WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 16 0:00:00.920 --> 0:00:04.840 I'm Jake Halbern, host of deep Cover. Our new season 0:00:04.920 --> 0:00:07.760 is about a lawyer who helped the mob run Chicago. 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:11.080 He bribed judges and even helped a hit man walk 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:14.200 free until one day when he started talking with the 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:17.520 FBI and promised that he could take the mob down. 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:20.439 I've spent the past year trying to figure out why 0:00:20.440 --> 0:00:23.319 he flipped and what he was really after. Listen to 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:26.440 deep Cover on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:34.360 or wherever you get your podcasts. The Gangster Chronicles podcast 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:38.199 is a weekly conversation that revolves around underworld and criminals 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:41.519 and entertainers into victims, crime and law enforcement. We cover 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:45.400 all facets of the game. Gangster Chronicles podcast doesn't glorify 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:49.600 from motilicit activities. We just discussed the ramifications and repercussions 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:52.000 of these activities because at the law if she played 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:55.560 gamester games, you are ultimately rewarded with Gangster prizes. Our 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.600 Heart Radios number one for podcasts, but don't take our 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:01.320 word for it. Find a gainst the Chronicles podcast and 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:07.640 my Heart radio app, wherever you get your podcast. We've 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:10.440 all felt left out, and for people who moved to 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:13.760 this country, that feeling lasts more than a moment. We 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:17.000 can change that. Learn how it belonging begins with us 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:21.720 dot org, brought to you by the AD Council. Hey, everybody, 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:23.759 Robert Evans here and I wanted to let you know 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:27.480 this is a compilation episode. So every episode of the 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:31.280 week that just happened is here in one convenient and 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:34.600 with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:37.000 in a long stretch if you want. If you've been 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:39.160 listening to the episodes every day this week, there's gonna 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:41.240 be nothing new here for you, but you can make 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:49.280 your own decisions. Welcome everyone to the It Could Happening 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:53.880 a podcast. My name is said Andrew, and I'll be 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:58.600 a host as we talk about politics stuff with me. 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:05.720 Today is Garrison Hello, and Christopher Hello, and Sufi Hi. 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:11.120 And today we will be tackling or rather, we'll be 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:15.120 taking a trip to the anarchist activism in Latin America 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:18.920 with a specifies more. But first we need to get 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:23.040 into some context here. The first organization to promote the 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:27.440 concept of a specifies MOO was the Federation Anarchista Uruguaya 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:31.320 or the FAU, which is founded in nineteen fifty six 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:34.679 by anarchist Milton's who embraced the idea of an organization 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:40.080 there was specifically anarchist, but those who don't know, not 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:46.440 long after, rather two decades after six UM, the U 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:49.880 s instore the dictatorship in Uruguay. The lasted from nine 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:56.760 the FA you survived that dictatorship and went on to 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:01.200 establish connections with other South American anarchists re lutionaries. So 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:05.760 they helped to support the founding of the FAA Anarchista 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:09.160 Gaosha or fer g I don't know if I'm pronounced 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:14.480 that correctly, the Federal Anarchista KOLA and the Ferresha and 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:19.880 Arkista the Rio de Genero or the arch in their 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:23.200 respective regions of Brazil. And they also helped to found 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:30.040 the argentinean organization n as Alka, which means rebel. While 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:34.800 only coming onto stage in Latin America within the last 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:38.720 few decades. The ideas that really make up A specifies 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:42.320 more Tasha a historic threat that's really run through the 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:49.720 anarchist movement internationally since the beginning. UM. It may as 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:52.800 we get into like what is and stuff, it may 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:55.640 sound very similar to platform is UM. Are you all 0:03:55.640 --> 0:04:02.160 familiar with that current? Yeah? I'm familiar with platforms a 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:07.320 little bit, but we can probably, I don't know, explain 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:10.160 it for the people at at at home who are 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:13.320 not as who do not spend as much time thinking 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:18.880 about old, old, old anarchist terms, right right right, so 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:25.960 their generic listener or viewer or whatever UM platform is. 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:31.800 UM began with a document those written in nine by 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:35.840 the former Peasant Army leader Nestor Mark now either Met 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:41.039 and other militants of the Yellow Truda or Workers Cause group. 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:46.279 They published a document called Organizational Platform of the Libertarian Communists, 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:54.600 and it was written in response to well being exiled 0:04:54.640 --> 0:05:00.679 from the Russian Revolution UM and having to struggle really 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:04.599 to find their foots in after the Bolsheviks turn the 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:08.840 workers Soviets into instruments of one party rule. UM. So 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:12.240 the Power Space group did truder. They really criticized the 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:16.360 anarchist movement for a lack of organization. So they proposed 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:20.800 an alternative that is controversial to some anarchists, but it's 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:25.640 essentially a general union of anarchists based on anarchist communism 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:29.320 that would strive for theoretical and tactical unity and a 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:35.680 focus on class struggle and labor unions. Obviously platform is UM. 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:39.280 Like all political ideas, it's not a static you know, 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:45.440 the world has progressed sickness significantly in a century, so UM. 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:49.880 While there is an emphasis and workers struggle and class struggle. UM. 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:54.480 When he speak to most platforms today, I would say, UM, 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:56.640 obviously I don't have stats on that. I would say 0:05:56.640 --> 0:06:00.480 most platforms can recognize that, you know, the no war 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:06.040 with the class war is a bit reductive. Um. I've 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:08.800 also noticed, actually that platforms has been getting a bit 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:11.080 more popularity lately. I don't know if it's just me 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:14.359 and my perception, but I don't know if you all 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:18.760 seen that I have. I've not seen tons of it here. 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:23.160 A lot of the type of anarchism I'm around, or 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:26.120 at least see is is not is not in this vein. 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:29.360 But most most of the stuff I see is like 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:34.400 around UM, like the kind of like live anarchy type 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:41.320 kind of strains UM and more individualists. Right. But that's 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:44.600 just I think a very like Pacific Northwest specific thing 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:47.920 that the anarchists here just kind of generally trend in 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:51.039 that direction. So I'm not sure what it's literally like 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:55.400 across like this country in other places around the world. Yeah, 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:57.280 I know, I know, I know, I've definitely seen it 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:01.120 especially I think I think it's it's I don't know, 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:03.560 almost like it's bigger a few years ago. But back 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:08.359 like seen there is a big spike a black Rose 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:15.080 um serious group for a while. And yeah, people who 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:19.120 like called themselves like anarcho communists or anarcho syndicalists kind 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:23.679 of generally swam in this general ocean. Yeah, I definitely 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:26.920 saw that as a bigger thing in than now, at 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:29.760 least like locally from my area. And I think I 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:32.160 will say, yeah, the blacks people, a lot of them, 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:35.320 like very very specifically were specifi based on a lot 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:39.000 of it was based on like people who had like 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:46.280 experiences with a specifics various ways, right, right, Yeah, Because 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:48.040 I was actually just about to say, I think that 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:51.560 black Rose is more a specificity than Platformist. But of 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:54.520 course there is you know, a lot of overlap between 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:59.400 these two currents. Right. Um, As for my experience with 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:04.840 like plat with some and stuff, have seen um discussions 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:07.520 of it happening more. I mean, that's all I can 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:11.960 really see that I've seen, Um I have you ever 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:16.960 read once? But at least if discussions are happening the 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:20.720 likelihood of things coming out of it might be a 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:25.800 bit In Greece, I guess another current that has been 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:34.719 part of the anarchist milieu, psycheist wave whatever is organizational dualism, 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:37.880 which came out to the nineteen twenties Italian anarchist movement. 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:41.520 So they used the tomb to describe involvements of anarchists 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:46.600 both as members of anarchists specific political organizations and also 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:52.560 as militants in the labor movement. In Spain, the Friends 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:57.439 of Druti group emaged to oppose the Gradual Reviews cell 0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:02.600 the Smash Revolution, and they also ended up emulating some 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:05.960 of the ideas of the platform by criticizing you know, 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:12.280 cnt F phase, c ant f aiys gradual reformism and 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:17.320 collaboration with republican government. Um, So the spars of war 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:19.120 and stuff. You know, there's a lot of forces that 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:23.040 play and we're gonna get into now, but it is, 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:28.680 I would say, as a side note, important to recognize 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:33.000 that there is no model it when it comes to 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:36.960 like these sort of civil wars and historical events. Um, 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:39.560 you really have to look at things in context, and 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:42.199 you know, it's not trying to strip them away from 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:48.120 the goings on at the time. Also, the Chinese anarchist 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:52.439 movement of the nineteen tens um advocated for simil ideas. 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:55.400 I'm going to try to pronounce the name of the group, 0:09:55.960 --> 0:10:00.920 hopefully don't get castled, but it's the who Shuang Fu 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:06.600 Kongshan Jui Tong. She's a way, I think, which is 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:11.559 the Society of Anarchists Communist Comrades. And yeah, they advocated 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:13.880 for a lot of similar ideas. So there's a lot 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:18.080 of different currents around the world influenced by you know, 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:22.720 the historic conditions, but the general thread that you know, 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:27.040 anarchists need to get together and work as a unit 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:31.760 is you know what's thrust in it right and specifies 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:35.400 more is just a fresh continuation of this threat of 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:42.360 this trend. So what is what is the specifies more exactly? 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:48.280 The three key concepts UM that I see emphasized again 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:53.840 and again. One the need for specifically anarchists organization built 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:58.200 around a unity of ideas and practice. Two the use 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:01.920 of this specifically anarchist organize san to theorize and develop 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:07.160 strategic political and organizing work. And three active involvement in 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:11.680 and building of autonomous and popular social movements, which is 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:18.480 described as the process of social institution, so kind of 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:23.640 core to the whole specificity current is which is rather 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:26.480 anti tectical some of the trends that I've seen in 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:29.120 the past couple of years. It's sort of a rejection 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:33.000 of this left unity idea, right, this idea that there 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:37.160 can be these this sort of big tent organization that 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:47.160 can somehow establish all these different visions simultaneously. Right. So 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:52.920 a specificity reject the idea of just unity for unity's 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:55.320 sake because they feel it boils down to sort of 0:11:56.080 --> 0:12:00.360 Louist common denominate to kind of wishy washy politics. They 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:04.600 feel that when unity is preferred at all costs, it 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:08.960 leaves very little room for unified action or developed political discussion. 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:12.840 In fact, in my experience, when you have like a 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:19.160 lot of political heterogene um, there tends to be a 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:25.000 lot of unproductive drama lack of better word. Obviously, people 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:30.640 of different political stripes should work together um, and there's 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:35.040 no like harm in that. But at the same time, 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:38.800 when it comes to certain types of organizations, having a 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:44.560 sense of ideological unity is I would say pretty important, 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:47.400 as you know, you don't want to have all these 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:53.440 different groups constantly butting heads for all these different visions. 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:55.160 You know, you want to have at least some sense 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:57.560 that we're moving in sync. Right, So you're not going 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:02.400 to have some people who are trying to establish social 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:04.960 democracy and some people who are trying to get like 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:11.160 this workers state quote and quote, or you know, people 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:16.160 who just want I don't know, like a higher minimum reach. Right. 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:18.680 I mean, everyone's on a different stage of their political journey. 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:23.559 But what specificitys try to emphasize is that while we 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:30.079 can work within these larger social movements, um, it's important 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:37.040 that artists specifically come together to try to shape those 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:40.240 movements in an organized way. And I'll explain because it 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:43.640 kind of sounds a bit like vanguardism for some people, 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:48.400 this idea that you know, these this cabal of like 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:53.680 revolutionaries are trying to manipulate things behind the scenes. But um, 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:58.240 really what specificitys argue is that and I guess need 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:02.520 a space. They need space for like common strategy and 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:08.600 reflection and collective responsibility and you know a place to 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:13.760 discuss plans and build trust and share analysis and you know, 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:17.840 put together short and long term goals all that jazz. Um, 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:21.840 So will the Specificity do reach out to and work 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:25.880 with social movements regardless of whether they fit this code 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:29.320 and code anarchist purity test um. And I see that 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:33.040 with my tongue planted firmly and cheek of course, um. 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:36.400 They want to make sure that they can sue still 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:40.000 as an active minority, so that these movements aren't diluted. 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:43.240 And so I noticed IM like throwing out a lot 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:47.240 of different woods and freezers and ideas, um, you know, 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:51.760 things like ideological unity and the need for sort of 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:56.440 a consensus within the group. Um. And speaking of I've 0:14:56.480 --> 0:15:00.080 spoken about consensus on my channel before, so I have 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.400 a breakdown on it people to check out if they're like, um, 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:06.760 I was spoke of unified strategy, right, so you're not 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:10.520 just joking around. You actually have mapped out to the strategy, 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:14.120 like for example, Black socialists in America. They aren't like 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:17.840 a specifically a specificity or to my knowledge, but you 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:22.120 can see um that they have like a unified, like 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:24.920 clearly leader strategy and they're making moves to make it 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:30.200 to achieve it, and they're very public about those moves, right. Um. 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:32.800 I also I want to emphasize, of course, and the 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:37.640 specifies more the whole idea of this active minority. You know, 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:41.840 it's not just a bunch of like it sounds like 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:46.280 a passive book club, right. And a specificity group is 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.680 a group of people who are passionate about you know 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:55.280 this cause um, and obviously, passion people have this habit 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:59.160 of before they can more than they can chew. Right. 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:03.200 So what I would advise like a specificity and specificity 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:08.880 judgment adjacent groups and really just organizations in general, is 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:15.120 that keep your size in mind, keep achievable goals within sight, 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:19.800 because if you don't, you know, it's very easy to 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:25.320 burn out very quickly. Yeah. Um. With the specificity groups, 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:30.120 it's important that they understand the responsibility, but also that 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:37.280 they understand their limits. Lastly, and very importantly, social institution, 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:39.600 I think is one of the most important parts for 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.920 specifies more. And I think even if you don't take 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:48.080 anything away from like a specificity specifies more, you at 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:53.840 the very least like implement social institution or at least 0:16:53.880 --> 0:17:00.000 concepts within social institution into organizing right Because obviously, um, 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:04.040 and I guess a kind of fewer number. But what 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:07.400 social institution tries to point out, I guess, or tries 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:14.720 to develop within a movement. It's just awareness that the 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:19.320 people who are making these moves from organizing and whatnot, 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:26.719 that they don't relinquish their power to like other figures 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:33.560 or forces or parties or whatever the case may be. Right, Um, 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:36.920 social institutions that in the belief that the oppressed of 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:40.159 the most revolutionary sector of society and the seed of 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:45.320 future revolutionary transformation of society lies already in these classes 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:50.080 and social groupings. So it doesn't mean social institution doesn't 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:56.320 mean like acting within single issue advocacy campaigns or you know, 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:01.879 like trying to take over um people's existing struggles. It 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:05.879 means getting involved in daily fights and daily struggles people 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:09.160 to better their own conditions. It means, you know, connecting 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:14.280 with workers, connecting with immigrants, connecting across neighborhoods, working towards 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:19.040 racial liberation, working within students struggles and tenant struggles. As 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:24.760 people are like part of these struggles, they become conscious 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:29.640 of their place in society. Right, And part of our 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:32.600 rule is to try to develop their consciousness. So as 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:38.280 people are tempered and tested and recreated, they see their 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:44.320 position in the what we're looking for in the pecking order. Right, 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:48.840 They see that there are forces that play that are 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:51.040 keeping them down. Their structures play that are keeping them down, 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:55.159 and they change from just being like social classes to 0:18:55.280 --> 0:19:01.440 being active social forces. So they brought together by organic 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:07.119 methods and by self organized cohesion. What you notice of 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:10.919 the popular movements, like, for example, Black Lives Matter, is 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:15.720 that the unlike what some conservatives might assume, the Black 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:19.680 Lives Matter organization wasn't the one like pulling the strings, 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:23.560 you know, like the official group wasn't there, you know, 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:28.320 telling people okay, march here, burn that right here, move that. 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:33.680 You know. It's like the people themselves came together and 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:39.679 you know, really expressed the desire for change. And so really, 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:44.919 as they become self conscious actors away of their power, 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:48.679 of their voice, of their nemesis, which is the ruling 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:54.400 elites that control the social order, a specificitys try to 0:19:54.480 --> 0:20:00.800 keep that thrust right. What a specificity argue is that 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:06.359 essentially there's an anarchist on the current two popular social 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:11.840 movements that should be preserved and maintained and cultivated. Right 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:16.520 with popular movements, um, they're very quickly co opted by 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:21.120 in positions of leadership or by you know, academic elites, 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:26.960 or by political parties but specificity aren't there to try 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:31.200 to make groups identify as anarchists, right, They're there to 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:35.240 just maintain that thrust to be self organized and to 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:41.040 fight for their own interests, because ultimately that's our natural 0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:45.040 impulse as humans, you know, it's really the propaganda that 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:50.000 tells us, you know, um, like you have to go 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:54.399 through these proper channels. You know, you have to vote 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:57.680 with your dollar or you know, food for these politicians 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:00.600 or whatever the case may be, can verse and all 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:04.520 these different things call up your representatives. You're the natural 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:07.520 thrust of a boost and is not to like relinquished 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:10.120 control of themselves, you know, is to try to maintain 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:13.680 that um and so A specifics trying to push against 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:16.919 the propaganda that keeps us from maintaining that, push against 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:23.080 the cooptation that ships that from us. Sue, do any 0:21:23.119 --> 0:21:27.640 sort of automatic critiques of a specifies move come to mind? 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:31.920 You all. I'm not sure about like critiques per se. 0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:34.120 We need to think about it more. But a few 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:37.720 things that come to mind around so, like you talked 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:41.359 a bit about like the difference between like left unity 0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:46.800 and creating like an anarchist unity, um, and for people 0:21:46.840 --> 0:21:49.280 at home, I would like to maybe extrapolate why those 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:51.720 are different things. I know you have a good video 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:56.080 on left unity already, but like in terms of trying 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:58.120 to like you know, if one of the goals being 0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:01.920 creating like an anarchist organized station that kind of unifies 0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:04.560 different anarchists, how that is a different type of unity 0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:09.000 than just left unity in general. Um. I think that 0:22:09.080 --> 0:22:11.920 might be a point of clarification. And then the other 0:22:11.960 --> 0:22:14.119 thing I was wondering about is like how does this 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:17.840 intersect in terms of like individual goals versus like group 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:21.600 goals or like organizational goals and so like, because like 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:25.719 there's a there's a back and forth between like personal 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:28.560 autonomy and then you know these type of social movements 0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:37.040 that kind of almost gained their own thrust right right. 0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:41.439 Yes to the point about the difference between left unity 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:49.639 and anarchist unity, um well, obviously anarchists soon fairly has 0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:52.800 to rogin Us. Um. I think all a general thrust 0:22:52.960 --> 0:22:56.639 for sattudination and autonomy and that kind of thing it 0:22:56.760 --> 0:23:00.560 brings us together. You know the difference between like say 0:23:00.560 --> 0:23:05.280 anti constunity where they're differently some I would say key 0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:10.280 disagreements within the milieu and left unity is that I 0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:16.120 feel there are some extremely incompatible factors that prevent left 0:23:16.200 --> 0:23:22.520 unity from being viable. Yeah, when there's a thrust among 0:23:22.640 --> 0:23:30.199 significant segments, I mean really every non libertarian segment of 0:23:30.800 --> 0:23:35.920 you know, they couldn't get Left fun known our popular 0:23:36.040 --> 0:23:42.320 energy towards state institutions, whether it be through insurrectionary social 0:23:42.359 --> 0:23:47.200 democracy or reformist social democracy in a case of amounts 0:23:47.240 --> 0:23:53.040 and stock damage respectively. Um, I think that that really 0:23:53.160 --> 0:24:01.600 keeps us from really working together and anything more than 0:24:02.280 --> 0:24:07.200 small goals and small projects. I mean, we've really seen 0:24:08.520 --> 0:24:12.280 the whole left unity idea fall apart, you know, through 0:24:12.400 --> 0:24:17.880 wars and through even just like what should be discussions 0:24:17.920 --> 0:24:21.840 between people, you know, like the First International literally split 0:24:22.520 --> 0:24:25.920 because of the differences between you know, the so called 0:24:26.119 --> 0:24:29.880 left currents, you know, between the anarchists and the other socialists. 0:24:30.560 --> 0:24:35.000 So left unity is not something that I even to achieve. 0:24:35.040 --> 0:24:38.520 I think most people know that about me by now. Um. 0:24:38.600 --> 0:24:40.840 But in regard to like anarchist unity, and of course 0:24:40.880 --> 0:24:46.040 the differences between artists, I think the general thrust to 0:24:47.320 --> 0:24:50.280 maintain the autonomy and sil termination of the people and 0:24:50.320 --> 0:24:54.439 of the social movements via inserting ourselves in is what 0:24:55.240 --> 0:24:59.399 really cluse us together. And of course that alone, I 0:24:59.400 --> 0:25:02.639 don't know if that enough to maintaining a specificity organization 0:25:03.359 --> 0:25:08.639 because you know, like I noted, a specificitys try to 0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:15.600 um develop deeper level you know, strategies and theoretical discussion 0:25:15.640 --> 0:25:17.680 and that kind of thing, And so with those sort 0:25:17.680 --> 0:25:20.200 of discussions, you know, you're gonna see a lot more 0:25:20.840 --> 0:25:26.239 of the distinctions bearing out. But at the very least, um, 0:25:26.280 --> 0:25:32.919 I think anarchists generally could benefit from a degree of 0:25:33.240 --> 0:25:36.200 at least unity in the sense of maintaining or so 0:25:36.200 --> 0:25:41.080 aularity in the sense of maintaining the libertarian thrust of 0:25:41.119 --> 0:25:44.320 popular movements. I asked the other thing that you had 0:25:44.880 --> 0:25:48.159 noted about the sort of friction between individual goals and 0:25:48.280 --> 0:25:53.840 organizational goals, between autonomy and sort of how social movements 0:25:53.920 --> 0:26:00.000 end up taking on like an energy of their own. Um. 0:26:00.000 --> 0:26:02.320 To be quite honest, I don't think I have like 0:26:02.359 --> 0:26:08.800 a fully developed answer for that. Yeah, um, Because on 0:26:08.880 --> 0:26:14.439 the one hand, a social movement that forgets that it 0:26:14.560 --> 0:26:21.359 is about, you know, deliberation of individuals is you know, 0:26:21.520 --> 0:26:24.399 in my view of social movement that's quickly going to 0:26:25.920 --> 0:26:29.760 and obtaining against the people who are you know, fueling it. 0:26:30.680 --> 0:26:34.200 At the same time, I've interacted with like a lot 0:26:34.240 --> 0:26:41.120 of people, what pretty selfish or pretty egotistical or just 0:26:41.840 --> 0:26:46.879 argumentative for the sake of it. Sorry, So if you're 0:26:46.880 --> 0:26:48.600 gonna say something, yeah, I was just like the thing 0:26:48.640 --> 0:26:51.080 that keeps popping up into my head is, you know, 0:26:51.160 --> 0:26:55.080 one of the things that gets misconstrued all the time 0:26:55.160 --> 0:26:57.840 is who's calling the shots? And I kind of feel 0:26:57.880 --> 0:27:03.920 like what you're saying is everybody in a way, right, Yeah, yeah, 0:27:04.480 --> 0:27:08.880 I think that like, which is good sometimes but not 0:27:08.960 --> 0:27:14.080 good other times obviously exactly because I think it's it's 0:27:14.160 --> 0:27:19.040 very easy to fall into this sort of um almost 0:27:19.800 --> 0:27:25.000 reactionary I like island mentality not island mentality is in 0:27:25.040 --> 0:27:29.640 Caribean is mentality isn't. Person isn't as an island around 0:27:29.720 --> 0:27:33.359 like autonomy and you know personal freedom, you know, like 0:27:33.400 --> 0:27:37.320 this rendering idea that you know on step map property, 0:27:37.520 --> 0:27:40.919 you know that kind of thing just let people do whatever. 0:27:41.160 --> 0:27:45.520 It's kind of like most anarchost conception of what like 0:27:45.640 --> 0:27:48.320 freedom and autonomy is I think an important part of 0:27:48.320 --> 0:27:51.720 autonomy and you know freedom and yeah, like this project 0:27:52.880 --> 0:28:00.080 is you know accountability and is you know, like consequences 0:28:00.119 --> 0:28:05.679 like social consequences and how your actions affect others. You know, 0:28:06.240 --> 0:28:08.480 like what an I can say was recognized is that 0:28:10.400 --> 0:28:15.600 we are not in fact islands. You know, our actions 0:28:15.800 --> 0:28:19.080 or behavioral words affect other people. And so I think 0:28:19.080 --> 0:28:21.720 it's gonna be a constant project to sort of balance 0:28:22.680 --> 0:28:31.200 um individual personalities and broader goals. But I mean, yeah, 0:28:31.280 --> 0:28:35.040 it's it's tricky, right, Like you know, we're you're talking 0:28:35.080 --> 0:28:40.520 about like some kind of you know, group organization to 0:28:40.600 --> 0:28:44.280 work together to kind of you know, think of achievable 0:28:44.320 --> 0:28:49.120 goals and creates steps to get there UM. And I 0:28:49.160 --> 0:28:53.440 feel among a lot of people who proudly declare themselves 0:28:53.560 --> 0:28:56.560 anarchists and at least like and they're extremely vocal. Likely 0:28:56.600 --> 0:28:59.080 these are like people both like online and in person 0:28:59.200 --> 0:29:01.720 organizing that are very are very like vocal and try 0:29:01.760 --> 0:29:05.560 to very much like make their place known. We've seen 0:29:05.960 --> 0:29:10.160 trends away from this direction in terms of like rejecting 0:29:10.200 --> 0:29:14.520 the idea of goals and demands and just you know, 0:29:14.720 --> 0:29:17.840 like this this more insurrectionary kind of tendency of just 0:29:18.000 --> 0:29:22.560 making total destroy for the sake of it and committee, yeah, 0:29:22.560 --> 0:29:24.120 and and and and that. I mean, like I know 0:29:24.200 --> 0:29:26.920 that like platform is UM is kind of like it's 0:29:26.920 --> 0:29:30.760 not like antiens insurrectionary, but it's like it's it definitely 0:29:30.840 --> 0:29:35.760 critiques that type of instructionary trend um. So I'm thinking about, like, 0:29:35.800 --> 0:29:40.280 you know, this idea, and like, how with with with 0:29:40.360 --> 0:29:45.320 this kind of general, you know, decentralized, no no demands, 0:29:45.360 --> 0:29:49.120 no goals kind of general kind of direction that like 0:29:49.240 --> 0:29:53.520 capital a anarchists are are doing. How like what's what's 0:29:53.560 --> 0:29:58.000 maybe some parts of specific that we can actually take 0:29:58.000 --> 0:30:00.520 into account to be like, hey, maybe there's you know, 0:30:00.600 --> 0:30:04.480 like I don't like I don't like being called like 0:30:04.800 --> 0:30:08.680 any adjective anarchist. I think it's silly. I like I 0:30:09.480 --> 0:30:14.400 like the parts um I think early this year, Yeah, 0:30:14.520 --> 0:30:16.160 they last year, Like I just got to the point 0:30:16.200 --> 0:30:19.000 for you, I'm anarchist, you know that's yeah. Yeah, I 0:30:20.640 --> 0:30:22.880 like the parton desert. It's like, I'm an anarchist of 0:30:22.920 --> 0:30:27.000 many adjectives. I'm not. I'm not I'm not always an insurrectionary, 0:30:27.080 --> 0:30:29.600 I'm not always a syndicalist, I'm not always you know, 0:30:30.120 --> 0:30:32.600 blah blah blah blah blah blah blah um. And I 0:30:32.600 --> 0:30:35.280 feel like that's would be really useful kind of thing 0:30:35.280 --> 0:30:38.200 for people to focus on more in terms of yeah, 0:30:38.360 --> 0:30:40.360 it can be fun to make total destroying that it's 0:30:40.400 --> 0:30:43.320 a very base instinct, but it also would be great 0:30:43.360 --> 0:30:49.360 to like improve people's lives a little bit um and there. Yeah, 0:30:49.400 --> 0:30:52.080 and there's like to to to kind of like dueling things, 0:30:52.560 --> 0:30:55.080 um and in terms that's why I I do really 0:30:55.080 --> 0:30:56.760 like the part of like this type of stuff that 0:30:56.800 --> 0:30:59.160 it's really appealing to me just because I kind of 0:30:59.200 --> 0:31:00.920 already work on this myself. So I'm like, oh, I'm 0:31:01.120 --> 0:31:04.160 already doing this. But it's like the it is it 0:31:04.200 --> 0:31:07.120 is like the social the social insertion side of things, 0:31:07.520 --> 0:31:11.360 I think is something that would be a much a 0:31:11.440 --> 0:31:14.640 much better way of thinking about. Like everyone hates talking 0:31:14.640 --> 0:31:17.640 about optics because yeah, it's frustrating, but I think the 0:31:17.680 --> 0:31:20.880 social insertion method is a better framework for kind of 0:31:20.880 --> 0:31:25.080 dealing with some of those same problems. Um and yeah. 0:31:25.200 --> 0:31:28.480 And then like you know, we there is even among 0:31:28.720 --> 0:31:31.240 insurrectionaries and all those you know, all those types, there 0:31:31.280 --> 0:31:33.880 still is like a decent amount of like group projects 0:31:33.920 --> 0:31:35.840 and stuff, and that is I think a really good 0:31:35.840 --> 0:31:39.040 thing to focus on because but yeah, there's not many 0:31:39.040 --> 0:31:40.840 anarchists and it would be cool if there was more, 0:31:41.040 --> 0:31:43.160 and if we just focus on the parts that make 0:31:43.160 --> 0:31:46.000 people go, oh, that's kind of silly and pointless. Then 0:31:46.000 --> 0:31:49.160 we're not really going to grow anarchism that much. Um, 0:31:49.200 --> 0:31:51.480 So highlighting the parts that are like, oh, yeah, you're 0:31:51.480 --> 0:31:54.640 actually helping people, that's gonna convince a lot more people 0:31:54.680 --> 0:31:58.680 who are kind of already trending in that general general direction, 0:31:58.680 --> 0:32:00.520 and then hey, maybe in a few years they can 0:32:00.600 --> 0:32:03.959 also be doing silly destruction for fun because it is 0:32:04.080 --> 0:32:09.880 it is fun sometimes, right, Yeah, like this, as you 0:32:09.920 --> 0:32:13.240 mentioned optics and reminded it is kind of pet peeve 0:32:13.320 --> 0:32:16.640 I have with some you know, instant people where they 0:32:16.640 --> 0:32:23.360 try to treat like ideologies so specifically anarchism as like 0:32:23.600 --> 0:32:27.240 a pr project that we have to like constantly be 0:32:27.320 --> 0:32:31.640 trying to shift the optics and micromanaged like every aspect. 0:32:31.680 --> 0:32:35.719 Like no, I think the best remedy for like, because 0:32:35.960 --> 0:32:38.640 you're not going to match the power of mass media, 0:32:39.360 --> 0:32:42.280 what you can do to push back against the sort 0:32:42.280 --> 0:32:46.160 of propaganda is help people and help people, and identify 0:32:46.200 --> 0:32:49.760 as anarchists as you're helping people, right, Like, that's the 0:32:49.800 --> 0:32:53.800 easiest and quickest way to dispel people's notions and like 0:32:53.880 --> 0:32:57.000 conceptions of what an anarchist is. If we were to 0:32:57.960 --> 0:33:02.280 take like socialization, right and sort of I would say 0:33:02.280 --> 0:33:06.560 there's still it's a bit and individualize it a bit. Um. 0:33:06.600 --> 0:33:09.760 I would say that as a practice, you know, just 0:33:10.120 --> 0:33:12.960 even if you don't know any any other anarchists in 0:33:12.960 --> 0:33:17.400 your area, right, just being there, being in these movements, 0:33:17.480 --> 0:33:20.920 helping people and you know, saying you know, this is 0:33:20.960 --> 0:33:25.360 what I believe. Um, just talking to people about what 0:33:25.440 --> 0:33:28.000 you believe as a place and as you're helping them. 0:33:28.040 --> 0:33:31.080 You know, that goes a long way, much longer than 0:33:31.120 --> 0:33:37.920 any you know, poster um campaign or like wheat pasting 0:33:38.040 --> 0:33:42.360 initiative or artwork, um, you know wall art or whatever, 0:33:42.440 --> 0:33:45.680 you know, like actively helping people. Of course wall Lot 0:33:45.720 --> 0:33:50.240 has this place and double little bit myself. But you 0:33:50.280 --> 0:33:57.840 know it's um, it's not. It's ultimately like talking to 0:33:57.840 --> 0:34:01.040 people and helping people and being there people and being 0:34:01.080 --> 0:34:04.880 honest about your intentions that I think, you know, we 0:34:04.880 --> 0:34:08.640 should working towards. And I think those types of projects 0:34:08.680 --> 0:34:13.040 are something that the specific model like excels that in 0:34:13.160 --> 0:34:15.600 terms of like creating like a unity of anarchists who 0:34:15.680 --> 0:34:18.080 get like who have like a goal in mind and 0:34:18.080 --> 0:34:21.040 then go out to achieve the goal, helping people like 0:34:21.080 --> 0:34:25.200 doing like doing like like like direct directly helping people 0:34:25.440 --> 0:34:28.160 is something that that type of organization model is kind 0:34:28.200 --> 0:34:32.600 of the best at UM because you can, yeah, really 0:34:32.640 --> 0:34:35.799 like organize things much better with a small group like 0:34:35.880 --> 0:34:38.399 that and create goals that are actually very achievable, whether 0:34:38.440 --> 0:34:41.240 it be you know, building a community kitchen or building 0:34:41.280 --> 0:34:46.200 you know, heating centers for like for the winter, like 0:34:46.320 --> 0:34:49.200 under under bridges or whatever. You know, all those types 0:34:49.239 --> 0:34:51.680 of starting comming to the gardens, all those kinds of 0:34:51.719 --> 0:34:55.080 things are I think what this type of model really 0:34:55.080 --> 0:34:57.359 excels that. And yeah, you don't need to change your 0:34:57.400 --> 0:35:00.759 ideology to this one word because that's that's but you 0:35:00.760 --> 0:35:02.879 can pick up different parts of it be like, yeah, 0:35:02.960 --> 0:35:05.520 that actually seems like a useful way of world. You 0:35:05.560 --> 0:35:08.320 don't want, you know, a politicians just ruling hen co 0:35:08.400 --> 0:35:10.960 opt our project, you know, like just basic things like that, 0:35:11.680 --> 0:35:13.880 you know. And then from there, you know, as you 0:35:13.920 --> 0:35:16.560 are talking with people and meeting people who are passionate 0:35:16.560 --> 0:35:20.680 about issues in these social movements, you know, not only 0:35:20.719 --> 0:35:25.600 does it keep you from developing this sort of UM 0:35:25.719 --> 0:35:31.960 partumularly online um in group kind of mentality, it also 0:35:32.360 --> 0:35:36.680 opens up opportunities you to develop your and this is 0:35:36.680 --> 0:35:40.799 on the topic of like the individualist social institution, it 0:35:41.040 --> 0:35:43.560 prints or presents opportunities for you to develop your own 0:35:44.239 --> 0:35:46.799 I had no like book club, and then from that 0:35:46.840 --> 0:35:50.920 book club could come and a specificity organization. You know, 0:35:51.040 --> 0:35:55.759 as you begin to develop your politics and your shared politics, 0:35:57.040 --> 0:35:59.840 more can come out of it. So don't underestimate, you know, 0:36:00.320 --> 0:36:03.680 the potential of just putting in the work and talking 0:36:03.719 --> 0:36:07.800 to people. Yeah, you know, just being there on the ground. 0:36:09.239 --> 0:36:11.240 One of the best things you can do to help 0:36:11.560 --> 0:36:14.279 stay alive in the well things are heading in the 0:36:14.320 --> 0:36:18.200 direction that they're heading societally, is like making friends and 0:36:18.360 --> 0:36:21.239 forming a friend group and then yeah, like actually doing 0:36:21.239 --> 0:36:24.680 stuff together. That makes dealing with everything else that's happening 0:36:25.160 --> 0:36:29.680 so so much better. And hey, remember our old friend 0:36:30.160 --> 0:36:34.160 Nest Nest remark started with a book club, so hey, 0:36:34.239 --> 0:36:37.839 you know, you never know where book clubs can lead. 0:36:38.200 --> 0:36:42.880 You never exactly. It's actually really interesting, UM video clip 0:36:43.280 --> 0:36:46.799 of Marie booked Gin talking about book clubs and like 0:36:46.960 --> 0:36:50.400 the power and potential book clubs. Um. I don't know 0:36:50.440 --> 0:36:52.120 if we could probably link that in the show notes, 0:36:52.160 --> 0:36:57.279 but it's like a really interesting make drink. So ultimately, 0:36:57.640 --> 0:37:01.319 a specificity believe that social movements we reached their own 0:37:01.360 --> 0:37:06.000 logic of creating revolution. Not when they all just decide 0:37:06.000 --> 0:37:09.920 to identify as anarchists and wave the black flag, but 0:37:10.080 --> 0:37:16.239 when the majority reach a consensus and a consciousness of 0:37:16.280 --> 0:37:19.200 their power and their ability to exercise their power in 0:37:19.239 --> 0:37:25.560 their daily lives. So even if they do not adopt anarchism, 0:37:25.600 --> 0:37:31.680 they still consciously adopt the ideas embedded within it. Their 0:37:31.760 --> 0:37:36.040 multiple political currents will exist within any movement, and so 0:37:36.719 --> 0:37:40.799 it's important that we as anarchists and I guess specifically 0:37:40.880 --> 0:37:45.920 as a specificity, are there to actively combat the opportunism 0:37:45.960 --> 0:37:49.959 that come from you know, these forces from this whether 0:37:50.000 --> 0:37:55.879 electoral or fin goddess within these social movements as well, 0:37:56.760 --> 0:38:01.720 we can also help to push them further through um, 0:38:01.760 --> 0:38:07.600 you know, pushing for more direct democracy and consensus, through federalism, 0:38:07.800 --> 0:38:12.840 and confederating with other social movements, through you know, building 0:38:12.920 --> 0:38:15.839 up the mutual aid within these movements. Like if you are, 0:38:15.880 --> 0:38:20.839 for example, part of a mutual aid group in one neighborhood, 0:38:22.160 --> 0:38:24.760 you can push them to start reaching out with mutually 0:38:24.840 --> 0:38:27.520 groups and other neighborhoods and creating a network of mutual 0:38:27.560 --> 0:38:31.759 aid groups that can build into something bigger. You know, 0:38:32.280 --> 0:38:40.840 combining resources and manpower to really push the revolution, you know. Lastly, 0:38:40.920 --> 0:38:43.560 we'll say that for those who are trying to like 0:38:44.200 --> 0:38:47.680 get into the whole specifies more thing. Um. I mean, 0:38:47.760 --> 0:38:52.160 you could start a new organization from scratch, but again, 0:38:52.560 --> 0:38:56.560 like the easiest thing to do is suggest getting there 0:38:56.600 --> 0:39:01.160 to people and be honest with the people. I keep 0:39:01.200 --> 0:39:03.600 saying the people, even though I have my critiques of 0:39:04.200 --> 0:39:09.400 this umorphous conception of the people, but the point remains 0:39:09.400 --> 0:39:15.040 that our goal is to spread our ideas, not to 0:39:15.600 --> 0:39:19.920 get people on any particular ideology, but to get a 0:39:20.000 --> 0:39:27.120 liberatory consciousness on the ground and to generalize that consciousness. 0:39:27.440 --> 0:39:30.200 And for those who are curious about the specifies more 0:39:30.320 --> 0:39:35.880 in action and social institutions, specifically the Federal Show. Anarchista 0:39:35.920 --> 0:39:40.240 GAUSHA in Brazil has worked with neighborhood committees and urban 0:39:40.320 --> 0:39:43.880 villages and slums. They've built alliances with the rank and 0:39:43.920 --> 0:39:46.640 file members of the rural land as workers movement the 0:39:46.760 --> 0:39:53.200 must and they've also worked with trash and recyclables collectors. UM. Brazil, 0:39:53.320 --> 0:39:55.920 for those who don't know, has a lot of high 0:39:56.040 --> 0:40:01.640 levels of temporary uh and contingent employment, underemployment and unemployment, 0:40:02.080 --> 0:40:05.880 so the working class isn't how will you traditionally conceive 0:40:05.920 --> 0:40:09.319 it as like just surviving primarily off of wage labor, 0:40:09.719 --> 0:40:13.279 but it's more so this is sort of subsistence week 0:40:13.960 --> 0:40:18.040 informal economy, gig economy can deal so being able to 0:40:18.080 --> 0:40:22.240 connect with these but when charged with collectors, for example, 0:40:22.640 --> 0:40:25.200 who are part of this sort of economy, the ef 0:40:25.200 --> 0:40:27.200 EG has built a strong relationship with them and help 0:40:27.200 --> 0:40:30.839 them to form their own national organization to you know, 0:40:30.880 --> 0:40:36.600 push for their interests and to collectivize their recycling operations. 0:40:38.360 --> 0:40:43.000 Specifies More is also um worked with the has also 0:40:43.040 --> 0:40:46.399 worked in the efforts of the Zabalaza anarchist Communist Front 0:40:46.440 --> 0:40:50.000 in South Africa, as they also are strong opponents of 0:40:50.840 --> 0:40:54.399 social institution and you know, really being embedded in these 0:40:54.400 --> 0:41:01.719 social movements in Argentina, in Brazil, in South Africa, and 0:41:01.880 --> 0:41:03.800 in the US in the case of Black Rois Anarchist 0:41:03.840 --> 0:41:08.239 Federation A specifies More has been building as a key 0:41:08.560 --> 0:41:12.680 point reference and so I'll leave us off with a 0:41:12.760 --> 0:41:17.840 code from the use of Front Collective, an anarchist group online. 0:41:19.520 --> 0:41:23.680 If libertarian socialists merely organized with libertarian socialists, then they 0:41:23.680 --> 0:41:26.160 will lose contact with the broader population. They need to 0:41:26.160 --> 0:41:30.239 be reaching. If libertarian socialists merely joined social movements without 0:41:30.280 --> 0:41:34.480 advocating various libertarian socialist practices that can be used, then 0:41:34.480 --> 0:41:37.719 social movements can easily drift into being susceptible to reformist, 0:41:38.239 --> 0:41:43.960 un strategic, liberal and leninist tendencies and opportunists. If libertarian 0:41:44.000 --> 0:41:47.320 socialists merely joined social movements and try to spread ideas 0:41:47.400 --> 0:41:51.560 and practices in mare individual ways, they'll be far less 0:41:51.560 --> 0:41:55.600 successful than a well thought out, coordinated effort. And if 0:41:55.600 --> 0:41:59.640 theoretically specific libertarian socialist groups try to control social movements 0:41:59.680 --> 0:42:03.080 and poular organizations from the top down, then such specific 0:42:03.080 --> 0:42:07.400 groups sacrifice their own principles and would reproduce hierarchical organizing 0:42:08.239 --> 0:42:11.960 in contrast to authoritarian finding God his conceptions specifies more 0:42:11.960 --> 0:42:15.000 groups and a specificity put the activity towards a self 0:42:15.080 --> 0:42:22.120 organization of movements and organizations. Ultimately, as I honestly love 0:42:22.160 --> 0:42:26.080 this code from Shanti Alston, power to the people, where 0:42:26.120 --> 0:42:31.480 it stays with the people. Peace. Yes, Andrew, please please 0:42:31.480 --> 0:42:34.080 plug your plugables because they are good and people should 0:42:34.120 --> 0:42:39.760 in fact listen to them, right. Thank you. Safety First, 0:42:39.800 --> 0:42:42.279 of course, I will say that you could follow me 0:42:42.440 --> 0:42:47.439 on Twitter at underscore st Drew and on YouTube at 0:42:47.480 --> 0:42:52.160 st andrews um and you can find me here apparently 0:42:52.440 --> 0:42:56.080 twice a month, which is pretty great. Shout out to 0:42:56.800 --> 0:43:04.280 it could happen here. Take care everyone again, He's again 0:43:11.840 --> 0:43:14.400 Hello and welcome to our show. I'm Zoe de Chanelle 0:43:14.400 --> 0:43:16.600 and I'm so excited to be joined by my friends 0:43:16.600 --> 0:43:19.360 and cast mates Hannah Simone and Lamar and Morris to 0:43:19.480 --> 0:43:23.080 recap our hit television series New Girl. Join us every 0:43:23.120 --> 0:43:25.719 Monday on the Welcome to Our Show podcast, where we'll 0:43:25.719 --> 0:43:28.799 share behind the scenes stories of your favorite New Girl episodes, 0:43:28.960 --> 0:43:31.919 revealed the truth behind the legendary game True American, and 0:43:32.360 --> 0:43:35.160 discuss how this show got made with the writer's, guest 0:43:35.160 --> 0:43:38.080 stars and directors who made the show so special. Fans 0:43:38.080 --> 0:43:40.240 have been begging us to do a New Girl recap 0:43:40.280 --> 0:43:43.000 for years, and we finally made a podcast where we 0:43:43.040 --> 0:43:46.680 answer all your burning questions like is there really a 0:43:46.800 --> 0:43:50.120 bear in every episode of New Girl? Plus each week 0:43:50.160 --> 0:43:53.640 you'll hear hilarious stories like this at the end when 0:43:53.680 --> 0:43:56.000 he says you got some schmid on your face. I 0:43:56.000 --> 0:43:58.680 feel like I pitched that joke. I believe that I 0:43:58.680 --> 0:44:00.560 feel like I did. I'm not on thous and I 0:44:00.560 --> 0:44:02.719 want to say that was I tossed that one out. 0:44:03.000 --> 0:44:05.120 Listen to the Welcome to Our Show podcast on the 0:44:05.160 --> 0:44:08.560 I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get 0:44:08.560 --> 0:44:12.799 your podcasts. Adoption of teens from foster care is a 0:44:12.840 --> 0:44:15.160 topic not enough people know about, and we're here to 0:44:15.239 --> 0:44:18.160 change that. I'm April Dinuity, host of the new podcast 0:44:18.320 --> 0:44:22.320 Navigating Adoption, presented by adopt us Kids. Each episode brings 0:44:22.360 --> 0:44:25.760 you compelling, real life adoption stories told by the families 0:44:25.760 --> 0:44:29.160 that lived them, with commentary from experts. Visit adopt us 0:44:29.280 --> 0:44:32.800 Kids dot org, slash podcast, or subscribe to Navigating Adoption, 0:44:32.880 --> 0:44:35.520 presented by adopt Us Kids, brought to you by the 0:44:35.600 --> 0:44:37.960 U S Department of Health, the Human Services Administration for 0:44:38.080 --> 0:44:41.760 Children and Families, and the ACT Council. Hi. I'm Robert 0:44:41.800 --> 0:44:45.000 sex Reese, host of The Doctor sex Rees Show. And 0:44:45.080 --> 0:44:48.240 every episode I listened to people talk about their sex 0:44:48.239 --> 0:44:52.080 and intimacy issues, and yes, a despise every minute of it. 0:44:52.520 --> 0:44:56.680 And she she made mistakes, took everyone at her wedding. 0:44:57.080 --> 0:44:59.839 But hell is real. We're all trapped here and there's 0:44:59.840 --> 0:45:02.080 no thing any of us can do about it. So 0:45:02.200 --> 0:45:04.960 join me, won't you? Listen to the Doctors Sex re 0:45:05.120 --> 0:45:07.960 Show every Tuesday on the I Heart Radio app, Apple 0:45:08.000 --> 0:45:19.440 podcast or wherever you get your podcast. What's new My 0:45:19.520 --> 0:45:27.800 Year ship? Yeah, new year, same ship. I'm Robert Evans. 0:45:27.880 --> 0:45:35.600 This is behind the we retired, We retired this bit? 0:45:35.760 --> 0:45:38.800 Who where is this time for a new bit? This 0:45:38.920 --> 0:45:43.919 is it could happen here the podcast about how things 0:45:44.080 --> 0:45:47.640 sometimes feel like they're falling apart sometimes and maybe we 0:45:47.680 --> 0:45:50.000 can do things about that. You know what's falling apart 0:45:50.080 --> 0:45:52.880 is me because I during my break woke up at 0:45:52.920 --> 0:45:56.040 like one thirty every day and now it's someone speakable 0:45:56.040 --> 0:46:00.759 hour in the morning. I hate this the time you 0:46:00.880 --> 0:46:05.520 pret the time for for For one of our first 0:46:05.520 --> 0:46:09.120 episodes of the New Year, we have decided to subject 0:46:09.120 --> 0:46:13.120 ourselves to your para social whims um, and we are 0:46:13.160 --> 0:46:16.080 going to be doing maybe one, maybe two Q and 0:46:16.120 --> 0:46:21.319 A episodes um uh, giving AI's to your cues. And 0:46:21.480 --> 0:46:27.760 I've been it's okay. I've been told that our producer 0:46:27.840 --> 0:46:30.960 Sophie has a list of questions already prepared so that 0:46:31.000 --> 0:46:33.040 I can stop talking and she can. Now you've been 0:46:33.080 --> 0:46:36.799 told you're the one who posted the thread. Sophie said 0:46:36.800 --> 0:46:40.800 that she would read them. I did volunteers tribute, but 0:46:40.920 --> 0:46:44.200 I might, I might, I might take that back it 0:46:44.440 --> 0:46:49.279 so how much at some point? Yeah, uh, let's let's 0:46:49.400 --> 0:46:53.600 let's start with let's start with a A simply a 0:46:53.680 --> 0:46:58.000 good one. Uh. What has been your favorite episode slash 0:46:58.120 --> 0:47:01.799 topic to research in this past season so since we 0:47:01.840 --> 0:47:07.759 started season two? Oh god, Um, I enjoyed the metaverse 0:47:07.800 --> 0:47:10.359 Facebook episodes because there's a part of me that really 0:47:10.400 --> 0:47:16.320 likes shipping on bad tech industry stuff. Um. It fills 0:47:16.360 --> 0:47:21.120 a deep part of me just just really comprehensively thinking 0:47:21.120 --> 0:47:24.560 about how how terrible the vision of the future these 0:47:24.560 --> 0:47:28.280 people have it. So that was probably my favorite. I 0:47:28.400 --> 0:47:33.360 liked the Climate Leviathan stuff. Um, the Climate Leviathan, Climate Behemoth, 0:47:34.120 --> 0:47:38.600 Climate Now, Climate X kind of four quadrants. I I 0:47:38.640 --> 0:47:41.880 liked learning about that, like, oh jeez, almost a year 0:47:41.920 --> 0:47:45.759 ago actually by the time I started researching for the show. Um, 0:47:45.800 --> 0:47:48.200 and I'm decently happy with the way that those topics 0:47:48.200 --> 0:47:51.040 were presented and how they keep popping back every once 0:47:51.040 --> 0:47:54.759 in a while. I think in terms of just the 0:47:54.800 --> 0:47:58.200 favorite episode of recorded, it was probably the interview with 0:47:58.360 --> 0:48:01.880 the Common Humanity Collective people, just because like listening to 0:48:01.920 --> 0:48:04.880 a bunch of people who have very sophisticated and well 0:48:04.920 --> 0:48:07.880 developed mutual Aid project and then listening to you know 0:48:07.920 --> 0:48:10.279 them talking about their political development and how they've been 0:48:10.280 --> 0:48:14.920 sort of solving their problems was really reassuring and cheerful 0:48:14.920 --> 0:48:17.719 in a lot of ways. And then research wise, it 0:48:17.840 --> 0:48:20.960 was definitely the Spooky Area fifty one episode where I 0:48:21.000 --> 0:48:23.799 was like, oh, I'm gonna do a fun episode about uh, 0:48:24.760 --> 0:48:26.799 the government and aliens and it was like, oh no, 0:48:26.880 --> 0:48:30.480 here's every war crime ever and like sixteen people almost 0:48:30.520 --> 0:48:34.080 killing everyone on Earth. I was like, this is this is. 0:48:35.800 --> 0:48:39.320 Probably Probably the most fun I had was with the 0:48:39.400 --> 0:48:48.040 Chaos Magic and Esoteric Pacism episode How Silly It Is? Um? Yeah, 0:48:48.239 --> 0:48:50.760 that one. That one also was just just a pleasure 0:48:50.800 --> 0:48:54.319 to record. I also loved having Corey doctor owen um 0:48:55.239 --> 0:48:58.319 because that was cool. That was cool. That was that 0:48:58.440 --> 0:49:01.359 was very cool, How cool of us. I've enjoyed our 0:49:01.480 --> 0:49:05.480 our fiction episodes with Margaret and with Rebecca those those 0:49:05.480 --> 0:49:09.040 have been great, and I've loved having sat Andrew h Yeah, 0:49:09.080 --> 0:49:11.640 that has been also very cool, fantastic. What were you 0:49:11.640 --> 0:49:16.120 gonna say, Robert nothing? Oh great, this person says, I 0:49:16.160 --> 0:49:19.719 think I've got my head wrapped around mutual aid, community resilience, 0:49:19.800 --> 0:49:21.960 and all the stuff you talk about. Any tips on 0:49:22.000 --> 0:49:24.799 how to effectively communicate it to people who might not 0:49:24.840 --> 0:49:32.719 be at least initially open to it h um. I 0:49:32.760 --> 0:49:35.200 mean it kind of depends on why they're not open 0:49:35.280 --> 0:49:37.560 to it, right. So it's it's a matter of are 0:49:37.600 --> 0:49:41.520 they just somebody who has a lot of faith in 0:49:41.520 --> 0:49:43.759 in systems as they exist, or they someone who's kind 0:49:43.760 --> 0:49:45.920 of coming at it from more of a traditional like 0:49:46.040 --> 0:49:50.480 liberal um status perspective where they think the option is 0:49:50.520 --> 0:49:53.320 to get in line with you know, the Democratic Party 0:49:53.320 --> 0:49:56.120 and support that and that will make things better. Um. 0:49:56.160 --> 0:49:58.480 Like basically, are they a top down er um? Or 0:49:58.680 --> 0:50:02.640 there somebody who rejects it's like communism um, and they 0:50:02.680 --> 0:50:05.080 don't they don't think that people have any kind of 0:50:05.080 --> 0:50:08.759 fundamental responsibility to themselves. Um. Because you are going to 0:50:08.880 --> 0:50:11.880 have kind of a different approach to trying to reach 0:50:11.920 --> 0:50:14.640 either of those people. Um. If they're coming at it 0:50:14.680 --> 0:50:18.600 from kind of more of a right wing standpoint, but 0:50:18.640 --> 0:50:24.600 they're not, you know, uh talking about shooting vaccine doctors. Um, 0:50:24.640 --> 0:50:27.480 they're just kind of conservative. I think the way to 0:50:27.560 --> 0:50:29.960 do it is to sort of hearken back to some 0:50:30.040 --> 0:50:35.120 of these very traditional ideas of like um, American homesteaders 0:50:35.200 --> 0:50:38.680 and and independent you know, communities on the frontier and 0:50:38.880 --> 0:50:43.560 self reliance, and how mutual aid is people taking responsibility 0:50:44.160 --> 0:50:47.920 UM for their communities rather than you know, this idea 0:50:47.960 --> 0:50:50.240 I think a lot of conservatives have of like people 0:50:50.760 --> 0:50:53.439 UM just kind of lazily taking charity. How it's it's 0:50:53.719 --> 0:50:57.560 different from charity, and that it's a community UM seeing 0:50:57.680 --> 0:51:00.480 its own needs and becoming independent as much as is 0:51:00.520 --> 0:51:05.320 possible on the state from the state, UM by trying 0:51:05.320 --> 0:51:08.120 to meet its own needs, and how that UM is 0:51:08.160 --> 0:51:12.799 better for people than just sort of UM begging, like 0:51:12.920 --> 0:51:15.880 being dependent upon government programs. I think that's kind of 0:51:15.920 --> 0:51:18.200 the way in which to reach out to those people 0:51:18.239 --> 0:51:20.560 with that idea if they're coming at it from more 0:51:20.560 --> 0:51:24.319 of a liberal top down approach, UM, I think you 0:51:24.400 --> 0:51:28.080 can get more into the weeds and may argue about 0:51:28.160 --> 0:51:31.200 kind of inefficiencies within the system, problems within the system. 0:51:31.239 --> 0:51:32.960 I think one thing to really point out that will 0:51:33.080 --> 0:51:35.880 probably still be fresh to a lot of people of 0:51:35.880 --> 0:51:39.840 that persuasion is how frightening the first couple of weeks 0:51:40.080 --> 0:51:43.040 of quarantine were and all of the supply line issues 0:51:43.080 --> 0:51:46.040 and kind of the early breakdown to be like, look, um, 0:51:46.080 --> 0:51:48.439 that didn't go away, like right, you can see that 0:51:48.440 --> 0:51:50.319 that we're still dealing with a lot of this and 0:51:50.360 --> 0:51:54.120 we're still having supply line disruptions and the state really 0:51:54.160 --> 0:51:56.960 has not kind of even under Biden sailed and to 0:51:57.080 --> 0:52:00.000 clear the gap. And so we need these community resilient 0:52:00.080 --> 0:52:03.680 and see programs, UM. And you can you know, depending 0:52:03.760 --> 0:52:06.319 on the kind of person there, you can also sort 0:52:06.320 --> 0:52:10.440 of point out, um, the degree to which there is 0:52:10.640 --> 0:52:13.000 our attempts at kind of sabotage of any sort of 0:52:13.000 --> 0:52:16.120 of of of top down government programs by the right 0:52:16.200 --> 0:52:19.279 and how um that's part of why you need community 0:52:19.320 --> 0:52:22.200 resiliency programs because you can't guarantee who's going to be 0:52:22.200 --> 0:52:23.960 in the White House, you can't guarantee what's going to 0:52:24.000 --> 0:52:27.120 continue to get funded. Um. And outside of kind of 0:52:27.120 --> 0:52:30.520 any of the the structural issues um that make that 0:52:30.560 --> 0:52:34.920 stuff difficult. So I think, UM, that's kind of broadly speaking, 0:52:34.960 --> 0:52:38.879 the two different ways you you can broach those conversations 0:52:38.880 --> 0:52:41.879 with people, depending on the tendencies they're they're looking at 0:52:41.880 --> 0:52:46.719 it from uh, let's let's let's get into an unpleasant one. 0:52:47.400 --> 0:52:50.120 What's the gang's outlook on this? Year's election, and how 0:52:50.120 --> 0:52:53.160 do you think it might position us for do we 0:52:53.840 --> 0:52:57.920 see more violence letting up to the next presidential election? Well, 0:52:58.080 --> 0:53:02.880 I know we'll be doing a prediction ze Ish episode later. Um. 0:53:02.920 --> 0:53:05.959 But as for this election, I have I've not looked 0:53:06.000 --> 0:53:08.840 at anything about it. I think the Steelers are going 0:53:08.880 --> 0:53:13.320 to take all what what what's border? Are the Steelers? 0:53:14.200 --> 0:53:21.880 Um one of them? That's great? I mean yeah, I 0:53:21.880 --> 0:53:28.319 mean I feel like if Democrats want to keep the 0:53:28.520 --> 0:53:31.319 power that they currently have, they will probably need to 0:53:31.360 --> 0:53:35.000 do some type of symbolic action that makes people think 0:53:35.000 --> 0:53:38.520 they actually do things. They've managed to have control of 0:53:39.480 --> 0:53:44.840 every and done absolutely nothing that they So I'm guessing 0:53:44.840 --> 0:53:46.560 if they want to keep that, they should probably do 0:53:46.640 --> 0:53:50.360 something really soon um or else I don't see people 0:53:50.400 --> 0:53:55.319 being super eager to vote in two for the Democrats. Yeah, yeah, 0:53:55.360 --> 0:53:57.360 I mean one of the issues they've got is this 0:53:57.360 --> 0:53:59.840 this thing that you know, kind of the Technocrats always 0:53:59.840 --> 0:54:02.040 had of where you know, as we as Corey pointed 0:54:02.040 --> 0:54:03.360 out when we had him on, there have been some 0:54:03.400 --> 0:54:06.080 really positive moves by the Biden administration in terms of 0:54:06.120 --> 0:54:11.160 like appointments and how different kind of agencies are being handled. Um. 0:54:11.200 --> 0:54:12.880 But when it comes to the things that he actually 0:54:12.920 --> 0:54:16.560 campaigned on, Like it just hasn't it hasn't happened, should 0:54:16.560 --> 0:54:20.200 it ain't been done? Um, Like the closest we've gotten 0:54:20.239 --> 0:54:22.960 recently is yet another kick the can down the street 0:54:23.000 --> 0:54:26.160 a little bit for student loan repayments, And I agree, 0:54:26.160 --> 0:54:28.680 I think they need to do. There's like two big 0:54:28.760 --> 0:54:32.360 things they could do that might have a significant shifting effect. 0:54:32.400 --> 0:54:35.719 One of them would be student debt forgiveness, and one 0:54:35.719 --> 0:54:40.600 of them would be fucking de schedule marijuana. Even without Congress, 0:54:40.880 --> 0:54:45.120 Biden could could not factively make marijuana not and like 0:54:45.440 --> 0:54:49.080 that would be number one politically, the easiest fucking win 0:54:49.120 --> 0:54:51.160 in the world because the vast majority of Republicans don't 0:54:51.200 --> 0:54:53.879 give a shit about that anymore. Um, it will piss 0:54:53.880 --> 0:54:55.640 off cops, which is probably why you won't do it. 0:54:55.719 --> 0:54:59.719 But like those two things could have an impact on 0:55:00.000 --> 0:55:02.160 in terms, that's certainly a thing that would like you 0:55:02.200 --> 0:55:04.560 can campaign on more, but I don't. I don't know 0:55:04.600 --> 0:55:06.680 that I think he'll do that. And of obviously I 0:55:06.719 --> 0:55:09.520 guess another big old payment to stay home, but I 0:55:09.520 --> 0:55:13.200 think that shipped unsailed, Like honestly, like, I don't think 0:55:13.200 --> 0:55:17.399 they want to win, Like they so they can sit 0:55:17.440 --> 0:55:20.400 there and then and go, oh yeah, we can't do 0:55:20.440 --> 0:55:22.600 anything because Republicans control the House, and you guys need 0:55:22.640 --> 0:55:26.279 to like, you guys need to like save us. This 0:55:26.320 --> 0:55:28.080 is the most important election of our lifetime. It's like, 0:55:28.520 --> 0:55:30.960 and they will keep doing this over and over and 0:55:31.000 --> 0:55:33.960 over again until literally to seize boil and everyone, you know, 0:55:34.000 --> 0:55:36.360 everyone's being heard into concentration camps. Like they will just 0:55:36.440 --> 0:55:39.080 keep doing this and and like I think that's that's 0:55:39.080 --> 0:55:41.360 the thing that's actually important about two cycle is that 0:55:41.440 --> 0:55:46.200 like the Democrats have you know, you know what what 0:55:46.239 --> 0:55:48.120 the rejection of Brine Sanders sort of is is the 0:55:48.120 --> 0:55:51.040 Democrats essentially going, we are not a popular party, right, 0:55:51.080 --> 0:55:52.680 like we we are not a party that is going 0:55:52.719 --> 0:55:55.239 to like like we will not even give the pretense 0:55:55.680 --> 0:55:57.719 of like having a base that we represent and we 0:55:57.760 --> 0:55:59.880 do things for like we're just we're just in it 0:55:59.880 --> 0:56:02.000 for ourselves. We're in it to just like you know, 0:56:02.120 --> 0:56:04.720 give all of our weird like black Rock friends positions 0:56:04.719 --> 0:56:07.520 in the government, and we don't you know, and it's 0:56:07.600 --> 0:56:10.080 you know, it's it's we we don't have a policy agenda, 0:56:10.160 --> 0:56:11.759 and we don't care if we lose, because if we 0:56:11.800 --> 0:56:13.880 lose all you people just have to go put us 0:56:13.880 --> 0:56:17.160 back into office because the alternative is just more death camps. Yeah, 0:56:17.200 --> 0:56:20.400 I mean, I think there's a broad belief like within 0:56:20.600 --> 0:56:23.440 kind of the Democratic Party that things are still business 0:56:23.480 --> 0:56:25.520 as usual and that the Republican Party is still a 0:56:25.560 --> 0:56:28.560 political party, and so kind of the handing off and 0:56:28.600 --> 0:56:33.200 switching of power is fine. That's seen as business as usual, 0:56:33.320 --> 0:56:37.280 rather than the Democrats or the Republicans are continually ratcheting 0:56:37.360 --> 0:56:39.920 away from there being any chance of a switch of power, 0:56:40.239 --> 0:56:42.719 um at least through legal means. Like that's the whole 0:56:42.719 --> 0:56:45.560 thing they're doing. And the failures to pass any kind 0:56:45.600 --> 0:56:49.080 of voting rights and the failures to see like a 0:56:49.200 --> 0:56:52.920 voting right reform as an existential issue for not just 0:56:52.960 --> 0:56:57.360 the party, but like the concept of uh democracy in 0:56:57.400 --> 0:57:02.200 this country is is I think evident that however you 0:57:02.280 --> 0:57:04.800 kind of try to rationalize in your head why it's happening. 0:57:04.840 --> 0:57:09.680 There's a real disconnect between the party leadership and understandings 0:57:09.680 --> 0:57:13.279 of the new nature of reality. Yeah. Well that's the 0:57:13.280 --> 0:57:17.120 other thing. I mean, they'll be fine, right like outside 0:57:17.160 --> 0:57:20.520 of like another January six killing them all, Like they'll 0:57:20.560 --> 0:57:22.479 be fine. It doesn't like for them. It basically doesn't 0:57:22.480 --> 0:57:24.360 matter if Republicans take power. Maybe maybe some of them 0:57:24.400 --> 0:57:26.280 will get impeached, they'll be like a show trial for 0:57:26.360 --> 0:57:28.840 like two people or something, but like they're gonna be fine, 0:57:29.680 --> 0:57:31.720 and you know, that's that's the thing that motivates all 0:57:31.760 --> 0:57:34.880 of their thinking, is that they can survive another public administration. 0:57:35.200 --> 0:57:39.320 Like we're you know, we're dying under both of them, 0:57:39.360 --> 0:57:41.160 and you know, like I mean, this is this is 0:57:41.160 --> 0:57:42.480 partially you know, if you want to talk about sort 0:57:42.520 --> 0:57:44.320 of the COVID response for a second, in the relation 0:57:44.480 --> 0:57:46.240 that has to the election, it's like, yeah, the Democrats 0:57:46.240 --> 0:57:49.160 are just like completely given up even the pretense of 0:57:49.200 --> 0:57:54.200 doing literally anything about COVID literally because literally anything, yeah, 0:57:54.600 --> 0:57:57.240 go out and die, like so we can talk about that. 0:57:57.240 --> 0:58:00.040 That's a separate yeah, yeah, that's a separate issue, do 0:58:00.160 --> 0:58:02.520 I think, just in terms of like how how to 0:58:02.640 --> 0:58:05.320 interpret what they're doing with COVID and the degree to 0:58:05.360 --> 0:58:09.640 which I think they even have a chance of uh whatever. Um, 0:58:09.680 --> 0:58:11.360 But yeah, I was like, like like, they don't care if 0:58:11.360 --> 0:58:13.960 we live or die, Like we care if we live 0:58:14.040 --> 0:58:15.560 or die, and we're gonna have to do stuff on 0:58:15.600 --> 0:58:19.320 our own outside of this because they're just gonna kill 0:58:19.400 --> 0:58:22.919 us all. Yeah, I mean I think that it's hard 0:58:22.920 --> 0:58:26.480 for me to tell where the elections are going to 0:58:26.600 --> 0:58:31.040 go precisely. Uh. Biden's polling certainly isn't great. It's also 0:58:31.080 --> 0:58:35.440 not like wildly out of step with how where presidents 0:58:35.480 --> 0:58:39.160 often are kind of at this point, UM in in 0:58:39.240 --> 0:58:44.280 their cycle. So and also it's pretty normal for the 0:58:44.320 --> 0:58:46.840 party that just won the presidential election to lose at 0:58:46.880 --> 0:58:50.480 the midterms. That's more normal than not UM, I think. So, 0:58:50.560 --> 0:58:52.080 I think the big questions are number one, like the 0:58:52.120 --> 0:58:54.000 degree to which it's a wide sweep, which is going 0:58:54.080 --> 0:58:56.920 to depend on the actual impact a lot of these 0:58:57.200 --> 0:59:01.880 UM efforts to kind of restrict voting and jerrymander, Like 0:59:02.240 --> 0:59:05.720 what the actual on the ground impact is UM, and 0:59:06.080 --> 0:59:08.479 the degree to which we've seen an actual shift, because 0:59:08.520 --> 0:59:10.520 one of the things that the polls don't often tell 0:59:10.600 --> 0:59:14.840 us is like, yeah, Democrats are not popular. Most people 0:59:14.880 --> 0:59:16.680 seem to be aware that a lot of promises have 0:59:16.720 --> 0:59:19.720 gone unfulfilled, But it doesn't also mean that they like 0:59:19.840 --> 0:59:23.720 the Republicans UM, who as the party of Trump, are 0:59:23.720 --> 0:59:27.680 still kind of widely disliked by people. So it's kind 0:59:27.680 --> 0:59:31.240 of unclear to me what precisely is going to go down. 0:59:31.600 --> 0:59:33.200 By which I mean whether or not it's going to 0:59:33.240 --> 0:59:36.240 be a pretty normal midterm, whether Republicans pick up some 0:59:36.280 --> 0:59:40.200 seats or like a nightmare blowout. Um And I do 0:59:40.240 --> 0:59:41.920 think that has a lot to do with whether or 0:59:41.960 --> 0:59:47.360 not Biden and like does a couple of the things 0:59:47.400 --> 0:59:50.760 that a president can do unilaterally that would be really 0:59:50.800 --> 0:59:54.360 easy for other people to campaign on. Um. Like he 0:59:54.520 --> 0:59:57.240 they have to, like if they actually do want to win, 0:59:57.800 --> 0:59:59.760 they have to they have to make a couple of 0:59:59.760 --> 1:00:02.360 big hail mary's they have to do again, Biden has 1:00:02.360 --> 1:00:03.760 to do a couple of the big things that a 1:00:03.840 --> 1:00:06.520 president can do and then say, okay, see I did 1:00:06.520 --> 1:00:09.640 a thing, put more Democrats in, and we can do 1:00:09.680 --> 1:00:11.720 this other big thing that a president can't do on 1:00:11.760 --> 1:00:13.440 its own or something like that. Like I I just 1:00:13.520 --> 1:00:18.040 don't see, Um. I mean, you know, anything could happen. Still, 1:00:18.040 --> 1:00:21.960 it's fucking January. I think there's a positive if you 1:00:22.000 --> 1:00:23.800 want to in terms of things that are making me 1:00:23.880 --> 1:00:26.640 kind of optimistic. Um And and in terms of things 1:00:26.640 --> 1:00:28.840 that are better about when the Democrats are in powder 1:00:28.840 --> 1:00:32.640 and then the Republicans, you can bully the Biden administration 1:00:32.760 --> 1:00:35.120 to taking broadly positive action, which is what happened with 1:00:35.120 --> 1:00:37.760 student loan repayments, right, That's why that did get kicked 1:00:37.760 --> 1:00:39.880 down the can a couple of kick down the road 1:00:39.880 --> 1:00:43.560 a couple of months. Um. And so I do think 1:00:43.600 --> 1:00:48.560 there's potential in um harassing the Biden administration to taking 1:00:48.600 --> 1:00:51.720 actions that can make Democrats more popular. Um. That would 1:00:51.760 --> 1:00:53.560 not be the reason to do it. The reason to 1:00:53.600 --> 1:00:55.440 do it is so that people don't starve trying to 1:00:55.480 --> 1:01:00.360 pay back student loans. Um. But it does point to, 1:01:01.120 --> 1:01:03.680 I think in an avenue of hope. Um, if we're 1:01:03.680 --> 1:01:08.440 trying not to be complete dooomers in January. Yeah, and 1:01:08.760 --> 1:01:11.200 speaking of avenues of hope, it's time for an ad 1:01:11.240 --> 1:01:15.360 by Ah. The only thing that gives me hope is 1:01:15.400 --> 1:01:19.280 the products and services that support this podcast. And we 1:01:19.640 --> 1:01:28.160 are back back, we are, we are, i've i've I 1:01:28.200 --> 1:01:30.480 have a question. I would like us to talk about 1:01:32.120 --> 1:01:37.240 new year book list. Oh yeah, that's simple. So what's 1:01:37.360 --> 1:01:40.320 what's some I think we could answer this like? And 1:01:40.360 --> 1:01:43.040 then they also someone else followed up with saying, recommend 1:01:43.040 --> 1:01:45.160 some books that maybe not just let left this theory 1:01:45.160 --> 1:01:47.880 of climate change also some like fiction stuff as well. 1:01:48.200 --> 1:01:51.120 And I'm just gonna say the books that I'm reading 1:01:51.240 --> 1:01:52.800 or is on my reading list. Not I'm not going 1:01:52.840 --> 1:01:55.400 to recommend books I've already read. I'm just gonna say 1:01:55.400 --> 1:01:58.000 the ones I'm currently reading. UM. I'm still making it 1:01:58.000 --> 1:02:02.920 through hyper objects for an upcoming episode. UM. I picked 1:02:03.000 --> 1:02:05.200 up a really a book I wanted to get for 1:02:05.240 --> 1:02:08.880 a long time called Islands of Abandonment, which is about 1:02:09.760 --> 1:02:13.720 um people, Well, no, it's it's it's about places that 1:02:13.760 --> 1:02:18.560 have kind of been forgotten and regrown or taken to 1:02:18.880 --> 1:02:21.400 have been kind of reclaimed by the area that they were, 1:02:21.440 --> 1:02:24.080 that they were built on. And then I also have 1:02:24.160 --> 1:02:26.760 a random few books on alchemy that I'm going through 1:02:26.760 --> 1:02:33.400 as well. That's most of my books. Horrible. UM. I 1:02:33.600 --> 1:02:36.880 read the last book I finished in one was in 1:02:36.920 --> 1:02:40.800 the Garden of Beasts, which is by what is his name? 1:02:40.840 --> 1:02:44.160 I think it's Eric larson Um. He's a guy who's 1:02:44.200 --> 1:02:46.400 written He wrote like Devil in the White City and 1:02:46.520 --> 1:02:48.320 a couple of other books that people have probably read 1:02:48.560 --> 1:02:53.880 Eric larson Um, And it's about the first US ambassador 1:02:54.040 --> 1:02:57.280 to Nazi Germany or what becomes Nazi Journey. He gets 1:02:57.280 --> 1:02:59.960 sent there right before like like months before Hitler take 1:03:00.160 --> 1:03:04.720 power and The book largely traces he and his family's 1:03:04.960 --> 1:03:09.080 journey in Nazi Germany from like kind of didn't really 1:03:09.360 --> 1:03:13.520 care about German politics, and we're often broadly sympathetic towards 1:03:13.600 --> 1:03:16.520 the Nazis. They melt met like his daughter kind of 1:03:16.640 --> 1:03:20.040 is is very much like on board with the Nazi 1:03:20.160 --> 1:03:22.600 revolution for like the first half year that she's there. 1:03:22.800 --> 1:03:27.440 She's also like simultaneously dating the head of the Gestapo 1:03:27.600 --> 1:03:31.520 and the Soviet um like assistant ambassador, which is fascinating. Like, 1:03:31.560 --> 1:03:34.800 it's a very interesting book, um, And the story, like 1:03:34.840 --> 1:03:37.560 the journey this kind of family goes on realizing like 1:03:37.640 --> 1:03:40.880 what the Nazis are in the perspective of that. It's 1:03:40.960 --> 1:03:44.360 it's very well written. Um, it's very detailed. I really 1:03:44.480 --> 1:03:47.040 enjoyed it. The thing that I liked the most was 1:03:47.080 --> 1:03:50.280 the detail it goes into about the kind of the 1:03:50.360 --> 1:03:53.160 fates of because it's it's a more you know, obviously 1:03:53.280 --> 1:03:56.560 as much of a nerd on the history of fascism 1:03:56.560 --> 1:03:57.920 as I am, I've read a lot about the Night 1:03:57.920 --> 1:04:00.200 of Long Knives. This did the best job of kind 1:04:00.200 --> 1:04:02.520 of going into detail about the kind of dudes who 1:04:02.680 --> 1:04:04.760 the dudes who were purged in the Night of Long Knives. 1:04:04.800 --> 1:04:08.080 So these guys who were Nazis and that they wore 1:04:08.120 --> 1:04:10.360 swastikas and they were part of the party and whatnot, 1:04:10.600 --> 1:04:14.920 but also weren't Nazis enough to not get purged, and 1:04:14.920 --> 1:04:17.760 in a lot of cases were like starting to fall 1:04:17.800 --> 1:04:19.720 out of love with the party when the Night of 1:04:19.800 --> 1:04:23.240 Long Knives had And so it's these it's really interesting, 1:04:23.680 --> 1:04:26.800 UM and I recommend it to people. And the last 1:04:26.800 --> 1:04:29.320 book I started in the first book I finished in 1:04:30.000 --> 1:04:34.000 two was called Ministry of the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson, 1:04:34.040 --> 1:04:37.880 who is UM an interesting science fiction author, in part 1:04:38.000 --> 1:04:41.200 because Ministry of the Future is about climate change. UM. 1:04:41.240 --> 1:04:46.040 It is a a science fiction look at about like 1:04:46.080 --> 1:04:50.160 a thousand different potential solutions to climate change. And Kim 1:04:50.200 --> 1:04:53.440 Stanley Robinson is actually like an expert UM. He works 1:04:53.440 --> 1:04:56.120 for the Sierra Center. I think it's called UM. He's 1:04:56.160 --> 1:04:59.360 won a bunch of awards for his work on like 1:04:59.480 --> 1:05:02.840 trying to like posit different solutions to climate change. He's 1:05:02.880 --> 1:05:05.400 he he understands, he's not like coming at this from 1:05:05.440 --> 1:05:08.080 the perspective of an even even a well researched author. 1:05:08.120 --> 1:05:10.240 He's he's writing from the perspective of someone who is 1:05:10.240 --> 1:05:13.760 an actual scientific expert in what happens and how the 1:05:13.800 --> 1:05:17.080 different solutions might work. And the thing that's really interesting 1:05:17.120 --> 1:05:21.040 about Ministry of the Future is it's this fascinating melange 1:05:21.200 --> 1:05:24.640 of UM. Like a number of the character the Ministry 1:05:24.680 --> 1:05:28.040 of the Future is this kind of hypothetical new U 1:05:28.160 --> 1:05:31.200 N agency that's put in place after a horrible wet 1:05:31.240 --> 1:05:35.439 bulb um heat event kills twenty million people in India UM, 1:05:35.600 --> 1:05:38.880 and they're they're kind of trying to push for very 1:05:38.960 --> 1:05:42.200 technocratic solutions to climate change. So, like one of the 1:05:42.200 --> 1:05:43.880 big things the book focuses on a lot is this 1:05:43.960 --> 1:05:46.240 idea of a climate coin, which is a kind of 1:05:46.720 --> 1:05:52.800 um international backed by banks cryptocurrency that that pays as 1:05:52.880 --> 1:05:57.080 a kind of long term bond for sequestering carbon, so 1:05:57.160 --> 1:06:00.280 that like countries like Saudi Arabia that have huge oil 1:06:00.320 --> 1:06:03.880 reserves actually make more money by refusing to pump out 1:06:03.880 --> 1:06:06.000 oil and thus get paid in these coins. So it's 1:06:06.040 --> 1:06:10.360 really technocratic solutions like that. And then also terrorist groups 1:06:10.440 --> 1:06:13.240 that may be funded by this U N Agency building 1:06:13.280 --> 1:06:16.200 fleets of drones to murder people on commercial air flights 1:06:16.640 --> 1:06:19.360 UM in mass in order to cripple the entire air 1:06:19.400 --> 1:06:22.959 travel industry and stop carbon emission and carrying out mass 1:06:22.960 --> 1:06:27.920 assassinations on like CEOs of of oil companies living in 1:06:27.960 --> 1:06:30.480 their private islands. So it's this really interesting mix of 1:06:30.520 --> 1:06:34.280 like kind of liberal politicians and like bankers like working 1:06:34.280 --> 1:06:38.160 out these very wonky solutions to things, and like terrorists 1:06:38.160 --> 1:06:42.200 who have lost people in climate emergencies mass murdering um 1:06:42.240 --> 1:06:45.320 billionaires uh and and so it's it's a very it's 1:06:45.360 --> 1:06:49.400 the whitest possible ranging look at kind of different solutions 1:06:49.840 --> 1:06:51.880 to climate change and how they might work. And it's 1:06:51.880 --> 1:06:55.440 a very optimistic book. Um. And there's there's elements of 1:06:55.440 --> 1:06:57.120 it that I kind of the optimism I kind of 1:06:57.160 --> 1:07:01.280 disagree with. I think oddly enough Kim doesn't give enough 1:07:01.440 --> 1:07:05.280 weight to the dangers of authoritarian populism and and the 1:07:05.320 --> 1:07:07.520 threat I think they present to any of these kind 1:07:07.560 --> 1:07:10.360 of potential solutions. But it's still a very well thought 1:07:10.400 --> 1:07:13.680 out look at climate change and I think really worth 1:07:13.960 --> 1:07:17.880 reading um if you want something that will both bring 1:07:17.960 --> 1:07:20.000 up different because he also goes into a lot of 1:07:20.000 --> 1:07:24.240 like very scientific solutions, like pumping up water from underneath 1:07:24.280 --> 1:07:27.240 glaciers in order to stop glaciers from sliding, and like 1:07:27.320 --> 1:07:29.560 slow the rate of melt and all these these other 1:07:29.680 --> 1:07:32.800 kind of like very much like technical, here's a thing 1:07:32.880 --> 1:07:35.400 that we can do that will reduce the effect of 1:07:35.440 --> 1:07:39.040 this specific um kind of climate change. It's really a 1:07:39.160 --> 1:07:43.120 very good book. Um and it's apparently was Barack Obama's 1:07:43.120 --> 1:07:45.959 favorite book of the year, which, considering the degree which 1:07:45.960 --> 1:07:50.520 it talks about murdering politicians and business leaders, is interesting 1:07:50.600 --> 1:07:53.400 to me. I think he was maybe more paying attention 1:07:53.400 --> 1:07:57.440 to the carbon coins stuff than the shooting oil industry 1:07:57.440 --> 1:08:00.720 executives in their face while they're sleeping. He was also 1:08:00.760 --> 1:08:05.320 a fan of parasite, so he may just have been 1:08:05.360 --> 1:08:07.040 told this is a book you should say you like, 1:08:07.160 --> 1:08:08.840 but it is. It is a very good book. It 1:08:08.960 --> 1:08:12.360 is really worth reading. Um and it's it's it is 1:08:12.360 --> 1:08:15.200 a work of science fiction. But honestly it's like it's 1:08:15.240 --> 1:08:19.960 also it's well again, Kim really understands his stuff from 1:08:19.960 --> 1:08:22.960 a technical level, so I think it's pretty unimpeachable from 1:08:22.960 --> 1:08:25.600 that point of view. There are some kind of sociological 1:08:25.760 --> 1:08:30.280 areas where I don't think the book. I think there's 1:08:30.280 --> 1:08:35.120 some ship missing, particularly as regards the problems authoritarianism is 1:08:35.160 --> 1:08:37.720 going to cause in reaching for these solutions. But I 1:08:37.800 --> 1:08:41.360 think it's still really really valuable. And Chris, we're gonna 1:08:41.400 --> 1:08:49.320 hear your responses. But first capitalism, Chris reading reading a 1:08:49.360 --> 1:08:54.320 few things, Um, really more Chuang which is a theoretical 1:08:54.360 --> 1:08:57.040 journal about China that writes a lot of very very 1:08:57.080 --> 1:09:00.640 good stuff. They have probably the best account have ever 1:09:00.680 --> 1:09:04.799 seen of just what was going on during the socialist 1:09:04.800 --> 1:09:07.200 period and then also the sort of transition to capitalism 1:09:07.400 --> 1:09:09.080 that those are those are those are issues one and two, 1:09:09.080 --> 1:09:13.719 and they just published an issue about it, basically, how 1:09:13.880 --> 1:09:18.840 the pandemic response happens in China. It's it's absolutely fascinating. Um. 1:09:18.960 --> 1:09:20.800 It's also about sort of is this something that yeah, 1:09:20.840 --> 1:09:22.640 I've I've talked about a lot of their stuff on 1:09:22.640 --> 1:09:25.519 the show, sort of obliquely or directly, but like, you know, 1:09:25.560 --> 1:09:27.400 one of one of the big things is about how, 1:09:28.080 --> 1:09:29.800 in a lot of ways, the pandemic reveals the sort 1:09:29.840 --> 1:09:31.880 of weakness of the Chinese state and in a way 1:09:31.880 --> 1:09:37.040 that you know it is you don't see really because 1:09:37.120 --> 1:09:38.840 both both you know, both the Chinese state and the 1:09:38.880 --> 1:09:41.280 sort of like American media have this vested interest in 1:09:41.360 --> 1:09:44.520 showing like China's is sort of like all powerful authoritarian 1:09:44.520 --> 1:09:46.840 police state or whatever. Like the miliar image of it 1:09:46.880 --> 1:09:49.960 is like this isn't but you know what what you 1:09:50.080 --> 1:09:53.600 really see is that like this, the state has a 1:09:53.680 --> 1:09:56.360 very strong ability to intervene in like one province at 1:09:56.360 --> 1:09:58.400 a time, and they can you know when when when 1:09:58.400 --> 1:09:59.720 they focus, when they focus all of the sort of 1:09:59.760 --> 1:10:03.200 miss of power on like one area, right, they're extremely effective. 1:10:03.960 --> 1:10:06.479 They can't really do it in you know, multiplayers at 1:10:06.479 --> 1:10:07.840 the same time. And this means that you're dealing with 1:10:07.880 --> 1:10:10.680 all these sort of regional government stuff and it's it's 1:10:10.760 --> 1:10:15.120 very interesting. The the other thing that I have, well, okay, 1:10:15.120 --> 1:10:18.559 so do do we want to talk like a little 1:10:18.560 --> 1:10:20.240 bit about dawn of everything or do you want to 1:10:20.240 --> 1:10:23.320 save that for just like yeah, I I'm down to 1:10:23.320 --> 1:10:25.920 talk about that at any point. Yeah, ok, yeah, that's 1:10:25.920 --> 1:10:28.720 definitely on my list. That is a long one that's 1:10:28.760 --> 1:10:30.720 less of a read I think where most people are 1:10:30.720 --> 1:10:32.160 going to be less of a read in one sweep 1:10:32.200 --> 1:10:34.559 than like maybe for over the course of the year, 1:10:34.760 --> 1:10:38.360 like gradually. Yeah. Yeah, it's very very dense and very long, 1:10:38.400 --> 1:10:40.400 but very readable. Like not to say that it's like 1:10:40.880 --> 1:10:44.640 dense in the I gotta like slog through this textbook. 1:10:44.640 --> 1:10:47.519 It's extremely readable. It's just like there's a lot in 1:10:47.560 --> 1:10:51.679 there and you're gonna want to pause and think about ship. Yeah, 1:10:51.720 --> 1:10:53.680 so so they don't have everything is this is the 1:10:53.720 --> 1:10:57.360 last book David Graber ever wrote, and it's David wen 1:10:57.360 --> 1:11:01.400 Grow also. They wrote it together, and it's it's this 1:11:02.920 --> 1:11:10.960 basically an attempt to reassemble I guess, early human history. 1:11:11.200 --> 1:11:14.080 And but the thing that they're doing that that's that's 1:11:15.479 --> 1:11:20.559 really unique is that so they they're David one grows 1:11:20.800 --> 1:11:24.360 as archaeologist David Graeber's and an apologists and they're they're going, 1:11:24.640 --> 1:11:25.840 you know, so they spent a whole bunch of time 1:11:25.880 --> 1:11:29.760 going through the sort of early archaeological records, and what 1:11:29.800 --> 1:11:34.680 they find, basically is that none of the things that 1:11:34.760 --> 1:11:39.400 you see make any sense at all unless you're willing 1:11:39.479 --> 1:11:44.600 to unless you're willing to accept that people you know, 1:11:46.080 --> 1:11:47.479 years ago, and then even you know, people like four 1:11:47.560 --> 1:11:50.960 hive thousand years ago, we're as smart as we are 1:11:51.439 --> 1:11:54.599 and have the have the capacity to recreate and redesign 1:11:54.640 --> 1:11:58.360 their own political arrangements selfconsciously, which is something that doesn't 1:11:58.400 --> 1:12:03.040 sound that weird, except everyone assumes that they can't, and 1:12:03.080 --> 1:12:05.200 that you know, everyone that's you know, One of the 1:12:05.200 --> 1:12:08.000 other things that they're they're really sort of heavily doing 1:12:08.040 --> 1:12:12.599 here is trying to break this idea that you know, 1:12:13.479 --> 1:12:15.960 human society sort of evolves in these this linear progression. 1:12:16.000 --> 1:12:17.280 You know, you start out with like these small hunter 1:12:17.360 --> 1:12:20.920 gatherer bands and they get more complex quote unquote eventually 1:12:20.920 --> 1:12:23.000 they developed farming, and farming developed the state. And the 1:12:23.040 --> 1:12:24.600 answer is just, you know, when you look through the 1:12:24.600 --> 1:12:28.240 actual archaeological record, none of this is true. You have, 1:12:28.400 --> 1:12:30.519 you know, they have a lot of very interesting sort 1:12:30.560 --> 1:12:34.360 of historical examples of this, looking at like what looked 1:12:34.360 --> 1:12:37.040 like incredibly democratic and egalitarian cities, and then you know, 1:12:37.040 --> 1:12:38.919 on the outskirts of those cities you have the emergence 1:12:38.920 --> 1:12:41.920 of the states among things that look like states, among 1:12:41.960 --> 1:12:45.360 barbarian groups. And they have and what I think is 1:12:45.400 --> 1:12:47.800 maybe the most interesting part of it is that they're 1:12:48.680 --> 1:12:51.559 they're very concerned with the question of human freedom, but 1:12:51.640 --> 1:12:56.839 freedom in a way that like, we don't like freedom 1:12:56.840 --> 1:12:59.200 on a level fundamental enough that like we can barely 1:12:59.240 --> 1:13:02.280 imagine it. So they have these things called the Three freedoms, 1:13:02.320 --> 1:13:04.840 which is one of them is so the first one 1:13:04.880 --> 1:13:09.439 is the freedom just move to leave and to it's 1:13:09.439 --> 1:13:11.160 it's the freedom to to you know, be in a 1:13:11.160 --> 1:13:13.200 place and then leave and know that you will be 1:13:13.240 --> 1:13:16.679 cared for when you get to wherever you're going. Yeah, 1:13:16.800 --> 1:13:19.000 these kind of networks that were set up so that 1:13:19.040 --> 1:13:21.800 people could travel that have like the descendant of those 1:13:21.840 --> 1:13:23.920 ideas is sort of the way if you ever if 1:13:23.920 --> 1:13:26.000 you've ever spent time in the Middle East, not in 1:13:26.080 --> 1:13:29.000 like hotels and ship like it's that same idea that 1:13:29.120 --> 1:13:33.360 kind of deeper than religious belief about the importance of 1:13:33.479 --> 1:13:36.200 that has gotten added to like Islam and into a 1:13:36.280 --> 1:13:38.720 number of other faiths in the area. Like, but this 1:13:38.800 --> 1:13:42.120 idea that like there's nothing more sacred than taking care 1:13:42.160 --> 1:13:45.519 of a of a guest um like and and how 1:13:45.600 --> 1:13:48.960 that that that existed to enable kind of a sort 1:13:48.960 --> 1:13:53.320 of cross cultural contract and contact and like recreational travel 1:13:53.720 --> 1:13:55.799 in a way that I think it would be deeply 1:13:55.840 --> 1:13:59.360 surprising to people who just sort of assumed everyone before 1:13:59.360 --> 1:14:02.320 a certain age died within five miles of their house 1:14:02.479 --> 1:14:04.600 or was you know, yeah, part of a band of 1:14:04.680 --> 1:14:07.400 wandering hunters. Yeah. And it's it's interesting in that like, 1:14:07.400 --> 1:14:09.639 like like we we in a lot of ways travel 1:14:09.720 --> 1:14:11.960 less than early people did, because you know that people 1:14:12.000 --> 1:14:14.519 would just leave and people, you know, people just didn't 1:14:14.520 --> 1:14:16.760 like their families, and so they'd walk like five miles 1:14:16.800 --> 1:14:18.559 and they they'd come to a place and they'd be accepted. 1:14:18.560 --> 1:14:21.400 And yeah, and you know, and like the second one 1:14:21.439 --> 1:14:24.280 that I think is the one that is the one 1:14:24.360 --> 1:14:26.719 we have the least capacity, I think to understand, which 1:14:26.840 --> 1:14:30.960 is just the ability to disobey orders. Just like anyone 1:14:30.960 --> 1:14:32.320 tells you do something, you could just tell them know 1:14:33.120 --> 1:14:35.080 at any time. And it's not only can you just 1:14:35.080 --> 1:14:38.600 tell them no, Like the social expectation is that you 1:14:38.760 --> 1:14:41.040 is that you don't act, is that it's it's it's 1:14:41.040 --> 1:14:42.559 it's not just that you have the ability to do it. 1:14:42.560 --> 1:14:45.759 It's that someone giving you an order is treated as weird. 1:14:45.840 --> 1:14:49.439 And this is a thing that you know, like like this, 1:14:49.560 --> 1:14:51.280 this is the thing. This is a freedom that used 1:14:51.320 --> 1:14:53.800 to exist and no longer does and was sort of 1:14:53.840 --> 1:14:56.160 destroying various ways along with sort of the third freedom 1:14:56.160 --> 1:14:58.760 to talk about, which is about how people have the 1:14:58.840 --> 1:15:01.479 right to sort of just shift and recreate their their 1:15:01.479 --> 1:15:06.160 social political arrangements. And yeah, and people used to do 1:15:06.200 --> 1:15:08.320 this sort of I mean people, you know a lot 1:15:08.320 --> 1:15:09.960 of the what the early part of the book is 1:15:09.960 --> 1:15:12.800 about is about how societies you there there's a lot 1:15:12.800 --> 1:15:14.720 of societies that would you know, flip seasonally, right, so 1:15:14.760 --> 1:15:16.600 what like one half of the year you have this 1:15:16.760 --> 1:15:19.040 just like absolutelytatorship. The other half of the year it's like, 1:15:19.080 --> 1:15:22.200 well it looks like a hippie commune. And you know 1:15:22.320 --> 1:15:25.080 the fact that we do not like the fact that 1:15:25.120 --> 1:15:28.920 like we we we just don't like it, cannot conceive 1:15:28.960 --> 1:15:33.320 of completely shifting our political arrangements like that is. It's 1:15:33.360 --> 1:15:37.719 also there's this fascinating discussion of like the fact that 1:15:38.439 --> 1:15:40.720 and this is kind of counter to what I had 1:15:40.720 --> 1:15:43.479 always kind of thought that like once as a group 1:15:43.560 --> 1:15:46.000 groups of people when they when they made the decision 1:15:46.040 --> 1:15:50.400 to like move to agriculture um and like set founded cities, 1:15:50.680 --> 1:15:52.840 that it was kind of a one way street. You know, 1:15:53.040 --> 1:15:55.320 you you just keep going along that road. And there's 1:15:55.320 --> 1:15:58.680 actually multiple examples of people's like this is what what 1:15:58.720 --> 1:16:01.320 happened to the British aisles, or at least in what 1:16:01.520 --> 1:16:06.519 is currently Great Britain. People's like developing agriculture, settling down 1:16:06.560 --> 1:16:08.240 and then being like oh, you know what, fuck this 1:16:08.520 --> 1:16:11.080 and like going back like that that should should happen 1:16:11.120 --> 1:16:13.439 all the time. And one of the things that's really 1:16:13.560 --> 1:16:17.439 kind of optimistic about the vision of of the sweep 1:16:17.439 --> 1:16:19.960 of human history in the dawn of everything is the 1:16:20.000 --> 1:16:23.200 idea that like, no, we don't have to keep like 1:16:23.240 --> 1:16:26.040 it's not inevitable that we just keep doing more of 1:16:26.080 --> 1:16:28.960 what we're doing now. All throughout history, large groups of 1:16:29.000 --> 1:16:31.679 people have been like, it's time to let's do something else, 1:16:31.760 --> 1:16:35.080 let's make a radical change, like it happens um And 1:16:35.120 --> 1:16:38.040 it's probably more normal to do that than it is 1:16:38.160 --> 1:16:40.120 to do what we've been doing. And when you I 1:16:40.160 --> 1:16:42.760 think one of the things that kind of one of 1:16:42.760 --> 1:16:44.680 the things that leads to the sense of inevitability of 1:16:44.720 --> 1:16:46.840 development along the lines that we have is is the 1:16:46.840 --> 1:16:48.960 fact that we only really have about ten thousand years 1:16:48.960 --> 1:16:54.480 of even vaguely reliable like data um or vaguely comprehensive 1:16:54.560 --> 1:16:57.960 data on human history. But people have been around for 1:16:58.200 --> 1:17:00.280 tens of thousands of years longer than that, and for 1:17:00.400 --> 1:17:03.200 most of it we've been a lot more experimental than 1:17:03.240 --> 1:17:06.759 we are now. And it's it's always possible for people 1:17:06.840 --> 1:17:10.400 to try different things in a way that um maybe 1:17:10.439 --> 1:17:14.479 seems impossible to us now but but necessarily won't for 1:17:14.520 --> 1:17:17.559 our kids. Oh yeah, The last thing I would tell 1:17:17.600 --> 1:17:19.479 people to listen to if they're looking for a fictional 1:17:19.680 --> 1:17:23.800 optimistic thing is Corey Doctors walk Away. Um, give it 1:17:23.840 --> 1:17:26.599 a read. And if you're if you're looking for like 1:17:26.640 --> 1:17:30.760 a a like a beautiful like not to get your 1:17:30.760 --> 1:17:32.920 head out of the One of the things I'm really 1:17:32.920 --> 1:17:35.960 passionate about is plants. And I have this beautiful book 1:17:35.960 --> 1:17:39.799 called the Planet Pedia and it's really helpful for caring 1:17:39.800 --> 1:17:42.240 for your house plants. And it's just like aesthetically just such. 1:17:42.400 --> 1:17:45.280 The photographs are beautiful and it's one of my favorite 1:17:45.280 --> 1:17:48.040 things to give friends and family. To check that one 1:17:48.080 --> 1:17:51.000 out as well. Another another plant book that I just 1:17:51.080 --> 1:17:53.639 got for somebody that I really like. I think it's 1:17:53.680 --> 1:17:56.920 called Wicked Plants. It's about all the courses plants that 1:17:57.160 --> 1:18:00.120 you can get um and the ones all the the 1:18:00.160 --> 1:18:02.760 poison plants you can cultivate in your own garden. And 1:18:02.840 --> 1:18:05.960 that's been a lovely read. Um, and I do hope 1:18:06.000 --> 1:18:08.759 to set up a decent poison garden here in the spring. 1:18:09.000 --> 1:18:13.240 So very excited. Yeah me too, It's going to be great. Well, 1:18:13.360 --> 1:18:18.320 let's get to another question. Um, do you guys want 1:18:18.320 --> 1:18:22.439 like a fluff question or like a real question? Uh? 1:18:22.640 --> 1:18:24.680 Let's do a fluff one and we can start the 1:18:24.720 --> 1:18:29.040 next episode with a real, real juicy fluff me daddy, 1:18:29.280 --> 1:18:32.000 all right, Okay, that's a little gift to all of 1:18:32.040 --> 1:18:39.160 you at home. On the topic of hobbies, so so 1:18:39.240 --> 1:18:44.280 I just Garrison likes poisonous plants. I like non poisonous plants. Uh, 1:18:44.439 --> 1:18:51.280 what hobbies are you into that we may not know about? Um? 1:18:51.320 --> 1:18:54.639 I guess I can only say one thing here. Really well, 1:18:54.760 --> 1:18:57.360 I don't know. Yeah, you should be really careful about 1:18:57.360 --> 1:19:01.160 how you answer this one. I know what your hobbies are. 1:19:02.880 --> 1:19:07.000 Let's have everyone else go first. UM. I just got 1:19:07.040 --> 1:19:09.400 into three D printing. I'm currently trying to figure out 1:19:09.400 --> 1:19:13.880 how to get a BS to act adhere properly. Yeah. 1:19:13.920 --> 1:19:16.080 That was the problem I had with my printer is 1:19:16.120 --> 1:19:18.599 that it would I would get like a decent way 1:19:18.600 --> 1:19:20.160 through the first part of the print, and then part 1:19:20.160 --> 1:19:22.680 of it would like come curl off, so then it 1:19:22.680 --> 1:19:25.000 wouldn't print the next layer on correctly. Then it must 1:19:25.160 --> 1:19:28.840 up the print. And yeah, I was between mental health 1:19:28.880 --> 1:19:31.320 stuff and that at the time. I was s today 1:19:31.320 --> 1:19:32.840 on my printer. This is when I just gave up 1:19:32.840 --> 1:19:35.519 because it was too much. So I'll be excited to 1:19:35.560 --> 1:19:38.960 see how you get past this turtle. Well, I've I've 1:19:38.960 --> 1:19:42.920 got a glass bed coming in, so I'm gonna yeah, 1:19:42.960 --> 1:19:45.160 and I've I've got the enclosure. One of the issues 1:19:45.200 --> 1:19:47.519 I'm having is just that I'm having a heating issue 1:19:47.560 --> 1:19:50.000 with the bed. It won't heat up. It stops before 1:19:50.000 --> 1:19:51.679 it gets to one tin, which is what it should 1:19:51.680 --> 1:19:53.639 be able to go up that high. But it's just, yeah, 1:19:54.320 --> 1:19:59.400 can you manually heat it up hotter? It doesn't seem 1:19:59.439 --> 1:20:01.800 to matter. It doesn't seem to matter if I if 1:20:01.840 --> 1:20:03.880 I said it, like I can't obviously, like you can. 1:20:04.000 --> 1:20:05.680 You can set it up to heat, but it just 1:20:05.760 --> 1:20:08.640 keeps I keep getting that like loud error beep. So 1:20:08.680 --> 1:20:10.720 there's like there's this is going to be It's going 1:20:10.800 --> 1:20:13.839 to be a process of jiggering to to to figure 1:20:13.880 --> 1:20:18.120 it out. Um, but you can, Yeah, I have, I have. 1:20:18.320 --> 1:20:21.000 I've I have a similar problem with my setup right 1:20:21.000 --> 1:20:22.880 now that I've been trying to troubleshoot for the half 1:20:22.920 --> 1:20:26.720 a year. Um, I can manually control the heat bed 1:20:26.760 --> 1:20:29.559 and it does get that hot. But still I think 1:20:29.640 --> 1:20:31.400 it may just be a leveling issue. I may need 1:20:31.439 --> 1:20:34.080 to like clean the bed. I also should have talked 1:20:34.080 --> 1:20:37.320 to someone who has done more three D printing than me. Um. 1:20:37.360 --> 1:20:40.640 But yeah, yeah, but it's it's it's fun. I I 1:20:40.760 --> 1:20:43.360 enjoy it. It's very it's radically different from the stuff 1:20:43.400 --> 1:20:46.400 that I like do for a living um, which is 1:20:46.600 --> 1:20:49.439 always my favorite thing for like a a task to 1:20:49.600 --> 1:20:52.880 engage in in order to be relaxing, because it's it's 1:20:52.920 --> 1:20:56.519 not at all like reading and writing. It's very different. 1:20:56.920 --> 1:20:59.320 It's very different. So so far, I'm enjoying it. And 1:20:59.360 --> 1:21:01.080 I already I printed the thing I need to do 1:21:01.120 --> 1:21:07.360 to make the the bio um the biolab for like 1:21:07.439 --> 1:21:09.400 the Four Thieves stuff. If you want to check out 1:21:09.400 --> 1:21:12.600 our episode with Michael from the Four Thieves Vinegar Collective. 1:21:12.920 --> 1:21:14.960 I've three D printed that part, so I'm ready to 1:21:15.520 --> 1:21:18.400 get the other parts and put that thing together. Um. 1:21:18.439 --> 1:21:20.160 I'm just trying to figure out how to print other 1:21:20.200 --> 1:21:23.519 stuff with better plastics and whatnot. But yeah, it's it's fun. 1:21:23.600 --> 1:21:27.160 So far, I'm I'm enjoying it a lot. Um. Maybe 1:21:27.200 --> 1:21:30.160 I'll get bored, Maybe I'll wind up spending way too 1:21:30.240 --> 1:21:32.240 much money on different three D printers, like the ones 1:21:32.280 --> 1:21:36.760 that lift the goo out of the resin printers are there. 1:21:37.000 --> 1:21:40.200 They's so they're much like this is what this is 1:21:40.360 --> 1:21:42.360 what Corey doctor was talking about, Like, like they are 1:21:42.479 --> 1:21:45.200 much better at the filament printers in a lot of ways, 1:21:45.640 --> 1:21:48.800 but a lot of like a lot of the stuff. 1:21:49.520 --> 1:21:52.240 A lot of the really useful machines that you can 1:21:52.320 --> 1:21:56.000 make with three printers require you to use filaments right now, um, 1:21:56.040 --> 1:21:59.400 but the resin ones are like so much more elegant. 1:21:59.680 --> 1:22:02.519 They're beautiful. Um. I also am really interested in the 1:22:02.560 --> 1:22:05.160 idea of printing would which I did not realize until 1:22:05.200 --> 1:22:08.040 recently you could do but it's absolutely possible with certain 1:22:08.120 --> 1:22:12.360 kinds of printers. Um, And that seems pretty dope. So 1:22:12.520 --> 1:22:15.240 I don't know, we'll see how. Maybe I'll be tired 1:22:15.280 --> 1:22:17.400 of it in a month because my mental health will 1:22:17.400 --> 1:22:23.240 take a dive, But so far, I'm pretty excited. Cool Chris, 1:22:24.160 --> 1:22:27.519 what do I do? Uh? Well, Okay, so before the pandemic, 1:22:27.560 --> 1:22:31.800 I was getting into rock climbing. But unfortunately, like like 1:22:31.840 --> 1:22:33.640 I like rock climbing, I'm not like, oh, it's like 1:22:33.680 --> 1:22:35.880 the best thing you can do for you. It's a 1:22:35.880 --> 1:22:40.120 lot of fun, but unfortunately, I mean it's not like 1:22:40.160 --> 1:22:43.519 the worst pandemic thing you could possibly do, but like 1:22:43.800 --> 1:22:46.960 it's no So if you get up high enough on 1:22:47.000 --> 1:22:51.360 the rocks. COVID can't get up there. It's like the 1:22:51.400 --> 1:22:55.960 opposite of a bear. It's really bad at climbing. Yes, 1:22:55.960 --> 1:22:58.519 so I guess the other what do I even do? 1:22:58.600 --> 1:23:02.559 Is Okay? So my other thing okay, so so deep 1:23:02.720 --> 1:23:06.160 like deep Twitter lure. People will probably know this about me, 1:23:06.240 --> 1:23:08.720 But I am I have been for a very very 1:23:08.760 --> 1:23:14.680 long time, like an inveterate fan of competitive StarCraft two. Okay, 1:23:15.000 --> 1:23:17.639 I am awful at it, Like I am terrible at 1:23:17.680 --> 1:23:21.479 that game. But I have watched so much StarCraft two, 1:23:21.520 --> 1:23:24.280 like I I StarCraft two has become enough of my 1:23:24.360 --> 1:23:27.760 life that like, like the game was part of my 1:23:27.880 --> 1:23:33.840 radicalization process, like so yeah, I wake up extremely early 1:23:33.960 --> 1:23:36.439 or stay up extremely late and watched Korean StarCraft two 1:23:36.520 --> 1:23:39.040 and non Korean StarCraft two, and yeah, it's it's a 1:23:39.040 --> 1:23:43.720 good time. It's I My favorite thing about StarCraft in 1:23:43.760 --> 1:23:47.639 general is thinking about the fact that Blizzard was initially 1:23:47.640 --> 1:23:50.719 trying to make a Warhammer forty video game, and Games 1:23:50.720 --> 1:23:53.880 Workshop was as always too paranoid of their I p 1:23:54.160 --> 1:23:56.800 to let it happen, and thus lost how many god 1:23:56.880 --> 1:23:58.760 knows how many. They would be worth more money than 1:23:58.760 --> 1:24:04.040 most countries like, yeah, been printing an impossible amount of money, 1:24:04.640 --> 1:24:10.600 like Indie Chambers would have been able to buy a 1:24:11.280 --> 1:24:17.360 mountain of cocaine to live inside, but but no, instead 1:24:17.400 --> 1:24:21.000 we got all of the infrastructure of modern esports. Mm hm, 1:24:21.800 --> 1:24:24.639 which it seems fine, like it's whatever, I don't care, 1:24:24.760 --> 1:24:27.320 but it is very funny to me that they were like, nah, 1:24:27.520 --> 1:24:31.240 this doesn't seem like a good financial decision for games Workshop, 1:24:32.160 --> 1:24:36.120 this StarCraft thing, Like I wonder like that. That's the 1:24:36.200 --> 1:24:37.600 kind of thing where it's like, if they made that 1:24:37.680 --> 1:24:40.680 much money, would they all just retire? Like well, I 1:24:40.720 --> 1:24:43.600 mean it's a publicly traded company, like the stock the 1:24:43.680 --> 1:24:48.320 shareholders would have made a fortune and the but yeah, 1:24:48.400 --> 1:24:50.559 I don't know. It's very it's very funny that they 1:24:50.560 --> 1:24:53.679 didn't think that was going to be worth it. Let's see, 1:24:53.680 --> 1:24:56.080 in terms of how these people may not know. I 1:24:56.200 --> 1:24:59.479 do really like cooking. I take cooking classes for a 1:24:59.560 --> 1:25:03.160 long time. Um that's been the main cook in my 1:25:03.200 --> 1:25:06.000 family since I was a very little kid, so I 1:25:06.080 --> 1:25:10.400 definitely definitely enjoy that. Um. I did go to film 1:25:10.439 --> 1:25:12.240 school for a few years. I want to get back 1:25:12.280 --> 1:25:18.080 into making short video projects. I've been writing some random 1:25:18.200 --> 1:25:22.240 kind of new weird genre esque stuff that I would 1:25:22.240 --> 1:25:25.439 love to like rent a studio space and actually shoot 1:25:25.560 --> 1:25:29.800 some silly things in the next year and throw them 1:25:29.840 --> 1:25:33.640 up online just for kind of my own fun. Um. 1:25:33.760 --> 1:25:38.959 And then I also been still doing random occultism stuff. Um, 1:25:39.000 --> 1:25:45.840 that's kind of how I feel my time. Yeah, it's fun. Yeah. 1:25:45.960 --> 1:25:48.160 I think that's an answer. That is an answer. We 1:25:48.240 --> 1:25:54.040 did it. That's an answer, and more importantly, that's an episode. 1:25:53.040 --> 1:25:56.839 That episode that is an answer. That is a single content. 1:25:57.040 --> 1:25:59.240 You all got a content out of us, and will 1:25:59.479 --> 1:26:04.240 be proud of yourselves, replicate and reproduce another content tomorrow 1:26:04.280 --> 1:26:07.840 that's more eased to your cues. So a content every 1:26:07.920 --> 1:26:12.080 day except for the weekends, because that's the promises that 1:26:12.160 --> 1:26:24.360 we make and some holidays. Look for your children's eyes 1:26:24.640 --> 1:26:27.519 to see the true magic of a forest. It's a 1:26:27.640 --> 1:26:30.759 storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. 1:26:31.200 --> 1:26:34.080 They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms 1:26:34.160 --> 1:26:37.960 outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They 1:26:38.000 --> 1:26:41.040 see a windy path that could lead to adventure, and 1:26:41.120 --> 1:26:45.320 they see you. They're fearless. Guide. Is this fascinating world. 1:26:45.680 --> 1:26:48.519 Find a forest near you and start exploring and Discover 1:26:48.600 --> 1:26:50.840 the Forest dot org, brought to you by the United 1:26:50.880 --> 1:26:54.200 States Forest Service and the AD Council. Give us over attention. 1:26:54.240 --> 1:26:57.360 We need everything you've got Fast Waiting on Reparations. We'd 1:26:57.400 --> 1:27:01.840 beat the podcast every Thursday, politics and wordplay. We fight 1:27:01.920 --> 1:27:04.080 for the people because they got us in the worst way, 1:27:04.280 --> 1:27:07.280 from the Hill Cooper, the Bomb Bay to Kant, from 1:27:07.280 --> 1:27:10.280 the left enclave to what the neo kanse every th 1:27:11.160 --> 1:27:13.479 heavy conversation and to break us off with some break 1:27:13.479 --> 1:27:18.080 because we're waiting. Listen to Waiting on Reparations on the 1:27:18.080 --> 1:27:21.080 I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get 1:27:21.120 --> 1:27:25.439 your podcasts. Raffie is the voice of some of the 1:27:25.600 --> 1:27:31.640 happiest songs of our generation. Baby So who is the 1:27:31.680 --> 1:27:36.040 man behind Baby Bluga? Every human being wants to feel 1:27:36.080 --> 1:27:40.559 respected when we start with you at all good things 1:27:40.600 --> 1:27:44.040 can grow from there. I'm Chris Garcia, comedian, new dad 1:27:44.160 --> 1:27:46.800 and host of Finding Raffie, a new podcast from my 1:27:46.880 --> 1:27:50.080 Heart Radio and Fatherly. Listen every Tuesday on the I 1:27:50.160 --> 1:27:59.479 Heart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome 1:27:59.520 --> 1:28:02.680 Back It could happen here, the podcast where Jay your 1:28:02.720 --> 1:28:05.400 Boltonaro was once again in the hospital getting all of 1:28:05.439 --> 1:28:16.600 the feats sucked out of his hospital. The most consistently 1:28:16.800 --> 1:28:19.920 dying man in the world. You know what, this man 1:28:19.960 --> 1:28:23.040 in history, you know, actually literally full of ship again, 1:28:23.640 --> 1:28:27.720 you know what? You know what this means. It approximately 1:28:28.680 --> 1:28:32.560 three four weeks, Stephen Crowder is going to get some 1:28:32.800 --> 1:28:36.960 horrible illness. And if we said to the hospitals, well 1:28:37.560 --> 1:28:41.720 the cycle, this is the only like the cycling. My 1:28:41.840 --> 1:28:43.840 hope for both of them is that they find out 1:28:43.840 --> 1:28:46.679 that each has an obscure disease that can only be 1:28:46.880 --> 1:28:49.280 cured by piping ship from the other into them, and 1:28:49.280 --> 1:28:51.559 so they just hook them up via a tube and 1:28:51.600 --> 1:28:53.559 they're just sucking poop out of each of them and 1:28:53.600 --> 1:28:56.160 putting it into the other person. That would be very 1:28:56.200 --> 1:29:00.479 funny hot all right, what's her first question? Our first question? 1:29:00.520 --> 1:29:02.880 So this was specifically addressed to Chris, So Chris, you 1:29:02.880 --> 1:29:04.679 can answer first. But I think this is a question 1:29:04.760 --> 1:29:07.800 for for everyone. Really, what is your favorite piece of 1:29:07.880 --> 1:29:10.519 history that you haven't been able to talk about yet 1:29:10.560 --> 1:29:14.080 on the show that isn't deserving of a whole episode 1:29:15.720 --> 1:29:19.680 favorite piece of I mean, we ain't talked about the 1:29:19.760 --> 1:29:24.520 Zapatista as yet because I don't I don't yet feel comfortable, 1:29:24.880 --> 1:29:28.000 uh with with my level of knowledge there. But it's 1:29:28.000 --> 1:29:32.120 definitely history that's extremely relevant to the kind of ship 1:29:32.200 --> 1:29:38.160 we talked about on the show. Have I talked about 1:29:38.160 --> 1:29:41.200 the water and gas wars and Bolivia on the show? 1:29:42.640 --> 1:29:44.679 We've talked about that at all? Either? Yeah, I mean althought. 1:29:44.680 --> 1:29:47.000 I mean that that probably is deserving of its own episode. 1:29:47.040 --> 1:29:50.839 But absolutely a bunch of people just literally like blocking 1:29:50.880 --> 1:29:52.800 every road in the entire country and starving out the 1:29:52.920 --> 1:29:55.320 ruling class because they can't like import food into the 1:29:55.320 --> 1:29:58.680 city because they've blocked every single road. Extremely cool, I 1:29:58.720 --> 1:30:04.880 guess in terms of like really short, not deserving of 1:30:04.960 --> 1:30:09.240 its own episode. I don't know either, because I've I've 1:30:09.280 --> 1:30:13.280 been able to elongate all my periods into episodes. Yeah, 1:30:13.280 --> 1:30:15.040 I don't know that there's anything we wouldn't cover. There's 1:30:15.040 --> 1:30:17.799 certainly things we haven't covered yet for a variety of reasons. 1:30:17.840 --> 1:30:20.120 Often just like I don't feel like we've had the 1:30:20.120 --> 1:30:22.200 time to do a lot of work. There's a lot 1:30:22.240 --> 1:30:24.679 of work. Yeah, it's like why why haven't why haven't 1:30:24.720 --> 1:30:26.439 we done a MAO episodes? Like do you know how 1:30:26.479 --> 1:30:29.800 much ship that motherfucker got in his life? I have 1:30:29.920 --> 1:30:34.200 been like mentally like psychologically preparing myself to start working 1:30:34.200 --> 1:30:38.920 on Mao. Like this is a ah, that's that Actually, no, 1:30:40.080 --> 1:30:43.599 it's the mango cults. It's definitely the mango colts. Did 1:30:43.640 --> 1:30:45.760 you did you did you know about this? No, the 1:30:45.800 --> 1:30:49.640 mango Colts. Yeah, okay, So so Mao got like I 1:30:49.720 --> 1:30:52.240 forget who was I want to say it was the 1:30:52.240 --> 1:30:56.200 Prime Minister of Pakistan some some like dignitary like gave 1:30:56.280 --> 1:30:57.920 him a man. This is this is like this is 1:30:57.920 --> 1:30:59.840 the beginning of the cultural revolution. Somebody gives him a 1:30:59.880 --> 1:31:03.000 main and he like hands this mango off to like 1:31:03.320 --> 1:31:07.280 a red mango and like they like like this this 1:31:07.320 --> 1:31:10.400 turns into like a cult. Like people like they take 1:31:10.439 --> 1:31:12.880 this mango, they like preserve it. It's it's like they 1:31:12.880 --> 1:31:14.599 have like they have like a shrine to the mango 1:31:14.720 --> 1:31:18.759 and like like there's this whole cult apparatus like builds 1:31:18.840 --> 1:31:21.479 up around just people getting mangoes as like tokens of 1:31:21.520 --> 1:31:24.240 Mao's favors. This just like this this massive things that 1:31:24.360 --> 1:31:27.599 is this. This this spreads like wildfire. It's like people 1:31:27.600 --> 1:31:30.519 are doing this in like the far western reaches of 1:31:30.640 --> 1:31:34.479 China where like like in places where like there's like 1:31:34.680 --> 1:31:37.560 like like there there are places in China where like 1:31:37.600 --> 1:31:40.559 civil wars breakout and it takes people like a week 1:31:40.680 --> 1:31:44.080 to like send representatives like across China to go like 1:31:44.120 --> 1:31:45.800 talk to the Central Committee to argue their case, and 1:31:45.840 --> 1:31:48.599 like even in those places they have mango cults and 1:31:48.640 --> 1:31:51.720 it is it is wild. The culture revolution is a 1:31:53.080 --> 1:31:56.040 is a it is a time. It is. Well, I 1:31:56.120 --> 1:31:59.720 know what I'm getting everyone for Christmas this year. Mango. 1:32:00.280 --> 1:32:03.439 They're my favorite fruit. Like the Well, we'll see if 1:32:03.439 --> 1:32:08.280 the species survives this next summer. Oh we will. Yeah, 1:32:09.400 --> 1:32:17.000 we'll just be growing, just be growing in Siberia. Mangoes 1:32:17.040 --> 1:32:21.519 sprouting from the corpses of fucking antelope. That is beautiful. Um, 1:32:21.560 --> 1:32:27.799 I can't think of anything. Next question, okay, uh, speaking 1:32:27.840 --> 1:32:30.639 of history, I like this one. If you could fight 1:32:30.800 --> 1:32:34.519 anyone in history, wait for it and lose, who would 1:32:34.560 --> 1:32:38.639 you fight? And why? Who would I fight and lose 1:32:39.040 --> 1:32:41.880 and lose? Like you still get like a few good 1:32:41.960 --> 1:32:45.639 hits in or something, but you'd lose, David Bowie because 1:32:45.680 --> 1:32:50.360 it would be hot. Next question, other people good answering, 1:32:50.400 --> 1:32:53.439 I guess no. I think that's a good that's the 1:32:53.520 --> 1:32:58.639 perfect answer. I would happily be hit by David Bowie, 1:32:58.800 --> 1:33:02.760 so sure, why there? Yeah, And I know that David 1:33:02.800 --> 1:33:05.759 Bowie really loved to hit teenagers. I would be totally hitting. 1:33:05.760 --> 1:33:08.720 In the other sense, I would be fine with anything. 1:33:09.640 --> 1:33:17.840 I don't care when it comes to Bowie. Wow, that's problematic. Problematic. 1:33:18.280 --> 1:33:22.000 Uh huh. We got a few questions about the ethics 1:33:22.160 --> 1:33:27.200 of leaving the United States as things get worse. Okay, 1:33:27.520 --> 1:33:31.960 that's yeah. And this is something that I know we've 1:33:31.960 --> 1:33:35.320 talked about. You've got that get out of America and 1:33:35.520 --> 1:33:39.040 I see. That's the thing is that, like I already 1:33:39.080 --> 1:33:41.720 have my Canadian passport, so that is something that I 1:33:41.760 --> 1:33:44.720 can do at any time. And that's something that I 1:33:44.720 --> 1:33:47.479 probably will do at some point, because one I can 1:33:47.520 --> 1:33:50.639 see myself in my theorties and forties, living in Canada 1:33:50.640 --> 1:33:53.320 will be a lot easier in a lot of ways 1:33:53.560 --> 1:33:56.679 in terms of like how much money it will cost 1:33:56.720 --> 1:33:59.360 for me to live and pay certain things, like living 1:33:59.439 --> 1:34:01.200 in Canada a certain point will just make a lot 1:34:01.200 --> 1:34:04.880 more sense for me. So yeah, I probably will move up. Um. 1:34:04.920 --> 1:34:07.960 And I also know that getting past Canadian border patrol 1:34:08.080 --> 1:34:10.400 not that hard in terms of other people wanting to 1:34:10.439 --> 1:34:13.800 go legally or illegally. That's it is actually pretty easy 1:34:13.840 --> 1:34:16.240 to get to get up there. Um, if you want 1:34:16.240 --> 1:34:18.080 to do it legally, that's definitely a lot a lot 1:34:18.080 --> 1:34:22.000 more work, but also not impossible. Um yeah, I think. 1:34:22.040 --> 1:34:24.439 I mean, like it's important to know that, like moving 1:34:24.479 --> 1:34:28.400 to somewhere else is not escaping the effects, because the 1:34:28.400 --> 1:34:31.680 effects are going to reach everywhere, but it can have 1:34:31.720 --> 1:34:36.759 a lot of advantages, um, especially kids. Yeah. So I 1:34:36.760 --> 1:34:40.240 I say moving up is or moving away from the 1:34:40.280 --> 1:34:43.360 States is a decent thing for a lot of people. 1:34:43.400 --> 1:34:46.960 I don't feel the need to stay and fight for 1:34:47.120 --> 1:34:49.519 something that I don't really care about what's in the 1:34:49.520 --> 1:34:54.519 first place anyway, UM, So sure do what makes you 1:34:54.760 --> 1:34:58.000 happy in the time that you have alive. I feel 1:34:58.040 --> 1:35:00.920 like that's a that says as ethical as you need 1:35:01.000 --> 1:35:04.760 to get Yeah, I don't think anyone has a responsibility 1:35:04.880 --> 1:35:09.880 to like stay in uh fight to the death uh 1:35:10.160 --> 1:35:14.960 in in a collapsing country. Um As as a general rule, 1:35:15.000 --> 1:35:18.960 I'm very sympathetic towards refugees. And that's kind of what 1:35:19.000 --> 1:35:21.759 you would be if you're talking about fleeing the United States, 1:35:21.800 --> 1:35:24.559 because you're it's in the process of falling apart and 1:35:24.640 --> 1:35:27.280 things are you suspect a lot about to get a 1:35:27.320 --> 1:35:29.280 lot more violent, especially if you have again, like a 1:35:29.360 --> 1:35:34.559 family kids. Um I I had options to do that 1:35:34.560 --> 1:35:38.240 that I've I've chosen at this point not to UM, 1:35:38.280 --> 1:35:43.400 not to pursue UM, but UH, I get white people 1:35:43.439 --> 1:35:46.320 would and as a general rule, like I spent I 1:35:46.400 --> 1:35:49.840 spent once when I was UM in UH in Bosnia 1:35:49.920 --> 1:35:53.400 and Serbia talking to survivors of the genocide there in 1:35:53.439 --> 1:35:57.719 the nineties. UM. I took a train ride UM from 1:35:58.240 --> 1:36:02.960 Sarajevo to like a little town own near Strubernitza and Uh. 1:36:03.040 --> 1:36:05.040 During the train ride, I wound up like hanging out 1:36:05.080 --> 1:36:07.600 with this dude who had been born and raised in 1:36:07.680 --> 1:36:11.760 Yugoslavia and had been living in Canada since the Civil War, 1:36:11.920 --> 1:36:16.639 and he, like very through in his kind of broken English, 1:36:16.680 --> 1:36:18.960 explained like, yeah, when the war broke out, all of 1:36:19.000 --> 1:36:20.840 my friends, all of these other young guys I knew, 1:36:20.880 --> 1:36:22.800 were like, well, you know, we're gonna fight, We're gonna fight. 1:36:22.840 --> 1:36:24.840 And I said, no, no, no, no no, went to 1:36:24.880 --> 1:36:26.800 Canada and this is the first time I've been back, 1:36:26.840 --> 1:36:29.920 and that was the smart thing to do. UM. So 1:36:29.960 --> 1:36:32.080 I'm not I mean, if you can get the if 1:36:32.120 --> 1:36:34.240 you can get out and find a place that's safer, 1:36:34.280 --> 1:36:37.280 as Garrison said, like there's there's nothing I think that 1:36:37.320 --> 1:36:42.559 inherently behooves you to spend your uh limited time on 1:36:42.600 --> 1:36:45.880 this planet struggling, And especially if you've got a family, 1:36:45.920 --> 1:36:47.680 like doing what you can to put them in a 1:36:47.680 --> 1:36:51.519 safer position is great. That said, none of it's a 1:36:51.560 --> 1:36:54.040 permanent or even necessarily a long term solution. Like the 1:36:54.040 --> 1:36:56.040 idea of moving to Canada has a lot of appeal, 1:36:56.080 --> 1:36:58.640 but like if you think that Canada is going to 1:36:58.760 --> 1:37:01.720 keep being what a lot of Americans see it as 1:37:01.760 --> 1:37:05.360 as the United States collapses into like fascism, I don't 1:37:05.400 --> 1:37:08.880 know how realistic a proposition that really is. And it's 1:37:08.880 --> 1:37:10.600 the same for a lot of places, Like all of 1:37:10.600 --> 1:37:14.840 these problems are global problems, and moving geographically unless you're 1:37:14.840 --> 1:37:18.559 wealthy enough to move to like some fortified compound protected 1:37:18.560 --> 1:37:22.320 by contractors in a place that is actually insulated from 1:37:22.320 --> 1:37:26.120 climate change to a significant extent, um is not the 1:37:26.800 --> 1:37:29.719 does not bring the degree of security you might expect. Um. 1:37:29.800 --> 1:37:32.000 I do think there is. I do think it is 1:37:32.400 --> 1:37:37.080 generally speaking a noble and positive thing, uh to to 1:37:37.080 --> 1:37:40.040 to stay and try to make things better where you are. 1:37:40.320 --> 1:37:43.320 But um, you know, I think everybody I think everyone. 1:37:43.479 --> 1:37:46.400 I think every single person, whether they admit it or not, 1:37:46.960 --> 1:37:49.920 would leave at a certain point if they possibly could. Um, 1:37:49.960 --> 1:37:53.120 And I don't think anyone is. I don't think anyone 1:37:53.160 --> 1:37:58.040 owes it to the world to like, uh die in 1:37:58.080 --> 1:38:02.840 a place that uh they hate just because um that's 1:38:02.880 --> 1:38:07.400 where they were born. And we're back. Okay, Oh, this 1:38:07.439 --> 1:38:11.200 is a good one. What tool besides bolt cutters should 1:38:11.200 --> 1:38:14.680 we all own in a collapse situation? First of all, 1:38:14.680 --> 1:38:17.439 bolt cutters That should not be your first picture to 1:38:17.560 --> 1:38:20.719 for a tool. No, No, it should be an angle 1:38:20.840 --> 1:38:25.200 grinder with a diamond blade. No. Even like water filters 1:38:25.280 --> 1:38:28.879 gotten me out of a number of types water filtration systems, 1:38:29.120 --> 1:38:31.560 there's more starters, Like, there's a lot of there's a 1:38:31.520 --> 1:38:34.439 lot of stuff, if not even not water filtration, you 1:38:34.439 --> 1:38:36.720 can get tablets or honestly, like you can have a 1:38:36.720 --> 1:38:40.400 little hand pump filter and water purification tablets along with 1:38:40.400 --> 1:38:43.240 a little you know, there's a number of things that 1:38:43.280 --> 1:38:45.040 are that should be in a go bag. A way 1:38:45.080 --> 1:38:48.559 to get some amount of of already clean water, in 1:38:48.600 --> 1:38:51.600 a way to get more clean water, enough food to 1:38:51.720 --> 1:38:56.719 at least deal with three to five days. Um, some rope, um, 1:38:56.760 --> 1:39:00.280 a good knife, multi tool is even better in most 1:39:00.320 --> 1:39:03.200 situations if you have if you don't mind the weight, 1:39:03.360 --> 1:39:05.960 a belt knife and a multi tool would be great, 1:39:06.040 --> 1:39:08.200 or a multi tool in a little hand ax, which 1:39:08.479 --> 1:39:10.519 depending on where you live, might be more useful in 1:39:10.920 --> 1:39:15.559 splitting wood, a good fire starter, UM, some amount of 1:39:15.640 --> 1:39:18.640 rubbing alcohol, which is always a handy thing to have 1:39:18.880 --> 1:39:23.400 on hand. UM. Either maps or you know, batteries for 1:39:23.439 --> 1:39:25.960 an electronic device that might be able to act as 1:39:25.960 --> 1:39:32.240 a map. Um. Yeah, that that's all useful stuff. UM. 1:39:32.439 --> 1:39:34.519 I do I I do keep in the boot of 1:39:34.560 --> 1:39:37.920 my car generally an angle grinder. UM. I have come into, 1:39:38.040 --> 1:39:39.920 especially living out in the middle of nowhere, a couple 1:39:39.960 --> 1:39:43.160 of situations like sometimes somebody has a health emergency and 1:39:43.160 --> 1:39:46.280 there is a fence in the way. Um, and it's 1:39:46.040 --> 1:39:48.479 it has been something that is and is I think 1:39:48.600 --> 1:39:51.439 going to be easier for boat cutters are good at 1:39:51.479 --> 1:39:53.759 what they do. They also require a lot of forearm 1:39:53.800 --> 1:39:55.840 and upper body strength that is not going to be 1:39:55.880 --> 1:39:58.200 as much of an option for people. So angle grinder 1:39:58.720 --> 1:40:01.040 not a bad thing to have in any sort of like. 1:40:01.479 --> 1:40:03.400 It's especially if you like if you're if you're planning 1:40:03.400 --> 1:40:04.680 a kid, like I want to keep ship in my 1:40:04.680 --> 1:40:07.639 car because the wildfires are coming right. Um, well, you're 1:40:07.760 --> 1:40:10.960 probably don't want a battery powered saw. Um because depending 1:40:10.960 --> 1:40:12.879 on the capable even if you have a very capable 1:40:12.920 --> 1:40:15.639 off roading vehicle, everyone I know who does serious overlanding, 1:40:15.680 --> 1:40:18.360 it's like, well you keep a fucking chainsaw in there 1:40:18.360 --> 1:40:20.519 because sometimes you need to cut wood out of the 1:40:20.560 --> 1:40:22.080 way and you're just not going to get your car 1:40:22.200 --> 1:40:25.320 over it. Um. So it really depends on what you're doing, 1:40:25.400 --> 1:40:29.920 and like what the what the the kind of potential 1:40:30.200 --> 1:40:34.320 threats you're worried about are um, But yeah, I think 1:40:34.400 --> 1:40:38.160 the basics are way to get water, some amount of food, 1:40:38.760 --> 1:40:42.439 ability to start a fire. Something like a space blanket 1:40:42.560 --> 1:40:44.160 is useful. If you live in a place where it 1:40:44.200 --> 1:40:47.040 actually gets cold, you should have a space blanket and 1:40:47.120 --> 1:40:51.880 a wool blanket or a couple of wool blankets because 1:40:51.920 --> 1:40:54.559 those will retain heat much better. Wool keeps like eight 1:40:54.720 --> 1:40:57.240 percent of its insulating capacity even when wet, and like 1:40:57.479 --> 1:41:01.680 layering wool and u uh, survival blankets um can be 1:41:01.720 --> 1:41:04.400 a really effective way to keep yourself from dying in 1:41:04.400 --> 1:41:10.040 in in bad weather situations. UM. That said, depending on 1:41:10.080 --> 1:41:12.439 where you are, there may be no realistic way to 1:41:12.520 --> 1:41:14.960 protect yourself in the like if you are in certain 1:41:15.000 --> 1:41:17.080 parts of the Midwest at certain parts of the winter, 1:41:17.520 --> 1:41:19.920 it may not matter so much, like what blankets you 1:41:19.960 --> 1:41:23.920 have access to frustrating in the wilders and there's no 1:41:24.040 --> 1:41:28.760 like structures around you, then yeah it's negative. There's only 1:41:28.800 --> 1:41:33.519 so much. Yeah, I do love collecting a lock bypass tools. 1:41:33.720 --> 1:41:35.800 It's one of my favorite things is just to have 1:41:35.920 --> 1:41:40.639 these practice using them. Um. Something I got for when 1:41:40.640 --> 1:41:43.760 I went to the Earth First Gathering that worked out 1:41:43.840 --> 1:41:48.280 pretty well was a foldable solar panel that connects to USB. 1:41:48.439 --> 1:41:51.920 That's enough to keep my phone alive always. So in 1:41:52.000 --> 1:41:55.200 terms of always wanting a map, this little foldable thing 1:41:55.400 --> 1:41:57.360 is enough to keep my phone able to have a 1:41:57.400 --> 1:42:00.799 map assuming I have cell service. So I was skeptical 1:42:00.880 --> 1:42:04.040 of how much this thing could work. Um, and it 1:42:03.560 --> 1:42:06.600 it did a decent enough job. It even kept it 1:42:06.600 --> 1:42:10.320 even kept like my iPad pro um uh powered as well, 1:42:10.439 --> 1:42:14.120 so it had had a decent amount of square footage 1:42:14.120 --> 1:42:18.519 once you unroll it. So that was very useful. But yeah, 1:42:18.600 --> 1:42:22.120 I mean, I I really like luck bypass stuff. Um, 1:42:22.120 --> 1:42:24.040 it's one of one of one of my other hobbies. 1:42:24.680 --> 1:42:27.000 So this is you know a variety of tools in 1:42:27.040 --> 1:42:29.200 that type that it's nice to get, like a decent 1:42:29.200 --> 1:42:33.960 collection of also, like especially now, but probably in general, 1:42:34.080 --> 1:42:37.360 like have masks, like just I mean just in general, 1:42:37.520 --> 1:42:41.040 like have have masks, have lots of them, make sure 1:42:41.080 --> 1:42:45.240 you can change them. Yeah, I have a gas mask 1:42:45.320 --> 1:42:49.040 if that's at all physically like respond like fiscally possible 1:42:49.120 --> 1:42:51.400 for you. Mira is the one I think Garrison and 1:42:51.439 --> 1:42:55.240 I would both recommend to the want like a very 1:42:55.360 --> 1:43:00.640 good gas mask, really good gas It's wonderful. Again all 1:43:00.680 --> 1:43:02.519 of these kids, there's the kid are like, Okay, what 1:43:02.680 --> 1:43:05.040 is the what is what's necessary? And then there's like, 1:43:05.080 --> 1:43:06.840 all right, if you have money or if you have 1:43:06.880 --> 1:43:08.800 time that you want to learn extra skills, what are 1:43:08.800 --> 1:43:11.080 other things like lock picks? If you're just a random 1:43:11.160 --> 1:43:12.960 Joe and you've never like, don't throw lock picks in 1:43:12.960 --> 1:43:14.599 your kid, if you've never done any lock picks ship, 1:43:14.680 --> 1:43:18.240 they're not going to help you. Um. But if that 1:43:18.240 --> 1:43:20.519 that is a skill that is worth picking up and 1:43:20.640 --> 1:43:25.920 that will make you like more resilient. Um yeah um 1:43:25.920 --> 1:43:29.519 Oh and a fourteen point nine millimeter anti material rifle. Um, 1:43:29.600 --> 1:43:31.839 you're always gonna need one of those. They're at they 1:43:31.920 --> 1:43:34.960 stay supersonic it up to three and a half miles UM, 1:43:35.000 --> 1:43:38.679 which is really useful. So definitely, definitely, And they're only 1:43:39.400 --> 1:43:42.160 you probably aren't going to spend more than dollars getting 1:43:42.160 --> 1:43:44.479 one set up, So it's it's really for the price 1:43:44.680 --> 1:43:48.160 of a of a fairly new Toyota Prius, you could 1:43:48.200 --> 1:43:51.960 have UM an anti material rifle that can pierce armored 1:43:52.040 --> 1:43:54.840 vehicles at at several miles distance. And really what is 1:43:54.880 --> 1:44:00.400 more pragmatic a survival tool than that, And for it 1:44:01.720 --> 1:44:07.760 it's only like around that's just a moderately expensive meal 1:44:07.920 --> 1:44:15.360 per bullet. Christopher, Uh, do you think that corporations like 1:44:15.479 --> 1:44:23.160 Walmart or Amazon could become more militaristic? Yeah, I mean yeah, 1:44:23.200 --> 1:44:25.880 I think I think absolutely. The trend that worries me 1:44:25.920 --> 1:44:30.559 as Amazon's increasing um collaborations with and deeper connections with 1:44:30.640 --> 1:44:34.160 like the FBI and other kind of law enforcement agencies. Um. 1:44:34.160 --> 1:44:36.600 The degree to which target has also like with the 1:44:36.640 --> 1:44:40.200 FBI and like with other agencies, because they're they're anti 1:44:40.200 --> 1:44:43.720 shrink department and whatnot. They're like, they're the surveillance they've 1:44:43.720 --> 1:44:46.880 built to stop theft is so advanced. They have one 1:44:46.920 --> 1:44:49.679 of the best crime labs in the whole United States. Yeah, 1:44:50.720 --> 1:44:53.800 organizations like Tiger Swan, which is a mercenary group that 1:44:53.880 --> 1:44:57.360 the Dakota Pipeline people, the Dapple folks like hired to 1:44:57.439 --> 1:44:59.720 crack down on the Standing Rock protests and have have 1:45:00.040 --> 1:45:02.920 worked in other There's other organizations like that that we're 1:45:03.360 --> 1:45:06.800 active during the BLM protests and kind of the I 1:45:06.800 --> 1:45:10.559 I do think we're seeing a para militarization of a 1:45:10.600 --> 1:45:13.960 lot of these corporation a lot of these corporations in 1:45:14.040 --> 1:45:16.960 order to protect their but they see their financial interests 1:45:17.720 --> 1:45:21.000 um and that that is that is proceeding rapidly, And 1:45:21.040 --> 1:45:23.760 it's not the thing that I'm not most I'm not 1:45:23.840 --> 1:45:27.960 most worried about them. Like do like having armed forces, 1:45:28.000 --> 1:45:30.439 although there will be some degree of that. There's already 1:45:30.479 --> 1:45:32.960 that's already happen, Like in Portland and downtown Portland there 1:45:32.960 --> 1:45:39.120 are armed effectively like mercenaries guarding certain businesses and certain 1:45:39.160 --> 1:45:42.559 areas like as a result of like you know, to 1:45:42.920 --> 1:45:45.679 deal with quote unquote the gun crime or whatever property 1:45:45.720 --> 1:45:47.640 crime that's raised. But the thing that I think is 1:45:47.640 --> 1:45:51.240 most concerning is the degree to which they are professionalizing 1:45:51.439 --> 1:45:56.559 a paramilitary surveillance apparatus UM and Amazon has done it 1:45:56.560 --> 1:45:59.120 to do stuff like crackdown on union organizing and whatnot like, 1:45:59.640 --> 1:46:02.559 so yeah, I'm very concerned with that. I'm I I 1:46:02.680 --> 1:46:05.280 think that the the dimension of it that's most frightening 1:46:05.360 --> 1:46:09.280 is not necessarily like the shadow run, you know, corporations 1:46:09.360 --> 1:46:13.920 buying armies, but rather corporations buying like intelligence agencies. UM 1:46:14.080 --> 1:46:15.840 is kind of the thing that I think will actually 1:46:15.880 --> 1:46:18.479 be the biggest threat UM because in a lot of cases, 1:46:18.600 --> 1:46:20.760 generally speaking, if I have to deal with an armed 1:46:20.760 --> 1:46:24.000 security guard or a cop, that security guard is going 1:46:24.080 --> 1:46:25.400 to be less of a pain in the ass than 1:46:25.439 --> 1:46:28.639 the cop. UM. Not always, but as a general rule, 1:46:28.680 --> 1:46:31.559 I'm less worried about security guards than cops, even armed ones. 1:46:32.479 --> 1:46:35.280 I think another thing that's important to keep in mind 1:46:35.560 --> 1:46:38.679 is that yeah, I means like I don't, I don't. 1:46:38.800 --> 1:46:40.840 I really don't think there's a danger that we're going 1:46:40.920 --> 1:46:44.280 to go back to like East India company style, like 1:46:45.120 --> 1:46:47.519 people with mass armies, because it's it's literally too expensive, 1:46:47.600 --> 1:46:50.559 like you can't, it's it's too expensive, and the armies 1:46:50.560 --> 1:46:53.519 that exist already do that. Yeah, yeah you don't need them. 1:46:53.560 --> 1:46:54.920 But but I mean, I think that the thing, the 1:46:54.920 --> 1:46:59.280 thing that's like scary outside of the intelligence stuff, which 1:46:59.280 --> 1:47:01.640 is terrifying, but it's the stuff they do down like 1:47:02.240 --> 1:47:04.320 like you call it down the supply chain, which is 1:47:04.360 --> 1:47:07.800 like you know, like cocol and murdering union organizers with paramilitaries, right, 1:47:07.800 --> 1:47:11.800 they tend to work through like like you know, the 1:47:11.800 --> 1:47:15.360 corporations will back rebel groups, right, corporations will back like 1:47:15.520 --> 1:47:17.160 you know, in Colombia, you see a lot of this 1:47:17.200 --> 1:47:22.320 if like you have these sort of like these I 1:47:22.360 --> 1:47:24.360 mean something about some of the back by just directly 1:47:24.400 --> 1:47:27.040 by landholding holding corporations. Some of them are backed by 1:47:27.960 --> 1:47:31.559 just individual large landholders. But you get these, like you know, 1:47:31.600 --> 1:47:34.360 you get basically these paramilitaries that are sort of the 1:47:34.400 --> 1:47:38.120 third wave after the army goes in, and that stuff 1:47:38.160 --> 1:47:40.040 is very scary or probably we're probably gonna see more 1:47:40.080 --> 1:47:44.960 of that, and yeah, but but but but I think 1:47:44.960 --> 1:47:50.360 it's it's kind of important that there's there there's an 1:47:50.400 --> 1:47:54.760 extent to which again you'll see them having their own mercenaries. 1:47:54.800 --> 1:47:58.679 But a lot of the time it's there's some kind 1:47:58.680 --> 1:48:02.320 of thing when when companies really need to kill someone, 1:48:03.080 --> 1:48:07.400 they tend to outsource that to aid like another sort 1:48:07.439 --> 1:48:10.320 of paramilitary organization that's like not directly in their supply chain. 1:48:10.960 --> 1:48:13.439 It's like it's not directly under their training command. Mhm. 1:48:14.120 --> 1:48:17.360 So yeah, that's that's a good and fun time that 1:48:18.040 --> 1:48:23.320 we'll probably just get worse mhm. Speaking of corporate uh 1:48:23.960 --> 1:48:28.320 Funkery or whatever. Coca Cola add I hope, I hope 1:48:28.320 --> 1:48:30.559 we do get a Coca Cola add because nothing soothes 1:48:30.880 --> 1:48:35.360 my quench like a cherry vanilla Coca Cola. Nothing soothes 1:48:35.400 --> 1:48:39.200 your quench? Did That's what I said. Those are words 1:48:39.240 --> 1:48:42.360 that came out of a Now we're back, okay, Robert. 1:48:42.479 --> 1:48:46.320 Somebody had a question about an article you wrote back 1:48:46.320 --> 1:48:48.400 when you worked at Crack about a woman who was 1:48:48.479 --> 1:48:52.120 hiding from their family. The end of article, you mentioned 1:48:52.120 --> 1:48:53.640 that you haven't heard from her in a couple of 1:48:53.640 --> 1:48:56.920 weeks leading up to and they want to know if 1:48:56.960 --> 1:48:59.960 you've ever heard from her again. So yeah, that's a bummer. 1:49:00.080 --> 1:49:02.120 The pseudonym I'm I'm not going to use her real 1:49:02.200 --> 1:49:03.599 name in this, but the pseudonym I used for her 1:49:03.600 --> 1:49:05.280 in the article was as Am. She was a woman 1:49:05.360 --> 1:49:10.599 who lived in Um, the EU, and uh was under 1:49:10.640 --> 1:49:12.880 threat of honor killing from her family, who were from 1:49:12.920 --> 1:49:17.800 Pakistan in origin Um because she was an atheist, was 1:49:17.840 --> 1:49:21.800 not um religious hardliner UM and didn't want to be. 1:49:21.840 --> 1:49:23.639 And for years she had kind of hidden that from 1:49:23.680 --> 1:49:25.720 her family, Like she'd moved out on her own, but 1:49:25.800 --> 1:49:27.799 she'd hidden the fact that, like she had a boyfriend. 1:49:27.800 --> 1:49:29.880 She'd hidden the fact that she'd liked played dungeons all 1:49:29.920 --> 1:49:31.559 of this stuff, Like she played D and D and 1:49:31.640 --> 1:49:33.240 was like scared that, like that was like her dad 1:49:33.240 --> 1:49:35.000 would literally fucking kill her. And this is a thing 1:49:35.040 --> 1:49:36.960 that happens. This is a thing that happens in the 1:49:37.040 --> 1:49:39.439 United States and the EU. UM it's a problem with 1:49:39.479 --> 1:49:43.200 like fundamentalist um Islam, and that's not the only religion. 1:49:43.439 --> 1:49:45.640 There's honor killings as a result on. But that was 1:49:46.400 --> 1:49:48.639 her specific situation. One of the things she was frightened 1:49:48.640 --> 1:49:51.560 about is her family would go back to Pakistan regularly, 1:49:51.640 --> 1:49:53.960 and she was concerned. She wanted to go because it 1:49:53.960 --> 1:49:55.640 was the only way to see her grandparents, but she 1:49:55.720 --> 1:49:58.519 was also concerned that if her parents found out when 1:49:58.520 --> 1:50:03.400 they went back, they would basically imprison her somewhere where 1:50:03.400 --> 1:50:05.160 she would not be able to get out and get 1:50:05.200 --> 1:50:07.280 back to her home and she would be forced to 1:50:07.520 --> 1:50:09.920 be married off or something. So she was working with 1:50:09.960 --> 1:50:13.000 an organization UM in the country in the EU where 1:50:13.040 --> 1:50:16.160 she lived that helped people extricate themselves and and the 1:50:16.280 --> 1:50:17.519 kind of one of the last things she told me 1:50:17.600 --> 1:50:19.240 is that, like well, the things she was looking at 1:50:19.280 --> 1:50:21.960 doing because she was so worried about her dad was 1:50:22.120 --> 1:50:25.479 a total break. Was like one day with the help 1:50:25.520 --> 1:50:27.800 of this organization, she would just be gone and in 1:50:27.840 --> 1:50:30.200 another part of the EU and would have a complete 1:50:30.200 --> 1:50:34.120 break from her life and would completely stop living as 1:50:34.200 --> 1:50:38.439 the identity UM she had had her entire life. UM. 1:50:38.439 --> 1:50:40.519 And I never heard from her again after that, after 1:50:40.560 --> 1:50:42.639 like three or four different interview sessions, and I still 1:50:42.640 --> 1:50:45.720 have not uh. And my hope is that she did 1:50:45.720 --> 1:50:47.360 the thing she said she was going to do, and 1:50:47.400 --> 1:50:50.800 she just completely burned that email and every other way 1:50:50.840 --> 1:50:53.080 people had of getting in touch with her. UM. And 1:50:53.160 --> 1:50:56.280 she's doing great now. But I really have no idea. UM, 1:50:56.320 --> 1:51:00.240 I have absolutely no idea what happened to her. Oh uh, 1:51:01.000 --> 1:51:03.479 So we would people want an update on the quest 1:51:03.560 --> 1:51:08.280 for eel horse. Uh. Still no, still no horse. Still 1:51:08.320 --> 1:51:12.720 have not found an entire horse carcass um. But but 1:51:12.800 --> 1:51:20.320 one day it'll happen, you know, it'll happen. Okay, it's 1:51:20.320 --> 1:51:24.120 gonna be good, Garson. That gator that I shoved a 1:51:24.120 --> 1:51:27.920 turkey or a duck inside and a turkey next too, 1:51:28.000 --> 1:51:30.320 was pretty good. It was great after I took it 1:51:30.360 --> 1:51:33.519 out of the pit as you were wrestling people screaming. Well, 1:51:33.520 --> 1:51:35.720 that's the only way to properly cook it. The right 1:51:35.760 --> 1:51:37.679 amount of time is to get drunk enough that people 1:51:37.680 --> 1:51:39.439 have to fight you to remove it from the fire gear. 1:51:41.479 --> 1:51:43.880 That's how cooking works. I don't know, if you've done 1:51:43.920 --> 1:51:47.639 much of it in your life, you'll you'll understand one day. 1:51:48.120 --> 1:51:50.479 This This is a question that I find interesting because 1:51:50.479 --> 1:51:52.960 I feel like it really must understand not to like 1:51:53.160 --> 1:51:56.080 insult the person asking it, But I think that that's 1:51:56.080 --> 1:52:00.920 not That's not what I'm trying to do. The question is, um, 1:52:00.960 --> 1:52:04.960 what population can the post capitalist world sustain and thrive 1:52:05.040 --> 1:52:07.840 on with our ideas and concepts? A billion? Like we 1:52:07.880 --> 1:52:10.800 currently have six billion to a billion less than ability? Like, 1:52:10.920 --> 1:52:13.400 how how do people are you willing to lose to 1:52:13.520 --> 1:52:17.880 achieve sustainability? Because I forget that about the community and 1:52:18.000 --> 1:52:20.960 are optimistic with proper technology and ecosustainability techniques, we can 1:52:21.000 --> 1:52:23.960 maintain a population close to what we have now. And yeah, 1:52:24.000 --> 1:52:26.519 I feel like just the framing of this question kind 1:52:26.520 --> 1:52:31.040 of approaches our current problems and the solutions we have 1:52:31.160 --> 1:52:34.040 in a weird way, because I don't think we're not 1:52:34.080 --> 1:52:38.360 trying to reach a peak population. We're trying to make 1:52:38.400 --> 1:52:40.800 sure the people that we have have enough stuff to 1:52:40.920 --> 1:52:43.920 live well. And we have that right now. We we 1:52:43.920 --> 1:52:47.639 we overproduce everything. We make about one and a half 1:52:47.680 --> 1:52:49.919 times as much food as we need to to feed everybody. 1:52:50.160 --> 1:52:53.639 Yet there are billions and millions of people who go hungry. 1:52:53.760 --> 1:52:59.120 So it's not a so like it's approaching this question. Yeah, 1:52:59.240 --> 1:53:01.560 so approaching this in terms of, like how could the 1:53:01.560 --> 1:53:04.720 post capitalist world thrive on our ideas and like I 1:53:05.280 --> 1:53:09.920 we're not trying to like reach a certain population number, 1:53:10.360 --> 1:53:13.840 where I think going it from that way is kind 1:53:13.880 --> 1:53:15.760 of a little silly because I feel like it should 1:53:15.760 --> 1:53:18.720 be the opposite is. But yeah, I don't know why 1:53:18.760 --> 1:53:20.280 we don't think we need to start the population and 1:53:20.439 --> 1:53:23.640 then go down. The point is is, look what we have, 1:53:23.760 --> 1:53:26.679 here's the people. Let's distribute this like a network instead 1:53:26.720 --> 1:53:30.599 of a top down kind of system. Yeah. I think 1:53:30.640 --> 1:53:32.519 that one of the things you have to if you're taught, 1:53:32.560 --> 1:53:35.479 if you're trying to talk about social ecology. One of 1:53:35.520 --> 1:53:38.759 the things you have to resist UM is this idea 1:53:38.840 --> 1:53:43.200 that like they're overpopulation is any part of the problem. 1:53:43.280 --> 1:53:48.200 It is not. Consumption is a problem, UM, But there's 1:53:48.240 --> 1:53:51.320 plenty of resources. The problem is again one of allocation. 1:53:51.840 --> 1:53:54.240 And if you were to actually develop a much more 1:53:54.240 --> 1:53:56.720 equitable society where people were getting enough, one of the 1:53:56.760 --> 1:53:59.519 things that we have seen demographically all over the world 1:53:59.600 --> 1:54:04.920 when um the level of kind of UM, when the 1:54:04.920 --> 1:54:08.919 the sort of resources available per capita and a population increases, 1:54:09.400 --> 1:54:13.439 is people have less kids UM. And And like I 1:54:13.760 --> 1:54:15.680 think that, yeah, it's certainly good to say that, like, 1:54:15.760 --> 1:54:18.760 in a world that is more equitable, the human population 1:54:18.800 --> 1:54:22.560 will naturally level off and decrease somewhat. But that the 1:54:23.280 --> 1:54:26.040 thing that's not the same as saying that, like we 1:54:26.080 --> 1:54:29.599 need to decrease the population. We need to increase um 1:54:29.640 --> 1:54:33.520 equity UM and make sure that people have access to 1:54:33.560 --> 1:54:37.200 the resources that they need UM and also that people 1:54:37.240 --> 1:54:40.560 who are massively over consuming aren't allowed to do that anymore. 1:54:40.640 --> 1:54:44.040 You know, that will solve the problems and scale back 1:54:44.160 --> 1:54:47.200 all of the resources being put towards useless growth and 1:54:47.280 --> 1:54:52.520 predicting towards better distribution. Thus actually mean, like the questioner 1:54:52.680 --> 1:54:54.920 used the term like post capitalists. I don't think we're 1:54:54.960 --> 1:54:57.400 gonna get to a post capitalist world ever, like, at 1:54:57.440 --> 1:54:59.240 least at least not when I'm allowed. I don't think 1:54:59.600 --> 1:55:02.640 like a world No. Will there be post capitalist areas, probably, 1:55:02.880 --> 1:55:04.360 but we're never gonna get there. There's never gonna be 1:55:04.400 --> 1:55:06.800 a post capitalist world. I don't. I don't. I don't 1:55:06.840 --> 1:55:09.920 think that. I also think it's entirely possible that we 1:55:09.960 --> 1:55:12.200 will reach points that people in the time will not 1:55:12.280 --> 1:55:15.400 necessarily consider post capitalists, because it will be the same 1:55:15.440 --> 1:55:18.360 states and a lot of the same institutions organizations that 1:55:18.360 --> 1:55:21.520 were there as a kid. But people who were, you know, 1:55:21.600 --> 1:55:24.400 looking at it from a perspective today might consider post 1:55:24.400 --> 1:55:27.600 capitalist because that's generally how change happens. You know, yeah, 1:55:27.920 --> 1:55:31.280 about like how democracy increased in in the UK, but 1:55:31.320 --> 1:55:33.120 they still had like a king. It's like when did 1:55:33.160 --> 1:55:35.960 they They're not they never really reached post monarchy. But 1:55:35.960 --> 1:55:38.080 it's also not the same system that they were run 1:55:38.080 --> 1:55:40.920 by in like fourteen hundred. You know, it's wildly different 1:55:40.960 --> 1:55:43.880 and there's much more representation for more people, but it 1:55:44.040 --> 1:55:47.000 it's that is not you know that there's also you 1:55:47.040 --> 1:55:49.920 also have your your Soviet unions and your your killing 1:55:49.920 --> 1:55:54.600 of czars, and which which is fine, and and and 1:55:54.600 --> 1:55:59.240 and and I like killing tsars. But change happens in 1:55:59.320 --> 1:56:03.200 a variety of ways, and change can be revolutionary in 1:56:03.240 --> 1:56:08.480 its effect without being a clear break. Yeah, I'm trying 1:56:08.520 --> 1:56:11.160 to think of like how we're talking about like the 1:56:11.280 --> 1:56:14.320 capitalist world thriving, Like I don't I don't view eight 1:56:14.320 --> 1:56:18.400 billion people thriving right now even with that like a 1:56:18.400 --> 1:56:20.560 lot of a lot, Like it's not like it's that's 1:56:20.600 --> 1:56:24.200 not what's happening right now, And we need to change 1:56:24.240 --> 1:56:31.080 the way like distribution of resources works drastically, and doing 1:56:31.120 --> 1:56:34.440 that will make everyone's lives a whole lot better, and 1:56:34.480 --> 1:56:37.080 it will also maybe limit some of the endless growth. 1:56:37.080 --> 1:56:41.160 And those things aren't opposites, um, And I just I 1:56:41.280 --> 1:56:44.360 don't know how like we can say those things, but 1:56:44.520 --> 1:56:49.920 the path to getting there is certainly a lot more ambiguous. Yeah, 1:56:49.960 --> 1:56:51.880 And I think that that's I think one of the 1:56:51.880 --> 1:56:55.440 ways in which the Left goes wrong often is kind 1:56:55.480 --> 1:56:59.040 of looking at things that have been tried before and 1:56:59.040 --> 1:57:02.440 and didn't didn't didn't do the trick, and saying like 1:57:02.440 --> 1:57:05.360 what we need is we need us another Bolshevik Revolution. 1:57:05.440 --> 1:57:08.040 You know, we need to bring us back that, you know, 1:57:08.160 --> 1:57:10.360 hammer and sickle, And it's like, well, you know, they 1:57:10.640 --> 1:57:14.520 gave it the old College try and they did not win. UM. 1:57:14.600 --> 1:57:17.840 And you can be angry at that or whatever, or 1:57:17.880 --> 1:57:19.680 you can be like, okay, it's the same and hey, 1:57:19.880 --> 1:57:22.120 it's it's every tendency. I can look at the fucking 1:57:22.160 --> 1:57:24.280 Maknos and be like, well, that was based as hell, 1:57:24.320 --> 1:57:26.680 and you know what, it didn't do the fucking trick. UM. 1:57:26.800 --> 1:57:29.800 So I think there's a degree of humility that needs 1:57:29.840 --> 1:57:33.680 to be had in terms of like what actual, what 1:57:33.840 --> 1:57:37.800 actual change that makes a more livable world will look 1:57:37.840 --> 1:57:39.240 like in the way in which That's one of the 1:57:39.280 --> 1:57:42.160 reasons I did enjoy Kim Stanley Robinson's Ministry of the 1:57:42.200 --> 1:57:44.800 Future is a lot of it is about the end 1:57:44.800 --> 1:57:49.760 of capitalism in a way that is not UM. It's 1:57:49.920 --> 1:57:52.960 it's it. It doesn't look like a lot of ends 1:57:52.960 --> 1:57:56.000 of capitalism have have kind of been posited by UM. 1:57:56.000 --> 1:58:00.680 There's a lot of uh strong arming bankers into forcing 1:58:00.920 --> 1:58:04.720 high level economic changes that put into like really extractive 1:58:04.800 --> 1:58:08.320 systems and whatnot. UM, And it's it's it's interesting. It 1:58:08.360 --> 1:58:11.800 was kind of an imagining of how the transition could 1:58:11.840 --> 1:58:15.520 begin UM in a way that that isn't commonly talked 1:58:15.520 --> 1:58:17.800 about UM, at least on the left. And I thought 1:58:17.800 --> 1:58:20.080 it was valuable for that, and I think people should 1:58:20.120 --> 1:58:24.280 be I think there's I think that um UM people 1:58:24.800 --> 1:58:27.640 can be more creative in how they envisioned the way 1:58:27.680 --> 1:58:30.360 that might look than they often are. And I feel 1:58:30.360 --> 1:58:32.360 like this question actually relates to like stuff like dual 1:58:32.360 --> 1:58:36.560 power really well, because our our goal as individuals is 1:58:36.560 --> 1:58:39.600 not feeding eight billion people. Our goal is to get 1:58:39.600 --> 1:58:42.040 a garden enough so that we can feed most of 1:58:42.080 --> 1:58:45.280 our friends off of stuff that we grew for like 1:58:45.440 --> 1:58:48.520 the summer, right, Like that's like that's what our goal 1:58:48.640 --> 1:58:52.200 is to is to build it from that way. Instead 1:58:52.200 --> 1:58:56.120 of saying, like, how how can we feed New York 1:58:56.160 --> 1:58:59.440 in a climate sustainable way? That is a very different 1:58:59.520 --> 1:59:02.400 question them being like if we want to integrate solar 1:59:02.440 --> 1:59:06.000 punk and like eco sustainability stuff into our lives now, 1:59:06.400 --> 1:59:08.240 because if we don't do it, no one really else 1:59:08.360 --> 1:59:11.080 is really going to. Let's start with the people you 1:59:11.120 --> 1:59:13.200 actually already have connections with, because a lot of it 1:59:13.280 --> 1:59:17.240 is is about building like horizontal connections as opposed to 1:59:17.400 --> 1:59:20.520 defaulting to this top down system of who has what, 1:59:20.680 --> 1:59:24.160 who needs what, and this is when we when we venture, 1:59:24.240 --> 1:59:26.560 when we dare to venture into the subreddit. One of 1:59:26.560 --> 1:59:29.360 the things I see people like critiquing a lot is like, well, 1:59:29.400 --> 1:59:32.120 you're you know, they keep talking about like all of 1:59:32.160 --> 1:59:35.200 these little like home gardening and like canning and and 1:59:35.200 --> 1:59:37.640 and kind of these community level solutions, But that's not 1:59:37.640 --> 1:59:40.880 going to deal with like this massive systemic problem. It's like, 1:59:41.080 --> 1:59:44.520 it's not all about that. There's there's One of the 1:59:44.640 --> 1:59:47.840 methods in which you can ensure change is keeping you 1:59:47.960 --> 1:59:51.600 and yours alive and committed on change. And part of 1:59:51.640 --> 1:59:56.520 that is ex hyper local solutions UM that also involve 1:59:56.560 --> 1:59:59.360 increasing your own idea of your autonomy and your own 1:59:59.360 --> 2:00:02.200 and your own und standing of things like the food cycle, 2:00:02.240 --> 2:00:04.800 which have an impact on what you like, vote for 2:00:04.920 --> 2:00:08.880 and what you support pushing for on like a societal level, 2:00:09.120 --> 2:00:11.160 the things that you come to better understand in your 2:00:11.240 --> 2:00:14.240 daily life and and so getting involved in all of 2:00:14.280 --> 2:00:17.960 these things guerilla gardening and whatnot UM has an impact 2:00:17.960 --> 2:00:20.320 on that. All I do think people underestimate, like the 2:00:20.440 --> 2:00:23.040 largest crop by acreage in the United States by a 2:00:23.080 --> 2:00:26.200 long shot, is fucking lawns and replacing lawns with either 2:00:26.280 --> 2:00:30.080 zero escaping just to increase carbon capture and reduce water usage, 2:00:30.480 --> 2:00:33.280 or with some sort of food growth. Doing a mix 2:00:33.280 --> 2:00:35.880 of that for the vast majority of like lawn area 2:00:35.920 --> 2:00:38.760 in the United States actually would be a significant thing 2:00:38.800 --> 2:00:42.200 on a global level. Recommend everyone the Book of Food 2:00:42.280 --> 2:00:46.360 not lawns. Yeah, there's it's that that would not be 2:00:46.440 --> 2:00:48.960 a meaningless change, and it is something that people can 2:00:49.000 --> 2:00:51.400 have an impact on because it is the kind of 2:00:51.440 --> 2:00:54.200 thing that if we're it were to get popular enough, 2:00:54.240 --> 2:00:56.680 there's a Pokemon point, you know where it where it 2:00:56.760 --> 2:01:00.080 becomes a trend um and and like Pokemon, if it 2:01:00.120 --> 2:01:03.480 gets popular enough, it will never die. That's what we 2:01:03.560 --> 2:01:05.640 say about all of our stuff on our show. If 2:01:05.640 --> 2:01:09.760 it if it becomes like Pokemon or or n f 2:01:09.840 --> 2:01:11.840 T point, if that's but I don't think in FT 2:01:12.960 --> 2:01:15.240 Pokemon is so much better than any n f T. 2:01:15.520 --> 2:01:18.960 Although the day that this drops, that will probably announce 2:01:18.960 --> 2:01:20.840 the Pokemon n f T game, which will be the 2:01:20.880 --> 2:01:25.080 final coffin in the biosphere. All of all of all 2:01:25.120 --> 2:01:27.880 of my pokemons are gone. I've been had all my 2:01:28.000 --> 2:01:35.200 apes gone. That was my favorite post of the holiday season. Oh, Robert, 2:01:35.240 --> 2:01:37.360 do you want to give an update on After the Revolution? 2:01:37.400 --> 2:01:40.800 That was asked a couple of times. Yeah. See, I'm 2:01:41.120 --> 2:01:46.400 three chapters in um so it'll be done, hopefully at 2:01:46.400 --> 2:01:49.400 some point this year. Garrison. Garrison has a question on that. 2:01:49.440 --> 2:01:53.920 Are you going to pay someone else to code the book? Uh? No, no, no, no, 2:01:54.160 --> 2:01:58.360 we pay you, Garrison. I don't want to code this. Yeah, 2:01:58.400 --> 2:02:01.280 well I have to work on the Daily Show. Now 2:02:01.320 --> 2:02:03.800 I cannot code this game. We all have things to 2:02:03.800 --> 2:02:09.040 do we don't want to do. Oh gosh, alright, I'm 2:02:09.120 --> 2:02:13.320 so sorry, Garrison, so sorry. Well have you code some 2:02:13.360 --> 2:02:19.000 other people's books just to get stuff? No more coding? 2:02:19.080 --> 2:02:22.240 I will not allow it. There are there there are 2:02:22.280 --> 2:02:24.160 experts who can do this a lot prettier than I 2:02:24.200 --> 2:02:26.960 can with my I think, Garrison, I consider you an 2:02:26.960 --> 2:02:31.720 expert now, Oh no, in in in E pub coding. 2:02:31.760 --> 2:02:37.080 I'll put that on my resume. Well, I think that 2:02:37.200 --> 2:02:40.040 does it for us today, folks. If you want to 2:02:40.080 --> 2:02:42.120 follow us on social media so you can watch us 2:02:42.160 --> 2:02:45.720 promote our own shows again, you can go to Cool's 2:02:45.720 --> 2:02:48.960 own media on Twitter, Instagram and happen here pod And 2:02:49.040 --> 2:02:51.760 wouldn't that be lovely? We get so much more connections 2:02:51.760 --> 2:02:55.760 through online. That's wow, that really do I love online? Yeah, 2:02:55.880 --> 2:02:59.520 and uh we're doing it behind the Bastards live stream 2:02:59.640 --> 2:03:03.960 digital show with prop On. That doesn't sound right, doesn't 2:03:04.320 --> 2:03:07.520 This bit is so not funny everything time. It's not 2:03:07.560 --> 2:03:09.800 a bit. I'm just dreading it. I'm dreading it to 2:03:10.000 --> 2:03:17.640 but we're doing it. February moment House dot com tickets 2:03:17.640 --> 2:03:21.440 still available. They are a moment House. Come slash behind them, 2:03:21.720 --> 2:03:28.040 scalpel them to the fans. I get in there. Scarcity 2:03:28.120 --> 2:03:33.360 is the key. Well do that if you have disposable 2:03:33.360 --> 2:03:37.600 income and want to watch Roberts talk. Yeah, yeah, more 2:03:37.600 --> 2:03:42.320 than we already do. I guarantee you it'll be worth it. Well, 2:03:42.360 --> 2:03:44.520 that's the episode. Thank you for listening. I hope everyone 2:03:44.600 --> 2:03:50.800 has uh better that would be nice. And I hope 2:03:50.840 --> 2:03:54.440 everyone has an identical two down to the day and 2:03:54.560 --> 2:03:57.160 until in May you realize that you're actually in like 2:03:57.200 --> 2:04:00.880 a groundhog Day style loop. Um, and then you would 2:04:00.920 --> 2:04:04.360 achieve nirvana if I'm remembering how the movie Groundhog Day 2:04:04.560 --> 2:04:10.120 went properly. Sure, Uh yeah, that sounds that sounds great. 2:04:10.320 --> 2:04:14.680 Have a good year, make some changes, make connections with 2:04:14.720 --> 2:04:17.560 people around you. There there, you just just define them. 2:04:17.680 --> 2:04:20.280 Talk to people who look like they have cool politics 2:04:20.960 --> 2:04:23.840 or or start doing cool things. You know, and started 2:04:23.880 --> 2:04:26.240 started start doing cool things. Yeah, we should address one 2:04:26.320 --> 2:04:28.560 last thing, which is the question people ask that gets 2:04:28.600 --> 2:04:32.120 asked a lot, but we probably can't address enough, which 2:04:32.160 --> 2:04:34.800 is like, there's no one around me doing any of 2:04:34.800 --> 2:04:37.440 this mutual aid stuff. There's nobody around me engaging any 2:04:37.480 --> 2:04:38.560 of the stuff that I want to get How do 2:04:38.640 --> 2:04:40.960 how do I get organized and get involved? Number one, 2:04:41.240 --> 2:04:43.120 there are people around you doing that kind of ship. 2:04:43.160 --> 2:04:45.160 It may just be hard to find because of where 2:04:45.200 --> 2:04:49.600 you are. UM. But if you start doing ship, if 2:04:49.640 --> 2:04:52.840 you like, the simplest thing I can say is try 2:04:52.880 --> 2:04:56.920 and figure out where there's a need and start filling it. UM. 2:04:56.960 --> 2:05:00.000 Often you will start meeting other people who are engage 2:05:00.000 --> 2:05:03.240 aged in adjacent projects or even the same thing. UM. 2:05:03.280 --> 2:05:05.840 And that's a way to get into it if you 2:05:05.880 --> 2:05:10.840 are trying to start. If you actually get so far 2:05:10.920 --> 2:05:13.360 as to start serving a need in your area in 2:05:13.400 --> 2:05:17.080 a mutual aid capacity UM and trying to start organizing 2:05:17.080 --> 2:05:19.600 and whatnot, and you're doing shit, feel free to hit 2:05:19.680 --> 2:05:22.520 us up on email reach out. We are happy to signal, 2:05:22.560 --> 2:05:26.920 boost and signpost people who are have actually started doing shit. Um. 2:05:26.960 --> 2:05:29.560 It's one of those things. Please don't come to I 2:05:29.560 --> 2:05:31.840 think this might be a cool idea, but if you 2:05:31.880 --> 2:05:35.160 start doing shit, um, and you can provide some evidence 2:05:35.200 --> 2:05:37.920 that you're you're doing something in your community that's not 2:05:37.960 --> 2:05:40.640 currently being done that is a mutual aid type thing, 2:05:40.760 --> 2:05:43.280 or even even a charitable type thing if it's if 2:05:43.320 --> 2:05:46.520 you're doing it, we will try to help signal boost 2:05:46.600 --> 2:05:50.120 and and can be very useful in that capacity. So 2:05:50.120 --> 2:05:55.520 so it's not easy necessarily, especially depending on where you live, 2:05:55.600 --> 2:05:59.560 but like you do, it's always possible to find a 2:05:59.600 --> 2:06:03.520 need and fill it, you know. Yeah, I found that 2:06:03.840 --> 2:06:08.120 uh uh definitely was easier before the pandemic. But a 2:06:08.640 --> 2:06:10.880 way that I've met people that are a little bit 2:06:10.920 --> 2:06:13.840 more open minded to the same things that I'm open 2:06:13.880 --> 2:06:17.680 minded too. Was going to like local comedy shows or 2:06:18.120 --> 2:06:23.240 things that shows. I'm guessing like farmers markets, farmers you know, 2:06:23.440 --> 2:06:28.560 wherever kind of weird not not in the normal culture 2:06:28.600 --> 2:06:31.000 people will go to. You'll probably find someone there with 2:06:31.280 --> 2:06:36.360 radical politics, and that's problem all those types of like 2:06:36.360 --> 2:06:40.680 like you know, countercultural, subcultural spaces. You'll probably find someone 2:06:40.720 --> 2:06:43.720 there who's wearing a back patch that is something like 2:06:43.840 --> 2:06:46.960 smashed or something. You know, so like just like you, 2:06:46.960 --> 2:06:49.280 you have to you know you're not going to find 2:06:49.320 --> 2:06:51.600 them by staying at your in your house and scrolling 2:06:51.600 --> 2:06:53.440 on Twitter. I mean they probably not. You have to 2:06:53.520 --> 2:06:56.160 kind of go into the real world, um as scary 2:06:56.200 --> 2:06:59.920 as the meat space. Maybe yeah. And I would say 2:07:00.320 --> 2:07:02.240 another thing to keep in mind if you are in 2:07:02.360 --> 2:07:04.960 kind of a more conservative area, and even if you 2:07:04.960 --> 2:07:08.000 do identify as an anarchist, you don't have to frame 2:07:08.040 --> 2:07:10.680 it that way. You can always call yourself a libertarian 2:07:10.760 --> 2:07:13.480 municipal list and none of the people who might be 2:07:13.560 --> 2:07:17.200 offended by anarchist will listen past libertarian and they'll decide 2:07:17.240 --> 2:07:21.040 you're fine. And that's a great way to to start 2:07:21.080 --> 2:07:26.640 that ironic it means the same thing more or less. 2:07:26.680 --> 2:07:28.720 I mean, there's other kinds of anarchists who are but 2:07:28.800 --> 2:07:31.840 like most people who say they're anarchists, if you were 2:07:31.880 --> 2:07:36.280 to call them libertarian municipalists would be like, all right, whatever, yeah, 2:07:36.360 --> 2:07:39.280 not me, don't call me that, but call call Chris 2:07:39.320 --> 2:07:44.680 that constantly. That's that's that's, that's, that's it. We'll be 2:07:44.720 --> 2:07:49.839 back tomorrow or maybe not, I don't know, probably tomorrow, 2:07:49.880 --> 2:07:53.640 maybe that's what I'm saying, and it's been said a 2:07:54.160 --> 2:08:04.680 say so. I called the Union Hall, as its about 2:08:04.720 --> 2:08:07.440 of life and death. I thank these people of planning 2:08:07.480 --> 2:08:11.920 to kill Dr King. On April fourth night, doctor Martin 2:08:12.000 --> 2:08:14.600 Luther King was shot and killed in Memphis. A petty 2:08:14.640 --> 2:08:18.160 criminal named James Earl Ray was arrested. He pled guilty 2:08:18.200 --> 2:08:20.160 to the crime and spent the rest of his life 2:08:20.160 --> 2:08:25.880 in prison. Case closed right, James L. Ray was upon 2:08:26.600 --> 2:08:30.400 for the official story. The authorities would parade all we 2:08:30.520 --> 2:08:34.040 found a gun that James L. Ray bought in Birmingham 2:08:34.040 --> 2:08:37.360 that killed Dr King, Except it wasn't the gun that 2:08:37.440 --> 2:08:40.800 killed Dr King. One of the problems that came out 2:08:40.880 --> 2:08:44.320 when I got the Ray case was that some of 2:08:44.360 --> 2:08:47.440 the evidence, as far as I was concerned, did not 2:08:47.680 --> 2:08:52.000 match the circumstances. This is the MLK tapes. The first 2:08:52.040 --> 2:08:55.520 episodes are available now. Listen on the I Heart Radio app, 2:08:55.640 --> 2:09:02.839 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Executive producer 2:09:02.920 --> 2:09:06.920 Harris Hilton brings back the hit podcast How Men Think, 2:09:07.240 --> 2:09:10.520 And that's good news for anyone that is confused by men, 2:09:10.920 --> 2:09:14.320 which is basically everyone. Get an inside look at what 2:09:14.400 --> 2:09:17.400 goes on in the mind of men from the men themselves. 2:09:17.680 --> 2:09:21.240 It's real talk, straight from the source. How Men Think 2:09:21.280 --> 2:09:23.920 podcast is exactly what we need to figure them out. 2:09:24.200 --> 2:09:27.120 It's going to be fun and formative and probably a 2:09:27.160 --> 2:09:30.520 bit scary at times because we're literally going inside the 2:09:30.600 --> 2:09:33.240 minds of men. As much as we like to think 2:09:33.360 --> 2:09:37.600 all men are the same, they're actually very different. Each week, 2:09:37.680 --> 2:09:41.280 a celebrity guest host provides honest advice in his area 2:09:41.360 --> 2:09:44.200 of expertise. When I agreed to do this reboot, I 2:09:44.240 --> 2:09:48.560 had a few conditions. No sugarcoating, no mind games, and 2:09:48.680 --> 2:09:52.919 absolutely no man splaining. Men are hard enough to understand 2:09:52.960 --> 2:09:55.960 without the mind games. Listen to How Men Think on 2:09:56.040 --> 2:09:59.240 the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you 2:09:59.280 --> 2:10:03.320 get your podcast us. I'm Colleen with joined me the 2:10:03.360 --> 2:10:06.120 host of Eating Wall Broke podcast while I eat a 2:10:06.200 --> 2:10:10.600 meal created by self made entrepreneurs, influencers, and celebrities over 2:10:10.600 --> 2:10:12.880 a meal they once ate when they were broke. Today 2:10:12.920 --> 2:10:15.960 I have the lovely AJ Crimson, the official Princess of 2:10:16.080 --> 2:10:20.400 comfin Asia, Kidding and Asia. This is the professor. We're 2:10:20.440 --> 2:10:22.880 here on Eating Wall Broke, and today I'm gonna break 2:10:22.960 --> 2:10:25.600 down my meal that got me through a time when 2:10:25.600 --> 2:10:28.200 I was broken. Listen to Eating Wall Broke on the 2:10:28.240 --> 2:10:31.280 I Heart Radio app, on Apple podcast or wherever you 2:10:31.320 --> 2:10:40.280 get your podcasts. This is gonna be ship, This is 2:10:40.280 --> 2:10:42.920 gonna suck, This is gonna be trash because no one 2:10:42.920 --> 2:10:45.200 knows what's gonna happen. I have not actually come up 2:10:45.200 --> 2:10:49.880 with a prediction yet. I don't know this one. Have 2:10:49.960 --> 2:10:53.560 I hoped one that I came up with before the show? 2:10:53.400 --> 2:10:57.200 Have we have we opened this? Yeah, we've already started. 2:10:57.920 --> 2:11:00.800 Um we were supposed to. This is it can happen here? 2:11:00.840 --> 2:11:04.480 Everybody podcast things falling apart? How to maybe make them 2:11:04.480 --> 2:11:08.280 fall apart less? Um. Sophie pitched the great idea of 2:11:08.280 --> 2:11:11.680 why don't we do an episode that is our predictions? 2:11:11.920 --> 2:11:14.920 It's really not my idea When people ask so this 2:11:16.680 --> 2:11:22.000 that she's the Sophie's idea alone. It's sprang fully formed 2:11:22.120 --> 2:11:24.879 from the sight of her head, like Athena from Zeus's 2:11:24.920 --> 2:11:27.520 skull um. And we all agreed it was a good 2:11:27.520 --> 2:11:30.080 idea for an episode. And then I did not come 2:11:30.160 --> 2:11:32.480 up with the prediction. Did you get You know, that's 2:11:32.680 --> 2:11:34.520 a bit of time thinking about not a second, not 2:11:34.600 --> 2:11:37.520 even a moment. Absolutely love the Athena Zeus reference. That's 2:11:37.560 --> 2:11:40.400 how I tell people I got Anderson. Yeah. Well, my 2:11:40.480 --> 2:11:42.440 prediction for the year is that I'm going to keep 2:11:42.480 --> 2:11:45.280 making references to Athena whenever I do something that pisses 2:11:45.320 --> 2:11:47.760 Sophie off so that she's less angry, I will it 2:11:47.800 --> 2:11:56.920 will absolutely work. Yeah, that's my prediction for uh okay, okay, okay. Wait, 2:11:57.160 --> 2:12:00.560 before we go into the to the to the big, 2:12:00.600 --> 2:12:05.560 bigger thing, I want everybody to give one word prediction 2:12:06.200 --> 2:12:10.160 for how you would describe this coming here. One word 2:12:10.160 --> 2:12:20.920 prediction boring and f t M. I was just gonna 2:12:20.960 --> 2:12:25.480 say fucked, But I don't think because it's going to 2:12:25.600 --> 2:12:28.000 be hot too, I don't think it's going to be 2:12:28.000 --> 2:12:32.720 that fucked. Actually, I think I was gonna say mediocre. Yeah, 2:12:32.720 --> 2:12:39.680 I'm I'm foreseeing a lot of blandness, a lot of blandness. 2:12:40.160 --> 2:12:44.000 My Here, here's a prediction I'll make. I think that 2:12:45.080 --> 2:12:47.040 one of the things that we were seeing last year, 2:12:47.120 --> 2:12:49.760 especially in the streets, with like the far right being 2:12:49.840 --> 2:12:54.760 so much more uh active um than the left in 2:12:54.800 --> 2:12:56.480 a lot of places and in a lot of ways, 2:12:56.680 --> 2:13:00.960 is um really tire A lot of people on the 2:13:01.040 --> 2:13:03.080 left out a lot of organizers, a lot of street 2:13:03.160 --> 2:13:05.960 level people. Um, not just like oh I'm tired, but 2:13:06.080 --> 2:13:10.000 like I was injured, Um, I'm fighting charges. Uh. My 2:13:10.600 --> 2:13:13.720 funds were depleted. I had to I couldn't keep going 2:13:13.720 --> 2:13:15.360 out because I have a family and I had to 2:13:15.400 --> 2:13:18.480 deal with that sort of ship. Um And I think 2:13:18.840 --> 2:13:21.320 I don't think that energy is back yet, but it 2:13:21.360 --> 2:13:24.000 always ebbs and flows, and it does on both sides 2:13:24.040 --> 2:13:26.080 because at the end of the day, whether you're a 2:13:26.120 --> 2:13:29.800 fascist or a progressive, people have X amount of energy, 2:13:29.960 --> 2:13:34.200 you know. Um, and I think we are. I believe 2:13:34.200 --> 2:13:37.120 we are kind of at the beginning process of folks 2:13:37.120 --> 2:13:39.560 on the left starting to recover some of that energy. 2:13:40.160 --> 2:13:42.760 Um And I I think that that is a process 2:13:42.800 --> 2:13:46.600 we're going to see building throughout the year. Um. I 2:13:46.640 --> 2:13:48.920 don't think that. Yeah, yeah, and it will be a 2:13:49.000 --> 2:13:52.920 multi year process. And I'm I'm kind of hoping folks 2:13:52.920 --> 2:13:55.960 are ready to throw down again. But but we'll see, 2:13:56.000 --> 2:13:59.760 like where that goes. We might have like a few 2:14:00.200 --> 2:14:03.560 days of people throwing down in the streets for some reason, 2:14:03.760 --> 2:14:08.360 like something bad may happen, like like late summer. I 2:14:08.360 --> 2:14:11.000 I can I can definitely see like a few days 2:14:11.000 --> 2:14:12.920 in July or au gust where it's like, oh, was 2:14:13.000 --> 2:14:14.760 the thing starting again? And it goes on for a 2:14:14.760 --> 2:14:16.600 bit and then it kind of peters out. I kind 2:14:16.600 --> 2:14:20.240 of I definitely see that being a decent possibility, um, 2:14:20.280 --> 2:14:22.280 because yeah, I think there will be more energy for 2:14:22.360 --> 2:14:27.560 that this year and more mental like like like ability 2:14:27.600 --> 2:14:31.560 to to do to do that this year than yeah. 2:14:31.960 --> 2:14:35.360 But overall, I don't see anything super eventful, and I 2:14:35.360 --> 2:14:37.880 hopefully this doesn't like drink anything and then we get no. 2:14:38.000 --> 2:14:42.360 I mean, my my big event is that. And I 2:14:42.440 --> 2:14:44.560 will explain what this is based on in a bit. 2:14:45.000 --> 2:14:48.120 I think we are going to see a significant sized 2:14:48.200 --> 2:14:53.400 urban metropolitan area be rendered uninhabitable either permanently or for 2:14:53.440 --> 2:14:56.040 a significant period of time in the United States due 2:14:56.080 --> 2:14:57.880 to climate change. And part of what this is based 2:14:57.920 --> 2:15:01.280 on is the December wild fires that just destroyed a 2:15:01.360 --> 2:15:04.680 significant chunk of Boulder, Colorado. Right, I'm not talking about 2:15:04.720 --> 2:15:06.680 like New York City gets swallowed by the waves, but 2:15:06.720 --> 2:15:09.600 like a place where there's a couple hundred thousand people living, 2:15:09.960 --> 2:15:12.800 they're not able to be for either ever or an 2:15:12.800 --> 2:15:17.680 extended period of time because a climate based disaster hits. Um, 2:15:17.680 --> 2:15:20.120 maybe it'll be a heat dome type thing. Maybe it'll 2:15:20.120 --> 2:15:22.760 be like a wet bulb event. Maybe it'll be um 2:15:23.040 --> 2:15:26.920 fires obviously always possible, hurricane tornado. You know, we we 2:15:27.000 --> 2:15:28.960 saw enough just in the last couple of months in 2:15:29.040 --> 2:15:31.160 terms of those like record hurricanes that killed like a 2:15:31.200 --> 2:15:34.600 hundred people in um in the South, or the fires 2:15:34.600 --> 2:15:39.360 sweeping Boulder right now and again fucking December. Um. But 2:15:39.360 --> 2:15:41.280 but I do think there's a pretty good chance we 2:15:41.320 --> 2:15:46.800 see something like that this year. I think my big 2:15:46.840 --> 2:15:49.360 one is that, I mean, okay, so the the the 2:15:49.680 --> 2:15:51.920 obvious freebe is that we're going to cross a million 2:15:51.920 --> 2:15:54.360 COVID deaths or like the the the official count. We 2:15:54.520 --> 2:15:58.160 were like, we we've had ways social count. That's that's 2:15:58.200 --> 2:16:01.560 the freebe. The not freebee is like it's not even 2:16:01.600 --> 2:16:04.920 a prediction. If that's that's that's I think it's going 2:16:04.960 --> 2:16:07.960 to be warm in the summer time, yeah, like you know, 2:16:08.080 --> 2:16:10.720 and warm in the summertime is probably like a bigger 2:16:10.760 --> 2:16:14.560 gamble at this point then, yeah, but very very warm. 2:16:14.560 --> 2:16:18.000 But yeah. But but but I think the real thing 2:16:18.080 --> 2:16:20.120 is that like there there is never going to be 2:16:20.160 --> 2:16:24.000 never locked down the U S never like you of 2:16:24.040 --> 2:16:26.600 the United States could die and there would be no 2:16:26.680 --> 2:16:30.280 lockdown like and this is you know, and I think 2:16:30.280 --> 2:16:33.520 this this is the result of I don't know, I 2:16:33.600 --> 2:16:36.119 wonder what you do do this. My thesis for what 2:16:36.160 --> 2:16:40.120 was going on was that, like I actually think the 2:16:40.320 --> 2:16:44.560 like the like liberate Wisconsin stuff, I think that actually worked. 2:16:45.480 --> 2:16:48.880 Like thosebery were all those giant like like wnt of 2:16:48.920 --> 2:16:51.600 people shu up with guns to captain Absolutely it worked. Yeah, yeah, 2:16:51.640 --> 2:16:53.640 it worked. And it was like, but but they did 2:16:53.640 --> 2:16:56.960 they did usually works. It's a very effective way to 2:16:57.000 --> 2:16:59.680 get things done well. But I think there's an important 2:16:59.720 --> 2:17:02.920 lesson though, which is that, like, so the state will 2:17:03.000 --> 2:17:06.000 never like very very rarely will the state ever like 2:17:07.080 --> 2:17:11.520 directly like they they won't immediately back down, right. What 2:17:11.560 --> 2:17:14.400 they'll do is like they'll make an enormous show about 2:17:14.400 --> 2:17:16.000 how they didn't grant any concessions, and then they will 2:17:16.000 --> 2:17:17.760 grant concessions. Like you know, this is the thing with 2:17:17.760 --> 2:17:19.440 the riots rights, Like Okay, people are talking about why 2:17:19.480 --> 2:17:21.160 do we not there's not gonna any more stimulus checks, right, 2:17:21.160 --> 2:17:22.520 And the reason there's not gonna be more similar checks 2:17:22.520 --> 2:17:26.440 because nobody's rioting and you know, like what kind of 2:17:26.440 --> 2:17:30.879 stimulus checks you get if a couple of targets get redacted. Yeah, 2:17:30.959 --> 2:17:32.520 like you know, if if, if, if you burn down 2:17:32.560 --> 2:17:35.000 another police station, we will get more stimulus checks. It's 2:17:35.040 --> 2:17:36.320 just that you have to you know, there has to 2:17:36.360 --> 2:17:39.080 be another police station burned down. Right, But like this 2:17:39.120 --> 2:17:40.480 is and this is the this is the you know, 2:17:40.560 --> 2:17:42.640 the the right was extremely effective at this right and 2:17:42.680 --> 2:17:45.480 in a way that people just don't really talk about, 2:17:45.520 --> 2:17:47.760 which is that it is now politically impossible in the US, 2:17:47.840 --> 2:17:49.600 Like no, no one, no one will ever do an 2:17:49.600 --> 2:17:52.120 ever lockdown because people will show up with guns and 2:17:52.120 --> 2:17:53.960 they don't want to do that, and they've decided that 2:17:54.040 --> 2:17:57.039 just just just kill just kill a mill, like you know, 2:17:57.080 --> 2:17:59.600 we we've already killed the entire population of Seattle, like 2:18:00.000 --> 2:18:02.440 they're dead. Like we'll just keep killing more people, more people, 2:18:02.440 --> 2:18:05.520 and just never. I think people often are going I 2:18:05.520 --> 2:18:10.039 think people on the left attack the Biden's COVID response 2:18:10.080 --> 2:18:11.959 for a lot of the wrong things. Like the thing 2:18:12.000 --> 2:18:14.840 that I I would go after him for is like, yeah, 2:18:14.840 --> 2:18:17.280 we didn't he didn't just say here's a bunch of money, 2:18:18.080 --> 2:18:20.119 don't go to work, We're not going back to school, 2:18:20.320 --> 2:18:22.880 like stay at home. Here's a pile of cash, which 2:18:22.959 --> 2:18:26.119 might have worked. It was worth a shot but past that, 2:18:26.840 --> 2:18:29.200 a lot of this was beyond By the time he 2:18:29.280 --> 2:18:35.199 came into office, the the armed militant cultural movement against 2:18:35.240 --> 2:18:37.880 the idea of COVID precautions was so advanced that like 2:18:38.680 --> 2:18:42.000 what do you what what what more could have been 2:18:42.040 --> 2:18:44.879 realistically done other than trying to give people enough money 2:18:44.920 --> 2:18:46.800 again to actually stay home, which again is the thing 2:18:46.840 --> 2:18:48.959 I think it's most fair to attack him on, Like okay, 2:18:49.000 --> 2:18:52.800 I mean like ships beyond Biden in a lot, but 2:18:52.879 --> 2:18:55.600 like like I don't, like, okay, it was like, well, 2:18:55.600 --> 2:18:57.760 what could have been done? I don't know, like if 2:18:57.800 --> 2:18:59.640 you're looking from the perspection of the state, they could 2:18:59.640 --> 2:19:02.120 actually have deployed the intelligence services against them instead of 2:19:02.120 --> 2:19:05.039 doing like one dumb entrapment plot, right, Like well sure, 2:19:05.080 --> 2:19:08.119 but that's that's also that starts before Biden and by 2:19:08.160 --> 2:19:10.959 again by the time, I mean it's like you know, 2:19:11.040 --> 2:19:12.520 but like like yeah, I call their bluff, right have 2:19:12.560 --> 2:19:14.280 when people show up to the capital and then it's like, okay, 2:19:14.280 --> 2:19:16.240 here's the FBI like like that that that's a thing 2:19:16.320 --> 2:19:18.400 that like if if you're a liberal status, you could 2:19:18.520 --> 2:19:22.320 do and they just don't want to because like partially 2:19:22.360 --> 2:19:23.920 I don't want the conflict of partially because it would 2:19:23.959 --> 2:19:25.840 actually it would look like it would look really bad 2:19:25.879 --> 2:19:27.879 for them heading into the midterms. It would look so 2:19:27.879 --> 2:19:30.240 they're bad. And and also I think this is less 2:19:30.240 --> 2:19:33.200 The FBI is kind of much more centrist in terms 2:19:33.240 --> 2:19:35.760 of their politics as an agency. But like there were 2:19:35.800 --> 2:19:39.720 a lot of state Yeah, well, I mean the most 2:19:39.760 --> 2:19:41.480 federal and state, Like I don't know that they can 2:19:41.480 --> 2:19:45.720 rely on them, like they even even the FBI, it's like, yeah, 2:19:45.720 --> 2:19:48.720 they're using the proud ways informants like on against anarchists, 2:19:48.760 --> 2:19:51.440 Like yeah, so yeah, like they're not they're not. They're 2:19:51.440 --> 2:19:56.959 not like the I have an appreciation. What I will 2:19:56.959 --> 2:19:58.920 say is I have an appreciation for the fact that 2:19:59.000 --> 2:20:01.680 by the time Biden was in office, it may have 2:20:01.800 --> 2:20:04.240 been an unsolvable problem, which doesn't let him off the 2:20:04.280 --> 2:20:07.200 hook for things that were objectively bad decisions like not 2:20:07.320 --> 2:20:11.880 doing ship for stimulus, UM, like pushing to open the schools, 2:20:12.000 --> 2:20:13.959 like you know, a number of other things that he's done, 2:20:14.000 --> 2:20:16.480 but also like if he had done all of the 2:20:16.560 --> 2:20:19.039 right things, we still might be at exactly this death 2:20:19.080 --> 2:20:21.760 toll because there are cultural issues here that were very 2:20:21.760 --> 2:20:25.640 advanced by the time he took office. UM. And I 2:20:25.680 --> 2:20:28.199 do think like it's whatever. I'm not. I'm not saying 2:20:28.200 --> 2:20:29.920 this to let Biden off the hook or support the 2:20:29.959 --> 2:20:31.840 Democratic Party. I'm saying this because people need to have 2:20:31.840 --> 2:20:35.080 an accurate conception of the problem. Um. And the problem 2:20:35.120 --> 2:20:37.360 is so much deeper than what a technocrat could have 2:20:37.560 --> 2:20:46.880 handled by making smart policy. At break a break and 2:20:47.080 --> 2:20:52.280 we're back from out of space. Actual prediction, Republicans will 2:20:52.320 --> 2:20:58.200 win the Senate, Yeah, which seems pretty like. I think 2:20:58.240 --> 2:21:02.160 there's a decent chance Democrats can keep House. Um, but 2:21:02.400 --> 2:21:04.200 I'm pretty sure, and it's going to go back to 2:21:04.240 --> 2:21:06.640 the Republicans. I mean, they are damn near in control 2:21:06.720 --> 2:21:10.119 of the Senate as it is, but they did Yeah, 2:21:10.360 --> 2:21:14.039 but I I do believe that's gonna happen. Um. And 2:21:14.160 --> 2:21:16.640 let's see other which, yeah, it does does not seem 2:21:16.680 --> 2:21:20.120 that's not that far fetched of a thing. And I 2:21:20.120 --> 2:21:24.279 don't know, there'll be some other kind of tech factory 2:21:24.879 --> 2:21:30.520 the space between Elon Musk, Peter Teel Silicon Valley, there's 2:21:30.520 --> 2:21:34.519 gonna be I think there's gonna be some worsening development 2:21:34.959 --> 2:21:40.080 of like tech like technocratic stuff, possibly in like possibly 2:21:40.120 --> 2:21:43.320 with like the mask of trying to like fix climate 2:21:43.400 --> 2:21:45.880 change or something. But I think they'll be a decent 2:21:46.040 --> 2:21:50.240 growth of tech power, and possibly they're like um cooperation 2:21:50.600 --> 2:21:53.320 with the state or the state like fund giving more 2:21:53.760 --> 2:21:56.920 explicit like funding and permission to tech power to like 2:21:57.080 --> 2:22:00.560 do terraforming, or like some geongineering. Like there's gonna be 2:22:00.640 --> 2:22:03.520 something related to that sphere. That is, it's going to 2:22:03.560 --> 2:22:07.320 get a lot more visible. It is. My big tech 2:22:07.360 --> 2:22:09.720 prediction is that there is going to be a crime 2:22:09.760 --> 2:22:12.160 against humanity at some point this year, like on a 2:22:12.160 --> 2:22:14.600 massive scale, not like just a mass shooting, but like 2:22:14.640 --> 2:22:17.400 a state level crime against humanity. And we're going to 2:22:17.440 --> 2:22:19.840 find out that for the last like eight months, Facebook 2:22:19.879 --> 2:22:22.800 had been paying the perpetrators a significant amount of money 2:22:22.840 --> 2:22:25.280 as a result of like some ill thought out ad 2:22:25.320 --> 2:22:28.720 program that they had. Yeah, like we're going to we're 2:22:28.720 --> 2:22:32.000 going to leave to Facebook actively funding and ethnic cleansing, 2:22:32.680 --> 2:22:37.199 um because some somebody thought up some sort of affiliate 2:22:37.240 --> 2:22:40.520 program that was not well conceived. Um. That's my fun 2:22:40.560 --> 2:22:46.199 tech industry prediction. My fun tech industry prediction is that, uh, 2:22:46.280 --> 2:22:50.000 Jeff Bezos will increasingly become the most cringe eest man 2:22:50.040 --> 2:22:54.240 in the world. Yeah, it is very funny that the 2:22:54.240 --> 2:22:57.119 picture him on New Year's he's just wearing a Dan 2:22:57.200 --> 2:23:01.000 Flashes shirts. He's absolutely wearing a Dan Flashes shirt and 2:23:01.040 --> 2:23:04.600 that's incredibly fine. Robert, Robert, that shirt costs him three 2:23:04.680 --> 2:23:08.640 thousand dollars because the pattern is so called, it's very complicated, 2:23:08.720 --> 2:23:12.840 how much the lines criss cross. I I just I 2:23:12.879 --> 2:23:15.480 just don't like you insisting that it's not as much money. 2:23:15.520 --> 2:23:20.080 But despite its complicatedness, that that photo was my version 2:23:20.080 --> 2:23:28.160 of holiday Carne said to everyone I know, Um, yeah, 2:23:28.240 --> 2:23:29.760 I think I think we're going to see a lot 2:23:29.760 --> 2:23:32.560 more unions this year. Yeah, that does seem to be 2:23:32.760 --> 2:23:34.800 a positive trend that we're seeing is a lot more 2:23:34.879 --> 2:23:38.480 unionization and some significant successes for and and a lot 2:23:38.520 --> 2:23:43.680 more like like general acceptance of the concept of a union. 2:23:44.120 --> 2:23:46.920 Other prediction related to to tech industry stuff, I think 2:23:47.360 --> 2:23:52.240 one of the billionaire space ships things is going to 2:23:52.360 --> 2:23:57.880 have a disastrous launch. Positive prediction of spaceship is gonna 2:23:57.879 --> 2:23:59.520 blow up with people inside it as it tries to 2:23:59.520 --> 2:24:02.320 take off. That's that's my positive prediction. That it can 2:24:02.360 --> 2:24:05.320 take some people with it. Um, sorry to the people, 2:24:05.360 --> 2:24:07.920 sorry to the workers who are gonna be probably harmed 2:24:07.920 --> 2:24:10.080 at that, but it can take some people out. So 2:24:10.120 --> 2:24:15.279 it's gonna be funny. Um that is that's possibility. Also, Uh, 2:24:15.440 --> 2:24:18.520 there's gonna be a there's gonna be a disastrous effect. 2:24:18.879 --> 2:24:23.400 Uh around Austin is right, and that's where that's where 2:24:23.400 --> 2:24:24.960 a lot of the spacehip stuff is getting set up. 2:24:25.080 --> 2:24:27.720 There's no, no, no, it's that's just where the offices are. 2:24:27.800 --> 2:24:30.600 It's like Chica, It's like on the coast of text 2:24:33.240 --> 2:24:35.320 some some piece of a spaceship is gonna fly through 2:24:35.320 --> 2:24:38.720 someone's house. No one's gonna care about it. Um, there 2:24:38.720 --> 2:24:40.720 gets brought, gonna kill a family or something. No one's 2:24:40.720 --> 2:24:44.879 gonna care. Nothing's gonna happen that. Those are my more 2:24:45.040 --> 2:24:50.760 my tech industry predictions related to spaceship stuff. Yeah, um yeah. 2:24:50.840 --> 2:24:54.240 I also think on on a more. I don't know 2:24:54.280 --> 2:24:57.879 how the current civil war in Myanmar is going to 2:24:58.000 --> 2:25:03.320 shake out, but I think there's a chance that it 2:25:03.400 --> 2:25:08.000 becomes the first k place where there is a successful 2:25:08.160 --> 2:25:12.200 or at least partially successful revolutionary movement that is to 2:25:12.320 --> 2:25:17.200 a significant extent armed via three D printed weaponry. Um, 2:25:17.240 --> 2:25:19.560 they've all we've already seen a lot of that deployed 2:25:19.680 --> 2:25:25.960 by the rebels in Myanmar. Um. I'm interested in watching 2:25:26.000 --> 2:25:28.040 that because it's kind of the first time we've seen 2:25:28.040 --> 2:25:31.800 that technology used on a meaningful scale by people that 2:25:31.840 --> 2:25:36.080 aren't like organized crime. Um. And yeah, I think it's 2:25:36.080 --> 2:25:37.680 still too early to tell, like how much of an 2:25:37.680 --> 2:25:39.560 actual like whether or not it's just kind of a 2:25:39.600 --> 2:25:43.920 distraction from the more meaningful aspects of the struggle, or 2:25:44.000 --> 2:25:47.640 the more meaningful like kind of deployments of of weaponry 2:25:47.640 --> 2:25:49.360 and other tools in the struggle, or whether or not 2:25:49.360 --> 2:25:52.119 it will actually play a significant role in the armed struggle. 2:25:52.160 --> 2:25:55.040 But it's it's very much worth watching if you're somebody 2:25:55.040 --> 2:25:59.760 who pays attention to insurgent movements and what is increasingly 2:25:59.760 --> 2:26:06.480 possible as a result of new technology. I have another 2:26:06.560 --> 2:26:10.480 really bad prediction. J K. Rowling is going to release 2:26:10.480 --> 2:26:17.840 a book on gender or fundy YouTube channel, yeah something 2:26:18.680 --> 2:26:20.840 I think. I think there's a decent chance she has 2:26:20.840 --> 2:26:23.120 been writing a book of that gender and she's going 2:26:23.160 --> 2:26:25.959 to release in two I think that as an actual, 2:26:26.480 --> 2:26:31.040 actual series prediction, just go away and a whole bunch 2:26:31.120 --> 2:26:33.520 of liberal moms are gonna buy it for each other 2:26:33.560 --> 2:26:35.720 and they're gonna read it and it's gonna be bad. 2:26:36.360 --> 2:26:39.400 And that is that is my that's my that's my 2:26:39.480 --> 2:26:43.800 horrible prediction. She could be so beloved if she had 2:26:43.840 --> 2:26:47.320 limited her comments after publishing Harry Potter, if she repeatedly 2:26:47.400 --> 2:26:50.800 telling people that are constantly shifting their pants, if she 2:26:50.920 --> 2:26:54.480 just didn't use Twitter after anything at all, and she 2:26:54.520 --> 2:26:57.039 could have been a different person. It's it's the Dave 2:26:57.120 --> 2:26:59.440 Chappelle thing. Just stay off. We all we all would 2:26:59.440 --> 2:27:01.800 have loved you wherever if you just just gone off 2:27:01.840 --> 2:27:04.320 and counted your money and left us alone. Yeah, go 2:27:04.440 --> 2:27:08.280 be rich somewhere. It's fine to be done. It's fine 2:27:08.320 --> 2:27:10.920 to be done being famous and influential. You you had, 2:27:11.000 --> 2:27:13.200 you did great, You did great. You never needed to 2:27:13.200 --> 2:27:17.280 come back. And she, I don't she did. I'm not 2:27:17.280 --> 2:27:20.520 sure if she did great? She did? She did? She 2:27:20.800 --> 2:27:23.680 look again, this is all colored. But if she had 2:27:23.720 --> 2:27:26.120 never come back into the public eye, all it would 2:27:26.120 --> 2:27:27.600 have been as like you remember that lady who got 2:27:27.600 --> 2:27:30.400 like twelve year olds to read seven page books that 2:27:30.520 --> 2:27:33.560 one time, Like people would not be as critical of 2:27:33.600 --> 2:27:36.000 the actual content of the Harry Potter books if she 2:27:36.120 --> 2:27:42.400 just hadn't kept coming back and saying ship so that 2:27:42.840 --> 2:27:46.320 and and and and then like didn't stop and then 2:27:46.400 --> 2:27:50.920 did not stop and then was told bad really really bad, 2:27:51.120 --> 2:27:53.240 and then kept doing it and kept doing it, and 2:27:53.320 --> 2:27:57.120 kept doing it and kept doing it. You know what 2:27:57.240 --> 2:27:59.720 people should beat. Look, if you're if you're listening to 2:27:59.720 --> 2:28:02.560 this and you're a millionaire who was like hugely popular 2:28:02.600 --> 2:28:04.840 for some cultural reason in the late nineties and early 2:28:04.840 --> 2:28:10.840 two thousand's, think about Bill Waterson. Bill Waterson ends the 2:28:10.879 --> 2:28:14.480 most popular comic strip in the history of comics and 2:28:14.840 --> 2:28:17.680 spends the rest of his life and fucking Iowa painting 2:28:17.760 --> 2:28:21.400 landscapes and never talks to anybody with a platform again, 2:28:21.760 --> 2:28:25.440 And I everybody loves Bill Waterson. Like not a single 2:28:25.480 --> 2:28:29.000 person has a criticism of Bill Waterson. Um, just do that, 2:28:29.440 --> 2:28:31.800 Just do what he did. Just go paint landscapes in 2:28:31.800 --> 2:28:34.360 Iowa and don't talk to journalists or get on Twitter. 2:28:34.840 --> 2:28:38.440 It's fine. Does Bill Waterson believe regressive things about gender? 2:28:38.480 --> 2:28:42.080 Nobody knows because he doesn't say anything. I think another 2:28:42.200 --> 2:28:45.440 prediction that is actually decently possible. I think we will 2:28:45.840 --> 2:28:51.000 get more and more cities and or states to decriminalize 2:28:51.080 --> 2:28:56.400 hard drugs in in certain possession amounts. UM. I think 2:28:56.640 --> 2:29:00.680 there is a there's a number of bills going around California, UM, 2:29:00.720 --> 2:29:02.920 and a lot of other states and I believe that 2:29:02.920 --> 2:29:05.640 will be start to become more and more common, which 2:29:05.680 --> 2:29:08.279 will be great. It would be nice if they get legalized. 2:29:08.360 --> 2:29:11.320 But you know, get get get what you can for now. 2:29:11.959 --> 2:29:20.600 Um yeah, speaking of drugs, here's oil sponsored by heroin, 2:29:21.000 --> 2:29:24.720 by by big drug. Here we go, have fun, stay safe. 2:29:25.480 --> 2:29:27.600 We're back. And I just want to let everybody know 2:29:27.879 --> 2:29:32.920 that if if everything gets legalized, we will be sponsored 2:29:32.920 --> 2:29:35.800 by meth amphetamine so fucking quickly it will make your 2:29:35.840 --> 2:29:39.040 head spin. I will never turn down a drug sponsor, um, 2:29:39.080 --> 2:29:41.480 except for like super foods. We don't do super foods, 2:29:41.600 --> 2:29:44.800 we don't do brain pills, but heroin. I would advertise 2:29:44.840 --> 2:29:48.160 the ship out of heroin. I'm already ready to advertise 2:29:48.200 --> 2:29:52.480 hair the hair loss drugs we don't do, but heroin. 2:29:53.200 --> 2:30:00.480 H Hey, is life depressing? You know? Heroin? I hated 2:30:00.560 --> 2:30:03.800 that I helped that bit. Uh, Chris, you were you 2:30:03.840 --> 2:30:07.720 were saying something before break My My one serious prediction 2:30:07.959 --> 2:30:11.880 is I don't think we've I think we're we're gonna 2:30:11.879 --> 2:30:14.959 get one more big like Latin American uprising, and it 2:30:15.000 --> 2:30:17.320 will not be in Argentina. I have been eating ship 2:30:17.400 --> 2:30:20.320 for three goddamn years predicting it's gonna be Argentina. It's like, oh, 2:30:20.360 --> 2:30:22.680 they're getting an IMF bailout. Like it's never Argentina. It 2:30:22.680 --> 2:30:25.640 won't be Argentina. It will be somewhere else. But someone is, 2:30:25.720 --> 2:30:28.680 someone is going to spend like two months doing a 2:30:28.720 --> 2:30:32.520 bunch of stuff that's extremely cool outside of Argentina. I 2:30:32.879 --> 2:30:35.279 kind of think, um, I don't know, I'll be interested 2:30:35.280 --> 2:30:38.560 to see what happens in Brazil because um, it's hard 2:30:38.600 --> 2:30:41.920 to get a sense for the exact numbers, but there's 2:30:41.920 --> 2:30:44.800 potential there. There is potential there with what's happened in 2:30:44.800 --> 2:30:48.400 Bolivia and what's happened in Chile. There's there's momentum in 2:30:48.800 --> 2:30:53.520 its exciting broad area, like I mean, like the osis 2:30:54.000 --> 2:30:56.760 there's shoot, there's like enormous protest in Brazil like all 2:30:56.800 --> 2:30:59.080 the time. Yeah, sure, yeah, there's like massive. It just 2:30:59.120 --> 2:31:02.040 hasn't sort of like okay, like it hasn't turned into 2:31:02.360 --> 2:31:05.720 like everyone fighting the cops and like yeah, and maybe 2:31:05.760 --> 2:31:09.640 I don't know if it will because like I don't know. 2:31:09.720 --> 2:31:12.640 I mean, this is this is this is my vibes 2:31:12.720 --> 2:31:16.240 based interpretation of it. But it feels like the Workers 2:31:16.280 --> 2:31:19.440 Party has enough of a handle on the protests that 2:31:19.480 --> 2:31:23.200 they're not going to sort of like explode because the 2:31:23.200 --> 2:31:26.120 PT just wants to win its election and get out 2:31:26.160 --> 2:31:30.200 of Bilsonaro. Well yeah, and I mean the possibility of 2:31:30.200 --> 2:31:34.040 any kind of like actual revolutionary insurrection anything relies heavily 2:31:34.040 --> 2:31:38.440 on like that path not working for people, like they're 2:31:38.480 --> 2:31:40.160 not that they're not being that kind of safety. But well, 2:31:40.160 --> 2:31:42.520 I mean I say this, if they arrest Lula again, 2:31:42.879 --> 2:31:47.080 like yeah, I don't think Boson like will die in 2:31:47.080 --> 2:31:50.200 his own ship, Like yeah, that might happen even if 2:31:50.240 --> 2:31:52.640 his party stays in power. I mean that he was 2:31:52.760 --> 2:31:55.840 actively dying as we would record this episode, which is 2:31:55.959 --> 2:31:59.640 very funny. Um I got as a result of one 2:31:59.680 --> 2:32:03.119 of our ad campaigns, several or a picture frames uh 2:32:03.200 --> 2:32:05.760 this year, and right now we're loading one up. That's 2:32:05.800 --> 2:32:07.800 just pictures of sick bowls in yarrow to keep in 2:32:07.879 --> 2:32:10.280 my living room. So anytime I walk past, I can 2:32:10.320 --> 2:32:12.720 look at JayR. Bolton narrow and hacking up a lung 2:32:13.120 --> 2:32:18.360 or having ships sucked out of his nose from a tube. Um, 2:32:18.400 --> 2:32:20.520 I will say, oh, by my one more like very 2:32:20.560 --> 2:32:22.800 fast prediction about this is that Kissinger is gonna live. 2:32:22.879 --> 2:32:29.840 He's not gonna die. Chris I allowed myself to hope 2:32:29.840 --> 2:32:32.240 for one for about I allow myself to hope for 2:32:32.280 --> 2:32:35.360 about eight hours, and I think it's gonna live, but 2:32:35.600 --> 2:32:38.279 immediately wrong. I don't know. It would have been pretty 2:32:38.320 --> 2:32:41.240 cool if Betty White's last action had been some sort 2:32:41.280 --> 2:32:47.879 of anti takeout Kissinger. She becomes the most loved American 2:32:47.920 --> 2:32:50.320 and human history, like goes out just like jumping out 2:32:50.360 --> 2:32:55.680 of an airplane, Like she parachutes into Kissinger's house with 2:32:55.720 --> 2:33:03.160 a flansing knife. Of I'm gonna say, in Colorado, Oregon 2:33:03.320 --> 2:33:07.440 or Washington, we're going to get our first safe uh 2:33:07.760 --> 2:33:11.120 drug injections site opened. I know they've been very pretty good. 2:33:11.320 --> 2:33:14.760 They've been They've been very successful inside different parts of Canada, 2:33:14.800 --> 2:33:18.760 specifically Vancouver, BC. And I believe one of those three 2:33:18.760 --> 2:33:20.920 states is going to get the first one. Um, I 2:33:20.959 --> 2:33:23.080 hope it's all of them. You want to support some 2:33:23.120 --> 2:33:25.200 of those people up in Canada go to Heroin Martin 2:33:25.240 --> 2:33:30.080 by a shoot dope the cops hoodie. Yeah, but say 2:33:30.280 --> 2:33:34.680 like safe safe drug injection and ingestion sites are have 2:33:34.800 --> 2:33:38.520 been have been very good at preventing deaths in Vancouver, BC. 2:33:39.040 --> 2:33:40.920 And there's just a good idea in general. And I 2:33:40.920 --> 2:33:43.360 will be excited at the prospect. They're an incredibly good 2:33:43.400 --> 2:33:46.520 idea and they also if you're trying to again talk 2:33:46.560 --> 2:33:49.800 about this to conservatives in your life, they're cheaper than 2:33:49.959 --> 2:33:52.879 just letting people be addicted to drugs on the street 2:33:52.920 --> 2:33:56.920 because people don't steal stuff. Also, their heroin is free. Also, 2:33:56.959 --> 2:33:59.280 they won't have ridiculous medical bills. They get paid by 2:33:59.280 --> 2:34:02.680 the state, and they're more likely to seek treatment even 2:34:02.720 --> 2:34:05.960 if you don't mandate that, especially if you don't mandate that, 2:34:06.040 --> 2:34:10.119 because as a rule, people don't like having problematic addictions 2:34:10.120 --> 2:34:13.440 to drugs, and if they can deal with their immediate 2:34:13.480 --> 2:34:16.640 needs and also know that there's help available, they will 2:34:16.680 --> 2:34:20.480 often choose to get help. So and I think I 2:34:20.520 --> 2:34:23.959 have I have one more actual prediction is that a 2:34:24.000 --> 2:34:27.000 new Matrix video game will be announced, and that is 2:34:27.120 --> 2:34:29.600 that is all of my predictions. Oh, we should probably 2:34:29.600 --> 2:34:32.000 talk about Matrix for briefly. That's what the people want. 2:34:32.080 --> 2:34:36.320 Garrison and And for the record, this is going to 2:34:36.360 --> 2:34:39.440 be controversial because some people have no taste, but we 2:34:39.520 --> 2:34:43.720 both think it fucking ruled. It is possibly the best 2:34:43.760 --> 2:34:47.320 Matrix film. It was really fun, it's it's very good 2:34:47.360 --> 2:34:49.320 if you think about it, for any amount of time. 2:34:49.440 --> 2:34:53.840 It gets very good in the way it addresses, um, 2:34:53.879 --> 2:34:57.080 the system's power to incorporate revolt as a part of 2:34:57.120 --> 2:35:00.880 the system, which was already teased inside me a monetie, 2:35:00.000 --> 2:35:03.840 it's reloaded. But yeah, like the matrix using the weapon 2:35:03.920 --> 2:35:05.959 that wants to find you against you, and the matrix 2:35:06.080 --> 2:35:11.880 weaponizing all of your ideas against you. UM is very good. UM. 2:35:11.920 --> 2:35:13.760 I know Lana put a lot of thought into this, 2:35:13.879 --> 2:35:17.480 particularly around who she is, how she's developed, and how 2:35:17.560 --> 2:35:21.760 her work has been turned against her and what she believes. UM, 2:35:21.800 --> 2:35:24.440 both by like the people and also like corporately in 2:35:24.560 --> 2:35:28.240 terms of like achieving the correct amount of meta that 2:35:28.320 --> 2:35:32.480 it's not useless drivel while still actually being aware of 2:35:32.520 --> 2:35:35.240 what it is. UM. I think was done well. I 2:35:35.280 --> 2:35:38.119 know there's there's some people and like the postmodern thing, 2:35:38.160 --> 2:35:41.520 who think it don't who think it doesn't go meta enough, 2:35:41.560 --> 2:35:44.119 And I think that's nonsense, because if you go any 2:35:44.160 --> 2:35:46.879 if you if you point out that pointing out that 2:35:47.000 --> 2:35:49.760 pointing out revolting against the system is part of the system, 2:35:50.000 --> 2:35:52.760 then you've lost everybody, Like no one cares because you 2:35:52.959 --> 2:35:56.119 can add on those layers endlessly and it's just dribble. Um. 2:35:56.160 --> 2:35:58.840 So I think they got the correct amount of meta. Well, 2:35:58.920 --> 2:36:01.199 then a bend, not not banning that idea, but moving 2:36:01.240 --> 2:36:02.720 it on me, like you know, you know, it's more 2:36:02.760 --> 2:36:05.920 important than being meta is making friends and finding human 2:36:05.959 --> 2:36:09.560 connections because going through the world like this isolated like 2:36:09.600 --> 2:36:12.039 Thomas Anderson is when he's in the Matrix, as like 2:36:12.120 --> 2:36:14.160 as as games that are a big part of that 2:36:14.200 --> 2:36:16.760 problem is that he's very isolated. And the whole point 2:36:16.840 --> 2:36:19.680 is like, no, you need to find friends, find connections, 2:36:20.000 --> 2:36:23.720 get like like be have people around you to build 2:36:23.720 --> 2:36:27.040 a network of and they actually start like like loving 2:36:27.080 --> 2:36:30.280 other people is really one of the only ways out 2:36:30.320 --> 2:36:34.480 of this looping cycle and layering of Matrix is that 2:36:34.520 --> 2:36:39.400 we always live in Um. It was. It's a wonderful film. 2:36:39.600 --> 2:36:41.800 I can talk I can talk about it for hours, 2:36:41.840 --> 2:36:44.800 but we could do a whole podcast about why we 2:36:44.879 --> 2:36:48.840 enjoyed Matrix four um but it's it's pretty fun and 2:36:49.040 --> 2:36:51.120 my only the only thing I'll add to that is 2:36:51.440 --> 2:36:54.280 a lot of people, fools is what I call them, 2:36:54.400 --> 2:36:56.400 are angry at the fact that it ended with the 2:36:56.440 --> 2:37:00.560 Brass Against cover of he was so good. It was 2:37:00.640 --> 2:37:06.120 so good it was, and it the cover of that 2:37:06.360 --> 2:37:09.000 song opens an exactly so that the singer, the lead 2:37:09.000 --> 2:37:13.400 singer of Brass Against became briefly famous mid late last 2:37:13.480 --> 2:37:17.960 year UM when during while playing that exact song on stage, 2:37:18.080 --> 2:37:22.520 she urinated into a fan's mouth and the song that 2:37:23.080 --> 2:37:25.600 the cover that ends the Matrix starts at exactly the 2:37:25.640 --> 2:37:27.720 moment where she pete in that guy's mouth during the 2:37:27.720 --> 2:37:30.800 live show. And I am certain that Lana Wachowski was 2:37:30.800 --> 2:37:33.760 planning to use the original Rage against the Machine version 2:37:33.800 --> 2:37:36.840 of that song, and then that news dropped and was like, well, 2:37:36.879 --> 2:37:39.400 let's get these Brass Against people. I I want, I 2:37:39.440 --> 2:37:45.480 want the Piste song on other thing I wanted. Theory 2:37:45.520 --> 2:37:49.879 is reflecting on the analyst as a character and how 2:37:49.920 --> 2:37:54.160 he relates to kind of the meat space argument and 2:37:54.200 --> 2:37:57.680 how digital systems and algorithms and social media operates. He 2:37:57.879 --> 2:38:01.560 if you listen to him talk um and within the 2:38:01.600 --> 2:38:04.840 whole context, within the whole context of the film, he um. 2:38:05.480 --> 2:38:08.760 They think there's actually some more insightful points than what 2:38:08.840 --> 2:38:12.480 you might originally suspect around like social media UM and 2:38:12.959 --> 2:38:18.240 digital nous versus realness um just always you know, always 2:38:18.280 --> 2:38:21.320 a factor in in Matrix films, but the way the 2:38:21.320 --> 2:38:22.720 way they handle it in this soil much thing is 2:38:22.720 --> 2:38:24.800 a lot more mature than all the topics they handle 2:38:24.840 --> 2:38:27.320 in their previous films. And I mean there's just so 2:38:27.360 --> 2:38:30.640 many like really good, like single lines that offer like 2:38:30.760 --> 2:38:33.280 really good like oh wow, like that's just like a 2:38:33.440 --> 2:38:35.800 very good point, and then they just move past them 2:38:35.840 --> 2:38:39.119 so like so effortlessly, like you could focus on any 2:38:39.120 --> 2:38:41.680 one of those really good lines, and they just offer 2:38:41.760 --> 2:38:45.039 up so many and at many points. And I like 2:38:45.120 --> 2:38:48.560 that they turned the Mayor of Engian into Ted Kaczynski. Um, 2:38:48.600 --> 2:38:50.680 it's just fun. Like at the end of the day, 2:38:51.360 --> 2:38:55.400 it's just actually really fun and it doesn't feel exactly 2:38:55.440 --> 2:38:57.640 like the other movies in the series, which is what 2:38:57.680 --> 2:38:59.720 I want. I don't like reboots. I wasn't a fan 2:38:59.760 --> 2:39:03.560 of the Star Wars reboot because it was like I've 2:39:03.560 --> 2:39:06.440 seen this again, Yeah, yeah, I I like I like 2:39:06.520 --> 2:39:08.640 that it. I like that a lot of the action 2:39:08.680 --> 2:39:10.360 in this movie, right up until kind of the end 2:39:10.360 --> 2:39:13.960 feels perfunctory and like I like like kind of saying 2:39:14.000 --> 2:39:16.320 like I don't care about this part anymore, Like I've 2:39:16.360 --> 2:39:21.000 done the guy's fighting agents and bullet time. Um that 2:39:21.120 --> 2:39:24.000 you know, at the end there's some more some more 2:39:24.200 --> 2:39:27.280 loving action set pieces, but like from the beginning, it's 2:39:27.400 --> 2:39:30.440 very much it's much more like a really fun commentary 2:39:30.600 --> 2:39:34.000 on how Hollywood works and how the video game industry works. 2:39:34.280 --> 2:39:36.720 There's a fucking mass effect joke in there. There's a 2:39:36.800 --> 2:39:39.600 joke about like the nineteen nine, nine or two thousand 2:39:39.600 --> 2:39:43.039 Matrix video game that happened before Garrison was born. It's 2:39:43.120 --> 2:39:45.560 so fun. It's it's just a lot of fun as 2:39:45.600 --> 2:39:52.400 a movie. It's rad mhm. Well, um, any any other 2:39:52.480 --> 2:39:58.240 final final predictions before we wrap up this this extremely 2:39:58.320 --> 2:40:01.000 well thought through episode that we port our hearts and 2:40:01.040 --> 2:40:03.520 minds into. We really did. Dr oz is going to 2:40:03.600 --> 2:40:07.439 go down in flames. Oh I hope so? Oh man. 2:40:08.120 --> 2:40:10.120 I really have no idea what to expect from I 2:40:10.120 --> 2:40:12.640 have no idea. I'm not making I'm not making any 2:40:12.640 --> 2:40:16.440 prediction on that because I too have no idea. The 2:40:16.440 --> 2:40:18.360 only thing that I'll say is that one way or 2:40:18.400 --> 2:40:19.959 the other, it's going to be a bell weather. If 2:40:20.000 --> 2:40:22.199 it like goes great for him and he wins easily, 2:40:22.280 --> 2:40:25.160 we're going to see a lot more like Dr Phil 2:40:25.280 --> 2:40:29.360 is absolutely rolling into Congress. If that works for oz 2:40:30.160 --> 2:40:33.680 Um and other other people who are kind of occupy 2:40:33.800 --> 2:40:36.480 similar cultural spaces, will do the same thing, and then 2:40:36.520 --> 2:40:40.760 we'll have congressional inquiries about whether or not this simple 2:40:40.800 --> 2:40:46.200 trick will burn belly fat. It's gonna if it's like like, 2:40:46.240 --> 2:40:48.600 if that's what happens. Like the thing, the thing Trump 2:40:48.680 --> 2:40:51.840 is going to be remembered for like is being like, well, 2:40:51.879 --> 2:40:53.560 the thing the thing Reagan is going to be remembered 2:40:53.600 --> 2:40:56.840 for is being just like like fifty years ahead of 2:40:56.840 --> 2:41:00.680 his time before. We're literally all entirely ruled just reality 2:41:00.720 --> 2:41:05.920 TV stars mm hm whose wives are great at giving head? 2:41:09.760 --> 2:41:12.360 Should I? Did anyone? Did everyone already forget that Nancy 2:41:12.400 --> 2:41:21.280 Reagan throat goat discourse? Discourse? Everyone was so exhausted. Yeah, 2:41:21.560 --> 2:41:24.720 if you didn't catch this, it's a very well known 2:41:24.879 --> 2:41:27.280 secret and has been for like fifty years that back 2:41:27.360 --> 2:41:30.320 before they got married and probably after. Nancy was famous 2:41:30.360 --> 2:41:34.960 for giving the best blow jobs in Hollywood as as 2:41:35.000 --> 2:41:40.640 as Garrison tosses the cat every single episode. So I 2:41:40.720 --> 2:41:50.520 disdained this discourse. Now, yeah, two, it's a year, We're 2:41:50.520 --> 2:41:52.840 in it. Okay. My My last prediction is I actually 2:41:52.920 --> 2:41:56.800 do think this year is gonna suck slightly less? Did me? Now? 2:41:57.480 --> 2:41:59.160 This is probably the big one. I'm gonna eat it on, 2:41:59.240 --> 2:42:02.920 but like, hopefully you don't happen, hopefully you're right about it. 2:42:02.959 --> 2:42:06.840 So I'm um, no, yeah, I think that there's a 2:42:06.879 --> 2:42:10.600 decent chance that we're that it's better. Um, it's at 2:42:10.640 --> 2:42:13.199 least in some ways. The climate stuff, as it nearly 2:42:13.240 --> 2:42:16.240 always will for the foreseeable future, will keep getting worse. 2:42:16.320 --> 2:42:18.960 But yeah, I think there's actually a chance that COVID 2:42:18.959 --> 2:42:21.840 will get better, not because of any policy decision, but 2:42:21.879 --> 2:42:26.520 because O Macron literally nine of human beings and in 2:42:26.560 --> 2:42:31.160 the world get it, and those that survive COVID stops 2:42:31.160 --> 2:42:33.920 passing on as much, which is kind of vaguely speaking 2:42:33.959 --> 2:42:38.160 what happened with you know, the influenza. I will be 2:42:40.000 --> 2:42:43.119 probably foolish in making one more prediction, that is, like 2:42:43.480 --> 2:42:46.480 around the fall, we will not see spikes as big 2:42:46.520 --> 2:42:49.800 as we saw this last year. Um. I do think 2:42:50.240 --> 2:42:52.080 there will probably still be some, but I do think 2:42:52.080 --> 2:42:56.240 the numbers are going to be generally trending down. Um. Yeah, 2:42:56.400 --> 2:42:58.480 after O Macron hits its peak, just because how do 2:42:58.560 --> 2:43:03.520 people will get infected? Many antibodies plus vaccines will be circulating, um, 2:43:03.560 --> 2:43:06.280 and how many people have already been who don't take 2:43:06.280 --> 2:43:11.000 the vaccine have will already have like died off. It's 2:43:11.200 --> 2:43:13.440 I'm not saying that to be like flip into to 2:43:13.520 --> 2:43:15.920 be like, but it's like, I just that's what the 2:43:15.959 --> 2:43:19.120 world that it's the world that we live in. I 2:43:19.240 --> 2:43:23.160 hate it, um, but I do hope and I do 2:43:23.280 --> 2:43:28.280 hope and some slightly predict that we'll have less less 2:43:28.280 --> 2:43:31.640 spiking numbers around this next fall and winter as we 2:43:31.680 --> 2:43:34.000 did of this current you know, fall and winter season. 2:43:34.440 --> 2:43:37.879 I wouldn't mind ending on a note of appreciation for 2:43:37.920 --> 2:43:40.480 the fucking booster because we got it. You and I 2:43:40.520 --> 2:43:42.760 both garrison, as did most of our friends, and had 2:43:43.240 --> 2:43:47.800 just a shipload of COVID flying around us everywhere. I 2:43:47.879 --> 2:43:51.560 love a lot of infections, and we were fine, fine. 2:43:52.200 --> 2:43:56.039 I have one of my friends got COVID and her mom, 2:43:56.120 --> 2:43:58.560 who they live in the same house, did not has 2:43:58.600 --> 2:44:02.000 not gotten COVID because wearing masks and they got the booster. 2:44:03.240 --> 2:44:05.760 And for for all my friends that that did get 2:44:05.800 --> 2:44:11.960 COVID that had that were boosted, the vaccine didn't there. 2:44:12.040 --> 2:44:15.000 You're not in the hospital. You're double test positive on 2:44:15.080 --> 2:44:18.160 a rapid test and then test negative on a PCR, 2:44:18.560 --> 2:44:21.000 probably because by the time he got to the PCR, 2:44:21.120 --> 2:44:23.120 like the next day, his viral load was just so 2:44:23.240 --> 2:44:28.000 fucking low. Um, get the third vacs, the vaccine works. 2:44:28.080 --> 2:44:31.920 Who could have predicted? Who could have predicted? The things 2:44:32.000 --> 2:44:36.080 that are literally the entire basis of our modern concept 2:44:36.120 --> 2:44:39.440 of the value of human life continue to be very effective? 2:44:40.920 --> 2:44:46.720 All right, Well that that doesn't for us. Um, unplugged, 2:44:47.040 --> 2:44:51.920 Go spend time outside, touch grass, touch your mirror, like 2:44:52.080 --> 2:44:55.320 trying to go through it, because you try to go through. Um, 2:44:55.560 --> 2:44:59.080 what's really it's not see if see if maybe you 2:44:59.280 --> 2:45:02.800 were the digital Messiah and you have been trapped in 2:45:02.800 --> 2:45:06.640 a simulation where you work at a food lion, um, 2:45:06.680 --> 2:45:09.440 and and you can break free of it, Um, but 2:45:09.520 --> 2:45:13.080 not fly anymore because now your girlfriends he does he 2:45:13.160 --> 2:45:15.320 does fly with Trinity at the end, he does fly 2:45:15.400 --> 2:45:19.600 with Trinity. Sure, just as we all can only fly 2:45:19.920 --> 2:45:25.560 with with well with Carrie at Masson's Yeah, specifically, who 2:45:25.560 --> 2:45:28.080 has gotten so much hotter as they? All? Right, Well, 2:45:28.080 --> 2:45:38.800 that's that's where we are. The Black Effect presents features 2:45:38.800 --> 2:45:43.039 honest conversations and exclusive interviews, a space for artists, everyday 2:45:43.080 --> 2:45:47.480 people and listeners to amplify, elevate, and empower black voices 2:45:47.800 --> 2:45:50.800 with great conversations. Make sure to listen to the Black 2:45:50.800 --> 2:45:54.600 Effect Presents podcast on I Heart Radio, Apple podcast or 2:45:54.600 --> 2:46:01.920 wherever you get your podcast. Here's of the great American settlers. 2:46:02.640 --> 2:46:06.720 The millions of you have settled for unsatisfying jobs because 2:46:06.760 --> 2:46:09.879 they pay the bills, and you just kind of fell 2:46:09.920 --> 2:46:14.440 into it, and you know, it's like totally fine, just 2:46:14.560 --> 2:46:18.200 another few decades or so and then you can enjoy yourself. 2:46:18.920 --> 2:46:22.040 Of course, there is something else you could do. If 2:46:22.040 --> 2:46:25.480 you've got something to say, You could, I don't know, 2:46:25.760 --> 2:46:29.920 start up podcast with Spreaker from my heart and unleash 2:46:29.959 --> 2:46:34.080 your creative freedom and spend all day researching and talking 2:46:34.120 --> 2:46:38.000 about stuff you love and maybe even earn enough money 2:46:38.040 --> 2:46:41.440 to one day tell your irritating boss as you quit 2:46:41.800 --> 2:46:46.359 and walk off into the sunset. Hey I'm no settler, 2:46:47.000 --> 2:46:53.200 I'm an explorer. Spreaker dot com. That's spr e a 2:46:53.480 --> 2:47:06.440 k e er Hustle on over today. Hey, everybody, welcome 2:47:06.480 --> 2:47:08.800 to it could happen here. I am Robert Evans, and 2:47:08.840 --> 2:47:10.720 this is the show where we talk about how everything 2:47:10.760 --> 2:47:12.720 is kind of falling apart and how we might put 2:47:12.760 --> 2:47:15.520 it back together again in a way that works better 2:47:15.720 --> 2:47:18.879 than it did before. Um or do something different that 2:47:19.160 --> 2:47:22.760 is even anyway, whatever, it's a show about the future 2:47:22.840 --> 2:47:25.080 and about the messed up present. Um And as a 2:47:25.080 --> 2:47:26.600 result of that, one of the things we talked about 2:47:26.600 --> 2:47:29.120 a lot is self sufficiency. We've had a number of 2:47:29.120 --> 2:47:32.040 episodes kind of covering the values of like replacing your 2:47:32.080 --> 2:47:35.160 lawn with food, guerilla gardening, that sort of stuff. And 2:47:35.360 --> 2:47:37.440 one of the critiques we get is people saying, well, 2:47:37.440 --> 2:47:39.760 you know, that's never gonna work on a large scale. 2:47:39.760 --> 2:47:43.160 It's never going to replace industrial agriculture or whatever. And 2:47:43.480 --> 2:47:46.879 that's perfectly true. But the point we're going for here 2:47:46.920 --> 2:47:50.279 and why we encourage these kind of resilience building activities 2:47:50.360 --> 2:47:53.480 is because they do improve the ability of communities to 2:47:53.560 --> 2:47:57.000 resist when they need to resist, and also provide opportunities 2:47:57.200 --> 2:48:00.680 by which people can reimagine their relationship to, for example, 2:48:00.680 --> 2:48:03.400 the food supply chain, or reimagine the relationship to their 2:48:03.400 --> 2:48:06.120 community and the kind of things that communities provide for 2:48:06.160 --> 2:48:10.160 each other rather than having them shipped in by Amazon. Um. 2:48:10.280 --> 2:48:12.480 And when we start talking about that, when we start 2:48:12.560 --> 2:48:16.440 talking about improving community resiliency for things like, you know, 2:48:16.640 --> 2:48:20.879 a general strike or even potentially more radical stuff, one 2:48:20.879 --> 2:48:23.720 of the big issues that any community has to confront 2:48:23.840 --> 2:48:26.640 is not just food but medicine. I'm I do, and 2:48:26.640 --> 2:48:28.680 I'm sure a lot of other people have friends who 2:48:28.959 --> 2:48:33.959 cannot survive without medications that are very like reliant upon 2:48:34.120 --> 2:48:37.959 existing supply chains UM, and to some extent even the 2:48:37.959 --> 2:48:41.199 stability of the government. You know, UM, getting your insulin, 2:48:41.320 --> 2:48:45.280 getting your medication for whatever kind of disease you have 2:48:45.480 --> 2:48:47.760 that that needs constant medication. There's a bunch of different 2:48:47.800 --> 2:48:51.680 reasons why people are reliant upon the medical UM supply 2:48:51.760 --> 2:48:54.960 lines and upon the kind of pharmaceutical industry. And that's 2:48:55.000 --> 2:48:57.040 one of the big when we talk about building more 2:48:57.160 --> 2:48:59.920 resilient communities, one of the big hurdles to jump. Well. Today, 2:49:00.400 --> 2:49:04.600 my guest is someone who is working on bridging some 2:49:04.680 --> 2:49:07.720 of these problems. UM. His name is Michael Lawfer, and 2:49:07.760 --> 2:49:10.400 he is the founder of an organization called the Four 2:49:10.480 --> 2:49:15.040 Thieves Vinegar Collective. They are bio hackers UM, and they 2:49:15.080 --> 2:49:21.160 are working on cracking certain pharmaceutical medications to allow individuals 2:49:21.280 --> 2:49:25.520 with resources that are generally available to people who are 2:49:25.600 --> 2:49:31.879 not rich or pharmaceutical companies UM, to produce life saving medications. UM. 2:49:31.920 --> 2:49:34.000 The number one thing you would have heard of from 2:49:34.000 --> 2:49:36.920 Four Thieves is the EPI pencil, which we'll talk about 2:49:36.959 --> 2:49:39.039 in a bit. But first, Michael, thank you for coming 2:49:39.040 --> 2:49:41.280 on the show. Thanks so much for having me. It's 2:49:41.320 --> 2:49:44.520 exciting to be able to chat and talk with you 2:49:44.640 --> 2:49:47.840 and all the people surrounding you who are trying to 2:49:49.000 --> 2:49:52.960 just unfun things a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, and I 2:49:53.760 --> 2:49:56.080 most of the conversation I want to have today is 2:49:56.120 --> 2:49:59.400 on the unfucking of things variety. But I do think 2:49:59.440 --> 2:50:01.920 we should start with a little bit of technical talk first. 2:50:02.440 --> 2:50:05.320 Can you give people an idea of what kind of 2:50:05.360 --> 2:50:08.600 medications you and other people in the collective have figured 2:50:08.600 --> 2:50:12.519 out how to produce um and what kind of resources 2:50:12.520 --> 2:50:14.800 and individual needs to be able to do some of 2:50:14.840 --> 2:50:20.039 this stuff. Sure. So, from a technical perspective, most of 2:50:20.080 --> 2:50:22.680 the things that we focus on are what's called small 2:50:22.720 --> 2:50:29.240 molecule chemistry. And to kind of describe that blanketly, if 2:50:29.280 --> 2:50:31.760 you can draw the molecule on a cocktail napkin, it 2:50:31.800 --> 2:50:34.760 probably qualifies as a small molecule if it's one of 2:50:34.800 --> 2:50:37.080 these things that, like, you know, if you look at 2:50:37.120 --> 2:50:40.039 the diagram for the molecules approaching, it's got big ribbons 2:50:40.040 --> 2:50:43.000 that are colored and stuff that's a that's a biochem thing. 2:50:43.000 --> 2:50:48.080 And it's a whole different set of problems now. The 2:50:48.360 --> 2:50:57.560 mean focide that we've had have been surrounding access to abortion, 2:50:58.200 --> 2:51:05.199 access to HIV medications, access to hepatitis C medications, and 2:51:05.480 --> 2:51:09.280 access to reversal of drug overdose medications. So that's been 2:51:09.320 --> 2:51:11.480 sort of our main focus, but there's been a handful 2:51:11.520 --> 2:51:14.080 of others. The things that we tend to look for 2:51:14.120 --> 2:51:19.000 our where are there things that there's a great need 2:51:19.520 --> 2:51:23.040 and there's a huge barrier, And so you see those 2:51:23.320 --> 2:51:27.600 in those places a lot, because the three main barriers 2:51:27.640 --> 2:51:31.120 that tend to pop up between somebody and access to 2:51:31.120 --> 2:51:36.000 the medication they need are either price or legality or 2:51:36.080 --> 2:51:41.880 lack of infrastructure. And typically the weirdness that comes up 2:51:43.320 --> 2:51:51.440 mostly surrounds price because of intellectual property laws and marginalization 2:51:51.800 --> 2:51:56.440 of people who suffer from particular ailments or seem to 2:51:56.480 --> 2:52:00.879 suffer predominantly from particular ailments. And so if you're if 2:52:00.879 --> 2:52:03.240 you're poor, and you're in a class of people that 2:52:04.120 --> 2:52:06.320 is seen as something not to be cared about because 2:52:06.360 --> 2:52:12.520 they're not a strong voter base, then the ability to 2:52:12.720 --> 2:52:17.240 move access away from those people and put in more 2:52:17.360 --> 2:52:24.800 barriers and raise prices becomes easier to defend UM. So, 2:52:25.760 --> 2:52:33.000 the first drug that we focused on was a an 2:52:33.040 --> 2:52:43.840 anti parasitic. Um. Toxoplasmosis is a parasite that's pretty innocuous 2:52:44.000 --> 2:52:47.120 for most people anybody when you get from cats, right 2:52:47.200 --> 2:52:49.520 or is this not Gandhi it is. It is the 2:52:49.520 --> 2:52:52.240 one you get from cats. And it's really fascinating parasite too, 2:52:52.280 --> 2:52:55.480 if you if you ever dig into the behavioral biology 2:52:55.520 --> 2:52:58.560 of it, it's really really fascinating parasite. UM. I probably 2:52:58.600 --> 2:53:01.920 have it. Yeah, I have three cats. I definitely have it. 2:53:03.240 --> 2:53:06.760 So and so it's not a big deal for those people. 2:53:06.840 --> 2:53:09.560 But if you have a massively compromised immune system, especially 2:53:09.600 --> 2:53:12.680 with people with HIV or advanced stages of cancer, and 2:53:12.720 --> 2:53:15.920 that's why it was labeled sort of you know HIV drug, 2:53:16.000 --> 2:53:18.119 it's not it's a it's an anti parasitic. But it's 2:53:18.240 --> 2:53:22.400 used almost exclusively by people who are an advanced stages 2:53:22.480 --> 2:53:27.560 of cancer. Uh, people with fairly compromised immune systems from 2:53:27.680 --> 2:53:31.200 HIV or something else, and then pregnant women. Um, And 2:53:31.280 --> 2:53:35.120 it's not that big deal. If you have access to 2:53:36.200 --> 2:53:40.240 the medication, you can merely take it and eradicates from body. Uh. 2:53:41.400 --> 2:53:43.600 The difference was is that something that was a short 2:53:43.640 --> 2:53:48.960 course of treatment you take I think for um, you know, 2:53:49.200 --> 2:53:55.240 four doses the first time around, and then one dose 2:53:55.320 --> 2:53:58.520 each day subsequently for something like ten days, um. And 2:53:58.600 --> 2:54:00.640 that's not a big deal when each shows each pill 2:54:00.680 --> 2:54:03.119 was about thirteen and a half dollars and then Martin 2:54:03.360 --> 2:54:06.600 cry jacked up the price to seven fifty a pill, 2:54:07.440 --> 2:54:10.640 and so I'm like, well, this is ridiculous. That was 2:54:10.680 --> 2:54:13.360 the first one that we went after. Then of course 2:54:13.400 --> 2:54:16.520 access to abortion drugs, um, that's a big one. That's 2:54:16.560 --> 2:54:21.440 pretty topical. Lately. We released a video maybe three months 2:54:21.480 --> 2:54:23.119 ago on how you can make your own abortion pills 2:54:23.120 --> 2:54:26.920 without too much fuss. This would be mythopristone right uh 2:54:27.360 --> 2:54:31.240 Mitho pristone and Mr Pristall. So you can do it 2:54:31.400 --> 2:54:35.760 with just Mr Purstall, or you can do it in combination. 2:54:36.480 --> 2:54:39.840 And when you do it with just the one with 2:54:40.040 --> 2:54:44.600 just Miso, you have about an eighty five pc chance 2:54:45.000 --> 2:54:48.400 of it working. And if you have both. They bumps 2:54:48.440 --> 2:54:51.120 it up to about and what is the like what 2:54:51.520 --> 2:54:53.160 when you're doing this? And we'll talk a little bit 2:54:53.160 --> 2:54:55.080 with the hardware, but like what is the re agent 2:54:55.520 --> 2:54:57.520 that you have for this? Because I know that's been 2:54:57.520 --> 2:54:59.200 A big part of some of the discussions is like, 2:54:59.240 --> 2:55:01.800 how do you get the things you make the medicines from, 2:55:01.840 --> 2:55:05.000 which is easier for some than it is for others. Sure, 2:55:05.160 --> 2:55:07.800 there are a couple different ways that you google about that. 2:55:08.400 --> 2:55:12.120 The the interesting but more difficult way, of course, is 2:55:12.160 --> 2:55:15.640 to do the chemistry from scratch, where like you say, 2:55:15.720 --> 2:55:19.120 you get access from agents, you do some chemistry, and 2:55:19.160 --> 2:55:24.000 you end up with the active pharmaceutical ingredient, which we 2:55:24.360 --> 2:55:26.080 lovingly referred to as the A p I, and then 2:55:26.120 --> 2:55:29.160 you package it somehow into a tablet or a pill 2:55:29.320 --> 2:55:38.879 or or some other means of ingress into the body. Um. 2:55:39.080 --> 2:55:46.160 The instructions that we distributed skip the difficult part because 2:55:47.600 --> 2:55:55.520 Mr Pristal is an ulcer medication, and so, for instance, 2:55:55.560 --> 2:55:59.680 if you have access to Mexico or are in Mexico, 2:55:59.800 --> 2:56:02.160 it's kind of not a big deal because as an 2:56:02.200 --> 2:56:05.000 ulcer medication, it's over the counter and you can just 2:56:05.040 --> 2:56:09.200 go in and say, oh, you know, my grandmother can't 2:56:09.200 --> 2:56:11.680 get out of bed. She needs this ulcer medication. I 2:56:11.720 --> 2:56:13.480 need just a little bit of it to get her 2:56:13.520 --> 2:56:17.959 through the weekend. UM, and then no problem. Uh, not 2:56:18.120 --> 2:56:21.320 so easy in places where it's a little more controlled 2:56:21.360 --> 2:56:30.760 like the US. However, one amazing trick when looking for medicines, 2:56:33.120 --> 2:56:37.240 access to medicines that are generally blocked from people that 2:56:37.360 --> 2:56:44.600 the existing power structure tries to disenfranchise from access is 2:56:44.640 --> 2:56:48.640 you look and see if it's similarly used for other 2:56:48.720 --> 2:56:54.000 classes of person or being that the infrastructure does care about. 2:56:54.360 --> 2:56:58.800 So interestingly, you look for ulcer medication, you say, well, like, well, 2:56:58.840 --> 2:57:02.160 who else has ulcers that you know, people might think 2:57:02.200 --> 2:57:05.200 are important people. That doesn't really come up, and there 2:57:05.240 --> 2:57:08.000 are other ulster medications are a little bit better. However, 2:57:09.000 --> 2:57:10.520 there are a lot of really wealthy people in the 2:57:10.560 --> 2:57:13.959 United States, and really wealthy people tend to keep horses, 2:57:15.520 --> 2:57:23.960 and horses interestingly, um nine or something or maybe more, 2:57:24.080 --> 2:57:31.480 some ungodly percentage of domesticated horses have ulcers. Um. Now 2:57:31.560 --> 2:57:36.040 why that is, I'm not entirely clear about, but my 2:57:36.120 --> 2:57:38.320 own theory is that it has something to do with 2:57:38.320 --> 2:57:41.200 taking a gigantic wild animal and putting it into a 2:57:41.280 --> 2:57:43.879 very small box for most of its life. Yeah, it 2:57:43.920 --> 2:57:47.760 doesn't seem like the thing that horses evolved to do. Yeah. 2:57:48.240 --> 2:57:53.640 So so that said, people who are horse owners typically 2:57:53.640 --> 2:57:56.720 have to treat them constantly for ulcers and the best 2:57:56.840 --> 2:58:00.520 thing for that is Mr Prstal. And so you can 2:58:00.600 --> 2:58:07.600 get Mr Crystall powder in a tub from places that, yeah, 2:58:07.680 --> 2:58:09.959 feedstore or something. Yeah, I go to a feed store 2:58:09.959 --> 2:58:12.040 every week. I'm sure I could buy a bucket of 2:58:12.120 --> 2:58:15.480 this ship probably, So it comes in tubs. And the 2:58:15.520 --> 2:58:17.400 other thing that's great about it coming in a tub 2:58:17.600 --> 2:58:21.320 is that it's already in with a buffer. Part of 2:58:21.320 --> 2:58:25.720 the thing about Mr Crystall is that the dosages in micrograms, 2:58:25.720 --> 2:58:27.600 and that's very hard to weigh unless you have a 2:58:27.640 --> 2:58:31.760 really high precision scale. Even your good drug dealers generally 2:58:31.760 --> 2:58:35.520 don't have a scale that can do that, right. So, 2:58:35.959 --> 2:58:38.119 but the magic is this isn't a tub with a 2:58:38.160 --> 2:58:42.480 bunch of inert powder and it's it's already mixed up 2:58:42.520 --> 2:58:45.080 to be homogeneous. And so what you can do is 2:58:45.080 --> 2:58:46.320 you can do a little bit of back of the 2:58:46.400 --> 2:58:51.800 envelope arithmetic and you can measure out much larger quantities 2:58:51.879 --> 2:58:55.280 and know how much active ingredients you have and then 2:58:55.280 --> 2:59:02.080 pack that into a tablet. Now yeah, um, I mean 2:59:02.080 --> 2:59:05.400 that makes so much sense. And it's also like like 2:59:05.520 --> 2:59:08.680 the you have kind of the dark side and light 2:59:08.760 --> 2:59:10.879 side version. It's kind of the light side version of 2:59:10.920 --> 2:59:14.400 all of those people buying up ivermectin for for nonsense. 2:59:14.440 --> 2:59:17.000 It's like, well, no, there's reasons to buy you know, 2:59:17.440 --> 2:59:23.240 like uh, livestock medication especially. Um. I mean, I have 2:59:23.240 --> 2:59:25.400 a lot of friends who took fishing antibiotics back in 2:59:25.440 --> 2:59:27.039 the day, and this is kind of a much more 2:59:27.959 --> 2:59:30.879 um using it in a much more rigorous way to 2:59:30.959 --> 2:59:35.160 provide people with something that can is getting it will 2:59:35.200 --> 2:59:37.560 be getting increasingly difficult to access in a lot of 2:59:37.560 --> 2:59:40.400 parts of the country. Yeah, it's just such a smart 2:59:40.440 --> 2:59:43.360 way of approaching it, I think. Yeah. And one of 2:59:43.360 --> 2:59:48.280 the things that becomes philosophically a bit sticky is when 2:59:48.840 --> 2:59:57.800 you end up talking about the importance of independent management 2:59:57.959 --> 3:00:01.000 of one's own health and just Asian making not coming 3:00:01.040 --> 3:00:05.480 from above. There's this difficult moment that I've had kind 3:00:05.520 --> 3:00:10.959 of having to cop to the reality that if you're 3:00:11.280 --> 3:00:15.520 building mechanisms to empower people to have access to make 3:00:15.600 --> 3:00:20.080 decisions about managing their own health, h part of that 3:00:20.400 --> 3:00:27.039 entails realizing that thou will also lead to a lot 3:00:27.040 --> 3:00:32.240 of people making what I might think are bad decisions, 3:00:32.720 --> 3:00:36.199 but that the important thing is that it doesn't matter 3:00:36.200 --> 3:00:39.840 what I think that people should not be controlled by 3:00:39.840 --> 3:00:42.840 other people, and if they make bad decisions, that sucks, 3:00:42.920 --> 3:00:47.320 and hopefully we can help that, but not not lamenting 3:00:48.320 --> 3:00:56.120 the importance of or not not backtracking, not having some 3:00:56.200 --> 3:01:02.480 sort of retrograde. Yeah, about offering more access even if 3:01:02.480 --> 3:01:08.920 people misuse that access to the miss manage their own health. 3:01:09.240 --> 3:01:14.400 Mismanagement of health happens no matter what right, It happens constantly, 3:01:14.440 --> 3:01:17.600 and people will ignore things that seem like they're bigger 3:01:17.640 --> 3:01:21.200 problems and don't get them addressed. And so I have 3:01:21.280 --> 3:01:24.320 to sort of retreat into this idea that more access 3:01:24.400 --> 3:01:27.600 to more tools is better and that's just the way 3:01:27.640 --> 3:01:30.840 of it. And yeah, the problem, yeah, I mean, the 3:01:30.879 --> 3:01:33.240 problem with ivermectin isn't the problem. The problem is that 3:01:33.240 --> 3:01:36.040 that people have access to ivermectin and so they're taking 3:01:36.040 --> 3:01:37.600 it in a way that is harmful to them. The 3:01:37.640 --> 3:01:41.440 problem is that people have been have have been blinded 3:01:41.440 --> 3:01:45.000 by disinformation and so are making a horrible health care decision. 3:01:45.480 --> 3:01:48.600 The fact that they have it's possessed to veterinary medication 3:01:48.800 --> 3:01:52.320 is fine, right, exactly, And and it's and it's interesting 3:01:52.320 --> 3:01:54.120 that you say that because I have a friend of 3:01:54.200 --> 3:01:58.600 doctors without borders and they are starting a couple of 3:01:58.879 --> 3:02:03.160 pretty strong programs to try and combat misinformation, because just 3:02:03.320 --> 3:02:09.360 from a metric standpoint, they look for sort of like, 3:02:09.400 --> 3:02:12.080 what's killing the greatest number of people at the greatest 3:02:12.160 --> 3:02:15.039 rate in the worst way, And currently the thing that's 3:02:15.080 --> 3:02:17.240 killing the most people in the worst way at the 3:02:17.240 --> 3:02:22.560 greatest rate is misinformation, And so yeah, that's that's really 3:02:22.600 --> 3:02:26.000 the great danger. And one of the things I found 3:02:26.000 --> 3:02:28.440 really interesting about kind of what you all have been 3:02:28.480 --> 3:02:30.920 doing because obviously the question of how to fight the 3:02:30.959 --> 3:02:33.960 misinformation in the medical sphere is a much larger conversation 3:02:34.000 --> 3:02:37.440 without simple answers. When it comes to a question like, oh, hey, 3:02:37.480 --> 3:02:40.160 this pharmaceutical company jacked up the price by what seven 3:02:41.240 --> 3:02:43.960 for this necessary medication for people a lot of people 3:02:44.000 --> 3:02:47.680 who have HIV UM. What are we The solution to 3:02:47.680 --> 3:02:49.240 that is simple, you find a way for them to 3:02:49.240 --> 3:02:51.680 get it without paying hundreds and hundreds of dollars per 3:02:51.720 --> 3:02:55.200 dose um. The question some of the work you all 3:02:55.240 --> 3:03:00.320 have done is with very uh mass needed ducks like 3:03:00.400 --> 3:03:03.760 the methopres don't like the epipencil um where there's large 3:03:03.840 --> 3:03:05.280 numbers of people who need it, But a lot of 3:03:05.320 --> 3:03:06.520 what I think one of the things I think is 3:03:06.560 --> 3:03:09.360 really cool, is y'all are also working on hacking medications 3:03:09.400 --> 3:03:13.000 that are very niche like, very very few people have 3:03:13.160 --> 3:03:18.000 this particular disease, and so the medication is costs as 3:03:18.040 --> 3:03:20.640 much as the fully loaded Toyota tacoma, you know, in 3:03:20.760 --> 3:03:24.520 order to sometimes far worse than that. Because of this 3:03:24.920 --> 3:03:27.760 Orphan Drug Act that got past in the US and 3:03:27.920 --> 3:03:32.280 equivalence that exists in other places. You have all of 3:03:32.320 --> 3:03:39.080 these allowances that are granted to people who invent I 3:03:39.160 --> 3:03:44.359 put in air quotes because really they just purchase the 3:03:44.480 --> 3:03:52.039 rights to it. Uh, these these orphan drugs where when 3:03:52.040 --> 3:03:56.800 you talk about controls, it's kind of the most tragic 3:03:58.080 --> 3:04:02.080 incidents of that in entirely because what's happening is you've 3:04:02.120 --> 3:04:05.280 got somebody who has a very rare disease, and in 3:04:05.360 --> 3:04:10.520 many cases you have something that's the difference between somebody 3:04:10.560 --> 3:04:14.640 who just cannot function and they're dealing with their life 3:04:15.360 --> 3:04:18.240 kind of moment to moment there they're mostly cared for, 3:04:19.280 --> 3:04:23.160 and if they have access to a particular medication, then 3:04:23.160 --> 3:04:26.280 they can go through life in a fairly normal sort 3:04:26.280 --> 3:04:29.440 of way where they don't need to be an assisted living, 3:04:29.480 --> 3:04:33.160 where that they can do sort of basic things for themselves, 3:04:34.080 --> 3:04:39.720 and that that seems so much more predatory. I mean, 3:04:39.760 --> 3:04:42.119 it's important, of course, you know, to look at things 3:04:42.560 --> 3:04:44.640 with that macro lens as well and say what can 3:04:44.800 --> 3:04:46.200 what can do a lot of good for a lot 3:04:46.200 --> 3:04:50.960 of people. But then the sort of micro ethical lens 3:04:51.400 --> 3:04:53.240 needs to come out from time to time and say, 3:04:53.280 --> 3:04:56.480 all right, well, here's something that only affects a few 3:04:56.520 --> 3:05:00.240 hundred thousand people across the world. But the these are 3:05:00.280 --> 3:05:04.279 people who could just go through life normally if only 3:05:05.000 --> 3:05:08.760 they had access to a little bit of medicine. And 3:05:08.800 --> 3:05:13.359 the only reason they don't is because of misplaced average 3:05:13.520 --> 3:05:19.080 or all averice is misplaced because yeah, and you're you're 3:05:19.120 --> 3:05:22.680 you're providing individuals or a way for people to to 3:05:22.840 --> 3:05:25.600 help individuals who have this problem and who can't couldn't 3:05:25.600 --> 3:05:27.680 possibly afford this because they don't have health care or 3:05:27.720 --> 3:05:33.120 something a way to deal with these illnesses. Um and oftentimes, 3:05:33.160 --> 3:05:37.720 like even even people who are ensured get the medication 3:05:37.760 --> 3:05:40.960 that they need or don't get an affordable rate because 3:05:41.640 --> 3:05:45.000 it's not seen as critical. Yeah, it's like, oh, well 3:05:45.040 --> 3:05:47.520 there's a there's a solution that's not as good, but 3:05:47.560 --> 3:05:49.640 it's much less expensive. So that's the only thing we're 3:05:49.680 --> 3:05:53.040 going to cover. And so yeah, and you're saying, well, 3:05:53.080 --> 3:05:55.840 it should be your decision whether or not this is 3:05:56.040 --> 3:05:59.039 something you want to treat this way, and we're this 3:05:59.160 --> 3:06:02.600 is a way if you, you know, have access, This 3:06:02.680 --> 3:06:04.480 is a way for you to kind of, as you've 3:06:04.480 --> 3:06:08.600 been saying, like, take your health care and your ability 3:06:08.640 --> 3:06:11.320 to get medication into your own hands and produce the 3:06:11.360 --> 3:06:14.760 things that you need without needing to beg an insurance 3:06:14.800 --> 3:06:19.199 company or go fund me eight dollars or whatever. Yeah. 3:06:19.400 --> 3:06:22.080 Does go fund me break my heart so much? Yeah, 3:06:22.200 --> 3:06:25.240 it's especially when people say, oh, look, how great somebody 3:06:25.320 --> 3:06:28.320 got the money that they needed, and I say, look, 3:06:28.480 --> 3:06:32.640 I am happy that people get healthcare, but this should 3:06:32.640 --> 3:06:36.600 be entirely unnecessary. And the fact that this comes up 3:06:36.680 --> 3:06:40.240 is criminal. Yeah, we can. We can as a species 3:06:40.280 --> 3:06:43.800 produce this ship for less than the cost of like 3:06:43.840 --> 3:06:46.960 a lamp, you know, Like, why why don't why isn't 3:06:47.000 --> 3:06:51.480 this available? Um? Now, I And that's what I think 3:06:51.560 --> 3:06:53.840 is kind of so powerful about what y'all are doing. 3:06:53.959 --> 3:06:58.320 And is that so so often we kind of get 3:06:58.360 --> 3:07:00.960 stuck in this like the horror of how bad health 3:07:00.959 --> 3:07:03.360 care is, of how fund up the pharmaceutical industry is 3:07:03.680 --> 3:07:05.480 and then we get our relief from that in these 3:07:05.480 --> 3:07:08.560 stories of people like crowdfunding so they can get their medication, 3:07:09.040 --> 3:07:11.879 and what you're saying is, well, what's actually much more 3:07:11.920 --> 3:07:15.000 inspiring than that is people just making finding ways to 3:07:15.040 --> 3:07:17.039 make what they need. UM Again, the kind of the 3:07:17.040 --> 3:07:20.480 most popular popular is the wrong word. The most press 3:07:20.560 --> 3:07:22.920 y'all have received, I think is for the epipencil, which 3:07:22.959 --> 3:07:26.280 is an EpiPen is a device that you take that 3:07:26.440 --> 3:07:29.160 is used when people are going into anaphylactic shock, which 3:07:29.160 --> 3:07:31.120 is when they have an allergic reaction that will kill 3:07:31.160 --> 3:07:35.800 them if untreated. Generally, UM and it you injected into 3:07:35.879 --> 3:07:39.280 your muscles or generally, like an EpiPen does the injecting, 3:07:39.320 --> 3:07:41.880 you just kind of put it in place. UM and 3:07:41.959 --> 3:07:44.760 it it is a life saving medication when people need it. 3:07:44.760 --> 3:07:47.240 It's the choice between that and death. UM and they 3:07:47.240 --> 3:07:50.120 are very expensive. There is a company that owns the 3:07:50.120 --> 3:07:53.160 patent because of how the EpiPen actually does the injecting. 3:07:53.160 --> 3:07:56.680 The actual medicine is very cheap and very easy to make, 3:07:56.760 --> 3:07:59.560 but it's unbelievably expensive and people die as a result 3:07:59.600 --> 3:08:03.840 of lack lack of access. UM And you've provided a 3:08:03.840 --> 3:08:05.880 way using both kinds of this thing called a bio 3:08:06.000 --> 3:08:09.000 lab that people You've developed plans that people can build 3:08:09.000 --> 3:08:11.640 it for themselves in order to make this, and also 3:08:11.720 --> 3:08:15.599 using a three D printer, you can make UM an epipencil, 3:08:15.680 --> 3:08:18.280 which is a little less kind of a more analog version. 3:08:18.320 --> 3:08:20.680 I think, I guess you'd say, uh no, it's it's 3:08:20.800 --> 3:08:23.520 it's equivalent. It's equivalent. It works the same way. The 3:08:23.600 --> 3:08:28.119 things that are different about it that UM are critical. 3:08:28.200 --> 3:08:30.080 The first one that you mentioned, of course, is that 3:08:30.160 --> 3:08:33.400 you can you can build it for all over thirty 3:08:33.400 --> 3:08:37.760 dollars US, and you can reload it for about three dollars, 3:08:38.959 --> 3:08:45.480 unlike the EpiPen which is I think it's about fifty 3:08:45.520 --> 3:08:48.720 dollars for yeah, UM, and that might be for a pair, 3:08:48.800 --> 3:08:55.680 but even so to UM. But the other two critical 3:08:55.760 --> 3:09:04.320 differences are that EpiPens are single you, so you can't 3:09:04.360 --> 3:09:08.480 test whether it's faulty or not until you use it, 3:09:09.920 --> 3:09:13.320 and there have been a lot of failures. In fact, 3:09:13.360 --> 3:09:16.640 there was a big EpiPen recall a bunch of years ago, 3:09:17.240 --> 3:09:21.200 and there were just these tragic, tragic stories. Some guy 3:09:21.360 --> 3:09:25.400 had to watch his little kid die. He had had 3:09:25.400 --> 3:09:28.400 a pair of EpiPens. The kid went into shock. He 3:09:28.720 --> 3:09:30.960 used it, the thing failed. He brought the other one. 3:09:31.040 --> 3:09:33.040 The other one failed, and they're in the air and 3:09:33.120 --> 3:09:35.520 you can't land in fifteen minutes and the little kid died, 3:09:35.600 --> 3:09:38.160 which just and I'm sure there are dozens of dozens 3:09:38.200 --> 3:09:39.840 of stories like that that just happens to be one 3:09:39.840 --> 3:09:43.560 of the ones I know. So one of the things 3:09:43.640 --> 3:09:46.360 that's great about the epipencils because you're putting it together 3:09:46.400 --> 3:09:50.560 yourself and it only takes four parts, you can test it. 3:09:50.640 --> 3:09:53.320 You can make sure that it works as many times 3:09:53.360 --> 3:09:55.560 as you need to. You can dry running with saline 3:09:55.560 --> 3:09:58.000 and just double check that it does what it's supposed 3:09:58.040 --> 3:10:06.160 to UM, and so it's safer. So the fact that 3:10:06.200 --> 3:10:10.160 it's you can control yourself, you can reload it, and 3:10:10.240 --> 3:10:14.800 you can test it. All these things fix a lot 3:10:14.840 --> 3:10:19.600 of these immediate problems that come with and it still 3:10:19.680 --> 3:10:22.920 has the benefit that everybody wants from the EpiPen which 3:10:23.000 --> 3:10:28.400 is that it doesn't require um, you know, measurement or 3:10:30.000 --> 3:10:34.120 like knowing how deep to press the needle before you 3:10:34.160 --> 3:10:36.920 depress the plunger. All that happens automatically, and it happens 3:10:37.000 --> 3:10:40.280 very quickly. UM and yeah, we as you say, we've 3:10:40.280 --> 3:10:43.680 got a lot of pressed for that because essentially a 3:10:43.720 --> 3:10:47.000 good timing we've released at the same time that Heather 3:10:47.120 --> 3:10:50.520 Brush was lying to Congress about why they hit raised 3:10:50.560 --> 3:10:54.960 the price on the EpiPens and then so it was 3:10:55.000 --> 3:10:59.520 in the public eye. And and that's that's a huge 3:10:59.600 --> 3:11:02.720 one being able to produce that because that is I mean, 3:11:02.720 --> 3:11:06.480 there's a tremendous number of people who rely on UH 3:11:06.600 --> 3:11:10.360 EpiPens um and and I think the potential of that 3:11:10.400 --> 3:11:15.480 project is staggering. UM And there's some there's some you know, 3:11:15.520 --> 3:11:17.720 we when we talk about kind of the different people 3:11:17.720 --> 3:11:19.959 who are who are working on similar problems to you, 3:11:19.959 --> 3:11:21.720 there's also a group of people who are working on 3:11:22.360 --> 3:11:26.080 um cracking insulin, being able to produce insulin um. And yeah, 3:11:26.120 --> 3:11:29.080 the Open Insulin Project is an amazing group of people, 3:11:29.320 --> 3:11:35.879 incredibly important. They're yeah, they're working on mm hmm, probably 3:11:35.959 --> 3:11:39.480 the largest scale public health crisis. I mean, in terms 3:11:39.520 --> 3:11:42.440 of queries that we get, I think we get people 3:11:42.480 --> 3:11:46.959 asking about insulin more than anything else. And I always say, oh, yeah, 3:11:47.000 --> 3:11:49.440 they're very very bright people who already working around this. 3:11:49.560 --> 3:11:52.280 Go talk to the Open Insulin Um and and they're 3:11:52.320 --> 3:11:55.480 just amazing. I want to move on because I want 3:11:55.520 --> 3:11:59.439 to talk about kind of the more um philosophical dimensions 3:11:59.480 --> 3:12:01.120 of some of this. But before we get into that, 3:12:01.200 --> 3:12:03.959 i'd like to so, like, you know, one of the 3:12:03.959 --> 3:12:05.480 things you and I've been talking about a little bit 3:12:05.720 --> 3:12:09.240 behind the scenes is I am not a technically savvy person, 3:12:09.280 --> 3:12:11.840 but I'm I want to try and I'd like to 3:12:11.879 --> 3:12:14.320 be able to like produce an epipencil. I want to 3:12:14.360 --> 3:12:17.280 like understand this it kind of and and potentially be 3:12:17.320 --> 3:12:21.160 able to contribute UM in a more direct sense, in 3:12:21.200 --> 3:12:25.080 part because I'm curious, like how how doable actually is this? For? 3:12:25.360 --> 3:12:27.560 I consider myself a pretty normal person when it comes 3:12:27.560 --> 3:12:30.879 to like technical understanding, right, Like, I'm reasonably handy, but 3:12:30.959 --> 3:12:33.760 I'm not I'm not a chemist, I'm not a I'm 3:12:33.800 --> 3:12:36.520 not a I haven't really I have no I have 3:12:36.560 --> 3:12:39.360 no prior experience three D printing or anything like that. 3:12:39.840 --> 3:12:43.680 What is what is required in terms of financial investment 3:12:43.720 --> 3:12:45.920 and what is kind of your general estimate in terms 3:12:45.920 --> 3:12:49.280 of time to get up to, you know, a kind 3:12:49.280 --> 3:12:53.200 of the level where you can start learning how to 3:12:53.200 --> 3:12:56.520 do some of this stuff. I think the barrier to 3:12:56.680 --> 3:13:00.280 entry is pretty low, depending on how you want to start. 3:13:02.040 --> 3:13:05.480 As I said, there are different avenues to doing it. 3:13:06.080 --> 3:13:08.640 You can, of course, one of the one of the 3:13:08.720 --> 3:13:11.720 greatest hacks. If if anybody listening this doesn't pick up 3:13:11.720 --> 3:13:14.800 anything else, here's the best hack in terms of getting 3:13:14.879 --> 3:13:18.480 access to medication. You have a medication you don't have 3:13:18.560 --> 3:13:22.119 access to for whatever reason, Assuming it comes in a 3:13:22.120 --> 3:13:26.400 capsule form, you can nearly go to a chemical supplier, 3:13:26.920 --> 3:13:31.240 purchase the active pharmaceutical ingredient, wait out, put it into 3:13:31.240 --> 3:13:34.560 a capsule, and you've made your medication. That's a very 3:13:34.600 --> 3:13:37.600 simple thing, you know, that takes nothing more than being 3:13:37.600 --> 3:13:39.640 able to read a scale and scooping powder into a 3:13:39.680 --> 3:13:44.880 little you know, capsules. The next step up, there are 3:13:45.879 --> 3:13:47.600 things that you can do. They're little more involved. If 3:13:47.600 --> 3:13:49.520 you want to build an epy pencil, again, this is 3:13:50.959 --> 3:13:53.640 three or four parts, depending on how you count. You 3:13:53.760 --> 3:13:58.560 take a needle from one syringe needle set on, you 3:13:58.600 --> 3:14:01.000 put it onto a different engineel set, and then you 3:14:01.040 --> 3:14:04.440 put it into this auto injector this design for neil 3:14:04.480 --> 3:14:08.560 phobic diabetics. You load it with the up and ron 3:14:09.240 --> 3:14:14.000 and you close it up and you're done. Then, if 3:14:14.000 --> 3:14:16.360 you want to step into this a little bit further, 3:14:16.600 --> 3:14:20.280 if something is so barriered for whatever reason that you 3:14:20.360 --> 3:14:25.080 can't get the actual ingredient, then you might start messing 3:14:25.120 --> 3:14:28.760 around with our micro lab. The micro lab, I would say, 3:14:28.879 --> 3:14:33.520 probably takes around a hundred dollars US to build. Um it, 3:14:34.959 --> 3:14:39.080 but it's not super technical. Our latest version doesn't require 3:14:39.120 --> 3:14:43.039 any soldering. Everything snaps together, which is really nice. You 3:14:43.040 --> 3:14:46.880 can plug everything in. All the wires are just screw terminals, 3:14:46.879 --> 3:14:51.400 which is really convenient. UM. And it takes some time, 3:14:52.120 --> 3:14:57.199 and you do have to load some code, but we're 3:14:57.240 --> 3:15:02.560 looking to release a new set of documentation in the 3:15:02.640 --> 3:15:06.800 summer that will be very very stripped down of here's 3:15:06.800 --> 3:15:09.560 your bill of materials. You can order all of this stuff. 3:15:10.640 --> 3:15:14.320 Here's how you can put the disk image onto the 3:15:14.480 --> 3:15:17.000 SD card that you put in, and you should start 3:15:17.040 --> 3:15:23.240 it and it will wake up and work independently. UM. 3:15:23.240 --> 3:15:27.439 We had a video of our head hardware guy actually 3:15:27.520 --> 3:15:32.160 building the micro lab from just parts that we're sitting 3:15:32.320 --> 3:15:34.720 on lay out on a table, and I think all 3:15:34.720 --> 3:15:38.240 told it took him about forty five minutes. Will be 3:15:38.240 --> 3:15:41.560 a little bit longer, but again, like granted, this guy's 3:15:41.560 --> 3:15:45.560 a hardware specialist and he you know, designed it. So 3:15:46.000 --> 3:15:48.800 for somebody who's not done before, it might take an afternoon, 3:15:49.160 --> 3:15:53.400 but it's not. It's not a prohibitively long or involved 3:15:53.440 --> 3:15:56.640 project that you know, would take you weeks to put together, 3:15:56.879 --> 3:16:04.360 or any specialized under standing of you know, biomedical engineering 3:16:04.440 --> 3:16:08.200 or anything like that. Now, UM, I kind of want 3:16:08.200 --> 3:16:09.600 to move at this point because I think that gives 3:16:09.600 --> 3:16:12.560 people an idea of what's actually necessary and they can 3:16:12.600 --> 3:16:14.920 go to y'all's website, UM or look up you have 3:16:15.160 --> 3:16:17.680 plans on a get hub if they want to kind 3:16:17.680 --> 3:16:20.920 of look at what's what's involved and it's um some 3:16:21.040 --> 3:16:23.000 of it seems a little daunting to me, like look 3:16:23.080 --> 3:16:25.240 looking at the construction of the bio lab, But I'm 3:16:25.600 --> 3:16:27.440 that that's going to be a project that I'll be 3:16:27.480 --> 3:16:29.320 engaging in over the next couple of weeks, so I'll 3:16:29.400 --> 3:16:32.760 keep people updated on how I do there. UM. I 3:16:32.760 --> 3:16:36.000 want to move on to talk Michael about what you 3:16:36.080 --> 3:16:42.160 see as kind of them I don't know the the 3:16:42.160 --> 3:16:45.280 the potential from kind of a revolutionary perspective, from a 3:16:45.320 --> 3:16:49.760 perspective of actually building dual power of this project. And 3:16:49.760 --> 3:16:51.920 obviously you are and I think what would would be 3:16:51.959 --> 3:16:54.440 called the early stages of this idea of kind of 3:16:54.440 --> 3:17:01.359 democratizing and decentralizing the production of life saving medication. UM, 3:17:01.360 --> 3:17:03.119 although I guess you could argue in some ways it's 3:17:03.160 --> 3:17:05.840 kind of a return to more traditional attitudes about health 3:17:05.840 --> 3:17:09.039 care in a lot of ways. Yeah, there's a cyclic 3:17:09.120 --> 3:17:13.320 nature there, and in the sort of zend mind, beginner's mind, 3:17:13.360 --> 3:17:16.560 we'd like to think that the revolution is always in 3:17:16.600 --> 3:17:21.440 its beginning stages, right. UM. That to say, over the 3:17:21.480 --> 3:17:28.360 past decade, roughly looking at trying to find ways to 3:17:28.400 --> 3:17:35.320 give people more independent access that doesn't require infrastructure to 3:17:35.480 --> 3:17:45.480 medicines and medical technologies. The the hope really is to 3:17:46.040 --> 3:17:51.640 create a certain amount of cultural shift. I remember at 3:17:51.680 --> 3:17:56.320 one point a friend of mine, who as a business 3:17:56.320 --> 3:17:59.640 school graduate, asked me a very sort of like business 3:17:59.680 --> 3:18:04.320 school type question where he said, how would you measure 3:18:04.400 --> 3:18:09.560 success of your project? Um? And I said, well, we 3:18:09.680 --> 3:18:12.680 ceased to exist as an organization, and he kind of 3:18:12.720 --> 3:18:16.000 had this moment of like, what do you mean. We 3:18:16.000 --> 3:18:20.039 shouldn't be pushing this right. The ideas that eventually the 3:18:20.160 --> 3:18:26.160 concept of managing your own health is sufficiently normalized that 3:18:26.280 --> 3:18:30.240 it's not something that has to be explained between people. 3:18:30.320 --> 3:18:35.440 But somebody says, oh, yeah, I just I just did 3:18:35.520 --> 3:18:40.040 that up in my micro lab um. In the same 3:18:40.080 --> 3:18:43.760 way that when you look at the shift that happened 3:18:43.760 --> 3:18:50.520 between oh, you know, the mid eighties in the mid nineties, 3:18:51.280 --> 3:18:57.160 where computers were this strange, scary thing that was, you know, 3:18:57.200 --> 3:19:01.240 we're only accessible or usable by people who were very 3:19:01.240 --> 3:19:04.720 specialized something that you know, everybody knew about and everybody 3:19:04.800 --> 3:19:07.080 kind of had and everybody sort of used. And the 3:19:07.120 --> 3:19:11.000 same sort of thing that happened between the period of 3:19:11.160 --> 3:19:15.800 time I don't know, maybe ten twelve years ago and 3:19:16.160 --> 3:19:21.280 now with with three D printing, where like stereo lithography 3:19:21.280 --> 3:19:24.240 and rapid prototyping was again the specialized thing that a 3:19:24.240 --> 3:19:27.320 bunch of people who were essentially at the machine tool 3:19:27.360 --> 3:19:32.000 industry had started to spearhead, and now you say three printing, 3:19:32.000 --> 3:19:34.800 everybody knows what it means. In the same sort of way, 3:19:37.200 --> 3:19:39.640 I'd very much like to see a cultural shift where 3:19:41.640 --> 3:19:49.359 when somebody is unwell, that when discussions between people happened, 3:19:49.400 --> 3:19:51.920 that instead of the have you had that looked at, 3:19:52.800 --> 3:19:59.760 or you might instead here from somebody saying, well have 3:20:00.040 --> 3:20:03.800 you read up on that? You know, to see people 3:20:04.600 --> 3:20:10.080 actually engaged in their own health and not going through 3:20:10.080 --> 3:20:14.160 this very typical process of outsourcing responsibility. Now, it's not 3:20:14.200 --> 3:20:17.640 to say that like experts aren't good people with whom 3:20:17.640 --> 3:20:20.920 to consult, right, Yeah, we're not talking about replacing the 3:20:21.000 --> 3:20:25.120 idea of medical professionals who can help you understand what 3:20:25.200 --> 3:20:28.480 your health and diagnose and stuff like. Yeah, but there 3:20:28.560 --> 3:20:34.119 is again this drastic difference between going to a doctor 3:20:34.480 --> 3:20:37.240 and essentially just like throwing the problem on their desk 3:20:37.280 --> 3:20:41.160 and saying fixed it, call me when it's over, versus 3:20:41.480 --> 3:20:44.280 going to a doctor and saying, hey, I'd like to 3:20:44.320 --> 3:20:48.879 talk about this. I'd like to know more about what's 3:20:48.920 --> 3:20:54.040 wrong here, and i'd like to discuss what the options 3:20:54.120 --> 3:21:01.440 are and what seems best. Um that would be great 3:21:01.440 --> 3:21:05.240 on a lot of levels. And and then these questions 3:21:05.920 --> 3:21:11.240 of access to medication then become even more relevant because 3:21:12.080 --> 3:21:15.959 when you're talking with a doctor and the doctor says, okay, 3:21:16.000 --> 3:21:19.240 well we could try this therapy, but your insurance won't 3:21:19.280 --> 3:21:22.200 pay for it in three hundred thousand dollars, you can say, 3:21:22.280 --> 3:21:24.279 all right, well let's just do a little thought experiment 3:21:24.320 --> 3:21:26.240 and if that fell from a truck, what would I 3:21:26.280 --> 3:21:28.560 do with it? And then maybe you can go home 3:21:28.600 --> 3:21:31.120 and say, you know, I'll call you and let you 3:21:31.160 --> 3:21:39.240 know how it goes. I that's that's really my my grant, Hope, 3:21:39.280 --> 3:21:41.640 And there are so many different ways that can play out. 3:21:42.320 --> 3:21:45.520 In fact, I'll tell you a hilarious story in regards 3:21:45.560 --> 3:21:49.080 to this, which was in I guess it was when 3:21:49.080 --> 3:21:53.840 we presented it, Hope. UM. I called Martin Shakley's cell 3:21:53.840 --> 3:21:57.360 phone from stage to try and ask him what he 3:21:57.440 --> 3:22:01.400 thought about what we were doing, given that I was 3:22:01.440 --> 3:22:04.480 handing his drug out for free, UM and showing people 3:22:04.480 --> 3:22:07.520 how to make it. And he didn't answer the phone 3:22:07.520 --> 3:22:09.119 when I called him then, but he called me back 3:22:09.120 --> 3:22:14.879 a few hours later, which was really hilarious. We actually 3:22:14.959 --> 3:22:17.480 chatted for a while and the guys, I mean a 3:22:17.520 --> 3:22:22.879 little detached from reality, but he's he's no dummy, UM. 3:22:22.920 --> 3:22:25.280 And when I sort of described what we were trying 3:22:25.320 --> 3:22:30.040 to do with the micro lab, he had some interesting 3:22:30.040 --> 3:22:32.360 insights and he said, yeah, you know, one way I 3:22:32.360 --> 3:22:36.600 can imagine that working really well is if somebody with 3:22:37.280 --> 3:22:44.120 a little more knowledge of pharmaceutical medicine were too maybe 3:22:44.360 --> 3:22:47.879 build one of these and serve a small community. I 3:22:47.879 --> 3:22:49.879 think that could be very efficient. And I was like, 3:22:51.480 --> 3:22:57.039 that's a good thought. You Chiseling bastard um. Yeah, I 3:22:57.080 --> 3:22:59.440 mean that there's a degree which that's that's kind of 3:22:59.440 --> 3:23:02.680 how I see the most realistic potential. This is not 3:23:02.760 --> 3:23:05.200 every individual making all of their medicine, but kind of 3:23:05.240 --> 3:23:08.039 like you know we had during the fires last year, 3:23:08.120 --> 3:23:10.480 when when our local and state governments during the heat 3:23:10.480 --> 3:23:13.400 wave this year like completely shut the bed. We had 3:23:13.720 --> 3:23:16.680 different mutual aid collectives do things like we are providing 3:23:16.680 --> 3:23:18.680 people with like oh, it's a blizzard, We're providing people 3:23:18.680 --> 3:23:22.040 with firewood. We are providing people with cooling stations because 3:23:22.040 --> 3:23:23.720 of the heat. You know, we are providing people with 3:23:23.760 --> 3:23:25.680 they've just fled their houses. We have kits that have 3:23:26.160 --> 3:23:29.440 food and basic necessities so they can get through mutual 3:23:29.440 --> 3:23:31.240 aid collectives that are like, well, we are making we 3:23:31.320 --> 3:23:33.440 specialize and we can produce this and this and this 3:23:33.720 --> 3:23:35.879 medication like these three and we have and here's the 3:23:35.920 --> 3:23:38.320 information you can find online about our process. You know 3:23:38.360 --> 3:23:40.040 that we know what we're doing, and if you need 3:23:40.080 --> 3:23:41.960 these things, you let us know and we we get 3:23:42.000 --> 3:23:44.080 them to you. And here's different ways in which people 3:23:44.120 --> 3:23:46.000 can volunteer if you want to help engage in this 3:23:46.120 --> 3:23:49.080 mutual aid process, even if you're not someone who's going 3:23:49.120 --> 3:23:51.760 to be doing a lot of the technical stuff, but 3:23:51.840 --> 3:23:53.280 we need people to go pick up parts, So we 3:23:53.280 --> 3:23:55.120 need people to do this, and you can help us here. 3:23:55.720 --> 3:23:58.959 You know, I see a lot of potential. I think, yeah, yeah, 3:23:59.000 --> 3:24:00.680 And I think in a similar way, right, a lot 3:24:00.680 --> 3:24:03.320 of that sort of thing is already happening in other 3:24:03.440 --> 3:24:06.279 realms right where. It's the sort of thing where you 3:24:06.400 --> 3:24:09.640 might be building something, or you you see some project 3:24:09.680 --> 3:24:12.160 on GitHub or whatever, and some there are these STL 3:24:12.240 --> 3:24:14.680 files and you go, oh, gosh, well I don't know 3:24:14.800 --> 3:24:16.680 how to do that, but oh right, x y Z 3:24:16.800 --> 3:24:19.520 down the street as a three D printer. I'll go 3:24:19.600 --> 3:24:22.920 ask her. She's really good at making these things. And 3:24:22.959 --> 3:24:24.800 you say, hey, look, I have this thing. Would this 3:24:24.879 --> 3:24:28.160 be difficult to print? And with their experience, they kind 3:24:28.160 --> 3:24:30.840 of look at me like, I know that that shouldn't 3:24:30.840 --> 3:24:33.480 be too hard. Um, you know, I have some time 3:24:33.520 --> 3:24:35.680 this weekend, maybe I can make that for you. And 3:24:35.720 --> 3:24:38.720 in the same way, you say, hey, it looks like 3:24:38.879 --> 3:24:42.520 I seem to have this rare infection from whatever whatever, 3:24:42.720 --> 3:24:46.560 or I have this odd condition. Um, I wanted to 3:24:46.600 --> 3:24:50.160 try this medication because it might be really helpful, but 3:24:50.400 --> 3:24:52.959 it's not legal in this country. Do you think you 3:24:52.959 --> 3:24:55.680 can put this together again? You know, you call somebody 3:24:55.720 --> 3:24:59.360 and whoever's on the other lines says, oh, yeah, I 3:24:59.400 --> 3:25:01.360 have a micro a. I can try and put a 3:25:01.400 --> 3:25:03.400 program together for that and see if I can make 3:25:03.400 --> 3:25:05.960 it for you. That sort of thing, I think is 3:25:06.080 --> 3:25:11.640 a potentially really positive avenue for that sort of thing 3:25:11.680 --> 3:25:17.280 to proliferate and again eventually to have a cultural shift 3:25:17.440 --> 3:25:24.600 where the idea of medicine and medical technology not being 3:25:24.879 --> 3:25:29.760 something that is comes down from above from some authority, 3:25:30.640 --> 3:25:36.240 but instead is something that's managed by people who are 3:25:36.280 --> 3:25:38.960 part of your community, who you already trust. I mean, 3:25:38.959 --> 3:25:41.360 that's why going to a doctor is so scary. They 3:25:41.360 --> 3:25:44.440 seem to be the arbiter of your fate. They're going 3:25:44.480 --> 3:25:48.160 to tell you whether you're well or not. And and 3:25:48.240 --> 3:25:54.039 that is just the truth, and much better to have 3:25:54.200 --> 3:25:57.560 it where people are making up their own mind based 3:25:57.680 --> 3:26:01.920 on learning about their own health and consulting with people 3:26:02.640 --> 3:26:06.640 who can give them perspective. Um, and if there's more 3:26:06.680 --> 3:26:10.280 of that, and if it's closer to the person who's 3:26:10.400 --> 3:26:14.520 actually suffering, that I think will be on the whole 3:26:14.600 --> 3:26:19.240 much better. Yeah, it's this the and this gets tangled 3:26:19.280 --> 3:26:20.959 up in a lot of the more toxic things we've 3:26:20.959 --> 3:26:25.160 seen this year. But it's this this understanding that with 3:26:25.240 --> 3:26:29.560 any given problem, if individuals trying to solve that problem 3:26:29.680 --> 3:26:33.920 have more autonomy, and part of autonomy is knowledge, that's 3:26:34.320 --> 3:26:37.840 nearly always better. UM. The problem, of course is that 3:26:37.879 --> 3:26:39.760 like we we get into this situation, we are now 3:26:39.760 --> 3:26:43.160 where some people take, I'm take some people some people 3:26:43.320 --> 3:26:46.320 use I want to take control of my health care 3:26:46.400 --> 3:26:49.560 to you know, do stuff that's nonsense, And that brings 3:26:49.600 --> 3:26:52.080 us back to the question of like, yeah, you in 3:26:52.160 --> 3:26:54.680 for the quality of the information that you're getting is 3:26:54.800 --> 3:26:57.560 very important, right because if if you're if you if 3:26:58.040 --> 3:27:00.760 your research is some YouTube video that convinced you that 3:27:00.800 --> 3:27:03.640 you need to you know, take this this horse paste 3:27:03.680 --> 3:27:06.360 or something, then yeah, that's not good. But that doesn't 3:27:06.440 --> 3:27:10.040 change the fact that, like with food, like with with 3:27:10.120 --> 3:27:13.240 everything that you need to survive, the more of a 3:27:13.400 --> 3:27:19.080 role you have in understanding that, deciding what to do 3:27:19.080 --> 3:27:21.039 with that, understanding where it comes from and how it 3:27:21.120 --> 3:27:25.119 is produced. UM. Not just like not only is that 3:27:25.160 --> 3:27:27.240 I think more satisfying as a human, but it's it's 3:27:27.280 --> 3:27:34.760 also critical to to your well being. UM, it's critical 3:27:34.800 --> 3:27:38.480 to like on two levels, right on two levels, because 3:27:38.600 --> 3:27:46.600 not only when your health is taken from you, it 3:27:46.640 --> 3:27:49.960 doesn't deprive you of life, but it deprives you participating 3:27:50.480 --> 3:27:55.720 in any of the acts that make life meaningful. And 3:27:56.080 --> 3:27:58.960 part of that key thing that makes life meaningful is 3:27:59.320 --> 3:28:06.120 having a participatory role in the things that decide the 3:28:06.160 --> 3:28:10.520 trajectory of your life. And so when you go to 3:28:11.600 --> 3:28:16.240 the lengths of managing your own health, two things happen. 3:28:16.760 --> 3:28:21.040 First off, your health improves, assuming you've made good decisions 3:28:21.080 --> 3:28:26.040 and get lucky. But second, you're also having a participatory 3:28:26.200 --> 3:28:31.600 role in your life, and that makes life more meaningful. 3:28:32.240 --> 3:28:36.519 And it beyond just kind of the self actualization benefits 3:28:36.640 --> 3:28:39.920 from from a perspective of actually enabling people to participate 3:28:40.440 --> 3:28:43.960 in the move for radical change in our society. One 3:28:44.120 --> 3:28:46.760 necessary element of that to any of the kind of 3:28:46.760 --> 3:28:51.440 things that we need is a belief in your own 3:28:51.480 --> 3:28:55.840 agency and power. Um. And also and a freedom from 3:28:55.879 --> 3:28:59.120 the kind of fear that comes from feeling helpless. And 3:28:59.160 --> 3:29:02.240 there is I think probably no feeling worse in the 3:29:02.280 --> 3:29:07.160 world than feeling completely helpless about a treatable medical problem. Um. 3:29:07.200 --> 3:29:09.039 I mean, it's one thing I just went through my mom. 3:29:09.040 --> 3:29:11.039 When you get a disease where there's just nothing that 3:29:11.080 --> 3:29:13.320 science can do right, where like, yeah, you've got this 3:29:13.440 --> 3:29:16.199 cancer and there there ain't ship anybody has for you. 3:29:16.200 --> 3:29:20.480 You know, that's one kind of horrible, but I think 3:29:20.480 --> 3:29:23.760 it's a lot less terrible than you. I have this 3:29:23.840 --> 3:29:26.320 thing that we can deal with, but I either can't 3:29:26.320 --> 3:29:27.800 afford it or I don't know that I'll be able 3:29:27.800 --> 3:29:30.000 to afford it. I had a horrible I lost my 3:29:30.160 --> 3:29:33.360 job in my healthcare in seventeen and so did a 3:29:33.440 --> 3:29:35.200 person who was on my healthcare with me that I 3:29:35.240 --> 3:29:39.879 love very much. And I got this, you know, hired 3:29:39.959 --> 3:29:42.360 here in healthcare a couple of years later. And it 3:29:42.480 --> 3:29:47.200 happened that a month before the the I started my 3:29:47.240 --> 3:29:49.800 health care at this new job, this person who was 3:29:49.840 --> 3:29:52.560 on my healthcare with me um got diagnosed with a 3:29:52.600 --> 3:29:54.920 brain tumor, and thankfully not a cancerous one, but the 3:29:54.920 --> 3:29:56.880 one that they had to take medication for that would 3:29:56.879 --> 3:30:00.200 have been would have bankrupted us, you know, with out 3:30:01.040 --> 3:30:04.400 the without insurance, and thankfully it worked out fine. The 3:30:04.440 --> 3:30:07.120 timing worked out okay. But there's not a week that 3:30:07.160 --> 3:30:10.160 goes by that I don't and it it it's it's 3:30:10.640 --> 3:30:13.400 it is something that makes you less willing to take risks, 3:30:13.480 --> 3:30:17.440 less willing to participate in in things that because you 3:30:17.520 --> 3:30:19.000 have in the back of your head, well, I have 3:30:19.080 --> 3:30:21.080 to I have to keep this job, I have to 3:30:21.120 --> 3:30:24.840 keep this insurance, I have to y yeah that. And 3:30:25.360 --> 3:30:28.560 that's another thing that I find so heartbreaking. There's so 3:30:28.600 --> 3:30:34.039 many people that I've I've met totally outside of my 3:30:34.120 --> 3:30:39.080 activism who lament about working a job that they hate, 3:30:39.120 --> 3:30:42.920 and I say, gosh, for you know, I mean, you 3:30:43.240 --> 3:30:46.360 consider just bailing on it and looking for something else 3:30:46.360 --> 3:30:51.279 and trying something else. And they have this total paralysis 3:30:52.480 --> 3:30:56.920 of saying, but if I quit my job, I won't 3:30:56.959 --> 3:31:01.640 have healthcare m hm and and and mind you like, 3:31:02.680 --> 3:31:07.840 these were people who were incredibly healthy. These were not 3:31:07.920 --> 3:31:12.440 people who had any regular visits to healthcare. They're just 3:31:12.480 --> 3:31:15.240 scared that if something comes up, they want people to 3:31:15.280 --> 3:31:18.920 handle it. And it's it's a perfectly well grounded fear. 3:31:19.280 --> 3:31:24.080 But as you point out, what this does is it 3:31:24.120 --> 3:31:29.199 works as this sort of shadow oppressive mechanism to keep 3:31:29.320 --> 3:31:35.480 people from exploring, trying things, as you say, taking risks, 3:31:35.560 --> 3:31:42.360 or or just doing things that that don't involve a 3:31:42.360 --> 3:31:46.920 an optimization toward a stable state of maybe just like yeah, 3:31:46.959 --> 3:31:49.400 maybe I'll start a small business and yeah, it probably 3:31:49.440 --> 3:31:52.520 will fail, but that will be a cool adventure. And 3:31:53.040 --> 3:31:56.199 most people, you know, so many people, maybe not most, 3:31:56.240 --> 3:32:01.840 but many, many people, um get just terrified into this 3:32:01.959 --> 3:32:06.840 state of inertial paralysis. Yeah, and it contributes to people 3:32:06.879 --> 3:32:09.280 being afraid to take to the street to protest the 3:32:09.280 --> 3:32:11.840 police because maybe they get arrested and maybe they get fired, 3:32:11.879 --> 3:32:14.640 and then you know, maybe their kid can't afford their Like, 3:32:14.680 --> 3:32:17.840 there's a thousand ways. I think, honestly, the fear of 3:32:18.000 --> 3:32:21.480 losing your health care is in some ways as great 3:32:21.640 --> 3:32:24.800 a greater counter revolutionary force than any law enforcement agency 3:32:24.840 --> 3:32:27.120 could hope to be, because the fear is so much 3:32:27.160 --> 3:32:32.080 more immediate to so many people. Nobody talks about that, 3:32:32.440 --> 3:32:34.920 And thank you so much for mentioning it, because it's 3:32:34.959 --> 3:32:37.880 something that like, oftentimes I try to bring up when 3:32:38.720 --> 3:32:42.160 I'm discussing things in public for and and oftentimes people 3:32:42.240 --> 3:32:43.840 kind of raise an eyebrow and me and be like, 3:32:44.120 --> 3:32:46.080 that's what's the big deal, And I'm like, no, no no, Like, 3:32:46.360 --> 3:32:49.720 if you look two layers deep, there's something that's really 3:32:49.760 --> 3:32:58.040 working against people being able to exercise protests, and it's, uh, 3:32:58.080 --> 3:33:02.240 it's it's it's this really link terrifying force that seems 3:33:02.280 --> 3:33:07.879 to underlie everything. And if you could alleviate that, if 3:33:07.879 --> 3:33:10.640 you could get to the point where people are like, yeah, 3:33:10.640 --> 3:33:13.080 the hell with it, you know, I don't need a 3:33:13.280 --> 3:33:17.279 job to take care of me, then all of a sudden, 3:33:17.640 --> 3:33:23.800 so many possibilities just blossomed in the mind. Yeah, if 3:33:23.879 --> 3:33:25.840 you have like it, say, if you're a parent who 3:33:25.879 --> 3:33:30.240 has a child with you know who, who's insolent dependent. Uh, 3:33:30.400 --> 3:33:33.440 there's not a lot of difference in my mind between 3:33:33.560 --> 3:33:36.480 the fact that between someone holding a gun to your 3:33:36.480 --> 3:33:39.120 head and your boss being able to fire you and 3:33:39.120 --> 3:33:41.760 take away your your kids access to that insulent there's 3:33:41.760 --> 3:33:46.360 not a tremendous moral difference. To me. Um, I'd say 3:33:46.400 --> 3:33:49.640 getting a gun to your head is actually more likely 3:33:49.680 --> 3:33:54.160 to survive that it's less inevitable. You could talk your 3:33:54.200 --> 3:33:57.200 way out of that, and yeah, I mean whatever, but 3:33:57.320 --> 3:33:59.440 there are any number of things that might go wrong there. 3:33:59.480 --> 3:34:02.760 But if somebody takes away your insulin, that's the end 3:34:02.800 --> 3:34:06.199 of the story. Yeah, I guess the more salient point 3:34:06.240 --> 3:34:09.240 than the comparison issues. They're both acts of violence, and 3:34:09.280 --> 3:34:11.800 in every way that's meaningful, I think they're both acts 3:34:11.800 --> 3:34:15.320 of violence. Well, and one way that when I reil 3:34:15.640 --> 3:34:20.000 against intellectual property as a concept and intellectual property law, 3:34:20.640 --> 3:34:23.320 the example that I give is they say, if somebody 3:34:23.320 --> 3:34:26.680 were dying and you knew how to save them, would 3:34:26.680 --> 3:34:31.320 you ever not tell them how and just watch them die? Say, 3:34:31.600 --> 3:34:33.840 oh no, that idea belongs to me, and I'm not 3:34:33.879 --> 3:34:37.880 going to share unless you pay me. Like no human 3:34:38.040 --> 3:34:42.240 being that I think I've ever heard of would do that. 3:34:43.000 --> 3:34:49.360 And yet this happens every day because we've sort of 3:34:49.400 --> 3:34:54.560 carried these questions of copyright into patents and despite the 3:34:54.600 --> 3:34:56.600 fact that they are hundreds of years old and not 3:34:56.959 --> 3:35:02.200 applicable anymore, assuming they were ever applicable, and people just 3:35:02.280 --> 3:35:05.120 die because people say, oh, well, we can make more 3:35:05.160 --> 3:35:07.920 money if we do it this way. There's a fascinating 3:35:08.920 --> 3:35:11.200 thing going on there when you when you really drill 3:35:11.240 --> 3:35:13.080 into that idea, because I suspect there are a lot 3:35:13.080 --> 3:35:17.920 of people who have who are are integral in propping 3:35:18.000 --> 3:35:21.280 up this system, both of kind of medical intellectual property 3:35:21.320 --> 3:35:23.400 and of just like the pharmaceutical industry, the way that 3:35:23.400 --> 3:35:26.160 it works people in politics, huge numbers of people who 3:35:26.200 --> 3:35:29.720 are integral in some facet of keeping that going, who 3:35:29.760 --> 3:35:33.400 also were they to see an individual and immediate medical distress, 3:35:33.480 --> 3:35:37.280 would never think of like try getting their debit card 3:35:37.400 --> 3:35:40.600 number or whatever, like asking them would would without thinking 3:35:40.640 --> 3:35:43.240 attempt because that's what people do. And it's I mean, 3:35:43.240 --> 3:35:44.720 this is where we get into kind of some of 3:35:44.720 --> 3:35:49.840 these more philosophical anarchist ideas about what hierarchy does and 3:35:49.840 --> 3:35:53.760 what these structures do, because structures enable people to participate 3:35:53.800 --> 3:35:57.560 in evil that they never would as an individual. Um. Yeah, 3:35:57.600 --> 3:36:02.160 there's this easy route that many easy routes that pop 3:36:02.280 --> 3:36:07.480 up that allow people or force I should say force 3:36:07.600 --> 3:36:11.560 people to be displaced from their humanity in that sort 3:36:11.600 --> 3:36:15.360 of way where, yes, of course, you you help somebody 3:36:15.520 --> 3:36:19.280 up off of subway tracks if they've fallen. Yes, of course, 3:36:19.360 --> 3:36:23.160 if somebody were drowning, you drag them out and save them. 3:36:23.280 --> 3:36:27.240 And yet, just because it's a degree removed and it's 3:36:27.480 --> 3:36:32.199 mediated by an agency, suddenly it's so easy to forget 3:36:32.320 --> 3:36:37.320 and ignore and be sort of complicit. And yeah, and 3:36:37.360 --> 3:36:40.640 I just to go back around to what four Thieves 3:36:40.720 --> 3:36:43.039 is doing and what y'all are doing. It's one of 3:36:43.080 --> 3:36:47.480 the few projects going on right now that fits what 3:36:47.640 --> 3:36:51.680 my idealistic nineteen year old brain thought the Internet would 3:36:51.720 --> 3:36:53.760 be sixteen fifteen, like when I when it was when 3:36:53.760 --> 3:36:56.640 things were newer and a little less were like, oh, 3:36:56.760 --> 3:36:58.760 this is like one of these days, Well this kind 3:36:58.760 --> 3:37:02.560 of ship's going to happen. Um, And that is I think, 3:37:02.600 --> 3:37:05.640 I mean, that's that's not without value from again a 3:37:05.680 --> 3:37:10.400 revolutionary perspective, the fact that it is pretty rad you know. Well, 3:37:10.440 --> 3:37:13.080 I mean, I will not deny the fact that it 3:37:13.120 --> 3:37:17.800 feels good, you know there. I think that I think 3:37:17.800 --> 3:37:21.640 that we all grow up with that sort of hope 3:37:21.680 --> 3:37:25.520 and belief that we were gonna open these new doors 3:37:25.560 --> 3:37:27.680 and there were going to be these new possibilities and 3:37:27.840 --> 3:37:31.640 things that we have been reading about in science fiction. 3:37:31.920 --> 3:37:35.680 We're going to become real and and there's there's a 3:37:35.760 --> 3:37:41.640 great satisfaction in not just witnessing your childhood dreams become realities, 3:37:41.640 --> 3:37:44.640 but actually, you know, having a hand in it. Uh, 3:37:44.640 --> 3:37:47.600 It's there's there's something quite satisfying about that. I will 3:37:48.440 --> 3:37:52.560 I will admit, well, I think that's a pretty good 3:37:52.640 --> 3:37:54.720 point to close out on today. I don't need to 3:37:54.760 --> 3:37:57.280 take up too much more of your time right now, Michael. 3:37:57.320 --> 3:37:59.520 But but as I told people, I'm going to be 3:38:00.320 --> 3:38:02.200 I'm gonna be trying to get into some of this 3:38:02.280 --> 3:38:06.720 because I find it just both fascinating and incredibly hopeful. Um, 3:38:06.760 --> 3:38:10.680 in a world where it seems like, uh, there are 3:38:10.720 --> 3:38:14.360 constantly forces conspiring to strip people of their ability to 3:38:14.360 --> 3:38:17.800 take control of critical aspects of their lives, you and 3:38:17.959 --> 3:38:20.760 your your colleagues in this are trying to give people 3:38:21.760 --> 3:38:26.480 opportunities to take some some power back for themselves, and 3:38:26.520 --> 3:38:31.720 I just think that's it's pretty dope. Thank you so much. Yeah, 3:38:31.800 --> 3:38:34.320 and see your listeners. If there are people out there 3:38:34.400 --> 3:38:36.920 who like what we're doing, you want to support the project, 3:38:37.760 --> 3:38:41.440 please go find somebody who needs your help but doesn't 3:38:41.520 --> 3:38:45.000 deserve it, and then go help them anyway. Yeah. Yeah, 3:38:45.040 --> 3:38:48.640 that's always a good thing to do. Um, Michael, anything else, 3:38:48.640 --> 3:38:51.200 any like a thing else you want to kind of 3:38:51.280 --> 3:38:54.120 put This is normally the section where people plug websites 3:38:54.240 --> 3:38:56.440 or projects or anything. You've got anything in particularly you 3:38:56.440 --> 3:39:00.760 want to throw out there right now. Uh sure, we're 3:39:00.840 --> 3:39:04.320 hoping to do a bunch of big releases in the summer, um, 3:39:04.440 --> 3:39:08.720 so look for those. In the meantime. We're always looking 3:39:08.720 --> 3:39:12.320 for help. So if you're out there and you'd like 3:39:12.440 --> 3:39:16.640 to be assisted in the project, uh, please get in touch. 3:39:16.720 --> 3:39:19.560 There's the contact us page on the website and by 3:39:19.560 --> 3:39:22.119 the way, this do not have to be a technical 3:39:22.160 --> 3:39:25.680 person we're looking for currently, we're looking for writers. We 3:39:25.720 --> 3:39:27.760 have a lot of documentation that we need to do, 3:39:27.879 --> 3:39:30.959 so if you're out there and you have you know, 3:39:31.879 --> 3:39:37.440 background in in language, then that would be great. If 3:39:37.680 --> 3:39:40.800 if you're somebody who feels that you're entirely without skills, 3:39:41.040 --> 3:39:44.440 please get in touch. We have any number of endless 3:39:44.480 --> 3:39:47.039 small tasks that just need to be taken care of 3:39:47.040 --> 3:39:50.039 because we don't have enough people. So if you'd like 3:39:50.120 --> 3:39:52.879 to participate, we'd love to have you. Please get in 3:39:52.959 --> 3:39:57.200 touch and in the meantime, keep each other healthy, keep 3:39:57.240 --> 3:40:01.160 each other. Thank you so much, Michael, thanks so much 3:40:01.160 --> 3:40:15.520 for having me. Hey, we'll be back Monday with more 3:40:15.560 --> 3:40:18.240 episodes every week from now until the heat death of 3:40:18.240 --> 3:40:21.039 the Universe. It Could Happen Here is a production of 3:40:21.040 --> 3:40:23.959 cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, 3:40:24.080 --> 3:40:26.520 visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check 3:40:26.600 --> 3:40:28.840 us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 3:40:28.959 --> 3:40:32.000 or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources 3:40:32.000 --> 3:40:34.560 for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone 3:40:34.600 --> 3:40:38.960 Media dot com. Slash sources thanks for listening. Conquer your 3:40:39.000 --> 3:40:42.240 New Year's resolutions. 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