1 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: This is me eat podcast calling at you shirtless severely 2 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: bug bitten in my case underwear listening podcast. You can't 3 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: forget anything, alright, Virgil, let's just start out and have 4 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: you just get right into it. Introduce yourself, like right 5 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: off for anybody even says anything interesting. Thanks Steve. I'm 6 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:38,480 Speaker 1: Virgil Warm director and Idaho Fishing Game. Um, it's the 7 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 1: greatest job in the world. Like, that's the top that's 8 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: the top dog individual. Well, I have you, but yeah, 9 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: in our agency, um, the director uh oversees the operations 10 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: of the entire agency and you, guys in the crowning 11 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: achievement of your career, right, is this passage of the 12 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: new pine squirrel season? Well, I won't say it's a 13 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: crowning achievement. Yeah. A couple of years ago, one of 14 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: our commissioners just asked the question can we kill Plaine squirrels? 15 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: You know, they're commonly known as red squirrels, And the 16 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:20,119 Speaker 1: the answer was they're protected wildlife. And then he goes, why, Yeah, 17 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's always been that way. Yeah. This 18 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: came up because we I was just talking about how 19 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: last night we were eating some pine squirrels for dinner. 20 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:34,839 Speaker 1: And I was saying, how everywhere that I've ever lived 21 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: lists the pine squirrel or red squirrel um as a 22 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: non protected, non game species mean no close season, no 23 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: bag limit. And I would have never have guessed the 24 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: Idaho was an exception to that, because like people don't 25 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: really get after them. You know, they're a common household pest, 26 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: because if a squirrel gets in your attic, it's probably 27 00:01:54,720 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: a pine squirrel. In the northern tier States, um, they pray. 28 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: A surprising thing is they pray on snowshoe hair leveretts. 29 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: Do you know that in in Alberta, they did a 30 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: mortality study on snowshoe hairs and most of the ones 31 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: that went missing were found in pine squirrel mittens. I 32 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: got a body that watch would kill a bird one time. 33 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 1: A Yeah, they like to kill. They like to kill 34 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: snowsh your hair leveretts, and they're like the baby birds 35 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: out of nests. But we'll see the pine scenes. They're 36 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: they're stashes, their mittens, whatever you want to call them, 37 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: become an important food source in the winter for some 38 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 1: birds and other wildlife because they can get into those 39 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: stashes and you see grizzlies in the spring will come 40 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,119 Speaker 1: out and excavate them, you know, pull them all out. 41 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 1: So you guys realize there's no season for him, and 42 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: what kind of magic needs to happen. You know, It's 43 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: not as easy as just waving a wand and saying 44 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: the season's open. We had to go through rulemaking to 45 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: make them non protected first, and then we had to 46 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: go through the process of proposing a season, getting public comment, 47 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: and then the Commission approving it. They just finally approved 48 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 1: that at their last commission meetings. So we will have 49 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 1: a pine squirrel season from one extreme to the other. 50 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: It's eight per day, twenty four in possession, so and 51 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: it's got an open season that'll be from August through 52 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: marcht one, so you know there's a close period and 53 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 1: that conforms with our open season for other um rabbits 54 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: and other small games. So just for consistency reasons, we 55 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: kept all of that. You're gonna run them like small game. 56 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: Do you guys have any regulations around and I don't 57 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: imagine you have thriving populations of fox and gray squirrels. Uh, 58 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: we do have thriving populations of fox and gray squirrels, 59 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: mostly in urban areas, and uh, there is no protection 60 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: on those. You can kill as many of those as 61 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: you want because they're because they're a non native. There 62 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: are non native non protected wildlife because most of them 63 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: are in urban areas were discharged of firearms is prohibited. 64 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: Um that we don't see much use of them, although 65 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: there are a few folks, uh that that utilize them. 66 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a Missouri native. I was raised. Probably 67 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: the first thing I killed was either a rabbit or squirrel, 68 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 1: so one of the two had to be what I 69 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 1: was shooting at exactly. Um next to Virgil Chris, Chris 70 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: just hanging out. Chris is the old friend of mine 71 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: who should you should come out of the show a 72 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: lot more? I want to Yeah, I mean my friends, 73 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: I'm not a big podcast listener. I watched the show 74 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:41,559 Speaker 1: of the Mediator show all the time, but my friends 75 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 1: listened to it all the time. I told him when 76 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 1: I was doing today, they said, seriously, are you kidding me? 77 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: Anti podcast listen? No, Um, I'm not. But to steal 78 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 1: an old favorite phrase of yours that you stole from 79 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: Ian Fraser. You know, hunting or fishing is something I'd 80 00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: rather do than talk about. So um, I'm not Antipope cast. 81 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 1: I just I write a lot, and I need uh. 82 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,359 Speaker 1: When I'm done writing, I need to get out of 83 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: the word world. You know. Just listen to silence, you know. 84 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: I remember reading somewhere that people are saying you can't 85 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: appreciate music without appreciating silence, because music is an interruption 86 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: of silence. Sure. I bet John Cage would love that, right. 87 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 1: I don't know who said, I'm just gonna act like 88 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: I said that. I remember an old squirrel hassan fop 89 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: for meal that you made. You remember that? Yeah, man, Yeah, 90 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: we used to get after him right here in town, 91 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 1: right here. But uh, you know live trap nowise and squirrels? 92 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: Oh is that how you're getting them? In? Other ways? 93 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 1: We go, we go honest, we go out of state 94 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: that we'd go, you know, hunt them around. Uh plug 95 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 1: your book real quick. Okay, Well, my my last book 96 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 1: is called Body of Water. It's a nonfiction book from 97 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 1: Milkweed Editions about uh really that centers around a man 98 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 1: named David Pender who was the first Bahamian bone fishing guy. Uh. 99 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: He went to uh he grew up on a small 100 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: island called deep Water Key, and a rich Floridian man 101 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: named Gil Drake, Floridian man named Gil Drake actually bought 102 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: an island from the Crown um the English Crown called 103 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: deep Water Key and hired David Pender too excavate the 104 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: mangroves from the island, and over time hired Pender to 105 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: be his first fishing guide bone fish guide in the Bahamas. 106 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: So Pender made about five dollars a day at the time, 107 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 1: and over the last fifty or so years, the bone 108 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: fishing industry has become the trux of the eco to 109 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: tourism industry in the Bahamas, so a hundred and fifty 110 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: million dollars a year. Basically, this little fish that we 111 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 1: used to throw into Purina food bags has become the 112 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: crux of an island, the entire island's economy. Really, first 113 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: bone fish I ever saw, and this is the way 114 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: after bone fish became what bone fish are. The first 115 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 1: one I ever saw is leading dead on the side 116 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: of the road. Where is that Mexico? He's done on 117 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: the side of the road with the weirdest thing. I 118 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: was like, Oh, it's not how you want to see 119 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: your first bone fish. In the r day, a buddy 120 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: mine from Hawaii sent me a picture just a classic 121 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: grip and grim with a whole bunch of dead bonefish 122 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: lander because they make fish patties out of here, they 123 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: call it. Then they don't. They catch mountain deep water, 124 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: huge bonfish my brother called a big bone fish and 125 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: a hundred feet of water in Hawaii. Right, So they 126 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: don't look like they're like a flats fish. They're they 127 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: act like they're just a fish to eat, a bony 128 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: ass fish to eat. Right. I remember your your discussion 129 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: in meat Eat or the book about your first experience 130 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: releasing these fish. That's when I found my first dead 131 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: one on the side of the road like a road 132 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: killed bone fish, and then caught my first ones and 133 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: let them go. And meanwhile we like killed every other fish. 134 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: We didn't know what it was to like fuel our 135 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: journey to let bone and fish go because you gotta 136 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: eat something. We pull fish out like what's that, I 137 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: don't know, eat it and let all that, let all 138 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: the old ones go. Did you ever end up beating 139 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: a bone fishing bone fish one? What was it? Like? 140 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: You said, just boning paying the fine white flesh. Totally fine, 141 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: you gotta pick it. To quote and Fraser again, who 142 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: I think might have stole this from John McPhee, but 143 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: he's talking about eating rochad right, and he said, it's 144 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: kind of like fixing a watch, like picking the meat, 145 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:32,719 Speaker 1: like all the bones. You know. It feels like you're 146 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: like dismanling a watch to get it apart. But I 147 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: ate one down there, barracoutaite a lot of those kind 148 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: of fish. But it's a cool book. We should maybe 149 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: sometimes dedicate the whole conversation about the books. It tells 150 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: the story about a fish that no one cares about 151 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: becoming a fish that's like a billion dollar industry. Yeah, 152 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: we should. I'll come back anytime. I'm glad you're living 153 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: in Bozeman. Now. I remember when you used to speaking 154 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: of picking fish, remember fishing for whitefish and making something. 155 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: I was talking about that yesterday. Yeah, tedious, but great recipe. 156 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: Um on down the line. Oh yeas w you have 157 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: headsets on? What are you doing? Just monitoring? They're just 158 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: taking yeah, entourage. Oh yeah, let's go ahead. Then we're 159 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: gonna dive into and then we're gonna dive into all things, uh, 160 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: fisheries and wildlife management. Yeah, tell us from the Meat 161 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: Eater Crew, Virgil, can you start out I have a 162 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: thousand things to ask you. One of the questions I 163 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: want to ask you later once we get going, is 164 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 1: when you hear hunters and anglers talk bad about fish 165 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: and game, what are the most legitimate complaints and what 166 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: are the least legitimate complaints? But I don't want to 167 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: talk about that yet, but just know that that's coming, 168 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: so dig deep to try to give a thing like 169 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: what is the most legitimate complaints that you found in 170 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: your career in the lifetime of service? I think first, 171 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 1: I think could be interesting to talk about where your 172 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: department sort of ends, and you can make it general 173 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,559 Speaker 1: like the IDAHO right is your area of expertise, but 174 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,199 Speaker 1: you probably enough exposure from all the other agencies to 175 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: like like where where does what does the Game Commission? 176 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: And what is its relationship to your department? And and 177 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: how do you move from one of those? I think 178 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: that this is this is something that's not well understood, 179 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: and it might be a good basis for the conversation here. 180 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: That really is And I certainly our Game Commission Idahoe 181 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 1: Fish and Game Commission is integral to our agency. Uh. 182 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: They are the policy and regulatory setting body for the 183 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: department Officient Game. As director, I set as the director 184 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: of the Idaho Department of Fishing Game. I'm also a 185 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: non voting member of the Idaho Fishing Game Commission. My 186 00:10:54,000 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 1: other title is Secretary Officient Game, and that interfaces the Department, 187 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: through the Director and the Commission in Idaho. The Director 188 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,679 Speaker 1: serves at the pleasure of the Commission, a seven person 189 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: board appointed by the Governor UH for staggered four year terms. 190 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: They can be appointed to two terms confirmed by the 191 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: Senate as confirmed by the state Senate. Our commissioners are 192 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: as a director appointed by a commission, I do not 193 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:32,719 Speaker 1: have to go through that that political process with the legislature. 194 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: They do that, and so that's the firewall or the 195 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: buffer that's there. But the governor selects those commissioners and 196 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: the commission. The governor selects the commissioners, the commissioner selects you, 197 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: the director, and you have a term limit of two 198 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: terms for the commissioners, so they can serve two four 199 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: year terms. And then they turn out the director has 200 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: no term limit, so you can keep going and keep 201 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: goingment Now it's you serve the pleasure and so at 202 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: any time for commissioners decide they want somebody new, you've 203 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: got your walking papers. How many commissioners are there seven 204 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: and that varies, okay, but they set the rules. So, 205 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: for instance, we talked about and I don't want to 206 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: put too much into this because it's a pretty small 207 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: issue pine squirrel season that has the goal of the 208 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: commission right, correct, But the Commission draws so much of 209 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: their information from the Department because the Commission's not doing 210 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 1: not game surveys. So that's where the Department and Commission 211 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: are linked in. The first initiative in the state of 212 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: Idaho was approved by voters in the state that created 213 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: the Commission prior to ninety eight. We were formed as 214 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: an agency in eight the Department Official Game prior to that, 215 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: the director was appointed by the governor. It was completely 216 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: partisan and most of the st spoils the war and 217 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: it is and many of the staff were non professional 218 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: and it was a very partisan UH structure. Decline of 219 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: trying to recover Elkords, trying to get hunting back and 220 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: going in the twenties and thirties, UH failed miserably because 221 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: we didn't have that professional workforce out there doing the 222 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 1: survey work. The initiative formed the Commission and put the 223 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: Commission in its position of hiring the director and gave 224 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: very specific roles to each body and the department access 225 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: staff and managers of that public trust that's out there. 226 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 1: The Commission is the the trust holder along with the 227 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: legislature UH, they are the ones that are responsible for 228 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,679 Speaker 1: how to how to UH deal with that trust. We 229 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: just make recommendations and manage it per their direction. So 230 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 1: up until the time pine squirrels were protected, that was 231 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: the direction. Then they decided they as the UH trust manager, 232 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: they wanted to do something different. We said, there's not 233 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 1: a problem biologically. They went on with the rules. And 234 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: so we interact very closely with our commission. Who how 235 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: often does the Commission butt heads of the department like 236 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: meaning presuming there's people in the Commission who have an 237 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: extagrind right like because they're from different walks of life, 238 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: is it happens? We don't see it a lot. UH. 239 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: Generally the Commission tries to work as a team together, 240 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: but they are appointed to represent geographic areas of the state, 241 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: and they're they're pretty much they have a district and 242 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: those that district is very similar to our administrative regions. 243 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: So we've got seven of those. And every so often 244 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: you see um a difference in the way that the 245 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: commissioners themselves to go. As director, I manage the agency 246 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: to make recommendations. Where we have a disconnect is if 247 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: for some reason, through public input, somebody wants a season change. 248 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: But someone said, hey, there's I'm seeing fewer and fewer deer, 249 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: and then you look and you he actually is probably 250 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: seeing fewer and fewer deer. Let's say it's legitimate, and 251 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: as an individual, I suspect that that's the case they 252 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: are seeing. But our survey work, we look at it 253 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: and we go, you know, we killed more deer last 254 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: year in that unit than we've ever killed before. Our 255 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: survey information says that the buck doo ratios in there 256 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: are above policy. And so you have that disconnect between 257 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: what you see in the spot you hunt and what 258 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: we see when we try to manage a larger piece 259 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: of real estate. And so that goes to the commission. 260 00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: They get public input all the time, like that. We're 261 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: in the idle of it right now with some deer 262 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: setting stuff that's going on, Like tell me what you mean, 263 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: white tailed deer. We're we're adopting a new white Tailed 264 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: Deer plan, and in that process the question of do 265 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: we know what we're talking about in this particular piece 266 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: of real estate versus what the data is for game 267 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: management units on a larger piece. And and so the 268 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: Commission is in a situation where the biological information would 269 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: suggest one thing, and what individuals that are motivated to 270 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: get involved in the decision making process show up at 271 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: a public meeting say that isn't right. And you know what, 272 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: they're probably not wrong about where they're hunting, what they 273 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: see their specific spot, but what it does that mean 274 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: that that's the way it is everywhere. And that's the 275 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: kind of wisdom and balancing that the Commission has to 276 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: go through to sort through. Here's the science as we're 277 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: trying to present it to you, and here's the public 278 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: input that has some veried input. We can tell you 279 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: all about this, but I can't say that what Joe 280 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 1: Hunter over here sees is incorrect. And so that is 281 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 1: where the beauty of the Commission processes. They're there to 282 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: balance out perhaps the scientific information that we provide them 283 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 1: with some of the input from the public of what 284 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 1: they desire. As trust Um users, they're the they're the 285 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: ones who get the benefit of that public trust of wildlife. 286 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: We manage it. The Commission is a trustee for that 287 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,640 Speaker 1: and and so we go back and forth through that 288 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:41,159 Speaker 1: process UH constantly with with our commission. Most of the 289 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:46,640 Speaker 1: time nine ten per cent of what is out there 290 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: for public input, we get good public input. We get 291 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: agreement with the biological information it goes through. We just 292 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: approved phishing regulations for three years, a new phish management 293 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: plan for six years. At this last commission neating two 294 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: weeks ago took fifteen minutes, no dissenting anything. It took 295 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: a year, took a year of public input to get 296 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:11,959 Speaker 1: to that point. But by the time we got to 297 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: that point, we didn't have any issues. That's not true 298 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:22,679 Speaker 1: with our deer, elk and other wildlife management issues. We 299 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: had no dissenting votes on point squirrels, So that one 300 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 1: went pretty easy. Brings people together together. But but white 301 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: tail deer are a big thing right now. They tell 302 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: me what because there's a lot of them, not a 303 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:39,919 Speaker 1: lot of them we're seeing um because of way hunting 304 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: occurs in Idaho with the ability to move around. We 305 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: have a white tail tag for the late season white 306 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: tail hunt. UM that that you have to decide whether 307 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 1: you're gonna hunt during the early mule deer in general 308 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: deer season, or whether you want to hunt white tail only. 309 00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: And you get that white tail tag. A lot of 310 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: people prefer white too, I do, and and consequently they 311 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: all go to these really neat spots and so they're 312 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: seeing a lot more hunters. So you're out there driving 313 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: around where you go buy and you see six camps 314 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: in the spot you didn't see but one camp four 315 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: or five years ago. Then you go out hunting and 316 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: you don't see the deer immediately. There's a problem. And 317 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: this is occurring in the clear Water and several other 318 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,919 Speaker 1: units around that, coupled with loss of access on private lands, 319 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:39,199 Speaker 1: creates this uh perception that hunting for me isn't as 320 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 1: good as it used to be, and people perception is 321 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: correct for that person. People are attributing this to forcing 322 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: people to make this decision about what they want to hunt. 323 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: That's part of it. They're also saying there's too many 324 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 1: non residents, and non residents can be both people from 325 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: out of state as well as people like myself from 326 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: Boise coming up into their area to hunt UH. And 327 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: it's it's that social tension that comes with using a 328 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: resource out there. And as users, you've probably all seen that. 329 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: I know, I do. Uh. You see it whether you're 330 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:17,120 Speaker 1: fishing or hunting. I get away from it by hunting 331 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: later in the season so I don't have to deal 332 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 1: with it, or I fish later in the season or 333 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 1: during the shoulder periods. Montana, as an example, has their 334 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 1: shoulder hunting seasons that they use right now. To try 335 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: to distribute some of that, we try to use our 336 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: regulations to do that, but it at some point we 337 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:41,880 Speaker 1: still have the people seeing something different than what are 338 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: biological data. So some of the and I'll jump to 339 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:50,199 Speaker 1: your question, you know, what are the legitimate complaints for us? 340 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:54,199 Speaker 1: Add something. One of the writers that writes for us 341 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: on our website, Pat dirk And, did a piece for 342 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: us about comparing success rates hunter success rates with surveys 343 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: about hunter satisfaction. He's the basic I mean, just to 344 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: really take something long and complex and make it short, 345 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: as people are just generally not happy, not happy, Like 346 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 1: you take a relative picture a year to year of 347 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 1: like what was good hunting and bad hunting, then to 348 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: ask people to put a personal spin on it that 349 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: generally viewed as being more negative than it was. I 350 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 1: wouldn't totally agree with that dot our survey that we 351 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 1: recently did on um mule, they're in whitetail hunters. Everybody's happy. No, 352 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, and I'm gonna say everybody's better, but 353 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: but most people are satisfied or very satisfied. Based on 354 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: the survey work we did. It varies depending on the geography, 355 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: it varies on what they're after. One of the things 356 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,360 Speaker 1: that we are in Idaho by commission direction, we're an 357 00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: opportunity state. We're all about being able to hunt every year. 358 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,360 Speaker 1: We're all about giving people that chance to get out 359 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: there and to accomplish that. We have to have that 360 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: that ability to hunt every year, you're going to have 361 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: fewer older growth animals than you would if if you 362 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 1: didn't go for that opportunity. And so that is an 363 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: opportunity state versus a on a quality state. Utah has 364 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,360 Speaker 1: UH and this is based on their public input down 365 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: there and a large number of hunters there in different 366 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: productivity chose years ago to go with a quality system 367 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: that produced a larger proportion of the herd as four 368 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: point animals. Idaho has quality. Don't get me wrong. It's 369 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: just we manage the productivity of that herd so that 370 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,239 Speaker 1: we can utilize that productivity for as many hunters as 371 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: possible while still producing a pretty good number of four 372 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 1: point animals, whether they're mule deer or whitetail. We talked 373 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: about this too as being like some states are kind 374 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 1: of split. The Colorado's quality on a mule deer opportunity 375 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 1: on elk correct and and part of it has to 376 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: do with the number of animals that are there. In general, 377 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: ar mule deer haven't been doing as well as our elk, 378 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: although in Idaho, with with some of the work we've 379 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: been doing, as well as the easy winners we've had 380 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: and the better survival on fonds, our mule deer are 381 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 1: really up. But half of our deer harvest is whitetail 382 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,479 Speaker 1: in Idaho. The other half is all those dudes up 383 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 1: in the Panhandle. And it's because we got a lot 384 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 1: of them, and and people are turning onto them because 385 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 1: they taste better. Now that's just my that's my bias. 386 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: I'll put it this way. When my wife is not 387 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: a hunter, but she is a consumer, and when I 388 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: go hunting, I generally get orders as to what she 389 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,880 Speaker 1: prefers that bring home and and uh a white tail 390 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 1: are much higher on the list than a stinky old 391 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: mule deer. As she puts it, now, I find them 392 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 1: both very flavorful. I like the flavor. They're both distinct 393 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: and different, and enjoy eating both. In the ticket, she puts, 394 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,159 Speaker 1: just keep telling her just get your own ticket and 395 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: come out hunting with me. But really, late, I want 396 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 1: to get in your bio from it. But lay a 397 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: good piece of marriage advice on us. Listen to your spouse, 398 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: bring home my white til. Can I ask a question 399 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: about so when you guys are prioritizing, um, you know, 400 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: an initiative or or you know this uh the new 401 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: squirrel uh listing. I mean, are you thinking, well, that's 402 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: gonna be an economic boon for the state. I mean 403 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 1: it's the squirrel thing, or I'm kidding a little bit. 404 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 1: But how how much are you prioritizing like revenue potential 405 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:05,160 Speaker 1: revenue over the resource or is it certainly um? Idaho 406 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: gets no general funds okay. Our revenue is generated by 407 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: predominantly license sales, as well as contract money and the 408 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: excise tax on hangingd fishing equipment. Pittman, Robertson and Danel Johnson. 409 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,399 Speaker 1: What's the contract money. Contract money is mitigation money like 410 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,919 Speaker 1: from Bonneville Power to operate hatcheries for the mitigation of 411 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 1: dam's Idaho Power of Vista, Um, gosh, you name it. 412 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,360 Speaker 1: We get contract money to work with a b p A. 413 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 1: As an example, we've got contract money to do sage 414 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,160 Speaker 1: grousework for the Fish and Wildlife Service, but a lot 415 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: of it most of its mitigation money to operate hatcheries 416 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: for hydro power development, meaning the hydro power development impedes 417 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: fish movements and they got to make up for that 418 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: by running a hand correct, it's the state runs the 419 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 1: hatches for We operate the hatcheries that they built for 420 00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: those facilities, and and so that's a huge piece of 421 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: our budget. But as far as the discretionary funds that 422 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: we get, it's almost all license money, a little tiny 423 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: bit off of non game license plate sales. We have 424 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 1: a license plate system and that generates UH together about 425 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 1: two million dollars that runs that UH non game program 426 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: um that we have in the state. So back to 427 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 1: your question about what do we get. Do we take 428 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: economics into consideration. If it was a conservation issue where 429 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: you should hunt or not hunt? The answer is no. 430 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: But when you're looking at the way you conduct a hunt, 431 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: the way you you set seasons, how you allocate those 432 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,119 Speaker 1: tags to residents and non residents. Definitely, revenue is on 433 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: the table as it as an item to take a 434 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: look at, But by and large the Commission isn't as 435 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:59,159 Speaker 1: concerned with revenue as they are the social aspects of 436 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: how this effect hunters in the field. Um, I'll give 437 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 1: you an example. We dive into this. I mean, the 438 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 1: Commission just recently closed steelhead fishing in the state of Ida, 439 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:16,679 Speaker 1: and the economic effects of that are huge. Well, I 440 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 1: got a lot of but we had a public meeting 441 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: last week in Riggins. Now. Riggins is on the Salmon River, 442 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:31,360 Speaker 1: a very small community, uh that has mostly natural resource 443 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: based economy. Used to be timber that's gone. Now it's 444 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,119 Speaker 1: hunting and fishing, I mean, and whitewater rafting on the 445 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: main Salmon River. And the closure of a winter steelhead 446 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: fishery is millions of dollars to a community that is 447 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:53,719 Speaker 1: probably getting a third of their financial revenue from steelhead fishing, 448 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: another third from chinook, and the rest of it from 449 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: other outdoor based recreation activities, and so it hits a 450 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:06,400 Speaker 1: community like that hard over Christmas. Goodness, who's grinch here? 451 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: And I get it. Talked the numbers, I'm guessing why, 452 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,199 Speaker 1: but talking about what precipitated the closing. One of the 453 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: people decided no we um UM. We got served with 454 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 1: a notice of intent to be sued. UM and about 455 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: forty five days ago who was bringing the suit? It 456 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: was a group of five fish advocacy groups and river groups. 457 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,239 Speaker 1: UH that I felt like that the what we call 458 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: mixed stock fishery where we fish on the hatchery fish 459 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: these mitigation fish and there are wild listed steelhead in 460 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,479 Speaker 1: the river with him, felt that our fishery was harming 461 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,479 Speaker 1: those wild fish. Technically, the problem is we don't have 462 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: a permit to have that mixed stock fishery. It expired 463 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: in two thousand and ten. The federal age and see 464 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 1: responsible for that permit UH National Marine Fishery Service has 465 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: failed to issue that permit to us since two thousand 466 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: and ten. We have submitted it every year. We have 467 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: complied with the terms of the permit, but they have 468 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: been working on other areas that were very important for permitting. 469 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: UM and I can get into the technicalities of that, 470 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: but the point is we are guilty of not having 471 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: a permit. So here we're getting a notice Noah or 472 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: National Marine Fishery Services, go ahead and fish without the permit, 473 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: comply with the terms you submitted. We don't have time 474 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: to go through the process to give you that permit, 475 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: but we're not going to prosecute you under the Endangered 476 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 1: Species Act. The Endangered Species Acts as a citizens lawsuit 477 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: feature in it that allows private citizens to sue somebody 478 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: violating it. That was I mean, this has been going 479 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: on for eight years and then we get this notice 480 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: intent to sue. If you go to court and are 481 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: found to be guilty, I guess you would say we're 482 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: not in compliance, then the state has to pay all 483 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: the legal fees of the plaintiffs. And knowing what we knew, 484 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: we felt that it was not useful to go through 485 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: a legal defense when we really didn't have the permit 486 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: trying to convince a judge, and in all likelihood the 487 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: plaintiffs would have asked the judge for an emergency closure 488 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: while they started in and the end result would be 489 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: we would be paying the legal fees and we would 490 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: have a closed steelhead system. By closing the season, we 491 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: preclude them from taking us to court. So now the 492 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: decision to open it back up is still with the commission. 493 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: The permit will be done in March next spring. Were 494 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: a black eye, right, yeah, I and and deservedly so 495 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: we are. We probably could have been a little more 496 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: aggressive with seeing that this could happen. But frankly, I 497 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: knew for well, I've been director for eight years and 498 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 1: the whole time I knew we've been playing doing this, 499 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: and I felt because National Marine Fishery Service wasn't going 500 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: to prosecute us, that we were okay. I never thought 501 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: about our conservation friends and these other entities taking us 502 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 1: to court. Are these fisher Are these angler based groups? 503 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: For a couple of them are angler based groups, A 504 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: couple of them are river based groups, angler groups desiring 505 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: more wild fishing. Yeah, they've got a different agenda, and 506 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. Part of the agenda they 507 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: were willing to not sue us if we agreed to 508 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 1: go to no bait, single barbelous hooks fly fishing only 509 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: banned the useful boats. So they were trying to say 510 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: this was a conservation issue. But then they had this 511 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: string of things that would have precluded most of our 512 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: steelhead anglers from going fishing, just so that group could 513 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: get out there, the Catch and Release group basically, and 514 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: are the people of Riggings and that whole kind of 515 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 1: valley there. They upset mostly you guys were They're upset 516 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: that we allowed this to get to where it is. 517 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: But at the public meeting we had last week going 518 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: into town, there was a sign um, you know, public 519 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: meeting so and so play such and such time, and 520 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: they had the name of one of these groups just 521 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 1: plastered on there said not welcome. So yeah, they're they're 522 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: they're doing. I have a meeting tomorrow with the board 523 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: of one of these groups. The season doesn't take effect 524 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: until December the seventh, I think, is when it closes. 525 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: Terrible day, um, but we've got a little bit time 526 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: in here. We're still negotiating. We had a negotiated settlement 527 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: two weeks ago, and then when all of the planeffs left, 528 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: they came back a day later and said, no, we're 529 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: going to back away from our agreement. So I got 530 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: a couple of quick questions. First, for Chris, uh, you're 531 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: you're you're a fishing guide straight over to that country 532 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 1: at all I do not. I know, I couldn't had 533 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 1: that far down river. No, I grew up still heading 534 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: in Michigan. So, um, we don't have these problems. Now 535 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: we don't have these problems. But now I'm still lying 536 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: the bank with them down there, right. I spent most 537 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 1: most of the winter righting. So as soon as I'm 538 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 1: off the river in late October, I'm hanging up the 539 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: rods and the waiters and chasing the bird dog around. 540 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 1: But um, but do you hear guys griping about this? 541 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 1: So I didn't. I didn't even know about it, which 542 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 1: tells you how how often much I've been in the 543 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,239 Speaker 1: woods in the last month or so. But all you know, 544 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: most of the Missoula single Missoula fishing guides head over 545 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 1: there for for a good month, and you know, drag 546 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: a trailer over and right. For sure. It's fascinating to 547 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 1: me and and uh surprising too. Now here's my question 548 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:08,400 Speaker 1: for you, Virgil, on this issue. The average letter writer 549 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,400 Speaker 1: who writes in with a complaint. Um, let's say you 550 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: were to take all those people and make a pool 551 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 1: of them, So forget the average You're gonna take a 552 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: pool of all the people that have written a letter 553 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: of complaint, how many of those individuals if if you 554 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 1: had to guess what percentage of those individuals would be 555 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,319 Speaker 1: able to articulate the issue to the extent that you 556 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 1: just articulated it to me right now? Is it well 557 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 1: understood or do you find or are you baffled by 558 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 1: how not well understood it is. I'm baffled by how 559 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 1: not well understood it is. We're pushing the envelope. This 560 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: closure only occurred less than two weeks ago. In fact, 561 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: it'll be two weeks ago Wednesday, this coming Wednesday, and 562 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 1: so we're we're trying to get the word out there. 563 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 1: The form letters that I've been inundated with simply aren't accurate. 564 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 1: The misunderstand ending that there is a conservation benefit to 565 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 1: this closure, Uh is wrong. Okay, that there is a 566 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: catch and release mortality on these listed steelhead, but that 567 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: is less than three of handling, and that's a worst 568 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 1: case scenario. That's what that's what we use in our permit, 569 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: and we predict that three out of a hundred fish 570 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 1: handled may die as a result of that catch and 571 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: release fishery, and that's the impact that we will have 572 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: on these wildfish while we're catching and keeping hatchery fish. Okay, 573 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 1: and it's something all the states do. I mean, Washington 574 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,320 Speaker 1: has their permit in hand, they got a couple of 575 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: years ago. They got there's first. So the Washington part 576 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,320 Speaker 1: of the Snake River will stay open even though ours 577 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:54,319 Speaker 1: will close because it's it's border water. Oregon doesn't have 578 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: their permit for this fishery, but they're going to continue 579 00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 1: to fish because they didn't get sued, you know, and 580 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,360 Speaker 1: so he had It's a very selective um legal actions 581 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,319 Speaker 1: going to continue to fish or in the state of 582 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 1: Oregon will continue fish, as will Washington on the Snake 583 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 1: River portion. Our Salmon River and Clearwater rivers would be 584 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 1: the ones that are predominantly affected by this, as well 585 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 1: as Idaho licensed anglers who fish Hell's Canyon the Snake 586 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,240 Speaker 1: River portion. But you could continue to fish by buying 587 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,719 Speaker 1: a Washington license. That's the absurdity of some of this. 588 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,800 Speaker 1: But the bottom line is the catch and release fishery 589 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 1: is not the issue here. Um. This is partially a 590 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 1: social issue. This is partially an issue of these advocacy 591 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: groups trying to make a point that Idaho isn't doing 592 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 1: enough as a state on down river issues, and so 593 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: they're hitting us at home with a legal action on 594 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 1: our sport fisheries. And it really doesn't hurt the department. 595 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 1: It hurts the local communities, right you have. I mean, 596 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:08,359 Speaker 1: you you gave that, Um, you gave some percentages. But 597 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 1: what's what's the dollar figure? You know in the town 598 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 1: of Riggans. We've done the economic evaluation and I'm going 599 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:21,840 Speaker 1: to say the town of Riggins for this winter fishery 600 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,799 Speaker 1: is a million and a half dollars if my numbers now, 601 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 1: it doesn't sound like a lot of money. Not. I mean, 602 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,760 Speaker 1: there's less than a thousand people there in the wintertime. 603 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 1: There's probably half that been a big chunk of change. 604 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,239 Speaker 1: Be factor in population is a big deal. Clear Water, 605 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 1: you know, or Pheno that area there, Um, it gets 606 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 1: hit hard and the outfitters and guides that rely on 607 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: that and cater to that. I mean, I got a 608 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 1: heartfelt letter from a guide up on the clear Water 609 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,279 Speaker 1: and and he said, cash, it couldn't come at a 610 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 1: worse time. He goes, I don't make a lot of 611 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,160 Speaker 1: money during this period of time, but it's gonna cost 612 00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: me five thousand dollars in the next six weeks. It's 613 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: going to run my Christmas with my kids. Gosh, I 614 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,439 Speaker 1: just almost get into tears over something like that, and 615 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: it's like, well, dang, should we have not closed it? 616 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 1: Let it go to court fought and try to keep 617 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 1: it open as long as possible. We're still having that 618 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,880 Speaker 1: active discussion right now. But these actions that appear to 619 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: be just about the department and its management really are 620 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 1: about people and the people who use the resource and 621 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,799 Speaker 1: the communities that benefit from those resources. Walk me through 622 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 1: how you how you wound up where you are now? 623 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,799 Speaker 1: Like that, Were you aiming through your career in fish 624 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,960 Speaker 1: and wildlife to wind up in this position? Or does 625 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:44,880 Speaker 1: it never? I'm by training, I'm a fisheries scientist. I 626 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 1: was worked as a fisheries biology undergraduate degrees in education. 627 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 1: I taught high school, came to Ido, worked on fish 628 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 1: on steelhead as a matter of fact, and my yeah, 629 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 1: and I worked on steelhead and cutthroat. Um got on 630 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:03,480 Speaker 1: with the department to over forty years ago, uh and 631 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,360 Speaker 1: worked on the South Fork and the Snake River in 632 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,160 Speaker 1: Idaho on cutthroat trout in the late seventies and early eighties, 633 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,880 Speaker 1: on a problem we were having there with declining numbers 634 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:18,240 Speaker 1: in size of fish, and got an opportunity to manage 635 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 1: that fishery for about seven years. And that included that 636 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,359 Speaker 1: area that I was manager over, including the Henry's Fork 637 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:27,680 Speaker 1: and the South Fork of the Snake and some of 638 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: that greatest fishing country and well in the world. Maybe 639 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:36,160 Speaker 1: maybe Montana is close, but you know, we'll we'll give 640 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,279 Speaker 1: them since wire in Montana, I'll give him a little 641 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:44,319 Speaker 1: credit for having good fisheries. But the bottom line is 642 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 1: then I just worked my way up when I had 643 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:51,120 Speaker 1: an opportunity and various positions as state fish manager, fishery 644 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:56,400 Speaker 1: research manager, I was bureau chief over our communications program 645 00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 1: for a while, fisheries chief. I did a stint in 646 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,359 Speaker 1: Oregon as director for a year, went over there and 647 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,440 Speaker 1: um learned a lot. I consider it now as a 648 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,880 Speaker 1: one year sabbatical to a different state and had an 649 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,960 Speaker 1: opportunity to come back Tita, who as a deputy director 650 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,280 Speaker 1: and turned into a director's job. So it's a really 651 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,759 Speaker 1: short bio when you get down to it. It's just 652 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,080 Speaker 1: a lot of different opportunities and jobs, but it's all 653 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:26,240 Speaker 1: doing the same thing. It's working with people to manage 654 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:30,279 Speaker 1: their resources to provide what they want while having that 655 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:34,799 Speaker 1: foundation in our mission statement, which is preserved, protect, perpetuate, 656 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:39,880 Speaker 1: and manage for the benefit of the people. That resource 657 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:44,240 Speaker 1: can only be used when it's preserved, protected, and perpetuated. 658 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,200 Speaker 1: And when it is used, it's primary use is hunting, fishing, 659 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:52,680 Speaker 1: and trapping. That is in the code that formed our agency, 660 00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 1: that was given to us in by the people of 661 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:59,239 Speaker 1: the state. It was approved by the people in the 662 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:04,320 Speaker 1: state in um. A lot of people said, well that's dated, 663 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,000 Speaker 1: you know that was that was eighty some odd years 664 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,640 Speaker 1: I guess it was eighty years ago and it's no 665 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:16,480 Speaker 1: longer valid. Well, in two thousand twelve, we had an 666 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 1: initiative in this or we had a constitutional amendment the 667 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 1: right to hunt fishing trap, and in that amendment it 668 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,360 Speaker 1: had the right to hunt fishing trap is held uh 669 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,360 Speaker 1: to be a right for the people as a whole, 670 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:37,440 Speaker 1: not individuals as much, and that the primary method of 671 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 1: managing wildlife in the state of Idaho is hunting, fishing, 672 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 1: and trapping. So if you're gonna manage wildlife population should 673 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 1: do it with hunting, fishing and trapping. That got approved 674 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:52,680 Speaker 1: by seventy public right they want the public to do it. 675 00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,319 Speaker 1: That was approved by seventy of the people in two 676 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,520 Speaker 1: thousand twelve. Now if that is at an endorsement of 677 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,839 Speaker 1: the night and their should have moved it forward. So 678 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:08,000 Speaker 1: what we in Idaho have is the benefit of knowing 679 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:14,040 Speaker 1: from a participation in an in an election what it 680 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:18,400 Speaker 1: is the really big goals are. And that makes my 681 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:20,920 Speaker 1: job easy. If you flip the card over I gave you. 682 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,440 Speaker 1: On the back, there is our mission statement that's in code. 683 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,879 Speaker 1: That's the whole thing written out there, and it's three 684 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,799 Speaker 1: sentences long on the back of everybody's card. Now it's 685 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:34,239 Speaker 1: on the back of mine. But that's that's something I 686 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,000 Speaker 1: do so that I can because whenever I doubt what's 687 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:38,920 Speaker 1: going on, I just flip that over and read through 688 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,520 Speaker 1: it again. It's like, Okay, everything I need to know 689 00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:48,680 Speaker 1: is right there. So in Idaho, Uh, I'm switching gears 690 00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,759 Speaker 1: here a little bit um in Idaho. When you get 691 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,160 Speaker 1: when you get an email in the subject in the 692 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:58,360 Speaker 1: subject line is steel ahead or the subject line is 693 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,480 Speaker 1: grizzly bears? Which one are you more like? Oh no, 694 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,200 Speaker 1: because this is like you spent a lot of time 695 00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:11,480 Speaker 1: certainly um endangered species as a whole, and um, those 696 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,680 Speaker 1: two add in stage grounds and uh yeah, that's occupied 697 00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:19,719 Speaker 1: a fair amount of our time. Um, I will take 698 00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,719 Speaker 1: the steel head one any day of the week over 699 00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,120 Speaker 1: grizzly bear because you have a lot of person I 700 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,520 Speaker 1: have some of that, and we have more biological we have. Oh, 701 00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:36,080 Speaker 1: it's less value laden relative to managing fish. You know, 702 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 1: a wild steelhead is a phenomenal creature. I mean they 703 00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,520 Speaker 1: are there's nothing nothing like them on the end of 704 00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,960 Speaker 1: a fly rod and any kind of tackle, they're just awesome. 705 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:50,279 Speaker 1: They'd be cruising around out the ocean and uh on 706 00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,320 Speaker 1: the hatchery steelhead isn't far below that. But that certainly 707 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,319 Speaker 1: to have have that creature in your hand. But they're 708 00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:00,400 Speaker 1: still generally not thought of as individuals. They thought of 709 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,400 Speaker 1: as a population, as a run, as a school, you 710 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:09,480 Speaker 1: know that type. That's a good point and and consequently 711 00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:14,000 Speaker 1: the emotional attachment to them doesn't go to the individual level. 712 00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:24,520 Speaker 1: With megafauna, both big animals you know, bears, wolves, uh, cougars, um, 713 00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:28,560 Speaker 1: you name it, deer and elk um. It's lesser degree 714 00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:30,359 Speaker 1: than the other ones. Your name, Well, I guess you're 715 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:35,680 Speaker 1: doing it in order. Yeah, we call them charismatic megafauna, 716 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:40,799 Speaker 1: you know, big charismatic critters, and and they come with 717 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,360 Speaker 1: a whole different set of values where people try to 718 00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:48,560 Speaker 1: humanize those animals and their behavior, and consequently having a 719 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:53,160 Speaker 1: discussion about biology with folks who have that becomes way 720 00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,680 Speaker 1: more difficult. Can you sketch out um and go back 721 00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:57,840 Speaker 1: as far as you want. You can go all the 722 00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:00,680 Speaker 1: way back to vour whatever to help was, or you 723 00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:02,480 Speaker 1: can go back the last two or three years. But 724 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:07,000 Speaker 1: sketch out where Idaho sits and where things stand right now, 725 00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,800 Speaker 1: and do the grizzly one. And you can personalize that. 726 00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:11,799 Speaker 1: You can editorialize it however you want to do. But 727 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,520 Speaker 1: it's like tell a little narrative. We should be celebrating 728 00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,680 Speaker 1: the recovery grizzlies in the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem. We should 729 00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,920 Speaker 1: be ready to celebrate the delisting of grizzly bears here 730 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,880 Speaker 1: in the Northern Rockies in the Northern Continental Divide, just 731 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:28,240 Speaker 1: north of where we're at here in Missoulu right now. Um, 732 00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:32,919 Speaker 1: but I know in the in the Tri state area there, uh, 733 00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:37,360 Speaker 1: we have an excellent grizzly bear population that's properly managed. 734 00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:42,719 Speaker 1: We've got exceeded the management goals. We've answered every scientific 735 00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:47,320 Speaker 1: question in a legal arena, and to still have those 736 00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:54,760 Speaker 1: bears on the list because of legal issues, judicial issues, 737 00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,959 Speaker 1: to me, undermines the whole benefit of the Endangered Species Act. 738 00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:05,320 Speaker 1: We the agency that's in charge of like the agency 739 00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,680 Speaker 1: that oversees the population. Right now, they're saying it should 740 00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:11,160 Speaker 1: be delisted. Correct, Fish and Wildlife Service themselves believes it 741 00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:14,600 Speaker 1: should be delisted. They're the ruins who delisted it. They've 742 00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:18,279 Speaker 1: been told to relist them until such time as they 743 00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:23,319 Speaker 1: answer these legal questions. Now we will get them delisted, Okay, 744 00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,840 Speaker 1: whether it was last year, whether it's next year or 745 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:32,440 Speaker 1: three years out, because the population is secure, nothing about 746 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:36,680 Speaker 1: answering these legal questions. But this isn't about whether the 747 00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,960 Speaker 1: population is secure or not. It is about the fact 748 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:45,800 Speaker 1: that folks do not believe that the management tool of choice, 749 00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:50,480 Speaker 1: again going back to our constitutional amendment is hunting. So 750 00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:54,360 Speaker 1: when we have more bears or problem bears, our choice 751 00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,439 Speaker 1: is to have a hunter go out and take care 752 00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,479 Speaker 1: of that, versus having our staff go out and trap 753 00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:02,560 Speaker 1: the bear and get rid of it. Now we're gonna 754 00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,240 Speaker 1: have to do a combination, But I would much prefer 755 00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,480 Speaker 1: to use a hunter who buys a license and a 756 00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,719 Speaker 1: tag to go out on his own time to take 757 00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,640 Speaker 1: that animal and keep the population and check for the 758 00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:18,839 Speaker 1: social needs of the communities around there, then send one 759 00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:21,239 Speaker 1: of my staff out there to trap the bear and 760 00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:25,279 Speaker 1: then euthanize it unceremoniously. I believe that we have a 761 00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:29,319 Speaker 1: lot more respect for that wildlife we interact with in 762 00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,839 Speaker 1: that manner than we do with wildlife that we just 763 00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,919 Speaker 1: euthanize in a in a manner to kind of take 764 00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:39,240 Speaker 1: care of that nuisance. UM. Do you right now feel 765 00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:44,680 Speaker 1: as though do you feel that as though the fight 766 00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:48,200 Speaker 1: around grizzly bear delisting will want of being worse than 767 00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:49,880 Speaker 1: what happened around wolves, or do you feel like it 768 00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,080 Speaker 1: will follow that same pattern off you had like some 769 00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,600 Speaker 1: stops and starts, you had some lawsuities, but he eventually 770 00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:58,400 Speaker 1: wound up at least and Idaho, Montana, Wyoming. You wound 771 00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:03,160 Speaker 1: up with delisted will wolves and regulated hunting UM or 772 00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:05,120 Speaker 1: do you think this is fundamentally different it will play 773 00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,160 Speaker 1: out in a different way. It's I think it's fundamentally 774 00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,600 Speaker 1: the same, uh, And I do think it will play 775 00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:15,320 Speaker 1: out in a similar manner, But the anti hunting aspects 776 00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:19,319 Speaker 1: of it is even larger with grizzly bears than it 777 00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:24,000 Speaker 1: is with wolves, although it's very large with with wolves. Uh, 778 00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:29,319 Speaker 1: it's um. It's a very strong community of people out 779 00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:33,120 Speaker 1: there who believe in their values. And at the same 780 00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:37,560 Speaker 1: time it's it's part of where the frustration is. Because 781 00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:44,720 Speaker 1: delisted wildlife normal wildlife are under the sovereign trust responsibilities 782 00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:48,120 Speaker 1: of each individual state. There are a lot of people 783 00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:53,600 Speaker 1: that don't believe they're being heard and their needs are 784 00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:58,319 Speaker 1: being addressed by our commission. And I can tell you 785 00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,400 Speaker 1: they're being hurt. What you mean, like, what? What? What? 786 00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,440 Speaker 1: Groups of people? Give you an example. One of the 787 00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,240 Speaker 1: things that we were told they wanted was a buffer 788 00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:12,320 Speaker 1: around Yellowstone Park so we wouldn't have a celebrity bear 789 00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,120 Speaker 1: going outside of the boundary and getting shot and then 790 00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:20,120 Speaker 1: running back into the park. And and so I get, 791 00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,200 Speaker 1: I get that big enough already needs to become bigger, 792 00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:27,120 Speaker 1: and so the park we But they're saying, well, you 793 00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:31,200 Speaker 1: ignored us when we asked for that. No, we didn't 794 00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:34,319 Speaker 1: ignore it. We took it into serious consideration and looked 795 00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:37,120 Speaker 1: at it and said it was unmanageable to do because 796 00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:40,160 Speaker 1: grizzly bears can roam as much as sixteen to twenty 797 00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:43,120 Speaker 1: five miles outside of the park, and a wounded animal 798 00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:45,840 Speaker 1: could go right back in, whether it is a hundred 799 00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:50,080 Speaker 1: yards from the border at the border or five miles out, 800 00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:53,200 Speaker 1: you know, And it just wasn't a tenable thing for 801 00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:57,319 Speaker 1: us to address relative to that. But they were hurt. 802 00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:01,040 Speaker 1: It was discussed, but the vision didn't go the way 803 00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:05,080 Speaker 1: they wanted it. So they want to federalize management of 804 00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:08,200 Speaker 1: these species. And under the Endangered Species Act, that's a 805 00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:11,360 Speaker 1: Fish and Wildlife Service or its National Marine Fishery Service 806 00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:16,400 Speaker 1: for fishing and pinnipeds, for seals and sea lions and 807 00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,879 Speaker 1: um they wanted to to. They want to federalize as 808 00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:22,920 Speaker 1: many species as possible so the state doesn't have the 809 00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:26,160 Speaker 1: final say. And I believe at core that's a lot 810 00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:30,480 Speaker 1: of what's going on here. When when the delisting happened 811 00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:35,040 Speaker 1: in bears where what now has proved to be temporarily delisted, 812 00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:40,120 Speaker 1: you had three states that we're looking at assuming management. Okay, 813 00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:43,600 Speaker 1: you had Montana, Wyoming, and Idaho, and you want up 814 00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:45,719 Speaker 1: having like three what appeared to me to be three 815 00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:50,440 Speaker 1: very different responses to this in the hunting question, okay, 816 00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:54,840 Speaker 1: where Montana was fixing to sort of sit out the 817 00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:56,920 Speaker 1: hunting season, and I felt that that was kind of 818 00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,480 Speaker 1: a lame move. This is just me personally talking on 819 00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:01,839 Speaker 1: there's not Virgil. I'm not speaking for Virgil in their 820 00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:04,799 Speaker 1: the Idle Fishing Game or anyone. Just personally, I thought 821 00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:06,759 Speaker 1: it was a kind of a lame move because they're 822 00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:08,680 Speaker 1: sort of be like, I don't want the black eye. 823 00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:10,600 Speaker 1: I don't want to be caught in the controversy. I'm 824 00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:13,359 Speaker 1: gonna see how it plays out with Idaho and whelming Now, 825 00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:16,920 Speaker 1: Wyoming has kind of hosts more of that little subset 826 00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:19,879 Speaker 1: of the population of bears. They host more anyone else. 827 00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:22,719 Speaker 1: They were pretty aggressive. They were talking about, you know, 828 00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:28,080 Speaker 1: harvest and killing two grizzly bears. Idaho, in a curious way, 829 00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:30,400 Speaker 1: came in where they were going to issue a tag. 830 00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:36,399 Speaker 1: That's symbolic, right, It's symbolic, But that was our allocation. 831 00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:40,279 Speaker 1: So the tri state plan that we all three of 832 00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:46,560 Speaker 1: agreed to allocates the available mortality to the states based 833 00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:49,480 Speaker 1: on the size of the geography. I don't only have 834 00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:54,000 Speaker 1: six of that grizzly bear range, and so we get 835 00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:58,480 Speaker 1: a smaller portion of that available mortality to utilize. So 836 00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:01,040 Speaker 1: it wasn't just a symbolic no. No. It wasn't like 837 00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:02,480 Speaker 1: we want to do it, but we don't really want 838 00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:04,200 Speaker 1: to do it, so we do on our allocation was 839 00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:10,040 Speaker 1: like one point four one point five bears, okay, and yeah, 840 00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:12,480 Speaker 1: had I would have liked to borrowed a half a 841 00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:17,920 Speaker 1: bear from Montana or Wyoming, so that Tana's allocation was 842 00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:22,120 Speaker 1: I don't it was like seven or eight I think 843 00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:24,880 Speaker 1: I I. It may have been in the teens. I 844 00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:29,920 Speaker 1: I don't remember, but it's intermediate to Wyoming being the largest, 845 00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:33,279 Speaker 1: Montana the next, and Idahoe the smallest. How much you 846 00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:36,120 Speaker 1: talked to those guys a lot? Oh yeah, we we 847 00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:40,360 Speaker 1: We really don't. I I will tell you that the 848 00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:45,800 Speaker 1: tri state UH working relations between Montana, Wyoming, and Idaho 849 00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:51,319 Speaker 1: are top notch. We formed that during the wolf delisting things, 850 00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:57,040 Speaker 1: and we continually have constant and routine interactions. But the 851 00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:59,400 Speaker 1: other thing you have to understand is what states is. 852 00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:02,040 Speaker 1: We don't all manage exactly the same to get the 853 00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:06,960 Speaker 1: same output. The way I structure are hunting seasons under 854 00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:11,799 Speaker 1: the ability may be different than the way Wyoming or 855 00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:15,080 Speaker 1: Montana does it, but it is still under the same 856 00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:17,719 Speaker 1: state sovereignty, trying to provide for the needs of the 857 00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:21,200 Speaker 1: people that they have and as long as it is 858 00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:26,520 Speaker 1: above the bounds of conservation, there's really nothing wrong with that. 859 00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:29,839 Speaker 1: It's the way Utah does trophy. There's nothing wrong with 860 00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:33,439 Speaker 1: what Utah is doing with their trophy muletare managed. That's 861 00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:37,080 Speaker 1: what they chose to do. There's nothing wrong with Idaho 862 00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:41,520 Speaker 1: doing our management as opportunity. That's what we chose to do. 863 00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:46,839 Speaker 1: The differences are actually great to have because each state 864 00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:50,480 Speaker 1: is an experiment and wildlife management above that conservation threshold 865 00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,520 Speaker 1: that we can learn from each other. You have to 866 00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:56,160 Speaker 1: share information. We share information all the time. We have 867 00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:59,960 Speaker 1: a group we call the Western Association Official Wildlife Agents. 868 00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,919 Speaker 1: These and that group we come together twice a year 869 00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:07,840 Speaker 1: and interact with each other a lot. When I have 870 00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:10,120 Speaker 1: a meeting coming up in early January, and that's where 871 00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:13,600 Speaker 1: I'll meet with Montana Unwyolming again to discuss grizzly beary 872 00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:16,120 Speaker 1: issues and how to move forward. Were you guys on 873 00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:18,160 Speaker 1: the grizzly bear thing? Did you did you issue the tag? 874 00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:22,759 Speaker 1: We did issue the tag. Did you keep the person anonymous? Um? Yes, 875 00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:26,160 Speaker 1: we well with the name is available about any other 876 00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:30,600 Speaker 1: information about them is not by state law that they 877 00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:32,880 Speaker 1: had to call him up, and I guess so the 878 00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:36,680 Speaker 1: Commission took action at the last Commission meeting to brain 879 00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:41,759 Speaker 1: check that um opportunity to that individual for next year 880 00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:44,440 Speaker 1: because it was suspended by the U. S. Fish and 881 00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:49,000 Speaker 1: Wildlife Service. Once they were relisted, they can't have directed 882 00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:53,200 Speaker 1: sport mortality under yes, A does I don't have salvage 883 00:54:53,200 --> 00:55:00,480 Speaker 1: requirements for black bearths meet salvage requirements not me. The 884 00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:07,160 Speaker 1: Commission changed the meat retrieval portion of that one decade 885 00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:10,160 Speaker 1: or so ago. Yeah, And as I was guessing, they 886 00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:12,680 Speaker 1: weren't going to do a meat salvage requirement on grizzly bears. No, 887 00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:16,359 Speaker 1: that is not part of the requirement. And again that's 888 00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:19,320 Speaker 1: some of the variation you get from among states. Someone 889 00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:22,719 Speaker 1: told me how they were in a meeting and it 890 00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:24,640 Speaker 1: was like a it was a public comment period, and 891 00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,319 Speaker 1: some hunters were saying, well, you know, we should do 892 00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:31,360 Speaker 1: a you know, we're we're proposing this idea of a 893 00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:34,719 Speaker 1: meat salvage requirement, and some of the people who were 894 00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:38,439 Speaker 1: opposing the hunt we're sort of saying, like, uh, what's 895 00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:40,759 Speaker 1: the term I'm looking for when you say don't like 896 00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:44,239 Speaker 1: not infantilize, what does the word indulge. No, that's not it. 897 00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:46,440 Speaker 1: That's what I'm looking for. I don't know they're saying, like, 898 00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:52,200 Speaker 1: don't you know, don't do it man Kelly. It was 899 00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:53,640 Speaker 1: telling me the story and I can't remember the word 900 00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:56,160 Speaker 1: they use for it, but they're kind of like, don't 901 00:55:56,239 --> 00:56:01,440 Speaker 1: do this phony symbolic thing to greenwash this. But that 902 00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:04,120 Speaker 1: came to the word that he said that was used. 903 00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:07,520 Speaker 1: But they were sort of like rather than rather than 904 00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:11,960 Speaker 1: the opposition figures saying like, yes, I opposed the hunt, 905 00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:14,040 Speaker 1: but there is gonna be one. I agree that there 906 00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:16,319 Speaker 1: should be a meat salvage requirement. They wanted to make 907 00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:21,239 Speaker 1: sure it looked as bad as possible, agreed. I. No, No, 908 00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:23,919 Speaker 1: that's gonna confuse things too much. I'd rather there wasn't 909 00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:27,840 Speaker 1: because it's easier for us to bash it. Right. You. Certainly, 910 00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:32,600 Speaker 1: one of the things that we know as wildlife managers 911 00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:36,680 Speaker 1: for you and as hunters on your behalf, is that 912 00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:42,719 Speaker 1: support for hunting, that is, for traditional consumptive purposes in 913 00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:45,920 Speaker 1: the United States is very high. A recent survey that 914 00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:51,360 Speaker 1: I saw presented that was presented this last spring showed 915 00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:56,279 Speaker 1: that over the American public is supportive of traditional regulated 916 00:56:56,360 --> 00:57:03,359 Speaker 1: hunting activities. Were consumption is part of it, depending then on, 917 00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:07,399 Speaker 1: and that's been pretty stable. We don't have to win 918 00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:11,520 Speaker 1: support as hunters, We just have to keep it. Part 919 00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:14,920 Speaker 1: of what you're talking about, Steve, is how do we 920 00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:19,320 Speaker 1: regulate our own behavior so we maintain that support for 921 00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:25,880 Speaker 1: that traditional hunting based activity that we so value. I 922 00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:28,600 Speaker 1: believe that the use of a red squirrel where you 923 00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:32,160 Speaker 1: described the meal you got off of it, is in 924 00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:36,680 Speaker 1: keeping with that traditional activity that we know gives us 925 00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:40,120 Speaker 1: a lot of support whether people hunt or not. We 926 00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:43,040 Speaker 1: do know from other surveys that when you label this 927 00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:46,880 Speaker 1: trophy hunting, when all you're out there for is the 928 00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:52,080 Speaker 1: trophy without the consuming, it is a very conservative. But 929 00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:57,840 Speaker 1: support from the public surveyed across the United States drops 930 00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:03,640 Speaker 1: into the mid twenties. And so the anti hunters are 931 00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:09,240 Speaker 1: trying to portray grizzly bear hunting as a trophy activity, 932 00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:14,840 Speaker 1: not a population management activity, not anything else, and successfully 933 00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:18,520 Speaker 1: then they turn the tables. We have to as hunters 934 00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:21,439 Speaker 1: take a look at how we interact with the wild life. 935 00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:26,280 Speaker 1: That we take the almost spiritual aspect of both taking 936 00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:29,320 Speaker 1: that life as well as the consumption, whether it's the 937 00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:32,760 Speaker 1: use of the fur or the meat or the bone 938 00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:36,800 Speaker 1: in whatever manner, we've got to take and keep that 939 00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:41,240 Speaker 1: front and center as we propose changes in hunting seasons 940 00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:44,160 Speaker 1: and how we interact with our wildlife and fish for 941 00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:48,480 Speaker 1: that matter. So, just to wrap up on grizzlies, if 942 00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:52,280 Speaker 1: you look at a crystal ball and be dead, honest, Okay, 943 00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:54,760 Speaker 1: don't tell me what you want to be dead? Honest, 944 00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,120 Speaker 1: where is it gonna wind up? They'll be delisted. It 945 00:58:57,160 --> 00:58:59,560 Speaker 1: will take another year or two to work through the 946 00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:03,720 Speaker 1: legal system. Will persist on that, Uh, simply because the 947 00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:08,400 Speaker 1: population itself is so strong, I mean, all the habitats occupied, 948 00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:12,240 Speaker 1: it's actually plateaued out and uh and as long as 949 00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:15,960 Speaker 1: we're able to delist it based on that distinct population 950 00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:21,280 Speaker 1: segment that it was listed under for that Yellowstone ecosystem. 951 00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:24,200 Speaker 1: The same will be true for the Northern Continental Divide. 952 00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:27,400 Speaker 1: It takes in Glacier National Park. That will get delisted 953 00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:31,680 Speaker 1: at some point, as well. Other populations that we've got 954 00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:35,560 Speaker 1: like in the selkirks Um, these little populations that are 955 00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:40,920 Speaker 1: reliant on Canada. We don't believe we'll ever achieve the 956 00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:44,560 Speaker 1: populations that are called for in the recovery plans because 957 00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:47,560 Speaker 1: they're so small and ISO it's hard to picture the 958 00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:50,560 Speaker 1: Northern Cascades, which might might or might not have one 959 00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:54,080 Speaker 1: in it like at this very second good example of that. 960 00:59:54,200 --> 01:00:00,320 Speaker 1: And so uh, I think the greater Yellowstone in Northern 961 01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,880 Speaker 1: Continental divide, where you have like maybe maybe a thousand 962 01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:06,200 Speaker 1: in the other world. Yeah, I mean, um, I don't 963 01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:09,080 Speaker 1: know what's in the Northern Continental Divide, but I think 964 01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:13,920 Speaker 1: the fashionable And so the answer is yeah, Yeah, there's 965 01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:18,200 Speaker 1: nothing to be gained by not d listing though, and 966 01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:20,400 Speaker 1: there's a lot to be gained by doing that. It's 967 01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:23,040 Speaker 1: a success of the es A. All of financial and 968 01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:25,880 Speaker 1: human resources going into the e s A process go 969 01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:28,360 Speaker 1: away and we can put our efforts on something else 970 01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:31,880 Speaker 1: that's more important and uh and get on with it. 971 01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:36,360 Speaker 1: And that's been my My complaint about how e s 972 01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:40,919 Speaker 1: A has been used is it's it's being used two 973 01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:45,560 Speaker 1: achieve other needs. It's just like this lawsuit over our 974 01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:49,200 Speaker 1: steel head permit. They're not suing us for conservation purposes 975 01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:52,560 Speaker 1: on steelhead, they're suing us to get other things that 976 01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:57,160 Speaker 1: they haven't don't feel they've been heard on and um, 977 01:00:57,520 --> 01:01:01,440 Speaker 1: and and that's a misuse of of the endangered species. 978 01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:03,600 Speaker 1: That's the thing that saddens me about seeing how the 979 01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:07,479 Speaker 1: Endangered Species Act is uses it. It's oftentimes in these 980 01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:11,160 Speaker 1: big public battles, becomes about something very different than what 981 01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:14,200 Speaker 1: it's supposed to be talking about. Like the conversations we're 982 01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:16,760 Speaker 1: having around grizzlies right now. We're not having a conversation 983 01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:20,200 Speaker 1: about whether the populations were covered. It's just that like, 984 01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:22,840 Speaker 1: I know what I want. You know that people can 985 01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:26,120 Speaker 1: look at it. I know what I want. Um, I'm 986 01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:28,880 Speaker 1: not really interested in the main question that governs that, 987 01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:33,720 Speaker 1: like population stability, but I'm gonna use components of the 988 01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,920 Speaker 1: essay as a tool to get what I want. And 989 01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:39,640 Speaker 1: what I want is I damn sure don't want some 990 01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:43,640 Speaker 1: redneck shooting a grizzly bear. Certainly like their perspective on it. 991 01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:50,280 Speaker 1: I understand that, and that we've seen that social angst 992 01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:56,520 Speaker 1: over large predatory wildlife goes down tremendously when they have 993 01:01:56,600 --> 01:02:01,320 Speaker 1: a ticket in their pocket, permit to kill that because 994 01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:07,040 Speaker 1: the control shifted from the Fishing Wildlife Service to the 995 01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:11,600 Speaker 1: hunter himself or herself, as the case maybe we saw 996 01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:15,320 Speaker 1: it with wolves. Oh my gosh. They angst over wolves 997 01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:18,240 Speaker 1: and the predation they were having on both livestock as 998 01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:21,560 Speaker 1: well as wildlife was huge. The number of letters we 999 01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:25,600 Speaker 1: got from sportsmen was unbelievable. As soon as we opened 1000 01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:29,320 Speaker 1: a season and people could buy or permit, that went 1001 01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:34,440 Speaker 1: way down. Yeah right, no, now, not even close. I 1002 01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:37,080 Speaker 1: mean we dropped their numbers by a few hundred, were 1003 01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:41,800 Speaker 1: cropping them off, but it did change their behavior. But 1004 01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:47,720 Speaker 1: we have reduced live livestock depredations. Uh, and we've we've 1005 01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:51,840 Speaker 1: shifted their behavior around. They now understand what humans are 1006 01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:55,800 Speaker 1: and tend to stay away. We still have hotspot problems 1007 01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:59,520 Speaker 1: with wolf predation, but most of it's on on our 1008 01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:02,200 Speaker 1: uncular it's on our dear and elk. Uh, it's not 1009 01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:06,520 Speaker 1: as much on livestock. We we've really used hunting as 1010 01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:11,920 Speaker 1: well as directed kill by our agency and its staff 1011 01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:17,640 Speaker 1: and the US Wildlife Services to reduce that tremendously. And um, 1012 01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:21,600 Speaker 1: we're making some inroads on elk management as well. We're 1013 01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:24,240 Speaker 1: killing enough of them that elk populations have jumped back 1014 01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:29,000 Speaker 1: up in some areas it did and it still has 1015 01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:31,919 Speaker 1: some holes. I mean, we've got twenty seven elk elk 1016 01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:35,920 Speaker 1: zones in the state, and of that, seven of them 1017 01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:39,960 Speaker 1: aren't meeting objectives. Five of those are almost certainly the 1018 01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:44,760 Speaker 1: result of predation UH. Two of them a combination of 1019 01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:49,560 Speaker 1: that and other factors. UM. So we've we've changed that. 1020 01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:54,600 Speaker 1: Originally we were at I think eleven zones weren't meeting objectives, 1021 01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:57,920 Speaker 1: and so we've pushed that back down UH to a 1022 01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:01,880 Speaker 1: lower number. UH. And those mostly backcountry units, we can't 1023 01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:04,160 Speaker 1: we're not get enough hunters in there. We don't have 1024 01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:07,680 Speaker 1: livestock in there, so we don't have wildlife services in 1025 01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:12,720 Speaker 1: there directly killing animals that are our request. We're trying 1026 01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:15,800 Speaker 1: that in the Lolo zone just over the hill here, 1027 01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:19,200 Speaker 1: where we sent wildlife services in there as an experiment 1028 01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:22,880 Speaker 1: to kill wolves to try to reduce their numbers to 1029 01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:26,840 Speaker 1: a point we can see populations come back like that. 1030 01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:29,840 Speaker 1: It doesn't have it doesn't have to be egg does no. No. 1031 01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:34,280 Speaker 1: We we use them UM. In fact, I prefer to 1032 01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:36,680 Speaker 1: use them. They're they're cheaper and better at it than 1033 01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:39,840 Speaker 1: our staff are because they got the right equipment and 1034 01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:42,160 Speaker 1: training to get in and get that taken care of 1035 01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:47,840 Speaker 1: to handle that. And we have found that we can 1036 01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:51,080 Speaker 1: remove enough wolves to get a response, but it's a 1037 01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:54,680 Speaker 1: garden weeding operation. I mean, they were very productive. They 1038 01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:56,720 Speaker 1: come back, so you've got to go back in there. 1039 01:04:56,840 --> 01:04:59,280 Speaker 1: And what we need is to get enough hunters and 1040 01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:02,320 Speaker 1: trappers in there once we get the numbers down, to 1041 01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:04,720 Speaker 1: keep the numbers down so we don't have to keep 1042 01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:07,800 Speaker 1: paying a third entity for our own staff to go 1043 01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:10,920 Speaker 1: in there and do that. And whether we can get 1044 01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,200 Speaker 1: there in a place like the Low Lo or the 1045 01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:16,760 Speaker 1: middle Fork of the Salmon or the Cellway and some 1046 01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:21,520 Speaker 1: of these really thick backcountry panhandle units is yet to 1047 01:05:21,520 --> 01:05:24,280 Speaker 1: be seen. We're working with the trappers in the state 1048 01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:27,680 Speaker 1: UH to try to enhance their ability to get in 1049 01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:33,000 Speaker 1: there by changing some seasoned structures, bag limits, trap check 1050 01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:36,000 Speaker 1: limits and stuff like that, working very closely to adjust 1051 01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:39,960 Speaker 1: those to try to get to a better place with 1052 01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:43,680 Speaker 1: being able to use sport trapping as a means of 1053 01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:47,320 Speaker 1: control as well. And UH, I'm pretty excited about that. 1054 01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:51,440 Speaker 1: But we've only been at this now for I guess 1055 01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:53,920 Speaker 1: eight nine years, and we've only been out from underneath 1056 01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:56,120 Speaker 1: the umbrella of Fishing Wildlife Service. We had a five 1057 01:05:56,200 --> 01:05:59,880 Speaker 1: year probationary period where we couldn't do a lot of things. 1058 01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:02,800 Speaker 1: We've really only been at this about three years with 1059 01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:06,600 Speaker 1: trans new stuff, and you're gonna see us continue to 1060 01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:09,120 Speaker 1: do that. What do you think will end up happening 1061 01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:10,880 Speaker 1: in the northern Great Lakes? And this is like we're 1062 01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:14,600 Speaker 1: getting like way outside of your purview. But do you 1063 01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:17,280 Speaker 1: think that that there's light at the end of the tunnel. 1064 01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:21,680 Speaker 1: There is a bill in Congress to delist wolves nationwide 1065 01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:25,760 Speaker 1: across the board. They're just done. Whether that stands a 1066 01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:28,880 Speaker 1: chance of getting through in this it's a little too 1067 01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:33,760 Speaker 1: you like, um, a little too elastic. Yeah, I all 1068 01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:37,640 Speaker 1: I know is in them in in that particular area, 1069 01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:42,240 Speaker 1: that's probably their best chance for delisting because of the 1070 01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:45,600 Speaker 1: way the judicial order is on them. Up there. It's 1071 01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:50,280 Speaker 1: a little different, um, but it's it's gonna be they're out. 1072 01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:54,680 Speaker 1: They don't have a population problem there. It's it's again 1073 01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:57,760 Speaker 1: they're tied up in this legal mess that they can't 1074 01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:00,720 Speaker 1: get out. And there it's around the question of just populations. 1075 01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:03,160 Speaker 1: I don't want to get us like terribly into the weeds, 1076 01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:05,880 Speaker 1: but there it winds up being again like nitpick that 1077 01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:09,880 Speaker 1: it's like nitpicking little legal things and they're not arguing 1078 01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:11,920 Speaker 1: about the main question, right the main question being like 1079 01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:15,680 Speaker 1: are there enough wolves? There's questions within that geography. There's 1080 01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:20,400 Speaker 1: no there's no benefit being derived of e s A. 1081 01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:25,240 Speaker 1: That's where I think the question. It's the it's the 1082 01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:28,800 Speaker 1: nuances of the Endangered Species Act and somebody arguing over 1083 01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:33,600 Speaker 1: the definition of a distinct population segment or some other 1084 01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:37,920 Speaker 1: aspect of the s A. That many attorneys are very 1085 01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:41,000 Speaker 1: good at arguing in a court of law, and it's 1086 01:07:41,120 --> 01:07:44,800 Speaker 1: not a great benefit of their pocket what probably given 1087 01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:48,520 Speaker 1: them given the way they're reimbursed. There's there's a number 1088 01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:54,880 Speaker 1: of scholarly articles on on the reimbursement of of the 1089 01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:57,960 Speaker 1: legal people that are taking these suits. It's a cottage industry. 1090 01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:00,840 Speaker 1: I can I can image me to essay lawyer. But 1091 01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:03,080 Speaker 1: at the same time, it is their right to take 1092 01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:05,840 Speaker 1: those legal actions and that's just the way it is. 1093 01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:09,320 Speaker 1: And until Congress decides to change something on that, it's 1094 01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:10,960 Speaker 1: it's what we have to deal with. Well, I don't 1095 01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:13,000 Speaker 1: want to blow that. I don't want to be mistaken 1096 01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:14,720 Speaker 1: for someone who wants to blow the whole system up. 1097 01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:16,599 Speaker 1: I just wanted to all end. I wanted to all 1098 01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:19,080 Speaker 1: end the way I wanted to end, but not I'm 1099 01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:23,240 Speaker 1: not I'm not adversarial to the process. I'm like like 1100 01:08:23,280 --> 01:08:26,599 Speaker 1: a sports fan, right, you appreciate the rules, but you're 1101 01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:28,960 Speaker 1: just rooting for your own teeth. So I just like 1102 01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:30,400 Speaker 1: to see it end up in a way that I 1103 01:08:30,400 --> 01:08:32,880 Speaker 1: wanted to end up. But I want jump in another one. 1104 01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:39,080 Speaker 1: Until the other day when someone they they officially verify 1105 01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:42,640 Speaker 1: that a Mountain Cariboo came down to Montana. Right, I 1106 01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:44,559 Speaker 1: missed that. I'm still back with the grizzly that was 1107 01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:47,439 Speaker 1: on the golf course and Stevensville. If you heard about 1108 01:08:47,439 --> 01:08:50,160 Speaker 1: that too, Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right. 1109 01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:54,160 Speaker 1: I think they verified it. I think some guys had pound. Yeah, 1110 01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:56,080 Speaker 1: they found some flirting with the board, and I think 1111 01:08:56,080 --> 01:08:58,920 Speaker 1: they might have it, might be lured him over, It 1112 01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:02,120 Speaker 1: might be verified and step foot into Montana, which would 1113 01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:05,800 Speaker 1: be the first time since the twenties or something. But Idaho, 1114 01:09:06,160 --> 01:09:08,640 Speaker 1: right had the except for that. And I don't know 1115 01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:10,559 Speaker 1: enough about that to know how freakish that is if 1116 01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:13,200 Speaker 1: it's one that just packed up and straight a hundred miles. 1117 01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:19,439 Speaker 1: But Idaho has been the the state of the lower 1118 01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:21,240 Speaker 1: in the Lower Fort the idol has been the state 1119 01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:24,519 Speaker 1: where we have had or the last decades we've had 1120 01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:27,920 Speaker 1: some number of caribou flirting with the border. And if 1121 01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:29,960 Speaker 1: you were gonna have a cariboo in the US, it 1122 01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:33,080 Speaker 1: was presumably, I mean, it was gonna be one in Idaho. 1123 01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:39,439 Speaker 1: And that population is soffe. Do you see what's your 1124 01:09:39,439 --> 01:09:42,320 Speaker 1: take on it? Is this like a a big meaningful 1125 01:09:42,360 --> 01:09:43,760 Speaker 1: thing or is it wind up being that it was 1126 01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:47,400 Speaker 1: such kind of of a little bit of a fluke 1127 01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:49,320 Speaker 1: and you can't read too much into it that they're 1128 01:09:49,320 --> 01:09:53,440 Speaker 1: now not there, Like, give me the mile high perspective 1129 01:09:53,479 --> 01:09:57,280 Speaker 1: on it. From my standpoint, this was almost preordained. I'm 1130 01:09:57,320 --> 01:10:02,639 Speaker 1: giving limitations of the habitat at given the small, low 1131 01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:06,080 Speaker 1: productivity of the of the herd and the fact that 1132 01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:09,719 Speaker 1: it was reliant predominantly on Canada with a few animals 1133 01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:13,240 Speaker 1: coming in. The critical mass we needed of thirty to 1134 01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:17,760 Speaker 1: sixty animals we achieved I think the mid thirties and 1135 01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:19,320 Speaker 1: number of years ago, and then we've been on a 1136 01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:22,439 Speaker 1: downhill slide since. So they having a population of three 1137 01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:25,280 Speaker 1: or four. In fact, Canada's kind of come in and 1138 01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:28,679 Speaker 1: take those animals and removal to put them in protective 1139 01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:32,080 Speaker 1: custody to try to preserve the genetics and use those 1140 01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:36,240 Speaker 1: animals to breed some more in in uh captive rearing, 1141 01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:40,080 Speaker 1: and then reintroduce them at some other point to bolster 1142 01:10:40,160 --> 01:10:44,840 Speaker 1: the remaining population. Part of the problem was predation with 1143 01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:48,640 Speaker 1: the establishment of wolves in that area in addition to 1144 01:10:48,720 --> 01:10:52,840 Speaker 1: the already existing cougar population that was there, it tipped 1145 01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:58,040 Speaker 1: them over. It was that combination of factors. And at 1146 01:10:58,080 --> 01:11:02,000 Speaker 1: one point we had actually given permission to Canada to 1147 01:11:02,080 --> 01:11:04,559 Speaker 1: hire people to come in and kill wolves in northern Idaho, 1148 01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:09,240 Speaker 1: uh and they did that, but that wasn't enough because 1149 01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:12,760 Speaker 1: it's not just wolves. It was a combination of wolves 1150 01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:16,559 Speaker 1: and probably black bears on on on the young ones 1151 01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:21,280 Speaker 1: as well as cougar in there, and because their habitat 1152 01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:24,880 Speaker 1: is so small, it was easy for the predators to 1153 01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:29,400 Speaker 1: pick on them uh there and so this was preordained 1154 01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:33,599 Speaker 1: from my standpoint, Steve, it's also an appropriate action. One 1155 01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:38,000 Speaker 1: of the things just basically saying we're done, we can't 1156 01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:41,760 Speaker 1: do anymore, We're going to triage this out. And this 1157 01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:45,320 Speaker 1: is a situation where we did not know how to 1158 01:11:46,200 --> 01:11:51,080 Speaker 1: overcome the limitations to that population. We took those animals 1159 01:11:51,080 --> 01:11:55,439 Speaker 1: and put them into a captive rearing situation. Maybe we'll 1160 01:11:55,479 --> 01:11:58,960 Speaker 1: figure it out. But we we've decided that the use 1161 01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:02,679 Speaker 1: of resources for those few animals that were declining their 1162 01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:07,280 Speaker 1: extinction was not a good use of resources. Let's go 1163 01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:11,240 Speaker 1: into the captive rearing game. Let's try to see if 1164 01:12:11,280 --> 01:12:13,760 Speaker 1: we can understand this in the future as we work more, 1165 01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:17,880 Speaker 1: get better at managing other factors, habitat, predation, what have you, 1166 01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:21,200 Speaker 1: and then we can put the resources to managing something 1167 01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:24,639 Speaker 1: we know how to fix for some other species. And 1168 01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:30,160 Speaker 1: that that idea of conservation triage under ESA as controversial 1169 01:12:30,240 --> 01:12:33,040 Speaker 1: as the dickens. There's folks like myself to think it's 1170 01:12:33,080 --> 01:12:35,639 Speaker 1: the way you go. We do it medically on something. 1171 01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:38,840 Speaker 1: There are yeah, some of them. You just say, I 1172 01:12:38,880 --> 01:12:41,800 Speaker 1: don't know what to do, and no amount of money 1173 01:12:42,200 --> 01:12:44,599 Speaker 1: poured on it is going to make any difference because 1174 01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:46,919 Speaker 1: we don't know what to do. Because what a reasonable 1175 01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:51,360 Speaker 1: number of population be in that I can't tell you 1176 01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:54,679 Speaker 1: what the recovery plan was. Thank for the Idahoe portion, 1177 01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:58,559 Speaker 1: it was just around a hundred animals. They're flirting around 1178 01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:00,840 Speaker 1: a dozen, seven to a dozen, right, and then it 1179 01:13:00,960 --> 01:13:03,920 Speaker 1: just it went down to single digits and you know, 1180 01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:06,200 Speaker 1: and it was a time where they were either going 1181 01:13:06,240 --> 01:13:08,400 Speaker 1: to go away on their own, or we take a 1182 01:13:08,479 --> 01:13:10,880 Speaker 1: few and you didn't see a way to buy your 1183 01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:13,840 Speaker 1: way out of it. No, not with There wasn't any 1184 01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:17,720 Speaker 1: way and to do it effectively. And so the Canadians 1185 01:13:18,080 --> 01:13:22,800 Speaker 1: chose to offer this opportunity and boom they're out. So 1186 01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:27,120 Speaker 1: that's that idea that there are. Did we give up 1187 01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:31,280 Speaker 1: on them, not totally, but we recognized there was nothing 1188 01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:33,840 Speaker 1: more to be done right at this moment in time 1189 01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:37,120 Speaker 1: with that species. We damn near got there with Saki salmon. 1190 01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:40,599 Speaker 1: I mean, I was on the original Saky recovery team 1191 01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:44,240 Speaker 1: when we got down to one male, lonesome Larry came back. 1192 01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:48,040 Speaker 1: One year, we had four fish come back. The next year, 1193 01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:52,120 Speaker 1: we had zero another year and then seven. I mean 1194 01:13:52,280 --> 01:13:54,880 Speaker 1: that was a four years fan and that's a complete 1195 01:13:54,880 --> 01:14:00,759 Speaker 1: generation zero, four and seven for the returning populations Sakai 1196 01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:04,080 Speaker 1: salmon coming back to Red Fish Lake in Idaho. We 1197 01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:08,160 Speaker 1: took all of those fish out of their natural habitat, 1198 01:14:08,439 --> 01:14:13,040 Speaker 1: put them in a hatchery and Eagle Idaho, and expanded 1199 01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:17,360 Speaker 1: their genetics such that we did not go into what's 1200 01:14:17,400 --> 01:14:20,719 Speaker 1: called in breeding depression. We used every trick in the book, 1201 01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:24,360 Speaker 1: and there were some really amazing tricks that our staff used. 1202 01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:27,800 Speaker 1: Now we're stocking millions of fish in there to try 1203 01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:31,160 Speaker 1: to build that population back up while we expand. The 1204 01:14:31,200 --> 01:14:37,720 Speaker 1: population came from those from that, from those yeah, from 1205 01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:41,760 Speaker 1: those thirteen fish that we had dinner ad right, that's 1206 01:14:41,760 --> 01:14:46,000 Speaker 1: four or five seven, yeah, twelve fish um that we 1207 01:14:46,080 --> 01:14:49,719 Speaker 1: had to work with. We now have a full blown 1208 01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:55,200 Speaker 1: hatchery operating that we built with BPA mitigation money. And 1209 01:14:55,240 --> 01:14:59,439 Speaker 1: it was expensive, but we didn't waste our time trying 1210 01:14:59,479 --> 01:15:02,760 Speaker 1: to douce them in on site because the numbers were 1211 01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:06,920 Speaker 1: too small and numerically we couldn't get over the hurdle. Well, 1212 01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:08,960 Speaker 1: fish are different because you can't go pull a hundred 1213 01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:11,640 Speaker 1: eggs out of caribou. That's true, you know. Now we 1214 01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:13,800 Speaker 1: can get four thousand eggs out of a saki and 1215 01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:18,280 Speaker 1: consequently it is a different game from that standpoint. But 1216 01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:21,200 Speaker 1: my my point being is we have to make some 1217 01:15:21,240 --> 01:15:24,200 Speaker 1: of these hard decisions at some point in time not 1218 01:15:24,280 --> 01:15:27,439 Speaker 1: to spend money certain ways or human resources as the 1219 01:15:27,479 --> 01:15:32,520 Speaker 1: case maybe and um and move forward. That's conservation triosh 1220 01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:36,599 Speaker 1: where we make those decisions versus everything is important. We've 1221 01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:39,320 Speaker 1: got to pour all the resources into it, but there's 1222 01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:42,839 Speaker 1: not enough to take care of it when you, uh, 1223 01:15:43,160 --> 01:15:46,040 Speaker 1: you've been at this game a long time in this business, 1224 01:15:46,120 --> 01:15:50,639 Speaker 1: right and now you're in kind of a pinnacle position. 1225 01:15:50,920 --> 01:15:53,160 Speaker 1: When you look at like these tough decisions, do you 1226 01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:57,840 Speaker 1: do you imagine that there are some that will that 1227 01:15:57,920 --> 01:15:59,800 Speaker 1: will haunt you or that you'll have a sort of 1228 01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:03,000 Speaker 1: I guess he is the guy who What do you 1229 01:16:03,040 --> 01:16:04,400 Speaker 1: think about that? Where do you feel like you're so 1230 01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:07,760 Speaker 1: sort of part of a process, right and if if 1231 01:16:07,800 --> 01:16:09,840 Speaker 1: it wasn't, you would be someone else and that person 1232 01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:11,800 Speaker 1: would probably end up doing the same thing. Or do 1233 01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:15,040 Speaker 1: you feel like you're putting like the personal like Virgil 1234 01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:18,599 Speaker 1: More stamp on things that are going to affect future 1235 01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:20,600 Speaker 1: generations and they'll look back and be like, that was 1236 01:16:20,640 --> 01:16:24,720 Speaker 1: the guy certainly messed it all up, or or conversely 1237 01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:28,160 Speaker 1: the guy that made it perfect. Well, I'll take responsibilities 1238 01:16:28,200 --> 01:16:31,120 Speaker 1: for the screw ups because that's the way it works. 1239 01:16:31,240 --> 01:16:36,360 Speaker 1: But the successes are never a single person um, they're 1240 01:16:36,479 --> 01:16:39,800 Speaker 1: they're always a group. But the successes that I've been 1241 01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:42,960 Speaker 1: part of them that I'm most proud of are forming 1242 01:16:43,040 --> 01:16:48,320 Speaker 1: strong collaboratives among all of the users out there that 1243 01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:53,200 Speaker 1: can agree on how to move forward. And that's that's 1244 01:16:53,200 --> 01:16:58,000 Speaker 1: a challenge given the di visitness in society today. But 1245 01:16:58,120 --> 01:17:02,040 Speaker 1: the closer you get people to the resource on the ground, 1246 01:17:03,560 --> 01:17:06,280 Speaker 1: the easier it is for them to all focus on 1247 01:17:06,320 --> 01:17:09,600 Speaker 1: what they love. So if we're talking about trying to 1248 01:17:10,120 --> 01:17:14,960 Speaker 1: manage Yellowstone cutthroat across its entire range, gosh, that's a 1249 01:17:14,960 --> 01:17:17,640 Speaker 1: big area across several states. But if you want to 1250 01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:20,479 Speaker 1: talk about managing Yellowstone cutthroat in the South Fork of 1251 01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:24,400 Speaker 1: the Snake, I can bring those users together. We can 1252 01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:27,120 Speaker 1: sit down and form up a collaborative. We've done it 1253 01:17:27,479 --> 01:17:29,880 Speaker 1: on the clear Water, We've done it in the oy He's, 1254 01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:31,960 Speaker 1: We've done it on the Koutney River, We've done it 1255 01:17:32,840 --> 01:17:36,720 Speaker 1: in in Montana with the Blackfoot Initiative. The ones that 1256 01:17:36,760 --> 01:17:40,720 Speaker 1: I'm familiar with, and that is the challenge, is to 1257 01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:44,599 Speaker 1: find the right sizing of bringing people together that care 1258 01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:51,719 Speaker 1: about that place, that land, and the geographical geographic size 1259 01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:55,160 Speaker 1: that people can embrace. Some of them are massive, like 1260 01:17:55,240 --> 01:17:58,559 Speaker 1: the oy He's. It's a big geography, but it's it's 1261 01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:01,800 Speaker 1: a resource people can race and get their mind around 1262 01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:05,120 Speaker 1: as they try to come up with solutions to maintaining 1263 01:18:05,200 --> 01:18:10,200 Speaker 1: lifestyle and wildlife resources and plant resources down there and 1264 01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:14,720 Speaker 1: they initiative was a huge success and still is. And 1265 01:18:14,760 --> 01:18:19,760 Speaker 1: we've got ranchers working with conservation groups, working with other 1266 01:18:20,040 --> 01:18:24,679 Speaker 1: NGOs to to keep a lifestyle on the ground because 1267 01:18:24,760 --> 01:18:28,439 Speaker 1: everybody cares about that sage brush community down there. We 1268 01:18:28,560 --> 01:18:31,799 Speaker 1: see it in the clear Water basin. People care about 1269 01:18:31,960 --> 01:18:35,639 Speaker 1: that resource there in the lifestyle it has. It's hard, 1270 01:18:35,720 --> 01:18:38,000 Speaker 1: it takes a lot of work. That's when I'm most 1271 01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:42,439 Speaker 1: proud of every collaborative that I've ever been associated with 1272 01:18:43,080 --> 01:18:46,720 Speaker 1: that has been successful is because everybody came together with 1273 01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:51,360 Speaker 1: that common value and and it's really satisfying things and 1274 01:18:51,520 --> 01:18:55,559 Speaker 1: that isn't dependent on an individual. Then if that person leaves, 1275 01:18:56,200 --> 01:18:59,960 Speaker 1: it has momentum of its own. Uh So I feel 1276 01:19:00,120 --> 01:19:03,200 Speaker 1: some problems. Look, if you look at the Cutthroat in general, 1277 01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:06,360 Speaker 1: it's just too like it has the approached on the 1278 01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:12,960 Speaker 1: micro level. I think the management schemes for that level 1279 01:19:14,280 --> 01:19:17,880 Speaker 1: need to be uh The issues associated with the south 1280 01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:21,439 Speaker 1: Fork of the Snake and maintaining the spawning tributaries there 1281 01:19:21,439 --> 01:19:25,600 Speaker 1: and dealing with the rainbow trout intergression are unique to 1282 01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:32,640 Speaker 1: that area and require localized work. Uh. Public bient. The 1283 01:19:32,680 --> 01:19:35,480 Speaker 1: way Wyoming is doing it as different because their geography 1284 01:19:35,840 --> 01:19:39,240 Speaker 1: is different. The way Yellowstone Park is doing it is different, 1285 01:19:39,840 --> 01:19:43,719 Speaker 1: um and it's its own community up there with Yellowstone Cutthroat. 1286 01:19:43,800 --> 01:19:46,840 Speaker 1: Montana has a slightly different approach on it, but it's 1287 01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:49,960 Speaker 1: all getting at the same thing, and it's it's reliant 1288 01:19:49,960 --> 01:19:52,479 Speaker 1: on that. Now. We have a tri state agreement on 1289 01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:55,160 Speaker 1: Yellowstone Cutthroat that we put in place in the eighties 1290 01:19:55,680 --> 01:19:58,960 Speaker 1: and said, here's the things we all agree on are 1291 01:19:58,960 --> 01:20:02,880 Speaker 1: going to be common death missions and common management concepts. 1292 01:20:03,880 --> 01:20:06,400 Speaker 1: We're going to manage for purity of cutthroat, and that 1293 01:20:06,520 --> 01:20:09,959 Speaker 1: purity is defined this way, you know, by what proportion 1294 01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:13,160 Speaker 1: of integration is there and how we use those fish 1295 01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:16,560 Speaker 1: and transport them around. We agreed on those basic concepts, 1296 01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:18,960 Speaker 1: but then we went out and built these management things 1297 01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:21,640 Speaker 1: on a localized basis. I'm curious about, if I can 1298 01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:26,639 Speaker 1: interrupt just uh something you said about the those collaborative efforts. 1299 01:20:26,680 --> 01:20:30,960 Speaker 1: I mean, if you had to pinpoint something that made 1300 01:20:30,960 --> 01:20:33,439 Speaker 1: them work, because I've been part of plenty collaborations that 1301 01:20:33,439 --> 01:20:36,439 Speaker 1: didn't work, what would what would it be? It's usually 1302 01:20:36,479 --> 01:20:40,960 Speaker 1: some big controversy, the one that I'm no, I'm serious, 1303 01:20:40,960 --> 01:20:42,960 Speaker 1: and sometimes we're right at the middle of it. And 1304 01:20:43,000 --> 01:20:46,519 Speaker 1: that's where I take responsibility for being at fault. And 1305 01:20:46,600 --> 01:20:49,320 Speaker 1: I'll do this on behalf of my agency more than anything. 1306 01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:53,360 Speaker 1: But years ago in the Henry's Fork drainage, we've got 1307 01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:57,160 Speaker 1: on on Park Reservoir. On Park Reservoir gets uh utah 1308 01:20:57,240 --> 01:20:59,720 Speaker 1: chubs in them. That ties up the biomass and our 1309 01:20:59,720 --> 01:21:02,880 Speaker 1: ability to grow hatchery fish in there for sport fishing. 1310 01:21:02,960 --> 01:21:05,240 Speaker 1: You gotta back up on that one. People are gonna 1311 01:21:05,240 --> 01:21:08,200 Speaker 1: your tom about okay, I mean some people who know 1312 01:21:08,240 --> 01:21:12,000 Speaker 1: about this, Okay, Well, anyway, we get competition between fish 1313 01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:15,559 Speaker 1: species and non game species like a utah chub, which 1314 01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:19,479 Speaker 1: is an exotic. Uh. We're in there eating all of 1315 01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:23,559 Speaker 1: the zooplankton and and food and tying it up in 1316 01:21:23,640 --> 01:21:27,479 Speaker 1: their bodies biomass. I'm sorry, I did get carried just 1317 01:21:27,600 --> 01:21:30,200 Speaker 1: like what the Utah shub was, and it was sub 1318 01:21:30,320 --> 01:21:32,160 Speaker 1: is a mental. It's a great big mental. They got 1319 01:21:32,479 --> 01:21:34,160 Speaker 1: in there, and they got in there. We can have 1320 01:21:34,280 --> 01:21:36,760 Speaker 1: a way through bait puckets and what have you, but 1321 01:21:37,360 --> 01:21:40,160 Speaker 1: the bottom line is we have periodically gone in there 1322 01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:44,360 Speaker 1: and poisoned that system with a poison called ropano. It's 1323 01:21:44,400 --> 01:21:48,720 Speaker 1: an extract out of a root from South America and 1324 01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:52,200 Speaker 1: it it blocks the oxygen I take at the cellular 1325 01:21:52,320 --> 01:21:54,759 Speaker 1: level in the brain and they just die. And you've 1326 01:21:54,840 --> 01:21:58,360 Speaker 1: done some South American fish poisoning. That's where we learned 1327 01:21:58,360 --> 01:22:03,120 Speaker 1: it from the natives down there. Uh well, I haven't 1328 01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:07,640 Speaker 1: done that. I'd like to go sometime. And anyway, in 1329 01:22:07,720 --> 01:22:11,759 Speaker 1: the process of doing the one that I the last 1330 01:22:11,800 --> 01:22:15,360 Speaker 1: one of these, we drew Island Park Reservoir way down 1331 01:22:16,160 --> 01:22:19,559 Speaker 1: and we do that to limit the amount of poison 1332 01:22:19,560 --> 01:22:21,240 Speaker 1: that has to be put in the system and then 1333 01:22:21,320 --> 01:22:24,920 Speaker 1: detoxed as it flows out of there. And we usually 1334 01:22:24,920 --> 01:22:29,439 Speaker 1: close the damn drought down, dump the toxin in, do 1335 01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:32,840 Speaker 1: all the tributary strait, try to kill the chubs, close 1336 01:22:32,880 --> 01:22:35,200 Speaker 1: the gates on the dam, and fill it back up well. 1337 01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:37,559 Speaker 1: In the process of trying to get the minimum pool 1338 01:22:37,680 --> 01:22:43,040 Speaker 1: possible to save money, they drew the pool down so 1339 01:22:43,120 --> 01:22:45,880 Speaker 1: low it cut through the sediment that had built up 1340 01:22:45,880 --> 01:22:49,360 Speaker 1: in the reservoir, and all that sediment flushed into the 1341 01:22:49,400 --> 01:22:54,000 Speaker 1: Henry's Fork at Harriman Ranch, the fly fish mecca down there, 1342 01:22:54,479 --> 01:22:59,920 Speaker 1: and it accumulated terribly habitat and it did it created 1343 01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:05,720 Speaker 1: some problems that created such a public outcry about the 1344 01:23:05,760 --> 01:23:10,160 Speaker 1: Bureau of Reclamation and Fishing Game mismanaging this reservoir and 1345 01:23:10,240 --> 01:23:13,400 Speaker 1: having effects on the wild trout fishery in the Henry's 1346 01:23:13,439 --> 01:23:19,960 Speaker 1: Fork Below that the Henry's Fork UH Coalition formed up 1347 01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:25,240 Speaker 1: under guidance of the Henry's Fork Foundation as well as 1348 01:23:25,280 --> 01:23:28,519 Speaker 1: the local irrigators there that were upset, and they formed 1349 01:23:28,560 --> 01:23:31,800 Speaker 1: one of the most successful collaboratives we have today and 1350 01:23:31,920 --> 01:23:35,840 Speaker 1: included everybody in it. But it was an incident that 1351 01:23:35,960 --> 01:23:39,759 Speaker 1: created that, and if you look around you'll find often 1352 01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:43,360 Speaker 1: there was an incident or an activity or a legal 1353 01:23:43,400 --> 01:23:48,040 Speaker 1: action that caused something. They finally brought people together because 1354 01:23:48,080 --> 01:23:50,040 Speaker 1: they know we got to fix this so this doesn't 1355 01:23:50,080 --> 01:23:54,599 Speaker 1: happen again. And that's just one example of the Henry's 1356 01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:59,479 Speaker 1: Fork Watershed Council forming up. That was thirty years ago. 1357 01:23:59,640 --> 01:24:02,160 Speaker 1: The had and put from irrigators too. Yeah they're a 1358 01:24:02,200 --> 01:24:05,960 Speaker 1: big I want water, and you boys figure out the 1359 01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:12,720 Speaker 1: fishing situation, and so fast forward, the dam was rebuilt, 1360 01:24:12,880 --> 01:24:15,439 Speaker 1: a hydro project was put on it a few years later, 1361 01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:19,120 Speaker 1: and because of that collaborative, the needs of the fish 1362 01:24:19,200 --> 01:24:22,559 Speaker 1: and the irrigators were worked out among the collaborative and 1363 01:24:22,640 --> 01:24:27,000 Speaker 1: fed to the agencies so we could implement them as 1364 01:24:27,040 --> 01:24:32,000 Speaker 1: trust managers uh for them, and that's the way it 1365 01:24:32,040 --> 01:24:34,639 Speaker 1: should be. Too often we get put in a position 1366 01:24:34,680 --> 01:24:37,960 Speaker 1: of why did you make that decision instead of implementing 1367 01:24:38,000 --> 01:24:40,360 Speaker 1: things that the community as a whole comes up with. 1368 01:24:41,040 --> 01:24:47,760 Speaker 1: I see our agency and our staff as catalyst, if 1369 01:24:47,800 --> 01:24:51,640 Speaker 1: at all possible, for catalyzing that kind of community interaction, 1370 01:24:52,520 --> 01:24:56,120 Speaker 1: so we can come up with these Certainly, ultimately the 1371 01:24:56,120 --> 01:24:59,360 Speaker 1: Commission made me making some of these decisions, but trying 1372 01:24:59,360 --> 01:25:03,080 Speaker 1: to get people to come together instead of us standing 1373 01:25:03,080 --> 01:25:05,160 Speaker 1: in the middle of the circle getting shot at by 1374 01:25:05,200 --> 01:25:09,519 Speaker 1: all sides because they're dissatisfied with what we're proposing to 1375 01:25:09,520 --> 01:25:12,479 Speaker 1: try to balance everything out. We're better if we're part 1376 01:25:12,479 --> 01:25:14,960 Speaker 1: of the circle and everybody comes up with an idea 1377 01:25:15,000 --> 01:25:19,599 Speaker 1: that's implementable in consensus or as much as you can now. 1378 01:25:19,640 --> 01:25:22,200 Speaker 1: That works until somebody doesn't consent, and then you get 1379 01:25:22,200 --> 01:25:25,240 Speaker 1: these tangents out there. But it is by and large 1380 01:25:25,479 --> 01:25:28,320 Speaker 1: working very well. It's where the focus is right now 1381 01:25:29,000 --> 01:25:32,360 Speaker 1: and natural resource management of our public lands, especially in 1382 01:25:32,400 --> 01:25:36,920 Speaker 1: the resources on those public lands. Do you find areas 1383 01:25:36,960 --> 01:25:42,040 Speaker 1: where there's a lot of public apathy? It surprises you 1384 01:25:42,080 --> 01:25:45,760 Speaker 1: buy the lack of input. Yes, I'm always amazed on 1385 01:25:46,360 --> 01:25:49,240 Speaker 1: certain issues that you think are just gonna blow things up. 1386 01:25:49,479 --> 01:25:52,439 Speaker 1: We'll put a proposal or an idea out there, we 1387 01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:55,520 Speaker 1: have nothing, We'll have a public meeting or a workshop. 1388 01:25:55,760 --> 01:26:01,080 Speaker 1: Three people will show up. I think what we're doing 1389 01:26:01,200 --> 01:26:04,479 Speaker 1: right here though, with a podcast, what we can do 1390 01:26:04,600 --> 01:26:08,240 Speaker 1: with social media to try to get this information out 1391 01:26:08,760 --> 01:26:13,920 Speaker 1: on a broader sense. Because I'm old enough, I still 1392 01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:15,479 Speaker 1: like to sit down and have a cup of coffee 1393 01:26:15,479 --> 01:26:19,200 Speaker 1: and read my paper. Okay, but I'm realizing now that 1394 01:26:19,240 --> 01:26:21,320 Speaker 1: my paper is only three pages long, and if I'm 1395 01:26:21,320 --> 01:26:23,479 Speaker 1: going to really get any information, I'm gonna have to 1396 01:26:23,479 --> 01:26:26,240 Speaker 1: sit down at least with my tablet and my cup 1397 01:26:26,280 --> 01:26:28,880 Speaker 1: of coffee and and read through that. And if I've 1398 01:26:28,880 --> 01:26:31,400 Speaker 1: got a tablet, then I can hot link in to 1399 01:26:31,560 --> 01:26:34,479 Speaker 1: the to the next level of information if I desire, 1400 01:26:34,520 --> 01:26:36,479 Speaker 1: and that might lead me then to some of these 1401 01:26:36,479 --> 01:26:40,920 Speaker 1: other discussion groups and information from folks like yourself that 1402 01:26:40,960 --> 01:26:44,800 Speaker 1: are going to help us hopefully engage people in a 1403 01:26:44,840 --> 01:26:49,200 Speaker 1: different manner of community as we work forward with these things. 1404 01:26:49,520 --> 01:26:51,839 Speaker 1: Part of the reason these folks are here, the two staff, 1405 01:26:52,160 --> 01:26:54,320 Speaker 1: are to help us with that in terms of how 1406 01:26:54,320 --> 01:26:56,479 Speaker 1: do we get how do we do that. How do 1407 01:26:56,520 --> 01:26:59,320 Speaker 1: we communicate better? I came up during an era where 1408 01:26:59,320 --> 01:27:01,320 Speaker 1: we did a mag scene and we had a TV show. 1409 01:27:02,080 --> 01:27:06,960 Speaker 1: No one does magazines that in newspaper articles. I mean, 1410 01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:12,280 Speaker 1: it was all print or media driven under an analog system. Uh, 1411 01:27:12,560 --> 01:27:15,880 Speaker 1: we need to and our transgressing, you know, getting into 1412 01:27:15,880 --> 01:27:18,679 Speaker 1: the digital stuff. I think the building we're in here 1413 01:27:18,800 --> 01:27:24,000 Speaker 1: right now is an example of that digital technology. We're 1414 01:27:23,120 --> 01:27:26,120 Speaker 1: at quite the ONEX World headquarters because it just moved 1415 01:27:26,160 --> 01:27:30,640 Speaker 1: next door. Okay while we're at their annex A one 1416 01:27:30,680 --> 01:27:32,600 Speaker 1: thing I was going to throw in there. Um, you 1417 01:27:32,640 --> 01:27:35,080 Speaker 1: know you mentioned the apathy. I've been to some of 1418 01:27:35,080 --> 01:27:37,679 Speaker 1: those meetings where two or three people in fact this summer, 1419 01:27:37,760 --> 01:27:39,800 Speaker 1: I think I talked to you about this stuff that 1420 01:27:39,880 --> 01:27:41,960 Speaker 1: d e Q is doing on the Upper clerk Fork 1421 01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:44,760 Speaker 1: and um, you know, if you go down to the bar, 1422 01:27:44,920 --> 01:27:47,599 Speaker 1: you go down to Charlie B's, everyone will talk about it. Everybody, 1423 01:27:47,600 --> 01:27:51,120 Speaker 1: every fishing guy's got an opinion about it. But I 1424 01:27:51,160 --> 01:27:54,360 Speaker 1: think some of that apathy is derived from the fact 1425 01:27:54,400 --> 01:27:57,000 Speaker 1: that no one knows who's really accountable for stuff. I mean, 1426 01:27:57,240 --> 01:28:00,760 Speaker 1: you tell the story about the res are getting drawn 1427 01:28:00,760 --> 01:28:04,479 Speaker 1: down and this massive sediment coming out. Um, you know, 1428 01:28:04,520 --> 01:28:07,200 Speaker 1: I would imagine I don't know that this for a fact, 1429 01:28:07,200 --> 01:28:09,720 Speaker 1: but that that fishing community down there was probably going, 1430 01:28:10,080 --> 01:28:13,160 Speaker 1: who's accountable for this? Who's who's making up for you know, 1431 01:28:13,240 --> 01:28:16,160 Speaker 1: this money that we're losing, etcetera, etcetera. And I think 1432 01:28:16,720 --> 01:28:19,080 Speaker 1: some of that apathy comes out of the fact that 1433 01:28:19,120 --> 01:28:24,720 Speaker 1: people figura, well, no matter what they yeah, yeah, I 1434 01:28:24,720 --> 01:28:26,920 Speaker 1: find I I think that that's true because you hear 1435 01:28:27,120 --> 01:28:28,760 Speaker 1: so many of these issues, some of the ones we've 1436 01:28:28,760 --> 01:28:31,960 Speaker 1: touched on today. You hear people talk about them and 1437 01:28:32,000 --> 01:28:34,360 Speaker 1: they're very passionate about it, but the minute they open 1438 01:28:34,439 --> 01:28:36,360 Speaker 1: the mouth, I'm like, you know what, you're not equipped 1439 01:28:36,400 --> 01:28:39,519 Speaker 1: to talk about this, bro right, just by a handful 1440 01:28:39,520 --> 01:28:42,280 Speaker 1: of things you just said, like you're behind, you're not 1441 01:28:42,360 --> 01:28:47,400 Speaker 1: caught up. Yeah, And I mean, Virgil, you articulated that 1442 01:28:47,479 --> 01:28:51,400 Speaker 1: those collaborations so well, and it sounds like when those 1443 01:28:51,439 --> 01:28:54,120 Speaker 1: people come together there has to be some level of 1444 01:28:54,160 --> 01:29:00,559 Speaker 1: compromise and those different entities or collaborative management by its 1445 01:29:00,720 --> 01:29:04,320 Speaker 1: nature is give and take. I mean, it's but it 1446 01:29:04,640 --> 01:29:09,840 Speaker 1: also builds on relationships and understanding a core understanding that 1447 01:29:10,600 --> 01:29:14,360 Speaker 1: my need and value really isn't that much different. Example 1448 01:29:14,439 --> 01:29:18,920 Speaker 1: being the rancher who has a piece of property but 1449 01:29:19,040 --> 01:29:25,600 Speaker 1: relies on the public sagebrush grasses to have his um lifestyle, 1450 01:29:25,720 --> 01:29:28,639 Speaker 1: his ranching lifestyle. He's got a ranche, but he needs 1451 01:29:28,640 --> 01:29:37,639 Speaker 1: the grays Catalan and and he values that environment because 1452 01:29:37,680 --> 01:29:41,080 Speaker 1: it's home. He knows it as well as anybody because 1453 01:29:41,120 --> 01:29:44,599 Speaker 1: he's lived there for maybe three or four generations, uh, 1454 01:29:44,600 --> 01:29:50,439 Speaker 1: in his family. And we can't exclude their needs and 1455 01:29:50,479 --> 01:29:55,360 Speaker 1: be successful. Example being sage grouse. Sage grouse need water 1456 01:29:55,479 --> 01:29:59,240 Speaker 1: for an important part of their brood rearing. Even in 1457 01:29:59,320 --> 01:30:01,880 Speaker 1: Idaho with all the public lands we have, which is 1458 01:30:03,000 --> 01:30:05,479 Speaker 1: federal another five percent of state, I mean, it's huge, 1459 01:30:06,479 --> 01:30:10,000 Speaker 1: almost all the waters on private land that's what was homesteaded. 1460 01:30:10,320 --> 01:30:13,080 Speaker 1: And so if you put a rancher out of business 1461 01:30:13,120 --> 01:30:15,160 Speaker 1: because you're saying you can't graze up here because of 1462 01:30:15,240 --> 01:30:19,720 Speaker 1: endangered species, and they pull their whole operation into their 1463 01:30:19,880 --> 01:30:22,960 Speaker 1: little piece of land that has all the water, and 1464 01:30:23,040 --> 01:30:26,240 Speaker 1: they began to feed there and utilize all the habitat 1465 01:30:26,320 --> 01:30:28,679 Speaker 1: up the sage grounds suffer in the long run because 1466 01:30:28,760 --> 01:30:32,840 Speaker 1: it's disconnected. We need the community. Now they get that 1467 01:30:33,479 --> 01:30:36,200 Speaker 1: what's good for the herd is good for the bird. 1468 01:30:36,520 --> 01:30:41,439 Speaker 1: Is the catchphrase that we use now right, and and 1469 01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:47,240 Speaker 1: that's exactly right. We want these operational ranches out there 1470 01:30:47,760 --> 01:30:50,479 Speaker 1: that are part of the landscape and can be managed 1471 01:30:50,680 --> 01:30:55,559 Speaker 1: in conjunction with other resources we value. They've seen it 1472 01:30:55,600 --> 01:30:58,200 Speaker 1: in the past. They know what can be done. We've 1473 01:30:58,240 --> 01:31:00,280 Speaker 1: seen it, and so now it's just a at or 1474 01:31:00,280 --> 01:31:03,360 Speaker 1: a bank. Sure, we don't restrict any of our activities 1475 01:31:03,360 --> 01:31:05,360 Speaker 1: to the point that everybody just gives up and goes home. 1476 01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:09,479 Speaker 1: And that's that's collaboration. That's the thing I warned about 1477 01:31:09,520 --> 01:31:12,760 Speaker 1: all the time, or think about. One thing about wildlife 1478 01:31:12,760 --> 01:31:16,439 Speaker 1: issues is what happens when you create the damage that's 1479 01:31:16,479 --> 01:31:20,160 Speaker 1: done when you create a spotted owl where the spot 1480 01:31:20,280 --> 01:31:22,280 Speaker 1: at out a conversation around the spot at all, the 1481 01:31:22,320 --> 01:31:25,160 Speaker 1: spot at all like ceased to be a bird and 1482 01:31:25,200 --> 01:31:28,920 Speaker 1: it became like this, this symbol of something, and it 1483 01:31:29,000 --> 01:31:31,519 Speaker 1: became like a thing of animosity, and it became a 1484 01:31:31,560 --> 01:31:34,559 Speaker 1: symbol of divisiveness. And when you allow some of these 1485 01:31:34,600 --> 01:31:38,360 Speaker 1: conflicts to go to fester and don't strive for some 1486 01:31:38,439 --> 01:31:41,240 Speaker 1: compromise and like people are coming to a mutual understanding 1487 01:31:41,240 --> 01:31:43,439 Speaker 1: of what they need to go, you end up having 1488 01:31:43,479 --> 01:31:47,120 Speaker 1: these like these like wildlife fatalities in terms of like 1489 01:31:47,160 --> 01:31:49,800 Speaker 1: what the species stands for. And it's painful to watch 1490 01:31:49,840 --> 01:31:52,160 Speaker 1: it happen, Like if you've heard the howl of a wolf, right, 1491 01:31:52,200 --> 01:31:54,280 Speaker 1: it's beautiful, but it's painful to watch it happen where 1492 01:31:54,280 --> 01:31:56,639 Speaker 1: people Like when I hear that noise, I think about 1493 01:31:56,680 --> 01:31:59,320 Speaker 1: like my needs not being listened to, man, and that's 1494 01:31:59,360 --> 01:32:01,360 Speaker 1: the only thing I'm here ring right there, And it 1495 01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:04,680 Speaker 1: sucks to see that happened to to wildlife. And I 1496 01:32:04,720 --> 01:32:06,679 Speaker 1: think the way they had that off is to usually 1497 01:32:07,680 --> 01:32:10,240 Speaker 1: you know, these ways like finding out like what you need, 1498 01:32:10,280 --> 01:32:13,040 Speaker 1: but also giving room to other people to also live 1499 01:32:13,080 --> 01:32:15,160 Speaker 1: their lives and have their needs be met. And it's 1500 01:32:15,200 --> 01:32:18,080 Speaker 1: like it's hard to do. I used to not look 1501 01:32:18,080 --> 01:32:19,680 Speaker 1: at these issues that way. When I was younger. I 1502 01:32:19,680 --> 01:32:21,280 Speaker 1: looked at him in a very rigid way, where like 1503 01:32:21,320 --> 01:32:23,679 Speaker 1: I was right, you were wrong, and you were stupid 1504 01:32:24,080 --> 01:32:26,640 Speaker 1: and I was really smart. Know, then do it? You know? 1505 01:32:26,920 --> 01:32:29,439 Speaker 1: And then the more you round and watch successes and 1506 01:32:29,439 --> 01:32:31,479 Speaker 1: failures around some of the stuff, do you more you realize, Man, 1507 01:32:32,000 --> 01:32:34,719 Speaker 1: you're never gonna get there with that attitude. That's correct. 1508 01:32:35,880 --> 01:32:38,120 Speaker 1: We never got to the question, what are some like 1509 01:32:38,800 --> 01:32:42,439 Speaker 1: big fit, what are the fishing game grapes, fish game. 1510 01:32:42,479 --> 01:32:49,400 Speaker 1: Don't know what they're talking about. They killed all the Uh, 1511 01:32:49,680 --> 01:32:52,840 Speaker 1: we want more big fish. You know, that would be 1512 01:32:53,600 --> 01:32:59,040 Speaker 1: there's no big fish simplistically, but certainly if the legitimate complaint. 1513 01:32:59,120 --> 01:33:03,000 Speaker 1: You ask what thegitimate complaint is, and it would be 1514 01:33:03,840 --> 01:33:07,759 Speaker 1: that we don't know everything about the spot you hunt. 1515 01:33:08,840 --> 01:33:10,880 Speaker 1: When you come to me and you say, do you 1516 01:33:10,880 --> 01:33:14,599 Speaker 1: know how many deer or what the buck doo ratio 1517 01:33:14,960 --> 01:33:20,480 Speaker 1: is in you know, Timber Creek of unit five, I'm 1518 01:33:20,520 --> 01:33:22,800 Speaker 1: gonna go no, but I can tell you what the 1519 01:33:22,800 --> 01:33:25,320 Speaker 1: buck doo ratio is in units three, four, and five 1520 01:33:25,920 --> 01:33:29,280 Speaker 1: overall from the combined survey work we've done. But no, 1521 01:33:30,240 --> 01:33:34,240 Speaker 1: we don't know that. And it is a legitimate complaint 1522 01:33:34,360 --> 01:33:40,960 Speaker 1: that we have set management goals based on larger survey units. 1523 01:33:41,760 --> 01:33:44,800 Speaker 1: And this person complaint is you don't know what you're 1524 01:33:44,800 --> 01:33:47,320 Speaker 1: talking about relative to Temper Creek. Because I sat the 1525 01:33:47,360 --> 01:33:50,000 Speaker 1: same blind for twenty five years and I always see 1526 01:33:50,040 --> 01:33:53,200 Speaker 1: acts of this year. I saw why, and it's legitimate 1527 01:33:53,960 --> 01:33:57,160 Speaker 1: from the standpoint of what they see. We talked about 1528 01:33:57,200 --> 01:34:01,200 Speaker 1: that earlier, and what we're trying to do now is 1529 01:34:01,280 --> 01:34:05,840 Speaker 1: look at different ways of censusing wildlife to understanding what's 1530 01:34:05,880 --> 01:34:12,799 Speaker 1: out there. Going from the traditional UH site based survey 1531 01:34:12,880 --> 01:34:16,639 Speaker 1: work where we have to see them, count them, UH, 1532 01:34:16,880 --> 01:34:21,040 Speaker 1: kill them, assess them, whatever the case may be, to 1533 01:34:21,280 --> 01:34:25,599 Speaker 1: something that provides a different level of that. I mean 1534 01:34:25,640 --> 01:34:28,680 Speaker 1: remote cameras. It's still kind of seeing, but we can 1535 01:34:28,720 --> 01:34:30,320 Speaker 1: get a lot more of them out there. I mean 1536 01:34:30,360 --> 01:34:33,520 Speaker 1: I just saw him bringing a truckload to remote cameras 1537 01:34:33,520 --> 01:34:36,040 Speaker 1: into our office that we boxed up and sent out 1538 01:34:36,080 --> 01:34:38,320 Speaker 1: to all the regions. I mean hundreds of these things 1539 01:34:38,360 --> 01:34:42,760 Speaker 1: that we're putting out and in matrix to try to 1540 01:34:42,800 --> 01:34:47,000 Speaker 1: get better understanding of what's in Timber Creek as an example, 1541 01:34:47,600 --> 01:34:51,920 Speaker 1: versus just the larger units based on aerial flights. UM. 1542 01:34:52,160 --> 01:34:57,559 Speaker 1: We're using UH hair snags and scatter analysis pulling DNA 1543 01:34:57,840 --> 01:35:02,120 Speaker 1: out of these animals so that we contract families. We 1544 01:35:02,160 --> 01:35:05,400 Speaker 1: can tell you by looking at UM d N A 1545 01:35:05,720 --> 01:35:09,679 Speaker 1: from wolf scats whether or not that represents a family 1546 01:35:09,800 --> 01:35:14,439 Speaker 1: unit and whether or not they were successful with getting 1547 01:35:14,720 --> 01:35:18,920 Speaker 1: a pair of getting a brood off just by getting 1548 01:35:19,160 --> 01:35:23,280 Speaker 1: proper sampling of pieces and parts because we can type 1549 01:35:23,280 --> 01:35:30,400 Speaker 1: those our ability today with advanced computer analysis and the 1550 01:35:30,439 --> 01:35:32,640 Speaker 1: speed at which we can do things from when I 1551 01:35:32,720 --> 01:35:37,960 Speaker 1: started my career uh is, I can't even fathom it. 1552 01:35:38,040 --> 01:35:41,519 Speaker 1: I mean, DNA analysis is a good example. We have 1553 01:35:41,800 --> 01:35:46,719 Speaker 1: the DNA makeup of every hatchery fish we stalk out 1554 01:35:47,920 --> 01:35:51,280 Speaker 1: and and and it's it's amazing that we have parental 1555 01:35:51,360 --> 01:35:54,639 Speaker 1: based stock analysis. You take a fish in the ocean, 1556 01:35:55,040 --> 01:35:57,559 Speaker 1: I can take a fin clipper a swab off of 1557 01:35:57,600 --> 01:35:59,680 Speaker 1: that fish, can run an analysis and I can tell 1558 01:35:59,720 --> 01:36:01,599 Speaker 1: you which hatchery it came out of, and which female 1559 01:36:01,680 --> 01:36:05,639 Speaker 1: produced it and and that, and I can do it 1560 01:36:05,840 --> 01:36:09,080 Speaker 1: darn near in a couple of days. I mean, it 1561 01:36:09,080 --> 01:36:12,160 Speaker 1: would have taken you months to pull something like that 1562 01:36:12,200 --> 01:36:14,960 Speaker 1: off before, and not with that specificity. But I got 1563 01:36:15,040 --> 01:36:17,360 Speaker 1: a lab full of people that are cranking this stuff out, 1564 01:36:17,400 --> 01:36:20,839 Speaker 1: and it's going on all over the place, and and 1565 01:36:21,560 --> 01:36:26,479 Speaker 1: we're advancing and trying to push the limit. That's the science, 1566 01:36:26,560 --> 01:36:30,160 Speaker 1: that's the science fiction almost of wildlife management. As we 1567 01:36:30,200 --> 01:36:34,200 Speaker 1: move forward, it doesn't eliminate the hands on stuff, the 1568 01:36:34,400 --> 01:36:36,920 Speaker 1: trapping of animals to put collars on them so we 1569 01:36:36,960 --> 01:36:39,880 Speaker 1: can go in and assess how they died, whether it 1570 01:36:40,040 --> 01:36:45,439 Speaker 1: was predation, natural whatever. Get better at that, um we 1571 01:36:45,560 --> 01:36:48,000 Speaker 1: still have a lot of that, the fun stuff jumping 1572 01:36:48,000 --> 01:36:50,400 Speaker 1: out of a helicopter on a on a calf elk 1573 01:36:50,479 --> 01:36:53,760 Speaker 1: and wrestling it to the ground. Uh. Catching fish in 1574 01:36:53,840 --> 01:36:56,759 Speaker 1: a trap and putting tags on them. That's fun. Handling 1575 01:36:56,760 --> 01:36:59,519 Speaker 1: wildlife is really a kick. It's what got me into 1576 01:36:59,600 --> 01:37:04,240 Speaker 1: this business. Uh, and learning from that. But we're we're 1577 01:37:04,320 --> 01:37:08,200 Speaker 1: trying to get better at this. And you know, drone 1578 01:37:08,200 --> 01:37:12,360 Speaker 1: technology and infrared technology isn't quite there yet. But I 1579 01:37:12,360 --> 01:37:15,719 Speaker 1: mean these satellite collars we put on elk now beam 1580 01:37:15,760 --> 01:37:18,320 Speaker 1: up to satellite back down to the computer. They're instantly 1581 01:37:18,320 --> 01:37:20,640 Speaker 1: on a map, and we can program them to do 1582 01:37:20,720 --> 01:37:24,479 Speaker 1: it every five minutes, every hour, every ten hours, depending 1583 01:37:24,520 --> 01:37:26,800 Speaker 1: on what we want. And we're able to use that 1584 01:37:26,880 --> 01:37:30,000 Speaker 1: to help landowners understand where an elker it is relative 1585 01:37:30,000 --> 01:37:34,080 Speaker 1: to depredation on their haystack. And and that's real time 1586 01:37:34,280 --> 01:37:38,320 Speaker 1: management while we track some stuff around. So you're working 1587 01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:40,080 Speaker 1: towards being able to tell that guy what's going on 1588 01:37:40,080 --> 01:37:42,800 Speaker 1: in front of his blood. That's the legitimate complaint. We've 1589 01:37:42,840 --> 01:37:46,479 Speaker 1: heard it. We're working on it, using technology and trying 1590 01:37:46,479 --> 01:37:51,559 Speaker 1: to put more resources into it. Uh. Fortunately in Idaho, 1591 01:37:52,160 --> 01:37:56,080 Speaker 1: our finances are secure for the time being. We went 1592 01:37:56,080 --> 01:37:58,679 Speaker 1: through a low like everybody else when the economy tanked. 1593 01:37:59,640 --> 01:38:04,720 Speaker 1: Are revenues dropped by uh, real quick. Why are you 1594 01:38:04,880 --> 01:38:08,759 Speaker 1: tied to the economy, because people, that's good question, Steve. 1595 01:38:08,880 --> 01:38:12,080 Speaker 1: We're tied to the economy because half of our licensed 1596 01:38:12,160 --> 01:38:15,280 Speaker 1: revenue comes from non residents, but there are only ten 1597 01:38:15,800 --> 01:38:20,040 Speaker 1: of our hunters. And in the past say that again. 1598 01:38:20,040 --> 01:38:22,519 Speaker 1: I want people to hear this. Half of our revenue, 1599 01:38:22,520 --> 01:38:25,799 Speaker 1: our licensed revenue, which is around forty four million dollars 1600 01:38:25,840 --> 01:38:27,920 Speaker 1: a year, half of that, a little over half of 1601 01:38:27,960 --> 01:38:33,880 Speaker 1: it comes from non resident hunters. Now, we have a 1602 01:38:33,920 --> 01:38:39,599 Speaker 1: lot of non resident fishermen, but they don't generate nearly 1603 01:38:39,640 --> 01:38:42,040 Speaker 1: the same money because they're buying one day. It's it's 1604 01:38:42,040 --> 01:38:45,240 Speaker 1: a high volume, low cost problem. The economy goes south, 1605 01:38:45,640 --> 01:38:47,760 Speaker 1: people are like, I can't, I can't go to idle hunting. 1606 01:38:47,800 --> 01:38:51,200 Speaker 1: This year. We did not realize how sensitive it was. 1607 01:38:51,439 --> 01:38:54,160 Speaker 1: We'd never seen it before. But when the economy tanked 1608 01:38:54,160 --> 01:38:58,559 Speaker 1: in two thousand nine. We have a quota on non 1609 01:38:58,640 --> 01:39:04,320 Speaker 1: resident hunting permits in Idaho. Um it's thirteen thousand, five 1610 01:39:04,400 --> 01:39:09,240 Speaker 1: hundred elk tags fifteen thousand, five hundred deer tags. When 1611 01:39:09,320 --> 01:39:14,120 Speaker 1: those are gone for general hunting, they're gone. We've never 1612 01:39:14,160 --> 01:39:17,639 Speaker 1: sold We've never not sold those out up until two 1613 01:39:17,640 --> 01:39:21,360 Speaker 1: thousand nine, No kid, no kidding, we always sold them out, 1614 01:39:21,360 --> 01:39:25,679 Speaker 1: so half of our revenue was guaranteed. And and we 1615 01:39:25,680 --> 01:39:29,040 Speaker 1: we did three things. We raised the price of non 1616 01:39:29,080 --> 01:39:31,880 Speaker 1: resident fees so we didn't have to raise them on resident. 1617 01:39:32,640 --> 01:39:36,520 Speaker 1: Our elk herds tanked because of predation and other habitat 1618 01:39:36,600 --> 01:39:41,439 Speaker 1: related issues, and the economy tanked. All three of those 1619 01:39:41,479 --> 01:39:44,360 Speaker 1: things combined over a four year period to drive our 1620 01:39:44,560 --> 01:39:50,640 Speaker 1: revenues UH down by nine million dollars UH. It was huge, 1621 01:39:50,680 --> 01:39:55,280 Speaker 1: It was huge. And what we found is non residents 1622 01:39:55,320 --> 01:40:00,320 Speaker 1: are elastic in their coming here and further analysis, that 1623 01:40:00,479 --> 01:40:03,520 Speaker 1: was partially the perception that our elk herds had collapsed 1624 01:40:04,040 --> 01:40:07,280 Speaker 1: and it wasn't worth it. The other part was a 1625 01:40:07,280 --> 01:40:10,120 Speaker 1: big portion of those people who stayed away were skilled 1626 01:40:10,160 --> 01:40:16,880 Speaker 1: trades folks construction. Construction got hit hardest, and those guys 1627 01:40:16,920 --> 01:40:20,639 Speaker 1: were selling their trucks to feed the family they were 1628 01:40:20,680 --> 01:40:25,080 Speaker 1: they were not working because the housing market collapsed. Then 1629 01:40:25,360 --> 01:40:27,360 Speaker 1: as soon as the economy started coming up about a 1630 01:40:27,400 --> 01:40:32,280 Speaker 1: year behind that, and then people got over the price increases. Man, 1631 01:40:32,360 --> 01:40:36,080 Speaker 1: we we discounted nonresident products we marketed to them. But 1632 01:40:36,280 --> 01:40:38,600 Speaker 1: the last two years we sold all of our nonresident 1633 01:40:38,640 --> 01:40:41,160 Speaker 1: product out again, does this state keep trying? I mean, 1634 01:40:41,160 --> 01:40:44,520 Speaker 1: I'm sure they do, but um, I know, the Montana 1635 01:40:44,560 --> 01:40:48,799 Speaker 1: Guides and Outfitters Association just put out a reported said 1636 01:40:48,920 --> 01:40:53,200 Speaker 1: the outdoor recreation industry in Montana brings in like seven 1637 01:40:53,200 --> 01:40:59,479 Speaker 1: point one billion annually. We have those numbers for hunting 1638 01:40:59,600 --> 01:41:05,679 Speaker 1: and fishing in Idaho. I believe the direct economic benefit 1639 01:41:05,920 --> 01:41:09,320 Speaker 1: is one point four billion. Okay, I know who has 1640 01:41:09,360 --> 01:41:13,599 Speaker 1: an economy of about sixties six billion, So that gives 1641 01:41:13,600 --> 01:41:16,439 Speaker 1: you some sense of where it fits. It's a pretty 1642 01:41:16,439 --> 01:41:21,479 Speaker 1: sizeable number. And and then wildlife viewing adds about another 1643 01:41:21,520 --> 01:41:24,200 Speaker 1: six million to that. So we're about a two billion 1644 01:41:24,280 --> 01:41:28,760 Speaker 1: dollar uh economic activity in the state on a wildlife 1645 01:41:28,760 --> 01:41:34,439 Speaker 1: based economic activity, all outdoor based recreation is I think 1646 01:41:35,360 --> 01:41:39,120 Speaker 1: it's a six billion Okay, it's it's it's at that 1647 01:41:39,240 --> 01:41:42,479 Speaker 1: six billion dollars figures. So you know, just under ten 1648 01:41:42,520 --> 01:41:45,200 Speaker 1: percent of the economy of the state is outdoor based 1649 01:41:45,800 --> 01:41:49,639 Speaker 1: and a third of that is based on wildlife. So 1650 01:41:49,840 --> 01:41:53,360 Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's important, and we can drill that down. 1651 01:41:53,439 --> 01:41:55,400 Speaker 1: We've been the surveys. If you want to know how 1652 01:41:55,479 --> 01:41:58,759 Speaker 1: much people what the economic benefits are of somebody fishing, 1653 01:41:58,960 --> 01:42:02,080 Speaker 1: Um Uh, Henry's like, I can go to the file 1654 01:42:02,120 --> 01:42:04,439 Speaker 1: and pulling information up and today I mean fish they caught, 1655 01:42:04,640 --> 01:42:06,840 Speaker 1: how much money they spent, how they much money spent 1656 01:42:06,880 --> 01:42:10,440 Speaker 1: on groceries and housing. We've got that information from surveys 1657 01:42:10,479 --> 01:42:12,559 Speaker 1: and we can give it to county commissioners who can 1658 01:42:12,600 --> 01:42:15,719 Speaker 1: live at the local working group. And it's big. It's big. 1659 01:42:16,080 --> 01:42:21,120 Speaker 1: So tell me a classification of grape that you feel 1660 01:42:21,240 --> 01:42:24,559 Speaker 1: is illegitimate, Like, what's the thing you guys in your 1661 01:42:24,600 --> 01:42:28,760 Speaker 1: business people are like, oh, fishing game and you're like, man, 1662 01:42:28,840 --> 01:42:32,560 Speaker 1: that just isn't fair. There's probably two One is you 1663 01:42:32,680 --> 01:42:37,040 Speaker 1: never listen. You never listen to us, You never do 1664 01:42:37,160 --> 01:42:42,439 Speaker 1: what I want done, and and I get it, but 1665 01:42:42,520 --> 01:42:46,599 Speaker 1: it's not a legitimate complaint given the amount of public 1666 01:42:46,640 --> 01:42:52,280 Speaker 1: input that our agency seeks. The requirements for public input 1667 01:42:52,400 --> 01:42:55,320 Speaker 1: of a state agency are minimal. I mean it's like 1668 01:42:55,400 --> 01:42:59,479 Speaker 1: one public meeting before the commission makes decision. Gosh, we 1669 01:42:59,560 --> 01:43:03,519 Speaker 1: have dozens, if not hundreds of public meetings over a 1670 01:43:03,640 --> 01:43:08,280 Speaker 1: year in advance of regulations, setting opportunities for input electronically 1671 01:43:08,280 --> 01:43:11,439 Speaker 1: in other ways. So I don't consider those to be 1672 01:43:11,760 --> 01:43:17,800 Speaker 1: legitimate complaints because there's so many opportunities What that might 1673 01:43:17,880 --> 01:43:20,439 Speaker 1: mean is I told him my opinion and it wasn't 1674 01:43:20,479 --> 01:43:24,280 Speaker 1: reflected and what ultimately happened. So the other one is 1675 01:43:25,640 --> 01:43:28,679 Speaker 1: you don't know what you're talking about. In other words, 1676 01:43:28,840 --> 01:43:32,400 Speaker 1: will do a survey, whether it's a social survey that 1677 01:43:32,520 --> 01:43:36,240 Speaker 1: asked for uh, Steve, you get a survey from us 1678 01:43:36,240 --> 01:43:40,120 Speaker 1: and it says, uh, you know, are you satisfied with 1679 01:43:40,280 --> 01:43:47,400 Speaker 1: deer hunting? Um? Would you be satisfied with? Uh? Fewer 1680 01:43:47,800 --> 01:43:52,400 Speaker 1: large bucks but more hunting opportunity? A bunch of social 1681 01:43:52,439 --> 01:43:55,920 Speaker 1: science questions that we worked with the university design and 1682 01:43:55,960 --> 01:43:58,000 Speaker 1: they go back and they go, we don't believe any 1683 01:43:58,040 --> 01:44:02,800 Speaker 1: of this. Yeah, it doesn't conform with my opinion, so 1684 01:44:02,840 --> 01:44:06,080 Speaker 1: we don't believe it. And so and we see the 1685 01:44:06,160 --> 01:44:09,920 Speaker 1: same thing from deer and elk population surveys. They go 1686 01:44:10,600 --> 01:44:13,360 Speaker 1: because they didn't see it, We don't believe that. You 1687 01:44:13,439 --> 01:44:16,439 Speaker 1: do not know what you're talking about. That is not 1688 01:44:16,560 --> 01:44:20,880 Speaker 1: a legitimate complaint. Okay. We are a science based organization, 1689 01:44:21,280 --> 01:44:25,839 Speaker 1: whether it's social science, whether it's biological science. I'll stand 1690 01:44:25,840 --> 01:44:28,120 Speaker 1: on our science. And I can tell you, having been 1691 01:44:28,200 --> 01:44:32,200 Speaker 1: a in a leadership role in a state agency for 1692 01:44:32,280 --> 01:44:37,080 Speaker 1: over a decade and working nationally among my peers and 1693 01:44:37,120 --> 01:44:39,840 Speaker 1: other state agencies. I can tell you that in the 1694 01:44:39,880 --> 01:44:42,960 Speaker 1: Inner Mountain West, we have some of the finest fish 1695 01:44:42,960 --> 01:44:47,240 Speaker 1: and wildlife scientists in the world. And in Idaho we 1696 01:44:47,280 --> 01:44:50,559 Speaker 1: know more about predation management and ungulent management than just 1697 01:44:50,640 --> 01:44:53,320 Speaker 1: about anybody in the world. I mean, we're we're on 1698 01:44:53,400 --> 01:44:56,880 Speaker 1: top of the game and and I'm proud of that. Now, 1699 01:44:56,920 --> 01:44:59,800 Speaker 1: do we have things we don't know. Absolutely. Do we 1700 01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:03,880 Speaker 1: have more to learn and more to do, absolutely, But 1701 01:45:04,040 --> 01:45:08,200 Speaker 1: don't say we don't know what we're doing. Just understand 1702 01:45:08,280 --> 01:45:10,800 Speaker 1: we don't know everything and we're still trying to get that. 1703 01:45:10,960 --> 01:45:15,080 Speaker 1: So that would be what I would consider. The other 1704 01:45:15,160 --> 01:45:17,519 Speaker 1: thing that really bothers me that I consider is when 1705 01:45:17,600 --> 01:45:22,880 Speaker 1: people personalize their interaction with department staff. I don't like Steve, 1706 01:45:23,840 --> 01:45:30,120 Speaker 1: Steve didn't approach me properly. Um that very well could be. 1707 01:45:30,160 --> 01:45:35,479 Speaker 1: And every complaint I get of a negative interaction with 1708 01:45:35,880 --> 01:45:41,360 Speaker 1: staff is fully investigated and responded to, and so I 1709 01:45:41,479 --> 01:45:45,160 Speaker 1: end up knowing that most of these are not legitimate. 1710 01:45:45,200 --> 01:45:50,080 Speaker 1: In fact, it's it's very seldom that I find one 1711 01:45:50,280 --> 01:45:52,880 Speaker 1: in the time that I've spent investigating these over the 1712 01:45:53,000 --> 01:45:57,360 Speaker 1: last twenty years, that you find a complaint it's usually 1713 01:45:57,479 --> 01:46:03,200 Speaker 1: because the individual didn't get the outcome, whether it was 1714 01:46:03,240 --> 01:46:06,519 Speaker 1: he got a citation where he got information he didn't want, 1715 01:46:06,680 --> 01:46:09,559 Speaker 1: or whatever the case may be. And ultimately, when you 1716 01:46:09,640 --> 01:46:13,800 Speaker 1: go back through and and find the facts, it's it's 1717 01:46:13,840 --> 01:46:17,599 Speaker 1: not there. And that doesn't mean that the person didn't 1718 01:46:17,720 --> 01:46:22,160 Speaker 1: feel that way, but that didn't actually happen that way. 1719 01:46:22,280 --> 01:46:25,920 Speaker 1: That's one of the advantages of tape recorders and video cams. Uh. 1720 01:46:25,960 --> 01:46:29,160 Speaker 1: It pretty much takes care of we I've actually seen 1721 01:46:29,200 --> 01:46:33,000 Speaker 1: people look at those and go, oh, I had no 1722 01:46:33,120 --> 01:46:36,680 Speaker 1: idea I did that. You know, they don't remember that 1723 01:46:36,880 --> 01:46:39,759 Speaker 1: part of it. You know, that's it's we have selective 1724 01:46:39,800 --> 01:46:42,800 Speaker 1: memory as humans, and it's just the way it happens sometimes. 1725 01:46:43,640 --> 01:46:46,960 Speaker 1: Has it been, um what we miss say? Any of 1726 01:46:46,960 --> 01:46:48,599 Speaker 1: you were dying to get into that we can get in? Well, 1727 01:46:48,720 --> 01:46:50,760 Speaker 1: I I will say one of the other things that 1728 01:46:50,840 --> 01:46:53,360 Speaker 1: I think is important and important to all of you 1729 01:46:53,360 --> 01:46:56,640 Speaker 1: guys around the table is public access. Certainly, in a 1730 01:46:56,680 --> 01:46:59,280 Speaker 1: public lands state, we tend to think of and take 1731 01:46:59,320 --> 01:47:02,400 Speaker 1: our Public Act access, but we also have a huge 1732 01:47:02,400 --> 01:47:05,640 Speaker 1: amount of private land. And in Idaho we had an 1733 01:47:05,680 --> 01:47:08,439 Speaker 1: out of state person from Texas come in and buy 1734 01:47:08,560 --> 01:47:13,760 Speaker 1: up UM a hundred thousand plus acres of timber land 1735 01:47:14,160 --> 01:47:17,879 Speaker 1: and immediately fenced and closed at all the public access 1736 01:47:17,920 --> 01:47:22,200 Speaker 1: where the UH Corporate Timber Company had allowed public access 1737 01:47:22,240 --> 01:47:25,719 Speaker 1: on it before. UH. It was a huge eye opener 1738 01:47:26,160 --> 01:47:31,360 Speaker 1: UH to sportsman and us to suddenly have lost a 1739 01:47:31,520 --> 01:47:34,719 Speaker 1: big chunk of a hunting unit that was very important 1740 01:47:34,760 --> 01:47:38,200 Speaker 1: to folks, and it caused us to really start thinking 1741 01:47:38,240 --> 01:47:42,120 Speaker 1: about how do we enhance our ability to protect these 1742 01:47:42,240 --> 01:47:46,360 Speaker 1: large corporate lands from being closed so that the public 1743 01:47:46,400 --> 01:47:49,760 Speaker 1: can continue to enjoy the wildlife that they own that 1744 01:47:49,800 --> 01:47:52,639 Speaker 1: we manage for them on those private lands as well. 1745 01:47:53,400 --> 01:47:56,840 Speaker 1: So two years ago the legislature gave us some additional 1746 01:47:57,000 --> 01:48:00,360 Speaker 1: funds with a fee increase we asked for. UH. Part 1747 01:48:00,400 --> 01:48:02,920 Speaker 1: of it went to pay for depredation damage, to increase 1748 01:48:03,040 --> 01:48:05,880 Speaker 1: in the license increase, license fee increations, like what you're 1749 01:48:05,920 --> 01:48:08,160 Speaker 1: doing with that money and what we're doing, and a 1750 01:48:08,200 --> 01:48:10,960 Speaker 1: part of it was to enhance what we call access. Yes, 1751 01:48:11,680 --> 01:48:13,360 Speaker 1: it's a program we've had for a lot of a 1752 01:48:13,400 --> 01:48:16,439 Speaker 1: lot of years, but it was bubbling along with three 1753 01:48:16,560 --> 01:48:18,880 Speaker 1: or four hundred thousand dollars, most of it coming in 1754 01:48:19,040 --> 01:48:24,639 Speaker 1: from our lottery big game tag super Hunt. People would 1755 01:48:24,640 --> 01:48:28,040 Speaker 1: buy those chances, and that was funding our accesses program. 1756 01:48:28,080 --> 01:48:33,599 Speaker 1: Now you pay money on every license sold, whether it's hunting, fishing, 1757 01:48:33,600 --> 01:48:36,759 Speaker 1: it's a five dollar fee. A portion of that five dollars, 1758 01:48:36,800 --> 01:48:40,719 Speaker 1: about half of it goes into the access account. And 1759 01:48:41,000 --> 01:48:46,000 Speaker 1: now we're we've added about one point four million UH 1760 01:48:46,080 --> 01:48:51,120 Speaker 1: to that account. Uh, so effectively tripling what we've got 1761 01:48:51,120 --> 01:48:54,880 Speaker 1: available for access yes. Uh and that money goes towards 1762 01:48:54,880 --> 01:48:59,480 Speaker 1: me can privately and be the corporator just private deeded properties. 1763 01:48:59,680 --> 01:49:02,960 Speaker 1: It's to direct public access to that there to that 1764 01:49:03,040 --> 01:49:05,640 Speaker 1: land to hunt and fish, or through that land to 1765 01:49:05,680 --> 01:49:07,840 Speaker 1: get to public lands. Either way, we can do it 1766 01:49:07,880 --> 01:49:10,880 Speaker 1: either way. We've had real success for upland bird hunting 1767 01:49:10,880 --> 01:49:12,840 Speaker 1: and some stuff like that around the Boise area and 1768 01:49:12,920 --> 01:49:14,920 Speaker 1: some of the southern part of the state. We've not 1769 01:49:15,040 --> 01:49:17,280 Speaker 1: had a lot of success in the large corporate lands 1770 01:49:17,280 --> 01:49:21,240 Speaker 1: in the center in northern part of the state. UM. 1771 01:49:21,439 --> 01:49:25,160 Speaker 1: We also had a threat to state lands. Our state 1772 01:49:25,280 --> 01:49:28,680 Speaker 1: lands are about four million or about two point four 1773 01:49:28,720 --> 01:49:32,880 Speaker 1: million acres and they were under threat of lease for 1774 01:49:32,920 --> 01:49:35,960 Speaker 1: exclusive use. We've had some people saying, I want to 1775 01:49:36,120 --> 01:49:40,120 Speaker 1: lease this state section that's next to my private land 1776 01:49:40,400 --> 01:49:43,760 Speaker 1: for exclusive use for hunting. And fishing. So far we've 1777 01:49:43,760 --> 01:49:47,880 Speaker 1: been able to sidestep that, but state law requires the 1778 01:49:48,720 --> 01:49:52,680 Speaker 1: Department of Lands to generate maximum revenue for schools for 1779 01:49:52,760 --> 01:49:54,960 Speaker 1: the School Trust Fund. Some guys willing to pay more 1780 01:49:55,000 --> 01:49:58,120 Speaker 1: than what the public we don't have any choice. So 1781 01:49:58,360 --> 01:50:02,439 Speaker 1: we just signed an agreement with Department of Lands, approved 1782 01:50:02,439 --> 01:50:06,920 Speaker 1: by the Landboard and our Commission, that we use a 1783 01:50:06,960 --> 01:50:11,200 Speaker 1: portion of that access sus money. We're paying departmental Lands 1784 01:50:11,280 --> 01:50:17,400 Speaker 1: for all access to their lands, um every bit of 1785 01:50:17,400 --> 01:50:21,599 Speaker 1: it for hunting, fishing, and wildlife based recreation. So we've 1786 01:50:21,640 --> 01:50:26,599 Speaker 1: preserved the opportunity now and diminish the likelihood of an 1787 01:50:26,600 --> 01:50:33,040 Speaker 1: adverse um exclusive use agreement on those lands. That's that's 1788 01:50:33,080 --> 01:50:37,559 Speaker 1: gonna cost us about dollars a year. Do you feel 1789 01:50:37,600 --> 01:50:40,559 Speaker 1: all in all, you guys are right now every year 1790 01:50:40,720 --> 01:50:43,920 Speaker 1: adding to accessible acre do you think I had a 1791 01:50:43,920 --> 01:50:49,000 Speaker 1: net loss when when all things are considered. UM, I 1792 01:50:49,040 --> 01:50:53,080 Speaker 1: hope to announce shortly that we have an agreement on 1793 01:50:53,160 --> 01:50:57,639 Speaker 1: private timber land that will secure access to another million 1794 01:50:57,680 --> 01:51:01,880 Speaker 1: acres of of land in the next couple of weeks, 1795 01:51:02,280 --> 01:51:04,960 Speaker 1: and with that agreement we will have a net game. 1796 01:51:06,280 --> 01:51:11,040 Speaker 1: So we're using that additional money, and we went out 1797 01:51:11,120 --> 01:51:17,160 Speaker 1: for proposals for what we call large corporate landholders. What 1798 01:51:17,160 --> 01:51:21,600 Speaker 1: would you propose to us for a fee that we 1799 01:51:21,640 --> 01:51:24,559 Speaker 1: could pay you to gain access for handing and fishing 1800 01:51:24,920 --> 01:51:28,479 Speaker 1: to your large corporate lands. We have those proposals, were 1801 01:51:28,520 --> 01:51:34,880 Speaker 1: evaluating those proposals, were very close to agreeing to some 1802 01:51:35,040 --> 01:51:37,840 Speaker 1: of those proposals at this point in time. That will 1803 01:51:37,880 --> 01:51:41,639 Speaker 1: add in excess of a million acres. Yeah, I'm I'm 1804 01:51:41,640 --> 01:51:43,439 Speaker 1: really proud of that and the staff work that went 1805 01:51:43,479 --> 01:51:47,720 Speaker 1: into it. My hats off to our legislature for allowing 1806 01:51:47,760 --> 01:51:51,599 Speaker 1: that increase to be dedicated to that purpose as well. 1807 01:51:52,479 --> 01:51:55,599 Speaker 1: But it's it's a biggie and I see that as 1808 01:51:55,680 --> 01:52:01,320 Speaker 1: giving us the annual financial resources uh needed to secure 1809 01:52:01,360 --> 01:52:06,080 Speaker 1: this into the future. So um, I just wanted to 1810 01:52:06,080 --> 01:52:09,040 Speaker 1: get that in there, Steve that that of all the 1811 01:52:09,080 --> 01:52:11,880 Speaker 1: things we hear from sportsman, even in a public state, 1812 01:52:12,720 --> 01:52:15,919 Speaker 1: is access. They want more access or I lost my access. 1813 01:52:16,080 --> 01:52:18,840 Speaker 1: What you said, it's and uh somebody shut it down. 1814 01:52:18,840 --> 01:52:22,800 Speaker 1: A private entity bought that forty acres or twenty or 1815 01:52:23,040 --> 01:52:26,880 Speaker 1: three sixty or whatever it is, and it's now posted. Uh. 1816 01:52:26,920 --> 01:52:29,880 Speaker 1: It's it's important that we're actually meeting here at the 1817 01:52:29,880 --> 01:52:33,720 Speaker 1: on X place because this idea of where are you 1818 01:52:33,840 --> 01:52:38,800 Speaker 1: at and trespass is very important and private landowners are 1819 01:52:38,880 --> 01:52:42,920 Speaker 1: very sensitive to trespass. But how do you know? There's 1820 01:52:42,960 --> 01:52:46,280 Speaker 1: some posting requirements, but it's still in a big open 1821 01:52:46,320 --> 01:52:48,560 Speaker 1: state like this where you wander up one side of 1822 01:52:48,600 --> 01:52:50,240 Speaker 1: the mountain down the other and you come in on 1823 01:52:50,240 --> 01:52:51,960 Speaker 1: the backside and you walk up to a fence it's 1824 01:52:52,000 --> 01:52:54,200 Speaker 1: next to the road and it's posted, and you didn't 1825 01:52:54,240 --> 01:52:57,280 Speaker 1: see anything when you came down the other side. Where 1826 01:52:57,439 --> 01:53:00,599 Speaker 1: is it your responsibility to know where you're at versus 1827 01:53:00,800 --> 01:53:05,200 Speaker 1: the landowner's responsibility to post? And we're moving responsibility to know? 1828 01:53:05,520 --> 01:53:09,280 Speaker 1: I agree, and Idaho there is some posting responsibilities of 1829 01:53:09,360 --> 01:53:13,920 Speaker 1: the private landowner on non agricultural land basically timber and 1830 01:53:14,000 --> 01:53:17,680 Speaker 1: range land. But I think we're very quickly moving to 1831 01:53:17,720 --> 01:53:20,479 Speaker 1: the point where you've got to know where you're at 1832 01:53:20,520 --> 01:53:25,120 Speaker 1: all the time near it's your responsibility, not the landowners 1833 01:53:25,200 --> 01:53:29,599 Speaker 1: to know it. It is. But again, does everybody carry, 1834 01:53:29,840 --> 01:53:34,400 Speaker 1: you know, a smartphone or a GPS around with them? No? Uh, 1835 01:53:34,479 --> 01:53:37,400 Speaker 1: most of us do that are avid, but not everybody 1836 01:53:37,439 --> 01:53:40,439 Speaker 1: else does. And so part of it is getting the mapping, 1837 01:53:40,520 --> 01:53:43,760 Speaker 1: getting the information out there, and again the technology to 1838 01:53:43,800 --> 01:53:47,439 Speaker 1: do that, and uh, certainly talking about it, letting people 1839 01:53:47,479 --> 01:53:50,479 Speaker 1: know that in Idaho, you can go on our website 1840 01:53:50,520 --> 01:53:53,200 Speaker 1: and we have a hunt planner. You say, I want 1841 01:53:53,200 --> 01:53:54,800 Speaker 1: to go hunt white tailed deer and I want to 1842 01:53:54,840 --> 01:53:56,960 Speaker 1: hunt it in Timber Creek and game I use my 1843 01:53:57,000 --> 01:53:59,559 Speaker 1: example again. It'll pull up the maps to show you 1844 01:54:00,040 --> 01:54:05,960 Speaker 1: it is an excellent spot, right, that's better. Uh, And 1845 01:54:05,960 --> 01:54:08,120 Speaker 1: and it'll tell you the land ownership, it'll tell you 1846 01:54:08,200 --> 01:54:11,719 Speaker 1: the regulations, It'll tell you everything about that piece of land. 1847 01:54:12,240 --> 01:54:14,920 Speaker 1: However you want to scale it to look at what 1848 01:54:15,000 --> 01:54:18,479 Speaker 1: you can do in that area. And couple that with 1849 01:54:18,600 --> 01:54:22,280 Speaker 1: these machines and and uh some other third party software, 1850 01:54:22,320 --> 01:54:24,240 Speaker 1: so you know where you're at all the time, you're 1851 01:54:24,240 --> 01:54:30,400 Speaker 1: good to go. And and I've still got I would 1852 01:54:30,560 --> 01:54:34,200 Speaker 1: have to say dozens. That's probably hundreds of quad maps 1853 01:54:34,240 --> 01:54:37,560 Speaker 1: that are folded up in in the under. The came 1854 01:54:37,560 --> 01:54:39,880 Speaker 1: to the seat of my truck and I pull those 1855 01:54:39,920 --> 01:54:42,320 Speaker 1: things out and jam them in my backpack. I still 1856 01:54:42,360 --> 01:54:46,320 Speaker 1: carry a real compass with me because these things aren't reliable. 1857 01:54:46,400 --> 01:54:50,120 Speaker 1: The batteries go dead, you don't have access. I forgot 1858 01:54:50,160 --> 01:54:52,680 Speaker 1: to download that so it was on residence. I still 1859 01:54:52,880 --> 01:54:55,000 Speaker 1: still value paper maps. I think they still have a role. 1860 01:54:55,480 --> 01:54:58,360 Speaker 1: I agree, and I think it's something that uh we 1861 01:54:58,520 --> 01:55:03,600 Speaker 1: as mentors hunters should be teaching them. UH. And if 1862 01:55:03,600 --> 01:55:05,919 Speaker 1: there's a last thing I want to say about Idaho 1863 01:55:05,920 --> 01:55:09,400 Speaker 1: being the opportunity state and the need for us as 1864 01:55:09,520 --> 01:55:14,680 Speaker 1: hunters and anglers to mentor people in to teach them 1865 01:55:14,800 --> 01:55:20,200 Speaker 1: the ethics and the responsible interaction with wildlife, the respect 1866 01:55:20,360 --> 01:55:23,680 Speaker 1: for that wildlife, live or dead, that needs to be 1867 01:55:24,040 --> 01:55:29,280 Speaker 1: there as we utilize it, consume it, enjoy it, uh, 1868 01:55:29,720 --> 01:55:33,960 Speaker 1: reveling the experiences around the campfire, which we all do. Uh, 1869 01:55:33,960 --> 01:55:36,800 Speaker 1: those are important. I'm proud to say that in Idaho 1870 01:55:37,240 --> 01:55:40,920 Speaker 1: we have a thing called the passport. If you're a 1871 01:55:41,000 --> 01:55:45,840 Speaker 1: hunter and you know somebody that's never hunted, and it 1872 01:55:45,880 --> 01:55:49,640 Speaker 1: doesn't make any difference whether they're a kid or an adult. 1873 01:55:50,040 --> 01:55:54,240 Speaker 1: Somebody moves into town and sees that you're a hunter, 1874 01:55:55,080 --> 01:55:57,360 Speaker 1: I would really like to go up, but they don't 1875 01:55:57,360 --> 01:55:59,800 Speaker 1: have hunter head or anything else. You can go down 1876 01:55:59,840 --> 01:56:03,320 Speaker 1: to the to the license vendor and as a hunter, 1877 01:56:03,440 --> 01:56:07,640 Speaker 1: you can sponsor that person and get a passport. That 1878 01:56:07,960 --> 01:56:13,720 Speaker 1: is what's the cost of it, three seventy dollar seventy five. 1879 01:56:14,160 --> 01:56:15,920 Speaker 1: Then you can if you want to take them deer hunt, 1880 01:56:15,920 --> 01:56:18,520 Speaker 1: You buy a deer tag to go with it, go 1881 01:56:18,640 --> 01:56:21,560 Speaker 1: out and shoot birds for how long that year and 1882 01:56:21,640 --> 01:56:23,200 Speaker 1: then that then that person has to get it together 1883 01:56:23,240 --> 01:56:26,600 Speaker 1: and go take It's one time opportunity to mantor somebody. 1884 01:56:26,600 --> 01:56:31,320 Speaker 1: But it's great it it gets this obstacle. Oh gosh, 1885 01:56:31,320 --> 01:56:32,800 Speaker 1: I'd really like to go with you, but I don't 1886 01:56:32,880 --> 01:56:36,680 Speaker 1: have for sure I can get that for you. You're 1887 01:56:36,760 --> 01:56:39,360 Speaker 1: ready to go up again. We came up against that 1888 01:56:39,400 --> 01:56:44,080 Speaker 1: over Thanksgiving weekend because um, we're all kind of half 1889 01:56:44,240 --> 01:56:46,960 Speaker 1: doing Thanksgiving family stuff, we're all kind of half hunting, 1890 01:56:46,960 --> 01:56:49,920 Speaker 1: and me ran out of deer tags. We started looking 1891 01:56:49,920 --> 01:56:52,440 Speaker 1: at people didn't have a tag and be like, we 1892 01:56:52,720 --> 01:56:55,560 Speaker 1: get this person licensed stuff. And this is the way 1893 01:56:55,600 --> 01:56:57,840 Speaker 1: you can do it. If you had a movie that 1894 01:56:57,920 --> 01:57:01,000 Speaker 1: it never hunted before, just take them down and get it. 1895 01:57:01,080 --> 01:57:03,560 Speaker 1: And they've got to be accompanied by a license hunter. 1896 01:57:04,560 --> 01:57:06,520 Speaker 1: But it's neat. And you can take kids as young 1897 01:57:06,560 --> 01:57:09,640 Speaker 1: as eight that haven't had a chance to do hunter ed. 1898 01:57:09,800 --> 01:57:12,880 Speaker 1: If you're a parent or a guardian or whatever is 1899 01:57:12,920 --> 01:57:14,920 Speaker 1: that word is an idhole, kid can hunt, hunt deer 1900 01:57:15,000 --> 01:57:17,960 Speaker 1: or whatever. Eight years of age, they can hunt uh, 1901 01:57:18,120 --> 01:57:21,440 Speaker 1: small game and birds they can't hunt there until they're 1902 01:57:21,480 --> 01:57:26,200 Speaker 1: ten break off. That's what That's what I thought. Yeah, 1903 01:57:26,200 --> 01:57:28,000 Speaker 1: and you know you just broke your silence, But what 1904 01:57:28,040 --> 01:57:30,960 Speaker 1: else is on your mind? Man? Kind of on the 1905 01:57:31,000 --> 01:57:37,000 Speaker 1: opportunity um theme, Idaho does trophy species where you can 1906 01:57:37,040 --> 01:57:40,200 Speaker 1: only apply for one of the there's three, right you 1907 01:57:40,200 --> 01:57:43,880 Speaker 1: guys to go sheep and moves. Were you around when 1908 01:57:43,920 --> 01:57:47,880 Speaker 1: that was put the place? That system? And then just 1909 01:57:48,040 --> 01:57:49,720 Speaker 1: what are your general thoughts on it? Because that we 1910 01:57:49,800 --> 01:57:51,840 Speaker 1: really like it. I mean, I like the way that 1911 01:57:51,800 --> 01:57:53,680 Speaker 1: it's set up that you guys don't do the bonus 1912 01:57:53,720 --> 01:57:55,920 Speaker 1: points and their preference points and all that to deal 1913 01:57:55,960 --> 01:57:59,920 Speaker 1: with that big mess um. And then they put the 1914 01:58:00,000 --> 01:58:03,000 Speaker 1: ones in lifetime back and the ones in lifetime that's correct. 1915 01:58:03,360 --> 01:58:05,680 Speaker 1: We no longer call them trophy species. There once in 1916 01:58:05,720 --> 01:58:09,040 Speaker 1: a lifetime species again, getting at that perception, I mean, 1917 01:58:09,160 --> 01:58:12,880 Speaker 1: you can really never draw it again, not not for 1918 01:58:13,120 --> 01:58:16,840 Speaker 1: a once in a lifetime. So example of that and 1919 01:58:16,880 --> 01:58:19,520 Speaker 1: the answer is, yeah, I was around, and our commission 1920 01:58:20,040 --> 01:58:24,560 Speaker 1: has the authority to do bonus points. They they look 1921 01:58:24,640 --> 01:58:28,240 Speaker 1: at it about every five to six years. It comes 1922 01:58:28,280 --> 01:58:33,600 Speaker 1: back up, uh, and every time we provide them the 1923 01:58:34,480 --> 01:58:37,760 Speaker 1: information about what it means they always have backed away 1924 01:58:37,760 --> 01:58:40,240 Speaker 1: from it in Idaho. But you make a lot of 1925 01:58:40,240 --> 01:58:43,520 Speaker 1: money doing both points. From a financial standpoint, I will 1926 01:58:43,560 --> 01:58:46,200 Speaker 1: tell you the last time this came up about seven 1927 01:58:46,240 --> 01:58:49,480 Speaker 1: years ago, when we were tanking financially. It was looking 1928 01:58:49,480 --> 01:58:51,600 Speaker 1: pretty darn good to me as a director trying to 1929 01:58:51,640 --> 01:58:54,080 Speaker 1: figure out how to keep from getting deeper into the whole. 1930 01:58:54,680 --> 01:58:57,520 Speaker 1: But it is a pyramid scheme from a sportsman standpoint, 1931 01:58:57,520 --> 01:59:00,200 Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you, depending on which method is, 1932 01:59:00,200 --> 01:59:04,360 Speaker 1: there's so many different ways to do it. But if 1933 01:59:04,400 --> 01:59:10,080 Speaker 1: you keep getting the opportunity to use your points, if 1934 01:59:10,120 --> 01:59:13,040 Speaker 1: it goes up sequentially every year because more people are 1935 01:59:13,040 --> 01:59:16,200 Speaker 1: getting into it, you've created a pyramid scheme that those 1936 01:59:16,240 --> 01:59:19,520 Speaker 1: who get in first or near the bottom are okay, 1937 01:59:19,640 --> 01:59:22,240 Speaker 1: But those who come into the bottom may have four 1938 01:59:22,360 --> 01:59:24,800 Speaker 1: or five six years before they even get to that point. 1939 01:59:25,080 --> 01:59:27,880 Speaker 1: And depending on how many jam into it, it may 1940 01:59:27,920 --> 01:59:30,680 Speaker 1: not get there for some species. And that's what we 1941 01:59:30,920 --> 01:59:35,000 Speaker 1: looked at is for very hard to draw species big 1942 01:59:35,040 --> 01:59:39,040 Speaker 1: horn sheep, mountain goat, uh, you may not get there 1943 01:59:39,080 --> 01:59:42,560 Speaker 1: even with bonus points, for you know, many bonus points. 1944 01:59:42,560 --> 01:59:44,720 Speaker 1: I'm going into the montet, the big horn sheep, draw 1945 01:59:44,920 --> 01:59:48,160 Speaker 1: this year because they square him here. Not enough. I'm 1946 01:59:48,200 --> 01:59:51,920 Speaker 1: going in with three pints and so lifetimes where the 1947 01:59:51,960 --> 01:59:55,840 Speaker 1: bonus points that still run into sub chance drawn. This heck, 1948 01:59:56,160 --> 01:59:58,840 Speaker 1: and that's what you get into, is the squaring thing. 1949 01:59:58,960 --> 02:00:02,120 Speaker 1: The other methods of trying to make sure everybody in 1950 02:00:02,160 --> 02:00:07,760 Speaker 1: there eventually gets one UM. But the commission has chosen 1951 02:00:08,000 --> 02:00:11,040 Speaker 1: our commission, and this has gone back as far as 1952 02:00:12,480 --> 02:00:15,200 Speaker 1: years ago when it first came up. I remember I 1953 02:00:15,280 --> 02:00:17,040 Speaker 1: was a fisheries guy at the time when I heard 1954 02:00:17,080 --> 02:00:22,120 Speaker 1: the first discussion, and we've continue to give that presentation 1955 02:00:22,200 --> 02:00:24,720 Speaker 1: over the years to new commissions as they come on. 1956 02:00:25,320 --> 02:00:28,720 Speaker 1: And that presentation is, by the way, online on our website, 1957 02:00:28,760 --> 02:00:30,840 Speaker 1: so every want to look at it. It has some 1958 02:00:30,920 --> 02:00:34,200 Speaker 1: gaming stuff in there that helps you understand how the 1959 02:00:34,280 --> 02:00:38,160 Speaker 1: various techniques work and what the end result is. It 1960 02:00:38,240 --> 02:00:44,200 Speaker 1: does work okay for moderate level UH controlled hunts, ones 1961 02:00:44,320 --> 02:00:48,960 Speaker 1: that have under twenty to one odds UM and if 1962 02:00:49,000 --> 02:00:50,800 Speaker 1: it's less than five to one odds, you don't need 1963 02:00:50,800 --> 02:00:52,680 Speaker 1: it anyway, you're gonna get one in a couple of 1964 02:00:52,800 --> 02:00:56,200 Speaker 1: years without that. But in that intermediate range it works 1965 02:00:56,200 --> 02:00:58,760 Speaker 1: really good to guarantee if you'll stay in there for 1966 02:00:58,800 --> 02:01:01,880 Speaker 1: three to five years, you'll get tech on the higher 1967 02:01:01,880 --> 02:01:05,120 Speaker 1: than twenty two one, it falls apart, and that's part 1968 02:01:05,120 --> 02:01:07,160 Speaker 1: of the problem is where do you use it and 1969 02:01:07,200 --> 02:01:11,240 Speaker 1: how do you apply it relative to that. So our 1970 02:01:11,240 --> 02:01:13,920 Speaker 1: commission has just chosen to stay away from it, but 1971 02:01:13,960 --> 02:01:18,080 Speaker 1: there's no guarantee they'll stay like that whatsoever. That could 1972 02:01:18,160 --> 02:01:24,280 Speaker 1: change overall or the constituents, it's a split. We have 1973 02:01:25,200 --> 02:01:28,520 Speaker 1: what I would consider a mobile group of hunters that 1974 02:01:28,560 --> 02:01:32,880 Speaker 1: moves around multiple states and hunts. We have a lot 1975 02:01:32,920 --> 02:01:36,360 Speaker 1: of our majority of our hunters just hunting Idaho. The 1976 02:01:36,400 --> 02:01:39,760 Speaker 1: folks who move around to other states like points because 1977 02:01:39,800 --> 02:01:41,720 Speaker 1: they can pile them up in all the different states, 1978 02:01:41,720 --> 02:01:44,440 Speaker 1: and they spend a lot of money accumulating that, buying 1979 02:01:44,520 --> 02:01:47,120 Speaker 1: tags and what have you, so they can accumulate that. 1980 02:01:47,320 --> 02:01:52,240 Speaker 1: They seem to like that because they've covered their board. Uh, 1981 02:01:52,600 --> 02:01:58,160 Speaker 1: the residents don't necessarily, they're they're more place oriented with 1982 02:01:58,240 --> 02:01:59,920 Speaker 1: the way they do things, and they just want to know, 1983 02:02:00,000 --> 02:02:02,760 Speaker 1: oh that they've got an equal chance with everybody else, 1984 02:02:02,800 --> 02:02:06,040 Speaker 1: and that's their kid or grandkid has that equal chance 1985 02:02:06,920 --> 02:02:10,560 Speaker 1: like everybody else. So yeah, and then back to the 1986 02:02:10,560 --> 02:02:13,760 Speaker 1: once in a lifetime, I just killed a moose last 1987 02:02:13,840 --> 02:02:17,000 Speaker 1: year my a nice bowl on the south fork of 1988 02:02:17,040 --> 02:02:21,000 Speaker 1: the Snake. I a tag after seven years. No, it 1989 02:02:21,040 --> 02:02:27,440 Speaker 1: took me seven years retirement. Yeah right, it doesn't work 1990 02:02:27,480 --> 02:02:30,960 Speaker 1: that way, unfortunately. But the seven years and you drew. 1991 02:02:31,240 --> 02:02:33,600 Speaker 1: I drew one killed a nice bowl last year. I'm done. 1992 02:02:34,040 --> 02:02:36,520 Speaker 1: Now I can put in for a cow tag if 1993 02:02:36,560 --> 02:02:39,040 Speaker 1: we've got a population and is growing too fast and 1994 02:02:39,120 --> 02:02:41,919 Speaker 1: I want to take some cows out. That's not limited, 1995 02:02:42,800 --> 02:02:47,240 Speaker 1: but I'm done on moose in Idaho. We just had 1996 02:02:47,240 --> 02:02:50,720 Speaker 1: a friend who drew. I supposed to be what Friday, 1997 02:02:50,840 --> 02:02:54,400 Speaker 1: thirties right, yeah, i'd say early and to be done. 1998 02:02:54,600 --> 02:02:59,600 Speaker 1: You're just done. Yeah. So bighorn sheep, we have two species, 1999 02:02:59,600 --> 02:03:01,680 Speaker 1: so you can get one for each, the desert Big 2000 02:03:01,680 --> 02:03:04,680 Speaker 1: Horn and the rocky mountainto Big Horn, so you can 2001 02:03:05,000 --> 02:03:08,840 Speaker 1: have two opportunities there, but mountain goat one and you're done. 2002 02:03:09,040 --> 02:03:12,120 Speaker 1: You know, it's pretty terrible in this state. They made 2003 02:03:12,120 --> 02:03:15,120 Speaker 1: it that you can uh, you can buy bonus points, 2004 02:03:15,120 --> 02:03:16,840 Speaker 1: not whether you're in the drawer or not. So even 2005 02:03:16,840 --> 02:03:19,800 Speaker 1: though my kids aren't old enough to actually hunt, I 2006 02:03:19,840 --> 02:03:21,760 Speaker 1: can get I got them a little, I got them 2007 02:03:21,760 --> 02:03:25,320 Speaker 1: all numbers. They can start buying. They can take their 2008 02:03:25,320 --> 02:03:28,480 Speaker 1: allowance or their dad is do it for him and 2009 02:03:28,560 --> 02:03:31,920 Speaker 1: buy them bonus points someone they're like twenty, my little 2010 02:03:31,960 --> 02:03:36,320 Speaker 1: kid could have seventeen bonus points. That's horrible. I'm taking 2011 02:03:36,360 --> 02:03:40,000 Speaker 1: advantage of it because it's there, but it's horrible. It's 2012 02:03:40,000 --> 02:03:44,480 Speaker 1: so guilty doing it. It's what just games the system 2013 02:03:44,520 --> 02:03:48,360 Speaker 1: and blows it up because they shouldn't let they shouldn't 2014 02:03:48,440 --> 02:03:50,840 Speaker 1: let people let me do stuff like that. And you 2015 02:03:50,880 --> 02:03:52,640 Speaker 1: know you're part of the problem. You're gonna go ahead 2016 02:03:52,640 --> 02:03:55,000 Speaker 1: and do it anyway, you know, in this state, like 2017 02:03:55,160 --> 02:03:58,680 Speaker 1: they assigned so when you get a L that there's 2018 02:03:58,720 --> 02:04:02,880 Speaker 1: like a customer none and your customer number is your 2019 02:04:02,920 --> 02:04:05,560 Speaker 1: birthday and then the number after this is how many 2020 02:04:05,600 --> 02:04:09,440 Speaker 1: people with your birthday have it? So meaning like when 2021 02:04:09,440 --> 02:04:12,120 Speaker 1: they when the LS system came in, my LS numbers 2022 02:04:12,200 --> 02:04:13,680 Speaker 1: number three. I mean I was the third guy with 2023 02:04:13,720 --> 02:04:16,480 Speaker 1: my birthday to get to apply for a number. Now 2024 02:04:16,520 --> 02:04:19,400 Speaker 1: they're as signing numbers that are up in the hundreds, right, 2025 02:04:20,160 --> 02:04:22,840 Speaker 1: But when my little kids who are three, five and eight, 2026 02:04:23,520 --> 02:04:25,320 Speaker 1: I went down to get them a l S numbers 2027 02:04:25,320 --> 02:04:28,640 Speaker 1: and they're all number one, Like no one with those. 2028 02:04:29,040 --> 02:04:30,720 Speaker 1: I know I'm ahead of the game because no one 2029 02:04:30,760 --> 02:04:33,360 Speaker 1: with that birthday has gone and done it yet, so 2030 02:04:33,400 --> 02:04:36,360 Speaker 1: they're gonna kill it. I just can't decide how far 2031 02:04:36,360 --> 02:04:38,080 Speaker 1: I'm gonna run with this because I do feel guilty 2032 02:04:38,080 --> 02:04:39,880 Speaker 1: about it. I almost might not even not do it. 2033 02:04:40,000 --> 02:04:42,920 Speaker 1: Came aside, well, you'll get like me at some saying 2034 02:04:43,000 --> 02:04:47,800 Speaker 1: you'll have to do that with your grandchildren. Get expensive. Right, 2035 02:04:48,960 --> 02:04:52,760 Speaker 1: there's a multiplication one on the follow up question when 2036 02:04:52,800 --> 02:04:56,080 Speaker 1: you're um, when the economy tank and you're trying to 2037 02:04:56,080 --> 02:04:58,760 Speaker 1: figure out a way to get some more money. Did 2038 02:04:58,880 --> 02:05:02,080 Speaker 1: dedicated sales set ever come up? Because there's some couple 2039 02:05:02,120 --> 02:05:05,480 Speaker 1: of stays have done very well with that. We've looked 2040 02:05:05,480 --> 02:05:08,880 Speaker 1: at it. UM oh gosh. Five years ago, we did 2041 02:05:08,960 --> 02:05:12,080 Speaker 1: a thing called the Wildlife Summit, and it was trying 2042 02:05:12,080 --> 02:05:15,400 Speaker 1: to bring all folks together to talk about wildlife on 2043 02:05:15,400 --> 02:05:20,120 Speaker 1: a statewide basis. And UM an outcome of that was 2044 02:05:20,320 --> 02:05:23,880 Speaker 1: trying to build understanding of the needs of all wildlife 2045 02:05:23,880 --> 02:05:28,720 Speaker 1: and that we weren't able to generate enough revenue UH 2046 02:05:28,760 --> 02:05:31,840 Speaker 1: to take care of the needs of the of non 2047 02:05:31,920 --> 02:05:37,400 Speaker 1: game and other wildlife that was out there. UM a 2048 02:05:38,240 --> 02:05:42,320 Speaker 1: what I call a loose coffee clatch of conservation groups. 2049 02:05:43,360 --> 02:05:48,000 Speaker 1: After that was done, we did a survey of Idaho 2050 02:05:48,080 --> 02:05:51,120 Speaker 1: ones to see whether or not they would support an 2051 02:05:51,120 --> 02:05:55,360 Speaker 1: initiative that would either dedicate a portion of the sales 2052 02:05:55,440 --> 02:06:02,280 Speaker 1: tax or support an increase. The the increase was less 2053 02:06:02,280 --> 02:06:06,000 Speaker 1: than people just weren't willing to do that. It was 2054 02:06:06,240 --> 02:06:10,760 Speaker 1: slightly over of the folks were willing to support a 2055 02:06:10,760 --> 02:06:16,280 Speaker 1: dedicated portion of the existing sales tax. Okay, So the 2056 02:06:17,800 --> 02:06:21,680 Speaker 1: folks that know the politics of initiatives and everything said 2057 02:06:21,760 --> 02:06:24,560 Speaker 1: that given where we were at in the political cycle 2058 02:06:24,640 --> 02:06:30,680 Speaker 1: with elections and everything else, that that was not Probably 2059 02:06:31,320 --> 02:06:33,879 Speaker 1: they could get the signatures to get it on the ballot, 2060 02:06:33,880 --> 02:06:37,200 Speaker 1: but they weren't sure whether it would make it. And 2061 02:06:37,400 --> 02:06:42,680 Speaker 1: it depends on whether or not you have an entity 2062 02:06:42,760 --> 02:06:45,240 Speaker 1: that's well funded that will oppose it. If you don't 2063 02:06:45,280 --> 02:06:48,600 Speaker 1: have any well funded opposition, you can run these things through. 2064 02:06:49,160 --> 02:06:52,880 Speaker 1: But because we're getting at sales tax, whether it's an 2065 02:06:52,960 --> 02:06:56,560 Speaker 1: increase or a piece of the existing, opposition was going 2066 02:06:56,600 --> 02:07:01,640 Speaker 1: to be huge, and so that particular loose coffee clatch 2067 02:07:01,680 --> 02:07:05,040 Speaker 1: of folks backed away from that at this point in 2068 02:07:05,080 --> 02:07:07,440 Speaker 1: time for the state of Idaho. The beautiful people in 2069 02:07:07,520 --> 02:07:10,440 Speaker 1: Missouri pulled it off. They did, and being a Missourian 2070 02:07:10,560 --> 02:07:13,320 Speaker 1: I was in college during the time that that stuff 2071 02:07:13,400 --> 02:07:16,520 Speaker 1: was going forward, and it took them twelve years of 2072 02:07:16,600 --> 02:07:24,560 Speaker 1: trying different ways. They tell right, because when it passed, 2073 02:07:24,600 --> 02:07:27,480 Speaker 1: it passed with I mean not quite unanimous, but but 2074 02:07:27,560 --> 02:07:31,480 Speaker 1: it was a high support and and it did it. 2075 02:07:32,000 --> 02:07:34,200 Speaker 1: They went with a pop tax and a beer tax 2076 02:07:34,240 --> 02:07:36,680 Speaker 1: and failed on that. They tried all kinds of things 2077 02:07:36,720 --> 02:07:39,040 Speaker 1: before they came up with the one eighth of one 2078 02:07:40,240 --> 02:07:43,960 Speaker 1: sales tax increase, which has been the gold standard. UM 2079 02:07:44,120 --> 02:07:47,040 Speaker 1: Florida does a real estate transfer tax. Every time a 2080 02:07:47,040 --> 02:07:50,240 Speaker 1: piece of real estate sells. There's a piece of that fee. 2081 02:07:50,440 --> 02:07:51,960 Speaker 1: You know, all those fees you pay when you buy 2082 02:07:51,960 --> 02:07:53,680 Speaker 1: a piece of property. Well there's a little piece of 2083 02:07:53,720 --> 02:07:55,760 Speaker 1: that in there now that goes to the Wildlife Fund, 2084 02:07:56,360 --> 02:07:59,360 Speaker 1: and that's working for them down there. It went down 2085 02:07:59,400 --> 02:08:03,680 Speaker 1: when things tanked, but it went back up. UM Arkansas 2086 02:08:03,720 --> 02:08:07,400 Speaker 1: and Iowa went with a similar sales tax system as 2087 02:08:07,480 --> 02:08:12,200 Speaker 1: Missouri and uh. Arkansas got there through. Iolway got there through, 2088 02:08:12,280 --> 02:08:15,040 Speaker 1: but they didn't fund it. So you know, the mechanisms 2089 02:08:15,080 --> 02:08:17,880 Speaker 1: are but they didn't initiate it. Sins most everybody that dips, 2090 02:08:17,960 --> 02:08:21,840 Speaker 1: like the hunting fish, they just have a dip tip. 2091 02:08:22,680 --> 02:08:25,160 Speaker 1: I'm with you on that. So there is a solution, 2092 02:08:25,200 --> 02:08:27,640 Speaker 1: though I don't want to leave this before I speak 2093 02:08:27,680 --> 02:08:31,600 Speaker 1: to a solution that's live in Congress right now, and 2094 02:08:31,640 --> 02:08:36,080 Speaker 1: it's called restoring America's Wildlife fact and it's following it 2095 02:08:36,120 --> 02:08:41,800 Speaker 1: would it would take the royalties from oil and gas 2096 02:08:42,000 --> 02:08:47,080 Speaker 1: and mining on shore offshore. It's all of that royalties, 2097 02:08:47,160 --> 02:08:51,760 Speaker 1: and and that royalty package is around twelve fourteen billion 2098 02:08:51,800 --> 02:08:56,040 Speaker 1: a year right now. UM. It would dedicate one point 2099 02:08:56,080 --> 02:09:01,200 Speaker 1: three billion of that into the Pittman Robertson Fund, a 2100 02:09:01,280 --> 02:09:03,960 Speaker 1: subset of it which double the food. It would double 2101 02:09:04,000 --> 02:09:08,480 Speaker 1: the fund, and it would then that money would come 2102 02:09:08,480 --> 02:09:10,400 Speaker 1: back to the states based on the size of the 2103 02:09:10,440 --> 02:09:12,800 Speaker 1: state and the population, very similar to the way we 2104 02:09:12,880 --> 02:09:15,720 Speaker 1: do pr for hunting, which is a number of hunting 2105 02:09:15,720 --> 02:09:19,280 Speaker 1: licenses and the size of the state comes back to 2106 02:09:19,320 --> 02:09:23,640 Speaker 1: the state to manage a very familiar mechanism for the 2107 02:09:23,680 --> 02:09:27,160 Speaker 1: states to get financial resources to manage all wildlife. That's 2108 02:09:27,160 --> 02:09:29,720 Speaker 1: a re allocation. Isn't that a new tax. This is 2109 02:09:29,720 --> 02:09:32,880 Speaker 1: a re allocation of of a fund. It is the 2110 02:09:32,920 --> 02:09:36,440 Speaker 1: fund that the Land of Water Conservation Fund taps into 2111 02:09:36,600 --> 02:09:41,720 Speaker 1: right now. Uh. And so there is legislation our own 2112 02:09:41,880 --> 02:09:44,400 Speaker 1: Senator Rish in the state of Idaho is sponsoring it 2113 02:09:44,480 --> 02:09:47,440 Speaker 1: on the Senate side. It's got over a hundred co 2114 02:09:47,560 --> 02:09:51,920 Speaker 1: sponsors on the House side right now support it does. 2115 02:09:52,160 --> 02:09:54,440 Speaker 1: The House support is in a hundred and five and 2116 02:09:54,440 --> 02:09:59,440 Speaker 1: it's split almost equally down the middle. The co sponsorship 2117 02:09:59,480 --> 02:10:01,600 Speaker 1: on the Senate, it I'm not as sure of, but 2118 02:10:01,720 --> 02:10:05,520 Speaker 1: the co sponsors before I'm familiar with or bipartisan, so 2119 02:10:05,640 --> 02:10:08,040 Speaker 1: and the Senate works different than the House on that 2120 02:10:08,040 --> 02:10:15,080 Speaker 1: stuff anyway. UM, So we're hoping that they'll get to 2121 02:10:15,200 --> 02:10:18,160 Speaker 1: get a major hearing on this. We've had some smaller hearings, 2122 02:10:19,080 --> 02:10:23,400 Speaker 1: but it's moving forward, you know. It's it was classified 2123 02:10:23,400 --> 02:10:26,360 Speaker 1: as a moon shot to get it through this Congress 2124 02:10:26,400 --> 02:10:29,280 Speaker 1: with between now and the time they adjourn in December, 2125 02:10:29,560 --> 02:10:32,280 Speaker 1: but it's still live and Senator Rish was trying to 2126 02:10:32,320 --> 02:10:35,720 Speaker 1: get a hearing going on it. Um. This would be huge, 2127 02:10:36,200 --> 02:10:40,680 Speaker 1: UH for a state like Idaho. If we got our allocation, 2128 02:10:41,800 --> 02:10:44,480 Speaker 1: it would be on the order of fifteen to seventeen 2129 02:10:44,480 --> 02:10:48,440 Speaker 1: million dollars annually. So you know, take that our total 2130 02:10:48,520 --> 02:10:52,160 Speaker 1: t d j p R allocation is about that much. 2131 02:10:52,560 --> 02:10:57,520 Speaker 1: So it puts the the UH Wildlife Diversity Non Game 2132 02:10:57,640 --> 02:11:01,320 Speaker 1: Program on the same footing and allows us to have 2133 02:11:01,480 --> 02:11:06,200 Speaker 1: the resources to manage all wildlife populations. The fear A 2134 02:11:06,240 --> 02:11:10,240 Speaker 1: lot of hunters and anglers fear loss of control of 2135 02:11:10,280 --> 02:11:15,000 Speaker 1: their commissions and departments through this, and and it's not 2136 02:11:15,240 --> 02:11:18,360 Speaker 1: an illegitimate fear. But I go back to my home 2137 02:11:18,400 --> 02:11:21,920 Speaker 1: state of Missouri and see what happened there. I mean, 2138 02:11:22,080 --> 02:11:25,760 Speaker 1: they pumped a hundred and ten million dollars a year 2139 02:11:26,320 --> 02:11:29,920 Speaker 1: into their budget. It's the majority of their budget. They 2140 02:11:29,960 --> 02:11:33,400 Speaker 1: got about another sixty million I think in license sales 2141 02:11:33,760 --> 02:11:36,800 Speaker 1: and then other money in there. There about twice as 2142 02:11:36,840 --> 02:11:40,840 Speaker 1: big budget wise as the state of Idaho with with 2143 02:11:40,880 --> 02:11:45,800 Speaker 1: what they've got back there. But hunting and fishing is 2144 02:11:46,160 --> 02:11:50,160 Speaker 1: better and stronger there now as a result of having 2145 02:11:50,840 --> 02:11:57,120 Speaker 1: that collaborative of all users getting things done. And so 2146 02:11:57,280 --> 02:12:00,360 Speaker 1: when you look at the case histories of state that 2147 02:12:00,480 --> 02:12:03,720 Speaker 1: have had this additional money, Florida being the other example, 2148 02:12:04,360 --> 02:12:09,400 Speaker 1: hunting and fishing there is actually booming with those additional resources. 2149 02:12:10,280 --> 02:12:13,920 Speaker 1: It will mean some changes in in how we go 2150 02:12:14,000 --> 02:12:17,200 Speaker 1: about interacting with the public on allocation of budget. But 2151 02:12:17,320 --> 02:12:19,760 Speaker 1: certainly I don't think it's to be feared, it's to 2152 02:12:19,840 --> 02:12:22,200 Speaker 1: be managed. Yeah, that that'd be my perspective on it. 2153 02:12:22,280 --> 02:12:25,360 Speaker 1: I understand how I understand the viewpoint of people being 2154 02:12:25,440 --> 02:12:28,720 Speaker 1: leary about new voices sitting around the table, new voices 2155 02:12:28,760 --> 02:12:33,000 Speaker 1: at the table. Um, I get that. I still think that. Uh. 2156 02:12:33,120 --> 02:12:36,640 Speaker 1: I still think it's better to go with the money 2157 02:12:36,880 --> 02:12:40,640 Speaker 1: and and you know, play the game however you need 2158 02:12:40,680 --> 02:12:42,280 Speaker 1: to play it, but put to go with the extra 2159 02:12:42,320 --> 02:12:44,640 Speaker 1: funding and and then sort the rest out after the 2160 02:12:44,640 --> 02:12:46,400 Speaker 1: factor at least go into it with the right kind 2161 02:12:46,400 --> 02:12:49,560 Speaker 1: of mind frame and well our track record where we 2162 02:12:49,600 --> 02:12:54,080 Speaker 1: have financial resources and focus. If there's a sensitive species 2163 02:12:54,120 --> 02:12:56,760 Speaker 1: out there, I can keep them off the list or 2164 02:12:56,800 --> 02:12:59,120 Speaker 1: I can get him off the list again with that 2165 02:12:59,200 --> 02:13:01,320 Speaker 1: kind of financial resources. I know we can do it 2166 02:13:01,480 --> 02:13:05,160 Speaker 1: because we've done it and um, and I'm I would 2167 02:13:05,160 --> 02:13:10,120 Speaker 1: be anxious to to see that pulled off. Um, we'll 2168 02:13:10,120 --> 02:13:12,960 Speaker 1: see again. It's a moon shot, but it's live and 2169 02:13:13,000 --> 02:13:16,000 Speaker 1: it's moving forward. We've been two years moving this forward. 2170 02:13:16,440 --> 02:13:18,520 Speaker 1: The group that put it together was a group called 2171 02:13:18,560 --> 02:13:23,360 Speaker 1: the Blue Ribbon Panel, and uh, Johnny Morris from bass 2172 02:13:23,400 --> 02:13:28,080 Speaker 1: Pro now Cabella's Too, UM was the co chair along 2173 02:13:28,120 --> 02:13:31,080 Speaker 1: with governor a former governor of Freeden Fall from Wyoming, 2174 02:13:31,240 --> 02:13:37,720 Speaker 1: and most everybody on that panel were NGOs and private business. 2175 02:13:38,080 --> 02:13:40,200 Speaker 1: It wasn't a bunch of government folks. They're the ones 2176 02:13:40,240 --> 02:13:43,160 Speaker 1: that looked at this and said yeah, and then that 2177 02:13:43,320 --> 02:13:46,000 Speaker 1: their first recommendation was this one point three billion. That's 2178 02:13:46,000 --> 02:13:50,080 Speaker 1: where we focused. The second one is increasing our relevancy 2179 02:13:50,160 --> 02:13:54,200 Speaker 1: to all people about wildlife management. Money goes a long 2180 02:13:54,240 --> 02:13:57,840 Speaker 1: ways to helping that, but certainly, how do we as 2181 02:13:58,040 --> 02:14:01,600 Speaker 1: hunters and anglers show the use of hunting, fishing, and 2182 02:14:01,640 --> 02:14:06,200 Speaker 1: trapping for wildlife management is relevant to everybody? And I 2183 02:14:06,240 --> 02:14:09,560 Speaker 1: think that's a big part of of the challenge that 2184 02:14:09,640 --> 02:14:12,280 Speaker 1: we have in the future as hunters and anglers is 2185 02:14:12,320 --> 02:14:16,240 Speaker 1: to maintain relevancy. We've got the support. We've got that 2186 02:14:16,400 --> 02:14:20,400 Speaker 1: mid seventies support for traditional hunting, even higher for fishing. 2187 02:14:20,880 --> 02:14:22,920 Speaker 1: We just got to hang onto it, and we do 2188 02:14:22,960 --> 02:14:26,440 Speaker 1: it by doing what we know as hunters and anglers 2189 02:14:26,480 --> 02:14:29,880 Speaker 1: we are, and that's conservationists first, and we lead the 2190 02:14:29,880 --> 02:14:33,120 Speaker 1: way with our own actions and activities to get this 2191 02:14:33,120 --> 02:14:37,839 Speaker 1: stuff done. Good Your final thoughts, Chris Man, No virgils 2192 02:14:37,880 --> 02:14:44,240 Speaker 1: just schooling me. All the fantastic Virgil for Department of 2193 02:14:44,280 --> 02:14:52,440 Speaker 1: Interior or something right that means d C. It's I've 2194 02:14:52,480 --> 02:14:54,480 Speaker 1: I've learned a ton of one of the last thing 2195 02:14:54,560 --> 02:14:58,240 Speaker 1: I was gonna ask you maybe was done so your 2196 02:14:58,680 --> 02:15:04,800 Speaker 1: access yes program. Yes, is Idaho Fishing Game the only 2197 02:15:04,920 --> 02:15:12,400 Speaker 1: state entity in charge of procuring more public access. We 2198 02:15:12,520 --> 02:15:18,120 Speaker 1: have the Idaho Department of Parks and Recreation that has 2199 02:15:18,240 --> 02:15:24,120 Speaker 1: responsibility for trail access for both motorized and foot travel, 2200 02:15:25,160 --> 02:15:29,360 Speaker 1: and we work very closely with them. Uh. They also 2201 02:15:29,440 --> 02:15:32,720 Speaker 1: have responsibility for some voating access. We have our own 2202 02:15:32,760 --> 02:15:37,520 Speaker 1: voting access program, they have their's counties have some responsibility 2203 02:15:37,560 --> 02:15:41,000 Speaker 1: because they get a piece of the DJ Daniel Johnson funds. 2204 02:15:42,120 --> 02:15:52,760 Speaker 1: But as far as um land based hunting and fishing 2205 02:15:53,520 --> 02:15:58,040 Speaker 1: and trapping were it, Uh. The others are directed at 2206 02:15:58,080 --> 02:16:04,880 Speaker 1: more generalized recreation or motorized or powerboat recreation in that 2207 02:16:05,000 --> 02:16:08,240 Speaker 1: particular case, and compared to what we're putting on the 2208 02:16:08,240 --> 02:16:12,760 Speaker 1: table financially, it's a very small piece of that. It 2209 02:16:12,880 --> 02:16:16,280 Speaker 1: seems like in Idaho and Montana as well. The public 2210 02:16:18,040 --> 02:16:21,600 Speaker 1: the economy benefits so much from our public land that 2211 02:16:22,680 --> 02:16:26,080 Speaker 1: you know, more entities should be putting chips on the 2212 02:16:26,120 --> 02:16:28,879 Speaker 1: table to procure it. I think some of the NGOs 2213 02:16:28,880 --> 02:16:33,960 Speaker 1: are huge players there, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. Uh. They 2214 02:16:34,000 --> 02:16:38,160 Speaker 1: do and and they they've been very uh cooperative, collaborative. 2215 02:16:38,560 --> 02:16:40,560 Speaker 1: They've got money to bring to the table that they'll 2216 02:16:40,600 --> 02:16:45,039 Speaker 1: match with anything you've got. And the Mule Dealer Foundation 2217 02:16:45,240 --> 02:16:49,000 Speaker 1: to a lesser degree is part of that. Uh. Those 2218 02:16:49,040 --> 02:16:53,680 Speaker 1: are the two primary players. Trout Unlimited does some for 2219 02:16:53,800 --> 02:16:59,280 Speaker 1: stream access, for flying, for fishing um, and we've got 2220 02:17:00,120 --> 02:17:05,800 Speaker 1: some some other players in there. But I don't want 2221 02:17:05,840 --> 02:17:07,760 Speaker 1: to dismiss some of those n g O s that 2222 02:17:07,800 --> 02:17:12,440 Speaker 1: have been very uh focused and effective, particularly Rocky Mountain 2223 02:17:12,480 --> 02:17:15,800 Speaker 1: Elk with their initiative to get access through private land 2224 02:17:15,840 --> 02:17:19,840 Speaker 1: to public land. They've been able to really do some 2225 02:17:19,879 --> 02:17:25,560 Speaker 1: good things. Sir. Awesome, thank you, thank you man. We 2226 02:17:25,600 --> 02:17:27,600 Speaker 1: did We did a deep dive. Man, that's a lot 2227 02:17:27,600 --> 02:17:34,680 Speaker 1: of fun. I uh uh enjoy this stuff. To Dingle Johnson, yep, 2228 02:17:35,000 --> 02:17:37,480 Speaker 1: you got it all. Give me some more time. We'll 2229 02:17:37,480 --> 02:17:40,280 Speaker 1: give you more. Well, you know, I want to have 2230 02:17:40,320 --> 02:17:43,200 Speaker 1: you back how long you're you're retiring, right, I am, 2231 02:17:43,280 --> 02:17:47,920 Speaker 1: I'll be retiring in January for a big ship talking session. 2232 02:17:50,560 --> 02:17:53,080 Speaker 1: Better yet, I'll have you come over. And I don't 2233 02:17:53,080 --> 02:17:54,520 Speaker 1: know if this stuff works on the back of a 2234 02:17:54,600 --> 02:17:58,120 Speaker 1: jetboat while we're trolling for steelhead um, we can we 2235 02:17:58,160 --> 02:18:00,320 Speaker 1: can plug it all into an inverter and will make 2236 02:18:00,360 --> 02:18:02,680 Speaker 1: this stuff work, and and we can do a live 2237 02:18:02,720 --> 02:18:04,960 Speaker 1: fish and she did a live ice fishing show one time. 2238 02:18:05,080 --> 02:18:07,039 Speaker 1: I can do that too. I've got a place on 2239 02:18:07,120 --> 02:18:09,400 Speaker 1: Cascade Reservoir and we can scoot right out on the 2240 02:18:09,440 --> 02:18:13,160 Speaker 1: ice and uh catch some of those trophy perch that 2241 02:18:13,200 --> 02:18:22,520 Speaker 1: we've got there, ye yellow perch yea. Well we're pushing 2242 02:18:22,560 --> 02:18:27,879 Speaker 1: eighteen inches eighteen yeah, and uh it's it's still got 2243 02:18:28,080 --> 02:18:30,800 Speaker 1: to three year classes in there that are grown into that. 2244 02:18:30,920 --> 02:18:35,199 Speaker 1: So it's a fish you know, fish story. I gotta 2245 02:18:35,200 --> 02:18:37,760 Speaker 1: get this right. But no, they are like Wally, these 2246 02:18:37,760 --> 02:18:41,680 Speaker 1: things are huge. I mean fourteen and sixteen inch perch 2247 02:18:42,200 --> 02:18:45,320 Speaker 1: our routine up there. Yeah, you catch three of those 2248 02:18:45,360 --> 02:18:48,480 Speaker 1: and you've got dinner. That's great. Yeah, it is. It 2249 02:18:48,640 --> 02:18:51,560 Speaker 1: is great. So stay tuned and thank you good all right, 2250 02:18:52,000 --> 02:19:01,080 Speaker 1: thank you two