Speaker 1: Hi, Welcome to Sign Stuff, a production of iHeartRadio. My
Speaker 1: name is Jorge cham and you are getting sleepier and sleepier.
Speaker 1: You are going to listen to this episode all the
Speaker 1: way to the end because we are answering the question
Speaker 1: is hypnotism real? Does it really work like we see
Speaker 1: in the movies with a swinging pocket watch? And can
Speaker 1: you use it to get someone to do things without
Speaker 1: their knowledge. We're going to talk to two hypnotism experts
Speaker 1: who are going to step us through how it works
Speaker 1: and what the most common misconceptions about it are. And
Speaker 1: then in the end, you're both going to hypnotize me.
Speaker 1: So focus on my voice, let yourself go and join
Speaker 1: me as we answer the question is hypnotism real?
Speaker 2: Hey?
Speaker 1: Everyone, Okay, today's episode has a gimmick, and that is
Speaker 1: that I ask two hypnotism experts to hypnotize me. We're
Speaker 1: going to see which one was able to do it. Now.
Speaker 1: The word hypnosis comes from Hypnos, the Greek god of sleep,
Speaker 1: who in mythology is also the twin brother of death
Speaker 1: and the father of dreams. But what most people think
Speaker 1: when they hear the word hypnosis came from a German
Speaker 1: doctor named Franz Mesmer in the late seventeen hundreds. Mesmer
Speaker 1: was a bit of a cult leader who claimed he
Speaker 1: could control a cosmic energy he called animal magnetism using
Speaker 1: simple magnets. He would enthrall audiences with demonstrations of curing
Speaker 1: people from things like headaches, stomach problems, and even paralysis
Speaker 1: and seizures. If you've heard the word mesmerizing, Franz Mesmer
Speaker 1: is where it comes from. He would hold sessions where
Speaker 1: people would sit in a circle and hold bars of
Speaker 1: iron connected to a big tup of water that Mesmer
Speaker 1: claimed had this magnetic energy. Mesmer would then walk around
Speaker 1: talking to the participate, and after about an hour or so,
Speaker 1: some patients would feint, others would fall into a trance,
Speaker 1: and others would start to convolt or shake. Afterwards, the
Speaker 1: patients would claim to be cured of their ailments. Mesmer
Speaker 1: became so famous the King of France, Louis the sixteenth,
Speaker 1: hired an elite team of investigators to find out if
Speaker 1: Mesmer was real or a fraud. The people he assembled
Speaker 1: were like the avengers of signs at the time. They
Speaker 1: included Antoine de la Boissier, the father of modern chemistry,
Speaker 1: Joseph Ignaz Guillotine, who invented the guillotine, and it was
Speaker 1: led by none other than Ben Franklin, one of the
Speaker 1: founding fathers of the United States, who at the time
Speaker 1: was the US ambassador to France. The group was called
Speaker 1: and part of my French here Les Commissier Charge parla
Speaker 1: Roux de le xamin to Magnetism ANEMA, or the Royal
Speaker 1: Commission on Animal Magnetism, and they did what is considered
Speaker 1: to be the first ever controlled clinical trial. They designed
Speaker 1: this series of experiments where they would put test subjects
Speaker 1: alone in a room or behind the curtain, and then
Speaker 1: they would tell the patient they were being magnetized when
Speaker 1: really they were not, or they would have one of
Speaker 1: Mesmer's men try to magnetize the patient without telling the patient.
Speaker 1: This is what's now known as a blind study. As
Speaker 1: you might expect, Ben Franklin and the team of scientists
Speaker 1: found that there is no such thing as animal magnetism
Speaker 1: and that the effects people reported were mostly due to
Speaker 1: their imagination, the power of suggestion, and peer pressure. Okay,
Speaker 1: the first person I brought in to hypnotize me is
Speaker 1: doctor anuche Zaheti. Doctor Zaheedi is a researcher in the
Speaker 1: Department of Psychology at the University of Munster in Germany,
Speaker 1: and he has written several papers on the science of hypnosis.
Speaker 1: Before we got started, though, I was curious to know
Speaker 1: how he got interested in this subject. Here's what he said,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much for inviting me. I'm very happy
Speaker 2: to be here.
Speaker 1: You haven't hypnotized me. Now, I just want to make sure.
Speaker 2: Not yet, not yet. I'm trying, but not yet.
Speaker 1: First of all, what got you interested in the topic
Speaker 1: of hypnosis?
Speaker 2: So I was trying to find the topic from my
Speaker 2: massive thesis. At the time. I was very skeptical about hypnosis. So,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, I wanted to prove that hypnosis is not
Speaker 2: going to work. And then I participated in some course
Speaker 2: program introducing me to hypnosis, and then went and saw that,
Speaker 2: oh it might be effective. And by the end of it,
Speaker 2: I was very much actually interested in surprised by things
Speaker 2: that I just saw by the power of mind. Led
Speaker 2: just say that I was hooked.
Speaker 1: So you were a skeptic and then suddenly you believed
Speaker 1: in it. It sounds a little suspicious, sounds like maybe
Speaker 1: they hypnotized you.
Speaker 2: They definitely ritized. In that program, I started to think
Speaker 2: about hypnosis based on stuff that I saw in public
Speaker 2: media right through TV series. You will just get hypnotized.
Speaker 2: You start to disclose all the sensitive information you had
Speaker 2: ever in your life, and then by the end of it,
Speaker 2: it's going to be very dangerous for you. But as
Speaker 2: we went through the whole course, it became more clear
Speaker 2: that I just got the whole concept wrong.
Speaker 1: These days, according to doctors a heady, hypnotism is mostly
Speaker 1: seen as a form of therapy. Let's say you want
Speaker 1: to feel more confident in your life, or you want
Speaker 1: to get rid of some phobia or fear that you have,
Speaker 1: or let's say you want to lose weight or break
Speaker 1: a habit like smoking, then hypnosis might be for you.
Speaker 1: There are studies that have found that hypnotherapy can work
Speaker 1: as a way to help you change your behavior. Here's
Speaker 1: how doctors a heady defines hypnosis.
Speaker 2: At the moment hypnosis, if you want to defind, it's
Speaker 2: a procedure that two people are some experimenter, the hypnotice,
Speaker 2: the clinician, whatever you want to call. The person will
Speaker 2: give another person the participants, some suggestions and participants will
Speaker 2: just listen to these suggestions. Imagine with the hypnotics and
Speaker 2: think about these suggestions, and through this process, the participant
Speaker 2: is going to have a perception that is semi different
Speaker 2: from your normal perception. And this altered perception, altered cognition,
Speaker 2: would be very interesting for everyone. So it's an opportunity
Speaker 2: to change your frameworks in order to see things differently.
Speaker 1: We'll get to how hypnosis works a little later. But
Speaker 1: another interesting application of hypnosis is in pain management. If
Speaker 1: you have chronic pain, or if you're going to go
Speaker 1: through a painful medical procedure, it might help to get hypnotized.
Speaker 1: And that's what God. The second expert I brought in
Speaker 1: to hypnotize me, doctor Dali Jaja, interested in hypnosis. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you doctor Jajah for joining us here today. Am
Speaker 1: I hypnotized right now? Have you already hypnotized me?
Speaker 3: Everyone asked this question. Now you need to want to
Speaker 3: be hypnotized. What did to work?
Speaker 1: Can you tell us who you are and what you do?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 3: I'm a pharmacy, hypnotherapist and researcher. I have an infel
Speaker 3: in the Faculty of Medicine from the University of Queensland
Speaker 3: and especially certificate in clinical research from the University of Madman.
Speaker 3: I have around seven publications about theories of hypnosis and misconceptions.
Speaker 3: I mainly focused on medical hypnosis for pain. For example,
Speaker 3: hypnosis has a potential benefits for children's procedureal pain and distress.
Speaker 3: Also the traumas that children go through can be prevented.
Speaker 1: So what's the situation. There's a patient like a child,
Speaker 1: and they were going through some procedure and you would
Speaker 1: be there applying hypnosis to them.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So for example, with someone having you to extraction,
Speaker 3: I did hypnosis. So the session started before the procedure,
Speaker 3: and when the procedure was being performed, the patient was
Speaker 3: already in a hypnotics state, in any laxed state, imagining
Speaker 3: pleasant scenes. And then when the proceed was over, the
Speaker 3: patient didn't have to go through the trauma the fear
Speaker 3: of being ather dentist. No anesthesia was used.
Speaker 1: Wow, So hypnotism can be used to basically block out pain.
Speaker 1: I asked doctor Jajah, what are some of the other
Speaker 1: misconceptions people have about hypnotism? Now, you said there are
Speaker 1: a lot of definitions out there and a lot of
Speaker 1: misconceptions about hypnosis. What are some of the common misconceptions.
Speaker 3: A common methace hyprocess is a sleep like state, and
Speaker 3: movies you see people undergoing hypnosis as if they're sleeping
Speaker 3: or an a state of somnambilism or reduced awareness, while
Speaker 3: in fact hypnosis is distinct from sleep, as hypnotized individuals
Speaker 3: remain aware of their surroundings and they can even leave
Speaker 3: hypnosis at any time. And some misconceptions that hypnosis involves
Speaker 3: robot like automatic responding without being able to resist suggestions,
Speaker 3: while in truth, although it does involve a sense of
Speaker 3: involuntariness and a reduced sense of agency, individuals do not
Speaker 3: lose control under hypnosis, and they can resist suggestions that
Speaker 3: do not align with their inner inclination. Some people say
Speaker 3: that in hypnosis you cannot remember what occurs. Spontaneous amnisia
Speaker 3: is exceptionally rare, and hypnotized individuals can remember everything that
Speaker 3: occurs during this session. And also, hypnosis sometimes is confused
Speaker 3: with other techniques like meditation or mindfulness, but in fact
Speaker 3: hypnosis is distinct from these. If you're seeing something under hypnosis,
Speaker 3: your brain acts differently than if you're just imagining something.
Speaker 3: The visual areas would be activated as if you're really
Speaker 3: seeing the objects.
Speaker 1: So a definition of hypnosis is still something even experts
Speaker 1: disagree on. The American Psychological Association, the main body of
Speaker 1: psychologists in the United States, has redefine what hypnosis is
Speaker 1: at least three times in the last few decades. They
Speaker 1: can't seem to agree on what it is. But from
Speaker 1: our experts, this is the general picture. Hypnosis is a
Speaker 1: procedure where you sit down with a hypnotist and the
Speaker 1: hypnotism helps you enter a state of mind in which
Speaker 1: you might dissociate or tune out the rest of the
Speaker 1: world and be completely immersed, be more open to suggestions,
Speaker 1: and you might feel a loss of agency or control
Speaker 1: over your actions. Right when we come back, our two
Speaker 1: experts are you going to tell us how to get
Speaker 1: someone hypnotized, and then in the end we're going to
Speaker 1: see which one was able to hypnotize me. So don't
Speaker 1: fall into a trance. Stay with us. We'll be right
Speaker 1: back with more science stuff. Hey, welcome back. Okay, we
Speaker 1: talked a little about what hypnosis is, and now we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about how to hypnotiz someone. We're going
Speaker 1: to do it by playing your clips from the two
Speaker 1: sessions where the experts try to hypnotize me. According to them,
Speaker 1: hypnosis is a four step process. Here's how Doctors AHEADI
Speaker 1: describes the first step. Okay, so you described it as
Speaker 1: a process. What is that process.
Speaker 2: First, you are going to have a long discussion with
Speaker 2: your clinician about the hypnosis itself creating some positive expectations
Speaker 2: in you and also with U seeing your negative expectations,
Speaker 2: you expect that some fun stuff are going to happen.
Speaker 2: So you expect that your hands or arms can be moved,
Speaker 2: your sense of agency over your behavior might be changed
Speaker 2: to your movements, and these things can happen to everyone,
Speaker 2: and that's okay.
Speaker 1: So the first step in hypnotizing someone is a conversation
Speaker 1: that happens before the actual hypnosis, and this is where
Speaker 1: the hypnotism essentially primes you for what's about to happen.
Speaker 1: They make sure that you want this to work, that
Speaker 1: you have positive expectations, and they tell you that you
Speaker 1: might have some strange feet during the session, like you
Speaker 1: might feel like you're not in control of your movements
Speaker 1: and that this is normal. But most important, the pre
Speaker 1: hypnosis talk is to get you to trust the hypnotist.
Speaker 2: So the trust between two of us are going to
Speaker 2: be very important. So report is very important at any
Speaker 2: point in hypnosis, and your brain tells you that you
Speaker 2: should not trust me, the process going to stop.
Speaker 1: It sort of sounds like you're trying to pre hypnotize
Speaker 1: the person to lean into the process, not to freak out,
Speaker 1: because if I have my guard up, if I'm skeptical,
Speaker 1: if I'm afraid of what's going to happen, then it
Speaker 1: definitely won't happen exactly. The second step in hypnotizing someone
Speaker 1: is to officially start the hypnosis, and this is where
Speaker 1: that famous swinging pocket watch comes in.
Speaker 2: Then you start the next step, which is ghypnotic induction.
Speaker 2: Usually it's a ritual. You're trying through this ritual to
Speaker 2: start the initiation of the process.
Speaker 1: Some sort of signals that says, all right, the process
Speaker 1: has now officially begun exactly.
Speaker 2: For instance, they will ask you to close your eyes,
Speaker 2: and then you will think about your muscles and then
Speaker 2: you'll start to relax them one by one. Another one
Speaker 2: is eye fixation, so you would start to look at
Speaker 2: some specific place and then you try to keep your
Speaker 2: eyes open, and then at some point you have the
Speaker 2: tendency to close your eyes and you're going to get
Speaker 2: tired and the process starts.
Speaker 1: That's sort of like the one you see on TV
Speaker 1: or in movies or in old movies where they would
Speaker 1: swing a watch, oh yeah something and say you're getting sleepy.
Speaker 1: That This is kind of the where that comes from.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, the clock actually is a thing still hunting
Speaker 2: me every time. I'm just introducing how someone's governer the clock.
Speaker 2: Do you have a clock or not? Actually gets a
Speaker 2: very ineffective way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so hypnotherapists don't actually use the swing in pocket watch,
Speaker 1: but they do use other techniques to get you to
Speaker 1: relax so that your brain goes into a relaxed state,
Speaker 1: and this is where the hypnosis actually start. I'm now
Speaker 1: going to play for you the two sessions where our
Speaker 1: experts try to hypnotize me, and so your license hypnotherapist.
Speaker 2: I am actually heart to part in the therapist. I
Speaker 2: don't actually practice as a clinician. I'm very much boring scientists.
Speaker 2: But it is not going to be that much difficult.
Speaker 2: It's a very actually simple thing. So yeah, definitely it's
Speaker 2: possible to hypnotize anyone as long as they are trusting
Speaker 2: you and they are okay with a situation. Okay, that's right, perfect,
Speaker 2: So let's just do something together. Let's just start with it.
Speaker 2: Close your eyes, and then we will try to first
Speaker 2: relax your body together. Please see it comfortably on your chair.
Speaker 2: Try to imagine your body as it is, and then
Speaker 2: think about your body as a butt of water. Now
Speaker 2: it's empty, there is no water in it, and you
Speaker 2: can see through your body, so a transparent container. Now
Speaker 2: that we do want to now feel with some war
Speaker 2: warm water. It's warm, pleasant water, not too warm to
Speaker 2: make you uncomfortable, not too cold to make you uncomfortable,
Speaker 2: but warm enough to give you a pleasant sensation.
Speaker 3: Okay, can you close your eyes when you're ready. Okay,
Speaker 3: Visualize a relaxing blue light above your face, a relaxing
Speaker 3: blue light that you're inhaling, moving all the way into
Speaker 3: your shace. Chill your shace, becoming more and more relaxed,
Speaker 3: and feel all the muscles of your face relaxing with
Speaker 3: every inhalation and with every exhalation. Allow all stress, all
Speaker 3: tensions on bluckages. To live your face, and now allow
Speaker 3: the eye to move into your neck to relax your neck.
Speaker 3: So boose, that's repret that you take and feel all
Speaker 3: the blockages, all stress, all tensions needing your neck, allow
Speaker 3: the light to move into your shoulders. Relax your shoulders.
Speaker 1: So both hypnosis sessions went on like this for several minutes.
Speaker 1: They had me focus on each part of my body
Speaker 1: and relaxing them one by one. It's not too different
Speaker 1: from what you might do in a yoga or meditation class,
Speaker 1: and the idea is to get your mind to a
Speaker 1: place where it's ready to take suggestions. These suggestions are
Speaker 1: what makes hypnosis different from say, meditation or mindfulness. First,
Speaker 1: the hypnotists might start making suggestions that take you deeper
Speaker 1: and deeper into your own thoughts and imagination.
Speaker 3: Focus your imagination, your awareness, and as this light finds
Speaker 3: you with awareness that enhanced focus, all the blockages to
Speaker 3: a deep process, distractions all on pleasant thoughts, They all
Speaker 3: evaporate and you're filled with night. How can you to
Speaker 3: be ready journey into your subconscious mind? Enjoy the place,
Speaker 3: and when you're ready to meet the place, say.
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, now, taking with you all the joy, all
Speaker 4: the happiness of the safety of this place to stay
Speaker 4: with you throughout the session and beyond it.
Speaker 3: I will come from three to one when I reach one,
Speaker 3: and you can imagine yourselves on top of stairs. States
Speaker 3: that in you to the gate of your subconscious mind
Speaker 3: three to one. See the stairs and see yourself going
Speaker 3: down the stairs. With every step you count the number backward,
Speaker 3: and you go downward, closer to the gate of your
Speaker 3: subconscious mind and deeper into his process. So starting from twenty,
Speaker 3: can you count out.
Speaker 5: Lock twenty nineteen eighteen.
Speaker 3: Ohing grossure and closer to the gate of your your
Speaker 3: subconscious mind seventeen.
Speaker 1: Now when the hypnotist thinks you are fully immersed, some
Speaker 1: scientists believe this is an altered state of consciousness. An
Speaker 1: altered state of consciousness is just a different way for
Speaker 1: your mind to be. Normally, we are aware of what's
Speaker 1: around us, and we are constantly thinking about what we're
Speaker 1: going to do next. But several times a day we
Speaker 1: all enter into different states of consciousness. For example, you've
Speaker 1: been listening to my voice for the last few minutes
Speaker 1: and paying attention, and you've probably tuned out the rest
Speaker 1: of the world. You've been a little zoned out. It's
Speaker 1: like when you're driving and suddenly you realize, oh, we're here.
Speaker 1: You don't remember actually driving the last ten miles or
Speaker 1: when you get into the zone when you're running or
Speaker 1: doing exercise, or when someone's watching TV and they look
Speaker 1: like they're in a trance. These are all different states
Speaker 1: of consciousness. Here's how doctor Zaheti explains it.
Speaker 2: At some point, you will get absorbed in your imagination
Speaker 2: so much that you get dissociated from the environments. So
Speaker 2: this concept is an altered state of consciousness. So you
Speaker 2: might also understand hypnosis and as an altered state of
Speaker 2: consciousness where instas hypnosis might the couple your cognitive control
Speaker 2: or change heat in a way, and because of that
Speaker 2: you might be able to experience hypnosis in this state.
Speaker 1: The hypnotisms would then start the third step in the process,
Speaker 1: which is to give suggestions. And there are different suggestions
Speaker 1: hypnotists can give. For example, here is one called direct
Speaker 1: murder idea.
Speaker 2: So just imagining this water, watching all your anxieties, all
Speaker 2: your stresses, and getting more and more comfortable. Now, whenever
Speaker 2: this anxiety and stress that you had previously are gone
Speaker 2: and you feel more relaxed, you can start imagining a
Speaker 2: couple of colorful balloons being tied to your fingers. Now,
Speaker 2: look at these balloons and different color that they have
Speaker 2: probably remember when we were kids, we were playing with
Speaker 2: these balloons. We were having a lot of fun. Now
Speaker 2: imagine these balloons and as you are just seeing them
Speaker 2: more and more vividly, this positive experience that you had
Speaker 2: during your childhood is going to feel your hand. And
Speaker 2: then these positive experiences are going to make your fingers
Speaker 2: and hand lighter and lighter. This might start with a
Speaker 2: tingling sensation, and then your fingers and your hand is
Speaker 2: going to feel lighter and lighter, and at any point
Speaker 2: when they are light enough that they want to start
Speaker 2: moving in the air, led them to move.
Speaker 1: What doctor say Eddy is doing here is giving me
Speaker 1: what's called a direct motor idea. In this case, he's
Speaker 1: suggesting that I imagine balloons tied to my hands, and
Speaker 1: then visualize those balloons lifting my hands. And from a
Speaker 1: lot of people who go through this, their hands will
Speaker 1: actually move and they'll feel like their hands are moving
Speaker 1: on their own. Another type of suggestion is to access
Speaker 1: lost memories.
Speaker 3: And now looking from to you see a door opening,
Speaker 3: going through the store, it takes you to a beautiful
Speaker 3: memory of your childhood. See yourself there. What do you.
Speaker 5: See at the beach?
Speaker 3: Okay, how all that?
Speaker 5: Maybe twelve ten.
Speaker 3: Okay, and what do you see in this case?
Speaker 5: I see the stars, the water and the moon.
Speaker 3: And how do you feel in this place?
Speaker 5: I feel connected to the stars.
Speaker 3: Allow your ener child to give your backsite that he's
Speaker 3: holding in that place that allows you to be more aware,
Speaker 3: focused on the present moment I connected to Nay. Allow
Speaker 3: the slide to fill you. And as the slide chains
Speaker 3: you or blockages that prevented you from enjoying the present,
Speaker 3: from being fully aware and mind chilling the present and
Speaker 3: from experiencing your connection to the stars and to mature,
Speaker 3: allow them all to evaporate. And when the slide chaines
Speaker 3: you and one to blockages, evaporate and say okay.
Speaker 1: The last kind of suggestion that a hypnotist can give
Speaker 1: you is the clinical or therapy related suggestion. This is
Speaker 1: if you want to change something about your behavior, like
Speaker 1: if you want to cure a phobia or lose weight
Speaker 1: or quit smoking. For example, here's how doctor is a heady.
Speaker 1: We describe hypnotizing someone who wants to lose weight from
Speaker 1: eating too much chocolate.
Speaker 2: So if you are very much into chocolate and then
Speaker 2: you feel hopeless when you see chocolate and you need
Speaker 2: to buy it. I can just create association for you
Speaker 2: during hypnosisself whenever you see chocolate, but now you think
Speaker 2: about the future when you didn't eat this chocolate versus
Speaker 2: the future that you ate this chocolate, and then this
Speaker 2: mental practice is going to create that association. Next time
Speaker 2: you see the chocolate, you will have this couple of
Speaker 2: milliseconds to think about these two different futures, and that
Speaker 2: is enough for you to inhibit this response.
Speaker 1: And here's how doctor Zahdi would hypnotize someone to cure
Speaker 1: their fear of spiders.
Speaker 2: So if you have a phobia of a spider, let's
Speaker 2: just say you will just imagine the spider very far
Speaker 2: away from you. It will be very much threatening in
Speaker 2: the beginning, and then a couple of sessions later, or
Speaker 2: we will just bring this spider a little bit by
Speaker 2: a little bit closer to you to the point that
Speaker 2: you can imagine just touching the spider without getting too
Speaker 2: much anxious. And then at some point actually like this
Speaker 2: is going to be enough for you to lose your phobia.
Speaker 1: And this is how doctor Jaja would hypnotize someone to
Speaker 1: help them stop smoking.
Speaker 3: With smoking, it's more complex. You have to see what
Speaker 3: was associated with the habits, like some people usually like
Speaker 3: to smoke when they're having coffee or when they're having
Speaker 3: a drink, So you focus next time you're having coffee,
Speaker 3: you will enjoy the coffee. Usually we emphasize on positive
Speaker 3: suggestions rather than negative one and instead of saying you
Speaker 3: will not have the urge to smoke, you could say
Speaker 3: you will feel like you want to have coffee alone
Speaker 3: without a cigarette, or you will feel repulse by cigret
Speaker 3: it and the person knows, for example, they shouldn't be smoking.
Speaker 3: But with hypnosis, it helps people by reinforcing not just
Speaker 3: the will power, but reinforcing a positive response. And also
Speaker 3: when you replace the habit, you should create new habits.
Speaker 3: So you could encourage people to do more sport or
Speaker 3: create positive habits instead of the habit of smoking.
Speaker 1: Okay, So the basic idea of hypnosis is to get
Speaker 1: the person deeply immerse in their own mind and to
Speaker 1: get them to use their imagination to create a reality
Speaker 1: in their head. And this reality can help them see
Speaker 1: things from a different perspective. It almost seems like you're
Speaker 1: creating a simulated reality for the subject, and it's safe
Speaker 1: because it's a simulation, but it gives you nevertheless, an
Speaker 1: experience that can change the way you think, just like
Speaker 1: any real experience can change the way you think.
Speaker 2: Exactly. We very much actually believe that it's actually like
Speaker 2: a simulation of real word, that you can't actually go
Speaker 2: through it and without consequences, that you're usually just facing
Speaker 2: real word.
Speaker 1: Okay, the next question you might have is does it
Speaker 1: all work? And where are experts able to hypnotize me?
Speaker 1: We'll get to that in our next segment, but first,
Speaker 1: here's the last step in the hypnosis process, which is
Speaker 1: to end the hypnosis session.
Speaker 3: Enjoyed this beautifulfiling of calmness, of satisfaction, allowing these feelings
Speaker 3: to manifest more and more, being great for the past,
Speaker 3: the future, and the peasant. I would come from five
Speaker 3: to one, and when I reach one, you can open
Speaker 3: your eyes. But is your subconscious mind accepting for all
Speaker 3: the suggestions, willing to allow their manifestation in your lives?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 2: For is there.
Speaker 3: Anything preventing you from being mindful, to relax and cultural
Speaker 3: adisponsive to any of the suggestions you have resist?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 5: Okay?
Speaker 3: Three? Feeling the energy coming back to your body, energizing
Speaker 3: every part of you, fooling you with your from flowing
Speaker 3: energy plea allowing your awareness to come back to this place,
Speaker 3: to the chair sitting on to the sound of repos two,
Speaker 3: getting ready to open your eyes? When you open your
Speaker 3: eyes such and puble one when you're getting you can open.
Speaker 1: Us all right, when we come back, we're going to
Speaker 1: find out if all of this really works. Stay with us.
Speaker 1: You're listening to science stuff. Welcome back? Okay? Does hypnotism work?
Speaker 1: And where are two experts able to hypnotize me? According
Speaker 1: to one study published in twenty ten, cognitive hypnotherapy is
Speaker 1: between six to eight percent better at reducing depression, anxiety,
Speaker 1: and hopelessness than more traditional cognitive behavioral therapy. In a
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen review on obesity, psychologists found that people who
Speaker 1: use hypnotherapy lost more weight than ninety four percent of
Speaker 1: people who didn't use any therapy at all. And in
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, doctors found that hypnotherapy could even reduce the
Speaker 1: effects of irritable bowel syndrome for some patients. Now did
Speaker 1: it work on me?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 1: Kind of my session with doctor Zaheti latt at about
Speaker 1: twenty minutes, and here was my reaction when he brought
Speaker 1: me back.
Speaker 2: And I will count down from ten to one, and
Speaker 2: by each number, you're going to get more and more attentive,
Speaker 2: and you will remember the fists and the experience that
Speaker 2: you had with each of these numbers number ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four.
Speaker 2: Then reach number three, you can open your eyes and
Speaker 2: as soon as I say number one, you will come
Speaker 2: back to here and now completely four, three, two and one.
Speaker 1: Okay, whoa, how are you? That was interesting? Well, it's
Speaker 1: a little bit because we are recording, and I think
Speaker 1: I was still aware of that. Yeah, isn't sure, but
Speaker 1: it really hit me. Like I think I was a
Speaker 1: little bit aware the whole time, but when you started
Speaker 1: the countdown and you said open your eyes, and I
Speaker 1: opened my eyes, I was like, whoa, I was somewhere else, yes, exactly.
Speaker 1: And then the part where you had me thinking about
Speaker 1: childhood and the balloons and the joy I felt. I
Speaker 1: almost teared up. Yeh, yeah, like I had a very emotional,
Speaker 1: I kind of deepen my chest feeling of joy.
Speaker 2: That's a very common thing. That's one of the reasons
Speaker 2: that you go actually could do to those experiences because
Speaker 2: they're so intense that you can easily just re experience
Speaker 2: them and they're very actually effective in helping you just
Speaker 2: feeling things.
Speaker 1: And then here is my reaction to the longer forty
Speaker 1: minute hypnotism session with doctor Jajah.
Speaker 5: Wow, I was very emotional. I was feeling a lot
Speaker 5: of emotion.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Some people see more images some people and feel more.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: I think I have an active imagination. So I was
Speaker 1: definitely seeing and hearing and smelling even but at the core,
Speaker 1: I could feel myself fairly emotional, like I could feel
Speaker 1: my chest opening up. I think part of my brain
Speaker 1: was still thinking about the fact that we're recording this,
Speaker 1: but that part of my brain felt like I wasn't
Speaker 1: in control of my body. I don't even notice my
Speaker 1: jaw was open, and I could tell my jaw was open,
Speaker 1: but I couldn't close it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you have the sense of involuntariness.
Speaker 5: A little bit. Yeah, so you.
Speaker 3: Are in control, but your sense of volonteariness is reduced
Speaker 3: and your sense of agency. You see things happen a
Speaker 3: bit by them self.
Speaker 1: Yes, I felt it starting to happen. Yeah, so yeah,
Speaker 1: I definitely felt things. I think part of my brain
Speaker 1: was always aware of what was happening because we were
Speaker 1: recording the session, but part of my brain really did
Speaker 1: go somewhere else. I felt that association, and at some
Speaker 1: point I did feel that loss of agency or feeling
Speaker 1: like I was not in control of my movements. It
Speaker 1: was quite an interesting mental experience. Okay, The last question
Speaker 1: I asked our experts was what makes someone more or
Speaker 1: less susceptible to being hypnotized, and they both agree that
Speaker 1: there are two skills some people have that make them
Speaker 1: better or worse at being hypnotized. Here's how doctor Zaheti
Speaker 1: puts it.
Speaker 2: This is a study that we have conducted recently that
Speaker 2: showed to require different cognitive abilities to respond to different
Speaker 2: forms of suggestions. These different cognitive abilities are imagination.
Speaker 1: Meaning some people are better than others at just imagining
Speaker 1: fake scenarios.
Speaker 2: Some people are better than others exactly. The second one
Speaker 2: is these dissociative abilities dissociative tendencies.
Speaker 1: Meaning my ability to just tune out of reality exactly.
Speaker 1: So if we have an active imagination and you're good
Speaker 1: at zoning or tuning out, then getting kept time is
Speaker 1: going to be easier for you. But our experts agree
Speaker 1: the most important factor in determining whether hypnosis works for
Speaker 1: you is your expectation and how much you want it
Speaker 1: to work on you. If you're very skeptical about it,
Speaker 1: or if you don't trust a person trying to hypnotize you,
Speaker 1: or if you don't really want it to work, then
Speaker 1: it's not going to work for you. So is hypnotism real?
Speaker 1: It is, but it's a reality you make up yourself.
Speaker 1: Does that mean it's all a hoax or that you're
Speaker 1: fooling yourself? That's one way to look at it. The
Speaker 1: other way to look at it is that hypnosis uses
Speaker 1: the power of your mind to help you change your
Speaker 1: own mind. In other words, it's all about you and
Speaker 1: giving yourself a mesmerizing experience. Thanks for joining us, See
Speaker 1: you next time you've been listening to Science Stuff. Production
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio written and produced by me or Hitcham, hedited
Speaker 1: by Rose Seguda, executive producer Jerry Rowland, an audio engineer
Speaker 1: and mixer Ksey Peckram, and you can follow me on
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