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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Behind the Bastards, the podcast where we

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Speaker 1: talk about terrible people. And this is part two of

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Speaker 1: our series on John of God. Bastard is also Oprah

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Speaker 1: Umr and Susan Casey, the author of that terrible article.

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Speaker 1: So pull up a fine Chilean red. Get ready to

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Speaker 1: hear some more. Um, I have to this is this

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Speaker 1: is off topic, but I want to tell something. I

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Speaker 1: just ran across to my guest Andrew T before we

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Speaker 1: roll in the epode, Andrew, how are you doing today?

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Speaker 1: What's up? J O G Ready to hear about the

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Speaker 1: rest of this motherfucker? Well, before we do that, I

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Speaker 1: just came across something on Twitter. Um, it's a book

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Speaker 1: that's being sold. It's like a it's like a part

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Speaker 1: of the Joe Biden grift, because like every politician has

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Speaker 1: a griff now. And this is a coloring book called

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Speaker 1: a Hot Cup of Joe and it has a cartoon

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Speaker 1: of sexy Joe Biden on it. Um. Yeah, a piping

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Speaker 1: hot coloring book with America's sexiest moderate Joe Biden. Uh. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's awful. It is abuse. Yeah that's ah well, that's

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Speaker 1: fucking horrendous. It's almost worth buying so you can have

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Speaker 1: it for whatever happens with the election, just to have

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Speaker 1: this fucking horrible thing. Yeah, I don't want to give

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Speaker 1: this person money, but I do want to see inside

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Speaker 1: this terrible, terrible criminal coloring book. Um. The sexy seventies

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Speaker 1: something politicians thing is one of the weirdest aspects of

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Speaker 1: modern politics that like you have these two old and

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Speaker 1: clearly not in the best of health men, Joe Biden

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Speaker 1: and Donald Trump, who both of whose supporters have to

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Speaker 1: depict them as like muscle bound, like like like like hunks,

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Speaker 1: Like guys, they're dying men. Stop it, Like you don't, like,

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Speaker 1: even if you think they're the right person to be president,

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Speaker 1: you don't have to pretend that they're Like you don't

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Speaker 1: have to get thirsty about them. What is wrong with

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Speaker 1: you people? They both they're diapers, Like, let's talk about

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Speaker 1: that situation. They're not out here like bench pressing. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're not doing windsprints, Like Joe's abs don't exist because

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Speaker 1: he's an old sick man, and yeah, that's okay, that's

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Speaker 1: fine idea, but like whatever, like just stop it, stop it.

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Speaker 1: All of the flush on his face is melting day

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Speaker 1: by day. It's what happens here as you die? Like,

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Speaker 1: which is they're they're dying, yeah, like the like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is not on them because they're like pretty normally

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Speaker 1: aged men for their ages, like people, what you stop

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Speaker 1: making they don't have to make them sexy? What is

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Speaker 1: wrong with you? If I could just do a tiny

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Speaker 1: pull and just point out that Sophie's idea of a

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Speaker 1: sexy man is Popeye, we can just live in that

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Speaker 1: for a second. I dare you to find a better

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Speaker 1: example of uncut eroticism than Robin Williams as Popeye and

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Speaker 1: Popeye movie that absolutely exists. Look it up. It's fucking

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Speaker 1: something else. Insanity. Yeah, people made that. People made that

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Speaker 1: and no one stopped them, Isn't Is that Robert Altman?

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Speaker 1: I think so? Yeah, I think it's Robert Altman. You

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Speaker 1: keep talking, I'm gonna look it up. No, I'm not yourself.

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Speaker 1: Never mind. It's great, So we're all back from it.

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Speaker 1: Is Robert Altman. Yeah, all right, let's let's it's time

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Speaker 1: to get back into this episode. Talk about John of

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Speaker 1: God some more. I just had to that hit my

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Speaker 1: world like a fucking carpet bomb, and I had to

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Speaker 1: I just had to talk about it so your world,

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Speaker 1: Like like a cruise missile at your wedding. Yeah, like

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Speaker 1: like one of Ray Theon's fine products hitting a wedding.

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Speaker 1: Which you know, if you've ever thought not enough weddings

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Speaker 1: have missiles hit them, then you're the kind of customer

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Speaker 1: Raytheon is looking for. All right, we really should start

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Speaker 1: the episode now. So no human being has ever embodied

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Speaker 1: the phrase the road to hell is paved with good

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Speaker 1: intentions better than Oprah Winfrey. Like many of you, she

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Speaker 1: was a regular background figure in my childhood. My mom

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Speaker 1: would have her on when she was working from home

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Speaker 1: while we did chores, etcetera. Like she was just on

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Speaker 1: in the background all the time. And compared to the

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Speaker 1: other background figures of my childhood guys like Rush Limbaugh

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Speaker 1: and Michael Savage, she was pretty benign. At least she

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Speaker 1: seemed that way. Um. I don't know if I would

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Speaker 1: describe her as a monster, but her career has been

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Speaker 1: a masterclass and how to enable monsters. When Free was

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Speaker 1: a longtime friend of Harvey Weinstein, she regularly hosted Tony Robbins,

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Speaker 1: another se ex pest and self help guru. She is

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Speaker 1: largely responsible for making Doctor Phil and Doctor oz into

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Speaker 1: household names, and both of those men have gone on

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Speaker 1: to do incalculable harm to society. And of course she

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Speaker 1: is the reason John of God at his clinic were

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Speaker 1: put in front of the faces of millions upon millions

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Speaker 1: of guluble, desperate Westerners. After that Oh Magazine article was

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Speaker 1: published in two thousand ten, she dedicated a special episode

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Speaker 1: to John of God, inviting the author of that article

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Speaker 1: and a doctor onto her show. They were both total converts,

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Speaker 1: but how they and Oprah presented John to their audience

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Speaker 1: is really interesting to me. And I want you to

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Speaker 1: click that first link and play it to that thirty

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Speaker 1: eight minutes Andrew, because you went't expecting to find what well,

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Speaker 1: I went to just gather evidence to see what's true. Susan.

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Speaker 1: When you were there, did he I heard that he

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Speaker 1: actually invite medical doctors from around the world to come

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Speaker 1: up and witness him do these things. Is that correct? Yes?

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Speaker 1: And they always are sort of very careful not to

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Speaker 1: ever themselves against the medical the mainstream medical profession. They

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Speaker 1: you know, they're very much like they're not He's never

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Speaker 1: gonna do a heart transplant up there. It's like he's

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Speaker 1: going to do whatever he can do with his ability

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Speaker 1: to heal, and then you might have to go to

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Speaker 1: your doctor for the rest. Yeah, okay, and that's that's good. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: What do you think of that, Andrew, what do you

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Speaker 1: think of that framing? Um? Incredible? Incredible. I mean, the

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Speaker 1: one thing watching the clip is that, um, um, what

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Speaker 1: is sorry? What is what is the journalists? The quote

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Speaker 1: journal was a strong word for Susan. The one thing

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Speaker 1: watching that is that Susan looks almost exactly as I

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Speaker 1: thought you would, Yes, exactly the type of white woman

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Speaker 1: that would promote this ship. Yes. Yeah, And whatever picture

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Speaker 1: you I guarantee you a hundred percent of you, whatever

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Speaker 1: picture you have in your head of Susan Casey is accurate. Um,

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Speaker 1: because there's only one wild It's awesome, isn't it? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Um yeah it's And then also like this this thing

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Speaker 1: where he's like he's not gonna do a heart transplant,

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Speaker 1: but it's like you might have to go to your

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Speaker 1: regular doctor for that is like yeah, just like key

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Speaker 1: like sweeping under the rug. It's like, well, of course

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Speaker 1: you will need real medical care. Also, what's really cool

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Speaker 1: about that is that it is very clearly and obviously

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Speaker 1: an answer of uh, Susan and this other doctor who

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Speaker 1: will talk about a minute whitewashing John of God. So

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Speaker 1: like they know that if they're going to be on

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Speaker 1: Oprah Show and talk to like a mainstream audience, they

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Speaker 1: have to put in a They can't just be all

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Speaker 1: like especially because if this is two thousen and we

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Speaker 1: we we aren't where we are now now you could

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Speaker 1: just say doctors are bullshit. This guy is the only

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Speaker 1: real healer in the world. You can get away with that.

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Speaker 1: Back then you had to be like, oh no, you

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Speaker 1: still regular doctors are still good, great for things. He's

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Speaker 1: just helping with other stuff and like that was necessary

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Speaker 1: to get people on board. Um. But John of God's

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Speaker 1: Cult produced propaganda two. And this is why I say

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Speaker 1: that Susan Casey and this doctor are like intentionally whitewashing him,

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Speaker 1: because for this episode of Oprah Show, they use clips

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Speaker 1: from a documentary that John of God's Cult produced. UM.

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Speaker 1: And in the actual documentary, UM, there is no time

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Speaker 1: wasted telling people that they need to consult their doctors.

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Speaker 1: So I'm gonna play next, Have you played next? Eclip

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Speaker 1: from that actual the documentary produced by the cult that

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Speaker 1: shows kind of how internally they talked about his healing powers,

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Speaker 1: and it's very different from how Oprah did physical healings

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Speaker 1: that cannot be explained away factors in He said to

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Speaker 1: me in reply to my question, can you help me

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Speaker 1: to become healthy again? And he replied, you are already healed.

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Speaker 1: Holy sh it. Yeah. Uh so yeah, you see like

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Speaker 1: and that there's no talk about like, oh yeah, you

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Speaker 1: gotta uh you gotta fucking um yeah. No, he just

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Speaker 1: heals your ship. Yeah. So the doctor guy that Oprah

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Speaker 1: has on there is is a fellow named Jeffrey Rehdiger,

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Speaker 1: and he's really interesting to me because he is a

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Speaker 1: very real medical professional and was actually or is actually

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Speaker 1: a member of the Harvard Medical School faculty. Uh. He

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Speaker 1: researches spontaneous healing, which is like when people go into

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Speaker 1: remission or whatever. And there's no clear explanation why which

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Speaker 1: is a thing that happens. People get better from things.

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Speaker 1: We don't understand why that that's the thing that happens. Um.

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Speaker 1: And he is clearly there to inject both credibility and

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Speaker 1: skepticism into the discussions about John of God, kind of

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Speaker 1: like Dr Oz was earlier. For example, Oprah at one

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Speaker 1: point plays a video of one of John of God's

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Speaker 1: brain surgeries where he's like shoving stuff up people's nose um,

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Speaker 1: and Dr Rheteger is really up front and clear about

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Speaker 1: the fact that this brain surgery through the no stuff

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Speaker 1: is sleight of hand, that he's not actually performing surgery,

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Speaker 1: that he's that there's there's a ton of space in

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Speaker 1: the naval cavity and nothing inexplicable is going on. So

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Speaker 1: he does make he doesn't state that to the audience,

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Speaker 1: but he does that while he buys into the fact

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Speaker 1: that scientifically inexplicable healing occurs at John of God's center.

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Speaker 1: So I'm gonna play another clip from that Oprah episode

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Speaker 1: so you can kind of see how this skeptic talks

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Speaker 1: about this healing. Dr Jeffrey Rehdiger travel to Brazil also

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Speaker 1: to see John of God's work firsthand. Explain if you

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Speaker 1: can the medical risks of surgery without anesthesia or proper sterilization.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't look like he's like sterilizing the knife for

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Speaker 1: the probe or well. Yeah, as a physician, I have

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Speaker 1: to say, you don't try these kinds of things at

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Speaker 1: home and or with your loved ones. Uh. And you

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Speaker 1: know this guy says a second grade education. Um yeah,

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Speaker 1: I and I do have to say that these are

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Speaker 1: things that I don't understand. So I can't fully endorse

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Speaker 1: things that are beyond my understanding. Um, but I've seen

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Speaker 1: them happen. I've generally without annesty, Shaw, you see enormous pain.

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Speaker 1: I take care of people every day in pain from surgery,

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Speaker 1: uh and other events. The risk of infection is typically

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Speaker 1: great and something that we have to take seriously. So

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Speaker 1: that's followed up with these people who have gone through

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Speaker 1: these procedures. Maybe infections came later. Well, I think every

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Speaker 1: situation that spiritual healing is different. So did you catch

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Speaker 1: what went on there? This is really interesting to me.

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Speaker 1: So Dr Reddiger notes that the psychic surgeries, which like

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Speaker 1: use real knives and actually cut people, He notes that

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Speaker 1: that's dangerous, like he tells people not to do it

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Speaker 1: at home, But he also says he's not aware of

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Speaker 1: anyone getting infections. And then when Oprah points out that

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Speaker 1: he could have they could have gotten infected later, he

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Speaker 1: doesn't respond to that. You'll notice he doesn't say that

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Speaker 1: that's possible even He just sort of says that like

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Speaker 1: a bunch of things getting that's really Yeah, that's amazing. Um,

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Speaker 1: but it's the kind of thing because it's been acknowledged,

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Speaker 1: even though he doesn't then go on to state that like, actually, yes,

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Speaker 1: we we have no data that these people to suggest

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Speaker 1: these people aren't getting infected. We're not performing any follow ups.

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Speaker 1: I didn't take any attempts to actually determine whether or

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Speaker 1: not people got infected. Letter he doesn't say that. He

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Speaker 1: gives a non response so that the show can move

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Speaker 1: on and the audience can move forward content that John

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Speaker 1: of God, that these are real, serious skeptical people, and

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Speaker 1: that that makes John of God even more real because

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Speaker 1: this this medical professional has betted him with the requisite

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Speaker 1: amount of skepticism even though none of that was actually done.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing, like this is a master class and how

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Speaker 1: to white and like it's laundering bullshit. Yeah yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: even like the way that like they can claim they've

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Speaker 1: addressed the infection risk by saying because they brought it up.

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Speaker 1: It's fucking revolting. That's crazy. Yeah, it's awesome. Um. I

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Speaker 1: want to play one more clip from this episode because

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Speaker 1: we just gotta believe and this is what medicine and

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Speaker 1: psychiatry need to examine, is I believe the powers of belief,

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Speaker 1: the powers of the mind are far more powerful than

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Speaker 1: we have even begun to explore. I believe that's an

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Speaker 1: unexplored wilderness in terms of research. So you said that

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Speaker 1: since you made that trip as the skeptic and then

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Speaker 1: you were there in the presence and then had the

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Speaker 1: whole bleeding experience yourself, that it turns your life upside down?

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Speaker 1: How how so well, if you can say, there's something

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Speaker 1: to the effect that I believe this in my head,

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Speaker 1: but I don't believe it in my heart. I don't

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Speaker 1: get it is too much. And then a little incision

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Speaker 1: manifests on this skin over the area of your heart.

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Speaker 1: That means none of this is what we think it is.

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Speaker 1: It's something I don't know what that means. And there's

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Speaker 1: I'm sure religions can layer on many different interpretation. Yourself

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Speaker 1: a religious person. Because of this, I am actually more

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Speaker 1: interested in the development and cultivation of a spiritual life.

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Speaker 1: All right, yep, So that's interesting. One of Reddiger's claims

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Speaker 1: is that like while he's watching John of God performed

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Speaker 1: these surgeries, he spontaneously started bleeding from a whole, which

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Speaker 1: is like kind of like a stigmata thing. He's introduced

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Speaker 1: as a skepticum who traveled to John of God's center

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Speaker 1: in order to take samples and medically vet whether or

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Speaker 1: not this man was a serious healer. And he says

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Speaker 1: later in that interview quote, some people I spoke with

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Speaker 1: were able to remember the events going around them completely,

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Speaker 1: and some people seem to inter a sort of altered

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Speaker 1: state during these surgeries. When I was assisting in one

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Speaker 1: of these surgeries, John of God cut this woman's corny is.

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Speaker 1: She didn't flinch, she didn't try to pull away from him.

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Speaker 1: I can't explain that I heard some people use the

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Speaker 1: term spiritual anesthesia. I have no way to understand that.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting that he says that, because like there's actually

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Speaker 1: a lot of reasons why someone wouldn't feel, uh, they're

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Speaker 1: eye getting scraped. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. It's like it's

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Speaker 1: like perfectly explicable and like lending essentially the name of

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Speaker 1: your institution and by claiming to be baffled to give

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Speaker 1: it like credence is like God truly pathetic. It's also

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Speaker 1: like even accepting his words at face value until the end,

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Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, yes, the brain can do a lot, Yes,

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Speaker 1: psychology is more powerful probably in terms of physiological stuff

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Speaker 1: than you know we give it credit for. And then

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Speaker 1: pivoting too, I want to have a spiritual life is

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Speaker 1: like just an abdication of curiosity. Yep, it's just like

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Speaker 1: what do you Yeah this, I mean, it's it is

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Speaker 1: remarkable that some of these people don't feel pain. Probably

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Speaker 1: it's documented in other media, you know, other types of

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Speaker 1: formats of this kind of ship and sure worth exploring.

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Speaker 1: But being like, yeah, I want to see what I

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Speaker 1: want to learned more about these spirits is like incredible.

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Speaker 1: He's he's such a piece of ship. And yeah, obviously,

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Speaker 1: like I've scraped my cornea before when I was out

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Speaker 1: hashing in the woods, and uh, it didn't hurt. It

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Speaker 1: hurt afterwards, like because just like it fucked up my ability,

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Speaker 1: like my eye was taking in too much lighter, so

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Speaker 1: like it it was like kind of blinded me. It

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Speaker 1: was very much debilitating afterwards. But the actual getting scraped

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Speaker 1: by a branch and the eye it didn't cause pain,

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Speaker 1: which is part of why it took me a while

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Speaker 1: to realize what had happened. Um, yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's like there's also a lot of data on how

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Speaker 1: um altered mind altering states like people have in these

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Speaker 1: religious moments can impact perception of pain. Worship is definitively

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Speaker 1: a mind altering state. John of God requires his patients

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Speaker 1: to go through an elaborate series of meditations before and

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Speaker 1: after treatment. UM and I actually found a scholarly study

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Speaker 1: of his his surgeries conducted by doctors from a Brazilian

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Speaker 1: medical school. They note the surgeries were always performed by

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Speaker 1: John of Godden, occurred in a large, non sterilized and

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Speaker 1: open room with dozens of spectators, most of whom were

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Speaker 1: other patients and their relatives or friends. During each of

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Speaker 1: these surgical sessions, approximately five patients usually remained standing will

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Speaker 1: side by side in front of one of the room's wall. Rarely,

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Speaker 1: patients were submitted to the surgeries while they were seated

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Speaker 1: in a chair. Visible surgeries were performed in a few

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Speaker 1: minutes in a very grandiose in theatrical way, invoking strong

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Speaker 1: emotional involvement and even perplexity among the audience. Incisions were

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Speaker 1: performed with either sterilized scalpels or kitchen knives, and surgeries

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Speaker 1: were performed in rapid succession. The cleanliness of the instruments,

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Speaker 1: contrasted to reports of other media mystic surgeries performed by

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Speaker 1: dirty or even rusty implements. So you notice the stories

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Speaker 1: about this guy that incredible sources state always say that

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Speaker 1: he's just using like random kitchen knives, sometimes even that

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Speaker 1: they're dirty. Um, when actual scientists studied, like they know

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Speaker 1: his knives are always sterilized, and he's not cutting open

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Speaker 1: people deeply and removing organs. He is scraping their skin

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Speaker 1: in their eyes. The fact that they don't get a

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Speaker 1: lot of them don't get infections isn't weird. Have you

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Speaker 1: ever gotten a scrape that didn't get infected? You've probably

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Speaker 1: gotten a lot because your body is reasonably good at

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Speaker 1: not dying from random scrapes. Um, otherwise there wouldn't be people. Uh, Like,

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Speaker 1: it's it's very frustrating. Another frustrating thing is that this

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Speaker 1: study goes on to note that like they don't know,

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Speaker 1: like they couldn't find any evidence of infections among John's patients,

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Speaker 1: But they also note that they didn't actually get to

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Speaker 1: follow up with any of these people further than a

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Speaker 1: day or two on because like, the a lot of them,

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Speaker 1: like we're traveling in from elsewhere, so like the paper

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Speaker 1: is a proper scientific paper, and it concludes that, like

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Speaker 1: we need to do more research and track these patients

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Speaker 1: for longer term to determine whether or not anyone's getting infected,

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Speaker 1: which is what you say if you're an actual scientist.

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Speaker 1: Dr Reddiger, on the other hand, just gets on OPRA

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Speaker 1: and announces that this is all inexplicable, like science can't

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Speaker 1: explain this. It's like, yes, it can. You just didn't try,

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Speaker 1: Like you didn't even try, and I hate I find

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Speaker 1: science doesn't work when you don't do it. That's a

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Speaker 1: remarkable conclusion. Yeah, thank you, doctor. I found a good

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Speaker 1: critical right up of Dr Reddiger's performance on the blog

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Speaker 1: Science Based Medicine. I'm gonna quote from that now. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: the camera angles used made it impossible for me to

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Speaker 1: judge whether John was doing what he claimed, and the

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Speaker 1: only close upshot that was presented, it was clear to

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Speaker 1: me that the knife never touched the woman's eye, and

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Speaker 1: when John actually appeared to be doing something, the camera

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Speaker 1: never focused on the woman's eye. How convenient, it was

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Speaker 1: almost as though OPRAH producers were making a conscious effort

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Speaker 1: not to show a camera angle that would allow viewers

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Speaker 1: to judge whether the procedure actually being done was what

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Speaker 1: John of God claimed. Personally, I'd have loved to see

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Speaker 1: an ophthamologist or even just a surgeon rather than a psychiatrist,

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Speaker 1: because Dr Rehdeger is a psychiatrist allowed to have a

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Speaker 1: close up view of John's activities. Rehdeger is also shown

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Speaker 1: in a video clip apparently bleeding from the chest, apparently

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Speaker 1: after having viewed John do his corny is scraping bit.

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Speaker 1: He expresses fear and is concerned that the bleeding doesn't

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Speaker 1: stop as soon as he thinks it should, pointing out

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Speaker 1: that he doesn't have a bleeding disorder. So again, Dr

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Speaker 1: Reddeger is a psychiatrist, which makes him a legitimate medical professional,

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Speaker 1: but does not make him particularly competent to rule on

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Speaker 1: whether or not someone's reaction to a light surgical cut

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Speaker 1: is inexplicable, because that is not what psychiatrist specialize it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but it's also just being like the arrogant so being

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Speaker 1: able to say, I can't explain it, so it is

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Speaker 1: therefore I won't explain it, won't find out how to

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Speaker 1: explain it, so it's therefore inexplicable. Yeah, it's super great, Um, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And it's also noted in that article that Dr Rehdiger

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Speaker 1: isn't just a psychiatrist. He's a psychiatrist who has built

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Speaker 1: an entire brand off of embracing spontaneous healing. At the

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Speaker 1: time this came out, he headed up the Initiative for

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Speaker 1: Psychological and Spiritual Development, and on his old website he

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Speaker 1: wrote this explaining what the institute did. Quote, we live

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Speaker 1: in a culture that has advanced enough that we can

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Speaker 1: send the person with a medical problem to the medical doctor,

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Speaker 1: a person with an emotional problem to the psychologist, a

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Speaker 1: person with a spiritual problem to the priest, minister or rabbi.

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Speaker 1: Yet the Initiative for Psychological and Spiritual Development is founded

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Speaker 1: upon the belief that beneath all and behind all the

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Speaker 1: masks and appearances that we present to the world, there

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Speaker 1: is something more, and whatever healing potential exists comes from

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Speaker 1: this place, which is right, beautiful, beautiful nonsense. So Dr

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Speaker 1: Reddeger's initiative appears to be defunct. Now I don't think

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Speaker 1: it exists anymore. I can't find evidence of that, but

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Speaker 1: I didn't look super hard, so maybe I'm wrong. He

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Speaker 1: does have a book out, however, called Cured with an

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Speaker 1: exclamation point, and it's about people going into spontaneous remission.

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Speaker 1: I don't know enough about Rehdecker to declare him an

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Speaker 1: absolute grifter, but I do know that he was once

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Speaker 1: a ghost on coast to coast AM, which is like

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Speaker 1: Alex Jones for people who are a little bit less

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Speaker 1: racist than Alex Jones. Um, so I'm gonna I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: say it's probably fair to call him a griffin. You

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Speaker 1: don't go on coast to coast f M if you're

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Speaker 1: like a a M, if you're like a credible person. Well,

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00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:45,720
Speaker 1: it's also like like the you know, not acknowledging that

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00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:54,200
Speaker 1: spontaneous remission is a severe outlier event and like, yeah,

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00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 1: it's possible, but like putting your treatment faith in that

389
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:04,679
Speaker 1: is insane. Yes, yeah, and yeah, but it's a great grift.

390
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 1: It's a thing. People want to read about it. People

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Speaker 1: love reading books about magical healing and ship Yeah. So yeah.

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Speaker 1: Dr Ddeger is part of the grand tradition in the

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Speaker 1: medical field of credential medical professionals who provide cover for

394
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 1: miracles slinging con men, and of course Dr Oz would

395
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 1: be another example of this type of person. Another example

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00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,680
Speaker 1: is provided in Susan Casey's OH Magazine article about John

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Speaker 1: of God and this is her again attempting to do

398
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 1: some real journalistic research to talk about how it's not

399
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 1: weird to believe that this guy could be caring cancer quote.

400
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:37,880
Speaker 1: The belief in the effectiveness of prayer is as old

401
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,640
Speaker 1: as civilization. The results are tough to pin down. Bernard Grad, PhD,

402
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 1: a Canadian biologist from McGill University, worked with a spiritual

403
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 1: healer named Oscar Estebani conducting controlled studies in the late

404
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties and sixties using mice that had been uniformly wounded.

405
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 1: Estebani would place his hands upon the wire covers of

406
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Speaker 1: certain cages, willing those animals to heal. The results were dramatic.

407
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 1: In one experiment, the wounds on s to Bonnie's treated

408
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 1: mice were very significantly smaller after two weeks than those

409
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Speaker 1: of mice that had been left to heal on their own.

410
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Speaker 1: The team also discovered that plant seeds exposed to energy

411
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Speaker 1: healing grew at a faster rate. There was a force here,

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Speaker 1: they agreed, and it appeared to be doing something beneficial.

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00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 1: What that force was, however, no one could say for sure. Now,

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00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 1: these studies happened. There are a real thing that happened.

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00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,919
Speaker 1: You can read them. Bernard Grad did carry out those studies,

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Speaker 1: and if you look them up, you'll find conclusions that

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00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,639
Speaker 1: are pretty similar to what Susan Casey writes in her

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00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 1: bad article. What you won't find is any clear follow

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00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,680
Speaker 1: up to the study. In fact, basically the only writing

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00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 1: about this research you will find comes from either woo

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00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: woo bullshit practitioners or other medical griffsman trying to convince

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00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: people that energy healing is real. This makes it difficult

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Speaker 1: to refute because there really aren't direct refutations of Dr

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Speaker 1: Grad's work. What we do have, however, is almost a

425
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: century of additional research into quote unquote energy healing um.

426
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 1: Because again this stuff was done in the fifties and sixties, Like,

427
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 1: it wasn't a big study, it was conducted a long

428
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:59,159
Speaker 1: time ago. Uh, there's you can't say that it was conducted, like,

429
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 1: we can't prove to a point of certainty that these

430
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: people were actually conducting it well or or abiding by

431
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 1: all the rules they said they were. And there's another

432
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,640
Speaker 1: seventy years of other studies into this that show very

433
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: different results. So again she picks out this one study

434
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: from seventy years ago that says what she wants it

435
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 1: to say. She ignores, for example, the fact that in

436
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: Psychiatrists with a Lancet evaluated multiple studies, several hundred of

437
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: them that showed links between religious faith, faith healing, and

438
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,439
Speaker 1: energy healing and health benefits. Here's how Science Magazine reported

439
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 1: on their findings. Quote. Typically, they say, these studies ignore

440
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,199
Speaker 1: other factors that may improve health, such as abstinence from

441
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 1: tobacco and alcohol, and even the scientifically sound practices they

442
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 1: contend were inconsistent and jon't justify bringing religion into medical practice.

443
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 1: Richard Sloan of Columbia University and his colleagues reviewed every

444
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: article containing religion and physical health they could find in Medline,

445
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 1: an online service that indexes medical studies. Many of them,

446
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 1: he says, focused on such groups as Roman Catholic priests

447
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 1: or Benedictine monks, which forbids certain risky behaviors. Others looked

448
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 1: at more general populations of church goers and found lower

449
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: disease rates, but failed to take into account that only

450
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: people who were in fairly good health can go to church.

451
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 1: When these confounding factors were taken into account, either by

452
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 1: the original researchers in a follow up study or by

453
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 1: Sloan's group, The alleged benefits usually disappeared. Overall, Sloan says,

454
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: the evidence is very unconventioning and weak, much weaker, for example,

455
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 1: than the link between marital status and health. So again

456
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 1: you can point out there's a couple of individual studies

457
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 1: that like I haven't been refuted, that suggests a benefit

458
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,439
Speaker 1: between energy healing and health, and then there's hundreds of

459
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: studies that show no connection at all. And if you

460
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: only pay attention to the studies that say what you want,

461
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: it sounds great. If you look at the mass body

462
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: of research, it doesn't look so good. But Susan Casey

463
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: doesn't do that. Um, yeah, so that's cool. Um. Following

464
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 1: that two thousand ten episode of The Oprah Show, Oprah

465
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: herself visited John of God in two thousand twelve. She

466
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: described the encounter as blissful uh, and in her wake,

467
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: thousands upon thousands of other seekers made the call to

468
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: travel down Brazil Way for some psychic healing. By two fourteen,

469
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: John's Humble center had transformed into a straight up commercial empire.

470
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 1: Those passion flower pills alone grew into a ten million

471
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: dollar a year business. Celebrities visited, including Paul Simon, the

472
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: Princess of Japan, and Bill Clinton. Maybe probably, we don't

473
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: exactly know. There's a bunch of celebrities who are rumored

474
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: to have gone, Um, I'm gonna guess probably that Bill

475
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 1: Clinton seems like the kind of guy who try this. Yeah,

476
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: but something especially like all the other ship it's like, yeah,

477
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: the funk knows what's happening there. Yeah, yeah, but something

478
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 1: else also cropped up over the years allegations of sexual

479
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 1: misconduct by John of God. Objective observers noted that he

480
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 1: seemed to have a strange, non medical fixation with women's breasts,

481
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 1: performing surgery aimed at treating heart conditions and other ailments

482
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 1: by groping them and cutting around their nipples. So that's good.

483
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: Oh god, it's always like the most obvious ship, and

484
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: yet there's still gonna be years of like of where

485
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: they're like, I don't know, he just you know, he

486
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 1: was just interested in heart surgery. Like yeah, it's it's

487
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 1: always so transparent. When the ship finally, like when the

488
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: mask starts to slip, I feel like, yep, yep, it is.

489
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: But you know what mask never slips, the mask of capitalism,

490
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: and that means it's time for us to take our

491
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 1: mask off and put some products and services on. Yeah.

492
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, we're back. Okay, so um yeah we left off.

493
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 1: You know, John of God has gotten this huge boost

494
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: from Oprah and her Grift community. People are flooding in

495
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: from all around the world. But also some stories start

496
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: to come out. Allegations all vague at this point, no

497
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: individual names attached, but that he's he's sexually harassing and

498
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,880
Speaker 1: assaulting people. The allegations were enough that in two thousand fourteen,

499
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 1: a real newspaper, the Sydney Morning Hair, sent a real journalist,

500
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: Tim Elliott, to look into the matter. Tim's article provided

501
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: the first comprehensive look at John of God's operation by

502
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: someone who wasn't clearly two steps away from joining his cult,

503
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 1: like Susan Casey. The Center provided him with a white

504
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: ex pat handler to introduce him to John of God's world.

505
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,640
Speaker 1: Since Tim was a man, his handler was a man,

506
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: Diego Coppola. Here's Tim's article quote. Coppola was born in Peru,

507
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 1: but it'spent most of his life in California, where he

508
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: worked as a computer engineer after visiting the CASA in

509
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: two thousand one just to check it out. He married

510
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: a Brazilian and moved to Abadiana. These days, he manages

511
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 1: the CASA's fifty strong staff, a multinational team of volunteers.

512
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: You take care of logistics, channeling the constant flow of visitors,

513
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: and most importantly, forming an impenetral buffer around Medium Joao,

514
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: sheltering him from the ceaseless demands of a ravening public.

515
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: Everybody wants a piece of Medium, Joel, says Coppola. Before

516
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: I arrived, Coppola had promised me an interview with Joel,

517
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: although he now lets me know that this is far

518
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: from guaranteed. He is not like you and me. Coppola

519
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: tells him. He lives in another realm. Timetables don't mean

520
00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: much to him. What matters to him is doing the work,

521
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: taking care of the healing. So that's good. Yeah, yeah,

522
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: I mean like that. The handler for this sort of

523
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: situation is always like, it's so fucking sinister. It's so

524
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 1: crazy to me that people get sucked into this ship.

525
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: It just seems like on the face, like get the

526
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: funk out of there. Yeah. Yeah, Now, the reality is

527
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 1: that John of God spent most of his time living

528
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 1: in luxury on her ranch compound nearby. He only worked

529
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: about half the week, and later revelations would suggests that

530
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: he spent much of his downtime sexually abusing women, although

531
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: he also spent a lot of his work hours sexually

532
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: abusing women too, so who knows. Tim Elliott spoke to

533
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: an Australian seeker, a woman named Sarah Layton from Melbourne.

534
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: She's very emblematic of the success cases for John of God,

535
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: and I'm going to quote from him again. This is

536
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: her fourth trip to the cost Us since two thousand eleven,

537
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: during which time she has sought treatment for her liver, kidney,

538
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,719
Speaker 1: and heart, as well as female problems. She also had

539
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: lots of psychic surgeries, which is when the entities operate

540
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: on patients remotely. You wake up after one of these

541
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: surgeries and you can actually feel the stitches in your

542
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 1: your stomach. She tells me, real stitches, no psychic stitches.

543
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: She says. What has helped her most though, is the

544
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: emotional healing. She's had a hard life after being sexually

545
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: abused as a child. She was tortured. Before coming here,

546
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: she had attempted suicide four times. She estimated she has

547
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: spent fifty dollars all up in air fair donations. I

548
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: always donate to the Costa because John of God doesn't

549
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: charge anything, and medications such as healing herbs, which are

550
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: sold at the costas pharmacy. I used my inheritance twenty

551
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: dollars from my grandmother to pay for a lot of it.

552
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: But it's worth it. My heart is healed, which western

553
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: medicine wasn't able to do, and my gynecological problems have stopped.

554
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: So there's a lot going on there. Um. Yeah, First off,

555
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 1: you see, like everyone claims he doesn't take money, and

556
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: then this woman's like, but I spent fifty dollars here,

557
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: which is like, I mean, I guess to that end,

558
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: that's not that different than any religion. But no, yeah,

559
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: or then actually getting medical treatment in the legal way

560
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: if you don't have health and sure, or if you do,

561
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: I have health insurance and a lot of cases yeah yeah, yeah,

562
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: but like you'll notice that like, and this is truth.

563
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: A lot of the most dedicated case studies who will

564
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: come out and talk about this guy's healing is their

565
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: actual medical complaints are really vague and there's there's nothing

566
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: in that that you can track pathologically. She like, she

567
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: vaguely says gynecological problems, but also says like it's really

568
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: my heart and like my emotional problems that he healed.

569
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: Um and Susan Casey, the O magazine author, was in

570
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: the same boat. She was grieving, not physically ill. And

571
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: I've read a lot of stories about women who received

572
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: healing from John of God, and an overwhelming number of

573
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 1: them came in with emotional pain. And these people do

574
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: seem to have gotten real relief at the center, but

575
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: there's nothing magic about what provided them with the relief.

576
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote now from a woman who wrote a

577
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: story about like her own treatment by John of God.

578
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: This is what she described it as. Quote. Meeting in

579
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: the medium was a solemn process. Hundreds of people in

580
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: white flock to the Costa every morning. Someone wheelchairs, other

581
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: frail from chemo, and an orderly line. We waited to

582
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: go before him so he could prescribe our cares. Mine

583
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: was as follows. Five trips to the local sacred waterfall,

584
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: four months without sex, alcohol or black pepper, four months

585
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: of blessed herbal capsules. A translator quickly scribbled these directions

586
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: on a small piece of paper. For three hours a day,

587
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: I sat in meditation in the current room, helping to

588
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: conduct energy for healings. It felt special, purposeful. I napped, hiked,

589
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: and stood under that freezing holy waterfall. I prayed in

590
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: front of the Castas Triangle, a big wooden wall hanging

591
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: whose three sides represented faith, love, and charity. And then

592
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: I went home and like, Yeah, if you're fucked up

593
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: and grieving and like in a lot of pain, and

594
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 1: you go to a distant location that's like set up

595
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: to be solemn and relaxing and chill, and you detach

596
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: from the internet and you stop getting wasted all the time,

597
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: and you spend a bunch of time hiking in nature

598
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 1: and hanging out at waterfalls, that will help with your

599
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: green Yeah, of course it went like and having caught

600
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: someone confidently say this is helping you will get better,

601
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: Like that's a lot of what people need in those moments,

602
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,719
Speaker 1: as like someone to to really confidently tell them like

603
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: this will pass and you will feel better. All of

604
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: that stuff helps. Um, there's nothing magical about it, it

605
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: just is. It's good to go. Like when you're really

606
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: fucked up, in the head. Uh, it's good to stop

607
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: getting wasted and to spend a lot of time hiking

608
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: like that. There's nothing controversial or inexplicable about that. Um. Yeah.

609
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 1: So in other words, a lot of the miraculous powers

610
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: attributed to John of God are really just examples of

611
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: the fact that life in his center is on balance

612
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: healthier than the lives a lot of people left behind

613
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: That Sarah, woman Tim Elliott interviewed, even told him she's

614
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 1: expected the same thing. She said, quote, you're in the

615
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: fifth dimension here, whereas in Australia it's the third dimension.

616
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: In Australia, people don't understand spirituality. It's either work or

617
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: going out and getting drunk. I find I have to

618
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 1: escape that. And like, yeah, if your life, if you

619
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: were if you were like depressed and getting wasted every night,

620
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: and like that makes your body feel worse, it's bad

621
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: for your health. And you go to a place and

622
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: guys like stop doing that for four months, hike, meditate.

623
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: Yeah that's gonna help. I mean honestly, just like I

624
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: could prescribe, just don't be in Australia. Come on, yeah,

625
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,399
Speaker 1: get out of Australia is a general rule. Get out

626
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: of Australia. We all know people get up to yeah.

627
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: But of course John of Gotten his adherents couldn't just

628
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: claim that the man had provided people with a relaxing

629
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 1: retreat because claiming that this is magical and it also

630
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,799
Speaker 1: contreat cancer and stuff, that's where the real money's at.

631
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: So when Tim did his interviews, his patients referred to

632
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: John of God as a spiritual X ray machine. And

633
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 1: in the very dumb biography John of God, Heather Cummings

634
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: claimed that John was able to see each of his

635
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 1: patients as a hologram, which is why all staff, patients

636
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 1: and visiting journalists were asked to wear white. He says

637
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,399
Speaker 1: it made them easier to read. It also coincidentally opened

638
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 1: up a huge market in town for white clothing, of

639
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 1: which John of God got a cut um awesome, smart

640
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, And and the uniform like starts to take

641
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: away your identity and makes you more easy to manipulate

642
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 1: and that's ship yep. As business expanded in the wake

643
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: of OPRAH show, John and his followers created new treatments.

644
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: They opened up a series of crystal beds. Patients paid

645
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: sixty dollars an hour for the right to lie round

646
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 1: a bunch of rocks. They also opened up a gift shop.

647
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: Tim Elliott writes that it sold quote books, CDs, DVDs,

648
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: tote bags, t shirts, coffee mugs, and crystals. All crystals

649
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: have been blessed by the Entity, reads a sign on

650
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 1: the wall. There are John of God Pendance postcards and

651
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: travel pillows, even glow in the dark John of God

652
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 1: wall stickers. I really like imagining like the fucking like

653
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 1: Entity sweatshop where the guy just has to like or

654
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 1: the spirit just has to leash like just a you know,

655
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 1: for forty gross of crystals or else they can't go home. Yeah. Yeah,

656
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 1: the entities are like, yeah, they're they're they're working long

657
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 1: hours to make sure all those fucking crystals are wholly enough. Yeah.

658
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: Both the gift shop and cafe also do a brisk

659
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: trade and water that has been blessed by the entity.

660
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: People at the Costa treat the blessed water like nitroglycerin.

661
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: Don't drink it all at once, Janna Sue Jones says

662
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,320
Speaker 1: one afternoon when she sees me swigging from a bottle,

663
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 1: you'll be up all night. Sarah Layton tells me she

664
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 1: regularly buys tin leader jugs of the stuff to take

665
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: home in her luggage. It's just water, yeah, I mean

666
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: a lot of religions have fancy water. Now, the heart

667
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 1: of the whole grift is the pharmacy. Though when I

668
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: first started reading about it, I assumed it just stalked

669
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 1: a variety of herbal remedies that he was giving people.

670
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: But it turns out that the reality was even dumber

671
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: than that and more brilliant at the same time. Here's

672
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: tim quote. I had assumed that the pharmacy would stock

673
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 1: a range of different herbs to treat a variety of

674
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 1: different conditions, but note there is only one herb for

675
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: sale here pass the floor, the flower of the passion

676
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 1: fruit plant. When I asked Coppola about this, he explains

677
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 1: that it's not what's in the capsules that counts, but

678
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 1: rather the spiritual prescription that John of God writes for

679
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: each patient. The intentionality of that prescription is transferred to

680
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,479
Speaker 1: the capsules at the time of purchase. He says, that's

681
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: fucking brilliant. That's a great grift right there. Yeah, I mean,

682
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 1: that's like the homeopathy grift, you know. It's that you

683
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 1: can put magic in whatever. Yeah, And if you have

684
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: a line on passion fruit flowers, which does sound good. Yeah,

685
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: and again, all of the people who see John actually

686
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: just being seen by him and showing up and being

687
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 1: in that line is free. But they all get prescriptions

688
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: for these herbs, and you know, some by fifty dollars,

689
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: some by ten dollars worth. But the average, Tim knows,

690
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 1: the average purchases about twenty dollars, which would account for

691
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: forty dollars a day and herb sales alone. Jesus, so

692
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: great grift, a fucking plus grift. John of God like

693
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: very smart. So. Abadianya is a small town. Um. It

694
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 1: is not located in a nice part of Brasil. Before

695
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 1: John of God, it's biggest industry was a series of

696
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: brick factories. By the mid auts, John was by far

697
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 1: the largest business in the area, and this gave him power.

698
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,240
Speaker 1: The way Tim describes it, John of God's financial leverage

699
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: turned Abadianya into his own personal fiefdom. Quote. The biggest

700
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: industry by far is medium jow. There are no less

701
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 1: than seventy two posadas or hotels here, all catering to

702
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 1: Cassa pilgrims, most of whom come on two week tours

703
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: and arranged for booking agents. These tours cost many thousands

704
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: of dollars and must be approved by Joo, or rather

705
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 1: the entity. There are rumors that he also demands a

706
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 1: percentage from the tour operators, but Coppola denies this medium.

707
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 1: Joal owns farms. In some minds, he doesn't need more money,

708
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: not even making forty grand a day for merb sales.

709
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: He doesn't. He also is definitely getting that kick back. Yeah,

710
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: my my friends in the pot industry got another wrong business.

711
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 1: Just convince people that any random plant cures everything and

712
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: starts selling that ship. Like that's the fucking money. You

713
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: don't even need real plans. They could just be putting

714
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 1: grass in those bills and people wouldn't notice yeah or nothing,

715
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 1: Yeah or nothing, just sawdust. It's brilliant. So it soon

716
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,280
Speaker 1: becomes apparent just how much the town has been molded

717
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: in the Joual the entities. Image photos of him are

718
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 1: everywhere on street polls. In the posadas and cafes, a

719
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 1: whole industry has sprung up around the sale of white

720
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 1: clothes for visitors who forget to bring their own. He

721
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: is the brand here. When visitor told me the locals

722
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:01,720
Speaker 1: are now worried about how long he's going to live.

723
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: The entity oversees everything here, from new businesses which must

724
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 1: be Entity approved, to new construction. One Australian COSA staff

725
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 1: member told me that before building a house here, she

726
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: ran the plans past the Entity. Now. Tim did eventually

727
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 1: get to conduct an interview with John of God, but

728
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 1: only after he made it through a gauntlet of fawning

729
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: former patients. The center made him interview all of John's regulars,

730
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 1: men and women who claim he healed them. The goal

731
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 1: of this was obviously to instill a sense of awe

732
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: in him, so that by the time he got to

733
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: talk to John of God, he was in a mentally

734
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 1: receptive place. But Tim is a good journalist and this

735
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 1: did not work on him. In fact, he says that

736
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,399
Speaker 1: by the end of the whole routine he suffered from

737
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 1: miracle fatigue. Quote one more person tells me about their

738
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: amazing recovery, I'll kill him like I'm a fan of

739
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 1: Tim very good. When they sat down to talk, Tim

740
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 1: became probably the first reporter to directly ask John of

741
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: God about the sexual abuse allegations against him. John's response,

742
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 1: I thought you came to talk about me, not other

743
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: p That's fucking awesome. I mean, I guess if you're

744
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: going to pass the buck, yeah, not Jesus Christ. Yeah.

745
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 1: At this point, John tried to break off the interview

746
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: to go nap, but Tim asked him about another allegation.

747
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: Local reporters had alleged that he diverted donations meant to

748
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 1: build a soup kitchen and used them to renovate his house.

749
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: John responded with a rant that he wasn't a thief.

750
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:27,839
Speaker 1: The person making the allegations was a thief, So like,

751
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 1: very incredible guy here. Then the interview ended and for

752
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 1: a while that was about all anyone had on the

753
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 1: allegations against John of God. The Montreal Gazette had a

754
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 1: big laugh in two thousand and fifteen when John of

755
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 1: God had an endoscopy which revealed a tumor and he

756
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 1: had to undergo major surgery and chemotherapy to have it removed.

757
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: When asked if this was hypocritical, John of God responded,

758
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: what barbera cuts his own hair and went right back

759
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: to fleecing thousands of people per year, which is just great, Like,

760
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 1: all cure your cancer, But if I get cancer, I'm

761
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:02,919
Speaker 1: going to get some fucking chemo. Yeah that's I mean, look,

762
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 1: he had an answer and the right answer ready to go.

763
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: I guess yeah, that is the right answer. You know

764
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: what will cure your cancer. We are f d A

765
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:19,399
Speaker 1: backed to say that all all cancers are cured by

766
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,760
Speaker 1: whatever product and or service comes up next. So again,

767
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,839
Speaker 1: the f d A completely backs and supports this. And

768
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: if they have a problem, they can come after me.

769
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 1: Come on, you fucking FDA cowards. Bring it on, Bring

770
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: it on anyway, here's healing. We're back, uh, And I

771
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 1: am just waiting for the f d A to to

772
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: to try and take me on. Let's do it, and

773
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: come on, they'll take they'll take this cancer from your

774
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 1: cold dead hands. Yeah yeah, fuck. I don't know. I

775
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:08,840
Speaker 1: don't know who knows what's happening anymore. In September of

776
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: two thous eighteen, a very brave Brazilian activist Sabrina Bittencourt

777
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 1: went public with allegations from dozens of women against John

778
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: of God. The blowback against her was immediate and severe.

779
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 1: John was well connected in the Brazilian government as well

780
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: as extremely popular. An avalanche of death threats forced Sabrina

781
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,280
Speaker 1: to flee her home country for Spain, one of John's

782
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 1: victims was hounded into suicide by her own family, who

783
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,720
Speaker 1: are all adherents of the medium and members of the cult.

784
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 1: The story did not disappear, though, because as the weeks

785
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 1: went by, dozens and then hundreds of new women came

786
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 1: forward with their own stories of sexual abuse and rape

787
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:43,959
Speaker 1: at the hands of John of God. By the time

788
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: the three hundred allegation hit, the chief lawman and Goyas

789
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,799
Speaker 1: was forced to issue a preventative incarceration request against John

790
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 1: of God. Initially, John expressed a desire to work with

791
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: law enforcement and comply with the investigation. From a local

792
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,359
Speaker 1: news story, quote, I am grateful to God for still

793
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 1: being here. I still a brother and God. I want

794
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 1: to comply with Brazilian law. I am in its hands.

795
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 1: Joel Didos is still alive, he told his followers when

796
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 1: he left. Only ten minutes later, he told reporters that

797
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 1: he was innocent of all accusations. The psychics appearance cause

798
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 1: a visible uproar in the center. Some followers greeted him

799
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 1: with applause, while others complained about the presence of reporters.

800
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:21,360
Speaker 1: Respect my father, one of the volunteers asked, now, I

801
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,479
Speaker 1: included that quote about that John of God coupemember saying

802
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: respect my father, Uh, which is really because I think

803
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: it's really interesting, and it's interesting because John's actual daughter

804
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: accused him of sexual assault. Um. In January of two

805
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 1: thousand nineteen, after three hundred other allegations go public, John

806
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 1: of God's own daughter goes to the Brazilian magazine JA

807
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: to announce, quote, under the pretense of mystical treatments, he

808
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 1: abused and raped me between the ages of ten and fourteen.

809
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 1: Oh God. She claims the abuse from John of God

810
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 1: only stopped after one of his employees impregnated her. In

811
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 1: response to this, John of God beat his own daughter

812
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,839
Speaker 1: so badly that she suffered a miscarriage, she told via

813
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 1: my father is a monster. True. Now, Eventually more than

814
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 1: six hundred women came forward to level accusations against John

815
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: of God, like it is hard to overstand that. I'm

816
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: sure it's thousands, Like it's six hundred women came forward

817
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 1: in a climate so dangerous, were like at least one

818
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: of his victims was hounded to suicide. I suspect he

819
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 1: is guilty of thousands of acts of sexual assault, but

820
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 1: we know six hundred women leveled accusations. Rather than report

821
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 1: to the police as he said he would, John of

822
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 1: God went on the run withdrawing nine million dollars in

823
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 1: cash in an attempt to flee the country, but he

824
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: was unsuccessful in this and eventually had to turn himself in.

825
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 1: Raids on his compound found millions of dollars in cash,

826
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 1: as well as a large number of illegal firearms. Police

827
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,839
Speaker 1: who interrogated him started to report bizarre incidents, including their

828
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 1: computer spontaneously typing the letters O O a bunch of times,

829
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: the printer printing spontaneously, and a mini fridge exploding. These

830
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 1: reports are almost certainly untrue. They come from tabloid sources,

831
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 1: but there is a lot of evidence that sympathetic Brazilian

832
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: police certainly wanted citizens to believe this was all going on.

833
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: You know, we started this episode talking about like the

834
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 1: police tend to be on these guys sides because they

835
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,479
Speaker 1: believe the bullshit. Yeah. Less than a month after making

836
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: initial allegations, Sabrina Bittencourt released a bizarre six minute long

837
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 1: video accusing John of Gott to having run a twenty

838
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: year long human trafficking operation. She alleged that the colt

839
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: Leader's spiritual hospital was nothing but a cover for a

840
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: baby smuggling empire that sold infants to parents in the US, Australia,

841
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 1: and Europe for up to fifty thou dollars a piece.

842
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 1: Bittencourt alleged that John had established a network of isolated

843
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 1: farms and minds, and that he would bribe poor girls

844
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 1: aged fourteen to eighteen to move there and spend the

845
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 1: next decade continuously pregnant. Once born, the babies were sold

846
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 1: on the black market. After ten years, the birth mothers

847
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 1: were executed to prevent any witnesses. Sabrina wrote quote or

848
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 1: stated quote, hundreds of girls were enslaved over the years,

849
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 1: lived on farms and goyas served as wombs to get

850
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: pregnant for their babies to be sold. These girls were

851
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 1: murdered after ten years of giving birth. We've got a

852
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 1: number of testimonies. We've received reports from the adopted there's

853
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,239
Speaker 1: of their children that were sold for between twenty and

854
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: fifty thousand in Europe, USA and Australia, as well as

855
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,240
Speaker 1: testimony from ex workers and local people who are tired

856
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 1: of being complicited with John of God's Gang. Now, those

857
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 1: are some wild ass allegations, and unfortunately, I don't know

858
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 1: if any of this really happened. Sabrina was absolutely right

859
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 1: about John of God's career of sexual abuse. Hundreds of

860
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: women came for including his own daughter, like and they're

861
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 1: they're like, there's so much testimony, it's very clear what happened.

862
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 1: But the baby smuggling stuff, there's not hard evidence of this.

863
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 1: An investigation is ongoing into it. Um and Sabrina Bittencourt

864
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: like she got hounded out of her home and delusied

865
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 1: in death threats and suffered a mental breakdown. She came

866
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 1: out with these allegations days before committing suicide. Um, she

867
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: was a sexual abuse survivor herself, clearly traumatized by that

868
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: as well as the ocean of death rates. And this

869
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that her allegations weren't accurate, because there's actually

870
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 1: a long history in Brazil that includes to the present

871
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 1: day of like religion, like particularly Christian cults that have

872
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 1: like farming communes, abducting people basically and forcing them into

873
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,720
Speaker 1: slavery to like grow plants and ship like stuff happens

874
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: in Brazil. It's a big country and there's a lot

875
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:13,799
Speaker 1: of areas that are beyond the rule of law. This

876
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 1: is not impossible, but it's really hard to know exactly

877
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 1: what's going on, and you won't find any credible publications

878
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:23,399
Speaker 1: that have gone into the matter in detail, because really

879
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:25,239
Speaker 1: all we have are the allegations and the fact that

880
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 1: they're being investigated, and unfortunately, it is unlikely we will

881
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 1: ever know the truth because if Bitten Courts allegations are accurate,

882
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 1: it is highly unlikely that the Boson Yarrow administration would

883
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: allow the truth to get out because JayR. Boson Yarrow

884
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 1: has connections to John of God and a lot of

885
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 1: members of his political party were backers of John of God.

886
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,320
Speaker 1: And if John of God was operating a massive, multimillion

887
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 1: dollar baby smuggling empire, he absolutely did it with the

888
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 1: consent and help of powerful men in Brazil. And the

889
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 1: truth is just not gonna get out. So this is

890
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 1: not a satisfying ending um in that case, because I

891
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 1: can't tell you what happened with his whole a be

892
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 1: smuggling business. Pretty clearly raped a whole lot of people

893
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:06,799
Speaker 1: and it was a monster um. But there's just a

894
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 1: lot that's unclear about this story that will be up

895
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 1: in the air for years hopefully good investigations will kind

896
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: of come to a more concrete conclusion about some of

897
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 1: this stuff in the future. Um. I will say, though,

898
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 1: while our story doesn't end in the most satisfying way possible,

899
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 1: it does end with something that kind of resembles justice.

900
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 1: In December two, nineteen, a judge and Goyas sentence John

901
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 1: of God to nineteen years and four months in prison

902
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 1: for the rapes of four different women. His lawyers are appealing,

903
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 1: but John is incarcerated today and at age seventy seven,

904
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: he is very likely to die in prison. So that's

905
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 1: something Yeah, some thing I guess resembling justice. Yeah, if

906
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 1: you like squint, Yeah, it's okay. So Robert, as someone

907
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 1: who spends a lot of time looking at men like this,

908
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: is there ever a case where it's like it just

909
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 1: feels like these like the patterns of this ship is

910
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,320
Speaker 1: always the same. And I guess it's maybe self selecting

911
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: because it's the ship we hear about is is, But

912
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 1: why did it always feels like it feels follows like

913
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 1: such a similar blueprint. It's like, you know, like every

914
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 1: cult feels the same. Yeah, I mean because they because

915
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 1: they all operate on the same principle, like every cult

916
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 1: feels the same in the way that every oil and

917
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 1: gas company works broadly the same way because the same

918
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: sort of tactics, the same sort of promises UM attract

919
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,239
Speaker 1: and work on the same sort of people, and the

920
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: same kinds of folks are able to successfully carry out

921
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,919
Speaker 1: these griphs because being able to do the work that

922
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 1: these kind of people do, like John of God isn't

923
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 1: all that different from um, a guy like out On Hubbard,

924
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 1: Like they all have more more more alike than different

925
00:49:56,719 --> 00:50:00,280
Speaker 1: or all that different from Sarah Paula White Kane, Donald

926
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 1: Trump's spiritual advisor. They're all they just pick different kind

927
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 1: of ways to do the same thing. Um, and some

928
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 1: of them are more successful than others, and they're all

929
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:14,280
Speaker 1: differently successful. But it is it's always the same grift

930
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:19,280
Speaker 1: and it just leaves a huge amount of human shrapnel

931
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:24,919
Speaker 1: in its wake, which sucks. Yeah, Jesus Christ, this is man,

932
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 1: Yeah man, this one's a rough story. Yeah yeah. And

933
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,759
Speaker 1: like I just I wish we knew more about the

934
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: baby farming stuff that just doesn't seem to be solid information.

935
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 1: And also, just like Sabrina Bittencourt, by the time she

936
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 1: came up with those allegations, was like pretty broken, like

937
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 1: like broken in the sense that like human, an ocean

938
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 1: of hate from other people had like shattered her psyche. Um, Yeah,

939
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: which is also tragic and um, you know what she

940
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: did was very brave and she brought down this guy,

941
00:50:55,840 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 1: but it cost her own life, which is really fucked up. Yeah,

942
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 1: it's sucking horrible. Yeah, it's not great. Yeah, another successful

943
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 1: episode behind the best. We really nailed it today, just

944
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 1: grim ship. How often does it end in anything resembling justice? Can? Yeah?

945
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:20,839
Speaker 1: Not not all that often. You know, most of them

946
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 1: don't wind up in prison. Yeah, I guess everyone dies.

947
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:28,760
Speaker 1: But still yeah, about fifteen percent of the time something

948
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 1: that like resembles justice happens to these guys. Yeah, about

949
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 1: of the time. I'll say, I feel like that's higher.

950
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 1: It's probably maybe. Maybe. Look, if you, if you the fan,

951
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 1: want to go through and run the numbers, please do Um,

952
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 1: I hate I hate numbers and don't trust them. Don't

953
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 1: do someone do run the stats, run the stats on

954
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: the bastards. Yeah, let us know, run the stats or

955
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 1: just listen to run the jewels. It's only one, only one,

956
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 1: and you can't do both. Yeah. No, absolutely, that's the key,

957
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 1: and you have anything you want to plug after that?

958
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 1: Really just uplifting comment. God, I guess. I mean, look,

959
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 1: this is probably the only podcast that I can comfortably

960
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:18,360
Speaker 1: say that, yo, is this racist. When we take some

961
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:22,760
Speaker 1: of the worst of you know, just situations and shipping

962
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:26,320
Speaker 1: the news people's like questions on racism, it's horrible. Often

963
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 1: not horrible, horrible, but I can definitively say we're less

964
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 1: depressing than this. So check it out. Yep. We you

965
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 1: can find us on mind the Bastards dot com, where

966
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:44,279
Speaker 1: we will have the sources for this article or this episode.

967
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter and I write okay,

968
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:48,799
Speaker 1: and I have a podcast called The Women's Ward. Check

969
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 1: it out, The Women's Worries, uplifting and not it's hopeful. Yeah,

970
00:52:53,960 --> 00:53:03,240
Speaker 1: I'm horrible in this bullshit. So yep, damn man, Yeah,

971
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:05,799
Speaker 1: thanks for having me. This is I mean, I can't

972
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 1: I can't say it was fun, but it was certainly something. Yep,

973
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 1: it was certainly something. So yep, we're done. I'm gonna stop. Yeah,