1
00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:05,359
Speaker 1: Wine Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast.

2
00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:12,200
Speaker 2: Okay, so this week's Therapy Thursday, Whine about It, we

3
00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,720
Speaker 2: have a very special guest that actually both Catherine and

4
00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:21,759
Speaker 2: I know. I'm how do I say this, I'm almost

5
00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,720
Speaker 2: having like a hard time tiptoeing around certain things because

6
00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,360
Speaker 2: there's certain things that I had to edit out of

7
00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,320
Speaker 2: maybe something.

8
00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:31,880
Speaker 3: That I was working on.

9
00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:36,720
Speaker 2: So long story short, the woman that's about to come

10
00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:39,239
Speaker 2: on has been someone in both of our lives for

11
00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:39,760
Speaker 2: a while.

12
00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,320
Speaker 1: I go ahead, I don't know her that well. I

13
00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,040
Speaker 1: do not know her that well. No, I know more

14
00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,760
Speaker 1: of her, so you know her better than I. But yes,

15
00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:53,400
Speaker 1: I have known of her and her story for a while.

16
00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:58,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she's we really connected because we were going

17
00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,200
Speaker 2: through the same thing the same time seven years ago.

18
00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:04,760
Speaker 2: So she has a book out, well, first of her

19
00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,880
Speaker 2: name's Brandy Wilson, and she's she's incredible. But she's got

20
00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:11,759
Speaker 2: a book out called Better Than Okay, and I'm halfway

21
00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:13,880
Speaker 2: through it. But it's finding hope and healing after your

22
00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:15,640
Speaker 2: marriage ends. I even did like a little thing for

23
00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,080
Speaker 2: her on her book just to because it's I just

24
00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:20,400
Speaker 2: I love I love.

25
00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:22,240
Speaker 1: Well.

26
00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:23,760
Speaker 2: First of all, I just I love how she writes too.

27
00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:25,280
Speaker 2: It's just very real. You feel like you're in it.

28
00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:27,880
Speaker 2: So let's get her on. Welcome to the show.

29
00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:28,560
Speaker 3: Brandy Wilson.

30
00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:30,640
Speaker 4: Hey, y'all.

31
00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:33,680
Speaker 1: Hi Katherine.

32
00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:35,319
Speaker 4: I'm wondering if I get to see you.

33
00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,039
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm usually not on these, and I was like,

34
00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,039
Speaker 1: I want to be there when Brandy is on. So

35
00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:41,800
Speaker 1: I'm here today.

36
00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:42,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

37
00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,480
Speaker 2: She had a she had a direct, you know, and

38
00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:46,600
Speaker 2: I remember that you had mentioned it to me and

39
00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:48,240
Speaker 2: I was like, all right, Kat, this is my episode

40
00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:48,680
Speaker 2: with Brandy.

41
00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:49,440
Speaker 3: She's like, I'm there.

42
00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:51,720
Speaker 1: Yep, I'm here. Yeah, so excited.

43
00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,080
Speaker 4: That makes me happy. Jana, how are you feeling?

44
00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:56,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm feeling all right.

45
00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,480
Speaker 2: I just got off a flight early morning, you know,

46
00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,800
Speaker 2: four am lobby call, so that was fun. But yeah, no,

47
00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,480
Speaker 2: I'm feeling you know, I'm feeling good, feeling feeling pregnant,

48
00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:11,320
Speaker 2: feeling feeling the uh you know, every week it's like, oh,

49
00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:13,080
Speaker 2: this hurts a little bit more.

50
00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:15,760
Speaker 3: This is this is harder. But no, it's great.

51
00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,520
Speaker 2: I'm super grateful and I'm just I'm so proud of

52
00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,400
Speaker 2: you and you know your book is is out better

53
00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:27,680
Speaker 2: than okay, And first of all, can we I like

54
00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:29,440
Speaker 2: I was saying in the beginning of the show, I'm like,

55
00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,720
Speaker 2: I feel like I need to maybe tiptoe around certain things.

56
00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,480
Speaker 2: And you know, I've read now I'm halfway through your book,

57
00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:40,440
Speaker 2: and the things that you share are you don't you

58
00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:42,520
Speaker 2: don't give it all, right, right?

59
00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,720
Speaker 3: But also if people google, they would.

60
00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:50,360
Speaker 2: Know who you're talking about for sure, Yes, right, yes,

61
00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:55,000
Speaker 2: so okay, so you start with what you want to

62
00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:59,760
Speaker 2: share for the listeners that have that don't know your story.

63
00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:00,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, so.

64
00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:06,560
Speaker 4: You're correct. I did go through a legal edit before

65
00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,640
Speaker 4: the book went to final print, just in order to

66
00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:13,400
Speaker 4: make sure I was protecting myself. I think I worked

67
00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,240
Speaker 4: really hard for it to be my personal story of

68
00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:20,920
Speaker 4: how God chose to begin in me, or how God

69
00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,840
Speaker 4: chose to begin a new work in me as I

70
00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:28,040
Speaker 4: chose to begin again, and to make the story about

71
00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:29,760
Speaker 4: what He had done in my life rather than what

72
00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,040
Speaker 4: had happened to me. I think, you know, I also

73
00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,680
Speaker 4: have children, so I'm not going to air out dirty

74
00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:41,280
Speaker 4: laundry in a book about their dad. I wanted to

75
00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:43,560
Speaker 4: be able to show the strength of how you get

76
00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:48,680
Speaker 4: through really hard things and continue to keep going. So, yeah,

77
00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:52,800
Speaker 4: my story started when I was eighteen and met a

78
00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,520
Speaker 4: guy at college who I ended up dating for three

79
00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:59,280
Speaker 4: years and then was married at that point. So married

80
00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,880
Speaker 4: around twenty one t twenty two, and we were in ministry.

81
00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,440
Speaker 4: He was pastoring a church. We started a church in

82
00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:08,960
Speaker 4: Kentucky and we stayed there for five or six years

83
00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,600
Speaker 4: before moving to Nashville and starting a church here in Nashville.

84
00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:17,240
Speaker 4: Cross Point Church, which you know, I really loved being

85
00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,760
Speaker 4: part of. Cross Point, still exists today. It's still thriving.

86
00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,680
Speaker 4: In fact, you attend Jana, that's still your church. I

87
00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:28,040
Speaker 4: was there for your baptism last year. But we were

88
00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,680
Speaker 4: in leadership at cross Point for fourteen years, and I

89
00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,000
Speaker 4: really loved my life in ministry. I loved being the

90
00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:37,400
Speaker 4: pastor's wife, engaging with the staff, spending you know, tuesdays

91
00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,800
Speaker 4: at the office doing staff meeting with them, having lunch together,

92
00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,560
Speaker 4: having them to my home, just really doing life with

93
00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,479
Speaker 4: that group of people who had chosen to be part

94
00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:53,040
Speaker 4: of the staff community at cross Point. And in twenty sixteen,

95
00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:56,680
Speaker 4: my husband at the time chose to step away from

96
00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,600
Speaker 4: the church and the ministry we had started there, and

97
00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,640
Speaker 4: from our marriage as well as our family and my

98
00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:07,280
Speaker 4: life fell apart overnight. And we all three know that

99
00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,039
Speaker 4: when your life publicly falls apart, it's been falling apart

100
00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,599
Speaker 4: behind the scenes for a really long time. But I

101
00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:16,960
Speaker 4: still did not expect the whiplash of everything changing as

102
00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,680
Speaker 4: quickly as it did. So I found myself a single

103
00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,440
Speaker 4: mom at forty two, kind of starting all over and

104
00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,320
Speaker 4: putting the pieces of my life back together. And I

105
00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:32,560
Speaker 4: realized pretty quickly that the beauty in all of it

106
00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,040
Speaker 4: was that this time I got to put the pieces

107
00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,440
Speaker 4: of my life back together the way I chose. So

108
00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:40,599
Speaker 4: I wanted to make sure that I was creating the

109
00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,840
Speaker 4: life that I loved living, and creating a healthy life

110
00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:45,920
Speaker 4: for my boys and ies. We move forward.

111
00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,400
Speaker 2: In the book, you had said the narrative being repeated

112
00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,800
Speaker 2: was about an overworked pastor who has burned out. The

113
00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,960
Speaker 2: reality was I'd been sleeping alone, not by my own choice,

114
00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,359
Speaker 2: for more than six months. In my heart, I was

115
00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,880
Speaker 2: sure my suspicions were correct. The brokenness went much deeper.

116
00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,520
Speaker 2: Trust had once again been broken, and I was experiencing

117
00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:08,320
Speaker 2: devastating heartbreak. And so I feel like you give enough

118
00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,880
Speaker 2: to let people know the pain that you were in,

119
00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,080
Speaker 2: and I really like I respect that because I think

120
00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,279
Speaker 2: there was a I would could imagine having that narrative

121
00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,800
Speaker 2: and being like, did you just want to like scream

122
00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:24,680
Speaker 2: it from the rooftops or like this is this is

123
00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,040
Speaker 2: what happened, and like this is how like hurt I am.

124
00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:30,880
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, of course I wanted to discream it from

125
00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,599
Speaker 4: the rooftops. I think the way it all unfolded, and

126
00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:38,440
Speaker 4: you both remember, it's just like pieces of information. We're

127
00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:43,200
Speaker 4: floated here and there, you know, being able to really

128
00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,839
Speaker 4: dig in and find the truth of what was going

129
00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,720
Speaker 4: on to forever or it felt like forever, but definitely

130
00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,080
Speaker 4: a few months for things to unfold. And even in

131
00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,679
Speaker 4: that there was still deception and manipulation, and there was hiding.

132
00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:00,320
Speaker 4: So I think I just I had been in that

133
00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:04,039
Speaker 4: scenario quite a few times in my marriage where trust

134
00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,600
Speaker 4: had been broken. There had been a third party who

135
00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:09,960
Speaker 4: was part of my marriage that had happened a ton

136
00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,040
Speaker 4: a few times I was aware of. I realized at

137
00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,240
Speaker 4: the end there were quite a few times, quite a

138
00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,960
Speaker 4: few people I wasn't aware of and didn't know until

139
00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:21,320
Speaker 4: the end. I will say, when I was aware of it,

140
00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:24,320
Speaker 4: we did what we were quote unquote supposed to do

141
00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,640
Speaker 4: and did counseling and you know, kind of tried to

142
00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:32,200
Speaker 4: work through the problems in the relationship. But when only

143
00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:36,040
Speaker 4: one person wants to fix a marriage, that's not enough.

144
00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,560
Speaker 4: So I was there willing to try to fix it,

145
00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,400
Speaker 4: put the pieces of our life back together, tried to

146
00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:43,640
Speaker 4: really be able to get to a point where there

147
00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:48,360
Speaker 4: was a healthier dynamic. But we have to have two

148
00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,160
Speaker 4: parties who want to do that, two parties each person,

149
00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:53,240
Speaker 4: the husband and the wife, have to show up being

150
00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:55,320
Speaker 4: willing to do the work together. And I was the

151
00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,000
Speaker 4: only one willing to do that work. So at that point,

152
00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:04,200
Speaker 4: I moved forward with the divorce. And honestly, you know,

153
00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,560
Speaker 4: never expected divorce to be part of my story. I

154
00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,679
Speaker 4: don't think anyone does. I mean, you guys are both married.

155
00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,120
Speaker 4: No one walks the aisle on their wedding day and

156
00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:14,880
Speaker 4: things like, oh, I'm going to give it a good

157
00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,360
Speaker 4: ten years, or you know, when they're opening their wedding gifts,

158
00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:20,400
Speaker 4: think I'm going to keep this in the divorce and

159
00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,480
Speaker 4: give him that. Or you know, the worst part you

160
00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,040
Speaker 4: know this, Janna, is you don't hold your baby in

161
00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,640
Speaker 4: the hospital and think I can't wait to spend even

162
00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,320
Speaker 4: number of Christmases with you. It is just not a

163
00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,240
Speaker 4: reality that anyone foresees in their marriage.

164
00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:38,839
Speaker 1: I want to not pivot, but pivot a little bit.

165
00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:40,960
Speaker 1: I would love to talk a little bit about your

166
00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:45,360
Speaker 1: boys and how I just I'm so fascinated by y'all

167
00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:49,400
Speaker 1: story in general, but just I have so many questions.

168
00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:51,560
Speaker 1: But just when you decided you wanted to write a book,

169
00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,480
Speaker 1: when you were you know, you were prompted for that.

170
00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:59,320
Speaker 1: Were you nervous to tell the boys? Were you you know,

171
00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,560
Speaker 1: how did that go down? Or are they worried about it?

172
00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,720
Speaker 1: Like I just can imagine that was probably a little scary.

173
00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:04,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

174
00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,560
Speaker 2: And one of your chapters too is I googled Dad,

175
00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:08,079
Speaker 2: and I was like, I got to read this because

176
00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,480
Speaker 2: that's going to be something too where I'm like, they're

177
00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,760
Speaker 2: they're going to google our story one day. And you know,

178
00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,200
Speaker 2: I have left personally a lot of stuff out of

179
00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,520
Speaker 2: my book to protect my children, but there are also

180
00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,040
Speaker 2: some things that you know, they're obviously going to hear

181
00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,440
Speaker 2: or see that you know has been public from both

182
00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,960
Speaker 2: of us, and so I think, you know, obviously they

183
00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:34,080
Speaker 2: saw the headlines your boys they googled at their school,

184
00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:35,920
Speaker 2: I think is what you said in the in the book.

185
00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:37,440
Speaker 3: But then yeah.

186
00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,320
Speaker 2: I mean Tikat's question, it's like, did you then say like, hey, guys,

187
00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:42,960
Speaker 2: I'm writing a book, how do you feel about this?

188
00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:48,560
Speaker 4: Or yeah, you know we are like we have a

189
00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:50,880
Speaker 4: great little family unit, the four of us, I call

190
00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,320
Speaker 4: us us four. And one of the things I did

191
00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:56,960
Speaker 4: when we moved into this I sold the house that

192
00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,560
Speaker 4: I'd lived in when I was married, bought a new house,

193
00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,520
Speaker 4: new to house, And one of the things I was

194
00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:05,480
Speaker 4: super adamant about is like, what do I want the

195
00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:07,680
Speaker 4: values of our family to be? And the first one

196
00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:11,559
Speaker 4: was honesty, Like this is a house of truth. So

197
00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:15,080
Speaker 4: I allowed my kids to come to me with anything,

198
00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,200
Speaker 4: and I'm super honest with them as well. And you know,

199
00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,400
Speaker 4: we had to figure that out. But we had all

200
00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:22,840
Speaker 4: four of us lived under so much deception and so

201
00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,320
Speaker 4: many lies that I just was very clear, this is

202
00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,440
Speaker 4: not the life we live anymore and this home will

203
00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:33,160
Speaker 4: not function that way. So a lot of questions had

204
00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,960
Speaker 4: been asked before I of my kids and about the

205
00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,440
Speaker 4: reality of the situation before I got to the point

206
00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:43,000
Speaker 4: of writing the book. My oldest son has heard me

207
00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,880
Speaker 4: speak a few times. My other boys, you know, they

208
00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,560
Speaker 4: see what I post on Instagram, so they kind of

209
00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,120
Speaker 4: know that I'm not going to write a tell all

210
00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:56,000
Speaker 4: about our life. I feel like I have modeled how

211
00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,360
Speaker 4: to deal with the hurt and the pain that I've

212
00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:03,680
Speaker 4: experienced and also choose to live a life where I

213
00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:07,480
Speaker 4: am healing and moving forward. So I think because they

214
00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,160
Speaker 4: have seen that in the life I live, it didn't

215
00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,400
Speaker 4: necessarily scare them. I also didn't write anything that they

216
00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:18,000
Speaker 4: didn't know. Now, they might not have known some of

217
00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,760
Speaker 4: the details of you know, maybe how I bought the house,

218
00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,120
Speaker 4: or the details of that weekend in Vegas where my

219
00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,640
Speaker 4: husband told me he never ever loved me. They might

220
00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:30,320
Speaker 4: not have known those details. But as far as the

221
00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:34,480
Speaker 4: stuff about trust being broken, and my kids are aware

222
00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:38,560
Speaker 4: of that. They actually when my divorce happened, they knew

223
00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,200
Speaker 4: a lot of information that they filled me on that

224
00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,720
Speaker 4: I was still trying to put the pieces of life

225
00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,640
Speaker 4: back together. So I was really clear when I told

226
00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:49,800
Speaker 4: them I was writing a book, like, if you have

227
00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,760
Speaker 4: any questions, I'll answer them. My oldest son has read it.

228
00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:56,760
Speaker 4: He loved it, super complimentary, told me he was going

229
00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,160
Speaker 4: to take some of my tips from the dating chapter

230
00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:04,600
Speaker 4: O life, which was interesting. My other two have kind

231
00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:09,199
Speaker 4: of skimmed it, flipped through it, you know, haven't finished

232
00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:11,880
Speaker 4: it fully, but have both said like, yeah, we think

233
00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,960
Speaker 4: it's great, and any questions we have will ask you

234
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,480
Speaker 4: when we finish reading. So I've just left that door

235
00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:19,800
Speaker 4: open for them to be able to ask any questions.

236
00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,200
Speaker 4: You know, the I Google Dad thing, I think there

237
00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,600
Speaker 4: were a couple. I think when my oldest son, for instance,

238
00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,480
Speaker 4: was reading that and he saw I Google Dad, he has,

239
00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,200
Speaker 4: you know, heart stopped for a second and he was like,

240
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,000
Speaker 4: she's going to go there. And then the chapter is

241
00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,200
Speaker 4: really about telling your kids age appropriate truth, so it's

242
00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:41,080
Speaker 4: not necessarily about what was found when he googled, but

243
00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,520
Speaker 4: it was about the weight he carried because that's the

244
00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,440
Speaker 4: reality of his life. And then the conversation he and

245
00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:50,520
Speaker 4: I had following his admission that he had googled his dad.

246
00:12:50,920 --> 00:13:05,320
Speaker 3: Right in the beginning of the book too.

247
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,320
Speaker 2: I love that you you start off by saying, you know,

248
00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,000
Speaker 2: it's obviously the book that you never wanted to write

249
00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,400
Speaker 2: or to have, and then same for the people that

250
00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,160
Speaker 2: you know pick it up. But you go to first

251
00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:18,480
Speaker 2: to the first thing I want you to hear is

252
00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,400
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I'm sorry for your heartache. I'm sorry for

253
00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,480
Speaker 2: your shattered dreams. I'm sorry you're putting the pieces of

254
00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,120
Speaker 2: your life back together. And I remember talking to Lisa

255
00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:29,720
Speaker 2: Turkers about that. You know, just women in our situation normally,

256
00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:31,600
Speaker 2: or in a lot of you know, hurts full situations,

257
00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:35,400
Speaker 2: you don't really get the apology you ever want or

258
00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,719
Speaker 2: deserve or and so you know we had, we had

259
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,680
Speaker 2: I believe discussed that too. And I'm curious, how many

260
00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,400
Speaker 2: years has it been now since your divorce? Six and

261
00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,000
Speaker 2: a half six and a half years?

262
00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:50,640
Speaker 4: Wow, yeah, we were separated a year before, but yeah,

263
00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:51,600
Speaker 4: six and a half years.

264
00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:55,680
Speaker 2: So I'm curious have you did you ever receive the

265
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:57,760
Speaker 2: sorry that you felt you deserved?

266
00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:04,320
Speaker 4: Yeah? No, and I don't think I ever will. And

267
00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:06,160
Speaker 4: I'm okay with that.

268
00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,720
Speaker 2: Because I definitely know you know the route that I

269
00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:10,760
Speaker 2: how I got mine for myself.

270
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:15,080
Speaker 3: But like, how did you? Yeah, how you? How did

271
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:15,720
Speaker 3: you walk through that?

272
00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,120
Speaker 4: Yeah? I think forgiveness is a process, and sometimes I

273
00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:24,160
Speaker 4: think we jumped to forgiveness too quickly. And then I

274
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,520
Speaker 4: also think, you know, Janna, you know this, and sharing kids.

275
00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,160
Speaker 4: It's like I have forgiven for a lot of the stuff,

276
00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,280
Speaker 4: but there are still issues that pop up that I

277
00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:36,960
Speaker 4: have to continually work through the forgiveness process with. So

278
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,480
Speaker 4: for me, a lot of that was my own healing

279
00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,400
Speaker 4: journey of being able to you know, I remember one

280
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:45,120
Speaker 4: of the things I did. I was actually at on

281
00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:49,040
Speaker 4: site doing the Living Centered program and a program Oh

282
00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,240
Speaker 4: my gosh, it's excellent. One of the things I did

283
00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,160
Speaker 4: was I wrote down everything that he had done that

284
00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,560
Speaker 4: hurt me, you know, all the way down to like

285
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:02,200
Speaker 4: using my miscarriage as an illustration in a book and

286
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,440
Speaker 4: not telling me until I read it, you know, like

287
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,080
Speaker 4: details of our life that were really hard for me

288
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,600
Speaker 4: to navigate, and I wrote it all down. I had

289
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,360
Speaker 4: a couple of pages. I had a friend there that

290
00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:14,720
Speaker 4: I was close to, and I just said, I need

291
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:18,640
Speaker 4: to read these out loud. So he met me outside

292
00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:20,520
Speaker 4: by the fire pit. I went through and I read

293
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:25,200
Speaker 4: every single offense out loud, and then after I tore

294
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,680
Speaker 4: it up and burned it. It just allowed me to

295
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:32,000
Speaker 4: be able to release a lot of that anger and

296
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,680
Speaker 4: frustration and disappointment that I had been carrying, so I

297
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:39,760
Speaker 4: could get to a point of being able to extend

298
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,520
Speaker 4: forgiveness even though I'd never received an apology.

299
00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:45,240
Speaker 3: Did he know that you were writing this book.

300
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,560
Speaker 4: He has referenced it a few times in communication, but

301
00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,720
Speaker 4: not specific so you didn't you didn't.

302
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:55,360
Speaker 2: Tell him like before, like, hey, I have a book

303
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,720
Speaker 2: coming out. Okay, No, I've always wondered like how to

304
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,760
Speaker 2: how certain people approach it because I when I was

305
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,840
Speaker 2: talking to my legal my legal team at HarperCollins, I

306
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,400
Speaker 2: was like, you know, legally does he get or read

307
00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,160
Speaker 2: or like cause it yeah, they go through legal passes

308
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,280
Speaker 2: and everything, and you know, for me, I was like

309
00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:18,120
Speaker 2: I I I ended up just going I just want

310
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:19,760
Speaker 2: you to know I do have a book coming out.

311
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:22,760
Speaker 2: And what I said to him, I was like, it's

312
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,120
Speaker 2: not about you, like, it's truly about my journey. Yes,

313
00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,000
Speaker 2: my our stories are in there kind of like what

314
00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,600
Speaker 2: you've put in here, like your stories, but it's about

315
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:33,720
Speaker 2: your growth and your healing. And that's what I was,

316
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:35,880
Speaker 2: you know, trying to convey. But I think you know,

317
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:39,760
Speaker 2: it's it's just it's tough because I'm like, do you

318
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,480
Speaker 2: want to read it like beforehand or I'm like nothing,

319
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:44,600
Speaker 2: I'm not going to change anything, you know. I'm like,

320
00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,040
Speaker 2: it's it was like, trust me, I've left a lot out,

321
00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,360
Speaker 2: you know. I'm like because it's.

322
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:50,640
Speaker 3: Really not about.

323
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:55,600
Speaker 2: You can later exactly, but it's like it's protection for

324
00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,960
Speaker 2: the kids, you know, and that's you know, so that's

325
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,840
Speaker 2: I get why you left certain things out. Yeah, but

326
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,320
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, the sorry piece, I was just curious

327
00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:06,320
Speaker 2: if he end up coming back.

328
00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,560
Speaker 1: But that tracks well, here's my question with that, And

329
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,639
Speaker 1: I keep taking it kind of back to the kids,

330
00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,320
Speaker 1: and a lot of it I think is because my

331
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:19,080
Speaker 1: parents got divorced when I was older and I didn't

332
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:24,439
Speaker 1: know anything, and so I went through, you know, my

333
00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:26,679
Speaker 1: mom was kind of the one that left the house,

334
00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:28,639
Speaker 1: that was the one that I'm leaving. So I just

335
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,879
Speaker 1: went through this assumption that she did X, Y and Z,

336
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,080
Speaker 1: and We're not going to have a relationship. I want

337
00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:39,000
Speaker 1: nothing to do with her. How do you handle that

338
00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,440
Speaker 1: with the boy? Like how is their relationship with their

339
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,879
Speaker 1: father with knowing what they know, and like, how do

340
00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,040
Speaker 1: how do you help handle that situation?

341
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:49,560
Speaker 3: Yeah?

342
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,160
Speaker 4: I honestly stay out of their relationship with their dad

343
00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,920
Speaker 4: unless they come to me with something. My kids at

344
00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,720
Speaker 4: this point are twenty two, nineteen and seventeen, so to

345
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,800
Speaker 4: going to college, high school, and it got a lot

346
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,080
Speaker 4: easier when they could drive themselves on the weekends that

347
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,960
Speaker 4: they go there. You know, I have the kids the

348
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,600
Speaker 4: majority of the time. It's like a seventy thirty split,

349
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,240
Speaker 4: so they're with me the majority of the time. So

350
00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:17,199
Speaker 4: I really am the one who steps in and I

351
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,920
Speaker 4: do all the doctor's appointments and the parenting, you know stuff.

352
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,359
Speaker 4: But as far as their relationship, if they want to

353
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:28,479
Speaker 4: come to me to talk about something, I am open

354
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,159
Speaker 4: to allowing them to be a play, allowing myself to

355
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,840
Speaker 4: be a place that they convent. And one of the

356
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:38,240
Speaker 4: things I try to do, Catherine is definitely affirm what

357
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,399
Speaker 4: they're feeling so that they learn to trust their gut.

358
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,320
Speaker 4: I think one of the things that kept me so

359
00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:49,440
Speaker 4: locked into the marriage and the dysfunction and the unhealth

360
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,080
Speaker 4: of that marriage is I was married to someone who

361
00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,359
Speaker 4: was a pastor of a super successful church, one of

362
00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:58,080
Speaker 4: the fastest growing churches in the nation. And everyone in

363
00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:00,919
Speaker 4: my life told me how amazing he was. Everyone was

364
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,800
Speaker 4: telling me how awesome, you know, his messages were, how

365
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,600
Speaker 4: they changed their life, all of that kind of stuff.

366
00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:11,760
Speaker 4: The staff loved working with him, So I almost adopted

367
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,359
Speaker 4: this mentality of I guess I'm the problem if the

368
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,840
Speaker 4: person that I see on stage and the person in

369
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,520
Speaker 4: my home are not the same person then, and everyone's

370
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,639
Speaker 4: telling me he's amazing that. I guess I'm the problem

371
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,360
Speaker 4: because when I had those intuitions, no one was affirming

372
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,320
Speaker 4: those for me. So therefore I felt like I couldn't

373
00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,639
Speaker 4: trust myself. I couldn't trust my gut. I couldn't trust,

374
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:38,720
Speaker 4: you know, my women's intuition because it went against everything

375
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,280
Speaker 4: that everyone else was telling me. So when my kids

376
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,119
Speaker 4: come to me and they want to have a discussion,

377
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:48,080
Speaker 4: I end up having that discussion with them, and I

378
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,399
Speaker 4: affirm the truth of the situation. I affirm the reality

379
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:56,080
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna talk terribly about their dad because I

380
00:19:56,119 --> 00:20:00,119
Speaker 4: know that's not healthy for them. I'm also, you know,

381
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,359
Speaker 4: I try. When I'm communicating with him, I separate, like

382
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,600
Speaker 4: am I responding to my kid's father or am I

383
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,240
Speaker 4: responding to my ex husband. I can be a lot

384
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,439
Speaker 4: more grace filled and kind when I'm responding to my

385
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,720
Speaker 4: kid's father than I can when I'm responding to my

386
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,720
Speaker 4: ex husband. So I think when kids come to parents

387
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:22,080
Speaker 4: with questions and they say, you know, something to the

388
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:26,919
Speaker 4: effect of like, it's like he is always lying. I

389
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,120
Speaker 4: don't think a mother should ever say back, your dad's

390
00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,600
Speaker 4: a liar. She can affirm your dad is incapable of

391
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,080
Speaker 4: telling the truth. So I know that's really hard for

392
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,480
Speaker 4: you to be able to have conversation with him. Now,

393
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,159
Speaker 4: it's the same reality. It's just saying in a gentle

394
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:46,960
Speaker 4: way and also affirming what they're realizing. The truth of

395
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:47,919
Speaker 4: the situation is.

396
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:50,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, you basically said in the book, Yeah, he was

397
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:52,440
Speaker 2: saying like your dad is a liar, one approach you

398
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,960
Speaker 2: could take to affirm their feelings, and then saying your

399
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:56,800
Speaker 2: dad has an inability to tell the truth. So it's

400
00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:01,720
Speaker 2: the same information, different delivery. Firms your child is experiencing,

401
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,359
Speaker 2: but doesn't use harsh language. And I again, I've just

402
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 2: we've talked about it before on here, but like I

403
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:08,760
Speaker 2: know someone that's dealing with that parent, you know, just

404
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,720
Speaker 2: that toxic you know, talking bad about the other parent

405
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:14,360
Speaker 2: to the kid, and the kid just has so much

406
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,560
Speaker 2: anxiety and it's just like filled with it, and it's

407
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 2: like oh God, and you know this person's calling and

408
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,640
Speaker 2: like you know, it's like, oh I hate that because

409
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,080
Speaker 2: I'm like I don't want anyone to feel that anxiety

410
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,199
Speaker 2: or have the other parent. And my mom when my

411
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,679
Speaker 2: parents got divorced. My mom was like, this is my

412
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,200
Speaker 2: relationship with you. Your dad has to make your own his

413
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 2: own relationship with you. And so my dad would, you know,

414
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:35,959
Speaker 2: call and be like, well, tell the kids they need

415
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:37,959
Speaker 2: to see me. And she's like, I don't need to

416
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 2: tell the kids. If they want to see you, they're

417
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:41,720
Speaker 2: going to come see you. And I was at the

418
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,119
Speaker 2: age where I knew of things going on, so I'm like,

419
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 2: I didn't want to see him, and that was my choice,

420
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,359
Speaker 2: and that was his relationship to mend, not hers. She's like,

421
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,399
Speaker 2: I didn't cause this. I don't have to mend y'all's relationship.

422
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 2: It is yours to mend. And that's something that I

423
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:59,479
Speaker 2: always remembered, like even now in this situation where I mean,

424
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 2: obviously you know I have Disney told the story to

425
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 2: my kids, like why we weren't together.

426
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,920
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, we're just better off as friends, you know. Yeah,

427
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 3: so that's my like Disney PG.

428
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,640
Speaker 2: But you know, one day when she asked and wants

429
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 2: out the conversation and age appropriate, I'll be like, you know, what,

430
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:18,920
Speaker 2: what do you you know? And there again, there's certain

431
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 2: things I will not tell them just because I don't

432
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,120
Speaker 2: ever want them to have that version of their dad,

433
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 2: because I think by that time, hopefully they'll they'll they

434
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,919
Speaker 2: won't even need to ask because they'll have the version

435
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 2: that they know for sure.

436
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just such a good point because it's it's

437
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 1: such a happy medium because you know, my parents to

438
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 1: do my dad didn't do that, but I would have

439
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,639
Speaker 1: loved to have been affirmed with I know that your

440
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 1: you know your father is incapable. You know. So it's

441
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,639
Speaker 1: just it's just so fascinating to me because I think

442
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,359
Speaker 1: it's just really important for people to hear, you know,

443
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 1: both versions of how you should act on both sides

444
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 1: of it as a parent, and how to be honest

445
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 1: but not bash like that's that's got to be a

446
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,120
Speaker 1: really hard I don't envy all for that because that's

447
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 1: got to be very hard but so important.

448
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 2: Well, and it's interesting too when you go back to

449
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,959
Speaker 2: what you said about when you're on the phone and

450
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 2: I do the same thing. I'm like, Okay, when I'm

451
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 2: talking to him, it's like, I have to stay in

452
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 2: my you are the father of my children, you are

453
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 2: not max husband. But it's hard because something came up

454
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks ago where we both just got

455
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 2: activated with our past stuff and I'm like, I don't

456
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 2: care how many years removed we are, these triggers are

457
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 2: still there and they still affect me the same way,

458
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 2: no matter how much therapy or whatever. And we both

459
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 2: were just like and we had to were like, all right,

460
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 2: we're in our old marriage and we need to hang

461
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:40,399
Speaker 2: up because this is so not healthy.

462
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 3: Yes, but it's hard to do.

463
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,719
Speaker 2: It's very hard, yes, But yeah, when you can look

464
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,440
Speaker 2: at it, just like, as you know, the father, I'm like, well,

465
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 2: you're not bad. But then I'm like, ooh when I

466
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 2: think of you. But then sometimes when I think about that,

467
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,959
Speaker 2: I'm like, wait a minute, I can't trust you, don't

468
00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 2: let you in.

469
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 3: So it's like a weird yeah line.

470
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 1: Well, and keeping that in mind as your kids get

471
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: older and they have relationships with them, and if things

472
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,439
Speaker 1: come up where they feel like they're not I'm not

473
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,159
Speaker 1: saying that will happen, but if things come up or

474
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 1: they feel like he's not being honest with them or whatever,

475
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 1: and then how you handle that.

476
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wouldn't be like, well, welcome to my life.

477
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 2: I'd be like, well, you know, that's what I think

478
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 2: that's what. That's what I wouldn't have said, well, welcome

479
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 2: to the seven years of my life.

480
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 3: Good.

481
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 2: No, I would obviously be like, you know, sometimes it's

482
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 2: maybe hard for people because of their own past. Yes,

483
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 2: you know for sure, when did you actually start writing

484
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:35,959
Speaker 2: better than okay?

485
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 3: Yeah?

486
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,880
Speaker 4: I started writing it last year in twenty twenty two,

487
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 4: the beginning of the year, and then wrapped it up

488
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 4: in July twenty twenty two, so you know, it went

489
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 4: to the publisher then and went through lunch of rounds

490
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 4: of edits, as you know, and came out this July.

491
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 3: Okay.

492
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 2: And I know a lot can change to you know,

493
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 2: even in a year. So is there something that you

494
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,919
Speaker 2: wish you would have added or something that like you

495
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 2: kind of know now that it's not in the book?

496
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, I do think there are some places I wish

497
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 4: I might have expanded a little bit more. I think

498
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,159
Speaker 4: I think I would have maybe, And maybe it's the

499
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 4: next book, Danna, I don't know, just talk about how

500
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 4: to settle in and really get to know yourself again.

501
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 4: That is definitely identity as a big part of the book.

502
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 4: But I just think so many women struggle with that,

503
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 4: even if it's not divorce, it's you know, they're taking

504
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 4: care of kids, or you know they have jobs, and

505
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 4: their identity is wrapped up in what they do rather

506
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 4: than who they are. Maybe digging into that a little

507
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 4: bit more. I feel like, you know, I've only had

508
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 4: one like serious relationship in the last six and a

509
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 4: half years, and I'm single again. So it's just almost

510
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 4: like navigating a second breakup post divorce. Navigating a breakup

511
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 4: is different than what it was when I know my

512
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 4: divorce happened. So I think just like figuring out and

513
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,120
Speaker 4: being solid in who you are and what you want

514
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 4: out of your life and taking steps to move toward that,

515
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 4: I would probably expand on a little bit more.

516
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 3: That makes sense.

517
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 2: So, I mean, obviously I knew about your relationship because

518
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,640
Speaker 2: we we've you know, we we do. We touch base, yes,

519
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 2: and my heart, I was so upset when you when

520
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 2: you said it, you know, you guys broke up. But

521
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,719
Speaker 2: I also I'm still so excited for you because I

522
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 2: know that you know your your great love is out

523
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 2: there and you know you've done all this work, and

524
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 2: do you believe that or did you kind of get

525
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 2: to the place where you're like you feel defeated again.

526
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 4: I think initially I felt defeated again. I think, you know,

527
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 4: it's life is just such a journey of learning, and

528
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 4: I had a lot of sadness in regards to that breakup,

529
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:07,719
Speaker 4: and it took me a little while to accept that

530
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 4: sadness of like, yeah, I'm sad I don't have that

531
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 4: partner that I wanted, and to be honest, I'm ready

532
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 4: for that relationship. I'm ready, you know, to have someone

533
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 4: who I partner with in life and I share life with. So, yeah,

534
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 4: that was definitely hard, and there's a lot of sadness

535
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,679
Speaker 4: to dig through. I think I didn't expect to be.

536
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 4: My therapist said to me, when you go through grief,

537
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 4: it's like you're swimming in a pool of all of

538
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 4: your grief rather than just the grief attached to that situation.

539
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 4: So navigating that and finding maybe the parameters of am

540
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 4: I grieving this person? Am I grieving the fact that

541
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 4: I'm single again? And just being able to identify that

542
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,360
Speaker 4: was huge. I think one of the approaches I've realized

543
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 4: is I've spent the summer kind of just evaluating and

544
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 4: journaling and processing, is that, you know, there is a

545
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 4: longing in my heart to be connected with someone in

546
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 4: a romantic way again, to be in a permanent relationship.

547
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 4: And I believe the way I'm wired, God created me

548
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 4: to desire connection. He created all of us for connection,

549
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 4: and I'm highly relational, and yeah, I think that's a

550
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 4: long end he placed in my heart. I think it's

551
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 4: something that he wants for me as well. And the

552
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 4: timing I get a little impatient on, but yeah, I

553
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 4: do believe that that will be part of my story,

554
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 4: is having someone that I share life with again. And

555
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,959
Speaker 4: I think for me, I want that for me. And

556
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 4: then you know, a benefit of that would be my

557
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 4: kids getting to see a healthy relationship modeled for them.

558
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 4: So I would love for my kids to have that

559
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 4: reality that they get to experience as well.

560
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I can imagine it's you know, when the

561
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 2: other partner moves on and starts a family, you know,

562
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 2: it's like it's you got to have almost like whiplash. Yeah,

563
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know what my ex is thinking,

564
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 2: but I'm like, again, he didn't want to be in

565
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 2: our marriage, so yeah, I don't think they But I

566
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 2: think if I wanted to be in the marriage and

567
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 2: he was.

568
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 3: I just I think I would my head would just

569
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 3: be spinning.

570
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, Jana, I will say this, by

571
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 4: the time I filed for divorce, I did not want

572
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 4: to be in that marriage.

573
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 2: Well, because it's something you said in the book too,

574
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 2: and I just want to go back to that because

575
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 2: I was like, man, that is you know, that's a

576
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 2: big saying. Is you said you've never missed him, but

577
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 2: you just felt lonely. And I'm like, is that like,

578
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 2: not one moment did you miss like even the idea

579
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 2: of it or the like.

580
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 4: Not even having a partner. I think I missed you know,

581
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 4: I've missed it probably the most. In parenting I talk

582
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 4: in the Loneliness chapter of one of the places I

583
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 4: still experienced loneliness is when one of our kids does

584
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 4: something major and I just don't have that person to

585
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 4: look at and say, like, man, he's a really great

586
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 4: kid and I'm so proud of him. I don't have

587
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 4: that shared experience with someone. Now. I have friends who

588
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 4: show up and family members who show up, and my

589
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 4: in laws are still part of my life. I call

590
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 4: them my outlaws. There's still but I just don't, you know,

591
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 4: have that person to be able to say, like, man,

592
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 4: he's a really great kid, and I do still feel

593
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 4: loneliness there, but as far by the time I got

594
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 4: to filing for divorce, so much had been uncovered over

595
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 4: my twenty years of marriage that no, I did not

596
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 4: want that relationship anymore. I think at that point I had,

597
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 4: you know, he had been out of my bedroom for

598
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 4: a year, he'd been out of the house for six months.

599
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 4: I realized in a lot of ways it was easier

600
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 4: with him gone. I function, he traveled a lot with

601
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 4: work anyway, and the kids and I kind of had

602
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 4: our own rhythm. And and when I removed the person

603
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 4: who caused me to walk on neckshelves and always you know,

604
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 4: doubt myself and really, you know, was harmful for my

605
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 4: self confidence. When that person was removed from my home,

606
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 4: I felt so much relief that I was really as

607
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 4: devastated as I was. And I definitely grieved the loss

608
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 4: of the dreams I had for my family unit. And

609
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 4: then I grieved the loss of the dreams that I

610
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 4: have for myself in a marriage with him. But I

611
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 4: didn't miss him right, So I felt like God really

612
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 4: healed my heart quickly in relationship shift to him. I

613
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 4: grieved the loss of being part of the church for

614
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 4: a really long time.

615
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was wondering how your relationship with God changed

616
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 2: after that. I mean, you know, being married to the

617
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 2: you know, main pastor, and and yeah, it's like, were

618
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 2: you kind of like God would It's you know, did

619
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 2: you not go to church for a while?

620
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 3: Were you angry? Like were you angry at him like.

621
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 4: That? I totally was. I was angry at him. I

622
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 4: was frustrated. I had watched him, you know, restore a

623
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 4: ton of marriages, just because we were in ministry and

624
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 4: we had a front row seat to watching the way

625
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 4: God worked in people's lives. I had friends whose marriages

626
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 4: have been restored from you know, similar situations. So yeah,

627
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 4: I just really believed that God was going to show

628
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 4: up and heal our marriage and heal both of us.

629
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 4: I think in the process of that, what I realized

630
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 4: is that God wanted to heal me so how and

631
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 4: God wanted to restore me, and redemption was found. It

632
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 4: was found in the way that I chose to live

633
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 4: my life as post divorce. But yeah, I showed up

634
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 4: to God with all of that frustration and anger and

635
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 4: bitterness and like, what are you talking about. I have

636
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 4: spent twenty years serving you. My entire adult life has

637
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 4: been you know, forwarding the mission of your church, and

638
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 4: this is going to be what I get in return,

639
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 4: and asking the white questions and fighting about that this

640
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 4: isn't fair and all of that kind of stuff. I think,

641
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 4: you know, for me, it was really interesting what I

642
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 4: realized was in parenting we talk a lot about attachment

643
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 4: and how attachment then moves into your relationship, whether you

644
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 4: have secure attachment or anxious attachment, avoidant attachment. And I

645
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 4: think walking through that divorce, when my life went from

646
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 4: being surrounded by thousands of people all the time and

647
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 4: it shrunk too. I had three people in my therapist

648
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 4: I talked to on a regular basis. I spent a

649
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 4: lot of time talking to God and yelling at God

650
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 4: and questioning God. And it allowed me to create a

651
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 4: secure attachment in my relationship with God in a way

652
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 4: that I didn't expect because He stayed through all of

653
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 4: the you know, cussing and yelling and crying and screaming

654
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 4: and questioning and anger and continue to show up and

655
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 4: remind me that he loved me and he was going

656
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 4: to take care of me. And that wasn't easy to

657
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 4: you know, have to show up that way, but I

658
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 4: didn't have anyone else that I could yell and scream at.

659
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 4: I felt like I didn't have anyone else I could

660
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 4: yell and scream at because I really kind of isolated

661
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,760
Speaker 4: myself out of shame of the situation that was happening.

662
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's something you said.

663
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 3: Earlier.

664
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 2: He had said, like, you know, I never really loved

665
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 2: you anyways, And there was actually a moment in my

666
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 2: book I wrote about that where he said, you know,

667
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 2: I never really loved you, and I kind of know,

668
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 2: I know my take on why I think they say that,

669
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 2: But how did you kind of rest with that knowing

670
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 2: that's not the truth. It's just I look at it

671
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 2: as yeahs like it's he didn't maybe love himself or yep, yeah, because.

672
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 3: For a while I was like, we didn't love me,

673
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:40,919
Speaker 3: like that's all a lie.

674
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 1: Well it's hard, but.

675
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 2: It's heart faults here though. I know a lot of

676
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 2: women have probably heard that. So that's why I'm like,

677
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 2: what is your you know, take on it.

678
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 4: It's so interesting. I was working with a coaching client

679
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 4: yesterday and she said, I don't understand he rewrote our

680
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 4: entire history, and yeah, that's what ends up happening. And

681
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 4: my is they do it to relieve some of the

682
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:06,240
Speaker 4: guilt that they're feeling with the decisions and the choices

683
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 4: they're making. They're trying to rewrite history. They're trying to

684
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 4: take away some of the pain that they're feeling because

685
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 4: they realize that they're causing other people pain, so they

686
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 4: rewrite that narrative and create their own in order to

687
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 4: justify those choices and decisions that are causing pain. What's

688
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 4: your take on it, Danet, tell me.

689
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 2: I mean that's yeah, that's one should be your take.

690
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, everyone's take out.

691
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't want to carry that shame and the sadness,

692
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 2: and you know, so they just want to keep on hurting.

693
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 2: And yeah, rewriting. I always looked at it as like

694
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 2: a mirror, Well you don't love yourself. Yeah you're going

695
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 2: to say probably some truth to that, yeah too, so

696
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 2: we can mold But I like.

697
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: That, And they might just be trying to hurt you

698
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:51,399
Speaker 1: in the moment as well.

699
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 2: But I think at the end of the day, though,

700
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 2: like in the you know, the I think this your

701
00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 2: son was saying, he goes he was sending you text

702
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 2: messages and you said the text that sit out the

703
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 2: most was one that said, I agree, I wouldn't change

704
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 2: our lives for anything, and that made me get teary

705
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 2: because I'm like, you've done so much for your kids

706
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 2: and this isn't the life that you wanted, but you've

707
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 2: created a safe place for them, and I just think

708
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 2: that's beautiful.

709
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 4: Thank you. Yeah, that was a super special moment. I

710
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 4: was speaking, and in the course of my message, I

711
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 4: was talking about how this is not the story I

712
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,320
Speaker 4: wanted for myself, it's not the story I wanted for

713
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 4: my kids, but at this point, I wouldn't change our

714
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,760
Speaker 4: lives for anything. We have created this really great family

715
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 4: unit where nothing is missing, and I was just expounding

716
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,240
Speaker 4: on that. And when I went to the Green Gream

717
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 4: after there was a series of texts and it was

718
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 4: really sweet. He was like, oh, I like, you're outfitting.

719
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 4: That joke was funny. The audience laughed. But then he

720
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 4: got to that point where he said I could agree more.

721
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 4: I wouldn't change our lives for anything, and that was

722
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 4: the point that I was like, Okay, we have redefined

723
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:10,879
Speaker 4: family and redefined our family unit to where yeah, there's

724
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,280
Speaker 4: nothing missing. The four of us are a complete family,

725
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,359
Speaker 4: and we show up for one another and we love

726
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 4: each other really well.

727
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 3: I love that, Brandy.

728
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 2: I'm just I'm I'm so happy for you, and I'm

729
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 2: you know, I want everyone to go get your book

730
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 2: better than okay, finding hope and healing after your marriage ends.

731
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 2: And then what else are you? So you said you're

732
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 2: coaching people. That's what You've been doing for that for

733
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 2: a long time.

734
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:35,279
Speaker 4: I've been doing that for a long time. That's my sake.

735
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 3: So where can our listeners find you?

736
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 2: Then?

737
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 4: Love Brandy Wilson dot com Brandy with an I, and

738
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 4: then that's my website and then on Instagram. I love

739
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 4: Brandy Wilson as well. So well, thank you for coming on,

740
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 4: thanks for having me.

741
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,479
Speaker 2: I miss you and let's get together soon please once

742
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 2: once school starts back up.

743
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 3: Yah. Yeah, Sarah wants to see you too, Sarah Brice

744
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 3: says Chris. Everybody loves everybody.

745
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 2: But yeah, let's I'll text you on the side and

746
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 2: we'll we'll figure something that.

747
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 4: It's great, Tokay, thank you so much for her too

748
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 4: amazing book.

749
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 2: Seriously, it's so good. It's just I feel everything that

750
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 2: you write. It's just honest and it feels to me.

751
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 2: It's like, I know you wrote this. You know it

752
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:22,839
Speaker 2: comes from your voice, which I love.

753
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 4: So I love that.

754
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 3: All right, bye Brandy.

755
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: Brandy, She's such a beautiful human.

756
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 2: I'm so happy for her. I was I gotta tell

757
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 2: you that. When she sent me the text with her

758
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 2: and now boyfriend broke up, I was like no, because

759
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 2: I just was like they're dated for us, definitely over

760
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 2: a year.

761
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 1: And like how soon ago did they break up?

762
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 3: Like a couple of months ago?

763
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 2: I know, but again it's not like it's all I

764
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 2: was also like, but yay, because you're gonna find and

765
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 2: you know, and she's happy, Like she's happier.

766
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: And she knows what she wants. You know, she knows.

767
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 2: I know it's not all about relationships, but you know

768
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 2: when someone's like ready and wants that, like that's where

769
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 2: it's right.

770
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's what she was saying. She is ready,

771
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 1: like she is ready for that companion. Maybe she should

772
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 1: go on the No, I don't know what you're going

773
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: to say, but probably not.

774
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 3: I was like thinking like an app or something we

775
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 3: can you know.

776
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 1: That could be a fun girls nice Iran.

777
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 2: Let's just like let's get her on hinge or something.

778
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 2: Or just start like, oh, you know we should do

779
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 2: because you know I'm met my love on Instagram. We

780
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 2: should just sliden, do I know. I'm like I'm trying

781
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 2: to think. I'm like, what, what person can we hook

782
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 2: her up with?

783
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 1: But that'll be our homework. We'll think about that anyways.

784
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 3: See you light up? Are you