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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh

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Speaker 1: Cubal Clark. There's Charles W. Mr Clean Bryant and Jerry

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Speaker 1: Shad O'Connor rolling rounds it out for Stuff you Should Know.

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Speaker 1: The hair loss edition. Remember when Sinad O'Connor and wheneveron

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Speaker 1: got mad because she ripped up a picture of the

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Speaker 1: boat to protest Catholic Church. Yeah, we talked about this

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Speaker 1: like a couple of weeks ago, did we Yeah? Did Yeah?

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Speaker 1: You go, You're going up in octave each time. It's

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Speaker 1: pretty much I don't remember that. We talked about a

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Speaker 1: saturatite live sketch where Frank Sinatra had her on and

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Speaker 1: the dis and stuff. Of course the great Phil Hartman

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Speaker 1: as chairman of the board. But Nato O'Connor wasn't losing

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Speaker 1: her hair. She made a conscious decision to basically stick

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Speaker 1: it to the establishment and say, hey, I'm shaving my head. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you know, my um, I know that we haven't

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Speaker 1: seen each other, but I'm I'm starting to get a

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Speaker 1: little thin on the crown after my hair being like

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Speaker 1: my only decent defining feature as a as a man

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Speaker 1: for many years. Sure, it's starting to thin out a

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Speaker 1: little on the crown that. I mean, it happens. Mine's

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Speaker 1: been doing that for a little while. It is distressing

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Speaker 1: at first, and then you just get used to it,

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Speaker 1: especially when it's plateaus for a while, like your mind's

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Speaker 1: in a plateau stage and I'm like, Okay, I can live.

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Speaker 1: Let's just let's hold here. Okay, holding here. Um. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is. It's a thing, for sure. It's not the

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Speaker 1: funniest thing in the world to realize your hair is thinning. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not doing anything about it, certainly because

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Speaker 1: I'm I don't know, I just I don't have that

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Speaker 1: kind of vanity of other kinds of vanity. But it's uh,

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Speaker 1: and I don't see it. So I was talking to

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Speaker 1: Null about it a movie crush and he was like,

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Speaker 1: you just gotta back out of every room you walk into.

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Speaker 1: That is good advice. That's like hair club level of advice. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, I'll just you know, I've have I've

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Speaker 1: shaved my hair about once a year anyway, so I'm

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Speaker 1: fine to live that life too. Yeah, And I mean,

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Speaker 1: it just it happens. It's one thing that like really

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Speaker 1: kind of came through and researching hair loss is like,

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Speaker 1: there's really nothing wrong with it. It's not medically debilitating.

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Speaker 1: In most cases, we should say, pattern baldness the the

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Speaker 1: far and away the most frequent reason people lose their hair,

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Speaker 1: both men and women. There's nothing wrong with you. There's

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Speaker 1: no disease, there's no there's no problem with your metabolic functioning,

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Speaker 1: nothing like that. It's strictly cultural, like cultural norms and

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Speaker 1: preferences of beauty. That's it. That's the only thing. You're

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Speaker 1: just kind of involuntary violating beauty norms of your culture.

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Speaker 1: And if the rest of the culture can just get

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Speaker 1: over it, which they generally do, um, you can get

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Speaker 1: over it too. And that's that. And I've just dug

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Speaker 1: my own grave because now I'm going to have to

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Speaker 1: take my own medicine and get over it. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: all my hair is going to fall out in the

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Speaker 1: next hour. No it's not. But you know, we're we're

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Speaker 1: going to cover the types of hair loss and also

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Speaker 1: some remedies, and we'll get into the couple of um

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Speaker 1: sort of prescription remedies that they have found over the years,

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Speaker 1: which really hit me today more than ever, sort of

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Speaker 1: how cruelly it's one of them at least is which

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Speaker 1: is like, Hey, if you're a young and single man

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Speaker 1: and you're starting to lose your hair and you're worried about,

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Speaker 1: you know, attracting ladies, we have something for you, and

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Speaker 1: and it might give you a rectile dysfunction and you

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Speaker 1: might not be interested in sex, but you'll have your

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Speaker 1: hair back. You're gonna have some hair, baby, Like, man,

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Speaker 1: what a what a weird cruel trade off? I know,

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Speaker 1: chemistry giveth in, chemistry take it away. So I guess

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Speaker 1: that was a spoiler, but I think most people know

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Speaker 1: that and know what we're talking about. Yeah, we'll get

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Speaker 1: into that in a little while. But first I think

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Speaker 1: we should talk about if we're talking about hair loss,

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Speaker 1: which we are talking about hair loss, we should talk

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Speaker 1: about how hair grows in the first place, because it

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Speaker 1: is just part of the natural order of things that

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Speaker 1: your hair falls out. There's like three stages of hair

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Speaker 1: growth that applies not just to human hair but also

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Speaker 1: to animal for two, because don't forget you are an

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Speaker 1: animal to human um and so we have the same

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Speaker 1: three stages of growth, um, shrinkage, and then resting. Uh.

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Speaker 1: That's basically the broad strokes of them, but it's a

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Speaker 1: little more interesting in the details. Yeah, I mean I

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Speaker 1: kind of linked um. I kind of thought of it

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Speaker 1: as little gremlins under your scalp, little knitting gremlins. And

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Speaker 1: when you're in that anagin phase A N A G

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Speaker 1: E N, that is when your hair is growing and

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Speaker 1: cells are forming a little protein root at the base

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Speaker 1: of every little hair follicle that produces hair, and that's

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Speaker 1: that's when those gremlins are down there knitting the hair.

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Speaker 1: And they're continuously knitting, like you know, when hair is

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Speaker 1: growing growing out of a follicle. They're just they're hard

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Speaker 1: at work, and it just keeps going and keeps going,

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Speaker 1: and you're cutting it and they they keep sending it

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Speaker 1: through that shoot and everything's great. Yeah, And like that,

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Speaker 1: those gremlins basically form an organ. Each of your hair

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Speaker 1: follicles is basically an organ. There's a lot of stuff

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Speaker 1: going on down there's a lot of a lot of

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Speaker 1: growth factors and proteins working, and cells being converted from

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Speaker 1: stem cells into epithelial cells and um. The um follicle

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Speaker 1: is lined with muscles that are pushing the hair up

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Speaker 1: as new new hair cells are formed. It's pretty interesting stuff.

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Speaker 1: And this phase that you're talking about where the gremlins

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Speaker 1: are really working in overdrive is called the Anergin phase

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Speaker 1: and at lasts anywhere from two to six years for

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Speaker 1: your hair, and you get haircut so often we used

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Speaker 1: to before the pandemic that, um, you don't think like

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Speaker 1: a single hair that you're getting cut like every you know,

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Speaker 1: six or eight weeks. However often you go in, um

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Speaker 1: it's trying to grow out for like six straight years,

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Speaker 1: but you keep cutting it. It must be very frustrating

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Speaker 1: for the hair follicle must be. The next phase is

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Speaker 1: basically grimlins go on vacation. This is the I guess

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Speaker 1: the catagin phase, and at some point this little protein

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Speaker 1: cellsis matrix at the root of the hair follicle is

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Speaker 1: gonna run dry. The follicle stops growing new hair cells,

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Speaker 1: and those grimlins are taking some time off and that

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Speaker 1: hair strand though it's not like that hair falls out immediately,

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Speaker 1: it still is getting kind of pushed through and you

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Speaker 1: think it's growing almost said it's growing. It's not. It's

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Speaker 1: not growing anymore, but it's just being kind of pushed

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Speaker 1: through to the very end. And finally it just pop

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Speaker 1: goes through and that's it for that hair and that follicle, right,

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Speaker 1: and so that that happens, I didn't even given points time.

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Speaker 1: I think there's like, oh I saw the percentage. I

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Speaker 1: can't remember right now, but there's like somewhere I think

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Speaker 1: maybe six percent of your hair is in the cattagin

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Speaker 1: phase at any given point in time, and you lose

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Speaker 1: something like fifty to a hundred hairs a day off

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Speaker 1: of your head totally normal. Those are just hairs that

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Speaker 1: have reached that cattage and phase and finally got pushed

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Speaker 1: all the way out. And I guess between the hair

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Speaker 1: we lose and the dead skin cells that we slough

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Speaker 1: off of our our epidermist every day, if you could

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Speaker 1: manage to sweep it all together into a little pile,

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Speaker 1: it way about one point five grams every day, hair

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Speaker 1: and hair and dead skin you're losing. But imagine if

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Speaker 1: you could like you know, collect that and really get

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Speaker 1: a pretty good pile going after a few months. You know, well,

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Speaker 1: I think there are some people you might do stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. Sure, there are, there's there are definitely there's

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Speaker 1: somebody who does everything, and there's probably some there's somebody

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Speaker 1: who's turned on by the idea of that as well.

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Speaker 1: Out there too, it cuts off to you guys, this

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Speaker 1: skin cell collectors and the dead skin cell um kink kinks. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what about Yeah, for sure, we don't judge. What about

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Speaker 1: the last as long as you're not harming anybody, right,

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Speaker 1: that's right. What is the last phase? Because there's a

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Speaker 1: third phase two that this is really like the resting

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Speaker 1: phase where it's kind of regrouping, Like the gremlins are

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Speaker 1: laying around there, spent, they're exhausted, they're catching their breath basically,

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Speaker 1: that's the I mean, I think their vacation is kind

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Speaker 1: of winding down at this point during the intelligent phase,

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Speaker 1: and that, like you said, that's dormant. The follicle is

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Speaker 1: sort of resting. Those gremlins are resting. Uh, they're forming

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Speaker 1: and they're getting those needles sharp again to those knitting

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Speaker 1: needles sharp, which in the body means they're forming a

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Speaker 1: new protein matrix and they're getting ready to punch the

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Speaker 1: clock and go back to work. And that dormancy is

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Speaker 1: a few weeks. They get a few weeks maybe a

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Speaker 1: few months off before it kicks off in that anagin

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Speaker 1: phase all over again. Yeah, what's interesting, um, is you know,

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Speaker 1: hair loss has been viewed as basically cosmetic. Like you know,

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Speaker 1: almost all cultures. I couldn't find any that seemed to

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Speaker 1: like really have no opinions about it. It seems like

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Speaker 1: all cultures view hair loss as sucking, right, But in

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Speaker 1: the West it's viewed as a cosmetic problem. So there

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Speaker 1: hasn't been like a ton of research into it, certainly

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Speaker 1: very little government funded research into it. Um. I am too,

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Speaker 1: But it was explained in something I read that it's

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Speaker 1: it's just cosmetic. It's like ts that happens, get over it.

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Speaker 1: But in the in um the East, in Asian countries

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Speaker 1: in particular, it's a much less frequent occurrence, but it's

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Speaker 1: picking up UM and they think because of a more hectic,

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Speaker 1: unhealthy lifestyle, more Asian men and like China career in

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Speaker 1: Japan are losing their hair, especially in a younger age,

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Speaker 1: and that is a big deal in those cultures, and

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Speaker 1: so there's a lot more government funding that's being put

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Speaker 1: into it in the last decade or so. But the

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Speaker 1: interesting thing that stuck out to me is that we

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Speaker 1: are learning about how hair grows by doing research on

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Speaker 1: how to prevent hair loss. And we know less about

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Speaker 1: how hair grows than I realized. So basically everything we

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Speaker 1: said is a pretty good understanding, but there's still a

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Speaker 1: lot of different components to the whole thing that science

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Speaker 1: doesn't fully understand that we probably will have a better

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Speaker 1: grasp on than in the next time to twenty years

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Speaker 1: from hair loss research. Yeah, I think it's Asian heritage

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Speaker 1: and African heritage, and uh, it seems like there was

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Speaker 1: one more Native American Native American, right, they think they

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Speaker 1: suffer hair loss less frequently. Yeah, from what I saw,

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Speaker 1: it's Caucasian. White um and African American tend to be

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Speaker 1: the two dominant groups for hair loss, but far and

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Speaker 1: away white men lose their hair more than any other group. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's why I was surprised that wasn't more research, even

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Speaker 1: though it's cosmetic, because it's just largely white man. I

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Speaker 1: was like, well, we need to get on this right now, gentlemen.

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Speaker 1: It's happening to white man. Do I have to repeat myself? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a great point. Should we Uh let's take a

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Speaker 1: break here, and well is that good with you? Yeah? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that's a great idea. Okay, I know that

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Speaker 1: it's funny we get emails where people want us to

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Speaker 1: come to blows over taking breaks. I know, do you

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Speaker 1: guys ever get mad? Not want to take a break?

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Speaker 1: Like not really? Huh? Do you? All? Right? Well, we

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Speaker 1: will take a break then, since Josh agreed, and only

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Speaker 1: because he agreed, and we'll come back and talk about

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Speaker 1: some of the less common causes of hair loss right

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Speaker 1: after this shot. Okay, So um, Chuck, you've heard the

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Speaker 1: word alopecia before, right, yeah, for sure. Anytime I've heard alopecia,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's in reference to the condition that I

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Speaker 1: didn't realize, but it makes sense as an autoimmune disorder

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Speaker 1: where you have no hair whatsoever, no eyebrows, no head hair,

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Speaker 1: no hair on your legs anywhere. Um. But it turns

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Speaker 1: out that all hair loss scientifically speaking of any kind,

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Speaker 1: including you know, thinning of the hair that you and

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Speaker 1: I have, is considered alopecia. And alopecia actually comes from

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Speaker 1: the Greek for um, the Greek word fox, which makes

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Speaker 1: tons of sense. Right, yeah, I thought that was kind

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Speaker 1: of interesting. Um. Supposedly, in ancient Greece there were some

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Speaker 1: foxes that could get a type of mange that caused

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Speaker 1: him to lose hair and big patches, and so they

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Speaker 1: just that's where the word came from. Uh. I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure how it got transferred to humans, but you know,

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Speaker 1: the ancient Greeks marched to the beat of their own drummer.

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Speaker 1: I think somebody was being droll and said, oh, that's

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Speaker 1: that's fox. Like really, that's what I'm getting from. And

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Speaker 1: I know it was it was Hippocrates that popularized it.

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Speaker 1: So that guy, Yeah, that guy, that guy, what are

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Speaker 1: you doing what we do in the shadows? Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: you gotta go that deafing guy. Uh, I know you're

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Speaker 1: rewatching that right. Yes, it's so good. It's a good time,

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Speaker 1: isn't it. Yes, it is. Um. So there are few.

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Speaker 1: Like you said, it means any kind of hair loss,

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Speaker 1: so obviously there are a few different kinds. But alopecia ariata,

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Speaker 1: that is the autoimmune condition specifically that's gonna fool your

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Speaker 1: body into attacking its own healthy cells because it's an

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Speaker 1: autoimmune condition, and especially the hair follicles in this case.

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Speaker 1: And if you have alopecia ariata, you're gonna lose hair

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Speaker 1: and patches. Um. If you lose all the hair on

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Speaker 1: your scalp, that's alopecia total us. And then I think

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Speaker 1: what you were talking about. There is the most of

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Speaker 1: air condition where you know, someone doesn't have any hair

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Speaker 1: on their body at all. I can't remember the actor's name.

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Speaker 1: Who Hank from Barry. I don't know who that is

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Speaker 1: from Barry Barry. Yeah, remember Hank the gangster? You know,

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Speaker 1: I didn't only watched a little bit of the first

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Speaker 1: season of Barry, which one was Hank. Hank was the

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Speaker 1: super lovable, like murderous psychopath who is like the I

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Speaker 1: can't remember if they're Ukrainian. I think they're Ukrainian right there.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't need like work for the Ukrainian mob. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, man, I didn't get far enough into Berry

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Speaker 1: and you met Hank. I promise, all right, Just I

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Speaker 1: don't know if that's the actor I'm talking about, but

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Speaker 1: there is a famous actor who suffers from alopecia, uh universalice.

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Speaker 1: And that's the one where you don't have any hair

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Speaker 1: on your body. Right um. But again, any like any

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Speaker 1: kind of hair loss medically speaking, is referred to as alopecia.

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Speaker 1: That is correct, and so um alopecia, like I was saying,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a autoimmune disorder and they're working on it,

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Speaker 1: but it's basically they don't really have much of a

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Speaker 1: cure for right now. Um. And the same goes from

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Speaker 1: what I understand for another condition that has to do

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Speaker 1: with hair loss called telligent fluvium um. And fortunately for

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Speaker 1: people who have telligent fluvium that hair loss is kind

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Speaker 1: of temporary. But really interestingly, it can come as the

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Speaker 1: result of like a a profound emotional hardship. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: could be a life trauma or something. If you're some

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Speaker 1: suffering from any kind of traumatic event, that could be

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Speaker 1: the case. And this is when basically the gremlins are

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Speaker 1: is uh, they're on like Aerosmith, they're on permanent vacation

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Speaker 1: and it is stuck in the dormant phase for basically

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Speaker 1: longer I guess semi permanent vacation because like you said,

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Speaker 1: it is temporary, but it's stuck in that phase for

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Speaker 1: longer than usual. And you know, it could be anything.

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Speaker 1: You could have a big surgery that was stressful, or

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Speaker 1: given birth or any sort of I mean, there could

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Speaker 1: be just a traumatic emotional event in your life that

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Speaker 1: caused that kicks us off. Yeah, and when your hair

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Speaker 1: is in a normal UM cycle of growth like the

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Speaker 1: Like I said, there's constantly hair that's in the the

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Speaker 1: the cattagen phase, that resting phase of the intelligent phase,

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Speaker 1: of the super resting phase of the re regrouping phase

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Speaker 1: I guess UM. And then more most of them are

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Speaker 1: in the engine phase. UM. With telligent effluvium, you've got

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Speaker 1: the same cycle going on. It's just they stay in

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Speaker 1: that cattagen phase longer, so there's less hair coming out

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Speaker 1: at any given point in time or growing out at

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Speaker 1: any given point in time, So it seems thinner, but

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Speaker 1: again it's just temporary. Once you your body kind of

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Speaker 1: goes back to its previous normal or baseline emotional state,

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Speaker 1: it can it can be fine. UM. This can also

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Speaker 1: come about from a thyroid deficiency or iron deficiency, and

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Speaker 1: both of those things are involved UM. Thyroid growth hormone

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Speaker 1: and iron are involved in cell division. Remember you talked

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Speaker 1: about the gremlins working over time. Well, one of the

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Speaker 1: things they're doing is UM growing cells, dividing cells very

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Speaker 1: quickly to turn them into hair that's growing. And so

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Speaker 1: if those two things aren't feeding this hair growth, UM,

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Speaker 1: that can cause this telligent effluvium too. That's right. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then of course there's chemotherapy. Anyone who's ever had

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Speaker 1: a family member or themselves been through the really powerful

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Speaker 1: medications you have to endure with chemotherapy that can also

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Speaker 1: lead to temporary hair loss UM and you know it's

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Speaker 1: it's targeting cancer cells, but it's also targeting hair cells

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Speaker 1: because what they're trying to do is stop the fast

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Speaker 1: growing cells, and the hair cells are among those. So

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Speaker 1: it is one of the unfortunate side effects of chemotherapy,

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Speaker 1: but again temporary. And you know, our our heart goes

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Speaker 1: out to anyone that's had to go through chemotherapy. It's

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Speaker 1: really rough and most of us have probably seen it

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Speaker 1: through someone that they know pretty closely. And hair loss

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Speaker 1: can be a big, big, big part of it. UM.

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Speaker 1: And then there's u androw genetic alopecia, And this is

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Speaker 1: the one that is far and away the type of

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Speaker 1: hair loss that that most people suffer, both men and women.

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Speaker 1: It's called male pattern baldness is another word for it,

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Speaker 1: but there's also pattern baldness for women as well. Um.

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Speaker 1: It's just that again, if you're a white man, the

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Speaker 1: chances are that you have some form of or some

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Speaker 1: degree i should say of Androw genetic alopecia. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think it's about of anyone who suffers from pattern pattern

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Speaker 1: baldness are women. But it's not talked about as much,

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Speaker 1: um I think, And it's it's not like it's only

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Speaker 1: ten percent. I meant is substantial, but it's usually not

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Speaker 1: as severe. So and it happens in a different way

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Speaker 1: which we'll get to. But um, so it's it may

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Speaker 1: not be as noticeable to others. And I think and

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Speaker 1: that just with you know, probably male biases. The reason

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Speaker 1: why you don't hear pattern baldm has talked about for

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Speaker 1: women as much I would. I think you're exactly right

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Speaker 1: for sure. Plus also, I mean the basis of it

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Speaker 1: too seems to have to do with male sex hormones,

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Speaker 1: So it seems like, you know, like it it it's

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Speaker 1: more directed towards males in general as well. Well yeah,

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Speaker 1: so what's what's the deal with that? So androw genetic

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Speaker 1: um refers to the Greek root word ander for man um,

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Speaker 1: and what it's really talking about our androgen's, which are

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Speaker 1: um sex hormones, and in particular, one of the culprits

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Speaker 1: is a form of testosterone called dihydro testosterone, which is

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Speaker 1: like testosterone on testosterone basically, UM, when testosterone comes in

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Speaker 1: contact with something called five alpha reductase, which is uh

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Speaker 1: some sort of enzyme that you can find a muscle tissue,

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Speaker 1: it gets converted into this die hydro testosterone d H TEA.

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Speaker 1: I feel like we talked about this. Was it in

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Speaker 1: the male puberty? Maybe probably I would guess either that

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Speaker 1: or ballpoint pens one of this too. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: funny as you're saying that, I was trying to think

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Speaker 1: of a funny one, and then there you had it

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Speaker 1: under control. Nice. Thanks, one of us always has it

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Speaker 1: under control. And if then we're in big trouble, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's when it's time to go away. So this d

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Speaker 1: HT stuff, this is this is the this is the

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Speaker 1: weird thing. Like, there is a general understanding that die

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Speaker 1: hydro testosterone has to do with pattern baldness, whether in

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Speaker 1: males or females, but it um, it's not exactly understood

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Speaker 1: how it produces pattern baldness. We just know and have

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Speaker 1: known since I believe the late nineteen forty. These um

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Speaker 1: that if you have pattern baldness, you have a higher

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Speaker 1: concentration of d HT and your scalp than people who

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Speaker 1: don't have pattern baldness. So that seems like a pretty

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Speaker 1: big clue. Yeah. And the reason it happens to both

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Speaker 1: men and women is because both men and women produce testosterone. Um.

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Speaker 1: I think most people know this, but if you didn't

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Speaker 1: pay attention in biology class, you may not know that

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Speaker 1: women produce testosterone in their ovaries. Uh, and just not

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Speaker 1: as much as men obviously, so they have lower levels

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Speaker 1: of testosterone, lower levels of d HT as a result.

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Speaker 1: And so that's why a there in um, they're in

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Speaker 1: the minority as far as suffering from pattern baldness and

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Speaker 1: why it happens to a lesser degree when it does happen, right, Um,

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Speaker 1: But it's a really weird paradox that die hydro testosterone

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Speaker 1: would um produce pattern baldness because we actually need it

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Speaker 1: to produce pubic hair and armpit hair. Um, So you

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have either of those. If you have a d

375
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Speaker 1: HT deficiency or a testosterone deficiency, you have less pubic

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Speaker 1: hair armpit hair, and you don't develop those types of

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Speaker 1: hair until you start to develop testosterone and then in

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Speaker 1: turn d HT after you reach puberty. Head hair has

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with d h T, And yet at

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Speaker 1: some point later in life, d HT for some reason

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Speaker 1: starts to accumulate in the in the scalps of a

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Speaker 1: lot of people, and it actually causes hair loss rather

383
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Speaker 1: than hair growth, which at the very least you'd think,

384
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Speaker 1: you know, what if what if it converted our hair

385
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Speaker 1: into pubic hair later in life, that would be hilarious,

386
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Speaker 1: especially in the areas in the same pattern that you bawl.

387
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 1: But if that just got replaced with pubic hair, hey,

388
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Speaker 1: that would be pretty sweet. It'd be the nineteen seventies

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Speaker 1: all over again. It would be It would be awesome.

390
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 1: You wouldn't have to be Mike Brady getting that that

391
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Speaker 1: tight curl going. I love that, man. I remember that smell. Man.

392
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Speaker 1: I don't know if I don't know if your mom

393
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Speaker 1: ever did that, but my mom um would get the perm,

394
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Speaker 1: the at home perm every now and then for a

395
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Speaker 1: few years in the seventies, and that smell for some reason,

396
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 1: you know how you just tired to tie these things

397
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 1: together in your brain. She was doing it one night

398
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Speaker 1: while the Circus of the Stars was on. So to

399
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 1: this day I can't think of the Circus of the

400
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 1: Stars without thinking of that smell of Yeah, I guess

401
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:26,920
Speaker 1: it's better than elephant poop. Sure, I always I associate, Well,

402
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 1: the smell of elephant poop is not pleasant. There's the perm.

403
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,920
Speaker 1: I know it's I think the perms probably worse than

404
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,640
Speaker 1: elephant poop. At least elephant poop is like an organic smell.

405
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 1: This is just straight chemical nightmare, you know. Um, I

406
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: always associate Pizza Hut home delivery with solid Gold because

407
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: my parents would, um, if they were going out on

408
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 1: a Saturday night, you know, they'd be getting ready and

409
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 1: they just ordered pizza Hut or something for us to eat,

410
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,199
Speaker 1: and we would sit there and watch Solid Gold and

411
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 1: eat pizza Hut. So funny, man, I always thought, even

412
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Speaker 1: as a kid too, I was funny. They called it

413
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Speaker 1: a perm because it wasn't permanent, and I learned it

414
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: stood for permanent. And I remember being like eleven and

415
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 1: saying like they should call it a temp and yeah,

416
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: then getting beat up on the playground while we were

417
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 1: all standing around talking about firms or yeah, or being

418
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 1: the most popular kid at your experimental middle school high school. Perhaps.

419
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 1: Um So back to d h D, we should point

420
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 1: out that that was discovered in uh this ananomous named

421
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 1: James Hamilton's discovered the role or I guess uncovered the

422
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Speaker 1: role of d h D in pattern baldness. So that

423
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Speaker 1: was a big step forward as far as kind of

424
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: getting a semi understanding. Yeah, so what they think happens,

425
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: think we still understand it is that um testosterone comes

426
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 1: in contact with that five alpha reductees in those muscles

427
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 1: that pushed the hair up in the follicles, and that

428
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: in those follicles it's converted to d h T and

429
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: then for some reason, somehow, some way, the d HT

430
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 1: shrinks the hair follicle, and the hair follicle stays in

431
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: the anagen. The growth phase far less frequently produces thinner,

432
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,880
Speaker 1: less robust hair, and then eventually just stops functioning at all.

433
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 1: And that's it. Yeah, they say, enough of this d

434
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 1: H stuff. I used to enjoy this neighborhood, and now

435
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 1: the d h T came along and I don't like it.

436
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 1: He always wants to fight and push people around and

437
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 1: talk about how much he can lift, and uh, you

438
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,160
Speaker 1: want to come to his cross fit class because he'll

439
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: show you what real working out is all about. Yeah,

440
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 1: and his dad's an attorney and he'll sue you for

441
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: all the money you've got. Yeah, exactly. It's just a

442
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: just a general pain. So if you recognize the name,

443
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: if you suffer from pattern baldness, you probably have done

444
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 1: a lot of research and the name Hamilton's might seem

445
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: familiar because he is also one of the cats who

446
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 1: identify first those stages of the of the pattern balding.

447
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,479
Speaker 1: And it's called the Hamilton's Norwood scale. So you've probably

448
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: heard the Hamilton's Norwood scale. That is when huh Yeah,

449
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: I mean I think if you start to um, if

450
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: you have an internet connection and you start to lose

451
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: your hair, you probably find out pretty quickly. But it's

452
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: not just like something people talk about unless it's you know,

453
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 1: people that are all suffering hair loss and they're all

454
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 1: talking about where they are on the scale. It's not

455
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 1: like the Bristol stool scale, which everybody knows about. Where

456
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: the was it the Scoville hot pepper thing? Yeah, not

457
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 1: commonplace like that, but the common uh pattern that emerged

458
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: that was recognized by Hamilton's. And I don't even know

459
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: who was Norwood? Do you know? Uh? Norwood was Mr

460
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 1: Glenn Norwould. I can't even make this joke. Anywhere to

461
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 1: stop here, all right, and that seria on out yea.

462
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 1: So uh. The common h pattern is you get an

463
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: M sort of at the front of your hairline, at

464
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: your forehead. The upper corners start to recede, and you

465
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: might hear it call a receding hairline, and it sort

466
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: of looks like the letter M because like the little

467
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: Eddie Monster, it kind of comes to a point and

468
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: then goes in on the sides. And that's step one.

469
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: I think it's a very handsome look M hairline. Receding

470
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 1: hairline is I think it's sharp. No, I do, and

471
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 1: I haven't you know, mine went straight to the crown.

472
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,199
Speaker 1: I don't really have here much of the receding hairline

473
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: up front. But that's what's next, is the bald spot

474
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 1: on the crown or the vertex of the head. And

475
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 1: the idea is, in the cruelest possible form, is the

476
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: crown is losing it, the forehead is losing it, and

477
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 1: they say, hey, why don't we meet in the middle

478
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 1: and talk about this and that to what happened? They creep,

479
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: The crown creeps forward and the hairline creeps backward, and

480
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 1: eventually they meet in the middle and they go hey,

481
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 1: it's nice to meet you. I'm let's go on vacation forever.

482
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,679
Speaker 1: And then you have no hair on the top of

483
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: your head. And if you if you let all your

484
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: hair grow, that's still there. You're gonna have that hair

485
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 1: on the sides and in the back because it's weird,

486
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,479
Speaker 1: but it just it doesn't affect the sides in the

487
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 1: back of the hair in the same way the follicles

488
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 1: are are different. You basically you go from Gene Hackman

489
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: in the French connection to Gene Hackman in Absolute Power,

490
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: and eventually, if it keeps going, you end up as

491
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: Gene Hackman in Superman, okay, and then eventually the Royal

492
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: tannembombs and then you retire. Right but so um, there's

493
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: also this this possible outcome of the m receding hairline

494
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: meeting up with the bald spot on the crown in

495
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: that there's a little island tuft of hair in the

496
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: forehead that was like the dip or the the lowest

497
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: point of the M or the downward point of the

498
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: M that got left behind. So you still have a little,

499
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: a little cute, little tin tin patch of hair right there.

500
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: That is a possible outcome of this, but more likely

501
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: than not, you're gonna end up with just that ring

502
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: of hair, kind of like Patrick Steward and Star Trek

503
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: the next generation. Yeah, and and again it's because that

504
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: the hair on the sides, the follicles on the sides

505
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: and the back are naturally d HT resistant. Even if

506
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: you have that pattern baldness, it's you know, it's just

507
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: a shame it wasn't reverse because maybe it would be different.

508
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: But you know, people, it is a hairstyle to shave

509
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: the sides in the back and to have the faux

510
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: hawk or the mohawk or the sort of military looking cut. Um.

511
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: There is no hairstyle that is mere male pattern baldness.

512
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: I mean, you can, you can grow it out and

513
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: rocket kind of like Phil Colin did for a while

514
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: in the eighties and that and that's fine, man, we're

515
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: not yucking anyone's young. But if it were somehow reversed,

516
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 1: I don't think it would be as big of a deal,

517
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: like if you lost your hair on the sides and

518
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: in the back, you know, or would it be culturally

519
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: shifted to where that was like, oh boy, yeah, that's

520
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: that's exactly what happened. Because everybody's always got to have

521
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: a problem with something on everybody. Yeah, yeah, I think

522
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: it'd be bad either way. But I think I think

523
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: you're right. Phil Collins managed to rock it out. I think, um,

524
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: Bruce Willis did a great job with it as well. Um,

525
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 1: and he went he started shaving pretty early on too.

526
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: He he just went with it eventually, but he still

527
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: had the stubble. He didn't go like straight up like

528
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: you know, just like Jeff Bezos or anything like that. Yeah,

529
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: he eventually did like Travolta now, like props for finally

530
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: giving in and and getting rid. I mean I think

531
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: he he probably had hair plugs, which we'll get to

532
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: or at the very least whatever. You know, we'll talk

533
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: about the newer treatments. And uh, it's one of those

534
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,479
Speaker 1: things where they're certain male actors where when you compare

535
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 1: photos of them today two photos of them, uh fifteen

536
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: years ago, and they have more hair now. It's one

537
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,479
Speaker 1: of those things really all right. Uh, it's the Jeremy

538
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: Piman effect, Like I think we know what's happening here,

539
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: and you know, especially if you're an actor, uh, that

540
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: that is your I mean, it may be harder to

541
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: just embrace the like, all right, I'll just shave my

542
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: head thing because you may think you may not work

543
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: as much or something, or you may not be appropriate

544
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: for certain kinds of roles you want to get. So

545
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: you know, I could see them tying it into work somehow.

546
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: And and certainly actors are not historically short on ego,

547
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: so that plays a part as well. Sure. I was

548
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: reading a BBC article and then interviewed an actor named

549
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: James Nesbit who's fairly well known, and he um credited

550
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: his hair restoration with basically restoration of his career. He

551
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: started getting parts again that he was getting passed over for.

552
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: He said, his confidence went up, and I mean, more

553
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: power to you. If you want to do something about

554
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: your hair loss, that's fine. If you want to go

555
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: to the Travolta way, that's fine too. But yeah, I

556
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: mean that's um. I think people who who are like, yeah,

557
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,719
Speaker 1: there's before and after pictures, like there's a very famous

558
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: one of elaw and musk Um in his PayPal days.

559
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: He was young, very young when he started to thin

560
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: pretty dramatically. And then now if you like at Elon

561
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 1: Muski has a beautiful, full head of hair, and I

562
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: think Um, he cares exactly bagel of whether you realize

563
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: that he got hair plugs or not, because he's got

564
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 1: hair again, so he probably invented some treatment that only

565
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: he is pretty too. That's right, that's right. But then

566
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 1: if you look at Jeff Bezos, the he went the

567
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: other way. He's definitely got a few bucks that he

568
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: could spend on that, I would guess, and he decided

569
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: not to, which I'm surprised by. Actually, he seems like

570
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: the type who would go full like, yeah, maybe Bob Ross,

571
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: maybe yeah. I mean, he could have a an underground

572
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: illegal scalp farm for all we know that he's mining, right,

573
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with with with hair growth. He's

574
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: looking at sell that stuff. They'll deliver it to your

575
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 1: porch via drone one day, right, something like robot just

576
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: drops a bloody scalp on your porch and a big thud.

577
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 1: There you go put it on. I didn't order to

578
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: just put it on the drone watching you tremble. So

579
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: that is male pattern baldness. With women, if they suffer

580
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: from pattern baldness, it is going to be uh, not

581
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: as predictable. It's not like male pattern baldness in that

582
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 1: the thinning kind of happens more everywhere. It's not like

583
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: it just happens from front to back and then you

584
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: lose all your hair in that you shape that kind

585
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: of horseshoe pattern. It is much slower than male pattern balding.

586
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: And again it's because they have low testosterone and low

587
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: d h D as a result. But again it's women. Um,

588
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, fort of pattern baldness are women who suffer

589
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 1: from it? So uh and it is a thing, you know.

590
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: You know, a woman's hair is very important to their

591
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: esteem and and their body image. So when a woman's

592
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,800
Speaker 1: hair starts thinning and falling out, it is just as traumatic.

593
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 1: I would say more, I would argue much more. And

594
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 1: yeah maybe so, I mean it is certainly not and

595
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: maybe more so because there's not as much attention paid

596
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: and maybe like, hey, is anyone even listening that this

597
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,399
Speaker 1: is an issue? Well, I think women are unfairly held

598
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: to even more um beauty standards than men. You know.

599
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, like guys, really good to shave your head?

600
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: Who cares? It's fine, that's that's a cool look. Yeah,

601
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: women also have their own scaled Ludwig scale, or if

602
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: you want to get fancy the Ludwig scale. They have

603
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: type one to three, and apparently the thinning um is

604
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: tracked on the Ludwig scale along the natural part, and

605
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,760
Speaker 1: you know, type one to three is just different degrees

606
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 1: of how thin it is along the natural part of

607
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: the woman's hair. That's right. Should we take another break. Yeah,

608
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 1: let's take a break and then we'll come back and

609
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 1: talk about all of the things people have been doing

610
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: for thousands of years to combat hair loss. Shot. All right,

611
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: So this is one thing I know for a fact.

612
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: If you are a young man and you are wondering

613
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 1: if this is in your future, just look at your

614
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 1: mom's dad, and you've solved the problem. So that is

615
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: a myth. Allegedly, Yes, oh you will hurt man. You're

616
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 1: just an amazing actor. You always say you're not, and

617
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 1: you really are. Allegedly, I mean, I don't think they've

618
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 1: they've said outright, it has nothing to do with it.

619
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 1: Right now, there was a German study from two thousand

620
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: five that actually found there's a little bit on the

621
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: X chromosome that baldmin share in common. So it's possible

622
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 1: because you get your X chromosome from your mom and

623
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: there's a fifty chance that the X chromosome came from

624
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 1: your grandfather, that's where the basis of that old myths

625
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,959
Speaker 1: came from. It may be true, but what they seem

626
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: to be thinking is that there's way more genes involved

627
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 1: in saying just one on the X chromosome, Um that

628
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: that are involved in pattern baldness. But the upshot of

629
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: it is, um, if you really want to know whether

630
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,720
Speaker 1: you're going to go bald, are your chances of going bald?

631
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: How many bald men are there in your in your family?

632
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 1: That's really what yeah, like on both sides, just start

633
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 1: looking at old family albums and uh, maybe pour yourself

634
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: a drink sure to steady your nerves. Yeah, I mean

635
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: we have pretty good hair and my family my you know,

636
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 1: my brother he has this legendary thick black wavy hair.

637
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 1: It's just infuriating get a trophy. But like my grandfather,

638
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,439
Speaker 1: my mom's dad, he died with a big thick head

639
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: of cur curly hair. And my uncle's my mom's brothers

640
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 1: both have really robust hair. Still my brother does. My

641
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: dad's I'm pretty much my dad. I mean, my dad

642
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: now is eighty ish and um, he started thinning on

643
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: the crown. You know quite a few years ago, and

644
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 1: it's it's pretty thin on top, but it never like

645
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 1: it never went away on top. It's just pretty thin.

646
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: My dad did the same thing. It's like he's got

647
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: a pretty decent circle. You can calibrate a compass by,

648
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:12,839
Speaker 1: but it's it is like, um, it's stayed. He's he's

649
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:17,280
Speaker 1: gonna be eighty three this year, and it's just it's stayed.

650
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: He's still got you know, hair in between his forehead

651
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: and the crown of his head on the sides. Um,

652
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: So I anticipate mineill Polly be similar because I'm tracking

653
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: a very similar pattern that he he tracked as well. Yeah.

654
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 1: I even have the same haircut these days as is

655
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 1: your dad. Yeah, from the seventies. Is it pretty long

656
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: right now? Yeah, it's pretty It's pretty long. And think, yeah,

657
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: which is good. It's good. I'm happy with it. But

658
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 1: I definitely have that balts by just like just like

659
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 1: dear old dad has well, I had been. I had

660
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 1: shaved my head I think more than ever before in

661
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 1: lockdown over the past year. I shaved it fully I

662
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: think three times, and then did a couple of drunk

663
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 1: in late night um, completely bald on the sides sort

664
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:09,839
Speaker 1: of Hawkeye and the last of Injuris movie look okay, uh,

665
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: and it was kind of cool. I kind of liked

666
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: it cool. I have not been doing anything experimental with

667
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 1: my hair. Actually, m has been doing a good job

668
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: of keeping me from looking like totally shaggy. She's she's

669
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: just clean and coming hair. Yeah, that's good. Um yeah.

670
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: And and definitely like shaving the neck that gets kind

671
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: of burly back there, but I haven't. I haven't shaved

672
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: my head in years and years and years. It's just

673
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: not a very good look for me. Oh no, no,

674
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: I like that. I never did. I never liked pictures

675
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 1: of me. Yeah, especially the shaved head with glasses. I'm like, boy,

676
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 1: I saw an old picture of us the other day

677
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 1: that was I'll just say it was pretty funny and

678
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,359
Speaker 1: I was gonna Instagram and I was like, Josh should

679
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: be really mad if my Instagram. Oh yeah what I Oh,

680
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: it just wasn't your best look. You're you. You've come

681
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: a long way, baby. Oh I'm not. I'm not shy

682
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 1: about that kind of thing. I know now. I'm an

683
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: admis though, so who cares? So again, look at the

684
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: pictures of all your family I think, uh, it does

685
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 1: increase with age. If you're white man, about of us

686
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: are going to experience, um, some sort of pattern involving

687
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 1: in your twenties. Um, and that's you know, that's that

688
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,240
Speaker 1: can be rough if you're if you're in your twenties

689
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: and you start to lose your hair um in your

690
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 1: thirties and then so on and so on. I think women,

691
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: I think usually see it later, usually in their forties

692
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 1: and fifties, and menopause can actually kick it off for women. Right,

693
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,879
Speaker 1: Because again, hair growth and sex hormones are very much

694
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 1: tied together. So any fluctuation, weirdness, any sudden change, all

695
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: of that stuff, uh, can can have some sort of

696
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: effect on your hair growth or hair loss. So that

697
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 1: must mean if you have like tons of testosterone and

698
00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 1: you're that dude, you must be really really bald for

699
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 1: early right. You keep getting me. That's another myth, right, Yeah,

700
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: there's like supposedly people who are bald have no more

701
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: testosterone levels in their body in general than people who

702
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:19,919
Speaker 1: have a full head of hair. So we're busting myths

703
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 1: all over the place. Chuck, Well, why don't we talk

704
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 1: about some of these? It's always fun. Sawbone style to

705
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: talk about some antiquated medical practices in the fifteen fifties

706
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: b C. Egyptians would everyone's always been rubbing stuff on

707
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: their head to see if they could regrow it. It

708
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 1: was hippopotamus fat, porcupine hair they would boil in water.

709
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 1: They would grind up donkey hoofs and rub that into

710
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 1: their scalp. Yeah. Uh. And then that was on the

711
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 1: Ebbers papyrus, which I think we talked about in the

712
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 1: Ethnobotany episode. Yeah. Um. And then about a thousand, eleven

713
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: hundred or so years later, our buddy Hippocrisies shows back up,

714
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 1: makes the comparison with Foxes with Mange, which is not

715
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,399
Speaker 1: very pleasant, and then also says, hey, get your hands

716
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: on some opium and horseradish, get some pigeon poop and

717
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 1: some beats and uh spices, like he's suddenly Colonel Sanders

718
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 1: or something. Put it all together, right, yeah, and then

719
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 1: there you go. You're fine after that. You don't care

720
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,879
Speaker 1: about your hair loss any that's right, um. And then

721
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:25,839
Speaker 1: put it all together and rub it on your head. Uh.

722
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 1: And apparently he also said, you know what, court eunuchs

723
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: um tend to have really nice hair. Which I've never seen.

724
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 1: I've always seen him bald, but he said, if you

725
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 1: have really bad hair lost, just go ahead and castrate yourself.

726
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 1: And there you go. I'm Hippocrates, go ahead and base

727
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 1: all medical science after my teachings. About a thousand a d.

728
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 1: There was a Celtic remedy for you had to hunt

729
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,919
Speaker 1: down a raven, burn it and then mix up those

730
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: ashes and render it was some sheep fat. Rub that

731
00:42:55,719 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: on your head, right, And then of course the Kellogg brothers.

732
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: I don't think it wouldn't surprise me if they had

733
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 1: a machine, but they were very Kellogg like machines by

734
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 1: the twentieth century, where I think there was one called

735
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 1: the Crossley Servac that if you look a picture of this,

736
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,399
Speaker 1: it is very Kellogg like. It's a you know, this

737
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 1: big machine and you would sit with a like a

738
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: bowl on your head that was connected to and I

739
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 1: think it would supposedly try and literally suck hair from

740
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: your scalp. Yeah, apparently Fredis Stair had one, and I

741
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 1: mean the Cross League Company still to this day has

742
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,839
Speaker 1: on their blog a little article about it and they

743
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 1: say that you know, it worked, it seemed to really work.

744
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 1: Something about it worked but they're not exactly sure why. Um.

745
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 1: There's another thing called the thermocap that used like um

746
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 1: heat and blue light, and I know there's one today

747
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: called the Capellus which uses some sort of maybe red

748
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,439
Speaker 1: or infrared light UM. And there's a class action suit

749
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: against Capellus right now because they have a claim that

750
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: it's clinically proven to regrow hair. And apparently that clinically

751
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 1: proven is based on a single two thousand and fourteen

752
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,919
Speaker 1: clinical trial that was sponsored by Capellus. So somebody who

753
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 1: tried spent seven hundred bucks on a Capellus system is

754
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: suing them, and that a bunch of other people have joined.

755
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 1: As far as real things that work, we mentioned the

756
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 1: onset of the show, there are a couple of drugs

757
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 1: that have we're sort of accidental and uh in this

758
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 1: so far as the side effect they found was that

759
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:35,320
Speaker 1: it helped regrow hair and medoxidil active ingredient, and rogain

760
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 1: is one of them. In the eighties, it was developed

761
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 1: as a blood pressure medication and it's a vasidilator, so

762
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: it's gonna enlarge blood vessels and they think, um that

763
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 1: what it does is in large hair follicles that are

764
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: shrinking due to that pattern baldness and just slows that

765
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 1: process down and it works pretty good. I think UM,

766
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:59,240
Speaker 1: supposedly it it. I don't think it's uh. It depends

767
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:02,760
Speaker 1: on what you're after. Like I think they say um

768
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 1: hair regrowth because that's what you want. You want to

769
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 1: you want to start early and stop it in its

770
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 1: tracks and try to regrows some. So for hair regrowth

771
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: was found to be very effective and only sixteen um

772
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 1: effective or moderately effective in six which is pretty good

773
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 1: of men, you should say, yeah, of men, and then

774
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 1: ineffective in sixteen percent. I think for women reported moderate

775
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 1: hair regrowth with medocodel, and that's just for a hair

776
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 1: on the top of your head. It has apparently zero

777
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 1: effect on the hair on the side of your head. Yeah,

778
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: like that crown. If that's where you're losing it and

779
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 1: you get in there early with that road game, that's uh,

780
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: you might want to give that a shot. Yeah, And

781
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,800
Speaker 1: they think basically it's just UM opening up the blood

782
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 1: supply to those you know, withering hair follicles and gets them,

783
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 1: gets those gremlins working again. That's right, makes sense. There's

784
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 1: also finasteride um, which was originally under the trade name Propecia.

785
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: I think the patent ran out on it, and I

786
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,359
Speaker 1: think by now, uh, if not, monoxide will definitely did

787
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 1: because that was ro gain. One of the two is

788
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 1: not in the patent phase any longer. But it was

789
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 1: originally developed to shrink in large prostates because it's a

790
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 1: UM five alpha reductase inhibitor. UM and in large prostates

791
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: are the result of die hydro testosterone. So um rogain

792
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: or finasteride basically inhibits five alpha reductations from converting testosterone

793
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: into die hydro testosterone or d HT. So that would

794
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: reduce hair loss because there's less DHT in the hair follicles, right,

795
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: and finasteride is is I think rogains a foam like

796
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 1: hair moose or maybe like a gelled a liquid too,

797
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 1: and then finasteride like we don't know, and then I'm

798
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: just kidding. Actually did buy some rogaine. I use it

799
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 1: for like two weeks and I was like, I'm not

800
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:58,879
Speaker 1: gonna do this for the rest of the Yeah, well

801
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: that's stopped. You got We should say, like, um, both

802
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 1: monoxidet and in finasteride have to be used beforeever for

803
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: as long as you want to keep trying to work

804
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 1: on your hair. Yeah, I ran up and it was

805
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 1: just one of those things. I have a hard time

806
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 1: doing a thing every day anyway, and I was like,

807
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 1: they just did not last. So I've got three or

808
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 1: four things of If anyone wants some free rogaine, I'll

809
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 1: send it to him. Oh, that's nice of you. I'll

810
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 1: just mail you in my leftover things. I'm sure that

811
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 1: that's nice. It's if it's over the counter. I think

812
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 1: we're okay legally speaking. And one more thing about finasteride,

813
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 1: Chuck is is it's like you're saying, it produces a

814
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 1: rectile dysfunction and loss of interest in sex and men,

815
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 1: and then in animal studies it produced um birth effects

816
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:45,839
Speaker 1: in male genitalia for pregnant animals. So it's been that's

817
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:50,320
Speaker 1: been kind of um extended to pregnant women human women,

818
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 1: saying like, if you don't get anywhere near finasteride because

819
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 1: it may produce birth effects in your baby. I did

820
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 1: not know that. Well. The one of the reasons you

821
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:04,240
Speaker 1: did not know that is because apparently there's lawsuit against

822
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:10,399
Speaker 1: Merk and this judge in Brooklyn, Judge Brian Cogan, allowed this.

823
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:14,399
Speaker 1: These documents Merk internal documents to be sealed. That basically said, yeah,

824
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 1: we're well aware of this and we can't let this

825
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 1: get out because people won't want um propitia any longer

826
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 1: if they know about the prolonged sexual side effects, which

827
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 1: is terrible. That is terrible. So then you get the

828
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 1: hair plugs that we talked about. This was from the

829
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,919
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties. Uh, sometimes it looks that way. Um. Dr

830
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: Norman or in Treaque or or in Treach, I'm not

831
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 1: sure which it is, came up with this um sort

832
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:46,800
Speaker 1: of crude method where they would punch out little circles

833
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 1: of skin from a donor side on the back of

834
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 1: your head where you still you know, like we said,

835
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 1: the follicles are working great back there, and these were

836
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 1: little plugs about four millimeters in diameter, and then they

837
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 1: would transplant those to where you were balding and hopefully

838
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 1: regrow your hair. And it was it didn't look great

839
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,919
Speaker 1: at less scars in the back, and it took time

840
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: for it to grow in upfront, so it would look

841
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 1: very sort of planted if you will. Well, yeah, I

842
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:20,320
Speaker 1: mean it's like in these neat little rows, these little

843
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:22,799
Speaker 1: plugs of hair, you know, like that. It left a

844
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,359
Speaker 1: lot to be desired for sure. That's it has come

845
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: a long way since then. Now they use something called

846
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 1: f U E follicular unit extraction, and that allows them

847
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 1: to extract what they call follicular units three or four

848
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 1: follicles and there's no scarring back there, and they can

849
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:44,799
Speaker 1: transplant them much more closely and fill in you know,

850
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 1: if it's if you were liking it to like a

851
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,880
Speaker 1: row of corn, uh, filling in those rows in between

852
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 1: as well, so it looked better, yeah, where it was thinning.

853
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,760
Speaker 1: You know. Something interesting I saw is that um doctor

854
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 1: or in treach, he followed in the footsteps of some

855
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 1: other people that data back to. There was a Turkey

856
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 1: believing manach Um Hodara, who apparently was the first one

857
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,799
Speaker 1: to really do a hair transplant procedure. And then there

858
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 1: was a Japanese guy doctors show Jewey Okada, who in

859
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 1: the thirties was the one who pioneered that punch technique.

860
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 1: But in the West, Dr Orange Treats usually is credited

861
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 1: as the pioneer of hair transplants. Now they are starting

862
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,359
Speaker 1: to look into stem cells and this has a lot

863
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 1: of promise because researchers found out I guess figured out

864
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 1: through a lot of study is that one of the

865
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:40,240
Speaker 1: reasons that why hair follicles are can continue, those gremlins

866
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:43,799
Speaker 1: can keep working is because each hair follicle has a

867
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:49,240
Speaker 1: little well of stem cells, including those follicular stem cells

868
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:52,799
Speaker 1: and dermal papilla cells that you were talking about. I

869
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,359
Speaker 1: think at the very beginning and in Japan and here

870
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 1: in the States, there were scientists who figure out how

871
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 1: to extract those stem cells grow these new follicles in

872
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 1: a lab. And the thing with anytime you're doing that,

873
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 1: you have to you have to shape this thing. Like

874
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:12,400
Speaker 1: if you're gonna, uh do something in the shape of

875
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:14,880
Speaker 1: an ear, you would three D print out this like

876
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 1: a model, this like scaffolding model to allow it to

877
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 1: grow into the right shape. Because growing something from stem cells,

878
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: you know, organs from stem cells, it's you know, you've

879
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:27,359
Speaker 1: gotta shape it yourself. It's not you can't just say

880
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 1: form of an ear or form of a hair follicle.

881
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 1: It just doesn't work that way. Uh yeah, exactly. This

882
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 1: woman at Columbia University named Angelo Cristiano, who was threatened

883
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 1: by alopecia areata, started basically this three D hair farm,

884
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 1: creating these printed molds that mimic the underside the internal

885
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 1: structure of a scalp, so she growth these sounds so gross,

886
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 1: but grow these little hair fields that I was kind

887
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 1: of talking about with Bezos. Yeah, because here's the thing, like,

888
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 1: if you are already bald, you don't have any donor

889
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 1: sites to get the follicular extraction from, right um. And

890
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:11,439
Speaker 1: if you do have some, you know eventually you're gonna

891
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 1: start to thin that out when you're harvesting it. This

892
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:18,240
Speaker 1: stem cell like hair farm that's grown in vitro solves

893
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 1: that problem. You've got all the donor follicles that you

894
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 1: need right there without having to take any from the head,

895
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 1: which is beautiful, pretty cool, And this is like this

896
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 1: could be the future, you know. I think it definitely

897
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 1: is there basically at the point where they can grow hair. Um.

898
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 1: They just are now trying to figure out how to

899
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 1: make it not wiry or pigmented the right way. And

900
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 1: all it seems to be is that figuring out in

901
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,879
Speaker 1: more granular detail what the actual conditions are in your

902
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 1: hair follicle in your scalp, and then recreating that in vitra. Yeah,

903
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 1: and how to name it something other than a hair farm. Right,

904
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,360
Speaker 1: So I think we should close with the idea. You know,

905
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 1: we like to talk about evolution and whether or not

906
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:05,799
Speaker 1: something was an evolutionary adaptation to to stick around. And

907
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 1: you might think, if if women are always being surveyed

908
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 1: about attractiveness of men, and balding men ranked low on

909
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 1: that list, why on earth would it stick around as

910
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,240
Speaker 1: an evolutionary trait. And I think it took a doctor

911
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 1: named Frank Muscarella to come around and say, maybe we

912
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:27,360
Speaker 1: should ask women a lot of things attractiveness, but also

913
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 1: did does this guy look smart? Does he look trustworthy,

914
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 1: does he look approachable? Does he look like he might

915
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:36,359
Speaker 1: be a good long term mate? And balding men did

916
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:38,840
Speaker 1: rank lower and attractiveness, but they ranked a lot higher

917
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 1: in all those other areas. So that might explain why

918
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 1: it's stuck around as an evolutionary adaptation, even though not

919
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:49,279
Speaker 1: everyone agrees. Yeah, and there was another study from the

920
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 1: University of Pennsylvania that basically said, um that, like, I

921
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 1: think bald men are viewed as ten percent more masculine,

922
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:02,440
Speaker 1: m more calm, vident, stronger even and they were like,

923
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 1: this doesn't really jibe with what we what our understanding is,

924
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:09,240
Speaker 1: So they got another set of photos, and they showed people,

925
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:13,359
Speaker 1: um with a guy with hair and then digitally manipulated

926
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: without hair, so to make sure it wasn't like there

927
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 1: was some difference among the actual guys. That wasn't. They

928
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,919
Speaker 1: were controlling for hair loss basically, and they still found

929
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 1: the same results. But it's like you said, they keep

930
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,920
Speaker 1: trying to pigeonhole things into like what the evolutionary fitnesses

931
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 1: you know, um, and some people are like, just not

932
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 1: everything fits that that very in a neat, tidy way.

933
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:38,480
Speaker 1: It's possible baldness is just an aberration, like it's not

934
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 1: something we're supposed to do. But it had nothing to

935
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 1: do with with um helping the species along or holding

936
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 1: it back. You know. That's right? You got anything else? No,

937
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 1: I hope we've displayed the proper sensitivities here. Uh. If

938
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 1: anyone is suffering from hair loss, then it can be

939
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 1: a tough thing and and handle it the best way,

940
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 1: you know how? Yeah, greed um. And since Chuck said

941
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:06,319
Speaker 1: the best way, you know how, I think it's time

942
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 1: for a listener mail. It is. This is believe it

943
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 1: or not. Sammy Davis Junior enters the picture and this

944
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:18,359
Speaker 1: is from Molly. She says, I recently found out at

945
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 1: a distant but kind of wild Sammy Davis Junior connection.

946
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 1: Turns out, my great great great aunt is the one

947
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:28,720
Speaker 1: who caused the car accident that called Sammy Davis Junior

948
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:31,279
Speaker 1: to lose his eye. Oh my gosh. Her name was

949
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 1: Helen Boss. She was seventy two when she stopped in

950
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 1: the middle of the highway in California and started to

951
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 1: reverse because she missed her exit and caused the infamous

952
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 1: car wreck. She missed her exit and was lost because

953
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 1: she was from Akron, Ohio, and had just done a

954
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 1: cross country road trip to California. She says to my

955
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,760
Speaker 1: whole family is from the Cleveland Acron area. Shout out Ohio,

956
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:52,840
Speaker 1: Molly Minus, my wife says as well. So there was

957
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:54,839
Speaker 1: another woman in the car with her that had been

958
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 1: taking turns driving. They both suffered from injuries some injuries

959
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:00,880
Speaker 1: as well, and there were some suits flying from all

960
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:03,759
Speaker 1: parties supposed to accident. I believe Sammy was cleared of

961
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:07,879
Speaker 1: any wrongdoing, even though he rear ended them. Uh. This

962
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 1: isn't really a proud family moment, but when my mom

963
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:11,760
Speaker 1: told me the story, I thought it was pretty interesting.

964
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:14,919
Speaker 1: I love the podcast I'm a tax accountant. I wanted

965
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 1: to say there's at least one person that absolutely loves

966
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 1: when you cover tax and financial topics. That is from

967
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 1: Molly B. Nice work. Molly, appreciate that. That is a

968
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:28,959
Speaker 1: Rando family history if I've ever heard one, it's good.

969
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 1: I agree, totally interesting. If you've got some weird part

970
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 1: of your family history that you want to share with us,

971
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 1: we'd love to hear it. You can send it in

972
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:45,920
Speaker 1: an email to Stuff podcast at i heart radio dot com.

973
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:48,280
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of I Heart Radio.

974
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:51,319
Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the i heart

975
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:54,279
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

976
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:55,040
Speaker 1: favorite shows.