1 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: Welcome everyone to the It Could Happen Here podcast. My 2 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: name is said Andrew, and I'll be your host as 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: we talk about politics stuff with me today is Garrison Hello, 4 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: and Christopher Hello, and Sufie him. And today we will 5 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: be tackling or rather we'll be taking a trip to 6 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 1: the anarchist activism in Latin America with A specifies more. 7 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:37,840 Speaker 1: But first we need to get into some context here. 8 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: The first organization to promote the concept of a specifies 9 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 1: MOO was the Federation Anarchista Uruguaya or the FAU, which 10 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: is founded in nineteen fifty six by anarchist Milton's who 11 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: embraced the idea of an organization that was specifically anarchist. 12 00:00:55,880 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: But those who don't know, not long after, rather two 13 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: decades after ni UM, the US installed a dictatorship in Uruguay, 14 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: the last from nine. The FA you survived that dictatorship 15 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: and went on to establish connections with other South American 16 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 1: anarchist revolutionaries. So they helped to support the founding of 17 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: the Fedahao Anarchista Gaochia or fer G. I don't know 18 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: if I'm pronounced that correctly. The Federes shall an Artista 19 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 1: Kola and the Ferres shall an Arkista the Rio de 20 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: Janeiro or f the r G in their respective regions 21 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,320 Speaker 1: of Brazil, and they also helped to found the Argentinean 22 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: organization as Alka, which means rebel. While only coming onto 23 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: stage in Latin America within the last few decades. The 24 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: ideas that really make up A specifies more tasan a 25 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: historic threat that's really run to the anarchist movement internationally 26 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: since the beginning. UM. It may as we get into 27 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: like what is spect feasion is and stuff, it may 28 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: sound very similar to platform is um. Are you all 29 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 1: familiar with that current Yeah, I'm from familiar with platforms 30 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 1: a little bit, but we can probably, I don't know, 31 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: explain it for the people at at at home who 32 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: are not as, who do not spend as much time 33 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: thinking about old, old, old anarchist terms right right right, 34 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: so their generic listener or viewer or whatever. UM. Platform 35 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: is UM began with a document that was written in 36 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: nine by the former Peasant Army leader Nestor Maknu either 37 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: Met and other militants of the Yellow Truda or Workers 38 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: Cause group. They published the document called Organizational Platform of 39 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 1: the Libertarian Communists and it was written in response to 40 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 1: well being exiled from the Russian Revolution um and having 41 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: to struggle really to find their foot in after the 42 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: Bolsheviks turn the work of Soviets into instruments of one 43 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: party rule. UM. So the Power Space Group, the Deal Truder. 44 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: They really criticized the anarchist movement for a lack of organization. 45 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: So they proposed an alternative that is controversial to some anarchists, 46 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: but it's essentially a general union of anarchists based on 47 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: anarchist communism that would strive for theoretical and tactical unity. 48 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: And I focused on class struggle and labor unions. Obviously, 49 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: platform is um like all political ideas, it's not a 50 00:03:55,800 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: static you know, the world has progressed sick significant lee 51 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: in a century, so um. While there is an emphasis 52 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: and workers struggle and class struggle. UM. When you speak 53 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: to most platforms today, I would say, um, obviously I 54 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: don't have stats on that. I would say most platforms 55 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: can recognize that, you know, the no war with the 56 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 1: class war is a bit reductive. UM. I've also noticed, 57 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,919 Speaker 1: actually that platformism has been getting a bit more popularity lately. 58 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's just me and my perception. 59 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 1: But I don't know if you' all seen that I have. 60 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: I've not seen tons of it here. A lot of 61 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: the type of anarchism I'm around, or at least see 62 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: is is not is not in this vein. But most 63 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: most of the stuff I see is like around UM, 64 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: like the kind of like live anarchy type kind of 65 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: strains um and more individualists. Right, But that's just I 66 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 1: think a very like Pacific Northwest specific thing that the 67 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: anarchists here just kind of generally trend in that direction. 68 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: So I'm not sure what it's literally like across like 69 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: this country in other places around the world. Yeah, I know, 70 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 1: I know, I know, I've definitely seen it. Especially I 71 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: think I think it's it's I don't know, almost think 72 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 1: it's bigger a few years ago. But back like there 73 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: is a big spike of black rose um serious group 74 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,919 Speaker 1: for a while, and yeah, people who like called themselves 75 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: like anarcho communists or anarcho syndicalists kind of generally swam 76 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: in this general ocean. Yeah, I definitely saw that as 77 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: a bigger thing in than now, at least like locally 78 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: from my area. And I think I will say, yeah, 79 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: the blacks people. A lot of them, like very very 80 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: specifically were specific based, and a lot of it was 81 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: based on like people who had like experiences with a 82 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: specific moment very as ways, right right, yeah, because I 83 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 1: was actually just about to say, I think that black 84 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,359 Speaker 1: Rose is more as specificity than Platform is. But of 85 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 1: course there is you know, a lot of overlap between 86 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: these two currents, right, Um. As for my experience with 87 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: like platform and some and stuff, have seen UM discussions 88 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: of it happening more. I mean, that's all I can 89 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: really see that I've seen. UM. Have you ever read once? 90 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: But at least if discussions are happening, the likelihood of 91 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: things coming out of it might be a bit. In Greece, 92 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 1: I guess another current that UM has been part of 93 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: the anarchists milieu, psychgeist wave whatever is organizational dualism, which 94 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: came out to the nineteen twenties Italian anarchist movement. So 95 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: they use the tomb to describe involvements of anarchists both 96 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: as members of anarchists specific political organizations and also as 97 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: militants in the labor movement. In Spain, the Friends of 98 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: Druti group emerged to oppose the Gradual reviews Cell, the 99 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: Smash Revolution n and they also ended up emulating some 100 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: of the ideas of the platform by criticizing you know, 101 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: the cnt F phase, c ant f AIS, gradual reformism 102 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: and collaboration with republican government. Um. So the spars of 103 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: war and stuff. You know, there's a lot of forces 104 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: that play and we're gonna get into now, but it is, 105 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: I would say, as a side note, important to recognize 106 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: that there is no model it when it comes to 107 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: like these sort of civil wars and historical events. Um, 108 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: you really have to look at things in context and 109 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: you know, it's not trying to strip them away from 110 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: the goings on at the time. Also, the Chinese anarchist 111 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: movement of the nineteen tens um advocated for similar ideas. 112 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: I'm going to try to pronounce the name of the group, 113 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: hopefully don't get castled, but it's the who Shuang Fu Kong, 114 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: Shan Jui Tong, She's a way, I think, which is 115 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: the Society of Anarchists Communist Comrades. And yeah, they advocated 116 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: for a lot of similar ideas. So there's a lot 117 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: of different currents around the world influenced by you know, 118 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: the historic conditions. But the general thread that you know 119 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:44,839 Speaker 1: anarchists need to get together and work as a unit 120 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: is you know what's thrust in it, right and specifies more, 121 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: is just a fresh continuation of this threat of this trend. 122 00:08:55,679 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: So what is that? What is the specifies more exactly 123 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:06,079 Speaker 1: the three key concepts um that I see emphasized again 124 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 1: and again. One the need for specifically anarchist organization built 125 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: around a unity of ideas and practice. Two, the use 126 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,359 Speaker 1: of the specifically anarchist organization to theorize and develop strategic 127 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: political and organizing work. And three active involvement in and 128 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: building of autonomous and popular social movements, which is described 129 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: as the process of social institution. So kind of core 130 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: to the whole specificity current is which is rather antithectical 131 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: some of the trends that I've seen in the past 132 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: couple of years. It's sort of a rejection of this 133 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: left unity idea, right, this idea that there can be 134 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 1: these this sort of big tent organization that can somehow 135 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: estab ash all these different visions simultaneously. Right. So I 136 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: specificity reject the idea of just unity of unity's sake, 137 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: because they feel it boils down to sort of Louis 138 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 1: common denominate to kind of wishy washy politics. They feel 139 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: it when unity is preferred at all costs, it leaves 140 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: very little room for unified action or developed political discussion. 141 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: In fact, in my experience, when you have like a 142 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: lot of political heterogene um, there tends to be a 143 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: lot of unproductive drama lack of better word. Obviously, people 144 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: of different political stripes should work together, um, And there's 145 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,839 Speaker 1: no like harm in that. But at the same time, 146 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: when it comes to certain types of organizations, having a 147 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: sense of ideological unity is I would say pretty important. 148 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,199 Speaker 1: As you know, you don't want to have all these 149 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: different groups constantly butting heads for all these different visions. 150 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: You know, you want to have at least some sense 151 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: that we're moving in sync. Right, So you're not going 152 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 1: to have some people who are trying to establish social 153 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: democracy and some people who are trying to get like 154 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 1: this workers state code and code, or you know, people 155 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:33,959 Speaker 1: who just want i don't know, like a higher minimum reach, right. 156 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: I mean, everyone's on a different stage of their political journey. 157 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: But what specificity try to emphasize is that while we 158 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: can work within these larger social movements, um, it's important 159 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 1: that artists specifically come together to try to shape those 160 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: movements in an organized way. And I'll explain because it 161 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: kind of sounds a bit like anangotism for some people, 162 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: this idea that you know, these this cabal of like 163 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: revolutionaries are trying to manipulate things behind the scenes. But um, really, 164 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 1: what a specificitts argue is that and I guess needed space. 165 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: They need space for like common strategy and reflection and 166 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: collective responsibility and you know, a place to discuss plans 167 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 1: and build trust and share analysis and you know, put 168 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: together shorts and long term goals all that jazz. Um. 169 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: So will the specificitys do reach out to and work 170 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 1: with social movements regardless of whether they fit this code 171 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: and code anarchist purity test um. And I see that 172 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 1: with my tongue planted family and cheek of course, Um, 173 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,199 Speaker 1: they want to make sure that they can sue still 174 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: as an active minority, so that these movements aren't diluted. 175 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: And so I noticed like throwing out a lot of 176 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: different woods and freezers and ideas, um, you know, things 177 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 1: like ideological unity and the need for sort of a 178 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:14,679 Speaker 1: consensus within the group. Um. And speaking of I've spoken 179 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: about consensus on my channel before, so I have a 180 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: breakdown on it. People can check out if they're like, um, 181 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: I was spoke of unified strategy, right, So you're not 182 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: just joking around, you actually have mapped out sort of strategy. 183 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: Like for example, black socialists in America. They aren't like 184 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: a specifically a specificity or to my knowledge, but you 185 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: can see um that they have like a unified, like 186 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,719 Speaker 1: clearly leader strategy and they're making moves to make it 187 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 1: to achieve it, and they're very public about those moves, right. Um. 188 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:50,599 Speaker 1: I also I want to emphasize, of course, in the 189 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: specifies more the whole idea of this active minority. You know, 190 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,599 Speaker 1: it's not just a bunch of like it's not like 191 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 1: a path of book club, right. And a specificity group 192 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: is a group of people who are passionate about you 193 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 1: know this cause um, and obviously passionate people have this 194 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:16,959 Speaker 1: habit of for they can more than they can chew. Right. 195 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: So what I would advise like a specificity and a 196 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: specificity judgment adjacent groups and really just organizations in general, 197 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: is that keep your size in mind, keep achievable goals 198 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: within sight, because if you don't you know, it's very 199 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: easy to burn out very quickly. Yeah. Um. With the 200 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: specificity groups, it's important that they understand their responsibility, but 201 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: also that they understand their limits. Lastly, and very importantly, 202 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: social institution, I think is one of the most important 203 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: parts for specificity mo and I think even if you 204 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: do want to take anything away from like specificity specifies more, 205 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: you at the very least like implement social institution or 206 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: at least concepts within social institution into organizing, right because obviously, um, 207 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: and I guess a kind of fewer number. But what 208 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: social institution tries to point out I guess, or tries 209 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: to develop within a movement, it's just awareness that the 210 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: people who are making these moves from organizing and whatnot, 211 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: that they don't relinquish their power to like other figures 212 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:51,359 Speaker 1: or forces or parties or whatever the case may be. Right, Um, 213 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: Social institutions times in the belief that the oppressed but 214 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: the most revolutionary sector society and the seed of future 215 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: revolutionary transformations society lies already in these classes and social groupings. 216 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: So it doesn't mean socialization doesn't mean like acting within 217 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: single issue advocacy campaigns or you know, like trying to 218 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: take over people's existing struggles. It means getting involved in 219 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: daily fights and daily struggles people to better their own conditions. 220 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: It means, you know, connecting with workers, connecting with immigrants, 221 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: connecting across neighborhoods, working towards racial liberation, working within students 222 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: struggles and tenant struggles. As people are like part of 223 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: these struggles, they become conscious of their place in society, right, 224 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: And part of our rule is to try to develop 225 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: their consciousness. So as people are tempered and tested and recreated, 226 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: they see their position in the what we're looking for 227 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 1: in the pecking order. Right. They see that there are 228 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:07,880 Speaker 1: forces that play that are keeping them down, their structures 229 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: play that are keeping them down, and they change from 230 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: just being like social classes to being active social forces. 231 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 1: So they're brought together by organic methods and by self 232 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,239 Speaker 1: organized cohesion. What you notice of the popular movements, like 233 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: for example, Black Lives Matter, is that the unlike what 234 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 1: some conservatives might assume, the Black Lives Matter organization wasn't 235 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: the one like pulling the strings, you know, like the 236 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: official group wasn't there, you know, telling people okay, march here, 237 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: puting that right here, move that you know, it's like 238 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: the people themselves came together and you know, really expressed 239 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: the desire for change. And so really, as they become 240 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: self conscious actors, aware of their power, of their voice, 241 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 1: of their nemesis, which is the ruling elites that control 242 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:16,360 Speaker 1: the social order, a specificitys try to keep that thrust. Right. 243 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: What a specificity argue is that essentially there's an anarchist 244 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 1: on the current two popular social movements that should be 245 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 1: preserved and maintained and cultivated. Right with popular movements, Um, 246 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 1: they're very quickly co opted by impositions of leadership or 247 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: by you know, academic elites or by political parties. But 248 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: specificity aren't there to try to make groups identify as anarchists, right, 249 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: They're there to just maintain that thrust, to be self 250 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 1: organized and to fight for their own interests because ultimately 251 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: that's our natural impulse as months. You know, it's really 252 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 1: the propaganda that tells us, you know, um, like you 253 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: have to go through these proper channels. You know, you 254 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 1: have to vote with your dollar or you know, food 255 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: for these politicians or whatever the case may be. Converse, 256 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,920 Speaker 1: and all these different things call up your representatives. The 257 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: natural thrust of a person is not to like relinquished 258 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 1: control of themselves, you know, it's to try to maintain 259 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: that um and so a specifics trying to push against 260 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,719 Speaker 1: the propaganda that keeps us from maintaining that, push against 261 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 1: the co optation that ships that from us. Soup. Do 262 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:54,120 Speaker 1: any sort of automatic critiques of a specifies move come 263 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: to mind for y'all? I'm not sure about like critiques 264 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 1: per se. We need to think about it more, But 265 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 1: a few things that come to mind around so, like 266 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,439 Speaker 1: you talked a bit about like the difference between like 267 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 1: left unity and creating like an anarchist unity, um, and 268 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: for people at home, I would like to maybe extrapolate 269 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: why those are different things. I know you have a 270 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: good video on left unity already, but like in terms 271 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 1: of trying to like, you know, if if one of 272 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: the goals being creating like an anarchist organization that kind 273 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: of unifies different anarchists, how that is a different type 274 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: of unity than just left unity in general. UM. I 275 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 1: think that might be a point of clarification. And then 276 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: the other thing I was wondering about is like how 277 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,719 Speaker 1: does this intersect in terms of like individual goals versus 278 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: like group goals or like organizational goals and so like, 279 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: because like there's a there's a back and forth between 280 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,679 Speaker 1: like personal autonomy and then you know these type of 281 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: social movements that kind of almost gained their own thrust. 282 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 1: Yeh right, right, Yes. To the point about the difference 283 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 1: between Left unity and anarchist unity, um, well, obviously artists 284 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: or soon fairly heterogeneous. Um, I think our general thrust 285 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: for self determination and autonomy and that kind of thing 286 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: is it brings us together. You know. The difference between 287 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: like say anarchist unity, where they're differently some I would 288 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: say key disagreements within the milieu and left unity is 289 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 1: that I feel there are some extremely incompatible factors that 290 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: prevent Left unity from being viable. Yeah, when there's a 291 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: thrust among significant segments, I mean really every non libertarian 292 00:21:55,760 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: segment of you know, they couldn't get left to uh 293 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: funn our popular energy towards state institutions, whether it be 294 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 1: through insurrectionary social democracy or reformist social democracy in a 295 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: case of amounts and stock damage respectively. Um, I think 296 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 1: that that really keeps us from really working together on 297 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: anything more than small goals and small projects. I mean, 298 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: we've really seen the whole left unity idea of fall apart, 299 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 1: you know, through wars and through even just like what 300 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: should be discussions between people, you know, like the First 301 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 1: International literally split because of the differences between you know, 302 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: the so called left currents, you know, between the anarchists 303 00:22:55,160 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 1: and the other socialists. So last unity is now something 304 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: that I even to achieve. I think most people know 305 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: that about me by now, um. But regard to like 306 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: anarchist unity, and of course the differences between an artists, 307 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: I think the general rusted to maintain the autonomy and 308 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: self determination of the people and of the social movements 309 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: via inserting ourselves in is what really clues us together. 310 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: And of course that alone, I don't know if that's 311 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 1: enough to maintain in a specificity organization, because you know, 312 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:38,719 Speaker 1: like I noted, a specificitys try to um develop deeper 313 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: level you know, strategies and theoretical discussion and that kind 314 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: of thing, And so with those sort of discussions, you 315 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 1: know you're gonna see a lot more of the distinctions 316 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: bearing out. But at the very least, UM, I think 317 00:23:53,640 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 1: anarchists generally could benefit from a degree of at least 318 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: unity in the sense of maintaining or soularity in the 319 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: sense of maintaining the libertarian thrust of popular movements. I 320 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: asked the other thing that you had noted about the 321 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:17,479 Speaker 1: sort of friction between individual goals and organizational goals, between 322 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,360 Speaker 1: autonomy and sort of how social movements end up taking 323 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: on like an energy of their own. Um. To be 324 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: quite honest, I don't think I have like a fully 325 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 1: developed answer for that. Yeah, um, Because, on the one hand, 326 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 1: a social movement that forgets that it is about, you know, 327 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: deliberation of individuals is you know, in my view of 328 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: social movement that's quickly going to and obtaining against the 329 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: people who are you know, fueling it. At the same time, 330 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: I interacting with like a lot of people what pretty 331 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 1: selfish or pretty egotistical or just argumentative for the sake 332 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 1: of it. Sorry, So if you're gonna say something, yeah, 333 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:16,479 Speaker 1: I was just like, the thing that keeps popping up 334 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: into my head is, you know, one of the things 335 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 1: that gets misconstrued all the time is who's calling the shots. 336 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: And I kind of feel like what you're saying is 337 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 1: everybody in a way, right, Yeah? Yeah, I think that like, 338 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: which is good sometimes but not good other times. Obviously 339 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: exactly because I think it's it's very easy to fall 340 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: into this sort of um almost reactionary I like island 341 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: mentality not island mentality is incribean islan mentality isn't fussiness 342 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: and as an island around like autonomy and you know 343 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: personal freedom, you know, like this renting idea that you 344 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,679 Speaker 1: know on step map property, you know that kind of 345 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: thing just let people do whatever. It's kind of like 346 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:13,719 Speaker 1: most alarchrocaplist conception of what like freedom and autonomy is 347 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: I think an important part of autonomy and you know 348 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: freedom and yeah, like this project is you know, accountability 349 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: and is you know, like consequences like social consequences and 350 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: how your actions affect others. You know, like what you 351 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: said he was to recognize is that we are not 352 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: in fact islands. You know, our actions or behavioral words 353 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 1: affect other people. And so I think it's going to 354 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: be a constant project to sort of balance um individual 355 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 1: personalities and BROADERCT goals. But I mean, yeah, it's it's 356 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: trick right, Like you know, we're you're talking about like 357 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: some kind of you know, group organization to work together 358 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: to kind of you know, think of achievable goals and 359 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: create steps to get there um. And I feel among 360 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: a lot of people who proudly declare themselves anarchists and 361 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: at least like and they're extremely vocal. Like these are 362 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: like people both like online and in person organizing that 363 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: are very are very like vocal and try to very 364 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: much like make their place known. We've seen trends away 365 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: from this direction in terms of like rejecting the idea 366 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: of goals and demands and just you know, like this 367 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 1: this more insurrectionary kind of tendency of just making total 368 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,639 Speaker 1: destroy for the sake of it and committee, yeah, and 369 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: and and and that. I mean, like I know that 370 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 1: like platform is m is kind of like it's not 371 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: like Antiens insurrectionary, but it's like it's it definitely critiques 372 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: that type of instructionary rend um. So I'm thinking about, like, 373 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: you know, this idea and like how with with with 374 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: this kind of general you know, decentralized, no no demands, 375 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: no goals kind of general kind of direction that like 376 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: capital a anarchists are are doing. How like what's what's 377 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: maybe some parts of a specific that we can actually 378 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: take into account to be like hey maybe there's you know, 379 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: like I I don't like, I don't like being called, 380 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,479 Speaker 1: like any adjective anarchist. I think it's silly. I like 381 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: I like the parts, um, I think earlier this year 382 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: or yeah, the last year, Like I just got to 383 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: the point for you, I'm an anarchist, you know that's yeah, Yeah, 384 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: I like the parton desert. It's like, I'm an anarchist 385 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: of many adjectives. I'm not, I'm not I'm not always 386 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 1: an insurrectionary, I'm not always a syndicalist. I'm not always 387 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: you know, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Um. 388 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: And I feel like that's would be really useful kind 389 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: of thing for people to focus on more in terms of, yeah, 390 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: it can be fun to make total destroying that it's 391 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: a very base instinct, but it also would be great 392 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: to like improve people's lives a little bit um and yeah, 393 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 1: and there's like to to to kind of like dueling things. 394 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: Um and in terms that's why I do really like 395 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: the part of like this type of stuff that it's 396 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: really appealing to me just because I kind of already 397 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: work on this myself, so I'm like, oh, I'm I'm 398 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: already doing this, but it's like the it is it 399 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: is like the social the social insertion side of things, 400 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: I think is something that would be a much a 401 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: much better way of thinking about. Like everyone hates talking 402 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: about optics because yeah, it's frustrating, but I think the 403 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: social insertion method is a better framework for kind of 404 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 1: dealing with some of those same problems. Um. And yeah, 405 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: and then like you know, there is even among insurrectionaries 406 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: and all those you know, all those types, there still 407 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: is like a decent amount of like group projects and stuff, 408 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: and that is I think a really good thing to 409 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: focus on because but yeah, there's not many anarchists, and 410 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: it would be cool if there was more. And if 411 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: we just focus on the parts that make people go, 412 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: oh that's kind of silly and pointless, then we're not 413 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: really going to grow anarchism that much. Um. So highlighting 414 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: the parts they are like, oh, yeah, you're actually helping people. 415 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: That's gonna convince a lot more people who are kind 416 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: of already trending in that general general direction, and then hey, 417 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 1: maybe in a few years they can also be doing 418 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: silly destruction for fun, because it is it is fun sometimes, right, Yeah, 419 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: Like this, as you mentioned optics, I reminded it is 420 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: kind of pet peeve I have with some you know, 421 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: instant people where they try to treat like ideologies or 422 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: specifically anarchism as like a pr project that we have 423 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: to like constantly be trying to shift the optics and 424 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: micromanaged like every aspect. Like No, I think that as 425 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 1: remedy for like, because you're not going to match the 426 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: power of mass media. What you can do to push 427 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: back against a sort of propaganda is help people, and 428 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 1: help people and identify as anarchists as you're helping people, right, Like, 429 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: that's the easiest and quickest way to dispel people's notions 430 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: and like conceptions of what an anarchist is. If we 431 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 1: were to take like socialization right and sort of, I 432 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: would say, there's still it's a bit and individualize it 433 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: a bit. Um. I would say that as a practice, 434 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: you know, just even if you don't know any any 435 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: other anarchists in your area, right, just being there, being 436 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 1: in these movements helping people and you know, saying you know, 437 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 1: this is what I believe. Um, Just talking to people 438 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: about what you believe as a place and as you're 439 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: helping them, you know, that goes a long way, much 440 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: longer than any you know, poster UM campaign or like 441 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 1: wheat pasting initiative or artwork um you know, wall arts 442 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: or whatever, you know, like actively helping people. Of course 443 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: wall lot has its place and double little bit myself, 444 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 1: but you know it's it's not it's ultimately like talking 445 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: to people and helping people and being their people and 446 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: being honest about your intentions that I think, you know, 447 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: we should working towards. And I think those types of 448 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: projects are something that the specific model like excels that 449 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: in terms of like creating like a unity of anarchists 450 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 1: who get like who have like a goal in mind 451 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: and then go out to achieve the goal. Helping people 452 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: like doing like doing like like like direct directly helping 453 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 1: people is something that that type of organization model is 454 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: kind of the best at UM because you can yeah, 455 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: really like or aize things much better with a small 456 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: group like that and create goals that are actually very achievable, 457 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: whether it be you know, building a community kitchen or 458 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 1: building you know, heating centers for like for the winter, 459 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: like under under bridges or whatever. You know, all those 460 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: types of starting community gardens, all those types of things 461 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 1: are I think what this type of model really excels 462 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: at and Yeah, you don't need to change your ideology 463 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: to this one word because that's that's silly. But you 464 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: can pick up different parts of it, be like, yeah, 465 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: that actually seems like a useful way of the world 466 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: that you want, you know, a politicians just ruling hand, 467 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: co opt our project, you know, like just basic things 468 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: like that, you know, and then from there, you know, 469 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: as you are talking with people and meeting people who 470 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: are passionate about issues in these social movements. You know, 471 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 1: not only does it keep you from developing this sort 472 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: of um pretumularly online um in group kind of mentality, 473 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: it also opens up opportunities you to develop your and 474 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: this is on the topic of like the individualist social institution, 475 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: it prints or presents oportunities for you to develop your 476 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 1: own had no like book club, and then from that 477 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 1: book club could come and a specificity organization. You know, 478 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 1: as you begin to develop your politics and your shared politics, 479 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,839 Speaker 1: more can come out of it. So don't underestimate, you know, 480 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: the potential of just putting in the work and talking 481 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:34,760 Speaker 1: to people. Yeah, you know, just being there on the ground. 482 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: One of the best things you can do to help 483 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: stay alive in the well things are heading in the 484 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 1: direction that they're heading societally is like making friends and 485 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 1: forming a friend group and then yeah, like actually doing 486 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 1: stuff together. That makes dealing with everything else that's happening 487 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: so so much better. And hey, remember our old friend 488 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: Nest Nest remarking started with a book club, so hey, 489 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,799 Speaker 1: you know, you never know where book clubs could lead 490 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:10,399 Speaker 1: exactly exactly. It's actually really interesting. Um video clip of 491 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 1: Marie book Gin talking about book clubs and like the 492 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: power and potential book clubs. Um. I don't know if 493 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: we could probably link that in the show notes, but 494 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:33,719 Speaker 1: it's like a really interesting make sure drinks. So ultimately, 495 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 1: a specificity believe that social movements we reached their own 496 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 1: logic of creating revolution. Not when they all just decide 497 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,400 Speaker 1: to identify as anarchists and weave the black flag, but 498 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 1: when the majority reach a consensus and a consciousness of 499 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: their power and the ability to exercise their power in 500 00:35:55,719 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 1: their daily lives. So even if they do not adopt anarchism, 501 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: they still consciously adopt the ideas embedded within it. They 502 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:12,359 Speaker 1: are multiple political currents will exist within any movement, and 503 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 1: so it's important that we as anarchists, and I guess 504 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,839 Speaker 1: specifically as a specificity are there to actively combat the 505 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: opportunism that come from you know, these forces from this 506 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:32,359 Speaker 1: whether electoral or find goddess within these social movements as well, 507 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: we can also help to push them further through um, 508 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 1: you know, pushing for more direct democracy and consensus, through federalism, 509 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:49,320 Speaker 1: and confederating with other social movements through you know, building 510 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,319 Speaker 1: up the mutual aid within these movements. Like if you are, 511 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:57,319 Speaker 1: for example, part of a mutual aid group in one neighborhood, 512 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,280 Speaker 1: you can push them to start reaching out with mutually 513 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: groups and other neighborhoods and creating a network of mutual 514 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:08,239 Speaker 1: aid groups that can build into something bigger, you know, 515 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:17,280 Speaker 1: combining resources and manpower to really push the revolution, you know. Lastly, 516 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,840 Speaker 1: I will say that for those who are trying to 517 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 1: like get into the whole specifies more thing. Um. I mean, 518 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: you could start a new organization from scratch. But again, 519 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: like the easiest thing to do is suggest getting there 520 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:37,400 Speaker 1: to people and be honest with the people. And I 521 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 1: keep saying the people, even though I have my critiques 522 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 1: of this amorphous conception of the people, but the point 523 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:51,279 Speaker 1: remains that our goal is to spread our ideas, not 524 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:56,280 Speaker 1: to get people on any particular ideology, but to get 525 00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 1: a liberatory consciousness on the ground and to generalize that consciousness. 526 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 1: And for those who are curious about the specifies more 527 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:12,360 Speaker 1: in action and social institutions, specifically the Federal show Anarchista 528 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:16,720 Speaker 1: GAUSHA in Brazil has worked with neighborhood committees and urban 529 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 1: villages and slums. They've built alliances with the rank and 530 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 1: file members of the rural land as workers movement the 531 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:27,560 Speaker 1: must and they've also worked with trash and recyclables collectors 532 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: UM Brazil. For those who don't know, as a lot 533 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:37,280 Speaker 1: of high levels of temporary uh and contingent employment, underemployment 534 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 1: and unemployment. So the working class isn't how will you 535 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 1: traditionally conceive it as like just surviving primarily off of 536 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 1: wage labor, but it's more so this is sort of 537 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 1: subsistence work informal economy, gig economy can deal. So being 538 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:58,719 Speaker 1: able to connect with these when trash collectors, for example, 539 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: who are part of this out of the economy, the 540 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 1: FIG has built a strong relationship with them and help 541 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,279 Speaker 1: them to form their own national organization to you know, 542 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:14,799 Speaker 1: push for their interests and to collectivize their recycling Operations 543 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:19,439 Speaker 1: specifies More is also um worked with the has also 544 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,879 Speaker 1: worked in the efforts of the Zabalaza Anarchist Communist Front 545 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 1: in South Africa, as they also are strong opponents of 546 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,879 Speaker 1: social institution and you know, really being embedded in these 547 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:38,200 Speaker 1: social movements in Argentina, in Brazil, in South Africa, and 548 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,240 Speaker 1: in the US in the case of Black Rows Anarchist 549 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:45,360 Speaker 1: Federation specifies, More has been building as a key point 550 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 1: reference and so I'll leave us off with a code 551 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:54,320 Speaker 1: from the use of Front Collective, an anarchist group online. 552 00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:00,200 Speaker 1: If libertarian socialists merely organized with libertarian socialists, and they 553 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 1: will lose contact with the broader population they need to 554 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,719 Speaker 1: be reaching. If libertarian socialists merely joined social movements without 555 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:10,920 Speaker 1: advocating various libertarian socialist practices that can be used, then 556 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 1: social movements can easily drift into being susceptible to reformist 557 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:20,400 Speaker 1: and strategic liberal and Lendinist tendencies and opportunists. If libertarian 558 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,800 Speaker 1: socialists merely joined social movements and try to spread ideas 559 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 1: and practices in mere individual ways, they'll be far less 560 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 1: successful than a well thought out, coordinated effort. And if 561 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 1: theoretically specific libertarian socialist groups try to control social movements 562 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:39,520 Speaker 1: and popular organizations from the top down. Then such specific 563 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,880 Speaker 1: groups sacrifice their own principles and would reproduce hierarchical organizer. 564 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:48,720 Speaker 1: In contrast to authoritarian fine goddess conceptions, specifies more groups 565 00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:52,160 Speaker 1: and a specificity put their activity towards a self organization 566 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:58,680 Speaker 1: of movements and organizations ultimately, as I honestly love this 567 00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:02,600 Speaker 1: code from Shanti Alston, power to the people, where it 568 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:08,240 Speaker 1: stays with the people. Peace, Yes, Andrew, please please plug 569 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 1: your plug doubles because they are good and people should 570 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:16,240 Speaker 1: in fact listen to them, right, Thank you, Safety Foost. 571 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,759 Speaker 1: Of course, I will say that you can follow me 572 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:23,879 Speaker 1: on Twitter at Underscore Seeing Drew and on YouTube at 573 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 1: st Andrew's um and you can find me here apparently 574 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:33,320 Speaker 1: twice a month, which is pretty great. Shout out. It 575 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:40,720 Speaker 1: could happen here. Take care everyone, Peace again these again 576 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,320 Speaker 1: it could happen here as a production of pool Zone Media. 577 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,240 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 578 00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,360 Speaker 1: cool zone media dot com, or check us out on 579 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,960 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 580 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,759 Speaker 1: listen to podcasts. You can find sources for it could 581 00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,520 Speaker 1: happen here, updated monthly at cool Zone. You get dot 582 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,760 Speaker 1: com slash sources. Thanks for listening.