without

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Speaker 1: that bullet being tracked back to his gun, and he

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Speaker 1: didn't know it was there, he didn't realize he had

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Speaker 1: left it. I bet you anything, if he had realized

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Speaker 1: what he had done by leaving that evidence there, he

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Speaker 1: would have long gotten rid of that gun most likely.

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Speaker 1: But Nancy, again, I think it's important for us to

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Speaker 1: talk about we don't know how they were killed. Yet

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Speaker 1: it might not have been with a gun, So he

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Speaker 1: had no reason to think the gun was involved at all,

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Speaker 1: other than to control them or intimidate them. They could

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Speaker 1: have been killed with another weapon, because to our knowledge,

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Speaker 1: nobody claimed to hear any gunshots or anything like. Do

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Speaker 1: not believe they were shot, Sheryl McCallum. I think you're right,

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Speaker 1: because we'd have an actual bullet that had been fired

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Speaker 1: from the gun, but we don't have that. We have

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Speaker 1: this one that was cycled through. It wasn't fired, that's right.

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Speaker 1: But even if he racked it and fired again or

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Speaker 1: you know later, he couldn't have collected those bullets as well,

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Speaker 1: and so he would have probably gotten rid of that gun.

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Speaker 1: But to me, you know, you can't out run a gun,

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Speaker 1: but you can might, you know, try to outrun a knife.

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Speaker 1: It seems like to me that was for control, to

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Speaker 1: get them to do what he wanted them to do. So,

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, how do you think it played out? Why

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Speaker 1: was this shell found on the ground between the two girls.

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Speaker 1: My suspicion, Nancy at this point is that when they

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Speaker 1: went out there, I don't know that they found a

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Speaker 1: round while the bodies were there. They went over the

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Speaker 1: scene with a fine tooth comb and one of the

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Speaker 1: things and Cheryl can attested this. One of the things

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Speaker 1: if you have like leaves on the ground, particularly in

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Speaker 1: a wooded area, those bullets will roll around many times.

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Speaker 1: And they probably went over the area with a metal detector,

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Speaker 1: I would imagine, and they could have found it down

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Speaker 1: there specifically. And the orientation of the scene is very

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Speaker 1: very interesting because there would have been other forensic evidence,

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Speaker 1: perhaps blood, that was surrounding this particular area. Remember they're

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Speaker 1: talking that this bullet is in very very close proximity

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Speaker 1: to both these two babies bodies. So back to my question,

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Speaker 1: how do you think it played out? How do you

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Speaker 1: do that jump in? Yeah? How did shell land there?

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Speaker 1: What do you think he was doing? I think he

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Speaker 1: was either scaring them, intimidating them, or playing something out

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Speaker 1: in his head while they laid there. I think this

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Speaker 1: was for his own gratification. And like you and I

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Speaker 1: have talked about before, there is no way Libby decided

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Speaker 1: to videotate somebody from a distance. Something overtly happened for

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Speaker 1: her to do that. Well, not only is the shell

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Speaker 1: leading directly to his SIG two twenty six, he places

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Speaker 1: himself there, does the name Scott Peterson at Ringabell. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I know there has been a documentary on cable TV

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Speaker 1: claiming Peterson's innocent. I know that, and I know I'm

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Speaker 1: in it, and I know they burn me at the

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Speaker 1: steak you know what, have at it. He places himself

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Speaker 1: at the scene. Peterson placed himself at the marina and

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Speaker 1: the San Francisco Bay. The day Lacy goes missing, her

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Speaker 1: body is found out in the San Francisco Bay. It

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Speaker 1: washes up. Same thing here Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: Alan places himself there at the bridge, wearing the same

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Speaker 1: outfit that's in the video in the picture the girls took.

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Speaker 1: Take a Listen to our friens a WTHR. Last month,

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Speaker 1: on October thirteenth, investigators interviewed Alan again. According to the PC,

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Speaker 1: Alan again said he was on the moon on High

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Speaker 1: Bridge to watch the fish. He said he parked his

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Speaker 1: car on the side of an old building and was

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Speaker 1: wearing blue jeans and a blue or black Carthart jacket

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Speaker 1: with a hood. Investigators say that matches the clothes worn

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Speaker 1: by the man who Libby captured in this video. On

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Speaker 1: the day of the murder last month, Alan also told

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Speaker 1: investigators he owns firearms. That same day, police executed a

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Speaker 1: search warrant at his Delphi home and recovered jackets, boots, knives,

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Speaker 1: and firearms, including a sig Soour Model P two twenty

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Speaker 1: six forty caliber pistol. He doesn't just place himself there,

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Speaker 1: and of all things, did I understand that correctly, Alexis

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Speaker 1: McAdams joining us from Fox News. Did he actually say

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Speaker 1: he was on the bridge looking at fish? That's right? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he said he was on the bridge out there just

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Speaker 1: taking in nature and looking at the fish. And when

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Speaker 1: day after m if he saw anybody out there with

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Speaker 1: a group of young girls, he goes, yeah, i'd stop

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Speaker 1: you girls that I didn't pay much attention if I

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Speaker 1: was looking down at my phone, I thought I was

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Speaker 1: looking at the fish. He said he was looking at

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Speaker 1: the fish. Then he was looking at the phone. He

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Speaker 1: told him about to give her back, you know, amost

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Speaker 1: six years ago. Now it's I guess. Then he edited

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Speaker 1: in the fish back in October, looking at fish. Oh,

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Speaker 1: can I please jump in? Go ahead. This is not

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Speaker 1: a fit, dude. This is not a hiker. There is

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Speaker 1: no way. Did he parked down the street at an

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Speaker 1: abandoned building and then decide to go on a hike

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Speaker 1: and look at nay, no, no no, no, no, not just nature.

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Speaker 1: He wanted to look at fish clear, fish very clear.

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Speaker 1: There's no way. Boy, they're on that tall bridge. How

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Speaker 1: tall is that bridge? Joe Scott, Thank you, Joe Scott.

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Speaker 1: Morgan Jackie says sixty three half yeah, he must have

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Speaker 1: a really good eyesight to look down into the water

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Speaker 1: from sixty three feet. Second, Thomas Bridge and Indiana second,

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Speaker 1: thank you, Jackie, Joe Scott. She's totally stealing your thunder

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Speaker 1: and she is mean and too. But guys, he doesn't

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Speaker 1: just place. She doesn't. He doesn't just place himself there.

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Speaker 1: Witnesses place him. They're taking listen to our friends w DRB.

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Speaker 1: Kind of creepy. That's how three juveniles described a man

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Speaker 1: they walk past on the trail near montin high Bridge

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Speaker 1: on February thirteenth, twenty seventeen. That same afternoon, fourteen year

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Speaker 1: old Libby German and thirteen year old Abbey Williams disappeared

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Speaker 1: a probably cause Affidavid unsealed today says. Cell Phone video

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Speaker 1: recovered from one victim shows Williams and Germans encountering a

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Speaker 1: man wearing a dark jacket and jeans who ordered guys

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Speaker 1: get down the hill near the end of the footage.

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Speaker 1: This probable cause affidavit lays out that Alan places himself

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Speaker 1: at the saying of the double murder of these two

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Speaker 1: little girls. Witnesses place a man looking like him, wearing

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Speaker 1: the clothes he describes he's wearing, and there's more. Take

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Speaker 1: a list of Fox fifty nine and wr The PC

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Speaker 1: also lists a witness whose name has been redacted, who

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Speaker 1: told investigators that she saw someone who matched Alan's description

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Speaker 1: walking away from the bridge, and his clothes were quote

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Speaker 1: muddy and bloody. It appeared he had gotten into a fight.

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Speaker 1: A probable cause affidavit only needs to present enough evidence

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Speaker 1: to convince a judge to issue an arrest warrant, not

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Speaker 1: necessarily enough to score a conviction. And they're not releasing

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Speaker 1: very much information at all. They released just enough in

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Speaker 1: the probable cause to show that they had a valid

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Speaker 1: reason to arrest him. They didn't put anything else in

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Speaker 1: the provocast. Carol County Prosecutor Nicholas mcleland told the court

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Speaker 1: last week that to release the probable cause could jeopardize

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Speaker 1: the case, and that he thought someone else was involved

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Speaker 1: in the killings. Acclaim. Former IPD homicide commander Robert Snow

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Speaker 1: says the redacted PC doesn't back up when I read

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Speaker 1: the prova cost No, I didn't see anything that would

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Speaker 1: implicate another person. No. Investigators say they think Richard Allen

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Speaker 1: is the man in the video captured on Livy's cell phone.

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Speaker 1: Have they matched that voice to his We don't know.

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Speaker 1: And again, there's no explanation why Allen is charged with

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Speaker 1: felony murder instead of murder. If he's charged with felly murder,

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Speaker 1: someone else was also involved in the case. That's what

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Speaker 1: you know makes me believe there is someone else involved

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Speaker 1: in the case. So you've got a list of witnesses

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Speaker 1: who tell investigators they see a guy matching Alan's description

427
00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:02,719
Speaker 1: muddy and bloody. Okay, straight out to you, Cheryl McCollum.

428
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: Does that mean it means he didn't shoot him. It

429
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: means he probably used a straight edge weapon. It means

430
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 1: that's where the staging comes in. That we know from

431
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: the FDI information he positioned them. He staged them. He's

432
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: spent over an hour and twenty one minutes from when

433
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: he was seen on the bridge and when he was

434
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 1: seen with his bloody jeans. So from two fourteen to

435
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: three thirty five is when this whole crime occurred. It

436
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: doesn't take an hour in twenty one minutes to kill

437
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 1: two people, so he spent a lot of time there.

438
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: That's probably when he did the staging, took the souvenirs

439
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: and did whatever he did to them, which was for

440
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: his own gratification. Relative to this muddy and bloody contexts

441
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 1: the statement, it's important to understand that even if he

442
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: destroyed those clothes, which there's a chance that he did,

443
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,440
Speaker 1: that he was wearing, this is very intimate and he

444
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: will have transferred his own unique evidence to these bodies

445
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: perhaps and that can be a tie back to him

446
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: and the bodies. We don't know that yet. But because

447
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 1: he had this contact trace evidence on him perd this witness,

448
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 1: if that's the case, that's going to be significant here.

449
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 1: Alexis McAdams mentioned earlier the specter of a co defendant.

450
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 1: Now you're hearing a homicide detective state that because he's

451
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 1: charged with felony murder, that makes the detective suspect there

452
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: is another person involved. I don't necessarily see that unless

453
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: the person was helping to cover up. But take a

454
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 1: listen now to our cut ninetyr. So his clothes, his car,

455
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: his gun, investigators say all of them point to Richard Allen. Now,

456
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: this document references a lot of witnesses who say they

457
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: think they saw the killer on the trail or near

458
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: the bridge on the day of the murders. One witness

459
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,239
Speaker 1: reported seeing a man walking away from the area with

460
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: clothes that were muddy and bloody. Another important point to

461
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: here that we want to point out. This document mentions

462
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: only Alan as being involved in the crime. But remember

463
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: last week in court we heard the prosecutors say that

464
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: another person could be involved as well. Straight out to

465
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: Alexis McAdams, what do you make of that another person involved,

466
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: not just Alan? Yeah, I mean that's something that they

467
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: had mentioned possibly in the very beginning when we had

468
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: talked to different investigators, both on camera and off camera

469
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: over time. The main question was how do you get

470
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: two girls down the hill without them fighting back, Which

471
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: is where the gun had kind of come in in

472
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: the past, where people tried to really zoom in Nancy

473
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: and trying to see on that video clip and that

474
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: picture that was blurry, if the man who had his

475
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: head down walking had anything in his pocket or in

476
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: his jacket there that could have forced those girls down

477
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: the hill there, and now we're trying to learn still

478
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: more about who this other person could be, and the

479
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: court documents that were released. These girls who were out

480
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: there that day, same age as that Gabby and Libby,

481
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: on a day off from school, having fun near the bridge,

482
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: said they saw a man wearing all blue, like a

483
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: duck canvas type jacket. His head down wasn't friendly. They

484
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: called him creepy. But if you go down a little bit.

485
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: There was another girl who said there was a man

486
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: not very tall with a bigger build, about five ten.

487
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 1: Said he was wearing a black hoodie, black jeans, and

488
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: black boots with his hands in his pocket. So that's

489
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 1: a completely different description. And then you think back too.

490
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: They've released two sketches, one that looks a lot like

491
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: Allen and one that looks like a younger man that

492
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: isn't anybody who's in custody yet, so there's unanswered questions there.

493
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: To talk to. Angela Arnold, I find it really hard

494
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: to believe that you could get another guy in town

495
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: to go along with what I believe to be the

496
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: intended sex attack, kidnap, and ultimately martyr of two little girls,

497
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: and that being kept a secret. I find that really

498
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,719
Speaker 1: hard to believe. Oh. I completely agree with you, Nancy,

499
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: because what do people do. People talk and people brag.

500
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: There is no way I'm going out on a limb here.

501
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: But I don't think I completely route you. I do

502
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: not think there's any way that someone else was involved

503
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: in the And if there was someone else, then why

504
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: didn't they think then? Why it didn't people see somebody

505
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: else when they saw him when he was all bloodied

506
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: and coming up from out of there. You know, I'm

507
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: also curious about something in that. Alexis McAdams also mentioned

508
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: Shery McCollum the way that a car matching the description

509
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: of his car was parked in an odd like a

510
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: Batman cade way, where the tag was obscure, where no

511
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: one could see the tag. It was his car, tucked

512
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: away and hidden near the scene of the murders. Right

513
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: and again, Nancy, this is not what you would do

514
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 1: if you were headed to hike. That was my point earlier.

515
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: Nobody said hike. He said he was looking at fish,

516
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: which even is even more absurd. It is absurd. But

517
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: even to get there, if you park in the parking lot,

518
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: you've still got a pretty good track to get to

519
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: the bridge, is what I'm saying. He wouldn't have made

520
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: it more difficult for himself and much further to get there,

521
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: much less hide in his tag trying to shield people

522
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: from seeing his car as they drive by, because if

523
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 1: you park at an angle like that and you're driving

524
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: down the street, you wouldn't see it hardly at all.

525
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: So we're lucky we even have that, you know, Fran

526
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: Longwell joining me, former Deputy State's Attorney and former assistant

527
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: State's Attorney, Fran Longwell. A probable cause affidavit is bare bones.

528
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: It's just enough to get the search or the arrest warrant.

529
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 1: That's all it is. Otherwise a jury trial would last

530
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: about fifteen minutes if everything that you show the jury

531
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: was in the PC. I mean, this is just the

532
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: beginning of what we're gonna learn, Fran, That's exactly true.

533
00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: And I'm concerned because they had arrested a guy last December,

534
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: and they had arrested him right after the incident, someone

535
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: who had an instant Instagram account where he had a

536
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: fake Instagram account and admitted to talking to Libby that

537
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: morning and trying to arrange to meet with her on

538
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: the bridge. So was he the other person involved. It's

539
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: very possible that he was. And if he was with

540
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: the other guy, he would be the one that would

541
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: lure them to the bridge, So he knew when he

542
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: got there at one thirty that those girls were going

543
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: to be on the bridge at that time to meet

544
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 1: with this guy. I'm expecting a lot more to come

545
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: out at trial. Alexis McAdams. He's been charged with felony murder,

546
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: which very simply put means that a death occurred during

547
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: a felony. In this case, I assume that underlying felony

548
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 1: is kidnapped. Although he's not specifically charged with kidnap, is

549
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: he No way, they haven't mentioned anything about that. If

550
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: you charge felony murder, you don't have to charge the

551
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: underlying crime. That's the advantage of charging it. Yeah, you

552
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: proved it, but you don't have to charge it. You're

553
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 1: absolutely correct, and I've been dumfounded that he was not

554
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: charged with kidnapping fran because, of course, kidnapping does not

555
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: mean you have to put somebody in your car trunk

556
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 1: and drive him sixty miles away and keep them hidden

557
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: in a hotel or in a dungeon. You can move

558
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: your victim a foot is called asportation, or one hundred

559
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: miles if they're moved at all, for instance, from that

560
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: bridge down to the bottom of the bridge. That's asportation

561
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 1: under the law. But he's not charged with kidnapping. And

562
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: speaking of another legal hurdle, now there's a request for

563
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: a change a venue, which, believe it or not, I

564
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: agree with the defense. There should be a change of venue.

565
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut ninety five WLFY. Allen's

566
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: attorneys also asked for a change of venue. They asked

567
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: if the trail be moved somewhere at least one hundred

568
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: and fifty miles away from Carroll County. Attorneys Andrew Baldwin

569
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: and Brad Rosie say the publicity the case has gotten

570
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 1: and the small population of Carroll County would make it

571
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 1: impossible to find jurors without a connection to the case

572
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 1: or ideas about Allen's innocence or gil. I fully expect

573
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: the change of venue, but the families of Libby and

574
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: Abbey are wondering what took so long? Take a less

575
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 1: an hour cut in ninety eight from NBC investigators first

576
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 1: spoke to Richard Allen back in twenty seventeen, and at

577
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 1: that time, Allan told investigators he was on the trails

578
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: by the Moon on high Bridge between one thirty and

579
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 1: three thirty on the day of the murders. The PC

580
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 1: did not say why investigators spoke to him back in

581
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen. Then last month, on October thirteenth, investigators interviewed

582
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: Allen again. According to the PC, Alan again said he

583
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: was on the Moon on high Bridge to watch the fish.

584
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: He said he parked his car on the side of

585
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: an old building and was wearing blue jeans and a

586
00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 1: blue or black Carthart jacket with a hood. Investigators say

587
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,320
Speaker 1: that matches the clothes worn by the man who Libby

588
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 1: captured in this video on the day of the murder.

589
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: What happened between the time they spoke to him for

590
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: the first time in twenty seventeen to twenty twenty two, Who,

591
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: if anyone else is involved in the double murders of

592
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: these two little girls on the bridge in Delphi. We

593
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 1: wait as justice and falls. Nancy Grace Crimes story, signing

594
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:35,800
Speaker 1: off goodbye friend,