WEBVTT - From Tariffs to Total Control | A Conversation with David Pakman 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.600 Welcome to this conversation on the Warning, and I am 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:06.680 really pleased to be joined by my friend David Pacman 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:10.280 of the David Pacman Show, one of the great independent 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:15.400 media broadcasts and one of the first sizeable, at scale 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:22.400 independent media broadcasts and substacks. And we're all following in 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:25.120 David's footsteps in a lot of ways. I know I've 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:30.280 learned a lot from him listening to them, and and 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:34.200 have benefited a lot as we've built the Warning community. 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:38.120 And so I'm really thrilled to welcome David here as 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:42.600 our audience grows a little bit tonight, David, welcome. I 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:45.000 want to I wanted to ask you, as we come 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:48.600 up on the one hundred and seventy five day mark 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:54.560 of all of this, how you see things in the circus, 0:00:54.640 --> 0:01:01.600 the fight such as it is, the scale of wreckage 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:05.200 such as it is, is how I imagine it to be. 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:12.800 Just we'll keep expanding. And so this week today, when 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:16.800 you look out there, what what? What? What do you 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:21.600 have your eye on as most worrisome in the moment, 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:27.760 the thing that you look at And for me, even 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:31.520 though I am not surprised by anything, I still look 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:36.880 at it and I say wow, and experiencing it is 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:42.920 different than anticipating it and feeling the anxiety and the 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:50.800 worry and the dread is different than at It is 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:55.160 different in its arrival and it's and it's feeling than 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:59.080 anticipating it. So so what do you what do you 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:01.120 see when you look at out there and well, what 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:03.720 do you have? You're kind of oh my god, eyes 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:06.440 you know, drawn too right now? 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:12.080 So two categories, the authoritarianism and the economy and the 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:14.680 economic stuff. I'll start with the economic stuff because it's 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:16.200 sort of clearer cut. 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:16.440 In a way. 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:19.920 I've always been super honest with my audience, whether it's 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:22.760 a Democrat or Republican in the White House, I'm just 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:26.840 going to tell you what's GDP, what's unemployment? Where's the 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:31.320 stock market? Inflation? These sort of metrics. There are a 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:35.440 couple of concerning economic metrics, but a lot of them 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:38.560 are actually okay ish. Now, the big one that's a 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:40.800 concern is Q one GDP was down. 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:42.519 We are now in Q two. 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:46.240 Q two GDP may also end up being down, will 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:50.760 know around July twentieth and two consecutive GDP decline quarters 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:55.920 would be bad. But despite inflation fears inflation's actually been 0:02:55.960 --> 0:03:01.919 stable despite unemployment fears. Unemployment's actually been stable. Gas prices 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:04.760 have been basically flat since Trump took over. So if 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:07.120 I just do like an honest assessment of the metrics 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:12.919 concerning signs, but some of the big indicators, okay for now, 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:17.320 But this tariff impact is not even close to fully 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:19.639 felt yet. I mean, it's are they on, are they off? 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:22.160 It depends on the day. What's the Okay, So the 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:29.080 economic stuff is concerning trajectory, okay, ish for now. The 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:36.120 authoritarianism bucket is extraordinarily disturbing. And there are so many 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:38.560 different aspects to this, and we can focus in on 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:40.640 any of them. But of course there's the hostility and 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:44.680 attacks on a free press, the ignoring of due process, 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:49.960 the unilateral decisions, no matter what the judiciary says, no 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:52.839 matter what it would mean to actually follow law and order, 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:59.040 unilateral actions. Also internally within the federal government, the firings, 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:02.760 the saying we're going to totally upend or even destroy 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:06.480 your kneecap entire agencies, etc. I don't have to give 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:08.480 you the full list, but sort of like bucket number 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:12.680 two is the authoritarianism bucket. I'm way more concerned there 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:15.680 in the immediate than I am about the economic stuff. 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:18.719 But that doesn't mean the economic stuff won't get much worse. 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:24.719 Do you have any doubt about the trajectory of where 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:28.880 the economic stuff goes at this point? When you look 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:30.320 ahead a year from now. 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:37.920 If the tariffs in their most extreme iteration are solidified 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:41.719 and start to take effect, there's no doubt whatsoever it 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:47.520 will be reduced hiring, higher prices, stagnant or declining, stock 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:51.960 market continue, GDP declines. I mean, there's just no way 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.320 you can do a blanket import tax and not have 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:59.080 it trickle down the way the most basic economics, whether 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:02.840 you follow you know, Richard Woolf for Thomas sol right, 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:06.120 if you just put a blanket import tax on everything, 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:09.440 there's really only one way that that can go. Now, 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:13.240 Trump and the people around him have crafted this sort 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:16.360 of justification, which is that may happen in the short term, 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:20.479 but as the supply chains are on reshort or on 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:25.240 short everything's going to sort itself out. The problem with 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:28.200 that is a lot of these industries require eight to 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:33.120 twelve years to reshore. Until you actually build that capacity, 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:39.560 everything will still cost way more. And that's not also 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:44.240 even feasible when it has to do with natural resources 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:48.680 that just aren't necessarily found geographically within American borders. So 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:51.640 you can't even really do that with all industries. So 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:56.400 that's the theoretical justification. It's not a three and a 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.560 half year possibility, which is what Trump has left, so 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:01.520 we know the effect will be over the next three 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:02.719 and a half years. 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:06.320 One of the things when I think about the economy 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:10.880 and I think about all of the rhetoric and all 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:14.599 of the empty promises around, really three things to me 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:20.960 that stand out. It's that Trump will make declarations lively 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:27.160 that I've landed a trillion dollar deal, seven trillion dollars 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:31.680 from the Emiratis, eight trillion from the Kataris, and there 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:35.720 won't be a dollar of this ever ever seen. I 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:41.680 don't think any of it is real. And when I 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:45.560 conjecture ahead, well, what I see is a lot of 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:49.280 impact that's coming, I think it's I think it's too 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:51.960 late too. I think it's too late to stop it. 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:59.000 But when Trump talks about the reshoring, the jobs and 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:03.360 everything that that's coming back, I think this is all nonsense, right, 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:07.680 none of it's real, you know. But I think about 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:12.600 one are the things that clearly drives Trump crazy psychologically, 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:17.760 and like some of Trump's behaviors, right, it's not ungrounded 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:21.880 in total delusion, right, I mean, it's not grounded in 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:24.800 total delusion. Right. He has a reason for his peak, 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:27.960 and it's about Air Force one. Right. So, and I 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:31.200 think about this and I thank god, right, or we're 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:33.560 in big trouble, right if this country has to fight 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:36.320 a war. And I don't. I don't have an answer 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:40.640 to this question. Truthfully, I don't know why, right, things 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:43.480 have gone off the rails like this in the country. 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:47.160 But to some degree, I think it's why Trump has 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:49.960 wound up as a demagogue in there. And it's that 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:53.640 somebody obviously told him in twenty sixteen that there's a 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:58.560 new Air Force one coming, right, And it's twenty twenty five, right, 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:00.400 and there's no new Air Force one? 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:01.440 Right. 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:05.760 He can't comprehend, right, why over right? The ten years? Right? 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:10.080 The planes not ready? Right, there's two planes and two 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:12.960 seven forty sevens. They can't get them ready over a decade. 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:15.880 And I think it's like he wants it, and I 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:18.800 think he cares about the stuff he wants, but it does. 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:22.080 But it's a legitimate question, right, White Boeing can't make 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:25.640 these two planes right over the over the ten years. 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:29.520 So when we talk about this reshoring business in the 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:32.080 way that Howard Ludnik talks about it, I think it's 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:38.760 I think it's all madness. But we'll see how it 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:42.360 plays out. People will feel it. The economy, as we've 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:46.439 talked about before, is not something that you lecture to people. 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:52.000 It's about how they feel about their security, about prices, 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:56.000 about wages, about jobs, about opportunities. So really ominous signs 0:08:56.640 --> 0:09:01.600 in the housing market across the board. I'm real worrisome things, 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:04.920 but I have to I have to tell you there's 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:11.559 there's nothing for me right now that is more troubling 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:20.440 than the appearance of federal agents with night vision goggles 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:24.200 on in the middle of the day on commercial airliners. 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:30.839 Is their coast playing Navy Seal and Delta force when 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:33.880 they're at the bottom of the federal law enforcement barrel 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:39.920 right the dregs of the pack, and it's unacceptable. The 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:44.160 long rifles, the throwing of flash bangs in San Diego, 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:50.600 the masks, the costumes in the United States of America. 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:55.120 And when I say there's nothing more disturbing to it, 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:59.360 the possible exception is the lack of outcry over it 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:05.000 by the leadership of the Democrats in Washington. I don't 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:07.600 know if you think I'm on if I'm unfair on that, 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:12.200 but but when you see these guys, and I mean guys, 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:20.319 it's mostly guys heavily tattooed, mass up the blood type 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:26.319 on the on the velcrode patch, which is, you know, 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:31.400 standard operating procedure for a special operator in Iraq. They 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:34.520 used to tape it around there, tape it around their boots, 0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:38.840 and so none of this is necessary if you're raiding 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:43.560 restaurants in Washington, DC or suburban San Diego. But but 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:46.040 what do you make about it? It's it's so obvious 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:49.679 to me, right that it's about instilling fear, and and 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:54.040 that this is very deliberately uh moved to turn federal 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:58.160 law enforcement into that proverbial jack booted government thugs, a 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:03.360 storm trooper force. It's just unacceptable, And I don't know 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:05.360 how you feel about it, but I'm real curious to 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:07.199 hear you. 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:08.160 No, I feel the same way. 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:14.360 It's the sort of twentieth century authoritarian playbook of shock 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:19.200 troops and making people afraid, and it's sadly, I wish 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:21.440 it weren't a playbook that we were so familiar with 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:24.760 and that had been studied so extensively during the twentieth century. 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:26.520 I think the other thing that comes out to me 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:29.880 to not repeat what you said, which I mostly agree with. 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.040 There's another aspect to this, which is I have a 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:35.240 chapter in my book, and I talk extensively on my 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:39.040 show about how I don't find that much value in 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:44.240 engaging with this movement on their so called first principles 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:48.640 and on the theoretical philosophical level, because as soon as 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:53.240 it's inconvenient to their immediate goals, those principles are abandoned. 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:56.600 And you see that happening here. You limit the power 0:11:56.720 --> 0:12:00.320 of the federal government, well not when you have others 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:02.560 that you want to achieve, and we've seen this so 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:05.800 many times, right, keep the government out of business, regulation, 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:09.000 keep the government out of people's lives. As soon as 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:12.640 it becomes counter to their immediate goals and what they've 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:15.240 been able to convince the core of their base that 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:18.959 would be good for them, those principles immediately go out 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:19.440 the window. 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:20.360 And so what was the. 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:23.439 Value in actually debating the principles with them? Because they 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:26.560 don't even believe them beyond just having something to say 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:28.360 as soon as it becomes inconvenient. 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:30.160 And this is just another reminder of that. 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:32.920 Because every aspect of this they claim to be the 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:35.840 constitutional conservatives, they claim to be for law and order, 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:38.960 they claim to be for limited federal power. All of 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:41.679 these things go out the window because now they've got 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:48.120 a new project, absent a serious policy approach where maybe 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:50.760 we'll talk about the big beautiful bill, but that's the 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.080 only real thing that is even on the table. So 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:56.480 absent that, they go, let's abandon all of those stated principles. 0:12:56.920 --> 0:13:00.120 Here's how we're going to execute this immigration, whatever you 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.080 want to call it, and all those principles no longer matter. 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:09.560 When you look at the Republican Party. I mean, so 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:16.319 when I hear you talking about the party, the Republican Party, 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:21.800 to me, it's so far gone at this point. And 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:26.359 I've talked about this for ten years, and the trajectory 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:30.319 of this is just beyond dispute, and I just want 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:35.280 to put myself in agreement with you. It's that the 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:42.640 Republican Party became a hollow party, principal less, and as 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:49.319 a principal less party, it became susceptible to MAGA and 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:56.000 to trump Ism. And there were a lot of conservatives, 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:59.679 such as they were, but we now understand it was 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:04.600 most performative group think that this is the lane I 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:08.720 have to operate in or swim in, however you think 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:12.840 about it, in order to advance myself. But but all 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:19.080 of those people at whatever level have made accommodations to 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:24.560 Trump into MAGA. And what happens in every instance when 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:28.520 fascism comes to power, this is a fascist regime. There's 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:33.800 no dispute about that at this point. Is that it's 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:39.080 conservatives who bring them to power and a coalition, and 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:42.920 the first thing that happens is the fascist completely devour 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:47.840 the conservatives, right, so there is no conservative party. I 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:54.080 talk about this with with the warning audience you know 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:58.680 from you know from time to time, is that it's 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:02.840 really hard to understand what these numbers mean, right, A billion, 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:07.480 a million. And the best way that I've ever heard 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:09.360 anyone explain it is that if I say to you, 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:13.840 let's talk again in a million seconds, that's in twelve days. 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:17.200 If that conversation goes bad and I say let's make 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:21.240 it a billion seconds, that's thirty three years. A trillion 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:24.760 seconds is thirty three thousand years from now. That's the 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:28.440 difference between a billion and a trillion. And this big, 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:34.840 beautiful bill monstrosity adds trillions of dollars to the debt. 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:39.080 Now you have a supposedly once conservative party's making the 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:43.080 argument there should be no attention paid to any deficit, 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:46.880 any debt spending. We should get rid of all limits 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:49.840 on the debt spending. So it's not a conservative party. 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:54.640 It's an extremist party. It's a radical party. And it's 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:59.920 the greatest welfare party in American history with the amount 0:15:59.920 --> 0:16:05.600 of money that it's transferring regressively from the American people 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:10.800 to the wealthiest human beings who have ever walked on 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:13.920 the face of the earth. And at the core right 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:19.720 this bill can properly be described has never so much 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:24.920 been taken by so many, by so few, for the 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:30.520 benefit of even fewer. And it's an extraordinary it's an 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:35.320 extraordinary moment. But the most disturbing one to me is 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:40.680 the plain use of force that appears to be escalating 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:45.440 on the orders of Stephen Miller, who's directing this from 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:48.160 the White House. I think it's abore it that he 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:54.640 be named he's unelected, he's extreme, he's belligerent, he's not 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:58.280 confirmed to anything. His policy is being directed out of 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:02.120 the White House. He is wreck and cabinet secretaries that 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:08.359 whole constitutional offices with statutory responsibilities for the execution of 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:11.600 the laws within those offices that are that are routinely 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:19.080 being broken. Uh. And so we have an enormous problem, uh, 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:23.520 with with all of this right now? What what what 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:27.280 are you looking for a Democratic leader or some governor 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:29.959 or some somebody to go out and to say and 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:33.800 where should they say it? Well, in a perfect world, well, 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:36.760 what what? What does? What? What do you see happen 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:41.600 right for for somebody in this country to step forwarded 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:45.560 and and call this out? Well, that's really the question 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:47.359 to be and what needs to be said. 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:52.520 Yeah, you know, that's the question I've been bringing to that. 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:53.720 That's my concern too. 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:59.440 And just opposing Trump and trump Ism is not enough. 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:02.520 That's clear that has failed as an approach for the 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:04.680 Democratic Party. And so over the last month and a 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:09.639 half two months, I've interviewed everybody from Senators Corey Booker, 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:16.440 Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobashar, Governor's Kathy hokeel Phil Murphy from 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:19.520 New Jersey Today, Gavin Newsom, I'm asking all of them 0:18:19.560 --> 0:18:25.240 some version of that question, and if I'm honest, I'm 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:30.600 getting glimmers of things that sound interesting and make some sense. 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:35.560 But there is not a cohesive strategy right now, and 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:39.080 so I am very worried about twenty twenty six and 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:42.480 twenty twenty eight. I mean, I think certainly, if some 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:47.639 portion of the tariffs become a reality, if some version 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:50.000 of the big beautiful bill passes and it has the 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:53.159 economic impact that we expect, there is going to be 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:56.720 plenty to vote against in twenty twenty six, There's no doubt. 0:18:57.160 --> 0:19:00.680 But it's just it's been shown to not really be enough. 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:05.880 And one of the great shortcomings of the Harris campaign 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:10.520 last year, I believe, was that to take two issues, 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:16.359 immigration and crime. My view as an individual is I 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:20.679 think the immigration issue is real and distorted and overblown 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:22.959 in the way that the right was talking about it. 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:27.360 I think the crime issue is nationally crime has been 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:31.200 declining for thirty years, violent and nonviolent. But just telling 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:34.760 people who see crimes in their community that doesn't make 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:38.440 them feel like they're being heard, and they felt dismissed 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:41.240 by Kamala Harris, and it's one of many reasons, but 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:46.840 ultimately she lost. So my concern is I don't see 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:51.600 a cohesive message right now beyond the obvious this is 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:56.480 really bad. We've seen that this is really bad doesn't 0:19:56.520 --> 0:20:00.080 necessarily win you elections it wanted in twenty twenty. I mean, this, 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.280 this is really bad did win in twenty twenty because 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:05.159 Trump was in power, Biden was going to swoop in 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:07.520 and put a stop to it. Okay, so barely, but 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:11.000 it did win. But it's not a winning strategy long term. 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:13.520 So I don't know. I hope that there's some soul 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:14.359 searching going on. 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:20.760 Who do you find really impressive in the Democratic Party 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:26.160 right now from a potential leadership perspective. 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:31.040 So there's a few different ways to answer the questions. 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:33.200 So one category is. 0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:38.840 Who is growing their notoriety in a positive way right 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:42.280 now and is demonstrating they have some cachet by being 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:45.080 able to get crowds going, right, So you've got these 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:48.639 Bernie AOC events. Bernie has made it clear he's not 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:53.480 running AOC. I don't know if in twenty twenty eight 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:57.080 AOC is the future of the Democratic Party, at least 0:20:57.119 --> 0:21:00.480 not yet, but she's certainly generating enthusiasm, which I think 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:06.359 is really interesting, more pragmatically although less exciting certainly than 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:08.639 AOC Bernie, who seemed to be able to generate the 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:12.920 most excitement in person. Right now, are people like Josh Shapiro, 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:18.160 I think is super interesting, Gretchen Whitmer, although she's had 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:21.359 some pr issues with these Trump photo ops, which I 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:23.200 spoke to her about, and I think there's two sides 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:25.600 to that. I think Gretchen Whitmer is interesting in terms 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:27.840 of her political skill, but I don't know if it's 0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:28.840 the right sort of fit. 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:32.879 Somebody like a John ossaf is boota j. 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:37.320 Edge too much bane, capital consultant type to be the 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:41.440 right guy, but I think he's extraordinarily intelligent. Gavin Newsome, 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:44.480 I think, is someone whose name keeps coming up because 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:47.080 he's so liked and disliked, which I think can be 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:49.960 a real problem. Although I think he's very slick, and 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:52.479 sometimes some ways he comes off as too slick and 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:55.479 too rehearsed and prepared. So there's lots of people that 0:21:55.520 --> 0:21:58.879 have elements that I think are interesting, but I don't 0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:02.320 know that there's like a necessarily obvious person right now. 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:14.760 If you could script what the Democratic leader comes out 0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:19.320 and says tomorrow, what do they say to the country. 0:22:21.480 --> 0:22:24.440 You know, it's it's a little difficult to answer it 0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:28.800 because depending on what body they are is, whether it's 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:31.439 a governor or someone who works in the House or Senate, 0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:35.080 or someone who's a former elected official, what an Obama 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:39.320 can say tomorrow is very different than what like Hakeem 0:22:39.400 --> 0:22:42.480 Jeffries can say, or what Chuck Schumer can say. 0:22:42.560 --> 0:22:44.440 So I think it depends on who we're talking about 0:22:44.440 --> 0:22:45.120 to a degree. 0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:50.040 Make it somebody in office today, Okay, if. 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:53.439 They're in office today, I think that the critique of 0:22:53.480 --> 0:22:57.320 what's being done needs to be made in a less 0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:02.800 technocratic and much more emotionally salient way as to the 0:23:02.960 --> 0:23:07.520 impact both of the authoritarianism and the economic policy. And 0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:11.560 at the same time, something tangible needs to be offered 0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:15.920 as to what Democrats can do right now. Now that's 0:23:15.920 --> 0:23:19.600 difficult because Democrats don't control anything right now, and so 0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:22.040 what they've been relegated to. You know, I've spoken to 0:23:22.080 --> 0:23:25.000 some of the attorneys general and others. We've got lawsuits. 0:23:25.800 --> 0:23:30.360 Lawsuits are great, Lawsuits are slow, They're not emotionally salient, 0:23:30.600 --> 0:23:34.040 they don't directly connect with voters as to what these lawsuits, 0:23:34.040 --> 0:23:36.840 if they succeed, mean for me. So I think there 0:23:36.880 --> 0:23:40.199 needs to be something more immediate and tangible. 0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:43.000 But one of the sort of. 0:23:43.000 --> 0:23:47.760 Benefits of the fact that we're already six months into 0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:52.400 twenty twenty five is that the midterms are basically now. 0:23:52.480 --> 0:23:55.200 I mean, you know, we're a year and a few 0:23:55.240 --> 0:23:59.200 months from the midterms, and so sometimes that's the most 0:23:59.200 --> 0:24:02.879 effective thing to get people focused on something defined, because 0:24:03.320 --> 0:24:06.080 generally saying we're going to do everything we can to 0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:09.160 oppose what's going on, and the next thing they try 0:24:09.680 --> 0:24:14.240 for an indeterminate period of time, not emotionally salient, not tangible, 0:24:14.400 --> 0:24:19.600 not tractable. We now have a specific scenario that is 0:24:19.640 --> 0:24:21.240 going to go one way or the other. 0:24:21.680 --> 0:24:24.199 Here are the implications. Here's the date of this election. 0:24:24.800 --> 0:24:27.920 It's sort of trite and stayed, but it's at least 0:24:28.400 --> 0:24:31.760 a date in the calendar that can start to become 0:24:31.800 --> 0:24:33.960 a catalyst for figuring out what needs to happen over 0:24:34.000 --> 0:24:37.000 these next seventeen months or however long exactly it is. 0:24:37.680 --> 0:24:40.480 How do you process what's going on between him and 0:24:40.560 --> 0:24:41.480 Musk right now? 0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:47.400 Well, I think the implosion was inevitable, and I predicted 0:24:47.440 --> 0:24:49.359 it would last at most six months. 0:24:49.400 --> 0:24:52.640 And this was not like some incredible prediction. We might 0:24:52.640 --> 0:24:54.359 have talked about it. Yeah, I think we did. 0:24:54.640 --> 0:24:57.320 I didn't have a particularly insightful prediction. I mean, I 0:24:57.359 --> 0:24:59.560 think it was obvious that at the most it had 0:24:59.680 --> 0:25:04.480 six because when you put billionaire egocentric maniacs together. 0:25:04.680 --> 0:25:06.800 Rarely does it work out particularly well. 0:25:06.840 --> 0:25:10.840 But I don't think the implosion is because Elon Musk 0:25:10.920 --> 0:25:15.200 is strongly ideologically opposed to what's in the Big Beautiful Bill. 0:25:15.640 --> 0:25:18.560 I think it's that Elon Musk sees the fact that 0:25:18.600 --> 0:25:20.720 he was involved with the bill and this is now 0:25:20.760 --> 0:25:22.719 what it looks like. I think he sees it as 0:25:22.720 --> 0:25:26.159 a liability to his businesses and to his reputation, and 0:25:26.200 --> 0:25:28.760 that that's really what he cares about. I don't think 0:25:28.800 --> 0:25:31.560 that he really gives it damn as to whether the 0:25:31.560 --> 0:25:38.080 bill comports to his philosophical beliefs about how governments should run, 0:25:38.160 --> 0:25:39.800 and I just don't think it does. I think it's 0:25:39.800 --> 0:25:41.760 a problem. I think the bill is just a problem 0:25:41.760 --> 0:25:44.240 for him, and the association with Trump has become a 0:25:44.280 --> 0:25:47.480 problem for him. 0:25:47.760 --> 0:25:53.520 There's so many people that are worried about this moment, 0:25:53.760 --> 0:25:57.560 and I think, rightfully, so and they get depressed and 0:25:57.680 --> 0:26:02.520 they get into a doom loop, and right they evaluate 0:26:02.640 --> 0:26:06.960 the reality, which is that Trump holds the power and 0:26:07.200 --> 0:26:12.440 he is applying to Congress and we're seeing the courts pushback, 0:26:12.600 --> 0:26:18.760 but they don't seem to be able to see that 0:26:18.920 --> 0:26:23.280 the pushback of the American people is also real, right, 0:26:23.600 --> 0:26:29.760 and that Trump is having difficulty doing things, and people 0:26:29.840 --> 0:26:33.359 around Trump were getting really banged up, and nobody more 0:26:33.440 --> 0:26:40.000 so than Elon Musk, and so Elon Musk, drug addled, 0:26:41.840 --> 0:26:49.880 black guy, embittered is going back to Texas and he's 0:26:49.920 --> 0:26:52.520 being interviewed this week and he's like, no, no, no, right, 0:26:52.560 --> 0:26:55.800 I want to talk about space. You're never going to 0:26:55.880 --> 0:26:58.080 have an interview again, dude, where you're going to be 0:26:58.200 --> 0:27:02.119 talking about space ever? Fifty two? Right? This is this 0:27:02.160 --> 0:27:03.679 is gonna be living if you live to be one 0:27:03.760 --> 0:27:06.800 hundred and eleven. Right, this is this is it? Right 0:27:06.880 --> 0:27:10.440 what you did? And YouTube guys, right, Trump and him 0:27:10.680 --> 0:27:15.800 are totally inseverable from one another, no matter what, forever 0:27:15.840 --> 0:27:19.399 and ever like truly they are they then right they 0:27:19.520 --> 0:27:24.760 have they are a conjoined person reading a force of 0:27:25.040 --> 0:27:31.520 one and it's definitional form. I think he's wrecked his companies. 0:27:31.560 --> 0:27:34.240 I think he's wrecked his brand, I think he's wrecked 0:27:34.240 --> 0:27:39.200 his reputation. I don't think he'll be a NASA contractor 0:27:39.240 --> 0:27:44.480 a defense contractor any of these things and in the 0:27:44.560 --> 0:27:48.440 not too distant future. And I think that's why it's 0:27:48.440 --> 0:27:53.880 so important for Democrats to start outlining not necessarily a 0:27:53.920 --> 0:27:58.440 Project twenty twenty seven, but a Project twenty twenty nine, 0:27:59.160 --> 0:28:03.160 which is the plan for democratic restoration and for real 0:28:03.280 --> 0:28:08.880 restraints putting on the executive branch, real accountability. And there 0:28:08.960 --> 0:28:11.439 has to be a plan in twenty twenty seven that 0:28:11.480 --> 0:28:15.040 they articulate for oversight. And I think one of the 0:28:15.080 --> 0:28:21.879 areas that most important is oversight on privacy. The accumulation 0:28:22.320 --> 0:28:25.840 of individual data by the government of the people, by 0:28:25.880 --> 0:28:30.840 the people for the people, in handing it to a 0:28:31.000 --> 0:28:37.760 contractor like Palenteer utterly unacceptable in a free society. For 0:28:37.880 --> 0:28:42.640 us to have a digital Stasi in the United States, 0:28:42.680 --> 0:28:48.640 completely unacceptable. I think that the breaking up of the 0:28:48.640 --> 0:28:53.120 Homeland Security Department is going to need to be a 0:28:53.320 --> 0:28:59.360 legislative priority. The reform of these state security bureaus, every 0:28:59.600 --> 0:29:02.880 age and that has appeared with a mask on at 0:29:02.880 --> 0:29:06.120 some point in the near future, I see being asked 0:29:06.160 --> 0:29:10.800 a question by their superiors, did you participate in human 0:29:10.920 --> 0:29:15.080 seizure raids wearing a mask? And if you answer that 0:29:15.160 --> 0:29:18.080 question is yes, then leave your badge and your gun 0:29:18.120 --> 0:29:20.320 and the desk on your way out the fucking door, 0:29:21.000 --> 0:29:24.400 right And so there's gonna be an era of accountability 0:29:24.480 --> 0:29:29.440 for this. And you know, after the wreckage is cleared, 0:29:29.600 --> 0:29:35.120 how government deliver services, we should imagine doing it better. 0:29:35.680 --> 0:29:38.000 Then it's that it's been done. But Trump's in to 0:29:38.120 --> 0:29:42.040 do a lot of damage, and the Democrats are going 0:29:42.040 --> 0:29:45.640 to have to, I think, step into the future with 0:29:45.760 --> 0:29:50.400 an agenda that says, at a at a very basic level, 0:29:52.160 --> 0:29:55.000 that we're the reform party in this country. We're the 0:29:55.040 --> 0:29:58.600 renewal party in this country. We're the freedom party in 0:29:58.640 --> 0:30:02.240 this country. And we hear the electorate loud and clear. 0:30:02.320 --> 0:30:04.640 And the Democrats are going to have to leave some 0:30:04.760 --> 0:30:08.880 baggage behind because they have a national approval level of 0:30:08.920 --> 0:30:12.240 twenty five percent uh and they have a lot of 0:30:12.320 --> 0:30:15.760 dysfunction in in a lot of places, like for example, 0:30:15.840 --> 0:30:20.040 New York City in the country right now in this moment. 0:30:20.200 --> 0:30:24.120 But when when you think of everything that's going on 0:30:24.200 --> 0:30:28.360 Are you optimistic, are you are you pessimistic? Or are 0:30:28.440 --> 0:30:31.840 you kind of in the in the middle. Right now, my. 0:30:32.400 --> 0:30:36.640 Nature is to naturally be optimistic. And this is not 0:30:36.840 --> 0:30:41.360 like some Stephen Pinker stuff. But there are large broad 0:30:41.440 --> 0:30:46.520 ways in which life has gotten better on average over 0:30:46.560 --> 0:30:48.320 the last however many years. 0:30:48.720 --> 0:30:51.680 Now, that's a separate. 0:30:51.360 --> 0:30:54.480 The trajectory on that can be pretty long, and so 0:30:54.600 --> 0:30:57.320 that's a very different question than am I optimistic about 0:30:57.320 --> 0:31:00.280 the next two years, the next four years, in the 0:31:00.280 --> 0:31:02.680 next eight And I do think that the answer there 0:31:02.760 --> 0:31:06.840 is it depends I do. I am still naturally optimistic 0:31:06.840 --> 0:31:09.560 about the longer term right if we're talking about decades 0:31:09.680 --> 0:31:12.880 or longer, But the next two, four and eight years 0:31:13.560 --> 0:31:17.040 are going to depend on some pretty nuts and bolt stuff. 0:31:17.080 --> 0:31:18.920 It's not broadly theoretical. 0:31:19.040 --> 0:31:22.040 It's as we were talking about, can the Democratic Party 0:31:22.480 --> 0:31:28.440 put together something more actionable and attractive than Trump's bad again? 0:31:28.680 --> 0:31:31.960 Let's get rid of him again. The pendulum. There is 0:31:31.960 --> 0:31:34.760 a sort of pendulum swing in American politics, and we 0:31:34.800 --> 0:31:37.000 see that based on what usually happens in the first 0:31:37.000 --> 0:31:39.480 midterm after a new party takes the White House. So 0:31:39.520 --> 0:31:41.719 we know, like the math of that, the algebra of that, 0:31:42.360 --> 0:31:44.680 but that's just enough for the pendulum to swing back 0:31:44.680 --> 0:31:47.040 and forth, and it keeps swinging a little further and 0:31:47.080 --> 0:31:49.280 further to the right every time that it swings. So 0:31:49.880 --> 0:31:52.800 that's a question for the next two for six and 0:31:52.880 --> 0:31:56.480 eight years, right like the next four major elections. The 0:31:56.560 --> 0:31:59.560 technology and privacy issue that you brought up, I'm going 0:31:59.600 --> 0:32:02.720 to incline AI in that because it's so relevant right now. 0:32:03.440 --> 0:32:08.880 That's another major question mark. It's socioculturally relevant, and I've 0:32:08.880 --> 0:32:11.040 been reading a ton of that. I have friends who 0:32:11.080 --> 0:32:14.680 are college professors who have said that their work right now, 0:32:14.800 --> 0:32:19.120 the dynamic in college right now is students using AI 0:32:19.760 --> 0:32:24.040 in ways they believe will be undetectable, with professors using 0:32:24.080 --> 0:32:28.360 AI to detect student use of AI. It's sort of 0:32:28.440 --> 0:32:31.440 like turtles all the way down, as Stephen Hawking used 0:32:31.440 --> 0:32:34.360 to say. So that's like socioculturally, I think the AI 0:32:34.480 --> 0:32:37.040 question is really important, but also from a government perspective 0:32:37.040 --> 0:32:41.400 and what it means for facial recognition and pre crime, 0:32:41.440 --> 0:32:43.920 as Philip K. Dick wrote about in Minority Report, et cetera. 0:32:44.040 --> 0:32:46.880 So I think including that in one of these kind 0:32:46.920 --> 0:32:51.720 of big two to eight year considerations is hugely important 0:32:51.720 --> 0:32:52.120 as well. 0:32:55.440 --> 0:33:01.400 The two other things that are that are going on. 0:33:02.720 --> 0:33:05.760 We have this month the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary 0:33:05.760 --> 0:33:11.280 of the US Army. It occurs on Flag Day, and 0:33:11.360 --> 0:33:14.320 this is also Trump's birthday, and we're going to have 0:33:14.320 --> 0:33:18.640 a Kim johng Un parade, probably the greatest desecration in 0:33:18.680 --> 0:33:23.160 the history of the armed forces. This is taking place 0:33:24.200 --> 0:33:27.880 over here. And then the other thing that we're seeing 0:33:28.240 --> 0:33:38.000 is the dismantling of America's science economy, the linkages between universities, 0:33:38.280 --> 0:33:46.840 research institutions. And one thing that is hard for me 0:33:47.040 --> 0:33:49.800 to wrap my head around, but I accept this, and 0:33:50.040 --> 0:33:53.440 I wonder if you think I'm overstating this at all, 0:33:53.840 --> 0:34:02.160 is that I was really blown away by the web 0:34:02.400 --> 0:34:08.920 telescope when it was launched and the technology. When you 0:34:09.000 --> 0:34:11.440 think about that's it, that's the that's the that's the 0:34:11.480 --> 0:34:16.360 most sophisticated piece of technology that that human beings have 0:34:16.440 --> 0:34:19.759 ever made in all of human civilization. We launched it 0:34:19.840 --> 0:34:24.280 into space and it can literally see back to the 0:34:24.360 --> 0:34:30.160 beginning of time. It's a it's an extraordinary scientific instrument 0:34:30.480 --> 0:34:35.680 of discovery. And this was never my thing. That's why 0:34:35.680 --> 0:34:40.000 I went into politics, right You know math and science, 0:34:40.080 --> 0:34:46.000 but having an appreciation for people that are curing diseases, 0:34:47.200 --> 0:34:55.000 that are fighting cancers, brilliant people that don't get famous 0:34:55.080 --> 0:34:58.200 doing this, most of them don't get rich doing this. 0:34:58.440 --> 0:35:07.440 But this upward trajectory of progress the clear notion. And 0:35:07.520 --> 0:35:10.240 I know this, right, I'm fifty four. I know people 0:35:10.960 --> 0:35:16.960 that have died, for example, ten fifteen years ago of melanoma, 0:35:18.160 --> 0:35:21.720 that would have lived today, right, or would have lived 0:35:21.760 --> 0:35:25.160 through some other type of type of cancer. And when 0:35:25.200 --> 0:35:29.319 you look at what Robert Kennedy's doing, and when you 0:35:29.360 --> 0:35:32.520 look at what his henchman calli Means is doing, Cally 0:35:32.680 --> 0:35:37.880 Means in the subject of a Vanity Fair profile where 0:35:38.080 --> 0:35:42.759 this is the architect of the Maha Report, and the 0:35:42.800 --> 0:35:47.400 Maha Report turns out to be written by artificial intelligence 0:35:47.480 --> 0:35:51.520 with all manner of fake reports and all manner of 0:35:51.560 --> 0:35:55.480 fake citations attached to it, and Calli Means in this 0:35:55.640 --> 0:35:59.680 Vanity Fair story is identified as almost having a completely 0:35:59.719 --> 0:36:03.279 fraud joint background. He does he was my assistant back 0:36:03.320 --> 0:36:05.560 in the day. So all the things that he says 0:36:05.600 --> 0:36:09.320 he did, he didn't do. He's a fabulous, like a 0:36:09.440 --> 0:36:15.200 George Santos type character. And yet though it's been reported 0:36:15.239 --> 0:36:20.239 in Vanity Fair and this person is architecting health policy 0:36:20.280 --> 0:36:24.640 and he's a fraud. And The New York Times reported 0:36:24.680 --> 0:36:28.239 as fact two weeks ago in a profile that this 0:36:28.320 --> 0:36:31.880 guy did this, this, and that, and he didn't and 0:36:31.920 --> 0:36:41.319 they haven't corrected it. He's deeply worrying that you realize 0:36:41.520 --> 0:36:49.239 that the forward progress of human civilization scientifically, at least 0:36:49.239 --> 0:36:55.600 in this country, has come to its forward apergy, right, 0:36:55.640 --> 0:37:00.840 and it's falling back right. The science that's being wrecked, 0:37:00.920 --> 0:37:08.760 the studies being ended, the dismantling of all of these 0:37:08.800 --> 0:37:14.920 things by people who have no qualification whatsoever to do them, 0:37:15.560 --> 0:37:21.360 think require a democratic party that can speak to them 0:37:21.880 --> 0:37:26.520 and talk about the necessity of scientific progress, kind of 0:37:26.560 --> 0:37:31.120 that long arc of human progress, and to talk about 0:37:31.160 --> 0:37:35.440 it in a political context is a choice for the 0:37:35.520 --> 0:37:39.360 society because because when you have the number of rural 0:37:39.400 --> 0:37:43.560 hospitals that are going to close and everything that's going 0:37:43.640 --> 0:37:45.759 to happen in the next in the next two years, 0:37:45.760 --> 0:37:47.440 it's going to get tough for a lot of people 0:37:47.480 --> 0:37:50.400 out there, including a lot of Trump voters, you know. 0:37:50.440 --> 0:37:53.080 And one of the real tragedies of this also is 0:37:53.120 --> 0:37:56.560 that there are some characters that have gotten pulled into 0:37:56.600 --> 0:38:01.040 this whole Maha orbit who actually do have interesting things 0:38:01.080 --> 0:38:03.960 to say. I mean, I think Marty mcarey, for example, 0:38:04.120 --> 0:38:05.160 FDA Commissioner. 0:38:05.840 --> 0:38:08.719 He wrote a book in which he brings. 0:38:08.560 --> 0:38:11.360 Up a lot of really interesting things about our healthcare system. 0:38:11.440 --> 0:38:14.160 One example, which was relevant to me as somebody who 0:38:14.200 --> 0:38:18.520 had my appendix out, is that in the US the 0:38:18.840 --> 0:38:22.480 er system loves appendectomies, and that the truth is eighty 0:38:22.480 --> 0:38:25.040 five percent of them you can treat with antibiotics and 0:38:25.080 --> 0:38:27.239 it doesn't come back. You're not at increased risk for 0:38:27.360 --> 0:38:29.960 ultimately ending up with the appendectomy anyway. That's like a 0:38:30.000 --> 0:38:34.600 real tangible issue. Another one, American healthcare system loves c sections, 0:38:34.960 --> 0:38:38.479 and even though other countries have figured out even after 0:38:38.520 --> 0:38:41.840 one C section, most women are still candidates for a 0:38:41.920 --> 0:38:45.720 natural birth in the US. Very quick to see section 0:38:45.840 --> 0:38:50.400 like these are really good, interesting conversations based in building 0:38:50.480 --> 0:38:54.480 science up over periods of time that Marty McCarey wrote about. 0:38:54.520 --> 0:38:55.920 And then now you know he's on. 0:38:55.960 --> 0:38:59.959 With Margaret Brennan three minutes apart saying we can't trust 0:39:00.080 --> 0:39:03.359 CDC data and believe me because I'm using CDC data 0:39:03.440 --> 0:39:05.680 right in the same interview three minutes apart, and Margaret 0:39:05.680 --> 0:39:09.480 Brennan's head is spinning. It's the debasement even of people 0:39:09.480 --> 0:39:12.080 who actually do have interesting things to say, And as 0:39:12.120 --> 0:39:16.319 you're pointing out, also the elevation while experts are criticized 0:39:16.840 --> 0:39:20.800 experts with real expertise, the elevation to expert status of 0:39:20.880 --> 0:39:23.880 people who have no business actually making policy. 0:39:24.440 --> 0:39:25.520 It's a disaster. 0:39:30.160 --> 0:39:34.799 What do you say about it? How do you engage 0:39:34.840 --> 0:39:35.680 that issue? 0:39:37.239 --> 0:39:40.160 I try to engage it with this approach. 0:39:41.160 --> 0:39:44.520 If a thirty, forty, fifty sixty year old wants to 0:39:44.560 --> 0:39:47.160 dig in on a TikTok or YouTube stream with me 0:39:47.239 --> 0:39:50.120 about any one of these issues, I'll argue with them 0:39:50.160 --> 0:39:53.000 in the sense that I'll plead my case. I'll try 0:39:53.040 --> 0:39:55.160 to explain to them why my view is different, why 0:39:55.160 --> 0:39:58.239 I believe their view isn't informed by science. That's like 0:39:58.280 --> 0:40:01.120 the retail strategy. Though, how many people can I really 0:40:01.200 --> 0:40:01.520 argue with? 0:40:01.680 --> 0:40:01.839 Right? 0:40:03.080 --> 0:40:07.640 I tie it back more to a culture that is 0:40:07.760 --> 0:40:12.120 lacking a sort of reverence for critical thinking and epistemology 0:40:12.239 --> 0:40:15.839 and debate and discussing why do we believe the things 0:40:15.880 --> 0:40:18.799 we believe? And so there's a cultural aspect, but it's 0:40:18.960 --> 0:40:24.319 inextricably intertwined with education policy, where we really should be 0:40:24.360 --> 0:40:28.240 teaching basic media literacy and critical thinking in every school, 0:40:28.520 --> 0:40:31.160 probably starting at age eight. You could make a case 0:40:31.200 --> 0:40:33.960 for six. Some people say not to middle school, but 0:40:35.360 --> 0:40:39.239 certainly in every school. And it's much harder to get 0:40:39.280 --> 0:40:42.160 people to think in this way once they've not been 0:40:42.160 --> 0:40:44.520 thinking this way for thirty forty fifty years. And so 0:40:44.600 --> 0:40:47.720 that's why I think it really is an educational issue. 0:40:47.719 --> 0:40:49.000 And I'll say one other thing about it. 0:40:49.080 --> 0:40:51.400 Sometimes when I say this, I'll hear from teachers or 0:40:51.440 --> 0:40:54.799 school administrators who say, David, you really shouldn't be blaming us, 0:40:54.840 --> 0:40:56.600 like we know what needs to happen. And I'm not 0:40:56.600 --> 0:41:00.120 blaming them because to a great degree they are construyi 0:41:00.360 --> 0:41:04.800 by the system that elected officials and sometimes on elected 0:41:04.840 --> 0:41:06.400 officials have put together. 0:41:06.560 --> 0:41:09.160 So this is not a criticism of teachers. This is 0:41:09.200 --> 0:41:11.000 a criticism of a system. 0:41:10.600 --> 0:41:13.720 That has stripped some of these building blocks of knowledge 0:41:14.360 --> 0:41:15.400 from public education. 0:41:17.880 --> 0:41:24.040 Overwhelmingly. To me, the most impressive Democrat in the country 0:41:24.080 --> 0:41:26.200 when I when i'm when I kind of look at 0:41:26.280 --> 0:41:34.680 them is Jake Auchincloss, who is the thirty eight is 0:41:34.920 --> 0:41:40.360 thirty nine forty year old Democratic congressman from from Massachusetts, and. 0:41:40.840 --> 0:41:42.600 I've had I've had him on and I find him 0:41:42.719 --> 0:41:43.440 very impressive. 0:41:44.160 --> 0:41:47.759 He's very impressive, and he knows, he knows what he 0:41:47.880 --> 0:41:52.560 wants to do and where he wants the lead. I 0:41:52.600 --> 0:41:55.880 have no idea if he wants to run for president, 0:41:56.040 --> 0:42:00.080 but you know, he's somebody that should be in the 0:42:00.120 --> 0:42:03.640 category of thinking about it and saying a lot of 0:42:03.719 --> 0:42:08.279 interesting things. That's right of a of a new generation 0:42:08.520 --> 0:42:13.160 that has some vision on some of these issues that 0:42:14.080 --> 0:42:18.560 the country's going to have to reckon with over the 0:42:18.600 --> 0:42:22.080 next over the next decade, over the next twenty, over 0:42:22.080 --> 0:42:28.280 the next twenty years. But I look at this through 0:42:29.200 --> 0:42:33.520 a bunch of different lenses, you know, and I wrestle with, 0:42:34.160 --> 0:42:39.000 you know, being pessimistic at times, you know, when I 0:42:39.040 --> 0:42:43.320 when I think about this, But I have a faith 0:42:43.640 --> 0:42:47.680 that the good guys win, and the good guys doesn't 0:42:47.719 --> 0:42:52.480 mean Chuck Schumer right. It means that the forces that 0:42:52.560 --> 0:42:56.600 support American liberty right, that we that we as a 0:42:56.640 --> 0:43:00.399 country make it through this era. But but but how 0:43:00.440 --> 0:43:04.640 does it end? Right? How does this? How does this 0:43:06.760 --> 0:43:12.839 how does this fever break? How do you see it expiring? 0:43:16.200 --> 0:43:22.200 The decompression going on where people take a step back 0:43:23.520 --> 0:43:28.360 in the country from the madness. 0:43:28.880 --> 0:43:33.640 So I'll give you my ninety percent vision, and then 0:43:33.680 --> 0:43:36.319 I'll give you my ten percent vision, less likely but 0:43:36.440 --> 0:43:39.160 probably still just as effective. So my ninety percent vision 0:43:39.280 --> 0:43:43.799 is that much the way that empires often fall or 0:43:43.880 --> 0:43:47.840 technology advances. When you're in the middle of the change, 0:43:47.880 --> 0:43:50.800 you often don't realize that the change is taking place. 0:43:51.440 --> 0:43:53.920 I think that there's examples of this for the bad. 0:43:53.960 --> 0:43:56.480 If we think back to Trump, as he likes to say, 0:43:56.480 --> 0:43:58.839 coming down the Golden escalator in twenty twenty five, It's 0:43:58.840 --> 0:44:03.080 been almost a decade, and so much has happened in 0:44:03.080 --> 0:44:07.319 this decade, and also typically from week to week, it 0:44:07.360 --> 0:44:09.359 doesn't feel like that much change, although the last two 0:44:09.400 --> 0:44:12.600 months it does because we're seeing unprecedented thing after unprecedented thing. 0:44:12.640 --> 0:44:16.239 But the idea here is I think the fever is 0:44:16.440 --> 0:44:19.719 likely to break relatively slowly, and it will have a 0:44:19.719 --> 0:44:23.560 lot of components. At some point, the Republican Party will 0:44:23.560 --> 0:44:26.640 move on from Trump. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll move 0:44:26.680 --> 0:44:29.160 on from trump Ism, and that sort of will depend 0:44:29.239 --> 0:44:33.239 on sort of what level of satisfaction the Republican Party 0:44:33.239 --> 0:44:35.919 has with Trump whenever his term ends. Either because it's 0:44:35.960 --> 0:44:38.240 been four years, or because he passes away, or whatever 0:44:38.320 --> 0:44:40.640 comes to be. So I think at some point the 0:44:40.640 --> 0:44:42.560 party will move on from Trump. They might stick with 0:44:42.600 --> 0:44:45.880 a MAGA type candidate or maybe not, but Trump himself 0:44:45.880 --> 0:44:50.799 will be gone. I think that as we see, hopefully 0:44:51.440 --> 0:44:56.319 the recognition from voters of how their vote relates to 0:44:56.400 --> 0:45:00.239 the things that happen in their communities, either through the 0:45:00.239 --> 0:45:05.560 federal government directly or governorships, etc. I think that slowly, hopefully, 0:45:05.600 --> 0:45:07.960 as the country has seen for the last hundred years, 0:45:08.360 --> 0:45:10.800 it will continue moving in what someone with my political 0:45:10.840 --> 0:45:12.280 beliefs believes is the right direction. 0:45:12.400 --> 0:45:14.319 Now, of course, there are people if. 0:45:14.200 --> 0:45:16.080 Your political views are different, you may disagree with that. 0:45:16.440 --> 0:45:19.920 If we look back one hundred years on every serious question, 0:45:20.440 --> 0:45:23.200 should we tax the very rich to ensure that the 0:45:23.239 --> 0:45:25.360 poor don't fall below a certain standard of living? 0:45:25.520 --> 0:45:26.640 Should abortion be legal? 0:45:26.640 --> 0:45:30.680 In most cases we've seen not extreme left, but a 0:45:30.800 --> 0:45:33.359 sort of move steadily to the left. So I think 0:45:33.400 --> 0:45:36.839 as that continues, and then here's the maybe part of it. 0:45:37.480 --> 0:45:41.000 If we can do something about how our politics is 0:45:41.120 --> 0:45:45.919 funded and how elections are run, which is a big ask, 0:45:46.000 --> 0:45:47.759 and we can go into detail about it or not 0:45:48.560 --> 0:45:54.120 hopefully elected officials will more closely reflect the political beliefs 0:45:54.120 --> 0:45:56.400 of the country because one of the things that we 0:45:56.440 --> 0:45:58.640 see time and time again due to a combination of 0:45:58.640 --> 0:46:02.400 how you raise money and Jerry maandering, if you place 0:46:02.480 --> 0:46:06.480 the American electorate on the political spectrum, the elected officials 0:46:06.480 --> 0:46:09.399 are to the right. And so if we can get 0:46:09.600 --> 0:46:13.319 elected officials more aligned with where people are through the 0:46:13.360 --> 0:46:17.320 reforms that I talk about, I think it will slowly 0:46:17.760 --> 0:46:18.560 break the fever. 0:46:18.680 --> 0:46:20.280 Now that's my ninety percent explanation. 0:46:20.400 --> 0:46:23.360 My ten percent is if Trump drops dead in like 0:46:23.480 --> 0:46:27.399 nine months, I think there's a chance that they go, 0:46:28.000 --> 0:46:30.520 that was really crazy, let's do something different here. 0:46:30.800 --> 0:46:31.520 And then jd. 0:46:31.680 --> 0:46:35.400 Vance is pushed to be like not really Trumpian that 0:46:35.440 --> 0:46:37.319 I don't believe that's the most likely outcome, but it 0:46:37.400 --> 0:46:38.680 is sort of like in the back of my mind 0:46:38.680 --> 0:46:39.520 as a possibility. 0:46:43.800 --> 0:46:48.200 I think that I think that one of the things 0:46:48.280 --> 0:46:52.200 that is going to have to happen is for there 0:46:52.400 --> 0:46:57.480 to be a lot of economic pain. Unfortunately that is 0:46:57.520 --> 0:47:01.080 both coming and is going to be help in order 0:47:01.239 --> 0:47:08.120 to in order to break the madness. But nobody who's 0:47:08.120 --> 0:47:11.080 gotten in business with Trump has ever come out of 0:47:11.080 --> 0:47:15.600 the deal happy and you know, So that's that's one 0:47:15.680 --> 0:47:16.680 aspect of it. 0:47:17.760 --> 0:47:21.359 But Steve, just on that one question, do you think 0:47:21.440 --> 0:47:24.040 the voters would blame the right people for that? And 0:47:24.120 --> 0:47:27.879 the reason I asked that is when Obama did Obamacare 0:47:28.840 --> 0:47:32.480 and offered these medicaid expansions to the states and some 0:47:32.520 --> 0:47:36.920 Republican governors didn't take the expansion, voters in those states 0:47:36.960 --> 0:47:40.600 often believed it's Obama's fault even though it was their 0:47:40.600 --> 0:47:43.200 governor's fault. So my only question on that is will 0:47:43.280 --> 0:47:46.480 people blame the right parties for that economic pain? 0:47:50.600 --> 0:47:54.960 I don't know. Right there's been such a disenfranchisement of 0:47:55.040 --> 0:48:00.120 so many places, so many states by the National Democratic Party. 0:48:00.120 --> 0:48:02.560 But at the end of the day, I don't think 0:48:02.640 --> 0:48:08.640 people will countenance the corruption and the craziness. Though I 0:48:08.680 --> 0:48:11.440 think that there's a lot of rope left to be 0:48:11.960 --> 0:48:15.560 uh let out on the tolerance piece, I don't I 0:48:15.640 --> 0:48:19.040 don't think people are consuming news like we are. I 0:48:19.080 --> 0:48:22.280 think that there's a lot of things that they're seeing 0:48:22.320 --> 0:48:26.160 that they don't like. The you know, polling reflects that. 0:48:26.480 --> 0:48:30.200 But you know, in the in the end, I think 0:48:30.280 --> 0:48:35.960 that uh, this has to play out now in a 0:48:36.040 --> 0:48:40.319 way that gets to a pretty unhappy result for a 0:48:40.320 --> 0:48:44.560 lot of people. You know, I think I think Trump 0:48:44.680 --> 0:48:47.759 is Trump is a world class demagogue. None of this 0:48:48.000 --> 0:48:50.920 is on the none of this is on the level. 0:48:51.200 --> 0:48:57.239 And he's going to break the economy and you will 0:48:57.280 --> 0:49:01.319 just have to see how people people react to it. 0:49:01.400 --> 0:49:06.200 But I but I think that Democrats have to understand 0:49:06.520 --> 0:49:10.239 that they have a lot of work to do. That's 0:49:10.280 --> 0:49:11.880 for sure, a lot of they have a lot of 0:49:11.920 --> 0:49:15.800 work to do, and that and that work is about 0:49:15.920 --> 0:49:19.200 kind of facing the reforms that are necessary. Right, So 0:49:19.680 --> 0:49:22.120 if you're if you're running against the corrupt party, you 0:49:22.160 --> 0:49:25.000 got to be the anti corruption party. You can't be 0:49:25.120 --> 0:49:27.880 the party that holds the position it's only corruption if 0:49:27.880 --> 0:49:32.400 Trump does it right without a doubt, I mean, and 0:49:32.440 --> 0:49:35.080 that's the that's the that's the key, that's the key 0:49:35.160 --> 0:49:36.840 to getting out of this. Have to be better. 0:49:37.600 --> 0:49:41.120 I do think that if Democrats can at least just 0:49:41.239 --> 0:49:45.879 take the House in November of twenty six, that would 0:49:45.960 --> 0:49:49.239 be a pretty solid potential bulwark for the last two 0:49:49.320 --> 0:49:52.680 years of Trump's presidency, and it could create enough of 0:49:52.680 --> 0:49:56.319 a springboard towards figuring some things out, as you're pointing out, 0:49:56.800 --> 0:49:58.640 and momentum into twenty twenty eight, but I don't think 0:49:58.640 --> 0:50:00.239 that's a guarantee by any means. 0:50:00.480 --> 0:50:03.320 You know. I listen, I think Democrats will take the House, 0:50:04.120 --> 0:50:07.080 and I think that they will that they will potentially 0:50:07.160 --> 0:50:10.040 take the Senate, and I don't think there's necessarily going 0:50:10.080 --> 0:50:13.040 to be a safe seat in the country. But I 0:50:13.080 --> 0:50:16.399 think that a lot of the electoral energy is going 0:50:16.440 --> 0:50:21.120 to be against the Democratic leadership and the Democratic status quo. 0:50:21.400 --> 0:50:21.640 Right. 0:50:22.040 --> 0:50:27.000 I think that the DSCC is recruiting candidates to go 0:50:27.080 --> 0:50:30.200 out and to support Chuck Schumer to be leader for 0:50:30.280 --> 0:50:33.560 two more years. And I think the candidates that are 0:50:33.560 --> 0:50:35.960 going to matter in this election cycle are the ones 0:50:36.000 --> 0:50:39.800 that have the guts and the integrity Democratic side to say, listen, 0:50:40.000 --> 0:50:42.560 he's not a dishonorable guy, but he's not the right 0:50:42.680 --> 0:50:47.000 leader for this moment. He's been weak and inteffectual, and 0:50:47.040 --> 0:50:50.279 he appeased Trump for the first months of the term. 0:50:50.520 --> 0:50:53.960 And that's a reason we have all these crazy cabinet secretaries. 0:50:54.320 --> 0:50:56.840 And we would have been much better off if we fought. 0:50:57.680 --> 0:51:02.360 Schumer made a catastrophic decision and earlier in the deal. 0:51:02.719 --> 0:51:06.360 And no right my state, whether it's in Texas, whether 0:51:06.360 --> 0:51:10.080 it's a Volcana wherever the state is that know, the 0:51:10.160 --> 0:51:13.480 people there, my Democrats in our state, we want to 0:51:13.560 --> 0:51:17.600 change and and I think that driving that change energy 0:51:18.360 --> 0:51:23.600 with a real agenda. You know, for example, all of 0:51:23.640 --> 0:51:29.760 these oligarchs, and they are of the biggest tech companies 0:51:29.760 --> 0:51:33.000 in the world, have concentrated too much power and wealth. Right, 0:51:33.040 --> 0:51:37.680 There's been a concentration of power and wealth and a 0:51:37.800 --> 0:51:43.280 cruel that happens, you know every you know generational cycle 0:51:43.360 --> 0:51:46.759 I suppose, or several generational in America, maybe every eighty 0:51:46.880 --> 0:51:49.600 years or so in the history of the country. It's 0:51:49.600 --> 0:51:53.279 got to be broken up. And it's occurred before in 0:51:53.480 --> 0:51:57.759 the same philosophies that broke it up have to have 0:51:57.840 --> 0:52:03.520 to confront this accumulation of power again. And that's what 0:52:03.600 --> 0:52:07.239 Democrats have to be for. Can't be a party of platitudes. 0:52:07.280 --> 0:52:10.840 It's got to be a party of policy and fierceness 0:52:11.600 --> 0:52:16.200 in defending Americanism and so like the allergy of the 0:52:16.239 --> 0:52:19.799 American flag and raising it high and saying what we 0:52:19.920 --> 0:52:24.839 share in common, right is not racial identities. It's an 0:52:24.880 --> 0:52:28.239 American identity that's open to all of us. And I 0:52:28.239 --> 0:52:31.520 think Democrats have to get into that space as quickly 0:52:31.560 --> 0:52:34.719 as they as they can in order to be successful 0:52:34.760 --> 0:52:36.120 again as a national party. 0:52:36.960 --> 0:52:40.920 I think that's right, and I also I always caveat 0:52:40.960 --> 0:52:43.600 this by saying I don't bring this up because I 0:52:43.640 --> 0:52:46.480 think it's the most serious thing, and I think sometimes 0:52:46.480 --> 0:52:49.680 it's a problem when we pretend it is. But I 0:52:49.719 --> 0:52:52.880 think that the Democratic Party also needs to figure out 0:52:53.440 --> 0:52:57.720 how to not be republican light which has not worked, 0:52:58.480 --> 0:53:04.839 but also not to really appear to be placating the 0:53:05.040 --> 0:53:08.360 fringe left. And I call it fringe rather than extreme, 0:53:08.440 --> 0:53:10.640 because I think it is really a minority. It's a 0:53:10.760 --> 0:53:13.439 very loud minority if you spend time, especially on social 0:53:13.520 --> 0:53:17.040 media platforms. And one of the problems within the Democratic 0:53:17.040 --> 0:53:19.000 Party it's not really it's both a feature and a 0:53:19.040 --> 0:53:22.160 bug in the sense that people are doing it because 0:53:22.160 --> 0:53:24.560 they're engaged, but also it can be an electoral problem. 0:53:24.640 --> 0:53:29.400 Is the purity testing of there's one idea that's too center. 0:53:29.960 --> 0:53:32.799 I'm staying Homer voting third party, there's one idea that's 0:53:32.800 --> 0:53:36.680 too left. I'm staying Homer voting third party the Maga Party. 0:53:37.360 --> 0:53:40.520 Once they win, it's a mess. But to win elections 0:53:41.120 --> 0:53:44.080 you have a hesitation about a Democrat, come on in, 0:53:44.200 --> 0:53:46.719 you're welcomed with open arms. And if you've got a 0:53:46.719 --> 0:53:48.960 big Twitter following, you're invited to mar A Lago. And 0:53:49.040 --> 0:53:51.360 that instinct I think would be really good to develop. 0:53:51.400 --> 0:53:55.560 On the left, there's you know when you talk about 0:53:55.600 --> 0:53:59.719 the fringe left, and it's exactly that's exactly it. In 0:53:59.760 --> 0:54:07.240 the reality of it is there's no chance the fringe 0:54:07.360 --> 0:54:12.680 left could ever take political power in America, but they're 0:54:12.800 --> 0:54:19.520 loud enough to drive demand for an extreme right. And 0:54:19.600 --> 0:54:25.280 so America was never susceptible to a dictatorship of the left. 0:54:25.360 --> 0:54:29.960 It's always been susceptible to a dictatorship of the right. 0:54:30.640 --> 0:54:34.879 And that's why that old apocryphal quote about if fascism 0:54:34.960 --> 0:54:38.239 comes to America, it'll be wrapped in the flag and 0:54:38.360 --> 0:54:43.759 carrying the cross, and it's an important element to understand. 0:54:44.080 --> 0:54:47.520 And so, you know, I would make the argument that, 0:54:47.719 --> 0:54:51.520 for example, the new mayor of San Francisco is doing 0:54:51.560 --> 0:54:55.480 a terrific job, and the last mayor and the last 0:54:55.520 --> 0:54:59.319 district attorney did a lot to help Donald Trump. And 0:55:00.280 --> 0:55:04.120 you had pro crime district attorneys in some of the 0:55:04.160 --> 0:55:07.440 biggest cities in the in the country who were off 0:55:07.480 --> 0:55:12.000 the wall, and people don't want it. The open air 0:55:12.080 --> 0:55:16.800 drug markets, the sense of disorder, and so they become 0:55:17.200 --> 0:55:24.000 easily picked off by demagogic candidate like Trump. And you know, 0:55:24.200 --> 0:55:27.080 at the end of the day, you know, there's a 0:55:27.640 --> 0:55:31.680 cohort of Democrats that are terrific at giving lectures telling 0:55:31.719 --> 0:55:34.600 people what they can think about, what they could say, 0:55:35.040 --> 0:55:38.640 what words they can use, what phrases can be used. 0:55:39.000 --> 0:55:43.000 And it may it may have an appeal to somebody 0:55:43.040 --> 0:55:45.680 out there, but there's a lot of people it just 0:55:45.760 --> 0:55:50.280 triggers their fuck you response. And the person who's capitalized 0:55:50.320 --> 0:55:54.000 on that has been Trump, And so you know, to me, 0:55:54.120 --> 0:55:58.440 it's depressingly you read stories about Democrats just commissioned a 0:55:58.480 --> 0:56:03.200 twenty million dollar study to learn how to talk to men, right, 0:56:03.200 --> 0:56:08.359 who are fifty percent of the human population, And so 0:56:08.440 --> 0:56:11.719 you just hope the party gets gets in touch and 0:56:12.600 --> 0:56:15.680 you know, can find its way to normalcy, right because 0:56:15.680 --> 0:56:19.880 there's scores of tens of millions of normal people in 0:56:19.920 --> 0:56:25.239 this country right who can look at issues authentically and 0:56:25.360 --> 0:56:29.800 honestly and clearly that range a spectrum from your moderate 0:56:29.880 --> 0:56:33.960 Democrat to your progressive Democrat that can relate to real life, 0:56:34.080 --> 0:56:38.160 real people, real situations, and look in the praise this 0:56:38.320 --> 0:56:41.239 moment in time, and I think address it with the 0:56:41.320 --> 0:56:45.000 utmost seriousness, and there's lots of examples out there, but 0:56:45.200 --> 0:56:51.040 it just hasn't coagulated into a coherence for the party 0:56:51.080 --> 0:56:53.960 as a whole, as a unit, as a leadership. You know, 0:56:54.040 --> 0:56:56.680 for instance, I have no idea why there's not a 0:56:56.760 --> 0:57:04.120 daily news conference where people go out and respond across 0:57:04.160 --> 0:57:07.600 the broad spectrum that use some humor to tell some jokes, 0:57:08.160 --> 0:57:14.080 but participate in the theater that is necessary to participate in, 0:57:14.200 --> 0:57:18.000 because at the core, we're fighting an information war, and 0:57:18.520 --> 0:57:23.520 that's what is a huge deficit I think and comprehension 0:57:23.640 --> 0:57:27.160 by a lot of the Democrats facing off against Trump 0:57:27.240 --> 0:57:30.680 is an appreciation for the nature of the fight they're in, 0:57:31.440 --> 0:57:34.880 and a lot of people are frustrated about it. I 0:57:34.880 --> 0:57:36.800 know a lot of people in my audience. 0:57:36.360 --> 0:57:38.760 Are, yeah, I know, I was same with mine, and 0:57:39.360 --> 0:57:41.960 you know, I was sort of chuckling to myself sadly 0:57:42.640 --> 0:57:46.160 when I started seeing these instances of people like Schumer 0:57:46.200 --> 0:57:51.800 and others introducing swear words in a completely very obviously 0:57:51.840 --> 0:57:55.160 calculated and contrived way, as if that might be a 0:57:55.200 --> 0:57:58.200 communication tactic to use, you know, But on the on 0:57:58.280 --> 0:58:00.480 the speaking too, men thing. I don't know how many 0:58:00.520 --> 0:58:03.360 people in your audience are familiar with Scott Galloway, but 0:58:03.440 --> 0:58:08.240 I think the way that he's been communicating is nothing's perfect, 0:58:08.280 --> 0:58:11.000 nothing's an exact model, but I think it serves a 0:58:11.040 --> 0:58:15.439 lot to just point to. Here is how someone who 0:58:15.800 --> 0:58:20.200 unquestionably fits into the MAGA definition of what it means 0:58:20.200 --> 0:58:23.440 to be alpha right, the wealth and the confidence. And 0:58:23.480 --> 0:58:25.880 I think he's tall, you know, like checking out the boxes. 0:58:26.320 --> 0:58:32.080 But he's articulating in a way that is both respectful 0:58:32.480 --> 0:58:36.840 but emotionally salient ideas of the center left. I guess 0:58:37.120 --> 0:58:39.760 we would call it, and doing so extraordinarily effectively with 0:58:39.800 --> 0:58:42.640 a disproportionately male audience, I think that that should be 0:58:42.640 --> 0:58:43.120 looked at. 0:58:44.240 --> 0:58:48.640 Yeah, no doubt. Well let me we're at our hour. 0:58:49.880 --> 0:58:52.640 We've had a good crowd here, so let me give 0:58:52.680 --> 0:58:55.640 it over to you to wrap it up, to observe 0:58:55.720 --> 0:58:59.640 any last observations that you have for the night about 0:58:59.640 --> 0:59:02.520 what's happening in the country, and to gain real pleasure 0:59:02.600 --> 0:59:04.840 to get a chance to spend an hour with you. 0:59:04.920 --> 0:59:08.200 Always the always a pleasure, you know. 0:59:08.240 --> 0:59:11.280 One just little note of what I've been hearing from 0:59:11.320 --> 0:59:15.400 my audience over the last week the whole. If X wins, 0:59:15.440 --> 0:59:18.120 I'm going to move to Canada that we started hearing 0:59:18.160 --> 0:59:21.200 back in the George W. Bush days, which doesn't actually 0:59:21.240 --> 0:59:23.800 happen that often for a number of reasons, including that 0:59:23.880 --> 0:59:26.880 it's not that easy for Americans to move to Canada necessarily. 0:59:27.640 --> 0:59:31.160 I've heard from hundreds of my viewers who during I'm 0:59:31.160 --> 0:59:33.000 not going to say it's not over the last six months, 0:59:33.040 --> 0:59:36.400 but since Trump won the first time, have moved out 0:59:36.400 --> 0:59:40.840 of the United States, and they all it's self selection biased. 0:59:40.840 --> 0:59:42.480 The ones that aren't happy don't write to me, but 0:59:42.680 --> 0:59:47.600 they all articulate the ways in which they just feel better, 0:59:47.960 --> 0:59:50.760 are more positive, and feel more stable in terms of 0:59:50.800 --> 0:59:53.400 the basic building blocks of life, even if their income 0:59:53.440 --> 0:59:57.280 isn't necessarily as high on paper having moved to fill 0:59:57.320 --> 1:00:02.720 in the blanks Latin America, You're a Asia. Heard from 1:00:02.720 --> 1:00:06.960 a couple people in Africa, and it's been interesting just 1:00:07.000 --> 1:00:09.360 to hear those stories from people about people who aren't 1:00:09.360 --> 1:00:11.400 they're not threatening, they've done it, and sort of hearing 1:00:11.400 --> 1:00:12.160 what that's been like. 1:00:13.160 --> 1:00:17.200 Unbelievable time. David Pacman, thank you very much for yours 1:00:17.880 --> 1:00:18.560 Thanks for having me. 1:00:19.560 --> 1:00:22.840 I'm Steve Schmidt. This is the warning. I invite you 1:00:22.880 --> 1:00:26.120 to join this community, where I promise to be honest, 1:00:26.440 --> 1:00:30.000 blunt and direct about what is happening in this country. 1:00:30.240 --> 1:00:34.560 America is in crisis. Follow and subscribe to this channel 1:00:34.680 --> 1:00:35.720 and on substack. 1:00:35.920 --> 1:00:38.000 Thank you.