Speaker 1: From Marhard where Innovation of Money and power Collie in
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley NBN.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed lud Glove.
Speaker 3: Now from New York and San Francisco. This is Bloomberg
Speaker 3: Technology coming up a breakdown of Trump's VC pick, JD
Speaker 3: vance and his ties to Silicon Valley.
Speaker 4: Huawei tries to beat US curbs with a one point
Speaker 4: four billion dollar chip R and D center in China.
Speaker 3: We discuss and exclusive Bloomberg reporting on salesforce as the
Speaker 3: company cuts more of its workforce. First, let's check in
Speaker 3: on those markets at the moment head because we are
Speaker 3: barreling towards yet another record high on the S and
Speaker 3: P five five hundred. Look small cats doing a lot
Speaker 3: of the heavy lifting today as well. Retail sales come
Speaker 3: in solid. So even though it's not good enough to
Speaker 3: put off any sort of rake cup comes September, we
Speaker 3: are still seeing some resilience in the US consumer. We're
Speaker 3: up six tens a percent over the last two days
Speaker 3: on the S and P five hundred, and even though
Speaker 3: we see a little bit of tech money coming off
Speaker 3: the table when it comes to in video and others
Speaker 3: that led the charge more broadly, we are managing to
Speaker 3: push on to new record highs. But what are you
Speaker 3: looking at in terms of the microdata.
Speaker 4: Our top story is former President Trump picking JD. Vance
Speaker 4: the Senator as his running mate, his pick for VP
Speaker 4: on the Republican ticket. We talked a lot about the
Speaker 4: Trump trade in the last twenty four hours. Trump Media
Speaker 4: and Technology Group, the parent of truth Social is the
Speaker 4: most direct example of that.
Speaker 5: So this is a two day chart.
Speaker 4: We jump thirty percent or so Monday, biggest jump since March,
Speaker 4: and we're giving some of it back Tuesday. There's no
Speaker 4: negative sentiment per se, but I flag it.
Speaker 5: Because true social.
Speaker 4: In the first instance, carro is how Trump communicated that JD.
Speaker 5: Vance was his pick.
Speaker 3: Yeah, all about communication at the moment. Stock twits is
Speaker 3: one of the main stocks we can be on. Let's
Speaker 3: go to the communication on the ground from our very
Speaker 3: own Joe Matthews standing by, and look, there is a
Speaker 3: lot to be said about the prominence of the role
Speaker 3: of JD. Van's in Silicon Valley in venture capital. What
Speaker 3: are you making of it on the ground, Well.
Speaker 6: It's pretty interesting here. Obviously, a venture capital is first
Speaker 6: known to many of our viewers and listeners here on Bloomberg.
Speaker 6: But he's also become a much louder voice when it
Speaker 6: comes to economic policy, when it comes to government spending,
Speaker 6: when it comes to crypto. Now it's going to be
Speaker 6: interesting to see how he gets into Donald Trump's head here,
Speaker 6: potentially because Donald Trump is not known for taking a
Speaker 6: lot of advice and in this case from a running mate.
Speaker 6: We saw these two together in the convention hall last
Speaker 6: night and it was really about Donald Trump. Jd Vance
Speaker 6: was at his side, smiling, waving a celebration here in Milwaukee.
Speaker 6: But we have to remember this is Donald Trump's convention,
Speaker 6: this is Donald Trump's targeting.
Speaker 4: To jump in because I think Joe, sorry to jump in.
Speaker 4: I think we lost your mic for a second there.
Speaker 4: But you raise really interesting point, which is jd Vance
Speaker 4: has some very established views, for example, in the context
Speaker 4: of antitrust, where the conservative movement might be a little
Speaker 4: bit more split. Tell me about what it was like,
Speaker 4: though you mentioned that all the focus was on Trump broadly,
Speaker 4: how did the party react to jd Vance versus some
Speaker 4: of the other names that have been touted.
Speaker 6: Very well received. Look, that's going to be the deal.
Speaker 6: Though in a place hosting the Republican National Convention. Just
Speaker 6: spoke with Senator Bill Haggerty a short time ago, a
Speaker 6: Republican from Tennessee who is very pro crypto but also
Speaker 6: a very old line Republican. He thinks it's a great choice.
Speaker 6: We've spoken with a number of officials here in Milwaukee
Speaker 6: who seemed to be embracing this idea. I have to
Speaker 6: admit most people were surprised. To not be surprised. We've
Speaker 6: been talking about JD. Vance on a short list here
Speaker 6: for weeks and weeks, and a lot of folks thought
Speaker 6: that Donald Trump might move in a different direction here.
Speaker 6: So it's an interesting and potentially discipline move, but it
Speaker 6: tells us a lot about the future of the Republican Party.
Speaker 6: Jdvans is thirty nine years old and will be the
Speaker 6: heir apparent of the MAGA movement.
Speaker 5: Are most Joe Matthew on the ground in Milwaukee, thank you.
Speaker 7: No.
Speaker 5: JD.
Speaker 4: Vance spoke with Fox yesterday and talked about China.
Speaker 8: I think what President Trump has promised to do is
Speaker 8: go in there, negotiate with the Russians, ukradients, bring this
Speaker 8: thing to a rapid close so that American can focus
Speaker 8: on the real issue, which is China that's the biggest
Speaker 8: threat for our country, and we're completely distracted from them.
Speaker 4: Both presidential candidates want to be seen as tough on China.
Speaker 4: Trump promised to hike tariff on China across the board
Speaker 4: if reelected, and President Biden has boosted levies on Chinese
Speaker 4: electric vehicles.
Speaker 5: Joining us now is.
Speaker 4: Former Republican Congressman Denver Riggleman, who also served as an
Speaker 4: Air Force intelligence officer. He's the founder of security firm
Speaker 4: Riblemen Information and Intelligence Group.
Speaker 5: Morning to you, mister Riggleman.
Speaker 4: Let's just start with your reaction to JD. Vance as
Speaker 4: Trump's pick as running mate and as potential vice president.
Speaker 9: Well, you know, it's funny, you were right. I was
Speaker 9: listening to you. It wasn't that much of a surprise
Speaker 9: to me. But I do.
Speaker 7: Believe this is very, very good. I would say for
Speaker 7: the Democrats right now. I think his views on women.
Speaker 7: I think women voters are really going to carry this.
Speaker 7: So I think what they're going to do. They're going
Speaker 7: to attack Jady Vance on multiple policy situations where he's flipped.
Speaker 9: They're going to attack them on what he said about
Speaker 9: Trump before.
Speaker 7: But I think what this really does for the Democrats
Speaker 7: is I think they're actually going to actually look at
Speaker 7: his issues on women, and I think it actually helps
Speaker 7: a Democratic ticket. I was, you know, I wasn't surprised,
Speaker 7: but I did think he might go another route, maybe
Speaker 7: a Nikki Haley route or a female vice president.
Speaker 9: But I think with JD.
Speaker 7: Vance, I actually think it helps the Democrats based on
Speaker 7: what he said about women's issues and things of that nature.
Speaker 3: You an author yourself. You co authored a bit with
Speaker 3: Hunter Walker titled The Breach, which is published in October
Speaker 3: twenty two, all about January this Denver. You're also, I mean,
Speaker 3: someone who feels that you were jettison from your own
Speaker 3: party for having officiated a same sex marriage. So you've
Speaker 3: got an interesting relationship with the Republicans and put that
Speaker 3: out to our audience. But I do want to make
Speaker 3: sort of use of your expertise when it comes to
Speaker 3: cyber to intelligence to ultimately the risks that we heard
Speaker 3: coming from Jdvans about China and whether you think that
Speaker 3: is something to be standing upon, whether that is something
Speaker 3: that you agree with as a key concern, and whether
Speaker 3: it will be tackled by the Republicans.
Speaker 7: You know, regardless of jd Vance's viewer sale on January
Speaker 7: sixth as an election denier or what he does. The
Speaker 7: fact is China is a bipartisan they're sort of a support,
Speaker 7: a bipartisan support to look at China as a threat
Speaker 7: that they are. And you know, we talked about you know,
Speaker 7: stealing IP We've talked about things like that with China.
Speaker 7: When you're talking about their AI development or they're talking
Speaker 7: about their technical development, I think we have to be
Speaker 7: very careful about the regulatory structure here in America when
Speaker 7: we're talking about AI development, tech development.
Speaker 9: As far as China is concerned.
Speaker 7: I think actually, you know, jd and the Dems, you know,
Speaker 7: both sides really have some valid concerns about China. You know,
Speaker 7: I just wrote an opt that I'm trying to get
Speaker 7: in about Chinese drones and the built and Americans that
Speaker 7: use them and actually law enforcement agencies that use them
Speaker 7: and how they can be used as collection sources. So
Speaker 7: I do think right now, as on the China task
Speaker 7: for some Congress, I do believe that China is the
Speaker 7: one bipartisan issue where everybody can gel together, and regardless
Speaker 7: of their past views or things like that, I think
Speaker 7: that China the specific China issue is something we really
Speaker 7: have to worry about.
Speaker 5: Congressman.
Speaker 4: One interesting point that our correspondent raised on the ground
Speaker 4: in Milwaukee is how much President Trump will or will
Speaker 4: not listen to his vice president. Pick one policy area,
Speaker 4: for example, is big tech and antitrust. This is Bloomberg Technology,
Speaker 4: after all, and mister Vance's position has been quite clear.
Speaker 4: He thinks that big tech should be broken up, that
Speaker 4: there is too much power, and he's aligned with the FTC.
Speaker 4: Other parts of the conservative movement want to see shrunk
Speaker 4: regulators and shrunk agencies. How do you think that will
Speaker 4: play out?
Speaker 7: I don't actually think it's gonna be one of the
Speaker 7: bigger issues when we're going into the election. I think afterwards,
Speaker 7: if the Trump administration is to win, I think it's
Speaker 7: going to be actually a bit of a war on
Speaker 7: anti trust with big tech. You know, I've had my
Speaker 7: own issues with big tech, especially algorithmically and what they
Speaker 7: do in that environment.
Speaker 9: You know, my company actually looks at some of this.
Speaker 7: We're looking at social media platforms and disinformation and how
Speaker 7: to use AI and graphical networks to track those. So
Speaker 7: I do believe right now, when you're talking about anti
Speaker 7: trust and tech. I think that is going to be
Speaker 7: one of the biggest things that we talk about after
Speaker 7: the election, on how we either regulate if we break
Speaker 7: them up, or you know, if we look at some
Speaker 7: kind of algorithmic solutions, or we're looking at some other
Speaker 7: ways to see what's happening with big tech and how
Speaker 7: they're actually manipulating information. But I don't know if the
Speaker 7: anti trust stuff is going to go a long way,
Speaker 7: but I do think there's gonna there is going to
Speaker 7: be a reckoning when it comes to how algorithms to us,
Speaker 7: how people are targeted, and what disinformation and things like
Speaker 7: look like on big tech platforms.
Speaker 9: So that's really my opinion on it.
Speaker 7: It's a very complex topic, as you both know, but
Speaker 7: I do believe that that's probably going to be one
Speaker 7: of the lesser things they talk about during the campaign.
Speaker 7: But after whoever wins, I think there is going to
Speaker 7: be a reckoning with big tech on how we actually
Speaker 7: look at what they're doing on those platforms.
Speaker 3: Denva, you've brought us a lot of complexity, Congressman. More
Speaker 3: broadly to your views of what might hinder or propose
Speaker 3: and be a positive force for JD vance. But as
Speaker 3: a founder yourself. Does it make you positive that he's
Speaker 3: someone who understands venture capital and investing?
Speaker 7: You know, Actually, he doesn't make me confident at all.
Speaker 7: I mean when you think about where he's come from,
Speaker 7: what he's done. Yes, he's thirty nine, he wrote a book,
Speaker 7: and I am a founder. I am looking at venture capital, right,
Speaker 7: I do have investors.
Speaker 9: JD.
Speaker 7: Vance in the business side doesn't make me confident at all.
Speaker 7: I really don't think he knows what he's talking about
Speaker 7: in most respects. So I hate to be that blunt,
Speaker 7: but again, I think you're going to look at the
Speaker 7: staff around whatever president is elected. That's the people that
Speaker 7: actually do the policy making. I think JD. Bans is
Speaker 7: there specifically to get votes, maybe in rural areas, maybe
Speaker 7: they did polling. I don't think he's there for any
Speaker 7: of his business or technical expertise. So I think he's
Speaker 7: simply there because he's presenting a vision of what MAGA
Speaker 7: policies look like in the future. And I don't think
Speaker 7: it really has to do with his business acumen at all.
Speaker 7: And sorry if I'm blunt about it, but that's how
Speaker 7: I feel about it.
Speaker 5: Denver, we like blunt.
Speaker 3: We appreciate you, of course Denver Riggleman and founder of
Speaker 3: a Rigleman information intelligence group. But crucially, of course former
Speaker 3: congressmen ed what forgot? Coming up?
Speaker 5: Okay, coming up?
Speaker 4: Huawei gets set to break new grounds. Details behind the
Speaker 4: tech giants new one point four billion dollar.
Speaker 5: R and D hub coming up next.
Speaker 4: I think we're also taking a quick look at shares
Speaker 4: of event Bright. Just a terminal headline TikTok carriage. Tell
Speaker 4: me what's going on?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Interesting is we were just discussing China. Of course, TikTok
Speaker 3: has a new partnership with event Bright. We understand that
Speaker 3: these uses can add event bright links to TikTok videos.
Speaker 3: We see an absolute surge in then interday price up
Speaker 3: nineteen percent, but a whole lot of regulatory risks so
Speaker 3: surrounding TikTok here in the United States. This is a
Speaker 3: blue big technology time now for Talking Tech, A first
Speaker 3: up Match group, well, it's getting a third activist investor.
Speaker 5: According to a letter reviewed by Bloomberg.
Speaker 3: Starboard has built a six point six percent stake in
Speaker 3: the online dating company and plans to make a push
Speaker 3: for a sale of Match if the company fails to
Speaker 3: turn around its operations. Now Match's largest app, which is Tinder,
Speaker 3: has seen its paying customer based shrink for six six
Speaker 3: straight quarters. Plus Microsoft faces a UK investigation. Now the
Speaker 3: tech giant is set to undergo a full blown anti
Speaker 3: trust probe over its investment in Inflection AI, with emphasis
Speaker 3: over the hiring of former employees from the startup. Now,
Speaker 3: the Competition of Markets Authority has set a September eleventh
Speaker 3: deadline on whether it will escalate the investigation further. And
Speaker 3: Huawei nars completion of its chip research center in Shanghai.
Speaker 8: Now.
Speaker 3: The new development center will house thirty thousand personnel and
Speaker 3: covers one point six million square meters. Huawei is said
Speaker 3: to have spent over one point four billion dollars in
Speaker 3: investment costs for the new facilities and is expected to
Speaker 3: use it to pioneer breakthroughs in semiconductors and whiless networks.
Speaker 4: Well, let's stay with that story in Huawei and bringing
Speaker 4: bloomberg Zy and King here in San Francisco. Those seem
Speaker 4: like big numbers, But if there's one thing you've taught
Speaker 4: our audience in recent years, it's the development of new
Speaker 4: semiconductors and then the manufacturing of them takes a very
Speaker 4: long time. So what are the basics in this case
Speaker 4: with Huawei.
Speaker 9: Yeah, it does.
Speaker 10: I mean it's not like they're beginning from scratch here.
Speaker 10: This is more, you know, something that we should pay
Speaker 10: attention to as a symbolic but also as potential for
Speaker 10: what happens in the future. If they're bringing in more
Speaker 10: people the kind of numbers that they're talking about, that's
Speaker 10: a significant effort that would be at the same kind
Speaker 10: of scale of other companies.
Speaker 5: But it takes years and years.
Speaker 10: You know, two or three years to design one, then
Speaker 10: to get it into manufacturing, then it's probably not going
Speaker 10: to be that good. Then you need a second generation.
Speaker 10: So nothing to be panicking about this year or next year,
Speaker 10: but certainly a symbol of a serious effort that's underway.
Speaker 3: Well, what got usaw panicking originally was the Mate sixty,
Speaker 3: and we're anticipating a Mate seventy, which of course is
Speaker 3: then new flagship smartphones in and when we get our
Speaker 3: hands on it, how much do we understand of the
Speaker 3: technology they're using is still US dependent? How much eventually
Speaker 3: can we cut that off? Will it be cut off?
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean that's a very good question, and that
Speaker 10: there are a lot of opinions about the chip that's
Speaker 10: in the current This is called so called seven nanimeter chip.
Speaker 10: Some people are saying this just proves that Huawei has
Speaker 10: walked around the efforts to stop it. Others are saying, no, no,
Speaker 10: this is a clude job. This, this really isn't that important.
Speaker 10: This doesn't mean anything. They won't be able to get
Speaker 10: any better. So I think you're absolutely right to be
Speaker 10: pointing out that when that new phone hits market, there'll
Speaker 10: be a lot of people pople getting their hands on it,
Speaker 10: and the first thing they'll do is so in half
Speaker 10: and look at what's inside.
Speaker 3: Not exactly the way in which Huawei. I think one's
Speaker 3: supposed to be used for.
Speaker 5: This an interesting one.
Speaker 3: Othertheless, Bloomberg's inking, we so value your opinion and expertise.
Speaker 3: Thank you. Now let's look at another key story with
Speaker 3: software giants Salesforce, Bloomberg exclusively reporting that the company cut
Speaker 3: three hundred jobs this month. Now it's in an effort
Speaker 3: to streamline operations and control costs. Bloomberg's Ready Ford wrote
Speaker 3: the news for us, and they'd already been doing a
Speaker 3: lot of layoffs.
Speaker 11: Yeah.
Speaker 12: The entire tech industry obviously has shared thousands upon thousands
Speaker 12: of jobs over the last two issuars at this point,
Speaker 12: and there's been this question of is it over?
Speaker 5: Are we back to a normal period?
Speaker 12: And I think what Salesforce and a couple other companies
Speaker 12: have shown us is that this is just part of
Speaker 12: the game.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 12: You know what happened last week. It was just after
Speaker 12: the end of the second quarter, right, and we saw
Speaker 12: Salesforce a few other companies make these cuts. I think
Speaker 12: going forward, we will see tech companies no longer do
Speaker 12: this thing where the headcount is just up into the
Speaker 12: right and definitely rather that they're going to continually kind
Speaker 12: of cut over here, higher over here and just monitor
Speaker 12: those expenses.
Speaker 4: Brady, this is three hundred roles that you're reporting being cut.
Speaker 4: I jump into my Bloomberg terminal dso quickest way to
Speaker 4: check workforce, and I'm seeing seventy two thousand. But as
Speaker 4: you point out, it's a bit of a broader, broader effort.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 4: What's I guess sentiment of Salesforce staff right now? A
Speaker 4: lot of them watch this program.
Speaker 12: Yeah, I would say sentiment is that idea of like
Speaker 12: you know, for a long time, large companies, whether it
Speaker 12: was Salesforce into an open text whatever. There was more
Speaker 12: tolerance for Hey, we're gonna have divisions that are more
Speaker 12: speculative events. They're nice to have, and I think they're
Speaker 12: just that ruthless reprioritization going on.
Speaker 5: I mean into it cut.
Speaker 12: I want to say. It was eighteen hundred people a
Speaker 12: week before, and they attribute a lot of it to underperformance.
Speaker 12: They said, this is not a head count reduction. We're
Speaker 12: just going to rehire people who are going to be
Speaker 12: doing more relevant work for us. So it's just that
Speaker 12: sense of if you are not producing, whether you're a
Speaker 12: salesperson or some other role, we were able to show
Speaker 12: your hit in the P and L, you might be
Speaker 12: at risk.
Speaker 13: I think.
Speaker 4: Thanks Brady Ford with another piece of excellent reporting.
Speaker 5: Thank you, thank you very much.
Speaker 3: So Amazon's two day summer sale is underway, with real
Speaker 3: time data actually suggesting that sales are rising about thirteen
Speaker 3: percent in the first six hours of the event. That's
Speaker 3: compared to the same period last year. That data coming
Speaker 3: from Momentum Commerce, which actually manages about fifty brands in
Speaker 3: a variety of product categories. CEO John tsche is with
Speaker 3: us and John, you have such a breadth of type
Speaker 3: of things being sold and being demanded by the consumer.
Speaker 3: Is it everything?
Speaker 14: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Yeah, everybody
Speaker 14: should should get there figurative while it's open, because there's
Speaker 14: great deals on Amazon today. At Momentum Commerce, we support
Speaker 14: brands across all kinds of categories, and that's certainly one
Speaker 14: trend we're seeing so far in the early innings of
Speaker 14: Prime Day today. Where historically Prime Day has been an
Speaker 14: event with great participation from consumer electronics gadget brands, back
Speaker 14: to school offerings trying to pull that demand forward, and
Speaker 14: a lot of Amazon's own devices. This year, we're seeing
Speaker 14: great offers from jewelry brands, fashion brands, home and kitchen brands,
Speaker 14: so beauty brands are participating really widely. So it really
Speaker 14: is the everything store. And with Prime Day today, we're
Speaker 14: seeing deals across the board.
Speaker 4: John, Amazon's kind of jumped around a little bit on
Speaker 4: the timing of Prime Days. They've experimented a different different
Speaker 4: parts of year. Is there any sort of seasonality factor
Speaker 4: that motivates consumers to go out spend early catch deals
Speaker 4: in the summer rather than say, later in the year,
Speaker 4: like in October.
Speaker 14: Yeah, I think you know. A few years back, Amazon
Speaker 14: shifted to October for the first time as a function
Speaker 14: of COVID and disruption from COVID, and then they've held
Speaker 14: that and sort of done two Prime Days the last
Speaker 14: few years. You know, what we see in the data
Speaker 14: certainly is that the July the summer Prime Day has
Speaker 14: really been seared into the minds of the US consumer
Speaker 14: in particular, and we're now seeing the entire retail industry followsuit.
Speaker 14: So if you wander around the web and go to
Speaker 14: any D two C site, you're going to see callbacks
Speaker 14: to Prime Day offerings, even on a direct site, and
Speaker 14: certainly you see Target and Walmart and others all running
Speaker 14: similar events timed around Amazon. So this is the tenth
Speaker 14: Prime Day and it's certainly become part of culture this year,
Speaker 14: which is really exciting.
Speaker 4: What's different for Amazon now, I think is the influence
Speaker 4: and competition from some of the Chinese players Ali Express
Speaker 4: Team Ali Express went so big on the Euros even
Speaker 4: on foss Sport here in the United States, but we
Speaker 4: served thirteen percent growth in the first six hours. What
Speaker 4: do you see in the market more broadly through this
Speaker 4: prime window.
Speaker 14: Yeah, well, you know, keep in mind a non trivial
Speaker 14: percentage of goods that are sold on Amazon are from
Speaker 14: factory brands in China that are coming direct via the
Speaker 14: Amazon marketplace. And you know, Amazon has designs to compete
Speaker 14: more directly with Timu in the Lakes with a discount
Speaker 14: section that's going to be added to the site. So
Speaker 14: there definitely is competition in that area. But you know,
Speaker 14: none of those players can compete with Amazon on logistics
Speaker 14: and distribution. I mean, I bought some legos from my
Speaker 14: kids this morning on Amazon and they're going to arrive tomorrow.
Speaker 14: You know, in that premium convenience is really challenging Frowy
Speaker 14: Express and Team Moods to compete with. So it's a
Speaker 14: different proposition there.
Speaker 3: John, You do that in the UK and it arrives
Speaker 3: the same day, which is also very phenomenal, and it's
Speaker 3: interesting you're obviously buying for your children. We see more
Speaker 3: broadly the macro picture of retail sales looking resilient today.
Speaker 3: Every time I opened TikTok, I got an ad for
Speaker 3: sixteenth seventeenth Prime Day and it was Megande Stallion.
Speaker 5: You talk about as.
Speaker 3: Being a cultural moment. How much are we seeing gen
Speaker 3: Z driving the money? How much is it you driving
Speaker 3: the money? Who is demographically purchasing right now.
Speaker 14: Yeah, I think historically it's been across the board, but
Speaker 14: it hasn't been as strong with gen Z and younger demos,
Speaker 14: and I think that's probably certainly part of the reason
Speaker 14: why Amazon shows Meg Stallion as the spokesperson to promote
Speaker 14: the event. I think they did a great job with
Speaker 14: the lead in promotions. They also did great you know
Speaker 14: I you know, sadly get an Amazon package at my
Speaker 14: house every day, and the packing tape for the last
Speaker 14: month has been really cheeky kind of promotions getting everybody
Speaker 14: excited about Prime Day. So the lead in has been
Speaker 14: really terrific, and I think we're seeing demographics across the
Speaker 14: board leverage Amazon because it's so convenient, the selection is
Speaker 14: so wide. A lot of the brands we work with
Speaker 14: are beauty brands that are targeting a younger demographic, and
Speaker 14: they're all participating pretty aggressively in Prime Day this year.
Speaker 14: One of our client's first aid Beauty, has incredible discounts
Speaker 14: available today, So seeing a lot of different offerings, I
Speaker 14: think that's the piece that is most interesting.
Speaker 9: This year.
Speaker 14: The event seems to be on pace. Our data suggests
Speaker 14: thirteen percent year over year growth through ten am Eastern.
Speaker 14: Generally peak shopping for prime days between ten am and
Speaker 14: one pm Eastern is still really early. But if we
Speaker 14: hold that track, that's going to be four hundred and
Speaker 14: fifty million items sold in two days. Yeah, consumers are
Speaker 14: going to save about three billion dollars. And I think
Speaker 14: the distribution of those sales is going to be across
Speaker 14: a lot of different categories appealing to very different demographics.
Speaker 14: So it's the everything store and the everything sale, and
Speaker 14: people are excited.
Speaker 3: John Tch, We thank you, see your moment in comments.
Speaker 3: Welcome back to Bluemotechnology. I'm Caroline heid in New York
Speaker 3: and I.
Speaker 5: Met love Loow in San Francisco.
Speaker 4: A very quick check on the market and as that
Speaker 4: one hundred is basically flat. Some of the laggards in
Speaker 4: there are the bigger tech company's Microsoft Meta. Some of
Speaker 4: the chip makers as well are selling. For whatever reason,
Speaker 4: we continue to talk about the Trump trade because we
Speaker 4: have the big news item that jd Vance is Trump's VP.
Speaker 4: Pick the two that I pick out our Trump Media
Speaker 4: and Technology Group.
Speaker 5: Parent of True Social.
Speaker 4: Yes, down almost ten percent in the session, but remember
Speaker 4: it jumped more than thirty percent yesterday. This is the
Speaker 4: most direct version of the Trump Trade. Many use this
Speaker 4: stock as a kind of reflection or proxy of how
Speaker 4: they assess the odds of either presidential candidate's fortunes. And
Speaker 4: of course, as we talked about earlier, former President Trump
Speaker 4: used truth social to announce jd Vance in the first instance.
Speaker 5: I also put Tesla softer, just a few tens of percent.
Speaker 4: But remember it's been buoyant again, some saying Tesla Trump
Speaker 4: trade because Elon Musk came out so quickly, not just
Speaker 4: in support of President Trump following the assassination attempts of
Speaker 4: the weekend, but also in support of jd Vance's the
Speaker 4: VP pick character.
Speaker 3: And let's just talk about exactly that, the VP pick
Speaker 3: jd Vance, major Silicon Valley investors, the choice of the
Speaker 3: Ohio senator, and former venture capitalists as a runningway, it
Speaker 3: seemed to be celebrating it a move that puts the
Speaker 3: tech industry center stage potentially if Trump wins the White House.
Speaker 3: We see some members of the Founder's fund currently coming
Speaker 3: out saying the saying we have a former tech we
Speaker 3: see in the White House joining us as Bloomberg's Mike
Speaker 3: Shephard not the only post that was out there, Mike
Speaker 3: we're just hearing about Tesla's performance today. But you know
Speaker 3: Mask himself saying Trump Vance resounds with victory. What do
Speaker 3: you make the tie to venture capital.
Speaker 11: Well, it really is a reflection what we're seeing out
Speaker 11: there now, all the champagne quirks popping in so called
Speaker 11: little tech about their sensation that hey, we're being seen,
Speaker 11: we are finally here, we have arrived, and we will
Speaker 11: have a seat at the table. And they have, you know,
Speaker 11: felt for many years that they have taken a back
Speaker 11: seat to the larger tech companies, to their larger brethren
Speaker 11: in the forum of the major tech companies that we
Speaker 11: spend so much time talking about Google, Microsoft, Apple and
Speaker 11: so forth, and the ones that they feel have taken
Speaker 11: advantage of them in some ways. And this choice of.
Speaker 13: JD.
Speaker 11: Vance by Trump really sends that signal to the group
Speaker 11: of investors from Silicon Value who've also been supporting Trump
Speaker 11: in increasing numbers too, like David Sachs who spoke at
Speaker 11: the convention last night, and writers as well.
Speaker 4: I want to make one point, which is many bench
Speaker 4: capitalists or some bench capitalists are supporting JD. Vance's appointment,
Speaker 4: not all. Just would make that point as it was
Speaker 4: raised to me on social media. Give us a little
Speaker 4: bit of the backstory. You know, I think we take
Speaker 4: for granted on Bloomberg Technology. We know quite a lot
Speaker 4: about JD.
Speaker 5: Vance.
Speaker 4: We've been covering, for example, Peter Teel's backing of him
Speaker 4: for quite some time. But there are many in the audience,
Speaker 4: Mike that may be asking, well, we don't get the
Speaker 4: point here.
Speaker 5: Who is he and what's he about?
Speaker 11: Well, what they may be seeing is in JD. Vance
Speaker 11: somebody who is a lot more than just a venture capitalist.
Speaker 11: He is somebody who's also expressed skepticism about the US
Speaker 11: support for Ukraine in its efforts to repel the Russian invasion.
Speaker 11: And people are not just single issue voters. They're not
Speaker 11: thinking that, well, because he is from the venture million
Speaker 11: that I therefore must support him. They are going to
Speaker 11: look at a lot of other positions that he has
Speaker 11: taken over the years, including on that as they make
Speaker 11: their choices and as they are trying to decide. One
Speaker 11: interesting thing about Vance is how he has aligned against
Speaker 11: what he calls a big tech oligarchy. He has even
Speaker 11: gone so far as to express praise, rare praise for
Speaker 11: a Biden administration official of FTC Chair Lena Kahan, who
Speaker 11: has been pursuing competition enforcement cases against a lot of
Speaker 11: those big tech companies.
Speaker 4: We will get into the antitrust position appointed policy in
Speaker 4: just a little while. Bloombergs Mike Shepherd, who leads the
Speaker 4: intersection of our coverage.
Speaker 5: Of tech and politics. Thank you.
Speaker 4: So let's continue the conversation on JD. Vance and bring
Speaker 4: in a former colleague of his. Crystal mckella is a
Speaker 4: former managing director at a Peter teel back growth stage
Speaker 4: fund called Methrill, where she works with Vance. She's currently
Speaker 4: a managing partner at alf VC. Good morning, Welcome to
Speaker 4: the studio. So very similar question to Mike. Give us
Speaker 4: the detail of your time spent working alongside JD.
Speaker 5: Evans and what you learned about him.
Speaker 4: And for full disclosure, we got you on the show
Speaker 4: because you are quoted in that Bloomberg story overnight that
Speaker 4: we were just discussing with Michael.
Speaker 5: Great.
Speaker 15: Well, thank you so much.
Speaker 2: I really appreciate the opportunity tunity to be here. I
Speaker 2: had a fantastic experience with JD. I worked with him
Speaker 2: for about a year when he was just starting out
Speaker 2: in Silicon Valley. We was just starting out as a
Speaker 2: venture capitalist, and he was fantastic.
Speaker 15: To work with.
Speaker 2: I mean, everyone knows how intelligent he is. But one
Speaker 2: thing that really shone through in those early days working
Speaker 2: with him one on one, sitting down with founders, listening
Speaker 2: to their stories, evaluating deals, was how smart he is
Speaker 2: and how hard working he was.
Speaker 15: And he continues to be.
Speaker 2: You can't be a polymath and get up to speed
Speaker 2: on a lot of different industries unless you're both smart
Speaker 2: and willing to put in the time and put in
Speaker 2: the work. And I found in him an eager, utterly
Speaker 2: without ego, smart, hard working, really fun guy whose values
Speaker 2: were very centered. And you know, and there's been a
Speaker 2: lot of talk about how JD is a Silicon Valley candidate. Yes,
Speaker 2: and yes, on the one hand, that's true. He's going
Speaker 2: to be good at for Silicon Valley. He's going to
Speaker 2: be good for the country because he is pro growth,
Speaker 2: he is pro innovation, and he's also pro eliminating those
Speaker 2: regulations that strangle industry, that strangle growth.
Speaker 4: But that's really only one quick point on that that
Speaker 4: our editors were at pains this morning to point out
Speaker 4: there's a difference between an association with Bench Capital and
Speaker 4: the technology industry at large. His position on big tech
Speaker 4: is very clear that actually he's in favor of breaking
Speaker 4: up big tech and increased oversight by the FTC. That
Speaker 4: might be at odds with the rest of the Republican base.
Speaker 4: As a bench capitalist, what do you make of that?
Speaker 2: As a visure capitalist and as a former antitrust lawyer
Speaker 2: way back when I can say unequivocally that predatory behavior
Speaker 2: on the part of large firms with market power is
Speaker 2: unequivocally bad for the economy, is that, and particularly when
Speaker 2: those companies control a lot of the speech that we
Speaker 2: see and control our access to information, is bad for
Speaker 2: our democracy. So, as an former anti trust lawyer, as
Speaker 2: a VC, as someone who cares about our democracy and
Speaker 2: freedom of speech, I unequivocally agree with jd on his
Speaker 2: skepticism and concern about some of the very large technology
Speaker 2: companies in our economy.
Speaker 3: I'm interested in Crystal to go back to it. And
Speaker 3: do you think JD. Vance himself will be kind of
Speaker 3: critical of the way we're all going berserk that there's
Speaker 3: a VC in the White House.
Speaker 15: I'm so sorry I didn't completely well.
Speaker 4: Karr was saying, I'll jump in carry what Caroline was saying,
Speaker 4: is that what do you think JD Vance makes of
Speaker 4: all of the media coverage that he's a bench capitalist
Speaker 4: or format VC and he's now potentially going to be
Speaker 4: in an administration.
Speaker 15: You know, JD is an extremely humble guy.
Speaker 2: I remember when his book first came out, he was
Speaker 2: gobsmacked by how much attention he got and by how
Speaker 2: much his words meant to so many people. So I imagine
Speaker 2: that he is feeling a lot of humility right now
Speaker 2: in general for being, you know, at being chosen for
Speaker 2: the vice presidential pick by President Trump.
Speaker 11: Uh.
Speaker 2: And I think that he would feel this, you know,
Speaker 2: the same way that I'm expressing right now, which is
Speaker 2: fundamentally and even on day one when he was in
Speaker 2: Silicon Valley, his driving force is his concern for the
Speaker 2: forgotten working class, the people in this nation, at this
Speaker 2: nation's corps who have suffered because of the hollowing out
Speaker 2: of traditional industry and the opioid epidemic. That was what
Speaker 2: animated his you know, his desire to write his book,
Speaker 2: which was extremely raw, extremely vulnerable, and really he sacrificed
Speaker 2: his own privacy to share to shine a light on
Speaker 2: a huge problem facing our nation's core that he wanted.
Speaker 15: To make better.
Speaker 2: I think that, you know, my experience with him when
Speaker 2: he was working in venture capital was this was his
Speaker 2: primary This was his primary driving force.
Speaker 15: This was at the core of his identity.
Speaker 2: So, yes, he'll be good for Silicon Valley because he's
Speaker 2: pro growth, his pro andavate, he's pro open source, and
Speaker 2: he is pro.
Speaker 15: The innovation economy.
Speaker 2: And he's going to be really good for the country
Speaker 2: because of his genuine compassion for the forgotten middle class,
Speaker 2: for the forgotten working class.
Speaker 3: But Crystal, many feel that venture capital doesn't help the
Speaker 3: forgotten middle class. Many feel that in fact, artificial intelligence
Speaker 3: is going to do a disservice to it. Yet more,
Speaker 3: can you twin for us what seems to be almost
Speaker 3: at loggerheads that here's someone who really cares about the
Speaker 3: hollowing out, who really cares about an operiod crisis, about
Speaker 3: the forgotten, at the same time as he's backing startup
Speaker 3: companies that perhaps will take away jobs some blue collar workers.
Speaker 3: Yet further, do you think he was in any way
Speaker 3: trying to dove tell those two things together when you
Speaker 3: worked with him, Well, I don't.
Speaker 2: See AI replacing steel workers anytime soon. And you know
Speaker 2: one of the things that venture capital is an enormous category,
Speaker 2: everything from social media to national security technology, which is
Speaker 2: a space that I work in, to healthcare, and I
Speaker 2: think that you know, the best technology is the one
Speaker 2: that moves things forward. It's the one that provides enhanced
Speaker 2: capabilities for reduced cost. A lot of venture capital dollars
Speaker 2: are going in directions that I think.
Speaker 15: Are destructive for our society.
Speaker 2: We've certainly seen the destructive force of social media on
Speaker 2: family structures, on teenagers. So there is a whole category
Speaker 2: of companies that are invested in by venture capital firms
Speaker 2: that are extremely destructive to the fabric of American society.
Speaker 2: And then there is a whole other section of companies
Speaker 2: that are invested in that truly will you answer our
Speaker 2: prayers that will make us as a nation healthier and safer.
Speaker 2: That is the area where I invest that is the
Speaker 2: area where Peter Teel focuses a lot of his attention.
Speaker 15: That is where JD was investing. That's where his firm.
Speaker 2: Colin Greenspond, a former colleague of mine who worked with
Speaker 2: JD at his fund.
Speaker 15: That's where his focus is. So I think it's hard to.
Speaker 2: Lump all the venture capital together in one bucket.
Speaker 3: Well said, and of course a lot VC cong saying
Speaker 3: that your mission driven founders, and it's all about product
Speaker 3: solving urgent problems. So Crystal, thank you for the perspective
Speaker 3: for bringing us to your knowledge of what jd Vance
Speaker 3: was like.
Speaker 5: To work with. We appreciate it you.
Speaker 3: While coming up, we're going to bring in Cameron Porter,
Speaker 3: general partner at Steel Atlas, talking steel workers, but in
Speaker 3: fact about really the role of energy here, the importance
Speaker 3: of nuclear power in artificial intelligence development, development, and well
Speaker 3: the relevance of energy policy in this US election.
Speaker 15: This is Bluebog technology.
Speaker 3: So yesterday was the start of the RNC with a
Speaker 3: theme make America Wealthy Again. Now, part of yesterday's discussion, therefore,
Speaker 3: was around energy. Let's continue the conversation with today's VC
Speaker 3: spotlight Cameron Porter, general partner at Steel at This with
Speaker 3: us joining us to discuss nuclear power. And this has
Speaker 3: become something that we've really wanted to tackle on the
Speaker 3: show because more and more people are saying the energy
Speaker 3: needs of our artificial intelligence can only be solved to
Speaker 3: a large extent by something like nuclear What type of
Speaker 3: nuclear power needs to be brought to bear from your investment.
Speaker 16: Thank you for having me here, Caroline, And yeah, nuclear
Speaker 16: is a critical part for the US policy, both because
Speaker 16: of enterprise technologies like AI, but also because that AI
Speaker 16: can be used in military applications, so it's really a
Speaker 16: national security issue. And for looking at nuclear energy broadly,
Speaker 16: there's really two buckets fission and fusion.
Speaker 13: Fusion's a bet on the future.
Speaker 16: Fission is what's here today and that's where we're investing,
Speaker 16: and we're seeing a lot of dollars in the US
Speaker 16: flow into those new advanced reactor technologies.
Speaker 4: Cameron, good morning to you from San Francisco. You know
Speaker 4: you position the firm in your investments is kind of
Speaker 4: industrial technology, something we have.
Speaker 5: Discussed on the show.
Speaker 4: We also look at some of the public equities in
Speaker 4: the space that have seen in recent months twenty twenty
Speaker 4: four quite incredible gains. Is that evidence enough that this
Speaker 4: is now a point of consciousness for the presidential candidates
Speaker 4: in DC, but also your broader investment community.
Speaker 16: Yeah, these public gains are just the beginning of the
Speaker 16: signs that these tailwinds are real and here to stay.
Speaker 16: I think that we even saw the beginnings of how
Speaker 16: important public policy in nuclear and energy more broadly, is
Speaker 16: starting with Trump. Trump began with the Nuclear Energy Innovation
Speaker 16: and Modernization Act. Biden has continued to push forward policies,
Speaker 16: including the Advance Act that was just passed in order
Speaker 16: to make it easier for US to license new reactors,
Speaker 16: in order to make it easier for US to finance
Speaker 16: those reactors, and the private markets, both at the late
Speaker 16: stage and the early stage, are now taking note of
Speaker 16: that and investing in companies that can start delivering on
Speaker 16: this demand.
Speaker 3: Former President Trump was on the All In podcasts recently saying,
Speaker 3: I'm okay with nuclear. They have to do where it
Speaker 3: makes sense. So talk about where you see nuclear making sense.
Speaker 3: What investments you made that make sense. I know that
Speaker 3: you're looking a lot at transmutics in particular. How are
Speaker 3: they doing things differently, where are they based, what are
Speaker 3: they solving?
Speaker 16: Look, we backtra mutechs because there were three major problems
Speaker 16: with nuclear in the past. Safety, How do we prevent
Speaker 16: things like Chernobyl and three Mile Island waste? How do
Speaker 16: we make sure that we're not spending billions of dollars?
Speaker 16: I mean in the US, we literally were about to
Speaker 16: spend at yuck amountain one hundred billion dollars to deal
Speaker 16: with the waste problem.
Speaker 13: And then how do we deal with proliferation?
Speaker 16: How do we make sure the nuclear systems we are
Speaker 16: developing here in the US can to be employed globally
Speaker 16: without risking people developing nuclear weapons. And so the reason
Speaker 16: we invested in Transmutex is their use of a particle
Speaker 16: accelerator allows them to develop a reactor that solves those
Speaker 16: three core issues, ushering in what we think is the
Speaker 16: future of nuclear energy.
Speaker 4: During that episode of All Lane, I think what Trump
Speaker 4: was discussing with its host was a comparison with Europe, right.
Speaker 4: I think France was the specific example, but the UK,
Speaker 4: where Caroline and I hail from, has some active nuclear reactors.
Speaker 4: This is something the United States is not just dealing
Speaker 4: with in twenty twenty four. Talk to us about the
Speaker 4: timeline of what it would take to bring nuclear back
Speaker 4: in a meaningful way.
Speaker 16: To look, this is a decade long investment period. It's
Speaker 16: going to take several years for these systems to get licensed,
Speaker 16: and then probably five years in an optimistic case, for
Speaker 16: them to get built. Those are the timelines that we're
Speaker 16: seeing in China, which right now has the most reactors
Speaker 16: under construction and it's worthwhile investment. I mean, I think
Speaker 16: we can look at the case study of France versus Germany.
Speaker 16: Germany went all in on wind and solar. When Russia
Speaker 16: pulled the plug on natural gas, all of a sudden,
Speaker 16: their grid was thrown into a state of shock and volatility.
Speaker 16: That's undermined their manufacturing industry to today. Whereas France, because
Speaker 16: of their reliance on nuclear, which is reliable, self sovereign,
Speaker 16: they've been able to maintain relatively stable energy prices.
Speaker 13: And so that's what the US should index on going forward.
Speaker 3: And do you think it will and ultimately how quickly
Speaker 3: do you think policy will change.
Speaker 13: I think policy is already changing.
Speaker 16: We saw under Biden the commitment at COP twenty eight
Speaker 16: to three x nuclear here in the US, and that's
Speaker 16: a commitment now that we're seeing backed up by policy
Speaker 16: like the Advance Act, which I think it's worth noting
Speaker 16: it was an incredibly bipartisan bill, and that's going to
Speaker 16: continue under Trump or Biden. If it's Trump, I expect
Speaker 16: to see more or deregulation to get reactors to market sooner.
Speaker 16: And if it's Biden, we're going to see incentives in
Speaker 16: order to help promote the investment in these companies.
Speaker 4: Cameron Port, a general partner at Steel Atlas, on a
Speaker 4: very important nuclear discussion.
Speaker 5: Thank you very much.
Speaker 4: Let's bring in Rasanking Kid Smith, COO of Frankfurt based
Speaker 4: Northern Data Group, a specialist tech company providing high performance
Speaker 4: computing solutions. The company also expecting to see revenue triple
Speaker 4: as demand for AI continues to grow. An incredible backstory
Speaker 4: with SAM where in simple terms, you go from being
Speaker 4: largely focused on crypto and mining and through acquisitions high
Speaker 4: performance data center in the AI context, it seems to
Speaker 4: be that part that's going to be the driver of
Speaker 4: this revenue tripling. Explain that long term forecast please.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think just to sort of contextualize, the
Speaker 1: Northern Data Group is, as you say, a high performance
Speaker 1: computing solutions provider. We have an established position in the
Speaker 1: HPC market as a result of our legacy in cryptocurrency mining.
Speaker 1: But HPC is now front and center, or the pixel shovels,
Speaker 1: if you will, of the boom and generative AI, and
Speaker 1: we're witnessing a real global race to meet the soaring
Speaker 1: demand for generative AI and it's massive computing requirements. Companies
Speaker 1: are really scrambling to secure access to the latest GPUs
Speaker 1: which will be housed inside of data centers. And there's
Speaker 1: a real short supply of data censors too, So unlike
Speaker 1: many others, we are really hyper focused on investing not
Speaker 1: just in the most cutting edge hardware and software technologies,
Speaker 1: but also in the most sustainable data center environments. Our
Speaker 1: environments are more broadly powered by one hundred percent carbon
Speaker 1: free energy, and we might really like to keep that
Speaker 1: carbon footprint at the most minimal point. The other ethos
Speaker 1: is really really distant to us.
Speaker 4: Arisany we just showed the shares, I point out they're
Speaker 4: probably hiring the session after two hundred and fourteen million
Speaker 4: euros worth of share isssudents earlier. I think I'm right
Speaker 4: in saying this is the first time you've spoken publicly
Speaker 4: since former employees of the company a filed suit and
Speaker 4: made allegations against the management team of fraud, summarizing they
Speaker 4: say that you falsely misrepresented some of the financials at
Speaker 4: the company. We just wanted to give you the opportunity
Speaker 4: to comment publicly on Bloomberg Technology about that suit.
Speaker 1: Yes, so, I think anybody with even a cursory understanding
Speaker 1: of our business will know that those complaints are completely
Speaker 1: with our meriat. We have already filed a motion to dismiss,
Speaker 1: and we're confident that the legal process will vindicate the company.
Speaker 1: We're publicly traded, all of our financials are publicly available,
Speaker 1: along with our stable cash and financial position. So while
Speaker 1: this is somewhat of a nuisance, what we are really
Speaker 1: laser focused on now is executing against our strategic plan
Speaker 1: and the ultimate credibility of our business and the innovation
Speaker 1: that we drive is built on that delivery. So we're
Speaker 1: not worried about it at all.
Speaker 3: You're not worried, are you, So therefore not worried that
Speaker 3: you might look at doing another listing here in the
Speaker 3: United States. It's there's been a sort of a theme
Speaker 3: of companies that will begin crypto and crypto mining, pivoting
Speaker 3: and becoming a key resource in the world of AI.
Speaker 3: I think a core weave here in the US.
Speaker 5: Would you tap investors here?
Speaker 1: So just as a sort of starting point, of course,
Speaker 1: I can't comment on market speculation, but as I said,
Speaker 1: our business is really performing well and the AI sector
Speaker 1: is driving. But of course we want to operate in
Speaker 1: the spaces that are most open to the advancement of
Speaker 1: generative AI and the business that we are driving. But
Speaker 1: it also just as a point of clarity, of course,
Speaker 1: we are not pivoting from one thing.
Speaker 9: To the other.
Speaker 1: We have used our ground route in HPC solutions to
Speaker 1: develop new lessons and take the learnings from those lessons
Speaker 1: to provide new use cases like generative AI and machine learning.
Speaker 3: How important is the US part of the business versus
Speaker 3: German and versus European How does it differ? Very briefly, Rosa.
Speaker 1: So the European environment is our hearts. So we are
Speaker 1: a European based company with a European hard but we
Speaker 1: are a global business with a global footprint, and so
Speaker 1: we use the investment and you will have seen, as
Speaker 1: you've mentioned our capital raise that will be used to
Speaker 1: expand our footprints into the US. So, however, though that
Speaker 1: part of the business in Europe is truly important to
Speaker 1: us because it provides some of our true usps. We
Speaker 1: are data sovereign, we have access to large amounts of
Speaker 1: hy electricity, so these are true usps for us and
Speaker 1: the go forward.
Speaker 3: Razan Okay Smith, great to have some time with you
Speaker 3: of Northern Data.
Speaker 5: We appreciate it.
Speaker 3: That does it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 4: Incredible amount to recap a lot of Bloomberg reporting. To
Speaker 4: check it out on our podcast. You know where to
Speaker 4: find it. This is Bloomberg Technology.