1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: Hello on Michael barn and I'm Scott Sasnik. On this 2 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: weekly podcast, we will explore the big money issues in 3 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: the world of sports and talk to some of the 4 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,159 Speaker 1: biggest players in the industry. On this week's show, we 5 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: speaks senior vice president of Octagon Media Rights Consulting Dan Cohen. 6 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: But first let's look at the top stories of the week. 7 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: Joining us is Bloomberg Business of Sports reporter Evan Novi Williams. 8 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: Let's start first of all sports betting. Oh my goodness, 9 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: if this happens. There's a new report that predicts eighteen 10 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: states will introduce bills to regulate sports betting this year. 11 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: We're leving having a good chance passing legislation, and then 12 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,639 Speaker 1: thirty one others will probably follow anything, leaving Utube out 13 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: of it on the fly. Thank you, Mrs Murray. Uh 14 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 1: the yeah, this is gonna be. It's gonna happen once 15 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court rules. If it rules in favor of 16 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: New Jersey, which could happen as early as as mid March, 17 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: You're gonna see a lot of states falling in line 18 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: very quick, realizing that this is going to go the 19 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: state's routes. There's a large windfall for taxes that's gonna 20 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: come out as as a result of this UH and 21 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: states needs to move quickly. But as you and I know, 22 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 1: the interesting part here, and we haven't told the whole 23 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: story yet, is all the jockeying that's going on behind 24 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: the scenes. All the companies that are associated with this space. 25 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: We can name some of them. You can say DraftKings, 26 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 1: you can say William Hill, you can say MGM, sport Radar, 27 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 1: sport Radar. Everybody is sort of ramping up the behind 28 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: the scenes what if because nobody knows exactly what it 29 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: will look like, but they're trying to plan for a 30 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: variety of scenarios in which they are first on the ground, 31 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: ready to run and to be first mover static. And 32 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 1: that's true at the state level. Also, a lot of 33 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: these states also don't know what this is gonna look like, 34 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: you know, so they're putting provisions in their bills that 35 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: casinos look at and say, I can't do business in 36 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: the state where there's a fee that I'm paying to 37 00:01:57,760 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: the NBA or the NFL for all my betting. Because 38 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: lot that needs to be looking at you, Indiana, there's 39 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: a lot that needs to be shaken out, of course. 40 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: But there's a lot of money here. But what happens 41 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: to fantasy sports because there's a big difference now. But 42 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 1: regular now people can say, you know what, forget it. 43 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: I don't have to go and look for this player 44 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: and that player and blah blah blah, and just break 45 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: it down to which team I think is gonna win 46 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: the game. Now, are we talking daily fantasy? Are we 47 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: talking season long fantasy? Daily fantasy? That's gonna be a problem. Yeah, 48 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: But don't forget These daily fantasy companies are also we 49 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 1: named DraftKings and Fandel. They're looking to like broadcast live 50 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: sports on their screens next to their platform, So they 51 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: are morphing or looking to morph as this is going 52 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: on as well. Another topic ESPN college football. All the 53 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: worries about ESPN and ratings, well it looks like ESPN 54 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,679 Speaker 1: knocked it out of the park. Forgive the baseball pun 55 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 1: Talking about college football, you heard Bill Hancock, the executive 56 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 1: director of the College Football Playoffs, on our show uh 57 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: saying that moving the semifinals to New Year's Day was 58 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: gonna be a good thing. Obviously he was right. Getting 59 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: an all SEC showdown between Alabama and Georgia also pretty 60 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: darn good for ratings. Uh yeah, this is uh, this 61 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: is the most watch cable show of the year almost 62 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: every year, and it didn't fail to deliver this year 63 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: as well. We joke. It's very simple, Evan, right, get 64 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 1: some good brands, marquee teams, new stadium that has a 65 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 1: lot of publicity close to where these teams play on 66 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: a night where let's say a lot of people aren't 67 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: doing something else. Which, by the way, when we go 68 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: back and examine this as a as a sports business 69 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: case study, I want to go back into that room 70 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: when somebody said, you know, I have an idea, we 71 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: should put the game on New Year's Eve, not New 72 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: Year's Day. And not only didn't that person and I'm 73 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: not even sure who it is, do we know who 74 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: that was? Not only didn't that person not get left 75 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: out of the room, a whole bunch of other people 76 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: raise their hand and said, love it. You are thinking 77 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: outside the box. Let's do that. Yeah, you know, we 78 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: don't really think these New Year's Eve revelers are right. 79 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: They rather just watch football at home than go out 80 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: to their parties and do things. I mean, my lord, 81 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: that's got to be one of the worst decisions ever 82 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: made by the way. To give you the numbers right quick, 83 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: the famous and it is famous. The Alabama Thrilling comeback 84 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,599 Speaker 1: when over Georgia was watched by twenty eight point four 85 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 1: million people. Let's talk about John Gruden and all the 86 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: other coaches in the NFL thanking John Gruden for a 87 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 1: big fat pay day. Chuckie Chi Chuck is back everywhere. 88 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 1: Where do we go with John Gruden? I mean, I 89 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 1: wonder a ton of money, and it's a lot of money. 90 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 1: But we know these coaches are going to get a 91 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 1: lot of money. You know, he wants to make that's 92 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,799 Speaker 1: Mark Davis's team going to Vegas, wants to make a splash. 93 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: But I'm one that always has always said I wished 94 00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 1: owners would give coaches the support so that the players 95 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 1: knew that this is my guy, that there's no complaining, 96 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:05,919 Speaker 1: there's no going to the owner, there's no going to 97 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 1: the g m s. And I'm unhappy like this is 98 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: my guy. It's so rarely seen in pro sports, like 99 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 1: Jerry Sloan had that in Utah and many others didn't 100 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 1: have it. So from that perspective, I'm glad to see it. Yeah, 101 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: then again, this is a guy that hasn't coached in 102 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: over a decade, you know, and halved one of the biggest, 103 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: if not the biggest coaching contracts in in NFL history. 104 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, time will tell. Uh. There's a chance that 105 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: the long contract makes players more willing to play for 106 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: him and more excited and it works out well. There's 107 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: also a huge chance that this close up in their 108 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 1: face people talking about the Raiders, that's what they like. 109 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: Gruden signed a ten year contract ten million dollars a year. 110 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: Our thanks to Bloomberg Business of Sports reporter Evan Nobi Williams. 111 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: Now we get into our interview with senior Vice president 112 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: of Octagon Media Rights Consulting, Dan Cohen. Yes, Michael, I 113 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: have known Dan a very long time, and sometimes when 114 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 1: he rings me and like where are you in the world. 115 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: One day it's Monaco, one day it's Peru, you never 116 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: know what he's doing, who he's representing. Dan, thanks very 117 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: much for joining us. Thank you, and Octagon started a 118 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: media rights division in August. Why does the company feel 119 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,160 Speaker 1: the need to jump into this market. I think because 120 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: you're seeing a lot of convergence of all these commercial 121 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 1: rights come together. So historically Octagon a company for thirty years, 122 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: been involved in two core businesses. Right, You've got I 123 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,559 Speaker 1: think of Michael Philps. You do think of Michael Pholips, 124 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 1: You think of Steph Curry, Felix Fernandez, Simone Biles. You 125 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: have the talent representation side, and then the other side 126 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 1: of the piece is a big corporate consulting business. Now 127 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: that I'm drinking to juice a little bit more, I 128 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: could say maybe the best in the business. Right, But 129 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: you've got corporate clients such as MasterCard, Bank of America BMW, 130 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: for example, and so we're helping control their spend and 131 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: strategically align their spend with where to spend in sports marketing. 132 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 1: Both of those pieces, talent representation and the corporate partnership side, 133 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: the sports consulting side, they're all about content. Now. It's 134 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: all coming back to media and so as content becomes 135 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: more critical to all aspects of business, not just as 136 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: a standalone, Octagon is trying to grow and become a 137 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: more full service agency. Media rights consulting is a big 138 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: piece of that. If the accountants are to be believed, 139 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: this will be the first year that media revenue outpaces 140 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: tickets and in arena so now we're seeing scale, we're 141 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: seeing content distribution, owners, leagues, they all need it. I mean, 142 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: this isn't this is the biggest part of their revenue 143 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: streams now. And I think that hails back to your 144 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: first question, which is why has Octagon gone into this piece. 145 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: It's because it's the single largest revenue driving factor for 146 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: for any sports professional company, right, whether it be A 147 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: whether it be the Master Cards, whether it be the 148 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: n b A. It's it's the most critical. Take us 149 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: through the process. Let's say, for instance, Joe blow athlete 150 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: or company comes to you. Take us through the process 151 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: on what you do for that person or that company, 152 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: so people will understand exactly what you do. Sure, So 153 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: it's it's a little bit different for each one. There's 154 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: not a plane Vanilla. So we've got four core businesses 155 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: within the Meteorites Consulting division that we look at and 156 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: try to help advise on how to catch up with 157 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: this rapid change. You have the players on that side, 158 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: it's about content creation a lot of the time. Take 159 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: Tom Brady for example, in his new Facebook watch deal 160 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: with the Religion of Sport and ace Media with the 161 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: NFL p A, there's a proliferation of content offerings, and 162 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: athletes have now become themselves their own broadcast network in 163 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: a way, great front porch, but they're annoying to work with. 164 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: That's what I hear all around from all the reps. 165 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:33,679 Speaker 1: You will not say it having drunk the kool aid. 166 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 1: Here he is now biting his lip, Michael Barr. But 167 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: that's what I hear from everybody. It's great to have 168 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,319 Speaker 1: the big names, the famous faces, but it's a big headache. 169 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: And by the way, not that much money. Scheduling is 170 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: a problem. Scheduling is a problem, and I think expectation 171 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:47,719 Speaker 1: in some regards as a problem. And what I mean 172 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: by expectation is the the amount of distribution that they'll get. 173 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: So if you allow a player, if you allow a 174 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: broadcaster or a Facebook or an Amazon or Twitter to 175 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: come behind the curtain, there's an expectation from that athlete 176 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: sometimes as to the amount of distribution that might get. 177 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: So you have the player athletes side of the content business, right, 178 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: and that's about content creation. That's moving into players becoming 179 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: their own broadcast channels in a way. The second piece 180 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: there is your traditional business, which is working with leagues 181 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: and federations, and confederations, your traditional rights holders that own 182 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: these rights. And for us in that space, it's really 183 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: about threefold. One valuation services. How much are these rights 184 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: worth as they become so valuable and critical to the 185 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,839 Speaker 1: lifeblood of broadcasters. How are we exploiting these rights to 186 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: generate enough revenue from them? So that's the distribution side, 187 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: and then it's also the negotiations support. So we're helping 188 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,719 Speaker 1: leagues actively right now, not just in the US but 189 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: globally look at how to distribute and sell these rights, 190 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: how to negotiate these rights and carve them up so much. 191 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: Ten years ago, yeah, maybe twenty years ago, media rights 192 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: was a catch all everything right, and traditionally it just 193 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: meant TV. Now, media rights have been carved up and 194 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: bifurcated so many times over and over. You have leagues 195 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: like UEFA, for example, that are uh they're they're sending 196 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: out r FPS just for electronic gaming rights. And then 197 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: there's linear, there's digital, there's augmented reality, there's vv R, 198 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: there's betting, there's radio. There's so many pieces. The average 199 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: league now in the US can carve up their rights 200 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: eleven different ways. If you go back ten years ago, 201 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: maybe you could cut it up between digital or internet 202 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: and that catch all and TV. We are chatting with 203 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,719 Speaker 1: senior VP of Media Rights at Octagon, Dan Cohen, and Dan, 204 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: let me let me ask you how many rights holders 205 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: over value what they have. It's almost like somebody trying 206 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: to sell an apartment. Everybody thinks their apartment is worth 207 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: more than the offer. Is that what it is these 208 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: days in media because of all the buzz that content, content, content, 209 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: It's it's worth so much. Yes, So there are there's 210 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 1: there's a really a shift right now and you're seeing 211 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: the premium rights holders continue to get more bang for 212 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: their buck and the allocation of budget that broadcasters and 213 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: the new tech giants are allocating to these premium folks 214 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: is much greater than what they had before. It's that 215 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: second and third and fourth tier set of sports league 216 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,839 Speaker 1: that have these media rights that that's going to be 217 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: a challenge, I think moving forward, and they're gonna have 218 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: to be creative in terms of how to keep that 219 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: that value at where it's at. And at the turn 220 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: of this next decade, a lot of these rights come up. 221 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: So you know, without picking on any when you look 222 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: at someone like NASCAR, can Nascar repeat the same media 223 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 1: rights jump that they did and at a NASCAR fan 224 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: his chime in, Michael Bark, I was just going to 225 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: ask this because this is a problem for NASCAR this season. 226 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 1: Next month we have the big Daytona five hundred. Yes, 227 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: you have that race, but then the rest of the 228 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: other races, there are no major stars now that people 229 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: can say, Oh, my goodness, there's so and so, there's 230 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: Dale Earnhard drives the pace car every week. Yeah, what happens. 231 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: I mean that that's a big thing. NASCAR has to 232 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: do a better job at popularizing the younger stars and 233 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: creating these new personalities. As a lot of the personalities 234 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: that we all grew up with in the last ten 235 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 1: and fift years watching are gone, They're gonna have to 236 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: do a much better job of creating characters. I think 237 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: that's one piece. I think the second pieces, they've done 238 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: a good job. They need to do a better job 239 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: at digitizing their uh, their content, and they need to 240 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: get it in the hands of a younger audience and 241 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: make it more meaningful. So I think if they do 242 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: both of those pieces, and do it well and are 243 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: committed to it, then they're gonna stay relevant. The other 244 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 1: piece to think about two as a NASCAR fan is 245 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: they've got more competition now than they've ever had before 246 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: within the motorsports space. Formulaly I'm a big fan of 247 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:41,839 Speaker 1: I think it's a huge growth. Uh. It's just kind 248 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: a title sponsor with a like a robot the b 249 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: a A yeah yeah. And and as a lot of 250 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: these this millennial generation is into causual marketing and social 251 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: you're seeing a you know, really the first true green 252 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: sport to come out of this. It's it's competitive. I've 253 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: been to a few races, it's pretty wild. The one 254 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 1: in Miami. You don't even hear these ours turn. Uh. 255 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 1: And then you've got Formula one with an entirely new 256 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 1: set of an executive team in Chase and Sean Bratch's 257 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 1: that are season's veterans, and they're they're gonna know what 258 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: to do, uh to get Formula one into more mobile, 259 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: handheld and more TVs in the US in particular. It's 260 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: a big focus for them. So NASCAR is under some pressure, 261 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: but I do think if they stay true to committing 262 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: to building a bigger fan base through uh personalities and digital, 263 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: they should stay relevant. And I don't want to make 264 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: people like Jimmy Janson and Kevin Harvick. Matt, It's like, hey, 265 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 1: we're here too. We have been stars in the sport 266 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: pushing nobody. They push each other in pitt Row and 267 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 1: then they're separated, Michael, But I mean back in the day, 268 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: it's like you could name them Buddy Baker obviously, Richard 269 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: Petty and David Pearson. You can go on and on 270 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: and on, and you would go to the track we're 271 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: watch on TV is like this is my guy and 272 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 1: I don't even know who to root for it. I 273 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 1: can't tell you how much I love them that I 274 00:13:55,720 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: have no idea who Buddy Baker he got around another 275 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: guy I knew, but Buddy Baker, Michael, you scratch in 276 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: your head like that. What's the first screen anymore? The 277 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: first green, second screen experience? We here is the sport 278 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 1: the first screen. And we've talked to others about this 279 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: as well. Do the league's care if their property is 280 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 1: the first screen as long as it's up, whether it's sports, 281 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: betting or social next to it, I think they have 282 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: to care. The first screen is still television to this 283 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: date is still television. When you look at media rights, 284 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: the digital rights, are still a fraction of of the 285 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: value from a revenue perspective, and still a fraction of 286 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: the viewership. Amazon's averaging three D fifty thou viewers for 287 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: Thursday night football, Well that is maybe what not even 288 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: one two d of what NBC and CBS and we 289 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: let's put it in perspective. We were just talking about 290 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: this not too long ago. Is that yes, you you 291 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: have the streaming, and you have your tablet and you 292 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: have your laptop whatever, but television is still Michael has 293 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: this flip phone. Yeah, I can't get this thing to work. 294 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: You can still remember the you had to bring up 295 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: the worst thing ever in ESPN history, the ESPN phone 296 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: didn't quite work out. Oh man, I remember that. But yeah, 297 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: I mean, but television is still huge Cuban, right he 298 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: You know what Mark said that the leagues have and 299 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: the teams have done a terrible job at reminding fans 300 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: that the television is still the best way to watch games. 301 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: It is and and I think you know, the question 302 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: before all this media evolution took place over the last 303 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: three to four years was how do I make the 304 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: in stadium experience more meaningful? Because at home, the TVs 305 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: are getting so much better. I think they've done a 306 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: terrible job. When I go to a stadium, I feel 307 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: like what they've done is recreated the living room experience 308 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: at the arena. When I want a unique in experience 309 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: when I go correct, it should be all that experiential, right. 310 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: And I'm not an expert in that, but I've been 311 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: to a bunch of games and and and I think 312 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: that it should be about living in the moment, feeling that. 313 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: You can't feel it through a screen, Okay, the best 314 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: you can do is feel it through a phone, feel 315 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: it through a laptop or or a handheld device. But 316 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: when you're at the stadium, it's about creating those memories. 317 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: It's creating those memories with your best friend, with your father, 318 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: with your mother, with your son or your daughter. And 319 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: that's what teams have to continue to find uh and 320 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: revolutionize ways to create the memorable experiences. And that's touching 321 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: a player, getting an autograph, that's eating something special. It's 322 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: it's it's a you know it still works from my son, 323 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: and you know my little guy loves hockey, but you 324 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: know it still works. The T shirt toss, it's amazing 325 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: NBA needed to throw a kid a T shirt because 326 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: you got a fan for life if a puck or 327 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: comes from the player during pregame, fan for life exactly exactly. 328 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: Or or I'll take one stuff further, a little bit 329 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: easier and and something that that everybody can touch, run 330 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: the basis after a game, go skate on the ice 331 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: after a game. You might have to sign a waiver 332 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: or two, but actually touch and feel the field and 333 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: be part of that that you still can't get through 334 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: a screen. This did happen, I believe two years ago, 335 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: and I hope I'm not maligning the New York Mets 336 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: too badly here, but they had sort of come down 337 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: and run the bases after the game. So they brought 338 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,360 Speaker 1: the kids down at maybe the bottom of the eighth 339 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: inning line. Everybody up and the game went like sixteen innings. 340 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: And it's like, even when you try and do now, 341 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: if you're the New York Mets in that situation, and 342 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: I'm assuming it's not two years ago when they actually 343 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: were pretty decent, all of those kids that wanted to 344 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: run the basis and had to go home, find out 345 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: who they are and offer them too free tickets to 346 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: sit up in the nosebleeds and come run them again. 347 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: If they didn't do that, shame on them. I still 348 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: say the greatest experience I ever had was as a 349 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: Father's Day present, they gave me the ride experience to 350 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 1: drive a NASCAR on the Pocono Raceway, and I'll never 351 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 1: forget that. It's like, so you see the guys racing, 352 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 1: and then it's like, oh, my goodness, this is what 353 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: I'm doing. Is like running the bases NASCAR style. Talking 354 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 1: with Dan Cohen, the senior VP of meteor RTEs Consulting 355 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: at Octagon, tell me about the NFL, we hear so 356 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: many bad things, but there's no context, and we're we're 357 00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: big on context here. Yes, the numbers are down, but 358 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: numbers are down across TV. They're still the best way 359 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 1: to aggregate eyeballs, particularly young men. The top ten broadcasts 360 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: of all two thousand and seventeen, Number one was NFL. 361 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 1: Number two was NFL, Number three was NFL All Fast Forward. 362 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: Number ten was NFL. Right, so they're still drawing a 363 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: tremendous amount of attention and and and they're not. They're 364 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 1: going to continue to struggle if they can't figure out 365 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:30,159 Speaker 1: some of these really systemic issues that they have. Uh, 366 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: it's become politicized, and I don't think personally the NFL 367 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 1: has done a good enough job of stepping out in 368 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 1: front of that and addressing it with players and addressing 369 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 1: it with fans. CTE. It's a it's a major issue, 370 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 1: but the fans care. Are fans turning off their televisions 371 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: or their tablet whatever it is because of c T. 372 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: I think mothers of children that want to play football 373 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 1: and will be future football fans are turning off the 374 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: televisions at home. I don't think the fathers on a 375 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 1: Sunday that grew up with football generational. I don't think 376 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: that generational effect has taken place personally, but I think 377 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 1: that it's that next generation. And if I am Roger 378 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: Goodell or any of the senior exactly at the NFL, 379 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: I'm thinking always not about the fan today, but the 380 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 1: fan tomorrow. And so I do think that CT is 381 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: affecting the fan of tomorrow. It's not just the feeder system, 382 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: it's also the watchers of tomorrow exactly exactly. I don't 383 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,199 Speaker 1: I don't want my son or daughter to be watching 384 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: a sport where people end up uh in a in 385 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,400 Speaker 1: a really bad place physically and mentally in the future. 386 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 1: So I think CT is another piece. And then I 387 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: think this ratings issue, it's it's just everywhere. And kudos 388 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:37,959 Speaker 1: to ESPN for getting out in front and touting how 389 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 1: well they've done in college football playoffs. It's up this year. 390 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: Monday Night's game was a heralded success. Uh, And I 391 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 1: think the cfps have just been really good football with 392 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: the exception. Bill Hancock was our guest, was talking about 393 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:54,360 Speaker 1: the aggregation of sort of the national buy college football 394 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: and the big brands. So it's not a football problem, 395 00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: it's an NFL problem. But I'm gonna get back to 396 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: something you said about politics seeping into the NFL, And 397 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 1: it's not just the NFL, it's any sport. Any sports 398 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 1: fan is watching that sport to escape, just to watch it. 399 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,199 Speaker 1: That's another problem that everybody in this industry has of 400 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: separating the politics from the sport. Yes, and I think 401 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,919 Speaker 1: that as we live in a time where polarization in 402 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: political beliefs become greater and greater, sports are going to 403 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:31,159 Speaker 1: become more politicized. So the commissioners, whether it be Manfred's Silver, 404 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: France Goodell, Bettman, etcetera, they need to start to think 405 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: about how they're going to address these issues. I was 406 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: personally quite shocked that the anthem protests didn't seep into 407 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,399 Speaker 1: more of the NBA or Major League Baseball. Uh. And 408 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: I'm sure if you ask some of the commissioners of 409 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: other leagues, they feel like they dodge the bullet on 410 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 1: that one. And Dan, I hint that this at the 411 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: start of the show. But I want to give people 412 00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: a glimpse into your life, like you're sitting there in 413 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: your office boom phone rings. I mean, it can be 414 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: any of your clients anywhere in the world. It runs 415 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 1: the gamut, right, it's Telco's, it's tech giants, it's leagues, 416 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: it's federations, it's athletes. Our first client we ever brought 417 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: in back in the fall, it was a private equity 418 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: company looking to make an acquisition of a sports league. 419 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: And we love the private equity companies looking to buy 420 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 1: sports leagues as media rights continue to drive up value 421 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: and these teams are become really media companies in many ways, 422 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: and that's their that's their asset, and that's what they've 423 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: adjusted to become. Private equity has gotten in there, uh 424 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,959 Speaker 1: quite often, not just as a flip. And I think 425 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: this company that we're looking at is looking at doing 426 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,360 Speaker 1: a massive roll up in a specific sector, buying out 427 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 1: a few of these competitive leagues and then exiting after 428 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,439 Speaker 1: seven or eight years. And they want to have a 429 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: deeper understanding contextualizing this specific sport with regards to its 430 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: media rights. What have they done? Where is it undervalued? 431 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: How can we exploit those rights greater? And if we 432 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: were to roll these up, what does that value of 433 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: media rights look like? And then what does the distribution 434 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: strategy for that league look like? Can you walk us 435 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: to CBS, NBC, ESPN, Lifetime, Twitter, Facebook and have those 436 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: conversations with us and for us, which sport is undervalue today? 437 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 1: In your mind? It's a great question. I think that 438 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: the premium, the best top three soccer leagues globally are 439 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: undervalued within this country. It's gonna be really interesting for 440 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,679 Speaker 1: us to watch. Is the La Liga tender for the 441 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: US and other territories that is to be issued this week? Uh, 442 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: and that's where I'd go. I'd go with the the 443 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: International socks. So the Premier League, even that they're getting 444 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: a hundred and sixty five hundred and sixty six million 445 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: dollars a year, I still think that's a that's a 446 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 1: bargain uh for the US. I think La Liga. I 447 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: think Bundesligue has done a pretty good job of growing 448 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: now that they've got politic, they've got an American star. 449 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: I had the officials, top guys from the French Soccer 450 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 1: league in the office this week and they're looking to 451 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: one find American investors, but also their rights, their U 452 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: S rights are coming do they are this week? And 453 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: they're all they're promising that we're not EPL, we're not Bundesliga, 454 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: we're not Syria yet, but you can get it on 455 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: the cheap. Is that a realistic argument to make from 456 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: a team buyers perspective or from a media rights perspective. 457 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: From a team buyers perspective, I'm not buying um FF 458 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: right the French league yet. From a media rights perspective, 459 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 1: I think it's about I think it is a goodbye 460 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: for someone who traditionally hasn't carved out their space as 461 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:43,439 Speaker 1: a sports media broadcaster traditionally or as a or as 462 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 1: a tech giant. UH. And it's a good property. It's 463 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: a lot of content ps G with name ARM and 464 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,120 Speaker 1: you have a brand that you can wrap around Leone 465 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: Marseille Monico is performing incredibly well, owned by own by 466 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: Frank lcord. I dropped that one in there. Not from 467 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: performance perspective, certainly, but there's a second team in Paris 468 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: that isn't very good, isn't well known. If I'm looking 469 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: to get into European soccer, why spend X billion on 470 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 1: an EPL team or whatever it might be when I 471 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,880 Speaker 1: could get a team in Paris and with some investment 472 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: maybe build it up to be arrival to PSG. No 473 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,919 Speaker 1: I absolutely. I think a lot of it has to 474 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: do with looking at what is the f f F 475 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: going to do from a revenue generation standpoint, how are 476 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: they going to from and then and then from a 477 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: media perspective, what are they doing to address some of 478 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 1: the scheduling complications that they've had in the past. And 479 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: what I mean by that is from the international perspective, 480 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: they're pretty much at their peak. From a domestic perspective 481 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 1: in terms of incremental revenue is not going to be 482 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 1: double digits, So where do they find that money? English 483 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,120 Speaker 1: Premier League has been the best to beating the global 484 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:50,920 Speaker 1: market to the punch, and now you start to see 485 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: La Liga and Bundesliga opening up these global offices. The 486 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 1: French league need to do the same. How are they 487 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 1: going to schedule their games so that when I'm in Shanghai, 488 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: I can be watching a PSCG game, right? And has 489 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,880 Speaker 1: that impact the domestic market? Um? And then the last 490 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: piece I'd go to is Liga MX. I am extremely 491 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 1: bullish on Lega MX. I think it's probably the most 492 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: undervalued property in all of global sports, not even just 493 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: in the US. The most watched soccer league in the 494 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:21,199 Speaker 1: US by far, averaging somewhere between one point five and 495 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,880 Speaker 1: two million UH for a cloud Sury game for people 496 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 1: I know that's the Mexican top division. Yes, and you 497 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: and and it goes back to and this is what's 498 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 1: so fascinting about media rights, right, It's not just about 499 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: the value of those METEA rates. It's it's economics, right, 500 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 1: It's it's g d P, it's demographics, it's immigration, it's 501 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 1: technology shifts, it's it's consumption. So you're tying in all 502 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 1: these different factors to try to help a league figure 503 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,680 Speaker 1: out how much it's worth, or help a broadcaster figure 504 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 1: out how MU should I buy it for? Uh? Lega 505 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 1: MX is a great example of that, there's going to 506 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,120 Speaker 1: be thirty they're currently it's thirty five million Mexican Americans 507 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: living in the US. That number is expected to double 508 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: by two. Traditionally, as you assimilate, you still that first 509 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: second generation still holds onto that home culture, home team affinity. 510 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 1: Octagon has done a lot of passion drivers research on 511 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: this about fan affinity, what drives a passion, what drives 512 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: the passion of a fan, and from an international perspective, 513 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,959 Speaker 1: from an immigrant perspective, it's still that home team. And 514 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,640 Speaker 1: so I think that there's a lot of growth opportunity 515 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: that still hasn't been tapped into for LEGA X, the 516 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 1: first division of the domestic soccer League Mexican. Many years ago, 517 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: my son, who was going to go to college, said, Dad, 518 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: I want to get into sports marketing. I said, really, 519 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,399 Speaker 1: So what advice would you give somebody who wants to 520 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: get into sports marketing? Okay? Can I do first? You 521 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: don't now, D take it away? I if it, well, 522 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: putting myself in your shoes. Not a father yet, but 523 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,160 Speaker 1: if I if I did have a son or daughter 524 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 1: looking again in sports marketing, I'd be completely supportive of it. Mr. 525 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: Sask But but I would try to drive them towards, uh, 526 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:06,919 Speaker 1: towards jobs that that really are much more what's the 527 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,479 Speaker 1: right word, just much more all encompassing or much more universal, right. 528 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 1: I wouldn't typically an entry level just recent grad is 529 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: going to go sell tickets for the Cleveland Indians. That's 530 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: not a job I'd want my son or daughter to do. 531 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: I don't want them robot calling two fifty people a day. 532 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: I don't think they're gonna learn very much. I think 533 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:29,920 Speaker 1: going to work um at, even if it's at a 534 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: league or a sports media company, a marketing company and agency, 535 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: somewhere where you can get a vast exposure to all 536 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: the different facets of sports business. Too much pressure is 537 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,120 Speaker 1: put on, like specializing. I'm not a special I mean 538 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: I've become one over over the years, but I I've 539 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: worked across so many different pieces of sports technology and 540 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 1: finance and media and data and betting, and I only 541 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: arrived at becoming this because it was out of the 542 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: experiences that I had before. So that would be from 543 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,239 Speaker 1: a actional guidance standpoint, get something where you can get 544 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,679 Speaker 1: as much exposure to all the different levels that make 545 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: sports business tick. From a from a job seeking and 546 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 1: life stability perspective. I'd say, prepare yourself to be a 547 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 1: great bartender or you know, something else to help pay 548 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,159 Speaker 1: the rent bills, because it is is grueling. We just 549 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: had a job posting at Octagon recently received two thousand, 550 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,439 Speaker 1: seven hundred and seventeen resumes for one job. And that 551 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 1: job is an entry level job, and that job is 552 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: going to be a lot of hours a week, and 553 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 1: it's not gonna pay very much, and it's certainly not 554 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: gonna be able to cover the cost of living in 555 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: New York City, uh, fresh out of the gate, right, 556 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: So you're gonna live in the outer boroughs, you're gonna 557 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: commute in. It is tough. It is really tough. I 558 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: worked for four years. I'm not too counting my own horn, 559 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: but I'm sure Sashi experienced this as well. I worked 560 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: for four years unpaid, and I won't I will name 561 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: the company. Nice shift for years, yeah right, and and 562 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 1: you know I won't name the company, but a lot 563 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: of that I'm sure it was probably illegal. They'll find 564 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: out where a lot of unpaid internships that I had 565 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: to go through. I agree with you, right, So it's 566 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: it's had the expectation that you're not going to change. 567 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: You're not theo Epstein. Right, there's only there's only a 568 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: few theo Epstein's out there. You're not gonna be a 569 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: thirty year old g g M. John Daniels theo Epstein. 570 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: You're gonna come in, You're gonna work really hard. You're 571 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: gonna make very little. And if you can get through 572 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: that that first hump of you know, the first three, 573 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: four or five years, and and do well and have 574 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 1: a great attitude about it, and be helpful and get 575 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: your hands dirty, you'll be set. Here you go, son 576 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,479 Speaker 1: now even got the advice. Well, speaking of tough sledding, let' 577 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: let us get to ESPN work. We're kind of winding 578 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: down here. Just your your take on. I mean, a 579 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: skipper is out. George Bodenheimer is back at this cross 580 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: roads in a way for ESPN. What do you make 581 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: of where they stand? Maybe not the eight hundred pound gorilla, 582 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: but the seven hundred and fifty pound gorilla. But they're 583 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: going to have to pay massively for rights competing against 584 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: you've said at Amazon, face Book, whoever is involved. Two, 585 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: when they're all up, where do where do they stand? 586 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 1: So I'll just here at your last point first, and 587 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 1: then we'll talk about ESPN. I think Amazon and Facebook 588 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: and others getting into this space it raises the stakes. 589 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: But what everyone's not talking about is the fact that 590 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: those businesses existed and we're profitable way before getting into 591 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: the sports media rights space. The pressure for them to 592 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 1: go out and grab these rights is much less than NBC, 593 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: than CBS, than ESPN, slash Fox. The lifeblood of those 594 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: companies in many ways are their sports media rights. It's 595 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: that live content. So when it when we talk about 596 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: sports media rights growing and increasing and and driving additional revenue, 597 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: it's that additive pressure that the technology companies are putting 598 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: on the traditional linear broadcasters. Survivability depends on them having 599 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: those rights. They're going to continue to be very relevant. 600 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 1: From a viewership perspective, TV is still the number one screen, 601 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: and from a a content perspective, they need these media rights. 602 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: So I don't think Amazon's coming in here in the 603 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: next certainly next cycle, right and gonna blow away the competition. 604 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: So the rights, the barrel jumping, that's still going to 605 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: be cheap, but it's still just the numbers tame. You 606 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: would actually you would look at the numbers and see 607 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: the r O I because Jim Miller wrote a fascinating piece. 608 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: I loved it. Can ESPN live without the NFL? And 609 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: so his argument was, at a certain price, they may 610 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: have to and just go with highlights or some other package. 611 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: But you're saying ESPN as the worldwide leader in sports. 612 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: If they don't have the live event, they're not ESPN. 613 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: That's correct. ESPN is built themselves into a very large corner, 614 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: but a corner in which I go there for all 615 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: things sports. Now that they have Fox. A stat I 616 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 1: read the other day from Pivotal Research was incredible between 617 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: Fox and ESPN of all live sports viewing in the US, 618 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: and two thousands seventeen was done between those two channels. 619 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: You have to go to ESPN for live sports, especially 620 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: now that they all have all foxes, rs N S, 621 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: the regional sports Networks, local audio, local sports is what 622 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: really drives a lot of lots. It was more than 623 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: half of sports viewing would have been on one of 624 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: those two platforms. That would be more than this is 625 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: this is our number guy, more than half. No, No, 626 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,479 Speaker 1: that we're gonna end on that with that, all right? 627 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: Dan Cohen, Senior VP of Media Rights, consultant at Octagon. 628 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Thank you. Takeaways from the interview, 629 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 1: I am so glad that Dan agreed with me that 630 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: television is still the number one way to watch sports 631 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: because yes, I know you have it online, you can 632 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: stream it, blah blah blah, But old man bar still 633 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 1: likes to sit down in his Barker Launger and watch TV. 634 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: Have a lazy boy, do you see? That's another one. Well, 635 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 1: what I took away from Tannis you can't be lazy 636 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: boy and do what he does. This guy is on 637 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: the road. But what what struck me the most is 638 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: remember the conversation where he talked about, let me tell 639 00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: you what goes into evaluating what these things are worth. 640 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: He's talking about immigration patterns, and who thinks that way. 641 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 1: I mean, if you're not in the business, you really 642 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: don't know what goes into Why is the NFL worth x? 643 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: Why is Liga m X soccer on Facebook worth why? 644 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: This is why it's the most watch soccer league in 645 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: the United States. And if you look at the pattern 646 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 1: of viewers, it's only going to grow. These are the 647 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: things that all the metrics that he has to look 648 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: at before making a determination. Fascinating to me, and like 649 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 1: you said, Dan Gowen, bless your heart because you have 650 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 1: to have a special mind to do what he does 651 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: for a living or just be an oddball. And that 652 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: I can guarantee he is feels better to be number 653 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: one than number five. I'll wear a number because of mine. 654 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: We have a chance to go for three in a row. 655 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 1: Kids numbers in a good time, and let's first started 656 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 1: wearing the number. I would just happy about Floomberg business 657 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: of sports, the number of the week. Time. Now for 658 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 1: the number of the week. This is gonna be so 659 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 1: too much pressure. I let you do this every week 660 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 1: and then pop it on me. But I don't know 661 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 1: when I say it, you're gonna alright, thirty nine million, 662 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 1: thirty nine they see who watched what? Thirty nine? I 663 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: don't know. Nothing pops to me right away. I have 664 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 1: to know right away or else I don't know. I'll 665 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:26,280 Speaker 1: give you a hint. City Field, City Field, thirty nine million. 666 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 1: J Bruce, Okay, all right, that's good. Signing a three 667 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 1: year contract with the New York Mets. There's a lot 668 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: of money in baseball, and I'm always wondered though, It's 669 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 1: like which one is the better sport? To get into 670 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:48,359 Speaker 1: baseball or basketball. When it comes to money, guaranteed contracts. Yeah, 671 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna part and parcel one over the other. 672 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 1: I can say it's not football, don't It's not football. 673 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 1: So I mean, if you look at Jean Carlo Stanton, 674 00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 1: you know he's got two hundred plus million on his 675 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 1: d Basketball players that they have the cap at a 676 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 1: certain amount they can be paid, but they're guaranteed contracts. 677 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: So nobody's crying for Steph Curry, nobody's crying for Jay Bruce, 678 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: nobody's crying for Jim Carlos Stanton. You've been listening to 679 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 1: the Business of Sports. We are here each and every 680 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 1: week at the same time, exploring the world of money 681 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,400 Speaker 1: and sports. Michael Blarn and I'm Scott Sashnik. Thanks for 682 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,360 Speaker 1: joining us, and please tune in next week when we 683 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:25,760 Speaker 1: speak to the biggest and brightest in the sports industry. 684 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,320 Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports on Bloomberg Radio 685 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: around the world and online as an Apple podcast on iTunes.