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Speaker 2: To whom much is given, much is expected. The guilt
Speaker 2: comes from am I doing enough?
Speaker 1: Me?
Speaker 2: Michelle Obama to say that to a therapist. So let's
Speaker 2: impat that former First Lady Michelle Obama and someone who
Speaker 2: knows her best, her big brother. We'll be hosting a
Speaker 2: podcast called I Am O.
Speaker 1: What have been your personal journeys with therapy?
Speaker 2: We need to be coached throughout our lives.
Speaker 3: And my mom wanted us to be independent children and
Speaker 3: she would always tell me stop worrying about your sister.
Speaker 2: Having been the first lady of the entire country and
Speaker 2: representing the country in the world, I couldn't afford to
Speaker 2: have that kind of disdain.
Speaker 1: What would you say has been the most hardest, g
Speaker 1: recent test of fear.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna make him start so that I don't start crying.
Speaker 4: The number one health and well in the podcast.
Speaker 2: Jay Sheety Jay Shetty Jon.
Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, welcome back to on Purpose, the place you
Speaker 1: come to become the happier, healthier and more healed. Today's
Speaker 1: guests are two of my favorite people. I'm so grateful
Speaker 1: and excited to welcome one of the back, and one
Speaker 1: of them for the first time ever. I'm speaking about
Speaker 1: none other than Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. Welcome Purpose Dynamic.
Speaker 2: I always say, it's like your my most favorite interview
Speaker 2: ever period.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, that's saying a lot.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Wow, you're gonna make me cry. That's
Speaker 1: so sweet.
Speaker 4: She's the one who turned me on to you, so
Speaker 4: this like old Home Week.
Speaker 1: Thank you both, But honestly, I'm so grateful. I was
Speaker 1: just thinking when I was preparing for this, I was like,
Speaker 1: I wish my sister was in town because then we
Speaker 1: could have double interviewed.
Speaker 2: All right, we're gonna we have to do that.
Speaker 1: She would have killed me if I did that to her,
Speaker 1: because she's not She's an optometrist in London, the best. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're going to check your eyes for you. She's four
Speaker 1: and a half years younger than me, and I still
Speaker 1: remember the moment. Well, I don't remember the moment. It's interesting.
Speaker 1: I've seen a picture of me holding her when she
Speaker 1: was born, and I was four and five years old,
Speaker 1: and so I have this memory that I held her
Speaker 1: when she was born. Yeah, and we've been inseparable ever since.
Speaker 3: Jay, you're gonna have to when she comes to town,
Speaker 3: just don't tell her. Just tell us and we'll come
Speaker 3: back and we can just ambush her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she will, but we have one of those pictures
Speaker 2: to my favorite family picture. I was a newborn. I
Speaker 2: was maybe ten months, but I was one of these big, fat, round,
Speaker 2: puffy babies and a bonnet and a white dress, and
Speaker 2: my dad was in a suit and a bow tie
Speaker 2: and mom our Mom had the most beautiful tunic dress
Speaker 2: on and Craig sat on her lap. I was on
Speaker 2: my dad's lap and I have this little fat arm
Speaker 2: and he's in a little bow tie and he's holding
Speaker 2: onto my arm and looking at the camera like you
Speaker 2: better not. You know, he seems so so concerned. You know,
Speaker 2: he was about two years old.
Speaker 1: Can we get the look?
Speaker 4: I was worried. I had this. It's just like, what
Speaker 4: is going on? And I hold on because I was worried.
Speaker 2: I don't know what they're gonna do to my sister.
Speaker 2: But that that picture epitomizes our relationship. He has always
Speaker 2: been my quiet protector, just and that sweet little face.
Speaker 2: You know, he is the ultimate big brother. And he's
Speaker 2: been by my side holding my arm like that for
Speaker 2: my entire life.
Speaker 1: Wow, I love that. And do you actually remember do
Speaker 1: you remember the moment or it's the picture that you
Speaker 1: remember that's.
Speaker 4: Just like yours.
Speaker 3: It's the picture I don't know, and I remember back
Speaker 3: to when I was three and four some things, but
Speaker 3: that when I don't. But when I see the picture,
Speaker 3: it just warms my heart every time I see it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. I mean sibling relationships. As I
Speaker 1: said in mine as well, My sister and I are
Speaker 1: so close. Yeah, and we haven't lived in the same
Speaker 1: country for nine years now, but we talk and stay
Speaker 1: in touch and we're constantly connected, and I wanted to
Speaker 1: stop asking you this question for both of you. That
Speaker 1: I feel like the first time and my sister got
Speaker 1: close is when I shared a secret with her, and
Speaker 1: I was wondering, what was the first secret that you
Speaker 1: ever told each other, as early as it was, as
Speaker 1: silly as it was, that you remember sharing something in
Speaker 1: confidence in the beginning, early days of your relationship.
Speaker 3: Okay, now you did this to me when you came
Speaker 3: on our show. That is a question I've never been asked.
Speaker 4: I love it. I love it. You got me back,
Speaker 4: you got me back? Okay. A secret, A secret?
Speaker 2: I don't know if it was a secret, but it
Speaker 2: was a what felt like a secret practice of ours.
Speaker 2: We shared a room for most of our lives, and
Speaker 2: there came a point in time when our parents, because
Speaker 2: we didn't have a lot of money, thought it's time
Speaker 2: for them to have their own rooms. So they took
Speaker 2: this one big room our grandfather's south Side, who was
Speaker 2: a Jackla carpenter, built plywood a plywood tea wall that
Speaker 2: went down the middle of this one bedroom and broke
Speaker 2: the room into two little units that were big enough
Speaker 2: for a twin bed and a desk and one of
Speaker 2: those accordion doors, right, that was those were our rooms.
Speaker 3: And it was that that old paneling look, so it
Speaker 3: was it was that fake wood that.
Speaker 2: Was, and the and the ceiling didn't go all the
Speaker 2: way to the top of the roof, and there was
Speaker 2: a little crack in between the rooms by the window sill.
Speaker 2: And when we were supposed to be in bed, we
Speaker 2: would spend that whole night just talking in between the walls. Right,
Speaker 2: we were supposed to be asleep, but go, Mesh, Mesh,
Speaker 2: are you awake. I'd be like, no, And then we'd
Speaker 2: have some deep conversation about life. And you know, every
Speaker 2: now my mom mom would yell, go to bed, you're
Speaker 2: supposed to be asleep, and we giggle and we just
Speaker 2: keep talking. So I think we shared the secret of
Speaker 2: not going to bed but having our own little breakdown
Speaker 2: of the day. I don't even remember what we talked about,
Speaker 2: but we were always supposed to be talking, but we
Speaker 2: were constantly talking. So I can't think of a secret.
Speaker 4: So I can think of a secret.
Speaker 3: Okay, So this is the discovery of Santa Claus.
Speaker 2: Oh, yes, that's a good one.
Speaker 3: So we Jay. As you know, we lived in a
Speaker 3: two family home. We lived on the top floor, very
Speaker 3: small apartment. Our great aunt Robbie and uncle of Terry
Speaker 3: lived downstairs.
Speaker 4: And in our basement, which wasn't finished.
Speaker 3: It was a concrete basement, pillars, washing machine, furnace of
Speaker 3: storage room. But then there was a table that was
Speaker 3: like a workbench, and a refrigerator that didn't work or
Speaker 3: it wasn't plugged in.
Speaker 2: It was a refrigerator, old time refrigerator. And we used
Speaker 2: to go down there and play.
Speaker 3: We played hockey, we'd ride our bikes, we'd do all
Speaker 3: kinds of stuff. And Mesh was down there once by
Speaker 3: herself and came running upstairs.
Speaker 4: Great Greg, come here, come here, come here, and she
Speaker 4: took me downstairs.
Speaker 3: She opens up the refrigerator and there are two empty
Speaker 3: boxes for boxing gloves.
Speaker 4: Now this is June or July.
Speaker 2: Yeah, little kids boxing gloves.
Speaker 3: We got boxing gloves for Christmas the year before. Oh okay, so,
Speaker 3: and she deduced.
Speaker 2: The gloves are here. Santa wouldn't leave gloves.
Speaker 3: Gloveboxes gloveboxes because our mom didn't wrap the presence. She
Speaker 3: set them under the tree as if Santa had just
Speaker 3: brought toys and didn't wrap them, and I remember me.
Speaker 4: Saying, Mom and Dad are Santa Claus.
Speaker 2: But then the secret was we weren't gonna tell them
Speaker 2: that we knew, because first of all, we didn't want
Speaker 2: to deploy disappointment. Yeah, because it's like what a blunder, right,
Speaker 2: So we sort of kept it to ourselves that for
Speaker 2: a good year or two we knew there wasn't a
Speaker 2: Santa Claus.
Speaker 4: Along, we played along. That's so funny. It's like living
Speaker 4: a love. That's really And do your parents know that
Speaker 4: the story? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were mad at our aunt Robbie. My mom
Speaker 2: was particular because she was, like, I told her not
Speaker 2: to keep those glove boxes. She was supposed to throw those.
Speaker 2: My mom was furious because my mom was Christmas very seriously.
Speaker 2: I mean, she decorated the house, She created a chimney
Speaker 2: where there wasn't one. She was very crafty. She she
Speaker 2: really took great joy in keeping this Santa Claus myth alive.
Speaker 2: And the fact that our aunt Robbie spoiled it for
Speaker 2: us sooner than she was ready to, she was not happy. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they didn't have kids and didn't really appreciate it. And
Speaker 2: she cared more about saving a couple of boxes than
Speaker 2: you know, keeping the magic of Christmas alive.
Speaker 1: Oh that's amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a good one. That's why it's good
Speaker 2: to have him here, because I wouldn't have remembered that.
Speaker 1: Well, that's what's so beautiful about this, this relationship. And
Speaker 1: it's interesting you both said, because we did the same thing.
Speaker 1: So me and my sister shared a room as well,
Speaker 1: and it's so interesting to hear about. I talked to
Speaker 1: a lot of siblings and some are not close to
Speaker 1: each other and some are very close to each other.
Speaker 1: And you see that pattern in people who shared a room,
Speaker 1: who talked about something every night connected. And that's how
Speaker 1: I think me and my sister got used to talking
Speaker 1: to each other, because that's who you dissected the day
Speaker 1: with exactly. Even if it wasn't very deep and profound.
Speaker 2: At the time, we were stuck with each other, for
Speaker 2: better for worse.
Speaker 1: I love that what was what would you say, was
Speaker 1: something that you felt, a value that you learned at
Speaker 1: that early stage in your life that you both feel
Speaker 1: you've kept till today, like something that continue to be
Speaker 1: a part of who you are today.
Speaker 3: My mom wanted us to be independent children. And she
Speaker 3: would always tell me, stop worrying about your sister, because
Speaker 3: whenever I did something, I wanted to include her. If
Speaker 3: I was going outside and she was outside, I felt
Speaker 3: like I had to keep an eye on her. I
Speaker 3: felt like I had to protect her, and my mom
Speaker 3: always said to not do that.
Speaker 1: Interesting.
Speaker 3: First of all, she didn't want Mesh to have to
Speaker 3: feel like she was being looked after by her brother.
Speaker 3: That's what her parents were for, and she didn't want
Speaker 3: me to have to worry about her. But I will
Speaker 3: say that I couldn't stop worrying about her. So I
Speaker 3: have been looking after her from the time she was
Speaker 3: a little kid and I was holding her arm. We
Speaker 3: ended up in college together at Princeton. And remember when
Speaker 3: we drove move to South Carolina.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, We rented a car for spring break.
Speaker 4: For spring break and drove to South Carolina.
Speaker 2: And visit our grandparents.
Speaker 3: They had moved down there from Chicago, and we thought
Speaker 3: we'd surprise them and the two of us were going
Speaker 3: to drive, but I was so worried about her driving
Speaker 3: that I tried to drive the entire way by myself.
Speaker 4: And you know, six hours later.
Speaker 2: He's starting to blink like I'm like, are you okay?
Speaker 2: I got it? I got it, And I was like,
Speaker 2: you know, I can drive.
Speaker 3: She's very capable and a very good driver. But I was,
Speaker 3: you know, me and mister worry war. So finally I
Speaker 3: had to just take care.
Speaker 2: I just have to go to sleep. I was like,
Speaker 2: we'll pull over. I can do this. I drove us
Speaker 2: the rest of.
Speaker 4: The way the way, but at every fifteen minutes after
Speaker 4: I fall asleep, I'd be like, oh yeah, yeah, it's like,
Speaker 4: are you okay?
Speaker 2: It's fine. Well for me, the value, it's the value
Speaker 2: of family. It's the value of the no one you
Speaker 2: can count on more than you know, your your siblings
Speaker 2: and your mom and your dad. And I feel for
Speaker 2: people who were raised with sibling turmoil, you know, or
Speaker 2: turmoil in their household where they didn't feel safe at home.
Speaker 2: And that was never the case. We felt poor, you know,
Speaker 2: we felt like we didn't always get the stuff that
Speaker 2: we wanted. But we always felt and it wasn't just
Speaker 2: our nuclear family. We grew up in a big community
Speaker 2: of family, were fortunate enough to be raised with all
Speaker 2: four of our grandparents. They all lived within a couple
Speaker 2: of mile radius of us. Even though our maternal grandparents
Speaker 2: were separated, they lived in separate households around the corner
Speaker 2: from each other, Wow, which was around the corner from
Speaker 2: us cousins and uncles and aunts, and when times were down,
Speaker 2: people would share homes. I remember when we were little
Speaker 2: in Southside, our mother's father, who lived with a couple
Speaker 2: of her sisters, their house burned down, their apartment did,
Speaker 2: and I remember being really little, and there was a discussion,
Speaker 2: or how are we going to help people out until
Speaker 2: they found a new place to live. And so two
Speaker 2: of our aunts, Carolyn, and there was someone else, stayed
Speaker 2: in our little apartment and she worked nights, but she
Speaker 2: slept in my bed and I didn't even really know
Speaker 2: it because she would come in and just push me
Speaker 2: over and sleep in bed with me, which was next
Speaker 2: to Craig's bed. It was just this, when family's in trouble,
Speaker 2: you step up. And I think to this day, throughout
Speaker 2: all our travels travails being in the White House, we
Speaker 2: retained that no matter what was going on in his
Speaker 2: life or mine, we had some rituals, you know. We
Speaker 2: did Thanksgiving together. His family came to the Easter egg role.
Speaker 2: My niece and nephew, his oldest kids. Whenever we had
Speaker 2: an interesting trip in the summer, Avery and Leslie always
Speaker 2: came with us, so it wasn't just me, Malia and
Speaker 2: Sasha on Bright Star the first Lady's plane, seeing Nelson Mandela,
Speaker 2: or going on Safari or going to see going to Rome,
Speaker 2: but averyan Leslie came with us, So it just made
Speaker 2: the whole experience feel like we weren't on some island
Speaker 2: just doing this really hard thing, but we were still
Speaker 2: doing it as a family. So family values, I think,
Speaker 2: is probably one of the strongest things we took away
Speaker 2: and we made it happen in that little house on
Speaker 2: seventy fourth in Euclid. It was just brimming with love
Speaker 2: and conversation and trust.
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Speaker 1: I love that. I remember last time we were together,
Speaker 1: you were talking about just the kitchen table and just
Speaker 1: the gathering of minds and family and how important that
Speaker 1: is in Craig, I know your birthday is coming up too,
Speaker 1: like it.
Speaker 4: Is thank you day, thanks for remembering twenty first.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, twenty first birthday. But were birthday is a
Speaker 1: big part of connecting over the years as well or
Speaker 1: as not not been, because that for my sister is
Speaker 1: like the biggest day. She's like, my birthday is really important.
Speaker 1: Do not miss my birthday, like I know.
Speaker 3: Well, we never missed birthdays, and we always celebrated birthdays,
Speaker 3: but they weren't a big deal like where we had
Speaker 3: a party, Like I think you had one or two
Speaker 3: birthday parties.
Speaker 2: And this is the tripped out thing about this generation,
Speaker 2: Like kids have parties every year and multiple parties. They're blowout.
Speaker 2: You know, it's a birthday month and you're renting something
Speaker 2: and you're catering, and you know, I've been like our generation,
Speaker 2: you had maybe thirteen maybe five years old, you had
Speaker 2: two parties and they were at your house in the
Speaker 2: kitchen table, right, you know, with your cousins and.
Speaker 3: You played pin the tail on the donkey in the
Speaker 3: yard or somewhere like that. But but as a family,
Speaker 3: we celebrated everybody's birthday and it was a big deal.
Speaker 3: Every now and then that community of relatives that were
Speaker 3: around us would come over and it didn't matter what
Speaker 3: the day. If it was Thursday and everybody had to
Speaker 3: go to work on Friday, they would come over and
Speaker 3: sing Happy Birthday, gift cards out. Birthdays were always celebrated
Speaker 3: in our family.
Speaker 2: They weren't like big like see me, bring me gifts,
Speaker 2: but it was a time to gather. And we're talking
Speaker 2: about the extended family. So my mother had said brothers
Speaker 2: and sisters, and then the cousins and then our grandfather.
Speaker 2: We were always at Southsides house for these birthdays because
Speaker 2: that's the side of the family that did it. Every
Speaker 2: There was a dinner and cards for every birthday for
Speaker 2: all those people, you know, so it's almost like every
Speaker 2: weekend we were celebrating somebody's birthday.
Speaker 1: That's what's been something that you've an idea that you've
Speaker 1: had to unlearn since you were younger, something that you've
Speaker 1: kind of had to let go of as time has
Speaker 1: gone on. Something that was important before, but you're like, no,
Speaker 1: it's not so important.
Speaker 3: Talked about our grandfather's apartment being on fire. Fire back
Speaker 3: then in the seventies was a real thing, like houses
Speaker 3: caught on fire.
Speaker 2: People didn't have smoke, especially in working class, poor communities,
Speaker 2: you didn't.
Speaker 4: Have smoke detective detectors.
Speaker 2: So I think we knew several kids who's homes caught
Speaker 2: on fire.
Speaker 3: And I had to unlearn worrying about our house being
Speaker 3: on fire. I mean, I grew up completely obsessed with
Speaker 3: being able to recognize if the house was going to
Speaker 3: be on fire number one and then having the ability
Speaker 3: to get everyone out. And you know, our dad had MS,
Speaker 3: and so he walked with a limp from the time
Speaker 3: I could remember. He then had a cane, and then
Speaker 3: he had the crutches that went around his arm, and
Speaker 3: I would practice dragging him with his shoulder, with my
Speaker 3: arms under his shoulders around the house and he would
Speaker 3: I know it was humiliating, but he'd let me do it.
Speaker 3: And my mom would be like, Craig, put Fraser down,
Speaker 3: just stop doing that. And I went in to make
Speaker 3: sure I could drag him through the house. And we
Speaker 3: had like fourteen stairs down to get out. I didn't
Speaker 3: drag him down there, but I knew I could if
Speaker 3: I had to. That's something I had to unlearn because
Speaker 3: that was a real fear of mine. Was a fear
Speaker 3: of dying in a fire.
Speaker 4: Wow, Yeah, what did it take?
Speaker 3: Like, what was the Well, what it took was I
Speaker 3: realized it was irrational as I got older, because there were.
Speaker 4: Less house fires.
Speaker 3: And I guess it wasn't irrational because there were actually
Speaker 3: house fires. But the advent of smoke detectors and the
Speaker 3: advent of sort of inflam non inflammable.
Speaker 4: Or what is it, non and non flammable.
Speaker 3: Items around the house, I was always worried about a
Speaker 3: fire starting. And we had a fire start in our kitchen.
Speaker 3: You remember, we were cooking pop tarts, which were like.
Speaker 2: Saturday mornings, we kind of had the run of the
Speaker 2: kitchen because that was the day Mom would sleep in.
Speaker 2: And we had this old toaster and we were making
Speaker 2: fad tarts and it caught.
Speaker 3: Fire and came out, and the flame came up and
Speaker 3: then sure enough.
Speaker 2: Mom to the rescue.
Speaker 4: Mom came in and put it under the same.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But as you talk about fear, when I think
Speaker 2: about things that I think we had to subconsciously unlearn,
Speaker 2: was fear because you know, we grew up at a
Speaker 2: time and you know, just coming out of the deep
Speaker 2: segregation of Chicago. But our parents and grandpa parents grew
Speaker 2: up in it. You know, in a time when being
Speaker 2: black in the city, you know, you were isolated. There
Speaker 2: were areas of the city that you couldn't go into
Speaker 2: because you could be literally harmed killed as a black person.
Speaker 2: That was that was the truth of Chicago. As I
Speaker 2: noticed in my family, fear, the fear of what could
Speaker 2: happen to a black man, to a black person, kind
Speaker 2: of consumed some of our elders and stunted their growth.
Speaker 2: I mean Southside the grandparent that I talked about, he
Speaker 2: was kind of a mama's boy. You know, his mom
Speaker 2: our great grandmother, Mamma overprotected him and as a result,
Speaker 2: he never really got his own footing because he had
Speaker 2: a mom that was going to make sure you live
Speaker 2: at home. I'll take care of you. He also had
Speaker 2: limits as a black man because he was a carpenter
Speaker 2: who wasn't allowed to join the unions, couldn't afford to
Speaker 2: go to college. They were of the generation where even
Speaker 2: if you were smart and talented, the ceiling was real
Speaker 2: and the dangers were real. A lot of the reason
Speaker 2: our family was so close right was because the elders
Speaker 2: were keeping everybody close and they were slowly passing those
Speaker 2: fears on don't go down this street, don't go on
Speaker 2: this bus, maybe not take that job, don't try something
Speaker 2: new because it could kill you. I think our parents
Speaker 2: tried to actively unhook those those things from us by
Speaker 2: pushing us out. I think they knew that they had
Speaker 2: the tendency to suffocate their dreams because of these fears,
Speaker 2: to not try new things, to not draw outside of
Speaker 2: the lines. And I think they deliberately pushed us. So
Speaker 2: there were a lot of yes is in terms of experiences, exposures,
Speaker 2: Craig traveling on his AAU basketball league to other parts
Speaker 2: of the city, even you know, because in a city
Speaker 2: like Chicago, because of those fears, we had cousins that
Speaker 2: lived on the west side of the city. We lived
Speaker 2: on the south side of the city, in a neighborhood
Speaker 2: that was right along the lake near downtown Chicago. If
Speaker 2: you're a black kid growing up on the West side
Speaker 2: of Chicago, we met kids that had never been downtown.
Speaker 2: They had ever seen the lake. And if you've been
Speaker 2: to Chicago, to be from Chicago and never see the
Speaker 2: lake is a herculean effort. But you understand it when
Speaker 2: you're a black kid from the West Side and you
Speaker 2: viewed with suspicion. When you come downtown, you don't feel
Speaker 2: welcome outside of your neighborhood, so your world gets smaller
Speaker 2: and smaller. I think our parents did not want that
Speaker 2: smallness for us, and we saw how that smallness kept
Speaker 2: some really intelligent people in our lives in one spot.
Speaker 2: You know. They didn't move, they didn't grow, they didn't
Speaker 2: try new things. I had an aunt, my mother's youngest sister,
Speaker 2: who recently passed this year, who never came to the
Speaker 2: White House, and all the years that we were there,
Speaker 2: she never came. Why because she was afraid of flying,
Speaker 2: she was afraid of driving too long, She was afraid
Speaker 2: of doing anything but leaving her house and going to
Speaker 2: work and coming home. We saw that here, right, We
Speaker 2: saw that, and you have to actively tell yourself a
Speaker 2: different set of messages about what you can expect from
Speaker 2: the world. And we also could have been limited by
Speaker 2: that because while it physically limited some of our relatives,
Speaker 2: some of our grandparents' perspectives, like many people in this country,
Speaker 2: they were backwards thinking, you know, their views of white
Speaker 2: people and who they could trust. You know, the same
Speaker 2: south Side never went to the doctor because he didn't
Speaker 2: trust doctors, so he you know, he never went to
Speaker 2: the dentist. That's probably why he died in his seventies.
Speaker 2: He didn't have a tooth in his head, but he
Speaker 2: would never go to the dentist, you know. And we
Speaker 2: would talk about these things around our immediate kitchen table
Speaker 2: because our parents wanted us to learn from the mistakes
Speaker 2: that they had made and others. And that was the
Speaker 2: power of that householders. Our parents talk to us very
Speaker 2: openly and honestly about some of the weird things you'd
Speaker 2: see at Christmas dinner or some of the conversations, and
Speaker 2: you'd come back and go, well, why did Dandy, our
Speaker 2: other grandfather say that, Why did he yell about that?
Speaker 2: What was he talking about? We were always allowed to
Speaker 2: question and that fear element and the limitations on people's
Speaker 2: views of the world we would see and discuss and
Speaker 2: we were told, you have to do better than that.
Speaker 2: You have to live beyond that fear. You have to
Speaker 2: push yourself outside of your comfort zone. And I continue
Speaker 2: to try to do that, instill that in my kids
Speaker 2: and other kids to this day.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's such a profound thing to reflect on
Speaker 1: when thinking about what on Leine, because it's so as
Speaker 1: you said, it wasn't both of you us, but especially
Speaker 1: this is something that isn't going to change based on
Speaker 1: a mindset because it exists. Yeah, in reality, did either
Speaker 1: of you ever have any close calls or run ins that,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, that you would like to share?
Speaker 4: For all.
Speaker 2: You were got tenure, I was.
Speaker 3: I was probably more like twelve because I could ride
Speaker 3: to Rainbow Beach, so figure out.
Speaker 4: Seventh grade ish a department store near.
Speaker 3: Our house called Goldblatz had a sail on ten speed
Speaker 3: bikes to kind with the handlebars that go under that
Speaker 3: was brand new back then. They were yellow and they
Speaker 3: sold a ton of them, and you got one.
Speaker 2: I got one to give your first ten speed bikes.
Speaker 3: And it had to I must have gotten it for
Speaker 3: my birthday, so it was probably around this time of
Speaker 3: the year. But it didn't come with the clamps to
Speaker 3: hold the cables along the yoke. So my mom used
Speaker 3: these twist ties that she got from the baggies that
Speaker 3: you would put stuff in before you had the zip lock.
Speaker 3: You had these bags and then you put these green
Speaker 3: and white twist twisty ties on it. So she put
Speaker 3: them on my bike. And there is a point to this,
Speaker 3: I'm wondering what it is. So so I'm riding my
Speaker 3: bike by myself down seventy fifth Street, which if you
Speaker 3: head east you run right into Lake Michigan. And I'm
Speaker 3: almost there and a policeman comes up to me while
Speaker 3: I'm riding and I'm on the sidewalk and he's in
Speaker 3: the street, turns his lights on, tells me to pull over,
Speaker 3: and I stop, and I was like, officer, how can
Speaker 3: I help because I'm always happy to see a policeman.
Speaker 3: My uncle's a policeman, and you know, officer friendly in school.
Speaker 3: And he said, where'd you get that bike? And I said, oh,
Speaker 3: I got it for my birthday. I just got it.
Speaker 3: I mean, take a look at I was proud of it.
Speaker 3: I was like, this is my new ten speed bike.
Speaker 3: He said, you stole that bike. Now, this was a
Speaker 3: black police officer, and I was like, no, no, and
Speaker 3: it was it was so out of the realm of
Speaker 3: my mind to be accused of stealing a bike. I
Speaker 3: wasn't even worried at first. I just said, no, no, listen,
Speaker 3: you got it all wrong. This is a brand new
Speaker 3: bike that I got. And he was like, I know,
Speaker 3: you stole that bike. And he was basing it on
Speaker 3: the fact that someone who had bought a similar bike
Speaker 3: had it stolen and their mom used twist ties to
Speaker 3: put them on the cables.
Speaker 4: So he wouldn't believe me. And so now I'm getting worried.
Speaker 3: And he picks up my bike and puts it in
Speaker 3: the trunk of the car, puts me in the back
Speaker 3: of the car and says, where do you live?
Speaker 4: And I said, I told him where I lived, and
Speaker 4: he drove. I said, you'll realize this is my bike.
Speaker 3: We can go right to my mom's, right to my house.
Speaker 3: So we pull up to my house and by this
Speaker 3: time I'm in tears. I'm just beside myself. I ring
Speaker 3: the doorbell, and my mom was worried because she knew
Speaker 3: I was gone for her long bike ride. She comes
Speaker 3: out and I said, the policeman has accused me of
Speaker 3: stealing this bike, and I'm in tears. He comes out
Speaker 3: and she said, wait inside. And I'm on our front
Speaker 3: porch looking out, or actually I'm upstairs looking down because
Speaker 3: we lived upstairs. I'm looking down and I see her
Speaker 3: and I can tell she is pissed, and she is
Speaker 3: talking to him like she would talk to us if
Speaker 3: we were in trouble, and all I can see is
Speaker 3: the policeman trying to defend himself. So after about twenty minutes,
Speaker 3: she yells up to the window, Craig, come down here,
Speaker 3: and she said, this policeman has something to say to you.
Speaker 4: And this dude took.
Speaker 3: Off his hat and apologized for accusing me of stealing
Speaker 3: his bike.
Speaker 4: And as it turned out, they ended up finding the guy.
Speaker 3: But it was you know, that's kind of the collateral
Speaker 3: damage of being a young black kid.
Speaker 2: I just think about all, you know, what would have
Speaker 2: happened if my mom wasn't a stay at home mom.
Speaker 2: What if she had been in work when that happened.
Speaker 2: What if, you know, he didn't have a mom that
Speaker 2: you know would stand up for him, What what if?
Speaker 2: What are all the what ifs that that could have happened,
Speaker 2: And that, you know is you imagine you're just having
Speaker 2: a regular day and your son is pulled up to
Speaker 2: your house in the back of a police car at
Speaker 2: ten years old, at ten twelve years old.
Speaker 4: It was it was frightening.
Speaker 2: It was fright you know, And I think what she
Speaker 2: was incredulous was about was that he wasn't even inclined
Speaker 2: to believe this little boy, who was obviously articulate, didn't
Speaker 2: look you know, you don't even want to say didn't
Speaker 2: look like some little hood rat, because what does that matter? Right,
Speaker 2: But that was you know that that was unusual for
Speaker 2: us because we were good kids, I mean, and we
Speaker 2: lived in a neighborhood where their kids were getting into
Speaker 2: trouble all the time. And he knew all the kids
Speaker 2: because he was a basketball player. He knew the game
Speaker 2: kids and the drug dealers and the but everybody also
Speaker 2: knew him, you know. And you know, when you grow
Speaker 2: up in a neighborhood, people know the kids that are
Speaker 2: heading in the wrong direction and the kids who have promised.
Speaker 2: Everybody knew that Craig was a good student, he was
Speaker 2: a good guy, and the notion and I felt the
Speaker 2: anger too, It's like, how dare you do that to
Speaker 2: my brother? But he you know, he had a support system.
Speaker 2: He could have wound up in jail for stealing not
Speaker 2: stealing a bike. So yeah, that kind of stuff happened
Speaker 2: all the time, you know, walking into a department store
Speaker 2: as a young kid and having the the you know,
Speaker 2: salespeople wonder why you're there, and you're coming, you're an
Speaker 2: honor student coming from high school, you know, having lunch
Speaker 2: with your friends. I mean, they don't they didn't see
Speaker 2: that part. There were times when that part of us
Speaker 2: couldn't be We couldn't walk around saying valedictorian straight. A student,
Speaker 2: you know, speaks excellent, has excellent diction if you give
Speaker 2: them a chance. You know, we knew very early on
Speaker 2: that that no one was going to see beyond the
Speaker 2: color of our skin at an early age, and that
Speaker 2: could get you in trouble.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, when you talk about that fear, I'm
Speaker 1: sure that fear has been tested across your life in
Speaker 1: so many different places, and I wonder what would you
Speaker 1: say has been the most hardest recent test of that fear,
Speaker 1: Because it's not one of those fears that you kind
Speaker 1: of get over in it just goes away. It kind
Speaker 1: of shows its head in many different ways. I imagine.
Speaker 2: Well, in this current climate, for me, it's you know,
Speaker 2: what's happening to immigrants, you know, So it's it's not
Speaker 2: the fear for myself anymore. I drive around in a
Speaker 2: four car motorcade with a police escort. I'm Michelle Obama.
Speaker 2: I do still worry about my daughters in the world,
Speaker 2: even though they are somewhat recognized. So my fears are
Speaker 2: for what I know is happening out there in streets
Speaker 2: all over the city. And now that we have leadership
Speaker 2: that is sort of indiscriminately determining who belongs and who doesn't,
Speaker 2: and we know that those decisions aren't being made with
Speaker 2: courts and with due process, and you know that it's
Speaker 2: being made like this cop that pulled my brother over
Speaker 2: when he was twelve. You don't look like somebody that belongs.
Speaker 2: You know, I can determine just by looking at you
Speaker 2: that you're you know, you're a good person, or you're
Speaker 2: not a good person. And knowing that there's so much
Speaker 2: bias and so much racism and so much ignorance that
Speaker 2: fuels those kind of choices, I worry for people of
Speaker 2: color all over this country, and I don't know that
Speaker 2: we will have the advocates to protect everybody. And that
Speaker 2: makes me, that frightens me. It keeps me up at night,
Speaker 2: and I know that there are and I see that
Speaker 2: when I'm driving around LA I'm just looking in the
Speaker 2: faces of folks who could be victim, and I'm wondering
Speaker 2: how are you feeling? How do you feel standing on
Speaker 2: the bus stop? Do you how do you feel comfortable
Speaker 2: going to work, going to school when you know that
Speaker 2: there could be people out here judging you and who
Speaker 2: could up end your life in a second. You know
Speaker 2: that that's who I worry for right now?
Speaker 1: What do you both do with that fear? Because I
Speaker 1: think that's very real and a lot of people listening
Speaker 1: probably feel very similarly to both of you as well.
Speaker 1: What do you do with it? Because it almost feels overwhelming,
Speaker 1: and especially for someone going through it as you're talking
Speaker 1: about with your daughters too, it's not something that you rationalize,
Speaker 1: and you know it's not the same as so many
Speaker 1: other fears, So what do you do with it?
Speaker 3: See, I still have a couple of young kids at home,
Speaker 3: so I've got a fifteen year old and a thirty old,
Speaker 3: So I'm still in the education process for those guys.
Speaker 3: Because we you know, we live in a suburb and
Speaker 3: we have a relatively safe environment, so our kids aren't
Speaker 3: growing up with that kind.
Speaker 4: Of fear that we had.
Speaker 3: But I have to make them aware of it because
Speaker 3: at some point they're going to be away from us
Speaker 3: and they're going to be in a place where they're
Speaker 3: going to encounter that. I'm trying to be as empathetic
Speaker 3: as I can, because that's how we were taught to
Speaker 3: deal with this kind of behavior. Our mom always said,
Speaker 3: just put yourself in the other guy's shoes. He's probably
Speaker 3: had a bad upbringing, an ignorant upbringing. His folks didn't
Speaker 3: know anything, and that's how I always view people who
Speaker 3: treated me with disdain because of my race, or because
Speaker 3: of where.
Speaker 4: I'm from or anything.
Speaker 3: And I'm trying to help my even my older kids
Speaker 3: who are thirty three and twenty nine, they're pretty much
Speaker 3: formed and are handling things on their own. But it's
Speaker 3: a good reminder to talk about this and put some
Speaker 3: coping strategies together for especially our teenagers, because they're going
Speaker 3: to they're going to encounter this at some point.
Speaker 2: I have to practice reverse messaging in my own head
Speaker 2: about this stuff, because you can get locked in the
Speaker 2: disappointments of what is happening right now, and you can
Speaker 2: sit in it and let that eat you up, and
Speaker 2: it can taint your view of so much. Having been
Speaker 2: the first lady of the entire country and representing the
Speaker 2: country in the world, I couldn't afford to have that
Speaker 2: kind of disdain. You know, I had to remind myself
Speaker 2: and put myself in situation that reminded me the ideals
Speaker 2: and beliefs that I disagree with are not pervasive that
Speaker 2: you know, there are a lot of good people out there.
Speaker 2: Again employing empathy, but also reminding myself of the truth
Speaker 2: of what I've seen and I've experienced that We're in
Speaker 2: a confusing time, but it doesn't help me and it
Speaker 2: doesn't help the country for me to grow cynical in
Speaker 2: that space. So I kind of view it as it's
Speaker 2: a duty as a citizen to not do the same
Speaker 2: thing that they're doing and start making assumptions about people
Speaker 2: based on my anger and fear. You know that I
Speaker 2: have to assume that most people are trying to do
Speaker 2: the right thing, that deep down inside, the vast majority
Speaker 2: of us do not want to see our neighbors and
Speaker 2: our friends and relatives live in fear. They just don't
Speaker 2: understand what it feels like to be the target. But
Speaker 2: if they knew, they would understand, which is why communication
Speaker 2: and conversation is so important, because maybe if I can
Speaker 2: tell a story, you know, if I can if I
Speaker 2: can help them be in the shoes of someone and
Speaker 2: that it can have that same empathizing effect that I'd
Speaker 2: rather use that rather than become to become discouraged and
Speaker 2: then suspicious and just be the you know, just do
Speaker 2: what they're doing. I don't want to become that. So
Speaker 2: it's a constant reminder, do not slip in to that
Speaker 2: behavior yourself.
Speaker 1: I love that. I think that's such optimistic, hopeful, powerful mindset.
Speaker 1: And you're so right, because if we all become cynical
Speaker 1: and skeptical and negative, it only makes it worse for
Speaker 1: us and worse for everyone around us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let me tell you I can. I can, and
Speaker 2: I can be cynical, and I can be all of that.
Speaker 2: And I don't want to set myself because in these
Speaker 2: times it's hard. No one is perfect. But I try
Speaker 2: to keep that to my kitchen table, you know. I mean,
Speaker 2: I feel like when you have a platform and you
Speaker 2: have a voice, there is a responsibility to use that wisely.
Speaker 2: So yes, I yes, even I in going high, there
Speaker 2: are times I want to go low and I need
Speaker 2: to let that out. But I'm never going to let
Speaker 2: that out in public because that's not even fully truly,
Speaker 2: how I feel, you know, so just for our listeners
Speaker 2: and viewers, it's like, yes, of course we all feel it.
Speaker 2: It's just a question of how do we act on it.
Speaker 3: And you hear this, This is why we're doing imo, yes, right,
Speaker 3: It's just to be able to take the lessons we've
Speaker 3: learned and the experiences that we've gone through, and hers
Speaker 3: being at the level of the White House and mine
Speaker 3: being what they are sort of I'm still the regular
Speaker 3: guy in the family. We're hoping that we can share
Speaker 3: some of these with folks and learn some things from
Speaker 3: the people that we have on Like you, just listening
Speaker 3: to her do that, this is the most fun I
Speaker 3: am having, other than hanging with my kids and my family.
Speaker 3: I just get goosebumps when when you hear some good wisdom.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean that totally, like you know it
Speaker 1: just it was just such a refreshing take on what
Speaker 1: I was saying, was is a valid concern, is a
Speaker 1: natural feeling that people are having. But to flip the
Speaker 1: script in our own minds as to how we deal
Speaker 1: with it and that constant battle that we have to
Speaker 1: have with the thoughts in our head. And I love
Speaker 1: what you're doing with im I mean, I was so
Speaker 1: grateful to be a guest on the show and to
Speaker 1: visit you both in Martha's Vineyard, which was last year.
Speaker 4: I think it was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And first of all, I'm just so grateful when
Speaker 1: I see doing it with families just special because already
Speaker 1: you're seeing sides of each other that you never see elsewhere,
Speaker 1: so you can tell how authentic and real it is
Speaker 1: and true it is, which is so beautiful. And on
Speaker 1: top of that, what I love about it the most
Speaker 1: is that I feel the fact that you're doing a podcast,
Speaker 1: which is the most accessible platform where you're giving I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, when we were on like questions coming in
Speaker 1: from the audience that we were tackling together trying to
Speaker 1: hear from both of your experiences. And by the way, Craig,
Speaker 1: you're saying that you you know, the normal, regular person
Speaker 1: and the family, I mean, like you know, everyone has
Speaker 1: a regular life. You know, it's amazing to hear it
Speaker 1: from both of your sides. And the fact that you're
Speaker 1: opening up, even just the way you did now about
Speaker 1: these real life experiences that you've both had, I think
Speaker 1: it's so needed because I think the challenge is that
Speaker 1: when people do have success as both of you have had,
Speaker 1: and the incredible heights of success that you've had, you
Speaker 1: forget that. So someone was once scared that they were
Speaker 1: told they were stealing a bike, or you know, that
Speaker 1: they were scared about going down this particular street in
Speaker 1: their neighborhood. And that's where so many people start out.
Speaker 1: And it's not saying that everyone has to go and
Speaker 1: achieve things externally in the world to get out of that,
Speaker 1: but these are real emotions. And I think what you
Speaker 1: were saying to me that resonated just now, Michelle, was
Speaker 1: this idea that you've had to push yourself out of
Speaker 1: that comfort zone and your parents wanted you to not
Speaker 1: have that. What amazing parenting? Yeah, I mean, what phenomenal
Speaker 1: parenting when you have every reason to scare your kids
Speaker 1: into a corner, but you actually use it to expand
Speaker 1: their vision up to the whole world.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's we were blessed, Jay, and the older
Speaker 2: we get, the further down life's path we go as
Speaker 2: we parent and parent young kids and adult kids, we've
Speaker 2: come to appreciate how rare our parents' perspectives were for
Speaker 2: or anyone, let alone for people in their circumstances. Which
Speaker 2: is another thing reason why it's like, well, let's create
Speaker 2: a bigger kitchen table. I mean, with the loss of
Speaker 2: our mom this year, that was also a big impetus
Speaker 2: to do this podcast, because the wisdom that she gave us,
Speaker 2: it lives in us and as people who were raised
Speaker 2: to be givers and to be mentors and to gain
Speaker 2: joy from that mentorship. Truly, that's sort of a shared
Speaker 2: attribute in both of us being able to take that
Speaker 2: wisdom and I don't want to spread it to the world,
Speaker 2: but to just let other people benefit from the little
Speaker 2: nuggets of wisdom that our parents laid out in that
Speaker 2: kitchen table, It's like, why not share it? You know,
Speaker 2: the power of good parenting is too often underestimated, and
Speaker 2: I think our parents came into parenting with a philosophy
Speaker 2: like philosophy, and when you think of how most people
Speaker 2: think of parenting, they just think, I want to have
Speaker 2: a baby, And that's where it begins. It ends, I
Speaker 2: want to have a baby. But then the question is, well,
Speaker 2: why why do you want to have a baby. Do
Speaker 2: you want to have a baby because you're lonely, that's
Speaker 2: not gonna work out. Well, do you want to have
Speaker 2: a baby to create a mini me to continue on
Speaker 2: some aspect of yourself that you didn't achieve. Oof, that's
Speaker 2: going to be a messy kind of situation. Are you
Speaker 2: lonely and you want a companion? Do you want a friend?
Speaker 2: I mean, if we actually sit down and piece that
Speaker 2: stuff apart before we have kids, because parenting is a
Speaker 2: hard thing. I think our parents, or at least our
Speaker 2: mother for sure, she wanted parents because she felt the
Speaker 2: importance of raising independent, kind, compassionate people adults, Like she
Speaker 2: always said, I'm not raising babies, I'm raising adults. And
Speaker 2: that completely shifts your approach as to how you parent
Speaker 2: if you're not like just trying to raise a friend.
Speaker 2: Because let me tell you, if you want a friend,
Speaker 2: you never want your friend to be mad at you, right.
Speaker 2: You want your friend to like you. And if you're
Speaker 2: a parent and you're worried about whether your kid likes you,
Speaker 2: I guarantee you you are screwing them up, right, because
Speaker 2: so much of parenting means that you have to suffer
Speaker 2: through them gritting under their teeth of ooh oh, mommy,
Speaker 2: make me so mad? Why don't you ever? You know?
Speaker 2: And it's like you can have those feelings you know.
Speaker 2: But as my girls say that, their favorite phrase of
Speaker 2: mind is I'm not one of your little friends. It's like,
Speaker 2: you don't have to like me. I've got my own friends.
Speaker 2: So you can don't slam your door. You can go
Speaker 2: in your room, you can say whatever you want, but
Speaker 2: you better not let me hear it. And when you
Speaker 2: come out, you still have to do it because I
Speaker 2: am not raising you to be my friend. I'm raising
Speaker 2: you to be a human, responsible adult in the world.
Speaker 2: And that's how our mother raised us. And I always say,
Speaker 2: if everybody took that to heart before they had kids,
Speaker 2: and they treat it parenting in that way, that would
Speaker 2: solve a lot of the mess we're trying to deal
Speaker 2: with right now. If parents just approached the job like
Speaker 2: this is the biggest, most important thing that I'm doing,
Speaker 2: and it isn't about me. It is about who this
Speaker 2: little human is going to be and how they're going
Speaker 2: to enter the world and are they going to be empathetic?
Speaker 2: Are they going to be responsible? Are they going to
Speaker 2: be an asshole out here? And you start doing that
Speaker 2: when they're two and three and for all of that work,
Speaker 2: is it starts that early? That's you know, if I
Speaker 2: think of a mission for myself right now. Today, it's
Speaker 2: really like having us all rethink the way we are
Speaker 2: building the next generation and what our duties and our
Speaker 2: responsibilities are, what we're getting right and what we haven't
Speaker 2: been getting right, and how do we self correct. I'm
Speaker 2: really like on one for just that thing, because we're
Speaker 2: not going to be able to count on the government,
Speaker 2: you know, I mean we're not right now. We're not
Speaker 2: investing in education, so we can't you know, we're not
Speaker 2: paying teachers enough. We're leaving this all on us. We're
Speaker 2: saying we don't want to pay taxes for any of
Speaker 2: this stuff, right, so we sure as hell better be
Speaker 2: good at taking care of our kids because now we're saying, well,
Speaker 2: then it's all on us and we can't afford to
Speaker 2: get it wrong.
Speaker 1: Mic Drop, that was like, that really hits hard. I mean,
Speaker 1: that resonates so strongly, and I feel, as I was
Speaker 1: listening to you, it's in one sense, and I want
Speaker 1: to ask you this about this parents. I'm not a
Speaker 1: parent yet, and partly it's because me and my wife
Speaker 1: have these discussions. We talk a lot about what our
Speaker 1: parenting philosophy is, and we've talked about it over the
Speaker 1: years that we've been together. We've been together now for
Speaker 1: twelve years and married for nine, and it's been a
Speaker 1: topic of conversation and there's been things we haven't agreed on.
Speaker 1: There's things we agree on, and we want to make
Speaker 1: sure that we have an aligned viewpoint, even if we
Speaker 1: have slight differences. We want to have an aligned viewpoint
Speaker 1: of because we want the kids to get a clear message.
Speaker 1: We don't want them to get Mom and dad have
Speaker 1: different viewpoints and they're you know, they're arguing about trying
Speaker 1: to figure it out, and it's hard. And I wanted
Speaker 1: to ask you about this parents to think, you know,
Speaker 1: you've both lived incredibly successful life. You went to the
Speaker 1: best schools in the country. You know, you went on
Speaker 1: to pivot and have an amazing career in your passion
Speaker 1: of basketball. Like to even be able to do that
Speaker 1: as a coach is incredible. Great right to be able
Speaker 1: to pivot, which I'm sure took sacrifice and stress, And
Speaker 1: I want to link it to parenting and of course
Speaker 1: Michelle going to the White House raising kids while you're
Speaker 1: at the White House, leaving them continuing, how did you
Speaker 1: put parenting as a priority despite prioritizing your passion, prioritizing
Speaker 1: the country and service, prioritizing your own marriages. Like I
Speaker 1: feel like there's so much pressure on parents. We just said,
Speaker 1: we can't rely on school, we can't rely on the government,
Speaker 1: can't realize So that means it's all in this person.
Speaker 1: How does a parent take that pressure in a way
Speaker 1: that uplifts them and allows them to pursue their greatness too,
Speaker 1: rather than feel completely paralyzed by it.
Speaker 3: The first thing that comes to my mind is that,
Speaker 3: as Meche said, we were so blessed to have such
Speaker 3: good parents. I feel obligated to be a great parent
Speaker 3: as a tribute to my own parents.
Speaker 2: Well, you also know what a great parent looks like.
Speaker 3: I do know what a great parent looks like. But
Speaker 3: I also am so thankful for the sacrifices that they
Speaker 3: made so that we could thrive.
Speaker 4: And it makes sense.
Speaker 3: And irrespective of whatever my passion is, which is basketball
Speaker 3: or coaching or mentoring, the first responsibility I have are
Speaker 3: to the four kids that I brought into this world.
Speaker 3: And that's an easy one jay for me to do.
Speaker 3: So if I had to sacrifice my passion for my kids,
Speaker 3: I would have Fortunately, coaching is a terrific environment to
Speaker 3: raise kids because you're around other young people, and it
Speaker 3: really is like having fifteen kids instead of just four.
Speaker 3: I would say there is a discipline that comes with it,
Speaker 3: and you talked about this being aligned. We call it
Speaker 3: united front in our house. No matter what we're thinking,
Speaker 3: we are going to come to an agreement when it
Speaker 3: comes to all right, let's give some advice to this kids.
Speaker 4: This is the advice.
Speaker 3: Sometimes it's what Kelly wants and sometimes it's what I.
Speaker 4: Want my wife Kelly.
Speaker 3: So there's a coordinated communication, there's discipline, and then most
Speaker 3: of all, and I think I hear the word me
Speaker 3: time and parents of these young parents. You know, my
Speaker 3: parents never talked about me time. Their me time was
Speaker 3: our time. And I know from a mental health standpoint,
Speaker 3: we all need to get away and be on our own.
Speaker 3: But I would do that after I made sure my
Speaker 3: kids were solidly on good footing, before I was worried
Speaker 3: about I need a vacation with my boys to go
Speaker 3: to Vegas. And I just saw my dad and you
Speaker 3: talked to about it. He was a shift worker for
Speaker 3: the City of Chicago, but he made time no matter
Speaker 3: what shift he was on to attend our events, to
Speaker 3: play with us when he got home, no matter how tired.
Speaker 4: He was, he made us the priority.
Speaker 3: So it's not hard work for It doesn't feel like
Speaker 3: it's hard work for me and for us. We just
Speaker 3: had really good role models and we were well coached
Speaker 3: in parenting.
Speaker 2: Well, when you think of talk about the pressure, I
Speaker 2: do think that these days parents feel a lot of pressure.
Speaker 2: But we're like taking on the wrong pressure. Like we
Speaker 2: feel responsible for our kids' happiness and success, right, so
Speaker 2: we put a lot of pressure on making sure they achieve,
Speaker 2: like making sure they don't fail, making sure they don't
Speaker 2: feel bad or they don't experience disc appointments. So a
Speaker 2: lot of that emotional energy we're taking on is in
Speaker 2: my view, it's misdirected and it takes a lot of energy.
Speaker 2: If you think that you're responsible for your kids to
Speaker 2: happiness right, and it's it's a whole lot of energy
Speaker 2: if you think your kids should always be happy. I
Speaker 2: mean that's a current parenting generational angst. Like no generations
Speaker 2: before us, you know, cared about whether their kids were happy,
Speaker 2: let alone being responsible for your happiness or that you
Speaker 2: should be happy all the time. It feels like that's
Speaker 2: a new phenomenon, right, you know. I mean we just
Speaker 2: think of all the work that we do to keep
Speaker 2: our kids busy and you know, engage, and we sign
Speaker 2: them up for this and sign them up for that,
Speaker 2: and you know, we're taking them here and we're taking
Speaker 2: them there instead of just going go. Maybe you're going
Speaker 2: to be bored today. You know, what are we doing
Speaker 2: on Saturday? Mom? When I was growing up, the answer
Speaker 2: was nothing, you know, and my mother went on with
Speaker 2: her day. You know, we're kind of taking on a
Speaker 2: lot of that. My mom always said that I am
Speaker 2: going to help you own your life as early as possible,
Speaker 2: so you know, so that it's not my life. It's
Speaker 2: not my failure, it's not my homework, it's not my
Speaker 2: going to school, it's yours. And when you start giving
Speaker 2: your kids their lives early, which means you got to
Speaker 2: let go, there's a worry in that. But if you
Speaker 2: start letting go, it's like you got to wake yourself up.
Speaker 2: You gotta make your bed, you gotta wash your plate,
Speaker 2: you can get to school, you can figure it out.
Speaker 2: You got to figure it out. And I think these
Speaker 2: days parents don't want to. They don't want that process
Speaker 2: of watching their kids figure it out. And I get it.
Speaker 2: It is hard to watch the person that you love
Speaker 2: literally walk into a wall that you see, you know,
Speaker 2: because our instinct as parents go besweety, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: you were walking right into a wall. Let me stop
Speaker 2: you and sit you here and be safe with me.
Speaker 2: Now I feel better, right, And the truth is is
Speaker 2: that sometimes, at least I've learned with my kids, they
Speaker 2: have to walk into that wall, they have to bump
Speaker 2: their head hard, and it hurts me to see it.
Speaker 2: But I found that they learn faster that way than
Speaker 2: me keeping them from bumping their heads, and there's a
Speaker 2: release with that. It's like it's a different kind of
Speaker 2: difficult thing that you're dealing with, right, You're dealing with
Speaker 2: your own emotions and watching somebody that you care about
Speaker 2: go through tough stuff. But there's no other way to
Speaker 2: get them to be independent other than dealing with that pain. Right.
Speaker 2: And I always say, as I told Barack, I was like,
Speaker 2: you know, we either do this stuff early and deal
Speaker 2: with it, have these hard kind of conversations, deal with
Speaker 2: these mistakes and failures when they're ten and five and thirteen.
Speaker 2: Then rather than having them live in our basement at
Speaker 2: thirty five for the rest of their lives. It's like,
Speaker 2: I don't want a kid in my basement. So I've
Speaker 2: been Our parents parented us not to be in their basement.
Speaker 2: You pay your bills, you handle your business. That's our model.
Speaker 2: Are you handling your business? That's a certain kind of parenting.
Speaker 2: But if you make that investment early, you know, if
Speaker 2: you do the hard things, if you make your kids
Speaker 2: sleep in their bed, if you tell them no when
Speaker 2: they're five, if you teach them boundaries and don't let
Speaker 2: them talk back and help them be socialized beings by
Speaker 2: setting forth some real hard to manage boundaries at three
Speaker 2: and four and five, you're not even dealing with a
Speaker 2: lot of these issues at sixteen because they've practiced something
Speaker 2: else in your presence. And so now sixteen twenty, our
Speaker 2: girls are All of our kids are joys to be with.
Speaker 2: They all live on their own. Our kids have an
Speaker 2: Obama tax that we will continue to pay just to
Speaker 2: cost on their life that is not their own. So
Speaker 2: there's certain places that they cannot live, where they can
Speaker 2: afford to live. There's certain things like that. But all
Speaker 2: of our kids, they don't want our help because they
Speaker 2: get gratification in saying they did this, and that comes
Speaker 2: down to choosing the college that they're going to go to.
Speaker 2: I may not agree with you, it happened. It's like,
Speaker 2: I don't think you're gonna like that school, but it's
Speaker 2: got to be your choice. You know, I don't think
Speaker 2: you're going to like that girlfriend, it's got to be
Speaker 2: your choice. I gotta look the other way. I gotta
Speaker 2: and then I've got to be there with you after
Speaker 2: you make that mistake, going it's okay, let's talk about it,
Speaker 2: you learn, let's you know. But I my mother was
Speaker 2: staying out of our lives very early in our lives,
Speaker 2: and I think that's something that makes parenting easy in
Speaker 2: one way but emotionally difficult in another way.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and I really really appreciate the clarification of
Speaker 1: reprioritizing that pressure, because the pressure we're placing, as you said,
Speaker 1: on the winning, the succeeding, the it's almost misplaced. There's
Speaker 1: a distinction that I'm hearing from both of you in
Speaker 1: coddling an individual and cultivating independence. And when we think
Speaker 1: of more love or more support, we think fix solve
Speaker 1: control is done right. That's what we think love is.
Speaker 1: We think love means you have no problems. We took
Speaker 1: care of everything, and we're here for everything that you need.
Speaker 1: And actually, what we've realized is love is setting someone
Speaker 1: up to carry themselves exactly and fix themselves instead of themselves.
Speaker 2: And feeling the confidence in being able to do that.
Speaker 2: They competence is love too. And you know, I always
Speaker 2: want my kids to know that I do trust that
Speaker 2: you have good sense. I do you can do this,
Speaker 2: Watch you do it, and just see how kids light
Speaker 2: up when they accomplish something on their own. And when
Speaker 2: you're if you're the fixer, you're robbing your kids of
Speaker 2: that sense of self satisfaction. I fail, It hurt, but
Speaker 2: it was me. But when I succeed, it's also me
Speaker 2: and sometimes you know it's parents. We want that victory.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I was going to say.
Speaker 3: Mish does a good job talking about how people don't
Speaker 3: like friction, and sometimes you need friction as a parent,
Speaker 3: especially those who are doing the coddle. They're doing that
Speaker 3: for themselves. You are not helping your kid by doing it,
Speaker 3: because parenting this way is hard and it causes friction
Speaker 3: in your inside. When we say okay, you can take
Speaker 3: your scooter to the store and go pick up some
Speaker 3: stuff and bring it back.
Speaker 4: That's hard.
Speaker 3: It would have been easy for me to take you
Speaker 3: to the store and make sure you got back in
Speaker 3: the car. And nothing made me feel better about doing
Speaker 3: this kind of stuff was when I found out that
Speaker 3: our parents were deathly afraid of us traveling on our own.
Speaker 3: Mish had an opportunity to go to France. I played
Speaker 3: bitty basketball, and there was a trip to Kansas City
Speaker 3: and to New Orleans, and we came to find out
Speaker 3: later that our parents were fearful of us going on
Speaker 3: these but they we talked about the same reasons we
Speaker 3: talked about, but they did it anyway because they knew
Speaker 3: it was important for our development. And I just thinking
Speaker 3: about the adjita in their stomachs, ex when they're letting
Speaker 3: go of you.
Speaker 4: Know, your kids are leaving town and doing things they
Speaker 4: never did.
Speaker 2: They never did, They never got to travel when they
Speaker 2: were young. They didn't have the resources, they didn't go
Speaker 2: to college, they didn't go off their block, out of
Speaker 2: their neighborhoods. You know, So imagine the fear of sending
Speaker 2: your kids to do something going out Princeton, you know,
Speaker 2: the day they let him leave to go to some
Speaker 2: school in some place where they knew nothing about the rituals,
Speaker 2: the prestige, you know, the kind of confidence in your
Speaker 2: parenting philosophy that it would take to execute that. When
Speaker 2: we were growing up in a community where people's parents
Speaker 2: wouldn't even fill out their fasciforms because they were afraid
Speaker 2: of their kids going to college. So they held on
Speaker 2: to their kids. They said, go to the state school
Speaker 2: down the street because it will make me, deep down,
Speaker 2: it will make me feel better because I don't don't
Speaker 2: want to let you go. Don't go out of state,
Speaker 2: don't leave the home, don't go out of the neighborhood.
Speaker 2: A lot of parents parent out of fear, and it's
Speaker 2: fear for themselves. It's real fear, for sure, you know.
Speaker 2: Do not get me wrong. It is the hardest thing
Speaker 2: to do, which is what makes parenting so hard, which
Speaker 2: is why people really have to think before they bring
Speaker 2: kids into the world, because it's hard. It's hard in
Speaker 2: some really obvious reasons, and it's hard in some ways
Speaker 2: that you will never understand until that that little person
Speaker 2: is breathing in this world. How they will make you feel.
Speaker 2: You will love nothing more. So I understand it, but
Speaker 2: that's why we get a lot of it wrong because
Speaker 2: we're operating out of fear. Sometimes.
Speaker 1: We've talked a lot about the differences in how you
Speaker 1: were parented, how things have changed, and I feel like
Speaker 1: one of the biggest talking points of today for parents
Speaker 1: and children is therapy. Like therapy seems to be a
Speaker 1: conversation that's opened up that a previous generation either didn't
Speaker 1: have access to, didn't believe in, couldn't afford, didn't value,
Speaker 1: which some of those challenges still exist today with affordability
Speaker 1: and accessibility. But what have been your personal journeys with
Speaker 1: therapy as a form of working on your own self
Speaker 1: and then of course your children as well.
Speaker 3: I would say I was your typical guy when it
Speaker 3: came to therapy, and typical guy of color, because I
Speaker 3: wasn't exposed to therapy until I got to college and
Speaker 3: I found out that kids my age were going to
Speaker 3: therapy and I was like, well, what is going on
Speaker 3: in that head?
Speaker 4: Because I didn't understand it. Now you jump ahead.
Speaker 3: In my first marriage, that was when it hit, when
Speaker 3: it started to have trouble. We would go to couple's
Speaker 3: therapy and then I would go to therapy.
Speaker 4: On my own.
Speaker 3: And I really that my last statement about not knowing
Speaker 3: what therapy was and not doing it, I just did
Speaker 3: it in a different way. My therapy was the barbershop.
Speaker 3: It wasn't church for me because I wasn't a church goer.
Speaker 3: But for some people it's church. But for me, it
Speaker 3: is fellowship with my good friends that I can tell
Speaker 3: stuff to. But I wasn't a real therapy guy until
Speaker 3: I had trouble in my first marriage. But I'm happy
Speaker 3: to say that my two older children are regular therapy goers.
Speaker 3: And it just warms my heart because it wasn't like
Speaker 3: I said, you know, you guys should go to therapy.
Speaker 4: They just kind of did it on themselves. So I
Speaker 4: am a big believer in it.
Speaker 3: And I'm sure people have used this analogy before, but
Speaker 3: we tune up just about everything in our lives.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: We tune up our cars, we tune up our electronics,
Speaker 3: but we don't tune up our minds and our emotions.
Speaker 4: And we should. And I have to say that.
Speaker 3: You got into therapy, I think before I did, and
Speaker 3: that kind of opened my eyes to it too, even
Speaker 3: before I was having trouble in my marriage.
Speaker 4: So you can share share your experience.
Speaker 2: Now, I believe in all the therapies that Craig just outlined.
Speaker 2: I believe in the friendship therapy. I believe in the
Speaker 2: power of sharing your challenges with other people that you trust,
Speaker 2: and that can come in many forms, and it has
Speaker 2: for me. I am a talker and I think you know,
Speaker 2: our family was you know, our first therapy was the
Speaker 2: kitchen table right right, and our first therapists were our
Speaker 2: parents and our family members. Because you'd have an experience
Speaker 2: that you needed to it's something you needed to let
Speaker 2: off your chest, something you had to let go of.
Speaker 2: And we have parents that create did a safe space
Speaker 2: to speak openly and honestly. They didn't treat us like
Speaker 2: children at that table. They treated us like thinking beings.
Speaker 2: So it was very early on that we learned the
Speaker 2: power of our own thoughts and to trust our own emotions.
Speaker 2: And with something felt off, you know, we were encouraged
Speaker 2: as like, no, you're not crazy, you're seeing what you're seeing,
Speaker 2: and yeah, you're angry, that anger is real, but you
Speaker 2: can't show it this way.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: We were validated at our table, and that's what therapy is.
Speaker 2: It's a validation, and so very early on, I sought
Speaker 2: out the company of girlfriends, friends I could trust and
Speaker 2: that we could talk to and we could have that
Speaker 2: validation and present honestly. And as I said in my
Speaker 2: book The Light, you know, I cultivated those tables throughout
Speaker 2: my life. You know I had that those table. I
Speaker 2: needed that table in college when I was we were
Speaker 2: one of a few black kids on an all white
Speaker 2: Ivy League school campus. We needed a safe place to go,
Speaker 2: which might have been the Third World Center, right where
Speaker 2: minority students gathered. I found a mentor in an older
Speaker 2: administrator who was my confidant during those days, small mini sessions.
Speaker 2: Right then, when I got married and started having kids,
Speaker 2: I built this amazing community. We built together, this amazing
Speaker 2: community of moms parenting young, young kids and babies. And
Speaker 2: we started getting together every Saturday, taking our kids to
Speaker 2: all the activities, but sitting around, maybe opening a bottle
Speaker 2: of champagne and shedding our feelings and our fears and
Speaker 2: exchanging ideas. But I've also been to a formal therapist because,
Speaker 2: as Craig said, I think we need to be coached
Speaker 2: throughout our lives, and I think therapy is a form
Speaker 2: of coaching where somebody objective can come in and say,
Speaker 2: have you thought about this? Yes, this way, you're entering
Speaker 2: a new phase of life. How are you thinking about it?
Speaker 2: Having somebody that has a skill set to help you
Speaker 2: shape a paradigm. I fully believe in that. I believe
Speaker 2: in couples therapy. I believe I believe in it all.
Speaker 2: Whatever works for you. And at this you know, phase
Speaker 2: of my life, I'm in therapy right now because I'm transitioning.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm sixty years old. I've finished a really
Speaker 2: hard thing in my life with my family intact, I'm
Speaker 2: an empty nester. My girls are in you know, they've
Speaker 2: been launched. And now for the first time, as I've
Speaker 2: said before, every choice that I'm making is completely mine.
Speaker 2: I now don't have the excuse of, well, my kids
Speaker 2: need this, or my husband needs that, or the country
Speaker 2: needs that. So how do I think about this next phase?
Speaker 2: And let me get some help. Let me unwind some
Speaker 2: old habits, let me sort through some old guilt that
Speaker 2: I've been carrying around. Let me talk about how my
Speaker 2: relationship with my mother has affected how I think about things.
Speaker 2: So I'm getting that tune up for this next phase.
Speaker 2: Because I believe this is a whole nother phase in
Speaker 2: life for me, and I now have the wisdom to
Speaker 2: know let me let me go get some coaching while
Speaker 2: I'm doing it, so I've got other voices other than
Speaker 2: people the people who know me best. I've got a
Speaker 2: new person that's getting to know me and seeing me
Speaker 2: completely new and hearing all these emotions. I am an
Speaker 2: advocate of it. Everybody needs to find their form of
Speaker 2: it the best way they can. For some people, it's
Speaker 2: podcasts like ours, you know, that are providing people with
Speaker 2: that therapy. And it's one of the reasons why I'm
Speaker 2: excited about doing these things, coming on yours and developing IMO,
Speaker 2: because I hope that maybe for the people who are
Speaker 2: a little bit skeptical of it, that these forms become
Speaker 2: the place where they start at least getting some ideas,
Speaker 2: you know, and thinking wow, I never thought of it
Speaker 2: that way. I never saw it that way. And maybe
Speaker 2: they'll never go to therapy, but they come here for
Speaker 2: ninety minutes and they, you know, they find some answers
Speaker 2: for themselves. I firmly believe in it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love what you were saying about needing them
Speaker 1: at transitions where shape shifting and molding, and it's almost
Speaker 1: like ever since someone graduates, if they went to college,
Speaker 1: it's like from that point on you just left to
Speaker 1: figure it out. And it's almost like they were these markers,
Speaker 1: Like when you went from elementary school to high school
Speaker 1: to college, there were markers, and there were transitions, and
Speaker 1: there were summers in between where you knew what was
Speaker 1: coming next. And then you become an adult and then
Speaker 1: now there's not really the well, there are the markers
Speaker 1: of get married, you have kids, you get to a
Speaker 1: career success or whatever it is, the kids leave, as
Speaker 1: you said, but there's no real transitionary summers anymore. There's
Speaker 1: not not everyone's talking to you about, hey, what's going on.
Speaker 1: And also there's less there's less formal training for those
Speaker 1: transitions that are so emotionally tough because you're you're almost
Speaker 1: grieving an identity you had, but then knowing there's a
Speaker 1: new version that exists, and that push and pull of
Speaker 1: do I stay or do I go in all of
Speaker 1: areas of your life. And I wonder, Michelle, from your
Speaker 1: perspective and then of course from yours as well, Craig,
Speaker 1: like and you mentioned their guilt, like I was like,
Speaker 1: what was the what is the guilt that you feel
Speaker 1: you you're having to learn to let go of or
Speaker 1: in the beautiful upbringing you had, like what were the
Speaker 1: things that you're like? But these are certain ideas that
Speaker 1: aren't serving us anymore or aren't helping to who.
Speaker 2: Much is given, much is expected. I feel incredibly blessed
Speaker 2: in this life, you know, And it's almost like knocking
Speaker 2: on wood. It's like, let me never take it for granted,
Speaker 2: let me always find ways of giving back. And so
Speaker 2: the guilt comes from am I doing enough? You know,
Speaker 2: which is a form of am I enough? Right? That's
Speaker 2: the guilt of feeling should I do this next thing?
Speaker 2: Should I say yes? When I say no, I mean
Speaker 2: because there's so many requests, there's so much you can
Speaker 2: possibly do in life that you could never stop. And
Speaker 2: I do hold guilt to tell somebody that is asking
Speaker 2: for help or need something to say I can't or
Speaker 2: I don't want to, you know, I need to even
Speaker 2: say those words. It's hard to I don't want to
Speaker 2: do that right now. It's like unpacking that right. So
Speaker 2: to say that too for me, Michelle Obama, to say
Speaker 2: that to a therapist, you know, I mean, my therapist
Speaker 2: is like, what you still think you haven't done it?
Speaker 2: And I was like, honestly, yeah, it's like so let's
Speaker 2: unpack that, right. So yeah, that's you know, that's probably
Speaker 2: what overachievers. We're all dealing with that in some way. Right,
Speaker 2: when's enough's enough? Where's the bar? Who sets it? We're
Speaker 2: setting it for ourselves, and we keep setting it so
Speaker 2: incredibly high right at all times, and then I'm thinking about, oh,
Speaker 2: what am I modeling for my girls? It's like at
Speaker 2: some point, you know, I used to say this to
Speaker 2: Rosalind Carter, you know, you the Carters. They were giving
Speaker 2: until they were you know, they couldn't walk, you know.
Speaker 2: And when I was in the White House, every year
Speaker 2: Rosalind Carter was set up a meeting, you know, because
Speaker 2: she want to talk to a set of issues and
Speaker 2: things she wanted to do and update me on everything.
Speaker 4: She was just she was just, she was she.
Speaker 2: They were those people constantly doing it. And I used
Speaker 2: to joke with her when she was in how must
Speaker 2: she have been when I'm in office? That requires math.
Speaker 2: So let's say she was in her early eighties or
Speaker 2: you know, she was an older woman who had done
Speaker 2: enough and I used to joke it's like, if you
Speaker 2: don't stop, because you're my bar, right, And I don't
Speaker 2: know that I want to be coming to the White
Speaker 2: House with an agenda list when I'm in my eighties, right.
Speaker 2: But then I realized it's like, well, that's her bar.
Speaker 2: That doesn't have to be my bar. What if my
Speaker 2: bar is different? And so now I'm practicing out some
Speaker 2: different bars for myself, right, some different limits, and seeing
Speaker 2: how I really feel in those limits rather than what
Speaker 2: I think I'm supposed to do. So you know, that's
Speaker 2: you know, it just makes me sigh just saying it,
Speaker 2: but that's how my brain works, and so sometimes you
Speaker 2: need help with right sizing your thinking.
Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing that being so open and vulnerable,
Speaker 1: because I know it takes a lot to be able
Speaker 1: to say what you're saying in therapy, to say it
Speaker 1: out loud, and I can see the emotion in your
Speaker 1: face that it's not you know, something you're grappling with,
Speaker 1: it's real. So you're working on it right now. And
Speaker 1: I hope that gives everyone who's listening. I know it
Speaker 1: will give everyone who's listening and watching courage to think, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, like maybe I'm setting the boss too high
Speaker 1: for myself, you know whatever. That maybe or a different question,
Speaker 1: but thank you, Yeah, Craig.
Speaker 3: I'd love to No, no, no, that's I actually thought
Speaker 3: me she was going to touch on this a little earlier.
Speaker 3: But our mom whent and you've been so gracious to
Speaker 3: say nice things about us and our success and all
Speaker 3: the wonderful things that we've been able to do.
Speaker 4: Marian Robinson.
Speaker 3: Our mom used to say, my kids aren't any different
Speaker 3: from the kids they grew up with, and she is
Speaker 3: absolutely right. She would say, I was fortunate enough not
Speaker 3: to have to go to work, and we encourage them
Speaker 3: to work hard. They never said you had to get
Speaker 3: straight a's. They just said work hard, have high self esteem,
Speaker 3: you know, treat people nicely. But she always bragged on
Speaker 3: the kids who we grew up with, and kids around
Speaker 3: the globe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she would say, there are a million machiness.
Speaker 3: She would say that, and that's I take that to heart,
Speaker 3: and that's where my guilt is. I am fortunate to
Speaker 3: be sitting here talking to Jay Shetty in his studio
Speaker 3: about myself. It's just as it's almost embarrassing because I
Speaker 3: feel like my mom, like I grew up with a
Speaker 3: ton of guys who could have been bond traders, could
Speaker 3: have been easy, and they just had some different decisions
Speaker 3: and different parenting and different different bumps in the road
Speaker 3: that they couldn't handle.
Speaker 4: And I do feel guilty about that.
Speaker 2: Which survivors remorse.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it explains my sort of wanting to be
Speaker 3: philanthropic with my time, my emotions, my stories, because they're
Speaker 3: but for the grace of God.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: And so she when when she would say that, I
Speaker 3: would it'd be like, what are you going to say?
Speaker 3: She's absolutely right? She is absolutely right, and she was.
Speaker 3: She led by example. So not only did she parent us,
Speaker 3: but she was up at the school parenting other people, helping.
Speaker 3: I remember when she taught this kid how to multiply,
Speaker 3: and she said, like a before there were room parents,
Speaker 3: she just came up and volunteered. And she was teaching
Speaker 3: this young kid who was in my grade, fourth grade,
Speaker 3: how to multiply and he just couldn't figure it out.
Speaker 3: And she said, multiplication is just adding multiple times and
Speaker 3: he was like, well, I can't figure this out, and
Speaker 3: she said, use your fingers, and he said, I don't
Speaker 3: want to use my fingers. I'm in fourth grade, I'm
Speaker 3: embarrassed to use my fingers, and my mom would.
Speaker 4: Say, well, then don't show anybody.
Speaker 3: Just put your hand on your desk and press down
Speaker 3: on your fingers.
Speaker 4: I was like, that's ingenious, that's ingenious.
Speaker 3: But she was sharing the kind of knowledge with others
Speaker 3: that we got that every day, every day when you
Speaker 3: know so, I feel a little bit of survivor's guilt
Speaker 3: when it comes to the opportunities that I've had in
Speaker 3: my life, because I do feel like she does that
Speaker 3: it could have been anybody.
Speaker 1: You've both been so gracious and generous with your time today.
Speaker 1: I could truly talk to you for another three hours,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to end with one last question for
Speaker 1: you each, well maybe two, maybe one. One one last
Speaker 1: question for you each. It would be for you to
Speaker 1: share with each other what you believe your mother would
Speaker 1: be most proud of, but of each other.
Speaker 2: All right, I'm gonna make him start so that I
Speaker 2: don't start crying.
Speaker 1: If you could say what your mother would be most
Speaker 1: proud about, Michelle, if she was here with us today.
Speaker 3: But if you can, there's so many things that my
Speaker 3: mom would be proud of. She would be proud of
Speaker 3: her as a parent. Well, another one of her greatest
Speaker 3: compliments was the fact that she never had to worry
Speaker 3: about her grandkids. That that warms both of our hearts because,
Speaker 3: as me said, you know, our older kids are off
Speaker 3: and running and not bounced back. And that made her
Speaker 3: felt feel like she taught us how to be good parents.
Speaker 2: And I think and it was the gift of allowing
Speaker 2: her to be just grandma.
Speaker 3: Just a cool grandma, because she didn't have to discipline, discipline.
Speaker 4: Or raise or yeah house.
Speaker 3: She could just come over and candy for everybody, jump
Speaker 3: on the couch and do whatever you want. And she
Speaker 3: really relished in that role. I think I think she
Speaker 3: would be proud of Mesh for that. I think she
Speaker 3: would be proud of how Miche has been able to
Speaker 3: have a colossal effect on so many people. And that
Speaker 3: is white House. Notwithstanding white House is gone. Look look
Speaker 3: at what she's doing now, I mean it is It
Speaker 3: is a massive, massive lift, uplift for so many people
Speaker 3: who don't get to to you know, be her sister,
Speaker 3: be her brother, or be her husband or or child.
Speaker 3: So I think those are two really good things. But
Speaker 3: most importantly, she would be very proud that she is
Speaker 3: a terrific wife because we all revered my father, all
Speaker 3: of us, my mom, the kids, all of our relatives.
Speaker 3: He was like the beacon in our family, and my
Speaker 3: mom was tough on him, but she loved him. And
Speaker 3: Mish reminds me of that with her relationship with Barack.
Speaker 3: Just because you the president of the United States doesn't
Speaker 3: mean you're getting off easy. My mom would like that,
Speaker 3: But then she would be like, he's got a lot
Speaker 3: of stuff going on. Don't be so hard on him,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. It's just I think she
Speaker 3: would appreciate that.
Speaker 2: I like that. It's the good ones.
Speaker 4: I'm a podcaster now.
Speaker 1: Run this UF for.
Speaker 2: What sums it up is that Mom would be so
Speaker 2: proud of the fact that you're a good man in
Speaker 2: the world and that you have been a good father,
Speaker 2: fathering for a long long time and passing on the
Speaker 2: that's a dig because he's an old dad, right, this
Speaker 2: is still long, long, long time, but passing on the wisdom,
Speaker 2: you know, showing up in the world in a way
Speaker 2: that would make Dad proud, living out his his his
Speaker 2: view of what it means to be a man, and
Speaker 2: then sharing that with a lot of other men. I
Speaker 2: mean the fact that she would be proud of the
Speaker 2: fact that you walked away from a lucrative career in
Speaker 2: finance to help other young men figure out how they
Speaker 2: can be fast and strong but good too and build
Speaker 2: a life for themselves. That you've taken that same that
Speaker 2: that same wisdom and you find always to continue to
Speaker 2: multiply it to who much is given. She'd be proud
Speaker 2: of that, and that you're still here right by my side.
Speaker 2: I think that would make her proud.
Speaker 1: Thank you both so much. I am so grateful to
Speaker 1: welcome you to the world of podcasting. I hope everyone
Speaker 1: who's listening and watching goes and subscribes to IMO. You're
Speaker 1: going to get so much wisdom, so much insight from
Speaker 1: two of the smartest, brightest minds, but two people who
Speaker 1: have such sweet, soft hearts. And I love that combination
Speaker 1: that you both bring of being absolutely bold powerhouses, but
Speaker 1: in the times I've got to know you both and
Speaker 1: spend with you both, you also have the most beautiful
Speaker 1: hearts and that combination is unstoppable, and I am so
Speaker 1: excited to see what you both do in.
Speaker 4: This next season of your life.
Speaker 2: Thanks you are family, Yes, sir, Yes, we just have
Speaker 2: to meet your sister.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're going to drag her up. We're going to
Speaker 4: drag her up here.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
Speaker 4: Thanks man.
Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this podcast, you're going to love my
Speaker 1: conversation with Michelle Obama where she opens up on how
Speaker 1: to stay with your partner when they're changing, and the
Speaker 1: four check ins you should be doing in your relationship.
Speaker 1: We also talk about how to deal with relationships when
Speaker 1: they're under stressed. If you're going through something right now
Speaker 1: with your partner or someone you're seeing, this is the
Speaker 1: episode for you.
Speaker 2: No wonder our kids are struggling. We have a new
Speaker 2: technology and we've just taken it in hookline and Sinker,
Speaker 2: and we have to be mindful for our kids. They'll
Speaker 2: just be thumbing through this stuff. You know, their mind's
Speaker 2: never sleeping