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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who

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Speaker 1: Did Cool Stuff your podcast that reminds you when there's

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Speaker 1: people doing bad things, there's people trying to do good things,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes the people who are try and do good

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Speaker 1: things have bad things happen to them, but then they

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Speaker 1: go somewhere else and then they keep doing good things.

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Speaker 1: That's always what the show's about, including this week. And

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Speaker 1: my guest is Cody Johnston, who we've never had on

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Speaker 1: this show, and this surprises me. How are you?

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Speaker 2: I'm good, Thank you so much for having me for

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Speaker 2: the first time. I'm excited to be here. I love

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Speaker 2: the concept of the show. Thanks something we need more

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Speaker 2: and more of.

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Speaker 1: We do need more people doing cool things. And then also, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like being reminded that there's a point to fighting even

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Speaker 1: when we lose all the time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: They're gonna win at the end of this one. Actually,

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Speaker 1: but spoilers all right, Yeah, spoilers for that. The bio

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Speaker 1: I wrote for you is host of some More News

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Speaker 1: and one of the best shit posters left on Twitter.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much. I've internalized that. I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: let that cook and warm me up a little bit.

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Speaker 1: It was like an hour ago, right before I recorded that,

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, there's Cody doing an antagonistic reply

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Speaker 1: guy to shitty people.

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Speaker 2: I did literally just tell Denesh Desuza to shit in

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Speaker 2: his own mouth. Yeah that was so that's accurate description. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's about it. That's what I do. Yeah, I'm slowly

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Speaker 2: leaving Twitter because it's really bad.

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Speaker 1: That's what we all say.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I'm trying to keep it to just

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Speaker 2: that and like I'll post on like blue Sky or

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Speaker 2: some things, but like, you can only yell at people

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Speaker 2: on Twitter.

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Speaker 1: That's true, you know.

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Speaker 2: So I can try to focus on that when I'm

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Speaker 2: there and then actual posts elsewhere.

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Speaker 1: But play to the strength of the platform exactly. It's

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Speaker 1: the everything appens got everything. Yeah, it can be mean

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Speaker 1: to people. Sharene You're our producer and we wouldn't want

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Speaker 1: to be mean to you. So that's why we're talking

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Speaker 1: by zoom instead of Twitter.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for that podcast on Twitter sounds hard or

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Speaker 3: guess X.

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Speaker 1: Sure, Yeah, don't dead name it, jeez, no whatever.

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Speaker 3: Even as someone who books the show, I'm surprised Cody

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Speaker 3: hasn't been on it and that makes me feel crazy.

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Speaker 3: So I'm glad you're here about time.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 1: I genuinely like, I was like, what was the last

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Speaker 1: thing Cody was on? And then I like googled your

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Speaker 1: name plus cool people did cool stuff, and then I

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Speaker 1: was like, wait a second, yeah, And then I at

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Speaker 1: this moment where I was like, do I just have

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Speaker 1: a parasocial relationship with you? But then I remember, and

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Speaker 1: I've been on your show exactly.

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Speaker 2: I was trying to think too. It was like, I

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Speaker 2: don't think because I know Katie has and I was like,

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Speaker 2: I don't think I've actually been there, and I was

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Speaker 2: thinking of when you were on even more news.

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Speaker 3: For me, it's like a Berenstein Bear situation. I think

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Speaker 3: you were on, Like.

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Speaker 2: It's possible I would. I would be easily convinced.

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Speaker 1: Back in nineteen ninety eight, the first episode, our audio

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Speaker 1: engineer is Rory. Everyone has to say hi to Rory.

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Speaker 2: Hi. Rory, Hi, Rory Hi, Rory.

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Speaker 1: Our theme musical is written force by Unwoman And this

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Speaker 1: week I'm going to tell you one of my favorite

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Speaker 1: kinds of stories. It's a story that starts with a

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Speaker 1: bunch of revolutionaries and ends up with them fighting to

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Speaker 1: the death against slavery, and they even win in the

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Speaker 1: end because American chattel slavery is no longer legal, so

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Speaker 1: we did it. Yeah, everything's fine, we didn't do it,

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Speaker 1: but like, yeah, fair enough the story. Yeah yeah, they

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Speaker 1: win some of what they wanted. We're talking about some

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Speaker 1: folks who wanted way more than just the current capitalist

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Speaker 1: hell world with still legalized slavery. It's just prison slavery,

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Speaker 1: and said chattel slavery. This week's story. I'm curious if

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Speaker 1: either of y'all have heard of the forty eight ers. No,

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Speaker 1: I admit I wasn't expecting you to not, because yeah, no, no,

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Speaker 1: this is this is I feel like about half the

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Speaker 1: time I do things that are like this person you've

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Speaker 1: totally heard of was more radical than you think, like

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Speaker 1: my Oscar wild episode or something right, And then the

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Speaker 1: other half is like, here's how these people you never

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Speaker 1: heard of like changed the way that you currently live today.

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Speaker 1: Love those and who we could learn something from?

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Speaker 2: And also who's the fuck is Oscar Wilde? And oh

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Speaker 2: yeah no he's just this, uh, just some guy.

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Speaker 1: I never did anything of any I won't be looking

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Speaker 1: yeah no, yeah, yeah, no, totally Yeah, the forty eight

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Speaker 1: ers are, well, the forty eight is we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about are mostly German immigrants that came over to

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Speaker 1: the US after the failed revolutions of eighteen forty eight

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Speaker 1: forty nine. Basically, the super short version is that there

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Speaker 1: was almost a worldwide revolution in eighteen forty eight. Fifty

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Speaker 1: different countries had revolutions in eighteen forty eight eighteen forty nine,

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Speaker 1: most of them lost, and the people who then had

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Speaker 1: to flee the countries that they came from are called

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Speaker 1: the forty eight ers. So after the revolution failed in Germany,

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Speaker 1: a ton of them just hit the ground running and

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Speaker 1: joined the abolitionist movement in the United States, and it

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Speaker 1: opened a kind of new front in war against slavery.

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Speaker 1: It's a war that would eventually not too long after

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Speaker 1: that become less metaphorical and more literal. But since the

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Speaker 1: forty eight ers were not strangers to sword and rifle,

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Speaker 1: they got right up into that too. Spoiler to the

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Speaker 1: very end of the episode, about ten percent of the

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Speaker 1: Union troops were born in Germany. Oh yeah, I had

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Speaker 1: no idea on fact. It's gonna be really funny to

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Speaker 1: tell this really long story about how great the Germans are.

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Speaker 1: Russian special thanks to the Germans. I know, because there's

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Speaker 1: like a meme going around right now, right because like

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Speaker 1: the German left is being really embarrassing and not pro

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Speaker 1: Palestine by and large because of this movement called the

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Speaker 1: anti Deutsch that is like everything that is whatever anyway,

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Speaker 1: I'm not getting to anti Deutsch. You just don't want

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Speaker 1: to be angry. So there's like a meme that's like,

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Speaker 1: congratulations Germany for continuing to be on the wrong side

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Speaker 1: of history of everything forever, right side of the history

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Speaker 1: this episode time this, yeah, time.

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Speaker 3: Maybe the one and only. Maybe maybe I shouldn't say that.

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Speaker 1: There's not a lot of times. I mean, like probably

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Speaker 1: invading Rome was good, but I don't know. Maybe I'll

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Speaker 1: like go back and learn more about the Goths and

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Speaker 1: be like, eh, actually at all.

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Speaker 2: But this is up there in terms of like importance.

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Speaker 2: It's this is a good one. It's not just like

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Speaker 2: it's not an easy right side of history. I mean

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Speaker 2: should be, but.

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Speaker 1: Right, yeah, they did better than the Irish.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so but you know, good for them for choosing

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Speaker 2: this one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. The Revolutions of eighteen forty eight stand out

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Speaker 1: maybe the most dramatically as like the thing that kind

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Speaker 1: of kicked off about half of what I care about.

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Speaker 1: But I don't really know as much about right because

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Speaker 1: I've been hearing about the revolutions of eighteen forty eight forever.

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Speaker 1: But I suspect that that's not a universal experience of

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Speaker 1: my hosts and listeners. They're the precursor to all the

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Speaker 1: revolutions that I know way more about. Like all the

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Speaker 1: like old heads in the eighteen seventies would be like,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, eighteen forty eight, you know, sort of the

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Speaker 1: equivalent of like people talking about the seventies right now,

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Speaker 1: only people went even harder. Anyway, this isn't an episode

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Speaker 1: about the revolutions eighteen forty eight. One day I'll cover it,

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Speaker 1: but that's going to be all, like more than two parts.

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Speaker 1: There's fifty different countries, and it's the closest to a

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Speaker 1: revolutionary world war that I think the earth has ever seen.

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Speaker 1: I could be wrong about that. I think once I

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Speaker 1: like dive more into it, i'll know a little bit more.

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Speaker 1: But we're gonna talk about the exiles mostly, but first

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Speaker 1: I have to talk a little bit about the revolutions

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Speaker 1: of eighteen forty eight. I was really sad because sometimes

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Speaker 1: I know more about nineteenth century politics than twenty first

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Speaker 1: century politics because I live in books. So there's this

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Speaker 1: thing that I run across sometimes people talk about the

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Speaker 1: Spirit of forty eight, you know, and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: maybe I'm gonna call this episode the Spirit of forty eight.

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Speaker 1: And then I googled spirit of forty eight and it

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Speaker 1: is Zionism complaining. Oh because they're about nineteen forty eight.

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Speaker 3: Oh haha, Yeah, that's so fortunate. They really fucked up

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Speaker 3: that number.

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Speaker 2: I know, you could be specific spirit of eighteen forty eight.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. We'll see what it ends up called.

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Speaker 2: Spirit of forty eight parentheses, No, the other one, the other.

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Speaker 1: The one that Margaret pays more attention to the old one.

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Speaker 1: In eighteen forty eight, a wave of revolution spread across

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Speaker 1: Europe and to a lesser extent, around the world. About

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Speaker 1: fifty countries were up in that and this wasn't a

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Speaker 1: big mass planned thing, nor was it internationally coordinated. Each

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Speaker 1: country was doing its own thing, but they were like

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Speaker 1: looking over and being like Italy's doing it, we can

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Speaker 1: do it, you know, which is the way things happened.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's what I say.

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Speaker 2: It was.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this was the kind of the biggest revolution of

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Speaker 1: the Enlightenment. Maybe I don't know if people were gonna

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Speaker 1: get mad when I used hyperbolic whatever. It was a

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Speaker 1: big revolution that was enlightenment. Thinking it was pro democracy

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Speaker 1: is anti aristocracy. People wanted constitutions instead of kings. They

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Speaker 1: wanted freedom of the press. Working class people wanted to

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Speaker 1: not starved to death. Nationalism was all the rage, and

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Speaker 1: I've talked a bunch on the show before about how

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Speaker 1: nationalism meant a fairly different thing in the nineteenth century

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Speaker 1: and than it does now. But it it was probably

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Speaker 1: always a mistake, but we know why they came up

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Speaker 1: with it. They were like, what if Ukraine wasn't part

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Speaker 1: of Russia anymore? You know, and shit like that.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Socialism was also all the rage during this but socialism

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Speaker 1: wasn't as codified and specific as it would be thirty

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Speaker 1: years later. The working class in a lot of Europe

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Speaker 1: was spending half its wages on food, mostly potatoes and bread,

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Speaker 1: and only two years earlier the potato crap had failed,

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Speaker 1: most famously of course, in Ireland, but you know, it

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Speaker 1: failed everywhere across Europe, and people sure weren't happy. They

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Speaker 1: were hungry, they weren't happy. Capitalism had just come through

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Speaker 1: and destroyed the traditional guild system for skilled labor, and

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Speaker 1: the labor movement hadn't quite kicked into gear yet. This

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Speaker 1: is kind of like, in some ways, is the labor

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Speaker 1: movement kicking into gear. The political landscape is almost entirely

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Speaker 1: different than it would be by the end of the

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Speaker 1: nineteenth century. And it's funny to pretend like, oh, everyone

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Speaker 1: understands totally the ins and outs of leftism at the

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Speaker 1: end of the nineteenth century. That's probably not true. But

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Speaker 1: the left in eighteen forty eight was a mix of

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Speaker 1: like republicans as in, we want a republic and socialists,

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Speaker 1: some of whom are what we would understand is modern

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Speaker 1: socialists more or less, and those will tend to like

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Speaker 1: lean more towards like atheism and enlightenment thinking. You also

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Speaker 1: have these utopian socialists that were actually very religious and

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Speaker 1: they kind of just go away after a while.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's not a lot of that.

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Speaker 1: No, France overthrew their monarchy and went back to having

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Speaker 1: a republic for a little while. Every now and then

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Speaker 1: people are like, oh, you're going to do the French Revolution,

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Speaker 1: and like maybe, but like which one? And I can't

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Speaker 1: keep track. There's too many of them. And they always

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Speaker 1: put rich people in charge, so like just to all

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Speaker 1: of them, Yeah, that's true, you'd be like, and then

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Speaker 1: they put rich people in charge and they killed too

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Speaker 1: many people. Italy and Germany were heading towards unification, which

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Speaker 1: was like a big part of the nationalism.

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Speaker 2: Love when Italy and Germany get together.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well not with each other, but like Italy didn't exist, right,

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Speaker 1: Germany didn't exist. They were like what if, Like there

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Speaker 1: are these ideas, which again didn't work out great for

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Speaker 1: the world. Yeah, like, because they do later get more

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Speaker 1: directly together, you're oal. The Austrian Empire conceded a bunch

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Speaker 1: of power to some of its conquered people, like the

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Speaker 1: Hungarians and the Czechs, and these revolutions. I hate to

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Speaker 1: give credit to the American Revolution. It's like a thing

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Speaker 1: that causes me physical discomfort, but the American Revolution was

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Speaker 1: a major source of inspiration for the revolutions of eighteen

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Speaker 1: forty eight for a lot of the revolutionaries. Their heroes

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Speaker 1: were the founding fathers of the United States, because this

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Speaker 1: is like kind of the first Western country being like

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Speaker 1: what if republic? Though, right, they created a slave republic,

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Speaker 1: and that's going to come up as an issue, so

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Speaker 1: revolutionaries and like random European countries would fly the French

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Speaker 1: tricolor flag of the First French Revolution right next to

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Speaker 1: the stars and stripes of the US as being like,

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Speaker 1: the revolutionary flags don't bring this back. German pamphlets would

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Speaker 1: go around with the slogan Germany must become a free

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Speaker 1: state like America because all men are created equal. Looked

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Speaker 1: good on paper.

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Speaker 2: Does it's a good sentence.

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Speaker 1: But even back then people were like, well, except the

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Speaker 1: US isn't really free though, right They enslave people there.

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Speaker 1: That seems like not freedom. So the forty eight ers

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Speaker 1: took their ideas of liberty way further than the US did.

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Speaker 1: The Second Republic of France abolished slavery at home and

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Speaker 1: in the colonies on April twenty seventh, eighteen forty eight.

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Speaker 1: Sweden abolished slavery in eighteen forty seven. Denmark abolished slavery

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Speaker 1: in eighteen forty eight. But whenever you like read the

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Speaker 1: quick version, it's like, oh, and then these countries abolish

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Speaker 1: slavery because white Europeans are cool and good and right right.

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Speaker 1: The reason that Denmark abolished slavery was because of an

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Speaker 1: uprising that is left out of the story, usually because

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Speaker 1: it wasn't white people who abolished slavery.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was told that white Americans were the first

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Speaker 2: to abolish slavery. Actually, so I feel like maybe you're

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Speaker 2: misrepresenting history right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, yeah, absolutely, your word for it. In eighteen

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Speaker 1: forty seven, Denmark was like, oh, we're going to phase

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Speaker 1: out slavery over the next twelve years, starting with newborn babies.

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Speaker 1: And this is really common. No, I know, isn't that dark?

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Speaker 2: You could Yeah, you got to start with the babies. Definitely,

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Speaker 2: don't have the babies be slaves.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, insane, Yeah, weirdess like victory, we did it. Reformists

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Speaker 1: from one hundred years ago plus always looks so weird.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: I recently did an episode where people were fighting really

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Speaker 1: earnestly for the fifty two hour work week. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, where does that even fit? Yeah, what's the

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Speaker 1: math on that?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 1: But you know, I mean one of the main things

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Speaker 1: that abolitionists were trying to do because they were like, well,

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Speaker 1: obviously we can't get out of slavery tomorrow, but we

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Speaker 1: can start by phasing it out, and like, you know,

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Speaker 1: that seemed like a radical sure.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, again, it's in context. Totally get it, phase

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Speaker 2: it out. I feel like so much of this is

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Speaker 2: just like, here's like moral clarity, but we have to

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Speaker 2: kind of eskew that moral clarity and like do this

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Speaker 2: other path. It's a lot harder, and in retrospect seems

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Speaker 2: like very silly, honest face.

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Speaker 1: Yeah no, because over and over again people learned that

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Speaker 1: the way to get rid of slavery was to demand

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Speaker 1: that slaves are free and then shoot everyone who tries

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Speaker 1: to ll slave people. And that's how they did it

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Speaker 1: in Denmark in the end, because in July eighteen forty eight,

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Speaker 1: people on the Danish island of Saint Croix in the

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Speaker 1: Virgin Islands were like, yeah, we're not fucking waiting around

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Speaker 1: for that. So when slave folks rose up and took

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Speaker 1: over the town of Frederick's and the Governor General of

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Speaker 1: the Danish West Indies looked at the situation and decided

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Speaker 1: reasonably enough that the best way out of the situation

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Speaker 1: was to abolish slavery immediately.

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Speaker 2: H I mean, kind of the perfect series of events.

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Speaker 2: It's what you want, right.

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Speaker 1: No, totally, it worked perfectly. And what was funny is

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Speaker 1: he didn't have the authority to do this because property

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Speaker 1: writes blah blah blah. But he just did it even

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Speaker 1: though he didn't have the authority to and it worked.

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Speaker 1: Maybe there's a lesson there. Yeah, sometimes you can just

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Speaker 1: do stuff.

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Speaker 3: I mean, why did they choose twelve years anyway? Like

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Speaker 3: why and why decide that number? And of course they

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Speaker 3: wouldn't wait that long or no one would wait that

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Speaker 3: long twelve years.

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Speaker 1: I know they're like, it's right around the corner, but

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Speaker 1: it's twelve years from now.

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Speaker 2: Well, you want the non babies, you're, like the one

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Speaker 2: two year olds to be able to like be slaves,

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Speaker 2: so like you can train up the slave children one

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Speaker 2: more generation of slave children. Yeah, yeah, and then when

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Speaker 2: it's abolished, then you have like some you know, strong

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Speaker 2: younger folks.

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Speaker 4: They really they really thought they did something with that number,

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Speaker 4: which is funny because it's still more radical than like

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Speaker 4: everything that all of the white abolitionists and power were doing.

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Speaker 1: They were like, well, you know, they abolished the slave trade,

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Speaker 1: so then you just had to be born in America

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Speaker 1: to be a slave, and then yeah, you know, and

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Speaker 1: then they were like, you know that's yeah. Third, So

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Speaker 1: the governor who did this like totally illegal thing where

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Speaker 1: he abolished slavery in Denmark. He then had a nervous

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Speaker 1: breakdown and just like fled the islands. But it also

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Speaker 1: meant that the people he just pissed off completely couldn't

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Speaker 1: get to him.

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Speaker 2: That's right to do it.

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Speaker 1: Successfully, Yeah, I think so. I think he lived out

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Speaker 1: of the rest of his days. I didn't track him specifically,

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Speaker 1: but like no one apparently did. Yeah, I know, right,

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Speaker 1: Because yeah, the US of course did not abolish slavery

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Speaker 1: in eighteen forty eight. It took a whole lass war

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Speaker 1: and a quarter of a million dead confederates for us

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Speaker 1: to do that. But the abolitionist movement was feeling optimistic

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Speaker 1: because they were looking Europe, and abolitionist groups started talking

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Speaker 1: to the forty eight ers, and especially black abolitionists were

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Speaker 1: like going to Europe and joining these struggles and like

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Speaker 1: going to these like World Peace Conference, and you've got

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Speaker 1: like this guy whose name was in an earlier version

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Speaker 1: of the script. It didn't end up being in this

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Speaker 1: version of the script where he like became the first

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Speaker 1: black man to get an honorary doctorate anywhere in Europe.

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Speaker 1: Because they were got a doctor of theology and I

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Speaker 1: think eighteen forty nine, and when speakers from Germany would

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Speaker 1: come through the US, especially Ohio, black folks in Ohio

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Speaker 1: would fund raise and send them home with money for

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Speaker 1: their revolution. So it wasn't just this like, oh, as

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Speaker 1: poor black people need to be saved by the white Europeans.

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Speaker 1: It was a really conscious thing that, like Frederick Douglass

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Speaker 1: was like going to Europe and talking to folks, it

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Speaker 1: was as conscious, like we are all trying to end

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Speaker 1: this stuff together.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this sort of integration and like collaboration solitary already

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Speaker 2: across the ocean to yeah, acknowledge the horror that was

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Speaker 2: going on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And like I wouldn't blame people in the United

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Speaker 1: States who are like, we need our money here because

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Speaker 1: we have slavery here, but like they you know, felt

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Speaker 1: as important and supported it in thanks. The German revolutionaries

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Speaker 1: announced that quote the German people, as soon as they

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Speaker 1: have obtained the democratic republic and the coming struggle, we

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Speaker 1: use all means which are available to abolish slavery in institution,

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Speaker 1: which is so wholly repugnant to the principles of true democracy.

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Speaker 1: And they actually, in the end they did better than

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Speaker 1: their word. Because they said, once we get a democratic republic,

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Speaker 1: will come back and help you. They did not at

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Speaker 1: this stage get a democratic republic in Germany, and they

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Speaker 1: still showed up in the like tens or maybe hundreds

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Speaker 1: of thousands in the American Civil War with Germans. Yeah again,

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Speaker 1: eventual Germans, I guess, yeah. Like Black O'hians held a

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Speaker 1: state convention in eighteen fifty two and they passed a

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Speaker 1: resolution that said, tyranny in Russia, Austria and America is

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Speaker 1: the same, and therefore the Russian surf, the Hungarian peasant,

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Speaker 1: and the American slave and all other oppressed people should

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Speaker 1: unite against tyranny and despotism. But what they should have

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Speaker 1: offered is ads. They should have offered products and services.

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Speaker 2: Would have gotten a lot more done, a lot quicker,

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if they just interrupted their own shows by going

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Speaker 1: to ads, like we're doing right now, because we know better.

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Speaker 2: Here they are.

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Speaker 1: And we're back. So the revolutions don't win overall, some

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Speaker 1: of them do. After winning some stuff really quickly, the

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Speaker 1: revolutions start petering out or just losing the war. Modern

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Speaker 1: soci list's thought was born in the crucible of these

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Speaker 1: failed revolutions. Karl Marx published the Communist Manifesto in eighteen

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Speaker 1: forty eight, and I think that man was wrong about

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Speaker 1: a lot of things. I'm gonna talk about somethe in

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Speaker 1: this episode because that's what I live to do. But

398
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Speaker 1: he could fucking write the first words of the Communist

399
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Speaker 1: Manifesto is the sentence a specter is haunting Europe, the

400
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,119
Speaker 1: specter of communism. And that's just good writing.

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Speaker 2: It's good, solid.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I'm sold.

404
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:33,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's do it, diving right in, I mean, stateless,

405
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,439
Speaker 1: classicist society I'm in for. I just disagree with some

406
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Speaker 1: of his specific, weird strategic ideas like authority, but whatever. Anyway,

407
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:44,480
Speaker 1: besides the point, what Karl Marx did it do was

408
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Speaker 1: actually fighting the revolution. See I told you I talk shit.

409
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Speaker 2: Here you go.

410
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Speaker 1: Even though he was in Colm as workers went off

411
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Speaker 1: to fight and die for what he said he believed in,

412
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Speaker 1: he was like, ah, I got out of here. It's

413
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Speaker 1: getting get a little spicy as compared to this is

414
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Speaker 1: the pettiest I'm going to be all episode. I promise

415
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Speaker 1: the main person he got into arguments with a couple

416
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Speaker 1: years later, anarchism's founding father in many ways, Mikhail Bakunin

417
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:12,200
Speaker 1: also was in these revolutions. He was four years older

418
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Speaker 1: than Marx. He was thirty four when they broke out,

419
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Speaker 1: and he actually fought in two of them. He fought

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Speaker 1: in two countries revolutions. He fought in the Prague Uprising

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Speaker 1: of eighteen forty eight, and he fought in the Dresden

422
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Speaker 1: Uprising in eighteen forty nine. He was arrested in Dresden,

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Speaker 1: he was sentenced to death, He was extradited a bunch

424
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Speaker 1: of times. He winds up in Siberia, losing all of

425
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Speaker 1: his teeth and fleeing across the world through Japan and

426
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 1: the US to wind up in London, where he then

427
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,399
Speaker 1: gets into a huge power struggle with Marx about whether

428
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:44,480
Speaker 1: the internationalisms what should be, that's association should be Like, yeah,

429
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Speaker 1: but that hasn't happened yet. What matters, besides me getting

430
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Speaker 1: my little jabs in when I can, is that in

431
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,359
Speaker 1: this period, the eighteen forties and eighteen fifties, this is

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Speaker 1: the fire from which the modern Left was formed, as

433
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Speaker 1: well as a lot of the petty and not so

434
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 1: petty grievances between all these various factions. And I will

435
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Speaker 1: leave it to the listener to decide which ones are witch,

436
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 1: some of mineor petty. I admit that the second French

437
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 1: Republic that they just won in this revolution, it only

438
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,160
Speaker 1: lasted for four years. The Irish revolution that happened during

439
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 1: this was called the Young Irelander Rebellion. I hope it

440
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 1: sounds better than Irish. It's just hard to say Irelander.

441
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,439
Speaker 1: It didn't get too far. This is, incidentally, where the

442
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,200
Speaker 1: current Irish flag comes from. Is this revolution of eighteen

443
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 1: forty eight. Some Irish revolutionaries went to France to congratulate

444
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 1: them on the new republic and then came back with

445
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,199
Speaker 1: their like, we need a trycolor of our own. So

446
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,160
Speaker 1: that's why the Irish flag looks like the French flag.

447
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:43,920
Speaker 1: It's intentional. And they were like, we want to reconcile

448
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 1: green Catholic Ireland with orange Protestant Ireland into a single

449
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:52,920
Speaker 1: national identity free from England. So actually a pretty cool flag.

450
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,479
Speaker 3: Sorry, green and orange? Am I aware those colors? Am

451
00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 3: I supposed to know why they're that colored?

452
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 1: Everyone needs to have like their little weird symbolic colors

453
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 1: for their factions and teams in this world, right, And

454
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 1: so like the Irish Catholics were like green and then

455
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 1: the like Anglo Protestants, mostly in Northern Ireland, but elsewhere

456
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 1: we're like orange, and we're like, where are the orange?

457
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 1: Where are the green? We should fight in the streets.

458
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 3: Oh that's interesting. Yeah, thanks for explaining that. That seemed

459
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 3: very random to me.

460
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 1: I guess it would be like the equivalent of oh

461
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 1: my god, if the American flag was red, white and blue,

462
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 1: but like a little bit more directly where it was

463
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,239
Speaker 1: like here's the Republicans and here's the Democrats, and then

464
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: they're all going to get along, which in the middle

465
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 1: would just be a bomb. And maybe over Palestine that

466
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 1: would be the middle of the American flag because that's

467
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: what they agree on. Yeah, getting my jabs in anyway,

468
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 1: we're recordings during the DNC. It's good, we got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

469
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,920
Speaker 1: it's fine. The eighteen forty eight revolutions, they get a

470
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff. They end absolute monarchy in Denmark, they

471
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: get democracy in the Netherlands, they ended serfdom in Austria,

472
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 1: in Hungary. Slavery was abolished in all those places I mentioned,

473
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 1: also in Colombia, but the forces of reaction also came

474
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 1: down really hard and people fled. And our story is

475
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,160
Speaker 1: mostly going to follow the Germans who fled to America

476
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,400
Speaker 1: and they joined the abolitionists. Well, who are the abolitionists,

477
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 1: you might ask?

478
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 2: Did you know?

479
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,120
Speaker 1: I did not know this one of the petty discourse

480
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,719
Speaker 1: not really petty, one of the discourse arguments that they

481
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 1: had in nineteenth century. Do you know there's a difference

482
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:30,400
Speaker 1: between an anti slavery activist and an abolitionist. There's no

483
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 1: reason for you to know this. Well I could guess,

484
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,440
Speaker 1: but you just say, anti slavery is like, yeah, we

485
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 1: gotta get rid of slavery, but white supremacy rules, we

486
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 1: should keep racist divided, blah blah blah. Abolition is a

487
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 1: little bit more like more full throated of a condemnation

488
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 1: of white supremacy and slavery.

489
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:49,440
Speaker 3: That makes sense.

490
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with one more than the other.

491
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder which which is funny though, because you

492
00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,640
Speaker 1: can still you wich okay, yeah, you can still get

493
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,400
Speaker 1: killed for being an anti slaver who's still a white supremacist.

494
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 3: Like, as a white supremacist, why would you want to

495
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:08,120
Speaker 3: be anti slavery?

496
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:13,439
Speaker 1: So some of its economic arguments and some of it's moral.

497
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: A lot of it's moral because they're like a lot

498
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: of it's like, well, you still can't enslave them even

499
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 1: though they are less than us and we're better, you know,

500
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: like you.

501
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, you just like I don't want them around, So like.

502
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: Oh, that's a whole side of it that comes up

503
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,400
Speaker 1: every now and then. It's like some of the whitest

504
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 1: places would be the places without slavery, right.

505
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 2: Right, exactly.

506
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: But there's also this thing a big part of why

507
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: surfdom ended in Russia because capitalism with wage labor makes

508
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:57,919
Speaker 1: economies more modern, robust, militarily competitive, and richer than slave states.

509
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 1: Do you think that slavery is like the ultimate way

510
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 1: to have a rich country because you're like, well, those

511
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: people aren't even getting paid, right, But what it's good

512
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: at is propping up a specific type of like aristocracy

513
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,719
Speaker 1: who doesn't work. I mean, capitalism is pretty good at

514
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 1: that too, but like, yeah, it just basically isn't as

515
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: economically competitive in the modern world.

516
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 2: I mean that makes general sense also, like treatment of

517
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 2: your slaves, and like there's so many horrific things about

518
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 2: slavery that would make just basic like economic factors and efficiency.

519
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 2: If that's something you're concerned about in terms of slavery.

520
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta give them healthcare because they're an investment.

521
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 2: Oh exactly, all these sort of things that you know,

522
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 2: over time, of course that's going to not be sustainable.

523
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, And a lot of the reason why the US,

524
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: the North was more industrialized and therefore kind of never

525
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 1: was going to lose the Civil War was because modern city,

526
00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: industrialized capitalism is better at making war. But by and large,

527
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: prior to eighteen forty eight, you can draw the abolitionist

528
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: into two broad categories. These are the abolitionists at the

529
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: anti slavery people. We're going to leave them out of it.

530
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: And the two broad categories are not going to surprise you.

531
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 1: It is black abolitionists and white abolitionists. And sometimes the

532
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: white abolitionists get called the Northern abolitionists because more of

533
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: them are white, But there are black abolitionists in the North.

534
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: They just had to get there right, and a lot

535
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: of them started there whatever. Anyway, both groups framed the

536
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 1: need for abolition in moral and religious terms, but in

537
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,640
Speaker 1: fairly different ways. White Northern abolitionists were largely Wasps, white

538
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: Anglo Saxon Protestants, and every word of that acronym matters

539
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 1: in this context to them, because they saw the world

540
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 1: through racialize lenses. To be fair, so did kind of

541
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: everyone at this point in history. They all just like

542
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: reached different conclusions about what to do. Everyone believed in

543
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 1: these ethnic racial categories, like the difference between the Celts

544
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: and the Anglo Saxons and the Teutonics whatever bullshit. By

545
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,360
Speaker 1: and large, the white Protestant abolitionists were like slavery goes

546
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: against the Protestant work ethic, and many of them were capitalists.

547
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: I had always assumed that kind of all of them were,

548
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: but actually during my reading for this episode, a lot

549
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: of people were like, well, we believe in hiring people

550
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: for wage labor. Some people were like, hell, yeah, this

551
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 1: is a great way to get rich. We're just going

552
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: to own factories and hire people. It rules fuck work.

553
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, good work you can get. It is

554
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 1: not working and having other people to your work. But

555
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 1: an awful lot of them with the Protestant work ethic thing,

556
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: were more like, we believe in small scale production where

557
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,959
Speaker 1: people exchange things freely that they make by their own hands.

558
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 1: So if you have wage labor, it should just only

559
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: be like the start of your career, it should be

560
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: this temporary thing w you can get your own means

561
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: of production. You can have your own workshop, you can

562
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: have your own little farm whatever. You know, that's not

563
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: how capitalism ended up.

564
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 2: ORGA doesn't.

565
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

566
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

567
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,719
Speaker 1: And the black abolitionists, their motives are pretty obvious. An

568
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: awful lot of them escape slavery themselves or descended from

569
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: those who had. And it was also framed in religious

570
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: and moral grounds, which is different ones. And then all

571
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: of a sudden there's now a third group that shows

572
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: up in mass the wild Eyed Socialists who are Atheists,

573
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 1: Lutherans and Jews, and they pour into the country from Germany.

574
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: I swear I'm going to get to the people like

575
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: fighting people in the streets, but I do a lot

576
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: of context on this show.

577
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 2: That was great.

578
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: The waves of immigration from Ireland and Germany were the

579
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 1: first really big non wasp in immigration waves in the US,

580
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: and it caused an awful lot of turmoil. I'm afraid

581
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 1: to say that by and large, the Irish immigrants behaved

582
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 1: themselves abysmally. They're going to be a bad part of

583
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: most of this story. The Germans are going to stand

584
00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 1: out in shining counter example. No dislike it, but it

585
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: is just true. Boo Irish immigrants were treated like shit.

586
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: They were treated like shit for being Celtic instead of

587
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: Anglo Saxon, and for being Catholic. And a lot of

588
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: the anti Catholic shit comes from this, like, oh Rome

589
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: is going to be in charge if we let the

590
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: Catholics in divided loyalties. And they were soon more or

591
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: less at war with the nativist No Nothing Party. Do

592
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: you know we had a political party called the No Nothings. No,

593
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: but they're just maga but like in the eighteen forties

594
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: and fifties.

595
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 3: No Nothing Party. I mean myself, that's good.

596
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 2: I know.

597
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: They're the anti immigrant party. That is like their thing.

598
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: Their whole shtick is that they're anti immigrant and they're

599
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: anti drinking. Okay, because immigrants drink good Protestants don't drink.

600
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: Oh I see. Of course, the German immigrants were treated

601
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: slightly better than the Irish immigrants because they were closer

602
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 1: to white by Anglo Saxon racial purities andards, and more

603
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: of them had a little bit more of a work

604
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: ethic or whatever than the lazy Irish because they're all pastoralist.

605
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 1: It gets back in a weird shit about being a

606
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: colonized nation. Anyway, the very first episode of this show,

607
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: we covered the logger beer Riots of Chicago of eighteen

608
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: fifty five, and that's when basically you weren't allowed to

609
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: have your like beer hall open on Sunday because of

610
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: these Sabbath laws that the Protestants were all about, and

611
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: it was partly to defeat the immigrant culture. Right the

612
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: only day people had off work was Sunday. If they

613
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: were lucky, they had Sunday off work. And so now

614
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: they're not even allowed to gather on the one day

615
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: they have off work. So they had these like riots

616
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 1: and kind of took over Chicago and a lot of

617
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: them got shot by cops and right wing militia, and

618
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 1: the history doesn't change. But the Germans in the race

619
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: sciencey minds of the nineteenth century were Teutonic people, which

620
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: is close cousins to the Anglo Saxons. They come from

621
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 1: the same branch of the tree of good white people.

622
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 2: You know, he system is so stupid, it's so dumb.

623
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 3: It's the dumbest thing, even when they're trying to be

624
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 3: smart and science y.

625
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: I know, sid there's this thing that lives rent free

626
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: in my head where my ex boyfriend once told me

627
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: about the guy who had to dedicate his life to

628
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: measuring the skulls of different dead people, white and black

629
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: to prove something he knew, which was that white brains

630
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: aren't bigger, but he still had to Like he was like,

631
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 1: you gotta get.

632
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

633
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: So the Germans are treated a little bit better, but

634
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: a third of the immigrants are Catholic, and none of

635
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: them are the right kind of Protestants and they like

636
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: to drink, so they're on thin ice. At first, the

637
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: abolitionists are like, hell, yeah, these like not quite white

638
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 1: immigrants are totally going to get the job done. We're

639
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: like totally going to have all these new people. Because

640
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: Irish revolutionaries in Ireland emphasis on in Ireland, we're already

641
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: talking about the need to end slavery in the United

642
00:32:55,880 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: States and all racial discrimination. But the flood of imigrants,

643
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 1: especially the Irish, soon got promised whiteness in exchange for

644
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: hating black people, and overall they kind of took that deal.

645
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: They were like, we don't belong in terrible working conditions

646
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 1: like black people do, and they started calling their situation

647
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: white slavery in the nineteenth century, because white slavery is

648
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: bad in contrast to black slavery, which is fine, even

649
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 1: though the white people weren't enslaved, they.

650
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 2: Just reversed slavery.

651
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. And so the Irish were at the forefront of

652
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: basically every northern anti black riot in the nineteenth century,

653
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: killing black people in the streets.

654
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 3: Great, that's great.

655
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: Ireland didn't send their best, Is that way or not?

656
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: One abolitionist, William Lloyd Garrison wrote in eighteen forty five,

657
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: and this is actually Garrison, who's on it could happen here.

658
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 1: Who's a vampire?

659
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 3: Oh right, yeah, yeah, yeah, they look really young and

660
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 3: that makes sense.

661
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: No, yeah, yeah, they transitioned to vampire very young. But

662
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: Gare wrote in eighteen forty five it is a most

663
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 1: deplorable circumstance that religiously and politically almost the entire body

664
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: of Irishmen in this country are disposed to go with

665
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 1: the accursed South for every purpose and to any extent.

666
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 1: They are a mighty obstacle in the way of negro

667
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 1: emancipation on our soil.

668
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,320
Speaker 2: Get the Irish, go get them.

669
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 1: Yeah. Veteran of the pod Frederick Douglass said, now, I

670
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 1: am far from finding fault with the Irish for coming

671
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: to this country, but I met with an irishman a

672
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: few weeks ago who told me that it was his

673
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: deliberate opinion that the colored people in this country could

674
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: never rise here and ought to go to Africa. What

675
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: I have to say to Ireland is send no more

676
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:42,359
Speaker 1: such children here.

677
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 2: I like that.

678
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: He was like, you're not sending your best.

679
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

680
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 1: The German immigrants, they stand in contrast, not all of them,

681
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: Many of them are racist pieces of shit, and also

682
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 1: a ton of the Irish people are cool as hell.

683
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 2: You know.

684
00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 1: It turns out, actually, if you make sweeping generalizations about

685
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: people are based on where they were born and what

686
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: ethnicity they are, you're usually wrong.

687
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 2: Oh it's funny how that works out. Yeah, it's never

688
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 2: even the reverse reverse reverse race. Yeah, totally, it never

689
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 2: works out.

690
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: The forty eight ers in particularly, were not too keen

691
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: on what they saw when they arrived. One German newspaper

692
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: editor wrote, Anglo Saxon civilization, which measures the value of

693
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: a human being only on the basis of income, in

694
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: which outer appearance is everything, truth and honor nothing, leads

695
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 1: to moral servitude, material slavery, and anti social barbarity. It

696
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:37,720
Speaker 1: destroys all bonds of society, consolidates the monarchical principle wherever

697
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:43,240
Speaker 1: it exists and undermines the republic. Yeah, that's true. Another

698
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 1: German journalist put it a little less politely. I would

699
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,280
Speaker 1: feel more comfortable here if there were more paintings, better drama,

700
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: and less religion. This disgusting garlic smell and the stench

701
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: of religion permeate all of life.

702
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 2: Yep. You need different writers for different purposes. You need

703
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 2: some is going to be more effective.

704
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: Than Yeah, yeah, totally, and the best of all of

705
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 1: these writers continues to be Frederick Douglass, in contrast to

706
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 1: how he viewed that the Irish immigrants, said of the Germans,

707
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: a German has only to be a German to be

708
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: utterly opposed to slavery. This is why you know that

709
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 1: you can't judge nations by what you assume is their

710
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:21,359
Speaker 1: national character. Because the national character of Germans looked really good.

711
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: One hundred years later it didn't look as good. Yeah,

712
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 1: but what does look good one hundred years from now

713
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: is looking back on all those receipts and thinking, you

714
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 1: know what, I'm glad I spent my money on products

715
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: and services. There's services too, there's services as well. Sometimes

716
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 1: you even get ads for podcasts, which is neither a

717
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 1: product nor a service, just a thing.

718
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 2: Yes, entertainment.

719
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 3: Is that a service?

720
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: I guess you're the product.

721
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 3: Oh, here's a product, and you're doing a service.

722
00:36:55,040 --> 00:37:02,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, by listening to these ads, here they are yeah,

723
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: and we're back. And so the forty eight ers they

724
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 1: show up just as abolitionism is heating up, because in

725
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 1: eighteen fifty, the US passed the Fugitive Slave Act, which

726
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: basically gave Southerners way more rights recovering their like property

727
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: in the North. And we recently did an episode where

728
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: I talked about how this started, but I can't remember

729
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 1: which fucking episode it was. You should just listen to

730
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: all one hundred and something episodes that we've done in

731
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:32,959
Speaker 1: the show, and you'll know where the Fugitive Slave Act

732
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:33,720
Speaker 1: started from.

733
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 2: Pause this real quick, I guess, and then guilds and

734
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 2: all those yeah, yeah, and then come back.

735
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 1: Okay, you're back, Okay, cool, glad you're still with us?

736
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 2: All right?

737
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:45,839
Speaker 1: And for people who didn't have to pause because they've

738
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: already listened to all of them, are you okay? I mean,

739
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: I guess I've listened to all of them. I'm not sure.

740
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 1: I'm okay, oh yeah, if you have.

741
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 2: Listened all them, I guess pause and then just sort

742
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 2: of listened to silence for as long as it would take,

743
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 2: and then come back as well totally.

744
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: Okay, now you're back from that. Okay, I really appreciate that.

745
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: So the Fugitive Slave Act united the disparate and like

746
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: the abolitionist movement, has never been a centralized thing. It

747
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 1: will never be a centralized thing except when it's like

748
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 1: the United States Army and it's you know, at war, right,

749
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: But all of the different factions are fighting a lot

750
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:24,280
Speaker 1: until the Fugitive Slave Act, which in some ways hastened

751
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 1: the decline of slavery because it got people to get

752
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: their shit together. Because what it did is now the

753
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,839
Speaker 1: North is a battleground too, right, because now you could

754
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: be like a white liberal in Boston and then all

755
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: of a sudden, you are culpable because this fugitive person

756
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 1: can be arrested in front of you. You know, a

757
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: lot of people fought, and we've talked about this on

758
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: the show. A lot of people were like, no, we're

759
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 1: gonna we don't care about the law. We will pull

760
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,439
Speaker 1: guns and shoot people who try to recover their quote

761
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: unquote property. That's a guy. You can't convince me otherwise.

762
00:38:58,200 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense that that's going to galvinize me.

763
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 2: You bring it even closer to them and blurring the

764
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 2: lines of that, and it's like, yeah, any aggressive law, like,

765
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 2: that's an aggressive law. Yeah, and that's going to get

766
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 2: pushed back, especially with ideally hopefully with an issue such

767
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 2: as slavery.

768
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a big it's a big one. It's one

769
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: of the bigger issues.

770
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

771
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 1: Forty eight ers in particular sort of pressured their own

772
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: to take sides in the struggle because they show up

773
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: right and they're like, well, our revolution failed, we're here now,

774
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: we've got to keep going. We've got to keep trying

775
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:40,399
Speaker 1: to make the world better. And they were like, so

776
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,800
Speaker 1: when people showed up and we're like, oh, we're grateful

777
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 1: to America for taking us in and we won't meddle

778
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:50,359
Speaker 1: in its political affairs, everyone just attacks the shit out

779
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: of them. They are just hated as the hypocrites they are.

780
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: There's endless press about these piece of shit, coward hypocrite

781
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 1: forty eight ers, Like there's only a couple of them too,

782
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 1: but everyone's like, fuck these people. Their public support is

783
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: immediately taken away. Cancel culture strikes again eighteen fifty time. Yeah,

784
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 1: cancel culture came for father Theobald Matthew from Ireland, who

785
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: was more concerned with temperance than anti slavery, and he

786
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: was like, well, you know, the pro slavery people are

787
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 1: the ones who were like, like, if I'm trying to

788
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 1: build all the support for no one should be allowed

789
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: to drink, and so if I start talking shit on slavery,

790
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: I'll lose a lot of my supporters because a lot

791
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 1: of the people who don't think you should be able

792
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:33,800
Speaker 1: to drink think it's okay to own people.

793
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 2: We all have to compromise.

794
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it is wild to me how much

795
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: old US politics were revolved around whether or not drinking

796
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 1: is okay.

797
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:44,839
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and.

798
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 3: Now looks like a national identity. It feels like just

799
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 3: Americans and Americans just have a beer.

800
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:54,320
Speaker 1: I know. It would be like, yeah, like the KKK

801
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,240
Speaker 1: in the twenties was the armed wing of the fucking

802
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: temperance movement. They were like running around specific trying to

803
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: stop people from drinking.

804
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 3: The rebrand of alcohol is something fascinating. It should be studied.

805
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 3: We should do that, We should do the rebrand of.

806
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 1: That's probably a bastards.

807
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 3: But yeah, no that I read, I guess I just

808
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 3: met like I should learn about that, and I just

809
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 3: know that you teach me things, and so that's what

810
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 3: I meant.

811
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,359
Speaker 1: But oh, you should do it on food could happen here,

812
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:22,359
Speaker 1: he can have been here.

813
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 3: It's a drink happen fascinating because that's an incredible one

814
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 3: to eighty rebrand, you know, like.

815
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:31,240
Speaker 2: It's I know, oh yeah, fully like embraced the idea

816
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,879
Speaker 2: of getting rid of that now that would start another.

817
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,239
Speaker 3: That wasn't even that long ago, like that, it wasn't

818
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 3: nineteen twenties, nineteen thirties. Very fascinating.

819
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,359
Speaker 1: And it's interesting too because you also run across like

820
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 1: basically straight edge revolutionaries all throughout history where people are like, hey,

821
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 1: stop drinking so we can get some shit done, you know.

822
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 1: And so it's been like both a radical and an

823
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: anti radical stance to drink or not drink like forever,

824
00:41:57,840 --> 00:41:59,879
Speaker 1: because like I read all this and it's like, man,

825
00:41:59,920 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: I should drink more. Like That's what I with. Whenever

826
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: I read about the Temperance movement, my oppositional sidekicks in

827
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,839
Speaker 1: and I'm like, you know, who hated drinking slavers.

828
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 2: We gotta exactly got to show them, Yeah, you're dead now,

829
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 2: but I gotta show them.

830
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, Temperance being like the precursor to straight edge, Like

831
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 3: it didn't I didn't realize it was so old.

832
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: Well, but so what's funny is it comes from a

833
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 1: slightly different thing because what you have specifically is you

834
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 1: have XBX straight edge vegans, the kind of revolutionary who

835
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century didn't drink, but not because of

836
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 1: the temperance movement, not for religious reasons, because of the revolution.

837
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:41,280
Speaker 1: Usually was also like strict vegetarian aka vegan. That's interesting,

838
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 1: And so there's like all of these like XBX heroes

839
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,919
Speaker 1: all throughout this whole thing, and then there's other people

840
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: who are like fuck that, I'm drinking and eating meat

841
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 1: on my way to revolution, you know, right, thanks.

842
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 2: All kinds everybody. You know, everybody deals with that in

843
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,479
Speaker 2: different ways. If you need to stay focused, that's fine.

844
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 2: If you need to drown yourself, that's fine too.

845
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 1: We gotta yeah, because the world is a fucking nightmare

846
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 1: and whatever helps you through it, exactly. So the father

847
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: Theobald Matthew from Ireland got a hard time of it,

848
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 1: as did Lajos Losith, a Hungarian revolutionary, would initially because

849
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:17,879
Speaker 1: he's a big deal revolutionary. He shows up and he's

850
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 1: greeted with like parades and shit by the abolitionists in

851
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: the US. They're like, here's our fucking guy. The forty

852
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: eight ers are here. We're gonna get some shit done.

853
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: And then he was the one who said basically like, oh,

854
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,359
Speaker 1: we're grateful to America and we don't want to meddle,

855
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 1: and it's domestic political affairs. And so someone published a

856
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 1: one hundred and twelve page pamphlet called Letter to Kosith

857
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 1: attacking his hypocrisy. Well, just like all these like bloggers.

858
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 3: Just I'm just imagine this long reddit thread like.

859
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 1: Exactly. That is, the people haven't changed the way that

860
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 1: we do. What we do changes, But on this Tumblr

861
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: thread it said, quote, how could you expect to neutral

862
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 1: ground to please alike the traffickers of human flesh and

863
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 1: those who execate that traffic to skulk behind the flimsy

864
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 1: subterfuge of foreign non intervention, Which is just I read

865
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 1: that in my snarky voice, but I actually agree with

866
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 1: what I just read. Oh yeah, so.

867
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 2: You know they're in their little basement typing away like

868
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 2: that's what yeah they sound like, but.

869
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, well they're handsetting type right, sure, right, but one

870
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 1: hundred and.

871
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:28,280
Speaker 2: Disturbing.

872
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. In response to the first of what do

873
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 1: you have to say on page seventeen of the pamphlet,

874
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 1: I am a coward, I would like to say, yes, sir,

875
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 1: you are. And so German immigrants actually got together and

876
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 1: they put together a platform. They were going to start

877
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:46,359
Speaker 1: a party called the German Reform Party, and then they

878
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: were quite came together, but they could put together a

879
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:51,759
Speaker 1: platform that was way too radical for like basically everyone else.

880
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 1: It was pro labor, it was anti clergy, it was

881
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: anti slavery, it was pro women's rights. And while we're

882
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: at it, let's abolish the presidency. Yeah. Interesting, not a

883
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: demand run across anywhere else.

884
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't see that because.

885
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: Like anarchists want to abolish the whole government. But I

886
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 1: haven't met anyone who's like the executive branch has got

887
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:13,399
Speaker 1: to go, right, like.

888
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 2: Democracy, good, we're gonna have government. We have like all

889
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 2: this like assistem in place, but like no presidents.

890
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, considering the way the US works, they

891
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 1: were probably onto something.

892
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:24,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, not a bad idea.

893
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, their party never formed, but this platform that they

894
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:33,280
Speaker 1: wrote it was widely disseminated, and it just fucking threw

895
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:37,800
Speaker 1: open the Overton window because it was like someone finally

896
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 1: was just like, yeah, what if we want all of this?

897
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 1: And so people had to suddenly if they were moderate,

898
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 1: they were now speaking in response to the more radical

899
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:47,720
Speaker 1: and they changed what it meant to be radical.

900
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, you kind of have to like pick like, not everything.

901
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,439
Speaker 2: I'll pick one or two of these things. Keep the presidency, Yeah,

902
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 2: we get the presidency, and like these are okay, and yeah,

903
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 2: sort of sifting through to try to be still be

904
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 2: a part of the discourse.

905
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 1: Oh god, if I come full circle on being positive

906
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 1: on discourse, it's like usually my pin Twitter threat is

907
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 1: I must not discourse discourses, the mind killer discourses, the

908
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 1: little death of Prince aliteration. So that said, while they

909
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: were not as pro slavery as the Irish overall, again

910
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: a ton of Irish people are going to fight for

911
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: the union also and because they care about slavery, right,

912
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 1: But the average German immigrant was more like, I guess

913
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 1: slavery is bad, but I'm more concerned about protection from

914
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 1: the sabbath and temperance laws, like I want to be

915
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 1: able to drink and I want to be able to

916
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:35,959
Speaker 1: drink on Sundays because the only day I don't work,

917
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: and I want better wages and shit. That was like

918
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: the average German immigrant was basically anti slavery instead of abolitionist,

919
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, or maybe they were abolitionists, but a

920
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 1: little bit more wasn't their primary thing. Most German immigrants

921
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,320
Speaker 1: with the non forty eight ers were joining the Democratic Party,

922
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 1: which is the more racist party at this time. Right,

923
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 1: they're both neck and neck for us while because the

924
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 1: Democratic Party stands in opposition to that Northern Wasp thing

925
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 1: that was trying to ban alcohol and force everyone to

926
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: observe the sabbath and like, had closer ties to the nativists,

927
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 1: the people who were shooting them in the streets for

928
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 1: being from another country. So that is the America that

929
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 1: the forty eight ers show up in. As for what

930
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 1: they did, which was really impressive, and I'm not going

931
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 1: to tell you about it, well i am, but I'm

932
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,720
Speaker 1: gonna tell you about it on Wednesday, so today, well YouTube,

933
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 1: I'll tell you too today, but everyone else you got

934
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 1: to keep it quiet. Okay til Wednesday.

935
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, suckers.

936
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, So come back on Wednesday and I will talk

937
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 1: about abolitionists in Texas, which sounds scary and it was,

938
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 1: and they needed guns to get away with not dying,

939
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 1: and also in Ohio, which is also cool. And we'll

940
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 1: talk about them on Wednesday. But first we should talk

941
00:47:57,760 --> 00:47:59,359
Speaker 1: about you and the things that you do.

942
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 2: What do you? Who are you?

943
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 1: How'd you get here?

944
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 4: Oh?

945
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,840
Speaker 2: Jeez? Oh, thanks so much. I was invited. You invited me? Great? Yeah? No, huh.

946
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:09,879
Speaker 2: It'me's Cody Johnston. I host a show called some More

947
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 2: News on YouTube. I cost a show called even More

948
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 2: News on Place where Podcasts Live that's now on YouTube

949
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,400
Speaker 2: as well. I'm in a band called the Hot Shapes.

950
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 2: I have to mention go check that out on the

951
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 2: band camp soundclouds.

952
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:28,320
Speaker 3: There's a drum set currently right behind Cody.

953
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,320
Speaker 2: So there is a drum set currently that's true, a

954
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 2: mandolin and a mandlin. I don't actually play the drums

955
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 2: in the band.

956
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:35,359
Speaker 3: Damn.

957
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 1: Sorry, oh you have like a park Those are like

958
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 1: those are quiet practice drums. The symbols look like the

959
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 1: rubber or something. They are nice, smart.

960
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 2: They're serviceable for what I need them for which yea, yeah,

961
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 2: make that phones and doing that. Yeah, so check out

962
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 2: the hot shapes. I like us were going on a

963
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 2: new album right now. And I think that's probably all

964
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 2: the stuff I do. Tell thea to shit in his

965
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 2: own mouth sometimes on Twitter, uh the everything X or

966
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 2: whatever the fuck. But yeah, I'm doctor mister Cody.

967
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:07,839
Speaker 1: I learn about new people to hate, buy your shit

968
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: talk because I don't keep up with modern politics. For shit,

969
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 1: I like think I do, but then I like every

970
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 1: day there's like a new guy that everyone's been mad

971
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 1: at for ten years that I've never heard of. But

972
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 1: I haven't seen you tell the wrong person to shit

973
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: in their own mouth. So I'll take it, thank you.

974
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 2: I will. I will do my best to continue that streak.

975
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:27,720
Speaker 2: And yeah, I'm doctor mister Cody. And all the social stuff.

976
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 2: If you want to see that kind of thing. Hell yeah,

977
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 2: I'm nice sometimes too.

978
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 1: Yeah no, I yeah, I feel bad that I am

979
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: highlighting this part of you. Also, I want to make

980
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 1: it clear I don't think that you have pos your drums.

981
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: They are awesome. It is cool that you have drums

982
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:43,439
Speaker 1: that are not designed to antagonize your neighbors. But still,

983
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: oh yeah, no.

984
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:46,359
Speaker 2: I try to. Yeah, yeah, one day. If I have

985
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 2: a you know, real house, like a basement or roge

986
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 2: or something, I might do that. Yeah.

987
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 1: I have a drum set in my basement, but it's

988
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 1: mostly there to antagonize my dog totally. Yeah, if you

989
00:49:55,760 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 1: want to hear my uh oh. I have bands. I

990
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 1: do band called Feminosgical, where I also don't play the drums,

991
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 1: but I do program the drums and people every now

992
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 1: and then like, oh, it's a black metal but all

993
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,720
Speaker 1: these things are synthetic. Okay, so most black metal bands

994
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 1: have fake accordions and real drums and guitars. We have

995
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 1: fake guitars and drums, but we have real accordions, piano, mountain, dulcimer.

996
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 1: I play a Dane axe on one song. Everything that's

997
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 1: a weird instrument is real, and then all the basic

998
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: instruments are fake. And it's called and we're on wherever

999
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 1: you want to listen to it.

1000
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,320
Speaker 2: I have a dulcimer in the other room. Oh hell yeah,

1001
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 2: I'm trying to get a new strings for it because

1002
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 2: it's old made. It's not the right type. I keep

1003
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 2: ordering them. It's never the right type. But huh.

1004
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 1: One day harpkit dot com. This is a free plug.

1005
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 1: Is where I get my strings for weird folk instruments,

1006
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 1: and also it's where I get kits to build instruments from.

1007
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 2: Oh that's exactly my next thing I'm gonna do. Oh yeah, no,

1008
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:55,360
Speaker 2: this is perfect. This is my pandemic copy. This is

1009
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 2: my free plug for this company that I have no

1010
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,320
Speaker 2: affiliation with, but I've made like six of their instruments

1011
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 2: from kits and they're really high quality and like they

1012
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 2: make me feel like I'm a really good woodworker, except

1013
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:05,360
Speaker 2: for the ones that I completely fuck up and break

1014
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:07,359
Speaker 2: and then I feel like a shitty woodworker and out

1015
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:09,240
Speaker 2: a bunch of money because they're not cheap kits because.

1016
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,839
Speaker 1: They may just do it againstruments. That's what I did actually, yeah,

1017
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 1: actually was Mike Dulcimer. I built it from a kit,

1018
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:15,800
Speaker 1: and the first one I built, I just didn't know

1019
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:17,840
Speaker 1: what I was doing, and I like ripped up the

1020
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 1: soundboard while I was trying to cut sound holes in it,

1021
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 1: and then I had to Also.

1022
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:25,319
Speaker 2: Those like Dulsons are pretty like thin, yeah, supervisually, so

1023
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 2: it's hard to imagine. I imagine it's hard to construct

1024
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 2: one anyway.

1025
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: Is showing you guy, I think you want to plug. No, okay,

1026
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:36,720
Speaker 1: well you can catch serene on. It could happen high.

1027
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 3: I know, I always try to avoid it.

1028
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 1: You do it anyway.

1029
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 3: I am one of the rotating hosts that it could

1030
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 3: happen here. I usually cover Middle East stuff right now.

1031
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 3: It's a lot about Palestine, or I do silly food

1032
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 3: episodes or history episodes to keep myself sane. So you

1033
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 3: can see me or hear me there. You will not

1034
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 3: see me anywhere.

1035
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 1: That's the dream, all right, See you all on Wednesday. Bye.

1036
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1037
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool Zone Media,

1038
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 1: visit our website

1039
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 3: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1040
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.