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Speaker 1: Welcome to this conversation on the Warning, and I am

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Speaker 1: really pleased to be joined by my friend David Pacman

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Speaker 1: of the David Pacman Show, one of the great independent

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Speaker 1: media broadcasts and one of the first sizeable, at scale

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Speaker 1: independent media broadcasts and substacks. And we're all following in

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Speaker 1: David's footsteps in a lot of ways. I know I've

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Speaker 1: learned a lot from him listening to them, and and

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Speaker 1: have benefited a lot as we've built the Warning community.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm really thrilled to welcome David here as

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Speaker 1: our audience grows a little bit tonight, David, welcome. I

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Speaker 1: want to I wanted to ask you, as we come

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Speaker 1: up on the one hundred and seventy five day mark

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Speaker 1: of all of this, how you see things in the circus,

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Speaker 1: the fight such as it is, the scale of wreckage

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Speaker 1: such as it is, is how I imagine it to be.

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Speaker 1: Just we'll keep expanding. And so this week today, when

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Speaker 1: you look out there, what what? What? What do you

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Speaker 1: have your eye on as most worrisome in the moment,

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Speaker 1: the thing that you look at And for me, even

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Speaker 1: though I am not surprised by anything, I still look

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Speaker 1: at it and I say wow, and experiencing it is

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Speaker 1: different than anticipating it and feeling the anxiety and the

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Speaker 1: worry and the dread is different than at It is

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Speaker 1: different in its arrival and it's and it's feeling than

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Speaker 1: anticipating it. So so what do you what do you

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Speaker 1: see when you look at out there and well, what

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Speaker 1: do you have? You're kind of oh my god, eyes

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Speaker 1: you know, drawn too right now?

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Speaker 2: So two categories, the authoritarianism and the economy and the

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Speaker 2: economic stuff. I'll start with the economic stuff because it's

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Speaker 2: sort of clearer cut.

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Speaker 3: In a way.

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Speaker 2: I've always been super honest with my audience, whether it's

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Speaker 2: a Democrat or Republican in the White House, I'm just

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Speaker 2: going to tell you what's GDP, what's unemployment? Where's the

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Speaker 2: stock market? Inflation? These sort of metrics. There are a

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Speaker 2: couple of concerning economic metrics, but a lot of them

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Speaker 2: are actually okay ish. Now, the big one that's a

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Speaker 2: concern is Q one GDP was down.

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Speaker 3: We are now in Q two.

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Speaker 2: Q two GDP may also end up being down, will

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Speaker 2: know around July twentieth and two consecutive GDP decline quarters

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Speaker 2: would be bad. But despite inflation fears inflation's actually been

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Speaker 2: stable despite unemployment fears. Unemployment's actually been stable. Gas prices

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Speaker 2: have been basically flat since Trump took over. So if

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Speaker 2: I just do like an honest assessment of the metrics

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Speaker 2: concerning signs, but some of the big indicators, okay for now,

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Speaker 2: But this tariff impact is not even close to fully

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Speaker 2: felt yet. I mean, it's are they on, are they off?

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Speaker 2: It depends on the day. What's the Okay, So the

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Speaker 2: economic stuff is concerning trajectory, okay, ish for now. The

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Speaker 2: authoritarianism bucket is extraordinarily disturbing. And there are so many

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Speaker 2: different aspects to this, and we can focus in on

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Speaker 2: any of them. But of course there's the hostility and

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Speaker 2: attacks on a free press, the ignoring of due process,

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Speaker 2: the unilateral decisions, no matter what the judiciary says, no

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Speaker 2: matter what it would mean to actually follow law and order,

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Speaker 2: unilateral actions. Also internally within the federal government, the firings,

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Speaker 2: the saying we're going to totally upend or even destroy

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Speaker 2: your kneecap entire agencies, etc. I don't have to give

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Speaker 2: you the full list, but sort of like bucket number

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Speaker 2: two is the authoritarianism bucket. I'm way more concerned there

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Speaker 2: in the immediate than I am about the economic stuff.

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Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean the economic stuff won't get much worse.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any doubt about the trajectory of where

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Speaker 1: the economic stuff goes at this point? When you look

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Speaker 1: ahead a year from now.

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Speaker 2: If the tariffs in their most extreme iteration are solidified

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Speaker 2: and start to take effect, there's no doubt whatsoever it

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Speaker 2: will be reduced hiring, higher prices, stagnant or declining, stock

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Speaker 2: market continue, GDP declines. I mean, there's just no way

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Speaker 2: you can do a blanket import tax and not have

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Speaker 2: it trickle down the way the most basic economics, whether

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Speaker 2: you follow you know, Richard Woolf for Thomas sol right,

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Speaker 2: if you just put a blanket import tax on everything,

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Speaker 2: there's really only one way that that can go. Now,

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Speaker 2: Trump and the people around him have crafted this sort

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Speaker 2: of justification, which is that may happen in the short term,

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Speaker 2: but as the supply chains are on reshort or on

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Speaker 2: short everything's going to sort itself out. The problem with

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Speaker 2: that is a lot of these industries require eight to

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Speaker 2: twelve years to reshore. Until you actually build that capacity,

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Speaker 2: everything will still cost way more. And that's not also

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Speaker 2: even feasible when it has to do with natural resources

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Speaker 2: that just aren't necessarily found geographically within American borders. So

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Speaker 2: you can't even really do that with all industries. So

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Speaker 2: that's the theoretical justification. It's not a three and a

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Speaker 2: half year possibility, which is what Trump has left, so

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Speaker 2: we know the effect will be over the next three

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Speaker 2: and a half years.

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Speaker 1: One of the things when I think about the economy

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Speaker 1: and I think about all of the rhetoric and all

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Speaker 1: of the empty promises around, really three things to me

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Speaker 1: that stand out. It's that Trump will make declarations lively

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Speaker 1: that I've landed a trillion dollar deal, seven trillion dollars

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Speaker 1: from the Emiratis, eight trillion from the Kataris, and there

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Speaker 1: won't be a dollar of this ever ever seen. I

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Speaker 1: don't think any of it is real. And when I

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Speaker 1: conjecture ahead, well, what I see is a lot of

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Speaker 1: impact that's coming, I think it's I think it's too

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Speaker 1: late too. I think it's too late to stop it.

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Speaker 1: But when Trump talks about the reshoring, the jobs and

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Speaker 1: everything that that's coming back, I think this is all nonsense, right,

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Speaker 1: none of it's real, you know. But I think about

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Speaker 1: one are the things that clearly drives Trump crazy psychologically,

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Speaker 1: and like some of Trump's behaviors, right, it's not ungrounded

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Speaker 1: in total delusion, right, I mean, it's not grounded in

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Speaker 1: total delusion. Right. He has a reason for his peak,

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Speaker 1: and it's about Air Force one. Right. So, and I

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Speaker 1: think about this and I thank god, right, or we're

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Speaker 1: in big trouble, right if this country has to fight

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Speaker 1: a war. And I don't. I don't have an answer

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Speaker 1: to this question. Truthfully, I don't know why, right, things

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Speaker 1: have gone off the rails like this in the country.

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Speaker 1: But to some degree, I think it's why Trump has

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Speaker 1: wound up as a demagogue in there. And it's that

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Speaker 1: somebody obviously told him in twenty sixteen that there's a

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Speaker 1: new Air Force one coming, right, And it's twenty twenty five, right,

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Speaker 1: and there's no new Air Force one?

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: He can't comprehend, right, why over right? The ten years? Right?

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Speaker 1: The planes not ready? Right, there's two planes and two

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Speaker 1: seven forty sevens. They can't get them ready over a decade.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's like he wants it, and I

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Speaker 1: think he cares about the stuff he wants, but it does.

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Speaker 1: But it's a legitimate question, right, White Boeing can't make

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Speaker 1: these two planes right over the over the ten years.

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Speaker 1: So when we talk about this reshoring business in the

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Speaker 1: way that Howard Ludnik talks about it, I think it's

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Speaker 1: I think it's all madness. But we'll see how it

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Speaker 1: plays out. People will feel it. The economy, as we've

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Speaker 1: talked about before, is not something that you lecture to people.

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Speaker 1: It's about how they feel about their security, about prices,

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Speaker 1: about wages, about jobs, about opportunities. So really ominous signs

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Speaker 1: in the housing market across the board. I'm real worrisome things,

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Speaker 1: but I have to I have to tell you there's

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Speaker 1: there's nothing for me right now that is more troubling

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Speaker 1: than the appearance of federal agents with night vision goggles

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Speaker 1: on in the middle of the day on commercial airliners.

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Speaker 1: Is their coast playing Navy Seal and Delta force when

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Speaker 1: they're at the bottom of the federal law enforcement barrel

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Speaker 1: right the dregs of the pack, and it's unacceptable. The

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Speaker 1: long rifles, the throwing of flash bangs in San Diego,

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Speaker 1: the masks, the costumes in the United States of America.

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Speaker 1: And when I say there's nothing more disturbing to it,

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Speaker 1: the possible exception is the lack of outcry over it

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Speaker 1: by the leadership of the Democrats in Washington. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you think I'm on if I'm unfair on that,

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Speaker 1: but but when you see these guys, and I mean guys,

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Speaker 1: it's mostly guys heavily tattooed, mass up the blood type

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Speaker 1: on the on the velcrode patch, which is, you know,

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Speaker 1: standard operating procedure for a special operator in Iraq. They

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Speaker 1: used to tape it around there, tape it around their boots,

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Speaker 1: and so none of this is necessary if you're raiding

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Speaker 1: restaurants in Washington, DC or suburban San Diego. But but

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Speaker 1: what do you make about it? It's it's so obvious

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Speaker 1: to me, right that it's about instilling fear, and and

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Speaker 1: that this is very deliberately uh moved to turn federal

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Speaker 1: law enforcement into that proverbial jack booted government thugs, a

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Speaker 1: storm trooper force. It's just unacceptable, And I don't know

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Speaker 1: how you feel about it, but I'm real curious to

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Speaker 1: hear you.

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Speaker 3: No, I feel the same way.

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Speaker 2: It's the sort of twentieth century authoritarian playbook of shock

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Speaker 2: troops and making people afraid, and it's sadly, I wish

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Speaker 2: it weren't a playbook that we were so familiar with

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Speaker 2: and that had been studied so extensively during the twentieth century.

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Speaker 2: I think the other thing that comes out to me

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Speaker 2: to not repeat what you said, which I mostly agree with.

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Speaker 2: There's another aspect to this, which is I have a

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Speaker 2: chapter in my book, and I talk extensively on my

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Speaker 2: show about how I don't find that much value in

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Speaker 2: engaging with this movement on their so called first principles

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Speaker 2: and on the theoretical philosophical level, because as soon as

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Speaker 2: it's inconvenient to their immediate goals, those principles are abandoned.

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Speaker 2: And you see that happening here. You limit the power

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Speaker 2: of the federal government, well not when you have others

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Speaker 2: that you want to achieve, and we've seen this so

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Speaker 2: many times, right, keep the government out of business, regulation,

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Speaker 2: keep the government out of people's lives. As soon as

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Speaker 2: it becomes counter to their immediate goals and what they've

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Speaker 2: been able to convince the core of their base that

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Speaker 2: would be good for them, those principles immediately go out

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Speaker 2: the window.

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Speaker 3: And so what was the.

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Speaker 2: Value in actually debating the principles with them? Because they

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Speaker 2: don't even believe them beyond just having something to say

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Speaker 2: as soon as it becomes inconvenient.

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Speaker 3: And this is just another reminder of that.

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Speaker 2: Because every aspect of this they claim to be the

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Speaker 2: constitutional conservatives, they claim to be for law and order,

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Speaker 2: they claim to be for limited federal power. All of

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Speaker 2: these things go out the window because now they've got

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Speaker 2: a new project, absent a serious policy approach where maybe

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Speaker 2: we'll talk about the big beautiful bill, but that's the

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Speaker 2: only real thing that is even on the table. So

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Speaker 2: absent that, they go, let's abandon all of those stated principles.

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Speaker 2: Here's how we're going to execute this immigration, whatever you

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Speaker 2: want to call it, and all those principles no longer matter.

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Speaker 1: When you look at the Republican Party. I mean, so

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Speaker 1: when I hear you talking about the party, the Republican Party,

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Speaker 1: to me, it's so far gone at this point. And

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Speaker 1: I've talked about this for ten years, and the trajectory

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Speaker 1: of this is just beyond dispute, and I just want

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Speaker 1: to put myself in agreement with you. It's that the

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Speaker 1: Republican Party became a hollow party, principal less, and as

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Speaker 1: a principal less party, it became susceptible to MAGA and

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Speaker 1: to trump Ism. And there were a lot of conservatives,

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Speaker 1: such as they were, but we now understand it was

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Speaker 1: most performative group think that this is the lane I

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Speaker 1: have to operate in or swim in, however you think

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Speaker 1: about it, in order to advance myself. But but all

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Speaker 1: of those people at whatever level have made accommodations to

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Speaker 1: Trump into MAGA. And what happens in every instance when

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Speaker 1: fascism comes to power, this is a fascist regime. There's

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Speaker 1: no dispute about that at this point. Is that it's

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Speaker 1: conservatives who bring them to power and a coalition, and

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Speaker 1: the first thing that happens is the fascist completely devour

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Speaker 1: the conservatives, right, so there is no conservative party. I

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Speaker 1: talk about this with with the warning audience you know

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Speaker 1: from you know from time to time, is that it's

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Speaker 1: really hard to understand what these numbers mean, right, A billion,

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Speaker 1: a million. And the best way that I've ever heard

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Speaker 1: anyone explain it is that if I say to you,

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Speaker 1: let's talk again in a million seconds, that's in twelve days.

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Speaker 1: If that conversation goes bad and I say let's make

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Speaker 1: it a billion seconds, that's thirty three years. A trillion

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Speaker 1: seconds is thirty three thousand years from now. That's the

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Speaker 1: difference between a billion and a trillion. And this big,

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Speaker 1: beautiful bill monstrosity adds trillions of dollars to the debt.

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Speaker 1: Now you have a supposedly once conservative party's making the

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Speaker 1: argument there should be no attention paid to any deficit,

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Speaker 1: any debt spending. We should get rid of all limits

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Speaker 1: on the debt spending. So it's not a conservative party.

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Speaker 1: It's an extremist party. It's a radical party. And it's

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Speaker 1: the greatest welfare party in American history with the amount

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Speaker 1: of money that it's transferring regressively from the American people

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Speaker 1: to the wealthiest human beings who have ever walked on

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Speaker 1: the face of the earth. And at the core right

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Speaker 1: this bill can properly be described has never so much

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Speaker 1: been taken by so many, by so few, for the

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Speaker 1: benefit of even fewer. And it's an extraordinary it's an

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Speaker 1: extraordinary moment. But the most disturbing one to me is

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Speaker 1: the plain use of force that appears to be escalating

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Speaker 1: on the orders of Stephen Miller, who's directing this from

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Speaker 1: the White House. I think it's abore it that he

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Speaker 1: be named he's unelected, he's extreme, he's belligerent, he's not

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Speaker 1: confirmed to anything. His policy is being directed out of

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Speaker 1: the White House. He is wreck and cabinet secretaries that

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Speaker 1: whole constitutional offices with statutory responsibilities for the execution of

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Speaker 1: the laws within those offices that are that are routinely

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Speaker 1: being broken. Uh. And so we have an enormous problem, uh,

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Speaker 1: with with all of this right now? What what what

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Speaker 1: are you looking for a Democratic leader or some governor

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Speaker 1: or some somebody to go out and to say and

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Speaker 1: where should they say it? Well, in a perfect world, well,

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Speaker 1: what what? What does? What? What do you see happen

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Speaker 1: right for for somebody in this country to step forwarded

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Speaker 1: and and call this out? Well, that's really the question

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Speaker 1: to be and what needs to be said.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, that's the question I've been bringing to that.

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Speaker 3: That's my concern too.

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Speaker 2: And just opposing Trump and trump Ism is not enough.

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Speaker 2: That's clear that has failed as an approach for the

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Speaker 2: Democratic Party. And so over the last month and a

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Speaker 2: half two months, I've interviewed everybody from Senators Corey Booker,

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Speaker 2: Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobashar, Governor's Kathy hokeel Phil Murphy from

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Speaker 2: New Jersey Today, Gavin Newsom, I'm asking all of them

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Speaker 2: some version of that question, and if I'm honest, I'm

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Speaker 2: getting glimmers of things that sound interesting and make some sense.

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Speaker 2: But there is not a cohesive strategy right now, and

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Speaker 2: so I am very worried about twenty twenty six and

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty eight. I mean, I think certainly, if some

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Speaker 2: portion of the tariffs become a reality, if some version

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Speaker 2: of the big beautiful bill passes and it has the

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Speaker 2: economic impact that we expect, there is going to be

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Speaker 2: plenty to vote against in twenty twenty six, There's no doubt.

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Speaker 3: But it's just it's been shown to not really be enough.

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Speaker 2: And one of the great shortcomings of the Harris campaign

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Speaker 2: last year, I believe, was that to take two issues,

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Speaker 2: immigration and crime. My view as an individual is I

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Speaker 2: think the immigration issue is real and distorted and overblown

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Speaker 2: in the way that the right was talking about it.

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Speaker 2: I think the crime issue is nationally crime has been

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Speaker 2: declining for thirty years, violent and nonviolent. But just telling

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Speaker 2: people who see crimes in their community that doesn't make

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Speaker 2: them feel like they're being heard, and they felt dismissed

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Speaker 2: by Kamala Harris, and it's one of many reasons, but

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Speaker 2: ultimately she lost. So my concern is I don't see

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Speaker 2: a cohesive message right now beyond the obvious this is

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Speaker 2: really bad. We've seen that this is really bad doesn't

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Speaker 2: necessarily win you elections it wanted in twenty twenty. I mean, this,

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Speaker 2: this is really bad did win in twenty twenty because

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Speaker 2: Trump was in power, Biden was going to swoop in

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Speaker 2: and put a stop to it. Okay, so barely, but

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Speaker 2: it did win. But it's not a winning strategy long term.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know. I hope that there's some soul

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Speaker 2: searching going on.

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Speaker 1: Who do you find really impressive in the Democratic Party

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Speaker 1: right now from a potential leadership perspective.

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Speaker 2: So there's a few different ways to answer the questions.

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Speaker 3: So one category is.

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Speaker 2: Who is growing their notoriety in a positive way right

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Speaker 2: now and is demonstrating they have some cachet by being

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Speaker 2: able to get crowds going, right, So you've got these

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Speaker 2: Bernie AOC events. Bernie has made it clear he's not

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Speaker 2: running AOC. I don't know if in twenty twenty eight

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Speaker 2: AOC is the future of the Democratic Party, at least

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Speaker 2: not yet, but she's certainly generating enthusiasm, which I think

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Speaker 2: is really interesting, more pragmatically although less exciting certainly than

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Speaker 2: AOC Bernie, who seemed to be able to generate the

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Speaker 2: most excitement in person. Right now, are people like Josh Shapiro,

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Speaker 2: I think is super interesting, Gretchen Whitmer, although she's had

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Speaker 2: some pr issues with these Trump photo ops, which I

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Speaker 2: spoke to her about, and I think there's two sides

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Speaker 2: to that. I think Gretchen Whitmer is interesting in terms

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Speaker 2: of her political skill, but I don't know if it's

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Speaker 2: the right sort of fit.

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Speaker 3: Somebody like a John ossaf is boota j.

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Speaker 2: Edge too much bane, capital consultant type to be the

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Speaker 2: right guy, but I think he's extraordinarily intelligent. Gavin Newsome,

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Speaker 2: I think, is someone whose name keeps coming up because

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Speaker 2: he's so liked and disliked, which I think can be

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Speaker 2: a real problem. Although I think he's very slick, and

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Speaker 2: sometimes some ways he comes off as too slick and

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Speaker 2: too rehearsed and prepared. So there's lots of people that

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Speaker 2: have elements that I think are interesting, but I don't

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Speaker 2: know that there's like a necessarily obvious person right now.

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Speaker 1: If you could script what the Democratic leader comes out

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Speaker 1: and says tomorrow, what do they say to the country.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's it's a little difficult to answer it

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Speaker 2: because depending on what body they are is, whether it's

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Speaker 2: a governor or someone who works in the House or Senate,

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Speaker 2: or someone who's a former elected official, what an Obama

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Speaker 2: can say tomorrow is very different than what like Hakeem

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Speaker 2: Jeffries can say, or what Chuck Schumer can say.

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Speaker 3: So I think it depends on who we're talking about

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Speaker 3: to a degree.

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Speaker 1: Make it somebody in office today, Okay, if.

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Speaker 2: They're in office today, I think that the critique of

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Speaker 2: what's being done needs to be made in a less

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Speaker 2: technocratic and much more emotionally salient way as to the

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Speaker 2: impact both of the authoritarianism and the economic policy. And

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Speaker 2: at the same time, something tangible needs to be offered

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Speaker 2: as to what Democrats can do right now. Now that's

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Speaker 2: difficult because Democrats don't control anything right now, and so

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Speaker 2: what they've been relegated to. You know, I've spoken to

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Speaker 2: some of the attorneys general and others. We've got lawsuits.

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Speaker 2: Lawsuits are great, Lawsuits are slow, They're not emotionally salient,

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Speaker 2: they don't directly connect with voters as to what these lawsuits,

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Speaker 2: if they succeed, mean for me. So I think there

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Speaker 2: needs to be something more immediate and tangible.

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Speaker 3: But one of the sort of.

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Speaker 2: Benefits of the fact that we're already six months into

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five is that the midterms are basically now.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, we're a year and a few

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Speaker 2: months from the midterms, and so sometimes that's the most

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Speaker 2: effective thing to get people focused on something defined, because

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Speaker 2: generally saying we're going to do everything we can to

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Speaker 2: oppose what's going on, and the next thing they try

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Speaker 2: for an indeterminate period of time, not emotionally salient, not tangible,

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Speaker 2: not tractable. We now have a specific scenario that is

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Speaker 2: going to go one way or the other.

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Speaker 3: Here are the implications. Here's the date of this election.

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Speaker 2: It's sort of trite and stayed, but it's at least

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Speaker 2: a date in the calendar that can start to become

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Speaker 2: a catalyst for figuring out what needs to happen over

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Speaker 2: these next seventeen months or however long exactly it is.

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Speaker 1: How do you process what's going on between him and

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Speaker 1: Musk right now?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think the implosion was inevitable, and I predicted

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Speaker 2: it would last at most six months.

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Speaker 3: And this was not like some incredible prediction. We might

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Speaker 3: have talked about it. Yeah, I think we did.

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Speaker 2: I didn't have a particularly insightful prediction. I mean, I

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Speaker 2: think it was obvious that at the most it had

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Speaker 2: six because when you put billionaire egocentric maniacs together.

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Speaker 3: Rarely does it work out particularly well.

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Speaker 2: But I don't think the implosion is because Elon Musk

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Speaker 2: is strongly ideologically opposed to what's in the Big Beautiful Bill.

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Speaker 2: I think it's that Elon Musk sees the fact that

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Speaker 2: he was involved with the bill and this is now

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Speaker 2: what it looks like. I think he sees it as

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Speaker 2: a liability to his businesses and to his reputation, and

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Speaker 2: that that's really what he cares about. I don't think

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Speaker 2: that he really gives it damn as to whether the

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Speaker 2: bill comports to his philosophical beliefs about how governments should run,

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Speaker 2: and I just don't think it does. I think it's

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Speaker 2: a problem. I think the bill is just a problem

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Speaker 2: for him, and the association with Trump has become a

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Speaker 2: problem for him.

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Speaker 1: There's so many people that are worried about this moment,

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Speaker 1: and I think, rightfully, so and they get depressed and

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Speaker 1: they get into a doom loop, and right they evaluate

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Speaker 1: the reality, which is that Trump holds the power and

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Speaker 1: he is applying to Congress and we're seeing the courts pushback,

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Speaker 1: but they don't seem to be able to see that

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Speaker 1: the pushback of the American people is also real, right,

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Speaker 1: and that Trump is having difficulty doing things, and people

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Speaker 1: around Trump were getting really banged up, and nobody more

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Speaker 1: so than Elon Musk, and so Elon Musk, drug addled,

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Speaker 1: black guy, embittered is going back to Texas and he's

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Speaker 1: being interviewed this week and he's like, no, no, no, right,

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about space. You're never going to

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Speaker 1: have an interview again, dude, where you're going to be

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Speaker 1: talking about space ever? Fifty two? Right? This is this

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Speaker 1: is gonna be living if you live to be one

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Speaker 1: hundred and eleven. Right, this is this is it? Right

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Speaker 1: what you did? And YouTube guys, right, Trump and him

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Speaker 1: are totally inseverable from one another, no matter what, forever

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Speaker 1: and ever like truly they are they then right they

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Speaker 1: have they are a conjoined person reading a force of

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Speaker 1: one and it's definitional form. I think he's wrecked his companies.

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Speaker 1: I think he's wrecked his brand, I think he's wrecked

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Speaker 1: his reputation. I don't think he'll be a NASA contractor

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Speaker 1: a defense contractor any of these things and in the

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Speaker 1: not too distant future. And I think that's why it's

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Speaker 1: so important for Democrats to start outlining not necessarily a

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Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty seven, but a Project twenty twenty nine,

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Speaker 1: which is the plan for democratic restoration and for real

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Speaker 1: restraints putting on the executive branch, real accountability. And there

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Speaker 1: has to be a plan in twenty twenty seven that

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Speaker 1: they articulate for oversight. And I think one of the

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Speaker 1: areas that most important is oversight on privacy. The accumulation

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Speaker 1: of individual data by the government of the people, by

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Speaker 1: the people for the people, in handing it to a

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Speaker 1: contractor like Palenteer utterly unacceptable in a free society. For

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Speaker 1: us to have a digital Stasi in the United States,

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Speaker 1: completely unacceptable. I think that the breaking up of the

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Speaker 1: Homeland Security Department is going to need to be a

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Speaker 1: legislative priority. The reform of these state security bureaus, every

432
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: age and that has appeared with a mask on at

433
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: some point in the near future, I see being asked

434
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: a question by their superiors, did you participate in human

435
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: seizure raids wearing a mask? And if you answer that

436
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: question is yes, then leave your badge and your gun

437
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: and the desk on your way out the fucking door,

438
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: right And so there's gonna be an era of accountability

439
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: for this. And you know, after the wreckage is cleared,

440
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: how government deliver services, we should imagine doing it better.

441
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: Then it's that it's been done. But Trump's in to

442
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: do a lot of damage, and the Democrats are going

443
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: to have to, I think, step into the future with

444
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: an agenda that says, at a at a very basic level,

445
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: that we're the reform party in this country. We're the

446
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: renewal party in this country. We're the freedom party in

447
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 1: this country. And we hear the electorate loud and clear.

448
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: And the Democrats are going to have to leave some

449
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: baggage behind because they have a national approval level of

450
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: twenty five percent uh and they have a lot of

451
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: dysfunction in in a lot of places, like for example,

452
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: New York City in the country right now in this moment.

453
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: But when when you think of everything that's going on

454
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: Are you optimistic, are you are you pessimistic? Or are

455
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: you kind of in the in the middle. Right now, my.

456
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 2: Nature is to naturally be optimistic. And this is not

457
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 2: like some Stephen Pinker stuff. But there are large broad

458
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 2: ways in which life has gotten better on average over

459
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 2: the last however many years.

460
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 3: Now, that's a separate.

461
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 2: The trajectory on that can be pretty long, and so

462
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 2: that's a very different question than am I optimistic about

463
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 2: the next two years, the next four years, in the

464
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 2: next eight And I do think that the answer there

465
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 2: is it depends I do. I am still naturally optimistic

466
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 2: about the longer term right if we're talking about decades

467
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 2: or longer, But the next two, four and eight years

468
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 2: are going to depend on some pretty nuts and bolt stuff.

469
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 3: It's not broadly theoretical.

470
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 2: It's as we were talking about, can the Democratic Party

471
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 2: put together something more actionable and attractive than Trump's bad again?

472
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 2: Let's get rid of him again. The pendulum. There is

473
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 2: a sort of pendulum swing in American politics, and we

474
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 2: see that based on what usually happens in the first

475
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 2: midterm after a new party takes the White House. So

476
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,719
Speaker 2: we know, like the math of that, the algebra of that,

477
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 2: but that's just enough for the pendulum to swing back

478
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 2: and forth, and it keeps swinging a little further and

479
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 2: further to the right every time that it swings. So

480
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 2: that's a question for the next two for six and

481
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 2: eight years, right like the next four major elections. The

482
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 2: technology and privacy issue that you brought up, I'm going

483
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 2: to incline AI in that because it's so relevant right now.

484
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 2: That's another major question mark. It's socioculturally relevant, and I've

485
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 2: been reading a ton of that. I have friends who

486
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 2: are college professors who have said that their work right now,

487
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 2: the dynamic in college right now is students using AI

488
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 2: in ways they believe will be undetectable, with professors using

489
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 2: AI to detect student use of AI. It's sort of

490
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 2: like turtles all the way down, as Stephen Hawking used

491
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 2: to say. So that's like socioculturally, I think the AI

492
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 2: question is really important, but also from a government perspective

493
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 2: and what it means for facial recognition and pre crime,

494
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 2: as Philip K. Dick wrote about in Minority Report, et cetera.

495
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 2: So I think including that in one of these kind

496
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 2: of big two to eight year considerations is hugely important

497
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 2: as well.

498
00:32:55,440 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: The two other things that are that are going on.

499
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 1: We have this month the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary

500
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: of the US Army. It occurs on Flag Day, and

501
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: this is also Trump's birthday, and we're going to have

502
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: a Kim johng Un parade, probably the greatest desecration in

503
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: the history of the armed forces. This is taking place

504
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: over here. And then the other thing that we're seeing

505
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: is the dismantling of America's science economy, the linkages between universities,

506
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: research institutions. And one thing that is hard for me

507
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 1: to wrap my head around, but I accept this, and

508
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: I wonder if you think I'm overstating this at all,

509
00:33:53,840 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: is that I was really blown away by the web

510
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: telescope when it was launched and the technology. When you

511
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 1: think about that's it, that's the that's the that's the

512
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 1: most sophisticated piece of technology that that human beings have

513
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: ever made in all of human civilization. We launched it

514
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 1: into space and it can literally see back to the

515
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: beginning of time. It's a it's an extraordinary scientific instrument

516
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 1: of discovery. And this was never my thing. That's why

517
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: I went into politics, right You know math and science,

518
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: but having an appreciation for people that are curing diseases,

519
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: that are fighting cancers, brilliant people that don't get famous

520
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: doing this, most of them don't get rich doing this.

521
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 1: But this upward trajectory of progress the clear notion. And

522
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,240
Speaker 1: I know this, right, I'm fifty four. I know people

523
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 1: that have died, for example, ten fifteen years ago of melanoma,

524
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,720
Speaker 1: that would have lived today, right, or would have lived

525
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 1: through some other type of type of cancer. And when

526
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 1: you look at what Robert Kennedy's doing, and when you

527
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 1: look at what his henchman calli Means is doing, Cally

528
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 1: Means in the subject of a Vanity Fair profile where

529
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: this is the architect of the Maha Report, and the

530
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 1: Maha Report turns out to be written by artificial intelligence

531
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: with all manner of fake reports and all manner of

532
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: fake citations attached to it, and Calli Means in this

533
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: Vanity Fair story is identified as almost having a completely

534
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 1: fraud joint background. He does he was my assistant back

535
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: in the day. So all the things that he says

536
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 1: he did, he didn't do. He's a fabulous, like a

537
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: George Santos type character. And yet though it's been reported

538
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 1: in Vanity Fair and this person is architecting health policy

539
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: and he's a fraud. And The New York Times reported

540
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: as fact two weeks ago in a profile that this

541
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 1: guy did this, this, and that, and he didn't and

542
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 1: they haven't corrected it. He's deeply worrying that you realize

543
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: that the forward progress of human civilization scientifically, at least

544
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: in this country, has come to its forward apergy, right,

545
00:36:55,640 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 1: and it's falling back right. The science that's being wrecked,

546
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:08,760
Speaker 1: the studies being ended, the dismantling of all of these

547
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: things by people who have no qualification whatsoever to do them,

548
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 1: think require a democratic party that can speak to them

549
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: and talk about the necessity of scientific progress, kind of

550
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: that long arc of human progress, and to talk about

551
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 1: it in a political context is a choice for the

552
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 1: society because because when you have the number of rural

553
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: hospitals that are going to close and everything that's going

554
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: to happen in the next in the next two years,

555
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 1: it's going to get tough for a lot of people

556
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 1: out there, including a lot of Trump voters, you know.

557
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 2: And one of the real tragedies of this also is

558
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 2: that there are some characters that have gotten pulled into

559
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 2: this whole Maha orbit who actually do have interesting things

560
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 2: to say. I mean, I think Marty mcarey, for example,

561
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 2: FDA Commissioner.

562
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 3: He wrote a book in which he brings.

563
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 2: Up a lot of really interesting things about our healthcare system.

564
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 2: One example, which was relevant to me as somebody who

565
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 2: had my appendix out, is that in the US the

566
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 2: er system loves appendectomies, and that the truth is eighty

567
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 2: five percent of them you can treat with antibiotics and

568
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 2: it doesn't come back. You're not at increased risk for

569
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 2: ultimately ending up with the appendectomy anyway. That's like a

570
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 2: real tangible issue. Another one, American healthcare system loves c sections,

571
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,479
Speaker 2: and even though other countries have figured out even after

572
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 2: one C section, most women are still candidates for a

573
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:45,720
Speaker 2: natural birth in the US. Very quick to see section

574
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 2: like these are really good, interesting conversations based in building

575
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 2: science up over periods of time that Marty McCarey wrote about.

576
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 3: And then now you know he's on.

577
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,959
Speaker 2: With Margaret Brennan three minutes apart saying we can't trust

578
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 2: CDC data and believe me because I'm using CDC data

579
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 2: right in the same interview three minutes apart, and Margaret

580
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 2: Brennan's head is spinning. It's the debasement even of people

581
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 2: who actually do have interesting things to say, And as

582
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 2: you're pointing out, also the elevation while experts are criticized

583
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 2: experts with real expertise, the elevation to expert status of

584
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 2: people who have no business actually making policy.

585
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 3: It's a disaster.

586
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 1: What do you say about it? How do you engage

587
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: that issue?

588
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 3: I try to engage it with this approach.

589
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 2: If a thirty, forty, fifty sixty year old wants to

590
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 2: dig in on a TikTok or YouTube stream with me

591
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 2: about any one of these issues, I'll argue with them

592
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 2: in the sense that I'll plead my case. I'll try

593
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 2: to explain to them why my view is different, why

594
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 2: I believe their view isn't informed by science. That's like

595
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 2: the retail strategy. Though, how many people can I really

596
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 2: argue with?

597
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:01,839
Speaker 1: Right?

598
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 2: I tie it back more to a culture that is

599
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 2: lacking a sort of reverence for critical thinking and epistemology

600
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,839
Speaker 2: and debate and discussing why do we believe the things

601
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 2: we believe? And so there's a cultural aspect, but it's

602
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 2: inextricably intertwined with education policy, where we really should be

603
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 2: teaching basic media literacy and critical thinking in every school,

604
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 2: probably starting at age eight. You could make a case

605
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 2: for six. Some people say not to middle school, but

606
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 2: certainly in every school. And it's much harder to get

607
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 2: people to think in this way once they've not been

608
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 2: thinking this way for thirty forty fifty years. And so

609
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,720
Speaker 2: that's why I think it really is an educational issue.

610
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 3: And I'll say one other thing about it.

611
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 2: Sometimes when I say this, I'll hear from teachers or

612
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 2: school administrators who say, David, you really shouldn't be blaming us,

613
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 2: like we know what needs to happen. And I'm not

614
00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 2: blaming them because to a great degree they are construyi

615
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:04,800
Speaker 2: by the system that elected officials and sometimes on elected

616
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 2: officials have put together.

617
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 3: So this is not a criticism of teachers. This is

618
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 3: a criticism of a system.

619
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,720
Speaker 2: That has stripped some of these building blocks of knowledge

620
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 2: from public education.

621
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 1: Overwhelmingly. To me, the most impressive Democrat in the country

622
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 1: when I when i'm when I kind of look at

623
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 1: them is Jake Auchincloss, who is the thirty eight is

624
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 1: thirty nine forty year old Democratic congressman from from Massachusetts, and.

625
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 3: I've had I've had him on and I find him

626
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 3: very impressive.

627
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 1: He's very impressive, and he knows, he knows what he

628
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: wants to do and where he wants the lead. I

629
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 1: have no idea if he wants to run for president,

630
00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 1: but you know, he's somebody that should be in the

631
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: category of thinking about it and saying a lot of

632
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 1: interesting things. That's right of a of a new generation

633
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 1: that has some vision on some of these issues that

634
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: the country's going to have to reckon with over the

635
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 1: next over the next decade, over the next twenty, over

636
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:28,280
Speaker 1: the next twenty years. But I look at this through

637
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: a bunch of different lenses, you know, and I wrestle with,

638
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: you know, being pessimistic at times, you know, when I

639
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 1: when I think about this, But I have a faith

640
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: that the good guys win, and the good guys doesn't

641
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: mean Chuck Schumer right. It means that the forces that

642
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 1: support American liberty right, that we that we as a

643
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:00,399
Speaker 1: country make it through this era. But but but how

644
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 1: does it end? Right? How does this? How does this

645
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 1: how does this fever break? How do you see it expiring?

646
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 1: The decompression going on where people take a step back

647
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 1: in the country from the madness.

648
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 2: So I'll give you my ninety percent vision, and then

649
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 2: I'll give you my ten percent vision, less likely but

650
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 2: probably still just as effective. So my ninety percent vision

651
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 2: is that much the way that empires often fall or

652
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 2: technology advances. When you're in the middle of the change,

653
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 2: you often don't realize that the change is taking place.

654
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 2: I think that there's examples of this for the bad.

655
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 2: If we think back to Trump, as he likes to say,

656
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:58,839
Speaker 2: coming down the Golden escalator in twenty twenty five, It's

657
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 2: been almost a decade, and so much has happened in

658
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 2: this decade, and also typically from week to week, it

659
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 2: doesn't feel like that much change, although the last two

660
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 2: months it does because we're seeing unprecedented thing after unprecedented thing.

661
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 2: But the idea here is I think the fever is

662
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 2: likely to break relatively slowly, and it will have a

663
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 2: lot of components. At some point, the Republican Party will

664
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 2: move on from Trump. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll move

665
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 2: on from trump Ism, and that sort of will depend

666
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 2: on sort of what level of satisfaction the Republican Party

667
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,919
Speaker 2: has with Trump whenever his term ends. Either because it's

668
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,240
Speaker 2: been four years, or because he passes away, or whatever

669
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 2: comes to be. So I think at some point the

670
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 2: party will move on from Trump. They might stick with

671
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 2: a MAGA type candidate or maybe not, but Trump himself

672
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 2: will be gone. I think that as we see, hopefully

673
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:56,319
Speaker 2: the recognition from voters of how their vote relates to

674
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 2: the things that happen in their communities, either through the

675
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 2: federal government directly or governorships, etc. I think that slowly, hopefully,

676
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 2: as the country has seen for the last hundred years,

677
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,800
Speaker 2: it will continue moving in what someone with my political

678
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:12,280
Speaker 2: beliefs believes is the right direction.

679
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:14,319
Speaker 3: Now, of course, there are people if.

680
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 2: Your political views are different, you may disagree with that.

681
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 2: If we look back one hundred years on every serious question,

682
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 2: should we tax the very rich to ensure that the

683
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 2: poor don't fall below a certain standard of living?

684
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 3: Should abortion be legal?

685
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 2: In most cases we've seen not extreme left, but a

686
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,359
Speaker 2: sort of move steadily to the left. So I think

687
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,839
Speaker 2: as that continues, and then here's the maybe part of it.

688
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 2: If we can do something about how our politics is

689
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:45,919
Speaker 2: funded and how elections are run, which is a big ask,

690
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 2: and we can go into detail about it or not

691
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 2: hopefully elected officials will more closely reflect the political beliefs

692
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 2: of the country because one of the things that we

693
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 2: see time and time again due to a combination of

694
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 2: how you raise money and Jerry maandering, if you place

695
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 2: the American electorate on the political spectrum, the elected officials

696
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,399
Speaker 2: are to the right. And so if we can get

697
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 2: elected officials more aligned with where people are through the

698
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:17,320
Speaker 2: reforms that I talk about, I think it will slowly

699
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 2: break the fever.

700
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:20,280
Speaker 3: Now that's my ninety percent explanation.

701
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 2: My ten percent is if Trump drops dead in like

702
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:27,399
Speaker 2: nine months, I think there's a chance that they go,

703
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 2: that was really crazy, let's do something different here.

704
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 3: And then jd.

705
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 2: Vance is pushed to be like not really Trumpian that

706
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 2: I don't believe that's the most likely outcome, but it

707
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 2: is sort of like in the back of my mind

708
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 2: as a possibility.

709
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 1: I think that I think that one of the things

710
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 1: that is going to have to happen is for there

711
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 1: to be a lot of economic pain. Unfortunately that is

712
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 1: both coming and is going to be help in order

713
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: to in order to break the madness. But nobody who's

714
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 1: gotten in business with Trump has ever come out of

715
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 1: the deal happy and you know, So that's that's one

716
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 1: aspect of it.

717
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 2: But Steve, just on that one question, do you think

718
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 2: the voters would blame the right people for that? And

719
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:27,879
Speaker 2: the reason I asked that is when Obama did Obamacare

720
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 2: and offered these medicaid expansions to the states and some

721
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 2: Republican governors didn't take the expansion, voters in those states

722
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 2: often believed it's Obama's fault even though it was their

723
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 2: governor's fault. So my only question on that is will

724
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 2: people blame the right parties for that economic pain?

725
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 1: I don't know. Right there's been such a disenfranchisement of

726
00:47:55,040 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 1: so many places, so many states by the National Democratic Party.

727
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, I don't think

728
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: people will countenance the corruption and the craziness. Though I

729
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 1: think that there's a lot of rope left to be

730
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 1: uh let out on the tolerance piece, I don't I

731
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 1: don't think people are consuming news like we are. I

732
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,280
Speaker 1: think that there's a lot of things that they're seeing

733
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 1: that they don't like. The you know, polling reflects that.

734
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: But you know, in the in the end, I think

735
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 1: that uh, this has to play out now in a

736
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 1: way that gets to a pretty unhappy result for a

737
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 1: lot of people. You know, I think I think Trump

738
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 1: is Trump is a world class demagogue. None of this

739
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 1: is on the none of this is on the level.

740
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:57,239
Speaker 1: And he's going to break the economy and you will

741
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:01,319
Speaker 1: just have to see how people people react to it.

742
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 1: But I but I think that Democrats have to understand

743
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 1: that they have a lot of work to do. That's

744
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 1: for sure, a lot of they have a lot of

745
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:15,800
Speaker 1: work to do, and that and that work is about

746
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 1: kind of facing the reforms that are necessary. Right, So

747
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: if you're if you're running against the corrupt party, you

748
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 1: got to be the anti corruption party. You can't be

749
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 1: the party that holds the position it's only corruption if

750
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 1: Trump does it right without a doubt, I mean, and

751
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: that's the that's the that's the key, that's the key

752
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 1: to getting out of this. Have to be better.

753
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 2: I do think that if Democrats can at least just

754
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:45,879
Speaker 2: take the House in November of twenty six, that would

755
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 2: be a pretty solid potential bulwark for the last two

756
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 2: years of Trump's presidency, and it could create enough of

757
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 2: a springboard towards figuring some things out, as you're pointing out,

758
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 2: and momentum into twenty twenty eight, but I don't think

759
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 2: that's a guarantee by any means.

760
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,320
Speaker 1: You know. I listen, I think Democrats will take the House,

761
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 1: and I think that they will that they will potentially

762
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 1: take the Senate, and I don't think there's necessarily going

763
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: to be a safe seat in the country. But I

764
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:16,399
Speaker 1: think that a lot of the electoral energy is going

765
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 1: to be against the Democratic leadership and the Democratic status quo.

766
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 4: Right.

767
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 1: I think that the DSCC is recruiting candidates to go

768
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 1: out and to support Chuck Schumer to be leader for

769
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: two more years. And I think the candidates that are

770
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 1: going to matter in this election cycle are the ones

771
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:39,800
Speaker 1: that have the guts and the integrity Democratic side to say, listen,

772
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 1: he's not a dishonorable guy, but he's not the right

773
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 1: leader for this moment. He's been weak and inteffectual, and

774
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 1: he appeased Trump for the first months of the term.

775
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 1: And that's a reason we have all these crazy cabinet secretaries.

776
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 1: And we would have been much better off if we fought.

777
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:02,360
Speaker 1: Schumer made a catastrophic decision and earlier in the deal.

778
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:06,360
Speaker 1: And no right my state, whether it's in Texas, whether

779
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 1: it's a Volcana wherever the state is that know, the

780
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 1: people there, my Democrats in our state, we want to

781
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 1: change and and I think that driving that change energy

782
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 1: with a real agenda. You know, for example, all of

783
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:29,760
Speaker 1: these oligarchs, and they are of the biggest tech companies

784
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 1: in the world, have concentrated too much power and wealth. Right,

785
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 1: There's been a concentration of power and wealth and a

786
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:43,280
Speaker 1: cruel that happens, you know every you know generational cycle

787
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 1: I suppose, or several generational in America, maybe every eighty

788
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 1: years or so in the history of the country. It's

789
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:53,279
Speaker 1: got to be broken up. And it's occurred before in

790
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 1: the same philosophies that broke it up have to have

791
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 1: to confront this accumulation of power again. And that's what

792
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:07,239
Speaker 1: Democrats have to be for. Can't be a party of platitudes.

793
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,840
Speaker 1: It's got to be a party of policy and fierceness

794
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 1: in defending Americanism and so like the allergy of the

795
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:19,799
Speaker 1: American flag and raising it high and saying what we

796
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:24,839
Speaker 1: share in common, right is not racial identities. It's an

797
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 1: American identity that's open to all of us. And I

798
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 1: think Democrats have to get into that space as quickly

799
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 1: as they as they can in order to be successful

800
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 1: again as a national party.

801
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 2: I think that's right, and I also I always caveat

802
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 2: this by saying I don't bring this up because I

803
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 2: think it's the most serious thing, and I think sometimes

804
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 2: it's a problem when we pretend it is. But I

805
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 2: think that the Democratic Party also needs to figure out

806
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:57,720
Speaker 2: how to not be republican light which has not worked,

807
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:04,839
Speaker 2: but also not to really appear to be placating the

808
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,360
Speaker 2: fringe left. And I call it fringe rather than extreme,

809
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 2: because I think it is really a minority. It's a

810
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:13,439
Speaker 2: very loud minority if you spend time, especially on social

811
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 2: media platforms. And one of the problems within the Democratic

812
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 2: Party it's not really it's both a feature and a

813
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 2: bug in the sense that people are doing it because

814
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 2: they're engaged, but also it can be an electoral problem.

815
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 2: Is the purity testing of there's one idea that's too center.

816
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 2: I'm staying Homer voting third party, there's one idea that's

817
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 2: too left. I'm staying Homer voting third party the Maga Party.

818
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 2: Once they win, it's a mess. But to win elections

819
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 2: you have a hesitation about a Democrat, come on in,

820
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 2: you're welcomed with open arms. And if you've got a

821
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 2: big Twitter following, you're invited to mar A Lago. And

822
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:51,360
Speaker 2: that instinct I think would be really good to develop.

823
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 1: On the left, there's you know when you talk about

824
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 1: the fringe left, and it's exactly that's exactly it. In

825
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:07,240
Speaker 1: the reality of it is there's no chance the fringe

826
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 1: left could ever take political power in America, but they're

827
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 1: loud enough to drive demand for an extreme right. And

828
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:25,280
Speaker 1: so America was never susceptible to a dictatorship of the left.

829
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 1: It's always been susceptible to a dictatorship of the right.

830
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:34,879
Speaker 1: And that's why that old apocryphal quote about if fascism

831
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:38,239
Speaker 1: comes to America, it'll be wrapped in the flag and

832
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 1: carrying the cross, and it's an important element to understand.

833
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 1: And so, you know, I would make the argument that,

834
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 1: for example, the new mayor of San Francisco is doing

835
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 1: a terrific job, and the last mayor and the last

836
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:59,319
Speaker 1: district attorney did a lot to help Donald Trump. And

837
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 1: you had pro crime district attorneys in some of the

838
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:07,440
Speaker 1: biggest cities in the in the country who were off

839
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 1: the wall, and people don't want it. The open air

840
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:16,800
Speaker 1: drug markets, the sense of disorder, and so they become

841
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 1: easily picked off by demagogic candidate like Trump. And you know,

842
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, you know, there's a

843
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 1: cohort of Democrats that are terrific at giving lectures telling

844
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 1: people what they can think about, what they could say,

845
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 1: what words they can use, what phrases can be used.

846
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 1: And it may it may have an appeal to somebody

847
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 1: out there, but there's a lot of people it just

848
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:50,280
Speaker 1: triggers their fuck you response. And the person who's capitalized

849
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 1: on that has been Trump, And so you know, to me,

850
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 1: it's depressingly you read stories about Democrats just commissioned a

851
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 1: twenty million dollar study to learn how to talk to men, right,

852
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:08,359
Speaker 1: who are fifty percent of the human population, And so

853
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:11,719
Speaker 1: you just hope the party gets gets in touch and

854
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 1: you know, can find its way to normalcy, right because

855
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:19,880
Speaker 1: there's scores of tens of millions of normal people in

856
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:25,239
Speaker 1: this country right who can look at issues authentically and

857
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:29,800
Speaker 1: honestly and clearly that range a spectrum from your moderate

858
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 1: Democrat to your progressive Democrat that can relate to real life,

859
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 1: real people, real situations, and look in the praise this

860
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:41,239
Speaker 1: moment in time, and I think address it with the

861
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:45,000
Speaker 1: utmost seriousness, and there's lots of examples out there, but

862
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:51,040
Speaker 1: it just hasn't coagulated into a coherence for the party

863
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 1: as a whole, as a unit, as a leadership. You know,

864
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 1: for instance, I have no idea why there's not a

865
00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 1: daily news conference where people go out and respond across

866
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 1: the broad spectrum that use some humor to tell some jokes,

867
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 1: but participate in the theater that is necessary to participate in,

868
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 1: because at the core, we're fighting an information war, and

869
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 1: that's what is a huge deficit I think and comprehension

870
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 1: by a lot of the Democrats facing off against Trump

871
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 1: is an appreciation for the nature of the fight they're in,

872
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 1: and a lot of people are frustrated about it. I

873
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:36,800
Speaker 1: know a lot of people in my audience.

874
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 2: Are, yeah, I know, I was same with mine, and

875
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 2: you know, I was sort of chuckling to myself sadly

876
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 2: when I started seeing these instances of people like Schumer

877
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 2: and others introducing swear words in a completely very obviously

878
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 2: calculated and contrived way, as if that might be a

879
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 2: communication tactic to use, you know, But on the on

880
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:00,480
Speaker 2: the speaking too, men thing. I don't know how many

881
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:03,360
Speaker 2: people in your audience are familiar with Scott Galloway, but

882
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:08,240
Speaker 2: I think the way that he's been communicating is nothing's perfect,

883
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 2: nothing's an exact model, but I think it serves a

884
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:15,439
Speaker 2: lot to just point to. Here is how someone who

885
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 2: unquestionably fits into the MAGA definition of what it means

886
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:23,440
Speaker 2: to be alpha right, the wealth and the confidence. And

887
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:25,880
Speaker 2: I think he's tall, you know, like checking out the boxes.

888
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:32,080
Speaker 2: But he's articulating in a way that is both respectful

889
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 2: but emotionally salient ideas of the center left. I guess

890
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:39,760
Speaker 2: we would call it, and doing so extraordinarily effectively with

891
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 2: a disproportionately male audience, I think that that should be

892
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:43,120
Speaker 2: looked at.

893
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt. Well let me we're at our hour.

894
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:52,640
Speaker 1: We've had a good crowd here, so let me give

895
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:55,640
Speaker 1: it over to you to wrap it up, to observe

896
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 1: any last observations that you have for the night about

897
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:02,520
Speaker 1: what's happening in the country, and to gain real pleasure

898
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 1: to get a chance to spend an hour with you.

899
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 3: Always the always a pleasure, you know.

900
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 2: One just little note of what I've been hearing from

901
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:15,400
Speaker 2: my audience over the last week the whole. If X wins,

902
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:18,120
Speaker 2: I'm going to move to Canada that we started hearing

903
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 2: back in the George W. Bush days, which doesn't actually

904
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 2: happen that often for a number of reasons, including that

905
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 2: it's not that easy for Americans to move to Canada necessarily.

906
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 2: I've heard from hundreds of my viewers who during I'm

907
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 2: not going to say it's not over the last six months,

908
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 2: but since Trump won the first time, have moved out

909
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 2: of the United States, and they all it's self selection biased.

910
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 2: The ones that aren't happy don't write to me, but

911
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:47,600
Speaker 2: they all articulate the ways in which they just feel better,

912
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 2: are more positive, and feel more stable in terms of

913
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:53,400
Speaker 2: the basic building blocks of life, even if their income

914
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 2: isn't necessarily as high on paper having moved to fill

915
00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 2: in the blanks Latin America, You're a Asia. Heard from

916
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 2: a couple people in Africa, and it's been interesting just

917
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 2: to hear those stories from people about people who aren't

918
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 2: they're not threatening, they've done it, and sort of hearing

919
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 2: what that's been like.

920
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:17,200
Speaker 1: Unbelievable time. David Pacman, thank you very much for yours

921
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me.

922
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 4: I'm Steve Schmidt. This is the warning. I invite you

923
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 4: to join this community, where I promise to be honest,

924
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 4: blunt and direct about what is happening in this country.

925
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:34,560
Speaker 4: America is in crisis. Follow and subscribe to this channel

926
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:35,720
Speaker 4: and on substack.

927
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 1: Thank you.