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Speaker 1: Hey, film Spotters. The film Spotting archive has reviews, top

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Speaker 1: fives and more going back to two thousand and five.

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Speaker 1: This week, with Selene Song's Materialists new in theaters, we're

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Speaker 1: sharing our twenty twenty three review of Song's debut Past Lives.

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Speaker 2: Past Lives narrowly missed our top tens in twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: three out them, but we did both like it quite

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Speaker 2: a bit. From June twenty twenty three. Here's that review.

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Speaker 3: What a good story this says.

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Speaker 1: Childhood sweethearts to reconnect twenty years later and realized they

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Speaker 1: were meant for each other, and the story I would

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Speaker 1: be the eviloid American husband's standing in the way of destiny.

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Speaker 1: Shut up. We just can't get away from storytelling. Here

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Speaker 1: on this week's film Spotting, a bit from the trailer

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Speaker 1: for Past Lives, the feature debut from writer director of

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Speaker 1: Selene's Song. We have been hearing about this film, Josh,

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Speaker 1: since January, when it premiered at sun Dance to almost

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Speaker 1: universal acclaim. It was then picked up by A twenty

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Speaker 1: four for distribution. That's usually a good sign, and then

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Speaker 1: in May it was program is part of the Chicago

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Speaker 1: Critics Film Festival. More people we like and trust got

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Speaker 1: to see it and praise it. I will ask you

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Speaker 1: if it managed to live up to all the hype

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Speaker 1: in a second, but we will quickly set up the plot.

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Speaker 1: The clip you heard more or less tells you everything

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Speaker 1: you need to know. Twenty years or so after getting separated,

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Speaker 1: when one of them emigrates from Korea to Canada, two

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Speaker 1: former childhood sweethearts reunite, complicating things. The one that left

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Speaker 1: Greta Lee's Nora is happily married to John Mazarro's Arthur.

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Speaker 1: The long lost friend, Hey Sung is played by you Tail.

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Speaker 1: A simple story, Josh, why all the praise?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 2: A lot of reasons? This is delicately and quite beautifully made,

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Speaker 2: especially for a feature directorial debut. I think for me

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Speaker 2: the storytelling is just an intriguing premise and interestingly handled

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Speaker 2: inventively spun out as a narrative. For me, it's these

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Speaker 2: two performances. I just stunned at the sense of connection

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Speaker 2: they could establish between these two characters who are mostly

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Speaker 2: not together. And then what happens when they do come

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Speaker 2: together is this electricity that is, it's like an impossible

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Speaker 2: scenario romance, which we've seen others of those but I

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Speaker 2: don't think those always capture the combination of rigria and

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Speaker 2: romance that are all taking place in one scene. And

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Speaker 2: again it's due to songs staging to her decision of

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Speaker 2: when to bring them together and how to bring them together.

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Speaker 2: That's absolutely a part of it. But it's just these

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Speaker 2: two in You and Lee, the way they I mean,

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Speaker 2: we talked about you know who did we like that

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Speaker 2: are a little bit Shortzman or Johansson in Astroid City.

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Speaker 2: And I don't want to always pit two leads against

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Speaker 2: each other. But for me, when I think about this movie,

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Speaker 2: Lee is wonderful. You're just kind of like Crumple inward.

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Speaker 2: When I think about how tail You looks at her,

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Speaker 2: how Hessong looks at Norah here when she's looking at him,

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Speaker 2: when she's not looking at him, it is the mo

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Speaker 2: It is the saddest thing I think I've seen an

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Speaker 2: screen in a long time, and the way he embodies that.

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Speaker 2: This is an actor I'm mostly unfamiliar with. He was

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Speaker 2: in decision to leave and a number of other projects

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Speaker 2: he's been in, but this is the first time I've

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Speaker 2: really watched him closely. It's stunning what he can encompass

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Speaker 2: without saying much, and then when he does deliver some

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Speaker 2: of these lines written by song, it's just like punches

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Speaker 2: you in the gut after you've already kind of like

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Speaker 2: been crumpled.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really wonderful performance, right, and they both are.

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Speaker 1: But I too, And I just saw this late last

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Speaker 1: night and am still thinking about it quite a bit.

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Speaker 1: When I think about the film and I think about

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Speaker 1: the moments that are the most kind of subtly devastating,

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Speaker 1: I am thinking about his face. And I think part

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Speaker 1: of that is that, for lack of a better term,

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Speaker 1: there's a little bit of a puppy dog to him.

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Speaker 1: He seems to be the one who is holding on

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Speaker 1: to feelings more strongly about her, for sure, and there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of reasons for that, including that she has

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Speaker 1: moved on and she's gotten married. But I think it

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Speaker 1: actually fits with their characters too. And I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to ruin the line at all, because there's a great

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Speaker 1: revelation between the two characters, and even saying that makes

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Speaker 1: it seem bigger than it is. No, it's a it's

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Speaker 1: a profound moment, but it's not a huge plot development

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Speaker 1: or treated like an epiphany, because this is a movie

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Speaker 1: that is really about these small interactions and these quiet moments.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about that a little bit more,

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Speaker 1: but there's there's a realization about the differences between them,

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Speaker 1: or the main difference between them, and that's who She is,

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Speaker 1: the one to have some ambition and to want to

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Speaker 1: always be moving forward, and he's the one who wants

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Speaker 1: to stay in the past a little bit more. Well,

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Speaker 1: you read that, You read that in every every look,

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Speaker 1: every time he looks at her, you sense that in him,

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Speaker 1: And for me, You're right. Delicate's a great word. This

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Speaker 1: is a movie that is in that same realm as

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Speaker 1: films by directors like Celine Siama and Koganata, where they

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Speaker 1: are full of dramatic tension. There is conflict, but the

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Speaker 1: film at no point escalates any of it. And I

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Speaker 1: think it ends exactly where it should and how it should.

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Speaker 1: But all I could think about, Josh was Wow, this

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Speaker 1: is where a lot of films that would be mining

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Speaker 1: similar material. This is where they'd be just beginning. This

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Speaker 1: would be this would be at best the middle of

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Speaker 1: the film, and maybe maybe more, because those movies would

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Speaker 1: be all about taking those tensions and trying to ratchet

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Speaker 1: them up. And create more drama, and ultimately it would

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Speaker 1: probably be more mellow dramatic, and we don't get even

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Speaker 1: a hint of that here in this film.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it ends just perfectly for what it

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Speaker 2: wants to do in the story that it's telling. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's fascinating to think about as you're describing his character.

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Speaker 2: You're right, and those qualities that make us both feel

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Speaker 2: drawn to him and remember him. I think there's a

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Speaker 2: braveness to Lee's performance as Nora that she doesn't shy

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Speaker 2: away from making Nora somewhat of the harder character, the

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Speaker 2: more driven character. And so maybe it's not fair for

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Speaker 2: us to say, well, I like this performance better, because

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Speaker 2: really she they're just giving us who these characters need

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Speaker 2: to be. This relationship would not evolve this way if

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Speaker 2: Nora were less driven, less headstrong, less independent. Those are

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Speaker 2: all qualities that are positive qualities of hers. It's why

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Speaker 2: she's able to make her way through this early childhood

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Speaker 2: while middle school when her family immigrants experience. It's why

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Speaker 2: she's able to establish this artistic career and move to

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Speaker 2: New York City and have the level of success that

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Speaker 2: she does have. So these are all good qualities, but

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Speaker 2: when we're seeing them strictly through the lens of this relationship,

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Speaker 2: it's tempting to say, oh, man, like, if only she

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Speaker 2: would open up to him a little more, that's kind

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Speaker 2: of what we want. But again, the trick of this

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Speaker 2: movie is that they're just more learning that where they've

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Speaker 2: ended up is probably where they should be. And perhaps

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Speaker 2: she just comes to recognize that a little sooner than

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Speaker 2: him because of her internal makeup, her psychology. And that's okay,

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Speaker 2: But you do still come away feeling not that they

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Speaker 2: should have gotten together, that he was right, that his

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Speaker 2: pining should have been real warded. I don't mean that

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Speaker 2: at all, but it's just more in terms of the

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Speaker 2: character that at least I became a little more attached to.

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Speaker 2: And you can see it in the way, you know

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Speaker 2: these are separate sections. When they do separate again, she's

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Speaker 2: the one who says goodbye, and you know, at least

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Speaker 2: in the first two rather curtly, these are decisive. It's

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Speaker 2: again part of her character, like we're separating, that's what

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Speaker 2: I've decided it's gonna happen, and this is how, and

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Speaker 2: it's just done, and he's kind of left there in

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Speaker 2: you know that beautiful shot that she actually returns to

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Speaker 2: of diverging alleyways that they separate as kids. We see

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Speaker 2: early on. It's like in the first ten minutes that's

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Speaker 2: how Nora knows the path she's going to, and she's

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Speaker 2: gonna head up it after sayta quick goodbye, and he

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Speaker 2: is going to linger a bit and look uncertainly at

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Speaker 2: the direction he's going to head away from her.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and everything you said is true. But part of

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Speaker 1: the magic of this movie, in both the performance of

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Speaker 1: Greta Lee and so songs writing and direction, is that

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Speaker 1: you never feel as if she's somehow cold no, or

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Speaker 1: that she's not. She's not responding to him with as

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Speaker 1: much longing or at least strength of feeling that he's

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Speaker 1: also showing. And they're processing it in different ways, including

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Speaker 1: she is the one, as you said, who earlier on

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Speaker 1: because they this is something I didn't get from the

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Speaker 1: from the trailer, they actually do reunite earlier in their lives,

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Speaker 1: and then where we see a good chunk of the film,

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Speaker 1: they're now twelve years beyond that. So we see him

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Speaker 1: twice come together, but they separate each time for an

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Speaker 1: expanse of time, and you you understand that she's making

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Speaker 1: that decision, but she's also making it and she's making

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Speaker 1: that tough call because of the weight, the weight of

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Speaker 1: this relationship on her and the fact that it doesn't

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Speaker 1: seem to ever have the potential future that they both want.

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Speaker 1: So you are always feeling both sides of her character.

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Speaker 1: And what is I think you could say a dilemma,

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Speaker 1: this dilemma of this this space that is between them.

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Speaker 1: I won't say it's a disappointment because I didn't. I

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Speaker 1: didn't hold it against the movie, Josh. But maybe where

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Speaker 1: it was different than my expectations is I just got

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Speaker 1: the sense from the trailer that it might be even

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Speaker 1: a little bit more poetically realized, a little more experimental visually,

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Speaker 1: how it sort of danced around in time, and it's

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Speaker 1: fairly linear. You know, it starts in the past, it

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Speaker 1: works up to the present. There are these occasional flashes

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Speaker 1: back to who they were and moments they shared together,

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Speaker 1: but it is all beautifully observed, and those flashes to

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Speaker 1: the past are perfectly employed. Yeah, and I also think

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Speaker 1: that that song intrinsically understands and feels exactly when to

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Speaker 1: use and hold on a longer take and let the

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Speaker 1: moment play out in front of us, utilizing two shots

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Speaker 1: as well, versus relying on a lot of cross cutting

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Speaker 1: or putting them in their own individual frames. We are

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Speaker 1: often looking at these characters together. Now, there's also some

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Speaker 1: moments where there's three characters in this space, but the

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Speaker 1: camera is only showing us too. Yes, and that matters

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Speaker 1: a lot as well. But it's always about the shared

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Speaker 1: experience that they're having. And so then I think that's

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Speaker 1: what heightens as well, every look and gesture and reaction.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So the filmmaking, You're right, those insert shots of

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Speaker 2: earlier moments, meaning twelve to twenty four years earlier moments

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Speaker 2: are perfectly handled in one to drop them in and

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Speaker 2: how long to hold them, not to push it too hard.

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Speaker 2: And also what I liked about her filmmaking style was

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Speaker 2: the way she moves the camera. I think you said patiently,

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Speaker 2: which is right. It's almost as if the camera is

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Speaker 2: going to slowly track along or even pan until it

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Speaker 2: finds exactly what it is looking for. A couple of

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Speaker 2: early examples of that would be when she does announce

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Speaker 2: as a middle schooler, as a young girl in class

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Speaker 2: at school to another girl that her family is leaving,

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Speaker 2: and the camera kind of starts on that conversation and

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Speaker 2: then slowly finds its way without cutting to see Hassung

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Speaker 2: sitting there hearing this, and you get the sense this

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Speaker 2: is maybe the first time he's heard it, maybe not,

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Speaker 2: but it's it's really becoming real for him in that moment.

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Speaker 2: And I just like how we don't start with him

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Speaker 2: and overhear it. The camera just slowly moves there. Another shot,

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Speaker 2: and this is later. It's a jump ahead when he's

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Speaker 2: serving in the army and the camera starts on a

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Speaker 2: bunch of young men sitting eating their food. I think everyone,

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Speaker 2: almost everyone is eating alone. It's a very despondent, lonely scene.

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Speaker 2: And it starts with a different group of soldiers until

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Speaker 2: it drifts to the left and then finds him and

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Speaker 2: he's there alone.

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Speaker 1: We even have to find we have to find him

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Speaker 1: as viewers have to pick him out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, good point, because he's not the only person on

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Speaker 2: the screen. And then it rests there and lets us

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Speaker 2: watch him. Those are just two minor examples, but that's

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Speaker 2: felt kind of like the primary style she employed, which

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Speaker 2: again is thoughtful, contemplative and to your point, allowing us

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Speaker 2: to consider maybe not in that last example, but the

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Speaker 2: classroom one. Everyone involved in this drama.

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Speaker 1: Well, how about just the economy of it too. Twelve

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Speaker 1: years later, the first shot we get after that text,

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Speaker 1: I think it says twelve years pass is this military

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Speaker 1: moment and them all eating, and it lasts maybe thirty seconds.

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Speaker 1: I feel like that's really all we get of him

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Speaker 1: in that moment. It's as if that's that's enough. Zilian

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Speaker 1: Song understands that, like just from getting the feeling of

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Speaker 1: the loneliness of that scene and understanding that he was

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Speaker 1: in the military, Like, we are getting some information about him,

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Speaker 1: but we're getting it just through twenty to thirty seconds

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Speaker 1: of really, I think a single shot. And this is

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Speaker 1: something that it's in the trailer, this concept that's invoked

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Speaker 1: of of Inyon. I hope I'm saying somewhat correctly, this

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Speaker 1: idea of fate people coming together as if they were

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Speaker 1: destined to and and they've encountered each other in past lives,

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Speaker 1: as the title suggests. But I love how the movie

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Speaker 1: doesn't overplay that doesn't doesn't try to get sort of

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Speaker 1: too mystical with it, and yet watching it you do

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Speaker 1: feel I felt the whole time that I I was

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Speaker 1: watching characters, and certainly by by the end of where

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Speaker 1: it comes out, I felt as if I was watching

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Speaker 1: characters who were part of something larger that that they're

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Speaker 1: They're considering these these important questions about about their identities,

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Speaker 1: not just love and happiness, but but fundamentally who they

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Speaker 1: are as as people and who they who they want

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Speaker 1: to be as people. And where I'm going with this

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Speaker 1: is this is a half baked idea. Again, I haven't

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Speaker 1: had enough time to actually try to come up with

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Speaker 1: an eloquent or maybe logical way of phrasing this, Josh,

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Speaker 1: but I felt by the end that Past Lives is

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Speaker 1: the year's other great multiverse movie, despite the fact that

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Speaker 1: it's so grounded in everyday life and it's not as

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Speaker 1: if we actually travel to any alternate universes or other realities.

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Speaker 1: But I felt as if these characters truly were part

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Speaker 1: of this larger continuum, that there might actually be other

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Speaker 1: versions of these three characters interacting with each other past, present,

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Speaker 1: and future.

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Speaker 3: He was just this kid in my head for such

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Speaker 3: a long time, and then he was just this image

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Speaker 3: on my laptop, and now he is a physical person.

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Speaker 3: It's really intense but I don't think that that's attraction.

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Speaker 3: I think I just missed him a lot. I think

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Speaker 3: I missed soul.

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Speaker 1: Did he miss you?

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Speaker 3: I think he missed the twelve year old cry baby.

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Speaker 3: He knew a long time ago you were a cry baby. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: most of the time, he'd have to just stand there

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Speaker 3: and watch me. When is the leaving again?

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Speaker 2: When you consider the John Baguyro character, her husband, her

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Speaker 2: eventual husband, which is a significant part, it's not just like,

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Speaker 2: you know, he shows up once and yeah, we know

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Speaker 2: who he is, and then that's always in our minds. No,

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Speaker 2: he becomes an integral member participant in this story, which

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Speaker 2: speaks to your point. I think about there's another universe

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Speaker 2: where they do not meet, and she's actually we learn

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Speaker 2: about that concept in Yon when she is speaking with

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Speaker 2: him and first meets him out a writer's retreat. That's

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Speaker 2: the first time it's introduced into the story. So, yeah,

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Speaker 2: there are some maybe less Spider Verse and more everything

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Speaker 2: everywhere all at once vibes going on here with the

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Speaker 2: alternate romances that could have been.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and just connecting to that a little bit and

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Speaker 1: going back to the klip we played. I also really

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Speaker 1: do like the way song plays with that idea of

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Speaker 1: narrative framing, and that the movie opens on the camera

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Speaker 1: showing these three characters sitting together later in the film,

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Speaker 1: sitting together from across the bar, and we only hear

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Speaker 1: the voices of people. It's our eyes looking through the camera,

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Speaker 1: but people saying, what's their story? Who are they to

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Speaker 1: each other? Asking themselves all these things. Well, we of

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Speaker 1: course are trying to make sense of that as well

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Speaker 1: as viewers watching that, and we're paying attention to all

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Speaker 1: of the body language and how they're sitting near each other,

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Speaker 1: and who's looking at who, and who's smiling and is

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Speaker 1: at a wistful face? And what does that mean? And

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Speaker 1: then when we returned to that scene, it's not as if,

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Speaker 1: at least in my recollection, song completely subverts it and

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Speaker 1: turns it all on its head in some radical way.

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Speaker 1: But I noticed all these these moments where the way

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Speaker 1: I interpreted it as a viewer at the beginning, not

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Speaker 1: knowing the characters and also not actually being able to

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Speaker 1: hear what they're saying, it was completely different, Josh.

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Speaker 3: It was.

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Speaker 1: It was a completely different experience later informed with more knowledge.

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Speaker 2: That whole sequence where the three of them go out

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Speaker 2: to dinner and then afterwards hang around for drinks as well.

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Speaker 2: I will I'm very eager to watch quite closely on

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Speaker 2: a revisit, and I will be seeing this movie again

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Speaker 2: because it does ultimately work. But in the moment, as

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Speaker 2: you're describing, there are some interesting choices in terms of

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Speaker 2: where the camera's placed, as you said, who's in it

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Speaker 2: and who's not, and the editing as well. That was

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Speaker 2: a bit jarring, but has to be to a purpose,

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Speaker 2: I'm saying, just because of the ultimate effect of the sequence,

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Speaker 2: but also knowing how we've discussed, you know, the careful

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Speaker 2: choice is made earlier. But it's a very complicated sequence

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Speaker 2: in just the filmmaking, let alone the performances that are

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Speaker 2: going on there.

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Speaker 3: You strangers walk by each other in the street and

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Speaker 3: their clothes accidentally brush. That means there have been eight

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Speaker 3: thousand layers of emyon between them. Instead.

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