1 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: From Bloomberg News and I Heart Radio. It's the Big Take. 2 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: I'm West Cossova. Today we go out in the city 3 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: looking for rats. The number of rat related complaints in 4 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: American cities has spiked in recent years, which will come 5 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: as no surprise to anyone who's taken an evening stroll 6 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: in New York or Chicago or here where I live, Washington, 7 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: d C. They are fearless and they're all over the place, 8 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,480 Speaker 1: which made us wonder are there more rats now than 9 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: there were before? Like did the pandemic cause a rat 10 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: baby boom? Cities have tried and failed for decades to 11 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: control rat populations without much luck. So what can be 12 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: done to get rid of them? Sports in it Ly, 13 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: my intrepid colleagues here at the Big Take podcast set 14 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: out to answer those questions. Producers Katherine Fink in Washington 15 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: and Rebecca Chesson and Sam Gobauer in New York are 16 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: here to tell us what they found. Katherine, Rebecca, Sam, 17 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: nice to have you on this side of the microphone. 18 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 1: Oh thank you for having us. Wess wouldn't be anywhere else. 19 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: It's gonna be fun. Rebecca. To start, let me ask you. 20 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: Most people I know me included. Don't exactly love rats. 21 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: No one is happy to cross paths with one of 22 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 1: them on the street. But for the most part, they 23 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: keep to themselves. Why do we need to get rid 24 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: of them? This is one of the big questions that 25 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: I set out to answer, So I asked rhodentologist Dr. 26 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: Bobby core again to break it down. Here's what he 27 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: told me. They they live in a dirty areas, So 28 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: you know when an animal forges in and around all 29 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: this trash we're talking about. We know when trash goes 30 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: bad right and gets rotten, right. We don't need it 31 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: because we worry about getting sick. So decaying food attracts 32 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: various bacteria viruses that can hurt us and even in 33 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: some cases kill us. If you get on c DC 34 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: dot gov and you put in rats, you will see 35 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: that rats are listed of being associated with about fifty 36 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: five different diseases. So disease is the second thing. The 37 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: third thing that's often overlooked is rats getting we look 38 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: at all these buildings around us, well, I can guarantee 39 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: you we're looking at about into the bog about eight 40 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 1: fairly all department buildings right across the street here. Rats 41 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: have been in those ceilings and they will make their 42 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 1: barrow instead of the earth. Their barrows will be in 43 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: between each floor. So it's back to day with chewing 44 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:56,679 Speaker 1: on twigs and stems and all kinds of branches. That's 45 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: their natural life even before there were cities. Someone a rat, 46 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: it is in the ceiling, living close to someone, and 47 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: you're in the ceiling has electrical wires, so you you 48 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: can see the issue. So they start chewing on electrical wires, 49 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: and the electrical wire sparks and literally they can burn 50 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,799 Speaker 1: a house down and have burned house there. You'll be 51 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: hearing a lot more from Dr Core again later on. Okay, 52 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: so now that we've established that, Catherine, you actually went 53 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: to see for yourself exactly how our fine city, Washington, 54 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: d C. Is trying to control the rat population. And 55 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: to be honest, I'm a little squeamish to find out 56 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: the answer. Maybe for a good reasons, that question led 57 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: me to the Brightwood neighborhood in northwest DC. So you crew, 58 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: I'm the crew. It's just me a. You have a 59 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: much bigger crew than I do. I'm not scared of rats. 60 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,119 Speaker 1: Am I about to see a lot of rats? Yeah? Yeah? 61 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: Run might give you as long as I can do 62 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: it with one hand. I'm I'm willing this. This would 63 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: be a perfect place for me to bring people that 64 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: that they want to smell reck. I wish I could 65 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: bottle it up and sell it. What what a rat 66 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: smell like to you? Okay? Oh yeah, that's bad. That's 67 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:32,919 Speaker 1: not good. You might need to get a shovel, Katherine. Okay, 68 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 1: how did this little meet up come about? Okay? I 69 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: cannot emphasize this enough that I had no idea what 70 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: I was walking into. So I reached out to d 71 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: c's Rodent and Vector Control team. You heard some of 72 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 1: the folks there in the clip. They're part of the 73 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 1: Department of Health, And basically they gave me an address, 74 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:57,159 Speaker 1: and I what that is? All I knew going in. 75 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,799 Speaker 1: So that smell I referenced was coming from this big 76 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: shed that was full of garbage cans in front of 77 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:07,840 Speaker 1: an apartment complex. And the rodent control team told me 78 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: that this is a rat hot spot. They estimate that 79 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 1: over twenty rat burrows are underground there. And just for context, 80 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: a burrow is at least a dozen rats um and 81 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: one to two burrows is pretty typical in a residential yard. 82 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 1: So that kind of gives you a sense of just 83 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: how bad the problem was. So about two rats. The 84 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: team comes to treat the site about every two weeks, 85 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: So how many people are part of this team that's 86 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: doing this treatment. When I got there, there were about 87 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: seven guys or so. They all had shovels in hand. 88 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: I had no idea what the shovels were for or 89 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: what I was about to see. And then they turned 90 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: on the machine. Let me get into So we've got 91 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: this green contraptions of looks like a lawnmower. I guess 92 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: it's a currently pumping chemicals underground where the rats are burrowing. 93 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 1: So occasionally we're seeing some pop out of the holes. 94 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: Oh oh oh, that was the sound of a shovel 95 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: smacking the concrete as the team attempts to kill an 96 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: escape the rat. Unclear if they actually got him or not. 97 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: This is not for the faint of heart. Okay, that 98 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: was way worse than I was expecting, Katherine. So we 99 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 1: heard a lot of sounds and then we heard the 100 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: sound of the machine. We definitely heard the sound of 101 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: that shovel smacking something. But describe what they were doing. 102 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: How are they trying to get rid of all those 103 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: rats that were underground. After they turned the machines off, 104 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: I learned that the team was basically pumping carbon monoxide 105 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 1: into the ground, which suffocates the rats on mass almost immediately, 106 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: some of them scurried out of the ground and we're 107 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: chased with shovels. That's what you heard there, And the 108 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: team did this treatment a few times on both sides 109 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: of the street. I asked Gerard Brown, who's the program 110 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: manager for the d C rodent In vector controlled team, 111 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: all about this, and he told me there's really no 112 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: way to know how many rats they exterminated, so we 113 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: have that estimate twenty or so burrows. But because the 114 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: ground is their final resting place, the city is basically 115 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: left with a rat graveyard and they don't really know 116 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: what's under there. That all sounds pretty terrible for you, 117 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: Like how many times a day does this team have 118 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: to pump carbon monoxide into the ground and slap rats 119 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: over the head with shovels. The shirt answer is many 120 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: times a day, but I'm gonna let Gerard Brown answer 121 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: that question. So the inspect their performers go twal complaints, 122 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: and then when they finished a tail, then they go 123 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: to some like it's where they've been working on, you know. 124 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: So the complaint has been going up. Yeah, I read 125 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: somewhere that last year the complaints have doubled or even 126 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: more than doubled. Since I'm sure are there more rocks? 127 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: Have they migrated maybe, you know, because of the phase 128 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: of the pandemic. So the uptick I believe they come 129 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: from a few things, you know, Um, the mild winners 130 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: for the last decade, the more people over seven hundred 131 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 1: thousand people in DC that live here, and then the 132 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:36,959 Speaker 1: visitors coming and going, and then you have food establishments, 133 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: a new food established within the last two years, you know, 134 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: and then the pandemic hit and people work from home. 135 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: When they work from home, they generate more trash. People 136 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: don't use it over was posed like this shoe, you know, 137 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: those containers that the food comes in, They throw them 138 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:03,319 Speaker 1: into trash without wash them out. Yeah, garbage and sanitation 139 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: is going to be a major theme in this episode. 140 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: Definitely more on that later. So as far as rat 141 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: control goes, there's carbon monoxide And I asked Brown what 142 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 1: other techniques the team uses to keep the rat population 143 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 1: under control. He told me they also use what's called 144 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: tracking powder. Basically, they shoot it in a hole in 145 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: the ground and it gets on the rats for and 146 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:28,839 Speaker 1: when the rats groom themselves, they ingest the powder and die. 147 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: So still pretty grim. But there are also less conventional 148 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,719 Speaker 1: methods on the table that don't always entail killing rats. 149 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: For example, contraception. So back in twenty nineteen, the DC 150 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: team piloted rat birth control. I also wanted to ask 151 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: Brown about something I had read about that was happening 152 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: in Chicago using feral cats to fight the rats. Are 153 00:09:54,120 --> 00:10:01,239 Speaker 1: using cats, but it was a company no, mostly terrious, 154 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: but we get pushed back. You know, people don't when 155 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 1: scaling rats, So we're not gonna do that, got it? 156 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: I wish we through. Yeah, I'll go by a whole month, Catherine. 157 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,959 Speaker 1: Listening to all of this, it seems like cities are 158 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: just not up to the job, like the rats are 159 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: gonna win. How did all of this and how did 160 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: you leave it? I think the team for letting me 161 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: pride during a very routine part of their day. We 162 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: took a photo together. Then Brown asked me for my address. 163 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 1: I told him, and he knew my exact block well, 164 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,199 Speaker 1: in large part because it is such a hospitable area 165 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: for rats. He said that he's going to bring the 166 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: team by some time to help get this problem under control. 167 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: So that was pretty exciting. But I think ultimately what 168 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 1: I took away from this experience, besides just how visceral 169 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: it was, was just the serious limitations of these methods 170 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: of rat control and how a city like DC can 171 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: get ahead of the problem. Catherine, Rebecca, and Sam assure 172 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: me that by the end of this episode they will 173 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: actually reveal how cities can get control of rats, and 174 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: we'll start talking about that after the break. All right, Rebecca, 175 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 1: you've answered my question. Why do we have to get 176 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: rid of rats? Catherine told us they're really hard to 177 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: get rid of. What do we do? Yeah? So, I've 178 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: never had any particular fondness for rats out in their 179 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: natural urban habitat, but through the reporting process on this story, 180 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: I realized that I actually have no idea what the 181 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: answer is to that question. So I reached out to 182 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 1: somebody I knew could help me out. Dr Bobby core Again. 183 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: This man has a PhD in urban rodentology from her 184 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: due He consults with you as cities on their pest problems, 185 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:02,959 Speaker 1: and basically any question you have about rats. He can 186 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: answer it. He answered all of my questions ever so patiently, 187 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: all while we were taking what he called a rat 188 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,839 Speaker 1: walk about around the city. Oh see overhears one right, 189 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: there's scary it underneath the roll weepen and there he 190 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: goes down that ramp. This was a little unexpected because 191 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 1: around this time it was about ten thirty in the morning, 192 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: and according to Dr Corrigan, that is long after a 193 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: rats general bedtime. I usually say two hours past dusk 194 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: is your rat rat o' clock. It didn't seem like 195 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 1: all that big a threat, just to see one rat 196 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,719 Speaker 1: hanging out on this plastic dumpster. But behind us was 197 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,239 Speaker 1: a trash can with an ad that said the opposite 198 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: says a little it it can't can lead to big problems. 199 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: Name is a silhouette. I'm a big scary. We gotta 200 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: make rats scary. You know it's Hollywood. They love to 201 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:57,559 Speaker 1: make rats scary. Some great scientists out in Vancouver. They 202 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: published a paper in two thousand nineteen showing that when 203 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 1: rats get close to us and live in our quarters, 204 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: psychologically it really wax us out. We can't deal with it. 205 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: We feel attacked, we feel invaded, and so forth. So 206 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: we cannot have our serenity in our own nest that 207 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: we depend on. And you see a rat scurry across 208 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: your living room floor when you sit down and relax, 209 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: or in your kitchen when you get up at night 210 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 1: to get a snack or something, a rat goes across 211 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: the kitchen sink, you're not going back to sleep. Dr 212 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: Corrigan told me to figure out how to get rid 213 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: of the rats. You've got to figure out what makes 214 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: them tick. When I was a kid, I love Charlock Holmes. 215 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: So I think that's why I'm a rot intologist, is 216 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,079 Speaker 1: it's always Sherlock Holmes. And so when I walk about 217 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: in parks, I usually typically want to see where the 218 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: burrows are. It's a little bit like I like the 219 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: trout fish with fly fishing, and you learn how to 220 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: read the stream. So there won't be burrows any old 221 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,959 Speaker 1: place in the park. There'll be burrows specifically in some 222 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: areas in the park. And that's what we're gonna look. 223 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,839 Speaker 1: Look floors. Now. One of the things I'm I'm gonna 224 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: be visually searching for, you know, is um to see 225 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: anything heavy like ornamental rocks that we may plant or 226 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: naturally occurring rocks. So here right here we have a 227 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: very large rock. You'll notice this big mound of soil 228 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: here with all the gravelly look to it. That tells 229 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: you that's the main entrance. So rats have a nest 230 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: that is typically six ft long and has three doors. 231 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: One is the main door and two are what we 232 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: call escape holes, you know, or we could think of 233 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: like we have side doors and backdoors to our own homes. 234 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: But this is classic. There's another factor here is I 235 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: keep stressing, and that is even though that would make 236 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: good for a department complex, the question is is it 237 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: in fairly close proximity to getting out of the house, 238 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: getting to their food quickly, and getting back to the 239 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: house safely. Because we have a major thoroughfare right out 240 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: on the street here, and you'll notice restaurants right So 241 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: from here, even you know, along the street in any 242 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: direction is within the home range of these rats easily. 243 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: Research has shown good research. Recent research has shown in 244 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: a city rat it can start at ninety feet in 245 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: any directions for the short end of the home range 246 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: and go all the way up to four feet in 247 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: any direction. So these rats are gonna benefit probably from 248 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: the bounty. What that that busy street with the restaurant's offers. 249 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: From there, Dr Corgan and I left the park and 250 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: we kept on trucking and our walkabout continued down one 251 00:15:56,040 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: of the side streets nearby. So in the park, you 252 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: we're looking for hard surfaces that they could borrow under. 253 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: Now we're walking on sidewalk and there's asphalt streets to 254 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: the left. What are you looking for here? What I'm 255 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: looking for here is as sidewalks, as as mentuliad as 256 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: they get older themselves, we will see the old sidewalkers deteriorating, right, 257 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: and so owners kind of falling apart. It's just missing, 258 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: you know. For me, every time I see any kind 259 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: of a shadow or a crack, you know, when I 260 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: walk with my wife sometimes we're going someplace fun for 261 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: dinner or something, and she can tell. She can tell like, Okay, 262 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: you're looking for rats. You know we're gonna have a 263 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: good time, right, I'm like, you bet, we're gonna have 264 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: a great time. So, you know, it's hard to shut 265 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: it off sometimes I guess it's my point, you know, 266 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: But that's I don't know the world of a rodentologist. 267 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: It's how can you shut it off? So you know, yeah, 268 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: we have this you know, cobble stone, and it's very active. 269 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:09,640 Speaker 1: You know, we can see yeah, thank you here he said, 270 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: it's a home for rats. You must live here, so 271 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: so it's very you know, it's in our face all 272 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: about time, all that time in a city that's getting older, 273 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: there are holes and harbors for rats all over the place. 274 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 1: After maybe twenty minutes with Dr Corrigan, I couldn't stop 275 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: myself from interrupting him every couple of minutes or so, 276 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: what's that? What about that one? These little holes and 277 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: cracks in the sidewalk, I just couldn't stop seeing them. 278 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 1: But he told me that there are some simple telltale 279 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: signs to tell the difference between a hole and a home. 280 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 1: So that's a whole and it's very active. And the 281 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,199 Speaker 1: reason you would know as a rating cactive kind of 282 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 1: thing that's very active as when rats travel run is 283 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 1: they lose hair. What two is their their coats are 284 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: always dirty and greasy um and and they don't have champoo. 285 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,160 Speaker 1: So as they come and go, you will notice right 286 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: here a grease stain. There was this little oblong hole 287 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: right on the edge of the sidewalk, and it has 288 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 1: this kind of dark brownish, grayish, vaguely shiny but too 289 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,400 Speaker 1: dirty to be called shiny splotch just to the right 290 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: of it, and that's how he knew that this was 291 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: a rat port of entry. The grease stain disgusting, illuminating. Rebecca, 292 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: you told me about this recently, and I saw the 293 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: photo you took, and I have to say it really 294 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: changed things for me. I've told everyone, my parents, my roommates, 295 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: I am always on the lookout for that greased stain. Now. Yeah, 296 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: it's now a regular part of my nightly walks is 297 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: to look for these grease stains. I, however, am going 298 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:03,640 Speaker 1: to do everything I can not to see any grease stains. 299 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: Well for anyone who's also looking for other signs, maybe 300 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: there's not a grease stain, but you still feel convinced 301 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: that there's a rat neath that sidewalk. Dr Corrigan told 302 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: me that's another telltale sign. As the rats tunnel, they 303 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: leave the sidewalk without support underneath. They dig out all 304 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: the dirt and so then there's just empty space and 305 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,399 Speaker 1: that can't hold up the heavy sidewalk, so it just 306 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 1: cracks under the weight. Rebeccaously to one of the other 307 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: big questions, I had, which is in a city like 308 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: New York, just how many rats are there under the 309 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: streets West. I'm gonna do you the favor that Dr 310 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,959 Speaker 1: Corrigan did for me. I'm gonna let you down easy. 311 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 1: Nobody knows. Is there a method to quantify the number 312 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,919 Speaker 1: of rats in the city. The answers, No, there's a 313 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: lot of tunnels lower feet and they go every single 314 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,120 Speaker 1: which way, and you're piled on top of each other, 315 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: and it's kind of thing. They're all shaped mammals. And 316 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: so when we built our cities around the world, all 317 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: our cities are like this. And it's not that the 318 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: rats are living inside the pipes, but when we put 319 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: in a pipe, we have to create a space for that. No, 320 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, that is not an acceptable answer in a 321 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: podcast episode dedicated to getting rid of rats and cities. 322 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna need at least a ballpark figure. This 323 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: is the best we can do for you. A study 324 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 1: from published in the Journal of the Royal Statistical Society 325 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: estimates that they're about two million rats in New York City. 326 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 1: And I have to say this study from has gotten 327 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: a lot of play if you google facts and figures. 328 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: But how many rats are in America's big cities. This 329 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: is all you are going to get. I asked Jared 330 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 1: Brown and d C the same question. Here's what he 331 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,640 Speaker 1: told me. There's no way you can know how many 332 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: rests in that area, you know. Um, so we just 333 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 1: measure the complise, but we know is an increase in 334 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: companise those increasing rats. Right, That's basically what Dr Corrigan 335 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: was telling me. There's no way to know how many 336 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: rats there are because there's no way to know where 337 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 1: all the rats are. There's just too many places that 338 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 1: they could be. So the amazing thing about the rat 339 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:21,360 Speaker 1: and its space is if if the skull can fit through, 340 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,120 Speaker 1: the rest of the body can do the limbo. So 341 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: all you need is a half inch height for a 342 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: skull tell millimeters one basketball space can harbor an entire 343 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 1: family of rats because they like to hugger mugger together 344 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,640 Speaker 1: and they all get really close and inside the basketball 345 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 1: they're like, this is a great apartment, right, they can 346 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 1: do that. They're true New Yorkers. True, they are the 347 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 1: true New Yorkers, and true you know every place after 348 00:21:47,440 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: the break, rats hate this one simple fix. So all 349 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 1: over the world, you know, um, in my contacts and 350 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:08,199 Speaker 1: my travels for cities I do surveys in where populations 351 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: are up globally. We're not sure why, but you know, 352 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: the scientists we get together and we we think along 353 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: these lines global warming. The winters are less severe. Repeatedly 354 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: for the past decade, We've had the warmest decade in 355 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 1: old history. That's one thing, too, is human populations are increasing. 356 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: More humans, more trash, more protein. Cities are getting older, 357 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: whatever city you want to pick, they're getting older. As 358 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:42,360 Speaker 1: the city gets older, the infrastructures keep deteriorating. That's why 359 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: I pointed out the patris here. So as buildings deteriorate, 360 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:50,439 Speaker 1: the foundations deteriorate. The soon as deteriorate, infrastructure deteriorates, we 361 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:55,880 Speaker 1: create more inaccessible harbridges for an animal that only these 362 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,919 Speaker 1: twelve millimeters. At this point in the walk about, I 363 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: was kind of starting to get it why killing the 364 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: ones that we can find just doesn't quite cut it. 365 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: As far as controlling the population, Dr Corrigan told me 366 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 1: an example of a better solution was in a pretty 367 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: surprising place. The pandemic. You know, the city was shut down. 368 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: All the cities at Philadelphia shut down, all the East 369 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,399 Speaker 1: Coast cities the West coast. All our cities shut down 370 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 1: for a couple of months. We were like no restaurants. 371 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 1: The rats themselves were stressed. So when they used to 372 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,640 Speaker 1: come out at night in any city and and try 373 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,360 Speaker 1: to get food in what used to be every night 374 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:37,400 Speaker 1: the dumpster had food, well no more dumpster. They need 375 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: food just like we need food. So I was doing 376 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: surveys right after the pandemic shutdown. I saw rats going 377 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: at each other. I saw rats attacking each other. I 378 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: saw colonies completely leave the area for parts of known 379 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: probably residential trash quite frankly. But after that we hurt 380 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 1: their numbers. We don't know by how many, probably hundreds 381 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: of thousands, maybe millions of rats to come during that period. Also, 382 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: Gerard Brown and d C told me earlier that COVID 383 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: led to a huge surge in residential trash because so 384 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: many people were working from home. So in d C, 385 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 1: at least in those early days, neighborhood rats had a 386 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 1: field day. But I guess the bottom line here is 387 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: that there's a direct link between the amount of garbage 388 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 1: in an area and the size of the rat population. 389 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 1: Rats cannot thrive without nearby trash. Remember how we said 390 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: they only travel a few hundred feet. That means in 391 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 1: a place like New York City, rats who had made 392 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: restaurant leftovers their food staple were down on their luck. 393 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,719 Speaker 1: In Yeah, and rat populations here in New York actually 394 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: felt a historic lows during lockdown, But as the city 395 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: came back, so did the rat population big time. Rebecca 396 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 1: and I got a chance to speak to New York 397 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: City Sanitation Commissioner Jessica Tish. She told us that budget 398 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 1: cuts to the apartment early in the pandemic made a 399 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 1: city already famous, fulfilled even dirtier, which made a perfect 400 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: breeding ground for rat resurgence. I think most New Yorkers 401 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: noticed that the city got meaningfully dirtier, and we are 402 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: intent on cleaning it up. One of the reasons the 403 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: city got dirtier during the pandemic, to my mind, is 404 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 1: at the very beginning of it, the cleanliness function was 405 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: completely defunded from the Department of Sanitation, and those are 406 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 1: their basic bread and butter services, So things like clearing 407 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: out the litter baskets so that they don't overflow on 408 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 1: street corners, sweeping the streets so that our curb lines 409 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 1: aren't riddled with litter, cleaning the highway on an off ramps. 410 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:54,159 Speaker 1: Those basic things were completely cut at the beginning of 411 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: the pandemic in March or April, and Mayor Adams not 412 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: allly restored them, but funded them at the highest levels 413 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: that New York City has ever seen. And Mary Eric 414 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: Adams famously hates rats. Everyone that knows me they know 415 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 1: one thing. I hate rats. I hate rats. I'm terrified 416 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: rats so much so that New York is actually hiring 417 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: a rats Are to take charge of all things. Wrote 418 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: in Control related the job postings asking for someone and 419 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: I quote somewhat bloodthirsty who's able to burrow into the 420 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 1: depths of city government to get the job done. Commissioner 421 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: Tish says that managing our waste equals managing the rat population, 422 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 1: and New York produces a lot of trash. To give 423 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 1: you some context, keep in mind that every day New 424 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 1: Yorkers put out twenty four million pounds of trash and 425 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: recycling on our curbs. That's every day, every single day. 426 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 1: That is two million pounds that sits our curbs for 427 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: fourteen hours a day. It's a lot, but that's about 428 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: to change. A new policy that starts in April is 429 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: really going to cut down on the amount of time 430 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: those bags sit out, and the rats, they are not 431 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: going to be happy about it. We know that one 432 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: third of all material in the black bags is organic waste, 433 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: it's food, and so you can see how shrinking the 434 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: amount of time that those black bags sit on the 435 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: curb will actually make quite a meaningful difference in how 436 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: the city looks and fields, to say nothing of the 437 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: fact that the black bags right now serve as the 438 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 1: all you can eat buffet for rats. It's like the 439 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 1: all night, all you can eat buffet for rats, and 440 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 1: so one of the goals of shrinking the amount of 441 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 1: time that the bags spend on the curb is shutting 442 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 1: down that all night, all you can eat rat buffet, 443 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: or at least dramatically limiting it's ours. So here in 444 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,919 Speaker 1: d see the impact of garbage and garbage collection is 445 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: definitely on people's minds, but we haven't seen a change 446 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,680 Speaker 1: like the one in New York yet. There are plenty 447 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: of residents, though, who want to get ahead of this 448 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,959 Speaker 1: problem by changing up the way we handle our trash, 449 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: like Kim Patterson, who is the Advisory Neighborhood Commissioner for Brightwood. 450 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: She was one of a bunch of community members who 451 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: came by while the road in control team serviced the 452 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: block that's getting worse. There's garbage. You can see that 453 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,359 Speaker 1: the garbage bins are not secure. Um the owner pays 454 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 1: the fines and still doesn't secure the cans. The residents 455 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: are terrified to throw their trash there. They open the door. 456 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: There's rats are trash cans are plastic. The ronus eat 457 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: through them. Just give us a new can. We have 458 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: all these rules. There's a hole in the can that 459 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: the homeowner did not cause it was the rat. Also, 460 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 1: the trash cans that are public, they are open. There's 461 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: no lead. Let's get some type of control where the 462 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: trash can be in closed so the rest don't fest 463 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: and feast every night. Yeah, isn' is all well and 464 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: good as an immediate solution. If you've got a problem, 465 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: you've got to handle it. But controlling the rats food supply, 466 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: ak the trash supply can cut their population down at 467 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: the source. The only problem with that it requires a 468 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: serious amount of buy in from all of us. If 469 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: you give the rap one bad property out of ten 470 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: beautiful properties, that one bad property will feed the entire block. Rats, 471 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: just that one property, the whole block goes down based 472 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: on one bad neighbor. It takes everybody to be honest 473 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: with you, and most people do not want to be 474 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: involved in rat control duties. When they get up every day, 475 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: it's the last thing on their radar screen, you know. 476 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: And there's the weakness nobody gets. Some say, gee, I 477 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 1: wonder if I should do a rats are in my 478 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: own property and cut it off At the past everyone says, gee, 479 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: I have rats. They pick up the phone, pick up 480 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: the Yellow Pages, so to speak, and call somebody put 481 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: out empois Thanks to Catherine, Rebecca and Sam, and thanks 482 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: to you for listening to us here at The Big Take. 483 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: It's a daily podcast from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. 484 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: For more shows from my Heart Radio, visit the I 485 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen, and 486 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: we'd love to hear from you. Email us questions or 487 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: comments to Big Take at Bloomberg dot net. The supervising 488 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: producer of The Big Take is Vicky Bergolina, our senior 489 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 1: producer is Katherine Fink, our producer is Rebecca Chassa, and 490 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: our associate producer is Sam Gobauer. Raphael I'm Seely is 491 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: our engineer. Our original music was composed by Leo Sidrin. 492 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: I'm Westcasova will be back on Monday with another big take. 493 00:30:49,600 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: Have a great weekend into a pot b