WEBVTT - White Lotus Composer Cristobal Tapia de Veer 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:28.236 Pushkin, never before as a TV show come along with 0:00:28.356 --> 0:00:31.476 a soundtrack so incredibly haunting that I couldn't shake it. 0:00:32.076 --> 0:00:33.996 That's what happened when I first heard the score for 0:00:34.116 --> 0:00:39.316 writer and director Mike White's HBO show White Lotus. Cristo 0:00:39.356 --> 0:00:42.396 Baal Tapia deVie is the composer and musician behind all 0:00:42.396 --> 0:00:45.156 the sounds and the score that ranged from percussive African 0:00:45.196 --> 0:00:48.956 and Latin instruments to gut role human chance. When I 0:00:48.956 --> 0:00:51.036 first heard the show's theme that You're hearing now, I 0:00:51.196 --> 0:00:53.436 was all in. It sounded like some sort of crazy, 0:00:53.436 --> 0:00:57.316 deranged version of Herbie Hancock's Watermelon Man. Crista Ball Tapia 0:00:57.396 --> 0:01:00.916 deVie is a Chilean composer based in Canada who studied 0:01:00.956 --> 0:01:05.316 classical music at the Music Conservatory in Quebec. After dabbling 0:01:05.316 --> 0:01:08.556 an electronic music production and playing drums in various bands, 0:01:09.196 --> 0:01:11.796 Vir's first big break as a composer came from his 0:01:11.876 --> 0:01:15.956 score for the British thriller Utopia. On today's episode, I 0:01:16.036 --> 0:01:17.676 talked to the vier about how he came up with 0:01:17.676 --> 0:01:20.836 White Lotus's striking sounds game. He plays the stems from 0:01:20.876 --> 0:01:23.276 the score and talks about how he initially set out 0:01:23.316 --> 0:01:27.236 to create a Hawaiian hitchcock sound. De Vier also explains 0:01:27.236 --> 0:01:29.916 how he created the signature tribal sounding vocals from the 0:01:29.956 --> 0:01:38.756 show after being summoned to California by Kanye West. This 0:01:38.876 --> 0:01:41.756 is broken record liner notes for the digital Age. I'm 0:01:41.796 --> 0:01:49.636 justin Richmond. Here's my interview with Krista Bull Tapia de Vie. 0:01:50.716 --> 0:01:52.796 How did you get approached even for the show to 0:01:52.836 --> 0:01:56.836 begin with? They called me in January and they send 0:01:56.876 --> 0:02:00.156 that script and I love the script. I thought it 0:02:00.236 --> 0:02:03.676 was one of the best script I've read in a 0:02:03.676 --> 0:02:06.996 long time. So I took the meeting with Mike and 0:02:07.436 --> 0:02:11.836 I don't know, he was great, Like he's a pretty 0:02:11.916 --> 0:02:15.556 easy going guy, at least to me. We talk a 0:02:15.556 --> 0:02:18.916 little bit. We made some jokes about, you know, doing 0:02:18.956 --> 0:02:22.876 a Hawaiian Hitchcock and this and that. He didn't want, 0:02:22.996 --> 0:02:26.796 you know, comedic music, like a typical comedy show music 0:02:26.916 --> 0:02:30.196 or anything like that. And then I went back to 0:02:30.236 --> 0:02:33.276 the studio and for about three weeks I was just 0:02:33.436 --> 0:02:36.596 recording not stop but Hawaiian hitcock. But that was your phrase, 0:02:36.716 --> 0:02:39.276 that was your way of thinking about it. Yeah, yeah, 0:02:39.276 --> 0:02:41.716 I told him that. But it's not because of the 0:02:41.916 --> 0:02:46.796 style or trying to emulate Bernard Herman or you know, 0:02:47.396 --> 0:02:50.716 anything like that. It's just that he wanted to feel 0:02:50.836 --> 0:02:57.956 that something might be happening, something, something's bubbling underneath what's 0:02:57.996 --> 0:03:01.756 happening there, and it feels like somebody's gonna die, somebody 0:03:02.076 --> 0:03:07.716 is gonna be sacrificed, whatever, anything like that. So I 0:03:07.756 --> 0:03:13.396 guess I supposed to people's attention to other things that 0:03:13.556 --> 0:03:18.156 what's obvious. What's interesting for me lately is that, like 0:03:18.196 --> 0:03:21.156 I've been doing lots of interviews more than usual for 0:03:21.236 --> 0:03:25.516 this show for the music because people, like you said, 0:03:25.596 --> 0:03:29.436 people are really I don't know, something happened with the music. 0:03:30.316 --> 0:03:34.436 Something is touching people about this. And the thing is, 0:03:34.716 --> 0:03:37.436 I'm really more a musician. I'm going to say that, 0:03:38.756 --> 0:03:42.276 let's say, a composer, because in the sense that you know, 0:03:42.316 --> 0:03:44.316 I had this little talk with Mike and then I 0:03:44.596 --> 0:03:47.596 go to a studio and my brain is processing stuff, 0:03:47.876 --> 0:03:50.076 but I'm not thinking about any of it. I don't 0:03:50.116 --> 0:03:54.156 have graphics and designs and calculations about what the music 0:03:54.316 --> 0:03:57.836 is exactly doing to every character and every moment. And 0:03:57.876 --> 0:03:59.716 then at the end, you know that this is going 0:03:59.756 --> 0:04:02.596 to happen and people are gonna feel like this, like 0:04:02.676 --> 0:04:07.316 it's not a master plan whatsoever. It's really really like 0:04:07.396 --> 0:04:10.876 super super spontaneous and very fast. And then it's done. 0:04:11.196 --> 0:04:14.756 And afterwards, when people started, you know, asking me about this, 0:04:15.236 --> 0:04:19.076 I realized I didn't know what you say. So there 0:04:19.196 --> 0:04:24.316 wasn't like a thought about doing things a certain way. There's, 0:04:24.996 --> 0:04:29.476 for example, the voices. I don't know, like the lead voices. 0:04:30.476 --> 0:04:33.556 I wanted the lead vocals to feel like just a 0:04:33.676 --> 0:04:37.196 human singing. But there is some processing, but it's not 0:04:37.676 --> 0:04:40.596 a processing that you feel like. It's a digital processing 0:04:40.676 --> 0:04:44.436 like auto tune or whatever. It's gonna it's gonna make 0:04:44.476 --> 0:04:47.316 you feel like you know this sound. You know this 0:04:47.516 --> 0:04:50.716 from pop music. You have all these auto tune notes 0:04:50.796 --> 0:04:53.796 that are all very straight and perfect and stuff. So 0:04:53.876 --> 0:04:56.236 we are used to that digital sound now, so I 0:04:56.236 --> 0:04:59.156 didn't want to go with digital effects. For example, I 0:04:59.236 --> 0:05:02.676 was changing the pitch or the voice by changing the speed, 0:05:02.876 --> 0:05:05.516 which is the oldest trick in the book. Like you 0:05:05.596 --> 0:05:08.236 have tape and just played the taipdown and you have 0:05:08.276 --> 0:05:11.756 a lower note. That's the basic idea. I think it's 0:05:11.836 --> 0:05:15.596 less detrimental to a natural voice, at least for me 0:05:15.636 --> 0:05:18.516 for what I needed to do. I mean so you 0:05:18.636 --> 0:05:22.636 have these singing voices that are doing stuff that if 0:05:22.676 --> 0:05:25.436 you try to sing it, you're not gonna be able 0:05:25.476 --> 0:05:29.996 to because there's something weird happening, Like there's something not 0:05:30.316 --> 0:05:32.956 human about it. Because I change the notes in a 0:05:32.996 --> 0:05:36.716 way that a person couldn't do. So you feel the 0:05:36.876 --> 0:05:40.076 raw quality. There's jumps, there's jumps in the yeah, the 0:05:40.236 --> 0:05:44.196 dramatic jumps. Yeah. So you have this quality that it's 0:05:44.236 --> 0:05:46.916 a real voice. It's not a you know, like a 0:05:47.036 --> 0:05:50.036 robot sample or something. But there's something that you can 0:05:50.676 --> 0:05:53.676 you can't point your finger on, but you feel there's 0:05:53.716 --> 0:05:58.156 there's something weird happening. And maybe that's upsetting too in 0:05:58.196 --> 0:06:01.996 a way, because I'm wondering if people feel about that 0:06:02.076 --> 0:06:04.196 the way they feel. You know, when you watch a 0:06:04.356 --> 0:06:07.756 horror movie and you have a character that's a human, 0:06:08.236 --> 0:06:10.996 but then you realize there's something weird about that human, 0:06:11.276 --> 0:06:15.316 that it's not quite a human. There's something odd, And 0:06:15.636 --> 0:06:19.316 this is actually more scary than monsters. I think in general. 0:06:20.396 --> 0:06:23.436 It's when you when you believe there's something like you 0:06:23.556 --> 0:06:25.796 and it's not like you at all. It's something that's 0:06:25.836 --> 0:06:29.036 siding there. There might be some danger or whatever. Yeah, 0:06:29.356 --> 0:06:31.796 how did you decide on the instrumentation. Like so when 0:06:31.796 --> 0:06:33.276 you leave that meeting with Mike and you kind of 0:06:33.316 --> 0:06:36.476 leave with Hawaiian Hitchcock sort of mind, did you immediately 0:06:36.516 --> 0:06:38.956 know what instruments you wanted to maybe use or did 0:06:38.956 --> 0:06:41.156 you have to kind of lay out some and try 0:06:41.236 --> 0:06:43.636 and kind of a process of elimination on the instrument 0:06:44.276 --> 0:06:47.556 It was more by addition, I would say, in the 0:06:47.636 --> 0:06:51.396 sense that I just started recording some shakers for a while, 0:06:51.636 --> 0:06:54.756 and then after when I had those shakers, then I 0:06:54.796 --> 0:06:58.036 can play something else. So I'm jamming with myself, just 0:06:58.116 --> 0:07:00.836 gonna play some other drums, and then when I have 0:07:00.916 --> 0:07:04.516 those drums, I'm gonna again start over, and I'm listening 0:07:04.556 --> 0:07:09.916 to everything I recorded previously, so it's basically just jams. 0:07:10.516 --> 0:07:14.556 And I believe everything I recorded in the end I 0:07:14.596 --> 0:07:19.556 did use because once I had all these percussion beds 0:07:19.596 --> 0:07:23.876 and whatnot, I could decide whether I might need a 0:07:23.916 --> 0:07:27.596 little bit of pianos later on or just a little 0:07:28.356 --> 0:07:32.116 whatever other instruments. Maybe I don't know. Maybe it's because 0:07:32.236 --> 0:07:35.316 we didn't have much time. It was very it was 0:07:35.476 --> 0:07:39.636 very fast, so there was not much thinking and I 0:07:39.676 --> 0:07:42.716 wasn't in a mode where I'm gonna you know, I'm 0:07:42.756 --> 0:07:45.996 gonna try something for a while and maybe it doesn't work, 0:07:47.156 --> 0:07:49.636 so I'll try something else. In this case, it was 0:07:49.996 --> 0:07:52.876 it has to work. Like I'm recording all this stuff 0:07:53.476 --> 0:07:56.796 and in my mind this is working, like all the time, 0:07:57.196 --> 0:08:01.396 whatever I'm doing, it's just working, and I'm moving forward. 0:08:01.836 --> 0:08:04.956 That's not how you typically work, I imagine, right, it depends. 0:08:05.076 --> 0:08:07.956 I mean, if you have lots of time, courses, lots 0:08:07.996 --> 0:08:12.276 of procrastinations, which is not good either. So I suppose 0:08:13.676 --> 0:08:17.436 in general, I mean, any composer in general would complain 0:08:18.076 --> 0:08:20.036 not having the time to do what they want to do, 0:08:20.476 --> 0:08:24.436 being too rush or something. But I think there's something 0:08:24.476 --> 0:08:28.116 good about it for me in any ways, this feels 0:08:28.156 --> 0:08:32.436 a lot more spontaneous. I think that that it could 0:08:32.476 --> 0:08:35.796 be if I spent a year in the studio with like, 0:08:35.916 --> 0:08:39.236 you know, do the usual thing you call the best 0:08:39.316 --> 0:08:42.556 musicians in town and whatever, and it's just everything takes 0:08:42.596 --> 0:08:49.076 forever and you're doing this pristine recordings and stuff there was. 0:08:49.436 --> 0:08:55.436 This is very homemade. It feels very right. It feels uncorrected, unproduced. 0:08:55.876 --> 0:08:59.036 Were you happy with it when you turn it in? Oh? Yeah, yeah, 0:08:59.116 --> 0:09:01.996 I was really happy. I was happy that they that 0:09:02.196 --> 0:09:06.476 might liked it first, because I mean there's a there's 0:09:06.516 --> 0:09:10.956 an adjustment period where the first time people get tracks 0:09:10.956 --> 0:09:14.876 for their shows, it's a bit scary. You don't know 0:09:14.916 --> 0:09:18.276 how they're going to react, and they need time to digest, 0:09:19.676 --> 0:09:24.836 which is normal, particularly if he's you're sending non standard music. 0:09:25.476 --> 0:09:28.636 But in this case, it went really well. And and 0:09:28.716 --> 0:09:32.036 there's only Mic I mean there's only one person. I mean, 0:09:32.116 --> 0:09:36.196 he's the creator of this thing and he's doing everything. 0:09:36.236 --> 0:09:41.316 So I mean there are other executives and and whatnot, 0:09:41.476 --> 0:09:45.436 but what I mean is like he was the main focus, 0:09:45.636 --> 0:09:49.476 I mean what he wanted. So it's it's faster and 0:09:49.636 --> 0:09:52.956 much easier. And I mean unless you have a problem 0:09:52.996 --> 0:09:56.916 with that one person then then then then that's it. 0:09:57.036 --> 0:10:01.076 But uh yeah, it's much easier not having that, you know, 0:10:01.196 --> 0:10:05.076 twenty five cooks in the kitchen. We'll be right back 0:10:05.076 --> 0:10:07.756 with Crystal Ball t happier to hear. After a quick break, 0:10:11.756 --> 0:10:14.356 we're back with more of my conversation with Crystal Ball. 0:10:14.396 --> 0:10:18.396 Tapia Devier. So, when you sat down to create the 0:10:18.556 --> 0:10:21.916 sound and the music for the show, what's the first 0:10:21.956 --> 0:10:25.556 thing you recorded that actually made it to the final mix. 0:10:26.356 --> 0:10:28.876 It's probably the second piece of music on the show 0:10:29.396 --> 0:10:33.436 when the show starts, like this old school music, something jazzy, 0:10:33.516 --> 0:10:36.316 and then right after that we see a big shot 0:10:36.356 --> 0:10:39.796 of the of the hotel and that is like a 0:10:39.916 --> 0:10:44.156 very loud track with the same voices that you find 0:10:44.236 --> 0:10:48.916 in the theme, but is more of a wild tribal thing. 0:10:49.796 --> 0:10:52.476 You wanted to show you what the voices are. Please, 0:10:53.156 --> 0:11:05.076 So okay, So that's that's the lead from the theme. 0:11:05.916 --> 0:11:17.116 And then so this in particular that beat there, So 0:11:17.276 --> 0:11:20.236 that's that's the first voices I tried, and I put 0:11:20.236 --> 0:11:23.716 it on that track and it worked and they liked it. 0:11:24.116 --> 0:11:25.756 What was the thought that led it? Was it like, 0:11:25.796 --> 0:11:28.996 I want to play with odd vocals, which is strange voices. 0:11:29.596 --> 0:11:35.356 There is this tribal aspect, this war cry aspect, all 0:11:35.396 --> 0:11:39.996 of these things that fit well with what we wanted 0:11:40.036 --> 0:11:42.716 to convey with this show. So it could be associated 0:11:42.756 --> 0:11:45.356 with many things. You know, it could be natives that 0:11:45.676 --> 0:11:48.836 have been abused forever, but you know, the white privilege 0:11:49.436 --> 0:11:52.276 and everything, so could be that there's some of that. 0:11:52.476 --> 0:11:56.036 It could be some kind of ritual, ritualistic kind of singing. 0:11:56.316 --> 0:11:59.836 There is that aspect. There is the pop aspect that 0:12:00.036 --> 0:12:04.316 is purely esthetic that to me, when when I found 0:12:04.356 --> 0:12:07.396 this way of playing those voices, to me, it felt 0:12:07.476 --> 0:12:10.916 like that's it, Like that's a hit. I mean, I 0:12:10.916 --> 0:12:12.716 don't know, I don't know I hit like a radio 0:12:12.796 --> 0:12:14.796 hit or something like that. But it's a hit in 0:12:14.836 --> 0:12:19.276 the sense that the way he hits you, it hits people. 0:12:19.956 --> 0:12:23.556 I can tell that this doesn't effect this something like alien. 0:12:23.876 --> 0:12:26.756 But at the same time, people are really curious and 0:12:26.796 --> 0:12:30.116 it's like, wow, what is that voice and stuff? So 0:12:30.116 --> 0:12:32.556 so it just felt right away like I had found 0:12:32.596 --> 0:12:36.556 some gold there. He definitely did. Where did the voice 0:12:36.596 --> 0:12:41.756 sounds come from? So there's this weird story where I 0:12:42.676 --> 0:12:46.956 met Kenye West at some point. I didn't really meet him. 0:12:46.956 --> 0:12:50.636 I mean he called me and he bought me a 0:12:50.636 --> 0:12:53.596 plane ticket, and this was like, I have no idea 0:12:53.676 --> 0:12:57.076 what he wants, Like it's kennye A West. So this 0:12:57.276 --> 0:13:01.276 is a couple of years ago, and it's like, okay, well, sure, 0:13:01.516 --> 0:13:03.436 I thought it was a joke. I mean until I 0:13:03.476 --> 0:13:06.916 got to it, I thought somebody's playing a trick. When 0:13:06.916 --> 0:13:08.556 I talked to him on the phone, I said, Okay, 0:13:08.756 --> 0:13:11.756 this guy sounds like Harrie West, but you never know. 0:13:11.796 --> 0:13:14.836 I mean, it says so weird. And it's not like 0:13:14.876 --> 0:13:18.596 I'm producing whatever, you know, the new singer or something. 0:13:19.036 --> 0:13:21.956 It's just I'm doing these weird projects and stuff. So 0:13:22.516 --> 0:13:25.076 but I mean, he's he's looking for weird stuff too, 0:13:25.116 --> 0:13:28.156 so I guess. But anyhow, at some point I got 0:13:28.156 --> 0:13:31.316 to a lib and I went to his place where 0:13:31.356 --> 0:13:35.876 he works and everything in Calabasas and stuff. And then 0:13:36.836 --> 0:13:39.236 I was trying to understand what he wanted. But because 0:13:39.276 --> 0:13:41.716 this guy, he's always, you know, talking about a million 0:13:41.796 --> 0:13:44.116 things at the same time. I mean, he was showing 0:13:44.156 --> 0:13:48.316 me this new Nike shoe and speaking about music and 0:13:48.436 --> 0:13:52.076 how this Nike shoe relates to music, and it was 0:13:52.116 --> 0:13:55.116 like a new prototype. And then there's some kids that 0:13:55.156 --> 0:13:58.956 come from another room with some other prototype. And then 0:13:58.996 --> 0:14:01.436 we walked to another room and we start looking at 0:14:01.476 --> 0:14:04.316 all his clothes, the new stuff that he's coming with. 0:14:04.956 --> 0:14:06.956 And still, you know, all this time, I have no 0:14:06.996 --> 0:14:10.116 idea what's happening. I don't know why I'm there, why 0:14:10.236 --> 0:14:13.156 he showed me all this stuff. But anyhow, I did 0:14:13.236 --> 0:14:16.876 have my laptop and I started to work on some stuff. 0:14:17.036 --> 0:14:20.556 And my minding is since it's Kennyer West, I was 0:14:20.596 --> 0:14:23.836 at the hotel and I was trying to find something 0:14:23.876 --> 0:14:27.356 that is really striking, because if he takes me there, 0:14:27.676 --> 0:14:29.956 I mean, I'm not just gonna do some R and 0:14:29.996 --> 0:14:32.436 B beat or whatever. You know. I had to come 0:14:32.476 --> 0:14:35.636 up with something. And this is what happened, and not 0:14:35.636 --> 0:14:39.316 not this tune in particular, but I had those voices 0:14:39.516 --> 0:14:42.316 and I tried to find a way to play melodies 0:14:42.396 --> 0:14:46.356 that is a really striking thing. And this happened by accident, 0:14:46.916 --> 0:14:48.876 and I was like at that point I knew that 0:14:48.956 --> 0:14:52.676 this was like gold and I was Okay, this, I'm 0:14:52.676 --> 0:14:55.316 gonna show it to Kenny. So anyhow, I was there 0:14:55.356 --> 0:14:57.436 for like a week and I had to leave, and 0:14:57.556 --> 0:15:02.476 there worst problems and Kenny started firing people and his 0:15:02.636 --> 0:15:04.876 lawyers and everything was too long and I had to 0:15:04.916 --> 0:15:08.316 leave or whatever. It was a mess. Just to say 0:15:08.356 --> 0:15:12.276 this as like I'm gonna say, it's maybe a month 0:15:12.476 --> 0:15:15.796 before he came out of the closet as a Trump supporter, 0:15:16.596 --> 0:15:19.276 So I didn't know about that. I would probably have 0:15:19.796 --> 0:15:23.556 gone there if I knew, but so it was, there 0:15:23.676 --> 0:15:27.276 was lots of changing happening in his life and everything. 0:15:28.036 --> 0:15:31.516 So I just I just left at some point and 0:15:31.796 --> 0:15:34.276 I was like, Okay, he'll he'll come me back whenever 0:15:34.356 --> 0:15:37.276 he needs something. I don't know. So I had those 0:15:37.356 --> 0:15:43.836 voices the system, meaning you know, there's a girl doing stuff, 0:15:43.916 --> 0:15:46.796 and then I was playing with it with some person stuff, 0:15:47.156 --> 0:15:49.916 so I could do any harmonizing or whatever. At that point, 0:15:49.916 --> 0:15:52.716 it doesn't really matter what exactly the melody is. It's 0:15:52.756 --> 0:15:56.076 just that that system. And then yeah, so this project 0:15:56.076 --> 0:15:58.956 came out and I was, man, those tribal voices, that's 0:15:59.036 --> 0:16:02.116 exactly what we need for this. So I just went 0:16:02.156 --> 0:16:04.956 back to my system there and started finding the right 0:16:05.036 --> 0:16:08.116 melody and stuff, and that's it. It became that. So 0:16:08.356 --> 0:16:11.236 that that part Peular Harmony, the last one I show 0:16:11.276 --> 0:16:13.996 you just now, that's the one I did for Kanye, 0:16:14.356 --> 0:16:16.916 which he never heard. He never heard it. I can 0:16:16.956 --> 0:16:20.316 never heard it. So because we did, we never got 0:16:20.596 --> 0:16:23.276 to somewhere with that. So I don't know what was 0:16:23.356 --> 0:16:28.196 happening whether so lately I didn't like thinking about that, 0:16:28.276 --> 0:16:30.796 and it's like, I hope this guy listened to the 0:16:30.796 --> 0:16:34.076 White Lotos and he's like everybody else, Okay, who's that guy. 0:16:35.756 --> 0:16:38.476 It's the same guy who made it for you a 0:16:38.516 --> 0:16:43.876 couple of years ago. It's crazy to think that could 0:16:43.916 --> 0:16:45.436 have been a Kanye n I would have been perfect 0:16:45.476 --> 0:16:48.076 for Kanye. Yeah. Can you play that sound again? Can 0:16:48.076 --> 0:16:50.716 you play thost voices one more time? Yeah? So I'm 0:16:50.756 --> 0:17:48.996 playing for from the beginning. Was this part part of 0:17:49.036 --> 0:17:59.716 his Well, no, just this one. I never heard the 0:17:59.796 --> 0:18:03.796 laughing before. Yeah, because there's so much happening. I guess 0:18:03.916 --> 0:18:06.396 you know it's in there, in the chaos in there 0:18:07.636 --> 0:18:10.716 super cool. So once you had that, what was the thought? 0:18:10.756 --> 0:18:13.476 What was the move? Yeah? The main thing with this 0:18:13.596 --> 0:18:17.476 show is the percussions. Really, I recorded maybe for two 0:18:17.516 --> 0:18:22.596 weeks stucking lots of every percussion that I have. So, 0:18:22.716 --> 0:18:26.996 for example, I think I started with the tombs. So 0:18:27.116 --> 0:18:30.516 it's like I'm gonna say, there's a maybe a kick drum, 0:18:30.636 --> 0:18:35.916 a floor tom, and then some indigenous percussions like shaman drums, 0:18:36.316 --> 0:18:40.396 which are all with animal skins and stuff like that. 0:18:40.676 --> 0:18:56.076 And I started doing this kind of thing. So I 0:18:56.156 --> 0:18:59.436 did a bed of this, a lots of different rhythms 0:18:59.476 --> 0:19:02.676 with only these low drums that are softer and kind 0:19:02.716 --> 0:19:06.156 of deeper, and then I started adding all kinds of 0:19:06.156 --> 0:19:31.356 things like this, and then later building so uh, stuff 0:19:31.396 --> 0:19:35.436 like that. Then I started playing with bottles and flutes 0:19:35.796 --> 0:19:38.036 and were you playing them actually or was it a 0:19:38.076 --> 0:19:40.676 sample of someone playing them? Oh? Yeah, yeah, yeah, this 0:19:40.796 --> 0:19:44.636 is it's all like all that stuff. So the bottles 0:19:44.996 --> 0:19:56.316 is southing like this. So okay, this is when I 0:19:56.396 --> 0:20:02.556 discovered how the watermelon man works, because I never thought 0:20:02.676 --> 0:20:07.396 of water Maryland man until I said, Okay, I'm gonna 0:20:07.436 --> 0:20:10.716 try this bottle thing. So I do this who and 0:20:10.796 --> 0:20:13.076 then uh at some point I tried to do this 0:20:13.316 --> 0:20:15.916 I repeatedly, and I realized I have to breathe a lot, 0:20:16.116 --> 0:20:20.396 so I do. And when I hear my voice going there, 0:20:20.556 --> 0:20:26.516 it's like, oh, that's why it sounds like that. That thing. 0:20:26.596 --> 0:20:29.796 It's just it's just your throat, you know, it makes 0:20:29.876 --> 0:20:32.676 us sound and then you have this rhythm and it's 0:20:32.716 --> 0:20:35.796 just natural. And he's like, oh, that's it, that's how 0:20:35.836 --> 0:20:39.716 that works. So yeah, I just jumped with the bottles 0:20:39.876 --> 0:20:42.836 and tried to do that stuff. And then the flutes 0:20:42.996 --> 0:20:51.596 it's similar. Okay, so this this trick is just that. Um, 0:20:55.836 --> 0:20:59.196 I start maybe four or six flutes to make that 0:20:59.356 --> 0:21:08.196 that one line. Those the harmonies. Okay, so you can 0:21:08.276 --> 0:21:10.476 hear me there a little bit of my voice and 0:21:10.596 --> 0:21:15.196 there is that. But there's some other tracks on the 0:21:15.236 --> 0:21:19.316 show where you can really hear this kind of and 0:21:19.396 --> 0:21:23.516 the breathing and everything. So those cover all the anxiety 0:21:23.676 --> 0:21:27.796 of the breathing and the lacking air and somehow you know, 0:21:27.876 --> 0:21:31.876 claustrophobic thing. There's lots of that in general in the show. 0:21:32.676 --> 0:21:38.396 And then have some keys. Okay, so that's the same 0:21:38.436 --> 0:21:41.276 as it's just adding a little a little bit of 0:21:41.276 --> 0:21:44.916 color there. And how did you decide on that sound. 0:21:45.196 --> 0:21:49.196 I'm not sure I wanted a little kind of sky 0:21:49.916 --> 0:21:55.476 Rickie kind of thing. Um. I suppose it's kind of 0:21:55.516 --> 0:22:00.956 a riverby Keyboord that just feed with the flutes. But 0:22:00.996 --> 0:22:03.916 it also sounds like what you might hear if you 0:22:03.996 --> 0:22:06.876 were like clubbing on a private eye, like a gatabza 0:22:06.956 --> 0:22:09.036 or something like that, might be like, yeah, a bees 0:22:09.316 --> 0:22:13.116 with a demented twist. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's an 0:22:13.116 --> 0:22:15.916 aspect of the score that it's it's very minimalistic, but 0:22:16.076 --> 0:22:20.556 it's there. Is that there are dance little things here 0:22:20.596 --> 0:22:24.356 and there, like like this bright clap sometimes when it 0:22:24.396 --> 0:22:27.356 comes it's almost like a four on the floor. Sometimes 0:22:28.156 --> 0:22:30.956 on certain versions, I don't know how to call it 0:22:31.636 --> 0:22:35.516 electronic dancing cheesiness here and there there are some elements 0:22:35.516 --> 0:22:39.596 of you know, just party rave, whatever you want to 0:22:39.636 --> 0:22:45.556 call it. But and then afterwards I have some effects 0:22:45.956 --> 0:23:06.796 in there, okay, some people screaming. Okay, so that's that's 0:23:06.876 --> 0:23:11.916 just the chaos happening, the birds, people screaming and stuff. 0:23:11.956 --> 0:23:14.876 And it's not when you hear the song. This is 0:23:14.916 --> 0:23:19.556 not clear, but he feels like you're somewhere and maybe 0:23:19.676 --> 0:23:22.356 the people fighting somewhere in the back or you know, 0:23:22.516 --> 0:23:26.236 stuff like that. Those are like the basic elements. Had 0:23:26.236 --> 0:23:29.316 you played those instruments before, Like, are those your instruments 0:23:29.356 --> 0:23:33.436 that like go to instruments in your arsenal percussions? I 0:23:33.516 --> 0:23:37.396 suppose I always do lots of questions, I think in general, 0:23:37.956 --> 0:23:41.516 but not as much of this, uh in this was 0:23:41.556 --> 0:23:44.596 allowed to be more, I would say, maybe a little 0:23:44.636 --> 0:23:51.676 more tribal, more all out. You know, jungle feeling music, No, 0:23:51.836 --> 0:23:55.196 not jungle music the style, but like I could make 0:23:55.276 --> 0:23:58.436 music like as if I was in the jungle. I 0:23:58.436 --> 0:24:01.356 mean a lot of the instruments are like kind of 0:24:01.756 --> 0:24:06.796 like African Pigmy have lots of Latin American and African instruments, 0:24:06.876 --> 0:24:11.676 and lately I've been buying more African instruments because lots 0:24:11.676 --> 0:24:16.716 of Latin Americans instruments have a background in Africa obviously. 0:24:16.956 --> 0:24:20.956 So for example, in this show, I use a quicker 0:24:21.956 --> 0:24:26.036 which is Latin America from South America, but there is 0:24:26.076 --> 0:24:28.876 an African version of that Latin America. The one we 0:24:28.956 --> 0:24:32.196 use that it's made of metal and we used it 0:24:32.356 --> 0:24:35.756 like ba Tokada and all these big festivities. So it's 0:24:35.796 --> 0:24:39.076 a really it's a loud instrument that sounds like a monkey. Basically, 0:24:39.076 --> 0:24:42.716 it's like a monkey talking or screaming and stuff like that. 0:24:43.116 --> 0:24:45.316 So lots of the monkey sounds in the show are 0:24:45.356 --> 0:24:48.636 not samples from monkeys, but it's this instrument. I mean, 0:24:48.676 --> 0:24:53.076 all these congress like for example, Congress is it's the 0:24:53.156 --> 0:24:56.756 most like you know, Cuban and Latin American thing you 0:24:56.796 --> 0:25:00.396 can think of. But but I have like other versions 0:25:00.556 --> 0:25:04.556 from from Africa and from other instruments like they Don't 0:25:04.556 --> 0:25:08.636 Don't which is uh which which are like huge congress 0:25:08.716 --> 0:25:12.716 with skins on both sides, and it sounds even more 0:25:12.916 --> 0:25:16.836 raw that the Latin American version. I have lots of 0:25:16.876 --> 0:25:20.676 stuff like that that I use in here that are 0:25:20.716 --> 0:25:26.636 not I suppose that are not Hawaiian. But that served 0:25:26.676 --> 0:25:32.116 the purpose, which wasn't to try to make like Hawaiian 0:25:32.276 --> 0:25:36.676 music or or it's not a Hawaiian so sound at all. 0:25:37.356 --> 0:25:39.556 Some people have talked about that that they feel like 0:25:39.916 --> 0:25:41.756 it's so cool with the music, you feel like you're 0:25:41.796 --> 0:25:45.476 in Hawaii, but it's really not. But it's more about 0:25:45.516 --> 0:25:48.716 the people who are there, their wild minds, you know, 0:25:48.796 --> 0:25:52.116 they're the dangerous minds, all that stuff. It's more an 0:25:52.156 --> 0:25:55.156 imagery like that. It's a lot in the writing too, 0:25:55.196 --> 0:25:57.436 and just in the way the characters are played and 0:25:57.476 --> 0:26:00.596 the tension between them. But the music definitely propelled it 0:26:00.716 --> 0:26:03.596 the same way, like you know, when you're watching Vertigo, 0:26:03.996 --> 0:26:06.196 it's Hitchcock's you know, you might know something's going to happen, 0:26:06.236 --> 0:26:07.876 but just when the start of the movie, if you 0:26:07.876 --> 0:26:10.396 didn't know it's Hitchcock, it could go anyway. And the 0:26:10.516 --> 0:26:14.596 music really drives that you're viewing experience, you know. Yeah, 0:26:14.756 --> 0:26:17.796 I think Mike's a genius really, whatever that means. I mean, 0:26:17.796 --> 0:26:22.636 there's so many definition of genius for me personally my experience. 0:26:24.196 --> 0:26:27.636 I think he's a genius because of what he allows 0:26:27.836 --> 0:26:31.356 to happen. I felt like even he when he felt 0:26:31.356 --> 0:26:33.636 a little bit scared about something that I would say 0:26:33.916 --> 0:26:38.756 sand or whatever, he was always allowing me to try 0:26:38.796 --> 0:26:41.796 stuff and maybe to be wrong about something, to make 0:26:41.876 --> 0:26:45.476 mistakes or whatever, or to do really weird things because 0:26:45.516 --> 0:26:51.276 he's looking for, you know, interesting, interesting ideas. And then 0:26:51.596 --> 0:26:56.716 sometimes some people you're gonna try something, and when you're 0:26:56.716 --> 0:26:59.676 even starting something, they're gonna put you down. It's like, no, no, no, 0:26:59.996 --> 0:27:02.076 don't think like that. No that we're not doing this. 0:27:02.196 --> 0:27:05.756 And it's like it's like we need to go somewhere 0:27:05.796 --> 0:27:09.036 and then talk about it and then move and then 0:27:09.276 --> 0:27:13.636 more further and stuff. But I have to say, it's 0:27:13.676 --> 0:27:16.556 really weird. It's like he knew what the music was 0:27:16.596 --> 0:27:21.836 doing and how people were going to react, and he 0:27:21.996 --> 0:27:25.156 somehow told me that the people, you know, this reaction 0:27:25.196 --> 0:27:27.036 I've been seeing to the show and to the music. 0:27:27.156 --> 0:27:29.876 It's like he told me that in advance that that 0:27:30.116 --> 0:27:32.436