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Speaker 1: dot org, brought to you by the AD Council. Hey, everybody,

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Speaker 1: Robert Evans here and I wanted to let you know

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Speaker 1: this is a compilation episode. So every episode of the

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Speaker 1: week that just happened is here in one convenient and

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Speaker 1: with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to

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Speaker 1: in a long stretch if you want. If you've been

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Speaker 1: listening to the episodes every day this week, there's gonna

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Speaker 1: be nothing new here for you, but you can make

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Speaker 1: your own decisions. Welcome everyone to the It Could Happening

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Speaker 1: a podcast. My name is said Andrew, and I'll be

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Speaker 1: a host as we talk about politics stuff with me.

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Speaker 1: Today is Garrison Hello, and Christopher Hello, and Sufi Hi.

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Speaker 1: And today we will be tackling or rather, we'll be

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Speaker 1: taking a trip to the anarchist activism in Latin America

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Speaker 1: with a specifies more. But first we need to get

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Speaker 1: into some context here. The first organization to promote the

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Speaker 1: concept of a specifies MOO was the Federation Anarchista Uruguaya

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Speaker 1: or the FAU, which is founded in nineteen fifty six

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Speaker 1: by anarchist Milton's who embraced the idea of an organization

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Speaker 1: there was specifically anarchist, but those who don't know, not

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Speaker 1: long after, rather two decades after six UM, the U

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Speaker 1: s instore the dictatorship in Uruguay. The lasted from nine

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Speaker 1: the FA you survived that dictatorship and went on to

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Speaker 1: establish connections with other South American anarchists re lutionaries. So

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Speaker 1: they helped to support the founding of the FAA Anarchista

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Speaker 1: Gaosha or fer g I don't know if I'm pronounced

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Speaker 1: that correctly, the Federal Anarchista KOLA and the Ferresha and

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Speaker 1: Arkista the Rio de Genero or the arch in their

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Speaker 1: respective regions of Brazil. And they also helped to found

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Speaker 1: the argentinean organization n as Alka, which means rebel. While

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Speaker 1: only coming onto stage in Latin America within the last

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Speaker 1: few decades. The ideas that really make up A specifies

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Speaker 1: more Tasha a historic threat that's really run through the

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Speaker 1: anarchist movement internationally since the beginning. UM. It may as

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Speaker 1: we get into like what is and stuff, it may

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Speaker 1: sound very similar to platform is UM. Are you all

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Speaker 1: familiar with that current? Yeah? I'm familiar with platforms a

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Speaker 1: little bit, but we can probably, I don't know, explain

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Speaker 1: it for the people at at at home who are

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Speaker 1: not as who do not spend as much time thinking

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Speaker 1: about old, old, old anarchist terms, right right right, so

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Speaker 1: their generic listener or viewer or whatever UM platform is.

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Speaker 1: UM began with a document those written in nine by

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Speaker 1: the former Peasant Army leader Nestor Mark now either Met

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Speaker 1: and other militants of the Yellow Truda or Workers Cause group.

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Speaker 1: They published a document called Organizational Platform of the Libertarian Communists,

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Speaker 1: and it was written in response to well being exiled

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Speaker 1: from the Russian Revolution UM and having to struggle really

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Speaker 1: to find their foots in after the Bolsheviks turn the

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Speaker 1: workers Soviets into instruments of one party rule. UM. So

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Speaker 1: the Power Space group did truder. They really criticized the

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Speaker 1: anarchist movement for a lack of organization. So they proposed

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Speaker 1: an alternative that is controversial to some anarchists, but it's

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Speaker 1: essentially a general union of anarchists based on anarchist communism

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Speaker 1: that would strive for theoretical and tactical unity and a

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Speaker 1: focus on class struggle and labor unions. Obviously platform is UM.

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Speaker 1: Like all political ideas, it's not a static you know,

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Speaker 1: the world has progressed sickness significantly in a century, so UM.

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Speaker 1: While there is an emphasis and workers struggle and class struggle. UM.

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Speaker 1: When he speak to most platforms today, I would say, UM,

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Speaker 1: obviously I don't have stats on that. I would say

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Speaker 1: most platforms can recognize that, you know, the no war

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Speaker 1: with the class war is a bit reductive. Um. I've

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Speaker 1: also noticed, actually that platforms has been getting a bit

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Speaker 1: more popularity lately. I don't know if it's just me

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Speaker 1: and my perception, but I don't know if you all

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Speaker 1: seen that I have. I've not seen tons of it here.

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Speaker 1: A lot of the type of anarchism I'm around, or

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Speaker 1: at least see is is not is not in this vein.

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Speaker 1: But most most of the stuff I see is like

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Speaker 1: around UM, like the kind of like live anarchy type

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Speaker 1: kind of strains UM and more individualists. Right. But that's

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Speaker 1: just I think a very like Pacific Northwest specific thing

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Speaker 1: that the anarchists here just kind of generally trend in

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Speaker 1: that direction. So I'm not sure what it's literally like

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Speaker 1: across like this country in other places around the world. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, I know, I know, I've definitely seen it

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Speaker 1: especially I think I think it's it's I don't know,

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Speaker 1: almost like it's bigger a few years ago. But back

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Speaker 1: like seen there is a big spike a black Rose

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Speaker 1: um serious group for a while. And yeah, people who

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Speaker 1: like called themselves like anarcho communists or anarcho syndicalists kind

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Speaker 1: of generally swam in this general ocean. Yeah, I definitely

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Speaker 1: saw that as a bigger thing in than now, at

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Speaker 1: least like locally from my area. And I think I

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Speaker 1: will say, yeah, the blacks people, a lot of them,

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Speaker 1: like very very specifically were specifi based on a lot

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Speaker 1: of it was based on like people who had like

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Speaker 1: experiences with a specifics various ways, right, right, Yeah, Because

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Speaker 1: I was actually just about to say, I think that

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Speaker 1: black Rose is more a specificity than Platformist. But of

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Speaker 1: course there is you know, a lot of overlap between

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Speaker 1: these two currents. Right. Um, As for my experience with

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Speaker 1: like plat with some and stuff, have seen um discussions

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Speaker 1: of it happening more. I mean, that's all I can

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Speaker 1: really see that I've seen, Um I have you ever

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Speaker 1: read once? But at least if discussions are happening the

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Speaker 1: likelihood of things coming out of it might be a

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Speaker 1: bit In Greece, I guess another current that has been

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Speaker 1: part of the anarchist milieu, psycheist wave whatever is organizational dualism,

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Speaker 1: which came out to the nineteen twenties Italian anarchist movement.

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Speaker 1: So they used the tomb to describe involvements of anarchists

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Speaker 1: both as members of anarchists specific political organizations and also

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Speaker 1: as militants in the labor movement. In Spain, the Friends

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Speaker 1: of Druti group emaged to oppose the Gradual Reviews cell

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Speaker 1: the Smash Revolution, and they also ended up emulating some

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Speaker 1: of the ideas of the platform by criticizing you know,

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Speaker 1: cnt F phase, c ant f aiys gradual reformism and

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Speaker 1: collaboration with republican government. Um, So the spars of war

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Speaker 1: and stuff. You know, there's a lot of forces that

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Speaker 1: play and we're gonna get into now, but it is,

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Speaker 1: I would say, as a side note, important to recognize

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Speaker 1: that there is no model it when it comes to

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Speaker 1: like these sort of civil wars and historical events. Um,

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Speaker 1: you really have to look at things in context, and

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Speaker 1: you know, it's not trying to strip them away from

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Speaker 1: the goings on at the time. Also, the Chinese anarchist

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Speaker 1: movement of the nineteen tens um advocated for simil ideas.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to try to pronounce the name of the group,

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Speaker 1: hopefully don't get castled, but it's the who Shuang Fu

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Speaker 1: Kongshan Jui Tong. She's a way, I think, which is

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Speaker 1: the Society of Anarchists Communist Comrades. And yeah, they advocated

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Speaker 1: for a lot of similar ideas. So there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of different currents around the world influenced by you know,

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Speaker 1: the historic conditions, but the general thread that you know,

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Speaker 1: anarchists need to get together and work as a unit

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Speaker 1: is you know what's thrust in it right and specifies

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Speaker 1: more is just a fresh continuation of this threat of

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Speaker 1: this trend. So what is what is the specifies more exactly?

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Speaker 1: The three key concepts UM that I see emphasized again

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Speaker 1: and again. One the need for specifically anarchists organization built

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Speaker 1: around a unity of ideas and practice. Two the use

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Speaker 1: of this specifically anarchist organize san to theorize and develop

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Speaker 1: strategic political and organizing work. And three active involvement in

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Speaker 1: and building of autonomous and popular social movements, which is

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Speaker 1: described as the process of social institution, so kind of

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Speaker 1: core to the whole specificity current is which is rather

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Speaker 1: anti tectical some of the trends that I've seen in

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Speaker 1: the past couple of years. It's sort of a rejection

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Speaker 1: of this left unity idea, right, this idea that there

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Speaker 1: can be these this sort of big tent organization that

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Speaker 1: can somehow establish all these different visions simultaneously. Right. So

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Speaker 1: a specificity reject the idea of just unity for unity's

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Speaker 1: sake because they feel it boils down to sort of

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Speaker 1: Louist common denominate to kind of wishy washy politics. They

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Speaker 1: feel that when unity is preferred at all costs, it

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Speaker 1: leaves very little room for unified action or developed political discussion.

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Speaker 1: In fact, in my experience, when you have like a

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Speaker 1: lot of political heterogene um, there tends to be a

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Speaker 1: lot of unproductive drama lack of better word. Obviously, people

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Speaker 1: of different political stripes should work together um, and there's

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Speaker 1: no like harm in that. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: when it comes to certain types of organizations, having a

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Speaker 1: sense of ideological unity is I would say pretty important,

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Speaker 1: as you know, you don't want to have all these

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Speaker 1: different groups constantly butting heads for all these different visions.

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Speaker 1: You know, you want to have at least some sense

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Speaker 1: that we're moving in sync. Right, So you're not going

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Speaker 1: to have some people who are trying to establish social

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Speaker 1: democracy and some people who are trying to get like

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Speaker 1: this workers state quote and quote, or you know, people

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Speaker 1: who just want I don't know, like a higher minimum reach. Right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, everyone's on a different stage of their political journey.

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Speaker 1: But what specificitys try to emphasize is that while we

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Speaker 1: can work within these larger social movements, um, it's important

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Speaker 1: that artists specifically come together to try to shape those

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Speaker 1: movements in an organized way. And I'll explain because it

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Speaker 1: kind of sounds a bit like vanguardism for some people,

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Speaker 1: this idea that you know, these this cabal of like

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Speaker 1: revolutionaries are trying to manipulate things behind the scenes. But um,

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Speaker 1: really what specificitys argue is that and I guess need

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Speaker 1: a space. They need space for like common strategy and

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Speaker 1: reflection and collective responsibility and you know a place to

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Speaker 1: discuss plans and build trust and share analysis and you know,

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Speaker 1: put together short and long term goals all that jazz. Um,

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Speaker 1: So will the Specificity do reach out to and work

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Speaker 1: with social movements regardless of whether they fit this code

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Speaker 1: and code anarchist purity test um. And I see that

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Speaker 1: with my tongue planted firmly and cheek of course, um.

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Speaker 1: They want to make sure that they can sue still

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Speaker 1: as an active minority, so that these movements aren't diluted.

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Speaker 1: And so I noticed IM like throwing out a lot

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Speaker 1: of different woods and freezers and ideas, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: things like ideological unity and the need for sort of

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Speaker 1: a consensus within the group. Um. And speaking of I've

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Speaker 1: spoken about consensus on my channel before, so I have

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Speaker 1: a breakdown on it people to check out if they're like, um,

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Speaker 1: I was spoke of unified strategy, right, so you're not

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Speaker 1: just joking around. You actually have mapped out to the strategy,

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Speaker 1: like for example, Black socialists in America. They aren't like

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Speaker 1: a specifically a specificity or to my knowledge, but you

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Speaker 1: can see um that they have like a unified, like

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Speaker 1: clearly leader strategy and they're making moves to make it

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Speaker 1: to achieve it, and they're very public about those moves, right. Um.

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Speaker 1: I also I want to emphasize, of course, and the

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Speaker 1: specifies more the whole idea of this active minority. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's not just a bunch of like it sounds like

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Speaker 1: a passive book club, right. And a specificity group is

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Speaker 1: a group of people who are passionate about you know

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Speaker 1: this cause um, and obviously, passion people have this habit

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Speaker 1: of before they can more than they can chew. Right.

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Speaker 1: So what I would advise like a specificity and specificity

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Speaker 1: judgment adjacent groups and really just organizations in general, is

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Speaker 1: that keep your size in mind, keep achievable goals within sight,

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Speaker 1: because if you don't, you know, it's very easy to

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Speaker 1: burn out very quickly. Yeah. Um. With the specificity groups,

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Speaker 1: it's important that they understand the responsibility, but also that

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Speaker 1: they understand their limits. Lastly, and very importantly, social institution,

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Speaker 1: I think is one of the most important parts for

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Speaker 1: specifies more. And I think even if you don't take

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Speaker 1: anything away from like a specificity specifies more, you at

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Speaker 1: the very least like implement social institution or at least

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Speaker 1: concepts within social institution into organizing right Because obviously, um,

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Speaker 1: and I guess a kind of fewer number. But what

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Speaker 1: social institution tries to point out, I guess, or tries

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Speaker 1: to develop within a movement. It's just awareness that the

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Speaker 1: people who are making these moves from organizing and whatnot,

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Speaker 1: that they don't relinquish their power to like other figures

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Speaker 1: or forces or parties or whatever the case may be. Right, Um,

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Speaker 1: social institutions that in the belief that the oppressed of

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Speaker 1: the most revolutionary sector of society and the seed of

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Speaker 1: future revolutionary transformation of society lies already in these classes

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Speaker 1: and social groupings. So it doesn't mean social institution doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean like acting within single issue advocacy campaigns or you know,

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Speaker 1: like trying to take over um people's existing struggles. It

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Speaker 1: means getting involved in daily fights and daily struggles people

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Speaker 1: to better their own conditions. It means, you know, connecting

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Speaker 1: with workers, connecting with immigrants, connecting across neighborhoods, working towards

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Speaker 1: racial liberation, working within students struggles and tenant struggles. As

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Speaker 1: people are like part of these struggles, they become conscious

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Speaker 1: of their place in society. Right, And part of our

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Speaker 1: rule is to try to develop their consciousness. So as

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Speaker 1: people are tempered and tested and recreated, they see their

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Speaker 1: position in the what we're looking for in the pecking order. Right,

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Speaker 1: They see that there are forces that play that are

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Speaker 1: keeping them down. Their structures play that are keeping them down,

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Speaker 1: and they change from just being like social classes to

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Speaker 1: being active social forces. So they brought together by organic

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Speaker 1: methods and by self organized cohesion. What you notice of

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Speaker 1: the popular movements, like, for example, Black Lives Matter, is

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Speaker 1: that the unlike what some conservatives might assume, the Black

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Speaker 1: Lives Matter organization wasn't the one like pulling the strings,

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Speaker 1: you know, like the official group wasn't there, you know,

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Speaker 1: telling people okay, march here, burn that right here, move that.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's like the people themselves came together and

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Speaker 1: you know, really expressed the desire for change. And so really,

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Speaker 1: as they become self conscious actors away of their power,

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Speaker 1: of their voice, of their nemesis, which is the ruling

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Speaker 1: elites that control the social order, a specificitys try to

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Speaker 1: keep that thrust right. What a specificity argue is that

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Speaker 1: essentially there's an anarchist on the current two popular social

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Speaker 1: movements that should be preserved and maintained and cultivated. Right

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Speaker 1: with popular movements, um, they're very quickly co opted by

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Speaker 1: in positions of leadership or by you know, academic elites,

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Speaker 1: or by political parties but specificity aren't there to try

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Speaker 1: to make groups identify as anarchists, right, They're there to

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Speaker 1: just maintain that thrust to be self organized and to

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Speaker 1: fight for their own interests, because ultimately that's our natural

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Speaker 1: impulse as humans, you know, it's really the propaganda that

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Speaker 1: tells us, you know, um, like you have to go

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Speaker 1: through these proper channels. You know, you have to vote

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Speaker 1: with your dollar or you know, food for these politicians

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Speaker 1: or whatever the case may be, can verse and all

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Speaker 1: these different things call up your representatives. You're the natural

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Speaker 1: thrust of a boost and is not to like relinquished

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Speaker 1: control of themselves, you know, is to try to maintain

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Speaker 1: that um and so A specifics trying to push against

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Speaker 1: the propaganda that keeps us from maintaining that, push against

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Speaker 1: the cooptation that ships that from us. Sue, do any

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Speaker 1: sort of automatic critiques of a specifies move come to mind?

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Speaker 1: You all. I'm not sure about like critiques per se.

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Speaker 1: We need to think about it more. But a few

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Speaker 1: things that come to mind around so, like you talked

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Speaker 1: a bit about like the difference between like left unity

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Speaker 1: and creating like an anarchist unity, um, and for people

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Speaker 1: at home, I would like to maybe extrapolate why those

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Speaker 1: are different things. I know you have a good video

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Speaker 1: on left unity already, but like in terms of trying

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Speaker 1: to like you know, if one of the goals being

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Speaker 1: creating like an anarchist organized station that kind of unifies

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Speaker 1: different anarchists, how that is a different type of unity

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Speaker 1: than just left unity in general. Um. I think that

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Speaker 1: might be a point of clarification. And then the other

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Speaker 1: thing I was wondering about is like how does this

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Speaker 1: intersect in terms of like individual goals versus like group

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Speaker 1: goals or like organizational goals and so like, because like

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Speaker 1: there's a there's a back and forth between like personal

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Speaker 1: autonomy and then you know these type of social movements

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Speaker 1: that kind of almost gained their own thrust right right.

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Speaker 1: Yes to the point about the difference between left unity

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Speaker 1: and anarchist unity, um well, obviously anarchists soon fairly has

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Speaker 1: to rogin Us. Um. I think all a general thrust

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Speaker 1: for sattudination and autonomy and that kind of thing it

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Speaker 1: brings us together. You know the difference between like say

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Speaker 1: anti constunity where they're differently some I would say key

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Speaker 1: disagreements within the milieu and left unity is that I

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Speaker 1: feel there are some extremely incompatible factors that prevent left

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Speaker 1: unity from being viable. Yeah, when there's a thrust among

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Speaker 1: significant segments, I mean really every non libertarian segment of

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Speaker 1: you know, they couldn't get Left fun known our popular

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Speaker 1: energy towards state institutions, whether it be through insurrectionary social

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Speaker 1: democracy or reformist social democracy in a case of amounts

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Speaker 1: and stock damage respectively. Um, I think that that really

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Speaker 1: keeps us from really working together and anything more than

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Speaker 1: small goals and small projects. I mean, we've really seen

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Speaker 1: the whole left unity idea fall apart, you know, through

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Speaker 1: wars and through even just like what should be discussions

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Speaker 1: between people, you know, like the First International literally split

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Speaker 1: because of the differences between you know, the so called

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Speaker 1: left currents, you know, between the anarchists and the other socialists.

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Speaker 1: So left unity is not something that I even to achieve.

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Speaker 1: I think most people know that about me by now. Um.

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Speaker 1: But in regard to like anarchist unity, and of course

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Speaker 1: the differences between artists, I think the general thrust to

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Speaker 1: maintain the autonomy and sil termination of the people and

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Speaker 1: of the social movements via inserting ourselves in is what

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Speaker 1: really cluse us together. And of course that alone, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if that enough to maintaining a specificity organization

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Speaker 1: because you know, like I noted, a specificitys try to

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Speaker 1: um develop deeper level you know, strategies and theoretical discussion

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Speaker 1: and that kind of thing, And so with those sort

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Speaker 1: of discussions, you know, you're gonna see a lot more

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Speaker 1: of the distinctions bearing out. But at the very least, um,

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Speaker 1: I think anarchists generally could benefit from a degree of

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Speaker 1: at least unity in the sense of maintaining or so

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Speaker 1: aularity in the sense of maintaining the libertarian thrust of

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Speaker 1: popular movements. I asked the other thing that you had

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Speaker 1: noted about the sort of friction between individual goals and

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Speaker 1: organizational goals, between autonomy and sort of how social movements

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Speaker 1: end up taking on like an energy of their own. Um.

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Speaker 1: To be quite honest, I don't think I have like

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Speaker 1: a fully developed answer for that. Yeah, um, Because on

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Speaker 1: the one hand, a social movement that forgets that it

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Speaker 1: is about, you know, deliberation of individuals is you know,

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Speaker 1: in my view of social movement that's quickly going to

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Speaker 1: and obtaining against the people who are you know, fueling it.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, I've interacted with like a lot

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Speaker 1: of people, what pretty selfish or pretty egotistical or just

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Speaker 1: argumentative for the sake of it. Sorry, So if you're

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Speaker 1: gonna say something, yeah, I was just like the thing

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Speaker 1: that keeps popping up into my head is, you know,

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Speaker 1: one of the things that gets misconstrued all the time

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Speaker 1: is who's calling the shots? And I kind of feel

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Speaker 1: like what you're saying is everybody in a way, right, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that like, which is good sometimes but not

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Speaker 1: good other times obviously exactly because I think it's it's

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Speaker 1: very easy to fall into this sort of um almost

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Speaker 1: reactionary I like island mentality not island mentality is in

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Speaker 1: Caribean is mentality isn't. Person isn't as an island around

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Speaker 1: like autonomy and you know personal freedom, you know, like

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Speaker 1: this rendering idea that you know on step map property,

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Speaker 1: you know that kind of thing just let people do whatever.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like most anarchost conception of what like

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Speaker 1: freedom and autonomy is I think an important part of

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Speaker 1: autonomy and you know freedom and yeah, like this project

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00:27:52,880 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 1: is you know accountability and is you know, like consequences

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Speaker 1: like social consequences and how your actions affect others. You know,

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Speaker 1: like what an I can say was recognized is that

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Speaker 1: we are not in fact islands. You know, our actions

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Speaker 1: or behavioral words affect other people. And so I think

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be a constant project to sort of balance

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Speaker 1: um individual personalities and broader goals. But I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's tricky, right, Like you know, we're you're talking

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Speaker 1: about like some kind of you know, group organization to

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Speaker 1: work together to kind of you know, think of achievable

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Speaker 1: goals and creates steps to get there UM. And I

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Speaker 1: feel among a lot of people who proudly declare themselves

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Speaker 1: anarchists and at least like and they're extremely vocal. Likely

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Speaker 1: these are like people both like online and in person

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Speaker 1: organizing that are very are very like vocal and try

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Speaker 1: to very much like make their place known. We've seen

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Speaker 1: trends away from this direction in terms of like rejecting

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Speaker 1: the idea of goals and demands and just you know,

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Speaker 1: like this this more insurrectionary kind of tendency of just

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Speaker 1: making total destroy for the sake of it and committee, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and and and and that. I mean, like I know

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Speaker 1: that like platform is UM is kind of like it's

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Speaker 1: not like antiens insurrectionary, but it's like it's it definitely

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00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: critiques that type of instructionary trend um. So I'm thinking about, like,

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00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: you know, this idea, and like, how with with with

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Speaker 1: this kind of general, you know, decentralized, no no demands,

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Speaker 1: no goals kind of general kind of direction that like

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00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: capital a anarchists are are doing. How like what's what's

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Speaker 1: maybe some parts of specific that we can actually take

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Speaker 1: into account to be like, hey, maybe there's you know,

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Speaker 1: like I don't like I don't like being called like

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Speaker 1: any adjective anarchist. I think it's silly. I like I

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Speaker 1: like the parts um I think early this year, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they last year, Like I just got to the point

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Speaker 1: for you, I'm anarchist, you know that's yeah. Yeah, I

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00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: like the parton desert. It's like, I'm an anarchist of

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Speaker 1: many adjectives. I'm not. I'm not I'm not always an insurrectionary,

414
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Speaker 1: I'm not always a syndicalist, I'm not always you know,

415
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah blah blah um. And I

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Speaker 1: feel like that's would be really useful kind of thing

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Speaker 1: for people to focus on more in terms of yeah,

418
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: it can be fun to make total destroying that it's

419
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Speaker 1: a very base instinct, but it also would be great

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Speaker 1: to like improve people's lives a little bit um and there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and there's like to to to kind of like dueling things,

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Speaker 1: um and in terms that's why I I do really

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Speaker 1: like the part of like this type of stuff that

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Speaker 1: it's really appealing to me just because I kind of

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Speaker 1: already work on this myself. So I'm like, oh, I'm

426
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: already doing this. But it's like the it is it

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00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: is like the social the social insertion side of things,

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Speaker 1: I think is something that would be a much a

429
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: much better way of thinking about. Like everyone hates talking

430
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: about optics because yeah, it's frustrating, but I think the

431
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: social insertion method is a better framework for kind of

432
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: dealing with some of those same problems. Um and yeah.

433
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: And then like you know, we there is even among

434
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 1: insurrectionaries and all those you know, all those types, there

435
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: still is like a decent amount of like group projects

436
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: and stuff, and that is I think a really good

437
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: thing to focus on because but yeah, there's not many

438
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: anarchists and it would be cool if there was more,

439
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: and if we just focus on the parts that make

440
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 1: people go, oh, that's kind of silly and pointless. Then

441
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 1: we're not really going to grow anarchism that much. Um,

442
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: So highlighting the parts that are like, oh, yeah, you're

443
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: actually helping people, that's gonna convince a lot more people

444
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: who are kind of already trending in that general general direction,

445
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 1: and then hey, maybe in a few years they can

446
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,959
Speaker 1: also be doing silly destruction for fun because it is

447
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: it is fun sometimes, right, Yeah, like this, as you

448
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 1: mentioned optics and reminded it is kind of pet peeve

449
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: I have with some you know, instant people where they

450
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 1: try to treat like ideologies so specifically anarchism as like

451
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: a pr project that we have to like constantly be

452
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: trying to shift the optics and micromanaged like every aspect.

453
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,719
Speaker 1: Like no, I think the best remedy for like, because

454
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: you're not going to match the power of mass media,

455
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 1: what you can do to push back against the sort

456
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: of propaganda is help people and help people, and identify

457
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 1: as anarchists as you're helping people, right, Like, that's the

458
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 1: easiest and quickest way to dispel people's notions and like

459
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: conceptions of what an anarchist is. If we were to

460
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: take like socialization, right and sort of I would say

461
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: there's still it's a bit and individualize it a bit. Um.

462
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: I would say that as a practice, you know, just

463
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: even if you don't know any any other anarchists in

464
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: your area, right, just being there, being in these movements,

465
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: helping people and you know, saying you know, this is

466
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: what I believe. Um, just talking to people about what

467
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: you believe as a place and as you're helping them.

468
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: You know, that goes a long way, much longer than

469
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: any you know, poster um campaign or like wheat pasting

470
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: initiative or artwork, um, you know wall art or whatever,

471
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 1: you know, like actively helping people. Of course wall Lot

472
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 1: has this place and double little bit myself. But you

473
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: know it's um, it's not. It's ultimately like talking to

474
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: people and helping people and being there people and being

475
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: honest about your intentions that I think, you know, we

476
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: should working towards. And I think those types of projects

477
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: are something that the specific model like excels that in

478
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: terms of like creating like a unity of anarchists who

479
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: get like who have like a goal in mind and

480
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: then go out to achieve the goal, helping people like

481
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: doing like doing like like like direct directly helping people

482
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: is something that that type of organization model is kind

483
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: of the best at UM because you can, yeah, really

484
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 1: like organize things much better with a small group like

485
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,399
Speaker 1: that and create goals that are actually very achievable, whether

486
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,240
Speaker 1: it be you know, building a community kitchen or building

487
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: you know, heating centers for like for the winter, like

488
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: under under bridges or whatever. You know, all those types

489
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: of starting comming to the gardens, all those kinds of

490
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: things are I think what this type of model really

491
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 1: excels that. And yeah, you don't need to change your

492
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: ideology to this one word because that's that's but you

493
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:02,879
Speaker 1: can pick up different parts of it be like, yeah,

494
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: that actually seems like a useful way of world. You

495
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,320
Speaker 1: don't want, you know, a politicians just ruling hen co

496
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: opt our project, you know, like just basic things like that,

497
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 1: you know. And then from there, you know, as you

498
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: are talking with people and meeting people who are passionate

499
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: about issues in these social movements, you know, not only

500
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: does it keep you from developing this sort of UM

501
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: partumularly online um in group kind of mentality, it also

502
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 1: opens up opportunities you to develop your and this is

503
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 1: on the topic of like the individualist social institution, it

504
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: prints or presents opportunities for you to develop your own

505
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 1: I had no like book club, and then from that

506
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 1: book club could come and a specificity organization. You know,

507
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 1: as you begin to develop your politics and your shared politics,

508
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: more can come out of it. So don't underestimate, you know,

509
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: the potential of just putting in the work and talking

510
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:07,800
Speaker 1: to people. Yeah, you know, just being there on the ground.

511
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,240
Speaker 1: One of the best things you can do to help

512
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 1: stay alive in the well things are heading in the

513
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: direction that they're heading societally, is like making friends and

514
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 1: forming a friend group and then yeah, like actually doing

515
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: stuff together. That makes dealing with everything else that's happening

516
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 1: so so much better. And hey, remember our old friend

517
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: Nest Nest remark started with a book club, so hey,

518
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,839
Speaker 1: you know, you never know where book clubs can lead.

519
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: You never exactly. It's actually really interesting, UM video clip

520
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 1: of Marie booked Gin talking about book clubs and like

521
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: the power and potential book clubs. Um. I don't know

522
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 1: if we could probably link that in the show notes,

523
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 1: but it's like a really interesting make drink. So ultimately,

524
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 1: a specificity believe that social movements we reached their own

525
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: logic of creating revolution. Not when they all just decide

526
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 1: to identify as anarchists and wave the black flag, but

527
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 1: when the majority reach a consensus and a consciousness of

528
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: their power and their ability to exercise their power in

529
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: their daily lives. So even if they do not adopt anarchism,

530
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: they still consciously adopt the ideas embedded within it. Their

531
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: multiple political currents will exist within any movement, and so

532
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 1: it's important that we as anarchists and I guess specifically

533
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: as a specificity, are there to actively combat the opportunism

534
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,959
Speaker 1: that come from you know, these forces from this whether

535
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:55,879
Speaker 1: electoral or fin goddess within these social movements as well,

536
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:01,720
Speaker 1: we can also help to push them further through um,

537
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: you know, pushing for more direct democracy and consensus, through federalism,

538
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 1: and confederating with other social movements, through you know, building

539
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 1: up the mutual aid within these movements. Like if you are,

540
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 1: for example, part of a mutual aid group in one neighborhood,

541
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,760
Speaker 1: you can push them to start reaching out with mutually

542
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: groups and other neighborhoods and creating a network of mutual

543
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 1: aid groups that can build into something bigger. You know,

544
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 1: combining resources and manpower to really push the revolution, you know. Lastly,

545
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: we'll say that for those who are trying to like

546
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: get into the whole specifies more thing. Um. I mean,

547
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 1: you could start a new organization from scratch, but again,

548
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: like the easiest thing to do is suggest getting there

549
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 1: to people and be honest with the people. I keep

550
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 1: saying the people, even though I have my critiques of

551
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 1: this umorphous conception of the people, but the point remains

552
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: that our goal is to spread our ideas, not to

553
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 1: get people on any particular ideology, but to get a

554
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 1: liberatory consciousness on the ground and to generalize that consciousness.

555
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: And for those who are curious about the specifies more

556
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 1: in action and social institutions, specifically the Federal Show. Anarchista

557
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:40,240
Speaker 1: GAUSHA in Brazil has worked with neighborhood committees and urban

558
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 1: villages and slums. They've built alliances with the rank and

559
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 1: file members of the rural land as workers movement the

560
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: must and they've also worked with trash and recyclables collectors. UM. Brazil,

561
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: for those who don't know, has a lot of high

562
00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: levels of temporary uh and contingent employment, underemployment and unemployment,

563
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 1: so the working class isn't how will you traditionally conceive

564
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 1: it as like just surviving primarily off of wage labor,

565
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 1: but it's more so this is sort of subsistence week

566
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 1: informal economy, gig economy can deal so being able to

567
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:22,240
Speaker 1: connect with these but when charged with collectors, for example,

568
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: who are part of this sort of economy, the ef

569
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: EG has built a strong relationship with them and help

570
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,839
Speaker 1: them to form their own national organization to you know,

571
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 1: push for their interests and to collectivize their recycling operations.

572
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: Specifies More is also um worked with the has also

573
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,399
Speaker 1: worked in the efforts of the Zabalaza anarchist Communist Front

574
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: in South Africa, as they also are strong opponents of

575
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,399
Speaker 1: social institution and you know, really being embedded in these

576
00:40:54,400 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 1: social movements in Argentina, in Brazil, in South Africa, and

577
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:03,800
Speaker 1: in the US in the case of Black Rois Anarchist

578
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 1: Federation A specifies More has been building as a key

579
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: point reference and so I'll leave us off with a

580
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 1: code from the use of Front Collective, an anarchist group online.

581
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 1: If libertarian socialists merely organized with libertarian socialists, then they

582
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: will lose contact with the broader population. They need to

583
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 1: be reaching. If libertarian socialists merely joined social movements without

584
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: advocating various libertarian socialist practices that can be used, then

585
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 1: social movements can easily drift into being susceptible to reformist,

586
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: un strategic, liberal and leninist tendencies and opportunists. If libertarian

587
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 1: socialists merely joined social movements and try to spread ideas

588
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: and practices in mare individual ways, they'll be far less

589
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: successful than a well thought out, coordinated effort. And if

590
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: theoretically specific libertarian socialist groups try to control social movements

591
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: and poular organizations from the top down, then such specific

592
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 1: groups sacrifice their own principles and would reproduce hierarchical organizing

593
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: in contrast to authoritarian finding God his conceptions specifies more

594
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 1: groups and a specificity put the activity towards a self

595
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: organization of movements and organizations. Ultimately, as I honestly love

596
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: this code from Shanti Alston, power to the people, where

597
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 1: it stays with the people. Peace. Yes, Andrew, please please

598
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 1: plug your plugables because they are good and people should

599
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:39,760
Speaker 1: in fact listen to them, right. Thank you. Safety First,

600
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 1: of course, I will say that you could follow me

601
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:47,439
Speaker 1: on Twitter at underscore st Drew and on YouTube at

602
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 1: st andrews um and you can find me here apparently

603
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: twice a month, which is pretty great. Shout out to

604
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:04,280
Speaker 1: it could happen here. Take care everyone again, He's again

605
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to our show. I'm Zoe de Chanelle

606
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 1: and I'm so excited to be joined by my friends

607
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 1: and cast mates Hannah Simone and Lamar and Morris to

608
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: recap our hit television series New Girl. Join us every

609
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,719
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611
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612
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643
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 1: podcast or wherever you get your podcast. What's new My

644
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:27,800
Speaker 1: Year ship? Yeah, new year, same ship. I'm Robert Evans.

645
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 1: This is behind the we retired, We retired this bit?

646
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,800
Speaker 1: Who where is this time for a new bit? This

647
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:43,919
Speaker 1: is it could happen here the podcast about how things

648
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 1: sometimes feel like they're falling apart sometimes and maybe we

649
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: can do things about that. You know what's falling apart

650
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 1: is me because I during my break woke up at

651
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: like one thirty every day and now it's someone speakable

652
00:45:56,040 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 1: hour in the morning. I hate this the time you

653
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: pret the time for for For one of our first

654
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: episodes of the New Year, we have decided to subject

655
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: ourselves to your para social whims um, and we are

656
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: going to be doing maybe one, maybe two Q and

657
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 1: A episodes um uh, giving AI's to your cues. And

658
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:27,760
Speaker 1: I've been it's okay. I've been told that our producer

659
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 1: Sophie has a list of questions already prepared so that

660
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 1: I can stop talking and she can. Now you've been

661
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,799
Speaker 1: told you're the one who posted the thread. Sophie said

662
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:40,800
Speaker 1: that she would read them. I did volunteers tribute, but

663
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: I might, I might, I might take that back it

664
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 1: so how much at some point? Yeah, uh, let's let's

665
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: let's start with let's start with a A simply a

666
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 1: good one. Uh. What has been your favorite episode slash

667
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 1: topic to research in this past season so since we

668
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:07,759
Speaker 1: started season two? Oh god, Um, I enjoyed the metaverse

669
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,359
Speaker 1: Facebook episodes because there's a part of me that really

670
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 1: likes shipping on bad tech industry stuff. Um. It fills

671
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: a deep part of me just just really comprehensively thinking

672
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 1: about how how terrible the vision of the future these

673
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:28,280
Speaker 1: people have it. So that was probably my favorite. I

674
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 1: liked the Climate Leviathan stuff. Um, the Climate Leviathan, Climate Behemoth,

675
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 1: Climate Now, Climate X kind of four quadrants. I I

676
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 1: liked learning about that, like, oh jeez, almost a year

677
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 1: ago actually by the time I started researching for the show. Um,

678
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: and I'm decently happy with the way that those topics

679
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 1: were presented and how they keep popping back every once

680
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 1: in a while. I think in terms of just the

681
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: favorite episode of recorded, it was probably the interview with

682
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 1: the Common Humanity Collective people, just because like listening to

683
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 1: a bunch of people who have very sophisticated and well

684
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 1: developed mutual Aid project and then listening to you know

685
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 1: them talking about their political development and how they've been

686
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 1: sort of solving their problems was really reassuring and cheerful

687
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. And then research wise, it

688
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 1: was definitely the Spooky Area fifty one episode where I

689
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I'm gonna do a fun episode about uh,

690
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 1: the government and aliens and it was like, oh no,

691
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 1: here's every war crime ever and like sixteen people almost

692
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 1: killing everyone on Earth. I was like, this is this is.

693
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,320
Speaker 1: Probably Probably the most fun I had was with the

694
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 1: Chaos Magic and Esoteric Pacism episode How Silly It Is? Um? Yeah,

695
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:50,760
Speaker 1: that one. That one also was just just a pleasure

696
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,319
Speaker 1: to record. I also loved having Corey doctor owen um

697
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:58,319
Speaker 1: because that was cool. That was cool. That was that

698
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,359
Speaker 1: was very cool, How cool of us. I've enjoyed our

699
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 1: our fiction episodes with Margaret and with Rebecca those those

700
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: have been great, and I've loved having sat Andrew h Yeah,

701
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 1: that has been also very cool, fantastic. What were you

702
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: gonna say, Robert nothing? Oh great, this person says, I

703
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 1: think I've got my head wrapped around mutual aid, community resilience,

704
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 1: and all the stuff you talk about. Any tips on

705
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 1: how to effectively communicate it to people who might not

706
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 1: be at least initially open to it h um. I

707
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: mean it kind of depends on why they're not open

708
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: to it, right. So it's it's a matter of are

709
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 1: they just somebody who has a lot of faith in

710
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:43,759
Speaker 1: in systems as they exist, or they someone who's kind

711
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 1: of coming at it from more of a traditional like

712
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 1: liberal um status perspective where they think the option is

713
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,320
Speaker 1: to get in line with you know, the Democratic Party

714
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 1: and support that and that will make things better. Um.

715
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 1: Like basically, are they a top down er um? Or

716
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 1: there somebody who rejects it's like communism um, and they

717
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 1: don't they don't think that people have any kind of

718
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 1: fundamental responsibility to themselves. Um. Because you are going to

719
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,880
Speaker 1: have kind of a different approach to trying to reach

720
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 1: either of those people. Um. If they're coming at it

721
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 1: from kind of more of a right wing standpoint, but

722
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 1: they're not, you know, uh talking about shooting vaccine doctors. Um,

723
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 1: they're just kind of conservative. I think the way to

724
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 1: do it is to sort of hearken back to some

725
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 1: of these very traditional ideas of like um, American homesteaders

726
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 1: and and independent you know, communities on the frontier and

727
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 1: self reliance, and how mutual aid is people taking responsibility

728
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 1: UM for their communities rather than you know, this idea

729
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,240
Speaker 1: I think a lot of conservatives have of like people

730
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:53,439
Speaker 1: UM just kind of lazily taking charity. How it's it's

731
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 1: different from charity, and that it's a community UM seeing

732
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 1: its own needs and becoming independent as much as is

733
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:05,320
Speaker 1: possible on the state from the state, UM by trying

734
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 1: to meet its own needs, and how that UM is

735
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 1: better for people than just sort of UM begging, like

736
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,880
Speaker 1: being dependent upon government programs. I think that's kind of

737
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 1: the way in which to reach out to those people

738
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 1: with that idea if they're coming at it from more

739
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:24,319
Speaker 1: of a liberal top down approach, UM, I think you

740
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: can get more into the weeds and may argue about

741
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 1: kind of inefficiencies within the system, problems within the system.

742
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 1: I think one thing to really point out that will

743
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 1: probably still be fresh to a lot of people of

744
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 1: that persuasion is how frightening the first couple of weeks

745
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 1: of quarantine were and all of the supply line issues

746
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 1: and kind of the early breakdown to be like, look, um,

747
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:48,439
Speaker 1: that didn't go away, like right, you can see that

748
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 1: that we're still dealing with a lot of this and

749
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 1: we're still having supply line disruptions and the state really

750
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 1: has not kind of even under Biden sailed and to

751
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 1: clear the gap. And so we need these community resilient

752
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 1: and see programs, UM. And you can you know, depending

753
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,319
Speaker 1: on the kind of person there, you can also sort

754
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 1: of point out, um, the degree to which there is

755
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: our attempts at kind of sabotage of any sort of

756
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 1: of of of top down government programs by the right

757
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 1: and how um that's part of why you need community

758
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 1: resiliency programs because you can't guarantee who's going to be

759
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 1: in the White House, you can't guarantee what's going to

760
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: continue to get funded. Um. And outside of kind of

761
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 1: any of the the structural issues um that make that

762
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 1: stuff difficult. So I think, UM, that's kind of broadly speaking,

763
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:38,879
Speaker 1: the two different ways you you can broach those conversations

764
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:41,879
Speaker 1: with people, depending on the tendencies they're they're looking at

765
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:46,719
Speaker 1: it from uh, let's let's let's get into an unpleasant one.

766
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 1: What's the gang's outlook on this? Year's election, and how

767
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 1: do you think it might position us for do we

768
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 1: see more violence letting up to the next presidential election? Well,

769
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 1: I know we'll be doing a prediction ze Ish episode later. Um.

770
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,959
Speaker 1: But as for this election, I have I've not looked

771
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 1: at anything about it. I think the Steelers are going

772
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:13,320
Speaker 1: to take all what what what's border? Are the Steelers?

773
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 1: Um one of them? That's great? I mean yeah, I

774
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:28,319
Speaker 1: mean I feel like if Democrats want to keep the

775
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:31,319
Speaker 1: power that they currently have, they will probably need to

776
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 1: do some type of symbolic action that makes people think

777
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 1: they actually do things. They've managed to have control of

778
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:44,840
Speaker 1: every and done absolutely nothing that they So I'm guessing

779
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 1: if they want to keep that, they should probably do

780
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:50,360
Speaker 1: something really soon um or else I don't see people

781
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:55,319
Speaker 1: being super eager to vote in two for the Democrats. Yeah, yeah,

782
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:57,360
Speaker 1: I mean one of the issues they've got is this

783
00:53:57,360 --> 00:53:59,840
Speaker 1: this thing that you know, kind of the Technocrats always

784
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: had of where you know, as we as Corey pointed

785
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 1: out when we had him on, there have been some

786
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 1: really positive moves by the Biden administration in terms of

787
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 1: like appointments and how different kind of agencies are being handled. Um.

788
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 1: But when it comes to the things that he actually

789
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 1: campaigned on, Like it just hasn't it hasn't happened, should

790
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: it ain't been done? Um, Like the closest we've gotten

791
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 1: recently is yet another kick the can down the street

792
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 1: a little bit for student loan repayments, And I agree,

793
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: I think they need to do. There's like two big

794
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:32,360
Speaker 1: things they could do that might have a significant shifting effect.

795
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 1: One of them would be student debt forgiveness, and one

796
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 1: of them would be fucking de schedule marijuana. Even without Congress,

797
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 1: Biden could could not factively make marijuana not and like

798
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 1: that would be number one politically, the easiest fucking win

799
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 1: in the world because the vast majority of Republicans don't

800
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:53,879
Speaker 1: give a shit about that anymore. Um, it will piss

801
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 1: off cops, which is probably why you won't do it.

802
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 1: But like those two things could have an impact on

803
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 1: in terms, that's certainly a thing that would like you

804
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: can campaign on more, but I don't. I don't know

805
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:06,680
Speaker 1: that I think he'll do that. And of obviously I

806
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 1: guess another big old payment to stay home, but I

807
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 1: think that shipped unsailed, Like honestly, like, I don't think

808
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:17,399
Speaker 1: they want to win, Like they so they can sit

809
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,400
Speaker 1: there and then and go, oh yeah, we can't do

810
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 1: anything because Republicans control the House, and you guys need

811
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:26,279
Speaker 1: to like, you guys need to like save us. This

812
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 1: is the most important election of our lifetime. It's like,

813
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 1: and they will keep doing this over and over and

814
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 1: over again until literally to seize boil and everyone, you know,

815
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,360
Speaker 1: everyone's being heard into concentration camps. Like they will just

816
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 1: keep doing this and and like I think that's that's

817
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:41,360
Speaker 1: the thing that's actually important about two cycle is that

818
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 1: like the Democrats have you know, you know what what

819
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 1: the rejection of Brine Sanders sort of is is the

820
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 1: Democrats essentially going, we are not a popular party, right,

821
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 1: like we we are not a party that is going

822
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:55,239
Speaker 1: to like like we will not even give the pretense

823
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 1: of like having a base that we represent and we

824
00:55:57,760 --> 00:55:59,880
Speaker 1: do things for like we're just we're just in it

825
00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 1: for ourselves. We're in it to just like you know,

826
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:04,720
Speaker 1: give all of our weird like black Rock friends positions

827
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:07,520
Speaker 1: in the government, and we don't you know, and it's

828
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's we we don't have a policy agenda,

829
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:11,759
Speaker 1: and we don't care if we lose, because if we

830
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:13,880
Speaker 1: lose all you people just have to go put us

831
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 1: back into office because the alternative is just more death camps. Yeah,

832
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:20,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's a broad belief like within

833
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 1: kind of the Democratic Party that things are still business

834
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 1: as usual and that the Republican Party is still a

835
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 1: political party, and so kind of the handing off and

836
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 1: switching of power is fine. That's seen as business as usual,

837
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:37,280
Speaker 1: rather than the Democrats or the Republicans are continually ratcheting

838
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 1: away from there being any chance of a switch of power,

839
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:42,719
Speaker 1: um at least through legal means. Like that's the whole

840
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 1: thing they're doing. And the failures to pass any kind

841
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 1: of voting rights and the failures to see like a

842
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:52,920
Speaker 1: voting right reform as an existential issue for not just

843
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:57,360
Speaker 1: the party, but like the concept of uh democracy in

844
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 1: this country is is I think evident that however you

845
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:04,800
Speaker 1: kind of try to rationalize in your head why it's happening.

846
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 1: There's a real disconnect between the party leadership and understandings

847
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:13,279
Speaker 1: of the new nature of reality. Yeah. Well that's the

848
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 1: other thing. I mean, they'll be fine, right like outside

849
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 1: of like another January six killing them all, Like they'll

850
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:22,479
Speaker 1: be fine. It doesn't like for them. It basically doesn't

851
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 1: matter if Republicans take power. Maybe maybe some of them

852
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 1: will get impeached, they'll be like a show trial for

853
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 1: like two people or something, but like they're gonna be fine,

854
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 1: and you know, that's that's the thing that motivates all

855
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 1: of their thinking, is that they can survive another public administration.

856
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 1: Like we're you know, we're dying under both of them,

857
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 1: and you know, like I mean, this is this is

858
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 1: partially you know, if you want to talk about sort

859
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 1: of the COVID response for a second, in the relation

860
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 1: that has to the election, it's like, yeah, the Democrats

861
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:49,160
Speaker 1: are just like completely given up even the pretense of

862
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 1: doing literally anything about COVID literally because literally anything, yeah,

863
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 1: go out and die, like so we can talk about that.

864
00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:00,040
Speaker 1: That's a separate yeah, yeah, that's a separate issue, do

865
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 1: I think, just in terms of like how how to

866
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 1: interpret what they're doing with COVID and the degree to

867
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 1: which I think they even have a chance of uh whatever. Um,

868
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 1: But yeah, I was like, like like, they don't care if

869
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 1: we live or die, Like we care if we live

870
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:15,560
Speaker 1: or die, and we're gonna have to do stuff on

871
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 1: our own outside of this because they're just gonna kill

872
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:22,919
Speaker 1: us all. Yeah, I mean I think that it's hard

873
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 1: for me to tell where the elections are going to

874
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:31,040
Speaker 1: go precisely. Uh. Biden's polling certainly isn't great. It's also

875
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:35,440
Speaker 1: not like wildly out of step with how where presidents

876
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 1: often are kind of at this point, UM in in

877
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 1: their cycle. So and also it's pretty normal for the

878
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 1: party that just won the presidential election to lose at

879
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 1: the midterms. That's more normal than not UM, I think. So,

880
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 1: I think the big questions are number one, like the

881
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:54,000
Speaker 1: degree to which it's a wide sweep, which is going

882
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 1: to depend on the actual impact a lot of these

883
00:58:57,200 --> 00:59:01,880
Speaker 1: UM efforts to kind of restrict voting and jerrymander, Like

884
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 1: what the actual on the ground impact is UM, and

885
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:08,479
Speaker 1: the degree to which we've seen an actual shift, because

886
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 1: one of the things that the polls don't often tell

887
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:14,840
Speaker 1: us is like, yeah, Democrats are not popular. Most people

888
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:16,680
Speaker 1: seem to be aware that a lot of promises have

889
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:19,720
Speaker 1: gone unfulfilled, But it doesn't also mean that they like

890
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 1: the Republicans UM, who as the party of Trump, are

891
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 1: still kind of widely disliked by people. So it's kind

892
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 1: of unclear to me what precisely is going to go down.

893
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:33,200
Speaker 1: By which I mean whether or not it's going to

894
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 1: be a pretty normal midterm, whether Republicans pick up some

895
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:40,200
Speaker 1: seats or like a nightmare blowout. Um And I do

896
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 1: think that has a lot to do with whether or

897
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 1: not Biden and like does a couple of the things

898
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 1: that a president can do unilaterally that would be really

899
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 1: easy for other people to campaign on. Um. Like he

900
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 1: they have to, like if they actually do want to win,

901
00:59:57,800 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 1: they have to they have to make a couple of

902
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 1: big hail mary's they have to do again, Biden has

903
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 1: to do a couple of the big things that a

904
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:06,520
Speaker 1: president can do and then say, okay, see I did

905
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:09,640
Speaker 1: a thing, put more Democrats in, and we can do

906
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 1: this other big thing that a president can't do on

907
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:13,440
Speaker 1: its own or something like that. Like I I just

908
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 1: don't see, Um. I mean, you know, anything could happen. Still,

909
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:21,960
Speaker 1: it's fucking January. I think there's a positive if you

910
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:23,800
Speaker 1: want to in terms of things that are making me

911
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 1: kind of optimistic. Um And and in terms of things

912
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 1: that are better about when the Democrats are in powder

913
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:32,640
Speaker 1: and then the Republicans, you can bully the Biden administration

914
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:35,120
Speaker 1: to taking broadly positive action, which is what happened with

915
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:37,760
Speaker 1: student loan repayments, right, That's why that did get kicked

916
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 1: down the can a couple of kick down the road

917
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 1: a couple of months. Um. And so I do think

918
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:48,560
Speaker 1: there's potential in um harassing the Biden administration to taking

919
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:51,720
Speaker 1: actions that can make Democrats more popular. Um. That would

920
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 1: not be the reason to do it. The reason to

921
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:55,440
Speaker 1: do it is so that people don't starve trying to

922
01:00:55,480 --> 01:01:00,360
Speaker 1: pay back student loans. Um. But it does point to,

923
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:03,680
Speaker 1: I think in an avenue of hope. Um, if we're

924
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:08,440
Speaker 1: trying not to be complete dooomers in January. Yeah, and

925
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:11,200
Speaker 1: speaking of avenues of hope, it's time for an ad

926
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 1: by Ah. The only thing that gives me hope is

927
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:19,280
Speaker 1: the products and services that support this podcast. And we

928
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:28,160
Speaker 1: are back back, we are, we are, i've i've I

929
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:30,480
Speaker 1: have a question. I would like us to talk about

930
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 1: new year book list. Oh yeah, that's simple. So what's

931
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:40,320
Speaker 1: what's some I think we could answer this like? And

932
01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:43,040
Speaker 1: then they also someone else followed up with saying, recommend

933
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:45,160
Speaker 1: some books that maybe not just let left this theory

934
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:47,880
Speaker 1: of climate change also some like fiction stuff as well.

935
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:51,120
Speaker 1: And I'm just gonna say the books that I'm reading

936
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:52,800
Speaker 1: or is on my reading list. Not I'm not going

937
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 1: to recommend books I've already read. I'm just gonna say

938
01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 1: the ones I'm currently reading. UM. I'm still making it

939
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:02,920
Speaker 1: through hyper objects for an upcoming episode. UM. I picked

940
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:05,200
Speaker 1: up a really a book I wanted to get for

941
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 1: a long time called Islands of Abandonment, which is about

942
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 1: um people, Well, no, it's it's it's about places that

943
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:18,560
Speaker 1: have kind of been forgotten and regrown or taken to

944
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:21,400
Speaker 1: have been kind of reclaimed by the area that they were,

945
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:24,080
Speaker 1: that they were built on. And then I also have

946
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:26,760
Speaker 1: a random few books on alchemy that I'm going through

947
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:33,400
Speaker 1: as well. That's most of my books. Horrible. UM. I

948
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:36,880
Speaker 1: read the last book I finished in one was in

949
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:40,800
Speaker 1: the Garden of Beasts, which is by what is his name?

950
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:44,160
Speaker 1: I think it's Eric larson Um. He's a guy who's

951
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:46,400
Speaker 1: written He wrote like Devil in the White City and

952
01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 1: a couple of other books that people have probably read

953
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:53,880
Speaker 1: Eric larson Um, And it's about the first US ambassador

954
01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:57,280
Speaker 1: to Nazi Germany or what becomes Nazi Journey. He gets

955
01:02:57,280 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 1: sent there right before like like months before Hitler take

956
01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:04,720
Speaker 1: power and The book largely traces he and his family's

957
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:09,080
Speaker 1: journey in Nazi Germany from like kind of didn't really

958
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 1: care about German politics, and we're often broadly sympathetic towards

959
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:16,520
Speaker 1: the Nazis. They melt met like his daughter kind of

960
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:20,040
Speaker 1: is is very much like on board with the Nazi

961
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:22,600
Speaker 1: revolution for like the first half year that she's there.

962
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:27,440
Speaker 1: She's also like simultaneously dating the head of the Gestapo

963
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 1: and the Soviet um like assistant ambassador, which is fascinating. Like,

964
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 1: it's a very interesting book, um, And the story, like

965
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 1: the journey this kind of family goes on realizing like

966
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:40,880
Speaker 1: what the Nazis are in the perspective of that. It's

967
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 1: it's very well written. Um, it's very detailed. I really

968
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. The thing that I liked the most was

969
01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:50,280
Speaker 1: the detail it goes into about the kind of the

970
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:53,160
Speaker 1: fates of because it's it's a more you know, obviously

971
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 1: as much of a nerd on the history of fascism

972
01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:57,920
Speaker 1: as I am, I've read a lot about the Night

973
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:00,200
Speaker 1: of Long Knives. This did the best job of kind

974
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 1: of going into detail about the kind of dudes who

975
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:04,760
Speaker 1: the dudes who were purged in the Night of Long Knives.

976
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:08,080
Speaker 1: So these guys who were Nazis and that they wore

977
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:10,360
Speaker 1: swastikas and they were part of the party and whatnot,

978
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:14,920
Speaker 1: but also weren't Nazis enough to not get purged, and

979
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:17,760
Speaker 1: in a lot of cases were like starting to fall

980
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:19,720
Speaker 1: out of love with the party when the Night of

981
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:23,240
Speaker 1: Long Knives had And so it's these it's really interesting,

982
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 1: UM and I recommend it to people. And the last

983
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:29,320
Speaker 1: book I started in the first book I finished in

984
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:34,000
Speaker 1: two was called Ministry of the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson,

985
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 1: who is UM an interesting science fiction author, in part

986
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 1: because Ministry of the Future is about climate change. UM.

987
01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:46,040
Speaker 1: It is a a science fiction look at about like

988
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 1: a thousand different potential solutions to climate change. And Kim

989
01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:53,440
Speaker 1: Stanley Robinson is actually like an expert UM. He works

990
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:56,120
Speaker 1: for the Sierra Center. I think it's called UM. He's

991
01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:59,360
Speaker 1: won a bunch of awards for his work on like

992
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 1: trying to like posit different solutions to climate change. He's

993
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:05,400
Speaker 1: he he understands, he's not like coming at this from

994
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:08,080
Speaker 1: the perspective of an even even a well researched author.

995
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 1: He's he's writing from the perspective of someone who is

996
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:13,760
Speaker 1: an actual scientific expert in what happens and how the

997
01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:17,080
Speaker 1: different solutions might work. And the thing that's really interesting

998
01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:21,040
Speaker 1: about Ministry of the Future is it's this fascinating melange

999
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:24,640
Speaker 1: of UM. Like a number of the character the Ministry

1000
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:28,040
Speaker 1: of the Future is this kind of hypothetical new U

1001
01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:31,200
Speaker 1: N agency that's put in place after a horrible wet

1002
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:35,439
Speaker 1: bulb um heat event kills twenty million people in India UM,

1003
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:38,880
Speaker 1: and they're they're kind of trying to push for very

1004
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 1: technocratic solutions to climate change. So, like one of the

1005
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:43,880
Speaker 1: big things the book focuses on a lot is this

1006
01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:46,240
Speaker 1: idea of a climate coin, which is a kind of

1007
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:52,800
Speaker 1: um international backed by banks cryptocurrency that that pays as

1008
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:57,080
Speaker 1: a kind of long term bond for sequestering carbon, so

1009
01:05:57,160 --> 01:06:00,280
Speaker 1: that like countries like Saudi Arabia that have huge oil

1010
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:03,880
Speaker 1: reserves actually make more money by refusing to pump out

1011
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 1: oil and thus get paid in these coins. So it's

1012
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:10,360
Speaker 1: really technocratic solutions like that. And then also terrorist groups

1013
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:13,240
Speaker 1: that may be funded by this U N Agency building

1014
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:16,200
Speaker 1: fleets of drones to murder people on commercial air flights

1015
01:06:16,640 --> 01:06:19,360
Speaker 1: UM in mass in order to cripple the entire air

1016
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:22,959
Speaker 1: travel industry and stop carbon emission and carrying out mass

1017
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:27,920
Speaker 1: assassinations on like CEOs of of oil companies living in

1018
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:30,480
Speaker 1: their private islands. So it's this really interesting mix of

1019
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:34,280
Speaker 1: like kind of liberal politicians and like bankers like working

1020
01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:38,160
Speaker 1: out these very wonky solutions to things, and like terrorists

1021
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:42,200
Speaker 1: who have lost people in climate emergencies mass murdering um

1022
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:45,320
Speaker 1: billionaires uh and and so it's it's a very it's

1023
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 1: the whitest possible ranging look at kind of different solutions

1024
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:51,880
Speaker 1: to climate change and how they might work. And it's

1025
01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:55,440
Speaker 1: a very optimistic book. Um. And there's there's elements of

1026
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:57,120
Speaker 1: it that I kind of the optimism I kind of

1027
01:06:57,160 --> 01:07:01,280
Speaker 1: disagree with. I think oddly enough Kim doesn't give enough

1028
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:05,280
Speaker 1: weight to the dangers of authoritarian populism and and the

1029
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:07,520
Speaker 1: threat I think they present to any of these kind

1030
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:10,360
Speaker 1: of potential solutions. But it's still a very well thought

1031
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:13,680
Speaker 1: out look at climate change and I think really worth

1032
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:17,880
Speaker 1: reading um if you want something that will both bring

1033
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:20,000
Speaker 1: up different because he also goes into a lot of

1034
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:24,240
Speaker 1: like very scientific solutions, like pumping up water from underneath

1035
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:27,240
Speaker 1: glaciers in order to stop glaciers from sliding, and like

1036
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:29,560
Speaker 1: slow the rate of melt and all these these other

1037
01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:32,800
Speaker 1: kind of like very much like technical, here's a thing

1038
01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:35,400
Speaker 1: that we can do that will reduce the effect of

1039
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:39,040
Speaker 1: this specific um kind of climate change. It's really a

1040
01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:43,120
Speaker 1: very good book. Um and it's apparently was Barack Obama's

1041
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:45,959
Speaker 1: favorite book of the year, which, considering the degree which

1042
01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:50,520
Speaker 1: it talks about murdering politicians and business leaders, is interesting

1043
01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:53,400
Speaker 1: to me. I think he was maybe more paying attention

1044
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:57,440
Speaker 1: to the carbon coins stuff than the shooting oil industry

1045
01:07:57,440 --> 01:08:00,720
Speaker 1: executives in their face while they're sleeping. He was also

1046
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:05,320
Speaker 1: a fan of parasite, so he may just have been

1047
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:07,040
Speaker 1: told this is a book you should say you like,

1048
01:08:07,160 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 1: but it is. It is a very good book. It

1049
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:12,360
Speaker 1: is really worth reading. Um and it's it's it is

1050
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:15,200
Speaker 1: a work of science fiction. But honestly it's like it's

1051
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:19,960
Speaker 1: also it's well again, Kim really understands his stuff from

1052
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:22,960
Speaker 1: a technical level, so I think it's pretty unimpeachable from

1053
01:08:22,960 --> 01:08:25,600
Speaker 1: that point of view. There are some kind of sociological

1054
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:30,280
Speaker 1: areas where I don't think the book. I think there's

1055
01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:35,120
Speaker 1: some ship missing, particularly as regards the problems authoritarianism is

1056
01:08:35,160 --> 01:08:37,720
Speaker 1: going to cause in reaching for these solutions. But I

1057
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:41,360
Speaker 1: think it's still really really valuable. And Chris, we're gonna

1058
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:49,320
Speaker 1: hear your responses. But first capitalism, Chris reading reading a

1059
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:54,320
Speaker 1: few things, Um, really more Chuang which is a theoretical

1060
01:08:54,360 --> 01:08:57,040
Speaker 1: journal about China that writes a lot of very very

1061
01:08:57,080 --> 01:09:00,640
Speaker 1: good stuff. They have probably the best account have ever

1062
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:04,799
Speaker 1: seen of just what was going on during the socialist

1063
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:07,200
Speaker 1: period and then also the sort of transition to capitalism

1064
01:09:07,400 --> 01:09:09,080
Speaker 1: that those are those are those are issues one and two,

1065
01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:13,719
Speaker 1: and they just published an issue about it, basically, how

1066
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:18,840
Speaker 1: the pandemic response happens in China. It's it's absolutely fascinating. Um.

1067
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:20,800
Speaker 1: It's also about sort of is this something that yeah,

1068
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:22,640
Speaker 1: I've I've talked about a lot of their stuff on

1069
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:25,519
Speaker 1: the show, sort of obliquely or directly, but like, you know,

1070
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:27,400
Speaker 1: one of one of the big things is about how,

1071
01:09:28,080 --> 01:09:29,800
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, the pandemic reveals the sort

1072
01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:31,880
Speaker 1: of weakness of the Chinese state and in a way

1073
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:37,040
Speaker 1: that you know it is you don't see really because

1074
01:09:37,120 --> 01:09:38,840
Speaker 1: both both you know, both the Chinese state and the

1075
01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:41,280
Speaker 1: sort of like American media have this vested interest in

1076
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:44,520
Speaker 1: showing like China's is sort of like all powerful authoritarian

1077
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:46,840
Speaker 1: police state or whatever. Like the miliar image of it

1078
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:49,960
Speaker 1: is like this isn't but you know what what you

1079
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:53,600
Speaker 1: really see is that like this, the state has a

1080
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:56,360
Speaker 1: very strong ability to intervene in like one province at

1081
01:09:56,360 --> 01:09:58,400
Speaker 1: a time, and they can you know when when when

1082
01:09:58,400 --> 01:09:59,720
Speaker 1: they focus, when they focus all of the sort of

1083
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 1: miss of power on like one area, right, they're extremely effective.

1084
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:06,479
Speaker 1: They can't really do it in you know, multiplayers at

1085
01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:07,840
Speaker 1: the same time. And this means that you're dealing with

1086
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:10,680
Speaker 1: all these sort of regional government stuff and it's it's

1087
01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:15,120
Speaker 1: very interesting. The the other thing that I have, well, okay,

1088
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:18,559
Speaker 1: so do do we want to talk like a little

1089
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:20,240
Speaker 1: bit about dawn of everything or do you want to

1090
01:10:20,240 --> 01:10:23,320
Speaker 1: save that for just like yeah, I I'm down to

1091
01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:25,920
Speaker 1: talk about that at any point. Yeah, ok, yeah, that's

1092
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:28,720
Speaker 1: definitely on my list. That is a long one that's

1093
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:30,720
Speaker 1: less of a read I think where most people are

1094
01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:32,160
Speaker 1: going to be less of a read in one sweep

1095
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:34,559
Speaker 1: than like maybe for over the course of the year,

1096
01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:38,360
Speaker 1: like gradually. Yeah. Yeah, it's very very dense and very long,

1097
01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:40,400
Speaker 1: but very readable. Like not to say that it's like

1098
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:44,640
Speaker 1: dense in the I gotta like slog through this textbook.

1099
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:47,519
Speaker 1: It's extremely readable. It's just like there's a lot in

1100
01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:51,679
Speaker 1: there and you're gonna want to pause and think about ship. Yeah,

1101
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:53,680
Speaker 1: so so they don't have everything is this is the

1102
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:57,360
Speaker 1: last book David Graber ever wrote, and it's David wen

1103
01:10:57,360 --> 01:11:01,400
Speaker 1: Grow also. They wrote it together, and it's it's this

1104
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:10,960
Speaker 1: basically an attempt to reassemble I guess, early human history.

1105
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:14,080
Speaker 1: And but the thing that they're doing that that's that's

1106
01:11:15,479 --> 01:11:20,559
Speaker 1: really unique is that so they they're David one grows

1107
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:24,360
Speaker 1: as archaeologist David Graeber's and an apologists and they're they're going,

1108
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:25,840
Speaker 1: you know, so they spent a whole bunch of time

1109
01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:29,760
Speaker 1: going through the sort of early archaeological records, and what

1110
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:34,680
Speaker 1: they find, basically is that none of the things that

1111
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:39,400
Speaker 1: you see make any sense at all unless you're willing

1112
01:11:39,479 --> 01:11:44,600
Speaker 1: to unless you're willing to accept that people you know,

1113
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:47,479
Speaker 1: years ago, and then even you know, people like four

1114
01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:50,960
Speaker 1: hive thousand years ago, we're as smart as we are

1115
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:54,599
Speaker 1: and have the have the capacity to recreate and redesign

1116
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:58,360
Speaker 1: their own political arrangements selfconsciously, which is something that doesn't

1117
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:03,040
Speaker 1: sound that weird, except everyone assumes that they can't, and

1118
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:05,200
Speaker 1: that you know, everyone that's you know, One of the

1119
01:12:05,200 --> 01:12:08,000
Speaker 1: other things that they're they're really sort of heavily doing

1120
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:12,599
Speaker 1: here is trying to break this idea that you know,

1121
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:15,960
Speaker 1: human society sort of evolves in these this linear progression.

1122
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:17,280
Speaker 1: You know, you start out with like these small hunter

1123
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:20,920
Speaker 1: gatherer bands and they get more complex quote unquote eventually

1124
01:12:20,920 --> 01:12:23,000
Speaker 1: they developed farming, and farming developed the state. And the

1125
01:12:23,040 --> 01:12:24,600
Speaker 1: answer is just, you know, when you look through the

1126
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:28,240
Speaker 1: actual archaeological record, none of this is true. You have,

1127
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:30,519
Speaker 1: you know, they have a lot of very interesting sort

1128
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:34,360
Speaker 1: of historical examples of this, looking at like what looked

1129
01:12:34,360 --> 01:12:37,040
Speaker 1: like incredibly democratic and egalitarian cities, and then you know,

1130
01:12:37,040 --> 01:12:38,919
Speaker 1: on the outskirts of those cities you have the emergence

1131
01:12:38,920 --> 01:12:41,920
Speaker 1: of the states among things that look like states, among

1132
01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:45,360
Speaker 1: barbarian groups. And they have and what I think is

1133
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:47,800
Speaker 1: maybe the most interesting part of it is that they're

1134
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:51,559
Speaker 1: they're very concerned with the question of human freedom, but

1135
01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:56,839
Speaker 1: freedom in a way that like, we don't like freedom

1136
01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:59,200
Speaker 1: on a level fundamental enough that like we can barely

1137
01:12:59,240 --> 01:13:02,280
Speaker 1: imagine it. So they have these things called the Three freedoms,

1138
01:13:02,320 --> 01:13:04,840
Speaker 1: which is one of them is so the first one

1139
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:09,439
Speaker 1: is the freedom just move to leave and to it's

1140
01:13:09,439 --> 01:13:11,160
Speaker 1: it's the freedom to to you know, be in a

1141
01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:13,200
Speaker 1: place and then leave and know that you will be

1142
01:13:13,240 --> 01:13:16,679
Speaker 1: cared for when you get to wherever you're going. Yeah,

1143
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:19,000
Speaker 1: these kind of networks that were set up so that

1144
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:21,800
Speaker 1: people could travel that have like the descendant of those

1145
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:23,920
Speaker 1: ideas is sort of the way if you ever if

1146
01:13:23,920 --> 01:13:26,000
Speaker 1: you've ever spent time in the Middle East, not in

1147
01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:29,000
Speaker 1: like hotels and ship like it's that same idea that

1148
01:13:29,120 --> 01:13:33,360
Speaker 1: kind of deeper than religious belief about the importance of

1149
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:36,200
Speaker 1: that has gotten added to like Islam and into a

1150
01:13:36,280 --> 01:13:38,720
Speaker 1: number of other faiths in the area. Like, but this

1151
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:42,120
Speaker 1: idea that like there's nothing more sacred than taking care

1152
01:13:42,160 --> 01:13:45,519
Speaker 1: of a of a guest um like and and how

1153
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:48,960
Speaker 1: that that that existed to enable kind of a sort

1154
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:53,320
Speaker 1: of cross cultural contract and contact and like recreational travel

1155
01:13:53,720 --> 01:13:55,799
Speaker 1: in a way that I think it would be deeply

1156
01:13:55,840 --> 01:13:59,360
Speaker 1: surprising to people who just sort of assumed everyone before

1157
01:13:59,360 --> 01:14:02,320
Speaker 1: a certain age died within five miles of their house

1158
01:14:02,479 --> 01:14:04,600
Speaker 1: or was you know, yeah, part of a band of

1159
01:14:04,680 --> 01:14:07,400
Speaker 1: wandering hunters. Yeah. And it's it's interesting in that like,

1160
01:14:07,400 --> 01:14:09,639
Speaker 1: like like we we in a lot of ways travel

1161
01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:11,960
Speaker 1: less than early people did, because you know that people

1162
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:14,519
Speaker 1: would just leave and people, you know, people just didn't

1163
01:14:14,520 --> 01:14:16,760
Speaker 1: like their families, and so they'd walk like five miles

1164
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:18,559
Speaker 1: and they they'd come to a place and they'd be accepted.

1165
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:21,400
Speaker 1: And yeah, and you know, and like the second one

1166
01:14:21,439 --> 01:14:24,280
Speaker 1: that I think is the one that is the one

1167
01:14:24,360 --> 01:14:26,719
Speaker 1: we have the least capacity, I think to understand, which

1168
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:30,960
Speaker 1: is just the ability to disobey orders. Just like anyone

1169
01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:32,320
Speaker 1: tells you do something, you could just tell them know

1170
01:14:33,120 --> 01:14:35,080
Speaker 1: at any time. And it's not only can you just

1171
01:14:35,080 --> 01:14:38,600
Speaker 1: tell them no, Like the social expectation is that you

1172
01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:41,040
Speaker 1: is that you don't act, is that it's it's it's

1173
01:14:41,040 --> 01:14:42,559
Speaker 1: it's not just that you have the ability to do it.

1174
01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:45,759
Speaker 1: It's that someone giving you an order is treated as weird.

1175
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:49,439
Speaker 1: And this is a thing that you know, like like this,

1176
01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:51,280
Speaker 1: this is the thing. This is a freedom that used

1177
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:53,800
Speaker 1: to exist and no longer does and was sort of

1178
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:56,160
Speaker 1: destroying various ways along with sort of the third freedom

1179
01:14:56,160 --> 01:14:58,760
Speaker 1: to talk about, which is about how people have the

1180
01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:01,479
Speaker 1: right to sort of just shift and recreate their their

1181
01:15:01,479 --> 01:15:06,160
Speaker 1: social political arrangements. And yeah, and people used to do

1182
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:08,320
Speaker 1: this sort of I mean people, you know a lot

1183
01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:09,960
Speaker 1: of the what the early part of the book is

1184
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:12,800
Speaker 1: about is about how societies you there there's a lot

1185
01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:14,720
Speaker 1: of societies that would you know, flip seasonally, right, so

1186
01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:16,600
Speaker 1: what like one half of the year you have this

1187
01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:19,040
Speaker 1: just like absolutelytatorship. The other half of the year it's like,

1188
01:15:19,080 --> 01:15:22,200
Speaker 1: well it looks like a hippie commune. And you know

1189
01:15:22,320 --> 01:15:25,080
Speaker 1: the fact that we do not like the fact that

1190
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:28,920
Speaker 1: like we we we just don't like it, cannot conceive

1191
01:15:28,960 --> 01:15:33,320
Speaker 1: of completely shifting our political arrangements like that is. It's

1192
01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:37,719
Speaker 1: also there's this fascinating discussion of like the fact that

1193
01:15:38,439 --> 01:15:40,720
Speaker 1: and this is kind of counter to what I had

1194
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:43,479
Speaker 1: always kind of thought that like once as a group

1195
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:46,000
Speaker 1: groups of people when they when they made the decision

1196
01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:50,400
Speaker 1: to like move to agriculture um and like set founded cities,

1197
01:15:50,680 --> 01:15:52,840
Speaker 1: that it was kind of a one way street. You know,

1198
01:15:53,040 --> 01:15:55,320
Speaker 1: you you just keep going along that road. And there's

1199
01:15:55,320 --> 01:15:58,680
Speaker 1: actually multiple examples of people's like this is what what

1200
01:15:58,720 --> 01:16:01,320
Speaker 1: happened to the British aisles, or at least in what

1201
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:06,519
Speaker 1: is currently Great Britain. People's like developing agriculture, settling down

1202
01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:08,240
Speaker 1: and then being like oh, you know what, fuck this

1203
01:16:08,520 --> 01:16:11,080
Speaker 1: and like going back like that that should should happen

1204
01:16:11,120 --> 01:16:13,439
Speaker 1: all the time. And one of the things that's really

1205
01:16:13,560 --> 01:16:17,439
Speaker 1: kind of optimistic about the vision of of the sweep

1206
01:16:17,439 --> 01:16:19,960
Speaker 1: of human history in the dawn of everything is the

1207
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:23,200
Speaker 1: idea that like, no, we don't have to keep like

1208
01:16:23,240 --> 01:16:26,040
Speaker 1: it's not inevitable that we just keep doing more of

1209
01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:28,960
Speaker 1: what we're doing now. All throughout history, large groups of

1210
01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:31,679
Speaker 1: people have been like, it's time to let's do something else,

1211
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:35,080
Speaker 1: let's make a radical change, like it happens um And

1212
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:38,040
Speaker 1: it's probably more normal to do that than it is

1213
01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:40,120
Speaker 1: to do what we've been doing. And when you I

1214
01:16:40,160 --> 01:16:42,760
Speaker 1: think one of the things that kind of one of

1215
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:44,680
Speaker 1: the things that leads to the sense of inevitability of

1216
01:16:44,720 --> 01:16:46,840
Speaker 1: development along the lines that we have is is the

1217
01:16:46,840 --> 01:16:48,960
Speaker 1: fact that we only really have about ten thousand years

1218
01:16:48,960 --> 01:16:54,480
Speaker 1: of even vaguely reliable like data um or vaguely comprehensive

1219
01:16:54,560 --> 01:16:57,960
Speaker 1: data on human history. But people have been around for

1220
01:16:58,200 --> 01:17:00,280
Speaker 1: tens of thousands of years longer than that, and for

1221
01:17:00,400 --> 01:17:03,200
Speaker 1: most of it we've been a lot more experimental than

1222
01:17:03,240 --> 01:17:06,759
Speaker 1: we are now. And it's it's always possible for people

1223
01:17:06,840 --> 01:17:10,400
Speaker 1: to try different things in a way that um maybe

1224
01:17:10,439 --> 01:17:14,479
Speaker 1: seems impossible to us now but but necessarily won't for

1225
01:17:14,520 --> 01:17:17,559
Speaker 1: our kids. Oh yeah, The last thing I would tell

1226
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:19,479
Speaker 1: people to listen to if they're looking for a fictional

1227
01:17:19,680 --> 01:17:23,800
Speaker 1: optimistic thing is Corey Doctors walk Away. Um, give it

1228
01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:26,599
Speaker 1: a read. And if you're if you're looking for like

1229
01:17:26,640 --> 01:17:30,760
Speaker 1: a a like a beautiful like not to get your

1230
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:32,920
Speaker 1: head out of the One of the things I'm really

1231
01:17:32,920 --> 01:17:35,960
Speaker 1: passionate about is plants. And I have this beautiful book

1232
01:17:35,960 --> 01:17:39,799
Speaker 1: called the Planet Pedia and it's really helpful for caring

1233
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:42,240
Speaker 1: for your house plants. And it's just like aesthetically just such.

1234
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:45,280
Speaker 1: The photographs are beautiful and it's one of my favorite

1235
01:17:45,280 --> 01:17:48,040
Speaker 1: things to give friends and family. To check that one

1236
01:17:48,080 --> 01:17:51,000
Speaker 1: out as well. Another another plant book that I just

1237
01:17:51,080 --> 01:17:53,639
Speaker 1: got for somebody that I really like. I think it's

1238
01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:56,920
Speaker 1: called Wicked Plants. It's about all the courses plants that

1239
01:17:57,160 --> 01:18:00,120
Speaker 1: you can get um and the ones all the the

1240
01:18:00,160 --> 01:18:02,760
Speaker 1: poison plants you can cultivate in your own garden. And

1241
01:18:02,840 --> 01:18:05,960
Speaker 1: that's been a lovely read. Um, and I do hope

1242
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:08,759
Speaker 1: to set up a decent poison garden here in the spring.

1243
01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:13,240
Speaker 1: So very excited. Yeah me too, It's going to be great. Well,

1244
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:18,320
Speaker 1: let's get to another question. Um, do you guys want

1245
01:18:18,320 --> 01:18:22,439
Speaker 1: like a fluff question or like a real question? Uh?

1246
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:24,680
Speaker 1: Let's do a fluff one and we can start the

1247
01:18:24,720 --> 01:18:29,040
Speaker 1: next episode with a real, real juicy fluff me daddy,

1248
01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:32,000
Speaker 1: all right, Okay, that's a little gift to all of

1249
01:18:32,040 --> 01:18:39,160
Speaker 1: you at home. On the topic of hobbies, so so

1250
01:18:39,240 --> 01:18:44,280
Speaker 1: I just Garrison likes poisonous plants. I like non poisonous plants. Uh,

1251
01:18:44,439 --> 01:18:51,280
Speaker 1: what hobbies are you into that we may not know about? Um?

1252
01:18:51,320 --> 01:18:54,639
Speaker 1: I guess I can only say one thing here. Really well,

1253
01:18:54,760 --> 01:18:57,360
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, you should be really careful about

1254
01:18:57,360 --> 01:19:01,160
Speaker 1: how you answer this one. I know what your hobbies are.

1255
01:19:02,880 --> 01:19:07,000
Speaker 1: Let's have everyone else go first. UM. I just got

1256
01:19:07,040 --> 01:19:09,400
Speaker 1: into three D printing. I'm currently trying to figure out

1257
01:19:09,400 --> 01:19:13,880
Speaker 1: how to get a BS to act adhere properly. Yeah.

1258
01:19:13,920 --> 01:19:16,080
Speaker 1: That was the problem I had with my printer is

1259
01:19:16,120 --> 01:19:18,599
Speaker 1: that it would I would get like a decent way

1260
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:20,160
Speaker 1: through the first part of the print, and then part

1261
01:19:20,160 --> 01:19:22,680
Speaker 1: of it would like come curl off, so then it

1262
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:25,000
Speaker 1: wouldn't print the next layer on correctly. Then it must

1263
01:19:25,160 --> 01:19:28,840
Speaker 1: up the print. And yeah, I was between mental health

1264
01:19:28,880 --> 01:19:31,320
Speaker 1: stuff and that at the time. I was s today

1265
01:19:31,320 --> 01:19:32,840
Speaker 1: on my printer. This is when I just gave up

1266
01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:35,519
Speaker 1: because it was too much. So I'll be excited to

1267
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:38,960
Speaker 1: see how you get past this turtle. Well, I've I've

1268
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:42,920
Speaker 1: got a glass bed coming in, so I'm gonna yeah,

1269
01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:45,160
Speaker 1: and I've I've got the enclosure. One of the issues

1270
01:19:45,200 --> 01:19:47,519
Speaker 1: I'm having is just that I'm having a heating issue

1271
01:19:47,560 --> 01:19:50,000
Speaker 1: with the bed. It won't heat up. It stops before

1272
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:51,679
Speaker 1: it gets to one tin, which is what it should

1273
01:19:51,680 --> 01:19:53,639
Speaker 1: be able to go up that high. But it's just, yeah,

1274
01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:59,400
Speaker 1: can you manually heat it up hotter? It doesn't seem

1275
01:19:59,439 --> 01:20:01,800
Speaker 1: to matter. It doesn't seem to matter if I if

1276
01:20:01,840 --> 01:20:03,880
Speaker 1: I said it, like I can't obviously, like you can.

1277
01:20:04,000 --> 01:20:05,680
Speaker 1: You can set it up to heat, but it just

1278
01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:08,640
Speaker 1: keeps I keep getting that like loud error beep. So

1279
01:20:08,680 --> 01:20:10,720
Speaker 1: there's like there's this is going to be It's going

1280
01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:13,839
Speaker 1: to be a process of jiggering to to to figure

1281
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:18,120
Speaker 1: it out. Um, but you can, Yeah, I have, I have.

1282
01:20:18,320 --> 01:20:21,000
Speaker 1: I've I have a similar problem with my setup right

1283
01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:22,880
Speaker 1: now that I've been trying to troubleshoot for the half

1284
01:20:22,920 --> 01:20:26,720
Speaker 1: a year. Um, I can manually control the heat bed

1285
01:20:26,760 --> 01:20:29,559
Speaker 1: and it does get that hot. But still I think

1286
01:20:29,640 --> 01:20:31,400
Speaker 1: it may just be a leveling issue. I may need

1287
01:20:31,439 --> 01:20:34,080
Speaker 1: to like clean the bed. I also should have talked

1288
01:20:34,080 --> 01:20:37,320
Speaker 1: to someone who has done more three D printing than me. Um.

1289
01:20:37,360 --> 01:20:40,640
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, but it's it's it's fun. I I

1290
01:20:40,760 --> 01:20:43,360
Speaker 1: enjoy it. It's very it's radically different from the stuff

1291
01:20:43,400 --> 01:20:46,400
Speaker 1: that I like do for a living um, which is

1292
01:20:46,600 --> 01:20:49,439
Speaker 1: always my favorite thing for like a a task to

1293
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:52,880
Speaker 1: engage in in order to be relaxing, because it's it's

1294
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:56,519
Speaker 1: not at all like reading and writing. It's very different.

1295
01:20:56,920 --> 01:20:59,320
Speaker 1: It's very different. So so far, I'm enjoying it. And

1296
01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:01,080
Speaker 1: I already I printed the thing I need to do

1297
01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:07,360
Speaker 1: to make the the bio um the biolab for like

1298
01:21:07,439 --> 01:21:09,400
Speaker 1: the Four Thieves stuff. If you want to check out

1299
01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:12,600
Speaker 1: our episode with Michael from the Four Thieves Vinegar Collective.

1300
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:14,960
Speaker 1: I've three D printed that part, so I'm ready to

1301
01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:18,400
Speaker 1: get the other parts and put that thing together. Um.

1302
01:21:18,439 --> 01:21:20,160
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to figure out how to print other

1303
01:21:20,200 --> 01:21:23,519
Speaker 1: stuff with better plastics and whatnot. But yeah, it's it's fun.

1304
01:21:23,600 --> 01:21:27,160
Speaker 1: So far, I'm I'm enjoying it a lot. Um. Maybe

1305
01:21:27,200 --> 01:21:30,160
Speaker 1: I'll get bored, Maybe I'll wind up spending way too

1306
01:21:30,240 --> 01:21:32,240
Speaker 1: much money on different three D printers, like the ones

1307
01:21:32,280 --> 01:21:36,760
Speaker 1: that lift the goo out of the resin printers are there.

1308
01:21:37,000 --> 01:21:40,200
Speaker 1: They's so they're much like this is what this is

1309
01:21:40,360 --> 01:21:42,360
Speaker 1: what Corey doctor was talking about, Like, like they are

1310
01:21:42,479 --> 01:21:45,200
Speaker 1: much better at the filament printers in a lot of ways,

1311
01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:48,800
Speaker 1: but a lot of like a lot of the stuff.

1312
01:21:49,520 --> 01:21:52,240
Speaker 1: A lot of the really useful machines that you can

1313
01:21:52,320 --> 01:21:56,000
Speaker 1: make with three printers require you to use filaments right now, um,

1314
01:21:56,040 --> 01:21:59,400
Speaker 1: but the resin ones are like so much more elegant.

1315
01:21:59,680 --> 01:22:02,519
Speaker 1: They're beautiful. Um. I also am really interested in the

1316
01:22:02,560 --> 01:22:05,160
Speaker 1: idea of printing would which I did not realize until

1317
01:22:05,200 --> 01:22:08,040
Speaker 1: recently you could do but it's absolutely possible with certain

1318
01:22:08,120 --> 01:22:12,360
Speaker 1: kinds of printers. Um, And that seems pretty dope. So

1319
01:22:12,520 --> 01:22:15,240
Speaker 1: I don't know, we'll see how. Maybe I'll be tired

1320
01:22:15,280 --> 01:22:17,400
Speaker 1: of it in a month because my mental health will

1321
01:22:17,400 --> 01:22:23,240
Speaker 1: take a dive, But so far, I'm pretty excited. Cool Chris,

1322
01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:27,519
Speaker 1: what do I do? Uh? Well, Okay, so before the pandemic,

1323
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:31,800
Speaker 1: I was getting into rock climbing. But unfortunately, like like

1324
01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:33,640
Speaker 1: I like rock climbing, I'm not like, oh, it's like

1325
01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:35,880
Speaker 1: the best thing you can do for you. It's a

1326
01:22:35,880 --> 01:22:40,120
Speaker 1: lot of fun, but unfortunately, I mean it's not like

1327
01:22:40,160 --> 01:22:43,519
Speaker 1: the worst pandemic thing you could possibly do, but like

1328
01:22:43,800 --> 01:22:46,960
Speaker 1: it's no So if you get up high enough on

1329
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:51,360
Speaker 1: the rocks. COVID can't get up there. It's like the

1330
01:22:51,400 --> 01:22:55,960
Speaker 1: opposite of a bear. It's really bad at climbing. Yes,

1331
01:22:55,960 --> 01:22:58,519
Speaker 1: so I guess the other what do I even do?

1332
01:22:58,600 --> 01:23:02,559
Speaker 1: Is Okay? So my other thing okay, so so deep

1333
01:23:02,720 --> 01:23:06,160
Speaker 1: like deep Twitter lure. People will probably know this about me,

1334
01:23:06,240 --> 01:23:08,720
Speaker 1: But I am I have been for a very very

1335
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:14,680
Speaker 1: long time, like an inveterate fan of competitive StarCraft two. Okay,

1336
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:17,639
Speaker 1: I am awful at it, Like I am terrible at

1337
01:23:17,680 --> 01:23:21,479
Speaker 1: that game. But I have watched so much StarCraft two,

1338
01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:24,280
Speaker 1: like I I StarCraft two has become enough of my

1339
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:27,760
Speaker 1: life that like, like the game was part of my

1340
01:23:27,880 --> 01:23:33,840
Speaker 1: radicalization process, like so yeah, I wake up extremely early

1341
01:23:33,960 --> 01:23:36,439
Speaker 1: or stay up extremely late and watched Korean StarCraft two

1342
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:39,040
Speaker 1: and non Korean StarCraft two, and yeah, it's it's a

1343
01:23:39,040 --> 01:23:43,720
Speaker 1: good time. It's I My favorite thing about StarCraft in

1344
01:23:43,760 --> 01:23:47,639
Speaker 1: general is thinking about the fact that Blizzard was initially

1345
01:23:47,640 --> 01:23:50,719
Speaker 1: trying to make a Warhammer forty video game, and Games

1346
01:23:50,720 --> 01:23:53,880
Speaker 1: Workshop was as always too paranoid of their I p

1347
01:23:54,160 --> 01:23:56,800
Speaker 1: to let it happen, and thus lost how many god

1348
01:23:56,880 --> 01:23:58,760
Speaker 1: knows how many. They would be worth more money than

1349
01:23:58,760 --> 01:24:04,040
Speaker 1: most countries like, yeah, been printing an impossible amount of money,

1350
01:24:04,640 --> 01:24:10,600
Speaker 1: like Indie Chambers would have been able to buy a

1351
01:24:11,280 --> 01:24:17,360
Speaker 1: mountain of cocaine to live inside, but but no, instead

1352
01:24:17,400 --> 01:24:21,000
Speaker 1: we got all of the infrastructure of modern esports. Mm hm,

1353
01:24:21,800 --> 01:24:24,639
Speaker 1: which it seems fine, like it's whatever, I don't care,

1354
01:24:24,760 --> 01:24:27,320
Speaker 1: but it is very funny to me that they were like, nah,

1355
01:24:27,520 --> 01:24:31,240
Speaker 1: this doesn't seem like a good financial decision for games Workshop,

1356
01:24:32,160 --> 01:24:36,120
Speaker 1: this StarCraft thing, Like I wonder like that. That's the

1357
01:24:36,200 --> 01:24:37,600
Speaker 1: kind of thing where it's like, if they made that

1358
01:24:37,680 --> 01:24:40,680
Speaker 1: much money, would they all just retire? Like well, I

1359
01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:43,600
Speaker 1: mean it's a publicly traded company, like the stock the

1360
01:24:43,680 --> 01:24:48,320
Speaker 1: shareholders would have made a fortune and the but yeah,

1361
01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:50,559
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's very it's very funny that they

1362
01:24:50,560 --> 01:24:53,679
Speaker 1: didn't think that was going to be worth it. Let's see,

1363
01:24:53,680 --> 01:24:56,080
Speaker 1: in terms of how these people may not know. I

1364
01:24:56,200 --> 01:24:59,479
Speaker 1: do really like cooking. I take cooking classes for a

1365
01:24:59,560 --> 01:25:03,160
Speaker 1: long time. Um that's been the main cook in my

1366
01:25:03,200 --> 01:25:06,000
Speaker 1: family since I was a very little kid, so I

1367
01:25:06,080 --> 01:25:10,400
Speaker 1: definitely definitely enjoy that. Um. I did go to film

1368
01:25:10,439 --> 01:25:12,240
Speaker 1: school for a few years. I want to get back

1369
01:25:12,280 --> 01:25:18,080
Speaker 1: into making short video projects. I've been writing some random

1370
01:25:18,200 --> 01:25:22,240
Speaker 1: kind of new weird genre esque stuff that I would

1371
01:25:22,240 --> 01:25:25,439
Speaker 1: love to like rent a studio space and actually shoot

1372
01:25:25,560 --> 01:25:29,800
Speaker 1: some silly things in the next year and throw them

1373
01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:33,640
Speaker 1: up online just for kind of my own fun. Um.

1374
01:25:33,760 --> 01:25:38,959
Speaker 1: And then I also been still doing random occultism stuff. Um,

1375
01:25:39,000 --> 01:25:45,840
Speaker 1: that's kind of how I feel my time. Yeah, it's fun. Yeah.

1376
01:25:45,960 --> 01:25:48,160
Speaker 1: I think that's an answer. That is an answer. We

1377
01:25:48,240 --> 01:25:54,040
Speaker 1: did it. That's an answer, and more importantly, that's an episode.

1378
01:25:53,040 --> 01:25:56,839
Speaker 1: That episode that is an answer. That is a single content.

1379
01:25:57,040 --> 01:25:59,240
Speaker 1: You all got a content out of us, and will

1380
01:25:59,479 --> 01:26:04,240
Speaker 1: be proud of yourselves, replicate and reproduce another content tomorrow

1381
01:26:04,280 --> 01:26:07,840
Speaker 1: that's more eased to your cues. So a content every

1382
01:26:07,920 --> 01:26:12,080
Speaker 1: day except for the weekends, because that's the promises that

1383
01:26:12,160 --> 01:26:24,360
Speaker 1: we make and some holidays. Look for your children's eyes

1384
01:26:24,640 --> 01:26:27,519
Speaker 1: to see the true magic of a forest. It's a

1385
01:26:27,640 --> 01:26:30,759
Speaker 1: storybook world for them. You look and see a tree.

1386
01:26:31,200 --> 01:26:34,080
Speaker 1: They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms

1387
01:26:34,160 --> 01:26:37,960
Speaker 1: outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They

1388
01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:41,040
Speaker 1: see a windy path that could lead to adventure, and

1389
01:26:41,120 --> 01:26:45,320
Speaker 1: they see you. They're fearless. Guide. Is this fascinating world.

1390
01:26:45,680 --> 01:26:48,519
Speaker 1: Find a forest near you and start exploring and Discover

1391
01:26:48,600 --> 01:26:50,840
Speaker 1: the Forest dot org, brought to you by the United

1392
01:26:50,880 --> 01:26:54,200
Speaker 1: States Forest Service and the AD Council. Give us over attention.

1393
01:26:54,240 --> 01:26:57,360
Speaker 1: We need everything you've got Fast Waiting on Reparations. We'd

1394
01:26:57,400 --> 01:27:01,840
Speaker 1: beat the podcast every Thursday, politics and wordplay. We fight

1395
01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:04,080
Speaker 1: for the people because they got us in the worst way,

1396
01:27:04,280 --> 01:27:07,280
Speaker 1: from the Hill Cooper, the Bomb Bay to Kant, from

1397
01:27:07,280 --> 01:27:10,280
Speaker 1: the left enclave to what the neo kanse every th

1398
01:27:11,160 --> 01:27:13,479
Speaker 1: heavy conversation and to break us off with some break

1399
01:27:13,479 --> 01:27:18,080
Speaker 1: because we're waiting. Listen to Waiting on Reparations on the

1400
01:27:18,080 --> 01:27:21,080
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get

1401
01:27:21,120 --> 01:27:25,439
Speaker 1: your podcasts. Raffie is the voice of some of the

1402
01:27:25,600 --> 01:27:31,640
Speaker 1: happiest songs of our generation. Baby So who is the

1403
01:27:31,680 --> 01:27:36,040
Speaker 1: man behind Baby Bluga? Every human being wants to feel

1404
01:27:36,080 --> 01:27:40,559
Speaker 1: respected when we start with you at all good things

1405
01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:44,040
Speaker 1: can grow from there. I'm Chris Garcia, comedian, new dad

1406
01:27:44,160 --> 01:27:46,800
Speaker 1: and host of Finding Raffie, a new podcast from my

1407
01:27:46,880 --> 01:27:50,080
Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Fatherly. Listen every Tuesday on the I

1408
01:27:50,160 --> 01:27:59,479
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome

1409
01:27:59,520 --> 01:28:02,680
Speaker 1: Back It could happen here, the podcast where Jay your

1410
01:28:02,720 --> 01:28:05,400
Speaker 1: Boltonaro was once again in the hospital getting all of

1411
01:28:05,439 --> 01:28:16,600
Speaker 1: the feats sucked out of his hospital. The most consistently

1412
01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:19,920
Speaker 1: dying man in the world. You know what, this man

1413
01:28:19,960 --> 01:28:23,040
Speaker 1: in history, you know, actually literally full of ship again,

1414
01:28:23,640 --> 01:28:27,720
Speaker 1: you know what? You know what this means. It approximately

1415
01:28:28,680 --> 01:28:32,560
Speaker 1: three four weeks, Stephen Crowder is going to get some

1416
01:28:32,800 --> 01:28:36,960
Speaker 1: horrible illness. And if we said to the hospitals, well

1417
01:28:37,560 --> 01:28:41,720
Speaker 1: the cycle, this is the only like the cycling. My

1418
01:28:41,840 --> 01:28:43,840
Speaker 1: hope for both of them is that they find out

1419
01:28:43,840 --> 01:28:46,679
Speaker 1: that each has an obscure disease that can only be

1420
01:28:46,880 --> 01:28:49,280
Speaker 1: cured by piping ship from the other into them, and

1421
01:28:49,280 --> 01:28:51,559
Speaker 1: so they just hook them up via a tube and

1422
01:28:51,600 --> 01:28:53,559
Speaker 1: they're just sucking poop out of each of them and

1423
01:28:53,600 --> 01:28:56,160
Speaker 1: putting it into the other person. That would be very

1424
01:28:56,200 --> 01:29:00,479
Speaker 1: funny hot all right, what's her first question? Our first question?

1425
01:29:00,520 --> 01:29:02,880
Speaker 1: So this was specifically addressed to Chris, So Chris, you

1426
01:29:02,880 --> 01:29:04,679
Speaker 1: can answer first. But I think this is a question

1427
01:29:04,760 --> 01:29:07,800
Speaker 1: for for everyone. Really, what is your favorite piece of

1428
01:29:07,880 --> 01:29:10,519
Speaker 1: history that you haven't been able to talk about yet

1429
01:29:10,560 --> 01:29:14,080
Speaker 1: on the show that isn't deserving of a whole episode

1430
01:29:15,720 --> 01:29:19,680
Speaker 1: favorite piece of I mean, we ain't talked about the

1431
01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:24,520
Speaker 1: Zapatista as yet because I don't I don't yet feel comfortable,

1432
01:29:24,880 --> 01:29:28,000
Speaker 1: uh with with my level of knowledge there. But it's

1433
01:29:28,000 --> 01:29:32,120
Speaker 1: definitely history that's extremely relevant to the kind of ship

1434
01:29:32,200 --> 01:29:38,160
Speaker 1: we talked about on the show. Have I talked about

1435
01:29:38,160 --> 01:29:41,200
Speaker 1: the water and gas wars and Bolivia on the show?

1436
01:29:42,640 --> 01:29:44,679
Speaker 1: We've talked about that at all? Either? Yeah, I mean althought.

1437
01:29:44,680 --> 01:29:47,000
Speaker 1: I mean that that probably is deserving of its own episode.

1438
01:29:47,040 --> 01:29:50,839
Speaker 1: But absolutely a bunch of people just literally like blocking

1439
01:29:50,880 --> 01:29:52,800
Speaker 1: every road in the entire country and starving out the

1440
01:29:52,920 --> 01:29:55,320
Speaker 1: ruling class because they can't like import food into the

1441
01:29:55,320 --> 01:29:58,680
Speaker 1: city because they've blocked every single road. Extremely cool, I

1442
01:29:58,720 --> 01:30:04,880
Speaker 1: guess in terms of like really short, not deserving of

1443
01:30:04,960 --> 01:30:09,240
Speaker 1: its own episode. I don't know either, because I've I've

1444
01:30:09,280 --> 01:30:13,280
Speaker 1: been able to elongate all my periods into episodes. Yeah,

1445
01:30:13,280 --> 01:30:15,040
Speaker 1: I don't know that there's anything we wouldn't cover. There's

1446
01:30:15,040 --> 01:30:17,799
Speaker 1: certainly things we haven't covered yet for a variety of reasons.

1447
01:30:17,840 --> 01:30:20,120
Speaker 1: Often just like I don't feel like we've had the

1448
01:30:20,120 --> 01:30:22,200
Speaker 1: time to do a lot of work. There's a lot

1449
01:30:22,240 --> 01:30:24,679
Speaker 1: of work. Yeah, it's like why why haven't why haven't

1450
01:30:24,720 --> 01:30:26,439
Speaker 1: we done a MAO episodes? Like do you know how

1451
01:30:26,479 --> 01:30:29,800
Speaker 1: much ship that motherfucker got in his life? I have

1452
01:30:29,920 --> 01:30:34,200
Speaker 1: been like mentally like psychologically preparing myself to start working

1453
01:30:34,200 --> 01:30:38,920
Speaker 1: on Mao. Like this is a ah, that's that Actually, no,

1454
01:30:40,080 --> 01:30:43,599
Speaker 1: it's the mango cults. It's definitely the mango colts. Did

1455
01:30:43,640 --> 01:30:45,760
Speaker 1: you did you did you know about this? No, the

1456
01:30:45,800 --> 01:30:49,640
Speaker 1: mango Colts. Yeah, okay, So so Mao got like I

1457
01:30:49,720 --> 01:30:52,240
Speaker 1: forget who was I want to say it was the

1458
01:30:52,240 --> 01:30:56,200
Speaker 1: Prime Minister of Pakistan some some like dignitary like gave

1459
01:30:56,280 --> 01:30:57,920
Speaker 1: him a man. This is this is like this is

1460
01:30:57,920 --> 01:30:59,840
Speaker 1: the beginning of the cultural revolution. Somebody gives him a

1461
01:30:59,880 --> 01:31:03,000
Speaker 1: main and he like hands this mango off to like

1462
01:31:03,320 --> 01:31:07,280
Speaker 1: a red mango and like they like like this this

1463
01:31:07,320 --> 01:31:10,400
Speaker 1: turns into like a cult. Like people like they take

1464
01:31:10,439 --> 01:31:12,880
Speaker 1: this mango, they like preserve it. It's it's like they

1465
01:31:12,880 --> 01:31:14,599
Speaker 1: have like they have like a shrine to the mango

1466
01:31:14,720 --> 01:31:18,759
Speaker 1: and like like there's this whole cult apparatus like builds

1467
01:31:18,840 --> 01:31:21,479
Speaker 1: up around just people getting mangoes as like tokens of

1468
01:31:21,520 --> 01:31:24,240
Speaker 1: Mao's favors. This just like this this massive things that

1469
01:31:24,360 --> 01:31:27,599
Speaker 1: is this. This this spreads like wildfire. It's like people

1470
01:31:27,600 --> 01:31:30,519
Speaker 1: are doing this in like the far western reaches of

1471
01:31:30,640 --> 01:31:34,479
Speaker 1: China where like like in places where like there's like

1472
01:31:34,680 --> 01:31:37,560
Speaker 1: like like there there are places in China where like

1473
01:31:37,600 --> 01:31:40,559
Speaker 1: civil wars breakout and it takes people like a week

1474
01:31:40,680 --> 01:31:44,080
Speaker 1: to like send representatives like across China to go like

1475
01:31:44,120 --> 01:31:45,800
Speaker 1: talk to the Central Committee to argue their case, and

1476
01:31:45,840 --> 01:31:48,599
Speaker 1: like even in those places they have mango cults and

1477
01:31:48,640 --> 01:31:51,720
Speaker 1: it is it is wild. The culture revolution is a

1478
01:31:53,080 --> 01:31:56,040
Speaker 1: is a it is a time. It is. Well, I

1479
01:31:56,120 --> 01:31:59,720
Speaker 1: know what I'm getting everyone for Christmas this year. Mango.

1480
01:32:00,280 --> 01:32:03,439
Speaker 1: They're my favorite fruit. Like the Well, we'll see if

1481
01:32:03,439 --> 01:32:08,280
Speaker 1: the species survives this next summer. Oh we will. Yeah,

1482
01:32:09,400 --> 01:32:17,000
Speaker 1: we'll just be growing, just be growing in Siberia. Mangoes

1483
01:32:17,040 --> 01:32:21,519
Speaker 1: sprouting from the corpses of fucking antelope. That is beautiful. Um,

1484
01:32:21,560 --> 01:32:27,799
Speaker 1: I can't think of anything. Next question, okay, uh, speaking

1485
01:32:27,840 --> 01:32:30,639
Speaker 1: of history, I like this one. If you could fight

1486
01:32:30,800 --> 01:32:34,519
Speaker 1: anyone in history, wait for it and lose, who would

1487
01:32:34,560 --> 01:32:38,639
Speaker 1: you fight? And why? Who would I fight and lose

1488
01:32:39,040 --> 01:32:41,880
Speaker 1: and lose? Like you still get like a few good

1489
01:32:41,960 --> 01:32:45,639
Speaker 1: hits in or something, but you'd lose, David Bowie because

1490
01:32:45,680 --> 01:32:50,360
Speaker 1: it would be hot. Next question, other people good answering,

1491
01:32:50,400 --> 01:32:53,439
Speaker 1: I guess no. I think that's a good that's the

1492
01:32:53,520 --> 01:32:58,639
Speaker 1: perfect answer. I would happily be hit by David Bowie,

1493
01:32:58,800 --> 01:33:02,760
Speaker 1: so sure, why there? Yeah, And I know that David

1494
01:33:02,800 --> 01:33:05,759
Speaker 1: Bowie really loved to hit teenagers. I would be totally hitting.

1495
01:33:05,760 --> 01:33:08,720
Speaker 1: In the other sense, I would be fine with anything.

1496
01:33:09,640 --> 01:33:17,840
Speaker 1: I don't care when it comes to Bowie. Wow, that's problematic. Problematic.

1497
01:33:18,280 --> 01:33:22,000
Speaker 1: Uh huh. We got a few questions about the ethics

1498
01:33:22,160 --> 01:33:27,200
Speaker 1: of leaving the United States as things get worse. Okay,

1499
01:33:27,520 --> 01:33:31,960
Speaker 1: that's yeah. And this is something that I know we've

1500
01:33:31,960 --> 01:33:35,320
Speaker 1: talked about. You've got that get out of America and

1501
01:33:35,520 --> 01:33:39,040
Speaker 1: I see. That's the thing is that, like I already

1502
01:33:39,080 --> 01:33:41,720
Speaker 1: have my Canadian passport, so that is something that I

1503
01:33:41,760 --> 01:33:44,720
Speaker 1: can do at any time. And that's something that I

1504
01:33:44,720 --> 01:33:47,479
Speaker 1: probably will do at some point, because one I can

1505
01:33:47,520 --> 01:33:50,639
Speaker 1: see myself in my theorties and forties, living in Canada

1506
01:33:50,640 --> 01:33:53,320
Speaker 1: will be a lot easier in a lot of ways

1507
01:33:53,560 --> 01:33:56,679
Speaker 1: in terms of like how much money it will cost

1508
01:33:56,720 --> 01:33:59,360
Speaker 1: for me to live and pay certain things, like living

1509
01:33:59,439 --> 01:34:01,200
Speaker 1: in Canada a certain point will just make a lot

1510
01:34:01,200 --> 01:34:04,880
Speaker 1: more sense for me. So yeah, I probably will move up. Um.

1511
01:34:04,920 --> 01:34:07,960
Speaker 1: And I also know that getting past Canadian border patrol

1512
01:34:08,080 --> 01:34:10,400
Speaker 1: not that hard in terms of other people wanting to

1513
01:34:10,439 --> 01:34:13,800
Speaker 1: go legally or illegally. That's it is actually pretty easy

1514
01:34:13,840 --> 01:34:16,240
Speaker 1: to get to get up there. Um, if you want

1515
01:34:16,240 --> 01:34:18,080
Speaker 1: to do it legally, that's definitely a lot a lot

1516
01:34:18,080 --> 01:34:22,000
Speaker 1: more work, but also not impossible. Um yeah, I think.

1517
01:34:22,040 --> 01:34:24,439
Speaker 1: I mean, like it's important to know that, like moving

1518
01:34:24,479 --> 01:34:28,400
Speaker 1: to somewhere else is not escaping the effects, because the

1519
01:34:28,400 --> 01:34:31,680
Speaker 1: effects are going to reach everywhere, but it can have

1520
01:34:31,720 --> 01:34:36,759
Speaker 1: a lot of advantages, um, especially kids. Yeah. So I

1521
01:34:36,760 --> 01:34:40,240
Speaker 1: I say moving up is or moving away from the

1522
01:34:40,280 --> 01:34:43,360
Speaker 1: States is a decent thing for a lot of people.

1523
01:34:43,400 --> 01:34:46,960
Speaker 1: I don't feel the need to stay and fight for

1524
01:34:47,120 --> 01:34:49,519
Speaker 1: something that I don't really care about what's in the

1525
01:34:49,520 --> 01:34:54,519
Speaker 1: first place anyway, UM, So sure do what makes you

1526
01:34:54,760 --> 01:34:58,000
Speaker 1: happy in the time that you have alive. I feel

1527
01:34:58,040 --> 01:35:00,920
Speaker 1: like that's a that says as ethical as you need

1528
01:35:01,000 --> 01:35:04,760
Speaker 1: to get Yeah, I don't think anyone has a responsibility

1529
01:35:04,880 --> 01:35:09,880
Speaker 1: to like stay in uh fight to the death uh

1530
01:35:10,160 --> 01:35:14,960
Speaker 1: in in a collapsing country. Um As as a general rule,

1531
01:35:15,000 --> 01:35:18,960
Speaker 1: I'm very sympathetic towards refugees. And that's kind of what

1532
01:35:19,000 --> 01:35:21,759
Speaker 1: you would be if you're talking about fleeing the United States,

1533
01:35:21,800 --> 01:35:24,559
Speaker 1: because you're it's in the process of falling apart and

1534
01:35:24,640 --> 01:35:27,280
Speaker 1: things are you suspect a lot about to get a

1535
01:35:27,320 --> 01:35:29,280
Speaker 1: lot more violent, especially if you have again, like a

1536
01:35:29,360 --> 01:35:34,559
Speaker 1: family kids. Um I I had options to do that

1537
01:35:34,560 --> 01:35:38,240
Speaker 1: that I've I've chosen at this point not to UM,

1538
01:35:38,280 --> 01:35:43,400
Speaker 1: not to pursue UM, but UH, I get white people

1539
01:35:43,439 --> 01:35:46,320
Speaker 1: would and as a general rule, like I spent I

1540
01:35:46,400 --> 01:35:49,840
Speaker 1: spent once when I was UM in UH in Bosnia

1541
01:35:49,920 --> 01:35:53,400
Speaker 1: and Serbia talking to survivors of the genocide there in

1542
01:35:53,439 --> 01:35:57,719
Speaker 1: the nineties. UM. I took a train ride UM from

1543
01:35:58,240 --> 01:36:02,960
Speaker 1: Sarajevo to like a little town own near Strubernitza and Uh.

1544
01:36:03,040 --> 01:36:05,040
Speaker 1: During the train ride, I wound up like hanging out

1545
01:36:05,080 --> 01:36:07,600
Speaker 1: with this dude who had been born and raised in

1546
01:36:07,680 --> 01:36:11,760
Speaker 1: Yugoslavia and had been living in Canada since the Civil War,

1547
01:36:11,920 --> 01:36:16,639
Speaker 1: and he, like very through in his kind of broken English,

1548
01:36:16,680 --> 01:36:18,960
Speaker 1: explained like, yeah, when the war broke out, all of

1549
01:36:19,000 --> 01:36:20,840
Speaker 1: my friends, all of these other young guys I knew,

1550
01:36:20,880 --> 01:36:22,800
Speaker 1: were like, well, you know, we're gonna fight, We're gonna fight.

1551
01:36:22,840 --> 01:36:24,840
Speaker 1: And I said, no, no, no, no no, went to

1552
01:36:24,880 --> 01:36:26,800
Speaker 1: Canada and this is the first time I've been back,

1553
01:36:26,840 --> 01:36:29,920
Speaker 1: and that was the smart thing to do. UM. So

1554
01:36:29,960 --> 01:36:32,080
Speaker 1: I'm not I mean, if you can get the if

1555
01:36:32,120 --> 01:36:34,240
Speaker 1: you can get out and find a place that's safer,

1556
01:36:34,280 --> 01:36:37,280
Speaker 1: as Garrison said, like there's there's nothing I think that

1557
01:36:37,320 --> 01:36:42,559
Speaker 1: inherently behooves you to spend your uh limited time on

1558
01:36:42,600 --> 01:36:45,880
Speaker 1: this planet struggling, And especially if you've got a family,

1559
01:36:45,920 --> 01:36:47,680
Speaker 1: like doing what you can to put them in a

1560
01:36:47,680 --> 01:36:51,519
Speaker 1: safer position is great. That said, none of it's a

1561
01:36:51,560 --> 01:36:54,040
Speaker 1: permanent or even necessarily a long term solution. Like the

1562
01:36:54,040 --> 01:36:56,040
Speaker 1: idea of moving to Canada has a lot of appeal,

1563
01:36:56,080 --> 01:36:58,640
Speaker 1: but like if you think that Canada is going to

1564
01:36:58,760 --> 01:37:01,720
Speaker 1: keep being what a lot of Americans see it as

1565
01:37:01,760 --> 01:37:05,360
Speaker 1: as the United States collapses into like fascism, I don't

1566
01:37:05,400 --> 01:37:08,880
Speaker 1: know how realistic a proposition that really is. And it's

1567
01:37:08,880 --> 01:37:10,600
Speaker 1: the same for a lot of places, Like all of

1568
01:37:10,600 --> 01:37:14,840
Speaker 1: these problems are global problems, and moving geographically unless you're

1569
01:37:14,840 --> 01:37:18,559
Speaker 1: wealthy enough to move to like some fortified compound protected

1570
01:37:18,560 --> 01:37:22,320
Speaker 1: by contractors in a place that is actually insulated from

1571
01:37:22,320 --> 01:37:26,120
Speaker 1: climate change to a significant extent, um is not the

1572
01:37:26,800 --> 01:37:29,719
Speaker 1: does not bring the degree of security you might expect. Um.

1573
01:37:29,800 --> 01:37:32,000
Speaker 1: I do think there is. I do think it is

1574
01:37:32,400 --> 01:37:37,080
Speaker 1: generally speaking a noble and positive thing, uh to to

1575
01:37:37,080 --> 01:37:40,040
Speaker 1: to stay and try to make things better where you are.

1576
01:37:40,320 --> 01:37:43,320
Speaker 1: But um, you know, I think everybody I think everyone.

1577
01:37:43,479 --> 01:37:46,400
Speaker 1: I think every single person, whether they admit it or not,

1578
01:37:46,960 --> 01:37:49,920
Speaker 1: would leave at a certain point if they possibly could. Um,

1579
01:37:49,960 --> 01:37:53,120
Speaker 1: And I don't think anyone is. I don't think anyone

1580
01:37:53,160 --> 01:37:58,040
Speaker 1: owes it to the world to like, uh die in

1581
01:37:58,080 --> 01:38:02,840
Speaker 1: a place that uh they hate just because um that's

1582
01:38:02,880 --> 01:38:07,400
Speaker 1: where they were born. And we're back. Okay, Oh, this

1583
01:38:07,439 --> 01:38:11,200
Speaker 1: is a good one. What tool besides bolt cutters should

1584
01:38:11,200 --> 01:38:14,680
Speaker 1: we all own in a collapse situation? First of all,

1585
01:38:14,680 --> 01:38:17,439
Speaker 1: bolt cutters That should not be your first picture to

1586
01:38:17,560 --> 01:38:20,719
Speaker 1: for a tool. No, No, it should be an angle

1587
01:38:20,840 --> 01:38:25,200
Speaker 1: grinder with a diamond blade. No. Even like water filters

1588
01:38:25,280 --> 01:38:28,879
Speaker 1: gotten me out of a number of types water filtration systems,

1589
01:38:29,120 --> 01:38:31,560
Speaker 1: there's more starters, Like, there's a lot of there's a

1590
01:38:31,520 --> 01:38:34,439
Speaker 1: lot of stuff, if not even not water filtration, you

1591
01:38:34,439 --> 01:38:36,720
Speaker 1: can get tablets or honestly, like you can have a

1592
01:38:36,720 --> 01:38:40,400
Speaker 1: little hand pump filter and water purification tablets along with

1593
01:38:40,400 --> 01:38:43,240
Speaker 1: a little you know, there's a number of things that

1594
01:38:43,280 --> 01:38:45,040
Speaker 1: are that should be in a go bag. A way

1595
01:38:45,080 --> 01:38:48,559
Speaker 1: to get some amount of of already clean water, in

1596
01:38:48,600 --> 01:38:51,600
Speaker 1: a way to get more clean water, enough food to

1597
01:38:51,720 --> 01:38:56,719
Speaker 1: at least deal with three to five days. Um, some rope, um,

1598
01:38:56,760 --> 01:39:00,280
Speaker 1: a good knife, multi tool is even better in most

1599
01:39:00,320 --> 01:39:03,200
Speaker 1: situations if you have if you don't mind the weight,

1600
01:39:03,360 --> 01:39:05,960
Speaker 1: a belt knife and a multi tool would be great,

1601
01:39:06,040 --> 01:39:08,200
Speaker 1: or a multi tool in a little hand ax, which

1602
01:39:08,479 --> 01:39:10,519
Speaker 1: depending on where you live, might be more useful in

1603
01:39:10,920 --> 01:39:15,559
Speaker 1: splitting wood, a good fire starter, UM, some amount of

1604
01:39:15,640 --> 01:39:18,640
Speaker 1: rubbing alcohol, which is always a handy thing to have

1605
01:39:18,880 --> 01:39:23,400
Speaker 1: on hand. UM. Either maps or you know, batteries for

1606
01:39:23,439 --> 01:39:25,960
Speaker 1: an electronic device that might be able to act as

1607
01:39:25,960 --> 01:39:32,240
Speaker 1: a map. Um. Yeah, that that's all useful stuff. UM.

1608
01:39:32,439 --> 01:39:34,519
Speaker 1: I do I I do keep in the boot of

1609
01:39:34,560 --> 01:39:37,920
Speaker 1: my car generally an angle grinder. UM. I have come into,

1610
01:39:38,040 --> 01:39:39,920
Speaker 1: especially living out in the middle of nowhere, a couple

1611
01:39:39,960 --> 01:39:43,160
Speaker 1: of situations like sometimes somebody has a health emergency and

1612
01:39:43,160 --> 01:39:46,280
Speaker 1: there is a fence in the way. Um, and it's

1613
01:39:46,040 --> 01:39:48,479
Speaker 1: it has been something that is and is I think

1614
01:39:48,600 --> 01:39:51,439
Speaker 1: going to be easier for boat cutters are good at

1615
01:39:51,479 --> 01:39:53,759
Speaker 1: what they do. They also require a lot of forearm

1616
01:39:53,800 --> 01:39:55,840
Speaker 1: and upper body strength that is not going to be

1617
01:39:55,880 --> 01:39:58,200
Speaker 1: as much of an option for people. So angle grinder

1618
01:39:58,720 --> 01:40:01,040
Speaker 1: not a bad thing to have in any sort of like.

1619
01:40:01,479 --> 01:40:03,400
Speaker 1: It's especially if you like if you're if you're planning

1620
01:40:03,400 --> 01:40:04,680
Speaker 1: a kid, like I want to keep ship in my

1621
01:40:04,680 --> 01:40:07,639
Speaker 1: car because the wildfires are coming right. Um, well, you're

1622
01:40:07,760 --> 01:40:10,960
Speaker 1: probably don't want a battery powered saw. Um because depending

1623
01:40:10,960 --> 01:40:12,879
Speaker 1: on the capable even if you have a very capable

1624
01:40:12,920 --> 01:40:15,639
Speaker 1: off roading vehicle, everyone I know who does serious overlanding,

1625
01:40:15,680 --> 01:40:18,360
Speaker 1: it's like, well you keep a fucking chainsaw in there

1626
01:40:18,360 --> 01:40:20,519
Speaker 1: because sometimes you need to cut wood out of the

1627
01:40:20,560 --> 01:40:22,080
Speaker 1: way and you're just not going to get your car

1628
01:40:22,200 --> 01:40:25,320
Speaker 1: over it. Um. So it really depends on what you're doing,

1629
01:40:25,400 --> 01:40:29,920
Speaker 1: and like what the what the the kind of potential

1630
01:40:30,200 --> 01:40:34,320
Speaker 1: threats you're worried about are um, But yeah, I think

1631
01:40:34,400 --> 01:40:38,160
Speaker 1: the basics are way to get water, some amount of food,

1632
01:40:38,760 --> 01:40:42,439
Speaker 1: ability to start a fire. Something like a space blanket

1633
01:40:42,560 --> 01:40:44,160
Speaker 1: is useful. If you live in a place where it

1634
01:40:44,200 --> 01:40:47,040
Speaker 1: actually gets cold, you should have a space blanket and

1635
01:40:47,120 --> 01:40:51,880
Speaker 1: a wool blanket or a couple of wool blankets because

1636
01:40:51,920 --> 01:40:54,559
Speaker 1: those will retain heat much better. Wool keeps like eight

1637
01:40:54,720 --> 01:40:57,240
Speaker 1: percent of its insulating capacity even when wet, and like

1638
01:40:57,479 --> 01:41:01,680
Speaker 1: layering wool and u uh, survival blankets um can be

1639
01:41:01,720 --> 01:41:04,400
Speaker 1: a really effective way to keep yourself from dying in

1640
01:41:04,400 --> 01:41:10,040
Speaker 1: in in bad weather situations. UM. That said, depending on

1641
01:41:10,080 --> 01:41:12,439
Speaker 1: where you are, there may be no realistic way to

1642
01:41:12,520 --> 01:41:14,960
Speaker 1: protect yourself in the like if you are in certain

1643
01:41:15,000 --> 01:41:17,080
Speaker 1: parts of the Midwest at certain parts of the winter,

1644
01:41:17,520 --> 01:41:19,920
Speaker 1: it may not matter so much, like what blankets you

1645
01:41:19,960 --> 01:41:23,920
Speaker 1: have access to frustrating in the wilders and there's no

1646
01:41:24,040 --> 01:41:28,760
Speaker 1: like structures around you, then yeah it's negative. There's only

1647
01:41:28,800 --> 01:41:33,519
Speaker 1: so much. Yeah, I do love collecting a lock bypass tools.

1648
01:41:33,720 --> 01:41:35,800
Speaker 1: It's one of my favorite things is just to have

1649
01:41:35,920 --> 01:41:40,639
Speaker 1: these practice using them. Um. Something I got for when

1650
01:41:40,640 --> 01:41:43,760
Speaker 1: I went to the Earth First Gathering that worked out

1651
01:41:43,840 --> 01:41:48,280
Speaker 1: pretty well was a foldable solar panel that connects to USB.

1652
01:41:48,439 --> 01:41:51,920
Speaker 1: That's enough to keep my phone alive always. So in

1653
01:41:52,000 --> 01:41:55,200
Speaker 1: terms of always wanting a map, this little foldable thing

1654
01:41:55,400 --> 01:41:57,360
Speaker 1: is enough to keep my phone able to have a

1655
01:41:57,400 --> 01:42:00,799
Speaker 1: map assuming I have cell service. So I was skeptical

1656
01:42:00,880 --> 01:42:04,040
Speaker 1: of how much this thing could work. Um, and it

1657
01:42:03,560 --> 01:42:06,600
Speaker 1: it did a decent enough job. It even kept it

1658
01:42:06,600 --> 01:42:10,320
Speaker 1: even kept like my iPad pro um uh powered as well,

1659
01:42:10,439 --> 01:42:14,120
Speaker 1: so it had had a decent amount of square footage

1660
01:42:14,120 --> 01:42:18,519
Speaker 1: once you unroll it. So that was very useful. But yeah,

1661
01:42:18,600 --> 01:42:22,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I I really like luck bypass stuff. Um,

1662
01:42:22,120 --> 01:42:24,040
Speaker 1: it's one of one of one of my other hobbies.

1663
01:42:24,680 --> 01:42:27,000
Speaker 1: So this is you know a variety of tools in

1664
01:42:27,040 --> 01:42:29,200
Speaker 1: that type that it's nice to get, like a decent

1665
01:42:29,200 --> 01:42:33,960
Speaker 1: collection of also, like especially now, but probably in general,

1666
01:42:34,080 --> 01:42:37,360
Speaker 1: like have masks, like just I mean just in general,

1667
01:42:37,520 --> 01:42:41,040
Speaker 1: like have have masks, have lots of them, make sure

1668
01:42:41,080 --> 01:42:45,240
Speaker 1: you can change them. Yeah, I have a gas mask

1669
01:42:45,320 --> 01:42:49,040
Speaker 1: if that's at all physically like respond like fiscally possible

1670
01:42:49,120 --> 01:42:51,400
Speaker 1: for you. Mira is the one I think Garrison and

1671
01:42:51,439 --> 01:42:55,240
Speaker 1: I would both recommend to the want like a very

1672
01:42:55,360 --> 01:43:00,640
Speaker 1: good gas mask, really good gas It's wonderful. Again all

1673
01:43:00,680 --> 01:43:02,519
Speaker 1: of these kids, there's the kid are like, Okay, what

1674
01:43:02,680 --> 01:43:05,040
Speaker 1: is the what is what's necessary? And then there's like,

1675
01:43:05,080 --> 01:43:06,840
Speaker 1: all right, if you have money or if you have

1676
01:43:06,880 --> 01:43:08,800
Speaker 1: time that you want to learn extra skills, what are

1677
01:43:08,800 --> 01:43:11,080
Speaker 1: other things like lock picks? If you're just a random

1678
01:43:11,160 --> 01:43:12,960
Speaker 1: Joe and you've never like, don't throw lock picks in

1679
01:43:12,960 --> 01:43:14,599
Speaker 1: your kid, if you've never done any lock picks ship,

1680
01:43:14,680 --> 01:43:18,240
Speaker 1: they're not going to help you. Um. But if that

1681
01:43:18,240 --> 01:43:20,519
Speaker 1: that is a skill that is worth picking up and

1682
01:43:20,640 --> 01:43:25,920
Speaker 1: that will make you like more resilient. Um yeah um

1683
01:43:25,920 --> 01:43:29,519
Speaker 1: Oh and a fourteen point nine millimeter anti material rifle. Um,

1684
01:43:29,600 --> 01:43:31,839
Speaker 1: you're always gonna need one of those. They're at they

1685
01:43:31,920 --> 01:43:34,960
Speaker 1: stay supersonic it up to three and a half miles UM,

1686
01:43:35,000 --> 01:43:38,679
Speaker 1: which is really useful. So definitely, definitely, And they're only

1687
01:43:39,400 --> 01:43:42,160
Speaker 1: you probably aren't going to spend more than dollars getting

1688
01:43:42,160 --> 01:43:44,479
Speaker 1: one set up, So it's it's really for the price

1689
01:43:44,680 --> 01:43:48,160
Speaker 1: of a of a fairly new Toyota Prius, you could

1690
01:43:48,200 --> 01:43:51,960
Speaker 1: have UM an anti material rifle that can pierce armored

1691
01:43:52,040 --> 01:43:54,840
Speaker 1: vehicles at at several miles distance. And really what is

1692
01:43:54,880 --> 01:44:00,400
Speaker 1: more pragmatic a survival tool than that, And for it

1693
01:44:01,720 --> 01:44:07,760
Speaker 1: it's only like around that's just a moderately expensive meal

1694
01:44:07,920 --> 01:44:15,360
Speaker 1: per bullet. Christopher, Uh, do you think that corporations like

1695
01:44:15,479 --> 01:44:23,160
Speaker 1: Walmart or Amazon could become more militaristic? Yeah, I mean yeah,

1696
01:44:23,200 --> 01:44:25,880
Speaker 1: I think I think absolutely. The trend that worries me

1697
01:44:25,920 --> 01:44:30,559
Speaker 1: as Amazon's increasing um collaborations with and deeper connections with

1698
01:44:30,640 --> 01:44:34,160
Speaker 1: like the FBI and other kind of law enforcement agencies. Um.

1699
01:44:34,160 --> 01:44:36,600
Speaker 1: The degree to which target has also like with the

1700
01:44:36,640 --> 01:44:40,200
Speaker 1: FBI and like with other agencies, because they're they're anti

1701
01:44:40,200 --> 01:44:43,720
Speaker 1: shrink department and whatnot. They're like, they're the surveillance they've

1702
01:44:43,720 --> 01:44:46,880
Speaker 1: built to stop theft is so advanced. They have one

1703
01:44:46,920 --> 01:44:49,679
Speaker 1: of the best crime labs in the whole United States. Yeah,

1704
01:44:50,720 --> 01:44:53,800
Speaker 1: organizations like Tiger Swan, which is a mercenary group that

1705
01:44:53,880 --> 01:44:57,360
Speaker 1: the Dakota Pipeline people, the Dapple folks like hired to

1706
01:44:57,439 --> 01:44:59,720
Speaker 1: crack down on the Standing Rock protests and have have

1707
01:45:00,040 --> 01:45:02,920
Speaker 1: worked in other There's other organizations like that that we're

1708
01:45:03,360 --> 01:45:06,800
Speaker 1: active during the BLM protests and kind of the I

1709
01:45:06,800 --> 01:45:10,559
Speaker 1: I do think we're seeing a para militarization of a

1710
01:45:10,600 --> 01:45:13,960
Speaker 1: lot of these corporation a lot of these corporations in

1711
01:45:14,040 --> 01:45:16,960
Speaker 1: order to protect their but they see their financial interests

1712
01:45:17,720 --> 01:45:21,000
Speaker 1: um and that that is that is proceeding rapidly, And

1713
01:45:21,040 --> 01:45:23,760
Speaker 1: it's not the thing that I'm not most I'm not

1714
01:45:23,840 --> 01:45:27,960
Speaker 1: most worried about them. Like do like having armed forces,

1715
01:45:28,000 --> 01:45:30,439
Speaker 1: although there will be some degree of that. There's already

1716
01:45:30,479 --> 01:45:32,960
Speaker 1: that's already happen, Like in Portland and downtown Portland there

1717
01:45:32,960 --> 01:45:39,120
Speaker 1: are armed effectively like mercenaries guarding certain businesses and certain

1718
01:45:39,160 --> 01:45:42,559
Speaker 1: areas like as a result of like you know, to

1719
01:45:42,920 --> 01:45:45,679
Speaker 1: deal with quote unquote the gun crime or whatever property

1720
01:45:45,720 --> 01:45:47,640
Speaker 1: crime that's raised. But the thing that I think is

1721
01:45:47,640 --> 01:45:51,240
Speaker 1: most concerning is the degree to which they are professionalizing

1722
01:45:51,439 --> 01:45:56,559
Speaker 1: a paramilitary surveillance apparatus UM and Amazon has done it

1723
01:45:56,560 --> 01:45:59,120
Speaker 1: to do stuff like crackdown on union organizing and whatnot like,

1724
01:45:59,640 --> 01:46:02,559
Speaker 1: so yeah, I'm very concerned with that. I'm I I

1725
01:46:02,680 --> 01:46:05,280
Speaker 1: think that the the dimension of it that's most frightening

1726
01:46:05,360 --> 01:46:09,280
Speaker 1: is not necessarily like the shadow run, you know, corporations

1727
01:46:09,360 --> 01:46:13,920
Speaker 1: buying armies, but rather corporations buying like intelligence agencies. UM

1728
01:46:14,080 --> 01:46:15,840
Speaker 1: is kind of the thing that I think will actually

1729
01:46:15,880 --> 01:46:18,479
Speaker 1: be the biggest threat UM because in a lot of cases,

1730
01:46:18,600 --> 01:46:20,760
Speaker 1: generally speaking, if I have to deal with an armed

1731
01:46:20,760 --> 01:46:24,000
Speaker 1: security guard or a cop, that security guard is going

1732
01:46:24,080 --> 01:46:25,400
Speaker 1: to be less of a pain in the ass than

1733
01:46:25,439 --> 01:46:28,639
Speaker 1: the cop. UM. Not always, but as a general rule,

1734
01:46:28,680 --> 01:46:31,559
Speaker 1: I'm less worried about security guards than cops, even armed ones.

1735
01:46:32,479 --> 01:46:35,280
Speaker 1: I think another thing that's important to keep in mind

1736
01:46:35,560 --> 01:46:38,679
Speaker 1: is that yeah, I means like I don't, I don't.

1737
01:46:38,800 --> 01:46:40,840
Speaker 1: I really don't think there's a danger that we're going

1738
01:46:40,920 --> 01:46:44,280
Speaker 1: to go back to like East India company style, like

1739
01:46:45,120 --> 01:46:47,519
Speaker 1: people with mass armies, because it's it's literally too expensive,

1740
01:46:47,600 --> 01:46:50,559
Speaker 1: like you can't, it's it's too expensive, and the armies

1741
01:46:50,560 --> 01:46:53,519
Speaker 1: that exist already do that. Yeah, yeah you don't need them.

1742
01:46:53,560 --> 01:46:54,920
Speaker 1: But but I mean, I think that the thing, the

1743
01:46:54,920 --> 01:46:59,280
Speaker 1: thing that's like scary outside of the intelligence stuff, which

1744
01:46:59,280 --> 01:47:01,640
Speaker 1: is terrifying, but it's the stuff they do down like

1745
01:47:02,240 --> 01:47:04,320
Speaker 1: like you call it down the supply chain, which is

1746
01:47:04,360 --> 01:47:07,800
Speaker 1: like you know, like cocol and murdering union organizers with paramilitaries, right,

1747
01:47:07,800 --> 01:47:11,800
Speaker 1: they tend to work through like like you know, the

1748
01:47:11,800 --> 01:47:15,360
Speaker 1: corporations will back rebel groups, right, corporations will back like

1749
01:47:15,520 --> 01:47:17,160
Speaker 1: you know, in Colombia, you see a lot of this

1750
01:47:17,200 --> 01:47:22,320
Speaker 1: if like you have these sort of like these I

1751
01:47:22,360 --> 01:47:24,360
Speaker 1: mean something about some of the back by just directly

1752
01:47:24,400 --> 01:47:27,040
Speaker 1: by landholding holding corporations. Some of them are backed by

1753
01:47:27,960 --> 01:47:31,559
Speaker 1: just individual large landholders. But you get these, like you know,

1754
01:47:31,600 --> 01:47:34,360
Speaker 1: you get basically these paramilitaries that are sort of the

1755
01:47:34,400 --> 01:47:38,120
Speaker 1: third wave after the army goes in, and that stuff

1756
01:47:38,160 --> 01:47:40,040
Speaker 1: is very scary or probably we're probably gonna see more

1757
01:47:40,080 --> 01:47:44,960
Speaker 1: of that, and yeah, but but but but I think

1758
01:47:44,960 --> 01:47:50,360
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of important that there's there there's an

1759
01:47:50,400 --> 01:47:54,760
Speaker 1: extent to which again you'll see them having their own mercenaries.

1760
01:47:54,800 --> 01:47:58,679
Speaker 1: But a lot of the time it's there's some kind

1761
01:47:58,680 --> 01:48:02,320
Speaker 1: of thing when when companies really need to kill someone,

1762
01:48:03,080 --> 01:48:07,400
Speaker 1: they tend to outsource that to aid like another sort

1763
01:48:07,439 --> 01:48:10,320
Speaker 1: of paramilitary organization that's like not directly in their supply chain.

1764
01:48:10,960 --> 01:48:13,439
Speaker 1: It's like it's not directly under their training command. Mhm.

1765
01:48:14,120 --> 01:48:17,360
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's that's a good and fun time that

1766
01:48:18,040 --> 01:48:23,320
Speaker 1: we'll probably just get worse mhm. Speaking of corporate uh

1767
01:48:23,960 --> 01:48:28,320
Speaker 1: Funkery or whatever. Coca Cola add I hope, I hope

1768
01:48:28,320 --> 01:48:30,559
Speaker 1: we do get a Coca Cola add because nothing soothes

1769
01:48:30,880 --> 01:48:35,360
Speaker 1: my quench like a cherry vanilla Coca Cola. Nothing soothes

1770
01:48:35,400 --> 01:48:39,200
Speaker 1: your quench? Did That's what I said. Those are words

1771
01:48:39,240 --> 01:48:42,360
Speaker 1: that came out of a Now we're back, okay, Robert.

1772
01:48:42,479 --> 01:48:46,320
Speaker 1: Somebody had a question about an article you wrote back

1773
01:48:46,320 --> 01:48:48,400
Speaker 1: when you worked at Crack about a woman who was

1774
01:48:48,479 --> 01:48:52,120
Speaker 1: hiding from their family. The end of article, you mentioned

1775
01:48:52,120 --> 01:48:53,640
Speaker 1: that you haven't heard from her in a couple of

1776
01:48:53,640 --> 01:48:56,920
Speaker 1: weeks leading up to and they want to know if

1777
01:48:56,960 --> 01:48:59,960
Speaker 1: you've ever heard from her again. So yeah, that's a bummer.

1778
01:49:00,080 --> 01:49:02,120
Speaker 1: The pseudonym I'm I'm not going to use her real

1779
01:49:02,200 --> 01:49:03,599
Speaker 1: name in this, but the pseudonym I used for her

1780
01:49:03,600 --> 01:49:05,280
Speaker 1: in the article was as Am. She was a woman

1781
01:49:05,360 --> 01:49:10,599
Speaker 1: who lived in Um, the EU, and uh was under

1782
01:49:10,640 --> 01:49:12,880
Speaker 1: threat of honor killing from her family, who were from

1783
01:49:12,920 --> 01:49:17,800
Speaker 1: Pakistan in origin Um because she was an atheist, was

1784
01:49:17,840 --> 01:49:21,800
Speaker 1: not um religious hardliner UM and didn't want to be.

1785
01:49:21,840 --> 01:49:23,639
Speaker 1: And for years she had kind of hidden that from

1786
01:49:23,680 --> 01:49:25,720
Speaker 1: her family, Like she'd moved out on her own, but

1787
01:49:25,800 --> 01:49:27,799
Speaker 1: she'd hidden the fact that, like she had a boyfriend.

1788
01:49:27,800 --> 01:49:29,880
Speaker 1: She'd hidden the fact that she'd liked played dungeons all

1789
01:49:29,920 --> 01:49:31,559
Speaker 1: of this stuff, Like she played D and D and

1790
01:49:31,640 --> 01:49:33,240
Speaker 1: was like scared that, like that was like her dad

1791
01:49:33,240 --> 01:49:35,000
Speaker 1: would literally fucking kill her. And this is a thing

1792
01:49:35,040 --> 01:49:36,960
Speaker 1: that happens. This is a thing that happens in the

1793
01:49:37,040 --> 01:49:39,439
Speaker 1: United States and the EU. UM it's a problem with

1794
01:49:39,479 --> 01:49:43,200
Speaker 1: like fundamentalist um Islam, and that's not the only religion.

1795
01:49:43,439 --> 01:49:45,640
Speaker 1: There's honor killings as a result on. But that was

1796
01:49:46,400 --> 01:49:48,639
Speaker 1: her specific situation. One of the things she was frightened

1797
01:49:48,640 --> 01:49:51,560
Speaker 1: about is her family would go back to Pakistan regularly,

1798
01:49:51,640 --> 01:49:53,960
Speaker 1: and she was concerned. She wanted to go because it

1799
01:49:53,960 --> 01:49:55,640
Speaker 1: was the only way to see her grandparents, but she

1800
01:49:55,720 --> 01:49:58,519
Speaker 1: was also concerned that if her parents found out when

1801
01:49:58,520 --> 01:50:03,400
Speaker 1: they went back, they would basically imprison her somewhere where

1802
01:50:03,400 --> 01:50:05,160
Speaker 1: she would not be able to get out and get

1803
01:50:05,200 --> 01:50:07,280
Speaker 1: back to her home and she would be forced to

1804
01:50:07,520 --> 01:50:09,920
Speaker 1: be married off or something. So she was working with

1805
01:50:09,960 --> 01:50:13,000
Speaker 1: an organization UM in the country in the EU where

1806
01:50:13,040 --> 01:50:16,160
Speaker 1: she lived that helped people extricate themselves and and the

1807
01:50:16,280 --> 01:50:17,519
Speaker 1: kind of one of the last things she told me

1808
01:50:17,600 --> 01:50:19,240
Speaker 1: is that, like well, the things she was looking at

1809
01:50:19,280 --> 01:50:21,960
Speaker 1: doing because she was so worried about her dad was

1810
01:50:22,120 --> 01:50:25,479
Speaker 1: a total break. Was like one day with the help

1811
01:50:25,520 --> 01:50:27,800
Speaker 1: of this organization, she would just be gone and in

1812
01:50:27,840 --> 01:50:30,200
Speaker 1: another part of the EU and would have a complete

1813
01:50:30,200 --> 01:50:34,120
Speaker 1: break from her life and would completely stop living as

1814
01:50:34,200 --> 01:50:38,439
Speaker 1: the identity UM she had had her entire life. UM.

1815
01:50:38,439 --> 01:50:40,519
Speaker 1: And I never heard from her again after that, after

1816
01:50:40,560 --> 01:50:42,639
Speaker 1: like three or four different interview sessions, and I still

1817
01:50:42,640 --> 01:50:45,720
Speaker 1: have not uh. And my hope is that she did

1818
01:50:45,720 --> 01:50:47,360
Speaker 1: the thing she said she was going to do, and

1819
01:50:47,400 --> 01:50:50,800
Speaker 1: she just completely burned that email and every other way

1820
01:50:50,840 --> 01:50:53,080
Speaker 1: people had of getting in touch with her. UM. And

1821
01:50:53,160 --> 01:50:56,280
Speaker 1: she's doing great now. But I really have no idea. UM,

1822
01:50:56,320 --> 01:51:00,240
Speaker 1: I have absolutely no idea what happened to her. Oh uh,

1823
01:51:01,000 --> 01:51:03,479
Speaker 1: So we would people want an update on the quest

1824
01:51:03,560 --> 01:51:08,280
Speaker 1: for eel horse. Uh. Still no, still no horse. Still

1825
01:51:08,320 --> 01:51:12,720
Speaker 1: have not found an entire horse carcass um. But but

1826
01:51:12,800 --> 01:51:20,320
Speaker 1: one day it'll happen, you know, it'll happen. Okay, it's

1827
01:51:20,320 --> 01:51:24,120
Speaker 1: gonna be good, Garson. That gator that I shoved a

1828
01:51:24,120 --> 01:51:27,920
Speaker 1: turkey or a duck inside and a turkey next too,

1829
01:51:28,000 --> 01:51:30,320
Speaker 1: was pretty good. It was great after I took it

1830
01:51:30,360 --> 01:51:33,519
Speaker 1: out of the pit as you were wrestling people screaming. Well,

1831
01:51:33,520 --> 01:51:35,720
Speaker 1: that's the only way to properly cook it. The right

1832
01:51:35,760 --> 01:51:37,679
Speaker 1: amount of time is to get drunk enough that people

1833
01:51:37,680 --> 01:51:39,439
Speaker 1: have to fight you to remove it from the fire gear.

1834
01:51:41,479 --> 01:51:43,880
Speaker 1: That's how cooking works. I don't know, if you've done

1835
01:51:43,920 --> 01:51:47,639
Speaker 1: much of it in your life, you'll you'll understand one day.

1836
01:51:48,120 --> 01:51:50,479
Speaker 1: This This is a question that I find interesting because

1837
01:51:50,479 --> 01:51:52,960
Speaker 1: I feel like it really must understand not to like

1838
01:51:53,160 --> 01:51:56,080
Speaker 1: insult the person asking it, But I think that that's

1839
01:51:56,080 --> 01:52:00,920
Speaker 1: not That's not what I'm trying to do. The question is, um,

1840
01:52:00,960 --> 01:52:04,960
Speaker 1: what population can the post capitalist world sustain and thrive

1841
01:52:05,040 --> 01:52:07,840
Speaker 1: on with our ideas and concepts? A billion? Like we

1842
01:52:07,880 --> 01:52:10,800
Speaker 1: currently have six billion to a billion less than ability? Like,

1843
01:52:10,920 --> 01:52:13,400
Speaker 1: how how do people are you willing to lose to

1844
01:52:13,520 --> 01:52:17,880
Speaker 1: achieve sustainability? Because I forget that about the community and

1845
01:52:18,000 --> 01:52:20,960
Speaker 1: are optimistic with proper technology and ecosustainability techniques, we can

1846
01:52:21,000 --> 01:52:23,960
Speaker 1: maintain a population close to what we have now. And yeah,

1847
01:52:24,000 --> 01:52:26,519
Speaker 1: I feel like just the framing of this question kind

1848
01:52:26,520 --> 01:52:31,040
Speaker 1: of approaches our current problems and the solutions we have

1849
01:52:31,160 --> 01:52:34,040
Speaker 1: in a weird way, because I don't think we're not

1850
01:52:34,080 --> 01:52:38,360
Speaker 1: trying to reach a peak population. We're trying to make

1851
01:52:38,400 --> 01:52:40,800
Speaker 1: sure the people that we have have enough stuff to

1852
01:52:40,920 --> 01:52:43,920
Speaker 1: live well. And we have that right now. We we

1853
01:52:43,920 --> 01:52:47,639
Speaker 1: we overproduce everything. We make about one and a half

1854
01:52:47,680 --> 01:52:49,919
Speaker 1: times as much food as we need to to feed everybody.

1855
01:52:50,160 --> 01:52:53,639
Speaker 1: Yet there are billions and millions of people who go hungry.

1856
01:52:53,760 --> 01:52:59,120
Speaker 1: So it's not a so like it's approaching this question. Yeah,

1857
01:52:59,240 --> 01:53:01,560
Speaker 1: so approaching this in terms of, like how could the

1858
01:53:01,560 --> 01:53:04,720
Speaker 1: post capitalist world thrive on our ideas and like I

1859
01:53:05,280 --> 01:53:09,920
Speaker 1: we're not trying to like reach a certain population number,

1860
01:53:10,360 --> 01:53:13,840
Speaker 1: where I think going it from that way is kind

1861
01:53:13,880 --> 01:53:15,760
Speaker 1: of a little silly because I feel like it should

1862
01:53:15,760 --> 01:53:18,720
Speaker 1: be the opposite is. But yeah, I don't know why

1863
01:53:18,760 --> 01:53:20,280
Speaker 1: we don't think we need to start the population and

1864
01:53:20,439 --> 01:53:23,640
Speaker 1: then go down. The point is is, look what we have,

1865
01:53:23,760 --> 01:53:26,679
Speaker 1: here's the people. Let's distribute this like a network instead

1866
01:53:26,720 --> 01:53:30,599
Speaker 1: of a top down kind of system. Yeah. I think

1867
01:53:30,640 --> 01:53:32,519
Speaker 1: that one of the things you have to if you're taught,

1868
01:53:32,560 --> 01:53:35,479
Speaker 1: if you're trying to talk about social ecology. One of

1869
01:53:35,520 --> 01:53:38,759
Speaker 1: the things you have to resist UM is this idea

1870
01:53:38,840 --> 01:53:43,200
Speaker 1: that like they're overpopulation is any part of the problem.

1871
01:53:43,280 --> 01:53:48,200
Speaker 1: It is not. Consumption is a problem, UM, But there's

1872
01:53:48,240 --> 01:53:51,320
Speaker 1: plenty of resources. The problem is again one of allocation.

1873
01:53:51,840 --> 01:53:54,240
Speaker 1: And if you were to actually develop a much more

1874
01:53:54,240 --> 01:53:56,720
Speaker 1: equitable society where people were getting enough, one of the

1875
01:53:56,760 --> 01:53:59,519
Speaker 1: things that we have seen demographically all over the world

1876
01:53:59,600 --> 01:54:04,920
Speaker 1: when um the level of kind of UM, when the

1877
01:54:04,920 --> 01:54:08,919
Speaker 1: the sort of resources available per capita and a population increases,

1878
01:54:09,400 --> 01:54:13,439
Speaker 1: is people have less kids UM. And And like I

1879
01:54:13,760 --> 01:54:15,680
Speaker 1: think that, yeah, it's certainly good to say that, like,

1880
01:54:15,760 --> 01:54:18,760
Speaker 1: in a world that is more equitable, the human population

1881
01:54:18,800 --> 01:54:22,560
Speaker 1: will naturally level off and decrease somewhat. But that the

1882
01:54:23,280 --> 01:54:26,040
Speaker 1: thing that's not the same as saying that, like we

1883
01:54:26,080 --> 01:54:29,599
Speaker 1: need to decrease the population. We need to increase um

1884
01:54:29,640 --> 01:54:33,520
Speaker 1: equity UM and make sure that people have access to

1885
01:54:33,560 --> 01:54:37,200
Speaker 1: the resources that they need UM and also that people

1886
01:54:37,240 --> 01:54:40,560
Speaker 1: who are massively over consuming aren't allowed to do that anymore.

1887
01:54:40,640 --> 01:54:44,040
Speaker 1: You know, that will solve the problems and scale back

1888
01:54:44,160 --> 01:54:47,200
Speaker 1: all of the resources being put towards useless growth and

1889
01:54:47,280 --> 01:54:52,520
Speaker 1: predicting towards better distribution. Thus actually mean, like the questioner

1890
01:54:52,680 --> 01:54:54,920
Speaker 1: used the term like post capitalists. I don't think we're

1891
01:54:54,960 --> 01:54:57,400
Speaker 1: gonna get to a post capitalist world ever, like, at

1892
01:54:57,440 --> 01:54:59,240
Speaker 1: least at least not when I'm allowed. I don't think

1893
01:54:59,600 --> 01:55:02,640
Speaker 1: like a world No. Will there be post capitalist areas, probably,

1894
01:55:02,880 --> 01:55:04,360
Speaker 1: but we're never gonna get there. There's never gonna be

1895
01:55:04,400 --> 01:55:06,800
Speaker 1: a post capitalist world. I don't. I don't. I don't

1896
01:55:06,840 --> 01:55:09,920
Speaker 1: think that. I also think it's entirely possible that we

1897
01:55:09,960 --> 01:55:12,200
Speaker 1: will reach points that people in the time will not

1898
01:55:12,280 --> 01:55:15,400
Speaker 1: necessarily consider post capitalists, because it will be the same

1899
01:55:15,440 --> 01:55:18,360
Speaker 1: states and a lot of the same institutions organizations that

1900
01:55:18,360 --> 01:55:21,520
Speaker 1: were there as a kid. But people who were, you know,

1901
01:55:21,600 --> 01:55:24,400
Speaker 1: looking at it from a perspective today might consider post

1902
01:55:24,400 --> 01:55:27,600
Speaker 1: capitalist because that's generally how change happens. You know, yeah,

1903
01:55:27,920 --> 01:55:31,280
Speaker 1: about like how democracy increased in in the UK, but

1904
01:55:31,320 --> 01:55:33,120
Speaker 1: they still had like a king. It's like when did

1905
01:55:33,160 --> 01:55:35,960
Speaker 1: they They're not they never really reached post monarchy. But

1906
01:55:35,960 --> 01:55:38,080
Speaker 1: it's also not the same system that they were run

1907
01:55:38,080 --> 01:55:40,920
Speaker 1: by in like fourteen hundred. You know, it's wildly different

1908
01:55:40,960 --> 01:55:43,880
Speaker 1: and there's much more representation for more people, but it

1909
01:55:44,040 --> 01:55:47,000
Speaker 1: it's that is not you know that there's also you

1910
01:55:47,040 --> 01:55:49,920
Speaker 1: also have your your Soviet unions and your your killing

1911
01:55:49,920 --> 01:55:54,600
Speaker 1: of czars, and which which is fine, and and and

1912
01:55:54,600 --> 01:55:59,240
Speaker 1: and and I like killing tsars. But change happens in

1913
01:55:59,320 --> 01:56:03,200
Speaker 1: a variety of ways, and change can be revolutionary in

1914
01:56:03,240 --> 01:56:08,480
Speaker 1: its effect without being a clear break. Yeah, I'm trying

1915
01:56:08,520 --> 01:56:11,160
Speaker 1: to think of like how we're talking about like the

1916
01:56:11,280 --> 01:56:14,320
Speaker 1: capitalist world thriving, Like I don't I don't view eight

1917
01:56:14,320 --> 01:56:18,400
Speaker 1: billion people thriving right now even with that like a

1918
01:56:18,400 --> 01:56:20,560
Speaker 1: lot of a lot, Like it's not like it's that's

1919
01:56:20,600 --> 01:56:24,200
Speaker 1: not what's happening right now, And we need to change

1920
01:56:24,240 --> 01:56:31,080
Speaker 1: the way like distribution of resources works drastically, and doing

1921
01:56:31,120 --> 01:56:34,440
Speaker 1: that will make everyone's lives a whole lot better, and

1922
01:56:34,480 --> 01:56:37,080
Speaker 1: it will also maybe limit some of the endless growth.

1923
01:56:37,080 --> 01:56:41,160
Speaker 1: And those things aren't opposites, um, And I just I

1924
01:56:41,280 --> 01:56:44,360
Speaker 1: don't know how like we can say those things, but

1925
01:56:44,520 --> 01:56:49,920
Speaker 1: the path to getting there is certainly a lot more ambiguous. Yeah,

1926
01:56:49,960 --> 01:56:51,880
Speaker 1: And I think that that's I think one of the

1927
01:56:51,880 --> 01:56:55,440
Speaker 1: ways in which the Left goes wrong often is kind

1928
01:56:55,480 --> 01:56:59,040
Speaker 1: of looking at things that have been tried before and

1929
01:56:59,040 --> 01:57:02,440
Speaker 1: and didn't didn't didn't do the trick, and saying like

1930
01:57:02,440 --> 01:57:05,360
Speaker 1: what we need is we need us another Bolshevik Revolution.

1931
01:57:05,440 --> 01:57:08,040
Speaker 1: You know, we need to bring us back that, you know,

1932
01:57:08,160 --> 01:57:10,360
Speaker 1: hammer and sickle, And it's like, well, you know, they

1933
01:57:10,640 --> 01:57:14,520
Speaker 1: gave it the old College try and they did not win. UM.

1934
01:57:14,600 --> 01:57:17,840
Speaker 1: And you can be angry at that or whatever, or

1935
01:57:17,880 --> 01:57:19,680
Speaker 1: you can be like, okay, it's the same and hey,

1936
01:57:19,880 --> 01:57:22,120
Speaker 1: it's it's every tendency. I can look at the fucking

1937
01:57:22,160 --> 01:57:24,280
Speaker 1: Maknos and be like, well, that was based as hell,

1938
01:57:24,320 --> 01:57:26,680
Speaker 1: and you know what, it didn't do the fucking trick. UM.

1939
01:57:26,800 --> 01:57:29,800
Speaker 1: So I think there's a degree of humility that needs

1940
01:57:29,840 --> 01:57:33,680
Speaker 1: to be had in terms of like what actual, what

1941
01:57:33,840 --> 01:57:37,800
Speaker 1: actual change that makes a more livable world will look

1942
01:57:37,840 --> 01:57:39,240
Speaker 1: like in the way in which That's one of the

1943
01:57:39,280 --> 01:57:42,160
Speaker 1: reasons I did enjoy Kim Stanley Robinson's Ministry of the

1944
01:57:42,200 --> 01:57:44,800
Speaker 1: Future is a lot of it is about the end

1945
01:57:44,800 --> 01:57:49,760
Speaker 1: of capitalism in a way that is not UM. It's

1946
01:57:49,920 --> 01:57:52,960
Speaker 1: it's it. It doesn't look like a lot of ends

1947
01:57:52,960 --> 01:57:56,000
Speaker 1: of capitalism have have kind of been posited by UM.

1948
01:57:56,000 --> 01:58:00,680
Speaker 1: There's a lot of uh strong arming bankers into forcing

1949
01:58:00,920 --> 01:58:04,720
Speaker 1: high level economic changes that put into like really extractive

1950
01:58:04,800 --> 01:58:08,320
Speaker 1: systems and whatnot. UM, And it's it's it's interesting. It

1951
01:58:08,360 --> 01:58:11,800
Speaker 1: was kind of an imagining of how the transition could

1952
01:58:11,840 --> 01:58:15,520
Speaker 1: begin UM in a way that that isn't commonly talked

1953
01:58:15,520 --> 01:58:17,800
Speaker 1: about UM, at least on the left. And I thought

1954
01:58:17,800 --> 01:58:20,080
Speaker 1: it was valuable for that, and I think people should

1955
01:58:20,120 --> 01:58:24,280
Speaker 1: be I think there's I think that um UM people

1956
01:58:24,800 --> 01:58:27,640
Speaker 1: can be more creative in how they envisioned the way

1957
01:58:27,680 --> 01:58:30,360
Speaker 1: that might look than they often are. And I feel

1958
01:58:30,360 --> 01:58:32,360
Speaker 1: like this question actually relates to like stuff like dual

1959
01:58:32,360 --> 01:58:36,560
Speaker 1: power really well, because our our goal as individuals is

1960
01:58:36,560 --> 01:58:39,600
Speaker 1: not feeding eight billion people. Our goal is to get

1961
01:58:39,600 --> 01:58:42,040
Speaker 1: a garden enough so that we can feed most of

1962
01:58:42,080 --> 01:58:45,280
Speaker 1: our friends off of stuff that we grew for like

1963
01:58:45,440 --> 01:58:48,520
Speaker 1: the summer, right, Like that's like that's what our goal

1964
01:58:48,640 --> 01:58:52,200
Speaker 1: is to is to build it from that way. Instead

1965
01:58:52,200 --> 01:58:56,120
Speaker 1: of saying, like, how how can we feed New York

1966
01:58:56,160 --> 01:58:59,440
Speaker 1: in a climate sustainable way? That is a very different

1967
01:58:59,520 --> 01:59:02,400
Speaker 1: question them being like if we want to integrate solar

1968
01:59:02,440 --> 01:59:06,000
Speaker 1: punk and like eco sustainability stuff into our lives now,

1969
01:59:06,400 --> 01:59:08,240
Speaker 1: because if we don't do it, no one really else

1970
01:59:08,360 --> 01:59:11,080
Speaker 1: is really going to. Let's start with the people you

1971
01:59:11,120 --> 01:59:13,200
Speaker 1: actually already have connections with, because a lot of it

1972
01:59:13,280 --> 01:59:17,240
Speaker 1: is is about building like horizontal connections as opposed to

1973
01:59:17,400 --> 01:59:20,520
Speaker 1: defaulting to this top down system of who has what,

1974
01:59:20,680 --> 01:59:24,160
Speaker 1: who needs what, and this is when we when we venture,

1975
01:59:24,240 --> 01:59:26,560
Speaker 1: when we dare to venture into the subreddit. One of

1976
01:59:26,560 --> 01:59:29,360
Speaker 1: the things I see people like critiquing a lot is like, well,

1977
01:59:29,400 --> 01:59:32,120
Speaker 1: you're you know, they keep talking about like all of

1978
01:59:32,160 --> 01:59:35,200
Speaker 1: these little like home gardening and like canning and and

1979
01:59:35,200 --> 01:59:37,640
Speaker 1: and kind of these community level solutions, But that's not

1980
01:59:37,640 --> 01:59:40,880
Speaker 1: going to deal with like this massive systemic problem. It's like,

1981
01:59:41,080 --> 01:59:44,520
Speaker 1: it's not all about that. There's there's One of the

1982
01:59:44,640 --> 01:59:47,840
Speaker 1: methods in which you can ensure change is keeping you

1983
01:59:47,960 --> 01:59:51,600
Speaker 1: and yours alive and committed on change. And part of

1984
01:59:51,640 --> 01:59:56,520
Speaker 1: that is ex hyper local solutions UM that also involve

1985
01:59:56,560 --> 01:59:59,360
Speaker 1: increasing your own idea of your autonomy and your own

1986
01:59:59,360 --> 02:00:02,200
Speaker 1: and your own und standing of things like the food cycle,

1987
02:00:02,240 --> 02:00:04,800
Speaker 1: which have an impact on what you like, vote for

1988
02:00:04,920 --> 02:00:08,880
Speaker 1: and what you support pushing for on like a societal level,

1989
02:00:09,120 --> 02:00:11,160
Speaker 1: the things that you come to better understand in your

1990
02:00:11,240 --> 02:00:14,240
Speaker 1: daily life and and so getting involved in all of

1991
02:00:14,280 --> 02:00:17,960
Speaker 1: these things guerilla gardening and whatnot UM has an impact

1992
02:00:17,960 --> 02:00:20,320
Speaker 1: on that. All I do think people underestimate, like the

1993
02:00:20,440 --> 02:00:23,040
Speaker 1: largest crop by acreage in the United States by a

1994
02:00:23,080 --> 02:00:26,200
Speaker 1: long shot, is fucking lawns and replacing lawns with either

1995
02:00:26,280 --> 02:00:30,080
Speaker 1: zero escaping just to increase carbon capture and reduce water usage,

1996
02:00:30,480 --> 02:00:33,280
Speaker 1: or with some sort of food growth. Doing a mix

1997
02:00:33,280 --> 02:00:35,880
Speaker 1: of that for the vast majority of like lawn area

1998
02:00:35,920 --> 02:00:38,760
Speaker 1: in the United States actually would be a significant thing

1999
02:00:38,800 --> 02:00:42,200
Speaker 1: on a global level. Recommend everyone the Book of Food

2000
02:00:42,280 --> 02:00:46,360
Speaker 1: not lawns. Yeah, there's it's that that would not be

2001
02:00:46,440 --> 02:00:48,960
Speaker 1: a meaningless change, and it is something that people can

2002
02:00:49,000 --> 02:00:51,400
Speaker 1: have an impact on because it is the kind of

2003
02:00:51,440 --> 02:00:54,200
Speaker 1: thing that if we're it were to get popular enough,

2004
02:00:54,240 --> 02:00:56,680
Speaker 1: there's a Pokemon point, you know where it where it

2005
02:00:56,760 --> 02:01:00,080
Speaker 1: becomes a trend um and and like Pokemon, if it

2006
02:01:00,120 --> 02:01:03,480
Speaker 1: gets popular enough, it will never die. That's what we

2007
02:01:03,560 --> 02:01:05,640
Speaker 1: say about all of our stuff on our show. If

2008
02:01:05,640 --> 02:01:09,760
Speaker 1: it if it becomes like Pokemon or or n f

2009
02:01:09,840 --> 02:01:11,840
Speaker 1: T point, if that's but I don't think in FT

2010
02:01:12,960 --> 02:01:15,240
Speaker 1: Pokemon is so much better than any n f T.

2011
02:01:15,520 --> 02:01:18,960
Speaker 1: Although the day that this drops, that will probably announce

2012
02:01:18,960 --> 02:01:20,840
Speaker 1: the Pokemon n f T game, which will be the

2013
02:01:20,880 --> 02:01:25,080
Speaker 1: final coffin in the biosphere. All of all of all

2014
02:01:25,120 --> 02:01:27,880
Speaker 1: of my pokemons are gone. I've been had all my

2015
02:01:28,000 --> 02:01:35,200
Speaker 1: apes gone. That was my favorite post of the holiday season. Oh, Robert,

2016
02:01:35,240 --> 02:01:37,360
Speaker 1: do you want to give an update on After the Revolution?

2017
02:01:37,400 --> 02:01:40,800
Speaker 1: That was asked a couple of times. Yeah. See, I'm

2018
02:01:41,120 --> 02:01:46,400
Speaker 1: three chapters in um so it'll be done, hopefully at

2019
02:01:46,400 --> 02:01:49,400
Speaker 1: some point this year. Garrison. Garrison has a question on that.

2020
02:01:49,440 --> 02:01:53,920
Speaker 1: Are you going to pay someone else to code the book? Uh? No, no, no, no,

2021
02:01:54,160 --> 02:01:58,360
Speaker 1: we pay you, Garrison. I don't want to code this. Yeah,

2022
02:01:58,400 --> 02:02:01,280
Speaker 1: well I have to work on the Daily Show. Now

2023
02:02:01,320 --> 02:02:03,800
Speaker 1: I cannot code this game. We all have things to

2024
02:02:03,800 --> 02:02:09,040
Speaker 1: do we don't want to do. Oh gosh, alright, I'm

2025
02:02:09,120 --> 02:02:13,320
Speaker 1: so sorry, Garrison, so sorry. Well have you code some

2026
02:02:13,360 --> 02:02:19,000
Speaker 1: other people's books just to get stuff? No more coding?

2027
02:02:19,080 --> 02:02:22,240
Speaker 1: I will not allow it. There are there there are

2028
02:02:22,280 --> 02:02:24,160
Speaker 1: experts who can do this a lot prettier than I

2029
02:02:24,200 --> 02:02:26,960
Speaker 1: can with my I think, Garrison, I consider you an

2030
02:02:26,960 --> 02:02:31,720
Speaker 1: expert now, Oh no, in in in E pub coding.

2031
02:02:31,760 --> 02:02:37,080
Speaker 1: I'll put that on my resume. Well, I think that

2032
02:02:37,200 --> 02:02:40,040
Speaker 1: does it for us today, folks. If you want to

2033
02:02:40,080 --> 02:02:42,120
Speaker 1: follow us on social media so you can watch us

2034
02:02:42,160 --> 02:02:45,720
Speaker 1: promote our own shows again, you can go to Cool's

2035
02:02:45,720 --> 02:02:48,960
Speaker 1: own media on Twitter, Instagram and happen here pod And

2036
02:02:49,040 --> 02:02:51,760
Speaker 1: wouldn't that be lovely? We get so much more connections

2037
02:02:51,760 --> 02:02:55,760
Speaker 1: through online. That's wow, that really do I love online? Yeah,

2038
02:02:55,880 --> 02:02:59,520
Speaker 1: and uh we're doing it behind the Bastards live stream

2039
02:02:59,640 --> 02:03:03,960
Speaker 1: digital show with prop On. That doesn't sound right, doesn't

2040
02:03:04,320 --> 02:03:07,520
Speaker 1: This bit is so not funny everything time. It's not

2041
02:03:07,560 --> 02:03:09,800
Speaker 1: a bit. I'm just dreading it. I'm dreading it to

2042
02:03:10,000 --> 02:03:17,640
Speaker 1: but we're doing it. February moment House dot com tickets

2043
02:03:17,640 --> 02:03:21,440
Speaker 1: still available. They are a moment House. Come slash behind them,

2044
02:03:21,720 --> 02:03:28,040
Speaker 1: scalpel them to the fans. I get in there. Scarcity

2045
02:03:28,120 --> 02:03:33,360
Speaker 1: is the key. Well do that if you have disposable

2046
02:03:33,360 --> 02:03:37,600
Speaker 1: income and want to watch Roberts talk. Yeah, yeah, more

2047
02:03:37,600 --> 02:03:42,320
Speaker 1: than we already do. I guarantee you it'll be worth it. Well,

2048
02:03:42,360 --> 02:03:44,520
Speaker 1: that's the episode. Thank you for listening. I hope everyone

2049
02:03:44,600 --> 02:03:50,800
Speaker 1: has uh better that would be nice. And I hope

2050
02:03:50,840 --> 02:03:54,440
Speaker 1: everyone has an identical two down to the day and

2051
02:03:54,560 --> 02:03:57,160
Speaker 1: until in May you realize that you're actually in like

2052
02:03:57,200 --> 02:04:00,880
Speaker 1: a groundhog Day style loop. Um, and then you would

2053
02:04:00,920 --> 02:04:04,360
Speaker 1: achieve nirvana if I'm remembering how the movie Groundhog Day

2054
02:04:04,560 --> 02:04:10,120
Speaker 1: went properly. Sure, Uh yeah, that sounds that sounds great.

2055
02:04:10,320 --> 02:04:14,680
Speaker 1: Have a good year, make some changes, make connections with

2056
02:04:14,720 --> 02:04:17,560
Speaker 1: people around you. There there, you just just define them.

2057
02:04:17,680 --> 02:04:20,280
Speaker 1: Talk to people who look like they have cool politics

2058
02:04:20,960 --> 02:04:23,840
Speaker 1: or or start doing cool things. You know, and started

2059
02:04:23,880 --> 02:04:26,240
Speaker 1: started start doing cool things. Yeah, we should address one

2060
02:04:26,320 --> 02:04:28,560
Speaker 1: last thing, which is the question people ask that gets

2061
02:04:28,600 --> 02:04:32,120
Speaker 1: asked a lot, but we probably can't address enough, which

2062
02:04:32,160 --> 02:04:34,800
Speaker 1: is like, there's no one around me doing any of

2063
02:04:34,800 --> 02:04:37,440
Speaker 1: this mutual aid stuff. There's nobody around me engaging any

2064
02:04:37,480 --> 02:04:38,560
Speaker 1: of the stuff that I want to get How do

2065
02:04:38,640 --> 02:04:40,960
Speaker 1: how do I get organized and get involved? Number one,

2066
02:04:41,240 --> 02:04:43,120
Speaker 1: there are people around you doing that kind of ship.

2067
02:04:43,160 --> 02:04:45,160
Speaker 1: It may just be hard to find because of where

2068
02:04:45,200 --> 02:04:49,600
Speaker 1: you are. UM. But if you start doing ship, if

2069
02:04:49,640 --> 02:04:52,840
Speaker 1: you like, the simplest thing I can say is try

2070
02:04:52,880 --> 02:04:56,920
Speaker 1: and figure out where there's a need and start filling it. UM.

2071
02:04:56,960 --> 02:05:00,000
Speaker 1: Often you will start meeting other people who are engage

2072
02:05:00,000 --> 02:05:03,240
Speaker 1: aged in adjacent projects or even the same thing. UM.

2073
02:05:03,280 --> 02:05:05,840
Speaker 1: And that's a way to get into it if you

2074
02:05:05,880 --> 02:05:10,840
Speaker 1: are trying to start. If you actually get so far

2075
02:05:10,920 --> 02:05:13,360
Speaker 1: as to start serving a need in your area in

2076
02:05:13,400 --> 02:05:17,080
Speaker 1: a mutual aid capacity UM and trying to start organizing

2077
02:05:17,080 --> 02:05:19,600
Speaker 1: and whatnot, and you're doing shit, feel free to hit

2078
02:05:19,680 --> 02:05:22,520
Speaker 1: us up on email reach out. We are happy to signal,

2079
02:05:22,560 --> 02:05:26,920
Speaker 1: boost and signpost people who are have actually started doing shit. Um.

2080
02:05:26,960 --> 02:05:29,560
Speaker 1: It's one of those things. Please don't come to I

2081
02:05:29,560 --> 02:05:31,840
Speaker 1: think this might be a cool idea, but if you

2082
02:05:31,880 --> 02:05:35,160
Speaker 1: start doing shit, um, and you can provide some evidence

2083
02:05:35,200 --> 02:05:37,920
Speaker 1: that you're you're doing something in your community that's not

2084
02:05:37,960 --> 02:05:40,640
Speaker 1: currently being done that is a mutual aid type thing,

2085
02:05:40,760 --> 02:05:43,280
Speaker 1: or even even a charitable type thing if it's if

2086
02:05:43,320 --> 02:05:46,520
Speaker 1: you're doing it, we will try to help signal boost

2087
02:05:46,600 --> 02:05:50,120
Speaker 1: and and can be very useful in that capacity. So

2088
02:05:50,120 --> 02:05:55,520
Speaker 1: so it's not easy necessarily, especially depending on where you live,

2089
02:05:55,600 --> 02:05:59,560
Speaker 1: but like you do, it's always possible to find a

2090
02:05:59,600 --> 02:06:03,520
Speaker 1: need and fill it, you know. Yeah, I found that

2091
02:06:03,840 --> 02:06:08,120
Speaker 1: uh uh definitely was easier before the pandemic. But a

2092
02:06:08,640 --> 02:06:10,880
Speaker 1: way that I've met people that are a little bit

2093
02:06:10,920 --> 02:06:13,840
Speaker 1: more open minded to the same things that I'm open

2094
02:06:13,880 --> 02:06:17,680
Speaker 1: minded too. Was going to like local comedy shows or

2095
02:06:18,120 --> 02:06:23,240
Speaker 1: things that shows. I'm guessing like farmers markets, farmers you know,

2096
02:06:23,440 --> 02:06:28,560
Speaker 1: wherever kind of weird not not in the normal culture

2097
02:06:28,600 --> 02:06:31,000
Speaker 1: people will go to. You'll probably find someone there with

2098
02:06:31,280 --> 02:06:36,360
Speaker 1: radical politics, and that's problem all those types of like

2099
02:06:36,360 --> 02:06:40,680
Speaker 1: like you know, countercultural, subcultural spaces. You'll probably find someone

2100
02:06:40,720 --> 02:06:43,720
Speaker 1: there who's wearing a back patch that is something like

2101
02:06:43,840 --> 02:06:46,960
Speaker 1: smashed or something. You know, so like just like you,

2102
02:06:46,960 --> 02:06:49,280
Speaker 1: you have to you know you're not going to find

2103
02:06:49,320 --> 02:06:51,600
Speaker 1: them by staying at your in your house and scrolling

2104
02:06:51,600 --> 02:06:53,440
Speaker 1: on Twitter. I mean they probably not. You have to

2105
02:06:53,520 --> 02:06:56,160
Speaker 1: kind of go into the real world, um as scary

2106
02:06:56,200 --> 02:06:59,920
Speaker 1: as the meat space. Maybe yeah. And I would say

2107
02:07:00,320 --> 02:07:02,240
Speaker 1: another thing to keep in mind if you are in

2108
02:07:02,360 --> 02:07:04,960
Speaker 1: kind of a more conservative area, and even if you

2109
02:07:04,960 --> 02:07:08,000
Speaker 1: do identify as an anarchist, you don't have to frame

2110
02:07:08,040 --> 02:07:10,680
Speaker 1: it that way. You can always call yourself a libertarian

2111
02:07:10,760 --> 02:07:13,480
Speaker 1: municipal list and none of the people who might be

2112
02:07:13,560 --> 02:07:17,200
Speaker 1: offended by anarchist will listen past libertarian and they'll decide

2113
02:07:17,240 --> 02:07:21,040
Speaker 1: you're fine. And that's a great way to to start

2114
02:07:21,080 --> 02:07:26,640
Speaker 1: that ironic it means the same thing more or less.

2115
02:07:26,680 --> 02:07:28,720
Speaker 1: I mean, there's other kinds of anarchists who are but

2116
02:07:28,800 --> 02:07:31,840
Speaker 1: like most people who say they're anarchists, if you were

2117
02:07:31,880 --> 02:07:36,280
Speaker 1: to call them libertarian municipalists would be like, all right, whatever, yeah,

2118
02:07:36,360 --> 02:07:39,280
Speaker 1: not me, don't call me that, but call call Chris

2119
02:07:39,320 --> 02:07:44,680
Speaker 1: that constantly. That's that's that's, that's, that's it. We'll be

2120
02:07:44,720 --> 02:07:49,839
Speaker 1: back tomorrow or maybe not, I don't know, probably tomorrow,

2121
02:07:49,880 --> 02:07:53,640
Speaker 1: maybe that's what I'm saying, and it's been said a

2122
02:07:54,160 --> 02:08:04,680
Speaker 1: say so. I called the Union Hall, as its about

2123
02:08:04,720 --> 02:08:07,440
Speaker 1: of life and death. I thank these people of planning

2124
02:08:07,480 --> 02:08:11,920
Speaker 1: to kill Dr King. On April fourth night, doctor Martin

2125
02:08:12,000 --> 02:08:14,600
Speaker 1: Luther King was shot and killed in Memphis. A petty

2126
02:08:14,640 --> 02:08:18,160
Speaker 1: criminal named James Earl Ray was arrested. He pled guilty

2127
02:08:18,200 --> 02:08:20,160
Speaker 1: to the crime and spent the rest of his life

2128
02:08:20,160 --> 02:08:25,880
Speaker 1: in prison. Case closed right, James L. Ray was upon

2129
02:08:26,600 --> 02:08:30,400
Speaker 1: for the official story. The authorities would parade all we

2130
02:08:30,520 --> 02:08:34,040
Speaker 1: found a gun that James L. Ray bought in Birmingham

2131
02:08:34,040 --> 02:08:37,360
Speaker 1: that killed Dr King, Except it wasn't the gun that

2132
02:08:37,440 --> 02:08:40,800
Speaker 1: killed Dr King. One of the problems that came out

2133
02:08:40,880 --> 02:08:44,320
Speaker 1: when I got the Ray case was that some of

2134
02:08:44,360 --> 02:08:47,440
Speaker 1: the evidence, as far as I was concerned, did not

2135
02:08:47,680 --> 02:08:52,000
Speaker 1: match the circumstances. This is the MLK tapes. The first

2136
02:08:52,040 --> 02:08:55,520
Speaker 1: episodes are available now. Listen on the I Heart Radio app,

2137
02:08:55,640 --> 02:09:02,839
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Executive producer

2138
02:09:02,920 --> 02:09:06,920
Speaker 1: Harris Hilton brings back the hit podcast How Men Think,

2139
02:09:07,240 --> 02:09:10,520
Speaker 1: And that's good news for anyone that is confused by men,

2140
02:09:10,920 --> 02:09:14,320
Speaker 1: which is basically everyone. Get an inside look at what

2141
02:09:14,400 --> 02:09:17,400
Speaker 1: goes on in the mind of men from the men themselves.

2142
02:09:17,680 --> 02:09:21,240
Speaker 1: It's real talk, straight from the source. How Men Think

2143
02:09:21,280 --> 02:09:23,920
Speaker 1: podcast is exactly what we need to figure them out.

2144
02:09:24,200 --> 02:09:27,120
Speaker 1: It's going to be fun and formative and probably a

2145
02:09:27,160 --> 02:09:30,520
Speaker 1: bit scary at times because we're literally going inside the

2146
02:09:30,600 --> 02:09:33,240
Speaker 1: minds of men. As much as we like to think

2147
02:09:33,360 --> 02:09:37,600
Speaker 1: all men are the same, they're actually very different. Each week,

2148
02:09:37,680 --> 02:09:41,280
Speaker 1: a celebrity guest host provides honest advice in his area

2149
02:09:41,360 --> 02:09:44,200
Speaker 1: of expertise. When I agreed to do this reboot, I

2150
02:09:44,240 --> 02:09:48,560
Speaker 1: had a few conditions. No sugarcoating, no mind games, and

2151
02:09:48,680 --> 02:09:52,919
Speaker 1: absolutely no man splaining. Men are hard enough to understand

2152
02:09:52,960 --> 02:09:55,960
Speaker 1: without the mind games. Listen to How Men Think on

2153
02:09:56,040 --> 02:09:59,240
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you

2154
02:09:59,280 --> 02:10:03,320
Speaker 1: get your podcast us. I'm Colleen with joined me the

2155
02:10:03,360 --> 02:10:06,120
Speaker 1: host of Eating Wall Broke podcast while I eat a

2156
02:10:06,200 --> 02:10:10,600
Speaker 1: meal created by self made entrepreneurs, influencers, and celebrities over

2157
02:10:10,600 --> 02:10:12,880
Speaker 1: a meal they once ate when they were broke. Today

2158
02:10:12,920 --> 02:10:15,960
Speaker 1: I have the lovely AJ Crimson, the official Princess of

2159
02:10:16,080 --> 02:10:20,400
Speaker 1: comfin Asia, Kidding and Asia. This is the professor. We're

2160
02:10:20,440 --> 02:10:22,880
Speaker 1: here on Eating Wall Broke, and today I'm gonna break

2161
02:10:22,960 --> 02:10:25,600
Speaker 1: down my meal that got me through a time when

2162
02:10:25,600 --> 02:10:28,200
Speaker 1: I was broken. Listen to Eating Wall Broke on the

2163
02:10:28,240 --> 02:10:31,280
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, on Apple podcast or wherever you

2164
02:10:31,320 --> 02:10:40,280
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. This is gonna be ship, This is

2165
02:10:40,280 --> 02:10:42,920
Speaker 1: gonna suck, This is gonna be trash because no one

2166
02:10:42,920 --> 02:10:45,200
Speaker 1: knows what's gonna happen. I have not actually come up

2167
02:10:45,200 --> 02:10:49,880
Speaker 1: with a prediction yet. I don't know this one. Have

2168
02:10:49,960 --> 02:10:53,560
Speaker 1: I hoped one that I came up with before the show?

2169
02:10:53,400 --> 02:10:57,200
Speaker 1: Have we have we opened this? Yeah, we've already started.

2170
02:10:57,920 --> 02:11:00,800
Speaker 1: Um we were supposed to. This is it can happen here?

2171
02:11:00,840 --> 02:11:04,480
Speaker 1: Everybody podcast things falling apart? How to maybe make them

2172
02:11:04,480 --> 02:11:08,280
Speaker 1: fall apart less? Um. Sophie pitched the great idea of

2173
02:11:08,280 --> 02:11:11,680
Speaker 1: why don't we do an episode that is our predictions?

2174
02:11:11,920 --> 02:11:14,920
Speaker 1: It's really not my idea When people ask so this

2175
02:11:16,680 --> 02:11:22,000
Speaker 1: that she's the Sophie's idea alone. It's sprang fully formed

2176
02:11:22,120 --> 02:11:24,879
Speaker 1: from the sight of her head, like Athena from Zeus's

2177
02:11:24,920 --> 02:11:27,520
Speaker 1: skull um. And we all agreed it was a good

2178
02:11:27,520 --> 02:11:30,080
Speaker 1: idea for an episode. And then I did not come

2179
02:11:30,160 --> 02:11:32,480
Speaker 1: up with the prediction. Did you get You know, that's

2180
02:11:32,680 --> 02:11:34,520
Speaker 1: a bit of time thinking about not a second, not

2181
02:11:34,600 --> 02:11:37,520
Speaker 1: even a moment. Absolutely love the Athena Zeus reference. That's

2182
02:11:37,560 --> 02:11:40,400
Speaker 1: how I tell people I got Anderson. Yeah. Well, my

2183
02:11:40,480 --> 02:11:42,440
Speaker 1: prediction for the year is that I'm going to keep

2184
02:11:42,480 --> 02:11:45,280
Speaker 1: making references to Athena whenever I do something that pisses

2185
02:11:45,320 --> 02:11:47,760
Speaker 1: Sophie off so that she's less angry, I will it

2186
02:11:47,800 --> 02:11:56,920
Speaker 1: will absolutely work. Yeah, that's my prediction for uh okay, okay, okay. Wait,

2187
02:11:57,160 --> 02:12:00,560
Speaker 1: before we go into the to the to the big,

2188
02:12:00,600 --> 02:12:05,560
Speaker 1: bigger thing, I want everybody to give one word prediction

2189
02:12:06,200 --> 02:12:10,160
Speaker 1: for how you would describe this coming here. One word

2190
02:12:10,160 --> 02:12:20,920
Speaker 1: prediction boring and f t M. I was just gonna

2191
02:12:20,960 --> 02:12:25,480
Speaker 1: say fucked, But I don't think because it's going to

2192
02:12:25,600 --> 02:12:28,000
Speaker 1: be hot too, I don't think it's going to be

2193
02:12:28,000 --> 02:12:32,720
Speaker 1: that fucked. Actually, I think I was gonna say mediocre. Yeah,

2194
02:12:32,720 --> 02:12:39,680
Speaker 1: I'm I'm foreseeing a lot of blandness, a lot of blandness.

2195
02:12:40,160 --> 02:12:44,000
Speaker 1: My Here, here's a prediction I'll make. I think that

2196
02:12:45,080 --> 02:12:47,040
Speaker 1: one of the things that we were seeing last year,

2197
02:12:47,120 --> 02:12:49,760
Speaker 1: especially in the streets, with like the far right being

2198
02:12:49,840 --> 02:12:54,760
Speaker 1: so much more uh active um than the left in

2199
02:12:54,800 --> 02:12:56,480
Speaker 1: a lot of places and in a lot of ways,

2200
02:12:56,680 --> 02:13:00,960
Speaker 1: is um really tire A lot of people on the

2201
02:13:01,040 --> 02:13:03,080
Speaker 1: left out a lot of organizers, a lot of street

2202
02:13:03,160 --> 02:13:05,960
Speaker 1: level people. Um, not just like oh I'm tired, but

2203
02:13:06,080 --> 02:13:10,000
Speaker 1: like I was injured, Um, I'm fighting charges. Uh. My

2204
02:13:10,600 --> 02:13:13,720
Speaker 1: funds were depleted. I had to I couldn't keep going

2205
02:13:13,720 --> 02:13:15,360
Speaker 1: out because I have a family and I had to

2206
02:13:15,400 --> 02:13:18,480
Speaker 1: deal with that sort of ship. Um And I think

2207
02:13:18,840 --> 02:13:21,320
Speaker 1: I don't think that energy is back yet, but it

2208
02:13:21,360 --> 02:13:24,000
Speaker 1: always ebbs and flows, and it does on both sides

2209
02:13:24,040 --> 02:13:26,080
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, whether you're a

2210
02:13:26,120 --> 02:13:29,800
Speaker 1: fascist or a progressive, people have X amount of energy,

2211
02:13:29,960 --> 02:13:34,200
Speaker 1: you know. Um, and I think we are. I believe

2212
02:13:34,200 --> 02:13:37,120
Speaker 1: we are kind of at the beginning process of folks

2213
02:13:37,120 --> 02:13:39,560
Speaker 1: on the left starting to recover some of that energy.

2214
02:13:40,160 --> 02:13:42,760
Speaker 1: Um And I I think that that is a process

2215
02:13:42,800 --> 02:13:46,600
Speaker 1: we're going to see building throughout the year. Um. I

2216
02:13:46,640 --> 02:13:48,920
Speaker 1: don't think that. Yeah, yeah, and it will be a

2217
02:13:49,000 --> 02:13:52,920
Speaker 1: multi year process. And I'm I'm kind of hoping folks

2218
02:13:52,920 --> 02:13:55,960
Speaker 1: are ready to throw down again. But but we'll see,

2219
02:13:56,000 --> 02:13:59,760
Speaker 1: like where that goes. We might have like a few

2220
02:14:00,200 --> 02:14:03,560
Speaker 1: days of people throwing down in the streets for some reason,

2221
02:14:03,760 --> 02:14:08,360
Speaker 1: like something bad may happen, like like late summer. I

2222
02:14:08,360 --> 02:14:11,000
Speaker 1: I can I can definitely see like a few days

2223
02:14:11,000 --> 02:14:12,920
Speaker 1: in July or au gust where it's like, oh, was

2224
02:14:13,000 --> 02:14:14,760
Speaker 1: the thing starting again? And it goes on for a

2225
02:14:14,760 --> 02:14:16,600
Speaker 1: bit and then it kind of peters out. I kind

2226
02:14:16,600 --> 02:14:20,240
Speaker 1: of I definitely see that being a decent possibility, um,

2227
02:14:20,280 --> 02:14:22,280
Speaker 1: because yeah, I think there will be more energy for

2228
02:14:22,360 --> 02:14:27,560
Speaker 1: that this year and more mental like like like ability

2229
02:14:27,600 --> 02:14:31,560
Speaker 1: to to do to do that this year than yeah.

2230
02:14:31,960 --> 02:14:35,360
Speaker 1: But overall, I don't see anything super eventful, and I

2231
02:14:35,360 --> 02:14:37,880
Speaker 1: hopefully this doesn't like drink anything and then we get no.

2232
02:14:38,000 --> 02:14:42,360
Speaker 1: I mean, my my big event is that. And I

2233
02:14:42,440 --> 02:14:44,560
Speaker 1: will explain what this is based on in a bit.

2234
02:14:45,000 --> 02:14:48,120
Speaker 1: I think we are going to see a significant sized

2235
02:14:48,200 --> 02:14:53,400
Speaker 1: urban metropolitan area be rendered uninhabitable either permanently or for

2236
02:14:53,440 --> 02:14:56,040
Speaker 1: a significant period of time in the United States due

2237
02:14:56,080 --> 02:14:57,880
Speaker 1: to climate change. And part of what this is based

2238
02:14:57,920 --> 02:15:01,280
Speaker 1: on is the December wild fires that just destroyed a

2239
02:15:01,360 --> 02:15:04,680
Speaker 1: significant chunk of Boulder, Colorado. Right, I'm not talking about

2240
02:15:04,720 --> 02:15:06,680
Speaker 1: like New York City gets swallowed by the waves, but

2241
02:15:06,720 --> 02:15:09,600
Speaker 1: like a place where there's a couple hundred thousand people living,

2242
02:15:09,960 --> 02:15:12,800
Speaker 1: they're not able to be for either ever or an

2243
02:15:12,800 --> 02:15:17,680
Speaker 1: extended period of time because a climate based disaster hits. Um,

2244
02:15:17,680 --> 02:15:20,120
Speaker 1: maybe it'll be a heat dome type thing. Maybe it'll

2245
02:15:20,120 --> 02:15:22,760
Speaker 1: be like a wet bulb event. Maybe it'll be um

2246
02:15:23,040 --> 02:15:26,920
Speaker 1: fires obviously always possible, hurricane tornado. You know, we we

2247
02:15:27,000 --> 02:15:28,960
Speaker 1: saw enough just in the last couple of months in

2248
02:15:29,040 --> 02:15:31,160
Speaker 1: terms of those like record hurricanes that killed like a

2249
02:15:31,200 --> 02:15:34,600
Speaker 1: hundred people in um in the South, or the fires

2250
02:15:34,600 --> 02:15:39,360
Speaker 1: sweeping Boulder right now and again fucking December. Um. But

2251
02:15:39,360 --> 02:15:41,280
Speaker 1: but I do think there's a pretty good chance we

2252
02:15:41,320 --> 02:15:46,800
Speaker 1: see something like that this year. I think my big

2253
02:15:46,840 --> 02:15:49,360
Speaker 1: one is that, I mean, okay, so the the the

2254
02:15:49,680 --> 02:15:51,920
Speaker 1: obvious freebe is that we're going to cross a million

2255
02:15:51,920 --> 02:15:54,360
Speaker 1: COVID deaths or like the the the official count. We

2256
02:15:54,520 --> 02:15:58,160
Speaker 1: were like, we we've had ways social count. That's that's

2257
02:15:58,200 --> 02:16:01,560
Speaker 1: the freebe. The not freebee is like it's not even

2258
02:16:01,600 --> 02:16:04,920
Speaker 1: a prediction. If that's that's that's I think it's going

2259
02:16:04,960 --> 02:16:07,960
Speaker 1: to be warm in the summer time, yeah, like you know,

2260
02:16:08,080 --> 02:16:10,720
Speaker 1: and warm in the summertime is probably like a bigger

2261
02:16:10,760 --> 02:16:14,560
Speaker 1: gamble at this point then, yeah, but very very warm.

2262
02:16:14,560 --> 02:16:18,000
Speaker 1: But yeah. But but but I think the real thing

2263
02:16:18,080 --> 02:16:20,120
Speaker 1: is that like there there is never going to be

2264
02:16:20,160 --> 02:16:24,000
Speaker 1: never locked down the U S never like you of

2265
02:16:24,040 --> 02:16:26,600
Speaker 1: the United States could die and there would be no

2266
02:16:26,680 --> 02:16:30,280
Speaker 1: lockdown like and this is you know, and I think

2267
02:16:30,280 --> 02:16:33,520
Speaker 1: this this is the result of I don't know, I

2268
02:16:33,600 --> 02:16:36,119
Speaker 1: wonder what you do do this. My thesis for what

2269
02:16:36,160 --> 02:16:40,120
Speaker 1: was going on was that, like I actually think the

2270
02:16:40,320 --> 02:16:44,560
Speaker 1: like the like liberate Wisconsin stuff, I think that actually worked.

2271
02:16:45,480 --> 02:16:48,880
Speaker 1: Like thosebery were all those giant like like wnt of

2272
02:16:48,920 --> 02:16:51,600
Speaker 1: people shu up with guns to captain Absolutely it worked. Yeah, yeah,

2273
02:16:51,640 --> 02:16:53,640
Speaker 1: it worked. And it was like, but but they did

2274
02:16:53,640 --> 02:16:56,960
Speaker 1: they did usually works. It's a very effective way to

2275
02:16:57,000 --> 02:16:59,680
Speaker 1: get things done well. But I think there's an important

2276
02:16:59,720 --> 02:17:02,920
Speaker 1: lesson though, which is that, like, so the state will

2277
02:17:03,000 --> 02:17:06,000
Speaker 1: never like very very rarely will the state ever like

2278
02:17:07,080 --> 02:17:11,520
Speaker 1: directly like they they won't immediately back down, right. What

2279
02:17:11,560 --> 02:17:14,400
Speaker 1: they'll do is like they'll make an enormous show about

2280
02:17:14,400 --> 02:17:16,000
Speaker 1: how they didn't grant any concessions, and then they will

2281
02:17:16,000 --> 02:17:17,760
Speaker 1: grant concessions. Like you know, this is the thing with

2282
02:17:17,760 --> 02:17:19,440
Speaker 1: the riots rights, Like Okay, people are talking about why

2283
02:17:19,480 --> 02:17:21,160
Speaker 1: do we not there's not gonna any more stimulus checks, right,

2284
02:17:21,160 --> 02:17:22,520
Speaker 1: And the reason there's not gonna be more similar checks

2285
02:17:22,520 --> 02:17:26,440
Speaker 1: because nobody's rioting and you know, like what kind of

2286
02:17:26,440 --> 02:17:30,879
Speaker 1: stimulus checks you get if a couple of targets get redacted. Yeah,

2287
02:17:30,959 --> 02:17:32,520
Speaker 1: like you know, if if, if, if you burn down

2288
02:17:32,560 --> 02:17:35,000
Speaker 1: another police station, we will get more stimulus checks. It's

2289
02:17:35,040 --> 02:17:36,320
Speaker 1: just that you have to you know, there has to

2290
02:17:36,360 --> 02:17:39,080
Speaker 1: be another police station burned down. Right, But like this

2291
02:17:39,120 --> 02:17:40,480
Speaker 1: is and this is the this is the you know,

2292
02:17:40,560 --> 02:17:42,640
Speaker 1: the the right was extremely effective at this right and

2293
02:17:42,680 --> 02:17:45,480
Speaker 1: in a way that people just don't really talk about,

2294
02:17:45,520 --> 02:17:47,760
Speaker 1: which is that it is now politically impossible in the US,

2295
02:17:47,840 --> 02:17:49,600
Speaker 1: Like no, no one, no one will ever do an

2296
02:17:49,600 --> 02:17:52,120
Speaker 1: ever lockdown because people will show up with guns and

2297
02:17:52,120 --> 02:17:53,960
Speaker 1: they don't want to do that, and they've decided that

2298
02:17:54,040 --> 02:17:57,039
Speaker 1: just just just kill just kill a mill, like you know,

2299
02:17:57,080 --> 02:17:59,600
Speaker 1: we we've already killed the entire population of Seattle, like

2300
02:18:00,000 --> 02:18:02,440
Speaker 1: they're dead. Like we'll just keep killing more people, more people,

2301
02:18:02,440 --> 02:18:05,520
Speaker 1: and just never. I think people often are going I

2302
02:18:05,520 --> 02:18:10,039
Speaker 1: think people on the left attack the Biden's COVID response

2303
02:18:10,080 --> 02:18:11,959
Speaker 1: for a lot of the wrong things. Like the thing

2304
02:18:12,000 --> 02:18:14,840
Speaker 1: that I I would go after him for is like, yeah,

2305
02:18:14,840 --> 02:18:17,280
Speaker 1: we didn't he didn't just say here's a bunch of money,

2306
02:18:18,080 --> 02:18:20,119
Speaker 1: don't go to work, We're not going back to school,

2307
02:18:20,320 --> 02:18:22,880
Speaker 1: like stay at home. Here's a pile of cash, which

2308
02:18:22,959 --> 02:18:26,119
Speaker 1: might have worked. It was worth a shot but past that,

2309
02:18:26,840 --> 02:18:29,200
Speaker 1: a lot of this was beyond By the time he

2310
02:18:29,280 --> 02:18:35,199
Speaker 1: came into office, the the armed militant cultural movement against

2311
02:18:35,240 --> 02:18:37,880
Speaker 1: the idea of COVID precautions was so advanced that like

2312
02:18:38,680 --> 02:18:42,000
Speaker 1: what do you what what what more could have been

2313
02:18:42,040 --> 02:18:44,879
Speaker 1: realistically done other than trying to give people enough money

2314
02:18:44,920 --> 02:18:46,800
Speaker 1: again to actually stay home, which again is the thing

2315
02:18:46,840 --> 02:18:48,959
Speaker 1: I think it's most fair to attack him on, Like okay,

2316
02:18:49,000 --> 02:18:52,800
Speaker 1: I mean like ships beyond Biden in a lot, but

2317
02:18:52,879 --> 02:18:55,600
Speaker 1: like like I don't, like, okay, it was like, well,

2318
02:18:55,600 --> 02:18:57,760
Speaker 1: what could have been done? I don't know, like if

2319
02:18:57,800 --> 02:18:59,640
Speaker 1: you're looking from the perspection of the state, they could

2320
02:18:59,640 --> 02:19:02,120
Speaker 1: actually have deployed the intelligence services against them instead of

2321
02:19:02,120 --> 02:19:05,039
Speaker 1: doing like one dumb entrapment plot, right, Like well sure,

2322
02:19:05,080 --> 02:19:08,119
Speaker 1: but that's that's also that starts before Biden and by

2323
02:19:08,160 --> 02:19:10,959
Speaker 1: again by the time, I mean it's like you know,

2324
02:19:11,040 --> 02:19:12,520
Speaker 1: but like like yeah, I call their bluff, right have

2325
02:19:12,560 --> 02:19:14,280
Speaker 1: when people show up to the capital and then it's like, okay,

2326
02:19:14,280 --> 02:19:16,240
Speaker 1: here's the FBI like like that that that's a thing

2327
02:19:16,320 --> 02:19:18,400
Speaker 1: that like if if you're a liberal status, you could

2328
02:19:18,520 --> 02:19:22,320
Speaker 1: do and they just don't want to because like partially

2329
02:19:22,360 --> 02:19:23,920
Speaker 1: I don't want the conflict of partially because it would

2330
02:19:23,959 --> 02:19:25,840
Speaker 1: actually it would look like it would look really bad

2331
02:19:25,879 --> 02:19:27,879
Speaker 1: for them heading into the midterms. It would look so

2332
02:19:27,879 --> 02:19:30,240
Speaker 1: they're bad. And and also I think this is less

2333
02:19:30,240 --> 02:19:33,200
Speaker 1: The FBI is kind of much more centrist in terms

2334
02:19:33,240 --> 02:19:35,760
Speaker 1: of their politics as an agency. But like there were

2335
02:19:35,800 --> 02:19:39,720
Speaker 1: a lot of state Yeah, well, I mean the most

2336
02:19:39,760 --> 02:19:41,480
Speaker 1: federal and state, Like I don't know that they can

2337
02:19:41,480 --> 02:19:45,720
Speaker 1: rely on them, like they even even the FBI, it's like, yeah,

2338
02:19:45,720 --> 02:19:48,720
Speaker 1: they're using the proud ways informants like on against anarchists,

2339
02:19:48,760 --> 02:19:51,440
Speaker 1: Like yeah, so yeah, like they're not they're not. They're

2340
02:19:51,440 --> 02:19:56,959
Speaker 1: not like the I have an appreciation. What I will

2341
02:19:56,959 --> 02:19:58,920
Speaker 1: say is I have an appreciation for the fact that

2342
02:19:59,000 --> 02:20:01,680
Speaker 1: by the time Biden was in office, it may have

2343
02:20:01,800 --> 02:20:04,240
Speaker 1: been an unsolvable problem, which doesn't let him off the

2344
02:20:04,280 --> 02:20:07,200
Speaker 1: hook for things that were objectively bad decisions like not

2345
02:20:07,320 --> 02:20:11,880
Speaker 1: doing ship for stimulus, UM, like pushing to open the schools,

2346
02:20:12,000 --> 02:20:13,959
Speaker 1: like you know, a number of other things that he's done,

2347
02:20:14,000 --> 02:20:16,480
Speaker 1: but also like if he had done all of the

2348
02:20:16,560 --> 02:20:19,039
Speaker 1: right things, we still might be at exactly this death

2349
02:20:19,080 --> 02:20:21,760
Speaker 1: toll because there are cultural issues here that were very

2350
02:20:21,760 --> 02:20:25,640
Speaker 1: advanced by the time he took office. UM. And I

2351
02:20:25,680 --> 02:20:28,199
Speaker 1: do think like it's whatever. I'm not. I'm not saying

2352
02:20:28,200 --> 02:20:29,920
Speaker 1: this to let Biden off the hook or support the

2353
02:20:29,959 --> 02:20:31,840
Speaker 1: Democratic Party. I'm saying this because people need to have

2354
02:20:31,840 --> 02:20:35,080
Speaker 1: an accurate conception of the problem. Um. And the problem

2355
02:20:35,120 --> 02:20:37,360
Speaker 1: is so much deeper than what a technocrat could have

2356
02:20:37,560 --> 02:20:46,880
Speaker 1: handled by making smart policy. At break a break and

2357
02:20:47,080 --> 02:20:52,280
Speaker 1: we're back from out of space. Actual prediction, Republicans will

2358
02:20:52,320 --> 02:20:58,200
Speaker 1: win the Senate, Yeah, which seems pretty like. I think

2359
02:20:58,240 --> 02:21:02,160
Speaker 1: there's a decent chance Democrats can keep House. Um, but

2360
02:21:02,400 --> 02:21:04,200
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure, and it's going to go back to

2361
02:21:04,240 --> 02:21:06,640
Speaker 1: the Republicans. I mean, they are damn near in control

2362
02:21:06,720 --> 02:21:10,119
Speaker 1: of the Senate as it is, but they did Yeah,

2363
02:21:10,360 --> 02:21:14,039
Speaker 1: but I I do believe that's gonna happen. Um. And

2364
02:21:14,160 --> 02:21:16,640
Speaker 1: let's see other which, yeah, it does does not seem

2365
02:21:16,680 --> 02:21:20,120
Speaker 1: that's not that far fetched of a thing. And I

2366
02:21:20,120 --> 02:21:24,279
Speaker 1: don't know, there'll be some other kind of tech factory

2367
02:21:24,879 --> 02:21:30,520
Speaker 1: the space between Elon Musk, Peter Teel Silicon Valley, there's

2368
02:21:30,520 --> 02:21:34,519
Speaker 1: gonna be I think there's gonna be some worsening development

2369
02:21:34,959 --> 02:21:40,080
Speaker 1: of like tech like technocratic stuff, possibly in like possibly

2370
02:21:40,120 --> 02:21:43,320
Speaker 1: with like the mask of trying to like fix climate

2371
02:21:43,400 --> 02:21:45,880
Speaker 1: change or something. But I think they'll be a decent

2372
02:21:46,040 --> 02:21:50,240
Speaker 1: growth of tech power, and possibly they're like um cooperation

2373
02:21:50,600 --> 02:21:53,320
Speaker 1: with the state or the state like fund giving more

2374
02:21:53,760 --> 02:21:56,920
Speaker 1: explicit like funding and permission to tech power to like

2375
02:21:57,080 --> 02:22:00,560
Speaker 1: do terraforming, or like some geongineering. Like there's gonna be

2376
02:22:00,640 --> 02:22:03,520
Speaker 1: something related to that sphere. That is, it's going to

2377
02:22:03,560 --> 02:22:07,320
Speaker 1: get a lot more visible. It is. My big tech

2378
02:22:07,360 --> 02:22:09,720
Speaker 1: prediction is that there is going to be a crime

2379
02:22:09,760 --> 02:22:12,160
Speaker 1: against humanity at some point this year, like on a

2380
02:22:12,160 --> 02:22:14,600
Speaker 1: massive scale, not like just a mass shooting, but like

2381
02:22:14,640 --> 02:22:17,400
Speaker 1: a state level crime against humanity. And we're going to

2382
02:22:17,440 --> 02:22:19,840
Speaker 1: find out that for the last like eight months, Facebook

2383
02:22:19,879 --> 02:22:22,800
Speaker 1: had been paying the perpetrators a significant amount of money

2384
02:22:22,840 --> 02:22:25,280
Speaker 1: as a result of like some ill thought out ad

2385
02:22:25,320 --> 02:22:28,720
Speaker 1: program that they had. Yeah, like we're going to we're

2386
02:22:28,720 --> 02:22:32,000
Speaker 1: going to leave to Facebook actively funding and ethnic cleansing,

2387
02:22:32,680 --> 02:22:37,199
Speaker 1: um because some somebody thought up some sort of affiliate

2388
02:22:37,240 --> 02:22:40,520
Speaker 1: program that was not well conceived. Um. That's my fun

2389
02:22:40,560 --> 02:22:46,199
Speaker 1: tech industry prediction. My fun tech industry prediction is that, uh,

2390
02:22:46,280 --> 02:22:50,000
Speaker 1: Jeff Bezos will increasingly become the most cringe eest man

2391
02:22:50,040 --> 02:22:54,240
Speaker 1: in the world. Yeah, it is very funny that the

2392
02:22:54,240 --> 02:22:57,119
Speaker 1: picture him on New Year's he's just wearing a Dan

2393
02:22:57,200 --> 02:23:01,000
Speaker 1: Flashes shirts. He's absolutely wearing a Dan Flashes shirt and

2394
02:23:01,040 --> 02:23:04,600
Speaker 1: that's incredibly fine. Robert, Robert, that shirt costs him three

2395
02:23:04,680 --> 02:23:08,640
Speaker 1: thousand dollars because the pattern is so called, it's very complicated,

2396
02:23:08,720 --> 02:23:12,840
Speaker 1: how much the lines criss cross. I I just I

2397
02:23:12,879 --> 02:23:15,480
Speaker 1: just don't like you insisting that it's not as much money.

2398
02:23:15,520 --> 02:23:20,080
Speaker 1: But despite its complicatedness, that that photo was my version

2399
02:23:20,080 --> 02:23:28,160
Speaker 1: of holiday Carne said to everyone I know, Um, yeah,

2400
02:23:28,240 --> 02:23:29,760
Speaker 1: I think I think we're going to see a lot

2401
02:23:29,760 --> 02:23:32,560
Speaker 1: more unions this year. Yeah, that does seem to be

2402
02:23:32,760 --> 02:23:34,800
Speaker 1: a positive trend that we're seeing is a lot more

2403
02:23:34,879 --> 02:23:38,480
Speaker 1: unionization and some significant successes for and and a lot

2404
02:23:38,520 --> 02:23:43,680
Speaker 1: more like like general acceptance of the concept of a union.

2405
02:23:44,120 --> 02:23:46,920
Speaker 1: Other prediction related to to tech industry stuff, I think

2406
02:23:47,360 --> 02:23:52,240
Speaker 1: one of the billionaire space ships things is going to

2407
02:23:52,360 --> 02:23:57,880
Speaker 1: have a disastrous launch. Positive prediction of spaceship is gonna

2408
02:23:57,879 --> 02:23:59,520
Speaker 1: blow up with people inside it as it tries to

2409
02:23:59,520 --> 02:24:02,320
Speaker 1: take off. That's that's my positive prediction. That it can

2410
02:24:02,360 --> 02:24:05,320
Speaker 1: take some people with it. Um, sorry to the people,

2411
02:24:05,360 --> 02:24:07,920
Speaker 1: sorry to the workers who are gonna be probably harmed

2412
02:24:07,920 --> 02:24:10,080
Speaker 1: at that, but it can take some people out. So

2413
02:24:10,120 --> 02:24:15,279
Speaker 1: it's gonna be funny. Um that is that's possibility. Also, Uh,

2414
02:24:15,440 --> 02:24:18,520
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a there's gonna be a disastrous effect.

2415
02:24:18,879 --> 02:24:23,400
Speaker 1: Uh around Austin is right, and that's where that's where

2416
02:24:23,400 --> 02:24:24,960
Speaker 1: a lot of the spacehip stuff is getting set up.

2417
02:24:25,080 --> 02:24:27,720
Speaker 1: There's no, no, no, it's that's just where the offices are.

2418
02:24:27,800 --> 02:24:30,600
Speaker 1: It's like Chica, It's like on the coast of text

2419
02:24:33,240 --> 02:24:35,320
Speaker 1: some some piece of a spaceship is gonna fly through

2420
02:24:35,320 --> 02:24:38,720
Speaker 1: someone's house. No one's gonna care about it. Um, there

2421
02:24:38,720 --> 02:24:40,720
Speaker 1: gets brought, gonna kill a family or something. No one's

2422
02:24:40,720 --> 02:24:44,879
Speaker 1: gonna care. Nothing's gonna happen that. Those are my more

2423
02:24:45,040 --> 02:24:50,760
Speaker 1: my tech industry predictions related to spaceship stuff. Yeah, um yeah.

2424
02:24:50,840 --> 02:24:54,240
Speaker 1: I also think on on a more. I don't know

2425
02:24:54,280 --> 02:24:57,879
Speaker 1: how the current civil war in Myanmar is going to

2426
02:24:58,000 --> 02:25:03,320
Speaker 1: shake out, but I think there's a chance that it

2427
02:25:03,400 --> 02:25:08,000
Speaker 1: becomes the first k place where there is a successful

2428
02:25:08,160 --> 02:25:12,200
Speaker 1: or at least partially successful revolutionary movement that is to

2429
02:25:12,320 --> 02:25:17,200
Speaker 1: a significant extent armed via three D printed weaponry. Um,

2430
02:25:17,240 --> 02:25:19,560
Speaker 1: they've all we've already seen a lot of that deployed

2431
02:25:19,680 --> 02:25:25,960
Speaker 1: by the rebels in Myanmar. Um. I'm interested in watching

2432
02:25:26,000 --> 02:25:28,040
Speaker 1: that because it's kind of the first time we've seen

2433
02:25:28,040 --> 02:25:31,800
Speaker 1: that technology used on a meaningful scale by people that

2434
02:25:31,840 --> 02:25:36,080
Speaker 1: aren't like organized crime. Um. And yeah, I think it's

2435
02:25:36,080 --> 02:25:37,680
Speaker 1: still too early to tell, like how much of an

2436
02:25:37,680 --> 02:25:39,560
Speaker 1: actual like whether or not it's just kind of a

2437
02:25:39,600 --> 02:25:43,920
Speaker 1: distraction from the more meaningful aspects of the struggle, or

2438
02:25:44,000 --> 02:25:47,640
Speaker 1: the more meaningful like kind of deployments of of weaponry

2439
02:25:47,640 --> 02:25:49,360
Speaker 1: and other tools in the struggle, or whether or not

2440
02:25:49,360 --> 02:25:52,119
Speaker 1: it will actually play a significant role in the armed struggle.

2441
02:25:52,160 --> 02:25:55,040
Speaker 1: But it's it's very much worth watching if you're somebody

2442
02:25:55,040 --> 02:25:59,760
Speaker 1: who pays attention to insurgent movements and what is increasingly

2443
02:25:59,760 --> 02:26:06,480
Speaker 1: possible as a result of new technology. I have another

2444
02:26:06,560 --> 02:26:10,480
Speaker 1: really bad prediction. J K. Rowling is going to release

2445
02:26:10,480 --> 02:26:17,840
Speaker 1: a book on gender or fundy YouTube channel, yeah something

2446
02:26:18,680 --> 02:26:20,840
Speaker 1: I think. I think there's a decent chance she has

2447
02:26:20,840 --> 02:26:23,120
Speaker 1: been writing a book of that gender and she's going

2448
02:26:23,160 --> 02:26:25,959
Speaker 1: to release in two I think that as an actual,

2449
02:26:26,480 --> 02:26:31,040
Speaker 1: actual series prediction, just go away and a whole bunch

2450
02:26:31,120 --> 02:26:33,520
Speaker 1: of liberal moms are gonna buy it for each other

2451
02:26:33,560 --> 02:26:35,720
Speaker 1: and they're gonna read it and it's gonna be bad.

2452
02:26:36,360 --> 02:26:39,400
Speaker 1: And that is that is my that's my that's my

2453
02:26:39,480 --> 02:26:43,800
Speaker 1: horrible prediction. She could be so beloved if she had

2454
02:26:43,840 --> 02:26:47,320
Speaker 1: limited her comments after publishing Harry Potter, if she repeatedly

2455
02:26:47,400 --> 02:26:50,800
Speaker 1: telling people that are constantly shifting their pants, if she

2456
02:26:50,920 --> 02:26:54,480
Speaker 1: just didn't use Twitter after anything at all, and she

2457
02:26:54,520 --> 02:26:57,039
Speaker 1: could have been a different person. It's it's the Dave

2458
02:26:57,120 --> 02:26:59,440
Speaker 1: Chappelle thing. Just stay off. We all we all would

2459
02:26:59,440 --> 02:27:01,800
Speaker 1: have loved you wherever if you just just gone off

2460
02:27:01,840 --> 02:27:04,320
Speaker 1: and counted your money and left us alone. Yeah, go

2461
02:27:04,440 --> 02:27:08,280
Speaker 1: be rich somewhere. It's fine to be done. It's fine

2462
02:27:08,320 --> 02:27:10,920
Speaker 1: to be done being famous and influential. You you had,

2463
02:27:11,000 --> 02:27:13,200
Speaker 1: you did great, You did great. You never needed to

2464
02:27:13,200 --> 02:27:17,280
Speaker 1: come back. And she, I don't she did. I'm not

2465
02:27:17,280 --> 02:27:20,520
Speaker 1: sure if she did great? She did? She did? She

2466
02:27:20,800 --> 02:27:23,680
Speaker 1: look again, this is all colored. But if she had

2467
02:27:23,720 --> 02:27:26,120
Speaker 1: never come back into the public eye, all it would

2468
02:27:26,120 --> 02:27:27,600
Speaker 1: have been as like you remember that lady who got

2469
02:27:27,600 --> 02:27:30,400
Speaker 1: like twelve year olds to read seven page books that

2470
02:27:30,520 --> 02:27:33,560
Speaker 1: one time, Like people would not be as critical of

2471
02:27:33,600 --> 02:27:36,000
Speaker 1: the actual content of the Harry Potter books if she

2472
02:27:36,120 --> 02:27:42,400
Speaker 1: just hadn't kept coming back and saying ship so that

2473
02:27:42,840 --> 02:27:46,320
Speaker 1: and and and and then like didn't stop and then

2474
02:27:46,400 --> 02:27:50,920
Speaker 1: did not stop and then was told bad really really bad,

2475
02:27:51,120 --> 02:27:53,240
Speaker 1: and then kept doing it and kept doing it, and

2476
02:27:53,320 --> 02:27:57,120
Speaker 1: kept doing it and kept doing it. You know what

2477
02:27:57,240 --> 02:27:59,720
Speaker 1: people should beat. Look, if you're if you're listening to

2478
02:27:59,720 --> 02:28:02,560
Speaker 1: this and you're a millionaire who was like hugely popular

2479
02:28:02,600 --> 02:28:04,840
Speaker 1: for some cultural reason in the late nineties and early

2480
02:28:04,840 --> 02:28:10,840
Speaker 1: two thousand's, think about Bill Waterson. Bill Waterson ends the

2481
02:28:10,879 --> 02:28:14,480
Speaker 1: most popular comic strip in the history of comics and

2482
02:28:14,840 --> 02:28:17,680
Speaker 1: spends the rest of his life and fucking Iowa painting

2483
02:28:17,760 --> 02:28:21,400
Speaker 1: landscapes and never talks to anybody with a platform again,

2484
02:28:21,760 --> 02:28:25,440
Speaker 1: And I everybody loves Bill Waterson. Like not a single

2485
02:28:25,480 --> 02:28:29,000
Speaker 1: person has a criticism of Bill Waterson. Um, just do that,

2486
02:28:29,440 --> 02:28:31,800
Speaker 1: Just do what he did. Just go paint landscapes in

2487
02:28:31,800 --> 02:28:34,360
Speaker 1: Iowa and don't talk to journalists or get on Twitter.

2488
02:28:34,840 --> 02:28:38,440
Speaker 1: It's fine. Does Bill Waterson believe regressive things about gender?

2489
02:28:38,480 --> 02:28:42,080
Speaker 1: Nobody knows because he doesn't say anything. I think another

2490
02:28:42,200 --> 02:28:45,440
Speaker 1: prediction that is actually decently possible. I think we will

2491
02:28:45,840 --> 02:28:51,000
Speaker 1: get more and more cities and or states to decriminalize

2492
02:28:51,080 --> 02:28:56,400
Speaker 1: hard drugs in in certain possession amounts. UM. I think

2493
02:28:56,640 --> 02:29:00,680
Speaker 1: there is a there's a number of bills going around California, UM,

2494
02:29:00,720 --> 02:29:02,920
Speaker 1: and a lot of other states and I believe that

2495
02:29:02,920 --> 02:29:05,640
Speaker 1: will be start to become more and more common, which

2496
02:29:05,680 --> 02:29:08,279
Speaker 1: will be great. It would be nice if they get legalized.

2497
02:29:08,360 --> 02:29:11,320
Speaker 1: But you know, get get get what you can for now.

2498
02:29:11,959 --> 02:29:20,600
Speaker 1: Um yeah, speaking of drugs, here's oil sponsored by heroin,

2499
02:29:21,000 --> 02:29:24,720
Speaker 1: by by big drug. Here we go, have fun, stay safe.

2500
02:29:25,480 --> 02:29:27,600
Speaker 1: We're back. And I just want to let everybody know

2501
02:29:27,879 --> 02:29:32,920
Speaker 1: that if if everything gets legalized, we will be sponsored

2502
02:29:32,920 --> 02:29:35,800
Speaker 1: by meth amphetamine so fucking quickly it will make your

2503
02:29:35,840 --> 02:29:39,040
Speaker 1: head spin. I will never turn down a drug sponsor, um,

2504
02:29:39,080 --> 02:29:41,480
Speaker 1: except for like super foods. We don't do super foods,

2505
02:29:41,600 --> 02:29:44,800
Speaker 1: we don't do brain pills, but heroin. I would advertise

2506
02:29:44,840 --> 02:29:48,160
Speaker 1: the ship out of heroin. I'm already ready to advertise

2507
02:29:48,200 --> 02:29:52,480
Speaker 1: hair the hair loss drugs we don't do, but heroin.

2508
02:29:53,200 --> 02:30:00,480
Speaker 1: H Hey, is life depressing? You know? Heroin? I hated

2509
02:30:00,560 --> 02:30:03,800
Speaker 1: that I helped that bit. Uh, Chris, you were you

2510
02:30:03,840 --> 02:30:07,720
Speaker 1: were saying something before break My My one serious prediction

2511
02:30:07,959 --> 02:30:11,880
Speaker 1: is I don't think we've I think we're we're gonna

2512
02:30:11,879 --> 02:30:14,959
Speaker 1: get one more big like Latin American uprising, and it

2513
02:30:15,000 --> 02:30:17,320
Speaker 1: will not be in Argentina. I have been eating ship

2514
02:30:17,400 --> 02:30:20,320
Speaker 1: for three goddamn years predicting it's gonna be Argentina. It's like, oh,

2515
02:30:20,360 --> 02:30:22,680
Speaker 1: they're getting an IMF bailout. Like it's never Argentina. It

2516
02:30:22,680 --> 02:30:25,640
Speaker 1: won't be Argentina. It will be somewhere else. But someone is,

2517
02:30:25,720 --> 02:30:28,680
Speaker 1: someone is going to spend like two months doing a

2518
02:30:28,720 --> 02:30:32,520
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff that's extremely cool outside of Argentina. I

2519
02:30:32,879 --> 02:30:35,279
Speaker 1: kind of think, um, I don't know, I'll be interested

2520
02:30:35,280 --> 02:30:38,560
Speaker 1: to see what happens in Brazil because um, it's hard

2521
02:30:38,600 --> 02:30:41,920
Speaker 1: to get a sense for the exact numbers, but there's

2522
02:30:41,920 --> 02:30:44,800
Speaker 1: potential there. There is potential there with what's happened in

2523
02:30:44,800 --> 02:30:48,400
Speaker 1: Bolivia and what's happened in Chile. There's there's momentum in

2524
02:30:48,800 --> 02:30:53,520
Speaker 1: its exciting broad area, like I mean, like the osis

2525
02:30:54,000 --> 02:30:56,760
Speaker 1: there's shoot, there's like enormous protest in Brazil like all

2526
02:30:56,800 --> 02:30:59,080
Speaker 1: the time. Yeah, sure, yeah, there's like massive. It just

2527
02:30:59,120 --> 02:31:02,040
Speaker 1: hasn't sort of like okay, like it hasn't turned into

2528
02:31:02,360 --> 02:31:05,720
Speaker 1: like everyone fighting the cops and like yeah, and maybe

2529
02:31:05,760 --> 02:31:09,640
Speaker 1: I don't know if it will because like I don't know.

2530
02:31:09,720 --> 02:31:12,640
Speaker 1: I mean, this is this is this is my vibes

2531
02:31:12,720 --> 02:31:16,240
Speaker 1: based interpretation of it. But it feels like the Workers

2532
02:31:16,280 --> 02:31:19,440
Speaker 1: Party has enough of a handle on the protests that

2533
02:31:19,480 --> 02:31:23,200
Speaker 1: they're not going to sort of like explode because the

2534
02:31:23,200 --> 02:31:26,120
Speaker 1: PT just wants to win its election and get out

2535
02:31:26,160 --> 02:31:30,200
Speaker 1: of Bilsonaro. Well yeah, and I mean the possibility of

2536
02:31:30,200 --> 02:31:34,040
Speaker 1: any kind of like actual revolutionary insurrection anything relies heavily

2537
02:31:34,040 --> 02:31:38,440
Speaker 1: on like that path not working for people, like they're

2538
02:31:38,480 --> 02:31:40,160
Speaker 1: not that they're not being that kind of safety. But well,

2539
02:31:40,160 --> 02:31:42,520
Speaker 1: I mean I say this, if they arrest Lula again,

2540
02:31:42,879 --> 02:31:47,080
Speaker 1: like yeah, I don't think Boson like will die in

2541
02:31:47,080 --> 02:31:50,200
Speaker 1: his own ship, Like yeah, that might happen even if

2542
02:31:50,240 --> 02:31:52,640
Speaker 1: his party stays in power. I mean that he was

2543
02:31:52,760 --> 02:31:55,840
Speaker 1: actively dying as we would record this episode, which is

2544
02:31:55,959 --> 02:31:59,640
Speaker 1: very funny. Um I got as a result of one

2545
02:31:59,680 --> 02:32:03,119
Speaker 1: of our ad campaigns, several or a picture frames uh

2546
02:32:03,200 --> 02:32:05,760
Speaker 1: this year, and right now we're loading one up. That's

2547
02:32:05,800 --> 02:32:07,800
Speaker 1: just pictures of sick bowls in yarrow to keep in

2548
02:32:07,879 --> 02:32:10,280
Speaker 1: my living room. So anytime I walk past, I can

2549
02:32:10,320 --> 02:32:12,720
Speaker 1: look at JayR. Bolton narrow and hacking up a lung

2550
02:32:13,120 --> 02:32:18,360
Speaker 1: or having ships sucked out of his nose from a tube. Um,

2551
02:32:18,400 --> 02:32:20,520
Speaker 1: I will say, oh, by my one more like very

2552
02:32:20,560 --> 02:32:22,800
Speaker 1: fast prediction about this is that Kissinger is gonna live.

2553
02:32:22,879 --> 02:32:29,840
Speaker 1: He's not gonna die. Chris I allowed myself to hope

2554
02:32:29,840 --> 02:32:32,240
Speaker 1: for one for about I allow myself to hope for

2555
02:32:32,280 --> 02:32:35,360
Speaker 1: about eight hours, and I think it's gonna live, but

2556
02:32:35,600 --> 02:32:38,279
Speaker 1: immediately wrong. I don't know. It would have been pretty

2557
02:32:38,320 --> 02:32:41,240
Speaker 1: cool if Betty White's last action had been some sort

2558
02:32:41,280 --> 02:32:47,879
Speaker 1: of anti takeout Kissinger. She becomes the most loved American

2559
02:32:47,920 --> 02:32:50,320
Speaker 1: and human history, like goes out just like jumping out

2560
02:32:50,360 --> 02:32:55,680
Speaker 1: of an airplane, Like she parachutes into Kissinger's house with

2561
02:32:55,720 --> 02:33:03,160
Speaker 1: a flansing knife. Of I'm gonna say, in Colorado, Oregon

2562
02:33:03,320 --> 02:33:07,440
Speaker 1: or Washington, we're going to get our first safe uh

2563
02:33:07,760 --> 02:33:11,120
Speaker 1: drug injections site opened. I know they've been very pretty good.

2564
02:33:11,320 --> 02:33:14,760
Speaker 1: They've been They've been very successful inside different parts of Canada,

2565
02:33:14,800 --> 02:33:18,760
Speaker 1: specifically Vancouver, BC. And I believe one of those three

2566
02:33:18,760 --> 02:33:20,920
Speaker 1: states is going to get the first one. Um, I

2567
02:33:20,959 --> 02:33:23,080
Speaker 1: hope it's all of them. You want to support some

2568
02:33:23,120 --> 02:33:25,200
Speaker 1: of those people up in Canada go to Heroin Martin

2569
02:33:25,240 --> 02:33:30,080
Speaker 1: by a shoot dope the cops hoodie. Yeah, but say

2570
02:33:30,280 --> 02:33:34,680
Speaker 1: like safe safe drug injection and ingestion sites are have

2571
02:33:34,800 --> 02:33:38,520
Speaker 1: been have been very good at preventing deaths in Vancouver, BC.

2572
02:33:39,040 --> 02:33:40,920
Speaker 1: And there's just a good idea in general. And I

2573
02:33:40,920 --> 02:33:43,360
Speaker 1: will be excited at the prospect. They're an incredibly good

2574
02:33:43,400 --> 02:33:46,520
Speaker 1: idea and they also if you're trying to again talk

2575
02:33:46,560 --> 02:33:49,800
Speaker 1: about this to conservatives in your life, they're cheaper than

2576
02:33:49,959 --> 02:33:52,879
Speaker 1: just letting people be addicted to drugs on the street

2577
02:33:52,920 --> 02:33:56,920
Speaker 1: because people don't steal stuff. Also, their heroin is free. Also,

2578
02:33:56,959 --> 02:33:59,280
Speaker 1: they won't have ridiculous medical bills. They get paid by

2579
02:33:59,280 --> 02:34:02,680
Speaker 1: the state, and they're more likely to seek treatment even

2580
02:34:02,720 --> 02:34:05,960
Speaker 1: if you don't mandate that, especially if you don't mandate that,

2581
02:34:06,040 --> 02:34:10,119
Speaker 1: because as a rule, people don't like having problematic addictions

2582
02:34:10,120 --> 02:34:13,440
Speaker 1: to drugs, and if they can deal with their immediate

2583
02:34:13,480 --> 02:34:16,640
Speaker 1: needs and also know that there's help available, they will

2584
02:34:16,680 --> 02:34:20,480
Speaker 1: often choose to get help. So and I think I

2585
02:34:20,520 --> 02:34:23,959
Speaker 1: have I have one more actual prediction is that a

2586
02:34:24,000 --> 02:34:27,000
Speaker 1: new Matrix video game will be announced, and that is

2587
02:34:27,120 --> 02:34:29,600
Speaker 1: that is all of my predictions. Oh, we should probably

2588
02:34:29,600 --> 02:34:32,000
Speaker 1: talk about Matrix for briefly. That's what the people want.

2589
02:34:32,080 --> 02:34:36,320
Speaker 1: Garrison and And for the record, this is going to

2590
02:34:36,360 --> 02:34:39,440
Speaker 1: be controversial because some people have no taste, but we

2591
02:34:39,520 --> 02:34:43,720
Speaker 1: both think it fucking ruled. It is possibly the best

2592
02:34:43,760 --> 02:34:47,320
Speaker 1: Matrix film. It was really fun, it's it's very good

2593
02:34:47,360 --> 02:34:49,320
Speaker 1: if you think about it, for any amount of time.

2594
02:34:49,440 --> 02:34:53,840
Speaker 1: It gets very good in the way it addresses, um,

2595
02:34:53,879 --> 02:34:57,080
Speaker 1: the system's power to incorporate revolt as a part of

2596
02:34:57,120 --> 02:35:00,880
Speaker 1: the system, which was already teased inside me a monetie,

2597
02:35:00,000 --> 02:35:03,840
Speaker 1: it's reloaded. But yeah, like the matrix using the weapon

2598
02:35:03,920 --> 02:35:05,959
Speaker 1: that wants to find you against you, and the matrix

2599
02:35:06,080 --> 02:35:11,880
Speaker 1: weaponizing all of your ideas against you. UM is very good. UM.

2600
02:35:11,920 --> 02:35:13,760
Speaker 1: I know Lana put a lot of thought into this,

2601
02:35:13,879 --> 02:35:17,480
Speaker 1: particularly around who she is, how she's developed, and how

2602
02:35:17,560 --> 02:35:21,760
Speaker 1: her work has been turned against her and what she believes. UM,

2603
02:35:21,800 --> 02:35:24,440
Speaker 1: both by like the people and also like corporately in

2604
02:35:24,560 --> 02:35:28,240
Speaker 1: terms of like achieving the correct amount of meta that

2605
02:35:28,320 --> 02:35:32,480
Speaker 1: it's not useless drivel while still actually being aware of

2606
02:35:32,520 --> 02:35:35,240
Speaker 1: what it is. UM. I think was done well. I

2607
02:35:35,280 --> 02:35:38,119
Speaker 1: know there's there's some people and like the postmodern thing,

2608
02:35:38,160 --> 02:35:41,520
Speaker 1: who think it don't who think it doesn't go meta enough,

2609
02:35:41,560 --> 02:35:44,119
Speaker 1: And I think that's nonsense, because if you go any

2610
02:35:44,160 --> 02:35:46,879
Speaker 1: if you if you point out that pointing out that

2611
02:35:47,000 --> 02:35:49,760
Speaker 1: pointing out revolting against the system is part of the system,

2612
02:35:50,000 --> 02:35:52,760
Speaker 1: then you've lost everybody, Like no one cares because you

2613
02:35:52,959 --> 02:35:56,119
Speaker 1: can add on those layers endlessly and it's just dribble. Um.

2614
02:35:56,160 --> 02:35:58,840
Speaker 1: So I think they got the correct amount of meta. Well,

2615
02:35:58,920 --> 02:36:01,199
Speaker 1: then a bend, not not banning that idea, but moving

2616
02:36:01,240 --> 02:36:02,720
Speaker 1: it on me, like you know, you know, it's more

2617
02:36:02,760 --> 02:36:05,920
Speaker 1: important than being meta is making friends and finding human

2618
02:36:05,959 --> 02:36:09,560
Speaker 1: connections because going through the world like this isolated like

2619
02:36:09,600 --> 02:36:12,039
Speaker 1: Thomas Anderson is when he's in the Matrix, as like

2620
02:36:12,120 --> 02:36:14,160
Speaker 1: as as games that are a big part of that

2621
02:36:14,200 --> 02:36:16,760
Speaker 1: problem is that he's very isolated. And the whole point

2622
02:36:16,840 --> 02:36:19,680
Speaker 1: is like, no, you need to find friends, find connections,

2623
02:36:20,000 --> 02:36:23,720
Speaker 1: get like like be have people around you to build

2624
02:36:23,720 --> 02:36:27,040
Speaker 1: a network of and they actually start like like loving

2625
02:36:27,080 --> 02:36:30,280
Speaker 1: other people is really one of the only ways out

2626
02:36:30,320 --> 02:36:34,480
Speaker 1: of this looping cycle and layering of Matrix is that

2627
02:36:34,520 --> 02:36:39,400
Speaker 1: we always live in Um. It was. It's a wonderful film.

2628
02:36:39,600 --> 02:36:41,800
Speaker 1: I can talk I can talk about it for hours,

2629
02:36:41,840 --> 02:36:44,800
Speaker 1: but we could do a whole podcast about why we

2630
02:36:44,879 --> 02:36:48,840
Speaker 1: enjoyed Matrix four um but it's it's pretty fun and

2631
02:36:49,040 --> 02:36:51,120
Speaker 1: my only the only thing I'll add to that is

2632
02:36:51,440 --> 02:36:54,280
Speaker 1: a lot of people, fools is what I call them,

2633
02:36:54,400 --> 02:36:56,400
Speaker 1: are angry at the fact that it ended with the

2634
02:36:56,440 --> 02:37:00,560
Speaker 1: Brass Against cover of he was so good. It was

2635
02:37:00,640 --> 02:37:06,120
Speaker 1: so good it was, and it the cover of that

2636
02:37:06,360 --> 02:37:09,000
Speaker 1: song opens an exactly so that the singer, the lead

2637
02:37:09,000 --> 02:37:13,400
Speaker 1: singer of Brass Against became briefly famous mid late last

2638
02:37:13,480 --> 02:37:17,960
Speaker 1: year UM when during while playing that exact song on stage,

2639
02:37:18,080 --> 02:37:22,520
Speaker 1: she urinated into a fan's mouth and the song that

2640
02:37:23,080 --> 02:37:25,600
Speaker 1: the cover that ends the Matrix starts at exactly the

2641
02:37:25,640 --> 02:37:27,720
Speaker 1: moment where she pete in that guy's mouth during the

2642
02:37:27,720 --> 02:37:30,800
Speaker 1: live show. And I am certain that Lana Wachowski was

2643
02:37:30,800 --> 02:37:33,760
Speaker 1: planning to use the original Rage against the Machine version

2644
02:37:33,800 --> 02:37:36,840
Speaker 1: of that song, and then that news dropped and was like, well,

2645
02:37:36,879 --> 02:37:39,400
Speaker 1: let's get these Brass Against people. I I want, I

2646
02:37:39,440 --> 02:37:45,480
Speaker 1: want the Piste song on other thing I wanted. Theory

2647
02:37:45,520 --> 02:37:49,879
Speaker 1: is reflecting on the analyst as a character and how

2648
02:37:49,920 --> 02:37:54,160
Speaker 1: he relates to kind of the meat space argument and

2649
02:37:54,200 --> 02:37:57,680
Speaker 1: how digital systems and algorithms and social media operates. He

2650
02:37:57,879 --> 02:38:01,560
Speaker 1: if you listen to him talk um and within the

2651
02:38:01,600 --> 02:38:04,840
Speaker 1: whole context, within the whole context of the film, he um.

2652
02:38:05,480 --> 02:38:08,760
Speaker 1: They think there's actually some more insightful points than what

2653
02:38:08,840 --> 02:38:12,480
Speaker 1: you might originally suspect around like social media UM and

2654
02:38:12,959 --> 02:38:18,240
Speaker 1: digital nous versus realness um just always you know, always

2655
02:38:18,280 --> 02:38:21,320
Speaker 1: a factor in in Matrix films, but the way the

2656
02:38:21,320 --> 02:38:22,720
Speaker 1: way they handle it in this soil much thing is

2657
02:38:22,720 --> 02:38:24,800
Speaker 1: a lot more mature than all the topics they handle

2658
02:38:24,840 --> 02:38:27,320
Speaker 1: in their previous films. And I mean there's just so

2659
02:38:27,360 --> 02:38:30,640
Speaker 1: many like really good, like single lines that offer like

2660
02:38:30,760 --> 02:38:33,280
Speaker 1: really good like oh wow, like that's just like a

2661
02:38:33,440 --> 02:38:35,800
Speaker 1: very good point, and then they just move past them

2662
02:38:35,840 --> 02:38:39,119
Speaker 1: so like so effortlessly, like you could focus on any

2663
02:38:39,120 --> 02:38:41,680
Speaker 1: one of those really good lines, and they just offer

2664
02:38:41,760 --> 02:38:45,039
Speaker 1: up so many and at many points. And I like

2665
02:38:45,120 --> 02:38:48,560
Speaker 1: that they turned the Mayor of Engian into Ted Kaczynski. Um,

2666
02:38:48,600 --> 02:38:50,680
Speaker 1: it's just fun. Like at the end of the day,

2667
02:38:51,360 --> 02:38:55,400
Speaker 1: it's just actually really fun and it doesn't feel exactly

2668
02:38:55,440 --> 02:38:57,640
Speaker 1: like the other movies in the series, which is what

2669
02:38:57,680 --> 02:38:59,720
Speaker 1: I want. I don't like reboots. I wasn't a fan

2670
02:38:59,760 --> 02:39:03,560
Speaker 1: of the Star Wars reboot because it was like I've

2671
02:39:03,560 --> 02:39:06,440
Speaker 1: seen this again, Yeah, yeah, I I like I like

2672
02:39:06,520 --> 02:39:08,640
Speaker 1: that it. I like that a lot of the action

2673
02:39:08,680 --> 02:39:10,360
Speaker 1: in this movie, right up until kind of the end

2674
02:39:10,360 --> 02:39:13,960
Speaker 1: feels perfunctory and like I like like kind of saying

2675
02:39:14,000 --> 02:39:16,320
Speaker 1: like I don't care about this part anymore, Like I've

2676
02:39:16,360 --> 02:39:21,000
Speaker 1: done the guy's fighting agents and bullet time. Um that

2677
02:39:21,120 --> 02:39:24,000
Speaker 1: you know, at the end there's some more some more

2678
02:39:24,200 --> 02:39:27,280
Speaker 1: loving action set pieces, but like from the beginning, it's

2679
02:39:27,400 --> 02:39:30,440
Speaker 1: very much it's much more like a really fun commentary

2680
02:39:30,600 --> 02:39:34,000
Speaker 1: on how Hollywood works and how the video game industry works.

2681
02:39:34,280 --> 02:39:36,720
Speaker 1: There's a fucking mass effect joke in there. There's a

2682
02:39:36,800 --> 02:39:39,600
Speaker 1: joke about like the nineteen nine, nine or two thousand

2683
02:39:39,600 --> 02:39:43,039
Speaker 1: Matrix video game that happened before Garrison was born. It's

2684
02:39:43,120 --> 02:39:45,560
Speaker 1: so fun. It's it's just a lot of fun as

2685
02:39:45,600 --> 02:39:52,400
Speaker 1: a movie. It's rad mhm. Well, um, any any other

2686
02:39:52,480 --> 02:39:58,240
Speaker 1: final final predictions before we wrap up this this extremely

2687
02:39:58,320 --> 02:40:01,000
Speaker 1: well thought through episode that we port our hearts and

2688
02:40:01,040 --> 02:40:03,520
Speaker 1: minds into. We really did. Dr oz is going to

2689
02:40:03,600 --> 02:40:07,439
Speaker 1: go down in flames. Oh I hope so? Oh man.

2690
02:40:08,120 --> 02:40:10,120
Speaker 1: I really have no idea what to expect from I

2691
02:40:10,120 --> 02:40:12,640
Speaker 1: have no idea. I'm not making I'm not making any

2692
02:40:12,640 --> 02:40:16,440
Speaker 1: prediction on that because I too have no idea. The

2693
02:40:16,440 --> 02:40:18,360
Speaker 1: only thing that I'll say is that one way or

2694
02:40:18,400 --> 02:40:19,959
Speaker 1: the other, it's going to be a bell weather. If

2695
02:40:20,000 --> 02:40:22,199
Speaker 1: it like goes great for him and he wins easily,

2696
02:40:22,280 --> 02:40:25,160
Speaker 1: we're going to see a lot more like Dr Phil

2697
02:40:25,280 --> 02:40:29,360
Speaker 1: is absolutely rolling into Congress. If that works for oz

2698
02:40:30,160 --> 02:40:33,680
Speaker 1: Um and other other people who are kind of occupy

2699
02:40:33,800 --> 02:40:36,480
Speaker 1: similar cultural spaces, will do the same thing, and then

2700
02:40:36,520 --> 02:40:40,760
Speaker 1: we'll have congressional inquiries about whether or not this simple

2701
02:40:40,800 --> 02:40:46,200
Speaker 1: trick will burn belly fat. It's gonna if it's like like,

2702
02:40:46,240 --> 02:40:48,600
Speaker 1: if that's what happens. Like the thing, the thing Trump

2703
02:40:48,680 --> 02:40:51,840
Speaker 1: is going to be remembered for like is being like, well,

2704
02:40:51,879 --> 02:40:53,560
Speaker 1: the thing the thing Reagan is going to be remembered

2705
02:40:53,600 --> 02:40:56,840
Speaker 1: for is being just like like fifty years ahead of

2706
02:40:56,840 --> 02:41:00,680
Speaker 1: his time before. We're literally all entirely ruled just reality

2707
02:41:00,720 --> 02:41:05,920
Speaker 1: TV stars mm hm whose wives are great at giving head?

2708
02:41:09,760 --> 02:41:12,360
Speaker 1: Should I? Did anyone? Did everyone already forget that Nancy

2709
02:41:12,400 --> 02:41:21,280
Speaker 1: Reagan throat goat discourse? Discourse? Everyone was so exhausted. Yeah,

2710
02:41:21,560 --> 02:41:24,720
Speaker 1: if you didn't catch this, it's a very well known

2711
02:41:24,879 --> 02:41:27,280
Speaker 1: secret and has been for like fifty years that back

2712
02:41:27,360 --> 02:41:30,320
Speaker 1: before they got married and probably after. Nancy was famous

2713
02:41:30,360 --> 02:41:34,960
Speaker 1: for giving the best blow jobs in Hollywood as as

2714
02:41:35,000 --> 02:41:40,640
Speaker 1: as Garrison tosses the cat every single episode. So I

2715
02:41:40,720 --> 02:41:50,520
Speaker 1: disdained this discourse. Now, yeah, two, it's a year, We're

2716
02:41:50,520 --> 02:41:52,840
Speaker 1: in it. Okay. My My last prediction is I actually

2717
02:41:52,920 --> 02:41:56,800
Speaker 1: do think this year is gonna suck slightly less? Did me? Now?

2718
02:41:57,480 --> 02:41:59,160
Speaker 1: This is probably the big one. I'm gonna eat it on,

2719
02:41:59,240 --> 02:42:02,920
Speaker 1: but like, hopefully you don't happen, hopefully you're right about it.

2720
02:42:02,959 --> 02:42:06,840
Speaker 1: So I'm um, no, yeah, I think that there's a

2721
02:42:06,879 --> 02:42:10,600
Speaker 1: decent chance that we're that it's better. Um, it's at

2722
02:42:10,640 --> 02:42:13,199
Speaker 1: least in some ways. The climate stuff, as it nearly

2723
02:42:13,240 --> 02:42:16,240
Speaker 1: always will for the foreseeable future, will keep getting worse.

2724
02:42:16,320 --> 02:42:18,960
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think there's actually a chance that COVID

2725
02:42:18,959 --> 02:42:21,840
Speaker 1: will get better, not because of any policy decision, but

2726
02:42:21,879 --> 02:42:26,520
Speaker 1: because O Macron literally nine of human beings and in

2727
02:42:26,560 --> 02:42:31,160
Speaker 1: the world get it, and those that survive COVID stops

2728
02:42:31,160 --> 02:42:33,920
Speaker 1: passing on as much, which is kind of vaguely speaking

2729
02:42:33,959 --> 02:42:38,160
Speaker 1: what happened with you know, the influenza. I will be

2730
02:42:40,000 --> 02:42:43,119
Speaker 1: probably foolish in making one more prediction, that is, like

2731
02:42:43,480 --> 02:42:46,480
Speaker 1: around the fall, we will not see spikes as big

2732
02:42:46,520 --> 02:42:49,800
Speaker 1: as we saw this last year. Um. I do think

2733
02:42:50,240 --> 02:42:52,080
Speaker 1: there will probably still be some, but I do think

2734
02:42:52,080 --> 02:42:56,240
Speaker 1: the numbers are going to be generally trending down. Um. Yeah,

2735
02:42:56,400 --> 02:42:58,480
Speaker 1: after O Macron hits its peak, just because how do

2736
02:42:58,560 --> 02:43:03,520
Speaker 1: people will get infected? Many antibodies plus vaccines will be circulating, um,

2737
02:43:03,560 --> 02:43:06,280
Speaker 1: and how many people have already been who don't take

2738
02:43:06,280 --> 02:43:11,000
Speaker 1: the vaccine have will already have like died off. It's

2739
02:43:11,200 --> 02:43:13,440
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that to be like flip into to

2740
02:43:13,520 --> 02:43:15,920
Speaker 1: be like, but it's like, I just that's what the

2741
02:43:15,959 --> 02:43:19,120
Speaker 1: world that it's the world that we live in. I

2742
02:43:19,240 --> 02:43:23,160
Speaker 1: hate it, um, but I do hope and I do

2743
02:43:23,280 --> 02:43:28,280
Speaker 1: hope and some slightly predict that we'll have less less

2744
02:43:28,280 --> 02:43:31,640
Speaker 1: spiking numbers around this next fall and winter as we

2745
02:43:31,680 --> 02:43:34,000
Speaker 1: did of this current you know, fall and winter season.

2746
02:43:34,440 --> 02:43:37,879
Speaker 1: I wouldn't mind ending on a note of appreciation for

2747
02:43:37,920 --> 02:43:40,480
Speaker 1: the fucking booster because we got it. You and I

2748
02:43:40,520 --> 02:43:42,760
Speaker 1: both garrison, as did most of our friends, and had

2749
02:43:43,240 --> 02:43:47,800
Speaker 1: just a shipload of COVID flying around us everywhere. I

2750
02:43:47,879 --> 02:43:51,560
Speaker 1: love a lot of infections, and we were fine, fine.

2751
02:43:52,200 --> 02:43:56,039
Speaker 1: I have one of my friends got COVID and her mom,

2752
02:43:56,120 --> 02:43:58,560
Speaker 1: who they live in the same house, did not has

2753
02:43:58,600 --> 02:44:02,000
Speaker 1: not gotten COVID because wearing masks and they got the booster.

2754
02:44:03,240 --> 02:44:05,760
Speaker 1: And for for all my friends that that did get

2755
02:44:05,800 --> 02:44:11,960
Speaker 1: COVID that had that were boosted, the vaccine didn't there.

2756
02:44:12,040 --> 02:44:15,000
Speaker 1: You're not in the hospital. You're double test positive on

2757
02:44:15,080 --> 02:44:18,160
Speaker 1: a rapid test and then test negative on a PCR,

2758
02:44:18,560 --> 02:44:21,000
Speaker 1: probably because by the time he got to the PCR,

2759
02:44:21,120 --> 02:44:23,120
Speaker 1: like the next day, his viral load was just so

2760
02:44:23,240 --> 02:44:28,000
Speaker 1: fucking low. Um, get the third vacs, the vaccine works.

2761
02:44:28,080 --> 02:44:31,920
Speaker 1: Who could have predicted? Who could have predicted? The things

2762
02:44:32,000 --> 02:44:36,080
Speaker 1: that are literally the entire basis of our modern concept

2763
02:44:36,120 --> 02:44:39,440
Speaker 1: of the value of human life continue to be very effective?

2764
02:44:40,920 --> 02:44:46,720
Speaker 1: All right, Well that that doesn't for us. Um, unplugged,

2765
02:44:47,040 --> 02:44:51,920
Speaker 1: Go spend time outside, touch grass, touch your mirror, like

2766
02:44:52,080 --> 02:44:55,320
Speaker 1: trying to go through it, because you try to go through. Um,

2767
02:44:55,560 --> 02:44:59,080
Speaker 1: what's really it's not see if see if maybe you

2768
02:44:59,280 --> 02:45:02,800
Speaker 1: were the digital Messiah and you have been trapped in

2769
02:45:02,800 --> 02:45:06,640
Speaker 1: a simulation where you work at a food lion, um,

2770
02:45:06,680 --> 02:45:09,440
Speaker 1: and and you can break free of it, Um, but

2771
02:45:09,520 --> 02:45:13,080
Speaker 1: not fly anymore because now your girlfriends he does he

2772
02:45:13,160 --> 02:45:15,320
Speaker 1: does fly with Trinity at the end, he does fly

2773
02:45:15,400 --> 02:45:19,600
Speaker 1: with Trinity. Sure, just as we all can only fly

2774
02:45:19,920 --> 02:45:25,560
Speaker 1: with with well with Carrie at Masson's Yeah, specifically, who

2775
02:45:25,560 --> 02:45:28,080
Speaker 1: has gotten so much hotter as they? All? Right, Well,

2776
02:45:28,080 --> 02:45:38,800
Speaker 1: that's that's where we are. The Black Effect presents features

2777
02:45:38,800 --> 02:45:43,039
Speaker 1: honest conversations and exclusive interviews, a space for artists, everyday

2778
02:45:43,080 --> 02:45:47,480
Speaker 1: people and listeners to amplify, elevate, and empower black voices

2779
02:45:47,800 --> 02:45:50,800
Speaker 1: with great conversations. Make sure to listen to the Black

2780
02:45:50,800 --> 02:45:54,600
Speaker 1: Effect Presents podcast on I Heart Radio, Apple podcast or

2781
02:45:54,600 --> 02:46:01,920
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcast. Here's of the great American settlers.

2782
02:46:02,640 --> 02:46:06,720
Speaker 1: The millions of you have settled for unsatisfying jobs because

2783
02:46:06,760 --> 02:46:09,879
Speaker 1: they pay the bills, and you just kind of fell

2784
02:46:09,920 --> 02:46:14,440
Speaker 1: into it, and you know, it's like totally fine, just

2785
02:46:14,560 --> 02:46:18,200
Speaker 1: another few decades or so and then you can enjoy yourself.

2786
02:46:18,920 --> 02:46:22,040
Speaker 1: Of course, there is something else you could do. If

2787
02:46:22,040 --> 02:46:25,480
Speaker 1: you've got something to say, You could, I don't know,

2788
02:46:25,760 --> 02:46:29,920
Speaker 1: start up podcast with Spreaker from my heart and unleash

2789
02:46:29,959 --> 02:46:34,080
Speaker 1: your creative freedom and spend all day researching and talking

2790
02:46:34,120 --> 02:46:38,000
Speaker 1: about stuff you love and maybe even earn enough money

2791
02:46:38,040 --> 02:46:41,440
Speaker 1: to one day tell your irritating boss as you quit

2792
02:46:41,800 --> 02:46:46,359
Speaker 1: and walk off into the sunset. Hey I'm no settler,

2793
02:46:47,000 --> 02:46:53,200
Speaker 1: I'm an explorer. Spreaker dot com. That's spr e a

2794
02:46:53,480 --> 02:47:06,440
Speaker 1: k e er Hustle on over today. Hey, everybody, welcome

2795
02:47:06,480 --> 02:47:08,800
Speaker 1: to it could happen here. I am Robert Evans, and

2796
02:47:08,840 --> 02:47:10,720
Speaker 1: this is the show where we talk about how everything

2797
02:47:10,760 --> 02:47:12,720
Speaker 1: is kind of falling apart and how we might put

2798
02:47:12,760 --> 02:47:15,520
Speaker 1: it back together again in a way that works better

2799
02:47:15,720 --> 02:47:18,879
Speaker 1: than it did before. Um or do something different that

2800
02:47:19,160 --> 02:47:22,760
Speaker 1: is even anyway, whatever, it's a show about the future

2801
02:47:22,840 --> 02:47:25,080
Speaker 1: and about the messed up present. Um And as a

2802
02:47:25,080 --> 02:47:26,600
Speaker 1: result of that, one of the things we talked about

2803
02:47:26,600 --> 02:47:29,120
Speaker 1: a lot is self sufficiency. We've had a number of

2804
02:47:29,120 --> 02:47:32,040
Speaker 1: episodes kind of covering the values of like replacing your

2805
02:47:32,080 --> 02:47:35,160
Speaker 1: lawn with food, guerilla gardening, that sort of stuff. And

2806
02:47:35,360 --> 02:47:37,440
Speaker 1: one of the critiques we get is people saying, well,

2807
02:47:37,440 --> 02:47:39,760
Speaker 1: you know, that's never gonna work on a large scale.

2808
02:47:39,760 --> 02:47:43,160
Speaker 1: It's never going to replace industrial agriculture or whatever. And

2809
02:47:43,480 --> 02:47:46,879
Speaker 1: that's perfectly true. But the point we're going for here

2810
02:47:46,920 --> 02:47:50,279
Speaker 1: and why we encourage these kind of resilience building activities

2811
02:47:50,360 --> 02:47:53,480
Speaker 1: is because they do improve the ability of communities to

2812
02:47:53,560 --> 02:47:57,000
Speaker 1: resist when they need to resist, and also provide opportunities

2813
02:47:57,200 --> 02:48:00,680
Speaker 1: by which people can reimagine their relationship to, for example,

2814
02:48:00,680 --> 02:48:03,400
Speaker 1: the food supply chain, or reimagine the relationship to their

2815
02:48:03,400 --> 02:48:06,120
Speaker 1: community and the kind of things that communities provide for

2816
02:48:06,160 --> 02:48:10,160
Speaker 1: each other rather than having them shipped in by Amazon. Um.

2817
02:48:10,280 --> 02:48:12,480
Speaker 1: And when we start talking about that, when we start

2818
02:48:12,560 --> 02:48:16,440
Speaker 1: talking about improving community resiliency for things like, you know,

2819
02:48:16,640 --> 02:48:20,879
Speaker 1: a general strike or even potentially more radical stuff, one

2820
02:48:20,879 --> 02:48:23,720
Speaker 1: of the big issues that any community has to confront

2821
02:48:23,840 --> 02:48:26,640
Speaker 1: is not just food but medicine. I'm I do, and

2822
02:48:26,640 --> 02:48:28,680
Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of other people have friends who

2823
02:48:28,959 --> 02:48:33,959
Speaker 1: cannot survive without medications that are very like reliant upon

2824
02:48:34,120 --> 02:48:37,959
Speaker 1: existing supply chains UM, and to some extent even the

2825
02:48:37,959 --> 02:48:41,199
Speaker 1: stability of the government. You know, UM, getting your insulin,

2826
02:48:41,320 --> 02:48:45,280
Speaker 1: getting your medication for whatever kind of disease you have

2827
02:48:45,480 --> 02:48:47,760
Speaker 1: that that needs constant medication. There's a bunch of different

2828
02:48:47,800 --> 02:48:51,680
Speaker 1: reasons why people are reliant upon the medical UM supply

2829
02:48:51,760 --> 02:48:54,960
Speaker 1: lines and upon the kind of pharmaceutical industry. And that's

2830
02:48:55,000 --> 02:48:57,040
Speaker 1: one of the big when we talk about building more

2831
02:48:57,160 --> 02:48:59,920
Speaker 1: resilient communities, one of the big hurdles to jump. Well. Today,

2832
02:49:00,400 --> 02:49:04,600
Speaker 1: my guest is someone who is working on bridging some

2833
02:49:04,680 --> 02:49:07,720
Speaker 1: of these problems. UM. His name is Michael Lawfer, and

2834
02:49:07,760 --> 02:49:10,400
Speaker 1: he is the founder of an organization called the Four

2835
02:49:10,480 --> 02:49:15,040
Speaker 1: Thieves Vinegar Collective. They are bio hackers UM, and they

2836
02:49:15,080 --> 02:49:21,160
Speaker 1: are working on cracking certain pharmaceutical medications to allow individuals

2837
02:49:21,280 --> 02:49:25,520
Speaker 1: with resources that are generally available to people who are

2838
02:49:25,600 --> 02:49:31,879
Speaker 1: not rich or pharmaceutical companies UM, to produce life saving medications. UM.

2839
02:49:31,920 --> 02:49:34,000
Speaker 1: The number one thing you would have heard of from

2840
02:49:34,000 --> 02:49:36,920
Speaker 1: Four Thieves is the EPI pencil, which we'll talk about

2841
02:49:36,959 --> 02:49:39,039
Speaker 1: in a bit. But first, Michael, thank you for coming

2842
02:49:39,040 --> 02:49:41,280
Speaker 1: on the show. Thanks so much for having me. It's

2843
02:49:41,320 --> 02:49:44,520
Speaker 1: exciting to be able to chat and talk with you

2844
02:49:44,640 --> 02:49:47,840
Speaker 1: and all the people surrounding you who are trying to

2845
02:49:49,000 --> 02:49:52,960
Speaker 1: just unfun things a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, and I

2846
02:49:53,760 --> 02:49:56,080
Speaker 1: most of the conversation I want to have today is

2847
02:49:56,120 --> 02:49:59,400
Speaker 1: on the unfucking of things variety. But I do think

2848
02:49:59,440 --> 02:50:01,920
Speaker 1: we should start with a little bit of technical talk first.

2849
02:50:02,440 --> 02:50:05,320
Speaker 1: Can you give people an idea of what kind of

2850
02:50:05,360 --> 02:50:08,600
Speaker 1: medications you and other people in the collective have figured

2851
02:50:08,600 --> 02:50:12,519
Speaker 1: out how to produce um and what kind of resources

2852
02:50:12,520 --> 02:50:14,800
Speaker 1: and individual needs to be able to do some of

2853
02:50:14,840 --> 02:50:20,039
Speaker 1: this stuff. Sure. So, from a technical perspective, most of

2854
02:50:20,080 --> 02:50:22,680
Speaker 1: the things that we focus on are what's called small

2855
02:50:22,720 --> 02:50:29,240
Speaker 1: molecule chemistry. And to kind of describe that blanketly, if

2856
02:50:29,280 --> 02:50:31,760
Speaker 1: you can draw the molecule on a cocktail napkin, it

2857
02:50:31,800 --> 02:50:34,760
Speaker 1: probably qualifies as a small molecule if it's one of

2858
02:50:34,800 --> 02:50:37,080
Speaker 1: these things that, like, you know, if you look at

2859
02:50:37,120 --> 02:50:40,039
Speaker 1: the diagram for the molecules approaching, it's got big ribbons

2860
02:50:40,040 --> 02:50:43,000
Speaker 1: that are colored and stuff that's a that's a biochem thing.

2861
02:50:43,000 --> 02:50:48,080
Speaker 1: And it's a whole different set of problems now. The

2862
02:50:48,360 --> 02:50:57,560
Speaker 1: mean focide that we've had have been surrounding access to abortion,

2863
02:50:58,200 --> 02:51:05,199
Speaker 1: access to HIV medications, access to hepatitis C medications, and

2864
02:51:05,480 --> 02:51:09,280
Speaker 1: access to reversal of drug overdose medications. So that's been

2865
02:51:09,320 --> 02:51:11,480
Speaker 1: sort of our main focus, but there's been a handful

2866
02:51:11,520 --> 02:51:14,080
Speaker 1: of others. The things that we tend to look for

2867
02:51:14,120 --> 02:51:19,000
Speaker 1: our where are there things that there's a great need

2868
02:51:19,520 --> 02:51:23,040
Speaker 1: and there's a huge barrier, And so you see those

2869
02:51:23,320 --> 02:51:27,600
Speaker 1: in those places a lot, because the three main barriers

2870
02:51:27,640 --> 02:51:31,120
Speaker 1: that tend to pop up between somebody and access to

2871
02:51:31,120 --> 02:51:36,000
Speaker 1: the medication they need are either price or legality or

2872
02:51:36,080 --> 02:51:41,880
Speaker 1: lack of infrastructure. And typically the weirdness that comes up

2873
02:51:43,320 --> 02:51:51,440
Speaker 1: mostly surrounds price because of intellectual property laws and marginalization

2874
02:51:51,800 --> 02:51:56,440
Speaker 1: of people who suffer from particular ailments or seem to

2875
02:51:56,480 --> 02:52:00,879
Speaker 1: suffer predominantly from particular ailments. And so if you're if

2876
02:52:00,879 --> 02:52:03,240
Speaker 1: you're poor, and you're in a class of people that

2877
02:52:04,120 --> 02:52:06,320
Speaker 1: is seen as something not to be cared about because

2878
02:52:06,360 --> 02:52:12,520
Speaker 1: they're not a strong voter base, then the ability to

2879
02:52:12,720 --> 02:52:17,240
Speaker 1: move access away from those people and put in more

2880
02:52:17,360 --> 02:52:24,800
Speaker 1: barriers and raise prices becomes easier to defend UM. So,

2881
02:52:25,760 --> 02:52:33,000
Speaker 1: the first drug that we focused on was a an

2882
02:52:33,040 --> 02:52:43,840
Speaker 1: anti parasitic. Um. Toxoplasmosis is a parasite that's pretty innocuous

2883
02:52:44,000 --> 02:52:47,120
Speaker 1: for most people anybody when you get from cats, right

2884
02:52:47,200 --> 02:52:49,520
Speaker 1: or is this not Gandhi it is. It is the

2885
02:52:49,520 --> 02:52:52,240
Speaker 1: one you get from cats. And it's really fascinating parasite too,

2886
02:52:52,280 --> 02:52:55,480
Speaker 1: if you if you ever dig into the behavioral biology

2887
02:52:55,520 --> 02:52:58,560
Speaker 1: of it, it's really really fascinating parasite. UM. I probably

2888
02:52:58,600 --> 02:53:01,920
Speaker 1: have it. Yeah, I have three cats. I definitely have it.

2889
02:53:03,240 --> 02:53:06,760
Speaker 1: So and so it's not a big deal for those people.

2890
02:53:06,840 --> 02:53:09,560
Speaker 1: But if you have a massively compromised immune system, especially

2891
02:53:09,600 --> 02:53:12,680
Speaker 1: with people with HIV or advanced stages of cancer, and

2892
02:53:12,720 --> 02:53:15,920
Speaker 1: that's why it was labeled sort of you know HIV drug,

2893
02:53:16,000 --> 02:53:18,119
Speaker 1: it's not it's a it's an anti parasitic. But it's

2894
02:53:18,240 --> 02:53:22,400
Speaker 1: used almost exclusively by people who are an advanced stages

2895
02:53:22,480 --> 02:53:27,560
Speaker 1: of cancer. Uh, people with fairly compromised immune systems from

2896
02:53:27,680 --> 02:53:31,200
Speaker 1: HIV or something else, and then pregnant women. Um, And

2897
02:53:31,280 --> 02:53:35,120
Speaker 1: it's not that big deal. If you have access to

2898
02:53:36,200 --> 02:53:40,240
Speaker 1: the medication, you can merely take it and eradicates from body. Uh.

2899
02:53:41,400 --> 02:53:43,600
Speaker 1: The difference was is that something that was a short

2900
02:53:43,640 --> 02:53:48,960
Speaker 1: course of treatment you take I think for um, you know,

2901
02:53:49,200 --> 02:53:55,240
Speaker 1: four doses the first time around, and then one dose

2902
02:53:55,320 --> 02:53:58,520
Speaker 1: each day subsequently for something like ten days, um. And

2903
02:53:58,600 --> 02:54:00,640
Speaker 1: that's not a big deal when each shows each pill

2904
02:54:00,680 --> 02:54:03,119
Speaker 1: was about thirteen and a half dollars and then Martin

2905
02:54:03,360 --> 02:54:06,600
Speaker 1: cry jacked up the price to seven fifty a pill,

2906
02:54:07,440 --> 02:54:10,640
Speaker 1: and so I'm like, well, this is ridiculous. That was

2907
02:54:10,680 --> 02:54:13,360
Speaker 1: the first one that we went after. Then of course

2908
02:54:13,400 --> 02:54:16,520
Speaker 1: access to abortion drugs, um, that's a big one. That's

2909
02:54:16,560 --> 02:54:21,440
Speaker 1: pretty topical. Lately. We released a video maybe three months

2910
02:54:21,480 --> 02:54:23,119
Speaker 1: ago on how you can make your own abortion pills

2911
02:54:23,120 --> 02:54:26,920
Speaker 1: without too much fuss. This would be mythopristone right uh

2912
02:54:27,360 --> 02:54:31,240
Speaker 1: Mitho pristone and Mr Pristall. So you can do it

2913
02:54:31,400 --> 02:54:35,760
Speaker 1: with just Mr Purstall, or you can do it in combination.

2914
02:54:36,480 --> 02:54:39,840
Speaker 1: And when you do it with just the one with

2915
02:54:40,040 --> 02:54:44,600
Speaker 1: just Miso, you have about an eighty five pc chance

2916
02:54:45,000 --> 02:54:48,400
Speaker 1: of it working. And if you have both. They bumps

2917
02:54:48,440 --> 02:54:51,120
Speaker 1: it up to about and what is the like what

2918
02:54:51,520 --> 02:54:53,160
Speaker 1: when you're doing this? And we'll talk a little bit

2919
02:54:53,160 --> 02:54:55,080
Speaker 1: with the hardware, but like what is the re agent

2920
02:54:55,520 --> 02:54:57,520
Speaker 1: that you have for this? Because I know that's been

2921
02:54:57,520 --> 02:54:59,200
Speaker 1: A big part of some of the discussions is like,

2922
02:54:59,240 --> 02:55:01,800
Speaker 1: how do you get the things you make the medicines from,

2923
02:55:01,840 --> 02:55:05,000
Speaker 1: which is easier for some than it is for others. Sure,

2924
02:55:05,160 --> 02:55:07,800
Speaker 1: there are a couple different ways that you google about that.

2925
02:55:08,400 --> 02:55:12,120
Speaker 1: The the interesting but more difficult way, of course, is

2926
02:55:12,160 --> 02:55:15,640
Speaker 1: to do the chemistry from scratch, where like you say,

2927
02:55:15,720 --> 02:55:19,120
Speaker 1: you get access from agents, you do some chemistry, and

2928
02:55:19,160 --> 02:55:24,000
Speaker 1: you end up with the active pharmaceutical ingredient, which we

2929
02:55:24,360 --> 02:55:26,080
Speaker 1: lovingly referred to as the A p I, and then

2930
02:55:26,120 --> 02:55:29,160
Speaker 1: you package it somehow into a tablet or a pill

2931
02:55:29,320 --> 02:55:38,879
Speaker 1: or or some other means of ingress into the body. Um.

2932
02:55:39,080 --> 02:55:46,160
Speaker 1: The instructions that we distributed skip the difficult part because

2933
02:55:47,600 --> 02:55:55,520
Speaker 1: Mr Pristal is an ulcer medication, and so, for instance,

2934
02:55:55,560 --> 02:55:59,680
Speaker 1: if you have access to Mexico or are in Mexico,

2935
02:55:59,800 --> 02:56:02,160
Speaker 1: it's kind of not a big deal because as an

2936
02:56:02,200 --> 02:56:05,000
Speaker 1: ulcer medication, it's over the counter and you can just

2937
02:56:05,040 --> 02:56:09,200
Speaker 1: go in and say, oh, you know, my grandmother can't

2938
02:56:09,200 --> 02:56:11,680
Speaker 1: get out of bed. She needs this ulcer medication. I

2939
02:56:11,720 --> 02:56:13,480
Speaker 1: need just a little bit of it to get her

2940
02:56:13,520 --> 02:56:17,959
Speaker 1: through the weekend. UM, and then no problem. Uh, not

2941
02:56:18,120 --> 02:56:21,320
Speaker 1: so easy in places where it's a little more controlled

2942
02:56:21,360 --> 02:56:30,760
Speaker 1: like the US. However, one amazing trick when looking for medicines,

2943
02:56:33,120 --> 02:56:37,240
Speaker 1: access to medicines that are generally blocked from people that

2944
02:56:37,360 --> 02:56:44,600
Speaker 1: the existing power structure tries to disenfranchise from access is

2945
02:56:44,640 --> 02:56:48,640
Speaker 1: you look and see if it's similarly used for other

2946
02:56:48,720 --> 02:56:54,000
Speaker 1: classes of person or being that the infrastructure does care about.

2947
02:56:54,360 --> 02:56:58,800
Speaker 1: So interestingly, you look for ulcer medication, you say, well, like, well,

2948
02:56:58,840 --> 02:57:02,160
Speaker 1: who else has ulcers that you know, people might think

2949
02:57:02,200 --> 02:57:05,200
Speaker 1: are important people. That doesn't really come up, and there

2950
02:57:05,240 --> 02:57:08,000
Speaker 1: are other ulster medications are a little bit better. However,

2951
02:57:09,000 --> 02:57:10,520
Speaker 1: there are a lot of really wealthy people in the

2952
02:57:10,560 --> 02:57:13,959
Speaker 1: United States, and really wealthy people tend to keep horses,

2953
02:57:15,520 --> 02:57:23,960
Speaker 1: and horses interestingly, um nine or something or maybe more,

2954
02:57:24,080 --> 02:57:31,480
Speaker 1: some ungodly percentage of domesticated horses have ulcers. Um. Now

2955
02:57:31,560 --> 02:57:36,040
Speaker 1: why that is, I'm not entirely clear about, but my

2956
02:57:36,120 --> 02:57:38,320
Speaker 1: own theory is that it has something to do with

2957
02:57:38,320 --> 02:57:41,200
Speaker 1: taking a gigantic wild animal and putting it into a

2958
02:57:41,280 --> 02:57:43,879
Speaker 1: very small box for most of its life. Yeah, it

2959
02:57:43,920 --> 02:57:47,760
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like the thing that horses evolved to do. Yeah.

2960
02:57:48,240 --> 02:57:53,640
Speaker 1: So so that said, people who are horse owners typically

2961
02:57:53,640 --> 02:57:56,720
Speaker 1: have to treat them constantly for ulcers and the best

2962
02:57:56,840 --> 02:58:00,520
Speaker 1: thing for that is Mr Prstal. And so you can

2963
02:58:00,600 --> 02:58:07,600
Speaker 1: get Mr Crystall powder in a tub from places that, yeah,

2964
02:58:07,680 --> 02:58:09,959
Speaker 1: feedstore or something. Yeah, I go to a feed store

2965
02:58:09,959 --> 02:58:12,040
Speaker 1: every week. I'm sure I could buy a bucket of

2966
02:58:12,120 --> 02:58:15,480
Speaker 1: this ship probably, So it comes in tubs. And the

2967
02:58:15,520 --> 02:58:17,400
Speaker 1: other thing that's great about it coming in a tub

2968
02:58:17,600 --> 02:58:21,320
Speaker 1: is that it's already in with a buffer. Part of

2969
02:58:21,320 --> 02:58:25,720
Speaker 1: the thing about Mr Crystall is that the dosages in micrograms,

2970
02:58:25,720 --> 02:58:27,600
Speaker 1: and that's very hard to weigh unless you have a

2971
02:58:27,640 --> 02:58:31,760
Speaker 1: really high precision scale. Even your good drug dealers generally

2972
02:58:31,760 --> 02:58:35,520
Speaker 1: don't have a scale that can do that, right. So,

2973
02:58:35,959 --> 02:58:38,119
Speaker 1: but the magic is this isn't a tub with a

2974
02:58:38,160 --> 02:58:42,480
Speaker 1: bunch of inert powder and it's it's already mixed up

2975
02:58:42,520 --> 02:58:45,080
Speaker 1: to be homogeneous. And so what you can do is

2976
02:58:45,080 --> 02:58:46,320
Speaker 1: you can do a little bit of back of the

2977
02:58:46,400 --> 02:58:51,800
Speaker 1: envelope arithmetic and you can measure out much larger quantities

2978
02:58:51,879 --> 02:58:55,280
Speaker 1: and know how much active ingredients you have and then

2979
02:58:55,280 --> 02:59:02,080
Speaker 1: pack that into a tablet. Now yeah, um, I mean

2980
02:59:02,080 --> 02:59:05,400
Speaker 1: that makes so much sense. And it's also like like

2981
02:59:05,520 --> 02:59:08,680
Speaker 1: the you have kind of the dark side and light

2982
02:59:08,760 --> 02:59:10,879
Speaker 1: side version. It's kind of the light side version of

2983
02:59:10,920 --> 02:59:14,400
Speaker 1: all of those people buying up ivermectin for for nonsense.

2984
02:59:14,440 --> 02:59:17,000
Speaker 1: It's like, well, no, there's reasons to buy you know,

2985
02:59:17,440 --> 02:59:23,240
Speaker 1: like uh, livestock medication especially. Um. I mean, I have

2986
02:59:23,240 --> 02:59:25,400
Speaker 1: a lot of friends who took fishing antibiotics back in

2987
02:59:25,440 --> 02:59:27,039
Speaker 1: the day, and this is kind of a much more

2988
02:59:27,959 --> 02:59:30,879
Speaker 1: um using it in a much more rigorous way to

2989
02:59:30,959 --> 02:59:35,160
Speaker 1: provide people with something that can is getting it will

2990
02:59:35,200 --> 02:59:37,560
Speaker 1: be getting increasingly difficult to access in a lot of

2991
02:59:37,560 --> 02:59:40,400
Speaker 1: parts of the country. Yeah, it's just such a smart

2992
02:59:40,440 --> 02:59:43,360
Speaker 1: way of approaching it, I think. Yeah. And one of

2993
02:59:43,360 --> 02:59:48,280
Speaker 1: the things that becomes philosophically a bit sticky is when

2994
02:59:48,840 --> 02:59:57,800
Speaker 1: you end up talking about the importance of independent management

2995
02:59:57,959 --> 03:00:01,000
Speaker 1: of one's own health and just Asian making not coming

2996
03:00:01,040 --> 03:00:05,480
Speaker 1: from above. There's this difficult moment that I've had kind

2997
03:00:05,520 --> 03:00:10,959
Speaker 1: of having to cop to the reality that if you're

2998
03:00:11,280 --> 03:00:15,520
Speaker 1: building mechanisms to empower people to have access to make

2999
03:00:15,600 --> 03:00:20,080
Speaker 1: decisions about managing their own health, h part of that

3000
03:00:20,400 --> 03:00:27,039
Speaker 1: entails realizing that thou will also lead to a lot

3001
03:00:27,040 --> 03:00:32,240
Speaker 1: of people making what I might think are bad decisions,

3002
03:00:32,720 --> 03:00:36,199
Speaker 1: but that the important thing is that it doesn't matter

3003
03:00:36,200 --> 03:00:39,840
Speaker 1: what I think that people should not be controlled by

3004
03:00:39,840 --> 03:00:42,840
Speaker 1: other people, and if they make bad decisions, that sucks,

3005
03:00:42,920 --> 03:00:47,320
Speaker 1: and hopefully we can help that, but not not lamenting

3006
03:00:48,320 --> 03:00:56,120
Speaker 1: the importance of or not not backtracking, not having some

3007
03:00:56,200 --> 03:01:02,480
Speaker 1: sort of retrograde. Yeah, about offering more access even if

3008
03:01:02,480 --> 03:01:08,920
Speaker 1: people misuse that access to the miss manage their own health.

3009
03:01:09,240 --> 03:01:14,400
Speaker 1: Mismanagement of health happens no matter what right, It happens constantly,

3010
03:01:14,440 --> 03:01:17,600
Speaker 1: and people will ignore things that seem like they're bigger

3011
03:01:17,640 --> 03:01:21,200
Speaker 1: problems and don't get them addressed. And so I have

3012
03:01:21,280 --> 03:01:24,320
Speaker 1: to sort of retreat into this idea that more access

3013
03:01:24,400 --> 03:01:27,600
Speaker 1: to more tools is better and that's just the way

3014
03:01:27,640 --> 03:01:30,840
Speaker 1: of it. And yeah, the problem, yeah, I mean, the

3015
03:01:30,879 --> 03:01:33,240
Speaker 1: problem with ivermectin isn't the problem. The problem is that

3016
03:01:33,240 --> 03:01:36,040
Speaker 1: that people have access to ivermectin and so they're taking

3017
03:01:36,040 --> 03:01:37,600
Speaker 1: it in a way that is harmful to them. The

3018
03:01:37,640 --> 03:01:41,440
Speaker 1: problem is that people have been have have been blinded

3019
03:01:41,440 --> 03:01:45,000
Speaker 1: by disinformation and so are making a horrible health care decision.

3020
03:01:45,480 --> 03:01:48,600
Speaker 1: The fact that they have it's possessed to veterinary medication

3021
03:01:48,800 --> 03:01:52,320
Speaker 1: is fine, right, exactly, And and it's and it's interesting

3022
03:01:52,320 --> 03:01:54,120
Speaker 1: that you say that because I have a friend of

3023
03:01:54,200 --> 03:01:58,600
Speaker 1: doctors without borders and they are starting a couple of

3024
03:01:58,879 --> 03:02:03,160
Speaker 1: pretty strong programs to try and combat misinformation, because just

3025
03:02:03,320 --> 03:02:09,360
Speaker 1: from a metric standpoint, they look for sort of like,

3026
03:02:09,400 --> 03:02:12,080
Speaker 1: what's killing the greatest number of people at the greatest

3027
03:02:12,160 --> 03:02:15,039
Speaker 1: rate in the worst way, And currently the thing that's

3028
03:02:15,080 --> 03:02:17,240
Speaker 1: killing the most people in the worst way at the

3029
03:02:17,240 --> 03:02:22,560
Speaker 1: greatest rate is misinformation, And so yeah, that's that's really

3030
03:02:22,600 --> 03:02:26,000
Speaker 1: the great danger. And one of the things I found

3031
03:02:26,000 --> 03:02:28,440
Speaker 1: really interesting about kind of what you all have been

3032
03:02:28,480 --> 03:02:30,920
Speaker 1: doing because obviously the question of how to fight the

3033
03:02:30,959 --> 03:02:33,960
Speaker 1: misinformation in the medical sphere is a much larger conversation

3034
03:02:34,000 --> 03:02:37,440
Speaker 1: without simple answers. When it comes to a question like, oh, hey,

3035
03:02:37,480 --> 03:02:40,160
Speaker 1: this pharmaceutical company jacked up the price by what seven

3036
03:02:41,240 --> 03:02:43,960
Speaker 1: for this necessary medication for people a lot of people

3037
03:02:44,000 --> 03:02:47,680
Speaker 1: who have HIV UM. What are we The solution to

3038
03:02:47,680 --> 03:02:49,240
Speaker 1: that is simple, you find a way for them to

3039
03:02:49,240 --> 03:02:51,680
Speaker 1: get it without paying hundreds and hundreds of dollars per

3040
03:02:51,720 --> 03:02:55,200
Speaker 1: dose um. The question some of the work you all

3041
03:02:55,240 --> 03:03:00,320
Speaker 1: have done is with very uh mass needed ducks like

3042
03:03:00,400 --> 03:03:03,760
Speaker 1: the methopres don't like the epipencil um where there's large

3043
03:03:03,840 --> 03:03:05,280
Speaker 1: numbers of people who need it, But a lot of

3044
03:03:05,320 --> 03:03:06,520
Speaker 1: what I think one of the things I think is

3045
03:03:06,560 --> 03:03:09,360
Speaker 1: really cool, is y'all are also working on hacking medications

3046
03:03:09,400 --> 03:03:13,000
Speaker 1: that are very niche like, very very few people have

3047
03:03:13,160 --> 03:03:18,000
Speaker 1: this particular disease, and so the medication is costs as

3048
03:03:18,040 --> 03:03:20,640
Speaker 1: much as the fully loaded Toyota tacoma, you know, in

3049
03:03:20,760 --> 03:03:24,520
Speaker 1: order to sometimes far worse than that. Because of this

3050
03:03:24,920 --> 03:03:27,760
Speaker 1: Orphan Drug Act that got past in the US and

3051
03:03:27,920 --> 03:03:32,280
Speaker 1: equivalence that exists in other places. You have all of

3052
03:03:32,320 --> 03:03:39,080
Speaker 1: these allowances that are granted to people who invent I

3053
03:03:39,160 --> 03:03:44,359
Speaker 1: put in air quotes because really they just purchase the

3054
03:03:44,480 --> 03:03:52,039
Speaker 1: rights to it. Uh, these these orphan drugs where when

3055
03:03:52,040 --> 03:03:56,800
Speaker 1: you talk about controls, it's kind of the most tragic

3056
03:03:58,080 --> 03:04:02,080
Speaker 1: incidents of that in entirely because what's happening is you've

3057
03:04:02,120 --> 03:04:05,280
Speaker 1: got somebody who has a very rare disease, and in

3058
03:04:05,360 --> 03:04:10,520
Speaker 1: many cases you have something that's the difference between somebody

3059
03:04:10,560 --> 03:04:14,640
Speaker 1: who just cannot function and they're dealing with their life

3060
03:04:15,360 --> 03:04:18,240
Speaker 1: kind of moment to moment there they're mostly cared for,

3061
03:04:19,280 --> 03:04:23,160
Speaker 1: and if they have access to a particular medication, then

3062
03:04:23,160 --> 03:04:26,280
Speaker 1: they can go through life in a fairly normal sort

3063
03:04:26,280 --> 03:04:29,440
Speaker 1: of way where they don't need to be an assisted living,

3064
03:04:29,480 --> 03:04:33,160
Speaker 1: where that they can do sort of basic things for themselves,

3065
03:04:34,080 --> 03:04:39,720
Speaker 1: and that that seems so much more predatory. I mean,

3066
03:04:39,760 --> 03:04:42,119
Speaker 1: it's important, of course, you know, to look at things

3067
03:04:42,560 --> 03:04:44,640
Speaker 1: with that macro lens as well and say what can

3068
03:04:44,800 --> 03:04:46,200
Speaker 1: what can do a lot of good for a lot

3069
03:04:46,200 --> 03:04:50,960
Speaker 1: of people. But then the sort of micro ethical lens

3070
03:04:51,400 --> 03:04:53,240
Speaker 1: needs to come out from time to time and say,

3071
03:04:53,280 --> 03:04:56,480
Speaker 1: all right, well, here's something that only affects a few

3072
03:04:56,520 --> 03:05:00,240
Speaker 1: hundred thousand people across the world. But the these are

3073
03:05:00,280 --> 03:05:04,279
Speaker 1: people who could just go through life normally if only

3074
03:05:05,000 --> 03:05:08,760
Speaker 1: they had access to a little bit of medicine. And

3075
03:05:08,800 --> 03:05:13,359
Speaker 1: the only reason they don't is because of misplaced average

3076
03:05:13,520 --> 03:05:19,080
Speaker 1: or all averice is misplaced because yeah, and you're you're

3077
03:05:19,120 --> 03:05:22,680
Speaker 1: you're providing individuals or a way for people to to

3078
03:05:22,840 --> 03:05:25,600
Speaker 1: help individuals who have this problem and who can't couldn't

3079
03:05:25,600 --> 03:05:27,680
Speaker 1: possibly afford this because they don't have health care or

3080
03:05:27,720 --> 03:05:33,120
Speaker 1: something a way to deal with these illnesses. Um and oftentimes,

3081
03:05:33,160 --> 03:05:37,720
Speaker 1: like even even people who are ensured get the medication

3082
03:05:37,760 --> 03:05:40,960
Speaker 1: that they need or don't get an affordable rate because

3083
03:05:41,640 --> 03:05:45,000
Speaker 1: it's not seen as critical. Yeah, it's like, oh, well

3084
03:05:45,040 --> 03:05:47,520
Speaker 1: there's a there's a solution that's not as good, but

3085
03:05:47,560 --> 03:05:49,640
Speaker 1: it's much less expensive. So that's the only thing we're

3086
03:05:49,680 --> 03:05:53,040
Speaker 1: going to cover. And so yeah, and you're saying, well,

3087
03:05:53,080 --> 03:05:55,840
Speaker 1: it should be your decision whether or not this is

3088
03:05:56,040 --> 03:05:59,039
Speaker 1: something you want to treat this way, and we're this

3089
03:05:59,160 --> 03:06:02,600
Speaker 1: is a way if you, you know, have access, This

3090
03:06:02,680 --> 03:06:04,480
Speaker 1: is a way for you to kind of, as you've

3091
03:06:04,480 --> 03:06:08,600
Speaker 1: been saying, like, take your health care and your ability

3092
03:06:08,640 --> 03:06:11,320
Speaker 1: to get medication into your own hands and produce the

3093
03:06:11,360 --> 03:06:14,760
Speaker 1: things that you need without needing to beg an insurance

3094
03:06:14,800 --> 03:06:19,199
Speaker 1: company or go fund me eight dollars or whatever. Yeah.

3095
03:06:19,400 --> 03:06:22,080
Speaker 1: Does go fund me break my heart so much? Yeah,

3096
03:06:22,200 --> 03:06:25,240
Speaker 1: it's especially when people say, oh, look, how great somebody

3097
03:06:25,320 --> 03:06:28,320
Speaker 1: got the money that they needed, and I say, look,

3098
03:06:28,480 --> 03:06:32,640
Speaker 1: I am happy that people get healthcare, but this should

3099
03:06:32,640 --> 03:06:36,600
Speaker 1: be entirely unnecessary. And the fact that this comes up

3100
03:06:36,680 --> 03:06:40,240
Speaker 1: is criminal. Yeah, we can. We can as a species

3101
03:06:40,280 --> 03:06:43,800
Speaker 1: produce this ship for less than the cost of like

3102
03:06:43,840 --> 03:06:46,960
Speaker 1: a lamp, you know, Like, why why don't why isn't

3103
03:06:47,000 --> 03:06:51,480
Speaker 1: this available? Um? Now, I And that's what I think

3104
03:06:51,560 --> 03:06:53,840
Speaker 1: is kind of so powerful about what y'all are doing.

3105
03:06:53,959 --> 03:06:58,320
Speaker 1: And is that so so often we kind of get

3106
03:06:58,360 --> 03:07:00,960
Speaker 1: stuck in this like the horror of how bad health

3107
03:07:00,959 --> 03:07:03,360
Speaker 1: care is, of how fund up the pharmaceutical industry is

3108
03:07:03,680 --> 03:07:05,480
Speaker 1: and then we get our relief from that in these

3109
03:07:05,480 --> 03:07:08,560
Speaker 1: stories of people like crowdfunding so they can get their medication,

3110
03:07:09,040 --> 03:07:11,879
Speaker 1: and what you're saying is, well, what's actually much more

3111
03:07:11,920 --> 03:07:15,000
Speaker 1: inspiring than that is people just making finding ways to

3112
03:07:15,040 --> 03:07:17,039
Speaker 1: make what they need. UM Again, the kind of the

3113
03:07:17,040 --> 03:07:20,480
Speaker 1: most popular popular is the wrong word. The most press

3114
03:07:20,560 --> 03:07:22,920
Speaker 1: y'all have received, I think is for the epipencil, which

3115
03:07:22,959 --> 03:07:26,280
Speaker 1: is an EpiPen is a device that you take that

3116
03:07:26,440 --> 03:07:29,160
Speaker 1: is used when people are going into anaphylactic shock, which

3117
03:07:29,160 --> 03:07:31,120
Speaker 1: is when they have an allergic reaction that will kill

3118
03:07:31,160 --> 03:07:35,800
Speaker 1: them if untreated. Generally, UM and it you injected into

3119
03:07:35,879 --> 03:07:39,280
Speaker 1: your muscles or generally, like an EpiPen does the injecting,

3120
03:07:39,320 --> 03:07:41,880
Speaker 1: you just kind of put it in place. UM and

3121
03:07:41,959 --> 03:07:44,760
Speaker 1: it it is a life saving medication when people need it.

3122
03:07:44,760 --> 03:07:47,240
Speaker 1: It's the choice between that and death. UM and they

3123
03:07:47,240 --> 03:07:50,120
Speaker 1: are very expensive. There is a company that owns the

3124
03:07:50,120 --> 03:07:53,160
Speaker 1: patent because of how the EpiPen actually does the injecting.

3125
03:07:53,160 --> 03:07:56,680
Speaker 1: The actual medicine is very cheap and very easy to make,

3126
03:07:56,760 --> 03:07:59,560
Speaker 1: but it's unbelievably expensive and people die as a result

3127
03:07:59,600 --> 03:08:03,840
Speaker 1: of lack lack of access. UM And you've provided a

3128
03:08:03,840 --> 03:08:05,880
Speaker 1: way using both kinds of this thing called a bio

3129
03:08:06,000 --> 03:08:09,000
Speaker 1: lab that people You've developed plans that people can build

3130
03:08:09,000 --> 03:08:11,640
Speaker 1: it for themselves in order to make this, and also

3131
03:08:11,720 --> 03:08:15,599
Speaker 1: using a three D printer, you can make UM an epipencil,

3132
03:08:15,680 --> 03:08:18,280
Speaker 1: which is a little less kind of a more analog version.

3133
03:08:18,320 --> 03:08:20,680
Speaker 1: I think, I guess you'd say, uh no, it's it's

3134
03:08:20,800 --> 03:08:23,520
Speaker 1: it's equivalent. It's equivalent. It works the same way. The

3135
03:08:23,600 --> 03:08:28,119
Speaker 1: things that are different about it that UM are critical.

3136
03:08:28,200 --> 03:08:30,080
Speaker 1: The first one that you mentioned, of course, is that

3137
03:08:30,160 --> 03:08:33,400
Speaker 1: you can you can build it for all over thirty

3138
03:08:33,400 --> 03:08:37,760
Speaker 1: dollars US, and you can reload it for about three dollars,

3139
03:08:38,959 --> 03:08:45,480
Speaker 1: unlike the EpiPen which is I think it's about fifty

3140
03:08:45,520 --> 03:08:48,720
Speaker 1: dollars for yeah, UM, and that might be for a pair,

3141
03:08:48,800 --> 03:08:55,680
Speaker 1: but even so to UM. But the other two critical

3142
03:08:55,760 --> 03:09:04,320
Speaker 1: differences are that EpiPens are single you, so you can't

3143
03:09:04,360 --> 03:09:08,480
Speaker 1: test whether it's faulty or not until you use it,

3144
03:09:09,920 --> 03:09:13,320
Speaker 1: and there have been a lot of failures. In fact,

3145
03:09:13,360 --> 03:09:16,640
Speaker 1: there was a big EpiPen recall a bunch of years ago,

3146
03:09:17,240 --> 03:09:21,200
Speaker 1: and there were just these tragic, tragic stories. Some guy

3147
03:09:21,360 --> 03:09:25,400
Speaker 1: had to watch his little kid die. He had had

3148
03:09:25,400 --> 03:09:28,400
Speaker 1: a pair of EpiPens. The kid went into shock. He

3149
03:09:28,720 --> 03:09:30,960
Speaker 1: used it, the thing failed. He brought the other one.

3150
03:09:31,040 --> 03:09:33,040
Speaker 1: The other one failed, and they're in the air and

3151
03:09:33,120 --> 03:09:35,520
Speaker 1: you can't land in fifteen minutes and the little kid died,

3152
03:09:35,600 --> 03:09:38,160
Speaker 1: which just and I'm sure there are dozens of dozens

3153
03:09:38,200 --> 03:09:39,840
Speaker 1: of stories like that that just happens to be one

3154
03:09:39,840 --> 03:09:43,560
Speaker 1: of the ones I know. So one of the things

3155
03:09:43,640 --> 03:09:46,360
Speaker 1: that's great about the epipencils because you're putting it together

3156
03:09:46,400 --> 03:09:50,560
Speaker 1: yourself and it only takes four parts, you can test it.

3157
03:09:50,640 --> 03:09:53,320
Speaker 1: You can make sure that it works as many times

3158
03:09:53,360 --> 03:09:55,560
Speaker 1: as you need to. You can dry running with saline

3159
03:09:55,560 --> 03:09:58,000
Speaker 1: and just double check that it does what it's supposed

3160
03:09:58,040 --> 03:10:06,160
Speaker 1: to UM, and so it's safer. So the fact that

3161
03:10:06,200 --> 03:10:10,160
Speaker 1: it's you can control yourself, you can reload it, and

3162
03:10:10,240 --> 03:10:14,800
Speaker 1: you can test it. All these things fix a lot

3163
03:10:14,840 --> 03:10:19,600
Speaker 1: of these immediate problems that come with and it still

3164
03:10:19,680 --> 03:10:22,920
Speaker 1: has the benefit that everybody wants from the EpiPen which

3165
03:10:23,000 --> 03:10:28,400
Speaker 1: is that it doesn't require um, you know, measurement or

3166
03:10:30,000 --> 03:10:34,120
Speaker 1: like knowing how deep to press the needle before you

3167
03:10:34,160 --> 03:10:36,920
Speaker 1: depress the plunger. All that happens automatically, and it happens

3168
03:10:37,000 --> 03:10:40,280
Speaker 1: very quickly. UM and yeah, we as you say, we've

3169
03:10:40,280 --> 03:10:43,680
Speaker 1: got a lot of pressed for that because essentially a

3170
03:10:43,720 --> 03:10:47,000
Speaker 1: good timing we've released at the same time that Heather

3171
03:10:47,120 --> 03:10:50,520
Speaker 1: Brush was lying to Congress about why they hit raised

3172
03:10:50,560 --> 03:10:54,960
Speaker 1: the price on the EpiPens and then so it was

3173
03:10:55,000 --> 03:10:59,520
Speaker 1: in the public eye. And and that's that's a huge

3174
03:10:59,600 --> 03:11:02,720
Speaker 1: one being able to produce that because that is I mean,

3175
03:11:02,720 --> 03:11:06,480
Speaker 1: there's a tremendous number of people who rely on UH

3176
03:11:06,600 --> 03:11:10,360
Speaker 1: EpiPens um and and I think the potential of that

3177
03:11:10,400 --> 03:11:15,480
Speaker 1: project is staggering. UM And there's some there's some you know,

3178
03:11:15,520 --> 03:11:17,720
Speaker 1: we when we talk about kind of the different people

3179
03:11:17,720 --> 03:11:19,959
Speaker 1: who are who are working on similar problems to you,

3180
03:11:19,959 --> 03:11:21,720
Speaker 1: there's also a group of people who are working on

3181
03:11:22,360 --> 03:11:26,080
Speaker 1: um cracking insulin, being able to produce insulin um. And yeah,

3182
03:11:26,120 --> 03:11:29,080
Speaker 1: the Open Insulin Project is an amazing group of people,

3183
03:11:29,320 --> 03:11:35,879
Speaker 1: incredibly important. They're yeah, they're working on mm hmm, probably

3184
03:11:35,959 --> 03:11:39,480
Speaker 1: the largest scale public health crisis. I mean, in terms

3185
03:11:39,520 --> 03:11:42,440
Speaker 1: of queries that we get, I think we get people

3186
03:11:42,480 --> 03:11:46,959
Speaker 1: asking about insulin more than anything else. And I always say, oh, yeah,

3187
03:11:47,000 --> 03:11:49,440
Speaker 1: they're very very bright people who already working around this.

3188
03:11:49,560 --> 03:11:52,280
Speaker 1: Go talk to the Open Insulin Um and and they're

3189
03:11:52,320 --> 03:11:55,480
Speaker 1: just amazing. I want to move on because I want

3190
03:11:55,520 --> 03:11:59,439
Speaker 1: to talk about kind of the more um philosophical dimensions

3191
03:11:59,480 --> 03:12:01,120
Speaker 1: of some of this. But before we get into that,

3192
03:12:01,200 --> 03:12:03,959
Speaker 1: i'd like to so, like, you know, one of the

3193
03:12:03,959 --> 03:12:05,480
Speaker 1: things you and I've been talking about a little bit

3194
03:12:05,720 --> 03:12:09,240
Speaker 1: behind the scenes is I am not a technically savvy person,

3195
03:12:09,280 --> 03:12:11,840
Speaker 1: but I'm I want to try and I'd like to

3196
03:12:11,879 --> 03:12:14,320
Speaker 1: be able to like produce an epipencil. I want to

3197
03:12:14,360 --> 03:12:17,280
Speaker 1: like understand this it kind of and and potentially be

3198
03:12:17,320 --> 03:12:21,160
Speaker 1: able to contribute UM in a more direct sense, in

3199
03:12:21,200 --> 03:12:25,080
Speaker 1: part because I'm curious, like how how doable actually is this? For?

3200
03:12:25,360 --> 03:12:27,560
Speaker 1: I consider myself a pretty normal person when it comes

3201
03:12:27,560 --> 03:12:30,879
Speaker 1: to like technical understanding, right, Like, I'm reasonably handy, but

3202
03:12:30,959 --> 03:12:33,760
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not a chemist, I'm not a I'm

3203
03:12:33,800 --> 03:12:36,520
Speaker 1: not a I haven't really I have no I have

3204
03:12:36,560 --> 03:12:39,360
Speaker 1: no prior experience three D printing or anything like that.

3205
03:12:39,840 --> 03:12:43,680
Speaker 1: What is what is required in terms of financial investment

3206
03:12:43,720 --> 03:12:45,920
Speaker 1: and what is kind of your general estimate in terms

3207
03:12:45,920 --> 03:12:49,280
Speaker 1: of time to get up to, you know, a kind

3208
03:12:49,280 --> 03:12:53,200
Speaker 1: of the level where you can start learning how to

3209
03:12:53,200 --> 03:12:56,520
Speaker 1: do some of this stuff. I think the barrier to

3210
03:12:56,680 --> 03:13:00,280
Speaker 1: entry is pretty low, depending on how you want to start.

3211
03:13:02,040 --> 03:13:05,480
Speaker 1: As I said, there are different avenues to doing it.

3212
03:13:06,080 --> 03:13:08,640
Speaker 1: You can, of course, one of the one of the

3213
03:13:08,720 --> 03:13:11,720
Speaker 1: greatest hacks. If if anybody listening this doesn't pick up

3214
03:13:11,720 --> 03:13:14,800
Speaker 1: anything else, here's the best hack in terms of getting

3215
03:13:14,879 --> 03:13:18,480
Speaker 1: access to medication. You have a medication you don't have

3216
03:13:18,560 --> 03:13:22,119
Speaker 1: access to for whatever reason, Assuming it comes in a

3217
03:13:22,120 --> 03:13:26,400
Speaker 1: capsule form, you can nearly go to a chemical supplier,

3218
03:13:26,920 --> 03:13:31,240
Speaker 1: purchase the active pharmaceutical ingredient, wait out, put it into

3219
03:13:31,240 --> 03:13:34,560
Speaker 1: a capsule, and you've made your medication. That's a very

3220
03:13:34,600 --> 03:13:37,600
Speaker 1: simple thing, you know, that takes nothing more than being

3221
03:13:37,600 --> 03:13:39,640
Speaker 1: able to read a scale and scooping powder into a

3222
03:13:39,680 --> 03:13:44,880
Speaker 1: little you know, capsules. The next step up, there are

3223
03:13:45,879 --> 03:13:47,600
Speaker 1: things that you can do. They're little more involved. If

3224
03:13:47,600 --> 03:13:49,520
Speaker 1: you want to build an epy pencil, again, this is

3225
03:13:50,959 --> 03:13:53,640
Speaker 1: three or four parts, depending on how you count. You

3226
03:13:53,760 --> 03:13:58,560
Speaker 1: take a needle from one syringe needle set on, you

3227
03:13:58,600 --> 03:14:01,000
Speaker 1: put it onto a different engineel set, and then you

3228
03:14:01,040 --> 03:14:04,440
Speaker 1: put it into this auto injector this design for neil

3229
03:14:04,480 --> 03:14:08,560
Speaker 1: phobic diabetics. You load it with the up and ron

3230
03:14:09,240 --> 03:14:14,000
Speaker 1: and you close it up and you're done. Then, if

3231
03:14:14,000 --> 03:14:16,360
Speaker 1: you want to step into this a little bit further,

3232
03:14:16,600 --> 03:14:20,280
Speaker 1: if something is so barriered for whatever reason that you

3233
03:14:20,360 --> 03:14:25,080
Speaker 1: can't get the actual ingredient, then you might start messing

3234
03:14:25,120 --> 03:14:28,760
Speaker 1: around with our micro lab. The micro lab, I would say,

3235
03:14:28,879 --> 03:14:33,520
Speaker 1: probably takes around a hundred dollars US to build. Um it,

3236
03:14:34,959 --> 03:14:39,080
Speaker 1: but it's not super technical. Our latest version doesn't require

3237
03:14:39,120 --> 03:14:43,039
Speaker 1: any soldering. Everything snaps together, which is really nice. You

3238
03:14:43,040 --> 03:14:46,880
Speaker 1: can plug everything in. All the wires are just screw terminals,

3239
03:14:46,879 --> 03:14:51,400
Speaker 1: which is really convenient. UM. And it takes some time,

3240
03:14:52,120 --> 03:14:57,199
Speaker 1: and you do have to load some code, but we're

3241
03:14:57,240 --> 03:15:02,560
Speaker 1: looking to release a new set of documentation in the

3242
03:15:02,640 --> 03:15:06,800
Speaker 1: summer that will be very very stripped down of here's

3243
03:15:06,800 --> 03:15:09,560
Speaker 1: your bill of materials. You can order all of this stuff.

3244
03:15:10,640 --> 03:15:14,320
Speaker 1: Here's how you can put the disk image onto the

3245
03:15:14,480 --> 03:15:17,000
Speaker 1: SD card that you put in, and you should start

3246
03:15:17,040 --> 03:15:23,240
Speaker 1: it and it will wake up and work independently. UM.

3247
03:15:23,240 --> 03:15:27,439
Speaker 1: We had a video of our head hardware guy actually

3248
03:15:27,520 --> 03:15:32,160
Speaker 1: building the micro lab from just parts that we're sitting

3249
03:15:32,320 --> 03:15:34,720
Speaker 1: on lay out on a table, and I think all

3250
03:15:34,720 --> 03:15:38,240
Speaker 1: told it took him about forty five minutes. Will be

3251
03:15:38,240 --> 03:15:41,560
Speaker 1: a little bit longer, but again, like granted, this guy's

3252
03:15:41,560 --> 03:15:45,560
Speaker 1: a hardware specialist and he you know, designed it. So

3253
03:15:46,000 --> 03:15:48,800
Speaker 1: for somebody who's not done before, it might take an afternoon,

3254
03:15:49,160 --> 03:15:53,400
Speaker 1: but it's not. It's not a prohibitively long or involved

3255
03:15:53,440 --> 03:15:56,640
Speaker 1: project that you know, would take you weeks to put together,

3256
03:15:56,879 --> 03:16:04,360
Speaker 1: or any specialized under standing of you know, biomedical engineering

3257
03:16:04,440 --> 03:16:08,200
Speaker 1: or anything like that. Now, UM, I kind of want

3258
03:16:08,200 --> 03:16:09,600
Speaker 1: to move at this point because I think that gives

3259
03:16:09,600 --> 03:16:12,560
Speaker 1: people an idea of what's actually necessary and they can

3260
03:16:12,600 --> 03:16:14,920
Speaker 1: go to y'all's website, UM or look up you have

3261
03:16:15,160 --> 03:16:17,680
Speaker 1: plans on a get hub if they want to kind

3262
03:16:17,680 --> 03:16:20,920
Speaker 1: of look at what's what's involved and it's um some

3263
03:16:21,040 --> 03:16:23,000
Speaker 1: of it seems a little daunting to me, like look

3264
03:16:23,080 --> 03:16:25,240
Speaker 1: looking at the construction of the bio lab, But I'm

3265
03:16:25,600 --> 03:16:27,440
Speaker 1: that that's going to be a project that I'll be

3266
03:16:27,480 --> 03:16:29,320
Speaker 1: engaging in over the next couple of weeks, so I'll

3267
03:16:29,400 --> 03:16:32,760
Speaker 1: keep people updated on how I do there. UM. I

3268
03:16:32,760 --> 03:16:36,000
Speaker 1: want to move on to talk Michael about what you

3269
03:16:36,080 --> 03:16:42,160
Speaker 1: see as kind of them I don't know the the

3270
03:16:42,160 --> 03:16:45,280
Speaker 1: the potential from kind of a revolutionary perspective, from a

3271
03:16:45,320 --> 03:16:49,760
Speaker 1: perspective of actually building dual power of this project. And

3272
03:16:49,760 --> 03:16:51,920
Speaker 1: obviously you are and I think what would would be

3273
03:16:51,959 --> 03:16:54,440
Speaker 1: called the early stages of this idea of kind of

3274
03:16:54,440 --> 03:17:01,359
Speaker 1: democratizing and decentralizing the production of life saving medication. UM,

3275
03:17:01,360 --> 03:17:03,119
Speaker 1: although I guess you could argue in some ways it's

3276
03:17:03,160 --> 03:17:05,840
Speaker 1: kind of a return to more traditional attitudes about health

3277
03:17:05,840 --> 03:17:09,039
Speaker 1: care in a lot of ways. Yeah, there's a cyclic

3278
03:17:09,120 --> 03:17:13,320
Speaker 1: nature there, and in the sort of zend mind, beginner's mind,

3279
03:17:13,360 --> 03:17:16,560
Speaker 1: we'd like to think that the revolution is always in

3280
03:17:16,600 --> 03:17:21,440
Speaker 1: its beginning stages, right. UM. That to say, over the

3281
03:17:21,480 --> 03:17:28,360
Speaker 1: past decade, roughly looking at trying to find ways to

3282
03:17:28,400 --> 03:17:35,320
Speaker 1: give people more independent access that doesn't require infrastructure to

3283
03:17:35,480 --> 03:17:45,480
Speaker 1: medicines and medical technologies. The the hope really is to

3284
03:17:46,040 --> 03:17:51,640
Speaker 1: create a certain amount of cultural shift. I remember at

3285
03:17:51,680 --> 03:17:56,320
Speaker 1: one point a friend of mine, who as a business

3286
03:17:56,320 --> 03:17:59,640
Speaker 1: school graduate, asked me a very sort of like business

3287
03:17:59,680 --> 03:18:04,320
Speaker 1: school type question where he said, how would you measure

3288
03:18:04,400 --> 03:18:09,560
Speaker 1: success of your project? Um? And I said, well, we

3289
03:18:09,680 --> 03:18:12,680
Speaker 1: ceased to exist as an organization, and he kind of

3290
03:18:12,720 --> 03:18:16,000
Speaker 1: had this moment of like, what do you mean. We

3291
03:18:16,000 --> 03:18:20,039
Speaker 1: shouldn't be pushing this right. The ideas that eventually the

3292
03:18:20,160 --> 03:18:26,160
Speaker 1: concept of managing your own health is sufficiently normalized that

3293
03:18:26,280 --> 03:18:30,240
Speaker 1: it's not something that has to be explained between people.

3294
03:18:30,320 --> 03:18:35,440
Speaker 1: But somebody says, oh, yeah, I just I just did

3295
03:18:35,520 --> 03:18:40,040
Speaker 1: that up in my micro lab um. In the same

3296
03:18:40,080 --> 03:18:43,760
Speaker 1: way that when you look at the shift that happened

3297
03:18:43,760 --> 03:18:50,520
Speaker 1: between oh, you know, the mid eighties in the mid nineties,

3298
03:18:51,280 --> 03:18:57,160
Speaker 1: where computers were this strange, scary thing that was, you know,

3299
03:18:57,200 --> 03:19:01,240
Speaker 1: we're only accessible or usable by people who were very

3300
03:19:01,240 --> 03:19:04,720
Speaker 1: specialized something that you know, everybody knew about and everybody

3301
03:19:04,800 --> 03:19:07,080
Speaker 1: kind of had and everybody sort of used. And the

3302
03:19:07,120 --> 03:19:11,000
Speaker 1: same sort of thing that happened between the period of

3303
03:19:11,160 --> 03:19:15,800
Speaker 1: time I don't know, maybe ten twelve years ago and

3304
03:19:16,160 --> 03:19:21,280
Speaker 1: now with with three D printing, where like stereo lithography

3305
03:19:21,280 --> 03:19:24,240
Speaker 1: and rapid prototyping was again the specialized thing that a

3306
03:19:24,240 --> 03:19:27,320
Speaker 1: bunch of people who were essentially at the machine tool

3307
03:19:27,360 --> 03:19:32,000
Speaker 1: industry had started to spearhead, and now you say three printing,

3308
03:19:32,000 --> 03:19:34,800
Speaker 1: everybody knows what it means. In the same sort of way,

3309
03:19:37,200 --> 03:19:39,640
Speaker 1: I'd very much like to see a cultural shift where

3310
03:19:41,640 --> 03:19:49,359
Speaker 1: when somebody is unwell, that when discussions between people happened,

3311
03:19:49,400 --> 03:19:51,920
Speaker 1: that instead of the have you had that looked at,

3312
03:19:52,800 --> 03:19:59,760
Speaker 1: or you might instead here from somebody saying, well have

3313
03:20:00,040 --> 03:20:03,800
Speaker 1: you read up on that? You know, to see people

3314
03:20:04,600 --> 03:20:10,080
Speaker 1: actually engaged in their own health and not going through

3315
03:20:10,080 --> 03:20:14,160
Speaker 1: this very typical process of outsourcing responsibility. Now, it's not

3316
03:20:14,200 --> 03:20:17,640
Speaker 1: to say that like experts aren't good people with whom

3317
03:20:17,640 --> 03:20:20,920
Speaker 1: to consult, right, Yeah, we're not talking about replacing the

3318
03:20:21,000 --> 03:20:25,120
Speaker 1: idea of medical professionals who can help you understand what

3319
03:20:25,200 --> 03:20:28,480
Speaker 1: your health and diagnose and stuff like. Yeah, but there

3320
03:20:28,560 --> 03:20:34,119
Speaker 1: is again this drastic difference between going to a doctor

3321
03:20:34,480 --> 03:20:37,240
Speaker 1: and essentially just like throwing the problem on their desk

3322
03:20:37,280 --> 03:20:41,160
Speaker 1: and saying fixed it, call me when it's over, versus

3323
03:20:41,480 --> 03:20:44,280
Speaker 1: going to a doctor and saying, hey, I'd like to

3324
03:20:44,320 --> 03:20:48,879
Speaker 1: talk about this. I'd like to know more about what's

3325
03:20:48,920 --> 03:20:54,040
Speaker 1: wrong here, and i'd like to discuss what the options

3326
03:20:54,120 --> 03:21:01,440
Speaker 1: are and what seems best. Um that would be great

3327
03:21:01,440 --> 03:21:05,240
Speaker 1: on a lot of levels. And and then these questions

3328
03:21:05,920 --> 03:21:11,240
Speaker 1: of access to medication then become even more relevant because

3329
03:21:12,080 --> 03:21:15,959
Speaker 1: when you're talking with a doctor and the doctor says, okay,

3330
03:21:16,000 --> 03:21:19,240
Speaker 1: well we could try this therapy, but your insurance won't

3331
03:21:19,280 --> 03:21:22,200
Speaker 1: pay for it in three hundred thousand dollars, you can say,

3332
03:21:22,280 --> 03:21:24,279
Speaker 1: all right, well let's just do a little thought experiment

3333
03:21:24,320 --> 03:21:26,240
Speaker 1: and if that fell from a truck, what would I

3334
03:21:26,280 --> 03:21:28,560
Speaker 1: do with it? And then maybe you can go home

3335
03:21:28,600 --> 03:21:31,120
Speaker 1: and say, you know, I'll call you and let you

3336
03:21:31,160 --> 03:21:39,240
Speaker 1: know how it goes. I that's that's really my my grant, Hope,

3337
03:21:39,280 --> 03:21:41,640
Speaker 1: And there are so many different ways that can play out.

3338
03:21:42,320 --> 03:21:45,520
Speaker 1: In fact, I'll tell you a hilarious story in regards

3339
03:21:45,560 --> 03:21:49,080
Speaker 1: to this, which was in I guess it was when

3340
03:21:49,080 --> 03:21:53,840
Speaker 1: we presented it, Hope. UM. I called Martin Shakley's cell

3341
03:21:53,840 --> 03:21:57,360
Speaker 1: phone from stage to try and ask him what he

3342
03:21:57,440 --> 03:22:01,400
Speaker 1: thought about what we were doing, given that I was

3343
03:22:01,440 --> 03:22:04,480
Speaker 1: handing his drug out for free, UM and showing people

3344
03:22:04,480 --> 03:22:07,520
Speaker 1: how to make it. And he didn't answer the phone

3345
03:22:07,520 --> 03:22:09,119
Speaker 1: when I called him then, but he called me back

3346
03:22:09,120 --> 03:22:14,879
Speaker 1: a few hours later, which was really hilarious. We actually

3347
03:22:14,959 --> 03:22:17,480
Speaker 1: chatted for a while and the guys, I mean a

3348
03:22:17,520 --> 03:22:22,879
Speaker 1: little detached from reality, but he's he's no dummy, UM.

3349
03:22:22,920 --> 03:22:25,280
Speaker 1: And when I sort of described what we were trying

3350
03:22:25,320 --> 03:22:30,040
Speaker 1: to do with the micro lab, he had some interesting

3351
03:22:30,040 --> 03:22:32,360
Speaker 1: insights and he said, yeah, you know, one way I

3352
03:22:32,360 --> 03:22:36,600
Speaker 1: can imagine that working really well is if somebody with

3353
03:22:37,280 --> 03:22:44,120
Speaker 1: a little more knowledge of pharmaceutical medicine were too maybe

3354
03:22:44,360 --> 03:22:47,879
Speaker 1: build one of these and serve a small community. I

3355
03:22:47,879 --> 03:22:49,879
Speaker 1: think that could be very efficient. And I was like,

3356
03:22:51,480 --> 03:22:57,039
Speaker 1: that's a good thought. You Chiseling bastard um. Yeah, I

3357
03:22:57,080 --> 03:22:59,440
Speaker 1: mean that there's a degree which that's that's kind of

3358
03:22:59,440 --> 03:23:02,680
Speaker 1: how I see the most realistic potential. This is not

3359
03:23:02,760 --> 03:23:05,200
Speaker 1: every individual making all of their medicine, but kind of

3360
03:23:05,240 --> 03:23:08,039
Speaker 1: like you know we had during the fires last year,

3361
03:23:08,120 --> 03:23:10,480
Speaker 1: when when our local and state governments during the heat

3362
03:23:10,480 --> 03:23:13,400
Speaker 1: wave this year like completely shut the bed. We had

3363
03:23:13,720 --> 03:23:16,680
Speaker 1: different mutual aid collectives do things like we are providing

3364
03:23:16,680 --> 03:23:18,680
Speaker 1: people with like oh, it's a blizzard, We're providing people

3365
03:23:18,680 --> 03:23:22,040
Speaker 1: with firewood. We are providing people with cooling stations because

3366
03:23:22,040 --> 03:23:23,720
Speaker 1: of the heat. You know, we are providing people with

3367
03:23:23,760 --> 03:23:25,680
Speaker 1: they've just fled their houses. We have kits that have

3368
03:23:26,160 --> 03:23:29,440
Speaker 1: food and basic necessities so they can get through mutual

3369
03:23:29,440 --> 03:23:31,240
Speaker 1: aid collectives that are like, well, we are making we

3370
03:23:31,320 --> 03:23:33,440
Speaker 1: specialize and we can produce this and this and this

3371
03:23:33,720 --> 03:23:35,879
Speaker 1: medication like these three and we have and here's the

3372
03:23:35,920 --> 03:23:38,320
Speaker 1: information you can find online about our process. You know

3373
03:23:38,360 --> 03:23:40,040
Speaker 1: that we know what we're doing, and if you need

3374
03:23:40,080 --> 03:23:41,960
Speaker 1: these things, you let us know and we we get

3375
03:23:42,000 --> 03:23:44,080
Speaker 1: them to you. And here's different ways in which people

3376
03:23:44,120 --> 03:23:46,000
Speaker 1: can volunteer if you want to help engage in this

3377
03:23:46,120 --> 03:23:49,080
Speaker 1: mutual aid process, even if you're not someone who's going

3378
03:23:49,120 --> 03:23:51,760
Speaker 1: to be doing a lot of the technical stuff, but

3379
03:23:51,840 --> 03:23:53,280
Speaker 1: we need people to go pick up parts, So we

3380
03:23:53,280 --> 03:23:55,120
Speaker 1: need people to do this, and you can help us here.

3381
03:23:55,720 --> 03:23:58,959
Speaker 1: You know, I see a lot of potential. I think, yeah, yeah,

3382
03:23:59,000 --> 03:24:00,680
Speaker 1: And I think in a similar way, right, a lot

3383
03:24:00,680 --> 03:24:03,320
Speaker 1: of that sort of thing is already happening in other

3384
03:24:03,440 --> 03:24:06,279
Speaker 1: realms right where. It's the sort of thing where you

3385
03:24:06,400 --> 03:24:09,640
Speaker 1: might be building something, or you you see some project

3386
03:24:09,680 --> 03:24:12,160
Speaker 1: on GitHub or whatever, and some there are these STL

3387
03:24:12,240 --> 03:24:14,680
Speaker 1: files and you go, oh, gosh, well I don't know

3388
03:24:14,800 --> 03:24:16,680
Speaker 1: how to do that, but oh right, x y Z

3389
03:24:16,800 --> 03:24:19,520
Speaker 1: down the street as a three D printer. I'll go

3390
03:24:19,600 --> 03:24:22,920
Speaker 1: ask her. She's really good at making these things. And

3391
03:24:22,959 --> 03:24:24,800
Speaker 1: you say, hey, look, I have this thing. Would this

3392
03:24:24,879 --> 03:24:28,160
Speaker 1: be difficult to print? And with their experience, they kind

3393
03:24:28,160 --> 03:24:30,840
Speaker 1: of look at me like, I know that that shouldn't

3394
03:24:30,840 --> 03:24:33,480
Speaker 1: be too hard. Um, you know, I have some time

3395
03:24:33,520 --> 03:24:35,680
Speaker 1: this weekend, maybe I can make that for you. And

3396
03:24:35,720 --> 03:24:38,720
Speaker 1: in the same way, you say, hey, it looks like

3397
03:24:38,879 --> 03:24:42,520
Speaker 1: I seem to have this rare infection from whatever whatever,

3398
03:24:42,720 --> 03:24:46,560
Speaker 1: or I have this odd condition. Um, I wanted to

3399
03:24:46,600 --> 03:24:50,160
Speaker 1: try this medication because it might be really helpful, but

3400
03:24:50,400 --> 03:24:52,959
Speaker 1: it's not legal in this country. Do you think you

3401
03:24:52,959 --> 03:24:55,680
Speaker 1: can put this together again? You know, you call somebody

3402
03:24:55,720 --> 03:24:59,360
Speaker 1: and whoever's on the other lines says, oh, yeah, I

3403
03:24:59,400 --> 03:25:01,360
Speaker 1: have a micro a. I can try and put a

3404
03:25:01,400 --> 03:25:03,400
Speaker 1: program together for that and see if I can make

3405
03:25:03,400 --> 03:25:05,960
Speaker 1: it for you. That sort of thing, I think is

3406
03:25:06,080 --> 03:25:11,640
Speaker 1: a potentially really positive avenue for that sort of thing

3407
03:25:11,680 --> 03:25:17,280
Speaker 1: to proliferate and again eventually to have a cultural shift

3408
03:25:17,440 --> 03:25:24,600
Speaker 1: where the idea of medicine and medical technology not being

3409
03:25:24,879 --> 03:25:29,760
Speaker 1: something that is comes down from above from some authority,

3410
03:25:30,640 --> 03:25:36,240
Speaker 1: but instead is something that's managed by people who are

3411
03:25:36,280 --> 03:25:38,960
Speaker 1: part of your community, who you already trust. I mean,

3412
03:25:38,959 --> 03:25:41,360
Speaker 1: that's why going to a doctor is so scary. They

3413
03:25:41,360 --> 03:25:44,440
Speaker 1: seem to be the arbiter of your fate. They're going

3414
03:25:44,480 --> 03:25:48,160
Speaker 1: to tell you whether you're well or not. And and

3415
03:25:48,240 --> 03:25:54,039
Speaker 1: that is just the truth, and much better to have

3416
03:25:54,200 --> 03:25:57,560
Speaker 1: it where people are making up their own mind based

3417
03:25:57,680 --> 03:26:01,920
Speaker 1: on learning about their own health and consulting with people

3418
03:26:02,640 --> 03:26:06,640
Speaker 1: who can give them perspective. Um, and if there's more

3419
03:26:06,680 --> 03:26:10,280
Speaker 1: of that, and if it's closer to the person who's

3420
03:26:10,400 --> 03:26:14,520
Speaker 1: actually suffering, that I think will be on the whole

3421
03:26:14,600 --> 03:26:19,240
Speaker 1: much better. Yeah, it's this the and this gets tangled

3422
03:26:19,280 --> 03:26:20,959
Speaker 1: up in a lot of the more toxic things we've

3423
03:26:20,959 --> 03:26:25,160
Speaker 1: seen this year. But it's this this understanding that with

3424
03:26:25,240 --> 03:26:29,560
Speaker 1: any given problem, if individuals trying to solve that problem

3425
03:26:29,680 --> 03:26:33,920
Speaker 1: have more autonomy, and part of autonomy is knowledge, that's

3426
03:26:34,320 --> 03:26:37,840
Speaker 1: nearly always better. UM. The problem, of course is that

3427
03:26:37,879 --> 03:26:39,760
Speaker 1: like we we get into this situation, we are now

3428
03:26:39,760 --> 03:26:43,160
Speaker 1: where some people take, I'm take some people some people

3429
03:26:43,320 --> 03:26:46,320
Speaker 1: use I want to take control of my health care

3430
03:26:46,400 --> 03:26:49,560
Speaker 1: to you know, do stuff that's nonsense, And that brings

3431
03:26:49,600 --> 03:26:52,080
Speaker 1: us back to the question of like, yeah, you in

3432
03:26:52,160 --> 03:26:54,680
Speaker 1: for the quality of the information that you're getting is

3433
03:26:54,800 --> 03:26:57,560
Speaker 1: very important, right because if if you're if you if

3434
03:26:58,040 --> 03:27:00,760
Speaker 1: your research is some YouTube video that convinced you that

3435
03:27:00,800 --> 03:27:03,640
Speaker 1: you need to you know, take this this horse paste

3436
03:27:03,680 --> 03:27:06,360
Speaker 1: or something, then yeah, that's not good. But that doesn't

3437
03:27:06,440 --> 03:27:10,040
Speaker 1: change the fact that, like with food, like with with

3438
03:27:10,120 --> 03:27:13,240
Speaker 1: everything that you need to survive, the more of a

3439
03:27:13,400 --> 03:27:19,080
Speaker 1: role you have in understanding that, deciding what to do

3440
03:27:19,080 --> 03:27:21,039
Speaker 1: with that, understanding where it comes from and how it

3441
03:27:21,120 --> 03:27:25,119
Speaker 1: is produced. UM. Not just like not only is that

3442
03:27:25,160 --> 03:27:27,240
Speaker 1: I think more satisfying as a human, but it's it's

3443
03:27:27,280 --> 03:27:34,760
Speaker 1: also critical to to your well being. UM, it's critical

3444
03:27:34,800 --> 03:27:38,480
Speaker 1: to like on two levels, right on two levels, because

3445
03:27:38,600 --> 03:27:46,600
Speaker 1: not only when your health is taken from you, it

3446
03:27:46,640 --> 03:27:49,960
Speaker 1: doesn't deprive you of life, but it deprives you participating

3447
03:27:50,480 --> 03:27:55,720
Speaker 1: in any of the acts that make life meaningful. And

3448
03:27:56,080 --> 03:27:58,960
Speaker 1: part of that key thing that makes life meaningful is

3449
03:27:59,320 --> 03:28:06,120
Speaker 1: having a participatory role in the things that decide the

3450
03:28:06,160 --> 03:28:10,520
Speaker 1: trajectory of your life. And so when you go to

3451
03:28:11,600 --> 03:28:16,240
Speaker 1: the lengths of managing your own health, two things happen.

3452
03:28:16,760 --> 03:28:21,040
Speaker 1: First off, your health improves, assuming you've made good decisions

3453
03:28:21,080 --> 03:28:26,040
Speaker 1: and get lucky. But second, you're also having a participatory

3454
03:28:26,200 --> 03:28:31,600
Speaker 1: role in your life, and that makes life more meaningful.

3455
03:28:32,240 --> 03:28:36,519
Speaker 1: And it beyond just kind of the self actualization benefits

3456
03:28:36,640 --> 03:28:39,920
Speaker 1: from from a perspective of actually enabling people to participate

3457
03:28:40,440 --> 03:28:43,960
Speaker 1: in the move for radical change in our society. One

3458
03:28:44,120 --> 03:28:46,760
Speaker 1: necessary element of that to any of the kind of

3459
03:28:46,760 --> 03:28:51,440
Speaker 1: things that we need is a belief in your own

3460
03:28:51,480 --> 03:28:55,840
Speaker 1: agency and power. Um. And also and a freedom from

3461
03:28:55,879 --> 03:28:59,120
Speaker 1: the kind of fear that comes from feeling helpless. And

3462
03:28:59,160 --> 03:29:02,240
Speaker 1: there is I think probably no feeling worse in the

3463
03:29:02,280 --> 03:29:07,160
Speaker 1: world than feeling completely helpless about a treatable medical problem. Um.

3464
03:29:07,200 --> 03:29:09,039
Speaker 1: I mean, it's one thing I just went through my mom.

3465
03:29:09,040 --> 03:29:11,039
Speaker 1: When you get a disease where there's just nothing that

3466
03:29:11,080 --> 03:29:13,320
Speaker 1: science can do right, where like, yeah, you've got this

3467
03:29:13,440 --> 03:29:16,199
Speaker 1: cancer and there there ain't ship anybody has for you.

3468
03:29:16,200 --> 03:29:20,480
Speaker 1: You know, that's one kind of horrible, but I think

3469
03:29:20,480 --> 03:29:23,760
Speaker 1: it's a lot less terrible than you. I have this

3470
03:29:23,840 --> 03:29:26,320
Speaker 1: thing that we can deal with, but I either can't

3471
03:29:26,320 --> 03:29:27,800
Speaker 1: afford it or I don't know that I'll be able

3472
03:29:27,800 --> 03:29:30,000
Speaker 1: to afford it. I had a horrible I lost my

3473
03:29:30,160 --> 03:29:33,360
Speaker 1: job in my healthcare in seventeen and so did a

3474
03:29:33,440 --> 03:29:35,200
Speaker 1: person who was on my healthcare with me that I

3475
03:29:35,240 --> 03:29:39,879
Speaker 1: love very much. And I got this, you know, hired

3476
03:29:39,959 --> 03:29:42,360
Speaker 1: here in healthcare a couple of years later. And it

3477
03:29:42,480 --> 03:29:47,200
Speaker 1: happened that a month before the the I started my

3478
03:29:47,240 --> 03:29:49,800
Speaker 1: health care at this new job, this person who was

3479
03:29:49,840 --> 03:29:52,560
Speaker 1: on my healthcare with me um got diagnosed with a

3480
03:29:52,600 --> 03:29:54,920
Speaker 1: brain tumor, and thankfully not a cancerous one, but the

3481
03:29:54,920 --> 03:29:56,880
Speaker 1: one that they had to take medication for that would

3482
03:29:56,879 --> 03:30:00,200
Speaker 1: have been would have bankrupted us, you know, with out

3483
03:30:01,040 --> 03:30:04,400
Speaker 1: the without insurance, and thankfully it worked out fine. The

3484
03:30:04,440 --> 03:30:07,120
Speaker 1: timing worked out okay. But there's not a week that

3485
03:30:07,160 --> 03:30:10,160
Speaker 1: goes by that I don't and it it it's it's

3486
03:30:10,640 --> 03:30:13,400
Speaker 1: it is something that makes you less willing to take risks,

3487
03:30:13,480 --> 03:30:17,440
Speaker 1: less willing to participate in in things that because you

3488
03:30:17,520 --> 03:30:19,000
Speaker 1: have in the back of your head, well, I have

3489
03:30:19,080 --> 03:30:21,080
Speaker 1: to I have to keep this job, I have to

3490
03:30:21,120 --> 03:30:24,840
Speaker 1: keep this insurance, I have to y yeah that. And

3491
03:30:25,360 --> 03:30:28,560
Speaker 1: that's another thing that I find so heartbreaking. There's so

3492
03:30:28,600 --> 03:30:34,039
Speaker 1: many people that I've I've met totally outside of my

3493
03:30:34,120 --> 03:30:39,080
Speaker 1: activism who lament about working a job that they hate,

3494
03:30:39,120 --> 03:30:42,920
Speaker 1: and I say, gosh, for you know, I mean, you

3495
03:30:43,240 --> 03:30:46,360
Speaker 1: consider just bailing on it and looking for something else

3496
03:30:46,360 --> 03:30:51,279
Speaker 1: and trying something else. And they have this total paralysis

3497
03:30:52,480 --> 03:30:56,920
Speaker 1: of saying, but if I quit my job, I won't

3498
03:30:56,959 --> 03:31:01,640
Speaker 1: have healthcare m hm and and and mind you like,

3499
03:31:02,680 --> 03:31:07,840
Speaker 1: these were people who were incredibly healthy. These were not

3500
03:31:07,920 --> 03:31:12,440
Speaker 1: people who had any regular visits to healthcare. They're just

3501
03:31:12,480 --> 03:31:15,240
Speaker 1: scared that if something comes up, they want people to

3502
03:31:15,280 --> 03:31:18,920
Speaker 1: handle it. And it's it's a perfectly well grounded fear.

3503
03:31:19,280 --> 03:31:24,080
Speaker 1: But as you point out, what this does is it

3504
03:31:24,120 --> 03:31:29,199
Speaker 1: works as this sort of shadow oppressive mechanism to keep

3505
03:31:29,320 --> 03:31:35,480
Speaker 1: people from exploring, trying things, as you say, taking risks,

3506
03:31:35,560 --> 03:31:42,360
Speaker 1: or or just doing things that that don't involve a

3507
03:31:42,360 --> 03:31:46,920
Speaker 1: an optimization toward a stable state of maybe just like yeah,

3508
03:31:46,959 --> 03:31:49,400
Speaker 1: maybe I'll start a small business and yeah, it probably

3509
03:31:49,440 --> 03:31:52,520
Speaker 1: will fail, but that will be a cool adventure. And

3510
03:31:53,040 --> 03:31:56,199
Speaker 1: most people, you know, so many people, maybe not most,

3511
03:31:56,240 --> 03:32:01,840
Speaker 1: but many, many people, um get just terrified into this

3512
03:32:01,959 --> 03:32:06,840
Speaker 1: state of inertial paralysis. Yeah, and it contributes to people

3513
03:32:06,879 --> 03:32:09,280
Speaker 1: being afraid to take to the street to protest the

3514
03:32:09,280 --> 03:32:11,840
Speaker 1: police because maybe they get arrested and maybe they get fired,

3515
03:32:11,879 --> 03:32:14,640
Speaker 1: and then you know, maybe their kid can't afford their Like,

3516
03:32:14,680 --> 03:32:17,840
Speaker 1: there's a thousand ways. I think, honestly, the fear of

3517
03:32:18,000 --> 03:32:21,480
Speaker 1: losing your health care is in some ways as great

3518
03:32:21,640 --> 03:32:24,800
Speaker 1: a greater counter revolutionary force than any law enforcement agency

3519
03:32:24,840 --> 03:32:27,120
Speaker 1: could hope to be, because the fear is so much

3520
03:32:27,160 --> 03:32:32,080
Speaker 1: more immediate to so many people. Nobody talks about that,

3521
03:32:32,440 --> 03:32:34,920
Speaker 1: And thank you so much for mentioning it, because it's

3522
03:32:34,959 --> 03:32:37,880
Speaker 1: something that like, oftentimes I try to bring up when

3523
03:32:38,720 --> 03:32:42,160
Speaker 1: I'm discussing things in public for and and oftentimes people

3524
03:32:42,240 --> 03:32:43,840
Speaker 1: kind of raise an eyebrow and me and be like,

3525
03:32:44,120 --> 03:32:46,080
Speaker 1: that's what's the big deal, And I'm like, no, no no, Like,

3526
03:32:46,360 --> 03:32:49,720
Speaker 1: if you look two layers deep, there's something that's really

3527
03:32:49,760 --> 03:32:58,040
Speaker 1: working against people being able to exercise protests, and it's, uh,

3528
03:32:58,080 --> 03:33:02,240
Speaker 1: it's it's it's this really link terrifying force that seems

3529
03:33:02,280 --> 03:33:07,879
Speaker 1: to underlie everything. And if you could alleviate that, if

3530
03:33:07,879 --> 03:33:10,640
Speaker 1: you could get to the point where people are like, yeah,

3531
03:33:10,640 --> 03:33:13,080
Speaker 1: the hell with it, you know, I don't need a

3532
03:33:13,280 --> 03:33:17,279
Speaker 1: job to take care of me, then all of a sudden,

3533
03:33:17,640 --> 03:33:23,800
Speaker 1: so many possibilities just blossomed in the mind. Yeah, if

3534
03:33:23,879 --> 03:33:25,840
Speaker 1: you have like it, say, if you're a parent who

3535
03:33:25,879 --> 03:33:30,240
Speaker 1: has a child with you know who, who's insolent dependent. Uh,

3536
03:33:30,400 --> 03:33:33,440
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of difference in my mind between

3537
03:33:33,560 --> 03:33:36,480
Speaker 1: the fact that between someone holding a gun to your

3538
03:33:36,480 --> 03:33:39,120
Speaker 1: head and your boss being able to fire you and

3539
03:33:39,120 --> 03:33:41,760
Speaker 1: take away your your kids access to that insulent there's

3540
03:33:41,760 --> 03:33:46,360
Speaker 1: not a tremendous moral difference. To me. Um, I'd say

3541
03:33:46,400 --> 03:33:49,640
Speaker 1: getting a gun to your head is actually more likely

3542
03:33:49,680 --> 03:33:54,160
Speaker 1: to survive that it's less inevitable. You could talk your

3543
03:33:54,200 --> 03:33:57,200
Speaker 1: way out of that, and yeah, I mean whatever, but

3544
03:33:57,320 --> 03:33:59,440
Speaker 1: there are any number of things that might go wrong there.

3545
03:33:59,480 --> 03:34:02,760
Speaker 1: But if somebody takes away your insulin, that's the end

3546
03:34:02,800 --> 03:34:06,199
Speaker 1: of the story. Yeah, I guess the more salient point

3547
03:34:06,240 --> 03:34:09,240
Speaker 1: than the comparison issues. They're both acts of violence, and

3548
03:34:09,280 --> 03:34:11,800
Speaker 1: in every way that's meaningful, I think they're both acts

3549
03:34:11,800 --> 03:34:15,320
Speaker 1: of violence. Well, and one way that when I reil

3550
03:34:15,640 --> 03:34:20,000
Speaker 1: against intellectual property as a concept and intellectual property law,

3551
03:34:20,640 --> 03:34:23,320
Speaker 1: the example that I give is they say, if somebody

3552
03:34:23,320 --> 03:34:26,680
Speaker 1: were dying and you knew how to save them, would

3553
03:34:26,680 --> 03:34:31,320
Speaker 1: you ever not tell them how and just watch them die? Say,

3554
03:34:31,600 --> 03:34:33,840
Speaker 1: oh no, that idea belongs to me, and I'm not

3555
03:34:33,879 --> 03:34:37,880
Speaker 1: going to share unless you pay me. Like no human

3556
03:34:38,040 --> 03:34:42,240
Speaker 1: being that I think I've ever heard of would do that.

3557
03:34:43,000 --> 03:34:49,360
Speaker 1: And yet this happens every day because we've sort of

3558
03:34:49,400 --> 03:34:54,560
Speaker 1: carried these questions of copyright into patents and despite the

3559
03:34:54,600 --> 03:34:56,600
Speaker 1: fact that they are hundreds of years old and not

3560
03:34:56,959 --> 03:35:02,200
Speaker 1: applicable anymore, assuming they were ever applicable, and people just

3561
03:35:02,280 --> 03:35:05,120
Speaker 1: die because people say, oh, well, we can make more

3562
03:35:05,160 --> 03:35:07,920
Speaker 1: money if we do it this way. There's a fascinating

3563
03:35:08,920 --> 03:35:11,200
Speaker 1: thing going on there when you when you really drill

3564
03:35:11,240 --> 03:35:13,080
Speaker 1: into that idea, because I suspect there are a lot

3565
03:35:13,080 --> 03:35:17,920
Speaker 1: of people who have who are are integral in propping

3566
03:35:18,000 --> 03:35:21,280
Speaker 1: up this system, both of kind of medical intellectual property

3567
03:35:21,320 --> 03:35:23,400
Speaker 1: and of just like the pharmaceutical industry, the way that

3568
03:35:23,400 --> 03:35:26,160
Speaker 1: it works people in politics, huge numbers of people who

3569
03:35:26,200 --> 03:35:29,720
Speaker 1: are integral in some facet of keeping that going, who

3570
03:35:29,760 --> 03:35:33,400
Speaker 1: also were they to see an individual and immediate medical distress,

3571
03:35:33,480 --> 03:35:37,280
Speaker 1: would never think of like try getting their debit card

3572
03:35:37,400 --> 03:35:40,600
Speaker 1: number or whatever, like asking them would would without thinking

3573
03:35:40,640 --> 03:35:43,240
Speaker 1: attempt because that's what people do. And it's I mean,

3574
03:35:43,240 --> 03:35:44,720
Speaker 1: this is where we get into kind of some of

3575
03:35:44,720 --> 03:35:49,840
Speaker 1: these more philosophical anarchist ideas about what hierarchy does and

3576
03:35:49,840 --> 03:35:53,760
Speaker 1: what these structures do, because structures enable people to participate

3577
03:35:53,800 --> 03:35:57,560
Speaker 1: in evil that they never would as an individual. Um. Yeah,

3578
03:35:57,600 --> 03:36:02,160
Speaker 1: there's this easy route that many easy routes that pop

3579
03:36:02,280 --> 03:36:07,480
Speaker 1: up that allow people or force I should say force

3580
03:36:07,600 --> 03:36:11,560
Speaker 1: people to be displaced from their humanity in that sort

3581
03:36:11,600 --> 03:36:15,360
Speaker 1: of way where, yes, of course, you you help somebody

3582
03:36:15,520 --> 03:36:19,280
Speaker 1: up off of subway tracks if they've fallen. Yes, of course,

3583
03:36:19,360 --> 03:36:23,160
Speaker 1: if somebody were drowning, you drag them out and save them.

3584
03:36:23,280 --> 03:36:27,240
Speaker 1: And yet, just because it's a degree removed and it's

3585
03:36:27,480 --> 03:36:32,199
Speaker 1: mediated by an agency, suddenly it's so easy to forget

3586
03:36:32,320 --> 03:36:37,320
Speaker 1: and ignore and be sort of complicit. And yeah, and

3587
03:36:37,360 --> 03:36:40,640
Speaker 1: I just to go back around to what four Thieves

3588
03:36:40,720 --> 03:36:43,039
Speaker 1: is doing and what y'all are doing. It's one of

3589
03:36:43,080 --> 03:36:47,480
Speaker 1: the few projects going on right now that fits what

3590
03:36:47,640 --> 03:36:51,680
Speaker 1: my idealistic nineteen year old brain thought the Internet would

3591
03:36:51,720 --> 03:36:53,760
Speaker 1: be sixteen fifteen, like when I when it was when

3592
03:36:53,760 --> 03:36:56,640
Speaker 1: things were newer and a little less were like, oh,

3593
03:36:56,760 --> 03:36:58,760
Speaker 1: this is like one of these days, Well this kind

3594
03:36:58,760 --> 03:37:02,560
Speaker 1: of ship's going to happen. Um, And that is I think,

3595
03:37:02,600 --> 03:37:05,640
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's not without value from again a

3596
03:37:05,680 --> 03:37:10,400
Speaker 1: revolutionary perspective, the fact that it is pretty rad you know. Well,

3597
03:37:10,440 --> 03:37:13,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I will not deny the fact that it

3598
03:37:13,120 --> 03:37:17,800
Speaker 1: feels good, you know there. I think that I think

3599
03:37:17,800 --> 03:37:21,640
Speaker 1: that we all grow up with that sort of hope

3600
03:37:21,680 --> 03:37:25,520
Speaker 1: and belief that we were gonna open these new doors

3601
03:37:25,560 --> 03:37:27,680
Speaker 1: and there were going to be these new possibilities and

3602
03:37:27,840 --> 03:37:31,640
Speaker 1: things that we have been reading about in science fiction.

3603
03:37:31,920 --> 03:37:35,680
Speaker 1: We're going to become real and and there's there's a

3604
03:37:35,760 --> 03:37:41,640
Speaker 1: great satisfaction in not just witnessing your childhood dreams become realities,

3605
03:37:41,640 --> 03:37:44,640
Speaker 1: but actually, you know, having a hand in it. Uh,

3606
03:37:44,640 --> 03:37:47,600
Speaker 1: It's there's there's something quite satisfying about that. I will

3607
03:37:48,440 --> 03:37:52,560
Speaker 1: I will admit, well, I think that's a pretty good

3608
03:37:52,640 --> 03:37:54,720
Speaker 1: point to close out on today. I don't need to

3609
03:37:54,760 --> 03:37:57,280
Speaker 1: take up too much more of your time right now, Michael.

3610
03:37:57,320 --> 03:37:59,520
Speaker 1: But but as I told people, I'm going to be

3611
03:38:00,320 --> 03:38:02,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be trying to get into some of this

3612
03:38:02,280 --> 03:38:06,720
Speaker 1: because I find it just both fascinating and incredibly hopeful. Um,

3613
03:38:06,760 --> 03:38:10,680
Speaker 1: in a world where it seems like, uh, there are

3614
03:38:10,720 --> 03:38:14,360
Speaker 1: constantly forces conspiring to strip people of their ability to

3615
03:38:14,360 --> 03:38:17,800
Speaker 1: take control of critical aspects of their lives, you and

3616
03:38:17,959 --> 03:38:20,760
Speaker 1: your your colleagues in this are trying to give people

3617
03:38:21,760 --> 03:38:26,480
Speaker 1: opportunities to take some some power back for themselves, and

3618
03:38:26,520 --> 03:38:31,720
Speaker 1: I just think that's it's pretty dope. Thank you so much. Yeah,

3619
03:38:31,800 --> 03:38:34,320
Speaker 1: and see your listeners. If there are people out there

3620
03:38:34,400 --> 03:38:36,920
Speaker 1: who like what we're doing, you want to support the project,

3621
03:38:37,760 --> 03:38:41,440
Speaker 1: please go find somebody who needs your help but doesn't

3622
03:38:41,520 --> 03:38:45,000
Speaker 1: deserve it, and then go help them anyway. Yeah. Yeah,

3623
03:38:45,040 --> 03:38:48,640
Speaker 1: that's always a good thing to do. Um, Michael, anything else,

3624
03:38:48,640 --> 03:38:51,200
Speaker 1: any like a thing else you want to kind of

3625
03:38:51,280 --> 03:38:54,120
Speaker 1: put This is normally the section where people plug websites

3626
03:38:54,240 --> 03:38:56,440
Speaker 1: or projects or anything. You've got anything in particularly you

3627
03:38:56,440 --> 03:39:00,760
Speaker 1: want to throw out there right now. Uh sure, we're

3628
03:39:00,840 --> 03:39:04,320
Speaker 1: hoping to do a bunch of big releases in the summer, um,

3629
03:39:04,440 --> 03:39:08,720
Speaker 1: so look for those. In the meantime. We're always looking

3630
03:39:08,720 --> 03:39:12,320
Speaker 1: for help. So if you're out there and you'd like

3631
03:39:12,440 --> 03:39:16,640
Speaker 1: to be assisted in the project, uh, please get in touch.

3632
03:39:16,720 --> 03:39:19,560
Speaker 1: There's the contact us page on the website and by

3633
03:39:19,560 --> 03:39:22,119
Speaker 1: the way, this do not have to be a technical

3634
03:39:22,160 --> 03:39:25,680
Speaker 1: person we're looking for currently, we're looking for writers. We

3635
03:39:25,720 --> 03:39:27,760
Speaker 1: have a lot of documentation that we need to do,

3636
03:39:27,879 --> 03:39:30,959
Speaker 1: so if you're out there and you have you know,

3637
03:39:31,879 --> 03:39:37,440
Speaker 1: background in in language, then that would be great. If

3638
03:39:37,680 --> 03:39:40,800
Speaker 1: if you're somebody who feels that you're entirely without skills,

3639
03:39:41,040 --> 03:39:44,440
Speaker 1: please get in touch. We have any number of endless

3640
03:39:44,480 --> 03:39:47,039
Speaker 1: small tasks that just need to be taken care of

3641
03:39:47,040 --> 03:39:50,039
Speaker 1: because we don't have enough people. So if you'd like

3642
03:39:50,120 --> 03:39:52,879
Speaker 1: to participate, we'd love to have you. Please get in

3643
03:39:52,959 --> 03:39:57,200
Speaker 1: touch and in the meantime, keep each other healthy, keep

3644
03:39:57,240 --> 03:40:01,160
Speaker 1: each other. Thank you so much, Michael, thanks so much

3645
03:40:01,160 --> 03:40:15,520
Speaker 1: for having me. Hey, we'll be back Monday with more

3646
03:40:15,560 --> 03:40:18,240
Speaker 1: episodes every week from now until the heat death of

3647
03:40:18,240 --> 03:40:21,039
Speaker 1: the Universe. It Could Happen Here is a production of

3648
03:40:21,040 --> 03:40:23,959
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,

3649
03:40:24,080 --> 03:40:26,520
Speaker 1: visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check

3650
03:40:26,600 --> 03:40:28,840
Speaker 1: us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

3651
03:40:28,959 --> 03:40:32,000
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources

3652
03:40:32,000 --> 03:40:34,560
Speaker 1: for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone

3653
03:40:34,600 --> 03:40:38,960
Speaker 1: Media dot com. Slash sources thanks for listening. Conquer your

3654
03:40:39,000 --> 03:40:42,240
Speaker 1: New Year's resolutions. With the Before Breakfast podcast and each

3655
03:40:42,320 --> 03:40:44,600
Speaker 1: bite sized daily episode, you'll learn how to make the

3656
03:40:44,680 --> 03:40:46,959
Speaker 1: most of your time with practical tools to help you

3657
03:40:47,000 --> 03:40:49,600
Speaker 1: feel less busy and get more done. Listen to Before

3658
03:40:49,640 --> 03:40:52,000
Speaker 1: Breakfast on the I Heart Radio app four wherever you

3659
03:40:52,040 --> 03:40:57,039
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Look for your children's eyes and you

3660
03:40:57,080 --> 03:41:00,840
Speaker 1: will discover the true magic of a forest. Find a

3661
03:41:00,920 --> 03:41:04,160
Speaker 1: forest near you and start exploring at discover the forest

3662
03:41:04,320 --> 03:41:06,880
Speaker 1: dot org. Brought to you by the United States Forest

3663
03:41:06,920 --> 03:41:11,120
Speaker 1: Service and the AD Council, The Black Effect Presents features

3664
03:41:11,120 --> 03:41:15,680
Speaker 1: honest conversations and exclusive interviews, a space for artists, everyday people,

3665
03:41:15,760 --> 03:41:20,200
Speaker 1: and listeners to amplify, elevate, and empower Black voices with

3666
03:41:20,280 --> 03:41:23,480
Speaker 1: great conversations. Make sure to listen to The Black Effect

3667
03:41:23,480 --> 03:41:27,320
Speaker 1: Presents podcast on I Heart Radio, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

3668
03:41:27,600 --> 03:41:28,680
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.