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Speaker 1: On today's episode, we're bringing the Madness to March Madness

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Speaker 1: a thirty two coach bracket. We're talking through half of it.

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Speaker 1: Who goes on, who goes home? Welcome to the solid verbal.

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Speaker 1: I'm that for me. I'm a man, I'm forty. I've

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Speaker 1: heard so many players say what I want to be happy?

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Speaker 1: You want to be happy for day? Edith State? Is that?

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Speaker 1: Woo woo? And no? Then and Tye, welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the solid verbal, Boys and girls, my name is ty Hildenbrandt.

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Speaker 1: That fine gentleman over there, back from his trip westward

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Speaker 1: to southern California, back in the comfy confines, the heart

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Speaker 1: of the Midwest. Dan Rubinstein, back in Chicago, Sir, how

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Speaker 1: you doing today? Welcome home? I'm good.

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Speaker 2: I left you one hundred dollars for groceries, and I said,

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Speaker 2: you know, feed yourself a very diet, just like if

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Speaker 2: I were in town, a content diet, and you blew

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Speaker 2: it all on Notre Dame gummy bears, didn't you? You

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Speaker 2: blue it all on gummy bears and Notre Dame liquorice

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Speaker 2: and Notre Dame chocolate chips.

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Speaker 1: Ty, what are you doing?

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Speaker 2: I trusted you you do a Notre Dame episode, and

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Speaker 2: then on our Verballers dot com Q and a you

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Speaker 2: just have your mom Notre Dame fan on.

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Speaker 1: That's right, you blue the whole hundred bucks time, right,

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Speaker 1: We're all children at heart, Dan, What can I say?

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Speaker 1: Come on, I trusted you.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm good time. I'm glad you know Daylight Savings

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Speaker 2: has me messed up. But nonetheless, this is a very

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Speaker 2: bracket full week.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I didn't fill out an NCAA tournament bracket yet, mostly

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Speaker 2: because I don't watch college basketball anymore.

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Speaker 1: I should.

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Speaker 2: I like college basketball, I just haven't watched it this season,

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Speaker 2: so I know nothing. But I think we should still

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Speaker 2: create a sOliver. We created one, yep, I created one,

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Speaker 2: and I posted good good. I posted it in discord.

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Speaker 1: I will create a link and post it out on

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Speaker 1: social media for people who jump on in. So we'll

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Speaker 1: pay play for a pride not prize, as they say,

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Speaker 1: and whoever is the victor will get the spoils and

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Speaker 1: we'll say a shout out on the show. How about that? Sure? Great? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we are officially the only podcast, the only sports podcast,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure this week doing a bracket themed episode. My

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Speaker 1: hunch is that It's a popular construction for any sports

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Speaker 1: themed episode, especially for ones that aren't college basketball related.

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Speaker 1: But March Madness kicks off officially on Tuesday, if you

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Speaker 1: want to talk about the first four, but more broadly speaking,

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Speaker 1: on Thursday. We have a coach bracket today, Dan, We've

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Speaker 1: got thirty two coaches that we have bracketed off based

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Speaker 1: on a recent column by our friend Bruce Feldman where

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Speaker 1: he ranked his top twenty five college football coaches. We

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Speaker 1: also added in seven extras just to keep things fresh

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Speaker 1: and expand the field out to an even thirty two.

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Speaker 1: We're not going sixty four wide. That will be more

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Speaker 1: time than we've got here on the podcast, but thirty

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Speaker 1: two coaches bracketed off. You've got a rubric for determining

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Speaker 1: who you're going to advance and who you aren't. I've

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Speaker 1: got sort of my own emotional rubric, let's say that

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Speaker 1: we can speak to as we get into this thing.

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Speaker 1: But if you are listening for the first time, or

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Speaker 1: maybe not for the first time, however you choose to

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Speaker 1: listen to the Celiver, We'll make sure you hit subscribe,

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Speaker 1: Make sure you tell your friends about the podcast. Two

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Speaker 1: public episodes every week. Make sure you're going out too.

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Speaker 1: Verballers dot Com. It's where we do bonus content, the

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Speaker 1: least of which is every Thursday. But now as if

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Speaker 1: we're getting into March and spring football in April, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna start doing off topic stuff. We'll have a more

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Speaker 1: varied diet, if you will, of items that we can

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Speaker 1: present before the Verballer hoods. So again that's verballers dot Com.

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Speaker 1: And last, but certainly not least, make sure you follow

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Speaker 1: along on YouTube and all of our social media channels.

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Speaker 1: Daniel March Madness. Huh, March Madness. I've got a bracket

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Speaker 1: that I am holding up before the camera printed printed out. Yep, yep.

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Speaker 1: We're going in with this so that I can keep track,

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Speaker 1: so that I can be the pace car and keep

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Speaker 1: the discussion moving forward. We've got thirty two coaches bracketed

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Speaker 1: off into four groups of eight. Again, we were using

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Speaker 1: that article by Bruce. We will use that as kind

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Speaker 1: of our go by here for our seeding. What is

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Speaker 1: your I guess personal measuring stick for who's going to

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Speaker 1: go through and who isn't. Because we've got some of

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Speaker 1: the titans of the sport, Nick Saban, the number one

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Speaker 1: overall seed just like Alabama. Actually in the NCAA tournament,

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Speaker 1: which again kicks off on Thursday and Friday, tips off,

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Speaker 1: I guess I should say on Thursday and Friday. But

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Speaker 1: Nick Saban number one overall seed here, no great surprise.

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Speaker 1: His first round matchup, not to get too far out

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Speaker 1: over my skis, is against Mac Brown, who's the eighth

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Speaker 1: seed in this bracket. How will you be scoring? How

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Speaker 1: will you personally be judging which coach you want to

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Speaker 1: put through versus who gets kicked to the side.

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Speaker 2: Well, look, I'm gonna look at track record, right. It's

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Speaker 2: it's great that a coach was excellent last year of

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Speaker 2: the last couple years. But I want sustained success on

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Speaker 2: some level or comparing coaches and who has sustained more

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Speaker 2: success and what is success? Well, that's an incredibly subjective term,

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Speaker 2: as you know. I want to see winning games. I

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Speaker 2: want to see beating good teams. I want to see

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Speaker 2: finishing in top fives, tens, fifteens, twenty fives, whatever. I

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Speaker 2: want a track record of hiring well recruiting. Well, that

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Speaker 2: this one's I think more specific to me. I want

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Speaker 2: finding multiple quarterbacks, quarterbacks plural. I think that's incredibly important

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Speaker 2: to find, you know, not just have a flash in

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Speaker 2: the pan situation where you ride one guy through a

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Speaker 2: stretch of your career, but otherwise you weren't able to

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Speaker 2: find and develop that guy to do multiple eras. I

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Speaker 2: want you not losing to terrible teams, preferably ever right,

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Speaker 2: not being outclassed by clearly inferior teams on the field.

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Speaker 2: That would be a big deal. And then I want

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Speaker 2: at least one side of the ball to be largely

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Speaker 2: excellent during your tenure. And a side of the ball,

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Speaker 2: either side of the ball, whether it's your background or not,

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Speaker 2: as a head coach, when you're a position coach, a coordinator,

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Speaker 2: I want non disastrous sides of the ball. And I

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Speaker 2: know we're on it. We're still on our Iowa moratorium.

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Speaker 2: I believe getting too in depth about the twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: two Iowa football season. But I'm looking for no or

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Speaker 2: maybe just blip on the radar disastrous sides of the

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Speaker 2: ball for a coach. That's what I'm holding against coaches

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Speaker 2: or four coaches, you know, putting in favor of coaches

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Speaker 2: that like, look, they've never had a truly bad offense

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Speaker 2: or defense. And that's to me that's important because they

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Speaker 2: are giving their team, they're giving their coaching staff every

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Speaker 2: opportunity in the world to succeed. So that's mainly what

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Speaker 2: I'm looking at in terms of how I'm going to

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Speaker 2: grade coaches against each other.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there are a couple other important context

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Speaker 1: clues that I think I've got here in front of me. Hmm.

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Speaker 1: It is not everything. It is certainly not the most

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Speaker 1: important stat But if we're doing any kind of bracket

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Speaker 1: like this, you need to have all time winning percentage.

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Speaker 1: You need to have some some some greater foundation. For example,

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Speaker 1: we've got Nick Saban Mack Brown right now. Nick Saban

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Speaker 1: has two hundred and seventy nine career victories at the

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Speaker 1: College Football Division ie FBS level. Yeah, Mac Brown's second

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Speaker 1: to sixty four to sixty eight. Excuse me, so a

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Speaker 1: historic matchup, to say the least, right out of the shoot.

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Speaker 1: But where do these guys stand. Some of the names

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Speaker 1: that we're going to discuss are actually higher up on

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Speaker 1: this list than you might expect, if only because they've

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Speaker 1: been in one spot for a good long time. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: if we're talking about some of the newer names on

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Speaker 1: this list, that might not apply another bit of I

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Speaker 1: think interest intrigue if you will. Okay, our good friends

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Speaker 1: over at college football Reddit, Reddit dot com, slash r,

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Speaker 1: slash CFB, somebody over there put together a five year

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Speaker 1: average of the twenty four to seven Composite recruiting rankings.

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Speaker 1: Again not everything. Saban's been there a good long time.

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Speaker 1: Nick Saban, as you might expect, has the highest average

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Speaker 1: of all the schools that are listed here. They only

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Speaker 1: did it out to the top fifty. But again important

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Speaker 1: context here to your point of you know, who is

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Speaker 1: doing more with less, who is able to attract big

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Speaker 1: time talent to the school. These are things that I

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Speaker 1: think we're gonna at least consider as we're going through.

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Speaker 1: My emotional rubric is also guys that I would want

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Speaker 1: as kind of my counterpart if I were in a

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Speaker 1: bar and things got scrappy. Okay, the so called crazy

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Speaker 1: guy in the fight. Those guys tend to motivate. They

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Speaker 1: don't always win, but tend to motivate at least belief there.

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Speaker 1: There's belief there, right, They've got the ted Lasso Believes

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Speaker 1: sign hanging up in the locker room like Penn State basketball,

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Speaker 1: and of course just some guys like Brian Kelly and

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Speaker 1: this that I don't like. So I'm going to dstad

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Speaker 1: out of my own time, look in my own head

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Speaker 1: how to deal with that?

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Speaker 2: It's a bracket, And what do we do with our

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Speaker 2: brackets in the NCAA tournament. We just go with our gut,

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Speaker 2: Like I don't like VCU. Sorry, I don't like them.

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Speaker 2: And so that's a reason enough to fill out a

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Speaker 2: bracket in a manner that we get used to. So

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Speaker 2: I'm totally good with you, you know, shooting from the hip

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Speaker 2: with this one, ty, do you want to begin, Let's

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Speaker 2: do it.

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Speaker 1: Got four brackets. I change the geography a little bit

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Speaker 1: just to be more thematic. Yeah, and more appropriate for

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Speaker 1: some of the coaches that we're listening off here today.

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Speaker 1: We've got a South bracket, a Midwest, bracket, in East,

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Speaker 1: and a Southeast. Okay, all right, a little bit weighted

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Speaker 1: towards the lower right quadrant of the good old us

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Speaker 1: of a first overall seed Nick Saban squaring off against

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Speaker 1: Mac Brown. Sabin is the one overall in the South bracket.

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Speaker 1: As I just eluded, Nick Saban right now has the

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Speaker 1: most wins of any of these coaches. Division one FBS

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Speaker 1: career mac Brown is second on that list. So this

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Speaker 1: is a historic matchup of sorts. Dan, I would be

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Speaker 1: hard pressed to not pick Nick Saban here, sure, if

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Speaker 1: only because of what Nick Saban's done. Nick Saban is

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Speaker 1: also continuing to recruit, continuing to perform at a very

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Speaker 1: very high level. I think he obviously checks all the

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Speaker 1: boxes for your little personal rubric. He seems to be

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Speaker 1: getting better with age. He always hires at a really

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Speaker 1: high level. It does not seem like maybe on the

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Speaker 1: mac Brown side, which is what we've seen, maybe like

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Speaker 1: a little bit of steam coming out in the balloon.

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Speaker 1: That does not appear to be the case at all

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Speaker 1: for Nick Saban. They have reached critical mass with that

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Speaker 1: Alabama program, and so I'm not going to say it's

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Speaker 1: on autopilot. He clearly is still the engine behind it.

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Speaker 1: But it's just continuing to produce at such a high

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Speaker 1: level that it's got to be Nick Sabe been going

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Speaker 1: through here, right.

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Speaker 2: First of all, do we put steam in balloons? Is

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Speaker 2: that is that a thing?

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Speaker 1: Hot air? Balloons?

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Speaker 2: That's hot air? But it is that steam. I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: have to do something.

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Speaker 1: It's hot air.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna have how hot it is. But Okay, I

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Speaker 2: don't understand the principles of flight. Let's get that. Let's

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Speaker 2: get out that out of the way first and foremost.

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Speaker 2: I think, first of all, it's interesting that we have

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Speaker 2: Nick Saban against mac Brown here. I'm gonna try to

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Speaker 2: speed through this because we've got a long list of matchups.

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Speaker 2: But I think the thirty two seed being mac Brown,

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Speaker 2: is full on disrespectful from you.

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Speaker 1: One night it was great from listen. It wasn't from me,

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Speaker 1: It's from Bruce. It's our show. It's from Bruce. I

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Speaker 1: went through one through twenty five, and then the others

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Speaker 1: that he considered I tacked them on. At the end.

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Speaker 1: He didn't even a list Crystal Ball. Maybe he shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be on the list, I don't know, but that was

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Speaker 1: that was the way that I put these together.

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Speaker 2: I'm saying, it's disrespectful of us, it's disrespectful of Bruce.

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Speaker 2: Mac Brown wins a ton at Texas, of course, uh

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Speaker 2: and then he doesn't right at Texas, and now he's

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Speaker 2: at North Carolina. It's been sort of a mixed bag.

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Speaker 2: You know, Sam Howell and Filongo have been highlights. You know,

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Speaker 2: those the running backs that the running back duel from

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Speaker 2: a couple of years ago was a highlight. Really strong receivers.

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Speaker 2: Defense has been a nightmare. I think I'm with you

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Speaker 2: in suggesting that we are looking at this maybe in

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Speaker 2: the last five years, like that's a good set. Like

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Speaker 2: way you did in two thousand and seven is not

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Speaker 2: at all relevant when the you know, recruits from the

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Speaker 2: class of twenty twenty four were born in two thousand seven,

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Speaker 2: like right, Like, it doesn't matter what you did in

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Speaker 2: the early two thousands or even in the twenty most

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Speaker 2: of the twenty teens or whatever. So it's disrespectful. Mac

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Speaker 2: Brown has had an incredible career. But as of right now,

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Speaker 2: and I like that you we have North Carolina on

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Speaker 2: the onset because they're the team that I'm considering to

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Speaker 2: be the replacement level good team in that they've had

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Speaker 2: a bunch of top twenty ish classes and if we

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Speaker 2: look at if we compare two coaches in a matchup

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Speaker 2: to say who would do better at North Carolina, no

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Speaker 2: clear clear advantage geographically or historically, no clear disadvantages because

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of talent, you know, on the East

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Speaker 2: coast Southeast they have access to, and they've recruited pretty

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Speaker 2: well the path is not super easy, but it's not

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Speaker 2: crazy difficult. So I'm using North Carolina actually as my

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Speaker 2: goodest team program in the country where they're like maybe

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Speaker 2: right around seventeen or eighteen. So who would do better

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Speaker 2: at North Carolina? Nick Saban or Mac Brown? I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: say Nick Saban?

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Speaker 1: How about that? Saban? Let's move on. Okay, The number

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Speaker 1: two seed in the South bracket Brian Kelly squaring off

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Speaker 1: against the number seven in the South bracket, Troy Calhoun.

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Speaker 1: Troy Calhoun of air Force. Brian Kelly, of course, of LSU.

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Speaker 1: I almost said Notre Dame. So look, Troy Calhoun has

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Speaker 1: been at air Force since two thousand and seven. He's

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Speaker 1: won one hundred and twenty one games. He's won his

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Speaker 1: last four Bowl games. He's won double digit games three

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Speaker 1: of the last four years. To your point of doing

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Speaker 1: or with less, it's hard to beat Troy Calhoun. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: air Force is never going to be a recruiting juggernaut.

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Speaker 1: They're always going to have to run a system that

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Speaker 1: suits their personnel, whether I like it or not. He's

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Speaker 1: been very successful at running that system and at being

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Speaker 1: consistent consistent, right that being said, Brian Kelly, maybe isn't

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Speaker 1: doing quite as much with less, but has also been

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Speaker 1: shockingly consistent. That's why he's got the monster deal from

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Speaker 1: LSUI decided to leave Notre Dame in pursuit of a

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Speaker 1: national championship. So sure, Brian Kelly has taken his programs

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Speaker 1: to greater heights, but Troy Calhoun, you could argue, has

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Speaker 1: been just as consistent, not working with the same level

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Speaker 1: of talent, and I think that makes that a very

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Speaker 1: interesting matchup here between Kelly and Calhoun.

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Speaker 2: I think you have to respect and admire the job

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Speaker 2: Troy Calhoun has done at air Force with the Falcons

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Speaker 2: but one top twenty five finish during his tenure at

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Speaker 2: air Force. Brian Kelly is one of.

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Speaker 1: Those everywhere he's been he wins.

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Speaker 2: Kind of coaches, which include small, medium in large places

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Speaker 2: now in his career. So I don't believe that Troy

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Speaker 2: Calhoun would do a better job at North Carolina, even

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Speaker 2: with what you know is a limitation at air Force

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Speaker 2: and the kinds of system and athletes you can recruit

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Speaker 2: to a service academy. I believe in my marrow ty

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Speaker 2: that Brian Kelly would do a better job at North Carolina.

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Speaker 2: He's found quarterbacks, not top top tier quarterbacks, but decently

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Speaker 2: good quarterbacks at various stops, has had good sides, has

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Speaker 2: had very good offensive line, good defense. Like there's just

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Speaker 2: a calling card to Brian Kelly in different ways to

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Speaker 2: win that a recruiter. I'm just I would be much

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Speaker 2: more confident in Brian Kelly going eleven and one in

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Speaker 2: Chapel Hill than I would Troy Calhoun. But again, what

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Speaker 2: we're talking about three of the last three full seasons.

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Speaker 2: I believe so if you eliminate the twenty twenty COVID

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Speaker 2: year double digit wins with a Bowl win, so nothing

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Speaker 2: to to smirk or scoff at Troy Calhoun very much

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Speaker 2: deserving to be in this in this bracket, who does

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Speaker 2: better at air Force? Who does better at air Force?

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Speaker 2: I don't think that matters, honestly.

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Speaker 1: Look, I mean, Brian Kelly's got the experience in his

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Speaker 1: career of being at a place like Grand Valley State.

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Speaker 2: He's just shown it more. Brian Kelly has gone bigger

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Speaker 2: and bigger Troy Calhoun. Whatever he's done. He does not

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Speaker 2: have varied stops. He has varied hair shades.

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Speaker 1: He does I'm glad you brought up which he had

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Speaker 1: a I don't know if it's still going on with

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Speaker 1: the just for men. Look that Troy Calhoun sported a

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Speaker 1: couple of years ago. M hmm, it is it? Speaking

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Speaker 1: of varied diets, this is a varied color palette that

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Speaker 1: he's been working with, but nonetheless that does not pertain

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Speaker 1: to the on field success. I just think it's got

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Speaker 1: to be Look, I'm not Kelly, I'm not the world's

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Speaker 1: because Brian Kelly fan. Brian Kelly's been successful at every level,

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Speaker 1: and we just don't have that body of work with

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Speaker 1: Troy Calhoun on to the same.

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Speaker 2: Three and the thing I would also credit Brian Kelly

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Speaker 2: with is had an incredibly down four and eight season,

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Speaker 2: much publicized foreign eight season.

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Speaker 1: I am aware, I'm familiar.

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Speaker 2: Organ won fourgn eight that same year, bounce back incredibly right,

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Speaker 2: made necessary changes, improved where improvements were needed, and so

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Speaker 2: Brian Kelly to me as the no brainer through to

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Speaker 2: the next round.

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Speaker 1: Three seed in the South bracket. Kyle Whittingham squaring off

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Speaker 1: against the six Brett Beilama, Dan, this.

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Speaker 2: Was interesting, interesting, It's interesting.

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Speaker 1: Is a very interesting matchup. So you look at Brett

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Speaker 1: Beilama and of course had a ton of success at Wisconsin,

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Speaker 1: the Arkansas experience, the five years he was there, a

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Speaker 1: bit of a mixed bag right four an eight, his

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Speaker 1: final season in twenty seventeen, not exactly going out on

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Speaker 1: a high note. But what he's done in very short

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Speaker 1: order now coming back home to Illinois to the Big

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Speaker 1: Ten has been very successful in just two years. I

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Speaker 1: think there's a lot of optimism around that program. So

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Speaker 1: you feel good. You've got good vibes for sure. If

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Speaker 1: you're an Ali and I fan, and on the Kyle

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Speaker 1: Whittingham side, I mean, we've been huge Kyle Whittingham fans

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Speaker 1: for a good long time. Kyle Whittingham is kind of

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Speaker 1: the model for consistency. We talk about Troy Calhoun being

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Speaker 1: in one place since two thousand and seven. Kyle Whittingham's

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Speaker 1: been at Utah since two thousand and four. He's been

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Speaker 1: there for ever and has certainly as of late, just

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Speaker 1: in the last ten years or so, been very very

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Speaker 1: very consistent with that program. He had success early on

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Speaker 1: in his tenure, but over the last eight seasons, Dan,

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Speaker 1: They're just money. They are just money. They seem to

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Speaker 1: have solved the riddle of putting a consistent product out there.

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Speaker 1: Year in and year out, two consecutive Rose Bowl appearance

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Speaker 1: has unfortunately lost both. But nonetheless Utah feels like a

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Speaker 1: program that it is definitely it just sort of ever

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Speaker 1: so slightly trending up. So what say this is a

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Speaker 1: good matchup in the first round?

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Speaker 2: Here there are people who consider Kyle Whittingham to be

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Speaker 2: one of the best five coaches in America. Yeah, best

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Speaker 2: six or seven coaches in America because of how consistently

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Speaker 2: good Utah has been lately. You mentioned the last couple

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Speaker 2: of rose Balls. You can say, what choil about the

365
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Speaker 2: PAC twelve. You can't finish better than first, Nope, which

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Speaker 2: they've done these past couple of seasons. So I think

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Speaker 2: he's a terrific coach now, hasn't done it anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: Started his career sustaining the excellence that urban Meyer put

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Speaker 2: in place. But this has been his program for well

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Speaker 2: over a decade.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: This is not him just taking advantage of what urban

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Speaker 2: Meyer built. This has been his program. They are one

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Speaker 2: of the lone consistent success stories of a program jumping

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Speaker 2: up as from a G five level conference to a

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Speaker 2: Power five level conference.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: We saw Colorado really struggle with that. One of the

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Speaker 2: success stories of realignment in general, a team trading conferences.

380
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Speaker 2: So repulom has proved it at different places. The highs

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Speaker 2: of hire for Brett Bulama in the Rose Bowls won

382
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Speaker 2: and then those types of NFL players on both sides

383
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Speaker 2: of the ball generated in terms of star power Russell Wilson,

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Speaker 2: JJ Watt, guys like that at Wisconsin. But did struggle

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Speaker 2: at Arkansas or up and down anyway? Has both have found?

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Speaker 2: I would say multiple quarterbacks. You know, there was some

387
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Speaker 2: pretty terrific passing offenses weirdly enough at Arkansas. Obviously a

388
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Speaker 2: couple of efficient quarterbacks at Wisconsin to say the least.

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Speaker 2: So I do give Brett Beilama points now because the

390
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Speaker 2: exercise that we all put in place is but what

391
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Speaker 2: would he do at Wyoming? What would he do at Illinois?

392
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Speaker 2: What would he do at wake Forest? And Kyle Winningham

393
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Speaker 2: has never left no whereas Brett Bielima, both by his

394
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Speaker 2: own accord and by other people's accords, has had to

395
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Speaker 2: prove it at multiple places, and to win at Illinois

396
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Speaker 2: has been sort of proven to me not super easy.

397
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Speaker 2: And with the defense, with the hiring, with the vision

398
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Speaker 2: on offense, Brett Bielum has been very impressive overall. Still

399
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Speaker 2: gonna say Kyle Whittingham because you have to knock a

400
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Speaker 2: failure against Brett Bielima. But I think it's incredibly close.

401
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think it's very easy to look

402
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Speaker 1: at what Bilama has done most recently in a stop

403
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Speaker 1: now with Illinois and say he's building them back up,

404
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Speaker 1: and that's admirable. All too often, while we're looking at coaches,

405
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Speaker 1: we have that same question in the back of our mind.

406
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Speaker 1: Are they able to build up whatever program they're working on,

407
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Speaker 1: build up to achieve something new. We don't talk as much,

408
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Speaker 1: perhaps as we should, about coaches who take over for

409
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Speaker 1: a quote unquote a legend because that's what Erbenmeyer was

410
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Speaker 1: at Utah and they're able to maintain the success. That's

411
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Speaker 1: really hard to do. If not build upon, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: If not build upon, you can speak to the Mark

413
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Speaker 1: Helfrich era. Dan I can speak to, like the Dan

414
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Speaker 1: Devine era at Notre Dame. Every school has a story

415
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Speaker 1: similar to this, right. We can talk about Larry Koker's Miami.

416
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Speaker 1: We can talk about all these instances we've seen throughout

417
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Speaker 1: the history of college football where the guy after the

418
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Speaker 1: guy steps in and just isn't able to keep the

419
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Speaker 1: proverbial steam in the balloon, right, So steam in the balloon,

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Speaker 1: that's right. It's our new thing here. So I appreciate

421
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Speaker 1: greatly what Brett Biliba has done, and I'm excited to

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Speaker 1: watch Illinois. But Kyle Whittingham has just been a staple

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Speaker 1: in college football, a staple, And though I credit Bilma

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Speaker 1: for jumping around a little bit, Wittingham moves on. Let's

425
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Speaker 1: go to the final first round matchup in the South bracket.

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Speaker 1: This is an interesting one. This is based on Bruce's

427
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Speaker 1: seating not ours. Okay, okay, He's got Kaylin de Boor

428
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Speaker 1: ahead of Jimbo Fisher in his rankings. I love this matchup. Yeah,

429
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Speaker 1: Kaylen de Borr is the four, no pun intended, no

430
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 1: rhyme intended. Jimbo Fisher is the five in this bracket.

431
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 1: The winner moves on to play Nick Saban, which is

432
00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 1: its own conversation. But to Boor against Jimbo Fisher dan

433
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 1: very interesting. Kalen de Boor, I think, has fashioned himself

434
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 1: as a bit of an ex's and O savant. Everywhere

435
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 1: he's been, he has proven that he can coach offense

436
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 1: that a really high level. He's very creative. He saw

437
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,119
Speaker 1: what he did in his time at Indiana, saw what

438
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 1: he did his time at Fresno, what he's done in

439
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 1: just one year at Washington. It's apparent that there is

440
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 1: some real coaching talent there and that he can organize

441
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 1: the troops very quickly. Jimbo Fisher, at least on the

442
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 1: offensive side, is a ship going in an opposite direction. Right.

443
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 1: He's essentially had to fire himself and bring in a

444
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: guy like Bobby Patrina to run the offense because what

445
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 1: he was trying wasn't working. What he was trying was

446
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,879
Speaker 1: was very stale and stubborn, and it ticked off A

447
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 1: and M fans to no end. That said, the recruiting,

448
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:47,879
Speaker 1: for sure, the recruiting at A and M has been

449
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: at a much much higher level in the time that

450
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 1: Jimbo's been there. We could debate the merits of why

451
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,360
Speaker 1: that is or is not, but I don't think there's

452
00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,200
Speaker 1: a debate. I mean, it's oriented. Yeah, it's a fascinating

453
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 1: matchup here between Jimbo and Kaylan de.

454
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 2: Boor So, if you're in North Carolina today and you

455
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 2: have five million dollars and you have two checks, one

456
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 2: that says paid to the order of John James Fisher

457
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 2: or James John Fisher, I forget which order, or kaylend Burr.

458
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 2: I would imagine the trustees the chancellor whoever at North

459
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 2: Carolina would probably be more enthusiastic about giving that money

460
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 2: to Kaylen Deboor today in terms of a track record,

461
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 2: in terms of finding multiple quarterbacks as a head coach,

462
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 2: not just you know, having a good season with Jay Kyner,

463
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 2: but finding him and developing him, identifying him and developing him.

464
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 2: We still have a Heisman National Championship quarterback in Jimbo

465
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 2: Fisher's favor. We have both of these guys lately on

466
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 2: the precipice of the playoff ish I guess for Washington

467
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 2: and most certainly for Texts A and M with Jimbo Fisher.

468
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 2: So Jimbo Fisher has accomplished things and has been two heights,

469
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 2: fully unknown to Caleb de Boer as a head coach.

470
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 2: So I'm saying, if I'm North Carolina today, I'm giving

471
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 2: that money to kayalend Bora because I'm too worried about

472
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:21,120
Speaker 2: Jimbo Fisher's catastrophic pre election for offense lately, and that's

473
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 2: not his pre election but catastrophic offenses lately, and this

474
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 2: is incredibly difficult. Better the more accomplished coach to Jimbo Fisher.

475
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 2: The better coach today is Kaylen de Boor. The coach

476
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 2: who is able to accumulate talent, and you have talent,

477
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 2: then you can do more things than when you don't

478
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 2: have talent is Jimbo Fisher. I'm going to ever so

479
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 2: slightly because I believe winning a national championship is something

480
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 2: that you'll never have to apologize for or look past.

481
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 2: I'm giving it to Jimbo Fisher. And even though Kayalen

482
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 2: de Boor is the today North Carolina check, I'm giving

483
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 2: it to Jimbo Fisher just because again he was not

484
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 2: that long ago that he got a team with a

485
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 2: very average quarterback to the brink of the playoff, right,

486
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, look, Fisher.

487
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 1: There's a thing that they say about NFL quarterbacks that

488
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 1: veteran quarterbacks. He saw it with Joe Montani, certainly saw

489
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 1: it with Peyton Manning. But they say that these guys,

490
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: these notable legends of the sport, when they're really at

491
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 1: the end of their career, the arm is the first

492
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: thing to go and when it goes. It just happens.

493
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 1: It's not like it happens gradually over the course of

494
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: a couple of seasons. It just sort of goes and

495
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: suddenly there's no zip on the fastball. And I worry

496
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 1: a little bit about that with Jimbo Fisher. I worry

497
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,479
Speaker 1: a little bit about that because what he has been

498
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: running offensively, by and large, has been the same thing

499
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: since his time at Florida State. Yeah, he hasn't changed

500
00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 1: a whole out there. He hasn't really had to change

501
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 1: a whole lot there. He's been very stubborn about doing so.

502
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 2: And even when it looks like it's changing, it still

503
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 2: seems like the vision and philosophy is rooted in the

504
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:09,959
Speaker 2: same place.

505
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So I wonder if we're approaching a situation

506
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 1: with Jimbo Fisher as a coach where he's lost that zip,

507
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 1: where he's lost that fastball, and we'll find out. I mean,

508
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's equipped to handle a setup

509
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: like this where he is turning things over to a

510
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 1: guy like Bobby Patrino. I think Bobby Patrina is just

511
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 1: glad to be there. I think Bobby Patrino will come

512
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: with ideas, But I don't think Bobby Petrino is going

513
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: to want to be pushed aroun because Bobby Patrino, in

514
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,640
Speaker 1: his own right was a pretty successful coach, at least

515
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: for a moment in time. I don't know how jimbo

516
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,159
Speaker 1: Fisher is going to deal with that scenario. Now. I

517
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: have high hopes for A and M because the talent

518
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: that they have on hand is still pretty damn good,

519
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 1: and I expect great things from A and M the season.

520
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 1: I think they will be just fine.

521
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 2: But it's who's better, who's better, who's the better coach?

522
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 1: I like you would give the money to Kaylen de

523
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: Bor if it were my program, I would give the

524
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 1: money to Kaylen de Bor's. He's younger, he's got I think,

525
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 1: a very bright coaching future in front of him. But

526
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: what you did before still has to count for something.

527
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 2: By the way, I think, if I said Caleb before,

528
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 2: I apologize. So I've just now got paranoid that I

529
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 2: did Klin de Bor?

530
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 1: Of course?

531
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 2: Can I Can I mention something else? How many seasons

532
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 2: has Kaylin de Boor built a ross with a roster

533
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 2: that he has built coached a Power five team?

534
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: Yeah? Zero? Right, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. So

535
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: I think I give it to Jimbo as well. Okay,

536
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: I don't feel great about that matchup, but Jimbo and

537
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: a buzzer beater, Okay, I'm with you. I've got a

538
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: first upset here. A five over a four not a

539
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: great one. But uh, you want to work through this

540
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: bracket and then move. We might have to make this

541
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: two parter and finish this. That's why whatever you want, Uh,

542
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: Nick Saban against Jimbo Fisher, Oh, spicy very. We had

543
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: Nick Saban against Jimbo Fisher before the twenty twenty two season.

544
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: The war of work we did this is Saban, right,

545
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: obviously Saban.

546
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 2: I mean it's you can line up basically any coach

547
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 2: ever and say it's Nick Saban. Now we can have

548
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 2: a conversation. Another point of if it's today, are you

549
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 2: giving that ten million dollar check to Kirby Smart or

550
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 2: Nick Saban? That's a worthwhile conversation.

551
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: We might have that conversation because Kirby Smart's the number

552
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: two overall seed, but right, that might not be until

553
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: our next episode at this ring.

554
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, if we're having this conversation in twenty fourteen,

555
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 2: it's an interesting conversation Jimbo Fisher Nick Saban, But at

556
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 2: this moment, now much of a conversation. It's Nick Saban

557
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 2: moving through with a twenty seven point win, early run

558
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 2: in the first half. What about Kyle Whittingham against Brian Kelly, Now,

559
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 2: this is fascinating.

560
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: Is a really good matchup. This is a really freaking

561
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: good matchup.

562
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 2: So let's go back to Let's go back to North Carolina.

563
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 2: Let's go back to if you are running the tar

564
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 2: Hill program, you were that chancellor, if you were that trustee,

565
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 2: whatever the board of trustees, who does better in Chapel Hill.

566
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: By the way, just for reference, Bruce has Brian Kelly

567
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: eighth overall, Kyle Whittingham ninth overall. Okay, so this was

568
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: close for him too. This was close for him too.

569
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: If I am giving money to somebody at North Carolina,

570
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: I'm probably giving that money to Brian Kelly. I'm probably

571
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: giving that money to Brian Kelly. Because everywhere Brian Kelly's been,

572
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: and he's been in a couple stops, he's won. He's

573
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: built from the lines out. He hasn't always had a

574
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: high level quarterback play. You know, that's my one gripe yep.

575
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 1: But by and large, everywhere he's been he's found he's

576
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: found a way to win double digit games and be

577
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: really successful. We have not seen Kyle Whittingham do that.

578
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: I have no doubt that he could do that, we

579
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: just have not seen it. So through that Lens I

580
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: probably put Brian Kelly through.

581
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 2: I'm putting Brian Kelly through proving it at multiple places,

582
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 2: winning the SEC West in year one, h taking Notre

583
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 2: Dame to the National Championship an undefeated season, which, again

584
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 2: you can say whatever you want about Notre Dame's twenty

585
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 2: twelve schedule and the way they navigated it. Going undefeated

586
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 2: is incredibly difficult. Going to the playoff perhaps easier when

587
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 2: you play twelve games rather than thirteen at Notre Dame,

588
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 2: but nonetheless went to the playoff. Interestingly, I have qualms

589
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 2: of both of these coaches in terms of developing offenses

590
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 2: and finding quarterbacks who have some pop downfield right, that's

591
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 2: been the issue now. I still think Kyle Whittingham has

592
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 2: found multiple quarterbacks, though I don't know how many of

593
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 2: them at the moment we're playing in the NFL, or

594
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 2: have had much experience in the NFL. Same can be

595
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 2: said about Notre Dame, and I guess alice us since

596
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 2: they're not going to have an NFL quarterback out of

597
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 2: this past year's team. But I think I'm still going

598
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 2: to go with that North Carolina element. I would take

599
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 2: Brian Kelly and Chapel Hill because I think he has

600
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 2: a better understanding of navigating a big place in a

601
00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 2: big conference or big conference ish with Notre Sure, So

602
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 2: I'm going I'm going BK in this spot, albeit barely

603
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 2: because some of the Utah lows didn't thrill me, some

604
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 2: of the hirings haven't thrilled me. But damn if he's

605
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 2: done a great job there. But still going BK.

606
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, BK is just steady Eddie. Yep, you know what

607
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: you're paying for with Brian Kelly. You might not like

608
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: the guy. He might have a fake accent, which I

609
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: did deduct a few points for if I'm being honest. Yeah,

610
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: you know what you're gonna get. So we're putting BK through.

611
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: That means our final to come out of the South

612
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: bracket as Saban against Kelly.

613
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 2: Which we've seen and we've seen different coaches win that matchup.

614
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: We could probably pencil Saban all the way through to

615
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 1: the final. But Saban's ability to attract talent at a

616
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: really high level, His ability to hire new guys seemingly

617
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: every year or every other year to run the offense

618
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: of the defense, I think is perhaps the single most

619
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: impressive thing of any of these coaches on this list.

620
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: His ability to deal with coaching turnover, even roster turnover, frankly,

621
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: with guys going pro, with new top flight recruits coming

622
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: in every single cycle. His ability to manage all that

623
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: is a masterclass. You know, yeah, of course, And we

624
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 1: talk about Brian Kelly that he's more of a CEO

625
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: type and that's kind of his his style of a coach,

626
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: and even guys who played for him have said, ah, well,

627
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 1: it's you never really know what Brian Kelly stands for.

628
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: You never get too close to him. That's by design.

629
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: He's obviously been very successful at it. But there's got

630
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: to be that element to Saban too, because you can't

631
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: not be a CEO type at least on some level.

632
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: If you've got all of these moving pieces every single season,

633
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: it just seems like a lot. And I'm sure he's

634
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: got the support staff to deal with at Abama, but

635
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: there are a lot of other guys who are dealing

636
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: with similar things, and they're nowhere near as successful.

637
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 2: Brian Kelly on a current win streak head to head

638
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 2: against Nick Saban, if I recall correctly, that is correct. Yep,

639
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 2: on a current win Now, there's no real case for

640
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 2: Brian Kelly. They've played on the biggest stage, right, the

641
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 2: BCS National Championship.

642
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: I fell asleep after the first quarter. But you can't

643
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 1: a forty two to fourteen.

644
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, the only thing is you the only this isn't

645
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,720
Speaker 2: even speaking realistically, but the only conversation that you could

646
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 2: have hypothetically would be if they're both at their current

647
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,760
Speaker 2: place for the next four years, who finishes with more wins.

648
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 2: If you are a believer that this is Nick Saban

649
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 2: winding down, and if you're the type of college football

650
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 2: thinker like you mentioned that when it goes, it goes right.

651
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 2: When you lose the zip on the fastball, there's no

652
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 2: getting it back. If you are believing that about Nick Sable,

653
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 2: I'm not, at least not either. Right now, then that

654
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,720
Speaker 2: you can you can plant to flag and say, Brian Kelly,

655
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,240
Speaker 2: next four years, rejuvenated LSU should win a bunch of games.

656
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 2: Has quarterbacks should have you a really strong defensive coordinator

657
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 2: at the moment. You know has had more continuity with

658
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 2: his coordinators. Sure, I'm still saying until proven otherwise, even

659
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 2: in the short term, even if we're starting from twenty

660
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 2: twenty two, I have a lot more faith in Nick Saban.

661
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, Savan goes through. Saving in the final four yep,

662
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 1: saving in the final. Let's move the Midwest. Number one

663
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 1: overall seed in the Midwest, not overall seed, number one

664
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: seed in the Midwest. Jim Harbaugh Jim Harbaugh squaring off

665
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 1: against Willie Fritz. Interesting, Yeah, very interesting matchup. A lot

666
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,879
Speaker 1: of people like Willie Fritz. A lot think he's a

667
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: really good coach. I have to read one of them.

668
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: Jim Harbaugh is ever the interesting character in college football.

669
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: I feel like more often than not, we've had a

670
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 1: similar discussion on this show. Maybe not in the context

671
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 1: of a thirty two coach bracket, but we're always trying

672
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 1: to figure out where does where does Jim Harball rank

673
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: among these I think we feel pretty confident that he's

674
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,839
Speaker 1: in the top ten, but depending on what he says,

675
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,240
Speaker 1: or how he recruits, or how his teams performed, were

676
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 1: more willing maybe with Harball than anybody else to slide

677
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,280
Speaker 1: him up or down that list at a moment's notice.

678
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: He's just a controversial figure, and he's not that controversial

679
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,800
Speaker 1: of a guy. He's just a controversial figure for multitude

680
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:17,280
Speaker 1: of reasons.

681
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 2: So Harbaugh against Fritz Dan. The case of Fritz is

682
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 2: he's not a wildcard, right that, I mean, in his

683
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 2: own way, I suppose he is. He's been at a

684
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 2: number of places. One in a number of places, Jim

685
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 2: Harbaugh has won exactly zero mineral Water Bowls, whereas Willie Fritz.

686
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: Look it up.

687
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 2: Look it up, people, it's Jim Harbaugh going back to

688
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 2: San Diego, going to Stanford, which was as down a

689
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 2: program nationally when he took it over, I think was

690
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 2: Walt Harris, who predates Jim Harbaugh.

691
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: That was a bad era of Stanford football.

692
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 2: And immediately right they beat USC as forty point underdogs,

693
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 2: he takes them to the new year six BCS level

694
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 2: bowl level finds quarterbacks. Has found quarterbacks a little bit

695
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 2: less frequently at Michigan, arguably as relied on transfers, and

696
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 2: that hasn't always worked out in the long term. But nonetheless,

697
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 2: Jim Moham has taken teams two playoffs. He's gotten over

698
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 2: the individual and team hump of beating Ohio State and

699
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 2: winning the Big Ten, going to the playoff in consecutive seasons.

700
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 2: To me, it's a no brainer. Willy Fritz, though, Look,

701
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 2: beating USC in a bowl game a magical season for

702
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,280
Speaker 2: Tulane has a background on offense, but it's been developing

703
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 2: defensive players lately that's been really impressive. I give it

704
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:40,320
Speaker 2: to Willie Fritz in terms of credit, respect and being

705
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 2: among the nation's best coaches. But right now it's Jim Harbaugh. Yeah,

706
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 2: I think it's Jim Harball. They've both had a couple stops.

707
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 2: You're right about the Mineral Water Bowl.

708
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: Oh, thank god, back to his time at Central MISSOI

709
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:54,919
Speaker 1: back in two thousand and one, right around the turn

710
00:37:54,920 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: of the century. But Jim Harbaugh, I think you know.

711
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 1: I referenced it at the top with this awesome chart

712
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: that we got from our friends over at CFP. Read

713
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: it and they go through and again they're giving you

714
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,760
Speaker 1: the five year recruiting average. Michigan's fairly low in that list,

715
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 1: despite their recent success, despite winning the Big Ten two

716
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: years in a row, despite going to the playoff two

717
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: years in a row. They're thirteenth on this list over

718
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,320
Speaker 1: the last five years. That's behind Florida, behind Penn State,

719
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 1: Notre Dame, Oregon, Oklahoma, LSU, Texas, Clemson, A and m

720
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: Ohio State, Georgia. Obviously, Georgi and Alabama are kind of

721
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: the exceptions, as is Ohio State at this point, but

722
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 1: a lot of teams in front of them there that

723
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: have not had near the success that Jim Harbaugh has had,

724
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: and so I think that is definitely a testament too.

725
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 1: He is finding way to I don't want to say

726
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: do more with less, but he's finding a way to

727
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: maximize the talent that he has on hand. It's still

728
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: very good talent. They're still bringing great recruiting classes, but

729
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 1: he is getting a lot out of those recruits, and

730
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: I think that's meaningful. Also, if we're going to harken

731
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 1: back to the Ty Hilton brand emotional scale, Jim Harbaugh

732
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 1: alongside you in a bar fight is an interesting thing

733
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: to ponder. Cleats don't know what You're gonna get could

734
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 1: be a very introspective commentary on society. He could be

735
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 1: totally nuts. I don't know which version of Harball you

736
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 1: get in that type of scenario.

737
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 2: Oh, I can tell you exactly which there's no question

738
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 2: to me.

739
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:23,399
Speaker 1: You think you think he just loses it.

740
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:28,280
Speaker 2: If Jim Harbaugh could, he'd still be an active University.

741
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: Of Michigan football player. I agree.

742
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 2: All he wants to do is play football, think football,

743
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 2: live football, and be on a football team in a

744
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 2: football locker room. He's a football guy, tye as they

745
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 2: sapital g. Now, the interesting thing about Jim Harbaugh is

746
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 2: what a difference two years makes. I guess because a

747
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 2: couple of years ago, the narrative, the conversation around Jim

748
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 2: Harbaugh is is he ultimately a disappointment considering his record

749
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 2: against Ohio State and Michigan State. You look at this

750
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 2: rubric and I'm saying, how competitive are you against the

751
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,320
Speaker 2: teams on your schedule and the best teams on Michigan

752
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 2: schedule outside of Penn State. And best is relative, But

753
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 2: the teams that Michigan fans in the Michigan community most

754
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,240
Speaker 2: want to win are those Michigan State Ohio State games.

755
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 2: And he was a disappointment. And you go two years

756
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 2: later and you know he's I mean, he still lost

757
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 2: one of those to Michigan State. But it's it's a

758
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:28,760
Speaker 2: new world and so it's Jim Harbaugh. But fascinating that overall,

759
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 2: and look, he got to a Super Bowl two that

760
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 2: we're now talking about a new era of Jim Harbaugh

761
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,959
Speaker 2: Michigan football these last couple of years, because this would

762
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 2: be a more difficult conversation three or four years ago.

763
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: Let's move on to So we're gonna put Harba through, right,

764
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: And I think yes, we're both absolutely kind of an

765
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,359
Speaker 1: agreement on that front. Yeah, I mean lovemore hate him, Yep.

766
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: A fantastic football coach. This is a very interesting matchup,

767
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,359
Speaker 1: and not so much because I think there's any doubt

768
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 1: about who we're putting through, but I think the conversation

769
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 1: could go to a weird place. Okay, the number two

770
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: seed in the Midwest here is James Franklin. Okay, James Franklin.

771
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: Per Bruce Felman is the fifth best coaching college football. Yeah, which,

772
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,760
Speaker 1: as he mentioned in his article, receives more pushback perhaps

773
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:15,320
Speaker 1: at anything.

774
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 2: And he's been steadfast with that line of thinking. Bruce steadfast.

775
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, for as long as we've known him, he's

776
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: been in on Franklin. First round matchup here is against

777
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 1: the seventh seed in the Midwest. Mario Chrystball. Okay, I

778
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: put Crystal Ball in. He was not listed at all

779
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 1: on Bruce's bracket, so he was not one of the

780
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 1: top twenty five. He was not one of the top

781
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: thirty or thirty one based on the names that he listed.

782
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: But I threw Mario in. I didn't know where he

783
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 1: would be matched up here or against whom he would

784
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: be matched up and the auto bracket thing did it

785
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:55,919
Speaker 1: for me. Put it against James Franklin. So I don't

786
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: think there's really any debate here that it's James Franklin.

787
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 1: I think it's got to be James frank I think

788
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 1: so much of Mary Christabaal in his tenure as a

789
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:12,760
Speaker 1: coach at Oregon, at Miami, his tenure as an assistant

790
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,399
Speaker 1: coach everywhere he's been. Mary Cristabaal has definitely carved out

791
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,839
Speaker 1: this little reputation for himself where he's seen as a

792
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: big time recruiter, and for sure that holds up he

793
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 1: is able to attract talent. I think the promise of

794
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: Mary Cristaball as a top flight college football head coach,

795
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 1: that verdict is still out there. Man, I don't know

796
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 1: if we can say for sure that that he's ever

797
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: going to be a great coach, I don't know. That's

798
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,280
Speaker 1: not to say that James Franklin has been a great coach,

799
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: but James Franklin, I think, is accomplished way more and

800
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 1: it's still kind of in his prime of accomplishing things

801
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: at Penn State. Perhaps a big year incoming for the

802
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 1: Nitney Lyons in twenty twenty three. I don't know where

803
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: Miami's had it, you know, I mean they just fired

804
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: Josh Gaddis after one year. Clearly Year one did not

805
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 1: go well for crist of Ball, even going back home

806
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 1: to a place where you're supposed to be more familiar.

807
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: So I just feel like a lot of what we've

808
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: heard with Crystal Ball is the promise of greatness and

809
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 1: we've yet to really see it.

810
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 2: All Right, Who am I describing here? One in a

811
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 2: very difficult place to win, known as a terrific recruiter,

812
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,399
Speaker 2: won a bunch of games, but ultimately fans were left

813
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 2: pretty disappointed with offense and in game decision making. Hire

814
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 2: Joe moorehead. There's a lot of weird connective tissue known

815
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 2: for making shrewd assistant hires. Most of the time, not

816
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 2: all of the time. Is James Franklin a rich Man's

817
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 2: Mario Cristibal. It's an interesting hypothetical.

818
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:44,359
Speaker 1: I don't know.

819
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 2: I don't know, because Penn State fans on a certain

820
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 2: level have to respect the sustained, somewhat successful program that

821
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,720
Speaker 2: James Franklin has built, but in the way that Oregon

822
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 2: fans say, look, we loved winning a bunch of games,

823
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 2: but it wasn't always fun. I feel like Penn State

824
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 2: might have that with some of the recent offenses. Look,

825
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 2: Miami's offense this year catastrophic, Penn State's offense last year.

826
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 2: So the twenty twenty one season borderline catastrophe.

827
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 1: It was manager Yeah. After Sean Clifford got hurt, it

828
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 1: was catastrophic. Yeah.

829
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 2: And even with Sean Clifford, I think the full season

830
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 2: it was like ninety fifth in points per drive. Now

831
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,320
Speaker 2: that includes right an injured quarterback, so you got to

832
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 2: take that context into it, but that they have been

833
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 2: prone to some lows on offense, and James Franklin has

834
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 2: never had a quarterback even close to what Justin Herbert

835
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 2: was and could have been at that place. But still

836
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of overlap here. I'm giving

837
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 2: it to James Franklin. He's been there longer, he's been

838
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 2: successful longer. I don't think there are the same questions.

839
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 2: He's never had as low a season as Miami had

840
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 2: this year. This isn't but it's not Mario Christopher's roster.

841
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 1: It's not.

842
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 2: So I'm willing to forgive a little bit of that

843
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 2: because look, Mark Chryst of all, went went to the

844
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 2: Rose Bowl and won, went had some pretty high highs

845
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 2: at Oregon just in terms of results, just in terms

846
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 2: of winning percentage. But right now I'm giving it to

847
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 2: James Franklin because in this moment, sustaining something means something

848
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 2: to me, and Penn State is right there in the

849
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 2: present and has been so for longer.

850
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:28,879
Speaker 1: James Franklin also revived or started for the first time

851
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 1: the Vanderbilt Commodores Sure, which is not easy. No. By

852
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 1: the same for Christa Ball at FIU, by any stretch,

853
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 1: Crystal Ball is the only one of these two that

854
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 1: was fired. That move to fire him by FIU was

855
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: something that's been criticized of the course of time, but

856
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: both are I think there's a lot of connective tissues.

857
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 1: He said, I think you hit it best. Franklin's got

858
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,399
Speaker 1: to be the one who goes through though at Chapel Hill.

859
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 1: At Chapel Hill, I think I put Franklin. Okay, I

860
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: think so too in this moment, yep, Okay. Two more

861
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 1: interesting matchups here in the first round. Let's go to

862
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:11,879
Speaker 1: the three six Dave Clawson against Mike Norvell. So, now

863
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: that we've gotten down off of that top line and

864
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 1: the big dogs, we're starting to talk about some I

865
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: would say unsung heroes, or at least in the form

866
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 1: of Dave Clawson, who has done a lot in his

867
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: time at wake Forest. We deduct points for the slow mesh. Yes, no, no.

868
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 2: I say, do whatever it takes to win games. I'm

869
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 2: not deducting.

870
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 1: I think we deduct one, just a half point for

871
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: the slow mesh. But Dave cost against Mike Norvel dan

872
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:44,240
Speaker 1: mm hmm. Interesting matchup here.

873
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:50,439
Speaker 2: So Memphis won before Mike Norvell, yep, somewhat one after,

874
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:54,359
Speaker 2: not not as much. I think history has proven that

875
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 2: winning at wake Forest and Bowling Green is not for

876
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 2: the feint of hearts or faint of or there is

877
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 2: something about there is something bar rescue. We about Dave Clawson,

878
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:06,919
Speaker 2: who goes to Bowling Green with a down reputation after

879
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 2: his time at Tennessee, but the coffence works there, the

880
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 2: clof fense at Wake eleven.

881
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 1: Win Wake No eleven wins.

882
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, Mike Novell has been a very good coach. But

883
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:21,240
Speaker 2: in terms of degree of difficulty North Carolina in this moment,

884
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 2: especially with if we're going to give Dave Clawson credit

885
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 2: for knowing that state, recruiting that state, I think he

886
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 2: probably gets the nod after a disappointing start, but current

887
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 2: flourishing of Mike Norvell at Florida State, I'm giving Dave

888
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:41,319
Speaker 2: Clawson having that ability to win wherever more easily than

889
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 2: Mike Norvell.

890
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 1: At this moment, Dave Clawson has ninety one wins at

891
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 1: the FBS level. Mm hmm. He's been a coach for

892
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: a while, He's been around for a good long time.

893
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 1: As he said, he's got an interesting track record. Who

894
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,919
Speaker 1: would you rather have at North Carolina right now? Five

895
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 1: million dollars? You're going to give money to Dave Clawson

896
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 1: or Mike Norvel Because the reason I bring that up

897
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 1: is because Mike Norvell now after a bit of a

898
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 1: rocky start at Florida State seems to be trending in

899
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 1: a good direction. You and I are both pretty high

900
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,919
Speaker 1: on the Noles coming into twenty definitely. So if Mike

901
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 1: Norvell continues that success, if he continues to build that

902
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 1: program up and make them more of a threat, you

903
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 1: could argue the answer here would be Norvelle head to head.

904
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 2: It's been Wake these past couple of seasons. So there's that, Yeah,

905
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:37,280
Speaker 2: I'm blowing Coffins. I'm going with Wake and that ability

906
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 2: to win at North Carol. I'm going, sorry, going with

907
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:41,919
Speaker 2: Dave Clawson and that ability to win in Chapel Hill

908
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 2: right now. I think with more resources and the ability

909
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 2: to fight like this is not Jordan Travis is not

910
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 2: Mike Norvell's quarterback, right whereas Sam Hartman before was Dave

911
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 2: Clawson's quarterback. Like, I think there is something about identifying

912
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 2: and then so if you're not Carolina, you're gonna have

913
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 2: the ability to swim in a bigger lake, a bigger sea,

914
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 2: whatever in terms of the quarterbacks you can attract to

915
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 2: that school. As we've seen now, I think I'm going, yeah,

916
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 2: I'm going claws in here.

917
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 1: I sort of disagree with you. I probably feel better

918
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:21,439
Speaker 1: about Clausen than Norvel, But this is the first one

919
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 1: that I think.

920
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:24,319
Speaker 2: Do you think Klawson is a cute story, you can

921
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 2: be honest. A cute story, yeah, a cute story, but

922
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 2: not an impressive story like it's cute A big one

923
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 2: at Wake Forest, No, no, no, But when you get

924
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:35,959
Speaker 2: to the big boys, I trust Norvel.

925
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 1: I don't know if I trust Norvel to that level

926
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 1: more than Clawson. Yeah, I think. No, I don't feel

927
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 1: like it's a cute story with Dave Clauson. I think

928
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 1: it's been. It's a cute story, is a flash in

929
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 1: the pan. A cute story is an underdog story for

930
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:55,399
Speaker 1: one season and then they go back to relative anonymity.

931
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 1: But this has not been a one and done type

932
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 1: thing for Dave class and Dave Clawson has done a

933
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 1: really good job at Wake for us. It took him

934
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: a while to build this program up. He's had NFL

935
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 1: caliber talent move through there at various positions. It's not

936
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 1: like Sam Hartman or bus Right, So this has been

937
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 1: a little bit deeper than maybe most would realize. I

938
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 1: think I'll give it to Clawson. I do think though,

939
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 1: that this will be a pivotal year. This would be

940
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: a very interesting year. If we come back a year

941
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 1: from now and have this conversation Norvell versus Clawson, if

942
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,439
Speaker 1: we would feel differently because we're going to see what

943
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 1: Wake looks like without Sam Hartman, and we're going to

944
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 1: see what year three. I guess it's year three of

945
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 1: Norvelle or year four, whatever it is for him at

946
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 1: Florida State with Jordan Travis, with a program that seems

947
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 1: like it's aligned finally and moving in a good direction.

948
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 1: This one feels to me like we might change your

949
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:49,360
Speaker 1: mind a year from now, but I'll go with Clawson

950
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:49,719
Speaker 1: for now.

951
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 2: The only thing is Wake has struggled to figure out defense.

952
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 2: I won't say, I won't say full on catastrophic, but

953
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 2: it's more like seventy fourth, eighty ninth type best defense

954
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 2: in the country, where you're going to be prone to

955
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 2: losing a little too much in the way of shootouts

956
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 2: that I'm not comfortable with. Whereas Florida State has steadily

957
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 2: improved on both sides of the ball, it has seemed

958
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 2: and different place, different ability to recruit to Winston Salem

959
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 2: than it is to recruit to Tallahassee. But that's what

960
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:23,799
Speaker 2: I would hold against Dave Clausen right now, that he

961
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 2: is a coach built for a place like Wake Forest,

962
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 2: and that Mike Norvell might have a higher ceiling at

963
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:31,240
Speaker 2: a bigger place.

964
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:33,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get that. And as you said, I mean

965
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 1: the recruiting at Florida State obviously it's not really even

966
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,399
Speaker 1: in the same class as Wake Forest, whether you're talking

967
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 1: about recruits coming out of high school or just transfers.

968
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:44,919
Speaker 1: I mean, m hmm. Look at what Florida State did

969
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 1: on the transfer market the last two years. They've been

970
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:50,839
Speaker 1: very aggressive and that's helped. It's helped in a big way.

971
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 1: This might be the most fascinating first round matchup that

972
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 1: we have to discuss here, all right. Here we have

973
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 1: a West the number four seed against the number five seed,

974
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:03,800
Speaker 1: Risk Kleiman, who Bruce Feldman has as his thirteenth overall

975
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 1: coach Okay, squaring off against the one the only Sunny

976
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:13,359
Speaker 1: Dikes National runner up this past season. Bruce has him

977
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 1: at number twenty. It is almost unheard of that a

978
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 1: first year coach, or at least first year at a

979
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:24,359
Speaker 1: new place coach in Sunny Dike's goes in the type

980
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: of run that he goes on. We're not talking about

981
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:30,359
Speaker 1: taking over Alabama after Saban or taking over Georgia after

982
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:34,240
Speaker 1: Kirby Spart We're talking about taking over a program left

983
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 1: by Gary Patterson kind of for dead. It was for

984
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 1: sure treading water. Sunny Dykes takes it over, gets the

985
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 1: most out of the same players. As we've joked timon

986
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:47,760
Speaker 1: against I love to say, impressively, goes on a run,

987
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 1: gets to the playoff, gets to the championship, got destroyed

988
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 1: in the championship. But the fact that they got there

989
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: at all was incredible. It was it was historic in

990
00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 1: its own right. So I clearly won the Big twelve time,

991
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:04,759
Speaker 1: nearly nearly won the Big twelve. We've got two Big

992
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 1: twelve coaches here, between Chris Cleman and Sunny Dykes. I

993
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 1: am sort of infatuated with Chris Cleman. Okay, I love

994
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:20,799
Speaker 1: Chris Clemon. Chris Climban came over from North Dakota State,

995
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 1: had a lot of success that North Dakota State. Followed

996
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: his old athletic director to Manhattan, Kansas. He is consistent.

997
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 1: He seems like, if you want to talk about guys

998
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 1: who get the most out of their talent more with less,

999
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:37,840
Speaker 1: that is very much Chris Climan's story that is very

1000
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 1: much why they brought him to Manhattan, Kansas. He is

1001
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 1: very good at doing that. I think this is a

1002
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:46,240
Speaker 1: situation for him where it is a very slow build.

1003
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:48,439
Speaker 1: They're going to give him time to build it. There's

1004
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:51,359
Speaker 1: not an immense amount of pressure on him to turn

1005
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:55,919
Speaker 1: out a national championship caliber, a playoff caliber team. They

1006
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 1: just want the floor to be raised from where it

1007
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:00,879
Speaker 1: was previously, and he is ever so slightly doing that.

1008
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:04,440
Speaker 1: Chris climb Ins Kansas State Wildcats have been a pain

1009
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,480
Speaker 1: in the ass, a pain in the ass the last

1010
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:09,919
Speaker 1: couple of seasons. I just don't want to play them

1011
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:13,839
Speaker 1: because they're fundamentally sound. All they need are a few playmakers.

1012
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:15,800
Speaker 1: They know what they're doing out there, and they're always

1013
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 1: well organized. They're not beating themselves. When they beat themselves,

1014
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 1: that's when they lose. But more often than not, they're

1015
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 1: not doing that. You're always getting a really good game

1016
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:27,319
Speaker 1: out of them. Sunny Dikes. Despite the fact that he

1017
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:32,279
Speaker 1: had an incredible season this past year for TCU excuse me,

1018
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:34,399
Speaker 1: which will go down in the history books, we also

1019
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:35,720
Speaker 1: have the Caliars for some Dikes.

1020
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 2: The most of the team has ever been blown out

1021
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 2: in a national tim that's right, that's right.

1022
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's probably a conversation we need to have about

1023
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:45,920
Speaker 1: the Cal years for Sunny Dikes that you could probably

1024
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 1: speak to more than I can't. I think I put

1025
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 1: climb in through. I think Climban is my guy here,

1026
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 1: just because again, he feels rock solid, he feels steady.

1027
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,759
Speaker 1: You could put him at almost any situation and I

1028
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 1: think he would find a way to organize the troops

1029
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 1: put a quality product out there. Sunny Dyke feels a

1030
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:06,240
Speaker 1: little bit more boom or busty to me, and that's fine.

1031
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 1: He made it to a national championship, but I would

1032
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 1: if I'm giving my money to somebody, I think I

1033
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 1: go climbing.

1034
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:17,479
Speaker 2: So I think he did an above average job at CAL.

1035
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 2: That's just a very difficult place to win. You can

1036
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:22,360
Speaker 2: build half teams at CAL, sort of like Justin Wilcox

1037
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 2: has done on defense. He was good at SMU. They

1038
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 2: had one really good season, but they were sort of

1039
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 2: an eight ish win team at SMU. Was the correct

1040
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 2: hire for TCU and had an incredible year. Chris Climate,

1041
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,360
Speaker 2: on the other hand, I think there's just going to

1042
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 2: be less talent available to play at Kansas State and

1043
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:49,360
Speaker 2: has been very, very good, and he looked at a

1044
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:52,719
Speaker 2: five foot five gentlemen smaller in every way. The co

1045
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 2: host of this very show, Ty Hildenbrand, okay, and said, yeah,

1046
00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 2: we can figure something out.

1047
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 1: And then you cut. Let's build the whole offense out

1048
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: of this tiny individual.

1049
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 2: Right, that's crazy. And then you have this magical season

1050
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 2: for TCU, and what's the roadblock.

1051
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:11,879
Speaker 1: Well, it's Kansas State.

1052
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:14,359
Speaker 2: It's Kansas State, and they didn't have as good a

1053
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:18,440
Speaker 2: season as TCU overall, but they beat him in the

1054
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:20,960
Speaker 2: Big Twelve championship game to win the conference. So I'm

1055
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 2: given to Chris Climbon right now just because the highs

1056
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 2: have been higher for Sunny Dikes. Beating Michigan in that

1057
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 2: playoff game incredible, just stupendous. But Chris Climbing right now,

1058
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 2: I've seen more, I believe more. Even if you thought

1059
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:40,000
Speaker 2: Asian Martinezz also going to be the answer that quarterback

1060
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:41,920
Speaker 2: when most certainly was not going to be.

1061
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:44,479
Speaker 1: Look, I mean, I think both are obviously very good coaches,

1062
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 1: that's why they're on this list to begin with. But

1063
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:49,200
Speaker 1: do you recall what one of the biggest selling points

1064
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:54,880
Speaker 1: was about Sunny Dike's taking over that job at TCU offense. No,

1065
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 1: not just offense, but his familiability, familiarity to the state

1066
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 1: of Texas. Yeah, it could be that Dykes is a

1067
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:03,359
Speaker 1: Texas guy. It could be that those skills aren't as

1068
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:05,759
Speaker 1: transferable outside the great state of Texas, which he knows

1069
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:08,799
Speaker 1: and loves and is really really successful at coaching in

1070
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:14,240
Speaker 1: the climate. Was at North Dakota State Climban's now obviously

1071
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 1: in Manhattan, Kansas. I get the strong sense that you

1072
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 1: could put this guy pretty much anywhere, put him on Mars,

1073
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 1: and you'd find a way to win. Sure, just knows

1074
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 1: how to do it. And so for that reasons, for

1075
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 1: that reason, excuse me, I'm going climbing.

1076
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:28,280
Speaker 2: He's also now to be clear on climb if you're

1077
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 2: going to take anything away from him. What we are

1078
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 2: recognizing as his recent success is taking over a national

1079
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 2: championship caliber program and winning national championships, right, and then

1080
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 2: taking over for a legend in Bill Snyder, the greatest

1081
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 2: coach of all time. There's a statue of the stadium

1082
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 2: is named.

1083
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 1: After him, named after him, Bill Snyder Family Stadium.

1084
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 2: And continuing right, he didn't necessarily build upon the winning

1085
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 2: the Big Twelve is a big deal obviously, but that

1086
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 2: he hasn't had to and this is his program now,

1087
00:57:57,440 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 2: this is he's not winning with somebody else's players. This

1088
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 2: is his program that he's succeeding with. But the knock

1089
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 2: on him would be that would be that, yes, the

1090
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 2: infrastructure has been in place wherever he's been at these

1091
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 2: past couple schools, Whereas the challenge that Sunny Dyke's had

1092
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 2: at CAL was something that Chris Climban never had. You

1093
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 2: can't hold it against Chris Climbing, but that's a different

1094
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 2: kind of challenge. Where SMU was was a different kind

1095
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 2: of challenge. Now where TCU was was sort of a

1096
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:26,479
Speaker 2: disastrous place. But I think it's such a major part

1097
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:29,920
Speaker 2: of coaching is roster construction and maintenance, and we just

1098
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 2: we don't have that right now with Sunny Dikes at

1099
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:35,240
Speaker 2: his current place and at his last place it was

1100
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 2: fine but nothing crazy. So I'm giving it to Climbing

1101
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 2: right now.

1102
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 1: What I like about this matchup is we can see

1103
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 1: it on the field. Yeah, absolutely, we can see it

1104
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 1: on the field, all right, James Franklin against Dave Claus

1105
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:52,920
Speaker 1: and Dan this is a fascinating matchup at North Carolina. Yeah,

1106
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 1: I'm still going to say roster construction and maintenance. I'm

1107
00:58:55,600 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 1: going to say James Franklin. Man. That's what's hard for

1108
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 1: me to override as a Penn Stater is this feeling

1109
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 1: that James Franklin should be doing better, and I don't.

1110
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's even reality, you know. I mean,

1111
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,959
Speaker 1: he's on the same side or been on the same

1112
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 1: side of the conference as Ohio State and Michigan, and

1113
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 1: so it's it's always going to be tough to get

1114
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 1: one up on those two schools, especially given where they're at.

1115
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 1: He has left a lot out there on occasion. I think,

1116
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 1: by and large, has been a very successful campaign for Franklin.

1117
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 1: I'm not one of the Franklin haters. The costing thing

1118
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 1: to me, winning at Wake Forest in the way that

1119
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:46,000
Speaker 1: he has has been damn impressive. I think I still

1120
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 1: probably take Franklin. Franklin's ability to recruit at a really

1121
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 1: high level and his ability to hire at a really

1122
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 1: high level. Those skills are transferable no matter where you are.

1123
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:56,960
Speaker 1: Right you could take him again. You wanna talk about

1124
00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:58,440
Speaker 1: putting a guy on Mars, he could put Franklin on

1125
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 1: Mars and he'd recruit guys to Mars m HM, you'd

1126
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 1: find a way to do it. So I put Franklin

1127
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:02,760
Speaker 1: through as well.

1128
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:05,320
Speaker 2: I think the defenses are the difference maker to me

1129
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 2: as well, I think it's talent level and defenses. And

1130
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:12,080
Speaker 2: in a conference that is now I apologize if I'm

1131
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 2: forgetting anybody, but there have been three playoff teams that

1132
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 2: have come out of the Big ten Michigan, Michigan State,

1133
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:21,360
Speaker 2: Ohio State, YEP, and one out of the ACC. Is

1134
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 2: my math correct that only Clemson has made the playoff

1135
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 2: from the ACCP. I believe that to be the case,

1136
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 2: So a more difficult path at Penn State.

1137
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:30,479
Speaker 1: I think he would.

1138
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 2: I think that's kind of a no brainer just in

1139
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:34,360
Speaker 2: terms of the roster construction of what he would bring there.

1140
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:37,760
Speaker 2: To North Carolina, I would go James Franklin, and I

1141
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 2: honestly wouldn't think about it for very long.

1142
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 1: Chris Climban versus Jim Harbaugh.

1143
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:48,840
Speaker 2: Okay, so Jim Harbor has had more success. Jim Harby

1144
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 2: has taking a team to a Super Bowl. Jim Harbaugh

1145
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:53,880
Speaker 2: has been at a place that has traditionally been pretty

1146
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:57,120
Speaker 2: down with football in Stanford and one there.

1147
01:00:57,200 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 1: Jim Harbaugh has not won an FCS national championship.

1148
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 2: He's not won an FCS national championship, although has FCS

1149
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:09,480
Speaker 2: coaching experience. Right, San Diego is a FCS team. The

1150
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:13,280
Speaker 2: case for Climban is more theoretical that you are in

1151
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 2: for a more stable experience. I think with Chris Climan

1152
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:20,320
Speaker 2: that the lows will be I think there's a higher floor,

1153
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:24,040
Speaker 2: so the lows will be higher. To me, that there

1154
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 2: is not going to be this constant threat of a

1155
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:30,200
Speaker 2: program in flux like there is at Michigan at times,

1156
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:33,320
Speaker 2: replacing coordinators, threat of the NFL, like that's not going

1157
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 2: to exist. But again, if your coach isn't a threat

1158
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:38,960
Speaker 2: to leave to the NFL, then maybe your coach isn't

1159
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 2: as good. So I'm gonna go Jim Harbaugh here over

1160
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:42,920
Speaker 2: Chris Climan.

1161
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 1: I think I think Harbaugh's the answer. Yeah, And even

1162
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:50,520
Speaker 1: though I think we want to view this through a

1163
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 1: strictly a strict lens of coaching ability, we also need

1164
01:01:57,560 --> 01:02:03,760
Speaker 1: to consider star power, sure name recognition. Jim Harbaugh's got

1165
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:07,680
Speaker 1: name recognition, He's got a reputation that precedes him. Chris

1166
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:11,720
Speaker 1: climb has been a very successful coach, but I feel

1167
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:14,280
Speaker 1: like Jim Harbaugh's just is always gonna have an easier

1168
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 1: time recruiting in the same way that Nick Saban. You

1169
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:19,520
Speaker 1: put Nick Saban in the living room of a defensive

1170
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:22,680
Speaker 1: back kid, it'd be crazy enough to go to Alabama.

1171
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:25,640
Speaker 1: Nick Saban's got that track record. I think you gotta

1172
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 1: go Harball here. I love Chris Climbing. I would love

1173
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:29,720
Speaker 1: to find a way to put him through.

1174
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 2: By the way, if if you gave Jim Harbaugh the

1175
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:35,200
Speaker 2: North Carolina roster, and you gave him two years, I

1176
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:36,280
Speaker 2: think he'd have him in the playoff.

1177
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 1: I could see that.

1178
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 2: I mean, given who they have at quarterback right now,

1179
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:45,400
Speaker 2: if you gave him Drake May in the ability to

1180
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:48,960
Speaker 2: overhaul that defensive roster and hire his own coaching staff

1181
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 2: at North Carolina two years, maybe three, they're in the playoff,

1182
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:56,760
Speaker 2: but I guess Drake May won't be there in three years.

1183
01:02:56,760 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 1: But still, would you rather have Drake May or JJ

1184
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:02,920
Speaker 1: McCarthy the Drake May. They got to take Drake May, right,

1185
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:06,440
Speaker 1: That got to be Drake May? Okay? Yeah? Absolutely? Final

1186
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 1: in the Midwest. Then game we've seen before, it's Jim Harball,

1187
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 1: it's James Franklin. I think the ANSWER's got to be

1188
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:16,280
Speaker 1: Jim Harbaugh, right, I think.

1189
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 2: So we've seen lower lows at Michigan. We have, which

1190
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:25,600
Speaker 2: is important. We've seen some questionable hires at Michigan, he

1191
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:30,240
Speaker 2: seems some questionable hires at at Penn State. I think

1192
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 2: I'm still taking Michigan.

1193
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:35,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got Now, if you get to this game,

1194
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 1: if you were talking about the Midwestern Bracket final, the

1195
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:44,200
Speaker 1: Elite eight, and you want to put a coach through,

1196
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:49,000
Speaker 1: you've got to prove that you've you've done something. Saban's easy,

1197
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 1: Saban's done everything. But there's only one of the two

1198
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:58,360
Speaker 1: coaches here that at least given recent success, is the answer,

1199
01:03:58,360 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 1: and that's Jim Harbaugh. He has won the Big ten

1200
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:01,040
Speaker 1: consecutive years.

1201
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:03,960
Speaker 2: Do you think the best James Franklin Penn State team

1202
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 2: would beat the best Michigan Harbought team? So you're going

1203
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:12,240
Speaker 2: back trace McSorley, sequon a bunch of good receivers, Mike Oseeki.

1204
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 2: I don't know when everybody overlapped some really really good

1205
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:20,360
Speaker 2: We're talking about Igo what was his name, Gross Matos?

1206
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:24,280
Speaker 2: Talk to me about Matos, Yeah, YGM. I don't know

1207
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:26,320
Speaker 2: if he's the best defensive lineman James frankl has had,

1208
01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:30,200
Speaker 2: but they had some dudes who got after offenses, got

1209
01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:33,800
Speaker 2: after quarterbacks. They've had some incredible pass rushers and Micah Parsons. Like,

1210
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:37,200
Speaker 2: the level of talent has been incredible at Penn State

1211
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:39,280
Speaker 2: on defense, not to say it's also been incredible at Michigan,

1212
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:43,520
Speaker 2: of course, but the best Penn State team, whenever that

1213
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 2: was against the best Michigan team, I'm still taking Michigan.

1214
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:53,000
Speaker 1: I think I think Michigan because of the defense. You know,

1215
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:56,840
Speaker 1: let's put it this way. For Penn State to beat

1216
01:04:56,880 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 1: Ohio State, which happens once in a blue moon, that's

1217
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 1: a big deal. That's a national championship in and of itself.

1218
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:05,720
Speaker 1: That is also true at Michigan. Michigan's just done it

1219
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:09,600
Speaker 1: two consecutive years, and they've made the playoff two consecutive years.

1220
01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:12,680
Speaker 1: They've won the conference two consecutive years. You could argue

1221
01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:16,320
Speaker 1: that Jim Harbaugh is getting better. Jim Harbaugh is starting

1222
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:19,680
Speaker 1: to figure this thing out. We've talked a lot about

1223
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 1: in recent months here about Josh Gaddis in his time

1224
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:27,240
Speaker 1: at Michigan and now recently his his short lived stay

1225
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:30,160
Speaker 1: at Miami. By the way, he got hired by Maryland

1226
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:34,320
Speaker 1: since the time we last recorded. But you know, I

1227
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:38,240
Speaker 1: think there was always this idea with bringing a guy

1228
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:40,720
Speaker 1: like Gaddis aboard that he was going to revolutionize the offense.

1229
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:42,400
Speaker 1: He's going to change things around, he's going to make

1230
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:44,200
Speaker 1: it better, it's going to be more wide open. And

1231
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:47,120
Speaker 1: you know, he's there for a bit and he kind

1232
01:05:47,120 --> 01:05:50,080
Speaker 1: of did it to a degree, but ultimately it's turned

1233
01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:53,560
Speaker 1: into kind of a hybrid of what Harball was doing

1234
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:56,240
Speaker 1: before with some new concepts. Right, it's not all that.

1235
01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 1: It's different enough, but it's not so drastically different that

1236
01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:03,880
Speaker 1: it feels like night and day. I think Harbaugh's ability

1237
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:06,560
Speaker 1: to kind of stick to his roots in a sense,

1238
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:10,400
Speaker 1: but also be creative and move the needle, move, move

1239
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:14,720
Speaker 1: the needle forward, move move, sure, add steam to the balloon,

1240
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:17,120
Speaker 1: what have you. His ability to build kind of on

1241
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:20,600
Speaker 1: previous success and stay true to his roots is in

1242
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:23,560
Speaker 1: and of itself kind of impressive. I put Jim Harball through.

1243
01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:30,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jim Harbaugh and Michigan's twenty twenty two season I

1244
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:32,800
Speaker 2: think was so was I think it was twenty seventeen. Yep,

1245
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:35,200
Speaker 2: that would have been the Saquan Rose Bowl year for

1246
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:39,080
Speaker 2: Penn State. So both the twenty sixteen Michigan team and

1247
01:06:39,160 --> 01:06:42,400
Speaker 2: the twenty two twenty two Michigan team finished better in

1248
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:45,640
Speaker 2: terms of net points per drive in the same conference. Right,

1249
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:48,160
Speaker 2: so offensive points per drive minus defensive points per drive.

1250
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 2: So if we're saying two Michigan teams were better than

1251
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 2: the best of Penn State in the last six seven years,

1252
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 2: I think I'm going Harbaugh Michigan here.

1253
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:00,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the other I think easy. Your argument

1254
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:02,560
Speaker 1: to make is we're going to talk about recruiting, right,

1255
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:05,560
Speaker 1: You're you're correct and saying that the talent on hand

1256
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:07,680
Speaker 1: at Penn State has been phenomenal. The talent on hand,

1257
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:09,680
Speaker 1: per this chart that we got from our friends over

1258
01:07:09,720 --> 01:07:14,640
Speaker 1: at college Football Reddit, has Penn State eleventh on this list. Right,

1259
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:18,800
Speaker 1: Michigan is below Penn State and arguably has done more

1260
01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:21,080
Speaker 1: in the last five years. Definitely has done more in

1261
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:23,200
Speaker 1: the last five years. So I think Harbaugh's the answer.

1262
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:26,640
Speaker 1: Yep with you. Why don't we do this. Let's round

1263
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:31,600
Speaker 1: out our final coach between the South and the Midwest bracket.

1264
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:35,800
Speaker 1: We can come back and finish this thing out on Thursday,

1265
01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:39,400
Speaker 1: when the NCAA tournament actually does kick off. That brings

1266
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:44,120
Speaker 1: us to Nick Saban against Jim Harbaugh. Dan, Hmmm, good matchup,

1267
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:48,240
Speaker 1: high profile matchup here between the greatest college football coach

1268
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:53,440
Speaker 1: of all time and Nick Saban. Yeah and Jim Harbaugh. Yeah,

1269
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:57,720
Speaker 1: So we have to put Saban through. Saban has to

1270
01:07:57,800 --> 01:08:00,040
Speaker 1: be the guy who goes through here. But if you

1271
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:02,600
Speaker 1: are constructing an argument for Jim Harbaugh, what does that

1272
01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:02,960
Speaker 1: look like.

1273
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:10,840
Speaker 2: He's taken an NFL team to a super Bowl. So

1274
01:08:10,960 --> 01:08:15,040
Speaker 2: there's that he was able to succeed at a traditionally

1275
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:18,639
Speaker 2: average to below average place like Stanford, where Nick Saban

1276
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:21,160
Speaker 2: has never proven it, depending on how you feel about

1277
01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:24,080
Speaker 2: the Miami Elephants, and even then they were.

1278
01:08:23,960 --> 01:08:24,880
Speaker 1: Five hundred team. Right.

1279
01:08:25,439 --> 01:08:29,240
Speaker 2: Uh, there's not much you can do in terms of

1280
01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 2: a case unless you want to look at the North

1281
01:08:31,320 --> 01:08:33,320
Speaker 2: Carolina job and say that Jim Harbaugh would do a

1282
01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:37,639
Speaker 2: better job, that he's much more of a chopped chef

1283
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:41,080
Speaker 2: than an iron chef chef, that he could do better

1284
01:08:41,160 --> 01:08:45,519
Speaker 2: with lesser ingredients than Nick Saban could, that he's gotten

1285
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:47,920
Speaker 2: a little bit jobbying his time at Alabama and LSU.

1286
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:50,160
Speaker 1: It's just so it's just so hard to kind of

1287
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:54,880
Speaker 1: go through those mental gymnastics, because of course anywhere Saban goes,

1288
01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:56,960
Speaker 1: people are going to want to follow. He's the greatest

1289
01:08:57,000 --> 01:08:59,720
Speaker 1: coach of all time. So it's like you can't even

1290
01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:02,920
Speaker 1: make that argument against him. Anywhere he goes. He can

1291
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:07,320
Speaker 1: take about any program, any program, and he would have

1292
01:09:07,360 --> 01:09:10,880
Speaker 1: an instant gravitas and ability to attract talent. But better

1293
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:15,599
Speaker 1: NFL coach Jim harbaught much better NFL coach. Yeah, which

1294
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:17,320
Speaker 1: is not an NFL podcast, So.

1295
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:21,560
Speaker 2: Whatever that means, that means. But overall, Jim Harba is

1296
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:25,280
Speaker 2: going to attract talent he has. Nick Saban has done

1297
01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:28,400
Speaker 2: the most with the most. Jim Harbaugh has done a

1298
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:32,960
Speaker 2: ton with less. Do I think if you gave Nick

1299
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:36,560
Speaker 2: Saban top twelve, top eight recruiting classes like Michigan and

1300
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:39,840
Speaker 2: Harbor have had, that he would win national championships Probably? Yeah,

1301
01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:43,400
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna say Nick Saban in this one.

1302
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:47,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. As Bruce says, this one is easy, he puts

1303
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:51,080
Speaker 1: Sabin one. Overall, he's wonted remarkable seven national titles as

1304
01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 1: teams have finished in the top eight fourteen of the

1305
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:57,360
Speaker 1: past fifteen years, which is hard to do, man, it

1306
01:09:57,439 --> 01:09:59,360
Speaker 1: is hard to do. We're used to hearing the same

1307
01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:01,400
Speaker 1: teams at the time, and of course Alabama is one

1308
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:04,160
Speaker 1: of them. But if you look outside of that lead

1309
01:10:04,280 --> 01:10:11,599
Speaker 1: pack of Alabama and Georgia Ohio State, we can put

1310
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:15,840
Speaker 1: Clemson in there. Yeah, if you look outside that lead pack,

1311
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:18,200
Speaker 1: it is hard to be consistent in college football. It

1312
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:19,760
Speaker 1: is hard to be consistent. You have a lot of

1313
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:21,519
Speaker 1: the same teams that are kind of hovering in the

1314
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:24,840
Speaker 1: top twenty. But to produce at that high level year

1315
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:27,160
Speaker 1: in a year out, it's just there's a reason he's

1316
01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:28,720
Speaker 1: the greatest of all time. It's unheard of to do

1317
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:29,280
Speaker 1: what he's done.

1318
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:33,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jim Harbaugh's probably number three in this moment somewhere

1319
01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:35,880
Speaker 2: like that. He's up there in this moment, in this

1320
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:39,040
Speaker 2: moment because of Clemson's recent struggles. But it's a conversation.

1321
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:43,600
Speaker 2: Maybe he's four, but yeah, it's you know, that'll be

1322
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:45,360
Speaker 2: a question for another day. If you're North Carolina, you

1323
01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:49,720
Speaker 2: want to pay Dabbo, you want to play Harbaugh. I

1324
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:52,160
Speaker 2: think it's a relatively easy answer. But still at the

1325
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:55,400
Speaker 2: same time, I took a second to think about just

1326
01:10:55,479 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 2: because of what Harbaugh has accomplished overall, and that body

1327
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:04,600
Speaker 2: of work is pretty incredible, but just not as incredible

1328
01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:05,920
Speaker 2: as the best guy of all time.

1329
01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:10,320
Speaker 1: We've got sixteen coaches left that we will talk through

1330
01:11:10,920 --> 01:11:14,760
Speaker 1: on the Thursday episode. The winner of those sixteen is

1331
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:18,120
Speaker 1: going to square off against Nick Saban. There are certain

1332
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:21,280
Speaker 1: coaches that we have not discussed at all. I think

1333
01:11:21,320 --> 01:11:24,320
Speaker 1: you know where this conversation is going. But some big

1334
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:28,920
Speaker 1: names in the East and Southeast brackets. Dabo Sweeney, Ryan Day,

1335
01:11:29,439 --> 01:11:34,000
Speaker 1: Scott Leffler, Scott leff of course, Kirby Smart, Lincoln Riley,

1336
01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:38,639
Speaker 1: some big, big time names here that you know. Kirby

1337
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:42,360
Speaker 1: is obviously the easy name to throw out given recent success,

1338
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:45,040
Speaker 1: but I don't know. Kirby against Ryan Day could be

1339
01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:45,879
Speaker 1: an interesting matchup.

1340
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:48,519
Speaker 2: Can I ask you two? Name is Brent Venables in

1341
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:49,000
Speaker 2: this side?

1342
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:51,559
Speaker 1: Brent Vanables is not on the list at all? Is

1343
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:52,760
Speaker 1: Marcus Freeman? No?

1344
01:11:53,439 --> 01:11:54,080
Speaker 2: Dan Lanning?

1345
01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:59,599
Speaker 1: No interesting? Yeah, this is based on Bruce's totally understand

1346
01:11:59,680 --> 01:12:02,120
Speaker 1: and there's no body of work for any of those guys.

1347
01:12:02,200 --> 01:12:05,760
Speaker 1: That's the problem. Yeah, with the body of work. With

1348
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:07,840
Speaker 1: the body of work, maybe we can do a separate

1349
01:12:07,880 --> 01:12:11,479
Speaker 1: bracket with the you know, the limited experience bracket.

1350
01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:13,479
Speaker 2: But PJ and the Fleck Tones are they on there?

1351
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:16,720
Speaker 1: Pjfleck is a first round matchup with Ryan day Oh,

1352
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:24,439
Speaker 1: which is interesting. Nothing at Western Michigan. Yeah, more interesting Dan,

1353
01:12:24,520 --> 01:12:28,040
Speaker 1: This is fun. We will continue the conversation on our

1354
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:31,040
Speaker 1: next episode. We encourage everybody to stop on back. Fill

1355
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:34,080
Speaker 1: out your brackets. Email us soliverbletgmail dot com. Let us

1356
01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:36,040
Speaker 1: know what we got right, what we got wrong. H

1357
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:39,880
Speaker 1: don't forget to follow along on social media and check

1358
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:46,040
Speaker 1: out the YouTube channel at soliverble dot com slash YouTube.

1359
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:47,600
Speaker 1: We'll get you over there, or you can just go

1360
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:50,680
Speaker 1: to YouTube dot com slash at Soliverble and we'll get

1361
01:12:50,720 --> 01:12:53,760
Speaker 1: you there as well. Both places will work. Hit subscribe,

1362
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:56,080
Speaker 1: make sure you head on over to quick Slants that

1363
01:12:56,160 --> 01:12:58,519
Speaker 1: soliverble dot com. That is the weekly newsletter that we

1364
01:12:58,560 --> 01:13:00,720
Speaker 1: send out to keep you up to date with all

1365
01:13:00,960 --> 01:13:06,360
Speaker 1: things college football Dan every Thursday. Agree for that guy there,

1366
01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:09,479
Speaker 1: my good friend Dan Rubinstein. For my self, Tie hilden Brand,

1367
01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:11,920
Speaker 1: thanks so much for downloading, for listening, for playing a

1368
01:13:11,920 --> 01:13:14,680
Speaker 1: long hour bracket game at home. We will talk to

1369
01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:16,920
Speaker 1: you all on Thursday. Say something peace,