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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Why won't he go away?

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about race attack faker Jesse Smollett. You know

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Speaker 1: when people are given everything beyond their wildest imaginations. Fame.

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Speaker 1: He was the star of Empire, you know, a hit

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Speaker 1: program on cable TV. Many people think he's handsome and charismatic,

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Speaker 1: making money handover fist. What more does this guy want?

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Speaker 1: He's got a loving family, his mother adores him. Well,

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Speaker 1: it ain't over yet. After Jesse Smollette convicted staging a

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Speaker 1: hate crime on himself good gravy, he has now filed

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Speaker 1: an appeal. He is filing an appeal of his conviction

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Speaker 1: for staging an anti gay racist attack on himself and

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Speaker 1: then lying to Chicago police about it, also letting two brothers,

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Speaker 1: the Osendaro brothers, take the fall. But where did the

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Speaker 1: whole thing start? And does this guy have a chance

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Speaker 1: on appeal? I want you to listen to this from

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Speaker 1: the Today Show.

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Speaker 2: No suicidal and I am innocent. I could have said

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Speaker 2: that I was.

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Speaker 3: Guilty a long time ago.

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Speaker 2: Even after a Cook County judge sentenced Jesse Smilett to

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Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty days in jail, the disgraced actor

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Speaker 2: turned convicted felon sticky to his story.

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Speaker 4: If I did this, then it means that I sucked

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Speaker 4: my fish in the fears.

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Speaker 2: Vlatamer is in the sputry for over four hundred years,

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Speaker 2: the former empire stars unwavering claim of innocence, ultimately his undoing.

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Speaker 5: You committed hour upon hour upon hour of pure perjury.

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Speaker 2: Judge James Lynn sentencing Smlett to thirty months felony probation,

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Speaker 2: including that jail time, ordering he paid more than one

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Speaker 2: hundred and twenty thousand dollars in restitution to the City

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Speaker 2: of Chicago and pay the maximum fine twenty five thousand dollars.

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Speaker 5: You've turned your life upside down by your misconduct in Shenanigan's.

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Speaker 5: You've destroyed your life as you knew it.

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Speaker 2: As a defiance, Smolette was taken into custody, his family

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Speaker 2: blasting the judge's decision.

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Speaker 1: He's the reason why folks aren't going to report hate crimes.

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Speaker 1: They're the reason why folks aren't going to report hate crimes. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you heard Jesse Smolette going down, swinging, lying through his

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Speaker 1: teeth till the end end. When you hear that reporter

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Speaker 1: going on and on about thirty months felony probation. Probation

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Speaker 1: that means you're not in jail. This guy, after all

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Speaker 1: he put everyone through, after the disservice he did to

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Speaker 1: real crime victims, he's gonna do about five days behind bars.

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Speaker 1: He got says to one hundred and fifty days, and

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Speaker 1: now he's done about five days. I mean'sy grace, This

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Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us, with

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Speaker 1: me an all star panel. Matthew Mangino, former District Attorney

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Speaker 1: Lawrence County, former Parole board member, author Executioners Told Doctor

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Speaker 1: Sherry Schwartz, forensic psychologists specializing in capital crimes, author of

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Speaker 1: Criminal Behavior and Where Law and Psychology intersect. Paul Zeite,

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Speaker 1: former police commander, who I can't wait to hear what

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Speaker 1: he's gonna say. Author stop him from killing them on

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Speaker 1: Amazon Kindle. But first to Alexis, to Restaurant Crime Online

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Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter Alexis, you know the whole thing,

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Speaker 1: go us all the way back to his ridiculous claims

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Speaker 1: of a hate crime perpetrated upon him because he I

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Speaker 1: guess his main thing was that he was gay or

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Speaker 1: because he was black. It was a mixture. When he

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Speaker 1: went out for a three a m subway run. How

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Speaker 1: in the hey has Smolette gotten out after just a

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Speaker 1: few days.

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Speaker 6: So the judge spent almost an hour telling him all

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Speaker 6: of the reasons why he was putting him behind bars.

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Speaker 6: The reason was he was found guilty of five salon

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Speaker 6: accounts of this early conduct, for lying to police about

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Speaker 6: his takee crime. He says that he was attacked at

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Speaker 6: two o'clock in the morning in Chicago, in the dead

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Speaker 6: of winter, absolutely sub freezing weather. Two men, he claimed,

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Speaker 6: wearing red hats that said make America great Again, magahats.

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Speaker 6: He blamed us on Trump. Said they attacked him and

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Speaker 6: said this is Trump country and beat him up and

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Speaker 6: tried to hang him by putting a newsover. At the

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Speaker 6: jury he said this was a big, fat lie and

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Speaker 6: found him guilty of lying. So the judge sentences him

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Speaker 6: to jail. He appeals, well, he first asked the judge,

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Speaker 6: can I have an appeal? The judge says no, You're

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Speaker 6: going right to jail.

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Speaker 1: Goes to jail.

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Speaker 6: His lawyers file acclaim with the appellate court and say

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Speaker 6: he has been sentenced to only five months in jail.

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Speaker 6: Only five months. We want to appeal this. We're going

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Speaker 6: to drag this appeal out longer than five months. So

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Speaker 6: if you keep our client in for the whole five

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Speaker 6: months and then when it's done, the appeal court overturns

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Speaker 6: the conviction, he will have unnecessarily served this time.

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Speaker 1: I don't care. Jesse Smollett hate crime faker walks out

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Speaker 1: of jail after release serving lesson a week of just

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Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty days. Hey, does everybody remember when

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Speaker 1: Paris Hilton went to jail and she was going to

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Speaker 1: do what she got like a six once senatece something

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Speaker 1: like that? She did three weeks maybe because the jail

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Speaker 1: was over a crowded. Was that Nicole Ritchie one of them?

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Speaker 1: And it was high drama. And the bottom line is

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Speaker 1: when you have a sentence like one hundred and fifty days,

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Speaker 1: you're going to get out really quickly anyway. But to

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Speaker 1: petition the court to get out early after what has

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Speaker 1: gone down, take us an hour cut twenty nine. Our

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Speaker 1: friend Patrick ELDWOODWGN.

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Speaker 7: Almost three years after he reported being attacked amid homophobic

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Speaker 7: and racial slurs after Jesse Smolette took the stand in

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Speaker 7: his own defense while being questioned by his attorney, Smolette

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Speaker 7: described the early morning incident, saying he had gone out

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Speaker 7: to Walgreens to buy eggs, but it was closed, so

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Speaker 7: we opted for a subway sandwich store instead. On his

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Speaker 7: way home, Smolette says he crossed paths with two men

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Speaker 7: wearing ski masks, with one of them yelling racial and

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Speaker 7: home homophobic slurs and saying he was in Maga country

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Speaker 7: while recognizing him as an actor on the TV show Empire.

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Speaker 7: Smollette says he threw a punch in his defense but

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Speaker 7: doesn't know if it landed. He fell to the ground

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Speaker 7: and was kicked. He testified that after the attack he

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Speaker 7: didn't even know there was a noose around his neck

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Speaker 7: because quote, I was getting my ass whooped unquote.

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Speaker 1: But yet there were no injuries. He had a time

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Speaker 1: little cut, and I don't know how many pictures he

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Speaker 1: took of it. Now take a listen to our cut

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Speaker 1: thirty three, our friend Charlie Demarcbs and E Chicago.

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Speaker 8: The actor also told the jury that he would do

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Speaker 8: drugs with Abel Osindaro and the two had a physical relationship.

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Speaker 8: He said during a bath house encounter there was some touching.

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Speaker 8: Abel denies those claims.

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Speaker 2: I'm ready to do what I gotta do.

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Speaker 8: It's likely that the case will hinge on whether the

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Speaker 8: jury believes Smolette or brothers Abel and Ola Osindaro, who

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Speaker 8: testified Smolette paid them to fake the attack.

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Speaker 1: Right, let me understand something, Alexis Terrestchuk. The payment was

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Speaker 1: tracked down. Wasn't it a check? The payment was tracked down,

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Speaker 1: And he tried to tell the jury that these two

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Speaker 1: guys that he did drugs with, that he went to

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Speaker 1: a bathhouse with, that he allegedly had romantic attachment with

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Speaker 1: sex with, they're the ones that attacked him, and they're

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Speaker 1: attacked him, and they're the ones he couldn't identify. I

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Speaker 1: no wonder the jury didn't believe him exactly.

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Speaker 6: These are guys that he's been friends with for years,

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Speaker 6: and in fact they were known to people on the

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Speaker 6: set of Empire. They are personal trainers. But he wrote

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Speaker 6: them a check, an absolute paper trail, undeniable paper trail,

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Speaker 6: even though he says it was for something else made

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Speaker 6: maybe drugs or maybe anything else. He can't really remember. Also,

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Speaker 6: he doesn't care because these two he doesn't even know

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Speaker 6: if they were the ones that attacked him, even though

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Speaker 6: they were caught on video.

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Speaker 1: I think we need a shrink, and we need one

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Speaker 1: pretty quickly. Hate crime Baker Empire star Jesse Smolette has

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Speaker 1: walked out of jail after about five days on one

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty day conviction straight out to doctor Sherry Schwartz.

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Speaker 1: Forensic psychologists joining us, this guy needs a shrink.

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Speaker 9: Well, that does seem to be the consensus, at least

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Speaker 9: in the psychological community. Nancy. Anybody who fakes something like

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Speaker 9: this an illness a crime where they fakes injury, typically

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Speaker 9: what we start to look at is something called factitious disorder.

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Speaker 9: If you think about Munchausen's by proxy, when that's done

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Speaker 9: to other people to get sympathy for yourself. This is

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Speaker 9: kind of where you do it to yourself to get

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Speaker 9: sympathy for yourself. But in this case he might also have,

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Speaker 9: you know, not so much a mental health disorder like

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Speaker 9: that where he's almost sympathetic, but this might have been

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Speaker 9: for personal gain in terms of promoting some movie project

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Speaker 9: that he was working on to get publicity.

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Speaker 1: Oh he got publicity, Doctor Sherry Schwartz. Didn't he like

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Speaker 1: this to rest Chuck, But who's ever going to hire him? Ever?

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Speaker 4: That's the thing.

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Speaker 6: This is his career is absolutely over. Empire was a huge.

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Speaker 1: Chance with his career. What about Lady Justice an appeal

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Speaker 1: bond my rear end. Why do you need a jury

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Speaker 1: if you're gonna then give the defendant an appeal on

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Speaker 1: what the jury just did? Why did you strike a jury? Okay,

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Speaker 1: back to you all like this, ter rest Chuck. I

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Speaker 1: know you're in Hollywood, and that's your mindset. My mindset

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Speaker 1: is about how hard I thought to prove convictions, to

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Speaker 1: prove cases, put a jury through h double l missing work,

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Speaker 1: away from your children, away from your home. You know,

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Speaker 1: nothing drives me crazier than have to be away from

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Speaker 1: the twins. And they're in court all all day long.

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Speaker 1: Listen to this guy whined about how bad he's got.

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Speaker 1: How much is he getting paid an episode?

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Speaker 6: Alexis two hundred thousand dollars an episode? An episode?

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Speaker 1: Did you hear that? Did you hear that? Fining?

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Speaker 3: Carrying on?

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Speaker 1: And he's been behind bars? What's five times twenty four?

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Speaker 1: Is that one hundred and twenty something? He hasn't even

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Speaker 1: been behind bars two hundred hours and he's out.

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Speaker 6: He has he has walked free. The appellic court has

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Speaker 6: three judges. It was not a unanimous decision. It was

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Speaker 6: two to one majority rules, and he walked out of

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Speaker 6: court at eight pm Chicago time. In a whole Hollywood production. Again.

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Speaker 6: You know, Jesse has five bodyguards, he has family members,

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Speaker 6: he has defense attorneys, the biggest entourage you've ever seen

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Speaker 6: outside of the TV show Entourage. It's like everything is

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Speaker 6: a Hollywood production for him.

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Speaker 1: Guys, take a listen to our cut thirty two our

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Speaker 1: friends from WG.

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Speaker 7: And small Let testified he resisted hauling Chicago police because quote,

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Speaker 7: I am a black man in America. I do not

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Speaker 7: trust the police unquote, But later he said responding officers

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Speaker 7: treated him very well. He testified as a gay black man,

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Speaker 7: he felt the incident would emasculate him and hurt his

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Speaker 7: chances for certain types of.

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Speaker 3: Future acting roles.

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Speaker 7: Earlier in the day, Smallhead testified he met the Osendairo

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Speaker 7: brothers through his job on Empire, and that he went

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Speaker 7: to a Chicago bathhouse with one of them where they

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Speaker 7: did drugs and made out. Prosecutors say he recruited the

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Speaker 7: brothers to stage the attack as way to pump up

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Speaker 7: his career. Smallhead has admitted to paying the brothers thirty

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Speaker 7: five hundred dollars, but says that was for weight training

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Speaker 7: and diet consultation.

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Speaker 1: Okay, hi, guys, Nancy Grace here, please join us now

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Speaker 1: on Fox Nation for a brand new investigation, Parallels of

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Speaker 1: Evil the Bundy and Idaho Killings. In this gripping special investigation,

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Speaker 1: we bring together an incredible panel of guests who analyze

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Speaker 1: disturbing similarities of evil between these horrible crimes. We speak

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Speaker 1: with two female Ted Bundy survivors, Karen Pryor and Cheryl Thomas,

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Speaker 1: who described their life before and after they were victims

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Speaker 1: of Ted Bundy. We also speak with the renowned private

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Speaker 1: investigator Bill Warner who worked in the cases, and Ted

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Speaker 1: Bundy's defense attorney, John Henry Brown. We traveled to Moscow, Idaho,

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Speaker 1: to speak with Washington State University students and interview neighbors

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Speaker 1: of Brian Coburger. One neighbor shares exclusive insights about the

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Speaker 1: suspect in the Idaho killings, Brian Coburger. Don't miss Parallel

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Speaker 1: of Evil the Bundy and I Hope Killings, streaming now

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Speaker 1: exclusively on Fox Nation Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. For

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Speaker 1: those of you just joining us, It's not over with

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Speaker 1: Jesse Smallett. He just won't go away. Or is this

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Speaker 1: part of another PR public relations plan on his part

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Speaker 1: to get more money and another job on camera. Who knows,

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Speaker 1: because reportedly the motive for the original race attack staging

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Speaker 1: was to drum up PR about himself so he would

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Speaker 1: make more money for his role in Empire. You know

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Speaker 1: all the hours the man hours police put into solving

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Speaker 1: the so called anti gay attack on Smolette and last

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Speaker 1: but not least, basically framing the two o Sandaro brothers

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Speaker 1: to take the fall for a fake attack, and now

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Speaker 1: we're supposed to believe his motion for a new trial,

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Speaker 1: his appeal. Let's take another look at the facts. Matthew Mangino,

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Speaker 1: former District Attorney Lawrence County, former Parole Board member, author

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Speaker 1: executioners told go ahead hit me.

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Speaker 10: Well, there's no question that you're angry at Jesse Smollett,

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Speaker 10: but I think we have to separate.

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Speaker 1: I agree with the judges that let him go.

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Speaker 10: Yes, well, and I understand that as well. But you

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Speaker 10: know you're mad at him, but we need to separate

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Speaker 10: the people we're mad at from the people that we're

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Speaker 10: afraid of. And is a this is a class for

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Speaker 10: felony in most cases in Illinois. This this be flat probation,

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Speaker 10: no jail time. You know, because he's a Hollywood name, Uh,

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Speaker 10: you know, should we treat him more harshly than we

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Speaker 10: would typically other people who file false reports with the police.

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Speaker 1: Okay, wait, who can you name me one person that

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Speaker 1: followed a false report with police in your jurisdiction that

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Speaker 1: took it to a jury trial and claimed he was

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Speaker 1: the victim of a racial and homophobic hate crime. Name one?

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Speaker 10: Well, I'm sure.

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Speaker 1: Don't tell me. Yeah they haven't. Who did something like this?

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Speaker 10: Well, I don't know really of anybody who faked their own.

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Speaker 1: Assault, their own hate crime.

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Speaker 10: Wouldn't do that their own hate crime because they don't

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Speaker 10: have anything to gain from it.

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Speaker 1: The worst conjuring Matthew Mangino is the news the news

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Speaker 1: for a black male. Sure have a new to put

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Speaker 1: it around his neck? And then we find out, isn't

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Speaker 1: this right? Alexis trest truck And feel free to correct

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Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong. I'd rather know the truth. Didn't

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Speaker 1: it come out that he took the news off and

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Speaker 1: then put it back on so the cops could get

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Speaker 1: it and their body can footage when they came back.

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Speaker 1: He is screwing around with one of the vilest and

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Speaker 1: most hated symbols in our country. What happened to so

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Speaker 1: many black males? Awful history? And he conjures that up

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Speaker 1: like an evil magician and puts it on and takes

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Speaker 1: it off for effect. Yes, hell, yes, he ought to

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Speaker 1: be in jail. Isn't that what happened? Isn't that what happened?

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Speaker 1: Alexis trestruck.

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Speaker 6: It is and in fact the dud he said that

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Speaker 6: these random attackers put this news on him. The brothers

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Speaker 6: were on video at a store buying the rope. They

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Speaker 6: didn't do this of their own. This wasn't idea. They

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Speaker 6: did this because he told them what to buy, because

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Speaker 6: this would have made the crime more solections.

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Speaker 1: And Matthew Mangino, I mean a renowned lawyer and author,

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Speaker 1: former district attorney now private lawyer, Matthew man Gino, you're

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Speaker 1: telling me that, hey, this happens all the time. They

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Speaker 1: don't go to jail, bs, This does not happen all

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Speaker 1: the time. To prey on the fears of people all

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Speaker 1: across the country, to pray on hatred and injustice and

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Speaker 1: use it for a pr boost to get a raised

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Speaker 1: in your salary. Oh no, no, he needs to be

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Speaker 1: in jail, man Geno.

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Speaker 10: Well, again, you know we're mad at him, we're angry

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Speaker 10: at him. But again, is he is he? Is he

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Speaker 10: a threat to the society?

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Speaker 4: Is he?

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Speaker 10: Is he a person who we should be afraid of,

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Speaker 10: who's going to be turned loose on the streets? I mean,

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Speaker 10: you know, if he wasn't a celebrity, we would have

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Speaker 10: heard nothing about this case. You know, the fact that

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Speaker 10: he's a celebt or the fact that he is it

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Speaker 10: doesn't matter.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. That's the whole. If a tree falls

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Speaker 1: of the forest, does anybody hear it? Yeah, it can

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Speaker 1: be heard, even if you're not there. It still makes

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Speaker 1: a sound. Whether he's a celebrity or not. He did

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Speaker 1: this thing.

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Speaker 10: Great, And people in similar situations who are convicted of

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Speaker 10: class four felonies in Illinois don't go to jail.

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Speaker 1: But you haven't been able to name another similar situation.

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Speaker 10: Have you another actor who's done something like this?

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Speaker 1: No, I don't know if any anyone, anyone that's done

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Speaker 1: something like this. Prayed on prejudices and hate and a horrible,

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Speaker 1: hateful history of targeting people and the worst conjuring of

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Speaker 1: all the news. I mean, it goes on and on

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Speaker 1: and on. I want to go to Paul Zych, former

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Speaker 1: police commander, author of Stop Him From Killelling Them on

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Speaker 1: Amazon Kindle Paul's Eye, What do you think?

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Speaker 4: Well, I think you had two dozen detectives that engage

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Speaker 4: in three thousand hours plus of investigation to bring an

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Speaker 4: offender to justice that did not exist. And the fact

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Speaker 4: that the officers were chasing essentially a ghost is something

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Speaker 4: they're not equipped really, And you could go two careers

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Speaker 4: without finding this exact situation where a a top flight

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Speaker 4: actor or any sort of high profile individual, or any

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Speaker 4: victim so to speak, would make up an entire story

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Speaker 4: and have props and have all these other things to

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Speaker 4: make you believe that these terrible things had happened. Furthermore,

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Speaker 4: it also opens the door for an arrest to be

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Speaker 4: made of the wrong people or people that never were involved.

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Speaker 4: You know, we're we're so worried about people being in prison.

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Speaker 4: Who have you know, twenty thirty years ago didn't do

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Speaker 4: what they were accused of doing. This exact setup, this

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Speaker 4: exact paradigm, could have created a situation where if they

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Speaker 4: believed him and not these other individuals, the people that

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Speaker 4: he hired to commit these crimes, they could be in

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Speaker 4: prison for the next twenty years. And who's looking at that,

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Speaker 4: and not to mention the you know, the political motivation

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Speaker 4: behind it all. That's just sickening. And it really for

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Speaker 4: me and law enforcement in me as a human being,

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Speaker 4: it is the worst within mankind for something like this

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Speaker 4: to happen to be completely false, and nobody's really prepared

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Speaker 4: for that. But guess what it happens, and it just did.

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Speaker 1: In the last hour, Star of Empire or Justice, Mollett

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Speaker 1: demands a new trial after he stayed for faking a

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Speaker 1: hate crime on himself. In the last weeks, the Empire

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Speaker 1: Star files the appeal in an investigation where Chicago cops

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Speaker 1: conclude Smolette hired the two Osendaro brothers to carry out

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Speaker 1: the crime. He was sentenced to wait for it one

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty days in jail last year, but because

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Speaker 1: of all of his moaning and groaning and crying and sndting,

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Speaker 1: he actually got out on an appeal bond to walk

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Speaker 1: free until his case is decided. Is there a chance

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Speaker 1: this guy could somehow swing a new trial? You know,

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Speaker 1: Paul Siche as go ahead, I'll circle back to sch

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Speaker 1: go ahead.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, okay, real quick, this is my advantage, you know.

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Speaker 10: And again, you know, I understand that the time that

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Speaker 10: was put into this case, but you had twenty five

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Speaker 10: police officers investigating a false report to the police. There

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Speaker 10: were eight hundred homicides.

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Speaker 1: Oh wait a minute, wait a minute. You had all

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Speaker 1: these cops investigating what they believed to be a hate

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Speaker 1: crime and possible attempt to murder even by putting your

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Speaker 1: moose around his neck on a celebrity because he's black,

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Speaker 1: because he's gay. That's what they were investigating. And then

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Speaker 1: old roads led back to Jesse Smollett. Right, they found

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Speaker 1: the purple all right, it was Smollett.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, let's put it in perspective. Eight hundred homicides in

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Speaker 10: Chicago and you got twenty five police officers investigating this.

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Speaker 1: This No, you are not turning this back around on

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Speaker 1: the cops. They think that the mole men are out there. Wait,

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Speaker 1: alexis Terreshak. At some point did he say that the

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Speaker 1: purpse threw bleach on him? He did? Oh, dear Lord

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Speaker 1: in Heaven, I mean, come on, Zike, help me out here.

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Speaker 1: You hear men, Geno if you believe that there are

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Speaker 1: purps out there that are throwing bleach on a victim,

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Speaker 1: on beating them, wrapping a noose around their neck, taunting them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna look for the purpse. And then the fact

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Speaker 1: that the victims of celebrity making this crime high profile,

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Speaker 1: giving your city a black eye. Yes, the cops are

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Speaker 1: all over a potential hate crime. Because hate doesn't die,

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Speaker 1: that purp will do it again and again and release

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Speaker 1: his hate. In another way, the purp had to be stopped.

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Speaker 1: And you've got Mengino trying to turn this around on

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Speaker 1: a cop. So there's that question. But this is what

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Speaker 1: I was gonna ask you earlier. It makes me think,

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Speaker 1: what's it all for? Why did I beat my brains

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Speaker 1: out trying to put bad guys behind bars every day,

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Speaker 1: working till three and four in the morning sometimes for

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Speaker 1: this for the pearl to be let out? How do

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Speaker 1: you think the Ousindari brothers feel. How do you think

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Speaker 1: that Gurrs feel? The cops his stand by and see

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Speaker 1: all that work, all that effort for what what about it? Zike?

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Speaker 4: Well, here's the thing we talked about those twenty four officers,

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Speaker 4: and you can imagine the emotions they're going through.

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Speaker 1: I bet they feel defeated.

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Speaker 4: Defeated absolutely, they put all that in for nothing. Any

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Speaker 4: good cop that's worth their weight, and there's a lot

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Speaker 4: of them in this country, by the way, take that

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Speaker 4: as a personal insult that somebody in their city could

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Speaker 4: possibly be the victim of a hate crime and have

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Speaker 4: all these heinous things done to them. Their position is

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Speaker 4: going to be, I'm not going home. I'm not going

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Speaker 4: to bed until I find the people that did this

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Speaker 4: and bring them to justice, not on my watch, and

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Speaker 4: have all that be turned around and be an absolute

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Speaker 4: farce and just sham of the criminal justice system. Those officers,

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Speaker 4: I guarantee you are defeated. How they may even need

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Speaker 4: counseling at the end of that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when you work that hard. I mean, Alexis Teschut,

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Speaker 1: you have been around me when I've been working on

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Speaker 1: a case. I live it, I breathe it, I ate it,

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Speaker 1: I drink it. That's what I think about until it's solved,

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Speaker 1: and that can take days, weeks, months, sometimes longer. And

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Speaker 1: when you finally crack a case, it finally goes to trial,

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Speaker 1: and then this, I mean, I agree with Zych It's

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Speaker 1: just such a defeat for everyone that worked the case.

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Speaker 6: And you know, the police officers, they in the very

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Speaker 6: beginning believed him. They believe Smullett. They actually were stopping

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Speaker 6: so many people because he had given a description of attackers,

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Speaker 6: so they were questioning everybody in town. They were going

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Speaker 6: to find the perpetrators. Little did they know they were

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Speaker 6: his two friends that he was hanging out with all

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Speaker 6: the time, and he paid to do this. But they

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Speaker 6: were very serious about trying to find the suspect.

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Speaker 1: Don't you know that prosecutor is besides himself. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to our cut the four.

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Speaker 11: This jury worked so hard, and for mister Smollette to

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Speaker 11: get up in front of them and lie for hours

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Speaker 11: and hours and hours, that.

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Speaker 3: Really compounded his misconduct.

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Speaker 11: And quite frankly, when I saw that happen in the courtroom, at.

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Speaker 3: Least for me as a trial lawyer that.

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Speaker 11: Spent my life in the courtroom, we don't expect defendants

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Speaker 11: to do that.

433
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 3: Defendants have a right to go to trial.

434
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 11: Defendants have a right to argue that their case has

435
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 11: not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. But defendants do

436
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 11: not have the right to go in front of a

437
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 11: jury and lie under oath. Mister Smollett would not have

438
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 11: lost this case as he did today unless the jury

439
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,199
Speaker 11: found that he lied to them, And so that was

440
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 11: something that I was very proud that this jury came

441
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 11: to the conclusion that he's guilty, and the fact that

442
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 11: he came up with a completely ridiculous story to explain

443
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 11: his misconduct did not apparently have an impact on the

444
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 11: jury's verdict.

445
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: Boy, I'd love to hear what the grs had to

446
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: say today. Take a listen now to ourkud the four

447
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: A Alpha.

448
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 3: There are two things that I think stuck with the jury.

449
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 11: Number one, I think my basic argument that it is

450
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 11: ridiculous to think that Smolette left his apartment on the

451
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 11: night of January twenty ninth at two o'clock in the

452
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 11: morning to go buy eggs, and that that's his explanation

453
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 11: for why he ended up right at that intersection, right

454
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 11: at two o'clock in the morning that the brother said

455
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 11: is where he told.

456
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 3: Them the attacks should take place.

457
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 11: So the fact that it actually happened that way, I

458
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 11: think was pretty profound. I also think that sometimes it's

459
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 11: simple things. He actually rigged that rope, after that rope

460
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 11: got put on him, I showed the picture to the jury.

461
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 3: Pictures don't lie.

462
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 11: Those pictures showed that he actually, after he went through

463
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,959
Speaker 11: this fake attack, wanted to make it look better, and

464
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 11: he jimmied with the rope to make the noose look

465
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 11: closer to his throat and rustled around because the rope

466
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 11: you saw in the courtroom was nice and neat around

467
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 11: his neck, because old Austin Daryl didn't have time to

468
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 11: do much with it, because a car came and so

469
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 11: he ran away.

470
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 3: He left the rope next to his face.

471
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 11: Small lut got up put it around his neck, and

472
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 11: then when it didn't look bad enough, he changed it.

473
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 11: And I think that impacted the jury.

474
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: I like this terrest check. Is it true that Smolette

475
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: refused to eat? It sounds like a child refusing to eat,

476
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,479
Speaker 1: having a little tantrum. He wouldn't eat behind bars, And

477
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: for Pete's sint, it's the local jail. Anybody ever seen

478
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: Andy and Mayberry? For Pete's sake, when Otis would let

479
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: himself in and out, it's not like he's in the pen.

480
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: He's not in Alcatraz, he's not in mac security in

481
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: the hole. For Pete's sake, he wouldn't eat.

482
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 6: So claimed that he had given up food for Lent,

483
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 6: so he was fasting for the entire duration of Lent,

484
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 6: the forty days of Lent. So he said that he

485
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 6: gave up food six days before he actually was sentenced

486
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 6: to jail. So he I guess at this point is

487
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 6: now not eaten for eleven days, that it was a

488
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 6: religious thing.

489
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: So he was going to starve for forty days. He

490
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: was not going to eat for forty days, the forty

491
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: days preceding Easter. Do I understand you? Yes, Okay, that's

492
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: a lie. There's no way Jesse Smillette was not going

493
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: to eat for forty days. That's just that's just not true.

494
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: But fine, another lie by Jesse Smilette. And now he's

495
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: dragging Easter into it. Did you hear that, man, Gino,

496
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: he's dragging Easter.

497
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 10: In Well, the only person I know this fasted for

498
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 10: forty days was Jesus.

499
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: And just do not do not start on him. Don't

500
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: do not. I don't even want to hear him dragged

501
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: into this conversation for Pete's sake. But I do agree

502
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: that you're right. That's the only person I've ever known

503
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: to starve himself for forty days and forty nights, and

504
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: although he was greatly tempted, he didn't give in small

505
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: atte However, it's still lying through his teeth. So alexis

506
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: terrest shuck. He had nothing but water behind bars, correct,

507
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: the main streets of the Cook County Local Jail, Right,

508
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: it is.

509
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 6: But the Cook County Jail is not a cush jail.

510
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 6: It isn't notoriously bad jail.

511
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: You know what do you think jail is? Alexis terrestruck.

512
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: Where are you joining me from Rodeo Drive this morning?

513
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 6: No, I'm not on Rodeo Drive, but I am in

514
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 6: Los Angeles.

515
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 3: But jail is jail.

516
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 6: But the Cook County Jail is bad as well. It's

517
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 6: not a nice one.

518
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: Well, it's jail. What do you wanted to be a spot?

519
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 10: Well?

520
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 6: I also think that he was getting fairly special treatment,

521
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 6: but they.

522
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,040
Speaker 1: Said that they Well, you're right about that. Didn't he

523
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: get moved from one place to the next so he

524
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: could be what did he get to the medical ward

525
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: so he could have a different surrounding he was in?

526
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: You know what? Take a listen to hour cut see

527
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: this is Leah Hope ABC seven.

528
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 12: Four days into the one hundred and fifty day sentence.

529
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 12: Jesse Smollett remains in protective custody at the Cook County Jail,

530
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 12: and his family remained steadfast in their support of the

531
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 12: former TV star who was convicted for lying to police

532
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 12: about a hate crime hoax.

533
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 3: He's very strong. It's a very angering situation. It's been

534
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 3: a complete mental marathon for him and my family. But

535
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 3: he's very strong. He's very focused.

536
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 12: Smollet's youngest brother visited him yesterday at the jail, where

537
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 12: Smollett is in a cell by himself and being monitored

538
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 12: in the medical Way.

539
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Welcome back, guys. Remember Smolette

540
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: to Chicago police. He was attacked on a dark street

541
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: by two masked strangers that put a noose around his

542
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: neck signifying a lynching of a black male, pouring chemicals

543
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: on him while yelling racist, homophobic slurs. They somehow even

544
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: to work in They somehow even managed to work in

545
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: support for Donald Trump. Well that's quite the kinky dink.

546
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: The brothers who actually testified in court told the jury

547
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: Smullett hired them to fake the attack only because he

548
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: wanted more money and to bolster boost his celebrity profile.

549
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 1: Smollett later said that in the days before the fake

550
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: race attack, he and the brothers were together, but not

551
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: to rehearse the attack. They were actually just getting high

552
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: on pot. Matthew man Gino, former District Attorney Lawrence County,

553
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 1: former Parole board member author Executioners, told Matthew, the medical

554
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 1: wing is a cushy area. You're not in general population.

555
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 1: There are very few inmates in there. There nurses walking around,

556
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 1: they're they're measuring your hydration and your pulse and all that.

557
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: Why was he in the medical wing?

558
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 10: Well, you're right, that's the medical wing is like a

559
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 10: hospital within a correctional facility. Uh, you know, maybe it's

560
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 10: because he was starving himself. I don't know. You know

561
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 10: that that's curious that he would be in the medical

562
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 10: wing other than his absurd fasting. But again, should he

563
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,280
Speaker 10: even be in jail is the question.

564
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: I believe that the jury decided that, and you're still

565
00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: talking about it.

566
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 10: The jury decided he was guilt, The judge decided that

567
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 10: he had to go to jail. And again, if you're

568
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 10: going to look at similar class for felonies in Illinois,

569
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 10: they they don't involve jail.

570
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 1: Again again, Matthew Mangino, You keep talking about similar crists,

571
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: but yet you have been unable to name one crime

572
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: that you can specify that is similar to this crime.

573
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 1: The breadth of his hopes on Lady Justice is beyond

574
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:42,320
Speaker 1: compare and still lying through his tea as he SIPs

575
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 1: ice water. Take a listen to our cut e from Fox.

576
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 13: Jesse Smilette going free, at least for now while he

577
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 13: tries to get his sentence overturned.

578
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:53,240
Speaker 3: The appeals court ordered.

579
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 13: Jesse's released during the appeals process. He will first have

580
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 13: to post a bond of one hundred and fifty thousand

581
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 13: dollars before he's left out of Coke County Jail, although

582
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 13: it's unclear when exactly he'll be able to walk free.

583
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 13: Jesse started serving his five months last Thursday, and immediately

584
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 13: after the judge sentenced him, he started shouting that he

585
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 13: was innocent and raising his fists in the air as

586
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 13: he was taken out of the court in handcuffs. Tense

587
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 13: moments inside of the courtroom in this video, his defense

588
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 13: team and his family members never stopped asking for his release,

589
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 13: claiming that Jesse was in physical harm while behind bars.

590
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 3: They cited racist and.

591
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 13: Homophobic threats that they had received, and also said Jesse

592
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:40,800
Speaker 13: was highly susceptible to contracting COVID nineteen while in jails.

593
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: Really racist and homophobic threats. Again, that second verse same

594
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 1: as the first Alexis dress check. That's what he claimed

595
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 1: the first time. For all I know is Smolette from

596
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: the Cook County payphone calling his family. I mean, they're

597
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: tuning up with that again. I mean, if these threats

598
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 1: were real, it would be different. But they've already been

599
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,280
Speaker 1: proved to be a line, which doesn't injustice to every

600
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 1: hate crime victim out there that has been targeted because

601
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: they're black, because they're gay, because they're Asian, because they're

602
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:20,280
Speaker 1: a woman, because they're filling the blank hate hate because

603
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: of who you are, and they're praying on that again.

604
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:30,720
Speaker 6: You know, prinaters that are incarcerated complain all the time

605
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,879
Speaker 6: about how they have so little access to the outside world.

606
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 6: It's very extensive to make a phone call.

607
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: The calls are collect number one, but go ahead.

608
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 6: And so the fact that they're saying after five days

609
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 6: that social media Twitter Instagram is affecting how Jesse is

610
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 6: mister Smollett is being treated behind bars doesn't compute. It

611
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 6: just doesn't make sense that they think people who are

612
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 6: saying things about him on social media would then somehow

613
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 6: affect people behind bars. If that information has infiltrated, you know,

614
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 6: some sort of scary group behind bars, it's going to

615
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 6: then target Smallett. It defies logic.

616
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: You know, Matthew me and Gino, high profile lawyer is

617
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 1: joining us. A former district attorney and Lawrence County now author. Matthew,

618
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:22,919
Speaker 1: how many times as one of your clients gotten an

619
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 1: appeal bond, which means after you're convicted at trial, typically

620
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,399
Speaker 1: by a jury, the judges, oh, you know what, Never

621
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: mind about that conviction thing, You're going to walk free

622
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 1: to an appeals court, for instance, the Illinois Supreme Court

623
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: rules on your case, and then after they rule, maybe

624
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 1: you can appeal it on up to the Circuit Court

625
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 1: of Appeals and after that, hey, maybe you can take

626
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 1: it all the way to the US Supreme Court. You

627
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: just don't know how far this appeal is going to go.

628
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: But the whole time you can stay out behind bars.

629
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 1: I mean, why even have a jury trial?

630
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:02,760
Speaker 10: Well, to answer your question, you know, it's not entirely

631
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 10: unusual to get an appeal bond.

632
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 1: How many you had, Well.

633
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 10: I'm just just let me finish. It's not entirely unusual

634
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,760
Speaker 10: to get one from a trial judge who heard the case,

635
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 10: who thinks that maybe you have an appeal that has

636
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 10: some merit to it, based on him having observed the trial.

637
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 10: So you know, he made grant that. It is unusual

638
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 10: to within five days at least in my experience, to

639
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 10: have an appellate court intervene and say this person should

640
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:37,720
Speaker 10: have an appeal bond over the denial of the trial judge.

641
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 10: That's unusual. I can't say that I've ever seen that.

642
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 1: Can I ask you a question? Yeah, how many times

643
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 1: as a prosecutor did you get a conviction on a

644
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: case and then that person get out on an appeal bond?

645
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 10: It's rare because I never.

646
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:58,720
Speaker 1: Had it happen to me as the prosecutor. Not once.

647
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 1: Did one person that I took a trial and there's

648
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 1: the commission get out while they appealed the conviction. That

649
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: never happened. And that was ten solid years of inter

650
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: city Atlanta high crime.

651
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 10: I mean, I don't disagree with you, so never never,

652
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 10: and you're here. But if you have it, if you

653
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 10: have a you're not answering.

654
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Matthew Man. You know you're not answering. How

655
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: often did that ever happen to you? Did it ever happen?

656
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 10: I would say sometimes maybe in eight years or a judge,

657
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 10: a judge granted and at pilbond when in fact.

658
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: That's one of your cases. I didn't hear the number.

659
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,959
Speaker 10: I say a couple you know, the district attorney. Every

660
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 10: case was mine. So I say a couple of times

661
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 10: it's happened, all.

662
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: Right, I've never had it happen. Who's jumping in? Is

663
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 1: that Paul's I?

664
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:47,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, Nance, I'd just like to make a quick comment,

665
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 4: and that is, you know, when you look at this

666
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 4: from the flip side, let's just say he would have

667
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:55,439
Speaker 4: been successful. Let's say that that the his plot would

668
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 4: not have been discovered. He essentially would be setting up

669
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 4: one or two or more people to spend you know,

670
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:09,280
Speaker 4: a decade or two behind bars just to promote his career.

671
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 4: And that angle is not really being thought of in

672
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 4: this Yeah, he lied, Yes he wasted a lot of time,

673
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 4: Yes he had a lot of resources diverted to him.

674
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 4: But if his end game would have happened, the perversion

675
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:27,399
Speaker 4: of justice would have been unimaginable.

676
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 1: You know, you're right. Those Sadari brothers could have gone

677
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 1: down for years on end for a hate crime for

678
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 1: throwning bleach on small At, for beating him up, for

679
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,879
Speaker 1: attacking him, and then putting a noose around his neck.

680
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:46,800
Speaker 1: Doctor Sherry Schwartz, what exactly is a pathological liar?

681
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 9: Well, this is somebody who I mean to put it

682
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 9: really simply, if their lips are moving, they're lying. That's

683
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:59,280
Speaker 9: how you can think about them, because the lies literally

684
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 9: just come out out of their mouths with great deal

685
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 9: of ease. Research on pathological liars shows that, you know,

686
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 9: if they're hooked up to like an EKG right to

687
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,760
Speaker 9: check their pulse and things like that, that they lie

688
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:17,320
Speaker 9: and they really don't experience that same kind of physical

689
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 9: reaction that somebody who's telling a lie that doesn't normally

690
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 9: lie would, like anxiety and things like that, heightened arousal.

691
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 9: They just lie for the sake of lying.

692
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 1: Lie for the sake of lying. To Alexis Terrestia Crime

693
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter Smallest Lawyers filed what we

694
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 1: call an emergency motion, claiming that if he stayed in jail,

695
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 1: he would have a physical threat even though he was

696
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 1: being held in protective custody. What are the grounds on

697
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,880
Speaker 1: which his defense lawyers argued he should be out on

698
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 1: appeal bond.

699
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 6: Well, that is what they say. They say that he

700
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 6: is in danger of being threatened by people. But they

701
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 6: also said, look, this appeal could take months and months,

702
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 6: a much much longer than one hundred and fifty days

703
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 6: that our client has been sentenced to jail. So if

704
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,760
Speaker 6: in the very end, you know, one year from now,

705
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,280
Speaker 6: his appeal is granted and his conviction is a returned,

706
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:28,240
Speaker 6: he will have already served that time and you can't

707
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 6: take that back.

708
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 10: You can't.

709
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 6: There's no way to fix that. You serve time that

710
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 6: you weren't supposed to ultimately serve. So that is what

711
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 6: they argued. That the appeal would take longer than the

712
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 6: sentence would, so he should be out on bond during

713
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 6: that time. And in fact, they imposed one on him

714
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 6: one hundred and fifty thousand dollars, and they said, but

715
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 6: you don't have to pay that upfront, but if he

716
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 6: misses any more court cases, he's got to pay that.

717
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 6: So many allowances made for them.

718
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: Jesse Mallett now demands a new trial. You know what,

719
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 1: Be careful what you wish, my dear for, you will

720
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 1: surely get it. A new trial. Could that mean a

721
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 1: new sentence, A really long sentence. We wait as just

722
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,319
Speaker 1: as unfolds. Goodbye friend,