Speaker 1: Hey, film Spotters. The film Spotting archive has reviews, top
Speaker 1: fives and more going back to two thousand and five.
Speaker 1: This week, with Selene Song's Materialists new in theaters, we're
Speaker 1: sharing our twenty twenty three review of Song's debut Past Lives.
Speaker 2: Past Lives narrowly missed our top tens in twenty twenty
Speaker 2: three out them, but we did both like it quite
Speaker 2: a bit. From June twenty twenty three. Here's that review.
Speaker 3: What a good story this says.
Speaker 1: Childhood sweethearts to reconnect twenty years later and realized they
Speaker 1: were meant for each other, and the story I would
Speaker 1: be the eviloid American husband's standing in the way of destiny.
Speaker 1: Shut up. We just can't get away from storytelling. Here
Speaker 1: on this week's film Spotting, a bit from the trailer
Speaker 1: for Past Lives, the feature debut from writer director of
Speaker 1: Selene's Song. We have been hearing about this film, Josh,
Speaker 1: since January, when it premiered at sun Dance to almost
Speaker 1: universal acclaim. It was then picked up by A twenty
Speaker 1: four for distribution. That's usually a good sign, and then
Speaker 1: in May it was program is part of the Chicago
Speaker 1: Critics Film Festival. More people we like and trust got
Speaker 1: to see it and praise it. I will ask you
Speaker 1: if it managed to live up to all the hype
Speaker 1: in a second, but we will quickly set up the plot.
Speaker 1: The clip you heard more or less tells you everything
Speaker 1: you need to know. Twenty years or so after getting separated,
Speaker 1: when one of them emigrates from Korea to Canada, two
Speaker 1: former childhood sweethearts reunite, complicating things. The one that left
Speaker 1: Greta Lee's Nora is happily married to John Mazarro's Arthur.
Speaker 1: The long lost friend, Hey Sung is played by you Tail.
Speaker 1: A simple story, Josh, why all the praise?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: A lot of reasons? This is delicately and quite beautifully made,
Speaker 2: especially for a feature directorial debut. I think for me
Speaker 2: the storytelling is just an intriguing premise and interestingly handled
Speaker 2: inventively spun out as a narrative. For me, it's these
Speaker 2: two performances. I just stunned at the sense of connection
Speaker 2: they could establish between these two characters who are mostly
Speaker 2: not together. And then what happens when they do come
Speaker 2: together is this electricity that is, it's like an impossible
Speaker 2: scenario romance, which we've seen others of those but I
Speaker 2: don't think those always capture the combination of rigria and
Speaker 2: romance that are all taking place in one scene. And
Speaker 2: again it's due to songs staging to her decision of
Speaker 2: when to bring them together and how to bring them together.
Speaker 2: That's absolutely a part of it. But it's just these
Speaker 2: two in You and Lee, the way they I mean,
Speaker 2: we talked about you know who did we like that
Speaker 2: are a little bit Shortzman or Johansson in Astroid City.
Speaker 2: And I don't want to always pit two leads against
Speaker 2: each other. But for me, when I think about this movie,
Speaker 2: Lee is wonderful. You're just kind of like Crumple inward.
Speaker 2: When I think about how tail You looks at her,
Speaker 2: how Hessong looks at Norah here when she's looking at him,
Speaker 2: when she's not looking at him, it is the mo
Speaker 2: It is the saddest thing I think I've seen an
Speaker 2: screen in a long time, and the way he embodies that.
Speaker 2: This is an actor I'm mostly unfamiliar with. He was
Speaker 2: in decision to leave and a number of other projects
Speaker 2: he's been in, but this is the first time I've
Speaker 2: really watched him closely. It's stunning what he can encompass
Speaker 2: without saying much, and then when he does deliver some
Speaker 2: of these lines written by song, it's just like punches
Speaker 2: you in the gut after you've already kind of like
Speaker 2: been crumpled.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really wonderful performance, right, and they both are.
Speaker 1: But I too, And I just saw this late last
Speaker 1: night and am still thinking about it quite a bit.
Speaker 1: When I think about the film and I think about
Speaker 1: the moments that are the most kind of subtly devastating,
Speaker 1: I am thinking about his face. And I think part
Speaker 1: of that is that, for lack of a better term,
Speaker 1: there's a little bit of a puppy dog to him.
Speaker 1: He seems to be the one who is holding on
Speaker 1: to feelings more strongly about her, for sure, and there's
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons for that, including that she has
Speaker 1: moved on and she's gotten married. But I think it
Speaker 1: actually fits with their characters too. And I'm not going
Speaker 1: to ruin the line at all, because there's a great
Speaker 1: revelation between the two characters, and even saying that makes
Speaker 1: it seem bigger than it is. No, it's a it's
Speaker 1: a profound moment, but it's not a huge plot development
Speaker 1: or treated like an epiphany, because this is a movie
Speaker 1: that is really about these small interactions and these quiet moments.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about that a little bit more,
Speaker 1: but there's there's a realization about the differences between them,
Speaker 1: or the main difference between them, and that's who She is,
Speaker 1: the one to have some ambition and to want to
Speaker 1: always be moving forward, and he's the one who wants
Speaker 1: to stay in the past a little bit more. Well,
Speaker 1: you read that, You read that in every every look,
Speaker 1: every time he looks at her, you sense that in him,
Speaker 1: And for me, You're right. Delicate's a great word. This
Speaker 1: is a movie that is in that same realm as
Speaker 1: films by directors like Celine Siama and Koganata, where they
Speaker 1: are full of dramatic tension. There is conflict, but the
Speaker 1: film at no point escalates any of it. And I
Speaker 1: think it ends exactly where it should and how it should.
Speaker 1: But all I could think about, Josh was Wow, this
Speaker 1: is where a lot of films that would be mining
Speaker 1: similar material. This is where they'd be just beginning. This
Speaker 1: would be this would be at best the middle of
Speaker 1: the film, and maybe maybe more, because those movies would
Speaker 1: be all about taking those tensions and trying to ratchet
Speaker 1: them up. And create more drama, and ultimately it would
Speaker 1: probably be more mellow dramatic, and we don't get even
Speaker 1: a hint of that here in this film.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it ends just perfectly for what it
Speaker 2: wants to do in the story that it's telling. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's fascinating to think about as you're describing his character.
Speaker 2: You're right, and those qualities that make us both feel
Speaker 2: drawn to him and remember him. I think there's a
Speaker 2: braveness to Lee's performance as Nora that she doesn't shy
Speaker 2: away from making Nora somewhat of the harder character, the
Speaker 2: more driven character. And so maybe it's not fair for
Speaker 2: us to say, well, I like this performance better, because
Speaker 2: really she they're just giving us who these characters need
Speaker 2: to be. This relationship would not evolve this way if
Speaker 2: Nora were less driven, less headstrong, less independent. Those are
Speaker 2: all qualities that are positive qualities of hers. It's why
Speaker 2: she's able to make her way through this early childhood
Speaker 2: while middle school when her family immigrants experience. It's why
Speaker 2: she's able to establish this artistic career and move to
Speaker 2: New York City and have the level of success that
Speaker 2: she does have. So these are all good qualities, but
Speaker 2: when we're seeing them strictly through the lens of this relationship,
Speaker 2: it's tempting to say, oh, man, like, if only she
Speaker 2: would open up to him a little more, that's kind
Speaker 2: of what we want. But again, the trick of this
Speaker 2: movie is that they're just more learning that where they've
Speaker 2: ended up is probably where they should be. And perhaps
Speaker 2: she just comes to recognize that a little sooner than
Speaker 2: him because of her internal makeup, her psychology. And that's okay,
Speaker 2: But you do still come away feeling not that they
Speaker 2: should have gotten together, that he was right, that his
Speaker 2: pining should have been real warded. I don't mean that
Speaker 2: at all, but it's just more in terms of the
Speaker 2: character that at least I became a little more attached to.
Speaker 2: And you can see it in the way, you know
Speaker 2: these are separate sections. When they do separate again, she's
Speaker 2: the one who says goodbye, and you know, at least
Speaker 2: in the first two rather curtly, these are decisive. It's
Speaker 2: again part of her character, like we're separating, that's what
Speaker 2: I've decided it's gonna happen, and this is how, and
Speaker 2: it's just done, and he's kind of left there in
Speaker 2: you know that beautiful shot that she actually returns to
Speaker 2: of diverging alleyways that they separate as kids. We see
Speaker 2: early on. It's like in the first ten minutes that's
Speaker 2: how Nora knows the path she's going to, and she's
Speaker 2: gonna head up it after sayta quick goodbye, and he
Speaker 2: is going to linger a bit and look uncertainly at
Speaker 2: the direction he's going to head away from her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and everything you said is true. But part of
Speaker 1: the magic of this movie, in both the performance of
Speaker 1: Greta Lee and so songs writing and direction, is that
Speaker 1: you never feel as if she's somehow cold no, or
Speaker 1: that she's not. She's not responding to him with as
Speaker 1: much longing or at least strength of feeling that he's
Speaker 1: also showing. And they're processing it in different ways, including
Speaker 1: she is the one, as you said, who earlier on
Speaker 1: because they this is something I didn't get from the
Speaker 1: from the trailer, they actually do reunite earlier in their lives,
Speaker 1: and then where we see a good chunk of the film,
Speaker 1: they're now twelve years beyond that. So we see him
Speaker 1: twice come together, but they separate each time for an
Speaker 1: expanse of time, and you you understand that she's making
Speaker 1: that decision, but she's also making it and she's making
Speaker 1: that tough call because of the weight, the weight of
Speaker 1: this relationship on her and the fact that it doesn't
Speaker 1: seem to ever have the potential future that they both want.
Speaker 1: So you are always feeling both sides of her character.
Speaker 1: And what is I think you could say a dilemma,
Speaker 1: this dilemma of this this space that is between them.
Speaker 1: I won't say it's a disappointment because I didn't. I
Speaker 1: didn't hold it against the movie, Josh. But maybe where
Speaker 1: it was different than my expectations is I just got
Speaker 1: the sense from the trailer that it might be even
Speaker 1: a little bit more poetically realized, a little more experimental visually,
Speaker 1: how it sort of danced around in time, and it's
Speaker 1: fairly linear. You know, it starts in the past, it
Speaker 1: works up to the present. There are these occasional flashes
Speaker 1: back to who they were and moments they shared together,
Speaker 1: but it is all beautifully observed, and those flashes to
Speaker 1: the past are perfectly employed. Yeah, and I also think
Speaker 1: that that song intrinsically understands and feels exactly when to
Speaker 1: use and hold on a longer take and let the
Speaker 1: moment play out in front of us, utilizing two shots
Speaker 1: as well, versus relying on a lot of cross cutting
Speaker 1: or putting them in their own individual frames. We are
Speaker 1: often looking at these characters together. Now, there's also some
Speaker 1: moments where there's three characters in this space, but the
Speaker 1: camera is only showing us too. Yes, and that matters
Speaker 1: a lot as well. But it's always about the shared
Speaker 1: experience that they're having. And so then I think that's
Speaker 1: what heightens as well, every look and gesture and reaction.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the filmmaking, You're right, those insert shots of
Speaker 2: earlier moments, meaning twelve to twenty four years earlier moments
Speaker 2: are perfectly handled in one to drop them in and
Speaker 2: how long to hold them, not to push it too hard.
Speaker 2: And also what I liked about her filmmaking style was
Speaker 2: the way she moves the camera. I think you said patiently,
Speaker 2: which is right. It's almost as if the camera is
Speaker 2: going to slowly track along or even pan until it
Speaker 2: finds exactly what it is looking for. A couple of
Speaker 2: early examples of that would be when she does announce
Speaker 2: as a middle schooler, as a young girl in class
Speaker 2: at school to another girl that her family is leaving,
Speaker 2: and the camera kind of starts on that conversation and
Speaker 2: then slowly finds its way without cutting to see Hassung
Speaker 2: sitting there hearing this, and you get the sense this
Speaker 2: is maybe the first time he's heard it, maybe not,
Speaker 2: but it's it's really becoming real for him in that moment.
Speaker 2: And I just like how we don't start with him
Speaker 2: and overhear it. The camera just slowly moves there. Another shot,
Speaker 2: and this is later. It's a jump ahead when he's
Speaker 2: serving in the army and the camera starts on a
Speaker 2: bunch of young men sitting eating their food. I think everyone,
Speaker 2: almost everyone is eating alone. It's a very despondent, lonely scene.
Speaker 2: And it starts with a different group of soldiers until
Speaker 2: it drifts to the left and then finds him and
Speaker 2: he's there alone.
Speaker 1: We even have to find we have to find him
Speaker 1: as viewers have to pick him out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, good point, because he's not the only person on
Speaker 2: the screen. And then it rests there and lets us
Speaker 2: watch him. Those are just two minor examples, but that's
Speaker 2: felt kind of like the primary style she employed, which
Speaker 2: again is thoughtful, contemplative and to your point, allowing us
Speaker 2: to consider maybe not in that last example, but the
Speaker 2: classroom one. Everyone involved in this drama.
Speaker 1: Well, how about just the economy of it too. Twelve
Speaker 1: years later, the first shot we get after that text,
Speaker 1: I think it says twelve years pass is this military
Speaker 1: moment and them all eating, and it lasts maybe thirty seconds.
Speaker 1: I feel like that's really all we get of him
Speaker 1: in that moment. It's as if that's that's enough. Zilian
Speaker 1: Song understands that, like just from getting the feeling of
Speaker 1: the loneliness of that scene and understanding that he was
Speaker 1: in the military, Like, we are getting some information about him,
Speaker 1: but we're getting it just through twenty to thirty seconds
Speaker 1: of really, I think a single shot. And this is
Speaker 1: something that it's in the trailer, this concept that's invoked
Speaker 1: of of Inyon. I hope I'm saying somewhat correctly, this
Speaker 1: idea of fate people coming together as if they were
Speaker 1: destined to and and they've encountered each other in past lives,
Speaker 1: as the title suggests. But I love how the movie
Speaker 1: doesn't overplay that doesn't doesn't try to get sort of
Speaker 1: too mystical with it, and yet watching it you do
Speaker 1: feel I felt the whole time that I I was
Speaker 1: watching characters, and certainly by by the end of where
Speaker 1: it comes out, I felt as if I was watching
Speaker 1: characters who were part of something larger that that they're
Speaker 1: They're considering these these important questions about about their identities,
Speaker 1: not just love and happiness, but but fundamentally who they
Speaker 1: are as as people and who they who they want
Speaker 1: to be as people. And where I'm going with this
Speaker 1: is this is a half baked idea. Again, I haven't
Speaker 1: had enough time to actually try to come up with
Speaker 1: an eloquent or maybe logical way of phrasing this, Josh,
Speaker 1: but I felt by the end that Past Lives is
Speaker 1: the year's other great multiverse movie, despite the fact that
Speaker 1: it's so grounded in everyday life and it's not as
Speaker 1: if we actually travel to any alternate universes or other realities.
Speaker 1: But I felt as if these characters truly were part
Speaker 1: of this larger continuum, that there might actually be other
Speaker 1: versions of these three characters interacting with each other past, present,
Speaker 1: and future.
Speaker 3: He was just this kid in my head for such
Speaker 3: a long time, and then he was just this image
Speaker 3: on my laptop, and now he is a physical person.
Speaker 3: It's really intense but I don't think that that's attraction.
Speaker 3: I think I just missed him a lot. I think
Speaker 3: I missed soul.
Speaker 1: Did he miss you?
Speaker 3: I think he missed the twelve year old cry baby.
Speaker 3: He knew a long time ago you were a cry baby. Yeah,
Speaker 3: most of the time, he'd have to just stand there
Speaker 3: and watch me. When is the leaving again?
Speaker 2: When you consider the John Baguyro character, her husband, her
Speaker 2: eventual husband, which is a significant part, it's not just like,
Speaker 2: you know, he shows up once and yeah, we know
Speaker 2: who he is, and then that's always in our minds. No,
Speaker 2: he becomes an integral member participant in this story, which
Speaker 2: speaks to your point. I think about there's another universe
Speaker 2: where they do not meet, and she's actually we learn
Speaker 2: about that concept in Yon when she is speaking with
Speaker 2: him and first meets him out a writer's retreat. That's
Speaker 2: the first time it's introduced into the story. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: there are some maybe less Spider Verse and more everything
Speaker 2: everywhere all at once vibes going on here with the
Speaker 2: alternate romances that could have been.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and just connecting to that a little bit and
Speaker 1: going back to the klip we played. I also really
Speaker 1: do like the way song plays with that idea of
Speaker 1: narrative framing, and that the movie opens on the camera
Speaker 1: showing these three characters sitting together later in the film,
Speaker 1: sitting together from across the bar, and we only hear
Speaker 1: the voices of people. It's our eyes looking through the camera,
Speaker 1: but people saying, what's their story? Who are they to
Speaker 1: each other? Asking themselves all these things. Well, we of
Speaker 1: course are trying to make sense of that as well
Speaker 1: as viewers watching that, and we're paying attention to all
Speaker 1: of the body language and how they're sitting near each other,
Speaker 1: and who's looking at who, and who's smiling and is
Speaker 1: at a wistful face? And what does that mean? And
Speaker 1: then when we returned to that scene, it's not as if,
Speaker 1: at least in my recollection, song completely subverts it and
Speaker 1: turns it all on its head in some radical way.
Speaker 1: But I noticed all these these moments where the way
Speaker 1: I interpreted it as a viewer at the beginning, not
Speaker 1: knowing the characters and also not actually being able to
Speaker 1: hear what they're saying, it was completely different, Josh.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 1: It was a completely different experience later informed with more knowledge.
Speaker 2: That whole sequence where the three of them go out
Speaker 2: to dinner and then afterwards hang around for drinks as well.
Speaker 2: I will I'm very eager to watch quite closely on
Speaker 2: a revisit, and I will be seeing this movie again
Speaker 2: because it does ultimately work. But in the moment, as
Speaker 2: you're describing, there are some interesting choices in terms of
Speaker 2: where the camera's placed, as you said, who's in it
Speaker 2: and who's not, and the editing as well. That was
Speaker 2: a bit jarring, but has to be to a purpose,
Speaker 2: I'm saying, just because of the ultimate effect of the sequence,
Speaker 2: but also knowing how we've discussed, you know, the careful
Speaker 2: choice is made earlier. But it's a very complicated sequence
Speaker 2: in just the filmmaking, let alone the performances that are
Speaker 2: going on there.
Speaker 3: You strangers walk by each other in the street and
Speaker 3: their clothes accidentally brush. That means there have been eight
Speaker 3: thousand layers of emyon between them. Instead.
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